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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number two d and

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Speaker 1: seventeen and te In the show, I'm joined by Charles Post,

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Speaker 1: Tyler Sharp, and Brad Nethery to discuss their new publication,

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Speaker 1: Modern Huntsman, and the question of how we represent and

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Speaker 1: communicate our hunting lifestyle. All Right, welcome to the Wired

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Speaker 1: to Hunt podcast. And in the show, we've got an

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Speaker 1: interesting and particularly unique episode. I think it's it's a

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Speaker 1: real thinker. I'd say we're joined in this one, as

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Speaker 1: I mentioned a second ago, by three guys who are

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Speaker 1: involved in the publishing of a new premium print magazine

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Speaker 1: called Modern Huntsmen. And this publication is taking a really

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Speaker 1: unique angle on hunting, with a focus on framing most

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Speaker 1: of their content in a way that it's more catered

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Speaker 1: towards non hunters or brand new hunters, or maybe folks

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Speaker 1: that have been intrigued by hunting by way of the

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Speaker 1: local food movement, you know, that type of thing. And

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Speaker 1: what's interesting is, at least from this team's perspective, Much

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Speaker 1: of the traditional hunting media available in the past hasn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily spoken very well to these aforementioned groups. And let's

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Speaker 1: be honest. I think that if you took your non

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Speaker 1: hunting urban friend from work and stuck them in front

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Speaker 1: of the TV to watch some big buck TV show

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Speaker 1: or gave them a copy of a popular deer hunting magazine,

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Speaker 1: do you think that they'd resonate with that material? You know,

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Speaker 1: do you really think they've been trigued to get involved

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Speaker 1: after seeing dozens of pictures of big dead deer and

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Speaker 1: articles about kinetic energy and food plots, or what about

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Speaker 1: after watching a guy fist pumping and hooting and hollering

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Speaker 1: in a tree after shooting a deer. I think that

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Speaker 1: while many of us within the hunting community might enjoy

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, I think it is easy to

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Speaker 1: see how this might not appeal as much to those

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Speaker 1: on the outside looking in. But that's left this big

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Speaker 1: gap between much of the content being produced and then

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Speaker 1: the needs of a growing audience of people that are

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Speaker 1: interested in hunting. Maybe, but they're not knowing what to

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Speaker 1: do with that intrigue. So that's where these guys Brad

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Speaker 1: Tyler and Charles come in and their new project, Modern Huntsmen.

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Speaker 1: So today in the show, we chat with these guys

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Speaker 1: about their inspiration for this new project and then the

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Speaker 1: different issues that they're trying to address with this work,

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Speaker 1: stuff like how hunters communicate about hunting, and the importance

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Speaker 1: of improving the non hunting world's perception of hunters, and

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Speaker 1: a role as hunters and conservationists moving forward into the future,

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Speaker 1: and and just a whole lot more than that. And

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Speaker 1: within this group, it's it's interesting because we have a

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Speaker 1: relatively sly converted non hunter to hunter. We have a

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Speaker 1: professional photographer and hunter and videographer. We have a former

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Speaker 1: vegetarian and ecologist and filmmaker. So needless to say, it's

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Speaker 1: a conversation packed with with just really unique ideas and

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Speaker 1: opinions and perspectives which are sometimes right in line with

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Speaker 1: the things we typically talk about in the hunting world

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Speaker 1: and sometimes quite different. So, without further ado, let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick break to thank our partners at White Tailed

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Speaker 1: Properties and then we'll get right to the episode. So,

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Speaker 1: as we've mentioned on many past episodes, White Tail Properties

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Speaker 1: and their land specialists, in addition to being a go

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Speaker 1: to option for those interested in buying or selling recreational properties.

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Speaker 1: They're also a great resource when it comes to learning

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Speaker 1: more about hunting or managing land for wildlife, and their

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Speaker 1: YouTube series called land Beat is a perfect example of this,

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Speaker 1: and just this week they launched a new video about

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Speaker 1: the value of working with a forester when developing a

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Speaker 1: landman has been planned and we've discussed this on past episodes.

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Speaker 1: You know the fact that how properly managing timber on

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Speaker 1: a piece of ground can really benefit the wildlife on

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Speaker 1: your property. But but knowing how to do this in

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Speaker 1: the right way and how you can possibly financially benefit

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Speaker 1: from two you know, that's important to know before getting started,

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Speaker 1: and that's what this video shares. It talks about exactly

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Speaker 1: how a forrester can help you do that. So, if

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Speaker 1: you're in a situation like this where land and timber

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Speaker 1: management is on your horizon, but you're not exactly sure

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Speaker 1: where to start or what to do next, I definitely

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Speaker 1: recommend heading over to the White Tailed Property's YouTube channel

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Speaker 1: and checking out this recent video, which is titled quite poetically,

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Speaker 1: I might add make money on your timber consulting a forrester.

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Speaker 1: What you need to know? I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: a haiku or something, but it is a helpful short video.

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Speaker 1: So check it out. And now on to the show.

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Speaker 1: All right with me? Now we've got a full house.

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Speaker 1: I've got Brad Tyler and Charles all with me. And

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Speaker 1: rather than beating around the bush bread, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: start with you, being the founder of modern huntsman, can

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Speaker 1: you just set this stage for us? What is this?

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Speaker 1: Why did you create this? How did the idea come abow?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so, the whole concept started. Um I My background

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Speaker 1: is as a non hunter. Um and and not necessarily

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Speaker 1: somebody who had never hunt hunted, but somebody who really

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Speaker 1: didn't associate with hunters in general. There was this disconnect

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Speaker 1: with how I felt about hunting and the way that

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Speaker 1: I engaged in the land. Um, I was a meat

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Speaker 1: eater and um My, you know, I grew up in Texas,

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Speaker 1: and so hunting really isn't a negative topic here. It's

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Speaker 1: just kind of you know, if you do it, great,

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Speaker 1: if you don't great. Um And so, given the luxury

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Speaker 1: of choice between the grocery store field, I kind of

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Speaker 1: felt like I was a more responsible human because I

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Speaker 1: I bought my meat rather than killing more animals and

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Speaker 1: that was a pretty accepted way of thinking. UM. But

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Speaker 1: it was about five years ago that I was really

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Speaker 1: uh introduced with a with a topic from a hunter

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Speaker 1: who kind of pope and questioned, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: eat meat and you're somebody who appreciates the outdoors or

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Speaker 1: somebody who is you know, for wildlife conservation, what is

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Speaker 1: it about you that pushes you away from hunting? And

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Speaker 1: it was a it was a question that I had

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Speaker 1: to wrestle with um and had to kind of force

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Speaker 1: myself to give some thought too. And what I came

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Speaker 1: up with was it wasn't that I was necessarily opposed

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Speaker 1: to hunting, because you know, I've grown up about once

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Speaker 1: a year, Dad and I would go out in the

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Speaker 1: field and go deave hunting, and um, just to be

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Speaker 1: together as father and son. It was not at all

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Speaker 1: to be a serious hunter by any means, would just

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Speaker 1: be together. UM. And so when I was proposed you,

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Speaker 1: when I was given the question, I had to really

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Speaker 1: think through, you know, why I was against it. So

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Speaker 1: it wasn't that I was against hunting, but there was

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Speaker 1: more so this this image that I had when somebody

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Speaker 1: were to say, you know that they are a hunter.

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Speaker 1: I almost put this image in my head and I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to be that. Um. I didn't really know why.

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Speaker 1: I just didn't want to be that UM. So when

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Speaker 1: I when I had to really wrestle with the question,

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Speaker 1: what I came up with was there's a reception of

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Speaker 1: hunting and hunters in America that really turns off the

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Speaker 1: rest of the non hunters, you know, the rest of

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Speaker 1: America that quantifiably there's six of people in America who

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Speaker 1: are agnostic to hunting. You know, they they eat meat,

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Speaker 1: they you know, they have an appreciation for wildlife. They've

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Speaker 1: just never really been presented with hunting and they never

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Speaker 1: really haven't had a good opportunity to understand what hunting

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Speaker 1: is all about. So as a as an entrepreneur and

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Speaker 1: a cereal uh you know, creator, I couldn't let this pass.

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Speaker 1: And so I thought, Man, we've got to create. I've

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Speaker 1: got to create something that starts to open up hunting

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Speaker 1: to non hunters and gives them a reason to see this.

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Speaker 1: The way that I've seen this been shown kind of

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Speaker 1: a new direction and a new vision in this um

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Speaker 1: And it really starts with the creatives and brands and

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Speaker 1: organizations inside the industry that are telling the story in

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Speaker 1: a way that's both approachable and and aspirational to everybody

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Speaker 1: who's really only seen, you know, kind of the one

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Speaker 1: sided which is not objectively wrong, but the camo uh mindset.

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Speaker 1: And so there was a lot of creatives in the

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Speaker 1: space who were coming at it from a much more um,

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Speaker 1: not romantic perspective, but honest perspective, this story in a

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Speaker 1: much larger format that I was able to digest and

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Speaker 1: feel a connection to. And so I started an Instagram

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Speaker 1: channel called Modern huntsman um and started to curate content

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Speaker 1: from photographers and filmmakers and brands and organizations who I

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Speaker 1: fell or were distributing this this media in a way

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Speaker 1: that felt good, felt the way that I believe hunters

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Speaker 1: feel um whenever they whenever they hunt. And so in

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Speaker 1: doing that, UM, we started to build this channel, me

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Speaker 1: and my my partner early on and UH when we

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Speaker 1: when we got to a point of uh, about five

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Speaker 1: weeks after we started the channel, we had about five

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Speaker 1: thousand followers, and it was like, Okay, this is this

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Speaker 1: is real, and this is a need in the industry.

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Speaker 1: And the majority of the people that were following us

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Speaker 1: were actually non hunters. So in light of that, um,

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Speaker 1: I knew that this needs to expand out further. Um So,

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Speaker 1: fate happened and I met Tyler, whom had this vision

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Speaker 1: that I had, but he has a totally different background

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Speaker 1: as regard to, you know, being a hunter and a

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Speaker 1: filmmaker photographer. Um So I met him and we shared

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Speaker 1: this similar vision and a similar approach to create a

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Speaker 1: platform that we could um present to both the hunting

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Speaker 1: and the non hunting communities that would conversation. UM I'll

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Speaker 1: let Tyler take it from here. Yeah, So without taking

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Speaker 1: too much time on my background, I mean, I'm a photographer, writer,

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Speaker 1: and director and I've been working in the outdoor industry

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Speaker 1: for the last twelve years and a lot of the

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Speaker 1: culmination of my frustration with my experience in the hunting

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Speaker 1: industry and with from without the hunting industry has kind

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Speaker 1: of led to this. And the first time Brand and

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Speaker 1: I met about three years ago, he kind of told

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Speaker 1: me about what he was wanting to do, but I

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Speaker 1: wasn't sure which direction to take it. And I said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I know this is gonna sound weird because we just met,

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Speaker 1: but what you're describing is probably going to be my

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Speaker 1: life's work and you need to hire me as your

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Speaker 1: creative director right now. And he was like, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: let's finish this coffee and we can talk about it. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, I just I you know, I

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Speaker 1: traveled UM all over the world filming for several but

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Speaker 1: for hunting shows UM, and just kind of had a

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Speaker 1: little more of a traditional view of the hunting industry.

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Speaker 1: And part of my frustration with that was that even

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Speaker 1: though there are a lot of people who are dedicated conservationists,

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Speaker 1: ethical hunters, UM, in most cases they are talking to

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Speaker 1: a room full of members of the same club and

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Speaker 1: they say, hey, we all believe this right, and everybody

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Speaker 1: says yeah. But then when that conversation leaves the room

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Speaker 1: and it and it is applied to a you know,

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Speaker 1: non hunting public, it it ceases to become productive and

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Speaker 1: it often becomes a conflict. And so that was half

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Speaker 1: of my frustration. And the other half of my frustration

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Speaker 1: was when I would come back from places in Africa

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Speaker 1: or Russia or Pakistan or wherever on hunts and my

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Speaker 1: friends and family who don't have an insight into hunting's

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Speaker 1: role in conservation, they would get often emotional or upset

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Speaker 1: at me for things that they've read online that aren't

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Speaker 1: true about you know, animals being threatened it aren't or

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Speaker 1: just the way hunting actually works, sort of having this

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Speaker 1: perception of what a trophy hunter is. And so those

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Speaker 1: two things combined, UH, for the last ten or twelve years,

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Speaker 1: I've really wanted to find a way to improve both

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Speaker 1: of those situations. Uh, find a way to help hunters

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Speaker 1: communicate to a non hunting public in a way that's

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Speaker 1: less aggressive and less exclusive, and then vice versa, a,

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Speaker 1: non find ways to educate the public about you know,

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Speaker 1: hunting's rolling conservation, that that there are people who conduct

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Speaker 1: themselves in a much more ethical and honorable way than

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Speaker 1: than what you might see and sensationalized news headlines or

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Speaker 1: Facebook posts and all that kind of stuff. And so

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Speaker 1: we sort of came to the conclusion that we need

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Speaker 1: to produce a magazine, and that led to Volume one

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Speaker 1: of Modern huntsmen Um. And so, you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a two or four page book with no ads,

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Speaker 1: and you know, Brad and I kind of hand picked

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Speaker 1: all the people we wanted to have involved, and from

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Speaker 1: the very beginning it became clear that our number one

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Speaker 1: recruit would be Mr Charles Post, who is who I

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Speaker 1: believe to be a unicorn in the hunting world. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so him and I are now working together to

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Speaker 1: move into volume two of Modern Huntsmen to try to

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Speaker 1: achieve these goals. But I'll use that. Let Charles give

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Speaker 1: you a little bit of his background. Oh, two kinds, Tyler. Um, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I guess to fill the shoes of the unicorn

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Speaker 1: that I've been offered. Um My, yeah, my background is

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Speaker 1: a bit interesting, and that I did grow up hunting.

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Speaker 1: You know, my my father was a hunter. He was

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Speaker 1: also kind of a lifelong conservationist, was on the board

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Speaker 1: of California Trout. My grandfather was a Harvard trained forrester

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Speaker 1: who also hunted wolves in Minnesota back when there's a

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Speaker 1: bounty on them. So I grew up staying at their

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Speaker 1: place in Virginia and the wolf skins were the blankets

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Speaker 1: we had in the in the rooms we stayed. And

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of this weird thing where I grew

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Speaker 1: up in California and Marine County, which is an incredibly

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Speaker 1: liberal part of the state. UM ended up pursuing undergraduate

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Speaker 1: and graduate degree at UC Berkeley's studying ecology there. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, Berkeley's for Better if it Works, probably one

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Speaker 1: of the most liberal institutions on earth. Um. But it

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Speaker 1: gave me this really interesting dual perspective of of hunting,

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Speaker 1: of stewardship, conservation, and also you know, a really close

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Speaker 1: connection to you know, a largely non hunting world. You know,

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Speaker 1: there there definitely are hunters in central and northern California,

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Speaker 1: but I think the overwhelming population of the area is

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Speaker 1: frankly pretty disconnected from the hunting community in the hunting world,

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Speaker 1: so kind of straddled this line of you know, of

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Speaker 1: one foot in each in each camp. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: I understand the far right and I understand the far left,

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Speaker 1: and I've spent a lot of time, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of rubbing shoulders with friends and family and peers

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Speaker 1: who identified both places. But you know, when Tyler and

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Speaker 1: Brad you know, kind of sprouted this modern huntsman idea,

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Speaker 1: it was something in that that felt right. It was

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Speaker 1: something that you know, I think intentive come at a

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Speaker 1: better time because for me, you know what my life's

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Speaker 1: work and my passion you know, really kind of orbits

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Speaker 1: this idea of stewardship and this reality that now more

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Speaker 1: than ever, we need to get people outside and need

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Speaker 1: to build bridges as opposed to illuminating these these points

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Speaker 1: of conflict or these perceived points of conflict. And you know,

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Speaker 1: while I really appreciate, you know, Brad's comment about or

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Speaker 1: I was comment about people talking about Hunteen being these

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Speaker 1: kind of island situations where everybody echoes, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of the same perspective, and then you you leave and

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Speaker 1: enter the public realm, and people don't really understand the

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Speaker 1: lexicon or don't understand the pursuit or the passion. You know.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the things that's interesting here is

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Speaker 1: that not only do we need to change that narrative,

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Speaker 1: but also real is that that if we can focus

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Speaker 1: on hunting as a group of people that does have

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Speaker 1: the best and could be better end of the spectrum,

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Speaker 1: we should be focusing on those best case examples of

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Speaker 1: stewardship of people who are hunting for the right reasons.

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Speaker 1: Because just like there are vegans who take it too far,

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Speaker 1: there are vegans who do a mindful job. And I

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Speaker 1: think hunting is not perfect, and I think one of

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Speaker 1: the things that excites me about modern huntsmen this opportunity

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Speaker 1: is that we can profile and celebrate up with those

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Speaker 1: best stories that that show that hunting is not killing,

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Speaker 1: it's hunting and hunting. You know, you could be a

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Speaker 1: deer hunter and never harvest the deer, and by virtue

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Speaker 1: of being a hunter, you care about nature and and

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Speaker 1: now more than ever, we need people to care about

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Speaker 1: these natural spaces. Um. So it's yeah, I think it's

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Speaker 1: a very timely effort, and it's it's an exciting one.

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Speaker 1: I think Issue one really set the stage um for

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Speaker 1: us to really dive into issue too, and it can

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Speaker 1: be more proud to be a part of what lies ahead. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's exciting I think for me from the outside

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Speaker 1: looking into because a lot of your guys as concerns

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Speaker 1: and some of the different things that led you to

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Speaker 1: to create this have been things that have been on

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Speaker 1: my mind a lot too, and it's something I think

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Speaker 1: about a lot and talk about a lot. That being,

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Speaker 1: you know, how do we as a hunting community better

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Speaker 1: represent ourselves, How do we better engage the non hunting public.

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Speaker 1: You know, welcome those who are interested in joining us,

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Speaker 1: and for those who aren't interested but are kind of

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Speaker 1: on the fence at least present a positive representation of

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Speaker 1: what we're doing and don't give people really easy, stupid

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Speaker 1: reasons to think those stereotypes are true. Um. But to

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Speaker 1: your point earlier, Tyler, that being that lots of times

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Speaker 1: us in the hunting community, especially those of us who

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Speaker 1: who grew up doing this, who don't know anything else. Um. Again,

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Speaker 1: we're in this echo chamber. We just talked to each other,

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Speaker 1: and we don't ever or don't often think about what

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Speaker 1: things look like from the outside. But we're still posting

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Speaker 1: things on Facebook or Instagram, am or on TV shows

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Speaker 1: that sometimes the rest of the world sees many times

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Speaker 1: us not realizing what they're seeing and them not realizing

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing because there's not that shared context. Um.

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Speaker 1: So my question for you, maybe first bread given you

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Speaker 1: know how you lead this off the fact that you

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Speaker 1: were a non hunter, but you were turned off by

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Speaker 1: this perception of what a hunter was or what the

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Speaker 1: stereotype of a hunter was. I'm curious, from from your

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Speaker 1: guys perspective, what are those things that turned you off?

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Speaker 1: What are the things you saw or the things you heard,

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Speaker 1: or what actually flesh out what that negative connotation was

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Speaker 1: that turned you off to hunting, Because I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's helpful for those in the hunting community who maybe

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Speaker 1: don't think about this to hear from someone like you

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Speaker 1: to understand you, Oh wow, maybe I was saying things

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Speaker 1: in this way. I never thought that someone would be,

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Speaker 1: you know, seeing that in a different way than I did. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: so that's my long and rambling way of saying, can

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Speaker 1: you share some examples? Absolutely? And I want to answer

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Speaker 1: this question softly and be very cautious about how I

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Speaker 1: approach this because it's not an objective UM person or

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Speaker 1: a stance. It's it's more of UM how it's perceived.

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Speaker 1: Because what I've come to learn, you know, from my

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Speaker 1: background and non hunting and not having a lot of

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Speaker 1: interaction with hunters, is that the way that I perceived

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Speaker 1: this person. I'll kind of get into that just second.

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Speaker 1: This this person UM when I talked to them different right,

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Speaker 1: the way that they interact with me, and they talk

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Speaker 1: about wildlife and they talk about the experience that they

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Speaker 1: had hunting or or what it is for them, and

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Speaker 1: oftentimes it is something they grew up with, right that

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Speaker 1: they went out with their dad and their granddad, or

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Speaker 1: maybe their mom and their grandmother, and they this is

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Speaker 1: a way of life. It's not, it's just the way

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Speaker 1: that I thought about literally is the way that they

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Speaker 1: thought about hunting. And I had to kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: digest that and and realize that this is, this is

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Speaker 1: a way of life for so many people on me,

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Speaker 1: my friends and family. It's not just people on the outside.

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Speaker 1: But the stereotype that I had in my mind was

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Speaker 1: more so something that I've seen on social media, and

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Speaker 1: I think everybody can kind of relate to it. And

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Speaker 1: it's just that kind of blood aggressive photo of you know,

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Speaker 1: the misinterpretation, the misunderstanding of what a trophy hunt might

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Speaker 1: look like. And it's it's the aggressive, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: way of the um you know, holding up the bloody

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Speaker 1: head of a white tail and and it's it's got

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Speaker 1: his tongue hanging out, and it's just a poor representation

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Speaker 1: and it's only one snapshot of what the full experience was.

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Speaker 1: And that's something that you know, with my background in

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Speaker 1: in kind of the creative industry and um and really

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Speaker 1: understanding like how do we tell stories that are going

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Speaker 1: to connect and convey a much more honest and beautiful

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Speaker 1: depiction of whatever it is that we're talking about. People

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Speaker 1: get one moment to try and identify and understand with

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Speaker 1: a with a culture, and if it's a culture that

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Speaker 1: they're unfamiliar with, and especially one like this where it's

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Speaker 1: got so much political intensity and it's got so so

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Speaker 1: many people that are against it. We get one chance,

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Speaker 1: often to show a representation of what we believe. And

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Speaker 1: if that one representation is the twisted neck of a

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Speaker 1: bloody white tail, it's not the story. And I know

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Speaker 1: that this is something that is not going to be

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Speaker 1: solved overnight. Right We're not going to be able to

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Speaker 1: release one issue of a of a publication that is

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Speaker 1: going to inspire and invigorate a new type of sharing

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Speaker 1: either stories or content on social media. But what I

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Speaker 1: hope to do, what we have all collectively worked so

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Speaker 1: hard to create, is is a way to kind of

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Speaker 1: spearhead and and lead a generation of people into um

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Speaker 1: conveying and representing hunting in a way that is both

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Speaker 1: honorable and respectful towards the wild life and the land,

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Speaker 1: and also inspiring and aspirational towards those who may have

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Speaker 1: never even given hunting a second thought. And I'm gonna,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna, well go ahead. Did you have a question, No,

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Speaker 1: I was going to toss it to you, Charles or Tyler,

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Speaker 1: so I'd love to hear we have to dad, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is Tyler. I'm gonna jump in here. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that, um, you know, my answer is kind

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Speaker 1: of too full to to piggyback on what Brad said.

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Speaker 1: I think that for me, you know, being deeply embedded

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Speaker 1: in the traditional hunting industry, you know, there were times

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Speaker 1: where I'd be out on hunts and you don't always

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Speaker 1: agree with people, right, you make your uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's in the same way that we could all agree

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Speaker 1: on virtues right or honesty, courage, bravery, loyalty. Those are

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Speaker 1: all things that we can agree are good on a

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Speaker 1: moral scale. Well, I would like to think that there

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Speaker 1: are also similar virtues in hunting that we're trying to

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Speaker 1: represent through modern huntsmen and in the stories we tell

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Speaker 1: and the people we involve. But not everybody adheres to

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Speaker 1: those And unfortunately the conversation, as Charles said about you

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Speaker 1: know this traditional fight of the right versus the left, Well,

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Speaker 1: if you're not fully with us, you're against us. And

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Speaker 1: if you don't sign up for the you know, super

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Speaker 1: right wing, than you're a liberal communist Tippy, and I

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Speaker 1: found myself in situations where I didn't agree with someone

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Speaker 1: because I felt like they were using buzzwords like conservation

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Speaker 1: when they really weren't in fact a conservation minded person.

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Speaker 1: They just wanted to kill something. And unfortunately, the way

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Speaker 1: that the fight and the conflict in that conversation has

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Speaker 1: become you're either one camp. You're in one camp or

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Speaker 1: the other. And so we felt that there was kind

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Speaker 1: of a large population of people who live quiet lives

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Speaker 1: um who live in an ethical you know, hunting standard,

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Speaker 1: or are dedicated conservationists, or really just hunt for their

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Speaker 1: own meat because it's part of their budget, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's just part of their you know, their lifestyle

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Speaker 1: passed down through generations. That we felt that group of

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Speaker 1: people wasn't being really represented at all and definitely not

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Speaker 1: fairly represented. And so, you know, Brad's hold upon that

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Speaker 1: by accident with insta gram channel, and it has been

432
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: a booming echo that it is indeed much needed, that

433
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who don't agree with magazines, say,

434
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 1: or the big brands who are more focused on selling

435
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: product than they are about the actual preservation of hunting tradition,

436
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: and so we're trying to focus on that stuff, um

437
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: and and you know, with with non hunters, I'm trying

438
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: to really listen to what they have to say, and

439
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, you know, what do they think about

440
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: what we post? And I think that that's one of

441
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: the main points I'm trying to make about hunters is

442
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: we have to be very wary of the power of

443
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: images and how quickly information can spread for good or

444
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: online and what that can do to either improve the

445
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: perception of hunting or do further damage, because a lot

446
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: of damage has been been done and there's a lot

447
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: of images out there that can't be removed, and so

448
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: we're trying to show that there's a different way, and

449
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: that there's a different demographic of people that represent what

450
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: we feel are the main virtues of what hunting is

451
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: supposed to be. And through that, the tone we've taken,

452
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: in the sensitivity that we're showing towards people who are

453
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 1: not hunters has worked. And there are a lot of

454
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: people who have ordered this magazine who were either vegans

455
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: or non hunters. And I just talked with the young

456
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 1: lady the other day from California who literally told me,

457
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: I read your magazine and was so inspired that I

458
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: signed up for a hunting camp in Washington and she

459
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: went up and learned how to hunt and shot her

460
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: first turkey and harvested it, and she said it's the

461
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: most amazing experience of her life. And she may not

462
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: be a hardcore hunter, but what we did directly caused

463
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: her to become interested. I think that the conclusion there

464
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: is that when when people who aren't hunters realize that

465
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: they can be quote a hunter, or they can provide

466
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: some food for themselves, maybe a couple of times a year,

467
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: a deer or a turkey or a wild hog, and

468
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: they don't have to sign up for the rest, They

469
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 1: don't have to sign up for the gear and the

470
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,719
Speaker 1: camo and the hunting conventions and all that. That they

471
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: can live their life in a in a way that feels,

472
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, rewarding and is more connected with the land.

473
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: And that's something that they can do on their own terms,

474
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: and that we can help them find access to opportunities information.

475
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: It's been really it's been. The reaction has been really positive.

476
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: So let me let me present a different perspective playing

477
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: devil's advocate here, because I agree with everything you guys

478
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: are saying, and what I'm gonna present to you I

479
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: fundamentally disagree with. But this is something that even when

480
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: I talked about this kind of stuff, sometimes you'll hear

481
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: this response. You'll say, why do I need to care

482
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: about what these other people think? Or why should we

483
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: want more non hunters to get into hunting. There's not

484
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: enough spots to hunt as it is. I don't need

485
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,719
Speaker 1: more competition, Or why should I cater to some yuppie

486
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: over in this place who doesn't get me at all?

487
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah. You'll hear that kind of

488
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: response from people. Why what would your response to that?

489
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: Um to that be? So I'm gonna give a real

490
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: quick response, and then I want Charles to jump in.

491
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: My surface level response to that would be because we

492
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: now live in an age where they're our legislation, legislative opportunities,

493
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: votes that come up about access to public lands that

494
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: the general public or people who might be against hunting

495
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: have a say in. And if we continue to combat

496
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: those people and treat them as people whose opinion don't matter,

497
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: that's going to come back to bite us in the ass,

498
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: and we could potentially lose access or hunting rights as

499
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: a result. And I'm gonna I'm gonna throw the ball

500
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: to Charles there. Yeah, you bring up a great point, Tyler,

501
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: and and Mark, that's a really an interesting question. I

502
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: think what comes to mind for me, and to kind

503
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: of add to a little bit of what Tyler started

504
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: off introducing, is that most of the public land in

505
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: America is not instagram famous, you know, is not showing

506
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: up in the Chris burkhard feed or and then that

507
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: geo feed. The places that people harvest, you know, some

508
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: of the best mule deer in the Vada or Utah,

509
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: or some of the best elk its in Montana, these

510
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: aren't places that people are going the hike in camp

511
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: and take you know, photos by the lake. So those

512
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: are just public lands. Those are just pieces of public land.

513
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: And like, like Tyler said that public land belongs to

514
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: all the hunters, but also everybody else, and people in

515
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: Portland's and people in Salt Lake City and people in

516
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: Boise who maybe have never hunted or could really care

517
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: less about it, they have a say. And like we've

518
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: talked about if if the currency for the hunting kind

519
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: of community and culture, you know, and maybe this is

520
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: a generalization in some senses is the grip and grand

521
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: photo that we all know deters non hunters, and like

522
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: Brad pointed out, really shines the light on one kind

523
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: of unfortunate moment and the whole experience. Right, Like you

524
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: wake up a sun right, you go have your hunt.

525
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: Most times you don't even kill anything, But there's all

526
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: the moments that make these adventures epic and make these

527
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: days spent outside transformative, right, And it's it's the sunrise

528
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: at the time, spent with friends and family, It's the

529
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: experiences to pursuit, you know. It's all of these things,

530
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: the numerable you know, qualities that are attached to hunting

531
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: that we all love and and seek out. But it's

532
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: that one that one image which the hunting industry has

533
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: propagated has has has confirmed that photo is worth something too,

534
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: because we post it, we publish it, we celebrate it.

535
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: It's the thumbnail on the video, it's the cover of

536
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: the magazine. And that doesn't do hunters any good because

537
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: there are more non hunters than hunters. And if you

538
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: just think about the pie and you're a little slice

539
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: of the hunting community, the rest of that pie has

540
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: a voice that's equal to yours in terms of public land.

541
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: So if your goals hunter is to have your grandkids

542
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: be able to hunt the units in places that you

543
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: grew up hunting, then it's in your best interests and

544
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: your kid's best interest to play ball and to understand

545
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: that that what we're after is the opportunity to hunt.

546
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: What we're after our healthy ecosystems that support and produce

547
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: healthy populations of animals. So you can go get that

548
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: elf to fill your freezer, bucked to put on your wall,

549
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you're after. But it's a

550
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: shared resource that, by virtue of being an American, belongs

551
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: to everybody. So it's just this reality that there needs

552
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: to be an intention to appreciate the fact that we

553
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: all have an equal stake in this, that public land

554
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: needs advocates rather more than ever, because of politics, because

555
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: of big business, because of development and resourcing to all

556
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: these threats to public land. So we need allies. You know,

557
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: we're not doing ourselves any favors by by isolating ourselves

558
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: and all going on to the same island. And I

559
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: think you know with that, I draw a parallel to

560
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: the outdoor industry, which is a place that I've spent

561
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: a lot of time in my career and you know,

562
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: being an outdoor recreator um you know, identify with and

563
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: and same with, the same with you know folks. And

564
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: on that side of the aisle, their currency is climbing

565
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: the big wall is somebody in the mountain is how

566
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: fast did you do the pct? How light was your pack?

567
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: It's not stewardship those places of they're experiencing, whether it's

568
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: you know, Denali National Park or the North Cascades. I

569
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: mean these places were set aside because of their ecological

570
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: integrity as places with with timber, with clean water, with wildlife.

571
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: They weren't set aside for Instagram. They weren't set aside

572
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: for for overnight backpacking trips. But the outdoor industry has

573
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: propagated this currency of athletic feet over anything. And just

574
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: like the hunting industry should should realize that that it's

575
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: not just the grippic grand photo and that groups like

576
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: Modern Huntsmen and publications like Hours are aiming to move

577
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: the needle back towards a place of reverence, back towards

578
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: a place of of of dialogue. You know, the outdoor

579
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: industry is equally in my opinion, in need of rebranding

580
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: because what what what they're celebrating the currency that's in

581
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: that industry is not propagating stewardship by and large. So

582
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: I think it's not just hunting, uh you know problem.

583
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: I think the overarching theme and we're just addressing it

584
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: through this one channel, is to tell everybody, you know, hey,

585
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: these places and these ecosystems need management, they need stewards

586
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: they need attention being paid to the whole system, not

587
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: just you know the epic you know, Granite Wall or

588
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: or the big buck that you know that we have

589
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: at our knees. Um. So I think it's kind of

590
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a nod to this, this, this,

591
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: this deeper, you know, this closer look at at at

592
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: stewardship in general. Yeah. Uh, it's an interesting it's an

593
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: interesting position to be in from from the inside. And

594
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: I think a lot of this comes down to I

595
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: think number one, like you guys all addressed this a

596
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: couple realities of the situation. If if you want to

597
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: continue hunting in the future, right, we don't really control

598
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: our own fate, and that other people will be the

599
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 1: larger majority of people don't hunt and we need to

600
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: either present ourselves in a way that they'll accept and

601
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: not vote against our right and privilege to do what

602
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: we're doing right now, or if we don't do that

603
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: just pragmatically, if we don't do some of the things

604
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: you're saying, we might lose that privilege. Um. But but

605
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: I think a lot of this comes down to storytelling,

606
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: because as you were talking about earlier with the gripping

607
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: Grand picture, yeah, I mean that is that is especially

608
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: for someone who's just in this like who hunts all

609
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: the time and this is their life, is what they

610
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: love to do. A lot of my friends, even myself

611
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: at one point, never even thought a second about a

612
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: grip and grand like you were so excited to share,

613
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, show your buddy this picture, and then once

614
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram came around, then you want to share

615
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: it there because you know there's so much that went

616
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: into that photo. Of course that doesn't always conveyed through

617
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: a photo, but you know that there was all those

618
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: early mornings and all of that work, all spraying and

619
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: summer and preparing and hours and hours and hours in

620
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: the woods, and so much emotion and inks and excitement

621
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: and nervousness and it all came down to this one thing,

622
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: and in that one moment, it all worked out. And

623
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: now here you are, and you have this huge smile

624
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: on your face, and you've never been happier because of

625
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: all these things that led up to this great moment.

626
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: But that many times it isn't communicated through that picture. Um,

627
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 1: So the question is, though, how do you still how

628
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: do we still share our excitement and celebrate these special

629
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,959
Speaker 1: moments in our lives, but do it in a way

630
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: that doesn't negatively impact the bigger the bigger community. And

631
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: so I think to all your points already, it's it's

632
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: how do we communicate better? How do we present photography

633
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: or video or whatever in a respectful manner? And then

634
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: I think also providing text. You know, a simple thing

635
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: that I've just started doing now is that whenever I

636
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: do share an image that has, you know, an animal

637
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: that I've hunted and killed, try to provide some contexts

638
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: that explained what went into it, or why this matters,

639
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: or why this is a powerful moment, or or what

640
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: happened with that animal and that meal, And lots of times,

641
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: just a little bit of explanation for a non hunter

642
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: when they see this and if it's presented in a

643
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: respectful way, that is enough to help them connect the

644
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: dots and not have that kind of drastic gut just

645
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,959
Speaker 1: feeling of Paul Um. But this is where I'm heading

646
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: with this, when it comes to some of the context

647
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: or some of the reasoning behind hunting, or a little

648
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: bit maybe of how we like to UM. I think

649
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 1: the party line lots of times within the hunting community

650
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: when someone says, well, why do you hunt? Or you

651
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: shouldn't be able to hunt. That's a horrible thing. Why

652
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: would you do that? Many times one of the party

653
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: lines one of the speaking points as well hunting is conservation.

654
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: You know, by going out there and hunting these animals

655
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: or whatever, we're paying for all the conservation work, etcetera, etcetera.

656
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: UM And charl I actually heard you address this issue

657
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: on another podcast in the past, and I think you

658
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: had some some helpful perspective on this. I'd be curious

659
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: if you can speak to this a little bit too,

660
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: because this is something I felt a lot as well.

661
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: I wonder and I worry if sometimes we as hunters

662
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: leaned too much on default conservation by saying that, well,

663
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: we bought our license so we're contributing to conservation or

664
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 1: we bought a rifle and we got taxed on that,

665
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: so we're conservationists. Um is that enough? I don't think

666
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: it is. But what are your thoughts, Charles, and what

667
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: do you think about what the right next step could be.

668
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: How do we better live up to the conservationist mantle

669
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: if we want to use that as a as a

670
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: rationale for why we should be able to hunt or

671
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: why we have worth and value. Yeah, it's a great point.

672
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: It's it's one that that Ben O'Brien who has a

673
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: hunting collective podcast that I talked about a few weeks

674
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: ago or months ago now. But you know, it's shame

675
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: that because you hunt your conservationist the same That is

676
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 1: exactly the same as saying because you pay taxes your

677
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: pro infrastructure and pro bridge improvement and pro median management.

678
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's an involuntary tax that hunters

679
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: pay when they buy their license or buy ammunition. Um,

680
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it might be, you put some money

681
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: into the pot, it's not a voluntary you know, something

682
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: that you seek out as an individual with a with

683
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 1: a conscious mindset to say, hey, I'm going to pay

684
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: extra to do this. Um. You know, it's it's a tax,

685
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: like I said, just like road improvement or whatever. You know,

686
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: you know, your municipal tax. Um. So I think that's

687
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: kind of a you know, um misleading. I think it's

688
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: kind of just yet a low hanging fruit that that

689
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: everybody likes to pluck. I mean, that's the same thing

690
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: as saying, because you're vegan, you have no impact on

691
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: the earth. Um. But I would argue there's not There's

692
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: never been more white tailed deer in America, that's a

693
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: fact than there are today. And if you eat avocados,

694
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: a lot of them are going in northern Mexico where

695
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: monarch butterflies over winter. So I would argue that eating

696
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: whitetailed deer and most of the United States is a

697
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: much better thing to do for the environment than eating avocados.

698
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: But that's another conversation. So, you know, I think one

699
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: to be a conservationist, like Tyler said, it's a life's work.

700
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: It's it's a it's a pillar that identifies you on

701
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: the cellular level and also guides the way that you

702
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: that you carve your signature on their line. Whatever it

703
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: might be, you know that could be hard pulling to

704
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: go hunt. That could be biking to go hunt. That

705
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: could be you know whatever, packing your own making your

706
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,439
Speaker 1: own ammunition, or buying a used gun. There's all these

707
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: things that that that adds to your net impact on Earth. Right,

708
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: Like the worst thing we ever did to this planet

709
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: was be born. Right, So population is a huge problem.

710
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: So we just need to mitigate the best we can

711
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: our net impacts. And I think in a conservationist, there

712
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: are some, you know, some pretty conspicuous ways to to

713
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: be a hunting conservationist. And maybe that's getting involved with

714
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: your local UM Wild Chief Foundation chapter and helping with

715
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: some um some surveys, or helping with trail maintenance, or

716
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: just being a mindful, you know, stewardship guided landowner. And

717
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: maybe that's you know, that can take place in a

718
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: number of ways. Maybe that's um, you know, managing your forest,

719
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: doing controlled burns, if you have a if you have

720
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 1: a farm. There's all of these things that I think

721
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 1: are just you know, elements that collectively make you a conservationist.

722
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: I personally don't think that because you buy a you know,

723
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: you buy a license, that makes you a conservationist. I mean,

724
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: if you go watch your burger unit coologists or if

725
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: you go catch a fish or your fish biologists. You know,

726
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: I'd argue not. Um. So yeah, And in terms of

727
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: the storytelling aspect, you know, I was working on it

728
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: on a shoot down in South Texas a few years ago. Um,

729
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: it was a good friend done masters who's a you know,

730
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: it's a great hunter and certainly conservations in my mind,

731
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: and we were working with this with this outfitting group,

732
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 1: um who did an amazing job of curating those photos.

733
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: You know, they had clients coming out and hunting whitetail,

734
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: you know, down in South Texas, and before anybody took

735
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: any photo, they made sure that the animal was presentable,

736
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: that they're the blood was cleaned. Literally, these guys carried

737
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: a little spray bottle in their truck and before anybody

738
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: take a photo, they cleaned the animal up. If there

739
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: was anything that was you know, uh, you know, kind

740
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: of louded in your face, they mitigated it, whether it

741
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: was putting leaves over the wound or even dirt and

742
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 1: just making sure the tongue wasn't hanging out. They even

743
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: put little a little piece of glass over the eye.

744
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean they took it to like such an extreme level,

745
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: you know, probably more than most to be able to.

746
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: But it just showed like you wouldn't have expected that

747
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: if you brought somebody from you know, from a suburban

748
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: Portland down there, they would have been shocked and pleasantly surprised.

749
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: Because what these hunting guides from this outfitting operation knew

750
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: and realized is that the second in today's age, the

751
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: second you published something on your personal account, you're just

752
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: like a brand. You're just like a magazine. You're putting

753
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: content out into the world that is is by by nature,

754
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: by default of being published. It's open for you know,

755
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: for commentary, it's open for analysis and critique. And like

756
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: you brought up mark, you know, in the past, it

757
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: was this thing where you could take a take a photo,

758
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you had you know, a film camera

759
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: or whatever, you just taken on your phone and it

760
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily going to end up in in the you know,

761
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: out in the world representing you or community and your culture. Um.

762
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: So you know, it's one thing if you take a picture,

763
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: keep on your phone, don't publish it, you know, do

764
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: whatever you want. But I think the second you put

765
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: it out there, people need to remember that you're speaking

766
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: on behalf of your community, you know, whether it's uh,

767
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: you know, you hunting in your backyard or hunting public land.

768
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: Like you you're portraying hunting, and by default it's up

769
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: for you know, people to take a poke at if

770
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: they if they feel fitting. Um So, I think, yeah,

771
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: the main thing that I would say is, you know,

772
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: take take that picture, if if that if that picture

773
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: of the animal, and of that moment where you're you know,

774
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: your smile so big it hurts, you know, and it's

775
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: this really like this culmination of so many days and

776
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: moments and things coming together. Do that. But like you

777
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: were saying, Mark, you know, there's there's room for context,

778
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: that's you can write something about it. There's there's room

779
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: to you know, pay reverence to the animal. You know,

780
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be the big it's buck. It

781
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: could be just an animal that goes in your freezer.

782
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: And so a lot of people that's a big deal.

783
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: Um So, I think just realizing that the second it

784
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: goes out there, you have this this opportunity to tell

785
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 1: a story as opposed to just putting something out there

786
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: that the blank canvas or people to write whatever they want. Yeah,

787
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: and I think to to what your point was there,

788
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: I think lots of times what we need to realize

789
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: is that what we put out into the world that

790
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: then many times people if that's the one, you know,

791
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 1: opportunity to see this image or to see something related

792
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: to hunting or this, is there one contact point, all

793
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: of a sudden, that one thing might represent their entire

794
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: opinion or perspective on what hunting is or who hunters are.

795
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: And that's something that I think, um, I think ties

796
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 1: into the next tangent I kind of want to take

797
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: us down, which is how recently, in particular, with some

798
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: media frenzies, things have happened with hunting in Africa have

799
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: impacted hunting in North America. So something that shows up

800
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: on CNN that happened on a different continent all of

801
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: a sudden is causing a huge frenzy here in America

802
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: and causing people to ask why we're doing something here

803
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: in Michigan or something how that might relate to something

804
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: they saw on TV elsewhere. And I know, Tyler, you've

805
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: got a lot of experience in this, obviously spending time

806
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: in Africa. UM So I'm curious on two things. I'm

807
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 1: kind of curious what your thoughts are on how what's

808
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: happening in Africa may or may not impact America. And

809
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: then secondly the CNN Documentary Trophy. I don't know if

810
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: you guys saw this, but I watched this film and

811
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: when I while I was watching that, I was thinking

812
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: about what I just said. I was thinking, Wow, how

813
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: will someone watching this then translate that back to our

814
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: context here in North America. If you saw that film,

815
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: can you speak to what your thoughts on that was

816
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: and how some of the representations of hunting there um

817
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: could impact what's going on? And then I mean the

818
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: Cecil debacle, all the different things going on over there, um,

819
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts and all that. So yeah, well,

820
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: thankfully I've answered these questions in my head and in

821
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 1: my personal life many times. Um. So, my first job

822
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: I went to USC. I went to University of Southern

823
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: California study photography and film, and my first job out

824
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: of college was in Tanzania. I moved straight to the

825
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: bush and filmed hunting Safaris for five months and it

826
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: was a, you know, a completely transformative experience. And when

827
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: I came home, the kind of flak that I was

828
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: we got even from friends and family in Texas of

829
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 1: all states about what I was doing. Really showed me

830
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: how much of a disconnect there was between what people

831
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 1: view hunting in Africa to be and what the actual

832
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: situation is. And so my main story in Modern Husband

833
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: the first issue was called Africa Overture, and it's literally

834
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: my effort to kind of communicate a lot of the

835
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: topics of conversation I've had to have over the years

836
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 1: about how it actually works in Africa. And it's different

837
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,959
Speaker 1: for every country, and you know, but for the most part,

838
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: the you know, as Charles says, the best examples or

839
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: what I focused on with that, and I try to

840
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: talk about the in between. Right, they're supposed to be.

841
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 1: You know, there's government mandated game reserves that are least

842
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: to safari companies and it's there in their best interest

843
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: to effectively manage those areas with conservation efforts, and the

844
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: government is there. They do censuses um and based on

845
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: those sentences, they issue a certain number of permits for

846
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: whatever species that's supposed to adhere to a specific you know,

847
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: wildlife management percentage. Well there's a gradient there of how

848
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: successful or you know, accurate those surveys are there's a

849
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: you know, a gradient of people's ethics of should they

850
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: shoot that full quota or is that the government saying, well,

851
00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: we just want more money, so we're going to say

852
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: there's more almost here than there actually are. So but

853
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 1: the point is that there are some incredible conservation over there,

854
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: and some of the most successful conservation in Africa, most

855
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: of in fact, is done by hunting operations, and um,

856
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 1: you know, I actually worked for the gentleman who bought

857
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: the black rhino tag a couple of years ago at

858
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: the Dallas Safari Club. And the Shabbian government issues a

859
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: rhino tag of per sale every year because there's usually

860
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: some aggressive bull or sterile bull that's killed other young males.

861
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: And they auctioned this thing off at the Dalla Safari

862
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: Club and they literally had a million dollars that they

863
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: were going to pay for this tag, which was gonna

864
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 1: go on into the rhino conservation rhino con conservancy there

865
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: and in Namibia, and the animal rights groups got wind

866
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: of it and they sent in death threats enough to

867
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: where the FBI had to show up and said that

868
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: anyone who bids on this rhino hunt we're going to kill.

869
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: And so everyone got scared off except for Corey Nolton,

870
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: who have They eventually did to see an end comentary

871
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: on and so when the bidding opened, he bid three

872
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: dollars and no one else bid because they were scared

873
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: that they were going to get their life's ruined by

874
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: animal rights you know, protagonists or antagonists. And so rather

875
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: than the bid going the way of what it was

876
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: supposed to and a million dollars go to rhino conservation,

877
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 1: those animal rights groups literally blocked three quarters of a

878
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: million dollars from going to rhino conservation. And that's just

879
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: purely out of ignorance and lack of understanding of the

880
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: way the situation is. And you know, the whole Cecil situation,

881
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: that's that's a a complicated issue. To be fair, that

882
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: guy was sold a lion license that was not on license,

883
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: so it was a little bit of an ethics issue

884
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: with the game scout in in in that country. Um,

885
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: there's some lessons there. I mean, I think that anyone

886
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: in their right mind who was going on a lion

887
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,959
Speaker 1: hunt who saw radio collared lion might think twice about

888
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: if that's a good idea from a publicity standpoint to

889
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: do something like that, and hunting in itself a very

890
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 1: controversial issue. Um that you know, has a, like I said,

891
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: a spectrum of of you know, is this a good

892
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: or bad thing? And it just depends on the area.

893
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: But the point is that people in the West have

894
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: developed a very strong emotional attachment to animals that in

895
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: most cases they've never seen. And often the public opinion

896
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: of these topics is swayed by whoever yells the loudest,

897
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,959
Speaker 1: and in most cases, animal rights and anti hunting groups

898
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: are the ones that yell the loudest, or have the

899
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 1: most money, or unfortunately, take some of these bloody trophy

900
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 1: photos that we all put online and turn those into

901
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 1: memes that then then they then put millions of dollars

902
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: behind to market and spread across the internet. So the

903
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 1: opinion has been swayed in a lot of cases by misinformation.

904
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: And so at the very least, we are trying to

905
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: showcase the facts and the realities and the goods and

906
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: the bads in between. And you know, we want to

907
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: focus on the good, but you see the good in

908
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: context of the bad, and that there are people who

909
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: aren't out to conserve, they about to make money. And

910
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, in a real in a reality as you

911
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: applying to the United States. Because of the backlash that

912
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: the administration received. Because of the backlash the administration received

913
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: about you know, some of these Africa hunts, it has

914
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 1: created a ban in the United States of importation of

915
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: elephant and lion um trophies, harvests just skins or touched

916
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: or anything like that. And so the result of that

917
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: is that the African governments have now are are now

918
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: currently losing hundreds of millions of dollars every year that

919
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: it would be directly uh, you know, applied to conservation.

920
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: And so a lot of these hunting operations in remote

921
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,399
Speaker 1: areas have shut down and they've had to give their

922
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: areas back to the government, which basically means there are

923
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: now massive game reserves, tens of millions of acres that

924
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 1: are no longer being effectively anti you know, anti poaching

925
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: patrols are not in they're not being managed anymore, and

926
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: so poachers are moving in, you know, ivory poachers, meet

927
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: poach trs, tree poachers. Which is an often overlooked problem

928
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: in Africa is habitat loss. So people who cut down

929
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: trees or move their cattles and to move their cattle

930
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: into areas that they're not supposed to graze in as

931
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: the habitat that these animals, you know, African wildlife need

932
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 1: to survive, and with population expansion, habitat destruction and the

933
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: increasing conflict of all three of them is created a

934
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: major problem. And unfortunately, as legislation goes in the United States,

935
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 1: so conservation goes in Africa. So it's been a very

936
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: bad thing. And then beyond that, just the word hunter

937
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: right is being painted as a negative thing, which is

938
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: part of the reason we chose the term huntsman instead

939
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: of hunter, because we wanted to get away from the

940
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: current connotation of the word hunter. And that's not meant

941
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: to be a gender exclusion for people who might wonder that.

942
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: It's more of a poetic word that has a gender

943
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: in the same way that Spanish and its Italian words

944
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: have gender. So it's meant to be sort of um,

945
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: a little more of a poetic representation of what the

946
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,919
Speaker 1: tradition is supposed to be um And we're hoping that

947
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: by that we can start to show people that, Okay,

948
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: what you see on the news is not what we're

949
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: talking about. We're talking about something different. And also what

950
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: you see on the news isn't quite accurate. This is

951
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: the deal, and we're trying to be presented presenters of

952
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: those facts and perspectives so that hopefully people start to,

953
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: you know, use a little bit more logic and rationale. Yeah,

954
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: I think I think the African example, what happened there

955
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: around a few of these incidents and how that translated

956
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: to the media frenzy in America and then law changes,

957
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: I think that is a great example. And then I

958
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: think also what recently happened in British Columbia with the

959
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: banning of grizzly bear hunting. Both of these things were

960
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: kind of public opinion um votes, or or just catering

961
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: to an uproar of opinion around something that sometimes isn't

962
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 1: fully understood, or there's misinformation around there, or one bad

963
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: apple painted the whole thing um. But I think there

964
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: are examples that we should look to as to why

965
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: this whole idea of representing ourselves positively matters. I know

966
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: probably some people listening, and I've talked about this so much,

967
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: they might think that I'm just like appear on stage

968
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: preaching all the time about this and it might maybe

969
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: gets tiring. And I apologize if that's the case. But

970
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: I think that we are just seeing now real life

971
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:26,720
Speaker 1: impacts that are coming to fruition when we're not careful

972
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: about how the public perceives what we're doing. Because if

973
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: we represent things in the wrong way now things are happening.

974
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: Privileges and rights are being taken away, laws are being changed,

975
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 1: and um, you know that that's just just something that

976
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: while it's not convenient sometimes it's a pain, but to

977
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: have to think about all these different things, it simply

978
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: is the reality that we live in. And I think

979
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: being mindful in these ways, um is probably our best

980
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: step moving forward if we want to continue to be

981
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: able to live this lifestyle. Now to what you just mentioned, Tyler,

982
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: this idea of of the modern huntsmen or modern hunter,

983
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: or however people want to take this, what is is

984
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: your guys, vision of what that person is. What's your

985
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: vision of the future hunter, of the of the modern

986
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 1: future hunter. What does this person and this lifestyle look

987
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: like going forward? If we want to keep this thing

988
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: going forward. Sure, I think that this is something that

989
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: I definitely want Charles to weigh in in on as well,

990
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 1: because you know, in the same way that you know,

991
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: when we've been talking to brands or sponsors and your

992
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: partners for ongoing issues or web stories, people say, what's

993
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: your demographic right, And the answer to that question is

994
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,720
Speaker 1: not a very succinct pinpointed, Okay, this is the exact

995
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: type of person we're looking for. This is the exact

996
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: type of person we're trying to represent. We're more so

997
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: representing a mindset and a value system and an approach

998
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: to what we've is the best case of ethical hunting

999
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: and conservation and stewardship. And so whether that's a ten

1000
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 1: year old, you know kid down in Alabama, or that's

1001
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: a twenty four year olds in college graduate from California,

1002
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: where that's a sixty five year old guy in in

1003
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: Minnesota who feels like he's never been able to truly

1004
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: express what how he feels and he feels like his

1005
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: voice gets drowned out with the hunting industry. So I

1006
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:23,399
Speaker 1: think that realistically, it's more of someone who um kind

1007
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 1: of anything that we've said up to this point, if

1008
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: it resonates with you, that's who we think. You know,

1009
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 1: we're we're trying to reach here, and we're trying to

1010
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: become a resource and a gathering point for like minded

1011
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: creatives hunters and and and conservation to show that and

1012
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: hopefully carve out a larger piece of the pie for

1013
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: people who think this way, because we feel that they're

1014
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: not accurately being represented in you know, mainstream publications and

1015
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: and things like that. And and maybe through a trickle

1016
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: down effect that the hunting industry or even the mainstream

1017
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: media will see what we're doing and say, hey, you

1018
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: know what, that's that's honorable and that's virtuous, and we

1019
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 1: think that that deserves um for more people to know

1020
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: about it, or more people should order the magazine, or

1021
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: maybe I'll submit a story even if they're not a hunter.

1022
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 1: And so you know, moving forward, we're gonna be including

1023
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 1: stories from non hunters, non hunting perspectives, and of course

1024
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: the lens there is. It needs to be constructive. You

1025
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: know that that we're two as Charles said, bridge build

1026
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: bridges and bridge the gaps and hopefully reduce conflict. But

1027
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: I think that when it comes down to it, we're

1028
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: hoping to sort of recruit people and maybe recruits not

1029
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,919
Speaker 1: the right word to inspire or enable people who are

1030
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: conservation minded in the sense of, you know, trying to

1031
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: be act an active participant in the you know, in

1032
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: the management the effective management of landscape or the preservation

1033
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: of our natural resources and protection of habitats and UH

1034
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: and having a larger role in that UM and and

1035
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: just being respectful you know, ethical hunters. Do you add anything, Charles, Yeah,

1036
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: I mean I think just the kind of backpedal here

1037
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: for a can the the topic of Africa and the

1038
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: topic of special and UH and trophy the film and

1039
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:14,760
Speaker 1: how that might um inspire influence some of the ways

1040
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: that hunting is perceived or public plants are managed share

1041
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: in the US. You know, one thing I'd add that

1042
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: I think kind of devetails into the into your next

1043
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: question about the kind of modern huntsman. Who that person is?

1044
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: You know, I always like to bring this up, and

1045
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: we talk about Africa and town and I are constantly

1046
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: talking about Africa because it's not something I know a

1047
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: lot about. But what I do know is that Africa

1048
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: is complex, that each country in Africa has a different

1049
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: suite of rules, of regulations, of successes and failures, of

1050
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: the political climates, of economic climates. There are all these

1051
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: things that are affecting the way wildlife and lands and

1052
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: ecosystems are managed. Even down to the regional scale, Like

1053
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: each you look at one country, there's going to be

1054
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: areas of success in areas of failure within that country.

1055
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: So I think the really unfortunate, uh kind of phenomena

1056
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 1: that seems to be quite pervasive in the world in

1057
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: America as well, is that we are spoon fed these

1058
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: gross over generalizations, many of which are negative. You know,

1059
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: like read the front page of whatever your local newspaper

1060
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: is and most of the stories are negative. Most of them, um,

1061
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: you know, are picking something that triggers a response. You know,

1062
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: they want to feed you the seven word byline that

1063
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: makes your heart race or makes you want to cry,

1064
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: or whatever makes you scared. I mean, that's the currency

1065
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: of media, and for hunting, it's been destructive, you know,

1066
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: Like these films are made to piss people off. These

1067
00:58:55,480 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: films are made to evoke a response, not generally to say,

1068
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, the problems a little bit or the situation,

1069
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: the landscape a little bit more complicated than we than

1070
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: we really understand. And this is the best that we

1071
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: understand about this one aspect of this broader narrative. And

1072
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: I think that is what we are also trying to

1073
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: point out is that these stories. Hunting is complicated. Wolves

1074
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: exist in North America, but the reality of wolves is

1075
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: different in BC compared to Idaho. You know, like wolves.

1076
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: There are some wolves in California, but there their whole situation,

1077
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: the political climate associated with them, their ecological impact is

1078
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: very different than wolves and Yellowstone. And wolves and Yellowstone

1079
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: are incredibly different than wolves twenty miles outside of Yellowstone.

1080
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 1: So we are we society The public is constantly reminded

1081
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: falsely that because we understand what happened to wolves and Yellowstone,

1082
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: we understand wolves in general. And that is really unfortunate

1083
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: because the world is complicated. Hunting is complex. There are

1084
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 1: hunters that are amazing people that we at modern huntsmen

1085
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: will elevate and lift up and celebrate and shina light on.

1086
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: But there are also people who we won't because they

1087
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: have a lot of room, you know, to improve, just

1088
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: like politicians, just like your local banker, just like a

1089
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: used car salesman. You know, like any sect of society

1090
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: has people who are stellar humans and people who you know,

1091
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: have some room to improve. And and we're all, you know,

1092
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: we all faults in all places to improve. Nobody's perfect.

1093
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: But to say all hunters are good or all hunters

1094
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: are bad is misleading. To say all politicians are good

1095
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: or bad is misleading. And to say Africa is just one, um,

1096
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, homogeneous place, or hunting in North America is

1097
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: just one homogeneous uh kind of landscape bus misleading. And

1098
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: I think that's something that we should continue to inject

1099
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: into these conversations because somebody will ask Tyler or me

1100
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 1: or whoever about hunting in Africa, and they probably think

1101
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: they have their head pretty well wrapped around the question,

1102
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, trophy hunting is bad. Well, like Tyler said,

1103
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: there's examples where trophy huntings actually pretty benign and good.

1104
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: But there's also examples of troviy hunting that's probably pretty

1105
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: you know, she could he could use some improvement, or

1106
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: is maybe not as sensitive whereas actually maybe not you know,

1107
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: ecologically beneficial. Um. And that's the kind of minutia that

1108
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: I think that we want to point out. And and

1109
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: while pointing that out, say like, here are examples of

1110
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: this in a wonderful light that we can all draw

1111
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: inspiration from and that we hope the next generation of

1112
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: hunters embodies. And I think that, in my opinion, is

1113
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 1: the modern huntsman. It's somebody who realizes that if you

1114
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: want to harvest a big elk, there needs to be

1115
01:01:56,200 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: a healthy watershed with healthy soil and healthy the fire

1116
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: regime and a healthy invertebrate community. And these animals that

1117
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: we pursue are are directly a reflection of healthy ecosystems.

1118
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: So if you're big on you know, elk, for example,

1119
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: you know your best friends should be the guy who's

1120
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: studying the aspen in the Red Paring corridor. And we

1121
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: need to realize that all of these things are connected

1122
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: and that there's a lot of things we don't know.

1123
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I love about ecology and science

1124
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: is that science exists under the understanding that we don't

1125
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: know everything, and that science is always improving, and that

1126
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: when we say something in the scientific world, we say

1127
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: it with an understanding, but there is a a great

1128
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: possibility that we're wrong or that we don't know everything.

1129
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: And I think with hunting and modern huntsmen, we want

1130
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: to point out these complexities and point out rooms for growth.

1131
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 1: And also, you know, we're not in the business of

1132
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: saying like every person is the best that there ever

1133
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: could be in the hunting world, like We're here to

1134
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: celebrate the people that we should all look up to. UM.

1135
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: And I think that should go with you know, any

1136
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: of the topics, whether like I said, it's Africa or

1137
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: trophy hunting or whatever. There's there's great examples and there's

1138
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: examples that aren't so great, um, And there's always improvement

1139
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: to be made. Yeah, I think I think to add

1140
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: on to that. I'm sorry, Mark, I was just gonna

1141
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: add on real quick. I think to add on to

1142
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: that too. This is kind of the beauty of storytelling,

1143
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: right is it's not a presentation of what's right versus

1144
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: what's wrong, or here's how to live better or the

1145
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: top ten ways to improve your game or whatever. It's

1146
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 1: a presentation of something that goes far beyond what is fact,

1147
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: and it goes into the soul level of what you

1148
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 1: define truth to be. And so, you know, we are

1149
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: intentioned through everything we do, whether it be through media,

1150
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: whether it be through conversations, whether it be through um.

1151
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: You know, being being a part of of a topic

1152
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: of interest is simply to present a narrative that may

1153
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: or may not have been heard before, may or may

1154
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: not have been presented before, and that in doing so,

1155
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: we give the listener or the viewer or the reader

1156
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: the ability to interpret that in their own frame of reference,

1157
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, the thing that's

1158
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: most polarizing is somebody who believes that they are the

1159
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: supreme truth and they're presenting their supreme truth as fact.

1160
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: And we know that, you know, we can do without

1161
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 1: much of the polarizing media outlets in America and go

1162
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 1: towards something that's less sensationalized and more normalized. And when

1163
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: you start to normalize a conversation, allow people to make

1164
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 1: their own decisions and to see facts and figures, but

1165
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: also see somebody's heart and soul behind it. It gives

1166
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: you the opportunity to actually feel something and be convicted

1167
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 1: by it, as opposed to having to feel like you

1168
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: know you are on the outside if you don't participate

1169
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 1: in this, or you're wrong if you don't, or you're

1170
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: right if you don't. But instead and give them a

1171
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: reason to feel and to believe in something. Yeah, I'm

1172
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 1: glad you brought that up to I think I think

1173
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: that is so important to look at this um, look

1174
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 1: at a lot of these issues we've been talking about,

1175
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 1: and not in a polarizing kind of way, but in uh,

1176
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: and let's let's have a dialogue kind of way. Let's

1177
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: be inclusive, let's better understand each other, let's look at

1178
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: the complexities and the nuance here. Um and and to

1179
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: your earlier points, so much of what's going on in

1180
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 1: the larger world could um maybe improved a little bit

1181
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: if we just all got a little bit better at

1182
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: doing that. Um. But another thing, I want to to

1183
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 1: make sure he is known. And I might be speaking

1184
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: for you guys here a little bit, but I think

1185
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 1: it's important to note that, you know, even if you

1186
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: do enjoy you know, the traditional hunting media and hunting

1187
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: TV shows, and you like the hunting magazines, and you know,

1188
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: I watch in and read and participate in a lot

1189
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 1: of that stuff myself too, there's nothing wrong with enjoying

1190
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: some of that stuff but then also agreeing with some

1191
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 1: of the ideas that are being presented by you guys

1192
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 1: and modern huntsmen. I don't think it's an either or.

1193
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: I think it's uh. I think it's hey, here's some

1194
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: different things we can take in this aspect. Here's some

1195
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: things to think about on that side of things. I think,

1196
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, we're all part of this community. I think

1197
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 1: what you guys are doing a really nice job of

1198
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: is though, is is shining a light on certain aspects

1199
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: of things and saying, hey, let's have a conversation around this.

1200
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: Is this the best way to present things? Is there

1201
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: are there some different ways that we can talk about this, UM,

1202
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: And I think that is a powerful thing. And I

1203
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 1: would want to make sure that someone who you know,

1204
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to be turned off by these

1205
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: ideas because they feel like they don't fit into this

1206
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 1: little narrow box. UM. Even if you come from southern

1207
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: Michigan and love watching your white tail freaks devid, that's okay,

1208
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that. UM. You can also you know,

1209
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:55,600
Speaker 1: be interested and intrigued and curious about, you know, learning

1210
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:57,479
Speaker 1: about some of these different ways of looking at hunting

1211
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:00,040
Speaker 1: or different ways to talk about hunting or UM. I

1212
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 1: think we share a lot of the same common core

1213
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: beliefs and virtues. We appreciate many of the same things. UM.

1214
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: I think it just comes down to how we then

1215
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: communicate those things and and sometimes just take a second

1216
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 1: to think about these things. And what I like about

1217
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:17,919
Speaker 1: what you guys are doing is the fact that you're

1218
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 1: giving you're putting this, um, this platform out there, that

1219
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: that presents an opportunity to see some different ways of

1220
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: thinking through these things that I think is valuable. Um.

1221
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 1: So that's that's a good thing, I think for the

1222
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: for the future of hunting, because if we're all just

1223
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 1: talking the same language all all the time and we're

1224
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: stuck on that echo chamber, we never have that room

1225
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: or that incentive to grow or evolve. And I think, um,

1226
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 1: as far as I see it, we're gonna have to

1227
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 1: continue to evolve if we want to keep wildlife and

1228
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 1: wild places and hunting a part of the future in

1229
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 1: this this country, this world. Right. Yeah. Absolutely, And I

1230
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 1: think to to your point of you know, I don't

1231
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, because you know, in

1232
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 1: no way are we saying that, you know, other media

1233
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 1: or magazines are irrelevant. It's more of that we've felt

1234
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: that people that aren't being represented in those shows or

1235
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: in those magazines that, um, we're trying to give a voice.

1236
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: And in a lot of situations, um, you know, with

1237
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 1: the story, we're trying to focus it more on rather

1238
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 1: than the the end result, right of the trophy or

1239
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 1: the buck or whatever, more about the individual experience along

1240
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: the way, which is what you mentioned in terms of

1241
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: context and in the scenario and how much work went

1242
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: into that, um and and where you know, the main

1243
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: street you know, the other magazines, and those are hyper

1244
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 1: focused on on a specific demographic, right, people who are

1245
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: more interested in ballistics or you know, aero performance or um,

1246
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, white tail freaks or whatever that may be.

1247
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 1: And that's that media is intended for those types of

1248
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: people who are very interested in that specific type of information.

1249
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 1: Our product is much more focused on an outward facing message, right.

1250
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: We are trying to help bridge the gap between you know,

1251
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 1: the two communities. And you know, not everyone's gonna want

1252
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: to have difficult conversations. And and you know, there may

1253
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: be some people who hear what we're saying they're like, oh,

1254
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: that's cool, you know, good luck with that. Um. You know,

1255
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 1: I I'm not necessarily gonna participate, but I respect what

1256
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 1: you're doing kind of thing. And that's that's fine. You know,

1257
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 1: we're just trying to, you know, make make access to

1258
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 1: the hunting world at least a little easier for a

1259
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 1: non hunter, and we're just trying to do it in

1260
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: a different tone. That's a little more approachable. Um, that

1261
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: isn't so uh specific. I mean, for instance, the Journal

1262
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: of Mountain Hunting. They produce an amazing magazine, but it's

1263
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 1: so specific because it's like very very hardcore training technical

1264
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 1: mountain hunting that I wish I could do, but I'm

1265
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:47,639
Speaker 1: nowhere near the shape to be able to do something

1266
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 1: like that. And that's aspirational for me, but that may

1267
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 1: not be necessarily relevant for me reading I may not

1268
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: understand it or I may not get it because that

1269
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 1: just doesn't necessarily suit my lifestyle at this moment. And

1270
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: and so I think that you know, it's important to

1271
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: make that distinction that there's um, it's all part of

1272
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 1: the same mission here. We're all moving in the same direction.

1273
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,639
Speaker 1: We're just trying to take a little a little different

1274
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: of a tone in ours. Yeah, So speaking of the

1275
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: fact that your your project here is it's a little

1276
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: more outward facing, it's a little bit more about helping

1277
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: present hunting to two new people in a way that's

1278
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: a little bit more approachable for many for many folks.

1279
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 1: So I'm curious than given that UM lens that you

1280
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 1: guys have been looking at hunting through and through probably

1281
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: a lot of the conversations you've had with people that

1282
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: have been curious about hunting maybe but having delved into

1283
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 1: it yet. I'm curious if you can give us back

1284
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 1: to traditional media. Can you give us a how to,

1285
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 1: a quick like one, two, three, of something that we

1286
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: hunters can be thinking about, maybe a couple different ways

1287
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: we can do a better job of connecting with new

1288
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: hunters or communicating about what we're doing to new hunters. Um,

1289
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: if we want to have some of these difficult conversations,

1290
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: or if we want to bring someone in the fold,

1291
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 1: do you guys have a couple pieces of advice based

1292
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,599
Speaker 1: on your experience that we could take. Yeah, I've got

1293
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 1: a quick one, and then I'll let Charles Treentman because

1294
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's got different ones, which is great because

1295
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 1: we have a variety of perspective. Um. You know. For me,

1296
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 1: I think that what's been really well received in context

1297
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 1: of um of non hunters and even people like vegans

1298
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 1: who are against it for what they perceived to be

1299
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 1: moral reasons against a big beef industry or or a

1300
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 1: poultry industry. And that's the context of food, right, hunting

1301
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: for food or eating what you kill. And so I

1302
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 1: think that that's something that a lot of us who

1303
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 1: do that take for granted and and how people uh

1304
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: don't even consider that that's a possibility for them, that

1305
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: you can go out and harvest your own food. And

1306
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 1: so I think that that's something we're really trying to

1307
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 1: focus on because, um, you know, even even you know shows,

1308
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 1: cooking shows or or you know, things like Chef's Table,

1309
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 1: people accept the context of hunting when it's viewed through

1310
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 1: the lens of cuisine. And so that's something thing that

1311
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 1: I you know, I've made sure that I've communicated in

1312
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: some of my conversations possibly in a difficult topics or

1313
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: things like that, is is that connection to food right?

1314
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 1: And I think that, um, you know, beyond that, it's

1315
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 1: a lot of times people get asked why do you hunt?

1316
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 1: And that's a hard question to answer, but I think

1317
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,760
Speaker 1: that that's an important question to ask yourself and whether

1318
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 1: or not you need to justify yourself to somebody. I

1319
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 1: don't necessarily know if you need to, but I think

1320
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 1: that it's important to look inward and really kind of

1321
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 1: ask ourselves why we do that. Why is it important?

1322
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: Is it an instinct? Well, is that the only reason

1323
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:38,759
Speaker 1: we do it? Surely it's more than that. And so

1324
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: we're trying. We're attempting to be able to communicate a

1325
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 1: variety of those reasons why people hunt, and ideally we're

1326
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 1: focusing on the ones that we feel to be are

1327
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,759
Speaker 1: a little more exemplary or you know, adhering to virtues

1328
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: to that. You know, words and and images are the

1329
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,040
Speaker 1: things that stick with people, must you know what. We

1330
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: know this to be intrinsically true. And I think that

1331
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:07,720
Speaker 1: we've almost bastardized Instagram, uh in a sense of or

1332
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 1: we've we've bastardized imagery because of Instagram and because of

1333
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: photo sharing technology that we've almost I think I think

1334
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: Charles put it so in such a good light, um,

1335
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: and I want to frame it differently that you know, Instagram,

1336
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 1: every time you put something out on social media, you're

1337
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 1: casting a vote for something. Not only not only are you,

1338
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 1: um presenting a topic that people can have commentary on,

1339
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 1: but you're also casting a vote. And because of the

1340
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:43,040
Speaker 1: normalization of being able to just you know, cast your

1341
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 1: vote through imagery and share that with the world, and

1342
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 1: now you have a public opinion towards something and people

1343
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 1: have access to that, it means a lot and I

1344
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 1: think that we discount it severely, you know, because it's

1345
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 1: it's our it's our channel, it's our page. We should

1346
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: be able to do whatever you want. And that's true,

1347
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: it's absolutely correct. But you now have given access to

1348
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 1: people to be able to content and also in conversation

1349
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,879
Speaker 1: or um in in sharing you know, maybe an experience

1350
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 1: that you had hunting on social media through the written

1351
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 1: word or spoken word, it matters. You know, people are

1352
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 1: listening to that all the time. And so that's a

1353
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:21,759
Speaker 1: huge point for me that that as coming from somebody

1354
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 1: who was formerly not in this space, felt excluded in

1355
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,839
Speaker 1: intimidated by this industry. One of my points of contention

1356
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 1: was I was afraid to say to people that I

1357
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 1: was a non hunter. I was afraid to talk to

1358
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 1: hunters and say that I wasn't a hunter because I

1359
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 1: felt like I'd be pushed out of the club. And

1360
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 1: to be able to have a tone of voice that

1361
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 1: is more inviting, that speaks to um. You know, this

1362
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 1: is not us versus you, This is not you can't

1363
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: come into our club, but instead, this is something that

1364
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 1: we want you to be a part of. I want

1365
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: to share this experience with you, whether it's I want

1366
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 1: to take you in the field, or whether it's I

1367
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 1: want to show you some pictures of my last time

1368
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of, you know, x YZ, or whatever

1369
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 1: animal harvested, or whether it's um you know, I want

1370
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: to show you high prepared this this dish. That's something

1371
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: that we have the opportunity to not just share, but

1372
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 1: get people excited and feel included about. So I think

1373
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: that's one thing that ultimately, you know, in a mass

1374
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 1: media setting, all of us collectively are the voice of hunting.

1375
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to take that lightly. Modern

1376
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 1: huntsman is not going to change the industry, you know,

1377
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 1: Barretta and Pilson and Sitka and brands and we are

1378
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 1: not going to change the industry. It's the people, right,

1379
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 1: It's all of us collectively. We're the ones who do this.

1380
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: And so if we can have a much more sensitive

1381
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 1: and thoughtful tone of voice and not change how we

1382
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 1: do things or the approach of of the actual hunt,

1383
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:57,880
Speaker 1: but how we communicated, I think that's the ultimate key

1384
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:02,599
Speaker 1: to being able to uh convicted and persuade that perception

1385
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 1: away from what the majority of non hunters perceived it

1386
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:08,479
Speaker 1: to be now into what the majority of hunters actually

1387
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 1: feel it to be Ye, would you anything, Charles, Yeah,

1388
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 1: I think you know two things that come to mind,

1389
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:18,880
Speaker 1: um when they think about qualities of of hunters and

1390
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:23,280
Speaker 1: that you know that I think I and by you know,

1391
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 1: through the collective lens, we think the next generation to

1392
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: benefit from. And I think about people like my friend

1393
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: Adam Floss, who's a celebrated bow hunter, one of my

1394
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:37,640
Speaker 1: best friends. Just a brilliant creative as well. But you know,

1395
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 1: go go walk around the mountains with somebody like him,

1396
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 1: and you are brought into this world where he's reading

1397
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 1: the wind and looking at tracks and reading this marketings

1398
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:56,720
Speaker 1: on the trees, and just he is painting, telling you

1399
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 1: this picture of an ecosystem through a hunt your's eyes,

1400
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:04,959
Speaker 1: somebody who's spent decades, you know, really studying the environment.

1401
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,599
Speaker 1: And for everybody out there's a hunter. You know, when

1402
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 1: you succeed and harvest something, when it goes from hunting

1403
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:17,680
Speaker 1: to harvesting, that that that bridge, that portal that you

1404
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:22,719
Speaker 1: go through, that hinges upon your ability to read the woods,

1405
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 1: to be a woodsman or you know, be a naturalist,

1406
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 1: or to be be fluent in your backyard, or the

1407
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 1: rhythms of the places you hunt, and that I think

1408
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 1: is something that's really exciting and something that's that's often overlooked.

1409
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:41,759
Speaker 1: You know, when you think about teaching your kid to hunt,

1410
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 1: or if you have kids, you take your kids hunting,

1411
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:47,680
Speaker 1: you're telling them about all the things that might predispose

1412
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:51,719
Speaker 1: them to a successful hunt. And those are the things

1413
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 1: that I'm sure you look in their eyes and you

1414
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 1: get so excited about seeing them loving the creek in

1415
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: the forest and you know, you know, making an owl

1416
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 1: call to stir up a turkey. You know, there's all

1417
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:08,559
Speaker 1: these things that are part of hunting that i are

1418
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: really beautiful and amazing inspiring, and that makes you a

1419
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 1: good hunter, but also make you a steward and make

1420
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 1: you somebody who's an advocate and somebody who who will

1421
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 1: speak up for those places, those wild ecosystems that don't

1422
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:24,479
Speaker 1: have a voice and need them now more than ever,

1423
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:28,679
Speaker 1: so I think, you know, and and that goes into food.

1424
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at, uh, you know, amount of

1425
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: an animal I harvested a few years ago, and some

1426
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:40,439
Speaker 1: of my favorite memories of that hunt have been the

1427
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 1: barbecues I've had, Like the other day, I hadn't we

1428
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:44,560
Speaker 1: just my fiance and moved into a new place, and

1429
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 1: we have friends over and we ate some of the

1430
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: elk that we harvested, and and that barbecue was so

1431
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 1: fun being able to share food. But you worked your

1432
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 1: butt off for through snowstorms and through you know, all

1433
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 1: these crazy events and and you know near opportunities, and

1434
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 1: then you get to sit down with your friends and

1435
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 1: family and share a meal, and with that meal comes

1436
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:14,000
Speaker 1: all this reverence and comes all this positive energy and excitement.

1437
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 1: I mean, those are the things that get us fired up, right,

1438
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:21,720
Speaker 1: Like the photo of the animal will always be something

1439
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,320
Speaker 1: to remember, but there's all the experiences that radiate and

1440
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:28,360
Speaker 1: orbit from that that really make us addicted and passionate

1441
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 1: about what we're doing. And I think that's such a

1442
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 1: beautiful element that I know, at modern huntsman, we want

1443
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:37,360
Speaker 1: to celebrate and like Howler said, in terms of pr

1444
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:40,680
Speaker 1: and storytelling, cuisine is a wonderful vehicle to do that.

1445
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: And it's also something that everybody has in common. Everybody's

1446
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 1: got to eat, and everybody loves knowing a little bit

1447
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:50,680
Speaker 1: about their food, and hunting gives us a great opportunity

1448
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: to talk about that. Yeah, something you said a couple

1449
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 1: of times there. Charles brings me to another question that

1450
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 1: I that I often have been asking people, and it

1451
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 1: comes it kind of fits in very nicely with with

1452
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: a lot of what we've been talking about, that being

1453
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:08,840
Speaker 1: the importance of our words. And I'm curious. You mentioned

1454
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: a couple of times that you harvested an animal, and

1455
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:16,120
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really interested in people's perspective on this word,

1456
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:18,800
Speaker 1: using the word that they harvest an animal or they

1457
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 1: killed an animal. There's there's some people that say that

1458
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,240
Speaker 1: when you say the word kill, you killed an animal.

1459
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 1: That's too aggressive, that's too harsh, that's going to turn

1460
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: people off, that's going to scare people away. Um, And

1461
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: so they say harvest. And then there's other people that

1462
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 1: say kill because no, that's the truth of what's happening,

1463
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:37,800
Speaker 1: that is the reality of what's happening here. I'm going

1464
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:40,840
Speaker 1: to honor the truth and honor the animal by saying that.

1465
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: On the other hand, they feel that harvest. Then by

1466
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:47,599
Speaker 1: saying harvest, it's like you are framing wildlife as a

1467
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:51,480
Speaker 1: crop that you're just growing and taking, and that's disrespectful.

1468
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:53,720
Speaker 1: So those are these two different perspectives on those two

1469
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 1: words that I often hear, and I don't know where

1470
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,080
Speaker 1: I stand on it, but I'm really curious to hear

1471
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 1: different people's opinions on it. I'm your Charles. Is this

1472
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:03,800
Speaker 1: something you've you've thought about and you actively choose to

1473
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 1: use the word harvest for one of these reasons or

1474
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: something else or what are your thoughts on that? Yeah? Totally,

1475
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:12,840
Speaker 1: I mean I think about it is like the same

1476
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 1: analogous too. You can be driving and you can be speeding,

1477
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: but to speed you have to drive, right, So to kill,

1478
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 1: you can just kill something. It doesn't have to mean

1479
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:28,639
Speaker 1: you're harvesting it. But harvesting implies that there's that second step,

1480
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:32,719
Speaker 1: there's that something, there's that amendment to the initial function

1481
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:36,719
Speaker 1: of killing or in the in the analogy of driving, right,

1482
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,960
Speaker 1: like that's the first entry point. And you know you

1483
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 1: might be driving one day and run over a rabbit.

1484
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 1: You're not harvesting that rabbit, just killed the rabbit. Harvesting

1485
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,800
Speaker 1: a driver and incentives to do what you're doing. And

1486
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 1: I think harvest also, I think looks the reverence and

1487
01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 1: appreciation and understanding for that process. People talk about the

1488
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 1: second hunt. You know, you go bow hunting, you got

1489
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:08,280
Speaker 1: to find the animal and then there's the tremendous aout

1490
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 1: of work that comes with packing it out, you know,

1491
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 1: especially if you're hunting up in the mountains, like that's

1492
01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:17,599
Speaker 1: that's a huge part of the adventure. And you know,

1493
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 1: thinking about harvesting food, I mean, I grew up with

1494
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 1: vegetable gardens. For everyone out there, thing he's ever tried

1495
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 1: to grow strawberries. Like when you finally get your second

1496
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 1: year strawberry plants coming back in and you have sixty strawberries,

1497
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 1: each one means so much because you put all that

1498
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 1: effort into getting that little strawberry, but the slugs didn't

1499
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 1: get and you know, weren't picked off by a bird,

1500
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 1: and there's just that that extra bit of energy attached

1501
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 1: to it. And I think harvesting embodies all those extra adjectives,

1502
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 1: those extra extra elements that come from yes, the animal died,

1503
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:56,719
Speaker 1: but it's being harvested because or for me at least,

1504
01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, I'm pursuing these animals to eat and to

1505
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 1: share with signs and family. And I think there's a

1506
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 1: distinction there, right, Like some people kill things and telling

1507
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:11,040
Speaker 1: little harvest things, and I think harvest um for me

1508
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:15,840
Speaker 1: is the right word. That's a that's an interesting perspective

1509
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 1: and and one I hadn't thought about in that way.

1510
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 1: And and that that harvest to you connotates not just

1511
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: the act of the kill killing, but it's also then

1512
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:29,360
Speaker 1: the intention behind and how you're going to use it

1513
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: to eat, et cetera. That that's an interesting perspective on it.

1514
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 1: Tyler or Brad, Would you guys carried away in on

1515
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:39,679
Speaker 1: that at all? Yeah? I think it's also a matter

1516
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:42,600
Speaker 1: of context, right, you know, if we're all in a

1517
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: room full of hunters and you're not just worried about

1518
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: what people are thinking of what you're saying, you know,

1519
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:50,320
Speaker 1: you could in a casual conversation you may say you

1520
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:54,519
Speaker 1: killed it. But in in you know, the venture we're in,

1521
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:58,960
Speaker 1: which is trying to be diplomats of what we feel

1522
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 1: to be ethical hunting, which trying to do what we

1523
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 1: can to make sure that we minimize, you know, conflict.

1524
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 1: And I think that you're right the term killing, even

1525
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 1: though yes, that's what it is, um is one of

1526
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 1: those things where people might take that the wrong way

1527
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:19,439
Speaker 1: or or it might it might offend them. And you know,

1528
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 1: then comes the Agel question, do you need to worry

1529
01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:25,880
Speaker 1: about what other people think, and it goes back to

1530
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,599
Speaker 1: what we discussed earlier that in certain cases, Yeah, so

1531
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 1: you know, do you need to watch what you say

1532
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 1: all the time. I would advise it. It's not necessarily,

1533
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, going to be a game changer. But I

1534
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 1: think that what Charles is referring to is more of

1535
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 1: a matter of respect. And if you're if you're saying

1536
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 1: it out of habit or you're saying it out of like,

1537
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 1: oh well I've done it so many times so it

1538
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 1: doesn't really mean anything anymore, then that's one thing. But

1539
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 1: using a different word or or if you say the

1540
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:55,679
Speaker 1: word kill, you know, and there's a sense of remorse,

1541
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:58,120
Speaker 1: that's a different thing. But I think if if it's

1542
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:00,960
Speaker 1: more just like going through the motions and like, you know,

1543
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 1: I I killed four deer because I killed four every day,

1544
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 1: four deer every year, and it's not really exciting to

1545
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 1: me anymore, then I kind of that's where I would

1546
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 1: kind of see a problem in that. Um, you know,

1547
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 1: just de sense it desiation um. And so yeah, I

1548
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:18,280
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean I use it in different contexts

1549
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 1: or you know, you could say reap, you know, so uh,

1550
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:25,000
Speaker 1: either in ridge reaper, I mean, people use that term

1551
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:26,680
Speaker 1: as well. So I don't know. I think it's more

1552
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:30,040
Speaker 1: of just the matter the intention of you saying it

1553
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 1: in the audience. You're you know, saying it too. And

1554
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:36,680
Speaker 1: there's a certain luxury that most industries can afford, you know,

1555
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:40,679
Speaker 1: camping or hiking, biking, a lot of the outdoors culture

1556
01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:43,600
Speaker 1: there doesn't have to be as much sensitivity because the

1557
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:46,360
Speaker 1: stakes are lower, right, you don't you don't have the

1558
01:25:46,479 --> 01:25:52,640
Speaker 1: same effect. Um, while you do have enough on the surroundings,

1559
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,479
Speaker 1: you don't have as much effect when you are camping,

1560
01:25:55,560 --> 01:26:00,120
Speaker 1: high biking, Um, when you are taking the live of

1561
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:03,120
Speaker 1: an animal. We we don't live in the same luxury

1562
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: of being able to be as loose with our words.

1563
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:10,479
Speaker 1: So you know, to both Tyler and Charles point, it's

1564
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:13,960
Speaker 1: it's a matter of what is the terminology in the

1565
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 1: right context that's going to allude that there is a

1566
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:20,320
Speaker 1: point of respect that you have when you're around with

1567
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:24,000
Speaker 1: your buddies. Like Tyler said, absolutely, man, use the lingo

1568
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:26,479
Speaker 1: that makes the most sense, and that's gonna bring you

1569
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:30,000
Speaker 1: closer to your community. Um, because you all know and

1570
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:32,559
Speaker 1: you all get it. But when people don't get it

1571
01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 1: or there's some contention there it's worth considering to be

1572
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:41,759
Speaker 1: able to, you know, watch what you say, understand who's listening,

1573
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:44,800
Speaker 1: and ultimately that there is an impact that you're leaving

1574
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 1: behind with every word that you say. So, whatever the

1575
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 1: word may be that you choose to say, I hope

1576
01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 1: that it would be something that people understand what you're implying,

1577
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 1: not just what you're saying. Yeah, I think this comes

1578
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,559
Speaker 1: down to think what all three of you mentioned kind

1579
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 1: of I think relates to maybe what the moral of

1580
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 1: this entire podcast is, the moral of this story. I

1581
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:13,200
Speaker 1: feel like it's just being mindful, being thoughtful about what

1582
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:16,759
Speaker 1: we're doing, how we're doing it, how we're communicating about it. Um,

1583
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:19,760
Speaker 1: and the nuance there and UM, I think you guys

1584
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 1: all have really interesting points and perspectives on that one

1585
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 1: example there, that word there, to your point, Bread, it's

1586
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,360
Speaker 1: a heavy word. It's a heavy idea. What we're doing here,

1587
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 1: the stakes here are not trivial in any in any way.

1588
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 1: This isn't like shooting a basketball who what we're doing

1589
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 1: is is trying to take an animal's life, which is

1590
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:40,160
Speaker 1: inherently is serious of a thing is as there can be. UM.

1591
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:43,160
Speaker 1: So I think the way we think about and talk

1592
01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:48,400
Speaker 1: about these sayings should mirror that seriousness. Um, I've got

1593
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:52,759
Speaker 1: two final quick questions for you guys. The second question

1594
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:55,200
Speaker 1: I'll tell you is going to be that I'm interested

1595
01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 1: in what is coming down the line for modern huntsmen.

1596
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna you guys can be thinking the back

1597
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: of your mind about what we have to look forward

1598
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:05,200
Speaker 1: to with the next issue all that kind of stuff.

1599
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:07,840
Speaker 1: But before that, what I'm curious about is I would

1600
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 1: love you know, just based on hearing from you guys,

1601
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 1: and hearing and seeing your work in previous places, I

1602
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 1: think I'm guessing you've got some some quality taste in

1603
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:21,479
Speaker 1: media as far as books or films anything like that.

1604
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:23,559
Speaker 1: So so I'm curious if you have any books or

1605
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:28,000
Speaker 1: films or resources that you'd recommend to us to whether

1606
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:30,440
Speaker 1: it be related to hunting or the outdoors or conservation,

1607
01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 1: anything within this realm that we've been talking about that

1608
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 1: you'd recommend. Um. And I don't know, Charles, would you

1609
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:42,799
Speaker 1: want to start with with a couple of recommendations? Yeah? Absolutely. Um.

1610
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:49,960
Speaker 1: Two books that that I really enjoy are The Great

1611
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:53,719
Speaker 1: Animal Orchestra by Bernie Krauss, and it's a book about

1612
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:57,760
Speaker 1: the Ecology of Sound. And it's something that I know

1613
01:28:57,840 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 1: a lot of hunters are already thinking about because you know,

1614
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 1: out hunting, but it's this, it's this book that for

1615
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 1: me really changed the way I looked at ecosystems and

1616
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 1: looked at just the natural world. And Bernie Krause, he's

1617
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 1: got a great ted talk on it. Um, he's kind

1618
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:19,320
Speaker 1: of this uh, this ecology jedi who's who's got a

1619
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 1: lot figured out and he uh, he tells the story

1620
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 1: in a pretty unique way. So that's one book. And

1621
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:27,760
Speaker 1: then you know another book that's the really is just

1622
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:33,800
Speaker 1: like a timeless classic that was really really um galvanized

1623
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 1: my passion and interest in natural history and storytelling is

1624
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:41,479
Speaker 1: a sand County mac Elderly. It's kind of one of

1625
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:45,599
Speaker 1: the grandfathers and conservation um. And those those are two

1626
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 1: books that just uh yeah, that that are really really

1627
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 1: inspiring and well done. Um you know. Uh. In terms

1628
01:29:55,439 --> 01:30:00,280
Speaker 1: of films, I think one that I felt, which they

1629
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:02,120
Speaker 1: all plug because because I worked on it, but also

1630
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:05,680
Speaker 1: because it was a film that that really opened my

1631
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: eyes to complex narratives is a film called Island Earth.

1632
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 1: That's a film that was directed by Sarah Sutton, a

1633
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 1: great friend, one of the first people I worked for

1634
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:20,520
Speaker 1: after grad school, you know, diving into the creative world. Um.

1635
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:22,840
Speaker 1: He's a just a really talent that he's an Emmy

1636
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:28,160
Speaker 1: Award winner pro surfer, but also an amazing reporter and

1637
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 1: kind of objective journalists. And Island Earth is a film

1638
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:34,400
Speaker 1: you can find an iTunes, um, probably some other places,

1639
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:37,520
Speaker 1: but I do know it's on iTunes, and it explores

1640
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:42,720
Speaker 1: GMOs and kind of the landscape of genically modified organisms,

1641
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:47,000
Speaker 1: specifically plants. It kind of takes place in Hawaii, were

1642
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:48,680
Speaker 1: a lot of the big chemical companies, you know, the

1643
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 1: Dousand Monsantos do a lot of their their research. Um.

1644
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:54,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think it does a really good job

1645
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:59,400
Speaker 1: of painting a fair brushstroke across a really complicated topic,

1646
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:03,360
Speaker 1: kind of like hunting or politics or whatever. Um. So yeah,

1647
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:05,400
Speaker 1: that would be kind of my shameless plug for Islanders.

1648
01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 1: But it's it's a film that I think will definitely

1649
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:10,920
Speaker 1: open your eyes and kind of highlight those those complexities

1650
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:12,920
Speaker 1: and the fact that there's not one easy answer to

1651
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,080
Speaker 1: some of these bigger problems. Interesting, I have not seen that,

1652
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:18,479
Speaker 1: but luff to check it out and to your Sand

1653
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:22,880
Speaker 1: County Almanac recommendation I can't echo that enough. We've talked

1654
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:25,880
Speaker 1: about a lot un passed episodes, so hopefully if you

1655
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:29,680
Speaker 1: haven't yet, this is another reminder to check that one out.

1656
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 1: And it's funny you mentioned that I just got a

1657
01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:34,880
Speaker 1: tweet yesterday from someone. Um. They tweeted at me and

1658
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:38,760
Speaker 1: said that they went into Barnes Noble and went up

1659
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:41,120
Speaker 1: to the counter after hearing us talk about it, and

1660
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,840
Speaker 1: it asked for and asked if they had a Sand

1661
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,360
Speaker 1: County Almanac, and the lady or person whoever it was,

1662
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:49,280
Speaker 1: UM just got this really like huge smile on their

1663
01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:51,680
Speaker 1: face and like this quizzical look, and they're like, that

1664
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 1: is the weirdest thing because literally just moments before she

1665
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,679
Speaker 1: went and got the one lone copy of a Sand

1666
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:00,360
Speaker 1: County Almanac from out back and put on the shelf,

1667
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:02,240
Speaker 1: thinking how no one's gonna pick this up, and just

1668
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:06,599
Speaker 1: seconds later someone asked for it. So that, yeah, kind

1669
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 1: of kind of a strange, interesting circumstance. So it was

1670
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 1: it was meant to be UM that Eldo was going

1671
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:16,960
Speaker 1: to find his way to someone else's mind. UM. So, Tyler,

1672
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:21,280
Speaker 1: do you have any recommendations? I do, UM, So, I

1673
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:23,599
Speaker 1: unfortunately haven't been able to read as much the last

1674
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:27,080
Speaker 1: few months with travel and us trying to get things

1675
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 1: going forward. But I a couple of months ago I

1676
01:32:30,200 --> 01:32:33,200
Speaker 1: finished Roosevelt Trilogy there. You know, it's a three part

1677
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 1: book or three book series, a massive I think. The

1678
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:40,519
Speaker 1: first one was called The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt, the

1679
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:42,840
Speaker 1: second one was called Theodore Rex, and the last one's

1680
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:46,360
Speaker 1: Colonel Roosevelt. But the second one, in particular, Theodore Rex,

1681
01:32:46,439 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 1: was about his active presidency, and it really goes into

1682
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:54,000
Speaker 1: a little more detail about his views of conservation and

1683
01:32:54,040 --> 01:32:56,439
Speaker 1: how he came about them through touring around the United

1684
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:58,919
Speaker 1: States and seeing areas of what used to be wilderness

1685
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:02,679
Speaker 1: that were just being decimated it and he really felt

1686
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:04,080
Speaker 1: the need to try to make it stop. And so

1687
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:06,040
Speaker 1: it really kind of goes into that and how he

1688
01:33:06,680 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 1: put that into action legislative wise. And then you know,

1689
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:12,760
Speaker 1: after his presidency, some of the hunting so far as

1690
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:15,000
Speaker 1: he went on, and it was really interesting to me

1691
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:19,200
Speaker 1: to see that even back in you know, nineteen fourteen

1692
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:21,800
Speaker 1: or nineteen eighteen, whatever it was, that the people's people

1693
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:26,680
Speaker 1: were still giving crap about And you know, I had

1694
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:28,960
Speaker 1: no idea. I just assumed that back then hunting was

1695
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:31,439
Speaker 1: much more widely, and while it may be on a

1696
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,760
Speaker 1: larger scale, but there was still a general public in

1697
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:37,719
Speaker 1: sensus that questioned some of these you know, bigger game quests,

1698
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:40,439
Speaker 1: and that was really interesting to me, and UH it

1699
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:43,800
Speaker 1: definitely gave a little bit more perspective into his conservation

1700
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:46,360
Speaker 1: philosophy and how it sort of led us to where

1701
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:49,960
Speaker 1: we're at today. UM, So i'd highly recommend that. UM.

1702
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:53,720
Speaker 1: In terms of films, I don't have a specific film

1703
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:58,639
Speaker 1: that I have watched recently. Two of note, however, UM,

1704
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 1: Charles and I and Brad are working together to make

1705
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:06,760
Speaker 1: the Modern Huntsman Site be a pretty hefty resource for

1706
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 1: conservation films and hunting films and films that UH promote

1707
01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:15,519
Speaker 1: and discuss topics like Charles was talking about. And so

1708
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:18,559
Speaker 1: here in the next few months, we're gonna be releasing

1709
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:20,720
Speaker 1: a lot more of those on the site UM in

1710
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:23,559
Speaker 1: an effort to kind of expand the conversation and and

1711
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:26,520
Speaker 1: be able to showcase more work of directors and cinematographers

1712
01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:29,439
Speaker 1: and people who are just doing great things in the

1713
01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:31,920
Speaker 1: film world. Because currently, you know, to watch a lot

1714
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:34,479
Speaker 1: of these films, you gotta go to fifteen different YouTube channels.

1715
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:36,360
Speaker 1: You gotta go to film festival or you gotta follow

1716
01:34:36,360 --> 01:34:38,240
Speaker 1: the right person on Instagram. And so we want to

1717
01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:40,839
Speaker 1: try to be um, you know, sort of a collection

1718
01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 1: and a resource for for all that type of work.

1719
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:45,519
Speaker 1: So check back soon and hopefully we'll have a lot

1720
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:47,320
Speaker 1: more of those. In the film trail of it we

1721
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:51,840
Speaker 1: just posted last week, uh and I'll plug Charles. Here

1722
01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:56,920
Speaker 1: was his film that he uh produced with Max Lowe

1723
01:34:57,520 --> 01:35:04,160
Speaker 1: and UM forced yep, Forest Woodward uh Sky Migrations. UM.

1724
01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 1: We posted the trailer on our on our page, and

1725
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:13,240
Speaker 1: it is absolutely fantastic. UM. I would highly recommend nobody. Yeah,

1726
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:16,160
Speaker 1: it really is that we did not play in that,

1727
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:22,640
Speaker 1: but no, there there are a number, I mean a

1728
01:35:22,760 --> 01:35:26,480
Speaker 1: vast number of creatives in this space who are writers

1729
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:30,960
Speaker 1: or photographers or filmmakers, UM or you know, like like Charles,

1730
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:35,280
Speaker 1: who are you know, by trade an ecologists, but by

1731
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, value a storyteller and can apply They're learning

1732
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 1: into a way that people both you know, hunters non hunters.

1733
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:46,840
Speaker 1: I mean not to just get to general, but but

1734
01:35:46,920 --> 01:35:49,680
Speaker 1: that folks can digest and interpret the work and the

1735
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:53,280
Speaker 1: findings that they've come up with and really get inspired

1736
01:35:53,320 --> 01:36:00,360
Speaker 1: by it. Um. Charles is a ridiculous storyteller. I'll then

1737
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:05,720
Speaker 1: know you that six box are saying that Dad, thanks buddy. Yeah,

1738
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 1: and that to to echo what you recommended a second

1739
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:15,200
Speaker 1: ago there, Tyler to Theodore Roosevelt, Um, histories, you cannot

1740
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:17,760
Speaker 1: go wrong with learning more about what that guy did.

1741
01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:21,439
Speaker 1: He had his hands on so much of of what

1742
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:25,439
Speaker 1: we now have as as an amazing inheritance, whether it

1743
01:36:25,479 --> 01:36:28,720
Speaker 1: be the our public lands or wildlife populations and game

1744
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 1: laws that allow them to be sustainable, or the fair chase.

1745
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:34,720
Speaker 1: You know, the ethics and morals that we that we

1746
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,960
Speaker 1: have around how we pursue game. Um, he was involved

1747
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:39,800
Speaker 1: in so much of that stuff. And and I haven't

1748
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:43,559
Speaker 1: read Theodore Rex yet, but I have read many, including

1749
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:46,519
Speaker 1: on one I'd recommend The Wilderness Warrior, which it's a

1750
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,599
Speaker 1: heavy one. It's a tough one to get through if

1751
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 1: you're not like really devoted to wanting to know everything

1752
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:55,360
Speaker 1: about Theodore Roosevelt related to the wild, the wild environment

1753
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 1: and conservation. But if you are really interested in that,

1754
01:36:58,439 --> 01:37:01,360
Speaker 1: it goes so into debt of of everything he had

1755
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:03,920
Speaker 1: that he was involved with. And um, you'll walk away

1756
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:06,479
Speaker 1: from that book knowing a lot. Uh. And he'll appreciate

1757
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:08,720
Speaker 1: what he did a lot more. Another one that I'm

1758
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:11,400
Speaker 1: actually reading right now is called The Naturalist, which is

1759
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:15,479
Speaker 1: another look at Fiodoor Roosevelt from natural history standpoint, but

1760
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:19,920
Speaker 1: a little more focused on his experiences in nature and

1761
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:22,920
Speaker 1: his focus on understanding them from a natural history perspective,

1762
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:27,400
Speaker 1: from like a you know, how to observe, collect and

1763
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 1: even you know, send some these specimens to museums and

1764
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:32,479
Speaker 1: different things. But it really goes into detail about a

1765
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:35,160
Speaker 1: lot more of his outdoor experiences and ventures, and and

1766
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:37,240
Speaker 1: through those stories it does talk a little bit about

1767
01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:39,240
Speaker 1: some of the politics and some of the different things

1768
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:42,200
Speaker 1: he achieved in office. But um, that's an interesting perspective

1769
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:45,600
Speaker 1: to UM. And then if you're a hunter and you

1770
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:49,400
Speaker 1: want to just understand tr from a hunting perspective. His

1771
01:37:49,479 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 1: books that he wrote are really fantastic too. He was

1772
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:54,400
Speaker 1: a really really great writer, not him, He was great

1773
01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:57,160
Speaker 1: at so many things, UM, But The Wilderness Hunter is

1774
01:37:57,200 --> 01:37:59,639
Speaker 1: a great one. And UM, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman,

1775
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:03,919
Speaker 1: I think, is another uh that that are great, really compelling,

1776
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:06,800
Speaker 1: interesting stories that he tells. UM that really puts you

1777
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:10,400
Speaker 1: right back there in western North Dakota. And four and

1778
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:14,040
Speaker 1: and and understand what that was like. Um So those

1779
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:19,400
Speaker 1: are all additional recommendations that throw out there. So, um well,

1780
01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:22,960
Speaker 1: just to add to that topic. I'm not sure if

1781
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:24,720
Speaker 1: you actually got to read volume one up on Her

1782
01:38:24,760 --> 01:38:27,840
Speaker 1: Huntsman yet. But we have the added benefit of having

1783
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:32,280
Speaker 1: the guidance of one Simon Roosevelt, who's actually TR's great

1784
01:38:32,320 --> 01:38:35,040
Speaker 1: great grandson. Um I met him a few years ago

1785
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 1: and sort of in the beginning stages of this venture,

1786
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:41,439
Speaker 1: and um, he you know, at the right time. I

1787
01:38:41,439 --> 01:38:43,760
Speaker 1: asked if he would want to help advise us, and

1788
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:45,280
Speaker 1: he said, I'll do you want better, I'd I'd like

1789
01:38:45,320 --> 01:38:48,280
Speaker 1: to not only advise, but you know, be be a contributor.

1790
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 1: So we have him as a columnist, and he's definitely

1791
01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:54,320
Speaker 1: having a major hand and helping us guide helping guide

1792
01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 1: us in the in the right direction and and sort

1793
01:38:56,040 --> 01:38:58,160
Speaker 1: of adhering to some of those principles and but then

1794
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:00,920
Speaker 1: sort of modernizing them where they need to be modernized.

1795
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:03,599
Speaker 1: And so you know, he's definitely somebody who's who's had

1796
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 1: a very large behind the scenes role doing so it's

1797
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:11,160
Speaker 1: an honor for sure. I did see that and I

1798
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:13,439
Speaker 1: thought that was that was very cool. So that's A.

1799
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 1: That's a perfect segue then too. My next question, which

1800
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:18,240
Speaker 1: is what should we be looking forward to in the

1801
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:21,519
Speaker 1: next issue and the future and where can people find

1802
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:23,080
Speaker 1: all this stuff? I guess and I don't know if Tyler,

1803
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:24,360
Speaker 1: if you want to take the first step of that

1804
01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:29,160
Speaker 1: or anyone else. Sure, So I think that, UM, you know,

1805
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:32,320
Speaker 1: right now we're really trying, we're moving trying to move

1806
01:39:32,400 --> 01:39:34,920
Speaker 1: more towards a subscription model. UM. We're releasing two a year.

1807
01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:37,920
Speaker 1: We're hoping two thousand nineteen to release three a year. UM.

1808
01:39:37,960 --> 01:39:40,439
Speaker 1: But right now we're moving into volume two, which we're

1809
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:43,400
Speaker 1: hoping to release, um, you know, in the fall, probably

1810
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:47,200
Speaker 1: in September October area somewhere in there, depending on how

1811
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:49,360
Speaker 1: hard of a time Charles and I have wrangling all

1812
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:52,519
Speaker 1: these contributors. UM. But that is going to be themed

1813
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:56,160
Speaker 1: around public lands, and UM, I think it's a very

1814
01:39:56,200 --> 01:40:00,879
Speaker 1: important issue right now to discuss on very on several levels. UM.

1815
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:04,240
Speaker 1: But we also expand expanding a little more into the

1816
01:40:04,240 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 1: international arena. So we had a lot of feedback from

1817
01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, people who ordered the magazine said, hey, are

1818
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:11,360
Speaker 1: you gonna do stories besides the United States? And the

1819
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:14,040
Speaker 1: answer to that is yes, UM, We're gonna start to

1820
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:17,280
Speaker 1: scale that up a little bit in the next issue. Um,

1821
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 1: but in the context of public land, because we are

1822
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:25,320
Speaker 1: blessed with, you know, a vast area of publicly the

1823
01:40:25,400 --> 01:40:28,000
Speaker 1: United States that most hardly anywhere else in the world has.

1824
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:30,240
Speaker 1: And so what are the situations like in other parts

1825
01:40:30,280 --> 01:40:32,920
Speaker 1: of the world where that doesn't exist? What are the pros,

1826
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:34,960
Speaker 1: what are the cons you know, what what can we

1827
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:37,720
Speaker 1: take away from that as Americans with with this inheritance

1828
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:40,320
Speaker 1: of a wealth of lands? Uh? And then what in

1829
01:40:40,479 --> 01:40:45,280
Speaker 1: what issues current issues, whether they're political or legislative or um, local,

1830
01:40:45,720 --> 01:40:48,360
Speaker 1: are are imperative right now? And what do we need

1831
01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:50,960
Speaker 1: to know about them? And then what if anything can

1832
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:53,240
Speaker 1: we do about them? So you know, not only are

1833
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:56,479
Speaker 1: we trying to present topics, but we wherever possible, we

1834
01:40:56,520 --> 01:40:59,559
Speaker 1: want to present sort of some action items on how

1835
01:40:59,560 --> 01:41:03,519
Speaker 1: people to be involved or you know, improve the situation

1836
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:06,000
Speaker 1: in some way or another. Would you guys add anything else,

1837
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:15,000
Speaker 1: Charles or Bread that's a clear no, thank it's teller. Well, Charles,

1838
01:41:15,080 --> 01:41:17,880
Speaker 1: I think you know and Charles is you know your

1839
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:21,360
Speaker 1: your background is a little more related to the ecology

1840
01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:24,040
Speaker 1: side and helping us bridge the gap with as you

1841
01:41:24,080 --> 01:41:26,280
Speaker 1: said across the aisle, and so maybe talk a little

1842
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:31,120
Speaker 1: bit about our strategy there. Yeah, I think, you know,

1843
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:34,880
Speaker 1: one of the um one of the mini drivers that

1844
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:38,920
Speaker 1: I think are kind of shaping issue too for us

1845
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:44,519
Speaker 1: is thinking about storytellers and kind of staples in the

1846
01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:51,439
Speaker 1: hunting community that will further our ability to build bridges.

1847
01:41:51,680 --> 01:41:53,439
Speaker 1: And one of the things that we're gonna do is

1848
01:41:53,560 --> 01:41:56,720
Speaker 1: is obviously, you know, be connecting and working with some

1849
01:41:56,840 --> 01:42:00,240
Speaker 1: of these UM household names and the hunting and street

1850
01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:02,000
Speaker 1: because they have so much to share, They have so

1851
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:06,519
Speaker 1: much history with public lands, they have so many, um

1852
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:10,679
Speaker 1: you know, rich and smart perspectives that that will add

1853
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:12,960
Speaker 1: a lot to the broader narratives. But we also want

1854
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:17,800
Speaker 1: to include voices. We also will include voices and stories

1855
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:21,240
Speaker 1: of people who have a hand and a foot in

1856
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:25,320
Speaker 1: kind of different worlds, whether it's the confluence of outer

1857
01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:29,600
Speaker 1: recreation and hunting, or even surf culture and hunting, or

1858
01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:33,719
Speaker 1: food culture and hunting. UM and we want to tell

1859
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:37,599
Speaker 1: stories that bring us back to the essence of modern

1860
01:42:37,680 --> 01:42:39,799
Speaker 1: huntsmen and bring us back to the essence of issue

1861
01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:42,920
Speaker 1: to public lands. But we also want to point out

1862
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:46,840
Speaker 1: and really celebrate the diversity of people who all have

1863
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:51,120
Speaker 1: a stake in public lands and who you know have

1864
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:54,599
Speaker 1: hunting as this kind of common thread and hunting, as

1865
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:58,960
Speaker 1: we've talked about on this podcast, is this pretty dynamic

1866
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:06,440
Speaker 1: um you know, uh, activity, mindset, you know, approach and

1867
01:43:06,439 --> 01:43:09,400
Speaker 1: and we aim to to paint it and you know

1868
01:43:09,479 --> 01:43:12,920
Speaker 1: in an diversible light as it is. Um. So I'm

1869
01:43:12,920 --> 01:43:15,800
Speaker 1: really excited to kind of bring some maybe not atypical,

1870
01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:20,080
Speaker 1: but some just kind of some different voices to the

1871
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:23,360
Speaker 1: table that'll that will make the whole issue that much

1872
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:28,800
Speaker 1: more rich and holistic. Well, uh, that sounds it sounds

1873
01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:31,200
Speaker 1: like based off of what both of you share, that

1874
01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:34,360
Speaker 1: we've got a lot to look forward to with issue too.

1875
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:37,639
Speaker 1: I can attest to the fact I have the first

1876
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:40,040
Speaker 1: value here in my hands. It is a beautiful piece

1877
01:43:40,040 --> 01:43:43,439
Speaker 1: of work you guys, really just just the physical nature

1878
01:43:43,479 --> 01:43:45,920
Speaker 1: of it itself is beautiful. But then also the content

1879
01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:47,840
Speaker 1: I think you guys did a great job of of

1880
01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:52,760
Speaker 1: curating both thoughtful stories and articles and beautiful photography. I mean,

1881
01:43:52,840 --> 01:43:57,240
Speaker 1: it is definitely a um, I don't know, it's a

1882
01:43:57,240 --> 01:44:00,080
Speaker 1: pleasure to behold. It is something that really is that

1883
01:44:00,280 --> 01:44:05,160
Speaker 1: really well be done piece of media related to what

1884
01:44:05,200 --> 01:44:09,240
Speaker 1: we all love so much, which is hunting and garnering

1885
01:44:09,280 --> 01:44:11,840
Speaker 1: our food from wild places. So I'm glad that you

1886
01:44:11,880 --> 01:44:15,200
Speaker 1: guys are doing this, that you're sharing a different way

1887
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:19,160
Speaker 1: to think about and communicate and um interact with hunting.

1888
01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:22,800
Speaker 1: I think it's it's needed, it's worthwhile, and uh, I've

1889
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:24,479
Speaker 1: been enjoying it. So I'm looking forward what you guys

1890
01:44:24,520 --> 01:44:28,000
Speaker 1: have up next and bread. If people want to pick

1891
01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 1: up a copy of volume one, or if they want

1892
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:32,200
Speaker 1: to subscribe for future issues, or if they want to

1893
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:34,720
Speaker 1: follow what you guys are doing online, where can they

1894
01:44:34,720 --> 01:44:37,559
Speaker 1: do all this stuff? Yep, you can go to our

1895
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:42,160
Speaker 1: website at Modern Huntsman dot co CEO and to subscribe

1896
01:44:42,240 --> 01:44:43,920
Speaker 1: you can either just click on a little button right

1897
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:47,160
Speaker 1: there in the center or it's modern husband dot co

1898
01:44:47,320 --> 01:44:51,479
Speaker 1: slash subscribe and uh, as always, people can check us

1899
01:44:51,479 --> 01:44:55,559
Speaker 1: out on Instagram at modern Huntsman um or or on

1900
01:44:55,560 --> 01:44:58,840
Speaker 1: our Facebook page terrific. Well we will link to all

1901
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:02,559
Speaker 1: that stuff and UM, I really enjoyed this conversation guys,

1902
01:45:02,640 --> 01:45:04,880
Speaker 1: thank you for for taking the time to talk about

1903
01:45:04,880 --> 01:45:10,200
Speaker 1: this stuff. Thanks, thank you, and that will do it.

1904
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:13,760
Speaker 1: Quick reminder if you haven't yet, we would love it

1905
01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:16,320
Speaker 1: if you could leave a rating or review on iTunes.

1906
01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:18,479
Speaker 1: It would be amazing if you could subscribe to this

1907
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:21,920
Speaker 1: podcast there as well, and subscribe to the Wired Hunt

1908
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:25,720
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. Lots coming up there. I just published my

1909
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:30,360
Speaker 1: first piece of content documenting my two thousand seventeen hunting season,

1910
01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:33,920
Speaker 1: talking through the first hunt of the year, and later

1911
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:35,600
Speaker 1: this week I'll have a new video coming out that

1912
01:45:35,640 --> 01:45:38,400
Speaker 1: talks about my plan and what happened there in late

1913
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:40,920
Speaker 1: October when I went for my next strike after this

1914
01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:44,360
Speaker 1: deer called holy Field, So that might be interesting. You

1915
01:45:44,360 --> 01:45:47,840
Speaker 1: can check that out over on YouTube. Otherwise, just want

1916
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:51,280
Speaker 1: to thank all of you for joining us for this podcast,

1917
01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:54,880
Speaker 1: for tuning in, for considering these different ideas and perspectives.

1918
01:45:55,120 --> 01:45:57,599
Speaker 1: I found it really interesting. I hope you did too.

1919
01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:01,800
Speaker 1: Until next time, I hope you'll stay Wired to Hunt.

1920
01:46:02,800 --> 01:46:02,840
Speaker 1: H