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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Good morning everyone, Happy Friday. We've got a full pack

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Speaker 3: BP crew here. We got Crystal, we got Ryan, we

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Speaker 3: got Saga, and we've got I can't tell who that is?

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Speaker 3: Is it a young Republican?

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Speaker 4: Max Republican representing the youth here? Yes, that's right, gen Z,

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Speaker 4: gen Z youth right, that's right. We're not ready for

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Speaker 4: Jen Alpha. So we got gen Z here today, and

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Speaker 4: we got a bunch of stories. We've got Trump talking

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Speaker 4: about more Venezuela strikes.

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Speaker 5: We've got a bunch show other stories.

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Speaker 3: Eric Adams has endorsed Cuomo in the New York mayor race,

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Speaker 3: and a bunch of other fun stuff. But first we're

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Speaker 3: gonna go to Ryan and Sager, who's been doing some

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Speaker 3: gum shoe reporting, some reporting exclusively released here.

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Speaker 5: First, saga, Ryan, why don't you take it away? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Ryan and I've been working on this for a couple

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Speaker 1: of days. Tease it yesterday, So I'm gonna go ahead.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't actually even been published, so this is exclusive

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Speaker 1: literally to our entire breaking Points audience. I'll just read

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Speaker 1: a little bit from what I wrote at the top,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna throw off to Ryan who, by

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Speaker 1: the way, Ryan did the bulk of the actual bulk reporting,

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Speaker 1: so I do want to shout it out to him.

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Speaker 6: I was just simply the phone, Hi. Sager raced it

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Speaker 6: back up, got back on the journalistic field.

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Speaker 5: I love it. I appreciate it, right.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate every opportunity you give me for a byeline.

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Speaker 1: So it is good to get the dusty fingers off,

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Speaker 1: all right. So US Intelligence has assessed that none of

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Speaker 1: the fentanyl that is trafficked to the United States is

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Speaker 1: being produced in Venezuela, despite recent claims from the Trump administration,

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Speaker 1: a senior US official directly tells me. The official noted

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Speaker 1: that many of the boats targeted for strikes by the

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Speaker 1: administration do not even have the requisite gasoline or motor

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Speaker 1: capacity to reach US waters, dramatically undercutting claims by Defense

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Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth quote. Despite the intelligence on Venezuela's lack of

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Speaker 1: association with fentanyl, the Trump administration has made Venezuela and

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Speaker 1: government drug trafficking the cassis belli in its drive to

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Speaker 1: overthrow the government of Nicholas Maduro. Toward that end, Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State Marco Rubio has redirected millions of dollars in

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Speaker 1: money previously allocated under USID towards pro democracy measures in

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Speaker 1: Venezuela and the surrounding countries, a thinly veiled effort to

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Speaker 1: prep the region for war. Two sources familiar with the

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Speaker 1: discussions tell me that a long proponent of regime change,

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Speaker 1: Marco Rubio is the driving force behind the aggressive military

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Speaker 1: posture towards the Maduro regime. Toward that end, Rubio, who

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Speaker 1: is in charge of the remnants of USAID, has redirected

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Speaker 1: some money previously allocated for pre pro democracy measures in

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Speaker 1: Venezuela in a fiendly veiled effort, as we said earlier.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm going to kick it now to Ryan

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Speaker 1: who actually did all of the reporting along with his

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Speaker 1: colleagues over at drop site, to actually expose what some

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Speaker 1: of those efforts actually look like at a contract level.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and so we tried to go around Congress seeing

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Speaker 6: what had been noticed when it comes to, you know,

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Speaker 6: money being moved from USAID over to inl or other

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Speaker 6: state department buckets. Jack Paulson, my colleague, dug through a

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Speaker 6: bunch of kind of federal records and found some interesting

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Speaker 6: buckets of money being moved around. Maybe the most interesting.

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Speaker 6: We've got a four point eight million dollar contract that

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Speaker 6: was moved for a quote Columbia virtual shooting range. It's

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Speaker 6: a contract with an Arizona based company called Virtue. This

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Speaker 6: so funding a shooting range in Colombia. Meanwhile, at one

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Speaker 6: point seventy three million dollar foreign military sale through the

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Speaker 6: US Coast Guard of of a bunch of twenty one

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Speaker 6: foot boats UH to a Colombian entity. And so we

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Speaker 6: got a tip that what we needed to do is

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Speaker 6: like look at the Colombia, look at Venezuela, and the

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Speaker 6: bordering countries, particularly Colombia and Guyana, where these kind of

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Speaker 6: anti Maduro Venezuelan factions set up shop. If you remember,

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Speaker 6: there was attempted twenty twenty coup that was funded largely

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Speaker 6: through USAID and other state Department money, which they comically

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Speaker 6: referred to as the Bay of Piglets because it was

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Speaker 6: such a it, it was such a catash for it

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Speaker 6: couldn't even rise to the Bay of pigs.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't even a mature pig.

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Speaker 6: It wasn't even a much wasn't even a mature pig.

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Speaker 6: And so, and you also have this conflict playing out

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Speaker 6: between Excellon Mobile and Guyana, which and these and these

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Speaker 6: like Gian entities that keep threatening to move on, uh,

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Speaker 6: move on Venezuela. And so what you've got is the

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Speaker 6: ground being prepped for all sorts of kind of mischief

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Speaker 6: and sabotage and troublemaking. While President Trump is now you know,

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Speaker 6: talking about bombing. All of this, we're told is being

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Speaker 6: really driven by you know, Marco Rubio, who throughout the

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Speaker 6: beginning of the Trump administration was trying to make the

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Speaker 6: case for regime change in Venezuela using kind of the

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Speaker 6: old school you know, South Florida arguments like human rights abuses.

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Speaker 6: We've got to get these communists out of our hemisphere.

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Speaker 6: We got this, the election was stolen. We can't we

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Speaker 6: can't allow uh, you know, we can't allow stolen election

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Speaker 6: here in our hemisphere. And Trump, i'd say, unsurprisingly, he

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Speaker 6: was not moved by any of those arguments. Trump in

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Speaker 6: the very beginning of his term was trying, and I

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Speaker 6: think it was a Washington Post report this to actually

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Speaker 6: make good in his promise to attack Mexican drug cartels.

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Speaker 6: But the lawyers and also the a lot of diplomats

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Speaker 6: are like, I'm sorry, Like this is geopolitically untenable at

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Speaker 6: this point. You cannot just start bombing inside Mexico. And

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Speaker 6: Rubio's like, aha, guess what. There's cartels in Venezuela and

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Speaker 6: the cartel leader is his name is Nicholas Maduro. And

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Speaker 6: here's this, here's this like indictment from twenty twenty where

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Speaker 6: he was involved in cocaine trafficking, and that scratched Trump's itch.

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Speaker 6: And so that's that's how he persuaded Trump to kind

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Speaker 6: of start backing regime change in Venezuela through this shoehorn

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Speaker 6: of the drug trafficking. Meanwhile, it's all become about fentanyl

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Speaker 6: because cocaine people. People don't think cocaine really causes hundreds

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Speaker 6: of thousands of deaths in the United States. You know,

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Speaker 6: it can destroy people's lives. It's not the thing that's

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Speaker 6: ripping apart entire generation of young people. That's fentanyl. And

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Speaker 6: so just out of nowhere, they started saying Venezuela is

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Speaker 6: producing fentanyl. And you know, as as we learned through

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Speaker 6: our reporting saga, you could talk about this, American intelligence

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Speaker 6: assesses that little to nona have you, as you mentioned to,

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Speaker 6: little to none of the ventanyl, if any, is coming

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Speaker 6: out of Venice.

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Speaker 7: Is being mass produced in Venezuela.

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Speaker 2: But did you, guys ask the important question of what

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Speaker 2: Israeli intelligence says, since we like to rely on that

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Speaker 2: instead of our own intelligence.

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Speaker 7: I think is reminding me of.

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Speaker 2: When you see I'm just reminded of when Tulsea Gabbard went,

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Speaker 2: you know, and testified to Congress and said, we see

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Speaker 2: no indications that iron is pursuing is pursuing a nuclear weapon,

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Speaker 2: and they decided to just pretend that didn't happen a

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Speaker 2: lot of the American people and be like but they

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Speaker 2: Israeli say something different.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, I think even the Israelis are not dumb enough

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Speaker 1: to claim this one. And I think one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the key pieces that Ryan and I kind

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Speaker 1: of put together. First of all, the USAID money stuff

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Speaker 1: is very interesting in and of itself. Perhaps the most

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Speaker 1: interesting kind of tip that we got was about shaping

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Speaker 1: the area around and what Ryan and his colleagues were

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Speaker 1: able to hammer down was that the battle space, if

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Speaker 1: you will, of Guyana and of Colombia are the jump

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Speaker 1: off points where previous regime change efforts have sprung from

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Speaker 1: on Venezuela. And I think kind of secondary to what

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Speaker 1: Ryan is talking about is the internal logic of the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration. And one of the really interesting things that

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Speaker 1: has happened is that Trump has somehow been convinced, at

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Speaker 1: least as of this moment. Everybody remember he can change

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Speaker 1: his mind at any time, as he did. Remember the

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Speaker 1: six day timeline I laid out on Ukraine is that

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Speaker 1: we went from demanding a piece deal to sanctions and

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Speaker 1: long range missiles in the span of literally five to

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Speaker 1: six days. So, of course all of this is just

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Speaker 1: current to what Ryan and I understand as of right now.

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Speaker 1: But one of the key pieces is about the oil

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Speaker 1: and the minerals, the vast amount of resources that Venezuela has.

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Speaker 1: Keep in mind, Nicholas Maduro offered everything. This is according

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Speaker 1: to Donald Trump, and it's also according to the sources

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Speaker 1: that Ryan and I were able.

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Speaker 7: To speak to.

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Speaker 1: He was saying, I will give you oil. I will

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Speaker 1: happily to invite you know, US oil companies down here.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, you know, he currently is shipping a

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Speaker 1: significant amount of oil to China, some half a million

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Speaker 1: barrels per day actually just last month, and that is

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Speaker 1: just scratching the surface of the Venezuelan oil capacity. Now,

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Speaker 1: Trump is obviously salivating at that. He wants to get

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Speaker 1: oil prices down here in the US. He wants to

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Speaker 1: make sure the US oil industry is booming. Rubio has

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Speaker 1: very cleverly convinced the President that actually the best way

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Speaker 1: to get access to this oil resources is through regime

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Speaker 1: change itself. And so that is why this is now

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Speaker 1: kind of a central question inside the administration. And it's

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Speaker 1: one which obviously, I mean, just you know our own editorial,

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Speaker 1: Ryan and I are like, that doesn't make any sense

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Speaker 1: collapsing a regime to extract resources when the current regime

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Speaker 1: is like, take whatever you want. They're like, anything not

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Speaker 1: nailed down to the floor, take it, you can have it.

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Speaker 1: You're like, where to sell it to you? Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: we'll pry it up for you, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: want it. It's a tremendous risk. And there's a couple

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Speaker 1: of other areas that I think are really worth kind

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Speaker 1: of delving into how this happened. And I'm not taking

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Speaker 1: away Trump's agency, but just to just to explain some

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Speaker 1: of the internal dynamics. One of the most interesting things

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Speaker 1: that Ryan and I kind of delved into is the

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Speaker 1: Florida Cabal. And I think that's something that's really important

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Speaker 1: to this story. Is that you have the White House

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Speaker 1: Chief of Staff from Florida. You have the Secretary of

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Speaker 1: State from Florida. You have Senator Rick Scott, who's a

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Speaker 1: very high level person on the Senate Foreign relationsis Committee General,

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General is from Florida. One of the White

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Speaker 1: House senior communications aids is from Florida. The President himself

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Speaker 1: is now a Florida resident. So he is surrounded in

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Speaker 1: an ideological kind of cabal, which is genuinely unique to

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Speaker 1: the situation. At any time. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: that I think is hard to explain for anybody who's

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Speaker 1: not familiar with that South Florida dynamic is the ideological

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Speaker 1: fervor that they treat the overthrow of the Maduro regime.

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Speaker 1: You have a lot of rich Venezuelan expats. You also

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Speaker 1: have a lot of Cubans others ideologically motivated actors against socialism.

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Speaker 1: So this Florida picture is really key to the entire story,

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Speaker 1: and it does show you how Rubio has a lot

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Speaker 1: of allies on his side. The tertiary to also that

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Speaker 1: gristle is something you mentioned about Steven Miller, is that

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Speaker 1: if the United States is in aged in a quote

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Speaker 1: war with trend de' arragua and with Venezuela and the

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Speaker 1: Venezuelan regime, it actually legally bolsters the argument, the legal

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Speaker 1: argument for the Alien Enemies Act and for some of

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Speaker 1: the other deportations of the Trump administration is currently doing.

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Speaker 1: So that's a small part of the story, but it

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Speaker 1: is important from a domestic point of view, because what

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Speaker 1: it belies is that there's not enough voices in the

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Speaker 1: White House saying, hey, if we're worried about illegal immigration,

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Speaker 1: the worst possible thing we could do is collapse a

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Speaker 1: regime which is shaky at best, which governs millions of people,

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Speaker 1: which could flood the region, flood the United States, flood

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Speaker 1: you know, based all of Central America and Cosmo mass

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Speaker 1: refugee crisis.

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Speaker 2: Destabilize a bunch of countries, and then of course the

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Speaker 2: fall on from ours as well. And just a quick

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Speaker 2: note on the political dynamics as well, because I've been

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Speaker 2: making my head against the wall about why Democrats aren't

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Speaker 2: saying much of it. I mean, very few. Rocanna, Mark Pokan,

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Speaker 2: a couple love them, but by and large they're pretty quiet.

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Speaker 2: And I actually talked to Rocana about this yesterday, Kyle

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Speaker 2: and I did, And first of all, he revealed some

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Speaker 2: news that the Progressive Caucus has an official policy not

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Speaker 2: to take position, for their members to not talk about Palestine, Israel, Palestine,

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Speaker 2: that's inside. But he used that as a way of

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Speaker 2: exposing how on a lot of foreign policy issues, even

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Speaker 2: quote unquote Progressives have this very old school neocon cold

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Speaker 2: War formed ideology. And so now even though Florida is

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Speaker 2: long gone for Democrats like not competitive outside of you know,

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Speaker 2: some individual congressional districts, they still. The part of the

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Speaker 2: reason why you don't hear them loudly opposing this is

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Speaker 2: because many of them don't really oppose it. And we

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Speaker 2: saw that first, you know, certainly in the first Trump

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Speaker 2: administration with the whole one Guido, you know, coup attempt,

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Speaker 2: and many Democrats were fully supportive, many, if not most,

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Speaker 2: if not practically all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and not to mentioned everybody remember who got the

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Speaker 1: Nobel Prize this year, right, it was a Venezuelan opposition

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Speaker 1: figure who you know, it doesn't take a genius to say,

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Speaker 1: is very supported, I'll say, at the least by the West.

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Speaker 1: And so the political dynamics of this are very dangerous.

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Speaker 1: We are moving, Griffin. Can you go ahead and queue

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Speaker 1: up Donald Trump the logic for land strikes in Venezuela.

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Speaker 1: This is the next part of the military campaign which

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Speaker 1: we may see, go ahead and play it.

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Speaker 8: And briefed them on the operation.

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Speaker 5: No, we will go, you will go, and we will go.

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Speaker 9: We go for them to have judge, I don't see

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Speaker 9: any loss and go and no reason not to. You know,

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Speaker 9: they'll always complain, oh, we should have gone. So we're

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Speaker 9: gonna definitely, I'd like to just tell you, let's go

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Speaker 9: we'll go We're gonna tell them what we're gonna do,

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Speaker 9: and I think they're gonna probably like it, except for

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Speaker 9: the radical left lunatics.

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Speaker 10: And mister President, if you are declaring war against these cartels,

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Speaker 10: and Congress is likely to approve of that process, why

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Speaker 10: not just ask for a declaration of war.

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Speaker 9: Well, I don't think we're gonna necessarily asked for a

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Speaker 9: declaration of war. I think we're just going to kill

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Speaker 9: people that are bringing drugs into our country.

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Speaker 7: Okay, We're going to kill them.

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Speaker 5: You know, they're going to be like dead.

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Speaker 1: Okay, like that great question from a friend of the show,

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Speaker 1: Philip Wegman. What he underscored there was a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: Number one is about the military strikes that not asking Congress.

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Speaker 1: A second part, which was very important actually to the discussion,

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Speaker 1: is we really had two options. Trump was actually asked

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Speaker 1: live whether B one bombers were present off the coast

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Speaker 1: of Venezuela. He denied that, despite flight radar actually showing

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Speaker 1: these you know, very capable, highly sophisticated US aircraft that

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Speaker 1: were some fifty miles off the Venezuelan coastline. And actually

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Speaker 1: that was later confirmed via Pentagon sources that it was

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Speaker 1: a legitimate operation. This comes after we also had the

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Speaker 1: B fifty two bombers which very recently were off the

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Speaker 1: coast of Venezuela that took off from Barksale Air Force Base,

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Speaker 1: not to mention the large navel build up that we

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Speaker 1: have in the Caribbean. Third thing that we have to

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Speaker 1: remember is that the southcom Admiral, the admiral who was

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Speaker 1: in charge of these operations recently departed his post. Now

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to chase some of that down, and

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Speaker 1: I don't have it all fully nailed down, but it

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Speaker 1: does appear, at least from a little bit of what

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Speaker 1: we know, is that he was subjecting both to the

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Speaker 1: legality and the scope of some of the operations that

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Speaker 1: were happening. And I think everyone should be banging their

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Speaker 1: head against the wall because I don't. And I said

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Speaker 1: this yesterday. Where is MAGA on this? There's a New

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Speaker 1: York Times article I do want to give credit which

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Speaker 1: just came out yesterday. Some MAGA allies friends of mine,

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Speaker 1: people like Kurt Mills and apparently Laura Loomer as well.

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Speaker 1: I guess we're glad to have you, Laura, are speaking

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Speaker 1: out or at least a little bit, you know, behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes, but you know, there is no large scale

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Speaker 1: awareness in the way that there was on Iran, which

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Speaker 1: was legitimately did check some of the regime change efforts

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Speaker 1: that were happening originally by the Israelis and from the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration. They at least felt that they were politically

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Speaker 1: precarious this time. Much of MAGA is buying this fentanyl line,

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Speaker 1: hook Line and sinker, I think because they're desperate to

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Speaker 1: see some war against the drug cartels. But they're not

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Speaker 1: asking for basic evidence.

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Speaker 7: Right now.

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Speaker 1: It really is just Ran Paul who is standing up

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Speaker 1: and speaking out about this, and of course he's being

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Speaker 1: heavily penalized by the White House. Everybody, remember, if you're

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Speaker 1: Lindsay Graham and you agitate for regime change across the world,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump will do his very first fundraiser of the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six campaign with you at a golf tournament.

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Speaker 1: That's not an exaggeration. He also only punished one senator

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Speaker 1: recently in an invitation to the White House. That was

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Speaker 1: Senator Ran Paul for speaking out against the Venezuela operation.

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Speaker 1: This is now central to how Trump views himself as

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Speaker 1: part of the Republican Party.

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Speaker 2: And Lindsay Graham's floating making Venezuela fifty first date. So

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Speaker 2: I don't think is what MAGA thought they were voting for.

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Speaker 2: But now they're ready to go along with it, apparently.

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Speaker 2: Can we just go back to that Trump stop because

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Speaker 2: that was fucking insane. Like when I saw the quote

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Speaker 2: of what he said, I thought it was some like

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Speaker 2: sort of shit post summarizing speculatively what he really meant.

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Speaker 2: And then I listened to it and I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: he actually said, like we'll kill them, They'll be dead,

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Speaker 2: Like he actually said that. And when he's talking, I

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Speaker 2: really really really want people to take this in. Okay,

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Speaker 2: when he's talking about the ability to randomly murder people

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Speaker 2: that this administration claims our drug cartel members, we already

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Speaker 2: know they've lied about some of that. We already know,

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Speaker 2: as you guys reported that they know that none of

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Speaker 2: what they're doing has anything to do with fentanel. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so we know that they lie routinely about all of this.

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Speaker 2: They are claiming the ability to assassinate anyone that they

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Speaker 2: want to with no due process and not quote unquote

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Speaker 2: just in Venezuela or Colombia or some you know in

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Speaker 2: the Caribbean or in the Pacific we're talking about here.

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Speaker 2: And that's why the Stephen Miller connect is also very

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Speaker 2: important and why I'm sure he loves this right because

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Speaker 2: they are claiming extraordinary powers for themselves to do the

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Speaker 2: sort of things that previously in the War on terror,

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Speaker 2: you know, we're only done in foreign lands, to do

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Speaker 2: them here on our soil, and for us to have

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Speaker 2: no recourse, and for them to not have to provide

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Speaker 2: a shred of evidence that these people are who they

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Speaker 2: say they are. By the way, even if they are

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Speaker 2: drug traffickers, they shouldn't have We have a court system,

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Speaker 2: we have a judicial system, We have a justice system

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Speaker 2: in order to try them and evaluate the evidence and

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Speaker 2: for them to be held accountable. So this to me

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Speaker 2: is a red alert. It is red alert domestically. It

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Speaker 2: is a red alert in terms of regime change wars.

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Speaker 2: It is red alert in terms of authoritarianism, Like, we

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Speaker 2: are so far off the rails that I can scarcely

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Speaker 2: wrap my head roun it.

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Speaker 1: Griffin, if you don't mind, could you pull up Pete

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Speaker 1: hagg Seth talking about this, because this show I just

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Speaker 1: want to pick up on this, hagg Sath, I want

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Speaker 1: everybody to listen to the language that he uses very

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Speaker 1: carefully about ISIS and al Qaeda. That's the one that

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Speaker 1: you can look for, Griffin, because this kind of gets

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Speaker 1: to the extra judicial assassination previously that we saw the

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Speaker 1: legal justification under the Obama and the Bush administrations where

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Speaker 1: they're allowed to actually extra judicially execute and assassinate anybody

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Speaker 1: who was deemed a quote terrorist.

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Speaker 7: Do you have it in front of you, Griffin, can.

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Speaker 5: We play it? Yeah, coming up right now?

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Speaker 7: Okay, cool?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So again just setting it up and kind of

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Speaker 1: bolster that point around how this is now coming here

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Speaker 1: to the Western hemisphere.

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Speaker 5: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 11: Tell as was mentioned, these are designated terrorist organizations, foreign

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Speaker 11: terrorist organizations. Our generation spent the better part of two

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Speaker 11: decades hunting al Qaeda, hunting ISIS well, as the President said,

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Speaker 11: this is the Ice, this is the al Qaeda of

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Speaker 11: the Western hemisphere. They intimidate, they terrorize, they extort, they

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Speaker 11: poison the American people. The President's right, every boat we

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Speaker 11: strike is twenty five thousand Americans whose lives are saved

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Speaker 11: because of the drugs that were headed in our direction.

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Speaker 11: So our message to these foreign terrorist organizations is we

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Speaker 11: will treat you like we have treated al Qaeda. We

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Speaker 11: will find you, we will map your networks, we will

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Speaker 11: hunt you down, and.

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Speaker 7: We will kill you.

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Speaker 11: And you've seen that evidence in the maritime domain, whether

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Speaker 11: it's in the Caribbean or in the Pacific. With the

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Speaker 11: last two strikes. We know exactly who these people are.

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Speaker 11: We know what networks they work with, what foreign terrorists

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Speaker 11: organizations they're a part of. We know where they're going,

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Speaker 11: where they originated from, what they're carrying.

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Speaker 3: He knows who they are except for I think there

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Speaker 3: were people that had to release recently.

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Speaker 1: Right well, so that's of you know, that is an

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Speaker 1: important part of the story, and it kind of undercuts

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Speaker 1: the same logic. If you struck a boat of terrorists

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Speaker 1: and two of them survived, why would you return them

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Speaker 1: to their home country free of any charge. Wouldn't you

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Speaker 1: bring them here to the United States to face trial

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Speaker 1: or it?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 1: So this is part of the thing, which you know,

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Speaker 1: and this is where my media kind of critique comes in.

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Speaker 1: Like that story about the release and about those captured prisons,

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Speaker 1: it was nowhere. I mean, it was I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, bottom of the fold A four or whatever.

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Speaker 1: New York Times, like, barely anybody was really talking about

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Speaker 1: this because I don't think that they're putting the pieces together.

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Speaker 1: And look, Ryan and I are not the first people

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Speaker 1: to hear this about what's happening in town, and I

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Speaker 1: do want to give credit. There are other kind of

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Speaker 1: national security reporters who have reported much of the same

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Speaker 1: types of dynamic, but it is not being taken seriously

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Speaker 1: to the level that I think it should be. During Iran,

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Speaker 1: as I said, there was a full on there was

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Speaker 1: a genuine discourse in the country around this. This is

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Speaker 1: just happening, and they're saying it out loud, but nobody

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Speaker 1: seems to like want to believe that this is actually

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Speaker 1: going to happen. I'm at a point where unless we

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Speaker 1: get some sort of Zelenski style reverse, which again very possible,

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Speaker 1: this this is gonna happen as of right now.

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Speaker 8: So, Sager, I'm curious, how much of this do you

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Speaker 8: think if internally they know that fentanyl isn't coming from Venezuela.

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Speaker 8: So that's sort of a BS pretext for all of this,

435
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 8: if you know, behind the scenes, Maduro is basically offering

436
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,719
Speaker 8: them minerals oil offering to cut relations with US adversaries,

437
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 8: whatever else the case may be. If that can't really

438
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 8: be the logic in terms of going after the resources,

439
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 8: Like what is the split on this being about the

440
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 8: resources and regime change versus just being sort of like

441
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 8: a pure ideological project that guys like Marco Rubio have

442
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 8: wanted to do for years and years and years, and

443
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 8: so they're just hell bent on doing it regardless of

444
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 8: what else is on the table.

445
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question, Stephen Miller is definitely or sorry, Marco

446
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: Rubio is in that ladder camp, right, He is the

447
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: ideological He's been trying to do this since the day

448
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: he came in. Now, the rest of them are kind of,

449
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 1: you know, a little bit all over the place. And

450
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: I will say, you know Pambondi, Susie Wiles, all these

451
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: other Floridians, they're more ideologically, more aligned with Marco Rubio.

452
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: Trump was formally firmly in the resource camp. That's all

453
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: he particularly cared about. He's also he's the person he

454
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 1: hates drugs, Like any mention of drugs. Rubio can hang

455
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: his hat on the twenty twenty indictment around Maduro.

456
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 8: Well, you would think though, with somebody like Trump, like,

457
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 8: you know, I'm the I'm the deal maker. You know,

458
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 8: I can make deals with anybody. You would think he

459
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 8: would lean in that direction, right of Maduro's making me

460
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 8: a great offer whatever, and we like, that's what we

461
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 8: were hoping. So just Mark or Rubio, just that influential or.

462
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean this is part of the Ryan

463
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: you can talk to this. People are not like he's

464
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: the most powerful man in national security since Henry Kissinger,

465
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: Like it is almost no American parallel in modern history.

466
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:58,479
Speaker 7: It's it's really interesting.

467
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 6: We thought when u Bo was put in that job

468
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 6: that he would be a marginal figure and boxed out

469
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 6: and that Trump would get rid of him by the

470
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 6: time his daughter was ready to run for Florida Senate.

471
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 6: In instead, he has you know, played the palace intrigue

472
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 6: game quite effectively. We report in this story that there's

473
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 6: effectively what what people internally call a gang of five

474
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 6: uh that run foreign policy, which is entirely unusual because

475
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 6: you know, there's there's an entire national security and foreign

476
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 6: policy apparatus that has been set up over decades and

477
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 6: Trump is basically you know, reorganized it. And so this

478
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 6: this gang of five is Susie Wiles, the chief of staff,

479
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 6: and these are the people. These are basically five people

480
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 6: that run foreign policy. Susie Wiles the chief of Staff,

481
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 6: Stephen Miller the deputy chief of Staff, then Witt Witkoff,

482
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 6: uh Marco, Marco Rubio, and who is the Who's who's

483
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 6: even the fifth person?

484
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 7: Those are the.

485
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 5: Vans with Jade vans.

486
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, which is also like unusual but not necessarily surprising.

487
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 6: But that's not certainly Kamala Harris wasn't in any you know,

488
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 6: if there would have been a gang of five advided

489
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 6: and she wouldn't have been in it. So those five

490
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 6: on the outs are basically everybody else kind of fighting

491
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 6: fighting their way in. And so then it just becomes

492
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 6: this real game of intrigue inside the administration for who

493
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 6: can talk to Trump last and what arguments they can make.

494
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 6: And also the Florida Hawks believe that if they can

495
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 6: topple Venezuela, that Cuba follows, Yeah, like the verse domino

496
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 6: theory that they've been working on since the seventies.

497
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just to explain a little bit more in

498
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: the National Security Council thing, one of the reasons why

499
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: you really want an independent national security advisor is their

500
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: job is to kind of be an advocate for the

501
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: president to get as many different viewpoints as possible. Now,

502
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: it's been corrupted obviously many times in the past, but

503
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: theoretically the job of the National Security advisor is to

504
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: convene something called the Principal's Committee, where you take options

505
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: from the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, Secretary

506
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: of Homeland Secure and then you say, okay, we need

507
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: a hawkish option, we need a medium option, we need

508
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: a ladder option. The thing is is that Rubio as

509
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: an ideological actor and the Secretary of State kind of

510
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: had two different prongs at his disposal. He can control

511
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: the information that's even getting to the President's desk, and

512
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: he gets to put the information in there, right, And

513
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: so there's been a bit of a breakdown in how

514
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: the normal process is supposed to work, which explains so

515
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: much of Trump's movement in this direction. And there's just

516
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: a variety of like political convenience inside the ADMIN at

517
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: the same time. And so that's why I genuinely think

518
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: this is much closer to happening than Iran.

519
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 2: And we got very close well, because who's on the

520
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 2: other side.

521
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 7: Right, That's what I'm saying.

522
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: I mean, Bran, you had warring factions and here you've

523
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: got a like alliance. I mean, the innovation of making

524
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: it about you know, some supposed war on drugs, like

525
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 2: literal war on drugs, not the other type that we've

526
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: been having for decades. That seems to have brought all

527
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: of the factions together, and also so by the way,

528
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 2: seems to have sold by and large to the grossroots

529
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: MAGA base, especially in the opposite in the in the

530
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 2: absence of an opposition party to make the case and

531
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: you know, press the case in the media that this

532
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 2: is absolute insanity on every level. I mean, I find

533
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: the connect between the domestic crackdown and the powers there,

534
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 2: and the you know, continued like war on terror style

535
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 2: expansion of the military industrial complex, and the regime change wars,

536
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 2: like all of those pieces together I find to be

537
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: absolutely terrifying. And you're right, I'm pulling my hair out

538
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: that we you know that that isn't the national conversation.

539
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 2: It's not coming from Democrats. You know, there is an

540
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: allowed MAGA faction that's opposing any of this. The decision

541
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 2: to make this like somehow about drugs, even though it's preposterous,

542
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 2: seems to have really worked. It worked to get everybody

543
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: on board.

544
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: It's very it's very important to just you know, last

545
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: thing before I have to jump as mister dad daycare

546
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: is that that is the central part and kind of

547
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: the political genius is it's just drugs. And I don't

548
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: know why people don't question this stuff because even aside

549
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: from Ryan and I's report, which is current, but before that, guys,

550
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: I mean from the day one, Crystalill you remember this,

551
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, look at DEA statistics. It took

552
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: me five minutes, right, It's not hard like you can

553
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: do a chat hept or a Google search to go

554
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: look at DEA analysis. I mean, by the way, you know,

555
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: one of the sources I spoke to, it's it doesn't

556
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: take a genius to say the absolute vast majority and

557
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying ninety nine percent it's from Mexico with precursors

558
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: from China. You don't even need to believe me. Go

559
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: look at previous statements from these administration and previous administrations

560
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: about fentanyl. Like fentanyl is a very specific substance which

561
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: has been obviously poisoning Americans. We have a long standing

562
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: understanding of the supply chain and where it comes from.

563
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: Venezuela was not even tertiary to the comver station until

564
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: these recent strikes.

565
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 6: I really tried this earlier with Canada. Trump, Yes, Canada,

566
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 6: because fentanyl was coming through. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.

567
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: One last one, last side note on all of this.

568
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: I was reading yesterday. You know, one of the people

569
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: that was randomly murdered in the Caribbean was a Trinidadian fisherman.

570
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: And there's a big, very disturbing article in the New

571
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: York Times about how in these areas of Trinidad, like

572
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: random charred dead bodies are now washing up on the

573
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: coast and the locals are like, what the fuck is happening.

574
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: And yet even though every other Caribbean nation has said

575
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: we oppose these, you know, random assassination assassinations in the Caribbean,

576
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister of Trinidad has not and appears to

577
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: be supportive. And it could be a very important military

578
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: staging ground for you know, the future operation in Venezuela.

579
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that Trinidad Tobago is actually one

580
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: of the destinations for some of these boats who look

581
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: some of these boats actually may be carrying drugs. But

582
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: one of the things that Ryan and I and by

583
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: the way, this actually backs up what Ran Paul and

584
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: others have said about this, who will presumably are read

585
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: in like at least to a limited extent as well,

586
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: is that many of the drugs, if they're aboard the boats,

587
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of evidence they were coming here.

588
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: They're more likely heading to Trinidad and Tobago, which could

589
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: be a way station to Europe because remember, cocaine is

590
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: much more expensive in Europe, and in particular the Holy

591
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: Grail is Australia.

592
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 5: So for a lot of these drug traffickers.

593
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,479
Speaker 1: The second part is, don't forget there are a lot

594
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: of American tourists who go to the Bahamas and you

595
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: go all over the Caribbean who like to buy cocaine,

596
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: and so in a lot of ways, actually that's where

597
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: probably some of these drugs actually are headed, if they

598
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: are drugs. But the one thing we can also say

599
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: is that there is no current evidence that there's some

600
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: mass fentanyl operation you know, industrial breaking bad style vats

601
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: of chemical, you know, engineers and others cooking this stuff up.

602
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: That does exist, but it's in a country called Mexico,

603
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: and that is not what we are being told about, right,

604
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: there's no regime change that's being mounted on that ground.

605
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, I can, I can reach into my first book

606
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 6: on this. Like the trafficking from South America into the

607
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 6: United States used to go through the Caribbean in like

608
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 6: the nineteen seventies. Yeah, yeah, seventies, and as in George

609
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 6: hw Bush, you really cracked down on that and he

610
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 6: brought the hammer down on the Caribbean. Didn't have to

611
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 6: you know, launch air strikes from the air. But what

612
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 6: it did is that that that's that's when trafficking moved

613
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 6: up through Mexico. So drugs that are coming from South

614
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 6: America into the into the United States are are coming

615
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 6: through the Mexican US border.

616
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 7: Like that that ninety nine percent.

617
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 6: Like the idea that you would put them in a boat,

618
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 6: take them to the Caribbean, put them in another boat,

619
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 6: and then take them to Florida, Like that's why would

620
00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 6: you do that when you can just run it?

621
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: Know you have this, we have NAFTA, We have millions

622
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: of trucks a month. Yeah, and now we have a

623
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: government shutdown. Like you think that, Yeah, go ahead.

624
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 6: On a human level when you just when when people

625
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 6: keep saying, you know, on Twitter, you'll say, look look

626
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 6: at this boat that probably did have drugs on it, Like,

627
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 6: who do you think is piloting these ship? Let's say

628
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 6: it is a drunk. Let's say there is cocaine on

629
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 6: this thing and it's taking it somewhere. Who who do

630
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 6: you think the cartels are putting on that they're seeing

631
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 6: random desperate people, desperate people that they are many people

632
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 6: who they're forcing to do it. This is not a

633
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 6: put it put something out on Facebook, marketplace or correct.

634
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: But it's not the Kingpin. It's not El Trapo on there,

635
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: little dinghy.

636
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like you're doing this either we have some

637
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 6: leverage over you or we're going to commit violence against

638
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 6: you or your family if you don't do this. And

639
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 6: if you do it, you get a hundred bucks or whatever.

640
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 6: But these are just these are highly disposed of people.

641
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 6: Like can you imagine if we just had people at

642
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 6: the border and you could scan the drug mules the

643
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 6: women who like have to you know, swallow you know,

644
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 6: the the drugs, and then and we just like if

645
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 6: if if they happen to have drugs, you just snipered

646
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 6: them right there, and then you'd have people on Twitter.

647
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: But well, don't look at them any ideas, Ryan, Please

648
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 3: don't get them an it.

649
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: Does look like, well, they're announced. I mean, that's what

650
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: Trump is announcing, that they have that they want to do,

651
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: and that they have the power to do. Ryan scenario

652
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 2: like literally, I mean, you almost can't come up with

653
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: a scenario that's too preposterous for these people to, you know,

654
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: to contemplate and put into action. So I know Ryan

655
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: and Sager, I know both of you guys got a jump. Ryan,

656
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: do you have time just really quick to break down

657
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: this government shut down news that you were taking a

658
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: look at.

659
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: It's your show, It's all of ours, it's all of ours.

660
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: All right, I'll send pictures of Pe all right, Yes, gone, all.

661
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: Right, please do by Zager? Go ahead, Ryan, all right?

662
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 6: Yes, So yesterday Jason Smith, the chairman of the Ways House,

663
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 6: Ways and Means Committee, was on Bloomberg TV. And I

664
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 6: don't know if if we have that mirror article that

665
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 6: we can put up with which we can get his

666
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 6: exact quote, but basically what he said was that there's

667
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 6: a lot of talk in Republican circles now of the

668
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 6: way he described it extending the CR through December of

669
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 6: twenty twenty six, and what if you extend the CR,

670
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 6: that's that's the continuing resolution, that's the budget as it was,

671
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 6: that means you keep the ACA subsidies in place through

672
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 6: the midterms of twenty twenty six, to have the ways

673
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 6: and means Chairman saying this on Bloomberg TV is a

674
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 6: is a real signal that Republicans are thinking to themselves,

675
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 6: maybe we just maybe we just like extend these subsidies

676
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 6: because it's a political albatrusts around our next to have

677
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 6: this subsidies go away anyway going into the midterms, Like,

678
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 6: it's not to me. It's always been strange that they've

679
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 6: been stopping Democrats from letting them save themselves. And so

680
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 6: I talked to a source in Democratic Senate leadership and

681
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 6: he said that, yes, that he's. Their sense is that

682
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 6: Republicans believed that Democrats would cave quickly, that this would

683
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 6: be an they've done, and they had reason to believe that.

684
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 6: That's that's been the pattern in the past. You've shut

685
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 6: it down for a couple of days, people get fired,

686
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 6: it's it's chaos. You realize you're not going to win this,

687
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 6: you bring everybody back. Republicans are realizing that Democrats are

688
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 6: much more solidified in their in their position at this point,

689
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 6: and so all all the different calculations that they've made

690
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 6: have turned out to be wrong. And so the sense

691
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 6: that the sense among Democratic leaders is that they actually

692
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 6: that Republicans might actually cave. And so even if Democrats

693
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 6: are wrong about that, the fact that they think that

694
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 6: matters because that will then strengthen their resolve to continue

695
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 6: it with the shutdown, thinking that if we just hold

696
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 6: on a little bit longer, Republicans are going to give

697
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 6: us what we want and if they and so that's

698
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 6: so it is.

699
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 5: It is tilting.

700
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 6: I feel like in the direction of Republicans saying, you

701
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 6: know what, why are we why are we dying on

702
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 6: this hill anyway? Like do we want people's health insurance

703
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 6: prices to double on our watch?

704
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 5: Like what?

705
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: Like what?

706
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 4: Who do?

707
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 6: What do we cares thirty two trillion versus you know,

708
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 6: thirty two point three trillion debt? Like what's the difference

709
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 6: to us? When you know the midterms are coming up?

710
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 11: Right?

711
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: Midterms are coming up? And also, by the way, with

712
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 2: the government shutdown, you know, the holiday season is coming

713
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 2: up people who rely on, you know, on snap benefits

714
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: not getting them starting in November. You know, the longer

715
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: that this thing drives on, the more real world impacts

716
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,479
Speaker 2: that you feel. Well, they're also one thing I wanted

717
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 2: to mention that. So you know, I live in this

718
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: town that has a naval base, Dagger Naval Base, and

719
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 2: a lot of the workers there are not actually furloughed

720
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 2: because it's a quote working capital organization, So they sort

721
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: of sell their services almost like an internal military industrial complex,

722
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: like they compete and they sell services to other branches

723
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 2: of the government, and there's other entities like that within

724
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 2: the federal government. A lot of them actually people don't realize,

725
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 2: and they will be funded basically through the end of October.

726
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,959
Speaker 2: So then in the beginning of November, there's a whole

727
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: nother wave of federal government workers and services that will

728
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 2: stop because a lot of that working capital funded those

729
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: projects will run out of funding at that point and

730
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: they will be out of work as well. So, you know,

731
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: I think they're looking at the polls realizing voters are

732
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 2: blaming Republicans buy and large for the shutdown. Watching Trump's

733
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: approval rating is now like the lowest it's been democrats

734
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 2: approval rating actually is ticked up a bit because people

735
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: see them fighting. They've managed to put healthcare at the

736
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 2: center of the agenda, which is obviously much better issue

737
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: for Democrats than it is for Republicans. And so yeah,

738
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: increasingly the logic looks like, all right, well, I guess

739
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: you know, maybe the least bad political option for Republicans

740
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 2: is to extend these subsidies and also save themselves a heartache.

741
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 2: Of the vast majority of the subsidies go seventy seven

742
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: percent I think go to red states, go to like

743
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 2: you know, it's a disproportionate number of Republican voters too.

744
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 2: So why why don't we just rip off this band aid?

745
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't make sense to me.

746
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 3: And we've got Marjorie Taylor Green to think for all

747
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 3: this don't we need from leading breaking cracks in the

748
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 3: walls here for Republicans on all this healthcare stuff?

749
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 5: Do you think that created any pressure for Republicans?

750
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 6: I think it was more the the miscalculation about these

751
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 6: Democrats rank the Democrats and their willingness to take this

752
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 6: to the so did they leave the Democrats would just

753
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 6: fold under the oh they're giving you know, healthcare to

754
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 6: illegal immigrants or whatever, and Democrats would feel the pressure

755
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 6: right immigration line, or.

756
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 5: I think they would.

757
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 6: I think they thought they would fold over the pain

758
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 6: to federal workers and the and the threats to like

759
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 6: fire and riff a bunch of you know, which.

760
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 8: Is as you guys have pointed out before, it's like

761
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 8: they were already doing that.

762
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 5: Like they were doing that.

763
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 8: They're going to continue to try to rip apart the

764
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 8: federal government to fire as many federal employees as it is.

765
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 6: So Yes, when you operate in a completely lawless, reckless fashion,

766
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 6: you take away the card of you better hold you back.

767
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: It's like crazy, Yeah, where are we with mass layoffs?

768
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 3: Like the mass layoffs were the threat? Like how how

769
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 3: deep into that are we? How many people have been

770
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 3: getting laid off?

771
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 6: I don't have the data on that. Uh, you know,

772
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 6: they're they're doing what they can. Yeah, but I think

773
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 6: that they cut so deep into the bone.

774
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 7: Previously that.

775
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 5: Those stuff seemed more brutal.

776
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 9: Yeah.

777
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: Interesting, All right, Ryan, Well, I know you've got to

778
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: jump to so we'll let you go and Mac and

779
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: Griffin and I can. I have a few more things

780
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 2: I want to say on the shot down you guys

781
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: probably do as well. Ryan, thank you have a good one.

782
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 5: Have a great weeknd Ryan, Right, But.

783
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually, I mean I was going to say,

784
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: I think I also thought the Democrats would cave quickly,

785
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: because that is my experience with Democrats, and I think

786
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 2: they remember there was that reporting at the beginning that

787
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: Schumer was trying to look for some sort of an

788
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 2: off ramp. You know, hey, can we pass like a

789
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: short term cr or you know. The other thing that

790
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 2: I think Ryan and Sager had floated on the show

791
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 2: they did together was like, let's just get to November first,

792
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: and then we can say like, oh, it's too late

793
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: for these Obamacare subsidies. So we tried, and the Republicans

794
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: did in our way. I guess there's nothing we can

795
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 2: do about it. May as well open up the government.

796
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: I think that the leadership was very interested in pursuing

797
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: some week need direction. In fact, I think leadership didn't

798
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: want to do this shutdown at all, and they felt

799
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 2: they have felt the pressure from the Democratic base that's like,

800
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: these are fascists, you cannot fund them, you cannot bend

801
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 2: the knee. You will shut down the government. You will

802
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 2: not capitulate and there would be this again, is something

803
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: I talked to Rocan about yesterday, like there would be

804
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: a mass Democratic base revolt if these people caved to

805
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: the Trump administration. So I don't think so. I mean,

806
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: it's a it's a rare instance where actually there was

807
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 2: some like grassroots democratic, like small d democratic input here

808
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,919
Speaker 2: that I think has completely shaped this entire trajectory from

809
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party perspective.

810
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, I totally agree that does it feels like they

811
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 8: got backed into a corner into doing this.

812
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, and especially because pushing yeah, go ahead, go for back.

813
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, Zra Kliin's been pushing the

814
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 3: shutdown for a while, right, and he was kind of

815
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 3: right in saying, like, if you do it, you got

816
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: to have one really clear demand.

817
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 5: It can't be a kaleidoscope of issues.

818
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: And seems like with the help of Burning and a

819
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 3: few other people, they zeroed it on healthcare.

820
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 5: The Republicans just don't have a good answer for that.

821
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, it's such a direct material thing to

822
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 8: be like everybody's you know, premiums are gonna double, or

823
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 8: everybody's you know, health insurance is going to skyrocket in

824
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 8: the next couple of months if we don't prevent these

825
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 8: these subsidies from going away. So I mean, it's it's

826
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 8: a pretty cut and dry issue. Although like I think

827
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 8: Crystal you or maybe Ryan has made this point before

828
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 8: where I wonder if there is any sort of broader

829
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 8: reckoning within the Democratic Party in terms of Obamacare being

830
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 8: a failure in general, the fact that it needs to

831
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 8: rely on these kinds of subsidies in order to function

832
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 8: at sort of like a bare minimum level. Like, do

833
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 8: you think there's any sort of lane there with the

834
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 8: base or with you know, some faction in the Democratic

835
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 8: Party to like open the door to a conversation about

836
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 8: broader structural change to healthcare in this kind of a moment,

837
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 8: or is it just we're going to save the subsidies

838
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 8: and then you know, move on with that.

839
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 2: I think with the base absolutely, I mean I think

840
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 2: the base is there. Like that Grand Platiner poll that

841
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 2: we saw yesterday, I was like, oh man, you know

842
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 2: everything that we've been because this is what we've been

843
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: saying from the beginning of Trump two point zero is

844
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 2: that the like normy liberal Democratic base has been kind

845
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: of radicalized. You know, they're they're much more now where

846
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: we have been. You know, they see the failures of

847
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 2: the establishment. They're disgusted with leadership and the end, you know,

848
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 2: they're disgusted with people who can't call a genocide a genocide.

849
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 5: And part of that.

850
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 2: Package is, you know, more radical reform to healthcare, which

851
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 2: by the way, has been the policy preference of the

852
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: Democratic base for years at this point. But they are

853
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 2: always persuaded by like, oh, Bernie's not electable. We just

854
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 2: can't do it. We have to be pragmatic, we have

855
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 2: to stop Trump. That all of that calculation appears to

856
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: be out of the window. I mean, you see it

857
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 2: with Zorn's election. You see it with the way Grand

858
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 2: Platner is just wiping the floor with a sitting governor

859
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: comes out of nowhere. And you know, Abdul said strength

860
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: in Michigan and again against another establishment approved candidate. I

861
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: think these are all signs that and this shut down,

862
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 2: the fact that the base forced the hand of Democratic leadership,

863
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 2: It's all very encouraging to me about the way that

864
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 2: the base wants the Democratic Party to be and that

865
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 2: they're not going to be manipulated like sheep the way

866
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: that they were frankly in the past. So now my

867
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: big question is, you know, are there going to be

868
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: like free and fair elections that allow for that transformation

869
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 2: to happen and create a possibility of, you know, taking

870
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 2: the country in a different direction. And maybe now's the

871
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: time to place Debanon talking about Trump twenty twenty eight.

872
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 2: But you know, you have a lot of very troubling

873
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: things that are happening on the election front. They are

874
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 2: openly floating using militarized forces in all fifty states that

875
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: would be there in time for the mid term elections.

876
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: You have an executive order that forces all states, mandates

877
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: all states to send their voter rolls into the DOJ.

878
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: You have people in key positions in the t administration

879
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 2: overseeing this, like you know, elections who are twenty twenty

880
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: stop the steal, complete nut jobs. You have the refusal

881
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 2: to seat at Alita Grijalva by the Speaker of the House.

882
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: And now you have Steve Bannon saying, by the way,

883
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty eight, Trump's not going anywhere. I think

884
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: we should believe them like I don't think. And that's

885
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 2: not without even talking about all the redistricting stuff and

886
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. She's probably got to hand the Republicans

887
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: another maybe as many as twelve seats in the House.

888
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 2: We're gonna have a guest on from Virginia who can

889
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 2: talk about some of the redistricting, like the counter redistricting

890
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 2: efforts in Virginia. But they they are really they're really

891
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 2: going for it, like they are really going for it.

892
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 2: If it's with the Venezuela conversation too, you know, cleaning

893
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: the power just randomly murdered people. Oh, they were terrorists,

894
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 2: they were in Tiva terrors, they were drug terrorists. Do

895
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: we have any evidence? No, But they're gone now, so

896
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: you should be happy.

897
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 5: So we can imagine what you.

898
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 3: Yes exactly, and we can imagine like what that looks

899
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 3: like in a presidential election.

900
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 5: What does that look like for a midterm though I.

901
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: Don't know exactly. I mean, I think part of it could.

902
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 2: So I think the one scenario that Ryan floated is

903
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 2: that now they allow them to go forward more or less,

904
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 2: but then they just don't actually like if there are

905
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 2: subpoenas in the House, they just don't listen to them.

906
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 2: So they effectively just bypass commerce like it doesn't exist,

907
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 2: which is not hard to imagine because they basically already

908
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 2: do that. Right now at the current moment. It's because

909
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: Republicans have just completely capitulated to them. But you could

910
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: see them continuing to just do whatever they want and

911
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: not actually paying attention to any of the legitimate subpoenas

912
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: or investigations that are launched by the House. That's one possibility.

913
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: Another possibility is that they know they're obviously doing all

914
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,919
Speaker 2: the redistricting efforts to try to tilt the playing field,

915
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 2: which would make it so that Democrats have to win

916
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,479
Speaker 2: by something like five points plus in the popular vote,

917
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: so it would have to climb a big hill just

918
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: to be able to win. Another possibility is that they

919
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 2: use some of the tactics they used in the have

920
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 2: been using for years, but ramped up in the last election,

921
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 2: where they kick legitimate people off the voter rules and

922
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 2: you know, target especially minority groups that vote disproportionately for Democrats,

923
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 2: usually black voters, kick them off the voting roles and

924
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 2: so skew the results that way. Another possibility is that they,

925
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: you know, the elections go for where Democrats win the

926
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 2: House and Trump just insists it was all rigged and

927
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 2: that the mail in voting was fraudulent and refuses to

928
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: seat them, and then we're in a standoff. Who's going

929
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: to force them to seat these new members of Congress.

930
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 2: That's why the thing that's happening with Adelita Grijalva I

931
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 2: think is important because you know, Mike Johnson is just

932
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: refusing this woman won her congressionals and he's just refusing

933
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: to seat her. So where's the forcing mechanism for that?

934
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 2: Are the courts going to intervene?

935
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 11: Like?

936
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: How is that all going to go? And then you

937
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: also have this little detail of dominion voting, which is

938
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: you know, they're the makers of voting machines and any

939
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,959
Speaker 2: number of states that were the center of all sorts

940
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 2: of wacko conspiracy theories in twenty twenty, dominion voting is

941
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 2: now owned by a Trump twenty twenty stop to steal Psycho.

942
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: So there is a lot here, nice, There is a

943
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: lot here to be extremely extremely concerned about. Shall we play?

944
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: Shall we play bann In talking about Trump twenty twenty eight.

945
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's get if we're not concerned enough, folks.

946
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 7: Yeah, Well he's going to get a third term.

947
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 5: So Trump twenty eight.

948
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 12: Trump is going to be president in twenty eight, and

949
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 12: people just sort to get accommodated with that.

950
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 7: So what about the twenty second Amendment.

951
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 12: There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, we'll lay

952
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 12: out what the plan is. But there's a plan. And

953
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 12: President Trump will be the president in twenty eight. We

954
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 12: had longer odds in sixteen and longer odds in twenty

955
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 12: four than we got in twenty eight. And President Trump

956
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 12: will be the president United States, and the country needs

957
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 12: him to be president United States. We have to finish

958
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 12: what we started and the way we finish it to Trump,

959
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 12: Trump is a vehicle. I know this will drive you

960
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 12: guys crazy, but he's a vehicle of divine prophetence. He's

961
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 12: an instrument. He's very imperfect. He's not churchy, not particularly religious,

962
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 12: but he's an instrument.

963
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 5: But he's divine will how he's pulled this off. All right.

964
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 5: That's that's the gist of it right there, Crystal. What

965
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 5: do we make of that?

966
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: I mean, implement divine providence and they and they get

967
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: mad when we call it a cult, you know, I

968
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: mean the audacity of these people. And here's the thing

969
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 2: I saw. I saw someone on Twitter. I think it

970
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 2: was Wegel, though I don't want to like blame him

971
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: if it wasn't Wegel, But I think it was Wegel

972
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: who was like, well, listen, if democrats can't beat an

973
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 2: eighty some year old Trump in twenty twenty eight, like,

974
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 2: just wrap it up, call it quits, you don't deserve

975
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: to exist anyway. But that assumes that elections again are

976
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 2: like a thing and not just. And when I say that,

977
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 2: I don't mean that there won't be the trappings of

978
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 2: divid There's the trappings of democracy in Russia, there's the

979
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 2: trappings of democracy, and Hungary there's the trappings of democracy

980
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 2: in Turkey. But I'm talking about a more or less

981
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 2: even playing field where voters actually get to express their

982
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 2: preferences and may the greater man or you know, the

983
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 2: better man or woman win. I think we're very unlikely

984
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 2: to have that in twenty twenty eight, and certainly not

985
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 2: when they're talking like this is God's, you know, divine

986
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 2: will to have this man occupied the White House until

987
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 2: he strokes out My question.

988
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 5: From Mac, then, Mac, what do you think?

989
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 3: Like you think you think that even like one percent

990
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 3: of the people that support Trump now would not support

991
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 3: him running again in twenty twenty eight, will he have

992
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 3: the same exact coalition?

993
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, like Crystal said at that point, if

994
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 8: they're actually making a play for twenty twenty eight, it

995
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 8: almost doesn't really matter. Like if he has a lock

996
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 8: on thirty percent of his base or whatever, then that

997
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 8: might be enough to pull it off. I guess another

998
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 8: thought that I had watching that banning clip is, I'm

999
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 8: you know, we've we've covered on the show a few times,

1000
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 8: like some of Trump's health related stuff, his hands bruising up,

1001
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 8: his ankles are extremely swollen, he has this this reported

1002
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 8: heart thing or whatever. And so I'm like, as a

1003
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 8: broader fascist project that they're trying to build here and

1004
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 8: dismantling the you know, sort of facade of democracy that

1005
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 8: we have in this country, Like, is this so in

1006
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 8: a cultish way centered on Trump that they don't even

1007
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 8: have a backup plan to carry on this project in

1008
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 8: twenty twenty eight, Like it's gonna be like a borderline, hey,

1009
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 8: borderline like on death's door Donald Trump in twenty thirty.

1010
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 8: Who's running this project still? I mean, is that the plan?

1011
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 8: Like if Trump were to die, does this all this

1012
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 8: fall apart? Or like it doesn't seem like they really

1013
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 8: have a plan outside of Trump.

1014
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 5: What do you think one hundred percent.

1015
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,959
Speaker 3: I mean we I mean the JD Vance vibe check

1016
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 3: he's been not passing. People have been saying that on

1017
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 3: both sides of the spectrum. No, yeah, I mean all

1018
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 3: this does kind of go with him, which means that

1019
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 3: you just keep putting out fake videos of him.

1020
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 5: This administration's already shown that they're willing to post.

1021
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 3: Any fake bullshit like and lies, memes, just completely fabricated

1022
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 3: video evidence. So like what's to stop Trump from like

1023
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 3: being half dead in a bed and then just posting

1024
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 3: videos of him like walking around doing the dance. Like

1025
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 3: I think there's one hundred percent of chance that we

1026
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 3: would see something like that in twenty twenty eight, you know,

1027
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 3: a Biden basement strategy combined with AI.

1028
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, imagine if Biden had had the AI that we

1029
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 8: have today, he could have he could have like barnstormed

1030
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 8: the country Ville virtual tours.

1031
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 2: I don't think it's quite there yet, Like it's still

1032
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 2: in a little bit of the Uncanny Valley yeah zone,

1033
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 2: But very likely by the time you get to twenty

1034
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: twenty eight, they will have figured it out enough that

1035
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: we could legitimately be fooled by it. And certainly there's

1036
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 2: Trump is so distinctive, and there's enough of his comments

1037
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 2: on record that it wouldn't be hard to like come

1038
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: up with things that he's allegedly said. I mean, this

1039
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 2: stuff sounds so fucking insane, but every day I read

1040
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 2: some other news article that is equally, if not more

1041
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 2: insane than the crazy things I could come up with

1042
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 2: my head. So it's your question of whether or not

1043
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 2: this whole thing falls apart without Trump. I am of

1044
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: two minds about it. Okay, Number one, I think Trump

1045
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 2: is the kind of singular figure I used to kind

1046
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 2: of reject that. I used to kind of reject that,

1047
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 2: but now I do think the combination of his celebrity,

1048
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 2: his comedic stylings, his charisma, his unique pull on the culture,

1049
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: like this you know, almost reptilian instinct that he has

1050
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: for pushing society's buttons and keeping his you know name

1051
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 2: in the news constantly and like keeping us all just

1052
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 2: agitated about him all the time. Like I do think

1053
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 2: he is a sort of singular figure. However, we have

1054
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: to look around the world, like We're not the only

1055
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: country that's backsliding in democracy. We're not the only country

1056
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 2: that is seeing the rise of far right fascist movements

1057
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: and there's a reason for that. It's because, you know,

1058
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 2: you've had a failure of the you know, the ancien regime,

1059
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 2: the neoliberal order which fits has failed to deliver for

1060
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 2: people materially, which has turned on a wealth pump that

1061
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: has you know, miserated the working class and continues to

1062
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 2: pump more and more wealth into the hands of a few.

1063
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 2: And you know, State Rep. Sam Marusol has joined us. Now,

1064
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 2: just finish my rant here about the wealth pump and inequality,

1065
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 2: and then we'll we'll chat with you about what's going

1066
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 2: on Virginia.

1067
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 7: But welcome, great to have you, Thank you so much

1068
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 7: for having me.

1069
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. So we're just talking about whether, if

1070
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 2: you know, when Trump is no longer with us, whether

1071
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: the Maga cult coalition is able to survive. And I

1072
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 2: was saying, on the one hand, I think singular. On

1073
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 2: the other hand, we have to recognize the underlying dynamics

1074
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 2: that brought us to the place where a large swath

1075
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 2: of the American public is open to effectively a fascist movement.

1076
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 2: And you know, I think wealth inequality is at the

1077
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 2: center of that. And mac and Griffin, you guys are

1078
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 2: mentioning AI like AI is only going to consolidate even

1079
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 2: more extraordinary powers and in the hands of a few,

1080
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 2: and money and wealth in the hands of the few,

1081
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 2: and to absolutely a misery. I mean, their goal is

1082
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 2: to put to make human labor irrelevant. So so you know,

1083
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 2: I don't think we like there's even with Trump gone.

1084
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 2: If we don't respond in a way that's necessary and

1085
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: offer an alternative vision and allow people to share and

1086
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 2: you know, broadly in prosperity, then we are definitely not

1087
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 2: going to be out of the woods. So with that

1088
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 2: being said, rustle guys, just so you you know a

1089
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 2: little bit of the background, allow you to introduce yourself

1090
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 2: as well. He is a long time a state representative

1091
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 2: in Virginia and the Virginia House of Delegates. Also happens

1092
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,760
Speaker 2: to be Palsadeni American has been attacked by prominent Virginia

1093
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 2: Democratic candidates and elected officials for his views and his

1094
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 2: opposition to genocide. He is one of two Muscle members

1095
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 2: of the Virginia Legislature. And you know, it's just a

1096
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 2: really interesting, I think, thoughtful person and so Sam, great

1097
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 2: to see you.

1098
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, great to be with you. Thanks so much for

1099
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 7: having me. Crystal.

1100
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course I don't know if you remember, but

1101
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure we talked back in twenty ten when

1102
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 2: I was running for Congress and you had just run

1103
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight. Yeah, and probably I'm sure

1104
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 2: I asked you for advice. I probably also asked you

1105
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 2: for money. But in any case, it's nice to be

1106
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 2: nice to be reconnected with you. And there's a lot

1107
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about. But the first thing is,

1108
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:26,399
Speaker 2: I just saw this news that the Virginia Democrats, Okay,

1109
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 2: I think of jumping into the you know, the redistricting

1110
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 2: wars and you know, trying to redraw the Virginia state

1111
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 2: map to add a couple more likely Democratic seats. One

1112
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 2: of them would actually be in the area where I

1113
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 2: live here in King George County. But in any case, Sam,

1114
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 2: can you break down for us is what is going

1115
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 2: on here in your.

1116
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 9: View on it?

1117
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 10: Yeah, I was one of the few who actually voted

1118
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 10: for redistricting reform because I believe that there needs to

1119
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 10: be a fair process. I believe that we should try

1120
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 10: to remove as much as possible the artisanship.

1121
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 5: Out of it.

1122
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 10: The reality, though, is that Trump has ordered these especially

1123
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 10: Republicans state legislators to redraw the maps.

1124
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 7: So this is this is cheating, and it's being done

1125
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 7: mid cycle.

1126
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 10: S breaking all the rules as usual, and what we

1127
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 10: need to be able to do is to keep our

1128
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 10: options open. The way it works technically in Virginia is

1129
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 10: Virginia needs to make a decision or pass a resolution

1130
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 10: before an election. We have an election in about ten

1131
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 10: days and it's a long process, but the end of

1132
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 10: that process has a referendum going to Virginia voters. So

1133
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 10: all we're doing is a procedural motion that allows us

1134
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 10: to maybe if things continue to get out of hand,

1135
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 10: allow for Virginia voters to decide what we should do.

1136
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: How how amenable are your Democratic colleagues to this move?

1137
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:56,959
Speaker 2: Is anyone squeamish about it? Or is everyone like, listen,

1138
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: we got to fight fight fire with fire.

1139
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 10: Look, the reality is when Trump ordered Texas and now

1140
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 10: other legislatures we saw in North Carolina, I just completed

1141
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 10: theirs to break the rules and cheat and say we're

1142
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 10: going to redraw the maps ahead of the twenty twenty

1143
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 10: six mid term elections. What unfortunately, that's just thrown all

1144
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 10: the rules out the window. And so in Virginia, what

1145
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 10: we have said is we're not drawing maps next week.

1146
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 10: We're not doing that in the short term because we

1147
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 10: can't constitutionally. But what we can do is procedurally keep

1148
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 10: our options open. And so what we have to have

1149
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 10: is a vote before the election, a vote after the

1150
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 10: election with the new legislature, and then that sends a

1151
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 10: referendum in Virginia.

1152
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 7: Voters decide what should we do about this moving forward? Gotcha?

1153
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:44,919
Speaker 2: So it has to go to the voters before any

1154
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 2: maps can really be redrawn. I'd love for you to

1155
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about you know, you represent Roanoke,

1156
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 2: which for people who don't know, is like in the

1157
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 2: southwestern part of the state, and you know, part of Appalachia,

1158
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 2: so you're not, you know, up in northern Virginia. I

1159
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 2: think it gives you a bit of a union perspective.

1160
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 2: What are you seeing in terms of how voters are

1161
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: feeling about this administration, how they're feeling out of su Virginia.

1162
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 2: You have an election everybody in Virginia, you know, the

1163
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 2: governor's races this year as well. How are people feeling

1164
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 2: about the state of the country right now?

1165
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 10: Look, being the only Democratic legislator in the western half

1166
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 10: of the state, this little blue dot and the sea

1167
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 10: have read.

1168
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 7: The reality is I think that there are a lot

1169
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 7: of folks who don't know the.

1170
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 10: Difference between when President Obama was in office, then President Trump,

1171
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 10: the President Biden.

1172
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 7: Now back to Trump.

1173
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 10: We have been in a place to what you were

1174
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 10: saying just before I came on about the socioeconomic disconnect.

1175
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,439
Speaker 10: We left so many people behind. Really, about forty years

1176
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 10: ago began the trend in earnest in this area with NAFTA,

1177
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 10: where we said, hey, we're going to outsource all these jobs,

1178
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 10: but with no plan to make sure that people have

1179
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 10: an economic future. And so that's what, in my opinion,

1180
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 10: that what is given birth to Trump in twenty fifteen,

1181
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 10: when this guy came down an escalator and says, you

1182
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 10: know why your life stinks, it's because of those Mexicans,

1183
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 10: the rapists, the Muslims, the blacks, he said, all these

1184
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 10: terrible things. He used identity politics because people were economically

1185
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 10: frustrated and needed to place it somewhere and democracy to

1186
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 10: take that narrative back.

1187
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: How much have you seen, you know, when you you

1188
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 2: ran for Congress in two thousand and eight, you know,

1189
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: in an Appalachian district, performed very well, but at that point,

1190
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 2: the partisan slide in Appalachia had really sat in and

1191
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: it was just too big of a hill to climb.

1192
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 2: And so I'm curious you've had a front row seat

1193
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 2: to watching the partisan hardening of rural Appalachian voters into

1194
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 2: the Republican Party, and you know, like, are they just

1195
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 2: gone for good? What would be some of the direction

1196
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 2: you would take the Democratic Party in that would make

1197
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 2: it so that, hey, in the future, maybe you could

1198
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 2: run for that Appalachian congressional district and have a shot

1199
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 2: at it and not be just, you know, totally destroy

1200
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 2: down to the gates because you happen to have the

1201
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 2: D by your name.

1202
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 10: Look, you know, if a Palestinian Muslim can get elected

1203
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 10: in Appalachia, I think that there's a place for all

1204
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 10: of us at the table.

1205
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 7: But we have to think generationally here.

1206
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 10: There's got to be a long term conversation and the

1207
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 10: reality is is it begins with building relationships. We've got

1208
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 10: to go back and do deep canvassing, get back into

1209
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 10: these neighborhoods, and people need to believe that the Democratic

1210
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 10: brand is for them. And what I like to describe

1211
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 10: to folks is it's not a Democratic party. We are

1212
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 10: a coalition of many factions, and our faction that believes

1213
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 10: that sales to economics has a place prominent place in

1214
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 10: this conversation. People deserve to be inspired by a vision

1215
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 10: for their future and the future of their children, and

1216
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 10: we just haven't given them that. We've been playing into

1217
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 10: their Republican narrative for too long. There's absolutely a play

1218
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 10: here in Appalachia, in these rural parts, but we've got

1219
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 10: to put the elbow grease into it.

1220
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 2: So, Sam, you had the audacity to oppose genocide. I

1221
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 2: wouldn't think that that would be a controversial position, but

1222
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 2: apparently among some it is.

1223
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 5: How has that?

1224
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 2: What is the response to your position there been?

1225
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 7: Well, we've been through the gamut.

1226
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 10: Right from two years ago when we were saying, well,

1227
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 10: I mean, how could they be attacking these hospitals, People

1228
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 10: would say, oh, Israel would never attack hospitals, and now

1229
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 10: almost every hospital has been attacked, every university has been obliterated.

1230
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 10: There's a genocide that we are funding with our own

1231
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 10: tax dollars. And I think people are frustrated, and there's

1232
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 10: a thread and you're seeing it. I'm sure on the

1233
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 10: right and the left of people saying why are our

1234
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 10: tax dollars going there. I think if you take a

1235
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 10: Republican and you ask them, you know, America first or

1236
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 10: Israel first, I think their heads will explode because they

1237
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 10: don't know exactly how to answer that many times. But

1238
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 10: if we we can, you know, reclaim the narrative and say, look,

1239
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 10: this is one of the darkest moments in human history,

1240
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 10: to watch a genocide play out piece by piece. When

1241
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 10: is never again really mean never again? And I will

1242
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 10: tell you that in my lifetime, nothing has brought the

1243
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 10: Jewish community closer together to the pro Palestinian community than

1244
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 10: this genocide. It has been a silver line because on

1245
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 10: the front line of every single one of these protests

1246
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:29,439
Speaker 10: have been one of my Jewish brothers and sisters saying

1247
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 10: this does not define me, This does not make up

1248
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 10: who I am.

1249
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 2: What have you made of the you know, the failures

1250
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 2: on the democratic side. You know, Democrats are supposed to

1251
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 2: be these humanitarians, supposed to believe in international law, supposed

1252
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 2: to believe in human rights. And I feel like, belatedly

1253
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 2: now you start to see a little bit of a shift.

1254
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 2: But you know, we've watched these you know, under the

1255
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 2: Biden administration, we were funding these horrors. You've had very

1256
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 2: very few members of Congress who are willing to call

1257
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 2: it a genocide. And Abigail Spanberger, who's the Democratic nominee

1258
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 2: for governor in Virginia, was critical of some of the

1259
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 2: comments that you made.

1260
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 10: Well, look, I have tried to clarify with folks that

1261
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 10: it's not Judaism, it's not our Jewish brother and sisters.

1262
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 10: This is a political supremacist ideology called Zionism, and Zionism

1263
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 10: wants to destroy everything in its way to get what

1264
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 10: it wants. And we know that the APAC network as

1265
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 10: well as a variety of other funders are coming in

1266
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 10: and pushing this on us. And so when we can

1267
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 10: kind of number one, even like in defense of Judaism,

1268
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 10: that this is a political supremacist ideology that's been around

1269
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:46,959
Speaker 10: over the past hundred years, that has kind of taken

1270
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 10: over saying this is really the enemy, it's not just

1271
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 10: net and Yahoo's war that we've got to push back

1272
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,439
Speaker 10: against it. It begins to crystallize things for folks because

1273
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 10: they framed it as though it's Jews versus Muslims, or

1274
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 10: and forget getting that most of the Arabs in America

1275
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 10: are Christian, but it's not a religious war. It is

1276
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 10: wanting to steal land and eradicated people as they try

1277
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 10: to have this conquest. Right now, we are seeing that

1278
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 10: Gaza is the litmus test if you're running for higher office,

1279
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 10: for US Senate, for US president, where were you during

1280
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 10: the darkest moment in modern history? Where are you on

1281
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 10: this Zionist propaganda and ideology that is wanting to control

1282
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 10: our politics.

1283
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 7: I'm glad we're having that conversation Griffin and Mack.

1284
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 2: You guys got anything?

1285
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean to your point earlier, it seems like

1286
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 8: it's a unique opportunity here where you know, you can

1287
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 8: make a right wing case against continued support funding Arming,

1288
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 8: giving diplomatic cover to Israel to the right, and you

1289
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 8: can also make it to the left, whether it's from

1290
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 8: the America First angle or it's from a more humanitarian

1291
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 8: centered angle. And also in terms of the foreign influence

1292
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 8: pedaling and organizations like APAK, it does seem like it's

1293
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 8: a unique opportunity to have a broad coalition on what

1294
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 8: I think many people used to think of as a

1295
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 8: super divisive issue amongst the voting base. So where do

1296
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 8: you think that this could go in a state like Virginia.

1297
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 8: Do you think there's an opportunity there across the state

1298
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 8: to build some sort of a cross coalition there at

1299
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 8: the upper levels or is it mostly just consolidated amongst

1300
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 8: the establishments of both parties right now?

1301
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 10: Well, there's clearly a thread, and we have seen a

1302
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 10: variety of folks on the right who have taken advantage

1303
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 10: of the opportunity to kind of break the chains themselves.

1304
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 10: I wish that they would talk kindly about a variety

1305
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 10: of other issues that we care about.

1306
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 7: But more importantly for us is to not just stand.

1307
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 10: In solidarity with Palestinians, you know, as a Palestinian American.

1308
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,959
Speaker 10: What we want to show is that this is all interconnected.

1309
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 10: And if you are against the military industrial complex, if

1310
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 10: you are against war, if you are an environmental list,

1311
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,000
Speaker 10: if you believe that we shouldn't have paid for American

1312
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 10: bombs to drop over six times the number the amount

1313
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 10: of bombs that we dropped on Nagasaki, in Hiroshima, on

1314
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 10: this little guys the strip, then you can see that

1315
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 10: there's a thread here that's interconnected in the progressive movement,

1316
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 10: where you have you know, the Israeli military training American

1317
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 10: police officers, where You've got so much of this that's

1318
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 10: got to be broken if we're going to have a

1319
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 10: true progressive movement, if we're going to talk about lives mattering,

1320
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 10: and then we've got to make sure that we're coming

1321
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 10: together as not just a in solidarity with all these movements,

1322
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 10: but to realize it's all one movement as we move forward.

1323
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 2: And representatives, Well, another thing that we hear a lot

1324
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 2: is like, well, you should just you know, Americans don't

1325
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 2: really care about foreign policy. We should just focus on

1326
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 2: bread and butter economic issues. What is your response to that,

1327
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 2: Because my experience has been that people actually connect these

1328
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 2: things quite a lot. First of all, they're just horrified

1329
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 2: morally to be involved in all at all in the

1330
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 2: slaughter that they see on their their timelines and their

1331
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:16,600
Speaker 2: news feeds every single day. And second of all, they're like,

1332
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 2: wait a second, we have a lot of problems here

1333
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 2: at home. You know, we're about to see these subsidies

1334
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 2: expire for the ACA. People's premiums are going to skyrocket.

1335
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 2: Rural hospitals probably in areas like yours, are going to

1336
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 2: be closing, and we're shipping all of this money routinely

1337
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 2: to the people who are bombing babies like what is

1338
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 2: happening here? So you described as a litmus test issue.

1339
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 2: I've also seen it be much more important to the

1340
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 2: election of Donald Trump, to the successives or on Mom Donnie,

1341
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 2: to a lot of these Democratic primaries that are playing out.

1342
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:50,520
Speaker 2: I've seen it be much more central to voters' calculations

1343
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 2: than perhaps the polls would really suggest. And certainly that

1344
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:53,839
Speaker 2: the establishment thinks.

1345
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,440
Speaker 10: Thirty billion dollars plus we have sent during this genocide

1346
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 10: that really opens eye right away. People are saying, man,

1347
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 10: what would that pay for? You pay for a whole

1348
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 10: variety of things, not only completely ending homelessness in America,

1349
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 10: but doing things like being able to make sure we've

1350
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 10: got all of our kids. As I'm the chair of

1351
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 10: education here in Virginia, and we've got a bill that

1352
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 10: comes through every year that I hate not being able

1353
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 10: to fund, which is free meals for all kids right

1354
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 10: in school. So we've got so many priorities, and here

1355
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 10: we are feeding into the military industrial complex. And when

1356
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,680
Speaker 10: you tie it back in, look, it's I think it's

1357
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 10: very fair for people to ask the question, like, what's

1358
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 10: in it for me?

1359
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 7: Why does this matter to me?

1360
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,759
Speaker 10: There's so many problems in this world, and in this case,

1361
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 10: when you've got our free speech being squashed by thesignist movement,

1362
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 10: when you've got thirty billion dollars plus that has gone

1363
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 10: to this genocide, when you have this authoritarian regime it's

1364
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:56,600
Speaker 10: working hand in hand with war criminals like Nanyahu and

1365
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 10: some others. It clearly has an impact on us, and

1366
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 10: we can't divorce it. And so we've got to say, look,

1367
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 10: this is part of a broader movement. Whether we're sending

1368
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:14,759
Speaker 10: twenty billion dollars to Argentina to a right wing authoritarian down.

1369
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 2: There, it's forty now.

1370
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 7: Even worse, forty billion dollars.

1371
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 10: The reality is is we've got our priorities that we've

1372
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,720
Speaker 10: got to figure out here in Virginia, but certainly in

1373
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 10: the United States, and that resonates, that resonates with folks.

1374
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 7: So we need to make that connection and we're happy

1375
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:33,640
Speaker 7: to do it.

1376
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 10: And as look and as the only Democrat in the

1377
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:38,560
Speaker 10: west half of the state and being a kind of

1378
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 10: super minority out here, I have to do that all

1379
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 10: day and talking with folks, and I think that that's

1380
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 10: our challenge and our charge as Democrats moving forward.

1381
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 5: I got a behind the scenes question for you to

1382
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 5: state wrap.

1383
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 3: So you know, we are technically in a tenuous cease

1384
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:58,799
Speaker 3: fire right now, very tenuous. You know, Israel still struck

1385
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 3: Gaza recently, and we're not sure every day if this

1386
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:02,679
Speaker 3: is gonna hold.

1387
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 5: Has that given some of the I would say more

1388
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 5: Zionist or.

1389
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 3: People who don't want to talk about Palestine and the

1390
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 3: Democratic Party?

1391
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 5: Are they relieved?

1392
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 3: Are they like, finally we can move on to other subjects,

1393
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 3: because you know, we've done a lot of reporting on

1394
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:20,680
Speaker 3: groups like the dem dark funded money group Chorus, and

1395
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 3: a lot of the instructions within that were like, you know,

1396
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:24,680
Speaker 3: just don't talk about Palestine.

1397
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 5: You know, it's just too divisive.

1398
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 3: It's not something that brings people together and unites people,

1399
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 3: So let's just kind of avoid the subject. Are you

1400
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 3: hearing behind the scenes any sort of liberal relief that

1401
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 3: they can start to pretend like the issue doesn't exist anymore,

1402
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 3: that they can like move on and talk about other stuff.

1403
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 5: What are you hearing behind the scenes?

1404
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean what we see on the ground is

1405
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 10: I think people wanting to release the issue. But it

1406
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 10: was very very clear right away.

1407
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 2: I was in a.

1408
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 10: Hair salon the other day and just talking with folks

1409
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 10: and and people were just talking with Like I told

1410
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 10: you all that Trump was trying to make that into

1411
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 10: some kind of real estate development for Jared Kushner. You know, people,

1412
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 10: I think saw right past this farce of a piece deal.

1413
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 10: And that's why you didn't see me and other Palestinians

1414
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 10: celebrating this at all, because we know the reality that

1415
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 10: the West Bank is guys are.

1416
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 7: Two point zero.

1417
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 10: They've already tons of thousands of Palestinians in the West

1418
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 10: Bank have already been pushed out of their homes. We

1419
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:34,799
Speaker 10: see that Americans are being locked up in Israel, even kids,

1420
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 10: American children are locked up in Israel right now. You know,

1421
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 10: what are we doing allowing this craziness to continue? So

1422
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:48,719
Speaker 10: people would like, I think, to move on in some respect.

1423
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 5: And I know it's tough.

1424
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 10: I mean, watching genocide, watching the mass starvation, the intentional

1425
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 10: force starvation from Israel. But if we allowed for this

1426
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 10: neo liberal movement over the past several decades to create space,

1427
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:10,400
Speaker 10: to justify a genocide, to create space to give us

1428
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 10: Donald Trump, then anything can happen. None of us are safe,

1429
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 10: and we've got to make sure we keep bringing all

1430
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:18,879
Speaker 10: of this to the forefront.

1431
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 2: That is such a great point. I do have one

1432
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 2: last question, which is about healthcare in your area. I mean,

1433
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 2: you have the quote unquote big beautiful bill you and

1434
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 2: the massive cuts to you know, to Medicaid. You've got

1435
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 2: the rural hospitals that are under threat. You have the

1436
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 2: ACA subsidies, which are you know not at this point extended.

1437
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 2: You know, how how does this mess impact the constituents

1438
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:47,600
Speaker 2: of your district? And you know what, what are you

1439
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 2: hearing from people about the impact of our broken and

1440
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 2: wildly expensive and inefficient healthcare system?

1441
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 10: Well, having the fourth highest Medicaid utilization rate of all

1442
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 10: of the legislative districts, I have a district that is

1443
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 10: very much in need, and we have about three hundred

1444
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,719
Speaker 10: and fifty thousand Virginians who are about to be kicked

1445
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 10: off of Medicaid because of this terrible bill. So it's

1446
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:12,799
Speaker 10: going to have and is already having profound impact because

1447
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 10: people are in anticipation, just frantic about what's happening right now.

1448
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 10: And so bread and butter coming back to how can

1449
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 10: we be defending democracy? This is what happens when we

1450
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 10: lose touch. And this is and I see the establishment

1451
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 10: folks wanting to keep pointing at Trump. Yeah, look I

1452
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 10: tell him, Look, the fight is on two fronts. Always

1453
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 10: number one, pushing back against the hateful policies from Trump

1454
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:42,719
Speaker 10: and his cronies.

1455
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:44,720
Speaker 7: But number two, we have.

1456
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 10: To have a vibrant debate about how we got here

1457
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 10: in the first place, and not only how we got here,

1458
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 10: but like Groundhog's Day, we elected Trump, we had this

1459
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 10: what we so called reprieve, and now we're back with Trump.

1460
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 7: The reality is is we just lost touch with way

1461
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 7: too many folks.

1462
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 10: And while the wind is at our backs right now

1463
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 10: with the terrible things that Trump is doing, we need

1464
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 10: to fix the kind of broken establishment as we move forward.

1465
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 2: All right, Well, Representative Versoul, thank you so much for

1466
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:18,560
Speaker 2: your time this morning. We're extremely grateful. People want to

1467
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 2: check out your campaign or support you. I know you're

1468
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 2: up for reelection here in just a couple of weeks time.

1469
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 2: Voters are actually already going to the polls. So where

1470
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:27,560
Speaker 2: can people find more from you?

1471
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, they can check us out on samfordvia dot com

1472
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 10: for sure, and hopefully we'll continue the conversation and think

1473
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 10: through how we can approach all these issues in an

1474
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:38,680
Speaker 10: intersectional way.

1475
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 2: Yes, agreed, Great, to see you.

1476
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 3: We'll include your links in our description of our video.

1477
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 3: Thank you State Rep folks. That's going to do it

1478
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 3: for the first half of the show. In the second half,

1479
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:51,680
Speaker 3: we have a lot of fun stuff. I have an

1480
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:56,680
Speaker 3: insane artificial intelligence ad from Andrew Cuomo, we have an

1481
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 3: Eric Adams endorsement.

1482
01:15:58,280 --> 01:15:59,720
Speaker 5: We've got more courtisly.

1483
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:04,080
Speaker 3: I'm also gonna ask these cringe lefties Crystal and Mack

1484
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 3: about the Bernie Borders clip on Tim Dillon. We've got

1485
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,640
Speaker 3: a lot of spicy stuff in the second half. If

1486
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 3: you want to see that, go to breakingpoints dot com.

1487
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 3: Sign up for a membership. We've got yearly and monthly,

1488
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 3: and we'll see you all in the second half. See

1489
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:18,880
Speaker 3: you then, Bye bye,