WEBVTT - Golf Architecture Mailbag: Manufacturing, Mitigating Technology, & More 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.200 And when I find my ball in a fried egg. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.080 Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Friday, fridag Egg, fridagg 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.239 bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:13.640 the hump. 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.960 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Golf Podcast. 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.000 I am your host, Andy Johnson. Today I'm joined by 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.159 a friend of the program, a former big part of 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.360 the program, former co host of this podcast, Garrett Morrison. 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.680 Hello, Garrett, Hello, how's it going Andy. 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.240 It's going great. It's going great. We're going to talk 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:04.240 golf arct texture today. Always exciting, always fun to open 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.039 up the mail bag and and kick around some big 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:12.360 topics in golf. So we each picked four questions to 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.840 bat around, so we should have a a pretty full 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.720 I feel like we always have, like a big aspiration. 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.720 We're gonna get through a lot. I figured if we 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.600 just picked four each that it would probably fill up, 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:25.320 fill up the pod. 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.200 Aim small, miss small exactly exactly. 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.920 And before we get to the mail bag pod big 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.920 big news in the Friday Pro Shop, it's black Friday 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.080 It's that time of the year. It's time to save, 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.480 it's time to shop. That's the way this works, you know, 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.040 load up on your holiday gear. The Friday pro Shop 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.680 has a Black Friday Sale. The code is b F Sale, 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:56.800 which gets you twenty percent off everything. As as a reminder, 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.600 Friday Golf Club members, you guys get a little bit 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:05.800 more so if you use your normal code. It's very 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.280 secretive for those that aren't members, but you know, if 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.480 you use your normal fried Egg member code, you get 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.160 twenty five percent off this week. The only things that 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.960 aren't included in the sale at Proshop dot thefridagg dot 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:23.040 com are our book, our new coffee table book that 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.320 is going to ship pretty soon, and golf bags. So 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.960 those are the only two things that are excluded. Do 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.840 you have a favorite pick, Garrett from the pro Shop. 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.600 I mean, there are so many, and plus I might 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.840 not be totally up to date on what we actually 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:45.000 have in the Pro Shop in all honesty, because it 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:49.160 changes pretty quickly. Items sell out pretty quickly, and we 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.080 have a great crew led by Meg Atkins and Abby 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.640 Libenthal that keep things really fresh in there. But I 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:04.880 recently in a newsletter recommend getting a humble koozie. A 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.800 not interested in fighting kuzzi, which I think could be 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.519 very useful for some people because if you're using a kuzi, 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.120 you're probably drinking a beer. And if you're drinking a beer, 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.280 you might be in an environment where people might want 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.040 to fight, you know, because they're getting a little lubricated, 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:22.880 and you're just telling people with this kouzzy. I'm not 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.480 interested in participating in that, and I think it could 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:27.880 could help people evade certain situations. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.160 Yeah, I could save you, could really get you out 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:34.000 of a jam. I like that. I got a couple 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.360 of recks. I love the bet dratty they got that. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:38.760 We got a bunch of andy hoodies check that out, 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.800 and a bunch of other dratty stuff. But then I'm 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.160 a huge fan of this Friday Golf American needle hat. 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.200 It's just got Friday Golf in block text on it. 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.320 I'm just a big fan of it. So that that's 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:58.640 my wreck, and really earnest reck. It's not on sale, 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.120 you can't save money. I think the book's gonna be awesome. 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.040 I'd recommend the book. Check out the book. Garrett put 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:11.240 a lot of time and energy into that book and 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:13.840 it is. Uh. I think it's gonna be a beautiful 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.120 book to have and to read through. The pictures are 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.880 are spectacular, the writing's great, and I think it I 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.440 think it looks really good. So I would I would 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:27.240 recommend the book. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.080 The book's so cool. I mean, yeah, I was. I 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.719 was charged with editing a lot of the words that 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.400 are in the book. But the design of it is 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.080 so cool. And the photography that we have in there, 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:44.120 mostly taken by Andy obviously you Andy, Cameron Hurdis and 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.120 Matt Ruschius, is beautiful and I think the way it's 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.599 displayed in the book is going to be really fun. 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.760 Yeah. Did you do you have any photos that's snuck in? 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.240 I think I must have. You know, I photographed like 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.480 like Victoria Golf Club in Australia is in there, and 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.760 I was the one who photographed that one, and so people, 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.680 well people might be people might notice a decline in 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:10.640 the quality. I would assume, like it's definitely not my specialty, 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:15.599 but you know, pretty much everything looks good in golden 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.400 hour light. So as long as you get good light 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.880 that that sort of compensates for a lot of sins. 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.640 Yeah, so check all that out. Pro shop dot Thefrida 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:29.320 egg dot Com. It's BF Friday, and while we're at it, 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:35.120 I know it's not summer anymore. But Maui Nui, our 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.560 friends at Maui Nui have an always summer sausage and 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.400 it's the cleanest, most nutrient dense lunch meat on the planet. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:48.160 And it's crafted from one wild harvested access deer from 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:54.360 Maui uh seasoned with Hawaiian red sea salt and pink peppercorn. 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:59.800 So this tastes great, it fuels performance, does good for 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:04.280 the planet. And listen, it's not you know, it's not 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.360 always summer, but you can always eat summer sausage. It's 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.479 not a deli beat. It's a completely new way to 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:14.719 have a sandwich. I had one of these recently. It 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.320 was delicious. I recommend it honestly, like I didn't know 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.159 what I was I was getting into, and it was 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.320 a delightful sandwich beat, a lot healthier than your typical 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.719 sandwich meats, you know those those deli meats, and like 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:36.800 high in protein and it's super clean nutrition, unlike your 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.120 typical deli beat. So if you're interested in in uh, 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.520 Mali Nui's always summer sausage. You can go to Maui 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.840 Nui Venison. That's m a u I n Ui Venison 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.159 v E n I s O n dot com slash egg. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:55.800 And when you're asked about how you heard about Maui Nui, 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.360 make sure to mention this podcast because it helps support 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.440 the show. So go get your always summer sausage even 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:09.160 though it's the winner. I'll revolutionize your lunchtime sandwiches at 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.600 Maui Nui Venison dot com slash egg. All right, big 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.280 thanks to Maui Nui for the support this year. Garrett. 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:21.080 Let's get into the golf architecture discussion. Since you're the 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:25.080 guest here, let's give you the first question. I get 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:26.760 my influencer, Mike. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.960 Oh my goodness. Okay, where do I start? Well, there 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.160 were a lot of great questions. We each chose four, 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.600 so we chose a total of eight, and so there 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:39.320 are many we're not going to get to, but that 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.600 always happens anyway, so we just did it by design 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.239 this time. The first one I'd like to talk about 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.480 is from Brian Decker on Frida Egg Golf Club. So 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.000 we put out a call for questions within our new 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.640 community forum and Frida Egg Golf Club, which has been 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.400 a lot of fun so far. Whatever you may think 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.440 of message boards on the internet, this one one is 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.600 is I feel like so far it's one of the 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:06.360 good ones. But in any case, Brian asks on FUGC, 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:12.600 the privately owned ultra premium national membership club model seems 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.080 to be the most common source of quality architecture over 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.760 the past few years, beyond the obvious examples like the park. 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.720 What are some other forms of developer slash ownership models 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.440 that you've seen that have produced good golf and might 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:29.080 be scalable elsewhere. 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.079 I don't think there's been a lot of diversity in 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:38.080 the in the type of types of models. I think 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.040 one that jumps to mind is the public private partnership 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.120 for for public golf. 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:44.880 This is the. 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:52.120 Answer where you know a a private group ideally that 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.400 has the you know, aligned intentions with a with a 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.480 municipality or a county. You know one the would jump 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:04.040 to mind as Rustic Canyon. This is an example of this, 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.160 and don't you know, I don't know the exact intricacies 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.240 of it, but it's a lease and you know, one 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.760 of the big parts of the lease is a is 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.720 keeping the golf affordable. And what you get there is 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:23.480 you get a ownership group of the lease that is 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.280 aligned and you know, maybe it's not an ownership group, 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:31.640 it's a leaseee that's aligned with the municipality or county 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.360 where it is, Hey, we want to provide an asset 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.560 for the community, and we're going to give you the 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:44.280 key here is that give them a long lease that's 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.720 very manageable. A lot of times you see these and 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.319 it's a dollar, you know, a year, you know, some structure, 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:55.480 different ways there could be profit sharing, but anyways, it 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.400 sets up a situation because the problem with so many 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.720 of these you know, municipalities or public golf courses when 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:08.240 they go to a you know, a lease model is 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:12.880 if you give somebody a five year lease, there's no 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:18.439 time to put capital improvements, significant capital improvements in place 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:23.160 and recoup the money. You need to have a long 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:28.480 term lease. And this is where fifty seventy one hundred 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.400 years is really beneficial because then all of a sudden, 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.160 if you want to do a major project, let's just say, 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.440 you need to do the irrigation it is it is 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.920 worn out, and you also want to you know, redo 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.400 the bunkers, and some greens and make some big changes 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.439 with the golf course. Okay, if I put eight to 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:52.079 ten million dollars into the golf course, I now have 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:59.120 the opportunity to recapture that that revenue over ten fifteen years. 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.280 What the issue is when these at leases are short 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.480 is you have no incentive to do that because you're 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.680 just going to lose money and the person leasing the 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.400 property could change who they listen to, you know. So 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.800 I think that's that's probably the model that's worked the best. 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.680 I think there's room for other models, we just haven't 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.439 really seen it yet. I think the model I'm kind 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:30.680 of most interested in is the idea of extremely low 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:31.760 amenity golf. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:37.200 That's new. Yeah, mom and pop golf. I'd love to 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.240 see how mom and pop golf might work in the 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:44.280 current environment. Mike Young at the Fields outside of Atlanta 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.000 is a big advocate of people trying this. It's not 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:52.400 a big profit business, but you can make a profit 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.920 if you save costs and if you operate at a 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:01.559 very you know, efficient according to a very efficient philosophy, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:08.560 and you might be presenting course conditions that aren't luxurious, 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.800 but they're serving a certain segment of the market. You're 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:17.200 providing affordable golf for people, and you're not relying on 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.720 the backing of a municipality to do it. So I 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.680 would like to see more people try mom and pop 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:25.080 golf because there are a lot of people out there 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.599 who love golf who really would like to own a 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.880 golf course and run a golf course, but are scared 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.679 to do it because you know, they think that they 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.720 might lose all their money, and that's a legitimate worry. 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.120 But you just have to be smart and efficient, and 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.640 I think you can do it. There have been, there 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.920 are a number of examples out there of people who 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.680 are doing it, and you know, they're relatively rare, and 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:50.760 not all of them are the greatest courses in the world. 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.880 But I wish people weren't as scared as they seem 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:56.480 to be to pursue this. 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.480 Well. I think some of it is such a follow 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:05.760 the leader type situation, and I think, like I think 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.920 also where people get wrapped up is they feel like 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.200 if they own a golf course, they have to have 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:18.680 the most luxurious, most talked about golf course, and often 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:27.280 what gets propped up in golf is exclusivity, opulence and 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:32.960 over the top features not necessarily even the golf course. 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.400 I'm not talking about the golf course features. I'm talking 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:44.040 about the comfort stations, the clubhouses, the amenities, and sometimes 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:49.520 what gets lost. Is one of the things I talked 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.520 about this with KVV a little bit, is there's a 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:58.840 startling lack of development across the different markets in golf. 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.560 All the development right now is at the high end. Yeah, 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.760 and I'm curious to see if people could make different 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:16.000 models work. And I understand the construction industry and materials 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:19.520 industry has made some of that difficult. 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:24.440 There's also a startling lack of development in high population places, 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.440 but and that's another issue having to do with land 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.720 costs and a number of understandable factors. So a couple 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:38.280 of thoughts on models. Quick thoughts. One, you mentioned the 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:42.400 lease agreements that many municipalities have for their golf courses. 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:47.280 Those are pretty common. But the lease ees that I'm 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.440 most interested in, or that I tend to be the 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:53.440 most interested in, are not the big companies that do 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.240 that have a lot of these management contracts. There are 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.760 efficiencies within those companies, and some of thempanies are better 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.120 than others, but that's kind of the usual thing. Is 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.760 that a municipality is going to give the lease to 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.760 a company that has a lot of other accounts and 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.640 a track record, and that can work out fine, just 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.840 depending on the specific people who are there. Sometimes it's 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.520 not so great. Sometimes there's not a lot of heart 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:24.600 and soul put into those projects. But I tend to 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:29.160 like the leases that are taken by individuals or very 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.560 small businesses that want to make something of their golf 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.240 courses invest in their golf courses. Those ones can have 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:42.960 really really good results. Public private partnership you mentioned this, 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.320 There are a lot of different versions of this. There 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:51.000 are groups in cities like Nashville that are fundraising and 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:57.120 pulling off pretty ambitious renovation projects at municipal courses because 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:01.440 they've gathered together a bunch of golf enthusiasts who have 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:05.840 some money and they've decided to support their municipal courses. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:11.240 And that is definitely something that we saw at the 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:16.360 park and something that we're occasionally seeing popping up in 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.760 various cities across the country, but I wish it were 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.840 a little more common. And then the final one I 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.800 want to mention is the possibility of a community oriented, 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:33.080 very low cost private club I wish there were more 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:37.640 of those. I think those are that's a feasible model, 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.120 probably not as hard to work out as the mom 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:44.080 and pop course. But if we had a greater supply 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:49.240 of affordable private clubs, a lot of the pressures on 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:54.920 public golf and a lot of the movement toward really 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:59.040 high end private golf wouldn't be as worrisome. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.480 I think you hit the nail on the head a 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.560 little bit with that one. One of the reasons we 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:10.080 don't have that as much anymore is that the demand 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:14.600 for private golf is so high in metropolitan areas that 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:20.400 what were the affordable options have gotten more expensive since COVID. 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:25.200 Yeah, everybody's everybody has really high initiation fees right now. 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:30.280 A fascinating study would be, it would require somebody with 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:35.040 you know, a little bit of intel in relationships in 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:41.680 a city, would be to compare the costs of membership 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:48.359 between dues and initiation of clubs in a major city 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.440 like New York or Chicago or LA. If you could 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:56.080 get a full list of a good list of clubs, 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:01.040 compare pre COVID post code and what they are, I 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:06.040 think it would be shocking how how much the price 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:11.280 has gone up for clubs that are that used to 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:19.080 be considered very affordable. Yeah, and it's really just a 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:19.960 demand thing, I. 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.040 Mean huge in the twenty twenties. This has been a 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:23.200 recent change. 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:30.040 This is just economics at work. Yeah, it's not anybody's fault. 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.520 And what they've done is they've improved their club with 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:37.000 the Capitol and they're more amenities than ever. But I 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:42.399 think one of the things that's happened in golf is 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.320 it's really I wrote about a course that I was 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.120 a member of in I was probably a member from 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:55.720 I don't know twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen through twenty sixteen, 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:01.640 twenty seventeen, probably twenty seventeen Calumet Country Club, which closed 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:07.480 this this past week. And you know, there's I found 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.520 out after I wrote the piece that there was a 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.280 lot there's a lot more going on potentially with it. 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:18.280 You know that maybe a story to come. But but 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.800 one of the things I think about is I was 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:29.000 in my late twenties and a great woman, Lorraine Skodro, 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:34.320 who runs tournaments for the CDGA, the Chicago District Golf Association, 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.480 that I played in a lot of those. She runs 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.439 ran ternaments for him. And she said, Andy, you know, 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.080 you're costing your money. You live in the city, You're 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.199 costing yourself money every year that you don't join Caliumet. 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:46.720 And I was like, what do you mean. She's like, 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.240 you play all this golf, Like why wouldn't you join there? 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.040 The deal's great. So I went down and I looked 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.320 at it, and at the time, you know, and this 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.760 was probably a harpinger for why they had financial problems 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.240 and that we were in financial crisis. It was one 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.840 hundred and fifty dollars a month for me to join. 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:07.320 Yeah, and this was, I mean, okay, twenty thirteen, still 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.879 in the blast zone of the Great Recession, and still 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.679 at a low point for golf, right, and so this 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:20.800 was probably the best time in the past, I don't know, 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.040 one hundred years to try to join a private golf 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:25.359 club in terms of finances. 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.320 So I and they had a referral program which knocked it. 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:31.520 I knocked it down. I was paying one hundred bucks 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.520 a month and I had I think one hundred dollars 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:37.280 food minimum a month. And it was an amazing deal. 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:42.560 I I was. I played so much golf, I got 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.240 so many of my friends to join, and it was 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.719 a great place. And I don't think like I'm not 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.520 saying that's the model. I want to be clear. I 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.439 know that that's not a real model for golf. But 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:59.280 I think about today, where do you know, you talk 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.240 about what's going on in the world and the way 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:05.000 the costs have gone up, where does it we've seen 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.920 all this growth, Where does the twenty eight year old 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:14.160 young professional play golf, who is you know, working their 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:19.320 ass off to just house themselves at this point if 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:20.480 they live in a major city. 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.840 Where where does the regular forty year old dad play golf? 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:27.920 I don't know if there are even those places right now, 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.800 like middle class, middle aged people. 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.879 And it's a great it's a great situation. The game 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:39.919 has has grown so much in terms of participation, but 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:45.160 you've done some stuff with it with the NGNGF. It's 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.760 I think we're in such a similar position to the 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.760 nineties when they recommended, was it the nineties they recommended 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.040 a new golf course need to be built every day? 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:54.600 Was that? 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.920 I know that you have you have this in your 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.000 vault of oh right. 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.720 I bring it up from time to time with my 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:05.320 friends over there at the ENNGF. I think that they 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:12.320 learned a lesson from that prediction slash recommendation, and are 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.840 more cautious now in their kind of prognostications about where 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:16.760 the industry is going. 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:23.359 But golf has this huge supply issue at every level, 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:30.280 and there's no I don't foresee any way of fixing it. 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.639 Yeah, aside from increasing the supply, which has proven to 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.920 be I guess too expensive. Land costs are the big 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.200 factor there. Yeah. Where I would just like to see 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:48.240 some work done is on economy of construction and economy 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:52.399 of maintenance. I'm not sure that really that many people 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:54.879 are thinking about those things. People just sort of seem 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:59.240 to accept that right now. Golf courses cost a certain 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:03.159 amount to build, build, and maintain, but a lot of 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:06.720 what people think of as needs of construction and maintenance 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.280 are actually once And I would like to see a 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:17.520 perspective shift among golfers about what constitutes good conditioning. And 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:21.240 I would like to see a perspective shift among developers 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:25.359 about how much these projects actually cost, because I don't 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:29.000 think that they need to cost as much as they do. 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:31.879 So that's at least one area I'd like us to 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:35.560 work on. But I recognize it's a tough situation. Nobody 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:38.359 can afford to build an affordable golf course anymore, and 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:41.960 it's a real problem. But the current economic conditions that 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:45.800 we have right now won't last forever. Things will shift 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:48.600 and the golf industry will shift with it. 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:56.000 And if the economic conditions shift, it'll be interesting to 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:59.560 see if golfs demand issue shifts. 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:03.359 Yeah, let's hope that the shift isn't disastrous. But of course, 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:07.399 the trend in economic shifts over the past number of 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:10.080 years has been you know, they've been a little more 0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:11.760 severe than you would want. 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:16.080 Yeah, all right, let's get to the next question. 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.240 We just finally Yeah, right, we're gonna even fall short. 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:21.680 We've gotta, we've gotta, we've got to knock these knock 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:24.640 these out here, all right. 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:28.919 This is a question about how we rate courses. In 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:33.679 case anybody doesn't know, we rate courses in Friday Golf Club. 0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:37.199 If you join, you can get access to I think 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:40.720 we're probably at like one hundred and fifty reviews at 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:44.200 this point. With ratings. We do a zero, one, two 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:49.840 three egg system. It's very similar to a Michelin Star system. 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:53.320 Yeah. I saw I saw on the app known as 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.720 X recently that this would be a great idea for 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.600 how to rate golf courses and somebody should do it. 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:03.560 And I think it was our friend and colleague, Brendan 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:06.040 Porath who put his hand up and said, actually we 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:06.359 do that. 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:15.919 Yeah. So a question from Mike, I'm I'm is it? 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:17.960 I'm okay, I apologies. 0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:24.120 I was told by the whole family at an event. Okay. 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:26.240 I haven't met him in person. He's a he's a 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:28.840 big contributor to Friday Golf Club and a very it 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:29.960 seems like a very nice. 0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:32.960 Guy, great player, great player, whole family great players of 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:33.600 their own right. 0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:36.960 His brother is a coach, right is that his brother 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:38.760 at the University of Iowa. 0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:43.000 Yeah. Yeah, played played on a bunch of developmental tour 0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:46.560 like the Latin America for a while. They all, they 0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:51.040 all can get her around father, father and sons. How 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:54.520