1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: M what's involuntary my celibates. I'm Robert Evans, host Behind 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: the Bastards, the show where we tell you everything you 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: don't know about the very worst people in all of history. 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: And one of those very worst people in all of 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: history is the person who cut the hair of the 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: dog of my guest today, Jamie Loftus. Jamie, if I'm 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, your dog got a terrible haircut 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: and is ugly. Now, yeah, I think we can all. 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: I mean, you saw the picture. He looks like Lord Farquad. 10 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: He used to be one of the sexiest dogs in 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: the game, really getting and it was like this was 12 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: the first time that he was taken on a walk 13 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: and received no compliments because he looks like ship. Now 14 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: he's going to have to, you know, develop a personality. Yeah, 15 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: he looks like, as you said, an in cell, which 16 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: is why I picked the opening for the show that 17 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: I opened Perfect Circle. Yeah, he is now going to 18 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: start really yammering on about bone structure. Yeah, he's gonna 19 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: rent a van and ram a. It's probably not something 20 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: worth joking about. Yeah, the dog looks like shit. But 21 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, Jamie, because of our our subject for this week, 22 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: I've learned that if you want your dog to get 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: compliments again, the answer is not to get him a 24 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: better haircut. The answer is to just simply change all 25 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: of America's standards towards dog beauty. And today we're going 26 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: to talk about the man who can tell you how 27 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: to do that. Are subject today is Edward Burne's. Yes, Yes, 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: do you know who Edward Burne's was? No, I'm coming 29 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: in colder than usual on this one. I'm I love it, 30 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: I love it. Well, let's let's talk about Eddie b 31 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: ed burn Uh, Sophie. We'll pull up a picture of 32 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: him and I'll cue Sophie and on when to show 33 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: it to you? And you can you can? You can 34 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: give me that judgment. I'm gonna I'm gonna read my 35 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: little intro first, though. So in common parlance, the term 36 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: founding fathers is applied to the men who literally founded 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: this country, either at the end of a rifle or 38 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: a pen, and from a literal standpoint, that does make sense, 39 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: whatever else you want to say about them. Dudes like 40 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin did start this 41 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: thing we call the United States, but the country they 42 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: found it only bears a passing resemblance to the one 43 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: we live in today. So for my money, we should 44 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: expand our ideas of the founders to include the people 45 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: who are most responsible for making America into the place 46 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: it is right now, at this moment in time, for 47 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: all of the people who live here. And by that 48 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: measure of the term, it's possible that no single man 49 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: deserves to be called a founding father of this nation 50 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: more than Edward Burnet's. Eddie liked to be known as 51 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: the father of public relations, which is only part true. 52 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: He and another guy named Ivy Lee both have a 53 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: pretty solid claim on that title, But calling what Berness 54 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: did PR gives an incomplete picture of the man's accomplishment. 55 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: Edward Burnet's invented mass manipulation of the American populace to 56 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: achieve specific ends, and in doing so, he invented modern America. 57 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: So this is the guy we're talking about today. The 58 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: first PR man I mean, isn't just saying you're the 59 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: father of PR, even though you're not just good PR. 60 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: It's fucking fantastic PR. Yeah, that's just good spin Berne's 61 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: that's just good evidence. Otherwise, and I'm not going to 62 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: look it up. I am. He lived to be a 63 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: hundred and three years old. Yeah, he he never died 64 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: until he finally did. Like he should have died so 65 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: much earlier because he was a real piece of ship, 66 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: but he just kept being alive. Yeah, it really does. Yeah, 67 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: like the like the toxicity of a person can really 68 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: preserve you well. And he's one of these terrible people 69 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: who like made really good healthcare decisions for himself and 70 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: was always a very healthy person, which are like the 71 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: worst terrible people, like the health nuts who were monsters. Yeah. 72 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: Like when Steve Jobs is like slashing his green jee 73 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: You're like, get over yourself. Yeah, it's like because I 74 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: need to live forever. Yeah, But unlike Jobs, Berne's picked 75 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: health stuff that actually worked. Apparently, sick roast Robert, take 76 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: that job, Steve Jobs, and you're dead ass alright. Edward 77 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: Louis Berne's was born in Vienna, Austria, in ninety one. 78 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: His father, Eli and mother Anna Freud. Berne's came from 79 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: a middle class Jewish background. On his mother's side, they 80 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: were perhaps a little bit above middle class due to 81 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: a very famous relative, her brother Sigmund As in Sigmund Freud, 82 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: the guy who thinks we all want to funk our moms. 83 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: Sigmund Freud is his uncle. Yeah, whoa are they closed? 84 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah they were fucking tight. Yeah they hung out. 85 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: There was Actually he helped Freud like get along when 86 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: he was like older and like he was having trouble 87 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: making money, like Berne's helped sell Freud's books and stuff 88 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 1: over in the US and get him speaking deals and ships. 89 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: So like they were like, like, fucking tight, I'm doing that. 90 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: You can't see the gesture over the audio, but I'm 91 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: doing that. That gesture everyone knows, the tight gesture your fingers. Yeah, 92 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: that is already deeply fucked. Okay, so your uncle is Freud. 93 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: He's peddling all these this weird stuff that I sort 94 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: of agree with, but mostly think it's more of a 95 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: hymn thing. Freud is always like like the first twenty 96 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: of everything he says is right, and then he just 97 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: goes off the rails, right, and then he starts talking 98 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: about how he wants to fuck his mom, and you're like, yeah, okay, 99 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: that's fine, but don't stop projecting on the rest of us. Yeah, 100 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: he's like a guy who's really good at like building roads, 101 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: but doesn't know where to build the roads too, so 102 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: he just he just randomly starts making roads in the 103 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: middle of nowhere and they lead to cliffs and stuff. 104 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: That's that's that's Sigmund Freud, father of psychiatry. Also a 105 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: coke addict, and I guess coke addicts like blazing random true. 106 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he was way into cocaine. Um yeah, super 107 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: huge into cocaine. The first book he wrote was called 108 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: On Cocaine, which was about doing cocaine. That's where psychiatry 109 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: comes from. That's hardcore and I appreciate him more than 110 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: I did one minute. Oh yeah, yeah, he's my favorite 111 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: coke addict. That isn't a Hollywood producer. That's a cool 112 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: like that's if some like a contemporary like thought leader 113 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: wrote a book called like Jeweling for a long time 114 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: like that. Man. All right, I'm a born so he's 115 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: he's the nephew of the world's most famous coke addict 116 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: slash scientist. Now, Austria in the eighteen nineties was not 117 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: exactly the best place and time to be Jewish. When 118 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: Eddie was one, his parents moved the family to New 119 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: York City, where his father went on to become a 120 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: moderately successful grain merchant. Growing up, Edwards family was not rich, 121 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: and there were some moments of financial strain when times 122 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: were tough, but for the most part they managed an 123 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: upper middle class existence. Now. His father, Eli Bernes, was 124 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: not abusive or violent to his children, but he was 125 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: a very German father, and that meant he was seen 126 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: as more of a force of nature by his kids 127 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: than like a loving and supportive parent. Years later, Edward 128 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: would write quote the household during the day, it around mother. 129 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: In the evenings and on holidays and Sundays, my father 130 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: dominated everything and everyone, intimidating all of us with his 131 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: unpredictable temperament. My earliest recollection of him is that of 132 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: a heavy set man leaving the house every weekday and 133 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: Saturday morning for a place called downtown to make money. 134 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: My mother was constantly on the alert to prevent explosions 135 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: of father's temper. Cooking odors were anathema. He would sniff 136 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: the air like a lion when he stepped into the 137 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: vestibule of the house each evening if someone had forgotten 138 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: to close the dumb waiter, and odors sifted up from 139 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: the kitchen through the house. He would call out and 140 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: allowed stern voice open the windows. My mother would rush 141 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: to the windows and throw them open, regardless of outside weather. 142 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: I never knew why my father was so obsessed with details. 143 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: So that's that's his dad, That's how he relied. And 144 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: it's worth noting he capitalizes the M and mother, but 145 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: does not capitalize the F and father. Another another sick 146 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: burn there, I don't I mean, yeah, it's his dad. 147 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: Just sounds like God, yeah, the force of nature thing. 148 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: It's so weird. I cannot really at all is someone 149 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: with a very meek father. But it seems like okay, 150 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: so so his dad needs attention and his mom is 151 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: terrified of him, and I'm sure that bodes very well 152 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: for their personal life. Yeah. Yeah, And it's one of 153 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: those things that voted like this is actually a very 154 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,119 Speaker 1: German thing, Like the way his family worked was pretty 155 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: normal for German families. A couple of years ago, I 156 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: interviewed an old guy who had been in the Hitler 157 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: youth as a kid and was like fourteen when World 158 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: War Two ended, and when he talked about his childhood, 159 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: he made a point of noting that, like you didn't 160 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: speak to your father directly unless he asked you a question. 161 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: Like on Sundays when the family had a single egg, 162 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: his dad would eat the egg and they would all watch, 163 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: Like you didn't start eating food until your dad started eating, 164 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: Like dad was like the dictator of the family. And 165 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,479 Speaker 1: this guy was like that was pretty normal in Germany 166 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: at the time. It was like a way, like especially 167 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: turn of the century Germany. And I really hate that 168 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: egg things. Yeah, it's funked up, right, I ever heard that. 169 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: It's super fun up and it just like it feels 170 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: like weirdly symbolic, even if they don't mean it to be. 171 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: They're like, oh, yeah, no, we have to watch daddy 172 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: eat an egg. Well, and it's this guy who again 173 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: like grew up in the Hitler youth, connected uh, the 174 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: way that like families were structured in Germany to how 175 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: fascism was able to get such a hold on the country. 176 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: He was like, we were already kindly used to this 177 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: idea because of how we grew up with our fathers 178 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: like that. Anyway, that's the connection this guy made when 179 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: I read about Bun daddy eat an egg. Never watch 180 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: your father eat an egg. I never do it. My 181 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: dad and I used to do this weird egg thing. 182 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: But it was it wasn't like that. It was like 183 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: my dad and I used to do this weird egg thing. 184 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: Is a sentence that can go a lot of waste. 185 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: What if I just what if I chose to just 186 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: like not getting more specifically, anyways, I used to do 187 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: this weird egg thing. We used to do this this 188 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: We used to eat and we would each have an 189 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: over easy egg and then we would time we would 190 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: both swallow yolks hole but at the same time, and 191 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: then we'd high five. That's horrible, German. That's the worst 192 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: story ever. I'm I'm making the rule right now that 193 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: if anyone listening to this ever sees their father eat 194 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: an egg, start pelting him with rocks. No more fathers 195 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: are allowed to eat eggs. You're enabling fascism if you 196 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: watch daddy eating, stop your parents. You're just your dad 197 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: from eating eggs. I guess it's fine for your mom, 198 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: unless that gets creepy. Yeah, anyway, I'm going to read 199 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: another quote Burns wrote about his dad. My sisters and 200 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: I stood in awe of our father. We observed silence 201 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: in his presence until we were addressed When he left 202 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: the house in the morning, he called goodbye to us 203 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: from the hall. We then ran from wherever we were 204 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: and pecked a farewell on his bearded cheek. After dark 205 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: he returned. I saw him for a few moments after supper, 206 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: before I was sent to bed. He occasionally raised his 207 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: voice to us in commanding tones, which had the shock 208 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: effect of a New York traffic cop on a timid motorist. 209 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: His awesome personality made corporal punishment unnecessary, so he doesn't 210 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: get hit at all by his dad. There's no no abuse. 211 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: But it's like this is the strictness of the family. 212 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: He grows up and Edward hates it, Like he really 213 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: doesn't like his parents relationship. He doesn't seem to like 214 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: the way his dad does things, and he grows up 215 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: wanting to live a life as different from the life 216 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: as parents lived as possible. That's like an early motivator 217 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: for him. Yeah, I wonder what, I wonder what old 218 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: Sigmunds making of this marriage. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. 219 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: I don't think I have. I I didn't come across 220 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: any evidence of Sigmunds psychoanalyzing his own nephew. Um he 221 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: seems mostly worried about money. Yeah, probably just something about fucking. 222 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: Should have fucked your mom, kid, This wouldn't have happened. 223 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: Classic Sigmund Freud, always telling kids to funk their mom. So. Uh. 224 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: Eli wanted his son Eddie to get into agriculture and 225 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: pick a career that was in line with the family 226 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 1: business of selling grain. But Eddie had zero desire to 227 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: do anything even vaguely related to agricultural work. He graduated 228 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: from the Agricultural College at Cornell University in nineteen twelve. 229 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: Uh So he was this is something that everyone listening 230 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: should be able to identify with. He was like yet 231 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: another middle class kid with a degree in a field 232 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: that he didn't want to work in. Uh like half 233 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: of my friends. Uh. He worked for a brief time 234 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: decoding cables about the grain trade and living off of 235 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: dad's money in New York until one day in December 236 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve, when he wound up meeting his old friend 237 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: Fred Robinson on the morning trolley. Now he and Fred 238 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: had worked on the school paper back when they were 239 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: in high school, and now Fred's dad had handed his 240 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: son control of two academic journals. He happened to own 241 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 1: the Medical Review of Reviews and the Dietectic and Hygienic Gazette. 242 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: Fred asked his old friend Eddie for help in running 243 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: both papers. Next, according to the Father of Spin by 244 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: Larry Tye quote, they used the Medical Review to argue 245 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: against women wearing corsets with stays and to encourage shower baths. 246 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: They published expert opinions on health controversies, a regular, relatively 247 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: novel approach, and they write something even newer to promote 248 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: the journal and its advertisers, distributing free copies to most 249 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: of the hundred and thirty seven thousand licensed physicians in 250 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: the United States. So Eddie gets like a chance to 251 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: break into publishing and immediately is this guy with new 252 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,599 Speaker 1: fresh ideas that nobody had thought of before. This is 253 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: generally positive so far. Yeah, nothing, nothing bad. Putting women 254 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: in cages and let them take a shower every once 255 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: in a while. Yeah he is, Eddie. Eddie Burnet's is 256 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: a feminist icon. By the way. Wow, interesting, Yeah he is. 257 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: He's a weird feminist icon and a problematic one. But 258 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: credit where it's due. He was like an early guy 259 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: being like these these these these chest prisons we put 260 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: women in our are seemed like a bad idea. Perhaps 261 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: he'll get angry, maybe they're uncomfortable. Well that's that's I mean, 262 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: I guess that's the least you can do with a 263 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: with a medical journal. They're just like, hey, stop putting 264 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: your wife in prison. Yeah, don't imprison her lungs in 265 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,439 Speaker 1: a cage. Now I'm on. I'm on team Eddie so far. Yeah, yeah, 266 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: we're all on team Eddie so far. Uh So. About 267 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: two months into his new job, Eddie Burnet's came across 268 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: a review written by a doctor about a play that 269 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: was just now starting to take off in New York, 270 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: or that had just been written. It hadn't even performed yet, 271 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: and the play was called Damaged Goods. It was about 272 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: a man with syphilis who gets married and spawns a 273 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: syphilitic child. Now, this is about the most risque subject 274 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: you can imagine. At the time, people in nineteen twelve 275 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: did not talk about STDs, and like any context, like 276 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: doctors didn't like talking about them. Um. So the play 277 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: both dealt with the subject frankly and dealt with the 278 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: common remedies people attempted to use to deal with the illness. 279 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: So it was like like a groundbreaking thing that you 280 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: would like discuss STDs at all in a popular play 281 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: the rent of its time. Yeah, it was the rent 282 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: of its time exactly. It really is like kind of 283 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: in line with that. Yeah. So Eddie and Fred published 284 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: that review, but decided that just like publicizing the play 285 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: itself wasn't enough. So Burne's reached out to a guy 286 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: named Richard Bennett, who was a popular actor who had 287 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: expressed an interest in taking part in Damaged Goods. And 288 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: he told Bennett, quote, the editors of the Medical Review 289 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: of Reviews support your praiseworthy intention to fight sex pruriency 290 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: in the United States by producing bruise play Damaged Goods, 291 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: you can count on our help. So, because of his 292 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: really traditional upbringing and like how how kind of cloistered 293 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: his family life had been, Eddie grew up wanting to 294 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: like break as many taboos as humanly possible, and Damaged 295 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: Goods gave him a perfect opportunity to do this. So 296 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: he attached himself and the Medical Review of Reviews to 297 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: the project as a sort of proto pr firm. His 298 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: plan was to essentially gain funding to produce the play 299 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: um and to get people to go to it and 300 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: make it a financial success success by turning the play 301 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: into a cause celeb where basically like he was, he 302 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: was staging as like, if you go to this play, 303 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: you're fighting the cause of prurians. See, you're like fighting prudishness. Yeah. Yeah, 304 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: it's literally Rent, so where people are like, yeah, I 305 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: helped I've seen Rent before. Yeah, I helped raise awareness 306 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: of AIDS by watching this play. That's exactly the same 307 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: thing Bern's is having people do, but in nineteen freaking twelve. Yeah, 308 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: damaged goods unrelated is just a great name for anything. 309 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: I would see any damaged goods. I would see anything 310 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: called damaged goods. Yeah, even if it was it kind 311 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: of sounds like a hair band, I would still see it, though. 312 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: I would see it if it was a movie starring 313 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: Jeremy Renner. H And I'm I'm not a Renner a 314 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: Ritter fan, but you're not a Jeremy Renner fan. I'm 315 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: not I'm not a Renter stand Yeah. Oh god, didn't 316 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: he like try stand up or something. He's like tried 317 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: stand up and he hates women. Love that. I don't know, 318 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: but he is. I saw one picture of him from 319 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: the New Avengers movie. And I thought that guy looks 320 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: like damaged Goods when he when he had the giant 321 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: Samurai tattoo on his arm. That's some damaged Goods, right, 322 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: I think. So that's the phase of Damaged good Jeremy 323 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: Renner with a giant Samurai tattoo. There is a brief 324 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: amount of time where both Jeremy Renner and and Hate 325 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: were like hitting up bar shows that it was just 326 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: like can you get out of here? Like go get get, 327 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: get especially canceled. I don't know. I think Jeremy Renner 328 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: was born canceled, and that's what gives him his great power. 329 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: Born to be canceled will be the name of my 330 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 1: next play. That's his other arm tattoo, his second sleeve. 331 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: So Edward Burnet's for the Medical Review of Reviews Sociological 332 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: Fund Committee at age twenty one uh and like the 333 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: Sociological Fund Committee was essentially like the organization he made 334 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: to fund the play Damaged good So he raised money 335 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: from people like John Rockefeller and the Vanderbilts in order 336 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: to put on the show. His plan was wildly successful, 337 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: and the Sociological Fund Committee raised huge amounts of money. 338 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: Damaged Goods was a hit, and it inspired Berne's to 339 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: launch a series of other plays aimed at exposing other 340 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: utra aspects of society, drugs, white slavery, anything that stirred controversy. 341 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: After tasting success for the first time in his life, 342 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: Eddie took the opportunity to travel to Austria and visit 343 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: his famous uncle, Sigmund. They talked and walked and traded 344 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: ideas about the functioning of the human mind. When Eddie 345 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: got back to New York in late nineteen thirteen, he'd 346 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: become obsessed with his uncle's idea about how unconscious drives 347 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: from childhood impact the way people behave as adults. Burns 348 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: realized that if you could figure out what unconscious drives 349 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: motivated people, he could manipulate those people on a massive scale. 350 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: So he starts with like, I'm gonna get people to 351 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: see this play about syphilis by convincing them that it's 352 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: like an act of like a humanitarian act to watch 353 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: this this piece of entertainment that's successful. So he starts 354 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: doing it with other things drugs and white slavery and stuff, 355 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: and he's really just titillating people, but he makes them 356 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,479 Speaker 1: feel like they're accomplishing something, and he realizes that like 357 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: he's tapped into some sort of drive people have to 358 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: do better. So then goes to Austria talks to his 359 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: uncle sneaky things. They're just like, you're super woke, but 360 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: what you don't know is that I'm taking all of 361 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: the money. Like okay, well exactly. Well so his first 362 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: project after getting back was a comedic play called Daddy 363 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: Long Legs, which basically seems you're back on now come 364 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: for a second. The descriptions of it make it seem 365 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: like it's just like almost a shot for shot rip 366 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: off of Little or fan Anny. Like the plot is 367 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: literally that a poor girl comes up from the street 368 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: and gets adopted into wealth and privilege. Um so, obviously 369 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, probably for some weird aspect of nineteen twelve, 370 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: like thirteen vernacular. Um now, you may notice that the 371 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: idea of a rip off of Little or Fannnny that's 372 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: not at all risque. It's not like syphilis or white 373 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: slavery or anything like that. Uh So, how is Eddie 374 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: going to make people feel like going to this show 375 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: is activism? If if it's just about some some poor 376 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: kid getting adopted by a rich guy. I know, all right, 377 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: well he found a way. Yeah, he found a way, 378 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: uh a little bit. Basically, he he uses as an 379 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: excuse to launch like a charity campaign aimed at encouraging adoption. 380 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: So like this is like He's like, okay, this play itself. 381 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: There's nothing risque about it. So I can make people 382 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: feel good by making them feel like buying tickets to 383 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: this is supporting the cause of getting poor kids adopted 384 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: by rich kids or rich parents and stuff. Um. So 385 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: he forms groups on college campuses and high schools to 386 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: raise money that's aimed specifically at getting like private middle 387 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: class and upper middle class families to take in orphans. Um. 388 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: One of the colleges he goes to is Vassar, and 389 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: he arranges a meeting with some influential undergraduates and gets 390 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: like a writing in the front page of a upland newspapers. Um. 391 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: But they only donate about fifteen cents of money, which 392 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: is fine. He's not actually trying to raise money for anything. 393 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: There's no actual charity here. He just wants to be 394 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: able to say Vasser supports this charity campaign, which they yeah, yeah, exactly, 395 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 1: And Vasser gets really pissed at him, but the stories 396 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: are already on the front page. There's no there's no 397 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: turning it back. So like this is the tactic this 398 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: guy invents um, which is you may recognize as familiar 399 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: with the way things work today sort of. Um, so yeah, 400 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: he's he's, he's he's he's a trend setter. Uh, he's 401 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: he's established, like the way pr out of work, where 402 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: it's like I wanna make it seem like these fancy 403 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: institutions support what I'm doing. So I'm just going to 404 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: take a picture with a couple of people there, and 405 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: folks will read between the lines and assume the college 406 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: supports what we're doing and assume there's a real charity, 407 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: even though there's not at all a real charity and 408 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: no kids are getting matched up with rich parents. So 409 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: he's a he's a genius. Now, Yeah, cool guy. At 410 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: age twenty three, Edward took on his biggest client yet, 411 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: the Russian Ballet. Now this was a particularly tough task, 412 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: since macho American men had little inclination to watch a 413 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: bunch of Europeans and fancy tights bound around on stage 414 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: like a bunch of fairies. Ballet was seen as effeminate. 415 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: In order to fight that expression of toxic masculinity, Burnet 416 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: has used another expression of toxic masculinity and published articles 417 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: in prominent newspapers with titles like our American men ashamed 418 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: to be graceful again. He's really smart. I like him. 419 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: That's that's good. I mean, it's just like you just 420 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: have to make that's such a weird angle to come 421 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: just like, oh, sorry, bro, are you like afraid to 422 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: like enjoy a gorgeous ballet? I'm sorry you can't enjoy 423 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: the beautiful shape, like the beautiful expression of a man's 424 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: glorious glute muscles bounding in perfect symmetry on the stage. 425 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: You don't like watching his quads bounce? I like, just 426 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: like the image of an angry bro outside of like 427 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: a ballet theater. Just they're just being like, dude, like what, oh, 428 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: I can't just go out and see fucking Romeo and 429 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: Juliette with my friends? What then are you talking about? 430 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: You're saying it's not manly to enjoy a manage tightly 431 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: wrapped package as it as it bounds up and down 432 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: on the stage, Like I can't watch that? Are you 433 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: are you? Are you scared of grace. I'm still not 434 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: there too. I'm just like, why want my boyfriend go 435 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: to the Family of the Opera with me? Why? Why? Well, 436 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: because watch musicals that slap. That's the that's the update. 437 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: Does Does Fantom of the Opera slap? Yes, it's well, 438 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: you know you know what else slaps, Jamie loftus, you 439 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: know what, you know what slaps even harder than Fantom 440 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: of Coming And I hate it. The products and services 441 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: that support this show, inder program, these slaps, these slap 442 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: like the Phantom of the Opera, but unlike the Phantom 443 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: of the Opera, you don't know where this story is 444 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: going from a lifetime growing up in American pop culture. 445 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: So this will another hater, not a not a hater, 446 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: but I'm saying, like the Phantom of the Opera, we 447 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,959 Speaker 1: all know how the Phantom of the Opera goes. No 448 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: one knows what these ads are going to be. They 449 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: could be for a belt company, they could be for 450 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: coke industries, they could be for the Church of Scientology, 451 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: they could be for Blackwater. Like, anything could happen when 452 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: ads come on. It could be anything. Yeah, So let's 453 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 1: spin the roulette wheel of capitalism and see whereupon it lands. 454 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: We're back. Oh my god, what a ride those ads were. 455 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: I you know what, I didn't expect it to be 456 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: a Raytheon ad um, But now that it's run, I've 457 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: been thinking I really need some new missile guidance systems 458 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: because I have I have a lot of Yemen to 459 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: shoot at. Suggestion is very strong. Yeah, you don't realize 460 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: how many ways there are to kill until you listen 461 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: to the advertisements. Exactly, I'm gonna bomb so many uh 462 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,719 Speaker 1: school buses in foreign countries. Thanks to these beautiful Raytheon 463 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: products and and their sponsorship money really keeps the show 464 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: will floats. So thank you to Raytheon. Yeah, it's really 465 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: cool to get to finally see pictures of your large 466 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: mansion that you live in. Yes, yes, built with Raytheon money. Yeah. 467 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: Oddly enough, the main demographic for Behind the Bastards is 468 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: the Saudi royal family, so they this is really a 469 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: good place for Raytheon to advertise. Yeah. Alright, let's get 470 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: back to Edward Burnet's who is related to this because 471 00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:02,719 Speaker 1: he invented advertising in context. Yeah, revolutionize bullshit. He revolutionized bullshit. 472 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: So Berne's had realized with his his campaign for the 473 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: Russian ballet. Uh, that he could sort of change American 474 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: opinions about things like European men wearing tights by pushing 475 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: think pieces into popular publications like Vanity Fair and creating 476 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: the illusion of a national discussion. As long as that's 477 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: done to this day, Yeah, yeah, like he was. He's 478 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: the first person to figure it out, and it's completely 479 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: destroyed our our civil society. And remember that article that 480 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: was like, why aren't millennials buying diamonds? Just like starting 481 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: a conversation that no one was in the middle of. Meanwhile, 482 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: the question with all of my fellow millennials is more 483 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: along the lines of like, why can't I afford to 484 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: buy my insulin? Why did Why did I go to 485 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: a dentist who accept group on? That's why are people 486 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: able to afford a dentist? How do I? How do 487 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: I in my vanity bones without getting a new credit card? Yeah? 488 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: Did you know that there are a group on? Dentist? Robert? 489 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: I am not surprised by that. It's a hard industry 490 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: for dentists. I went to one. She sneezed in my mouth, 491 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: but I think she did a good dental work. The 492 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: last time I went to a dentist. That that's horrifying. 493 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: It took me a second to catch up with that. 494 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 1: She sneezed into my mouth. She wasn't wearing a mask. 495 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: Is that? What is that? Was? She like those painless 496 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: dentists were like what she brags about it, I'm a 497 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: maskless dentist. Didn't need to get happen. Yeah, mask off. 498 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: She I'm thirty cheaper than the other dentists, but I 499 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: will get my fluids inside of you. Yeah. The crazy 500 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: thing is, I'm pretty sure that the gum procedure itself 501 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: went just fine. But she she was like talking about 502 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones and she sneezed in my mouth. That's awesome. 503 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: That's some solid dentistry. Yeah. I mean, hey, if I had, 504 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: you know, had I gotten health insurance, had I had 505 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: it been an option in my life, I wouldn't have 506 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: this gorgeous anecdote to share are with you on this 507 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: this podcast, So really, you know, what is dystop you? 508 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: I don't know. The last time I went to a 509 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: dentist was when I had health insurance, and it was 510 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: to get my wisdom teeth removed. And I understood then 511 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: that that was the last dentist trip where I was 512 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: likely to get hydro code down. So I just have 513 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: not been back because why would you? Why would you 514 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: go after that? There? I guess that's fair. I just 515 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: my mouth kept bleeding. My mouth kept bleeding. Mouths are 516 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: meant to bleed, Jamie, there is. I was just I 517 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: was starting to get nervous about how my mouth would 518 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: bleed in any situation. If I started to feel any feeling, 519 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: my mouth would respond by bleeding. Now, if your mouth 520 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: stops bleeding, that's when you have a health issue. You 521 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: want your mouth to bleed all the time. It's well, 522 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: that's fair, it's but if you see enough pictures of 523 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: yourself doing stand up with your mouth actively bleeding, people 524 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,239 Speaker 1: start to think it's a bit and not just how 525 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: your mouth is well play. It is a bit either way. 526 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: If your if your mouth is bleeding, it means you're 527 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: drinking plan of blood, which means you have high iron levels, 528 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: which is what we need if you can't afford to 529 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: go to the doctor. I love this spin. You're going 530 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: full Burnet's thank you. I'm I I really have learned 531 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: a lot from him. So as the nineteen teens rolled on, 532 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: Edward Burnet's was making very good money on the cutting 533 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: edge of the field that hadn't really existed before he 534 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: got into it, public relations. Tragically, his success did not 535 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: at all impress his father. Burne's later wrote, quote, my 536 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: father's attitude toward my activities remain less than lukewarm. He 537 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: was disappointed that his son had turned press agent. He 538 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: enjoyed good theater in concerts. To occupy an orchestra sea 539 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: a performance was one thing, But for his only son 540 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: to make a career of the theater, in daily contact 541 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: with actors and managers with something else. I opened the window. 542 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: Get this actor's stink out of here. Yeah, he thought 543 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: his dad thought actors were gross, and he thought it 544 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: was gross that his son had become basically a press 545 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: agent for the theater. I mean, wouldn't you feel the 546 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: same way. Yes, I hate the theater and all people 547 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: who were involved with it. Yeah. I think that's a 548 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: reasonable way to feel. Get get getting TV like every 549 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: self respecting actor board trotting. Yeah, where's your is he 550 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: and Sag? I'm not fucking interested? Yeah he's he is 551 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: older than Sag. I suspect. Now. When World War One 552 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: kicked off in August of nineteen fourteen. It was, you know, 553 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: probably the greatest calamity in human history. The whole nations 554 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: in the continent of Europe were utterly ruined by war 555 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: on a scale never before imagined. Luckily, for America and 556 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: for Edward Burnet's it also meant an opportunity to get 557 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: into some new business. For America. That new business was 558 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: mass arms sales. For Edward, that new business was convincing 559 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: Americans that getting involved in a European war was a 560 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: good idea. Now, this is gonna be hard to get 561 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: your mind around, Jamie, but there was a time when 562 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: Americans thought going to war in foreign countries was a 563 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: bad idea. Oh see, that's not something I feel like 564 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: we can relate with in our lifetimes. No, no, no, 565 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: it was not. Okay, Daddy little legs, how's it has 566 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: been a do it? How is Daddy longlegs going to 567 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: do this? Well? His first big idea was to get 568 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: out an article in the magazine Musical America urging musicians 569 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: to help America get on board with the war by 570 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: having singers performed songs about the U. S. Military whenever 571 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: they performed at clubs. So that was you know that 572 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: can't all be great home runs. That is, that is 573 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: one thing that seemed to us to work in this 574 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: country that I truly can't understand, like hearing even like 575 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: post nine eleven and like this this, you know, it 576 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: actually did work in nine eleven. I grew up in 577 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: a conservative household, and I heard that, fucking well, I'm 578 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: proud to be an American where at least done, No, 579 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: I'm free. I heard that fucking every week of my 580 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: life in the run up to like the Iraq War. 581 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: Yeah that was. That was like the theme song of 582 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: We're going to the track if we support this horrible war. Yeah, yeah, 583 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: that was. And my parents were very moved by it, 584 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: especially after and eleven thought it was the most profound 585 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: song they'd ever heard. It was. So yeah, I guess 586 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: maybe that wasn't a dumb idea. It probably worked really 587 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: fucking well back then, and it worked really fucking well 588 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: in two thousand three. Yeah. Yeah, he was a trend setter. 589 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: So eventually Bern's work earned an interview with the Foreign 590 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: Press Bureau, who were the United States is proto propaganda 591 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: agency for the US military at that point in history. Um, 592 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,719 Speaker 1: they were worried about hiring Burnet's because he came from 593 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: Austria and they thought that might make him not loyal 594 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: to the United States. But eventually they grew convinced that Berne's, 595 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: you know, was really a company man, and they gave 596 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: him a chance to serve the war effort directly. No. No, no, 597 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: he's a relentless capitalist. Yeah, he has he's he is 598 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: on board with capitalism. We're good, We're good. Yeah, I'm 599 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: gonna quote again from the father of Spen quote. Finally, 600 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: given his chance to serve, Eddie recruited Ford International Harvester 601 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: and scores of other American firms to distribute literature on 602 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: US wars to foreign contexts and post US propaganda in 603 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: the windows of six and fifty American offices overseas. He 604 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: distributed postcards to Italian soldiers at the front so they 605 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: could boost morale at home, and he planted propaganda behind 606 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: the German lines to so dissent. He organized rallies at 607 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: Carnegie Hall featuring freedom fighters from Poland, Czechoslovakia in other 608 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: states that were anxious to break free of the Austro 609 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: Hungarian Empire. In short, he helped win America over to 610 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: an unpopular war, using precisely the techniques he'd used to 611 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: promote Daddy Long Legs and the Russian ballet. Oh my god. Yeah, Okay, 612 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: so he's moved on from ballet to the First World War. Well, 613 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: he's gonna quite a jump there. I never overestimate the 614 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: confidence of a random guy. Yeah, well I successfully promoted 615 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: Daddy Long Legs better trying to like Mike fuck the 616 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: world up. Yeah, it's one of the I know, the 617 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: thought went through his head at some point, like if 618 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: I can put asses in seats on Broadway, I can 619 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: put dough boys in trenches in the Western Front. Wow. 620 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: I well, there's there's no bouncing back from this. And 621 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: it worked. It was it worked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was. 622 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: He was an integral part of winning the American people 623 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: over to World War One. Um. I mean there's really 624 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: appealing to the power of fomo. Is is powerful for anyone. 625 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: They're just like, are you serious? Like people are there 626 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: ship happening over there. It's one kind of dumb to 627 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: be a European in nineteen fourteen and think like, oh, 628 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: this war is gonna be awesome. We gotta get into it, 629 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: like everybody wants a little bit. It's gonna be over 630 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: real quick, Like I want to have a partner it. 631 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: I want to have a chance to be a hero. 632 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: That's one kind of dumb, and it's an understandable kind 633 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: of dumb if you know European history up to that point. 634 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: It's a whole other kind of dumb to watch three 635 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: years of unspeakable slaughter in the trenches of Western Europe 636 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: and be like, yeah, we we should really get in that. 637 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: Like this seems like it's gonna be a great tea. 638 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: Let's hop on this trade, guys. But it does. But 639 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 1: it does work. It does work. Uh, Imperial Germany is defeated, 640 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: thus ensuring peace in Europe forever more. Um, I haven't 641 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: read in the European history past nineteen eighteen, but I 642 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: think I think I think it went pretty well. It's 643 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: kind of a happily ever after kind of deal. Yeah, 644 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: seems like it seems like it. So there's an extent 645 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: to which, like obviously American involvement in the First World 646 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: War is one of those things that set off a 647 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: chain of events that you know, made the rise of 648 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: Nazi Germany inevitable. And you can't blame Edward Burnet's for that. Um, 649 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: he was, he was doing what he thought was best. Uh, 650 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: what you can blame him for is his work in 651 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: the tobacco industry, which ironically would go on to kill 652 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: more people than his work selling America on World Wars. 653 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: But first, it's so wild that, you know, like his 654 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,240 Speaker 1: dad could have just been like, I love you. Yeah. 655 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: His dad actually did say that a lot, because we 656 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: have some letters between them. It seemed like his dad 657 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: could only communicate emotionally with his son through letters that 658 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: they wrote each other. But his dad was also like 659 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: really insistent that his son get into agriculture, which I 660 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: guess maybe he was right about it because it seems 661 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: kind of that Eddy, that would be fun and I 662 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: wish I'm going, Yeah, I was like, I mean, I 663 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: guess the world might be better out of you than that. 664 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: I wish that fathers were still pushing their kids to 665 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: do the same ship as them. That that's what a 666 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: what a fun what a fun trend that was for 667 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: most of human history. I mean I say that, like 668 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: I make fun of that idea of like Dad's like 669 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: like pushing their kids to the same thing they did. 670 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: But I wound up completely accidentally in the same career 671 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: field my dad was in without ever meaning to because 672 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: he was a radio guy for thirty years. And now 673 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: look at look at fucking me, Look at you. You're 674 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: on your goddamn microphone and your ray theon mansion, and 675 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: I'm also reporting on the Boston Bruins for local paper. 676 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: You can't, you can't, you can't escape it yet. Genetics 677 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: is destiny, um, except for Edward Burns who, instead of 678 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: farming tobacco just sold it to millions of Americans. We're 679 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: going to talk about that in a little bit, Jamie, 680 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: but first I feel like we should have a little 681 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 1: detour and talk about Edward Burne's feminist icon. Wow. This 682 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: is yeah, this is this is my content. Okay, great, 683 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: you're ready. You're ready. The judge of that Berne's was 684 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: a long standing women's rights advocate and was well ahead 685 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: of his time on just about every gender issue. He 686 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, supported women's suffrage before women could actually vote. 687 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: He and his wife, Doris Fleischmann, got married in nineteen 688 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,839 Speaker 1: twenty two after a long lingering courtship. When Edward had 689 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: opened his first independent company, which he called a publicity 690 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: direction office, in nineteen nineteen, Doris was his first employee. 691 00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: They fell in love, but we're so focused on a 692 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: voiding what they saw as the mistakes of their parents 693 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: that they kept their relationship hidden for years. Eddie's sister 694 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 1: actually had her husband adopt the Burnet's name when they 695 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: married so the family line could go on, because she 696 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: was that convinced that her brother would never marry. He 697 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,399 Speaker 1: was like kind of like a hippie sort of dude, 698 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: where he's like, we're not gonna get married, We're gonna 699 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: do like, you know, a different sort of relationship that 700 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: that nobody else in America is on board like doing yet. 701 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: So he was like ahead ahead of his time on 702 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: that um. Now, on paper, the union between Doris Fleischmann 703 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: and Eddie Burnet's seemed like it was like the wokest 704 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: one in history up to that point. They got married 705 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 1: without a wedding ring. They did not inform their parents. 706 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: Uh and you know, back before the wedding, they both 707 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: joined something called the Lucy Stone League, which was an 708 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: advocacy group dedicated to fighting for women's right to maintain 709 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,240 Speaker 1: their maiden name and not change their maiden name after marriage. 710 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: That is cool and true to their word. After their marriage, 711 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: Doris kept her maiden name. When they signed into the 712 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: hotel where they would spend their wedding night, she registered 713 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: for the room instead of Eddie, and she registered under 714 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: the name Doris Fleishman. This was the first time any 715 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: woman had ever done this in American history, and like 716 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: to give you an idea of where gender relations were 717 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: at the time, multiple major national newspapers reported on the 718 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: story of a woman signing in for a hotel under 719 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 1: her name. Wow. There were headlines like this bride registers 720 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 1: under her maiden name and just independent with the exclamation point. Yeah. 721 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: It's like, so that's where we are at this time. 722 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: But you know, Eddie Burne's is and he and his 723 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: wife like our fucking trend setters here. Um oh wow, 724 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: I mean talk about multitudes on Mr. His friends must 725 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: have thought he was such a cock that's funny. Yeah, yeah, 726 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: that's something that's not nothing. That's not nothing. And he was, 727 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, in the nineteen twenties, was an advocate of 728 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: the idea that housewives deserved to be paid by their 729 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,439 Speaker 1: husbands because he believed they were doing yeah, yeah, real 730 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: work and that they ought to be compensated for it. Um, 731 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 1: And because he and his wife were business partners. He 732 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: split the revenue from his agency with his wife evenly, um, 733 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: so they were equal partners on paper at least. So 734 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: his wife, Yeah, is she hot? Sophie, there is she hot? Wait? 735 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: We gotta look him up. Yeah, we gotta look him up. 736 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: We gotta, we gotta reduce Joras Fleischmann, women's rights pioneer two. 737 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: Is she hot? I should have said earlier. I don't 738 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: think Edward Rene's is hot. His head looks like a cube. 739 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:44,479 Speaker 1: I would not call him hot. His his wife is beautiful. Okay, yeah, 740 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: you do what she says, cube head. So well, actually, 741 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: see this is where it gets kind of sucked up. 742 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: So Jamie, nice friends, It's uh, this is a complicated 743 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: story because everything I've just told you is true, but 744 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: it leaves out an important aspect of the story, which 745 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 1: is what Doris herself actually wanted. So I'm gonna quote 746 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,760 Speaker 1: again from the book The Father of Spin quote. Doris 747 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: also was a pioneer for women's rights, but winning the 748 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 1: right to use her maiden name wasn't one of her 749 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: proudest achievements. Eddie admitted it was he who had insisted 750 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: on their joining the Lucy Stone League, bringing a reluctant 751 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: Doris with me, and it was he who pushed her 752 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: to use her maiden name on their wedding night because 753 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: I had an interfere that marriage, though I wanted it 754 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: fiercely with Doris, would take away some of my liberties 755 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: as an individual if there were a missus added to 756 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 1: my name. So years later, Doris actually would adopt her 757 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: husband's last name, as she'd apparently wanted to do all along. 758 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 1: She never it was. It was played as this big 759 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: gesture of an independent woman making a strike for women's rights, 760 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: but she actually really wanted to take bernonas name and 761 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: he wouldn't let her. So yeah, it's it's it's it's 762 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:12,399 Speaker 1: fucking complicated, right, Like that's some extremely weird Yeah, that's 763 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: it just does sort of ring as like yeah, whatever. 764 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: His fears are compounded with the fact that this all 765 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: got them pressed every time they would do something that 766 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: was a hashtag feminist win. Yeah, that is so oh, 767 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: that's like so many levels of emotional fuccory where I 768 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: don't know, I'm like, I'm just picturing these gas lighting 769 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,319 Speaker 1: sessions of like are you telling me and do something bad? 770 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: It's like no, but like no one ever Doris. God, 771 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:54,320 Speaker 1: it's so complicated. The only wokeman is also a fucking dick. Yeah, 772 00:42:54,360 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: it's it is the twenties, So I imagine that I 773 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: do yeah for fifty eight years? Yeah, I mean she 774 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: she She expressed happiness in their relationship. Doris Fleischmann was 775 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: a legitimate U pioneer of women's rights. She worked in 776 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: journalism long before that was common, and she was a 777 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: huge part of her husband's groundbreaking pr work. But in 778 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: spite of his insistence is that there's was an equal partnership, 779 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,280 Speaker 1: Burnet's always focused on the Burnet's name in their work 780 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: and downplayed his wife's involvement in it during the decades 781 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 1: where that was a hindrance rather than an asset. Doris 782 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,919 Speaker 1: was expected to maintain their home as well, like any 783 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,760 Speaker 1: housewife of that era, but because Eddie was so woke 784 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: and uncomfortable with the idea of having his wife do 785 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,720 Speaker 1: housework for him, she spent most of her life rushing 786 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,800 Speaker 1: to and from their home ahead of him to ensure 787 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,919 Speaker 1: that the house was an order, and to also ensure 788 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: that Eddie didn't see her putting the house in order 789 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 1: and Burnet's, their daughter, later said he wanted her to 790 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 1: be a feminist outside the house, but inside he wanted 791 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,959 Speaker 1: her to be a Victorian wife. That's yeah, that's still 792 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 1: that's still happened. That's like, yeah, I would say a 793 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: solid of men who own uh, like the future is 794 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: female shirts are like still pieces of ship and like 795 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: expect too too much? Uh from well, good to know, 796 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: Good to know. Yeah, he's the original be where the 797 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: wokeman sort of stereotype. Yeah, Like the guy who brags 798 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 1: about being woke is usually quite dangerous. He's like, who's 799 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 1: that guy from Who's that guy from Orange as the 800 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,839 Speaker 1: New Black who like wouldn't shut up about how woke 801 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,280 Speaker 1: he was for three years and then everyone just stopped 802 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: casting him so he'd shut the funk up. He's like 803 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,719 Speaker 1: that guy someone I don't I don't know who that 804 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 1: guy is. His name was Matt And I'll tell you 805 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:50,919 Speaker 1: be shirtless. I mean, I'll say from my own part, 806 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: the only thing all brag about is accidentally drunkenly vomiting 807 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,800 Speaker 1: on people that that I'm I'm close to, because because 808 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: I I Jamie am a true hero. Are you are 809 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 1: the true wokeman? Thank you? Thank you? And the woman 810 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: the person who has a problem moderating his intake of 811 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,800 Speaker 1: intoxicants and has ruined many a shirt from his friends. 812 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 1: Matt mcgory, that was that was Mr Woke. I was thinking, 813 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,760 Speaker 1: is that the guy? Yeah, the shirtless wokeman. Yeah? Okay, 814 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: god so gross, well, shirt full wokeman Eddie Burne's old 815 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 1: cube head. When Doris died in nineteen eighty, a professor 816 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 1: named Susan Henry was inspired by the obituary Edward Burns 817 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: wrote about his wife and you know, inspired her to 818 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: write a book about Doris Fleishman and several other female pioneers. 819 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,680 Speaker 1: The book is titled Anonymous in their Own Names, which 820 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,800 Speaker 1: is a solid fucking title. Uh. Professor Susan Henry reached 821 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: out to Edward Burns because he was still alive about 822 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,360 Speaker 1: writing this book that would feature his wife heavily, and 823 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,719 Speaker 1: he was enthusiastic in his desire to help Susan and 824 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: to talk up the accomplishments of his deceased wife. As 825 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: Susan dug more and more. Though, and talked to the 826 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: Burnet's daughters, she came to very critical conclusions about Eddie 827 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna quote from her book now. After visiting 828 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: him in March I finished writing a paper about Fleishman 829 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 1: that was accepted for presentation at a national conference. I 830 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: sent him a copy nervously, though, since the paper's theme 831 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: was his dominance of her at home and in the 832 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,800 Speaker 1: office and her lack of professional recognition. Once again he 833 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 1: surprised me. I have no criticisms whatsoever, he wrote to 834 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 1: me after reading it, except possibly one slight point. I 835 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: had overplayed her invisibility, he thought, and not been sufficiently 836 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: mindful of how their business would have suffered. Quote if 837 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 1: we had publicized a woman giving advice to men. This 838 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,440 Speaker 1: was not a slight point at all, but he was 839 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: willing to treat it as if it were and to 840 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 1: invite me back. So again, that's Eddie's justification for why 841 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: he didn't give his wife the credit and she deserved 842 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 1: while they were actually doing the work, and waited until 843 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 1: decades later when women's rights was in vogue. That's certainly spin. Yeah, 844 00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: he's the data spin Big Papa spins Jesus Now Edward 845 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: continued to work with Susan on her book in spite 846 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,359 Speaker 1: of the fact that her work both revealed the great 847 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,879 Speaker 1: role Doris had played in his innovations, which meant less 848 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: credit for him. This might seem to be somewhat to 849 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 1: Eddie's credit as a human being and evidence that he 850 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,800 Speaker 1: was a man capable of seeing his own past flaws 851 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: and acknowledging them in the harsh light of the historical record. 852 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: But it's worth noting that Edward's own daughter Anne did 853 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: not take this charitable view of her father. Quote. When 854 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,799 Speaker 1: I asked Anne Burnet's why she thought her father was 855 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 1: so helpful, even though by telling fleishman story, I was 856 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,759 Speaker 1: undermining the soul credit he had received for their work, 857 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: she reminded me that one of his favorite phrases was 858 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 1: reflected glory. I was showing his good sense in choosing 859 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,920 Speaker 1: her mother as his partner, she explained, you're flattering him. 860 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,400 Speaker 1: I later realized that the timing of my research added 861 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: to the flattery. In contrast to the anti feminism of 862 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,239 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties that made it a problematic time for 863 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 1: Fleishman to disclose much about her career in a wife, 864 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: as many women so she barely mentioned it. The feminism 865 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: of the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties made this an 866 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,760 Speaker 1: excellent time for Bernet's to call attention to her career. 867 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: He was willing to take less credit for their public 868 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,879 Speaker 1: relations accomplishments if he could take full credit for having 869 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,080 Speaker 1: been smart enough to marry and form a professional relationship 870 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 1: with this remarkable woman. So that's how Eddie Berne's daughter 871 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: analyzes everything that went on, and I just find very interesting. 872 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,839 Speaker 1: I realize she's an author, isn't she his daughter? Because 873 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 1: I recognize her and I think I had to read 874 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: one of her books at some point. Well that, I mean, 875 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,759 Speaker 1: that sounds that sounds accurate in terms of just like 876 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,239 Speaker 1: I mean, those men are still out there, just like 877 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,399 Speaker 1: a fair you know, the fair weather supporter of like 878 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 1: when it's I mean, this guy just sounds like yeah, 879 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 1: when it's when he when the world will give you 880 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,360 Speaker 1: positive attention for being a feminist, he's a feminist, and 881 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:52,359 Speaker 1: then when feminism is out, then cool, Well I hate yeah, 882 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: and I hate him. He's kind of would describe him 883 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,719 Speaker 1: as like yeah, yeah, I mean he wasn't entirely a 884 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: fair other feminist. I got to give him that. Like, 885 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: there were things that he was very outspoken about before 886 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,400 Speaker 1: it was popular, like him insisting that housewives get paid 887 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,520 Speaker 1: was never a popular like that's still not a popular 888 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,880 Speaker 1: and was just I mean just the general like even 889 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 1: if it's we don't know how genuine it is. But 890 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 1: like the fact that he said, like, you know, women 891 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,400 Speaker 1: shouldn't be forced to work. Of course, it's like, that's 892 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,000 Speaker 1: that's good. I like it. But then the fact that 893 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,359 Speaker 1: he wasn't actually listening to his wife kind of really 894 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,000 Speaker 1: puts a puts a bad taste in your mouth. Yeah 895 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:39,720 Speaker 1: about old cute. Yeah, it's fucking complicated, um and weird 896 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:47,360 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it's a bad taste in my intentions, Robert. Why, 897 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,280 Speaker 1: that's one of those things like when we talk about 898 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,880 Speaker 1: like his his reputation or his his record with feminism, 899 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot to criticize, there's a lot to praise. 900 00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,040 Speaker 1: I wouldn't call him a bastard on that because I 901 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 1: am a big believer and you have to judge people 902 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,359 Speaker 1: by the standards of the time, and even with all 903 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,239 Speaker 1: of the warts on his story, he's still better than 904 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,319 Speaker 1: the average man for that time on that issue. Well, 905 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,960 Speaker 1: that's yeah, I agree with like, And there is something 906 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,440 Speaker 1: to be said for just being an influential person, Uh, 907 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:21,080 Speaker 1: saying something that's not like popular, what no matter if 908 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: it's not even if it's done for pr like it 909 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:27,040 Speaker 1: can still be helpful to the world. Uh well, I 910 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,000 Speaker 1: mean yeah, he just kind of sounds like a like 911 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: a kind of flip floppy but sort of progressive. I 912 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,359 Speaker 1: don't know, you know, at the end of the day, 913 00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,080 Speaker 1: sold a lot of cigarettes, and I guess I just 914 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,160 Speaker 1: don't like it. And we are going to talk about 915 00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 1: the cigarettes next because that's where we really get into 916 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:49,120 Speaker 1: Edward Burnet's definitely a bastard. But before we talk about cigarettes, 917 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: Jamie loftus, Yes, let's talk about the fine products and 918 00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: services that Raytheon provides. Products and services like the Hellfire 919 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,239 Speaker 1: missile Guidance System, which, Jamie, let me tell you, if 920 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,960 Speaker 1: there's a wedding party in Afghanistan that you want to 921 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 1: blow up with several dozen pounds of art X explosives, 922 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,399 Speaker 1: there is no missile guidance system better than the ones 923 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,040 Speaker 1: Raytheon makes. I love it. I'm looking at Raytheon merch 924 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:21,520 Speaker 1: on now and boy do they have some graphic design. Yeah. 925 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,320 Speaker 1: My favorite Raytheon shirt is I went to an afghan 926 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: wedding and all I got was peppered with shrapnel there. Like, 927 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't know why I decided on Raytheon ad plugs today. Yeah, 928 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,839 Speaker 1: I mean they really need I just like to say 929 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 1: it like how it sounds. Yeah, I'm I'm a raytheon 930 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:52,120 Speaker 1: stand um for sure. Yeah. Products, we're back. We're talking 931 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 1: Eddie B and burn Daddy long Legs, the original Daddy 932 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,399 Speaker 1: long Legs. He has his names to intro him as 933 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 1: like Pitball. Yeah yeah, and in fact he and pit 934 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: Bull are very closely related. That's not true, but let's 935 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,520 Speaker 1: let's let's see if we can just get that light 936 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 1: a take off. Edward Burns would approve of me? Would 937 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,000 Speaker 1: he could cooler? Would he be perceived as cooler or 938 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,960 Speaker 1: less cool? Does your profile raise if you're related to 939 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:31,640 Speaker 1: Mr three or five Mr Worldwide pit himself like Pitall? Yes, 940 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:37,080 Speaker 1: I like pit Bull and that's my feminism pit Bull. 941 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 1: Is there anything more feminist than liking pit Bull than 942 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,600 Speaker 1: Mr three or five Mr Worldwide? I don't know. I 943 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,160 Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, No, not at all, not at all. 944 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,920 Speaker 1: It's that is the most feminist one can be. Exactly, 945 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,360 Speaker 1: when we go to war with Iran, We're going to 946 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: air drop pit Bull into UH, into the country in 947 00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,800 Speaker 1: order to UH to lead a women's uprising against the regime. 948 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,479 Speaker 1: That's that's how that's gonna work. It's going to be. Yeah, 949 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,719 Speaker 1: the revolution will be scored to pit Bull, and the 950 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,759 Speaker 1: revolution will of course be sponsored and supported by the 951 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,440 Speaker 1: good people of Raytheon Pitbull x Raytheon is I mean 952 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:22,960 Speaker 1: after forever, it's a match made in heaven. We don't know, Yeah, Yonline, 953 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:29,680 Speaker 1: I believe it. Yeah, I believe because that's fucking Pitbull 954 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,040 Speaker 1: branded hell Fire drones. That's that's a great that's a 955 00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:37,040 Speaker 1: great branding opportunity right there. So we're going to talk 956 00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,960 Speaker 1: about Edward Burns and the mother fucking tobacco industry and 957 00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,320 Speaker 1: Jamie Spoilers. When I say motherfucking I mean because his 958 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,960 Speaker 1: work in tobacco fucked over a lot of mothers. I 959 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:53,799 Speaker 1: thought it was another fried thing. If you know an 960 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 1: older woman who died from tobacco, it's probably Edward Burness. 961 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:05,439 Speaker 1: False had a grandma who dropped from lung cancer. Only Yeah, 962 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't like my great aunts, so I 963 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:12,000 Speaker 1: guess shout out. I mean, then you really can thank 964 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,800 Speaker 1: Edward Burnet's and Edward Burnet's ensured that there would be 965 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,400 Speaker 1: more sweet and low packets by taking her out of 966 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,600 Speaker 1: the game early. So you're welcome Jamie, Yeah, thank you 967 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,520 Speaker 1: so much so. World War One was, of course a 968 00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,480 Speaker 1: huge boon for the concept of smoking cigarettes. Prior to 969 00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,320 Speaker 1: the war, real men tended to prefer cigars or pipes, or, 970 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,040 Speaker 1: if they were baseball players, chewing tobacco cigarettes excelled in 971 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 1: wartime due to how easily you could smoke them in 972 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,000 Speaker 1: a trench. They became a standard part of military rations, 973 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,640 Speaker 1: and hundreds of thousands of American men returned from Europe 974 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:48,320 Speaker 1: with a fun new addiction in Edward and Doriss PR 975 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,440 Speaker 1: firm was contracted by George Washington Hill, the head of 976 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:55,000 Speaker 1: the American tobacco company. Hill's goal was to get women 977 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:59,480 Speaker 1: to start smoking the company's biggest brand, Lucky strikes. Hey, 978 00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,279 Speaker 1: that works, can crack that market? That worked out? Yeah 979 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,680 Speaker 1: it did it did that? Were yes, spoilers. This plan 980 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:10,400 Speaker 1: works like fucking gangbusters. Now, at that point, only about 981 00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,040 Speaker 1: twelve percent of cigarettes were consumed by women, which representative 982 00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,680 Speaker 1: huge surge in lady smoking from like the way things 983 00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: had been in the eighteen nineties, but wasn't nearly enough 984 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: to make big tobacco happy. He'll hit upon a brilliant theory, 985 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,120 Speaker 1: since being skinny had just come into Vogue. If he 986 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,680 Speaker 1: could convince women that cigarettes would help them lose weight, 987 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:33,080 Speaker 1: he could get them super fucking addicted to tobacco. Hill 988 00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,600 Speaker 1: came up with the slogan on his own. Yeah. Yeah, 989 00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:40,040 Speaker 1: it really does. And Hill came up with the slogan 990 00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,880 Speaker 1: reach for a lucky instead of a suite, which is 991 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:49,200 Speaker 1: a solid slogan. Yeah, he's a feminist, he is not intersectional. 992 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,160 Speaker 1: Hill knew that he was going to need the talents 993 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,799 Speaker 1: of the world's greatest admin to make the slogan work. 994 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,880 Speaker 1: From the father of spend, yeah, I mean that's kind 995 00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,319 Speaker 1: of who John Draper is, kind of based on Edwards 996 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: without the whole square head thing. Yeah, except for much 997 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,560 Speaker 1: better looking, although they both do have giant heads. Does 998 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,640 Speaker 1: John Hamm have a big old head? Yeah, John, I've 999 00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,040 Speaker 1: seen John Hamm and he has a very large head. 1000 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,200 Speaker 1: Very good looking guy, but huge head. Well that's isn't that? 1001 00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,520 Speaker 1: Like there's something about humans that are like they find 1002 00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,080 Speaker 1: big heads cute, and that's why the powerpuff Girls look 1003 00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:28,160 Speaker 1: that way. I'm not I'm not crazy here, I there's 1004 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,239 Speaker 1: it's the same reason we find babies cute because their 1005 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,919 Speaker 1: heads are big for their bodies and puppies too. Yeah, 1006 00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:40,120 Speaker 1: all right, well, yeah, I like a big head. So yeah, 1007 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,480 Speaker 1: He'll had this idea for like an ad campaign, reach 1008 00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,239 Speaker 1: for Lucky instead of a sweet, and he contracted with 1009 00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,439 Speaker 1: Edward Burne's to make the idea work. So I'm gonna 1010 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,080 Speaker 1: quote again from the father of spin. Berne has launched 1011 00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 1: the campaign against sweets with his trident true tactic of 1012 00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,480 Speaker 1: enlisting experts, in this case convincing Nicholas Murray, a photographer friend, 1013 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,080 Speaker 1: to ask other photographers and auris to sing the praises 1014 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,399 Speaker 1: of the thin. I have come to the conclusion. Murray 1015 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,520 Speaker 1: wrote that the slender woman who combining suppleness with grace 1016 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,320 Speaker 1: and grace with slenderness, who instead of over eating sweets 1017 00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:12,239 Speaker 1: and desserts, lights a cigarette as the advertisements say, has 1018 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,360 Speaker 1: created a new standard of female loveliness. I'm interested in 1019 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,520 Speaker 1: knowing if my own judgment concurs with that of others, 1020 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:19,280 Speaker 1: and should be most happy to have your opinion on 1021 00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,800 Speaker 1: the subject. Magazines and newspapers were also furnished with the 1022 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,760 Speaker 1: latest findings on the get thin trend for fashion editors 1023 00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,440 Speaker 1: that meant photo after photo of slender Parisian models and 1024 00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,000 Speaker 1: how coultured dresses for news editors and meant testimonials like 1025 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,280 Speaker 1: the one from the former chief of the British Association 1026 00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,040 Speaker 1: of Medical Officers of Health warning that sweets cause tooth 1027 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,880 Speaker 1: decay and advising the correct way to finish a meal 1028 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,080 Speaker 1: is with fruit, coffee, and a cigarette. The fruit Dr 1029 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,640 Speaker 1: George F. Buchan continued, hardens the gums and cleans the teeth. 1030 00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,160 Speaker 1: The coffee stimulates the flow of saliva in the mouth 1031 00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,320 Speaker 1: and acts as a mouthwash, while finally the cigarette disinfects 1032 00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:59,479 Speaker 1: the mouth and soothes the nerves. Cigarettes are dental there. 1033 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,479 Speaker 1: I you learned a lot from the twenties by knowing 1034 00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,360 Speaker 1: people were told coffee is a mouthwash and cigarettes clean 1035 00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,520 Speaker 1: your teeth, and we're like, all right, there is a 1036 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,640 Speaker 1: part of me that's like I would like to live 1037 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,600 Speaker 1: in that world for like a day. It would be nice. 1038 00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,240 Speaker 1: It's like everyone was living in a Kesha song. Yeah, 1039 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:29,400 Speaker 1: it's so yeah, that's psychotic that I mean, it is crazy. 1040 00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,720 Speaker 1: How I mean making cigarettes look feminine is it's such 1041 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,760 Speaker 1: like an advertising hack job that was so effective. But 1042 00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,440 Speaker 1: it's like that was still My mom smoked cigarettes for 1043 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:45,040 Speaker 1: chicks basically, and my dad smoked boys cigarettes like my 1044 00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:49,360 Speaker 1: dad did like Winston's and my mom does Missy Menthal 1045 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,080 Speaker 1: one twenties because they're thin and sexy and there's a 1046 00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,120 Speaker 1: rainbow in the carton and that, like it's it works. 1047 00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,680 Speaker 1: I hate it. It works. It's super or works. It's 1048 00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,960 Speaker 1: the same reason why there's all these like like where 1049 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:08,160 Speaker 1: they have male patterned baby wipes. Now, yeah, like it's 1050 00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,000 Speaker 1: and it's god, I mean it's like becoming a little 1051 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:16,400 Speaker 1: bit like more controversial to still be like arbitrarily gendering 1052 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,800 Speaker 1: stuff like that. But it is crazy how like how 1053 00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,720 Speaker 1: recently it was so egregious of just like this one's 1054 00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,160 Speaker 1: for and this is how you know, if you ever 1055 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,960 Speaker 1: want a really fun trip down an advertising rabbit hole, 1056 00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,920 Speaker 1: look at all of the different handguns that are like 1057 00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,560 Speaker 1: marketed towards women, like car and stuff like their lady 1058 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:40,840 Speaker 1: gun ads are it's great guns for like anything for 1059 00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:45,680 Speaker 1: for the gals is just guns for gals. Guns for gals. 1060 00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,240 Speaker 1: We gotta protect ourselves, two ladies. But look at like 1061 00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:52,000 Speaker 1: this pink trigger like it's well it's it's it's lisp. 1062 00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,520 Speaker 1: I mean you do see some of that. Mostly it's like, gals, 1063 00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:58,000 Speaker 1: we know you all want to carry the biggest gun available, 1064 00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,280 Speaker 1: but you don't want to ruin the lining of your 1065 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,880 Speaker 1: yoga pants. So like, here's yoga pants that are built 1066 01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,000 Speaker 1: to carry a gun, or here's like a gun that's 1067 01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,120 Speaker 1: designed to like go with the contours of feminine like 1068 01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,880 Speaker 1: like fashion. It's really how could I pack a piece 1069 01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:20,040 Speaker 1: and still look hot and still looked demure? Yeah, there's great. 1070 01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,240 Speaker 1: There are these new things. I actually like these, but 1071 01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,480 Speaker 1: there they sell them at like wart Walmart and Targets 1072 01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:29,480 Speaker 1: and warget um. But they're these panic alarms to carry 1073 01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,360 Speaker 1: around in case someone tries to attack you in the night. 1074 01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,320 Speaker 1: But they just look look like heart key chains and 1075 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,480 Speaker 1: they're advertised with like, if you ever need to make 1076 01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,800 Speaker 1: a big scene, girls, this is the accessory to have. 1077 01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:45,400 Speaker 1: And it is basically a very small taser. Oh that's amazing, 1078 01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:51,240 Speaker 1: make a big scene. It's beautiful and it all comes 1079 01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,600 Speaker 1: descended from the mind of Eddie Burnet's so in his 1080 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,400 Speaker 1: quest to get more women smoking, he went directly to 1081 01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,320 Speaker 1: hotels and restaurants and encourage them to add sick grits 1082 01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,640 Speaker 1: to their dessert offerings. He oversaw print ads like this 1083 01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,480 Speaker 1: beautiful piece of propaganda. I'm going to have Sophie show you, 1084 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:11,200 Speaker 1: uh it says on the top, Actually, Jamie, why don't you, 1085 01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,560 Speaker 1: why don't you describe that ad for our listeners? Okay, 1086 01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,440 Speaker 1: so in a in and a nice little Sarah font 1087 01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,080 Speaker 1: at the top says to keep a slender figure, no 1088 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:24,120 Speaker 1: one can deny. And then it's a horny looking woman. 1089 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,800 Speaker 1: And then it's reach for lucky instead of a suite, 1090 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:32,160 Speaker 1: and then it says the thing that we all know 1091 01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,720 Speaker 1: from the Mad Men episode, which is it's toasted. It's 1092 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:40,880 Speaker 1: no throat irritation, no cough. Yeah, oh my god, there 1093 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:45,000 Speaker 1: I mean, and they were right, we're right. This is 1094 01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,880 Speaker 1: such a weird Yeah, this and and we're these the 1095 01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,880 Speaker 1: first advertisements of their kind. Yeah, this is really the 1096 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,040 Speaker 1: first guy to start pushing this in a big way. 1097 01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,720 Speaker 1: Like obviously they're in products advertised for women before, but 1098 01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,200 Speaker 1: not like this. No one had thought of taking something 1099 01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,040 Speaker 1: that was a mass product and then specifically gendering it 1100 01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:08,200 Speaker 1: in order to sell more of them to a specific gender. Um. Yeah, 1101 01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:13,000 Speaker 1: like Burnet's is the fucking king of that. He's he's 1102 01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:19,000 Speaker 1: the real trailblazer there. He's using his feminism for evil, Yes, exactly. 1103 01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,280 Speaker 1: The Bernet's office sent out a series of suggested menus 1104 01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:26,560 Speaker 1: to restaurants arranged to save you from the dangers of overreading. Inevitably, 1105 01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,640 Speaker 1: the after dinner menus advised reach for a cigarette instead 1106 01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,800 Speaker 1: of dessert. Burns pushed articles that advised wives to hire 1107 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,520 Speaker 1: cabinet makers to add in special cigarette holders next to 1108 01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,320 Speaker 1: the flower and sugar holders. He sat down with home 1109 01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,520 Speaker 1: ex textbook writers to stress the importance of cigarettes and homemaking. 1110 01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,520 Speaker 1: Just as the young and inexperienced housewife it's caution not 1111 01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,520 Speaker 1: to let her supplies of sugar or salt, or tea 1112 01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,200 Speaker 1: or coffee run low, so should she be advised that 1113 01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:53,880 Speaker 1: the same holds true of cigarettes. I desperately want a 1114 01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,400 Speaker 1: house with a cigarette holder built into the cabinets. I 1115 01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,560 Speaker 1: will start smoking just to be able to use that. 1116 01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:02,200 Speaker 1: That sounds fucking awesome there, I mean, the way it's 1117 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:05,120 Speaker 1: crazy to think of. It's like they're, yeah, like cigarette 1118 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,160 Speaker 1: used used to be like kind of a given and 1119 01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,760 Speaker 1: like built into it's still kind of like built into 1120 01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:15,080 Speaker 1: cars and just like became. If you want to know 1121 01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,240 Speaker 1: what it was like, if you want to know what 1122 01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,680 Speaker 1: it was like to grow up in the twenties in America, 1123 01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:24,760 Speaker 1: go take a vacation to Serbia. Because they all still 1124 01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,000 Speaker 1: like you'll you'll have waiters walk to your table with 1125 01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,200 Speaker 1: a plateful of food with a cigarette in their mouths 1126 01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,560 Speaker 1: like it's it's so fucking crazy. They still smoked that 1127 01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:38,080 Speaker 1: way over there and it's, uh, it's amazing, like it 1128 01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:43,600 Speaker 1: really yeah, it really takes you back. Um yeah, it's retro, Robert, 1129 01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,160 Speaker 1: it's retro and they have a nightmarish rates of cancer. 1130 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,560 Speaker 1: But I don't think anyone gives a ship. It's Serbia man, 1131 01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:56,640 Speaker 1: like they've been through worse. But that's the national slogan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1132 01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:00,520 Speaker 1: you noticed that the places where like, uh, ship has 1133 01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,240 Speaker 1: gotten real most recently are the places where no one 1134 01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,840 Speaker 1: cares that cigarettes are bad for you, Like everybody smokes 1135 01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:07,240 Speaker 1: in a rack and it's like, why am I going 1136 01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,919 Speaker 1: to give a shit about lung cancer? Have you seen 1137 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:14,440 Speaker 1: what's going on here? Yeah? Um, now, Jamie, have you 1138 01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:16,760 Speaker 1: ever heard the phrase a moment on the lips and 1139 01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:21,680 Speaker 1: in a lifetime on the hips? You know you've never 1140 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,360 Speaker 1: heard that? I guess. Okay, So for a couple of 1141 01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,520 Speaker 1: articles I wrote years ago, I spent several weeks in 1142 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:31,160 Speaker 1: pro anorexia chat rooms just like listening to the conversations 1143 01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,640 Speaker 1: pro anorexi if people would have with each other about 1144 01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:36,560 Speaker 1: how to be anorexic better, and you run into that 1145 01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,880 Speaker 1: quote all of the fucking time. It is very common 1146 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:45,760 Speaker 1: off offline, which is that's good. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, 1147 01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,880 Speaker 1: I did the same. Yeah. I'm glad that I did 1148 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,000 Speaker 1: the same with my eating disorder. Otherwise it would have 1149 01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,760 Speaker 1: been a real problem, um, or more of a real 1150 01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:00,760 Speaker 1: problem than it was. Uh. Yeah, but a phrase, a 1151 01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:02,760 Speaker 1: moment on the lips, a lifetime of the hips. That 1152 01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,920 Speaker 1: anthem of anorexia originates from a quote cooked up by 1153 01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,320 Speaker 1: Edward Burnet's. His version, of course, was a moment in 1154 01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,480 Speaker 1: the mouth and ten years on the hips, um, which 1155 01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:16,920 Speaker 1: I guess is less extreme than with the way the quote. Yeah, 1156 01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:18,640 Speaker 1: a moment in the mouth and ten years on the hips. 1157 01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,800 Speaker 1: It's a good line. It's a good line. Uh. He 1158 01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:24,280 Speaker 1: got that line published in pieces in the New Yorker 1159 01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:28,520 Speaker 1: Life and other magazines, right next to cigarette ads. Now 1160 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,720 Speaker 1: at this moment, in the late nineteen twenties, most of 1161 01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,560 Speaker 1: the resistance to Berne's tactics came from the fact that 1162 01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:36,920 Speaker 1: he was hurting the candy industry, not that he was, 1163 01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:40,680 Speaker 1: you know, encouraging horrible rates of cancer. Representatives of the 1164 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:44,040 Speaker 1: sugar industry in particular were livid, which prompted Burnet's to 1165 01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,520 Speaker 1: respond in a letter that quote, a battle carried on 1166 01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:48,960 Speaker 1: fairly in this manner can serve the public and presenting 1167 01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,320 Speaker 1: both sides of a discussable question, and in bringing the 1168 01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,919 Speaker 1: underlying democratic principle of free competition fairly to the front, 1169 01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,120 Speaker 1: which really that says a lot about capitalism right there. 1170 01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,360 Speaker 1: That he's like, no, we need a fair discussion. Should 1171 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,479 Speaker 1: you eat a shipload of sugar or should you smoke 1172 01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:06,080 Speaker 1: cigarettes every ten seconds? That's the question, not like are 1173 01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,160 Speaker 1: both of these things bad? Are you doing either? It's 1174 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,320 Speaker 1: just like, which is the more profitable right now? Yeah, 1175 01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,680 Speaker 1: which poison will sell better? Is the is the question 1176 01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:17,920 Speaker 1: we need to have a free and open discussion about. 1177 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:19,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it is crazy to me that he was 1178 01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,760 Speaker 1: able to convince people that cigarettes are more fun than 1179 01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:28,040 Speaker 1: eating garbage, because I just contently disagree. Yeah, it's incredible, 1180 01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:30,640 Speaker 1: Like that is an achievement right there. I like how 1181 01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:32,600 Speaker 1: cigarettes were like they're like, oh no, this is how 1182 01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,840 Speaker 1: you make friends, Like, oh okay, yeah, this is how 1183 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:40,080 Speaker 1: you get men to like you ladies smoke a lucky strike. 1184 01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,480 Speaker 1: But December of nine, the first year of Eddie's pro 1185 01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:47,960 Speaker 1: cigarette campaign, American Tobacco's revenue group by thirty two million dollars, 1186 01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,520 Speaker 1: which thirty two million dollars in nineteen eight money is 1187 01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,880 Speaker 1: equivalent to roughly every dollar in two thousand nineteen money. 1188 01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,120 Speaker 1: Most of that additional sales came, of course, from the 1189 01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,000 Speaker 1: increase in sales for Lucky Strikes, so this is almost 1190 01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:05,160 Speaker 1: all attributable to berne ad campaign. And of course Edward 1191 01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:08,040 Speaker 1: Burns had no issue in capitalizing off of the woman's 1192 01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,680 Speaker 1: liberation movement to sell cigarettes, since cigarettes smoking came into 1193 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,560 Speaker 1: vogue right around the same time women got the right 1194 01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:17,400 Speaker 1: to vote. Bernese tied the two together, running ads suggesting 1195 01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:21,080 Speaker 1: that emancipated women ought to smoke cigarettes. He took advantage 1196 01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,439 Speaker 1: of his famous uncle, hiring the psychoanalyst Dr. A. A. Brill, 1197 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:27,120 Speaker 1: who had studied under Sigmund Freud, and paying him to 1198 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:31,160 Speaker 1: consult on his ad campaign. Brill wrote quote, It's perfectly 1199 01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,920 Speaker 1: normal for women to want to smoke cigarettes. The emancipation 1200 01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,800 Speaker 1: of women has suppressed many of their feminine desires. More 1201 01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,320 Speaker 1: women now do the same work as men do. Many 1202 01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:41,960 Speaker 1: women bear no children. Those who do bear children have 1203 01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:45,280 Speaker 1: fewer children. Feminine traits are masked cigarettes, which are equated 1204 01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:50,280 Speaker 1: with men become torches of freedom. Oh the I it 1205 01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,280 Speaker 1: makes total sense that this works. It makes total sense 1206 01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:59,240 Speaker 1: that women can do anything that men do, include accidentally 1207 01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:05,439 Speaker 1: killing them else include include poisoning themselves with tobacco. Yeah, 1208 01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,360 Speaker 1: I get it. That's well, you know, you got me. 1209 01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:13,480 Speaker 1: That's why our great aunts are dead. That line from 1210 01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:17,200 Speaker 1: Dr Brill Torches of Freedom inspired Edward Burnet's to create 1211 01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:20,880 Speaker 1: what some people call the first modern pr campaign in history. 1212 01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:23,720 Speaker 1: That might be overselling a little bit, a little bit, 1213 01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,920 Speaker 1: but it was very influential. Berne's decided that American tobacco 1214 01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:29,479 Speaker 1: should pick out a handful of stylish young ladies with 1215 01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:33,800 Speaker 1: social cash at you might call influence. Influence. Yeah, yeah, 1216 01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,080 Speaker 1: he's that fucking guy. So he hires these ladies to 1217 01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,320 Speaker 1: show up at the nineteen twenty nine Easter Sunday Parade 1218 01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:43,520 Speaker 1: in New York and walk around smoking their cigarettes flagrantly 1219 01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:47,120 Speaker 1: in public as a protest against women's inequality. He's like, 1220 01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:53,519 Speaker 1: we're smoking cigarettes. Yeah, we're smoking cigarettes out on the street. 1221 01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:56,600 Speaker 1: So his office put out a press release which they 1222 01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,400 Speaker 1: disguised as a message from one of the lady activists 1223 01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,880 Speaker 1: organizing the event, but was of course actually written by 1224 01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:08,320 Speaker 1: Edward Burnet's and his his colleagues. From the interest in 1225 01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,760 Speaker 1: the interests of equality of the sexes and to fight 1226 01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,519 Speaker 1: another sex taboo, I and other young women will light 1227 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:17,000 Speaker 1: another torture freedom by smoking cigarettes while strolling on Fifth 1228 01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:20,120 Speaker 1: Avenue Easter Sunday. We're doing this to combat the silly 1229 01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,080 Speaker 1: prejudice that the cigarette is suitable for the home, the restaurant, 1230 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,280 Speaker 1: the taxicab, the theater, lovvy, but never, no, never, for 1231 01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,559 Speaker 1: the sidewalk. Women smokers and their escorts will stroll from 1232 01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,879 Speaker 1: stret Street on Fifth Avenue between eleven thirty and one o'clock. 1233 01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:44,240 Speaker 1: So motherfucker is dueling for like pro choice justice psycho. Okay, yeah, 1234 01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:48,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm with you. I understand why this Yeah 1235 01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:52,120 Speaker 1: yeah Now. The event received massive newspaper coverage and was 1236 01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:54,200 Speaker 1: one of the biggest stories in the country for days, 1237 01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:56,639 Speaker 1: even though only ten women actually showed up to march. 1238 01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,360 Speaker 1: Here's an example of how a local New York paper 1239 01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,240 Speaker 1: covered the it quote, I'm gonna try to do my 1240 01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:07,000 Speaker 1: best New York old timey journalist accent here, so just 1241 01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,360 Speaker 1: as Miss Frederica Freyling, who housing conspicuous and a tailor 1242 01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:12,519 Speaker 1: outfit of Dot Gray, pushed her way through the jam. 1243 01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:14,800 Speaker 1: In front of St. Patrick Smith. Miss Bertha Hunt and 1244 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,360 Speaker 1: six colleagues struck another blow on behalf of the liberty 1245 01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:20,280 Speaker 1: of women. Down Fifth Avenue, they strolled puffing at cigarettes. 1246 01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:23,640 Speaker 1: Miss Hunt issued the following community from the smoke clouded battlefield. 1247 01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:25,680 Speaker 1: I hope that we have started something and that these 1248 01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,799 Speaker 1: torches of freedom, with no particular brand Favid will smash 1249 01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,360 Speaker 1: the discriminatory taboo on cigarettes for women, and that our 1250 01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:36,360 Speaker 1: sex will go on breaking down all discriminations. Wow good, Yes, 1251 01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:39,640 Speaker 1: it was beautiful. I'm also imagining all the women that 1252 01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,519 Speaker 1: are advertising this being forced to act like sexy babies 1253 01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:45,280 Speaker 1: in the way that women in an advertising were at 1254 01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:46,960 Speaker 1: this time and still are, but in a different way 1255 01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,640 Speaker 1: where they're just like, who me smoke a cigarette? Like 1256 01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,720 Speaker 1: they're like the sexy, the freaky sexy baby trope that 1257 01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,720 Speaker 1: I love and wish I could do myself. I think 1258 01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:02,040 Speaker 1: this was more like the boundary breaking, provocative flapper girl 1259 01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:07,720 Speaker 1: sort of thing. Yeah, abies, well you can have sex 1260 01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:11,599 Speaker 1: with me. Thet I get the I get the idea 1261 01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:16,400 Speaker 1: that they were more uh, acting like um, you know, 1262 01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:19,560 Speaker 1: like the stereotype of like the feminist college student in 1263 01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:23,439 Speaker 1: that earliest episode of The Simpsons where where Homer grabs 1264 01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,519 Speaker 1: the candy off that lady. I think they're acting more 1265 01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:30,080 Speaker 1: like that. Um. But that's just the impression I get from, 1266 01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:32,760 Speaker 1: like the quotes in the newspapers and stuff. I don't 1267 01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:36,120 Speaker 1: know what voice they said them in. They were all dressed. 1268 01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:40,519 Speaker 1: Yeah they're the flapper, I mean, yeah, the flapper and 1269 01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:46,560 Speaker 1: the cigarette are very intwined. So Eddie's secretary, Bertha was 1270 01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:48,599 Speaker 1: one of the marchers and the Tortures of Freedom rally. 1271 01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,040 Speaker 1: She gave quotes to numerous newspapers and told the New 1272 01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:53,400 Speaker 1: York Evening World that she first got the idea for 1273 01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,360 Speaker 1: this campaign when a man with her in the street 1274 01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,040 Speaker 1: asked her to extinguish your cigarette, as it embarrassed him. 1275 01:11:58,280 --> 01:11:59,840 Speaker 1: I talked it over with my friends and we just 1276 01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,320 Speaker 1: it it was high time something was done about the situation. 1277 01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,679 Speaker 1: Bertha denied being associated with any ad firm or agency 1278 01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:09,519 Speaker 1: and interviews, which was of course patently false because she 1279 01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:13,280 Speaker 1: worked her directly for Edward Burnet's The Torches of Freedom 1280 01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:16,679 Speaker 1: campaign was an influential moment in pr history. Berne's would, 1281 01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,519 Speaker 1: in true fashion, go on to massively oversell the impact 1282 01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:23,200 Speaker 1: it had on national smoking habits. Later academic work suggests 1283 01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,639 Speaker 1: that it alone was not responsible for making women feel 1284 01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:29,679 Speaker 1: okay with smoking cigarettes, But it's pretty much beyond debate 1285 01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,679 Speaker 1: to say that Berne's overall impact on the tobacco industry 1286 01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:36,080 Speaker 1: was enormous and groundbreaking. Before Edward Burnet's, woman who smoked 1287 01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:39,559 Speaker 1: were seen as horrors, trollops, and criminals. After Edward, fucking 1288 01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,439 Speaker 1: everybody smoked. Observing the change he had wrought. Later in life, 1289 01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,439 Speaker 1: Edward wrote, age old customs I learned could be broken 1290 01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:49,160 Speaker 1: down by a dramatic appeal disseminated by a network of 1291 01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:53,040 Speaker 1: the media, which is true. Uh, it's hard to quantify 1292 01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:56,839 Speaker 1: the exact cost in public health of Berne's tobacco marketing innovation. 1293 01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:00,120 Speaker 1: I found a article in the British Medical Journal that 1294 01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:02,920 Speaker 1: credited Burnet's with a formative role in marketing tobacco with 1295 01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:06,519 Speaker 1: two women and noted quote. The World Health Organization estimates 1296 01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,759 Speaker 1: that the number of women smoking will trip almost triple 1297 01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,960 Speaker 1: over the next generation to more than five million. World 1298 01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,680 Speaker 1: Health Organization. Of these, more than two million will die 1299 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:20,920 Speaker 1: prematurely from smoking related diseases, so sizeable body count that 1300 01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:22,880 Speaker 1: he's a part of here. So how are you feeling 1301 01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:27,160 Speaker 1: about the feminist icon label at this point? Definitely a 1302 01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,960 Speaker 1: feminist icon, but I think we can agree that icon 1303 01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:34,400 Speaker 1: is not an inherently positive term. Definitely had an impact 1304 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:38,280 Speaker 1: on the lives of women, that's my spin. Very impactful 1305 01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:42,840 Speaker 1: in women's history. I gotta say, to be fair, contributing 1306 01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,479 Speaker 1: to two hundred million smoking deaths via marketing would not 1307 01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:49,280 Speaker 1: necessarily make Bernet's a bastard, because you have to consider 1308 01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:52,200 Speaker 1: someone's actions based on what they and the medical community 1309 01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:54,559 Speaker 1: knew about cigarettes at the time. Like if I sell 1310 01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,919 Speaker 1: my listeners belts and then twenty years later scientists realized 1311 01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:01,200 Speaker 1: that belts cause aggressive waste cancer, I can't be blamed 1312 01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:05,840 Speaker 1: for that. But if Sophie had handed me right before 1313 01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,560 Speaker 1: reading that ad pieces of a study that suggested that 1314 01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,400 Speaker 1: belts might cause aggressive waste cancer, and then I covered 1315 01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:16,960 Speaker 1: that study up, then I would be a bastard. So 1316 01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:20,679 Speaker 1: this leads me to the question, what precisely did Eddie 1317 01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,600 Speaker 1: Burns know about the health consequences of smoking in the 1318 01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:27,840 Speaker 1: twenties and thirties. Well, for one thing, it's worth knoking, 1319 01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,040 Speaker 1: noting that, unlike Don Draper, Edward Burns did not smoke 1320 01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:36,880 Speaker 1: tobacco himself. He hated the taste and ironically preferred chocolates. Now, 1321 01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:41,240 Speaker 1: first off, this guy's yet not comfortable smoking himself. For 1322 01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:44,800 Speaker 1: another thing, Edward Burns had to bribe medical experts to 1323 01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:47,560 Speaker 1: brag about the supposed health benefits of smoking. It was 1324 01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:49,960 Speaker 1: obvious even to people in the twenties that cigarettes were 1325 01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,760 Speaker 1: bad for your throat. People got smokers coughs then, as 1326 01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:56,080 Speaker 1: they do now. To combat this obvious fact of reality, 1327 01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,760 Speaker 1: Burne's created the Tobacco Society for Voice Culture, whose goal 1328 01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:02,840 Speaker 1: was to improve the cords of the throat through cigarette smoking, 1329 01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:04,680 Speaker 1: that the public will be able to express itself in 1330 01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:08,960 Speaker 1: songs of praise or more easily to swallow anything. Society's 1331 01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:11,439 Speaker 1: ultimate goal was to provide what they called a smoking 1332 01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,799 Speaker 1: teacher for every singer. Now, you could argue that Burns 1333 01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:18,080 Speaker 1: didn't have much data on the health effect of cigarettes, 1334 01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:20,240 Speaker 1: but again, it was obvious to people that you know, 1335 01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,880 Speaker 1: cigarettes had harmful effects on your throat, and Burnet spent 1336 01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:26,360 Speaker 1: a lot of his career finding ways to get people 1337 01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,040 Speaker 1: to deny this evidence of their senses. One way he 1338 01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:31,200 Speaker 1: did this was by finding ways he could market specific 1339 01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:33,479 Speaker 1: products in a way that seemed to encourage public health. 1340 01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,479 Speaker 1: When he was hired by Cremo Cigars to improve their image, 1341 01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:39,799 Speaker 1: he suggested they launch an anti spitting campaign and basically 1342 01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:43,360 Speaker 1: focus on improving hygiene through stopping people from spitting to 1343 01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,160 Speaker 1: kind of cover up the fact that cigarettes are obviously 1344 01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,840 Speaker 1: bad for your health. Uh. By the early nineteen thirties, 1345 01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,799 Speaker 1: a scientific study revealed that a rabbit exposed to tobacco 1346 01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,080 Speaker 1: for three years had developed a carcinoma. The studies stated 1347 01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,559 Speaker 1: for the first time that tobacco had cancer producing properties. Now, 1348 01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,240 Speaker 1: this is an in nineteen thirties, about sixty years before 1349 01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:05,519 Speaker 1: this information is common knowledge and the few people how 1350 01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:07,600 Speaker 1: long has he been pushing cigarettes or is this pre 1351 01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:12,000 Speaker 1: him pushing cigarettes? Oh, this is while he's pushing cigarettes 1352 01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,160 Speaker 1: in the middle of it. He starts pushing cigarettes in 1353 01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:16,439 Speaker 1: the late twenties. But this isn't like he becomes aware 1354 01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:18,280 Speaker 1: of this data in the middle of his time in 1355 01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:21,320 Speaker 1: the tobacco industry. And in May of nineteen thirty three, 1356 01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:23,720 Speaker 1: he attached an abstract of the study to a letter 1357 01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:26,679 Speaker 1: he's sent to one of American Tobacco's executives. He wrote, 1358 01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:29,120 Speaker 1: as you will see, certain of the material in these 1359 01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:32,320 Speaker 1: articles is unfavorable to tobacco. However, I do not feel 1360 01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:34,439 Speaker 1: that there is anything immediate to be done. I do 1361 01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:36,679 Speaker 1: feel that serious attention should be given to the problem 1362 01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:39,120 Speaker 1: of having ready a strong offensive in case the press 1363 01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,599 Speaker 1: should give prominence to the recurring articles which I note 1364 01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:44,680 Speaker 1: from time to time on the relationship of smoking in carcinoma. 1365 01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:47,320 Speaker 1: I believe that the American Tobacco Company and the tobacco 1366 01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:50,599 Speaker 1: interests generally should be fully prepared with authentic information if, 1367 01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:54,760 Speaker 1: as when the need for such information occurs. So Edward 1368 01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:59,320 Speaker 1: Burnet's knows that cigarettes are associated with cancer, and his 1369 01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:01,479 Speaker 1: first step when he becomes aware of that is to 1370 01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:04,080 Speaker 1: send warning to the company hiring him that they should 1371 01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,640 Speaker 1: have a counter offensive ready in case newspapers pick up 1372 01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:11,559 Speaker 1: the story. Okay, so he's fully yeah, he's he's fully 1373 01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:15,360 Speaker 1: a bastard. And further evidence of that is that he 1374 01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,160 Speaker 1: was deeply concerned about the health impact smoking would have 1375 01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:21,240 Speaker 1: on his wife, Doris. She was a pack a day smoker, 1376 01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:24,439 Speaker 1: and Eddie needled her about her habit until she quit. 1377 01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:27,920 Speaker 1: Their oldest daughter, Doris later recalled to author Larry Tye, 1378 01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,160 Speaker 1: he used to hide my mother's cigarettes and make us 1379 01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:32,519 Speaker 1: hide the cigarettes. He didn't think they were good for mother. 1380 01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,160 Speaker 1: His daughter Anne added, he'd pulled them all out and 1381 01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:37,240 Speaker 1: just snap them like bones, just snap them in half 1382 01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,679 Speaker 1: and throw them in the toilet. He hated her smoking. 1383 01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:45,200 Speaker 1: So Edward Burne's while he is getting America hooked on cigarettes, 1384 01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,479 Speaker 1: is committed to stopping his wife from smoking because he 1385 01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:51,879 Speaker 1: knows they're going to kill her and he loves his wife. Okay, 1386 01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:54,519 Speaker 1: so yeah, this, I mean, this is like basic Game 1387 01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:57,160 Speaker 1: of Thrones logic of just like if the person is 1388 01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:00,920 Speaker 1: not willing to drink their own wine, do not purchase 1389 01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:05,760 Speaker 1: that wine, you goofs it's poison. M h, All right, 1390 01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:09,000 Speaker 1: well he's bad. Just started watching Game of Thrones, didn't you, Jamie. 1391 01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:13,599 Speaker 1: I started watching the Throne game? You did? You did 1392 01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:18,000 Speaker 1: watch the Throne Games? And now I'm smart. It's true. Yep, yep, yep, yep. 1393 01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,920 Speaker 1: It's a good show. It's fine. I like, uh, I 1394 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:25,160 Speaker 1: like the guy who says the things. Yeah anyway, so yeah, 1395 01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:28,120 Speaker 1: that's that's part one of our story. Oh yeah, the 1396 01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:30,600 Speaker 1: guy with the hair is hot as hell. Ye, I 1397 01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:36,040 Speaker 1: mean Jamie Lanister. Oh boy, let's let's just say I 1398 01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:40,160 Speaker 1: would like that torture freedom. That doesn't really actually tie 1399 01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:43,720 Speaker 1: into the context of how that was used. But no, 1400 01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:48,120 Speaker 1: you'd you'd set him one fire. It's set him on fire. 1401 01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:54,040 Speaker 1: That's what I do. That's how I flirt fire. Yeah yeah, yeah, 1402 01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:57,479 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. So uh that's part one. I think we 1403 01:18:57,479 --> 01:18:59,720 Speaker 1: should all be clear on Eddie Burnet's is a bastard. Now, 1404 01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:02,160 Speaker 1: he had America hooked on cigarettes after he knew that 1405 01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:05,360 Speaker 1: they were killing people. So there we go. How do 1406 01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,920 Speaker 1: you feel after this, after this episode about our unheralded 1407 01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:13,120 Speaker 1: founding father, Edward Burns, he seems more complicated than your 1408 01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:16,800 Speaker 1: average bastard. He is. He is. I hate when the 1409 01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:18,880 Speaker 1: bastard to do something good every once in a while. 1410 01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:24,040 Speaker 1: It makes my life harder. Yeah, rationalize, he's really complicated. 1411 01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:29,400 Speaker 1: He's not your hitler or your saddam um. Yeah, because 1412 01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:31,960 Speaker 1: he does do some good stuff he has He clearly 1413 01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:36,680 Speaker 1: has some good impulses behind him too. But also he 1414 01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:38,960 Speaker 1: also gets people hooked on cigarettes when you know it's 1415 01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:42,400 Speaker 1: going to call give him cancer classically cartoon villain. Yeah, 1416 01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:46,120 Speaker 1: this is He's a challenging one. I'm I'm stressed out 1417 01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:48,200 Speaker 1: by this. Well, you're going to be even more stressed 1418 01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:50,040 Speaker 1: out in part two because in part two we're going 1419 01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:53,880 Speaker 1: to talk about how Edward Burnet's popularized bacon inspired the 1420 01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,800 Speaker 1: Nazis and helped launch a brutal forty years civil war 1421 01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:02,960 Speaker 1: in Guatemala. So okay, great, quite a career this fellow had. 1422 01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:08,240 Speaker 1: Why did he live so long? Why he lived for 1423 01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:14,800 Speaker 1: fucking ever? Yeah? He really would not die. It's like 1424 01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:17,880 Speaker 1: your wife dies in nineteen eighty take the hint, Eddie, 1425 01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:23,880 Speaker 1: but no hints or not something Edward Burnet's takes. I 1426 01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:28,479 Speaker 1: wish he had smoked. Yeah, so do I. Well, Jamie, 1427 01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:30,960 Speaker 1: do you have any plug able to plug? Ah? Yeah, 1428 01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:34,240 Speaker 1: let me plug e uh, let's see. You can listen 1429 01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:38,200 Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast, my podcast with Caitlin Dronte every Thursday. 1430 01:20:39,400 --> 01:20:43,240 Speaker 1: You can. You can follow me on Twitter at Jamie 1431 01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,240 Speaker 1: Loft's Help, or if you live in the UK, I'll 1432 01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:51,479 Speaker 1: be at Edinburgh Fringe Festival all August and you can 1433 01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:53,320 Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at I right. Okay. You can 1434 01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,040 Speaker 1: find this podcast on the internet find the best roots 1435 01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:58,080 Speaker 1: dot com. Well, we'll have all of these sources for 1436 01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:00,880 Speaker 1: this episode, including the what of the book The Father 1437 01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:03,160 Speaker 1: of Spin, which is a really good and balanced look 1438 01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:05,639 Speaker 1: at Rene's although he comes to a bit more positive 1439 01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:07,640 Speaker 1: of a conclusion on the guy than than we are 1440 01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:11,880 Speaker 1: in this episode. Um and you can find us on 1441 01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,360 Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram at at Bastards Pod. You can buy 1442 01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:18,920 Speaker 1: t shirts at the public behind the Bastards. You can 1443 01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:23,320 Speaker 1: also buy our branded Raytheon gear, including guidance systems for 1444 01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:25,479 Speaker 1: your own missiles. If you want to build the missile yourself, 1445 01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:29,200 Speaker 1: but have you know Raitheon equipment, launch it into say 1446 01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:33,519 Speaker 1: an apartment building. Um, we all do, We all do. 1447 01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,480 Speaker 1: That's why Raytheon is such a good sponsor of this podcast. 1448 01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:39,640 Speaker 1: So everybody have a good day, go out into the 1449 01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:44,720 Speaker 1: world and remember the Raytheon company motto of fuck it, 1450 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:45,960 Speaker 1: we make money either way.