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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Steve Schnur. Steve, what exactly is

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Speaker 1: your title of electronic arts? I think the last time

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Speaker 1: we spoke you were laughing, commenting, joking with me about

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Speaker 1: how long it was at the time. So I'm frankly

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Speaker 1: partially because of that conversation years ago. It's some sat

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Speaker 1: Bislas event. I shortened it to president of music. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of word their global Jedi sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: but president of music and what do you do as

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Speaker 1: president of music? Uh? Well, I I say that every

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Speaker 1: I'm responsible ultimately for every single note that goes in

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Speaker 1: every single game, every single trailer, every artist that shows

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Speaker 1: up at every single event. Anybody who's you knowsociated with music,

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Speaker 1: whether it's Snoop showing up at the launch of a

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Speaker 1: battlefield event or whether it's them you know, a hundred

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Speaker 1: songs that go in a FIFA. UM, I'm responsible ultimately

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Speaker 1: for for all of it. I UM. I think over

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Speaker 1: the years, UM, we used to sort of look at,

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Speaker 1: you know, how do we how do we represent culture?

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Speaker 1: And I think what we've tried to do now is actually,

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Speaker 1: um become culture. You know, to the point where these

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Speaker 1: playlists and these um pieces of music we put in

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Speaker 1: all of these franchises are so meaningful to people now. Um,

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Speaker 1: going back the last ten twenty years, so long winded

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Speaker 1: way to say, I guess I'm in charge of all

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Speaker 1: of that. And why do you live in Nashville. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad we have some time here. Listen. I lived in

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Speaker 1: Nashville in the nineties, all of my friends. In nine

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Speaker 1: five when I worked for Clive uh when I told

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Speaker 1: him I was thinking about coming down here and running

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Speaker 1: a record label for Tim Dubon Mike Dungan, which was

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Speaker 1: a blessing. But who knew at the time. Um, they

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Speaker 1: said I was crazy. Um they don't let Jews in Nashville.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're gonna be you know, ha ha

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Speaker 1: ha Uh. It was the most amazing time of my

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Speaker 1: life working for those guys back then. Uh. So when

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Speaker 1: I moved to l A, initially to work at Capital,

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Speaker 1: but then for years to work um eddie A. You know,

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Speaker 1: I always figured how do I get back? Um, it

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Speaker 1: just seems like a more normal place to me. It's

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Speaker 1: also closer for me to get home to New York.

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Speaker 1: I like that. I like that I'm centrally located. The

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Speaker 1: answer to your question is that, UM, I tried knowing

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Speaker 1: that games. Uh. We were always told way back when

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Speaker 1: that we were bigger than the film industry and the

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Speaker 1: music industry combined. But when I started, we still sounded

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Speaker 1: like the toy industry. And even though there's nostalgia in

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Speaker 1: the Mario Brothers and pac Man, UM, I needed to

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Speaker 1: find a solution so we could record live with real orchestras.

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Speaker 1: If I'm gonna hire Hans Zimmer and I'm gonna hire

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Speaker 1: a hilder off of an Oscar Win, you know I

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Speaker 1: have provided them with some great orchestrash. We had a fallout,

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Speaker 1: you know, we had a fallout, not just e A,

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Speaker 1: the entire non signatory industry had a fallout with the

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Speaker 1: A f M UM. We were able to record for

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Speaker 1: years in UM in Los Angeles and a non signatory

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Speaker 1: single performance Agreement UM. And when the new guys came

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Speaker 1: in to run it, I warned them kindly that they

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Speaker 1: were gonna lose not just the entire game industry, but

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Speaker 1: they were gonna learn lose the independent film industry. They

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Speaker 1: were gonna lose you know what what you know inevitably

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Speaker 1: came the TV business, you know, Netflix, Amazon, none of

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Speaker 1: these modern media companies, We're going to become union signatories.

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Speaker 1: And they were gonna lose all of this business to

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Speaker 1: Eastern Europe. That's where everybody was gonna go to prag Bratoslava,

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Speaker 1: you know, etcetera. Um, And so it happened. And I

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Speaker 1: was the one knowing this town pretty well from living

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Speaker 1: here in the nineties that said, let's go see if

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Speaker 1: we can cut a trailer in Nashville. I know the

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Speaker 1: steel players, I know the drummers, I know the guitar players.

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Speaker 1: Not sure if I know the cellist, but let's try it.

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Speaker 1: But guess what, um, mind blowing, mind blowing horn sections

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Speaker 1: as you can only imagine, think of all the great

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Speaker 1: horn horne arranged, horn arrangements. They came out of here

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Speaker 1: for years and years and years, and I ended up

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Speaker 1: recording a score to a game called Dragon Age Inquisition here.

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Speaker 1: I had a very loud mouth among the composer community

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, from Hans to John Debney, you name,

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Speaker 1: and it it goes on and on and on and next

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Speaker 1: thing you know, people were coming year to record and

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Speaker 1: their minds were blown. So I think Nashville has become

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Speaker 1: easily the top one of the top two greatest places

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Speaker 1: to record orchestra for film television in games, London being

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Speaker 1: the other. Uh. And I think the stages sadly in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles have emptied the musicians, so many of them

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Speaker 1: are out of work, a lot of them are moving here,

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Speaker 1: and so rather than commute back and forth, I figured

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Speaker 1: it would make sense for me to plant my butt

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Speaker 1: here in Nashville and to help further and build the

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Speaker 1: community um of you know, great orchestral recording for media. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: I've spoken to the guy who's the chairman of the

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Speaker 1: tourism board and told him, the next time you're you

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Speaker 1: have that tour bus driving down Music Row and you

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Speaker 1: tell the blue haired ladies that this is the studio

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Speaker 1: where Johnny Cash and Elvis recorded. Two blocks down is

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Speaker 1: the studio where Call of Duty and Fortnite was recorded.

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Speaker 1: Every kid's going to freak out and want to go

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Speaker 1: with our moms and those tours. Now, so we've built

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Speaker 1: one hell of a community down here, um. And that's

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Speaker 1: why I live here now. And you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: commute to l A, but it's no big deal. And Frankly,

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Speaker 1: half the time, my flight is shorter than half the

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Speaker 1: people that work for me and have to drive from

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Speaker 1: Eagle Rock to Marina del Rey. Okay, just going sideways

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Speaker 1: for a second. Your father was recently ill. If you're

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Speaker 1: from the East Coast, how's your father being treated in Irvine? Well,

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Speaker 1: my dad saw the light of California twenty years ago

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Speaker 1: and moved to uh Orange County. Um, proclaiming he had

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Speaker 1: wished we had he had moved us out there, uh

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Speaker 1: when when we were kids. But I'm a Jersey slash

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Speaker 1: New York City divorce bratt and you know this, Bob,

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Speaker 1: you can't take that out of us. We are who

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Speaker 1: we are. We just bring New York with us to California. UM. So,

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Speaker 1: my dad's been living out there for twenty years. I

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Speaker 1: do think it's the greatest thing he could have done

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Speaker 1: for himself. Um. Who wants to be, you know, in

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Speaker 1: their nineties, little one, even in their seventies and shoveling snow.

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Speaker 1: I think you've written about this quite a lot. You know,

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Speaker 1: he was a Vermont drive to Vermont, go skiing, come

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Speaker 1: back to Jersey, go to work, and finally twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: he's like I'm done. He didn't do the Florida route.

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Speaker 1: He did the California route. Okay, I gotta go here

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Speaker 1: because I tell this story all the time. Do you

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Speaker 1: still have your condo in Mammoth? No? I mean this

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Speaker 1: is fin finance mistake one oh one. When the recession hit, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the thing went severely underwater, and I did a panic

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Speaker 1: and I sold it and I called the financial guy

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Speaker 1: at Mary Lynch and I said, I'm about to, you know,

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Speaker 1: do one of those the bank wants you? Am? I

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Speaker 1: actually gonna sell it for way under the mortgage? And

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Speaker 1: what does that do to my credit? And they said,

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Speaker 1: just get out, get out, get out. It'll take you

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Speaker 1: fifteen twenty years to get back to where you bought it.

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Speaker 1: So I sold it now. I got divorced, so I

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Speaker 1: would have lost it anyway, So what the hell? Okay,

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Speaker 1: but the story that I tell is you were renting

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Speaker 1: it out and what ultimately happened with the Golden Platinum Records.

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Speaker 1: Why don't you tell us? You remember this? It's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: So I had this idea, you know that if I

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Speaker 1: rented it out, you know, how am I going to

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Speaker 1: compete in that Mammoth marketplace. First of all, you're hiring

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Speaker 1: a property manager at a fifty fifty split, which is

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Speaker 1: absolutely the stupidest thing imaginable, but that's the way it's done.

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Speaker 1: So I remember taking all of these golden platinum records,

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Speaker 1: putting them up on the wall. We had a view

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Speaker 1: from the living room of Mammoth Rocks. So I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: well let's call it, you know, Mammoth whatever it was,

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Speaker 1: Mammoth Rock dot com or whatever. I thought I was

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Speaker 1: so smart to get at the time, but I really

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Speaker 1: was a little you know, being an East Coaster, I

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Speaker 1: was cynical about it from day one. So I figured,

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Speaker 1: how do I get these platinum records on the wall

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Speaker 1: without somebody just lifting them off? So I had them

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Speaker 1: mounted to the wall like they used to do with

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Speaker 1: the hard rock in Las Vegas. You know, they're mounted

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Speaker 1: from behind. It would take a superman to rip it

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Speaker 1: off the wall. Only to come up there one time

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Speaker 1: and found out there were holes in the wall. Somebody

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Speaker 1: had rented my place, shown up with a crowbar and

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Speaker 1: just basically ripped them out. And so when I went

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Speaker 1: to the property manager, remember fifty fifty split, you think

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Speaker 1: they do more? Um, I told them, and they said, well,

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Speaker 1: we've had three people in there, so we don't know

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Speaker 1: who to go to. So sorry. So yeah, that was

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Speaker 1: my uh hard earned lesson in not really renting things

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Speaker 1: out on a weekly basis and having high expectations when

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Speaker 1: it comes to maintaining. UM, you know it was. It

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Speaker 1: was a high quality place. But it is what it is.

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Speaker 1: I lost a blink quantity to um Platinum Record and

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Speaker 1: a couple others, but you know what it is, what

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Speaker 1: it is. I kind of don't listen to blink anyway anymore. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: how many did you lose all in total? It had

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Speaker 1: to be five or six that they were. There were

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Speaker 1: five or six holes in the wall, good gigantic you know,

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Speaker 1: six inch circumference holes in the wall. This person literally

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Speaker 1: went out of their way to getting it. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why I looked on eBay. Uh they never showed up.

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Speaker 1: So okay, let's go back something you said earlier. Explain

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Speaker 1: the A f M union situation. Well, listen, I'm a

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Speaker 1: union person, ironically, and I believe there's a purpose, particularly

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Speaker 1: for the pension paying into the pension when you use

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Speaker 1: union musicians. Um, but I do believe, uh, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not running for office here to run the union. But

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Speaker 1: I do believe that the union works through the musicians

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Speaker 1: and not the other way around. And if you go

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Speaker 1: back to the history of the particularly the a f

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Speaker 1: M to the forties, I think the guy who ran

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Speaker 1: back then was a guy named Fiarello. I could be

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Speaker 1: his name, and Um, you know, we could look back

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Speaker 1: and think of him as a tough s ob who

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Speaker 1: got shipped done. But the truth is he was abusive

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Speaker 1: and he was um. He got in the way of progress.

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Speaker 1: He was so upset as far as I know, and

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Speaker 1: I've learned with musicians being replied, musicians being replaced on

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Speaker 1: radio by recorded music, that he went out of his

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Speaker 1: way to shut it down. He did not accept technology

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Speaker 1: and or technology has brought us as a music industry

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Speaker 1: for the last hundred years. We have to ride the

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Speaker 1: technology wave, not try to shut it down. Otherwise, I e. Napster,

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Speaker 1: We're just wasting years where we could be a part

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Speaker 1: of it. UM. And I think, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: the current union UM is in the same situation. Um.

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Speaker 1: You can come to Nashville and do union recordings. The

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Speaker 1: only difference is that Nashville is a right to work state.

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Speaker 1: So the union members can't be sued for making their

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Speaker 1: own decision on whether they want to work on a

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Speaker 1: project or not. By the way, when I put out

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Speaker 1: the call two musicians, the greatest musicians in town, no

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Speaker 1: one's ever said no. But they have a choice. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: I hope you know union members musicians understand that. UM,

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Speaker 1: many of us, most of us who work for you know,

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Speaker 1: companies that aren't signatories to the union. And that's most companies. Now. Remember,

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Speaker 1: the people that are really still signatories are the ones

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Speaker 1: that signed it back in the Charlie Chaplain era, Warner Brothers, Disney,

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Speaker 1: Paramount and this goes back lord knows how long. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of Netflix, the majority of their projects are

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Speaker 1: non union projects. So why not try to get the

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Speaker 1: business here in the US rather than lose the business

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Speaker 1: to Eastern Europe? Why not try to figure out ways

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Speaker 1: to work with companies? UM, And I think Nashville has

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Speaker 1: become an incredible solution. I mean, you know, Spike Lee

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Speaker 1: does you know records uh music for his movies here

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Speaker 1: with you know, and and and the list goes on

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Speaker 1: and on. I mean Lost in Space on Netflix was

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Speaker 1: all all that score was recorded here, And like I said,

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Speaker 1: so many games, Um, not my games, even some of

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Speaker 1: them call a Duty and Fortnite and others. So it's

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Speaker 1: become a high quality solution. And there's not a day,

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Speaker 1: Bob that I don't go out to lunch or dinner

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Speaker 1: here when somebody who plays cello or a tuba or

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Speaker 1: whatever the case may be comes up to me because

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Speaker 1: it's Nashville, still a small town and says thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you for letting us work six days a week,

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Speaker 1: you know, And UM, I'm not doing it for that.

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Speaker 1: I make no money from that. I don't know in

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Speaker 1: the studios, I have no personal financial incentive. I just

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Speaker 1: know that we, you know, in the modern media business

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Speaker 1: needs solutions to have high quality recordings with the best

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Speaker 1: musicians of the world and not be driven out and

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Speaker 1: forced to go to places like Prague and and uh

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Speaker 1: you know other places in Eastern Europe where there's problems.

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Speaker 1: You have to edit the hell out of those. Um recordings. Um,

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Speaker 1: the musicianship is good, but it's not mind blowing at times.

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Speaker 1: Most of the time. UM, I'll tell you a funny story.

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Speaker 1: My friend John Julihan, I don't know if you know him. Um,

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Speaker 1: he was here doing the film that they did about

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Speaker 1: a year or two ago on Tammy Faye Baker. Um,

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Speaker 1: and uh, he asked me to help put together a

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Speaker 1: horn section because guess what it was, um, a non

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Speaker 1: union film, you know. Um and uh I got to

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Speaker 1: I put together a horn section for him. And he

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Speaker 1: came down and Dave Cobb, who I think you know, um,

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Speaker 1: was recording it producing it. And John looked at me

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Speaker 1: and said, oh my god, I can't believe these horns.

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Speaker 1: I'm they're playing this, these these parts just like that's

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Speaker 1: just like the original records. And then one of the

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Speaker 1: trumpet players said, and that's because we were the guys

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Speaker 1: that actually played on that record. So listen, you've got

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Speaker 1: a swinging brass section here that's incredible. You have string

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Speaker 1: sections that are as good as London, which is a tall,

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Speaker 1: tall order. And uh. The only thing we're short of

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Speaker 1: here in town is a magnificent stage the size of

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Speaker 1: Abbey Road one. We can put about seventy five on

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Speaker 1: the floor at Ocean Way, you know. So for me

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Speaker 1: where I do Star Wars and I need a hundred

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Speaker 1: plus people on the stage, I go to London for

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Speaker 1: those things. But we've come up with a solution for

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Speaker 1: three industries. And you know I said from day one,

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Speaker 1: I always wanted to pay into the pension, you know,

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Speaker 1: for the union. I believe in it as long as

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Speaker 1: they handled the pension correctly. Um. But um, my home,

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Speaker 1: my thing is that I just don't want them hurting

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Speaker 1: the musicians. I don't want them suing the musicians. And

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Speaker 1: this is a place where musicians work. They work six

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Speaker 1: seven days a week doing what they do. They don't

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Speaker 1: have to work at Jerry's Deli or any place like

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Speaker 1: that to make it. You know, they have a lot

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Speaker 1: of work here now in film and TV and games. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's just assume, for the sake of discussion, you were

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Speaker 1: a signatory and you did cut in l A. What

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Speaker 1: would be the difference to you. Yeah, that's a great question. Um, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what it's not. It's not a matter

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Speaker 1: of cost, because people think this is a cost solution,

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Speaker 1: which it's not. You know, listen, there's a set rate here,

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Speaker 1: set right there. Um. If I were a signatory and

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Speaker 1: I cut there, Um, I would have some of the

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Speaker 1: greatest stages in the planet, the barber strikes and stage

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Speaker 1: you know this, and that I would have some of

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Speaker 1: the greatest musicians in the planet. Um and the different

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Speaker 1: says now sadly, thanks to the Union, I would have

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Speaker 1: a lot of dates at these stages to choose from

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Speaker 1: because they're empty a lot of days of the month.

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Speaker 1: Abbey Road is sold out two years already now in advance.

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Speaker 1: You can't even get in there until uh Nashville's about

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Speaker 1: six months eight months. Um, So why is that happening?

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Speaker 1: Why are there empty stages there when it's not a

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Speaker 1: matter of cost, you know? Um? So, we did amazing

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Speaker 1: scores in Los Angeles. Michael Jaquino did our Medal of

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Speaker 1: Honor scores back way back when we did lots of

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Speaker 1: SIMS scores back then with Mark mothers Bow and Steve Jablonsky.

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Speaker 1: I'm really proud of those scores. The quality is incredible.

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Speaker 1: But unfortunately we're driven out. When I say we, I

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Speaker 1: mean an industry was driven out. So you gotta you

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Speaker 1: gotta come. If it's not the cost, what is the

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Speaker 1: burden of the union production? I see what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: You're asking me. Why are you asking me why modern

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Speaker 1: media companies are in signatories to the union. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: go there, I think, yeah, um, and I usually don't

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Speaker 1: go there, but I know you, so I'm gonna go here. Um, listen,

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Speaker 1: there's back end, and you know there's back end for musicians,

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Speaker 1: and most companies Amazon, Netflix, Activision, the list goes on.

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Speaker 1: You know. UM, they're different, they're set up differently than

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Speaker 1: the old traditional major movie studios. UM, there's no back end.

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Speaker 1: But there's also not back end, by the way, for

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Speaker 1: the executive producer or the director or the other people

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Speaker 1: that have worked on a UM project like a game

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Speaker 1: for three years. And so it's pretty hard to justify

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Speaker 1: not giving an executive producer who's worked on a game

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Speaker 1: for three years and then giving back end to a

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Speaker 1: violinist who worked on a game for three hours. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of an equation that doesn't work out very well.

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Speaker 1: So that's it. It comes down to back end. And

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Speaker 1: that's why most companies now, like I said, Netflix and

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Speaker 1: others are not signators. So how did you get your

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Speaker 1: gig dy a And what was the status of the

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Speaker 1: music department? Then there wasn't a music department. There wasn't

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Speaker 1: a music department in any game company. I was working

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Speaker 1: at Capitol Records. UM. I had left at Nashville to

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Speaker 1: move to capital be one of the guys that ran

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Speaker 1: and r um roy Lot left. As you'll recall, Andy

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Speaker 1: Slater came in. Um. It was a miserable environment, to

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Speaker 1: be honest with you. Um and Uh. Fortunately, at the

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Speaker 1: same time as I was a capital UM, I was

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Speaker 1: also music supervising films, particularly Sandra Bullock films. I had

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Speaker 1: done the music supervision for a smaller film called Gunshot,

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Speaker 1: but then a much bigger film called Miss Congeniality. I

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Speaker 1: also was able to write cues on that, which I

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Speaker 1: always joke when I get might BM, I check every

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Speaker 1: single year. Uh we can go to Nobu once, but

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Speaker 1: that's about what it can afford. Um and uh there's

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Speaker 1: your back end story by the way. Um. But um

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Speaker 1: and then I so I had I didn't realize that

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Speaker 1: I had this experience, for lack of better term, in

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Speaker 1: music and music supervision. I sort of took it for granted.

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Speaker 1: I got a call from Terry McBride because I had

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Speaker 1: worked with Sarah McLaughlin in the nineties when she I

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Speaker 1: think we struggled to put fifty people at Cafe Shane

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Speaker 1: I think it was called in New York. It was

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Speaker 1: Marty Diamond. Uh. Terry McBride and I. We're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out what is it gonna take to have her

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Speaker 1: play Radio City Music Hall in a year? How do

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Speaker 1: we get from fifty to whatever that number is. So

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Speaker 1: I had a history there. Terry was, um, you know

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Speaker 1: lives up to the you know, don't ever burn bridges

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Speaker 1: because my bridge was so solid between network and myself

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Speaker 1: and we all loved each other so much and then

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Speaker 1: gone through thick and thin together that he happened to

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Speaker 1: be friends with the then president of e A. It's

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Speaker 1: a Vancouver thing and um, Terry called me and said,

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Speaker 1: you're going to get a call from a guy named

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Speaker 1: Rusty Roof. I'm like, come on, who makes that name

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Speaker 1: up as the radio guy? And he goes, yeah, he

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Speaker 1: actually used to be a radio guy. Um, but he's

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Speaker 1: the head of hr at e A. Uh. And I

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Speaker 1: was telling them that they should start a music department

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Speaker 1: like a film studio. I was so in love with

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Speaker 1: music supervision, especially for Fordace Film which was Forda Films,

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Speaker 1: which was Sandy Bullock's company, that my dreams had changed.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be the head of a studio, paramount universal,

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Speaker 1: head of music in a studio. Um, so my initial

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Speaker 1: commented Terry was games. Anybody your mind? Like I pretended

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Speaker 1: to play a few of those. You know when I

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Speaker 1: was trying to sign a band back in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: What do I, he said, take the meeting. I don't

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Speaker 1: even think twice. Just take the meeting. So I flew

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Speaker 1: up to Vancouver and um met with Don and Rusty

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Speaker 1: roof Um, who were spectacular guys. But here was the difference.

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Speaker 1: And I think I told you the story years ago.

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Speaker 1: I was working in the record business in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one. Napster was right there. It was in the headlight,

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Speaker 1: and it felt you felt fear and of the unknown

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Speaker 1: in the record business, even though people stay oh and

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Speaker 1: sync it was selling Millie who cares? We saw fear

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Speaker 1: right there in front of us. UM and I walked

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Speaker 1: into those buildings A d A and it was like

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Speaker 1: I was back in MTV in the eighties. There were

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Speaker 1: kids everywhere. It was loud, people were playing games, there

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Speaker 1: was creativity. And I remember calling my now ex wife

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Speaker 1: at the time and saying, if they offered me this job,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking it. And she said, whoa wa wa, wait

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Speaker 1: a send, what are you talking about? I said, I

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Speaker 1: haven't felt this energy in so many years. Okay, the

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Speaker 1: record business had it for a moment, but it's not

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Speaker 1: there right now. And she said, are you gonna take

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Speaker 1: a job based on energy and a building? And I said,

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00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: actually think so. Something's going on here. So I met

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Speaker 1: with Don President and he said what I said to him?

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Speaker 1: What's your vision? And he said, the greatest thing you

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Speaker 1: could ever hear to an entrepreneurial guy like myself. He says,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. He said, we toyed with Robbie Williams

401
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Speaker 1: in a FIFA game, we toyed with bar naked ladies

402
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Speaker 1: in an NHL game. We got some press. We think

403
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Speaker 1: there's something there. What do you think? And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: I think you guys are spending too much time trying

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Speaker 1: to sound like sports, and I think eventually sports need

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Speaker 1: to start sounding like us. I think we need to

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Speaker 1: be what I'll call the new MTV. At the time,

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Speaker 1: people labels are spending millions upon gazillions to to pay

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Speaker 1: for promotion, to get to to get records on the radio.

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Speaker 1: Remember this is before Spotify, before this UM. But the

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Speaker 1: audience is gaming. People that are twelve and seven and

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Speaker 1: in seventeen, they're in games. We have the real estate,

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Speaker 1: so let's bring music to where they are. Let's change

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Speaker 1: the sound of sports. Let's change the sound of games.

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Speaker 1: So if we have a game called Madden two thousand

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Speaker 1: and four, let's make it sound like two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: Why are we still playing a C D C and Queen?

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Speaker 1: Where are the champions? And why God's name would you

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Speaker 1: ever license Gary Glitter? Haven't you've heard that story yet?

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Speaker 1: So they so they said okay, And um, I said, also,

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Speaker 1: you still send sound like the toy business. So I'd

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Speaker 1: like to go out there and hire. At the time,

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Speaker 1: the first guy hired was a guy named Michael Jaquino. Um,

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Speaker 1: this is pre Pixar, pre Lost on ABC. Let's hire

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Speaker 1: some of the next greatest generation of composers because we

426
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: have such an advantage in this medium we have. If

427
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: you if you're if you're writing a score to a film,

428
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: you know there's Tom Cruise and oh yeah, he's doing that,

429
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: and he's running and he's doing Okay, let's find the

430
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: emotion and present what Tom is feeling. But in a game,

431
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: you've got millions of people on their couches and you

432
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: need to create the emotion that each and every one

433
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 1: of them is feeling. And I bet you once I

434
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: present that to the next great generation of composers, when

435
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: I untether them to picture, when they become a part

436
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: of the story itself, they're going to freak out. And UM.

437
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: So that's how it started. So it was really an

438
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial beginning because I started just me and UH. Within

439
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: a year, I had two people working for me. UM.

440
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: I believe we're still all together, by the way, even

441
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: though we're many more people now. UM, and I'm I'm humble,

442
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: but I'm also smart enough to know that if you

443
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: surround yourself with people that are better than you and

444
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: have impeccable taste in music and wonderful ideas, that you know,

445
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: the tide rises all boats. As the cliche you know says,

446
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: So UM, we just started instead of putting a C.

447
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: D C and queen into football games and soccer games.

448
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: You know, I went all around the world for my

449
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: first year, and I went to every I went top down,

450
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: every CEO, every president of every label, and every publishing company,

451
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: every artist I can get in a room with. UM.

452
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: I met with Steve Berman and Jimmy back then. They

453
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: got it from the first second I presented it to them.

454
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: Jason Flam got it from the first second I presented

455
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: it to them. Craig Calman got it from the first second. Julie,

456
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: you know then at def Jam got it from the

457
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: first second. A few didn't. Um and we started putting

458
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: bands in these games, and next thing, you know, bands

459
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,719
Speaker 1: like a Sabian and Kings a Leon. None of these

460
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: bands had sinks, nobody knew who they were, and all

461
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: of a sudden they started kind of gaining attention. To listen.

462
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: Fast forward even ten years whatever the number is. Later,

463
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: um uh thirty seconds to Mars. I I put Jared

464
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 1: Leto's band in UM Madden I think it was at

465
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: the time, and um Kevin Weatherly called me and he said,

466
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: did you guys put a band called thirty seconds to

467
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: ours in UM Madden or something? And I said we did.

468
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: I said why? He said, because it's testing like familiar

469
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 1: and we haven't played it yet. So I knew we

470
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: were on to something and I wasn't looking to be

471
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: the hero I wanted. I knew that we could be

472
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: ground zero to launch bands, that that's very MTV esque.

473
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: We could be ground zero and we could affect. But

474
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: I knew. The winning point of doing all of that

475
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: was when somebody here's a band. Now, when people here

476
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: Kasabian or they hear whatever the list is. We can

477
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: go through hundreds of bands. They remember FIFA nostalgically from

478
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: two thousand seven or two thousand three. That's where the winning,

479
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: That's where the win was. You know, to be forever

480
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: associated with that moment. You and I have those moments

481
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: when it comes to MTV. You know, you think of

482
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: a cure, you think a flock of seagulls. Oh, those

483
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: are MTV moments. I thought we could, we could create

484
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 1: FIFA moments or maddened moments, and that has proven to

485
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: be true. So um, the people that got it a

486
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: hundred percent were the artists. Every artist from day one.

487
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 1: I remember sitting going, remember this is two thousand and two,

488
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: Snoop Bust, Jermaine Duprie, all these people that you think

489
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: about what it was twenty years ago. We gotta get in.

490
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: What do we need to do to get in? Madden?

491
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: You know, they had a front row seat to their

492
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: fans every night. They knew that their fans played games.

493
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: They knew that they and their bands played games. So

494
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: that was very important real estate to all artists back

495
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: then still is by the way, So that's kind of

496
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: where it all started. It was an idea, it was

497
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: an entrepreneurial idea, it was a vision. Um and um.

498
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: You know, I don't believe in repeating. I'm I'm absolutely

499
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: against anything that's cut and pace who Every year we

500
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: just have to rip it up and reinvent, do better,

501
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: do bigger, do more, um and UM. I think now

502
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: I look, you know, in the last year, and I'm

503
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: very proud when I see Travis Scott doing a show

504
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: in Fortnite, you know, pre the Houston thing. But you know,

505
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of when I see these huge moments,

506
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, or Spotify having Spotify Island on the roadblocks.

507
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: These are all amazing things. Um. But it's all because

508
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: of the years, you know, uh, the evolution of it all,

509
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: you know, having Kings of Leon and started Madden too,

510
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: sorry FIFA two thousand and two or three, whatever the

511
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: year was. Um. Then came guitar hero, then came rock

512
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: band and if you look at it that way, you

513
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: can see where how the evolution you know, occurred of

514
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: it all. And now everybody's paying attention. But we kind

515
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: of knew it all along. Okay, you say you were

516
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: going to Vancouver. I think, uh, Electronic Guards started in

517
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: northern California. Where is the company now? Yeah, well it's

518
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: a good story. Um. So they had the president of Studios,

519
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: Don Mattrick, who I mentioned before, lived and was based

520
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: out of Vancouver because the e A had bought his company.

521
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: I think it was called Dynamic Software something like five

522
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: or ten years before I met him. So the head

523
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: of studios was based at A Vancouver, but e A

524
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: has always been based in northern California. So I I

525
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: sold my house in l A, moved to Vancouver, moved

526
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: in December. I do not recommend moving to Vancouver in

527
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: December because for three or four months, uh, you don't

528
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: see the sun. It's freezing. And don't get me wrong,

529
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: I love Vancouver and I'm friends with lots of people

530
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: that live there, but they all say, oh, but you

531
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: should see this place in July. I don't want to

532
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: be in a place eleven months a year for one

533
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: month's sick. Um. But um, you know it was Larry

534
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: Probes who was the CEO of e A then who

535
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: um he was my Grammy date that year in two

536
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: thousand and two. Uh, And he said, who the hell

537
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: hired our head of music? It can put them in Vancouver.

538
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: And I didn't want to throw our then president under

539
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: the bus, so I started a him and haunt. He said,

540
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: I get it, I get it done. Hired you Uh uh,

541
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: We're in northern Cali. You should where should you be based?

542
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: And I had that one moment where I could have

543
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: said anywhere by the way, I could have said Aspen.

544
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: I know that would have made you happy. Um. And

545
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: I said, I don't know whether I want to say

546
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: this out loud, but you probably should have never moved

547
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: me out of l A. You know. So he says,

548
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: moved back to l A. And I said, oh, I

549
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: wish you would have told me that before I sold

550
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: my house. You know, I'm all in um. Anyway, that

551
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: was a crazy year, but I ended up spending only

552
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: three four months in Vancouver and then moving to l

553
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: A until I moved here to Nashville. And I still

554
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 1: somewhat commute. Up until the pandemic, I was doing every

555
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: single week back and forth Nashville l A UM and

556
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: the pandemic gave me the opportunity to slow that down

557
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: a little. Bit, but uh so we still have massive studios,

558
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: really beautiful, impressive studios in Vancouver, where UFC has created,

559
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: where FIFA is created. I mean, it's it's unbelievable, but

560
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: we are in northern California based company. Well, it used

561
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: to be the only direct flight from Nashville was an

562
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: American and then Southwest went in. So which one do

563
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: you fly? Well? I fly Southwest because they have the nonstops.

564
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: American only has one poorly timed NonStop unless you want

565
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: to go on a red eye, which I do not.

566
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: So um. I literally just got off the Southwest flight

567
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 1: from l a X this morning seven am. Um, so

568
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: I do that. And uh. Up until the pandemic, the

569
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: advantage of flying Southwest was that a list companion pass,

570
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: which was brilliant. But the pandemic obviously none of us

571
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: traveled so much. So that's gone now. So ironically that

572
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: you it's ironic. You asked me that because as we

573
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: flew in today and I was squished, you know, like

574
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: a like a you know, like a sandwich, like a

575
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: Deli sandwich in between people on Southwest. I said, you

576
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: know what, once I don't get my status again at

577
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: the end of this year, even if I have to

578
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: change planes in Dallas, I'm going on American from now.

579
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: It was really good for a while. I don't know

580
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: why you think everybody would have multiple flights here nonstops

581
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: all day long, because I don't know the last time

582
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: you were in Nashville. But this is Las Vegas, for

583
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: God's sake. It's out of control, you know, even though

584
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: most of us that live here don't ever go down there.

585
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: But why wouldn't you have five nonstops today? I don't

586
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: get it. Okay, So what was the status of the

587
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: gaming business then when you took the gig in twenty

588
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: two two? Has opposed it today? And where does e

589
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: A fit in the hierarchy of gaming companies? Yeah, that's

590
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: a great question. I think back in two thousand and two,

591
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: gaming was massive, but gaming was thought of pretty much

592
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: as a chldren's activity by those of us in mainstream media.

593
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: I don't think we knew then the impact that gaming

594
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: had or could have, or would have had or has had.

595
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: I think we were making great games, sticky games. There

596
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: were people that were obsessed with it, but they looked

597
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: particularly comparative to what you see now. They looked like

598
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: you know animated, they weren't as real life as they

599
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: are now. They were limited in what they could contain.

600
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: It was a single player world, not a multiplayer world.

601
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: That's a key difference what I just said. You went

602
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: to the store, you bought a disk, you stuck it

603
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: in your Xbox or your PlayStation two or whatever it

604
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: was at the time, and you had a single a

605
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: single player experience, and the and the community of that

606
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: experience was when you had your buddies come over and

607
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: sit next to you on the couch and you had

608
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: two controllers that looks like a teen fifty. Now now

609
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: you have a multiplayer environment completely online. You're playing with

610
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: people all over the world you'll never physically meet. Um.

611
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: Everything about it, from from the cloud to the technological

612
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: advances is completely on fire. You're living in what you

613
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: think is a real world. Everything looks if you play

614
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: FIFA Madness. It's really close. People actually getting mixed up

615
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: now between what's real and what's not real. Um, And

616
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: I think the difference not that you ask me this,

617
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: but I'm going to volunteer without you asking me this.

618
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: Having come from the record business to the game business.

619
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: Although as I like to say it, took me in

620
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, leaving the record business to finally

621
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: get into the music business. I know you'd like that,

622
00:35:54,600 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: but it's it's true, um is that the game business

623
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: I noticed, because I was on both sides, did not

624
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: try to hang on to the past. They did not

625
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: try to keep brick and mortar retail in business. They

626
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: didn't go out of their way to keep the shiny

627
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: disk boxed in a nice little jewel case and that's

628
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: the way to sell it. There was no attachment. Actually,

629
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: I was in many rooms where they would say, how

630
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: do we put this this stuff out of business? How

631
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: do we go direct? How do we create a one

632
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: on one to our players? Why is there a middleman?

633
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: Why are we sacrificing the dollars we're paying to the middleman.

634
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: So that's the financial point of view, but as importantly,

635
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: how to create a one on one relationship? I don't

636
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: recall up until two thousand and one, two thousand to

637
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: ever a record company where they said, how do we

638
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: create a one on one relationship with our music fans.

639
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 1: It was astonishing to me to hear the difference technology.

640
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: They weren't waiting for it, they were creating it. The

641
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: expectation of the player, but also the expectation of the corporation.

642
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: We're in the technology business. We can't look the same

643
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: in two thousand three like we do in two thousand two.

644
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: We need to evolve every year or else they're gonna

645
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: players are gonna hate us. We can't keep putting out

646
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: the same features and expect them to show up every year.

647
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: So look at look at how it looks in two

648
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: thousand and three. You see an animated, interactive fun game

649
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: on a on a limited platform, and now you're playing Fortnite.

650
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: By the way, the model changed to free to play.

651
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: Now you're going to place like Fortnite, free to enter.

652
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: The micro transaction replaced all that. Or if you're playing

653
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: Call of Duty, or in the case of e A

654
00:37:53,840 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: FIFA or Battlefield, you're downloading directly from the cloud and

655
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: gone of the days when you have to wait six

656
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: hours for it to show up. Shows up in six minutes,

657
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: sometimes one minute, and as it's downloading, you're already playing.

658
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: By the way, you're already in with thirty people from

659
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,959
Speaker 1: all over the world. So imagine if you not just

660
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: if you not just create technology, you don't have to

661
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: fight technology. If you're a part of the evolution in

662
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: the creation of technology, and that's the thinking. Imagine what

663
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,959
Speaker 1: the game business is gonna look like in five years

664
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: or ten years. Think about everything that's evolved now. I

665
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 1: know you're I've read lots of things you've done between

666
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: VR and a R and AI and on and on

667
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: and on. But I think you know, I've been watching

668
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: the difference now for twenty years between the two businesses

669
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: now the music business now meaning the label business and

670
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: and the publishing business. I think that they've realized that

671
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: technology is a great thing. Um my question my challenges

672
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: are they meaning my and your friends at labels, the

673
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: guys that and the women that run labels. Are they

674
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: becoming too complacent right now on the Spotify Apple model,

675
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: because at some point that has to end. You're going

676
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: to have to evolve to the next level. Are you

677
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: a part of building that. I think there are labels

678
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: like Warners and Juana, who's the head of digital there.

679
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: I think they invest properly. I think they're attaching themselves

680
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: and growing forward with new technologies. But but the point

681
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: is complacency is very, very dangerous, as we saw in

682
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: the record business, and as i've learned in the game business.

683
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 1: We cannot be where we are today in six months,

684
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: so twenty years. To answer your question, it's a whole

685
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: different medium now. And I don't just believe it. I

686
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: know it. The facts are out there. It is the

687
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: most important medium for anybody under the age of X.

688
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: And you can fill an X by the way. X

689
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: could mean twenty, it could be forty, depends who you ask.

690
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: Is interactive media? Is interactive entertainment? I think so apart

691
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: of the next generations thinking that they expect it in

692
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: all media. Are people who are five and ten in

693
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: fifteen and twenty now, really in twenty years going to

694
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: go on to go to a movie theater where they

695
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: see a film with a beginning, a middle, and an

696
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: end when all they've known their whole life is choice,

697
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: going left, going right, having an impact on the story.

698
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's something we need to really think about.

699
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: And again I'm volunteering this. You didn't ask me, but

700
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: I've had many, many conversations with the CEOs of many

701
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: labels I where they really start needing to pay attention

702
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: to you GC user generated content. I get it. There's

703
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: clearly problems and you know, Lucy and others. You know,

704
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: they should fight, you know, formats like TikTok because they

705
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: need to be compensated fairly. But the one thing they

706
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: do need to understand, and it's proven music fans want

707
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: to get their hands on the music they want to create.

708
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: I think that really comes from gaming. They want to create.

709
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: So how do we untether music in the future and

710
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: become fairly and fairly compensated, not do what we did

711
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: before twenty years ago with Napster where we held tight.

712
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna show them we're not going to let that

713
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: new technology disturb our model. How do we acknowledge that

714
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: you g c is what is expected? You know, I

715
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: was shocked at first, frankly because I came from the

716
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: record business. When all of a sudden, I saw so

717
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: many players creating their own FIFA moments or their battlefield

718
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: moments and attaching our music to it and uploading it

719
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: to YouTube at the time, and I used to think,

720
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: where's the takedowns they're stealing? And I was told by

721
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: our lawyers, no, actually, we actually want you want don't

722
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: you put all of our music up online? Why don't

723
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: you put all of our music on TikTok? We want

724
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: our players to create. That's what keeps them engaged. And

725
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: my shift in my thinking was immediate. I oh my god,

726
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: I've been trained in another business where I thought it

727
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: was theft. It's actually engagement. So how do we monetize it?

728
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: How do we make it fair? Is Spotify I can

729
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: to continue to have walls continuously for the future, or

730
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: is there another model? I mean, I don't know where

731
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: we gonna charge. If you charge me twelve bucks a

732
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: month for one service, but you know fifteen to untether

733
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: x amount of songs that I can go create, And

734
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: there was some model. I'm making that up. I'm going

735
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: to spend that money, particularly if I'm fifteen or eighteen.

736
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: I want to create with this music. So these are

737
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: things you know that I'm challenging people, not for the

738
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: sake of what I do. I created a catalog of

739
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands, thousands of cues. When I got there.

740
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: We didn't even own some of the music when I

741
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: walked in there. From all the years, now we own

742
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: some of the greatest, most well known themes period. There's

743
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: not a kid you're ever gonna find me that doesn't

744
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: know the theme to the sims or the theme to

745
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: Battlefield seven notes? You know, to me, I grew up

746
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: with those seven notes of Star Wars, don't dunt unt huh?

747
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: That was everything to me as a kid. But to

748
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: another kid who's fifteen or twenty now they listen to

749
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: do dundunt dun't don't, which is the theme to Battlefield,

750
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: and they go, holy, that's a holy ship moment. So

751
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: how do we monetize that but untether it? How do

752
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: we let kids get their hands on it and go

753
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: create with it? And I think this is the greatest

754
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: opportunity moment we have in twenty years, the untethering of music.

755
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: We can't repeat history. We can't do it. We can't

756
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: hold off when the art, particularly now that we if

757
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: we and we do have one on one relationship with

758
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: the music play the music consumer or the player gamer,

759
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: then we need to listen to them. And it's clear

760
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: people want to create, So why are we limiting them?

761
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: So I applaud Universal by the way for taking it on,

762
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 1: but we need to come up with a solution. And

763
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,439
Speaker 1: I know them very well. I know that's the way

764
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: they think as well. But we need to get there

765
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: as a community um in music and gaming. Hope that

766
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: makes sense. Let's just go sideways for a second. What

767
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 1: is the future for Microsoft and Sony. They have certain

768
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: game franchises, but they historically have had the consoles. Is

769
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: it really ultimately just to own the games? What's going

770
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: to happen there? I listen, I believe that. You remember

771
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: when um Bill Gates years ago said the Xbox is

772
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: going to be the center of your living room. Um,

773
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: that kind of is true now, I mean gaming. You

774
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: can get Netflix, you know it's the center. Um, they're

775
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: gonna be um cloud based boxes, right, I mean, uh,

776
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: there's no more disk than needs to be put into it.

777
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: You're gonna be able to download, You're gonna be able

778
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: to what I hope to see. I hope this comes true.

779
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 1: I think they're all working on it is. Imagine a

780
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: world a community. Let's use sports as an example. Or

781
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: on your PlayStation or your Xbox, you can find your

782
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: other Titans fans. I'm in Nashville. I can play, you know,

783
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: a game of Madden with them an hour before the

784
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: Titans are playing you know, the Broncos. And then without

785
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: even touching it, my whole community of thirty people that

786
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 1: I just played with sits there without even blinking an eye,

787
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: and we watched the game. We watched the actual game together,

788
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: and then we can tell we can go over here

789
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: to our music section and we can talk about the music. Well.

790
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: In other words, it's our virtual community. It is the

791
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: center of my living room. It is the center of

792
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: my community. People find each other with commonalities, and that

793
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: is where they find each other. Um, I do believe

794
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,959
Speaker 1: that that's where it's going to. Well, it's already going there.

795
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: You know. Look at the fanaticism rightly so of a Fortnight.

796
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: That's a community. Look at the fanaticism of Call of Duty.

797
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 1: That's a community. Look at the fanaticism of FIFA, that's

798
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: a community. So those communities have other interest maybe they're

799
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: associated with or aligned with gaming music one of them.

800
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: But as if you hear a new artist for the

801
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: first time, you know, in FIFA and you're in your

802
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: FIFA community, Hey, let's all meet tonight at o'clock on

803
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: Xbox and we're gonna do a one on one with

804
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: that artist. Let's all get some virtual merch together so

805
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: we can play in our Billie Eilish jerseys tonight versus

806
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: our Titans jerseys. Whatever. The point is that that is

807
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: where the community begins and ends. It's what you and

808
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: I used to do when we were kids, but we

809
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: had to go down the block and hope some other

810
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: kids showed up. But now you can do it, you know,

811
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: right from where you are. So I believe there's a

812
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: huge future in in in these boxes. Uh, in your

813
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: living room. Uh. They were very limited before. UM. I

814
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: think now listen, the question you didn't ask, but I

815
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: assume you were thinking was what happens when Microsoft acquires

816
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: Activision eventually? But since you jump, let's go, do we

817
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: does that limit them? Are they still going to Is

818
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: Activision now Call of Duty going to only be available

819
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: on Microsoft and not Sony anymore? Tbd? They say that's

820
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: not the way they're thinking. I hope that's true. I

821
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: think it'd be foolish personally. But Halo did quite well

822
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: on Xbox only. UM, so let's see what happens there. UM.

823
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: But I think it really is about community. It's about interactivity.

824
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: It's about interactive entertainment. Interactive just doesn't mean a button

825
00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: on your controller. Interactive means our community is try link together,

826
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: looking watching sports together, listening to music together, talking about

827
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 1: music together, playing games together. I think it's a really

828
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: exciting future. So let's go back to the players in

829
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: the field and market share, etcetera. Who are the big

830
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: players here? The big players are Activision e A, UM,

831
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: you know, take two. I used to work for straus

832
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: Zelnick at BMG and now you know he's across the hall,

833
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: so to speak. UM, certainly Epic, you know, UM and others.

834
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: I think the addition to your question is who are

835
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: the big players? But what what are their franchises? Are

836
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: they relying on one or two games or do do

837
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:48,439
Speaker 1: they have a very well spread out portfolio? I think

838
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: that's where you know, one of the many reasons why

839
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: I've been any A for twenty years is that we're

840
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: not reliant on one franchise for every battlefield. We have

841
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: FIFA for every Madden, we have SIMS for every UFC.

842
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: We have f one now we just did it. We

843
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: have Star Wars, we have Marvel. I mean, it's it's

844
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: a lot of tent pulse, so to speak, as opposed

845
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: to certain companies which are massive, but they rely on

846
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 1: one or two franchises. UM. So those are the players.

847
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: Of course, ten Cent you know, as a player, they

848
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: own a piece of everything. UM and Uh. I have

849
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 1: friends that have left e A to go work for them. Um.

850
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how happy they are though that they've left.

851
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: I think once you leave, you I know there's a

852
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: lot of they call them the boomerangs. There's people at

853
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: the A that have left and come back three or

854
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,919
Speaker 1: four times. So it must it must be a good

855
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: place to work. I haven't left, but you know people

856
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: keep coming back and saying thank God? Okay? Is it

857
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: analogous to the movie business, which is at this point

858
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 1: almost solely franchise in terms of dollars? What war? Can

859
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: you get a new game started? In a new game?

860
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: Does it have to be aligned with F one or something?

861
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: Can you start from the ground up? Yeah, it's a

862
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: great question, and it has changed dramatically. Long cone of

863
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: the day when you could put a bunch out and

864
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: see what sticks. Um. It takes years to develop original

865
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: I P. We do it, UM. I would say once

866
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: every year or two we take a bold step and

867
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: go for it, but there's years behind it. Sometimes we

868
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: bring back our old original I P and reinvent it.

869
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: Dead Space is a good example. It was a huge

870
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: hit in the late in the in the two thou

871
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: two nine Uh, and we're putting it back out this year.

872
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 1: We do enough research to know there's significant demand for it.

873
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: The same thing with Skate. Skate was original I p

874
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: UM back in the early two usins. However, we're changing

875
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: the model. It will be a free to play model.

876
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: It's in beta now with five hundred or a thousand people.

877
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: In two years it will be up to ten million,

878
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: fifteen million people. UM. But there's a lot of testing.

879
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: There's a lot of UM player feedback. UH. We listened

880
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: heavily to every player that comes into early beta's. UM.

881
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: But to answer your question, UM, putting out new I

882
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: p is significantly risky. UM. It's always preferred, you know,

883
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: to have your own original I p UM. But long

884
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: gone of the days when I first started, I remember

885
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 1: sitting with many executive producers talking about ideas for games,

886
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: and we go for it. UM happens a little more

887
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: and often now. UM. Also, the release schedule has thinned

888
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: out over the last five to ten years. There used

889
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: to be you know, Lord knows dozens and dozens of releases.

890
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: Now there's fifteen. UM. So you have to be very

891
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: confident in what you're putting out. UM. If you if

892
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: you put something out that you are either unsure about

893
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: or that is testing terribly um or testing poorly. I

894
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: should say, UM, then you better be prepared to engage

895
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: players after it comes out and continually give them content

896
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: to re engage them. You you don't run, you don't

897
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: kill things so quickly. Even if you have a poor

898
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: first showing, you double down and you engage them. The

899
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:41,399
Speaker 1: investment is significant. UM. The reason why, in the case

900
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: of F one, we did an acquisition. We acquired a

901
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: company and the UK called code Masters that makes some

902
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: of the greatest racing games on the planet. UM. So yeah,

903
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: in there there's a high level of confident. They had

904
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: a hugely successful F one game. UM. And last year

905
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: our first one to put out under e A Sports,

906
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: with all the talent, by the way that was associated

907
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: with building in that game still intact. We didn't suddenly

908
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: buy the franchise and replace Um. We had a hugely

909
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: successful showing. So there needs to be a high level

910
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,399
Speaker 1: of confidence going in. That doesn't mean there isn't room

911
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: for original thinking. UM. But it takes years. I mean

912
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: I'm working on games right now that won't come out

913
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: until we're that far ahead. Okay, when do you get

914
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: involved in a project. Yeah, no, that's a great question. Um.

915
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: The second something is green light. I get involved because, um,

916
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: I don't live in a post world and I don't

917
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 1: live in a quote unquote in production world. Once something

918
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: begins to be thought out, it is green light for

919
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: the first step. And we're building towards what we call

920
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: a vertical slice, and that means we're building one level

921
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 1: out just to present internally, to make sure that every

922
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: feels everybody feels confident about going the next step. I'm

923
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: heavily involved in building that vertical slice. I'm doing it

924
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 1: right now, hiring a composer or thinking about the tone

925
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: of the game and if it if it involves licensed music, um,

926
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: and and that that by thinking those things out early

927
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: enough that actually helps to evolve the characters. You know.

928
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: I have a thing that I do when it's a

929
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: more filmic based game, and I've done this in films

930
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 1: as well, even though we might we may never have

931
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 1: licensed music in the game and it's completely filmic. And

932
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 1: I'm hiring Lauren Ball for Hans Emmer to do the score. Hypothetically,

933
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 1: I look at the characters and I like to build

934
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: playlists if they were real What would they be listening to?

935
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: Who are they? Are they into new music or the

936
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: into classic music or the anto you know which genre

937
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: of music? What would their patterns of listening be. Because

938
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: by associating music to them, each individual helps grow the personality.

939
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: And actually by building those playlists, that helps the writers

940
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: also begin to go I never thought about it that

941
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: character would do this, that characters like this, that character

942
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: has the possible ability to do this. So music helps

943
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 1: us define who those characters are. Um, I've sat there

944
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 1: with major composers for two years coming up with tones

945
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: and ideas and themes. Some themes never make it to

946
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 1: the final product, but what they do is they'd help

947
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: develop the story. So the answer to your question is

948
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: very very very early, you know, um, long one in

949
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: the days, you know even by the way, to further

950
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: answer your question, FIFA twenty three launches, you know, one day,

951
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: and I'm working on a FIFA the next day, so

952
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: there's never a pause. Those are annual products, so you

953
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: only have a year to figure it out. But the

954
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 1: more filming, you know, filming games like Battlefield or Mass

955
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: Effect or Dragon Age years three years, sometimes four, Okay,

956
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: so you're in there you're making playlists, etcetera. When do

957
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: you establish a budget and when do you spend dollar one? Yeah, um,

958
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: usually when we get past the with the exception of

959
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,280
Speaker 1: hiring a composer early, where I'm exposed to an initial

960
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: payment to that composer. UM. I usually don't start spending

961
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: money until our vertical slices passed the the internal test

962
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,240
Speaker 1: and we're on our way. We're on a production schedule.

963
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: At that point, I develop a budget. I take a

964
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:43,919
Speaker 1: look at what we need, possibly what we don't need.

965
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: I take a look at the what the score might

966
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: sound like, so I can begin to project, um ahead,

967
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: what the costs of recording that orchestra will be. UM,

968
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,320
Speaker 1: what level of composer, unless I've hired that composer already,

969
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: a level that composer I'm going to be able to

970
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 1: afford to bring on. UM. So I would say, the

971
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: day we get the vertical slice pass full thumbs up, greenlit,

972
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: move forward, I'm in. So I'm managing that budget usually

973
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 1: for about two years. Our next Star Wars project, which

974
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 1: comes out in March, I've been working on for well.

975
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 1: I measure it now by the pandemic, through the entire

976
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: pandemic so what was that one? Um, sorry, it's almost

977
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: three years. So that's the length because I remember starting

978
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: it there. Um, so I built that budget out three

979
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: years ago. UM, and uh, we're just finishing it now.

980
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: We have one more thing to complete and then we're done.

981
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: So that's a full full three years of writing, recording,

982
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: managing a budget, um, and delivering against what the expectations are. Now,

983
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: of course there's the issue of whether you're going to

984
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: have a score, whether you're gonna have licensed music, whether

985
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: you can combine those. How do you come up with

986
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: the raw number for a budget? Does it depend on

987
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: the overall budget of the game, or do they say,

988
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: we trust you, Steve, just tell us what it should cost.

989
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: How do you come up with a number? I think

990
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: it's a combination of the two. I mean, certainly on

991
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: a smaller mobile game comparatively to hypothetically Star Wars, you imagine,

992
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: the budgets are quite different and so the expectations are

993
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: much different as well. By the way, so, um, I'm

994
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: able to suggest uh and usually get signed off on

995
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: a budget big enough to be able to deliver on

996
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: a title like that. Um. But there is Yes, I've

997
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: been there twenty years So I think I am confidently

998
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: um and humbly at the place where you know, I'll

999
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: present a budget and people trust me. Um. I'm not

1000
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: stupid uh, and I'm certainly um trustworthy enough internally to

1001
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: where I'm not going to spend million dollars on something

1002
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: where the expectations should be fifty grand. Um. So I

1003
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: think I'm to the point now or after all these years,

1004
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: where I can suggest a budget to the ep UH

1005
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: and have finance sign off on it uh quickly because

1006
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: they understand what I'm delivering will deliver. So to speak, Um,

1007
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: that takes time. It takes um delivering winning scores, It

1008
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: takes years of seeing audience player feedback. You know, nobody

1009
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: blinks an I fortunately with me right now, you know

1010
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: when I put in a budget for FIFA, because everybody

1011
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: sees the cultural impact and the and the return on

1012
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: investment of that license music budget. Um. But I'm also

1013
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: not stupid to where I'm gonna go and say I

1014
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: want to triple my budget. I pretty much delivered on

1015
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: the same numbers every year, you know, and if something changes, um,

1016
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: then I adjust, okay, Uh, just because I remember the

1017
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: question I was going to ask in terms of mobile games.

1018
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: How big a part of that is e A. And

1019
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 1: of course, if you're on the iPhone platform, apples taking

1020
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: you have the Google Play. What's going on in that

1021
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: world is opposed to the stuff that's downloaded for play

1022
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: on the Internet or whatever. I mean mobile games. We've

1023
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: invested heavily in mobile games. I mean we acquired Glue, um,

1024
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: which remember the days when this little help was I'm

1025
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 1: anticipating a question in this conversation about Kanye So remember

1026
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 1: when his ex wife had her big uh mobile game.

1027
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: Glue did that. And Glue also did the Taylor Swift

1028
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: game that I don't know if that ever came to life,

1029
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: but and so there they were a massive mobile platform

1030
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: and we acquired those guys. In the last two years. Um,

1031
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: we're finally pouring out all of our franchises like FIFA

1032
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:00,439
Speaker 1: and others onto mobile platforms. So we're investing heavily in mobile. Uh.

1033
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: The economics, like you said, you know, think about it.

1034
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: You're wherever you're buying those is a piece being taken out.

1035
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: Of course, you know you're gonna buy a mobile game

1036
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: on Apple, you know the economics of it, um, But

1037
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: you know console games are where the significant expenses in

1038
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: creating and developing significant. Okay, So if you have one

1039
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: of your big games, whether it be uh end well

1040
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: or every three or four years, if it's solely score,

1041
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: or if it's solely licensed music, what's the number for

1042
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: the budget ballpark? UM? I can tell you this. I

1043
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: can tell you what I can and cannot answer, but

1044
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: UM it is to answer an earlier questionnaires. It is

1045
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: somewhat like the movie industry in that regard. Somewhere between

1046
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 1: one of the overall score UM closer to one usually

1047
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: is what I can get for a music budget. It's

1048
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: small comparatively to the overall numbers in developing a game. UM.

1049
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: You know, I. I know you didn't ask me this,

1050
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna say it anyway. UM I I believe

1051
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: that we should always pay, you know, for other people's

1052
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: IP We pay to license music into FIFA. We pay

1053
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: the license music in the Madden There have been thoughts

1054
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: for years about what television used to do. Well, we

1055
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: have a we're a promotional vehicle, so you should give

1056
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:33,959
Speaker 1: it to us for free. And I fought that every

1057
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: single ounce of the way for several reasons. Number one, UM,

1058
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: the minute we start not paying for music and either

1059
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: accept payment for the placement or take it for free.

1060
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 1: The credibility of our curation goes down the toilet, and

1061
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 1: that can never happen. We have to make decisions based

1062
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: on great music that will travel around the world. I

1063
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: also believe you pay for other people's intellectual property, and

1064
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 1: if we're licensing something, we're gonna pay for it. So um,

1065
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: you know, I manage, you know, to get a hundred

1066
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: plus songs in FIFA close to that in Madden, and

1067
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: I set a budget incording accordingly where the money goes

1068
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: the right way, it goes to the people who are

1069
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: licensing from We make better decisions. Everybody wants to be

1070
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: in that real estate. But you know we don't make

1071
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: those We don't make those decisions based on cost or

1072
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: money spent. We make those decisions based on the best

1073
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: music possible. And you know, fees and budgets set on that.

1074
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: Everybody has an expectation as to what we're gonna pay.

1075
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 1: Let's go to the easier side the score. So you

1076
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: may hire someone prior to the layer cake being complete,

1077
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: but you're gonna hire somebody shut either after over the

1078
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 1: period of years, which is longer than it takes to

1079
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: make a movie. How involved is the composer? Tell me

1080
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: the relationship from the moment you hire them to end

1081
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: of production. Yeah, this is a part of the business

1082
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: in particular that I genuinely and deeply love. I didn't

1083
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: know how much I loved it, frankly, Bob, until I

1084
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: got into it to the point where I have such

1085
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 1: a deep connection to the composer community. Um, listen, I

1086
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: allow the composer to be involved, he or she as

1087
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: deeply as they would like to be. I would prefer

1088
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: more than less. I would prefer to them to have

1089
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 1: input into the story, into the characters. I want that

1090
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: because I want the music to inextricably tie in with

1091
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 1: the characters and the action. Um. So, these are very

1092
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: long periods of time, So I don't have Hans Zimmer

1093
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: or Hilda or others exclusively for these three years they're

1094
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: doing they're doing movies, they're doing television shows. But when

1095
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: we get closer to release, after years of building these

1096
01:04:55,800 --> 01:05:00,959
Speaker 1: tones and ideas, then they come in the time exclusively

1097
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: and they helped me finish out the project. That's kind

1098
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: of where it's just that's more like a movie. Um, Frankly,

1099
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 1: I've never seen a composer now that I think about

1100
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: it to this day that hasn't just dove in the

1101
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: deep end. They want all in the biggest composers in

1102
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: the world. I watched, you know, shows on Netflix and

1103
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: HBO and others, and I'm blown away by some of

1104
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 1: the music that's happening in television right now, which is

1105
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 1: one of the most exciting places too for entertainment. My

1106
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 1: you know, there's I don't even know if we announced

1107
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 1: it yet. We will in a minute, So while say

1108
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 1: here here, I'll say it here anyway, pardon me, um.

1109
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: I was watching the show on Apple called Servant. It

1110
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: was a Shamalan thing. The music was so damn good.

1111
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: It was horror music, but like I never heard before.

1112
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: Horror music is supposed to sound like Bernard Herman meets

1113
01:05:54,480 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, um, Halloween, but this was psychological. The music sick.

1114
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: It's scared the b Jesus out of me, the music

1115
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: in that. And so for Dead Space, which comes out

1116
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 1: next year early next year, I wanted this guy, Trevor Grecus,

1117
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: didn't meet him, never knew, blew my mind. So this

1118
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 1: relationship now is two years old. He has contributed so

1119
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 1: much in challenging us. What does horror feel like? What

1120
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 1: does fear feel like? How could you psychologically get into

1121
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: the head of somebody on a couch who you'll never meet,

1122
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 1: to where they are emotionally messed up from what's happening

1123
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: on screen musically speaking. So I think you want somebody

1124
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: like that who has huge ideas, who's the next generation thinker,

1125
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: who understands the medium. Because Trevor is a game fanatic.

1126
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 1: He understood massive fact he he played the old Dead Spaces,

1127
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: he knew it. I don't need composers because they're gamers,

1128
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: because they understand the technology. But I want composers who

1129
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: understand the opportunities that come with the medium, and that

1130
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 1: to me is where it changes the whole game, no

1131
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 1: pun intended. Lauren Bolf does the same. He does Mission

1132
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: Impossible and all these great movies that are that are

1133
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: in the theaters. But when I work with him, he

1134
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 1: digs in because it's like it's like a sandbox. Now

1135
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: I get to explore. Now I get to have fun.

1136
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 1: Now I'm not tethered to that thing the director shot

1137
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: that's on screen. Now I can come up with all

1138
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: these crazy ideas. I can invent instruments. We can play

1139
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: the instruments in ways they're not even supposed to be played.

1140
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: We can go and you know, just whatever wacky ideas

1141
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: that enhanced that emotional participation. And um, I just think

1142
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 1: it's it's really become. Frankly, one if not my favorite

1143
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 1: parts of the gig is digging in with these intensely

1144
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 1: creative minds and coming up with ways. Well, I'm gonna

1145
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: give you another example. Hilder, who won the Oscar for Joker,

1146
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: who I learned warners wanted to fire her every single day,

1147
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 1: not Todd Phillips but everybody else because she was doing

1148
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:28,680
Speaker 1: something very against the grain. Um. When I first met her,

1149
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 1: I was smart enough to go to Berlin. It was

1150
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: my last trip before the pandemic. Uh. I knew she

1151
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 1: was going to win the Oscar, but she hadn't, and

1152
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to hire her to do battlefield the next battlefield.

1153
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 1: Battlefield takes place obviously in the future, but the not

1154
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:52,759
Speaker 1: too distance future. Climate change has completely destroyed the world

1155
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 1: as we know it. Sounds like it could be true.

1156
01:08:56,280 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: Hurricanes are ten times stronger, snow snowstorms or growing up

1157
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 1: in July, nations are underwater, there's two nations left, Russia

1158
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: and the US, and they go to war. They're not

1159
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 1: fighting for land, they're fighting for control of climate. So

1160
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:21,799
Speaker 1: I sat with Hilder and at first she said, m hm,

1161
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:23,519
Speaker 1: war game. I don't know how I feel about that.

1162
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 1: Remember I knew her for an hour, and I said,

1163
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, the difference between call of duty and battlefield

1164
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 1: is battlefield isn't about war. Let's see how many people

1165
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 1: we can shoot. Choo choo, choo shoot. It actually makes

1166
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:39,759
Speaker 1: you think as to why we're in war. It actually

1167
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: is a war game with a conscious And imagine if

1168
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 1: we could write a score we didn't know there was

1169
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 1: a pandemic that was about to happen. Imagine if we

1170
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 1: could write a score that was indistinguishable between the music

1171
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: and the sound design, to where the bullets sounded like percussion. Sorry,

1172
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: the helicopter sounded like cushion, the bullets coming out of helicopters,

1173
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: and the string sounded like the wind. But to the

1174
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 1: point where the fear of the inevitable, unless we get

1175
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 1: a grasp as to what the hell is going on

1176
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: with climate change in this world, it makes you shake

1177
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: in your shoes, shake in your chair. Can we write

1178
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: a score where you can listen to it on Spotify,

1179
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 1: and I really recommend it from the beginning to the end.

1180
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 1: Get some wine, smoke a joint, I don't care, Get

1181
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 1: into a place, lean back in a chair. Can it

1182
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: live in its own? Can it be a warning? Can

1183
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: it let us know? Can it let us feel what

1184
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 1: we're doing to this planet, the inevitable where we're headed?

1185
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 1: And her eyes lit up. I said, so, think about

1186
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 1: it as a piece of music that works in the game,

1187
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 1: but think of it also as a piece of art,

1188
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 1: a piece of music that can live in its own

1189
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 1: and shake our souls to what we've done to this

1190
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 1: planet and what's an inevitably going to happen unless we

1191
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: get on the right track. Can we do that? And

1192
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:08,600
Speaker 1: within an hour here's a woman that just won the

1193
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: Golden Globe, was about to win an oscar, and she

1194
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 1: was signing on to do music for a game she

1195
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 1: never played, a game she never wrote for a game.

1196
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 1: We decided not to record any live instruments. We decided

1197
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 1: to invent instruments. We decided to go to a shipyard

1198
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 1: in France and record the scraping of the hull against

1199
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 1: the metal and the cement. We wanted it to not

1200
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 1: necessarily be musical. We wanted it to be emotional. So

1201
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: I've sat in the studio at my house many times

1202
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 1: and listen to the score album. It is not like

1203
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 1: listening to you know, Fiddler on the Roof or or

1204
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 1: anything like that. It makes you go. It's if there's

1205
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 1: a little nine inch nails in there in the sense

1206
01:11:57,120 --> 01:12:01,479
Speaker 1: of electronic what the f is this? There's a lot

1207
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,479
Speaker 1: of pulsation in there that makes your heart go to

1208
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 1: a place you can't imagine. And there's a hell of

1209
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:10,760
Speaker 1: a lot. At the end of forty something minutes, you're

1210
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 1: sitting there in your chair saying, what the funk was that?

1211
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 1: And hopefully, and now I believe she's about to be

1212
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: hopefully nominated for two Oscars I hear this year. But

1213
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: I've seen it performed eleven minute piece at Disney Hall,

1214
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 1: and I just saw another maybe fifteen minute piece of

1215
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 1: the score performed at the Opera House in Sweden. And

1216
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: it lives on its own. It can sit on its

1217
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 1: own and be a masterpiece and art piece because art

1218
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 1: is supposed to and I think you'll agree shake you

1219
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:47,679
Speaker 1: to your core. If you see something or feel something,

1220
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: it's supposed to shake you. It's supposed to make you think,

1221
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 1: wake up, even if you don't like it, even if

1222
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:56,600
Speaker 1: you disagree with it, even if you hate it. I

1223
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:00,080
Speaker 1: don't need war in this case. Every time you in

1224
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 1: a battle for it to be Timpani who said war

1225
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 1: has to a victory has to sound like fog horn

1226
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,679
Speaker 1: d I mean if I ever was in a war

1227
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 1: and I just want a battle and I killed people,

1228
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: I'd throw up. Probably I would not have a victory.

1229
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 1: Lap so we wanted today could take a different approach

1230
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 1: out of it that hopefully to answer your question, is

1231
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,639
Speaker 1: the level of high involvement that some of the best

1232
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 1: composers in the world all get involved with when it

1233
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 1: comes to this medium. It's pretty phenomenal to see it

1234
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 1: now there are a lot of old rockers involved in composition.

1235
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: Is that window still open? And what is the barrier

1236
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 1: to entry for newbies to the sphere. When you say

1237
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 1: old rockers want, you mean old rockers wanting to get

1238
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 1: their music into you. No, no, no, no, I'm talking

1239
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:06,680
Speaker 1: about his composers like Mark Mark m M. Yeah. I

1240
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: get a lot of calls, Bob from a lot of

1241
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 1: guys in bands that I worked with in the old

1242
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 1: days or bands that I certainly know of in the

1243
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 1: old days that they want to be composers. Um. Very

1244
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:25,639
Speaker 1: few can make that transition. There are great exceptions. Trevor Rabin,

1245
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:30,559
Speaker 1: Mark Mother's Bow, you know, certainly the guys in nine

1246
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: inch Nails. You know, Trent and Atticus UM, Jeff Russo, UM.

1247
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 1: Certain guys can do it. Most camp and I've done

1248
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:47,280
Speaker 1: it with many, probably a few too many times because

1249
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 1: I was a fan and thought, oh, this is just

1250
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:51,640
Speaker 1: gonna be awesome. I've always wanted to work with this

1251
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 1: guy or this woman. UM. But there's it's it's a

1252
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 1: big gap between being a rock star and being a

1253
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:04,639
Speaker 1: composed The first one is collaboration. If you're making a record,

1254
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 1: you're going into studio, you're shutting everybody out. You deliver

1255
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 1: the record, maybe to your A and R guy, Maybe

1256
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 1: he gives you an hour or three of feedback. Maybe

1257
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: you adjust, maybe you don't. But it was done in isolation.

1258
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 1: Hans Simmer doesn't do anything in isolation. He calls me.

1259
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 1: He's working with me right now every single day. What

1260
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,800
Speaker 1: do you think about this? Should I change it? Does

1261
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 1: it fit? Yeah? Hans? Why don't we try doing this?

1262
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: Instead of this, I need to get this emotion out

1263
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 1: of it. Okay, I'll be back. It's a collaborative thing.

1264
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 1: So sometimes a little ego gets in the way of

1265
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 1: the rock star trying to be a composer. Sometimes the

1266
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 1: idea that they're being given direction doesn't fall so well

1267
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 1: on their ears. I was working God, I was so

1268
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 1: optimistic about working with this big, high profile hip hop guy, um,

1269
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 1: and after a couple weeks, I just we just couldn't

1270
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:03,440
Speaker 1: go any further because every time I would give direction,

1271
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: he would come back with a different version of what

1272
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:10,920
Speaker 1: he did. And I'm not saying my my word, my

1273
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 1: direction is the end and make it like me. That's

1274
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 1: not what I'm saying, But like Hans or Hilder, where

1275
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 1: we'll sit there and we'll come up with crazy ideas.

1276
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: What if we could do this? What if they challenge me,

1277
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 1: I challenge them. It's a pretty deep relation. Listen, a

1278
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 1: lot of these composers have become my best friends. I

1279
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: spend more time with them than anybody you know, to

1280
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:35,440
Speaker 1: three years on a project, every day, hours every day,

1281
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:41,599
Speaker 1: so that transition is really really tough. Um. Like I said,

1282
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 1: there are exceptions, you know, Jeff Russo has become an

1283
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 1: incredible composer. Played guitar in a rock band. Who knew

1284
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:54,760
Speaker 1: he knew probably I worked with him before. Um incredible

1285
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 1: collaborative spirit. But then there's the next generation of great

1286
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:03,320
Speaker 1: composers who did play in rock bands, Chris Bowers, Hilda

1287
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:06,840
Speaker 1: who I just talked about. It's collaboration from the second

1288
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:10,759
Speaker 1: you enter the room together. There's no here's my idea,

1289
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist. It's let's create the vision where when?

1290
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 1: And and very humbly speaking, Hans Zimmer, biggest composer in

1291
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 1: the world. What do you think? Did I get it wrong?

1292
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:24,320
Speaker 1: I might have gotten it wrong? What do you think?

1293
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:28,040
Speaker 1: And they want feedback. There isn't an ego asking here,

1294
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: you know. It's I'm not saying ego doesn't exist, because

1295
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 1: that would be naive. But it's a very different thing

1296
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 1: than making a record. UM. And I really enjoy UM.

1297
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: You know. I'm heavily involved in the SCL the Society

1298
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:53,080
Speaker 1: Composers and Lyricists, and this community of collaborators is quite impressive,

1299
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:55,640
Speaker 1: and it's something I was never really exposed to when

1300
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: I was in the record business for so long. You'd

1301
01:17:58,320 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 1: go in there and you'd make a record with the

1302
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: band end, but you had to make sure you were

1303
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 1: good to their ego. You know, that's great. How many

1304
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 1: hopefully I wasn't in too many, But you know how

1305
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 1: many times did you go in the board room once

1306
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 1: a week and they played a record and you thought

1307
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:15,720
Speaker 1: the record was average? But everybody's bobbing their head up

1308
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 1: and down because everybody's looking at each other, and because

1309
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 1: the CEO is in the room, Oh my god. But

1310
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 1: you're going, oh my god, this thing's gonna stiff the

1311
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:25,679
Speaker 1: second and it's radio. You know, everybody's bullshitting each other.

1312
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 1: Composers and myself and others. We don't bullshit each other.

1313
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 1: We just we understand the end result is the most

1314
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 1: important thing. How we get there, it doesn't matter. There's

1315
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 1: no feelings to be hurt. You know, there's no my

1316
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 1: way or the highway, you know. So just going back

1317
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: to the Hilder thing, you know, it's it's it's going

1318
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 1: to disturb you to listen to the score for Battlefield,

1319
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 1: and that's the intention. But that wasn't something that she

1320
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 1: came up with and said, Okay, I got it, I'll

1321
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 1: write it, I'll send it to you in three months.

1322
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 1: That was Monday through Saturday. She was in Berlin. I

1323
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 1: was in Nashville during a pandemic. We had our Swedish

1324
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: producers every day on the phone hours listening to not

1325
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 1: just Q by Q, listening to bar by bar of

1326
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 1: collaborative effort to create something that all of us. I

1327
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:29,120
Speaker 1: remember I handed the first portion to score in and

1328
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 1: I had some people go, what is this? This is horrible?

1329
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 1: We can't deal with this. Why because it's upsetting us.

1330
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: Good We're on the right track. Okay, let's flip the

1331
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: story over. Uh, let's talk about a totally licensed UH score.

1332
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:51,000
Speaker 1: What I mean is different individual rock, pop, hip hop tracks.

1333
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:53,880
Speaker 1: How do you decide to do that? And what are

1334
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 1: the steps in that? So? I have some rules I've

1335
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:00,920
Speaker 1: had for twenty years with my team, and my team

1336
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:04,879
Speaker 1: has been together for that long. Uh. Nobody is allowed

1337
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 1: to listen to the radio. Ever. Nobody is allowed to

1338
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 1: be influenced or looked at charts. Ever. Nobody is allowed

1339
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 1: to define success in a one dimensional way. Having a

1340
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,639
Speaker 1: number one or a top ten record is meaningless because

1341
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:24,759
Speaker 1: success in the year two and music can be defined

1342
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 1: in many different ways. Is somebody who gets a hundred

1343
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 1: million streams on Spotify more important than somebody who has

1344
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:35,200
Speaker 1: a million streams. They're both successful, depends who they are,

1345
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 1: depends what the expectations were. So I believe if we

1346
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: pay attention to trends, if we understand who's on their

1347
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 1: way up, who's potentially not where to certain where are

1348
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 1: certain genres going in the World's hip hop? Certainly, you

1349
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:55,240
Speaker 1: can look at the numbers of hip hop. It's the

1350
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 1: most popular genre in music around the world. But where

1351
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:03,000
Speaker 1: is it in its life in its lifetime right now?

1352
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 1: You know, we were we were we were working with Anita,

1353
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:11,800
Speaker 1: you know, years ago, you know, in Latin America because

1354
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:15,960
Speaker 1: we believed we saw this trend of the globalization of

1355
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 1: Latin music. So we were placing Anita in the sims

1356
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 1: like before. We were fighting our own folks internally, you know,

1357
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 1: um rock, I told Sabelle on my team the second

1358
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:33,599
Speaker 1: I started hearing a couple of years ago, rock is dead.

1359
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,160
Speaker 1: I said, take the NHL franchise and bring rock back.

1360
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 1: It's gonna come back. There's no way you're gonna convince

1361
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 1: me rock is dead forever. Go find the greatest rock

1362
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:45,800
Speaker 1: bands on the planet, not the old ones, not the

1363
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 1: ones that sound like the old ones. What is rocks?

1364
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 1: And what is a kid? Who's a team? Who was

1365
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 1: raised on jay Z and Metallica because parents played it?

1366
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:57,840
Speaker 1: What is the what is that sound like? What is

1367
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 1: the next evolution of rock? Sound like? Take the entire

1368
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: NHL soundtrack and devoted to bringing rock back, pay attention

1369
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 1: to the fact that it's not dead forever, and have

1370
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 1: confidence that we can be a part of that. So

1371
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 1: I my job is to surround myself with people with

1372
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:22,679
Speaker 1: impeccable taste. I have an opinion. Um, my opinion is strong,

1373
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 1: and we all fight and the best Remember those fights

1374
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:28,639
Speaker 1: he used to have? I remember them so finally, when

1375
01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:31,160
Speaker 1: I used to have all my buddies over, usually to

1376
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:33,599
Speaker 1: our living room or sometimes in my bedroom, and we'd

1377
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 1: all bring records and we'd play it, and we'd play

1378
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:38,719
Speaker 1: Talking Heads of the Police, and we'd fight over which

1379
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 1: one was best. That track sucks, No, you're wrong, this

1380
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,240
Speaker 1: track is huge? What's wrong with you? Elvis Costello's I mean,

1381
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 1: I love those fights because they weren't fights, weren't batting

1382
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 1: each other up. We were being passionate. We loved it

1383
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:52,720
Speaker 1: so much. I was allowed to love one band more

1384
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 1: than you and vice versa. I love those conversations we

1385
01:22:56,439 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 1: have at work. I actually encourage them once a while.

1386
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:02,840
Speaker 1: I'll stick my neck out and go, you know, I

1387
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:05,360
Speaker 1: like Coldplay, but I don't know if Coldplay is really

1388
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:07,720
Speaker 1: for him. You know, an eighteen year old play. You

1389
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: know who's listening, Who's going to see Coldplay right now?

1390
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 1: I'm not denying their talent. I'm not denying how huge

1391
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:19,760
Speaker 1: they are, you know, but um, maybe there's some other

1392
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:23,880
Speaker 1: choices we should make. Maybe we should invest in a

1393
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:26,799
Speaker 1: lot of artists that people have yet to hear from.

1394
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 1: Because if I did a focus group today for FIFA

1395
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:36,800
Speaker 1: twenty four, people would tell me to put in the

1396
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 1: bands from last year because they love them so much.

1397
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 1: But last year they hadn't heard of them yet. So,

1398
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 1: as taste makers, and I say that with humility, as

1399
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:50,519
Speaker 1: people with real estate, where we need to be highly

1400
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:54,479
Speaker 1: responsible for what gets into that real estate, musically speaking,

1401
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: we better be damn good. I don't expect you to

1402
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:01,480
Speaker 1: love every one of the hundred songs. That would be impossible.

1403
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 1: But if you actually love a couple and they change

1404
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 1: your life, and you can look back and say, oh

1405
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:08,640
Speaker 1: my god, the first time I heard this was an

1406
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 1: NHL two thousand and seven to change my life, and

1407
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 1: you're talking about that in two that's a huge, huge

1408
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 1: positive thing we've we've created. So we spend a year

1409
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 1: and we look at every possible angle. Where is music going,

1410
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:27,920
Speaker 1: where is it not going? You know, how much do

1411
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:30,120
Speaker 1: we invest in this genre? How much do we invest

1412
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:32,800
Speaker 1: in I can't. I can't. I learned the hard way.

1413
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 1: For a couple of years, I would spread the genres

1414
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: out in Madden Football because I would go to a

1415
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys game and they would play country. And then

1416
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 1: I'd go to a New York Giants game and they

1417
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:46,120
Speaker 1: would play hypothetically jay Z. And I'd go to the

1418
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,960
Speaker 1: NFL and they'd say we are nine and ninety were

1419
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 1: everything for everybody. And then I realized it's impossible. If

1420
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 1: you think you're everything for everybody, then you're nothing to everybody.

1421
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 1: You have to make a choice, you have to put

1422
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:01,599
Speaker 1: your you know, whats on the line. You have to say,

1423
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 1: this is what we're gonna sound like, this is the tone,

1424
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,040
Speaker 1: these are the limits to where we're gonna go. These

1425
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:09,439
Speaker 1: are the artists we're going to invest in in this year,

1426
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:13,960
Speaker 1: and hopefully it'll stick. And once you engage the audience

1427
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 1: year after year, they have higher and higher expectations. So yeah,

1428
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: I went from Blake Shelton five years ago in Madden

1429
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:28,920
Speaker 1: Football to Kendrick lamar Uh to the baby before he

1430
01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 1: did what he did, and now we're all hip hop

1431
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:36,439
Speaker 1: because and not just hip hop. Like, let's take a

1432
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 1: look at the charts. As I said, who are the

1433
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:43,639
Speaker 1: next stars? Who's change? We hired you know, um hit

1434
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:46,679
Speaker 1: Boy to do the score. There's a rock star turning

1435
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:49,280
Speaker 1: into a composer. He did an incredible job this year.

1436
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:52,680
Speaker 1: The players, and I don't mean our players, I mean

1437
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:56,720
Speaker 1: the NFL players. They listen to our soundtrack. I don't

1438
01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:00,280
Speaker 1: care about the guys in the Budweiser stand, the people

1439
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 1: my age who go in there and they want to

1440
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:04,760
Speaker 1: hear more Bong Jovi in a football game. I don't care.

1441
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 1: I care about what the players in the field listened to.

1442
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 1: In the locker room. At the Titans games we used

1443
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 1: to have I've been in a game this year yet,

1444
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:18,719
Speaker 1: but we used to have the Madden twenty when everybody

1445
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:23,320
Speaker 1: was walking into the stadium, not into the suits, but

1446
01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 1: into the regular seats with their kids. They would play

1447
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:28,879
Speaker 1: all the music from Madden that year in the stands

1448
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:33,760
Speaker 1: and the NFL did a focus group a test and

1449
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:36,479
Speaker 1: they said it tested through the roof, and I said,

1450
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Used to tell me that only NFL fans

1451
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 1: want to hear. All they want to hear is classic rock,

1452
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 1: and they said, yeah, those are the people in the sweets.

1453
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:47,679
Speaker 1: But we were talking like kids and they were freaking out,

1454
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 1: and I said, do you know how easy it is?

1455
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:53,640
Speaker 1: Look how easy that is. You're making yourself relevant just

1456
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 1: by the association. All those kids play Madden. We can't

1457
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 1: deny it. They play Madden. The players obviously play Madden.

1458
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 1: That's the soundtrack that they hear for months. It's embedded

1459
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 1: in their brains. They walk into a football stadium, maybe

1460
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 1: it's the first time they've ever gone to see a

1461
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:15,080
Speaker 1: live sporting event, and the first thing they hear is

1462
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 1: that it's credible. So, um, long winded way, I hope

1463
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 1: I answered the question. Maybe I didn't. I apologize, but um,

1464
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:30,639
Speaker 1: it's from now, um through the fall through January, all

1465
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 1: we're doing is talking about how we did, what we did,

1466
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,360
Speaker 1: what we got right, what we got wrong. What is

1467
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 1: the next year to look like? Genre wise? We're gonna

1468
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:41,240
Speaker 1: have a lot of conversations about hip hop. Where is

1469
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:45,639
Speaker 1: hip hop going? What's the next underground of hip hop?

1470
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:51,120
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a lot about Latin music, We're gonna

1471
01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:55,200
Speaker 1: talk a lot about rock and roll, and we're gonna

1472
01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 1: make some decisions based on next year. That doesn't mean

1473
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 1: Madden's gonna necessarily sound. It's not gonna become I'm not

1474
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:02,960
Speaker 1: telling you it's gonna be all rock and roll next year.

1475
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 1: But we really have to look at, Okay, fifteen and

1476
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:09,320
Speaker 1: eighteen year olds, this is what they listened to this year.

1477
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 1: We're going to actually hopefully be a part of shaping

1478
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,800
Speaker 1: their musical taste for the next year. Now, what about

1479
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 1: next year's fifteen year old? What does that look like?

1480
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:21,160
Speaker 1: In cases like FIFA, what does that look like? In

1481
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:26,799
Speaker 1: Italy and the UK and Argentina and the US and Japan.

1482
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:34,240
Speaker 1: We do not localize the music. We localize games for language,

1483
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 1: but we do not localize the music. So when an

1484
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:41,840
Speaker 1: artist gets into FIFA, everybody in the world heard, you

1485
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 1: know Lewis the child. I just love this because you

1486
01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 1: know this is years ago, maybe eight years ago, six

1487
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:50,640
Speaker 1: years ago. Um, I think I don't quote me on

1488
01:28:50,720 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 1: the number, but on Spotify, it was like seven thousand streams,

1489
01:28:55,720 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 1: and then we announced that year the soundtrack list and

1490
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:02,840
Speaker 1: Louis the Child's name was on it and went to

1491
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 1: a million in twenty four hours just from a list.

1492
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:13,360
Speaker 1: Nobody had heard the song yet, So we really need

1493
01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 1: to get it right. And I take that responsibility, and

1494
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 1: that responsibility it doesn't always reflect my personal taste, you know,

1495
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:24,640
Speaker 1: I just I think I have pretty good taste. But

1496
01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 1: I need to think about that player, that player around

1497
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:31,839
Speaker 1: the world who's going to learn something new musically speaking

1498
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:35,960
Speaker 1: for the first time. So we need to be impeccable

1499
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:44,320
Speaker 1: in our people culturally, clem clairvoyant and understand trends. And

1500
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 1: I need to make sure I'm surrounded by people always

1501
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:50,200
Speaker 1: that understand that. And that goes back to the beginning

1502
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 1: of this. Why I don't let anybody listen to the radio.

1503
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear from anybody. It's number one

1504
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:57,759
Speaker 1: on Billboard, it's number one, and my book cares anymore.

1505
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:01,720
Speaker 1: Welcome back to I'm not a nostalgic guy, Bob. I

1506
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:06,040
Speaker 1: don't live in the past. I've you know, it's nice,

1507
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, once a year to listen to a Springsteen record,

1508
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:13,360
Speaker 1: and remember high school, but it's pretty meaningless to me

1509
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:17,679
Speaker 1: in my life. I really want to I really want

1510
01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 1: to make sure that you know, I really get excited

1511
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:24,320
Speaker 1: about what music can do to people going forward, and

1512
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 1: I think, um, we have the real estate to help

1513
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 1: with that. Okay, So let's just you've gone through the

1514
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:34,879
Speaker 1: process with your team of what you want the sound

1515
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:39,880
Speaker 1: to sound like. We know there's a very aggressive business.

1516
01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 1: There are people who are pitching you, etcetera. Once you've

1517
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:47,880
Speaker 1: locked in what the music should sound like, what are

1518
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,320
Speaker 1: the steps? Do you go to the usual suspects? Do

1519
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 1: you not contact anybody and ultimately is in the most

1520
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:56,679
Speaker 1: favored nations? Or do you pay more for one track

1521
01:30:56,720 --> 01:30:59,160
Speaker 1: as opposed to another. I mean, the people that know

1522
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 1: that we're looking at them are obviously the artists and

1523
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:05,960
Speaker 1: the labels and the publishers. I get great joy, um,

1524
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:09,639
Speaker 1: humbly speaking, when uh, we put in a license request

1525
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,960
Speaker 1: to a label, uh and they're looking it up and

1526
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 1: they say, we don't have this song yet in our system.

1527
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 1: I love that the band got it to us so

1528
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: early that they didn't hand it into the label yet.

1529
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:23,479
Speaker 1: I get tremendous joy out of that because we're so

1530
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 1: freaking early, um, and we all have to be really quiet,

1531
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:32,559
Speaker 1: and even the artists, nobody's really broken that code of

1532
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:35,600
Speaker 1: silence as far as I remember for years. You know,

1533
01:31:35,680 --> 01:31:37,760
Speaker 1: you'll know in July. If you're going to make it

1534
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 1: in a FEEFA that comes out in September, you'll know

1535
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:43,679
Speaker 1: in July. And we they're all on board with making

1536
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:45,960
Speaker 1: sure that nothing gets said in social media and it

1537
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:50,840
Speaker 1: stays quiet because they're a part of our launch. Uh M,

1538
01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:53,599
Speaker 1: A fan is not typical, you know, M fan. There

1539
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 1: there's certain licenses that are have valued more than others.

1540
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 1: You know, if I'm going to license uh um, a

1541
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 1: big artist who has a new material that we think

1542
01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 1: is going to blow up, and the value of that

1543
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:09,839
Speaker 1: is more than an artist that's putting out their first single.

1544
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:13,280
Speaker 1: You know, I think everybody pretty much agrees with that.

1545
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 1: I mean, um, I'm willing to pay if I support

1546
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:18,000
Speaker 1: a band this year and it blows up and next

1547
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:20,240
Speaker 1: year I want to put their single from their next album,

1548
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:22,120
Speaker 1: I'm certainly prepared to pay more for it because they

1549
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,719
Speaker 1: got bigger. Only once, by the way, in my twenty

1550
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:28,759
Speaker 1: years did I get was I told by a person

1551
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 1: in a label licensing department on a band that had

1552
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:34,479
Speaker 1: yet to put out even a record that I was

1553
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:37,240
Speaker 1: offering too little because it was going to be a hit.

1554
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:39,840
Speaker 1: I said, well, sorry, then I'll pass because I'm not

1555
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:46,439
Speaker 1: gonna pay you on futures. Um. But um, but let's

1556
01:32:46,439 --> 01:32:49,439
Speaker 1: do you watch it? How do you actually find it?

1557
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 1: Do you do it yourself? Do you have regular contacts?

1558
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:57,519
Speaker 1: Are you inundated with you know, whether it be tracks, text,

1559
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:03,080
Speaker 1: whatever people want to be in uh, inundated? Yes, Um,

1560
01:33:03,120 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 1: but that sometimes isn't what necessarily works. I think it

1561
01:33:08,400 --> 01:33:12,559
Speaker 1: is us being proactive, us getting out there. Um. Sabella

1562
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:15,320
Speaker 1: my team at the beginning of every year goes to Europe.

1563
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:19,040
Speaker 1: She literally goes to everyone in her network, which is

1564
01:33:19,080 --> 01:33:22,200
Speaker 1: pretty massive. What bands are going in the studio? When

1565
01:33:22,240 --> 01:33:24,160
Speaker 1: can I get in the studio to hear the tracks

1566
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:26,599
Speaker 1: they haven't recorded yet? Can I come to the studio

1567
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:29,040
Speaker 1: and hear the demos? You know, I think we are

1568
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:32,200
Speaker 1: out there. We're out there like crazy. Certainly you know,

1569
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 1: the pandemic stop that, let's get out there. It made

1570
01:33:35,479 --> 01:33:38,040
Speaker 1: it more challenging, so we had to rely on hopefully

1571
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:41,760
Speaker 1: security of you know, it being sent to us. Um.

1572
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:44,439
Speaker 1: But for the most part, we're out there. We don't

1573
01:33:44,479 --> 01:33:46,160
Speaker 1: wait for it to come to us. If I waited

1574
01:33:46,200 --> 01:33:47,680
Speaker 1: half the time for it to come to us, it

1575
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 1: would be in shrink wrapping and radio on radio stations

1576
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:55,360
Speaker 1: desks already. You know. Um, we need to be very proactive.

1577
01:33:55,400 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Um, if we sat down with my team

1578
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 1: for the most art for the most part, they could

1579
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:05,839
Speaker 1: tell you every artist that's writing and hoping and planning

1580
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:07,719
Speaker 1: to put a record out in the next year or two.

1581
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:10,760
Speaker 1: There are exceptions, of course, I'm not saying we know

1582
01:34:10,840 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 1: of you know, three million, you know, But where the trendsetters?

1583
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:17,680
Speaker 1: Who's the next generation of artists that we've been following?

1584
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:20,720
Speaker 1: Where they at? That's our responsibilities. I have a lead

1585
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: music supervisor, Sabel Pettis. She's amazing. She's been with me

1586
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 1: for twenty years. She comes from a and R at

1587
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 1: Warners before that, and her job, her job is a

1588
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:34,360
Speaker 1: strictly creative job. Where's every band at? Who do you

1589
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:37,479
Speaker 1: believe in? Where are the trends? Where they are they

1590
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:39,599
Speaker 1: writing right now? Have you heard it? Have you gotten

1591
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 1: on a plane to the studio where they will play

1592
01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:44,680
Speaker 1: it for her? You know, I have many many, um,

1593
01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:48,559
Speaker 1: fond memories of bands sitting down with a guitar or

1594
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:50,559
Speaker 1: something and saying, this is what the song is. We

1595
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 1: just wrote this, what do you think. My favorite story,

1596
01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:55,200
Speaker 1: which dates me for a second, is when the guys

1597
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:58,360
Speaker 1: at Green Day were in um Ocean Way in l

1598
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 1: A and UH asked us to come out to Ocean

1599
01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:04,639
Speaker 1: Way and they played us American Idiot and they said,

1600
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:07,320
Speaker 1: we're about to go in and record it. Rob Cavallo

1601
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:10,120
Speaker 1: was there and UH, this, when do we need to

1602
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:12,479
Speaker 1: finish it by to get it in Madden, and I went, oh, man,

1603
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 1: we have arrived and so um do we miss some things? Yes?

1604
01:35:21,160 --> 01:35:24,280
Speaker 1: But the beauty of the medium that I work in

1605
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:26,840
Speaker 1: is that if something comes, if it's not finished by

1606
01:35:26,840 --> 01:35:30,280
Speaker 1: the time we lock, I can add it to downloadable content.

1607
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:32,400
Speaker 1: In a month or two, I can always add it.

1608
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,640
Speaker 1: I can refresh it. As a matter of fact, we

1609
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:39,439
Speaker 1: just did you know the Ultimate FIFA Soundtrack. That's we

1610
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:41,560
Speaker 1: had a narrow down to thirty or forty songs of

1611
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:44,639
Speaker 1: the best songs to come from FIFA over the last

1612
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:47,920
Speaker 1: twenty years. We took a lot, We worked with Spotify,

1613
01:35:48,040 --> 01:35:51,200
Speaker 1: we looked at playlists, we talked to gamers, and we

1614
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:54,479
Speaker 1: came up with that playlist. It's just a list of songs,

1615
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:58,320
Speaker 1: but the fanaticism of getting in that on that list

1616
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 1: was mind blowing to me. But that didn't ship with

1617
01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:05,200
Speaker 1: the game. That ship this week when we give you

1618
01:36:05,240 --> 01:36:08,760
Speaker 1: a free downloadable World Cup portion of the game, and

1619
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:12,280
Speaker 1: now you get thirty or forty new songs, including Casabian,

1620
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:15,960
Speaker 1: including Blur song number two, which is now forever tied

1621
01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:19,640
Speaker 1: to the game of soccer. Um uh, so on and

1622
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 1: so on each The list is long, but so we

1623
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:26,320
Speaker 1: can always update, We can always take things out if

1624
01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:28,640
Speaker 1: we don't believe in something, but more importantly, we can

1625
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:33,160
Speaker 1: always add, which we do. Okay, this is the music

1626
01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:36,479
Speaker 1: business in general. People are on neither one side or

1627
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:40,240
Speaker 1: the other there the business or their creators. You talk

1628
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:43,919
Speaker 1: about writing cues, Tell us about that in your own

1629
01:36:44,080 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 1: musical creativity, writing cues um as in scores. Yes, okay, um, Well,

1630
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:57,519
Speaker 1: you know I when I was I know you didn't

1631
01:36:57,520 --> 01:36:59,360
Speaker 1: ask me, but I'm gonna answer it this way. When

1632
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:03,840
Speaker 1: I was for my mom put a guitar in my

1633
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:06,479
Speaker 1: hand because I asked for it. Uh. And when I

1634
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:10,040
Speaker 1: was seven, I guess she saw me doing some crazy

1635
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 1: things to some crazy songs. I would want to take

1636
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:17,160
Speaker 1: the horn parts from Chicago c t A. At the time,

1637
01:37:17,200 --> 01:37:20,760
Speaker 1: as you recall and rewrite them. I thought Terry cath

1638
01:37:20,880 --> 01:37:23,160
Speaker 1: was the greatest guitar player in her But I wanted

1639
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 1: to rewrite Robert Lamb's parts. I wanted to rewrite all

1640
01:37:26,160 --> 01:37:29,360
Speaker 1: of this stuff. I was seven. Probably sucked what I

1641
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:32,080
Speaker 1: was rewriting, but I wanted to do it. So she

1642
01:37:32,200 --> 01:37:34,960
Speaker 1: used to put me on a bus to Port Authority

1643
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:39,840
Speaker 1: at seven, by myself on the bus, sometimes by the way,

1644
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:41,560
Speaker 1: on a side. And it was Mark Shaman, who was

1645
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:43,640
Speaker 1: a couple of years older than me, who inevitably went

1646
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:47,479
Speaker 1: on to be becoming a massive composer and Broadway writer.

1647
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:51,320
Speaker 1: But we were going, we've we we've since reconnected. And um,

1648
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:54,240
Speaker 1: I used to go to Carnegie Hall and study with

1649
01:37:54,280 --> 01:37:57,000
Speaker 1: this guy who looked ancient to me. He actually was

1650
01:37:57,080 --> 01:38:00,880
Speaker 1: like and I was seven to me, he could have

1651
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:05,960
Speaker 1: been three thousand, and he was so old that he

1652
01:38:06,080 --> 01:38:09,280
Speaker 1: was the composer to the one of the first silent

1653
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:13,599
Speaker 1: films with score, called The Nook of the North Okay Classic.

1654
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:19,519
Speaker 1: And um, he taught me, at seven, nine, ten years old,

1655
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:23,600
Speaker 1: how to rewrite these cues and how to begin to

1656
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:27,200
Speaker 1: write for picture. What does this scene looks like? The

1657
01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:30,240
Speaker 1: scene looks like this. The actors are doing this, the

1658
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:35,080
Speaker 1: script does this? Where does silence serve? Where does music serve?

1659
01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 1: Even better? How do you create the emotion and the

1660
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:42,440
Speaker 1: person in the chair in the theater? What are your options?

1661
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:47,559
Speaker 1: What is the orchestration, the instrumentation. It was unbelievable to

1662
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:54,320
Speaker 1: me that you could control the emotional experience with one

1663
01:38:54,360 --> 01:39:00,679
Speaker 1: minute of music. And I also learned when I lied

1664
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 1: to my Jewish grandmother at seventeen, and she said, hey,

1665
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:07,559
Speaker 1: that's a nice hobby you have, but in our family

1666
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:11,000
Speaker 1: the choices. You can become a doctor, you can become

1667
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:14,200
Speaker 1: a lawyer, or god forbid, a dentist. That was a quote,

1668
01:39:14,200 --> 01:39:17,760
Speaker 1: and I felt bad because my dad was a dentist. Um.

1669
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:21,360
Speaker 1: I lied, and I went to school to study music. Um.

1670
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:24,400
Speaker 1: But the one thing I learned was I'm good, but

1671
01:39:24,439 --> 01:39:26,519
Speaker 1: I'm much better if I hire other people to do it.

1672
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:30,840
Speaker 1: I can contribute, but I'm gonna hire Hans Zimmer to

1673
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:32,880
Speaker 1: write it, but I have enough knowledge to be able

1674
01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:39,679
Speaker 1: to communicate with him on musicians terms. So to write

1675
01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 1: a queue, and to write a queue in an interactive format,

1676
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:48,280
Speaker 1: you're not talking about what's happening on the screen. You're

1677
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:52,759
Speaker 1: talking about all of the possibilities. Are you going left?

1678
01:39:52,880 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 1: Are you going right? Are you running and falling under

1679
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:58,080
Speaker 1: the log and the bad guy gets you, or you

1680
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:00,880
Speaker 1: jumping over the log and you made it or the

1681
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 1: other ten thousand or ten million possibilities? How are you

1682
01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:09,720
Speaker 1: writing that in one minute? What is the objective of

1683
01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:12,880
Speaker 1: the music? Is the is the objective to sit above

1684
01:40:13,479 --> 01:40:16,759
Speaker 1: and to have a you know, as I mentioned before,

1685
01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:20,000
Speaker 1: we won the war, so bring on the timpany that

1686
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:22,760
Speaker 1: sits above it? Or is to be so subtle that

1687
01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:25,920
Speaker 1: you don't even know the music is there. It's there,

1688
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:29,840
Speaker 1: but it's you're two in the scene. So the but

1689
01:40:29,880 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 1: you're feeling anger or anxiety or fear or joy, and

1690
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:39,479
Speaker 1: then you probably don't even realize what's doing. That is

1691
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:43,559
Speaker 1: not what's happening on the screen. It's when that music

1692
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:46,400
Speaker 1: gets in your in your soul. Because I don't believe

1693
01:40:46,439 --> 01:40:49,000
Speaker 1: that music is meant to be or written to be heard.

1694
01:40:49,040 --> 01:40:51,160
Speaker 1: I believe music is written and meant to be felt.

1695
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:59,160
Speaker 1: So a composer, if guided well and as a collaborative person,

1696
01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:04,720
Speaker 1: can find that emotion and not even rely what's going

1697
01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 1: on in the screen. What happens if you get up

1698
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:09,360
Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom and the screen, but you

1699
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:12,960
Speaker 1: hear the music, you're still feeling, oh my god, I

1700
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:15,280
Speaker 1: gotta get back, I gotta get back, I gotta get

1701
01:41:15,320 --> 01:41:18,120
Speaker 1: back to the couch. What's going on the screen is

1702
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:21,479
Speaker 1: not what's doing that. What's going on in your ear,

1703
01:41:21,560 --> 01:41:26,320
Speaker 1: to your heart, your soul. So doing that in one

1704
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 1: minute or sometimes twenty second moments is incredibly challenging. Now,

1705
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:34,160
Speaker 1: the beauty of gaming is that you're not writing one

1706
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 1: continuous queue. You're writing pieces that technology can allow it

1707
01:41:39,080 --> 01:41:43,600
Speaker 1: to go left or right. So if you're running in

1708
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:46,479
Speaker 1: a horror film running and you trip over the log,

1709
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:49,760
Speaker 1: the trigger in the technology is triggering that music to

1710
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:52,040
Speaker 1: do one thing. But if you make it over the log,

1711
01:41:52,479 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 1: it knows you did it. So now the music is

1712
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:58,080
Speaker 1: doing something else. So it really is interactive with your experience.

1713
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:02,920
Speaker 1: It's not tethered to that screen. Um, and it's pretty.

1714
01:42:03,120 --> 01:42:08,000
Speaker 1: And those are just one example. You know, years ago,

1715
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:10,760
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, maybe we did the Lord of the

1716
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:13,880
Speaker 1: Rings games and I thought, you know, we were going

1717
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:16,920
Speaker 1: to hire a composer and I could use the music

1718
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:21,439
Speaker 1: from the films, which uh, we did. Um, but I

1719
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:23,920
Speaker 1: had a moment where I wanted to hire Jimmy Page.

1720
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:28,439
Speaker 1: I thought, anybody who listens to Zeppelin like me, knows

1721
01:42:28,760 --> 01:42:32,400
Speaker 1: that Lord of the Rings was a part of this mindset. Okay,

1722
01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:35,639
Speaker 1: I mean it was there. And if you ask any

1723
01:42:35,640 --> 01:42:37,960
Speaker 1: of guys in Laura in in Zeppelin, they'll tell you

1724
01:42:38,200 --> 01:42:41,760
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings right, the books in particular, you know,

1725
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:45,200
Speaker 1: because it's previous to the films. And so I reached

1726
01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:48,479
Speaker 1: out at the time to David Dorne. I know you

1727
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:53,479
Speaker 1: probably know, Um, we understand by the way runs maps

1728
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 1: now for Apples. Yes, he's in Maps. Yeah, I need

1729
01:42:57,880 --> 01:42:59,639
Speaker 1: to call him and tell him I'm lost. I think

1730
01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:02,640
Speaker 1: I just need to have that moment with him. Um.

1731
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:04,799
Speaker 1: But anyway, I reached out to him, and everybody believed.

1732
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:07,280
Speaker 1: Everybody agreed. I said, let me license a bunch of

1733
01:43:07,360 --> 01:43:10,679
Speaker 1: Zeppelin tunes and have Jimmy right, that's Lord of the Rings.

1734
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:13,200
Speaker 1: That's how the next generation should should learn Lord of

1735
01:43:13,240 --> 01:43:16,000
Speaker 1: the Rings. So of course we went to the lawyers,

1736
01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:20,320
Speaker 1: whoever they may have been, and they said, well, with

1737
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:23,080
Speaker 1: the tunes, with the Zeppelin tunes, we didn't even get

1738
01:43:23,080 --> 01:43:27,120
Speaker 1: to money. But like we realize it has to mix

1739
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:31,320
Speaker 1: itself during game play, so we need to hear the possibilities,

1740
01:43:31,360 --> 01:43:34,040
Speaker 1: like what are the three or four ten mixes that

1741
01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:36,960
Speaker 1: the engine is going to create? And I said, I

1742
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 1: can't play you that because it would be millions. I

1743
01:43:41,400 --> 01:43:44,160
Speaker 1: don't know what the computer you know that, sorry, the

1744
01:43:44,160 --> 01:43:47,720
Speaker 1: technology might change, you know, the base might go here

1745
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:50,920
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Page's guitar Michael here, and Robert Plant's voice

1746
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:53,080
Speaker 1: might soar and stay in a note. I don't know.

1747
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:56,160
Speaker 1: It depends what the players doing. And at the time

1748
01:43:56,200 --> 01:43:58,240
Speaker 1: they couldn't. I didn't do the deal. They couldn't wrap

1749
01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:00,800
Speaker 1: their heads around it. I couldn't get approval on every

1750
01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:04,840
Speaker 1: single mix because the number was infinity. I still think

1751
01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:07,040
Speaker 1: it's the most badass idea and I wish I could

1752
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 1: still do it, you know. Um. So that's to me

1753
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:16,400
Speaker 1: about writing a queue. It's um. It's not writing something

1754
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:20,760
Speaker 1: to be listened to like a record many times, it's

1755
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:26,400
Speaker 1: something to be written to be felt. And if you

1756
01:44:26,479 --> 01:44:29,120
Speaker 1: don't understand that, and I guarantee you knowing you you do.

1757
01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:33,840
Speaker 1: But if you don't understand that, think about, for instance,

1758
01:44:34,280 --> 01:44:37,639
Speaker 1: what John Williams Scores and Star Wars did to all

1759
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:42,040
Speaker 1: of us back in the seventies. Think about how we felt.

1760
01:44:42,720 --> 01:44:46,280
Speaker 1: Think about when we were soaring into the world of

1761
01:44:46,360 --> 01:44:51,639
Speaker 1: Star Wars and that very Stravinsky classical type of score,

1762
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:55,240
Speaker 1: which was not what we were listening to on w

1763
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:58,240
Speaker 1: an E W where I was from, we were listening,

1764
01:44:58,240 --> 01:45:01,439
Speaker 1: we were listening to rock music. But that score made

1765
01:45:01,439 --> 01:45:04,880
Speaker 1: me feel a certain way. It made me feel my

1766
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:09,080
Speaker 1: chest puffed out. I felt bigger than life. I didn't

1767
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:11,240
Speaker 1: listen to it like I listened to a pop song

1768
01:45:11,360 --> 01:45:15,240
Speaker 1: and w ABC in New York that was a different experience.

1769
01:45:16,520 --> 01:45:20,479
Speaker 1: I listened to it like with confidence. That's what we

1770
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:32,000
Speaker 1: have to get. Okay, you depict a very full life.

1771
01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:35,400
Speaker 1: We're talking to you, just one composer every day and

1772
01:45:35,439 --> 01:45:39,839
Speaker 1: you have multiple games. You're talking about travel. What degree

1773
01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:44,599
Speaker 1: did this contribute to your divorce? Wow? What an amazing question,

1774
01:45:45,120 --> 01:45:48,800
Speaker 1: all of it, all of it. Listen, I married the

1775
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:50,640
Speaker 1: wrong person, and I want my kids to hear me

1776
01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:53,040
Speaker 1: say that, because that would hurt them. But that didn't help.

1777
01:45:53,640 --> 01:45:57,280
Speaker 1: But you know, I ended up marrying this job, and

1778
01:45:57,320 --> 01:46:00,920
Speaker 1: I love this job and I have no regrets about that.

1779
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:04,080
Speaker 1: I devoted my life to this job because I believed

1780
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:06,840
Speaker 1: in it. I didn't do that when I worked at

1781
01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:11,720
Speaker 1: Capitol Records. The Andy Slater days of Capitol Records were

1782
01:46:11,760 --> 01:46:17,559
Speaker 1: not worth marrying, but being in the next being a

1783
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:22,200
Speaker 1: part of the evolution of entertainment and knowing I could

1784
01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:26,040
Speaker 1: use that real estate to do what I always like

1785
01:46:26,120 --> 01:46:29,320
Speaker 1: to do since I was fourteen years old, play really

1786
01:46:29,320 --> 01:46:31,439
Speaker 1: cool ship for a lot of people and saying, what

1787
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:34,800
Speaker 1: do you think I'll never forget playing Houses of the

1788
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:38,759
Speaker 1: Holy from a next door neighbor. Holy crap, are you kidding?

1789
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:42,320
Speaker 1: Playing again? I still do that. My wife, I'm remarried,

1790
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:44,400
Speaker 1: always says, my god, you act like a fourteen year old,

1791
01:46:44,400 --> 01:46:45,720
Speaker 1: and I go, yeah, And I've been able to make

1792
01:46:45,720 --> 01:46:48,800
Speaker 1: a living out of that. I don't think she means

1793
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:50,719
Speaker 1: that when she says that, I think she means it differently,

1794
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:54,280
Speaker 1: is my point. But you know it contributed to my divorce.

1795
01:46:54,280 --> 01:46:56,599
Speaker 1: I'm not going to avoid your question. It contributed to it.

1796
01:46:56,800 --> 01:47:00,680
Speaker 1: I traveled a lot. I still do um and I

1797
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:03,680
Speaker 1: missed a lot, and I would try to come home

1798
01:47:03,720 --> 01:47:05,880
Speaker 1: a lot. I would go to London to work and

1799
01:47:05,920 --> 01:47:07,799
Speaker 1: then come home in the weekend to see my son's

1800
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:10,439
Speaker 1: baseball game, and then go back the next day to London.

1801
01:47:11,640 --> 01:47:14,160
Speaker 1: But you can't you can't do that forever, so it

1802
01:47:14,240 --> 01:47:22,480
Speaker 1: didn't contribute to my divorce significantly. Um and um, it's okay,

1803
01:47:22,720 --> 01:47:27,679
Speaker 1: and your present wife accepts that your job is number one. Well,

1804
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:30,880
Speaker 1: my present wife. From the first day I met her,

1805
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:32,920
Speaker 1: I found out that Zeppelin was her favorite band of

1806
01:47:32,920 --> 01:47:37,320
Speaker 1: all time, so I was ten steps ahead. UM uh yeah,

1807
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:39,760
Speaker 1: of course, you know, of course, and we listen, we're

1808
01:47:39,800 --> 01:47:43,639
Speaker 1: adults now, I what at tangent I'm about to go on.

1809
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:47,280
Speaker 1: I don't understand why people get married now that I'm

1810
01:47:47,320 --> 01:47:50,519
Speaker 1: an adult in their twenties and early thirties. I do

1811
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:52,880
Speaker 1: not believe in it. I believe the best time to

1812
01:47:52,920 --> 01:47:55,400
Speaker 1: get married, if you do get married, is as an adult.

1813
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:59,000
Speaker 1: Get married in your forties, when you're grounded, when you

1814
01:47:59,040 --> 01:48:02,120
Speaker 1: know what your life is, when the expectations of each

1815
01:48:02,120 --> 01:48:06,400
Speaker 1: other are set. You know. Um, my growth took me

1816
01:48:06,479 --> 01:48:09,720
Speaker 1: one way and my ex wife's growth took her another way.

1817
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:12,400
Speaker 1: So I am very fortunate that I found the most

1818
01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:17,160
Speaker 1: amazing person on earth who loves what I do, appreciates

1819
01:48:17,200 --> 01:48:20,080
Speaker 1: what I do, by the way, and all my friends

1820
01:48:20,120 --> 01:48:23,720
Speaker 1: like Hans Zimmer and they love her. I don't hold

1821
01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:26,080
Speaker 1: her back from that. She's a part of it. She

1822
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:28,360
Speaker 1: comes to the studio all the time, pops in. My God,

1823
01:48:28,400 --> 01:48:30,719
Speaker 1: I can't get her away from half the composer she loved.

1824
01:48:30,840 --> 01:48:33,240
Speaker 1: Her dad was a musician. He was a recording artist

1825
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:38,280
Speaker 1: for him c a way back in the day. You know. Um,

1826
01:48:38,320 --> 01:48:40,639
Speaker 1: So she understands. She comes from the world of music

1827
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:45,920
Speaker 1: her parents. Um. And I think she sees the excitement

1828
01:48:46,040 --> 01:48:48,600
Speaker 1: that I have when I'm working on a score. She

1829
01:48:48,720 --> 01:48:52,040
Speaker 1: understands the isolation that I have to go through to

1830
01:48:52,080 --> 01:48:59,759
Speaker 1: get there. Um. She understands why you know, I suddenly

1831
01:48:59,800 --> 01:49:02,320
Speaker 1: just added to move to Nashville, And she said, Okay,

1832
01:49:02,320 --> 01:49:05,080
Speaker 1: she's a California board and raised person. Um. But said,

1833
01:49:05,160 --> 01:49:09,519
Speaker 1: let's go And um, so you have to have somebody

1834
01:49:09,520 --> 01:49:11,840
Speaker 1: who's on board. But I don't think that can happen

1835
01:49:11,880 --> 01:49:13,439
Speaker 1: when you're in your twenties, because you don't know when

1836
01:49:13,439 --> 01:49:15,280
Speaker 1: your twenties and know in your twenties where you're gonna

1837
01:49:15,280 --> 01:49:17,320
Speaker 1: be in your forties and your fifties. You just don't know.

1838
01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:20,960
Speaker 1: And sorry, you have to have somebody who goes along

1839
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:24,840
Speaker 1: for the ride. Okay, let's go back to Nashville. At

1840
01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:27,680
Speaker 1: the top, you talked about being a Jew in Nashville.

1841
01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 1: We have the whole Kanye self immolation. We have Dave

1842
01:49:34,280 --> 01:49:39,519
Speaker 1: Chappelle talking about Jews on Saturday Night Live. We're recording.

1843
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:42,280
Speaker 1: This is only a couple of days ago, and you

1844
01:49:42,320 --> 01:49:45,759
Speaker 1: wrote a piece about this, So give me your take.

1845
01:49:46,200 --> 01:49:48,360
Speaker 1: I could go deeper, but you know exactly what I'm

1846
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:54,840
Speaker 1: talking about, Ah, Dave Chappelle, the normalization of anti Semitism,

1847
01:49:54,880 --> 01:50:00,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Sarcasm by the way, UM, let's

1848
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:06,280
Speaker 1: since I'm not a religious person. Um, most Jewish people

1849
01:50:06,360 --> 01:50:12,759
Speaker 1: I know are not. But culturally we are bound food

1850
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:18,519
Speaker 1: where we're from, the way we talk, the way we think.

1851
01:50:19,600 --> 01:50:23,240
Speaker 1: You know, we're bound together through this culture. There's only

1852
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:29,960
Speaker 1: but fourteen million of us on the planet. Um. But

1853
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:34,759
Speaker 1: shocking news anti Semitism. There's nothing new. It's been around forever,

1854
01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:40,799
Speaker 1: thousands of years. UM. Every hundred years, history repeats itself.

1855
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:45,720
Speaker 1: Look at the Spanish Inquisition, look at the programs we

1856
01:50:45,760 --> 01:50:47,599
Speaker 1: can keep going. When I did that one of those

1857
01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:50,280
Speaker 1: twenty three and me things was unbelievable. It was a

1858
01:50:50,320 --> 01:50:54,880
Speaker 1: map from Tunisia and Morocco to Portugal, to Spain, to

1859
01:50:54,960 --> 01:50:58,000
Speaker 1: France to Italy, belong all the way across to Croatia,

1860
01:50:58,439 --> 01:51:04,559
Speaker 1: straight up through you know, Austria, Hungary, Germany, Poland straight

1861
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:07,920
Speaker 1: up to Finland which used to be Russia. That's a

1862
01:51:08,000 --> 01:51:13,439
Speaker 1: map of people fleeing, you know. Yeah, my kids said,

1863
01:51:13,479 --> 01:51:16,120
Speaker 1: oh my god, are we French? Well we probably were

1864
01:51:16,400 --> 01:51:18,559
Speaker 1: for twenty years or a hundred years. I have no

1865
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:22,439
Speaker 1: freaking idea. So here we are again. Did we think

1866
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:27,760
Speaker 1: that in ninety three through that that was the end

1867
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:33,400
Speaker 1: of it? No way. So here we are with the

1868
01:51:33,520 --> 01:51:42,200
Speaker 1: current normalization of anti Semitism, the hatred that spews from

1869
01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:50,360
Speaker 1: the mouths of celebrities, politicians and just regular people. And

1870
01:51:50,439 --> 01:51:52,680
Speaker 1: I never thought, probably none of us ever thought in

1871
01:51:52,840 --> 01:51:56,559
Speaker 1: our lifetimes that we would be sitting here defending it

1872
01:51:57,160 --> 01:52:01,120
Speaker 1: like our relatives. Did you know we're more than a

1873
01:52:01,200 --> 01:52:06,040
Speaker 1: generation or two since World War Two. I've got a huge, wonderful,

1874
01:52:06,080 --> 01:52:10,120
Speaker 1: loving family in Israel. Secular family lives in Tel Aviv.

1875
01:52:11,720 --> 01:52:14,719
Speaker 1: I'm a liberal Zionist. None of us are bb people.

1876
01:52:15,280 --> 01:52:18,479
Speaker 1: We don't believe in settlements, we're not right wingers, were

1877
01:52:18,520 --> 01:52:20,920
Speaker 1: not religious. We don't spit it people when they walk

1878
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:24,599
Speaker 1: down the streets. By the way, that's the majority of

1879
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:28,960
Speaker 1: tel Aviv. We believe in rights. We believe in gay rights,

1880
01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:31,200
Speaker 1: we believe in equal women rights. We believe in equal

1881
01:52:31,320 --> 01:52:36,240
Speaker 1: rights for Arabs and everyone. Um, and here we are

1882
01:52:36,280 --> 01:52:42,880
Speaker 1: being hated again. We are not Israeli politics. I am

1883
01:52:42,920 --> 01:52:48,240
Speaker 1: not American politics. Tom York said it so well. I

1884
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:51,200
Speaker 1: started an organization ten years ago with David Renzer called

1885
01:52:51,240 --> 01:52:54,720
Speaker 1: Creative Community for Peace that was about using music to

1886
01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:58,519
Speaker 1: build bridges, not through boycott, where you use music to

1887
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:00,880
Speaker 1: bring people apart. I and the one thing that a

1888
01:53:00,920 --> 01:53:04,320
Speaker 1: Palestinian and an Israeli kid might have in common is Rihanna.

1889
01:53:04,439 --> 01:53:08,120
Speaker 1: For God's sake, Let's try to get bands to go

1890
01:53:08,240 --> 01:53:11,880
Speaker 1: to Tel Aviv and then go somewhere in the Arab world.

1891
01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:15,360
Speaker 1: Let's try to have music be the bridge. Elton John

1892
01:53:15,400 --> 01:53:18,960
Speaker 1: gets that. Lots of artists gets that, gets that, Lady

1893
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:25,400
Speaker 1: Gaga gets that, Donna gets that. The list goes on. Um.

1894
01:53:25,439 --> 01:53:30,559
Speaker 1: I was. I felt this rise in anti Semitism, not

1895
01:53:30,760 --> 01:53:33,759
Speaker 1: just by through the organization, the nonprofit that I started

1896
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:38,920
Speaker 1: with David, But I see the stats. I see what's

1897
01:53:38,920 --> 01:53:42,160
Speaker 1: happened in the last two three years. I heard Jews

1898
01:53:42,160 --> 01:53:45,760
Speaker 1: will not replace us, just like you heard it. They

1899
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:51,880
Speaker 1: were taking down rightly so, taking down Confederate statues, and

1900
01:53:51,880 --> 01:53:58,000
Speaker 1: they were marching, yelling, about Jews. So you see this,

1901
01:53:59,320 --> 01:54:03,120
Speaker 1: I asked the question, you know, a couple of years ago,

1902
01:54:03,160 --> 01:54:06,320
Speaker 1: when did we as Jewish people stop being a minority?

1903
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:09,720
Speaker 1: Because we are a minority. I'm actually in the middle

1904
01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:12,759
Speaker 1: of reading a book. When did Jewish people start becoming white?

1905
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:17,040
Speaker 1: Because are we really white? You know? Sure? Okay, you

1906
01:54:17,160 --> 01:54:19,200
Speaker 1: we can we we we can get away with it.

1907
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:24,240
Speaker 1: But remember that map I told you Tunisia, Morocco, all

1908
01:54:24,280 --> 01:54:26,559
Speaker 1: that stuff. I bet you I had a lot of

1909
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:29,880
Speaker 1: relatives that didn't have this skin color. And then if

1910
01:54:29,880 --> 01:54:32,080
Speaker 1: you trace it back two thousand years, I guarantee you

1911
01:54:32,120 --> 01:54:35,560
Speaker 1: I had relatives that didn't have a skin color. So

1912
01:54:35,960 --> 01:54:39,160
Speaker 1: why are we suddenly hated again? Or have we just

1913
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:41,880
Speaker 1: always been hated and it's just coming out? I said, yes,

1914
01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get political here. You know. One of the

1915
01:54:44,240 --> 01:54:48,840
Speaker 1: things that Trump did was when I lived in New York.

1916
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:51,600
Speaker 1: Remember um, when we lived in New York, so many

1917
01:54:51,640 --> 01:54:53,560
Speaker 1: of us, and we come home at night after a

1918
01:54:53,640 --> 01:54:55,200
Speaker 1: day at work, and we turn into lights and all

1919
01:54:55,200 --> 01:55:01,120
Speaker 1: the cockroaches ran back in the cabinets. So Trump, by

1920
01:55:01,240 --> 01:55:07,240
Speaker 1: not by by supporting the Jews, will not replace us

1921
01:55:07,280 --> 01:55:11,840
Speaker 1: group in Charlottesville gave permission for the cabin for the

1922
01:55:11,880 --> 01:55:14,680
Speaker 1: cockroaches to stay out and not have to run back

1923
01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:18,800
Speaker 1: in the cabinet. My point is the cockroaches were always there.

1924
01:55:18,920 --> 01:55:21,960
Speaker 1: This is a racist country. Come on, look at the

1925
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:25,800
Speaker 1: history of this country. It's a racist country. So anyway

1926
01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:39,160
Speaker 1: to answer your question, Pittsburgh synagogues shootings, Kanye West, he don't.

1927
01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:43,560
Speaker 1: Don't people who have voices and celebrity have some level

1928
01:55:43,600 --> 01:55:48,680
Speaker 1: of responsibility, you know, for him to say death not

1929
01:55:48,840 --> 01:55:58,120
Speaker 1: death death, con don't Kanye is meaningless. It's what he

1930
01:55:58,240 --> 01:56:03,040
Speaker 1: has create, helped to create. Kanye didn't invent anti Semitism,

1931
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:06,520
Speaker 1: but he furthered it along because of those folks that

1932
01:56:06,600 --> 01:56:09,920
Speaker 1: dropped all those pamphlets in Los Angeles and stood on

1933
01:56:09,960 --> 01:56:12,040
Speaker 1: the bridges and the people that stood on the bridges

1934
01:56:12,120 --> 01:56:15,800
Speaker 1: with of Jacksonville with the signs that said Kanye is right.

1935
01:56:17,240 --> 01:56:19,680
Speaker 1: And then Dave Chappelle what he did on Saturday. I'm

1936
01:56:19,720 --> 01:56:22,480
Speaker 1: a fan of Dave Chappelle. I believe, you know, I

1937
01:56:22,480 --> 01:56:29,960
Speaker 1: could believe in complete free speech, but don't normalize hatred.

1938
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 1: I'm very concerned, deeply, deeply, deeply concerned about the relationship

1939
01:56:35,400 --> 01:56:38,800
Speaker 1: between the Jewish community and the Black community. We grew

1940
01:56:38,920 --> 01:56:43,760
Speaker 1: up arm in arm. Literally, my best friends were Jewish

1941
01:56:43,800 --> 01:56:47,000
Speaker 1: and they were Black. There was this commonality between us.

1942
01:56:47,640 --> 01:56:49,600
Speaker 1: We felt we had been put through hell in our

1943
01:56:49,800 --> 01:56:57,280
Speaker 1: histories and we're survivors, and yet people are I don't

1944
01:56:57,320 --> 01:56:59,360
Speaker 1: like what I see in the last couple of years,

1945
01:56:59,400 --> 01:57:03,880
Speaker 1: the riff between these communities that should be there. Yeah,

1946
01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:06,560
Speaker 1: I mean, sure we know Jews were there when Martin

1947
01:57:06,600 --> 01:57:09,160
Speaker 1: Luther King crossed the bridge. I get it, and but

1948
01:57:09,200 --> 01:57:13,600
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the relationship is so

1949
01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:20,959
Speaker 1: deeply important for both communities, brotherhood and sisterhood, and it's damaged.

1950
01:57:22,520 --> 01:57:25,320
Speaker 1: And I'm very concerned about that. To be honest with you,

1951
01:57:26,440 --> 01:57:29,560
Speaker 1: I would expect that from rednecks living somewhere in this

1952
01:57:29,640 --> 01:57:33,240
Speaker 1: country or other whatever the equivalent is in Europe, people

1953
01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:37,360
Speaker 1: who are ignorant and poorly informed. And I think that

1954
01:57:37,560 --> 01:57:40,880
Speaker 1: Jews run this or Jews run that. I haven't gotten

1955
01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:43,600
Speaker 1: a call, by the way, if there is a conspiracy conspiracy.

1956
01:57:43,640 --> 01:57:46,240
Speaker 1: Nobody called me about running a bank or running I mean,

1957
01:57:46,320 --> 01:57:50,960
Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. But I'm mostly and deeply concerned about the

1958
01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:54,920
Speaker 1: riff between the Jewish and the Black community. Additionally, and

1959
01:57:54,960 --> 01:57:57,280
Speaker 1: I saw this has come up lately, this is not

1960
01:57:57,360 --> 01:58:00,440
Speaker 1: original thought. But one of the things is that Dave

1961
01:58:00,520 --> 01:58:03,200
Speaker 1: Chappelle said that really deeply offended me, was using the

1962
01:58:03,320 --> 01:58:09,200
Speaker 1: term jew versus Jewish. This is an original thought to me.

1963
01:58:09,240 --> 01:58:11,920
Speaker 1: I think Michael Rappaport or somebody said this recently. But

1964
01:58:12,760 --> 01:58:15,840
Speaker 1: if you're Jewish, you can refer to me as a

1965
01:58:15,960 --> 01:58:19,560
Speaker 1: jew um. But if you're not, we are a part

1966
01:58:19,600 --> 01:58:23,520
Speaker 1: of a Jewish community. It is condescending. I'm saying this

1967
01:58:23,640 --> 01:58:28,720
Speaker 1: for anybody who will listen to me hear me. It's condescending,

1968
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:33,720
Speaker 1: it's degrading. And I do not believe somebody says the

1969
01:58:33,840 --> 01:58:41,600
Speaker 1: Jews says that naively without meaning some level of anger

1970
01:58:41,720 --> 01:58:46,040
Speaker 1: anti Semitism attached to it. I think, you know, we

1971
01:58:46,120 --> 01:58:49,560
Speaker 1: deserve to take that phrase back. We really do, and

1972
01:58:49,600 --> 01:58:51,840
Speaker 1: I think we need to be loud now. The one

1973
01:58:51,880 --> 01:58:56,120
Speaker 1: thing that has changed in the last hundred years is

1974
01:58:56,160 --> 01:59:00,320
Speaker 1: that we have the ability to not just be out,

1975
01:59:03,400 --> 01:59:06,320
Speaker 1: but we have. We didn't have Israel, and again, remember

1976
01:59:06,320 --> 01:59:09,680
Speaker 1: where I started here. I'm a liberal Zionist, but my

1977
01:59:09,880 --> 01:59:15,760
Speaker 1: family in ninety one didn't have an army, and for that,

1978
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm really proud of Israel. I do not like a

1979
01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:21,280
Speaker 1: lot of things the government does. I don't like a

1980
01:59:21,280 --> 01:59:24,040
Speaker 1: lot of things the American government does. Trust me, I'm

1981
01:59:24,040 --> 01:59:29,800
Speaker 1: a bleeding liberal. But what's going on? A friend of mine,

1982
01:59:29,800 --> 01:59:32,640
Speaker 1: who is the director of Creative Community for Peace, said

1983
01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:36,080
Speaker 1: it really well to me recently. Suddenly, in the last

1984
01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:38,360
Speaker 1: couple of years, Jews are getting squeeted out, squeezed out

1985
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:42,240
Speaker 1: from the extreme right and the extreme left. When did

1986
01:59:42,360 --> 01:59:45,120
Speaker 1: Berkeley or U see I I just came from Irvine.

1987
01:59:45,880 --> 01:59:49,480
Speaker 1: Suddenly that's a hotbed of anti Semitism. So now we've

1988
01:59:49,520 --> 01:59:54,800
Speaker 1: got both sides, so we better do something about this.

1989
01:59:55,120 --> 01:59:59,960
Speaker 1: We gotter be loud. Guess what, everyone. We don't control Hollywood,

1990
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:02,600
Speaker 1: guess whatever you and we don't control all the things

1991
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:06,680
Speaker 1: that they say we control. We're smart. We're smart because

1992
02:00:06,720 --> 02:00:11,160
Speaker 1: our parents believed in education. That's why we're smart. That's

1993
02:00:11,160 --> 02:00:15,080
Speaker 1: why doctors are Jewish, doctors can be Indian, doctors can

1994
02:00:15,120 --> 02:00:18,360
Speaker 1: be Asian doctors cannot be in some of those. But

1995
02:00:18,440 --> 02:00:22,440
Speaker 1: our parents pushed on us what their parents weren't able

1996
02:00:22,440 --> 02:00:28,160
Speaker 1: to do. Education, Work your ass off, sleep as little

1997
02:00:28,160 --> 02:00:32,920
Speaker 1: as you can. That's why some of us might be successful.

1998
02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:36,880
Speaker 1: Not all of us are successful. You know, we're a

1999
02:00:36,920 --> 02:00:41,040
Speaker 1: part of the fabric of this world, and I can't

2000
02:00:41,080 --> 02:00:44,960
Speaker 1: imagine that we're gonna let anti Semitism rise to the

2001
02:00:45,040 --> 02:00:48,120
Speaker 1: heights again in this century as it did in the

2002
02:00:48,200 --> 02:00:50,440
Speaker 1: last and the one before that and the one before that.

2003
02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:56,720
Speaker 1: So Kanye West started a load of ship, you know,

2004
02:00:57,280 --> 02:01:05,400
Speaker 1: just malignant stupidity. I understand if he has mental illness,

2005
02:01:06,160 --> 02:01:10,080
Speaker 1: but that's not an excuse right now, because he has influence,

2006
02:01:11,680 --> 02:01:18,240
Speaker 1: significant influence, as do many other people right now. Marjorie

2007
02:01:18,320 --> 02:01:23,280
Speaker 1: Taylor Green, are you kidding me? This is one of

2008
02:01:23,320 --> 02:01:26,360
Speaker 1: the reasons why anti Semitary people really believe that we

2009
02:01:26,400 --> 02:01:30,720
Speaker 1: had lasers. I'm still waiting for a jet pack, God

2010
02:01:30,800 --> 02:01:35,040
Speaker 1: damn it to get me across town a laser. It's

2011
02:01:35,080 --> 02:01:42,440
Speaker 1: amazing how gullible, ignorant, and hateful so many people are.

2012
02:01:43,200 --> 02:01:45,800
Speaker 1: So I want to be very vocal about it. I

2013
02:01:45,800 --> 02:01:50,080
Speaker 1: don't want to be one of these complacent American Jewish people,

2014
02:01:51,280 --> 02:01:56,240
Speaker 1: just like the German complacent Jewish people of two where

2015
02:01:56,280 --> 02:01:59,080
Speaker 1: they were more proud to be German than they were

2016
02:01:59,120 --> 02:02:05,920
Speaker 1: to be Jewish. That didn't get them far. So I'm angry,

2017
02:02:07,560 --> 02:02:11,600
Speaker 1: angry in a good way, and I don't know, you know,

2018
02:02:11,840 --> 02:02:16,720
Speaker 1: I had a experience in Nashville where I've never had

2019
02:02:17,440 --> 02:02:22,240
Speaker 1: poor experiences with anything, you know, anti Semitic wise, I

2020
02:02:22,280 --> 02:02:25,200
Speaker 1: got thrown out of an uber car in June or

2021
02:02:25,240 --> 02:02:27,480
Speaker 1: July because I was talking to our head of Swedish

2022
02:02:27,520 --> 02:02:30,840
Speaker 1: studios on non Jew by the way, I can say

2023
02:02:30,920 --> 02:02:34,000
Speaker 1: jee because I'm Jewish. And I guess the uber driver

2024
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:35,840
Speaker 1: heard me talking to him about how I was going

2025
02:02:35,840 --> 02:02:37,760
Speaker 1: to visit my family in Israel. And the guy pulled

2026
02:02:37,760 --> 02:02:39,680
Speaker 1: over and says, get out of the car, you fucking jew,

2027
02:02:39,720 --> 02:02:43,560
Speaker 1: you dirty jew. What I mean? First, for me, I've

2028
02:02:43,560 --> 02:02:47,880
Speaker 1: read about this, it's actually happening. And I said, excuse me.

2029
02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:50,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I was shaking and I was shocked. I

2030
02:02:50,880 --> 02:02:54,200
Speaker 1: wanted to jump out of the car and go let's go, buddy.

2031
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:55,360
Speaker 1: But he said to me, if you don't get in

2032
02:02:55,440 --> 02:02:56,760
Speaker 1: the car right now, I'm gonna get out and pummel

2033
02:02:56,840 --> 02:03:00,720
Speaker 1: your face into the ground. And I believed him, so

2034
02:03:00,760 --> 02:03:03,520
Speaker 1: I got out of the car. I walked up the

2035
02:03:03,840 --> 02:03:05,800
Speaker 1: I walked down to my house, which is a few down.

2036
02:03:05,840 --> 02:03:08,160
Speaker 1: I walked up this gigantic hill I live in live

2037
02:03:08,240 --> 02:03:12,200
Speaker 1: On and I said to my wife, Um, it's time.

2038
02:03:12,560 --> 02:03:16,600
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds dramatic, and I told her

2039
02:03:16,600 --> 02:03:19,360
Speaker 1: the story and I said it's time not to leave.

2040
02:03:19,520 --> 02:03:23,080
Speaker 1: Not that you know six year ago thing where so

2041
02:03:23,160 --> 02:03:25,840
Speaker 1: many of us said if Trump wins weren't moving to Canada. No,

2042
02:03:26,080 --> 02:03:29,800
Speaker 1: this time it was we need to get a passport

2043
02:03:29,920 --> 02:03:34,160
Speaker 1: somewhere else just in case. I'm not saying I'm going

2044
02:03:34,240 --> 02:03:38,680
Speaker 1: to move now. How am I going to get a

2045
02:03:38,720 --> 02:03:43,560
Speaker 1: British or a Canadian or another passport? But I can

2046
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:49,120
Speaker 1: get an Israeli passport that law of return, So I

2047
02:03:49,120 --> 02:03:53,280
Speaker 1: can't believe I'm doing that. I'm doing that and I

2048
02:03:53,320 --> 02:03:59,320
Speaker 1: hope to never have to use it. Um my entire

2049
02:03:59,400 --> 02:04:05,400
Speaker 1: family and as real again, this secular liberal freethinking, why

2050
02:04:05,560 --> 02:04:07,960
Speaker 1: you were we why are we building settlements? How how

2051
02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:11,360
Speaker 1: do we create a two state solution? Huge amount of

2052
02:04:11,400 --> 02:04:15,840
Speaker 1: beautiful family that I have are all there because one

2053
02:04:16,040 --> 02:04:22,760
Speaker 1: person survived the Holocaust and he created this incredible family.

2054
02:04:22,920 --> 02:04:26,720
Speaker 1: And my cousins and my relatives married people who I

2055
02:04:26,800 --> 02:04:29,200
Speaker 1: consider to be my sisters and brothers, even though we're

2056
02:04:29,200 --> 02:04:33,200
Speaker 1: not quote blood relatives. And they come from one person

2057
02:04:34,160 --> 02:04:36,680
Speaker 1: who now at eighties something, when she was seven, saw

2058
02:04:36,720 --> 02:04:40,120
Speaker 1: her father shot in front of her in Paris, and

2059
02:04:40,200 --> 02:04:43,040
Speaker 1: they fled to the south of France and got hidden

2060
02:04:43,120 --> 02:04:46,840
Speaker 1: from house to house to house until they could get

2061
02:04:48,040 --> 02:04:51,640
Speaker 1: to what was going to become Israel. And I'm sitting

2062
02:04:51,640 --> 02:04:57,720
Speaker 1: here in front of people who are survivors because of

2063
02:04:57,760 --> 02:05:03,920
Speaker 1: horrible things, and I never thought we'd be here having

2064
02:05:03,920 --> 02:05:08,200
Speaker 1: to talk about this again. But that's naive. Um So.

2065
02:05:10,160 --> 02:05:13,200
Speaker 1: I I just have no tolerance for anti Semitism, by

2066
02:05:13,240 --> 02:05:19,080
Speaker 1: the way, just like I have no tolerance for racism, misogyny,

2067
02:05:19,360 --> 02:05:24,600
Speaker 1: anybody who speaks out against the LGBTQ community. We were

2068
02:05:24,680 --> 02:05:29,240
Speaker 1: raised as Jewish people to stand up for everyone who

2069
02:05:29,320 --> 02:05:33,520
Speaker 1: is being oppressed or hurt or or or anything, anybody

2070
02:05:33,560 --> 02:05:39,000
Speaker 1: who's being bullied upon. That's how we were raised. And

2071
02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:43,560
Speaker 1: I would just hope in this century that these other

2072
02:05:43,600 --> 02:05:52,400
Speaker 1: communities this time will stand up for us too. Okay, Now, Seinfeld,

2073
02:05:52,800 --> 02:05:57,200
Speaker 1: legendarily George was Jewish and they changed his religion because

2074
02:05:57,240 --> 02:05:59,760
Speaker 1: they didn't want the show to be Jewish. To what

2075
02:06:00,040 --> 02:06:02,560
Speaker 1: degree with the people in the music industry who are

2076
02:06:02,760 --> 02:06:06,800
Speaker 1: Jewish afraid to stand up and own it, and what

2077
02:06:06,920 --> 02:06:10,360
Speaker 1: could be done in terms of the communities we touch? Yeah,

2078
02:06:10,400 --> 02:06:14,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I I loved that George thing you just said.

2079
02:06:16,240 --> 02:06:19,160
Speaker 1: It's very similar, like I said, to what happened a hundred.

2080
02:06:19,320 --> 02:06:22,480
Speaker 1: You know, eighty, I should say eighty years ago in Germany.

2081
02:06:22,760 --> 02:06:26,000
Speaker 1: You know, if we just assimilate, if we just bury ourselves,

2082
02:06:26,360 --> 02:06:30,200
Speaker 1: pretend we're not Jewish. Don't go to don't go to synagogue,

2083
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:31,960
Speaker 1: or only go once a year, but don't tell anybody

2084
02:06:31,960 --> 02:06:35,480
Speaker 1: go to work after you go to synagogue. Russia's Shanna,

2085
02:06:36,600 --> 02:06:39,200
Speaker 1: you know. Don't wear it on your sleeve, don't wear

2086
02:06:39,200 --> 02:06:41,680
Speaker 1: a higher on your neck, don't put a massos on

2087
02:06:41,680 --> 02:06:44,520
Speaker 1: your door, because the ups guy will know you're Jewish.

2088
02:06:44,680 --> 02:06:50,120
Speaker 1: Let's try to just fall in line. Guess what, you're Jewish.

2089
02:06:50,360 --> 02:06:55,120
Speaker 1: They know you're Jewish. They hate you anyway. My grandmother

2090
02:06:55,200 --> 02:06:57,120
Speaker 1: used to say that to me, they hate us because

2091
02:06:57,120 --> 02:06:59,960
Speaker 1: we're Jewish. She got fired for her job at eight

2092
02:07:00,040 --> 02:07:02,920
Speaker 1: T and T in whatever, the thirties of the forties

2093
02:07:02,960 --> 02:07:05,840
Speaker 1: because she took off for Young Kippoor and they said, wait,

2094
02:07:05,880 --> 02:07:11,800
Speaker 1: you're Jewish. Don't come back. And so, yeah, we can assimilate,

2095
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:13,760
Speaker 1: we can hide, we can become a part of all

2096
02:07:13,840 --> 02:07:18,600
Speaker 1: the white nss in America we want. But they know

2097
02:07:18,640 --> 02:07:23,760
Speaker 1: you're Jewish, So why not be proud of it? You know,

2098
02:07:24,520 --> 02:07:27,560
Speaker 1: I again, I say this again, that doesn't mean religious.

2099
02:07:28,920 --> 02:07:31,720
Speaker 1: I'm not saying go to synagogue on Friday night. I'm

2100
02:07:31,720 --> 02:07:36,680
Speaker 1: not an organized religion guy in any religion, by the way,

2101
02:07:37,160 --> 02:07:41,440
Speaker 1: But your culture is which culture is. Okay, you are

2102
02:07:41,440 --> 02:07:49,040
Speaker 1: who you are. So music business, hey, there's Jewish people

2103
02:07:49,040 --> 02:07:53,040
Speaker 1: in it, there's non Jewish people in it. I've worked

2104
02:07:53,040 --> 02:07:54,800
Speaker 1: for a lot of Jewish people in the music business.

2105
02:07:54,800 --> 02:07:56,320
Speaker 1: I've worked for a lot of non Jewish people in

2106
02:07:56,320 --> 02:08:00,920
Speaker 1: the music business. They didn't bring their Jewishness to the music.

2107
02:08:01,360 --> 02:08:05,560
Speaker 1: They did bring their jewishness to the label. Okay, we

2108
02:08:05,680 --> 02:08:08,120
Speaker 1: all maybe the office was a little emptier on Russia

2109
02:08:08,160 --> 02:08:11,440
Speaker 1: Shaanna in New York. But guess what, that's not what

2110
02:08:11,520 --> 02:08:17,720
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle made that just heinous, asinine comment about I've

2111
02:08:17,720 --> 02:08:20,960
Speaker 1: been to Hollywood and I'm gonna unfortunately paraphrase it. But

2112
02:08:21,560 --> 02:08:25,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot of Jews in the business. Well, guess what.

2113
02:08:26,360 --> 02:08:28,960
Speaker 1: New York has the biggest Jewish population in the world.

2114
02:08:29,240 --> 02:08:32,080
Speaker 1: Jerusalem is the second Jewish biggest population in the world.

2115
02:08:32,120 --> 02:08:34,960
Speaker 1: Los Angeles is the third biggest Jewish population in the world,

2116
02:08:35,200 --> 02:08:39,760
Speaker 1: and Tel Aviv has the fourth. That's a population thing.

2117
02:08:40,440 --> 02:08:46,720
Speaker 1: This isn't a control thing. So you know, I just

2118
02:08:46,800 --> 02:08:53,560
Speaker 1: think Jewish people don't need to necessarily suddenly go all religious.

2119
02:08:54,440 --> 02:08:57,040
Speaker 1: But you can't hide from who you are. Be proud

2120
02:08:57,080 --> 02:09:01,560
Speaker 1: of it. I am. I'm proud for where I come from.

2121
02:09:01,600 --> 02:09:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm proud from the cultural things that I've learned because

2122
02:09:05,040 --> 02:09:09,080
Speaker 1: of it. You know, I'm I'm dead against some of

2123
02:09:09,080 --> 02:09:11,560
Speaker 1: the politics that come out of Israel, particularly in this

2124
02:09:11,680 --> 02:09:15,680
Speaker 1: up and coming regime BB part whatever, but I'm certainly

2125
02:09:15,720 --> 02:09:19,800
Speaker 1: proud of the contributions that country has made. I'm really

2126
02:09:19,840 --> 02:09:22,560
Speaker 1: proud of it. I have I have pride in that,

2127
02:09:23,760 --> 02:09:26,760
Speaker 1: just like somebody who's from Ireland has pride and things

2128
02:09:26,800 --> 02:09:29,000
Speaker 1: that come from there. People that are British have pride.

2129
02:09:29,240 --> 02:09:32,240
Speaker 1: I have pride. I'm not gonna apologize for that, and

2130
02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:35,280
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna hide. And if you hate me because

2131
02:09:35,280 --> 02:09:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm Jewish, ego, funk yourself and be you just don't

2132
02:09:38,120 --> 02:09:43,560
Speaker 1: know me. Been scapegoats forever and we're gonna be scapegoats

2133
02:09:43,560 --> 02:09:45,400
Speaker 1: in a hundred years and three hundred years and five

2134
02:09:45,440 --> 02:09:47,520
Speaker 1: hundre years. But for God's sake, can we at least

2135
02:09:47,560 --> 02:09:50,760
Speaker 1: all suddenly have a voice. And I feel we need

2136
02:09:50,800 --> 02:09:54,160
Speaker 1: to hide. I don't know if that answers your question,

2137
02:09:54,240 --> 02:09:57,160
Speaker 1: but that's how I feel. Well, I you know, I

2138
02:09:57,240 --> 02:10:00,320
Speaker 1: hope that a lot of people hear that, because normally

2139
02:10:00,440 --> 02:10:04,320
Speaker 1: use your message good. So is the delivery certainly much

2140
02:10:04,360 --> 02:10:07,040
Speaker 1: better than good? Now I knew you know, you flew

2141
02:10:07,240 --> 02:10:11,640
Speaker 1: from so Cal over a couple of time zones to Nashville.

2142
02:10:12,040 --> 02:10:13,760
Speaker 1: So I think we've come to the end of the

2143
02:10:13,800 --> 02:10:17,520
Speaker 1: feeling we've known, even though we could talk for much

2144
02:10:17,640 --> 02:10:20,400
Speaker 1: more time. But you've really been fantastic, Steve. I want

2145
02:10:20,400 --> 02:10:24,320
Speaker 1: to thank you for taking the time unbelievable and thank you,

2146
02:10:24,400 --> 02:10:28,080
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. I'm so glad to reconnect with you.

2147
02:10:28,640 --> 02:10:31,360
Speaker 1: I had such amazing memories of you and I sitting

2148
02:10:31,360 --> 02:10:34,000
Speaker 1: across the dinner table together, and I remember wanting to

2149
02:10:34,000 --> 02:10:39,080
Speaker 1: talk non stop with you, and I'm just so grateful.

2150
02:10:39,280 --> 02:10:41,640
Speaker 1: I'm great. You know. That begs a couple more questions

2151
02:10:41,680 --> 02:10:43,800
Speaker 1: that I want to ask you about you, But as

2152
02:10:43,880 --> 02:10:49,120
Speaker 1: I say, that's it for today, Okay, fine, thank you

2153
02:10:49,480 --> 02:10:51,960
Speaker 1: until next time. This is Bob left set