1
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,479
Speaker 1: I am Morgan and the creator of PhD Comics. And

2
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and definitely not an

3
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,960
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence. And welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge

4
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,720
Speaker 1: Explain the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio. Listeners

5
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,520
Speaker 1: of the podcast will though that I am particularly fascinated

6
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 1: by aliens and the search for alien intelligence, because I

7
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,680
Speaker 1: hope that those aliens will one day reveal the future

8
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,919
Speaker 1: and secrets of physics to us. But I'm also equally

9
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 1: fascinated in the search for intelligence here on Earth. And

10
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,720
Speaker 1: I don't mean among the political class, but I mean

11
00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,800
Speaker 1: in our computers, whether our computers can be intelligent, whether

12
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 1: they will be intelligent, maybe they will discover secrets of

13
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,239
Speaker 1: physics and unraveled them for us. Well, today we have

14
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,360
Speaker 1: an amazing combination of those two ideas wrapped up together

15
00:00:53,560 --> 00:01:13,399
Speaker 1: in one podcast. Yeah, we are once again taking questions

16
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 1: from some friends of ours, so to be on the podcast,

17
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: we have the host of a popular podcast here to

18
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 1: ask us questions. So to be on the program, we

19
00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:31,720
Speaker 1: have the host of the podcast Sleepwalkers with us here today,

20
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,960
Speaker 1: So Kara Price and Oz Walshing. Hey, guys, hi, Hi,

21
00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,280
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on, thanks for having us. We're not

22
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: just listeners, but we're we're super listeners and big fans

23
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,119
Speaker 1: and hoping that you can explain the universe to us today,

24
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 1: not the whole universe, just some sounds like a great

25
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,520
Speaker 1: idea of for podcast. Yeah, So Kara and Oz are

26
00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:56,640
Speaker 1: produced and host the podcast Sleepwalkers, which is also by

27
00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,240
Speaker 1: Our Heart Radio, and which is about everything you need

28
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,160
Speaker 1: to know about artificial intelligence, right guys, hopefully it is everything,

29
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,559
Speaker 1: but yeah, the way it's affecting people's lives in different areas.

30
00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 1: And I was interested, you know, to hear Daniel that

31
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,400
Speaker 1: you use machine learning in your work, because we're focusing

32
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,639
Speaker 1: more and more on how AI can help us understand

33
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,440
Speaker 1: complex systems, so not just simple cause and effect, but

34
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: you know, multifarious interacting causes which produce hard to explain effects.

35
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 1: So we were looking today at death actually, and how

36
00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,359
Speaker 1: death involves the collapse of all these different systems, and

37
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,360
Speaker 1: the collapse of one system might affect another system, and

38
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,200
Speaker 1: how hard it is for doctors to predict time of

39
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,800
Speaker 1: death because it's hard for people to conceive of the

40
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 1: interaction between different types of systems and different types of

41
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,639
Speaker 1: data points. But that's something that computers are very good at.

42
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,840
Speaker 1: That's right. One of the things we do is that

43
00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,240
Speaker 1: we take these big, complex pictures of particle collisions and

44
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:55,800
Speaker 1: then we have to try to unravel and we have

45
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 1: to try to wonder what's going on in the data.

46
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,520
Speaker 1: Is that we use machines, we computer intelligence to do

47
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 1: that sometimes, but we also want to interpret it. I

48
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,799
Speaker 1: was listening to your podcast last week about making sure

49
00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,080
Speaker 1: these things makes sense and how do we understand the

50
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,000
Speaker 1: decisions these computers have made. And that's the same problem

51
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,080
Speaker 1: we have UM here in particle physics, because nobody wants

52
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,320
Speaker 1: to publish a paper that says, um, the computer found

53
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 1: a particle in the data. We can't see it, but

54
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,400
Speaker 1: trust us it's there. Very interesting. Yeah, we were talking

55
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,119
Speaker 1: to UM author Provoca, who ran DAPPA for a few

56
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,160
Speaker 1: years until Seen, and she was telling us that this

57
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,000
Speaker 1: concept of explainable AI is a big priority at Dopper

58
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 1: right now. So cool to hear you're working on. Start

59
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 1: us off. Maybe if you can tell us a little

60
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,840
Speaker 1: bit about yourselves and a little bit about the podcast

61
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 1: and how we can find it. I mean, you said,

62
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 1: my name is Karat Price. I'm the co host of Sleepwalkers,

63
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,520
Speaker 1: and my background is well in content production, but that's

64
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,200
Speaker 1: not fun for a podcast. But I did have a

65
00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,320
Speaker 1: show on hof Post called Talk Nerdy to Me. That

66
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,360
Speaker 1: was a video show where we asked other big questions

67
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,760
Speaker 1: not only pertaining to the universe, but sometimes pertaining to

68
00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: the universe. So I do have a general understanding of

69
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,240
Speaker 1: some of the things that you guys talked about on

70
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 1: your show, and I've gotten to speak to some really

71
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,159
Speaker 1: interesting folks at NASA, and I've gotten to it was

72
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 1: during the time of you know, when they first detected

73
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,839
Speaker 1: gravitational waves, and so we did a lot of research

74
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,320
Speaker 1: around that, and I became particularly interested in gravitational waves

75
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,080
Speaker 1: from that um for the show. And also I grew

76
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,440
Speaker 1: up with a father who was obsessed with both the

77
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,359
Speaker 1: universe and extrachestrial life and actually edited a book called

78
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,320
Speaker 1: the Universe. And he was an adult man, so he

79
00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,080
Speaker 1: could not go to space camp, but sent me to

80
00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,400
Speaker 1: space Camp when I was ten years old. I think

81
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,200
Speaker 1: I went there before I went to sleepaway Camp. So

82
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,920
Speaker 1: I've always had a solar system consciousness, I think more

83
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,920
Speaker 1: so than your average middle schooler that has to learn

84
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,440
Speaker 1: about it in school. At least I sort of grew

85
00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 1: up in the shadow of the nineteen sixties and how

86
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 1: being a parent that really was obsessed obsessed with the

87
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,400
Speaker 1: fact that we had landed on the Moon, and obsessed

88
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,920
Speaker 1: with astronauts and going to space, and also understanding sort

89
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,719
Speaker 1: of is there life in the cosmos? So from a

90
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,320
Speaker 1: personal standpoint, these are the things that I think about

91
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 1: kind of on a daily basis. So being on your

92
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,560
Speaker 1: show is quite interesting. And and then also you know

93
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 1: this idea of will we ever find life on Mars

94
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 1: or on other earthlike plants where they can actually survive,

95
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,839
Speaker 1: or will they find us? Or have they or have

96
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,000
Speaker 1: they found this green and us tell us a little

97
00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,360
Speaker 1: bit about you. Yeah, I'm afraid I don't have nearly

98
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 1: quite such a romantic origin story as Kara. But I'm

99
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,800
Speaker 1: interested in origin stories, origins of the universe, origins of

100
00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:52,719
Speaker 1: computer science, origins of artificial intelligence. And I was a

101
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,760
Speaker 1: huge fan of Kara's work on Talk Nettie to Me,

102
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,640
Speaker 1: so um, when I started thinking about Sleepwalkers as a show,

103
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, she was the first person and I reached

104
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 1: out to for advice on how to build it. And

105
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 1: then I got very lucky that she didn't just want

106
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,279
Speaker 1: to give me advice on how to build it, but

107
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,680
Speaker 1: also join the show. So really, you know, it's a

108
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,240
Speaker 1: show which is about technology and about artificial intelligence, um,

109
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,800
Speaker 1: but it uses those topics as a way in to

110
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,120
Speaker 1: have big conversations about our culture and our society and

111
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,760
Speaker 1: what makes us human more are the limits of our humanity?

112
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,719
Speaker 1: And so you know, as the series is progressed, we've

113
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 1: gone from looking at how algorithms are able to understand

114
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,520
Speaker 1: us and know us in some sense better than ourselves

115
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 1: and thus influence us, whether that's to buy or to vote,

116
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 1: or to appear at protests or to keep swiping on

117
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,159
Speaker 1: dating apps, And then as a series is progressed, we've

118
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 1: looked at you know, medical applications. As Karrol was mentioning, um,

119
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,800
Speaker 1: what what happens in a world when we can use

120
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,360
Speaker 1: AI to interpret our biological signals, a mess of our

121
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,520
Speaker 1: biological signals to tell us when we might die, or

122
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,279
Speaker 1: the mess of our genome to tell us what kind

123
00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,839
Speaker 1: of illnesses we may be prone to, how tall our

124
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,359
Speaker 1: children maybe and what color their eyes will be and

125
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 1: whether we want to intervene in that. And our final

126
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 1: episode of the series of season one is coming out

127
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 1: in two weeks, which features an interview with Yuval Noah Harari,

128
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,920
Speaker 1: who wrote Sapiens and Homodaeus, really asking the question what

129
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,120
Speaker 1: does all of this new technology mean for our status

130
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 1: as humans? Are we on the verge of speciating becoming

131
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,560
Speaker 1: a new species of people who are technologically enabled? And

132
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,200
Speaker 1: obviously there's a bunch of people looming in the background

133
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,720
Speaker 1: like Elon Musk who kind of constantly ringing the bell

134
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 1: for for terror, and he's somebody who's worked on transhumanism

135
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 1: in the form of neuralink. Also somebody who's interested in

136
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 1: the potential for us living in a simulation. Which is

137
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,600
Speaker 1: an episode of your show I really enjoyed. But but

138
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 1: we try and take a more um, you know, more

139
00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 1: neutral line looking some of the optimistic things that this

140
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 1: new technology will allow for us and for our species

141
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,840
Speaker 1: to enjoy and perhaps even have more time to play

142
00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,840
Speaker 1: or listen to podcasts podcasts. Well, hopefully I will make

143
00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,160
Speaker 1: our next podcast, so we would have to ye from

144
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,400
Speaker 1: our voice hopefully cool. Well, if you are interested in

145
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, which I think everyone should be at this point,

146
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 1: please go check out their podcast. But today we'll be

147
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 1: answering questions from Oz and Cara related to the universe

148
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 1: and aliens and astrology and fate, and so let's jump

149
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: into it. Well, I think I speak for all women. No,

150
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:33,199
Speaker 1: I'm joking. Um, I think astrology is becoming a multibillion

151
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 1: dollar industry with absolutely no uh grounded facts. And so

152
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm always interested in talking about astrology, but I don't

153
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,439
Speaker 1: really know so much about how it relates to astronomy,

154
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,920
Speaker 1: even though I probably should. And so I figured i'd

155
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,720
Speaker 1: ask a question about that and maybe you guys could

156
00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,280
Speaker 1: give me a decent answer. So I can, you know,

157
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,760
Speaker 1: school my friends. So the question is, what does astronomy

158
00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,240
Speaker 1: have to do with astrology? Right besides the word stro

159
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,000
Speaker 1: in front of it, I think I think you just

160
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,560
Speaker 1: answered the question. Actually, I think those letters are about

161
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 1: all they have in common. I mean, astrology is like,

162
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,840
Speaker 1: you know, looking at the stars and identifying constellations and

163
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 1: imagining somehow that the constellations that were in the sky

164
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,760
Speaker 1: when you were born might dictate who you are and

165
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,200
Speaker 1: the events that happened to you in your life. You know,

166
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,760
Speaker 1: it's really mysticism, whereas astronomy that's like a scientific study

167
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,079
Speaker 1: of the universe. Let's look out into space and try

168
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,760
Speaker 1: to figure out what's out there and how does it work?

169
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 1: And can we build a model that actually makes sense?

170
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,880
Speaker 1: And so there's really almost no overlap at all. UM

171
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:44,400
Speaker 1: overlap might be that astrology relates to constellations, and constellations

172
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,240
Speaker 1: are kind of weirdly a lot of people's introduction to astronomy.

173
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,000
Speaker 1: You know, people look up at the stars and they

174
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,040
Speaker 1: see these constellations and that's fun. That sort of draws

175
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,480
Speaker 1: them into the mystery and the majesty of the night sky. Now,

176
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,960
Speaker 1: is it possible that, um, the way in which we

177
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 1: look at a strong g today, future generations will look

178
00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,240
Speaker 1: at what we think of as astronomy. In other words,

179
00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 1: would it be a system for understanding the world which

180
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:13,960
Speaker 1: future scientific revelations proofs or demonstrates was actually a flawid understanding.

181
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure that the future generations will look back at

182
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,800
Speaker 1: our astronomy and they will snicker at our misconceptions. Right,

183
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,839
Speaker 1: they will think, oh, my gosh, they thought that the

184
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 1: universe was like this. It turns out it's like that.

185
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,880
Speaker 1: But that's you know, that's the part of the process

186
00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,520
Speaker 1: of science is corrections, and there's nothing to be ashamed

187
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,520
Speaker 1: of in a modern day astronomy. We've made dramatic understandings,

188
00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,480
Speaker 1: and anything that we misunderstand, we're happy to have a

189
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 1: new understanding. Astrology is a little bit different, you know,

190
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 1: it's a it's not a scientific understanding. It hasn't come

191
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 1: to be out of a method which has been built

192
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,319
Speaker 1: to separate fact from fiction. It is really just pure fiction.

193
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,160
Speaker 1: When I think about astrology, astrology is to astronomy sort

194
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,120
Speaker 1: of like what weather gods are or rain dances are

195
00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,760
Speaker 1: to meteorology, you know, like which is a much more

196
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,839
Speaker 1: precise science, right, yeah, exactly. You know. The thing that

197
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,800
Speaker 1: amazes me is that these things are so often linked

198
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,440
Speaker 1: because they really have almost nothing in common. And I

199
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,240
Speaker 1: go to planet I take my kids to planetariums, for example,

200
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,800
Speaker 1: and very often they start off a planetarium show with

201
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,520
Speaker 1: the constellations. They're like, this is this constellation, this is

202
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,360
Speaker 1: that constellation. And I'm thinking, this is supposed to be

203
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,080
Speaker 1: like an extronomical educational experience, supposed to be learning about

204
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,560
Speaker 1: the universe. But constellations have no insight into the universe

205
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,920
Speaker 1: at all. They're just they're an artifact of where we

206
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,200
Speaker 1: happen to be in space. You know, you look at

207
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 1: the stars in a particular constellation, they look close together

208
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 1: because of where we are, but you know, some of

209
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,440
Speaker 1: them are zillions of light years apart. You look at

210
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,080
Speaker 1: them from another perspective, there's no constellation there at all.

211
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 1: So it always, it always frustrates me that essentially they

212
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,880
Speaker 1: begin with astrology, with with the zodiac signs, with basically

213
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 1: Bronze age myths, you know, as an entrance to astronomy.

214
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,240
Speaker 1: That always frustrates me. So the stars don't ever align

215
00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,200
Speaker 1: really for anybody. I mean, some people have charmed lives,

216
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,920
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's because of the stars. Is

217
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 1: it possible? And I've always wondered, you know, people feel

218
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,760
Speaker 1: the moon for example, Like I've been with people who

219
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,439
Speaker 1: want it's a full moon. They feel some kind of

220
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,720
Speaker 1: connection to the moon, or they feel some sense of

221
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,840
Speaker 1: excitemental wildness. Um, is that pure projection? Is there is

222
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 1: there any possibility that sort of events or planets moving

223
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,720
Speaker 1: throughout Galic se can on a particle level affect us

224
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,959
Speaker 1: or connect with us? Well, I don't know, your friends,

225
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 1: are they sort of they get sort of hairy and

226
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,120
Speaker 1: a little more toothy when the moon comes out like

227
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 1: that all the time, when they sounds fascinating. Um, I

228
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 1: think it's it's not a stretch actually said that the

229
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: moon affects people, right, because the Moon is pretty close,

230
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,800
Speaker 1: and it certainly has a physical effect on the Earth

231
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 1: that causes the tides. It affects the things on the planet,

232
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,439
Speaker 1: that's for sure. But I suspect that that's a lot

233
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,800
Speaker 1: a lot of that is psychostomatic. That you know, seeing

234
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,560
Speaker 1: the moon affects the way people feel. You have to

235
00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 1: do some sort of blind study where people couldn't see

236
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,680
Speaker 1: the moon and just feel it. But the other planets

237
00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,719
Speaker 1: and stars, you know, we were It's funny. We're talking

238
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,360
Speaker 1: about this just recently on the podcast. It is true

239
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,640
Speaker 1: that you feel the effects of other atoms in the universe.

240
00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,360
Speaker 1: In fact, every other atom in the universe. There's, for example,

241
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,080
Speaker 1: an electromagnetic field that connects you the protons and electrons

242
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 1: in your body with the electrons everywhere. But those things

243
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,520
Speaker 1: are negligible because the power of those things drops as

244
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,360
Speaker 1: the distance squared, So the electrons and alpha centauri have

245
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 1: no measurable effect on you and the out and the

246
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,920
Speaker 1: you know where that we know of where Jupiter is,

247
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,680
Speaker 1: where Saturn is, doesn't affect whether or not you should

248
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 1: like say yes to a date or invest in SpaceX right,

249
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:47,040
Speaker 1: that's Alpha Centauri is acting super crazy to Well, to

250
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,079
Speaker 1: be fair, Dannie, you shouldn't base all decisions on astrology

251
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:55,240
Speaker 1: or astronomy either one. That's right. Well, the stock market

252
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,840
Speaker 1: is just a random chance anyway, so you know, just

253
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:04,480
Speaker 1: roll a dime and make your investments as advice and mercury.

254
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:11,840
Speaker 1: And they started with constellations because it sort of gives

255
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 1: you a little bit of context about what we humans

256
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 1: seeing this guy and what we are yearning to understand

257
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,280
Speaker 1: how this guy is related to our lives. Right, I

258
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,160
Speaker 1: think it's really interesting, so I can I can imagine Daniel,

259
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,960
Speaker 1: it must be frustrating on the one hand to have

260
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:34,400
Speaker 1: the specter of astrology haunting astronomy. On the other hand,

261
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,120
Speaker 1: the fact that people have a baseline interest in the

262
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 1: stars maybe is you know, net positive. I think so. Yeah.

263
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,400
Speaker 1: I just wish it wasn't diverted into astrology. You know.

264
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,640
Speaker 1: It's like if somebody asks, hey, tell us about you know,

265
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,560
Speaker 1: the particles in the universe and what everything is made

266
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,680
Speaker 1: out of. You don't start off with, well, there's fire, air, wind,

267
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,920
Speaker 1: and earth, you know whatever, like the four elements. The

268
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,120
Speaker 1: Greeks thought you begin with things we actually know. You

269
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,560
Speaker 1: begin with you true facts about the universe. Uh. I

270
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,640
Speaker 1: think I think there's so much amazing stuff in astronomy

271
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,000
Speaker 1: that you don't have to begin with astrology to get

272
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,160
Speaker 1: people excited, just while them with reality. The universe is

273
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,600
Speaker 1: a crazy, amazing place and there's lots of cool stuff

274
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,320
Speaker 1: out there. You know, when people refer to a whole

275
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,560
Speaker 1: you know, the universe telling me to quit my job,

276
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 1: or it's just the universe doesn't think that I know

277
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,600
Speaker 1: that I should be with this guy or this girl whatever. Um,

278
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 1: you know, like the universe has a personality and opinions

279
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,680
Speaker 1: about your dating life, and you would disagree as a

280
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 1: degree in psychotherapy, right exactly what. It's the same we

281
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 1: see in coverage of AI as people like to anthropy,

282
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:44,440
Speaker 1: anthropomorphize UM machines and algorithm algorithms, the algorithm, the algorithm algorithm,

283
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,320
Speaker 1: you know, and and it's kind of a bit of

284
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 1: a cop out, isn't it to thinking about how we

285
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,400
Speaker 1: are responsible for our outcomes. Yeah, I think there's something

286
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,840
Speaker 1: really fascinating there. Actually, it says something really interesting about

287
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,920
Speaker 1: human intelligence and consciousness. Um. You know here, I'm very

288
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 1: far from my area of expertise, But I think that

289
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:06,520
Speaker 1: that people are really good at identifying intelligence outside of themselves. Right.

290
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,960
Speaker 1: It's certainly a survival tactic to say, like, oh, this

291
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 1: creature here seems to be aware and intelligent and how

292
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,320
Speaker 1: and be an agent and uh. And so I think

293
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,520
Speaker 1: that's how people identify, you know, will in other beings.

294
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 1: And it's very natural to extend that to the universe,

295
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 1: to say, like, you know, it seems like there's some

296
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 1: organizing intelligence that's acting in this way to bring storms

297
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,680
Speaker 1: or to star wars or whatever. And I wonder how

298
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 1: easily people will apply that to AI. You know, when

299
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 1: we have a I that is that can mimic human

300
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,800
Speaker 1: human intelligence that really is interchangeable with a human being,

301
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,240
Speaker 1: will people be tempted to give them human rights? You know,

302
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,480
Speaker 1: because they appear to suffer, Do they really suffer? You know,

303
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,040
Speaker 1: these are really fascinating questions that I think you guys

304
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,840
Speaker 1: probably should answer in your podcast. Well, if you watch,

305
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 1: I mean, if you watch, like there's Boston there's videos

306
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,280
Speaker 1: on the Boston Dynamics YouTube right of or there's there's

307
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: videos where you watch robots either getting beat up or

308
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 1: watch robots, you know, dog fight, breaking into dog, robot

309
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,800
Speaker 1: fights um or dogs pulling a truck? Am I supposed

310
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 1: to feel bad for this robot dog that has to

311
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 1: pull a truck as opposed to what dogs should be doing,

312
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,240
Speaker 1: which is playing and using their minds and building tech companies? So,

313
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, I think we don't exactly. Yeah, I think

314
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,360
Speaker 1: these questions are going to come up. I think they're

315
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,679
Speaker 1: already coming up, you know, just in terms of who

316
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 1: are we who are we blaming? When when algorithms go wrong?

317
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 1: Can you even blame an algorithm? Yeah? I guess the

318
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 1: real question mark, I think obviously, you know, all goes

319
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,159
Speaker 1: back to you. That's right. He didn't know what he

320
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 1: was making. And when the dog aies take over, we'll

321
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,159
Speaker 1: have to ask them if they're interested in astrology, if

322
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,640
Speaker 1: they just skip over and go straight to astronomy. Let's

323
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 1: let's the dog constellation. What's the fight? I think Orion

324
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 1: has a dog, doesn't the Ryan of a dog? There

325
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,439
Speaker 1: you go? Maybe the hunter? Yeah, But it seems like

326
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,800
Speaker 1: you're saying the answer is that astronomy is a science.

327
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,360
Speaker 1: It's based on facts and observations and data, But astrology

328
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 1: is really just sort of people making stuff up. Astrology

329
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: is spiritual mysticism, and you know, some people find it helpful,

330
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 1: but it's definitely not science. In this political moment, you know,

331
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,639
Speaker 1: with you know, you have the ministers in Britain saying,

332
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,119
Speaker 1: you know, we're past the age of experts, and you

333
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 1: have a lot of conversation about fake news in the US.

334
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 1: And that's something we've looked at on our podcast is

335
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:40,160
Speaker 1: deep fakes and how manufactured media can you know, disturb

336
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 1: the notion that truth exists anywhere, and that's obviously having

337
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 1: big implications for our politics. Is that how much of

338
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,800
Speaker 1: a concern is that in the world of science that

339
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,399
Speaker 1: you know, in the end, somebody might turn around and say, well,

340
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 1: I choose my facts and in my universe astrology is

341
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 1: just as vad as astronomy. Well, I think that the

342
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,679
Speaker 1: sort of two answers, they're one. Um. I think the

343
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: general public has already lost a lot of faith in

344
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,520
Speaker 1: science as an institution, not because science has misbehaved, but

345
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 1: because our political leaders have begun dismissing it and then

346
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,240
Speaker 1: pushing it away from having a role at the table.

347
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 1: The facts of reality are not always convenient. Um. But

348
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,199
Speaker 1: I think there's another angle to that, which is fakes.

349
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 1: In science and actually there you know, there are scientists

350
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 1: who fabricate data and produce papers, um with with images

351
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,919
Speaker 1: that are not actually taken from their experiments. But the

352
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,439
Speaker 1: fascinating thing is that they're very easy to detect. I mean,

353
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,560
Speaker 1: they just take an image that's in another figure in

354
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: the same paper and like inverted or flip it or whatever.

355
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,640
Speaker 1: So there might be a day when scientists use sophisticated

356
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 1: AI to generate false data for their papers, but that

357
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 1: day is not yet here. Well, and you also just

358
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,439
Speaker 1: have the larger problem of misinformation in the case of

359
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,880
Speaker 1: you know, the flat earther movement. I still can't tell

360
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 1: if the flat Earther movement is a bunch of trolls

361
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 1: of people really believe that, you know, like, does anybody

362
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 1: actually seriously believe that? I mean, I think it's a

363
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 1: crazy option of YouTube rad goals. I don't think there's

364
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,439
Speaker 1: going to be much progress made in the scientific establishment.

365
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 1: It's an interesting example of how the algorithm has impacted

366
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 1: people's perception of reality and science, because those were most

367
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 1: people who have been radicalized in that way. Um, we're

368
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 1: radicalized on YouTube by being suggested other videos like videos, Well,

369
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 1: folks just need to listen to our show and they'll

370
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 1: understand everything exactly. Well. The thing about that idea of

371
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 1: fake sciences that do you think, Daniel, that we can

372
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 1: always just verify these things. You know, like if somebody says, hey,

373
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: I can clone human beings but nobody else can do it,

374
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 1: then you know that cast some shadow on their claim, right. Yeah,

375
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 1: that's the nice thing about sciences. There's always somebody else

376
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: out there who wants to prove you wrong, and so

377
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: fake results don't last very long. Um. We talked about

378
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 1: that on a podcast recently about cold fusion, how folks

379
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,959
Speaker 1: claim to have invented fusion that you could do at

380
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 1: room temperature, but then within months lots and lots and

381
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: lots of groups tried to reproduce it and couldn't and

382
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 1: so it went from a media sensation to you know,

383
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 1: um to fringe ridiculousness in just a few months. And

384
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,439
Speaker 1: so I think that's one of the real strengths of

385
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 1: sciences that it has this self correction because we can

386
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 1: always refer to the experiments because in the end, it's

387
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: grounded in truth and facts. That's not always the case

388
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: about you know, mainstream discussions in the news media. So

389
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: you have two other questions, and these are pretty interesting

390
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: about life and other planets, and also about those UFO

391
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 1: sightings by the Navy. Yes, and so we'll get into those,

392
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 1: but first let's take a quick break. All right, We're

393
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: here with carea Price and ask wall Shit, the host

394
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: of the podcast sleep Walkers, which is about artificial intelligence

395
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: and society and culture. And today we're taking questions from them,

396
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: two experts and AI asking one expert about the universe

397
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: in one cartoon is deep Questions about the universe. And

398
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: so Karrol, what's here a second question? Well, it really

399
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: freaks me out to think that there could be a

400
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: bunch of life like creatures living on a planet that

401
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 1: I don't know exists. So my question is, what are

402
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: the chances that there's such a thing. Why do you

403
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: say life like? Well, I guess, I guess. You know what,

404
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: it really trips me out to think about there are

405
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: human beings on another place that don't know that there

406
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: are human beings on Earth. So we're all we're both living,

407
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 1: minding your own business, shopping at whole foods, living on

408
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: different planets, and is that happening? Is that possible that

409
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,239
Speaker 1: there is that there are supermarkets. On another point, like

410
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: a humans like people or just like weird blobby green

411
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: aliens who also happen to have whole foods. I think

412
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: care is worried that maybe on alien whole foods that

413
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: prices are lower. How do I That's impossible, That is

414
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: physically impossible. No. I guess my point is is, you know,

415
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 1: if there are earthlike plant it's could they be producing

416
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: earth like human beings? Yeah, that's a great question. You know,

417
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: is there life elsewhere in the universe? And you know,

418
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,719
Speaker 1: if they only exist as slimy, tentacled creatures, can they

419
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: still push a shopping cart at whole foods? Right? That's

420
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: a deep question about the universe. A lot of people

421
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: have asked, um, And I think it's a fascinating question

422
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: because it goes right to like the context of human existence.

423
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: You know, are we alone in the universe or are

424
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: we one of many? You know? Um, is there other

425
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: civilizations out there? And I think that's something people have

426
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: wondered for a long long time. And the fascinating thing

427
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: is that we still really have no idea what the

428
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: answer to that question is. But the most amazing thing

429
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: is that I think one day we will This is

430
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: the kind of question that we are currently ignorant of

431
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: the answer, right, we don't know that if there's lots

432
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: of other civilizations out there or we're the only one.

433
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: But one day we will know, and people will look

434
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: back and wonder, like, what was it like to be

435
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: ignorant about this really basic question about the universe? And

436
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: so it's fascinating and exciting and also sometimes frustrating to

437
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: live back in that age of ignorance about the universe.

438
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: But is it possible that there are other intelligent life

439
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: forms in the universe? And we will never until the

440
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: end of time? No, absolutely, I mean, all of these

441
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: things are possible. Um. You know the here, here's the

442
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: whole range. Like, we know that there's lots of earthlike

443
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: planets out there. We know that like twenty of stars

444
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: there have an earthlike planet, which is incredible because there's

445
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: one in five. Yeah, and you know, we only learned

446
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: that recently. We've known for a long long time that

447
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: there's zillions and zillions of stars in the universe, but

448
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: we didn't know how often they made earth like planets,

449
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: like is it unusual? Um? And that's that's the problem,

450
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: is that we only have this one data sample Earth,

451
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: and so we were tempted to extrapolate and wonder if

452
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: there's lots of others, But we don't know if we're unusual.

453
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: And does earthlike mean between thirty and forty degree or

454
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: between zero and forty degrees celsius normally with oxygen, nit string,

455
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 1: combon dioxide and the atmosphere and water. What are the

456
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: dorsal definition of Earth like and and whole. Yeah, No,

457
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: it means a rocky planet. So this is a surface

458
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 1: and roughly the right amount of solar radiation so that

459
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: you could get liquid water on the surface. We don't

460
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: know if there's gonna be liquid water there. We certainly

461
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,479
Speaker 1: don't know about oxygen. Oxygen is actually hard to make.

462
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: You need microbes for a long time to produce oxygen typically,

463
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: but just you know, very basic rocky planet with about

464
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: the right distance from the sun so that the water

465
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: is not frozen and so it's not super duper hot. Right,

466
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: that's pretty basic requirement. And so we now know that

467
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,479
Speaker 1: there's zillions and zillions of those, And now the question

468
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: is how many of those have life, and how many

469
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: of those have intelligent life, and how many of those

470
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: have technologically intelligent life, and how many of those have

471
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: technologically intelligent and intelligible life right that we can actually

472
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: communicate with and recognize. And the frustrating thing is that

473
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: that the numbers either is somewhere between of those planets

474
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: have a life and Earth is the only one right

475
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: one over like a trillion, and we just really don't

476
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: know the answer. It's that are somewhere in between, and

477
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: the reason is that we've only ever seen this one

478
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: planet where it's happened, which is Earth. As a book

479
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: called The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Condera, beautiful

480
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: book about about love, and the protagonist is wondering about

481
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: his relationship and should he stay or should he go?

482
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: And there's this phrase in German which survives into the

483
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: English translation, which is einmal is kind mal or once

484
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: is none, basically to say that if you only have

485
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: a sample size of one, you can never make a

486
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: good decision. Scientifically, we only have this one data point,

487
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: and it'll it'll just blow it open. Once we can

488
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: visit one more planet, just one more will tell us

489
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: a huge amount, because if that the other planet also

490
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: has life on it, boom, life on another planet. We've

491
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: discovered it, we've answered the question. If it doesn't right,

492
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: then it tells us that the number is probably a

493
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: lot less than of Earth like planets have life on them. Um.

494
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: And the other reason why it's sort of a struggle

495
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: is that we still don't really know how life started

496
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: on Earth. You know, if we had a really detailed

497
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: mechanistic understanding of that process, you know, to go from

498
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: lifeless but with the ingredients of life to life beginning,

499
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: then we can answer this question scientifically. We can build models,

500
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: we can say how often that happened, but we don't.

501
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: It's still a mystery to us. We know it took

502
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: about five dred million years or maybe a billion years

503
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: or some controversy, but we don't know how it happened,

504
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: and so we can't really speak concretely about whether it's

505
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: likely to happen elsewhere. Well, I can have a question

506
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: for you guys. So let's assume that there is an

507
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: advance realization out there, or there are many out there.

508
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: Do you think it's inevitable that they will all be

509
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: overtaken by artificial intelligence, or that they will develop it

510
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: and maybe taken over by it, as some people fear

511
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: will happen to us. Do you feel like AI is inevitable?

512
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: That's a very interesting question. Yeah, And I was about

513
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: I was going to say that, you know, if if

514
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: you if you think about statistics, you know, one over

515
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: a trillion chance, I wouldn't I wouldn't bet on that.

516
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: So from that point of view, you know, I would

517
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: if I was a good today in a falsetti because

518
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: I would think that, you know, in a statistical likelihood

519
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: is that something does exist out there. So what is AI?

520
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: I mean AI is statistics and probability, and computers are

521
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: able to harness the power of statistics and probability in

522
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: order to make predictions about the future. So you would

523
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: assume that other beings of our sentience and intelligence would

524
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: also create, you know, computer like machines to help with

525
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: mathematical equations, and if they did, the logical progress of

526
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: that would I think to be towards artificial intelligence. I'm

527
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: curious for daniels thoughts on that. I think that's a

528
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: wonderful question. Actually, once wrote a science fiction story in

529
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: which an organic creatures develop artificial intelligence, which then wipes

530
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: them out and then um and then thousands or millions

531
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: of years later that that machine based society develops organic

532
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: computers UM, which then grew into intelligence and wipes out

533
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: the machine based to thezation, it all comes full circle.

534
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: The organic computer even look like like you have one

535
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: in your head right now, brain, Sorry news, Yeah, exactly, No.

536
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: I think that these really fascinating questions, and this is

537
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: exactly why I want to meet the aliens. Why why

538
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: I want to collaborate with them, why I want to

539
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: be first in line to talk to them, because these

540
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: are deep questions that can only really be answered by

541
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: getting more data. You know, is the physics that we've

542
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: developed the physics of the universe or the physics of humanity?

543
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: Is artificial intelligence and natural outgrowth of technology and computerization,

544
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: or is it just the consequences of human thought and civilization.

545
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: We really don't know the answer to that, and we

546
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: can't really ever tell until we meet those aliens and

547
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: talk to them about it. Well, speaking of meeting other aliens,

548
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: we'll get to your last question, Kara, which is about

549
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: those UFO signings by the Navy. But first let's take

550
00:29:54,160 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: a quick break. All right, Carrot, what's your last question?

551
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: It's about something that is seems straight out of the

552
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: X files, right, Yes, it is out of the X files,

553
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, what's going on with the U. S.

554
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: Navy and UFOs. I've always followed UFOs sort of casually

555
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: or just the hype the crazy, but it seems like

556
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: it's in the New York Times now now I'm paying attention.

557
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 1: I mean, unidentified flying object is a drone? No, if

558
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: we know what a drone is, it's not a UFO, right.

559
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: I mean UFO is a technical description of something in

560
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: the sky that is unregistered by whatever the traffic control is.

561
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: Teenager flying a camera, right, But in this case that's

562
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: not so glamorous. It's the Navy. Pilots have seen weird

563
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: stuff in the sky, and because they're in the Navy,

564
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: we're trying to trust them more than you know, the

565
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: tin hat brigade. Um. But the real question is is

566
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: what they're seeing real or is it more likely that

567
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: their brains are being, you know, in some sense overwhelmed

568
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: by all the century data of flying that fast and

569
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: that high. Um, what's going on? Tell us? I don't

570
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: know why that step back per second to assume that, like,

571
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: for example, I've have not seen these latest articles in

572
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: the New York Times is there something new going on

573
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: in the world of UFO sightings and spotting. There is

574
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: a little bit. There's this sort of a long history

575
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: of Navy pilots seeing weird stuff and reporting it. And

576
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: there was like an incident in two thousand four around

577
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier where some pilots reported seeing something that could

578
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: do things that no plane could do. You know, it

579
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: could drop really really quickly towards the ocean, it could

580
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: disappear under the water and come back up, and the

581
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: pilots there said that it looked like like a big

582
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: tic tac And you know, these things happen occasionally people

583
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: brush them off. But recently the Navy released some footage,

584
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: some video of an encounter in two thousand two thousand

585
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: fifteen where the pilots actually got this stuff on video,

586
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: and it shows these aircraft doing some pretty weird stuff,

587
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: you know, making sudden stops and starts and turning really quickly,

588
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: dropping a really fast, accelerating really quickly, things that appear

589
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: to do things that we that humans couldn't survive, you know,

590
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: because humans can't survive very very fast accelerations. And so

591
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: there were these this footage and the Navy released it

592
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: to the public, and so it's out, there's on YouTube.

593
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: People like watching it and dissecting it. And and then

594
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: there was just very just a couple of weeks ago,

595
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: I think the Navy briefed a bunch of top lawmakers

596
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: in the United States, you know, about what is the

597
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: status of the UFO thing, and so it's sort of

598
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: come like into the mainstream, away from the fringes, so

599
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: that I guess that's the big news is that the

600
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: Navy is being kind of open about it, right, I

601
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: think I think that's what is throwing people off, that

602
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: it's openly talking about these sightings and it uploaded video, yeah, exactly.

603
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: And the Navy has now like an official policy for

604
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: pilots for how to report UFO sightings. Um. Whereas it

605
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: used to be like something I think pilots were loath

606
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: to admit, you know, because it made them seem crazy.

607
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: Now the Navy is encouraging pilots and giving them a

608
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: formal process to report this stuff so that we can

609
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,479
Speaker 1: get a clear picture for sort of what's going on,

610
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: which I think there's a lot about the times in

611
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: which we live that now you're not crazy if you

612
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: see a UFO, you're just being a good pilot. You're

613
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: probably crazy to be a pilot in the Navy. Maybe

614
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: a little bit. Uh No, I'm just kidding. There is

615
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: a relationship between this and AI actually, because it's the

616
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: same Senator Mark Warner. It's one of the people who

617
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: has called for a briefing from the Navy. Is also

618
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: today introducing something called dashboard, which stands for Designing Accounting

619
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: Safeguards to help broaden oversight and regulations of Data ACT.

620
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: And that was the man that is a golden acronym.

621
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: It is pretty good. Here's the guy who's out in

622
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: front on trying to compel technology companies to tell users

623
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: the value that generating from their data each month, like

624
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: literal cash value. But he's also the guy who, as

625
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: Carro said, called these call for these closed door hearings.

626
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're closed door, it maybe something going

627
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: on with the Navy about these UFO sightings. And his

628
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: spokesman said something like, it doesn't matter what they are,

629
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: whether it's drones or little green men. Senator Warner is

630
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: focused on keeping our pilots safe and getting Google to

631
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: paper back from my GEO location data. Well, I thought

632
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: this is really fascinating and I was wondering, like, what

633
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: do people out there think about UFOs? Do they think

634
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: it's evidence of aliens? Do they think that's impossible? So

635
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: I walked around campus a UC Irvine this morning actually

636
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: and asked folks what they thought about the latest UFFO

637
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: sightings and whether they thought aliens had ever visited the Earth.

638
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: Here's what people had to say. Do you think aliens

639
00:34:54,840 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: have visited us here on Earth? Uh? Not? Why not?

640
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: I don't have proof of that or any signs of

641
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: them vis kipping us. Okay, cool, I don't think so. No,

642
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: why not? It's because you would have known by then.

643
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: Like I'm not sure, like if we have actual evidence

644
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: what about UFOs, I don't know. It could be anything.

645
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: I think it's possible, but I don't think like there's

646
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: any reason to think that they have, um what about us?

647
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: I feel like that could be like just stuff in space, Like,

648
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: but I think it's possible that there's aliens and that

649
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: they visited us, but like, I don't have any reason

650
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: to believe it. I guess. I mean there's been that

651
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,720
Speaker 1: whole thing is scenative, right, So I think it's definitely possible,

652
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: but I don't know if there's definitely proof that it

653
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: has happened. If they're here on Earth and flying around,

654
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: why don't they just make themselves known right on this

655
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: Their waiting for like us to become intelligence pecis by

656
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: their standards. No, no, why not? Because I'm Egyptian, So

657
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: that would mean that the pyramids would play and I

658
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: don't like that. I think there's explanations that don't involved extraterrestrials.

659
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: But again, I don't know to this generally skeptical of

660
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: the alien hypothesis. Skeptical is a good word. Yeah, so

661
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: some pretty well a wide range of answers they're right,

662
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: and a lot of people seem very skeptical, and some

663
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: people seem very Egyptian and strong opinions about us. I

664
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: think he took that as a cultural threat. You know,

665
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 1: pyramids they appropriated by extraterrestrials. Yeah, but I think overall

666
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of skepticism. I think, you know, people

667
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 1: have heard about stories UFOs, but I think they imagine,

668
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: you know, if aliens came, it would be a thing

669
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: you'd see about, you'd read about in the cover of

670
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: the New York Times. You'd see the aliens meeting the president,

671
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: right like it wouldn't just be one story and then

672
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 1: fizzle away. So I think because people have heard of

673
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: these stories and lots of times, then they sort of

674
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: turned into nothing. There's a lot of skepticism now built

675
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: up in the general public about whether aliens have visited,

676
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: and that would be the time for aliens to strike,

677
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: by the way, that's right, spoonful for a bunch of times,

678
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: and then when our guard is down they can swoop

679
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: in that why why would you imagine they strike? Maybe

680
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: they're just visiting here as a scientific delegation to give

681
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: us the secrets of the universe, right, But first I

682
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: want to play practical jokes on us. Is that what

683
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: you're saying. One of the things I found interesting about

684
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: this story, um, is that the navy pilots, very few

685
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: of them have actually seen these things with their own eyes.

686
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: What happens is their radar systems or their weapons systems

687
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: will will tell them. They will tell them as something

688
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: there will see an object, and then they'll fly down

689
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: to where the objects meant to be and they'll be

690
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 1: nothing that they can see with their own eyes. Although

691
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: there wasn't in one case where this kind of bull

692
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: flews right straight past the window of the airplane, So

693
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: short of aliens, like, what are the explicable phenomena of

694
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: physics which would explain what's happening here? Yeah, this is

695
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,959
Speaker 1: really fun because I looked this up and I said,

696
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: like what experts say? And the experts have like a

697
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: list of explanations, but they're all very generic. You know,

698
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: they're like, well, pilots fatigue, basically hallucination. But you know,

699
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: we see these videos, right, so there's something there. It's

700
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: not just the pilots being being tired, um or they

701
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: say like weird atmospheric effects or you know, um classified

702
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: government programs testing new kinds of aircraft. Basically your list

703
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: of generic explanations. And at the end they always say,

704
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 1: of course it could be aliens, but you know that's

705
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: very unlikely, and so this just sort of this go

706
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: to list. But the problem with those explanations for me

707
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: is that they're not specific. They're not saying, well, I

708
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: looked at this video and here's an alternative explanation. There's

709
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: no specific, credible hypothesis that can say here's how this

710
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: event happened, here's how that event happened. It's just sort

711
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: of a general sort of the same reaction that the

712
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 1: folks on the streets had. It's sort of a general skepticism,

713
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: so like, well, I'm just not going to believe it

714
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: unless I have three or four ten pieces of data

715
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: that show me it's aliens. They're willing to sort of

716
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 1: scoff off one event, which is fair, right, I don't

717
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 1: know is it fair? I mean, if aliens came to Earth,

718
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: how would it happen? Right? Like, I think that's really

719
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: more interesting question, Like say aliens had come to Earth, right,

720
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: what would that be? Like? Why would they be here

721
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: and sort of zip around playing games over the ocean

722
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: near fighter um, near U. S. Navy fighters and not

723
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: make themselves known? Right? That's sort of a like in

724
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: what scenario does that happen? To me? That's sort of

725
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: the interesting question. You mean they could be like tourists

726
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: or scientists studying that kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. I

727
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: mean we talked a minute ago about, you know, the

728
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: likelihood of finding other life. My personal belief, not based

729
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: on any science at all, is that the universe is

730
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: filled with life and because it just seems very unlikely

731
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: that the Earth is the only place for this to happen,

732
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: and we know how many earthlike planets there are, and

733
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 1: so I imagine that the universe is filled with life.

734
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: And then the question is like, why haven't the alien visited?

735
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: And you might say, oh, they're really far away. But

736
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: it turns out that the universe is um is pretty

737
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 1: old in comparison to its size, so it doesn't actually

738
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 1: take that long to explore. Like if you're a single

739
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: civilization and you want to explore the whole galaxy, it

740
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: doesn't take billions of years. It only takes tens and thousands,

741
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of years, and the galaxy is very

742
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: old in comparison to that number. So it sort of

743
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: feels like they should be out there, that should be exploring,

744
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: we should have been contacted. So then if you wonder,

745
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: like why haven't we been, you have to come up

746
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: with explanations like there they have come, but they're hiding

747
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: from us because, like you say, maybe they're scientists, they're

748
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: observing us, or they're tourists or whatever. When you say

749
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: it's older than it's large, you mean it grows very

750
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: slowly and therefore, um it's more navigable. What's what's the

751
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: relationship between the age and the size of the universe.

752
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: That that makes it more likely that we should have

753
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: been contacted. I mean that the galaxy is big, right,

754
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: and so you might think, oh, it's it's too far

755
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: to get to those stars, you know, like the nearest

756
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: stars tens of light years away or light years away,

757
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: and the other side of the galaxies is thousands and

758
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: thousands of light years And that's true, and that means

759
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 1: it would take a long time to get there. But

760
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: the but it's been there for a long time. That's

761
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: what I mean that it's older than it is large.

762
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: But we also don't have any life forms that live

763
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: longer than We don't have life forms that live hundreds

764
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: of thousands of years. Sure, but civilizations might, right, And

765
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: and that's another question, is like it could be the

766
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: civilizations only last or fifty years before they get taken

767
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: over by AI or kill themselves in nuclear holocausts. That's

768
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: certainly another possibility. Let's bleak. I mean, but you have

769
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: to find hopefully, hopefully the stars will align and mercury

770
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: will be in the right phase will survive. But you

771
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: are confronted with that fact, the fact that the universe

772
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: seems like it's filled with places for life to flourish

773
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: and it's not that big. So life, if it had developed,

774
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: might have found us already, but it hasn't, And so

775
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 1: you have to try to answer that question, like why

776
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: haven't we been just full on contacted by alien visitors? Um?

777
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: But it certainly it's true that if aliens come to

778
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: visit us rather than us finding them, it's very likely

779
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: they're more technologically advanced than we are, which means they

780
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: might have the technology to stay hidden. But you know,

781
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: you have to wonder about the motives they're like, why

782
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 1: would they say hidden if I went to another planet,

783
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: if I found intelligent life on another planet, I don't

784
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: want to go talk to them, meet their scientists, talk physics,

785
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: you know, figure out what math they figured out that

786
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: we haven't, um, why stay quiet? So it kind of

787
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: sounds like you're saying, Daniel, that it is physically and

788
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: mathematically likely that there are other life forms out there,

789
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: But it's it seems unlikely that they would come visitors

790
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: and be so kind of weird and secretive about it, right,

791
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: like that would have these erful signings without a big

792
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: splash or that you know, we would see these small

793
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: glimpses of them. But and that's it, Yeah, exactly. And then,

794
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: of course, you know, make some assumptions about alien psychology,

795
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: which certainly I'm not justified in making. But it seems

796
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 1: unlikely to me that they would come all this way, um,

797
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: spend all that energy and then just sort of like

798
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: not engage, um, and that they would be able to

799
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: they would come all this way, not engage and yet

800
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: still spotted. That seems sort of like clumsy and immatur

801
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: ish in contrast with the amazing technology required to get here, right,

802
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 1: You're like, it sounds like a bad plot point. There's

803
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: also the assumption that we would know how to understand them.

804
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a whole other question, Right, do we

805
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: even speak to them? Could we understand their language? Maybe

806
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: there are aliens that are here, we just don't know

807
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: how to understand them yet or see them because they're

808
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: maybe in a different visual plane. I just always wonder

809
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,959
Speaker 1: maybe it's not them, it's us, it's me. That would

810
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: be their answer, Yeah, what did you want to talk

811
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: to this? It's not you? Well, we you know that.

812
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: That touches on the whole different, fascinating question, which is

813
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: could we even recognize alien life? It's possible we could

814
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: land on another planet and there could be life going on,

815
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: but it's just of a form that's so literally alien

816
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: to us that we don't even recognize it because we're

817
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: looking for life that's recognizable, because we've only ever seen

818
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: life on Earth, and life could be you know, could

819
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: take place on much longer time skills, you could have

820
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: life that you know, where the beings last for hundreds

821
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: of thousands of years, and their metabolism is crazy slow,

822
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: and so we don't even see them moving right, They're

823
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 1: they're talking to us, but they're they speak so slowly

824
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: we only get a tiny little snippet of it. You know.

825
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: It's we have to broaden our minds when we think

826
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: about life in the universe because we've only ever seen

827
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: this one example. Why is it I've always wanted to

828
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: know that water is considered to be the crucial ingredient

829
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: for a life. I mean, is it possible we'll look

830
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 1: back on water as the astrology of nine And why?

831
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: Why do why are we so convinced that two hydrogen

832
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: one oxygen particle which supports our life, is crucial to

833
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 1: all life throughout the whole galaxy. Yeah, it's a great

834
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: question and the only argument really is that all life

835
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,479
Speaker 1: we've ever seen relied on water, But again that's only

836
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,439
Speaker 1: life on Earth, and so you're totally right. It could

837
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: be that there's a completely different way for things to

838
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: be alive and that doesn't require water, or like they

839
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: can live in frozen water, or they can live in

840
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: vapor or something like that. And so, you know, one

841
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: question is that there is there earthlike life out there,

842
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: and that would be fascinating because it's more likely we

843
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: could speak to them and learn physics from them. But

844
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: another question is are there weird other forms of life?

845
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 1: You know? Is there life in the sun in currents

846
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: of energy in the sun? Totally possible, right, so people

847
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: are living off of the sun. Essentially, the sun could

848
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 1: be alive for all we know. Australians, I've often wondered

849
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: with their aliens. To our Australian listeners, we love you.

850
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: I feel like our questions of an answer. I'm curious,

851
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: Kara and Oz you sort of said that this idea

852
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: of life and other planet's really trips you up. Can

853
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit bit about why that

854
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: trips you up and why you brought these questions to us.

855
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 1: I think the question of life is is very relevant

856
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: to our sleep Bokers podcasts and AI because you know,

857
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: people see autonomy and algorithms, they see an output, whether

858
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: it's an A I'm making a song, or whether it's

859
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: an AIM a king a diagnosis, or whether it's an

860
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: AI doing a job that was previously done by human

861
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,959
Speaker 1: And the natural response, as we talked about, is to say, okay, well,

862
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 1: you know, to assign personhood and say okay, that's life.

863
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: But is it? I mean, it's such a big definitional

864
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: question here what is life? And one of the questions

865
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: we're going to look at in our final episode of

866
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 1: the series is there a fundamental difference between carbon life

867
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: US and silicon life computers. And if we do believe

868
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: that such a thing as silican life exists, well it

869
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: doesn't require oxygen or water to exist. And so I

870
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: think the question which is which has been haunting our

871
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: our podcast is what are we? And how do we

872
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: define ourselves? And as humans we've always you know, I'd

873
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: like to define ourselves in opposition or in the absence

874
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: of so you know, if you look at the history

875
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: of theology in the you know, in the in the

876
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: sixteenth century, God War, a total explanation until you know,

877
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: you had people who came to challenge the status co

878
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: about the creation and the seven days and where the

879
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 1: earth was flat, and so this concept of the God

880
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: of the gaps emerged, where every phenomenon that couldn't be

881
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: explained was was attributed to God until the number of

882
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: phenomena that couldn't be explained shranked the number that you know,

883
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: the God who was only responsible for those wasn't wasn't

884
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,399
Speaker 1: so much for God anymore. Um. And so I think

885
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: for me, the reason why we wanted to get your

886
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: incredible insight today into into life on other planets is

887
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: because it really starts to put on the same strings

888
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: that we're pulling on, which is, you know, what is

889
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: life and how do we define ourselves? And you know,

890
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: this desire, this human quest to explore the universe or

891
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: to understand how AI works is you know, is constantly

892
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 1: in search of a of a question I think which

893
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: often comes back to who we are? Do AI lives matter? Basically?

894
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: Well that and also are our lives at risk? I

895
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: think it's a lot of people's big question. Not at risk,

896
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: but you know, will we be dominated? In a certain sense,

897
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: some of us obsessed about what life means here on Earth.

898
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: Maybe there are there's clear evidence of life out there,

899
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: or well some of us obsessed about life out there,

900
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: maybe there's really interesting and amazing things redefining life right

901
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: here on Earth. Rate I think it's always interesting to

902
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: think about the way in which, you know, alien invasion

903
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: is depicted in films and in science fiction. I mean

904
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: not always. I can't speak so so much on science

905
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 1: fiction and literature, but um, the idea that it's somewhat sinister,

906
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: I think is what's interesting to me. That we fear

907
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: what we don't understand, especially when it resembles us in

908
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: some way, right, which is the same with robots. I mean,

909
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: if you look at truly again going back to this,

910
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: you know, the sort of Boston Dynamics examples, If you

911
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: look at some of these robots that they're developing, it's uncanny.

912
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: Not that they it's the uncanny valley. It's not so

913
00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: much as they look like human beings, but they look

914
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: almost like dogs or almost like human beings. And that's

915
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 1: what's really scary about it, Not that it's some robot

916
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: version of a person. It's a robot that looks like

917
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: what a person is supposed to be and it makes

918
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: you feel, right, it makes you feel This week, there's

919
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: been there's been two stories, right. There's been the continuing

920
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: interest in the UFOs and the navy hearings, and has

921
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 1: also been the methane emerging from Mars. And people don't

922
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: care so much about the methane emerging from Mars because

923
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,919
Speaker 1: it's not human like and even if it does signify life,

924
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: it doesn't signify any kind of life that we can

925
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: computer similar to our own. Whereas these things flying through

926
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: the sky obviously you know, bring to mind pilots, that's right.

927
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: And so for those of you who are unaware about

928
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: the methane issue, people have found methane on the atmosphere

929
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: of Mars, and that's usually a hallmark of microbial life,

930
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: that these little bugs are producing methane as they metabolize something.

931
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: And it's convincing because methane doesn't last very long, and

932
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: so it's produced, it breaks down the atmos fear, which

933
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: means if you find it, he was recently made. And

934
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: some people wonder if there's microbial life under the ground

935
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: on Mars, and that there is another fascinating question about

936
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 1: whether there's life elsewhere in the universe that we talked

937
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: about once in this podcast, which is are we the aliens?

938
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: Because there's one school of thought that says maybe life

939
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: began on Mars and then came to Earth as microbes

940
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 1: and then flourished. Right, we don't understand the process for

941
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: how this began, and it's certainly possible for rocks to

942
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: get blasted off the surface of Mars and land on Earth.

943
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: So one not too crazy theory is that we are

944
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: all Martians. Well that's the immigration debate right there. No,

945
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 1: I mean it is when we when we talk about

946
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: the United States, No wall will protect us from Mars.

947
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: All right, Maybe we should say that for the next podcast.

948
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: But thank you so much Kara and Oz for joining

949
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: us here to the m bringing your questions. So if

950
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: people want to find your podcast, what do they search

951
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: for Sleepwalkers podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get

952
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: your podcasts or the i Art radio app, Yeah, and

953
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: usta crow or Instagram, Twitter? All right, Well, thank you

954
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 1: for joining us today and we look forward to hearing

955
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: your podcast. Thanks retreat to talk to you. If you

956
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: still have a question after listening to all these explanations,

957
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: please drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.

958
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at

959
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge That's One Word, or email us at

960
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Thanks for listening,

961
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is

962
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from

963
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio, a Apple Podcasts,

964
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.