1 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to Counterpoints. Sam Ryan Grimm of 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: The Intercept here with Emily Joshinsky of The Federalist. A 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: quick programming note, at some point during this show, I'm 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: going to force Emily to define woke. Bryon, not now, 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: because you're sort of I wasn't you ready, I've had 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: too much coffee. Anyway, you guys should google that one 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: if you haven't seen this viral clip going around. But yeah, 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: I will get her on this. I don't think I 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: don't think she knows what it is, right, I've never 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: heard of it. Actually, how would you define woke if 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: you had to, if you were like put on the spot, 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: if someone was like, define wokeness, Yeah, I would say that. 13 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: It's unfortunately a nebulous definition because we don't we have 14 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: no consensus on what it means. It meant something very 15 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: specific to the left at a point in time. It 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: was then co opted by the right and has basically 17 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: become a catch all for political correctness. I mean, that's 18 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: essentially I think the correct definition is it's a stand 19 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: in for all the things that annoy me. It's a 20 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: stand in for everything that people find annoying about the left. 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: Now we need a version of woke to describe the 22 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: excesses of the American right. We need it, We need 23 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: a parallel broke. I think they go with woke. Like 24 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: a bunch of right wing organizations are calling each other woke. Now. 25 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: I know, like if they do, if they do anything 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: that isn't just like completely supportive of like a patriarchy, 27 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: you'll have people in these right wing organizations who are like, 28 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: I see wokeness, right, Wokeness is creeping in right. I 29 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: mean essentially though it's just a it's a one syllable 30 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: word for political correctness. Political correctness has always been clunky, 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: and people mean ESG, they mean DEI when they say wokeness. 32 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: But essentially it's coming from this place that like we 33 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: do need to reevaluate language, and people even use it 34 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: to mean cancel culture, which you can say is also 35 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: rooted in that question of political correctness. But I think 36 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: that's part of the problem with the word is that 37 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: it's just it means what it needs to mean to 38 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: the person at the time they use it, right, And 39 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: it's actually supposed to mean basically like a wake two injustice, right, 40 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: And that's what it was originally coined. To describe. It's 41 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: a very very annoying term. It can be sometimes a 42 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: helpful stand in when you are when I only at 43 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: least I use it sometimes for political correctness, because political 44 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: correctness is often just very clunk. It doesn't roll right 45 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: off the top too. But we do have an actual 46 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: programming note that's people noticed last week we only posted 47 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: a few episodes of this show directly to YouTube clips 48 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: on Wednesday, a couple of clips. If you want to 49 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: watch the entire thing, you can go to Breakingpoints dot com, 50 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: sign up ten bucks a month, get the whole show 51 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: part with that money once a month. You can also, though, 52 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: get it through Spotify now. So in order to do that, 53 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: so you go into your go into your Supercast account online, 54 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: which you'll get if you part with your ten bucks. 55 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: This is to connect your premium subscription two years, right, yes, 56 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: So then you click on your Breaking Point subscription in Supercast. 57 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: Then you click on the Spotify icon that links up 58 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: your account. Spotify opens asks you to log in. Once 59 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: you're logged in, you'll get all the premium videos, So 60 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: you don't so that way, you know, you'll still get 61 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: the Vimeo link. You still get the YouTube private link. 62 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: But now you can also watch it on Spotify, right, 63 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: and I love the Spotify video feature. Have you used that? No, 64 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: I don't have Premium Spotify. Oh my god, I just 65 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: have that ad one. Oh yes, I love Premier Spotify. 66 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: But the video function is fantastic. I actually pay for 67 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: Breaking Points, so I should. I'm going to do this. 68 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: Why do I do that? I mean, I do support 69 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: it generally. I didn't want to, like feel like I 70 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: was mooching off of it. I like, genuinely like I 71 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: like the idea of something that is funded by a 72 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: lot of different people who have different viewpoints, right, so 73 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: that you can, you know, tick people off, and then 74 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: if some people on subscribe, it's like okay, fine, Soccer 75 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: and Crystal. If if you're listening, Ryan and I would 76 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: like ten extra dollars a month, Well, we have a 77 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: really big show. Obviously. We're going to start with more 78 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: news out of Ukraine. We're going to talk about Tucker's 79 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: Q and A with all the Republican candidates for president 80 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, some of whom are announced, some of 81 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: whom are not. On their positions of Ukraine. We're talking 82 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: about developments in Silicon Valley Bank we have Ken Clippenstein, 83 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: Ryan's colleague from The Intercept, here to break down some 84 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: truly truly interesting reporting about Gavin Newsom's relationship with Silicon 85 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: Valley Bank. We're going to be talking about potential lablink, 86 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: We're going to be talking about artificial intelligence generative AI. 87 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: So it is a huge show today. We hope that 88 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: you take that step and link your premium subscription to 89 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: your Spotify account. All right's so let's get into the show. Ryan, 90 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: talk to us about this Russian fighter jet down a 91 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: United States drone operating over the Black Sea on Tuesday. 92 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: According to US European Command, it was an MQ nine aircraft. Ryan, 93 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: you had a pretty funny reaction to the US statement. God, great, 94 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: we're not at World War three yet, so we can 95 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: laugh about it. But yees. So, basically two Russian jets, 96 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: you know, basically intercepted a drone over the Black Sea. 97 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: This happens fairly frequently around the world over the decades. 98 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: And also while we're at war or well technically we 99 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: are not at where we are supporting a party with 100 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: weapons that is at war with Russia. Right, We're hoping 101 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: we don't actually get into a hot war with Russia, 102 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: and so apparently these two Russian jets had a lot 103 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: of fun with this drone. The military called it deeply 104 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: unprofessional behavior. So I'm just picturing top gun style stuff 105 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: like they were watching Maverick and maybe they flipped off 106 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: this drone, which is funny. I guess you'd have to 107 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: find the camera because you can't flip off the pilot, 108 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: so you can flip off everybody back in Tampa, Tampa, 109 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: who's like running the drone. And then my favorite part 110 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: was they dropped a little jit The Russian jets dropped 111 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: a little jet fuel on the drone, and the military 112 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: complained that it was quote environmentally unsound. This is the military, 113 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: who we know for a fact, produces you know, more 114 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: climb and carbon emissions, I think than what ten you know, 115 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: the ten biggest countries after it combined, dumps its own 116 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: jet fuel in the Honolulu Honolulu water supply and oh also, 117 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: you know, may have had something to do with the 118 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: greatest environmental catastrophe of the last year, which was the 119 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: North Stream pipeline. But yeah, you shouldn't dump jet fuel 120 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: on a drone. That's rude, It's it's environmentally nsound, it's 121 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: an HR matter. It's definitely and it's going to hit 122 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: Rush as Rush of the Russian military ESG score significantly. Well, 123 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: my favorite part of the statement is that I really 124 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: think they're devious enough to know this might work with 125 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: like the slice of you people with Ukraine flags on 126 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 1: the back of the preuses there they dump jet fuel 127 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: on the drone like now, I really hate putin. The 128 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: drone did end up crashing, which is also environmentally on 129 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: sound because now you've got a big drone pile of 130 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: junk at the bottom of the Black Sea and the 131 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: Russian one of the Russian fighter jets which apparently collided 132 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: with the drone had to basically make emergency landing. Yeah, 133 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: and this is so according to General US Air Force 134 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: General James Hacker, he's the command of US Air Forces 135 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: in Europe and Air Forces in Africa. He said that 136 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: before the collision, the Russian aircraft to Russian aircraft, including 137 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: the one that was involved in the collision, had been 138 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: harassing the US drone. So going back and forth it 139 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: ends up in a collision. And that's a good example 140 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: which we've had several from the first year of this 141 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: awful war of how fragile the balances and how quickly 142 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: things can escalate. You know, this is another another sort 143 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: of catastrophe that we have to really worry about, these 144 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: kinds of things where something starts as harassment ends in 145 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: an accident, and before people realize what's happened, things can escalate. 146 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: And so the United States is summoning the Russian ambassador 147 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: to have a conversation about this. Hopefully it's just a 148 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: little talking to, you know, be more professional and an 149 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: environmentally sound in your harassment of our drones. We need 150 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: to deconflict better so we don't have World War three 151 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: and hopefully none of us ends up dying as a 152 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: result of this. But that's the problem with prolonging this 153 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: war that you'd never know what type of incident is 154 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,239 Speaker 1: going to trigger some type of escalation that nobody saw coming. 155 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: You know, people feel like they have control of events 156 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: in a way that history shows that they just don't. 157 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: If you look back at almost any war, you see 158 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: that events kind of get out of the control of 159 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: the men and women who are who think that they're 160 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: the ones who are actually directing it. Yeah, no, absolutely, 161 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: And you're right on your point about the longer this 162 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: goes on the higher the chances become, the more time 163 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: it's possible for something to just go extremely wrong. You 164 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: remember the what was the situation in a couple of 165 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: months back with the missile right, and there immediately he 166 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: reported Russian missile strikes Poland, right, and you have all 167 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: kinds of completely reckless reactions. And you know, by the 168 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: time it was pretty immediately clear that people were jumping 169 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 1: to conclusions and having reckless reactions. And now there's more transparency. 170 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: Oddly enough, on Twitter, you can sort of see how, 171 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: you know, the people in the Polish government are reacting, 172 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: you can see how people in the United States government 173 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: are reacting or in the media are reacting. And maybe 174 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: that's all to all of our benefit. I'm generally pretty 175 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: skeptical of that. But maybe when you have the public 176 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: watching you really closely and saying poking holes in your 177 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: theory of the case before you can do something extremely 178 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: stupid because you're trigger happy. You know, maybe that's a 179 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: good thing, But at the same time, it's extremely hard 180 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,599 Speaker 1: to believe because to your point, Ryan, the longer that 181 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: we're in this conflict, the longer there is or the 182 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: more chance there is that something goes very very wrong 183 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, we can't know what it is yet, 184 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: And the rhetoric out of the the Pentagon has actually 185 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: been comforting in this sense. On this occasion, they're calling 186 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: the Russian pilots amateurs, just you know, the idea that 187 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: they would make their criticism that it's environmentally on sound 188 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: at least, that's so trivial that it makes it less likely. 189 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: How dare you? Like, how dare you? And then we're like, oh, 190 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: how dare you? Okay, we're going to have a duel now, 191 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: and we're going to be you know, missiles are going 192 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: to be pointing at each other. So this this kind 193 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: of stuff, calling each other amateurs and saying that they 194 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: behaved unprofessionally is actually, paradoxically a little bit comforting. Yeah. 195 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: A new way to duel, though, actually might be dumping 196 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: fuel on each other. Must feel the fast. So I 197 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: feel like that somebody was saying that that's kind of common, 198 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: common way to harass each other up up in the sky. 199 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure that you can dump a little bit of 200 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: fuel on somebody if anyone wants to take Rhyan and 201 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: me for a ride along, I don't know, not anywhere 202 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 1: near the Black State. Yeah, well, thank you very much. 203 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: I'll go to Tampa and like it happened. Yeah, Tampa 204 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: is nice. Right before Happy hour. So, speaking of Ukraine, 205 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: let's move on to Tucker Carlson's Q and A with 206 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: every Republican, every possible Republican presidential candidate. Some did not respond, 207 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: of course, over at Ukraine. It was almost like a 208 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: litmus test. He sent the same set of questions to 209 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: every presidential candidate, and again some folks who have not announced, 210 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: people like Christy nom people like Mike Pompeo who did 211 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: not respond and got I think some really interesting responses 212 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: that ended up roiling definitely conservative Twitter yesterday, but the 213 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: Internet in general had a lot of reactions to what 214 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: people were saying to Tucker. The neo conservative branch of 215 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: the Republican Party, which is under more scrutiny and more 216 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: threats than ever before, even if they still have a 217 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: lot of power, they're even getting backlash from establishment folks 218 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: like Kevin McCarthy. They were really upset about what Ron 219 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: DeSantis had to say, and Tucker himself said Ron de 220 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: Santis's response to his questions was really the most newsy. 221 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: So we're going to start right and I are going 222 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: to do kind of a rapid fire going through a 223 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,599 Speaker 1: bunch of these different responses. What do you want to 224 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: start with, Well, let's start with I think we have 225 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Yeah, let's see that one, all right, So 226 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: if you look at your screen, you can see this 227 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: here on the screen, but we'll read it for everyone else. 228 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: Trump goes in and gives a very trumpy answer, most 229 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: of which I would say is accurate. In Ukraine, There's 230 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: not a ton to pick at here. He's very clear 231 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: that this is okay. So he says, the sad fact 232 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: is that due to a new lack of respect for 233 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: the US cause, at least partially buyer and competently handled, 234 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: pulled out from Afghanistan. In a very poor choice of 235 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: words by Biden and explaining US requests and intentions, Biden's 236 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: first statement was that Russia could have some of Ukraine. 237 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: No problem. I can't really channel Trump very well here. 238 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: I don't remember Biden saying exactly that. I don't either, 239 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: so maybe that is one of the things to pick up. 240 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: But overall he says of Ukraine, he's saying, at a 241 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: staggering one hundred and twenty five billion dollars, we're paying 242 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: four to five times more, and this fight is far 243 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: more important for Europe than it is for the US. 244 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: Next tell Ukraine that there will be little money coming 245 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: from us. We've heard him say something to that except before. Yeah, 246 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: we did, that's right in a little phone call. But 247 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: he ends up by saying this can be easily done 248 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: if conducted by the right president. Both sides are weary 249 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: and ready to make a deal. The meeting should start immediately. 250 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: There's no time to spare. The death and destruction must 251 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: end now. Properly executed, this terrible and tragic war, war 252 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: that never should have started in the first place, will 253 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: come to a speedy end. That's the part I think 254 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: more Republican candidates, more Republicans in general, should zero in 255 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: on this part where he says the meeting should start immediately, 256 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: there's no time to spare. The death and destruction must 257 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: end now. That's perfectly put and to me, the rationale 258 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: behind Trump here is kind of populism at its worst. 259 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: If you think of Bernie as defined by is kind 260 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: of not me us. Trump's like, no, there are no 261 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: problems structurally and materially with the world that I just 262 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: can't fix on my own the problem. The problem is 263 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: just that you don't have meat. So the problem is 264 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: not that this war's going honest, that's being waged poorly, 265 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: and it would be waged better by me, and it 266 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: would be paid for by Europe if I were in there. 267 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: And he even says he's going to charge them kind 268 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: of back rent for all of the money that we've 269 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: spent up up until now. So basically he's just saying, 270 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: trust me, I got this. Like and he says he's 271 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: going to meet with Putin, then he's gonna meet with Zelenski, 272 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: then he's going to get him in the room because 273 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: he's such a good deal maker. I don't know if 274 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: anybody still believes this about Trump, that he's this incredible 275 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: deal maker, but that's basically that's basically his shtick, which 276 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: is not saying that I would force an end to 277 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: this war. Yeah, I think that's a good point. We 278 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: have talked in the past about the theory of the 279 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: mad man what's Donald Trump? And there's actually some good 280 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: reason to believe that other world leaders bought into that 281 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: they is so unpredictable that maybe let's Yeah, when he's 282 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: tweeting about the size of Kim Jongen's button on a 283 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: Saturday night at eight pm. Who knows what the hell 284 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: this guy is going to do, So I think there 285 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: is something to that. I don't think that's what he's 286 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: necessarily doing intentionally, but I do think there's something to 287 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: do that. When Tucker asked him, what specifically is our 288 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: objective in Ukraine and how will we know when we've 289 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: achieved it, he says, our objective in Ukraine is to 290 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: help and secure Europe, but Europe isn't helping himself. Basically, 291 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: there's there's like five more questions here. Do you believe 292 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: the US faces the risk of nuclear war with Russia? 293 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: And to your point, Ryan, he says, it depends on 294 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: who the President of the United States is. And then 295 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: Tucker asked, given that Russia's economy and currency are stronger 296 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: than before the war, do you believe the US sanctions 297 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: have been effective? No, they have not been effective, just 298 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: the opposite. Should the US support regime change in Russia? No? Again, 299 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: you can definitely quibble with the language, and I think 300 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: your point is a very good one. At the same time, 301 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: there's also some really good stuff in this response that 302 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: probably sets the tone for the less the rest of 303 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: the Republican Party going forward. The neo Conservatives don't get 304 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: upset about Trump anymore because they sort of expect some 305 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: of this from him. You know, their friend John Bolton 306 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: has told them about all of the meetings in the 307 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: White House. But Desantas seem to really get under people's skins. 308 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: So why don't we go ahead and pop that Before 309 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: we do? Let me just quibble briefly with Tucker's question here, 310 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: where he says, given that Russia's economy and currency are 311 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: stronger than before the war, do you believe that US 312 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: sanctions have been effective? Problem of that question is that's 313 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: not a given. Russia's economy is significantly worse off today 314 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: than it was a year ago. The currency happens to 315 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: be actually roughly where it was one year ago, after 316 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: you know, wild fluctuations. It's it's kind of the currency 317 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: has stabilized, but that's in the in the face of 318 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: inflation that makes ours look mild. So well, and it is. 319 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that the sanctions are are a good thing. 320 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that like driving Iran, Russian and China 321 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: into a closer trading block is a good thing. But 322 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: the premise of his question is just factually off. The 323 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: Russia's economy actually is not stronger. So for the war. Now, 324 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: maybe you could argue it is more resilient in the 325 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: sense that it's building tighter networks with our adversaries, but 326 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: it's not stronger. So let's actually that's that's one of 327 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: the answers that Christy Nome and Christy Nome had a 328 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: surprisingly good and substantive answer on these questions. But she 329 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: writes it's counterfactual to say that Russia's economy is stronger 330 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: in the wake of the war. Team Nome right here there, Yeah, 331 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: Team Nome. Ryan Gram is all board the Gnome train. 332 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: Let's go to the Dysantis element. That's the next one. 333 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: So this is what really I think had a lot 334 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: of people upset because you know, they just they expected 335 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,959 Speaker 1: better of Ron DeSantis in the neo conservative camp. Well, 336 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: what did they expect of him? I was surprised they 337 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: were upset by this because this, to me doesn't feel 338 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: much different than what Biden. I'd say, except for some 339 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: of the rhetoric. But why did this bother the right 340 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: so much? There's one right, yeah, the neocon right. I 341 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: think a lot of other people were very happy with 342 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: this answer. Tucker seemed to be very happy with this answer. 343 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: But there's one phrase in here that's set off the 344 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: kind of national review crowd, and that is territorial dispute. 345 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: So DeSantis said, well, the US has many vital national interests. 346 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: Securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, 347 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 1: achieving energy security and independence, and checking the economic, cultural 348 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: military power of the CCP. Becoming further entangled in a 349 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: territorial dispute between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them. 350 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: So this was that that phrase territorial dispute fell to 351 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: the neoconservatives as though Ron de Santis was minimizing the 352 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: conflict and minimizing its sort of global implications, of historic implications, 353 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: and minimizing Putin's ultimate goal. My response to that, and 354 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: I think you'd probably have a similar one, which is 355 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: that we actually have plenty of evidence at this point 356 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: that Putin would be willing to have conversations about territory. Right. 357 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: He may have wanted to take Keev and I think 358 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: at some point he probably thought he could, He thought 359 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: he had it. It's perfectly clear now that he didn't. 360 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: It's perfectly clear that now that he's not going to 361 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: and he knows that, and that's why he has in 362 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: the past, we've we've heard about scuttled negotiations, been willing 363 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: to talk precisely about territory. At this point, I think 364 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: it's perfectly accurate to call it a territorial dispute. And 365 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: I think again gets to the delusions of the NA 366 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: consect that this set them off. Yeah, what I found 367 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: most interesting about this is that to me, it actually 368 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: you hear the you've been hearing the phrase uniparty a 369 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: bunch lately. To me, it actually revealed how much there 370 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: is a uniparty when it comes to foreign policy, because 371 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: I see why that could trigger a kind of internescing 372 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: battle on the right, you know, because it's a question 373 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: of whether or not you're you're giving enough, you know, 374 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: you're you're giving enough kind of weight to the struggle. 375 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: But if you if you look close at what he's saying, 376 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: it is very hard to distinguish from the current Biden policy. Well, 377 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: he says no regime change, which so Biden. Now, okay, 378 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: I shouldn't say Biden policy, I should say American policy. 379 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: Because Biden has said all sorts of things and then 380 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: they go back to his advisors and they're like, well, 381 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: no, no no, no, we don't mean regime change. So I 382 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: don't think that the current American policy is actually regime change. 383 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: I think Biden might say that because he just says 384 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: whatever pops into his mind and it slips right out. 385 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: Although I think you do hear that from other members 386 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: of the uniparty and media. You know, you're a apple 387 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: bombs and certainly Apple apple bomb world for sure, but 388 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: beyond that, so many while the US has many vital 389 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: national interests and he names them, becoming further than tagled 390 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: in this dispute is not one of them. This is 391 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: territorial dispute, is not one of them. That actually mirrors 392 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: the way that the Biden administration says that this is 393 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: not a you know, critical national interest which requires US 394 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: troops or US direct US engagement like that is how 395 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 1: that is specifically how Biden has rejected the calls from 396 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: the more hawkish elements of both parties to get more 397 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: aggressively involved, to give offensive weapons to Ukraine, because he 398 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: says it's not a national interest to that degree, which 399 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: goes to exactly what DeSantis talks about, which is he says, 400 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: we don't want to give kind of long range offensive 401 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: weapons to Ukraine. Elsewhere he tries he's critical without saying 402 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: what he would do differently, Like he says he's against 403 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: a blank check. It's like, okay, well, we'll kind of 404 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: check you for because a president of SANTUS with a 405 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: leader McConnell and a speaker McCarthy would probably be showering 406 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: just as much money on the war effort as Biden. 407 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: Maybe there would be some more, some more efforts to like, actually, 408 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: you know, monitor where the money is going, but that's 409 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: trivial compared to the size of the and scope of 410 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: the effort. Yeah, I don't know about that. Because Kevin 411 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: McCarthy signaling was a good example that Republicans in Washington, 412 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: d C. With future interests, with electoral interests, are pretty 413 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: terrified of the base and understand where the base is. 414 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: If you look at public polling and where the Republican 415 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: Party and Republican voters are on the money to Ukraine. 416 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: I think you see a trend in almost all of 417 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: these answers, except for some of the predictable ones. Chris 418 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: Christie's where you're getting to something here, Lindsey Graham, we 419 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: have this next element. He actually compared what Desantas said, 420 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: what Ron Desantas said to Neville Chamberlain. He said, the 421 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: Neville Chamberlain approach to aggression never ends. Well, I mean 422 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: it just no, there's no winning if you stop short 423 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: of regime change to them. And I saw somebody make 424 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: this make the point on In response to that, he said, like, 425 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: actually not an unpopular response here, but the Nevill Chamberlain 426 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: project actually does often work. Like it it didn't work 427 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: against Hitler, Like that's true, but like negotiation to end 428 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: a conflict does actually have a not that bad track 429 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: record over the last you know, three hundred years when 430 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: it comes to wars, Like that's that's how aggression and 431 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: wars end is through negotiation. Sometimes you're going to have 432 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: the most evil megalomaniac who's ever like walked the face 433 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: of the earth, and that it's not going to work 434 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: against him. But the idea that negotiations don't work, yeah, Now, 435 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: one man's negotiations is another man's appeasement. But that's that's 436 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: what makes a negotiation. You're never going to come out 437 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: of it with a complete victory, complete victory. That's that's 438 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: total war right right exactly, And when people in the 439 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: neo conservative can't use the word appeasement, it is absolutely 440 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: infuriating because there's then you're just talking about, like you said, Ryan, 441 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: total war, and that's that's your other choice. So just 442 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: say that we'll do rapid fire here through some of 443 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: the rest of them. There there are some more interesting 444 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: Tim scottline was hilarious. If we have this, I think 445 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: we do so. Mike Pence gives a very what I 446 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: would argue is a fairly near conservative Pence. He's carrying 447 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: the standard. He invokes, Yeah, he invokes the Reagan doctrine 448 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: and says we support those who fight our enemies on 449 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: their shores, so we will not have to fight them ourselves, 450 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: and then goes on offense and says there is no 451 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: room for putin apologists in the Republican Party. Tucker interpreted 452 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: that as a barb at him in his reading of 453 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: the Pence tweet. There's some other ones. Vekram Oswami basically 454 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: answered with an essay like really really long post. You 455 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: can you can read all of this on Tucker's Twitter. 456 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: By the way, I don't know what would you make 457 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: what do you make of Pence's entire kamikaze kind of 458 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: campaign that he's running. I mean, I enjoy watching It. 459 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: Doesn't mean I'm a neo khon all of a sudden, 460 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: but it is kind of fun to watch him. Just yeah, 461 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: Kamakazi seems the best word, because it feels like this 462 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: is not a path to victory for him, but he's 463 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: gonna do some damage along the way. It almost feels 464 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: like when Bernie decided to run in twenty fifteen. It's 465 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: like somebody e didn't think he was going to win. 466 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: It's like, but somebody needs to get the message out 467 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: there and have a debate over these issues. Almost feels 468 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: like he feels like somebody has to like stand up 469 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: for the ghost of Reagan. I think he really sees 470 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: a path for himself, which is that when you have 471 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: a very splintered, potentially a very splintered primary, we don't know. 472 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: One of the interesting things about this Q and A 473 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: is we don't know how many people are actually running. 474 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: These are people who are seriously exploring a bid, but 475 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,479 Speaker 1: we don't know how many of them actually end up 476 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: on the debate stage, actually end up mounting campaigns and 477 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: traveling and making a real effort, but it does look 478 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: like a lot of people are flirting with a run. 479 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: And if that's the case, you have the Trump vote, 480 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, some thirty percent of the Republican base roughly, 481 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: and then everybody else is split into these different camps, 482 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: which is essentially how Donald Trump won the Republican primary 483 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, because you were either voting for Donald 484 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 1: Trump or for one or the other against him. He's 485 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: trying to he's trying to be that guy he's going 486 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: to like stay in it long enough with that integrity, 487 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: and he's going to carry Reagan's mantle. You could see 488 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: the sort of suburban Republican voter who's uncomfortable with DeSantis, 489 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: maybe because he thinks that the Ukraine conflict is quote 490 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: a territorial dispute, and you have Mike Pence, you know, 491 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: arguing sort of against that. Then yeah, I think they 492 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: think there's enough room. If everyone's voting against Trump, it 493 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: just needs to pick another flavor. Then maybe, now that 494 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: Trump's support is down to you know, something around twenty 495 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: five thirty percent, if another person can just beat that, 496 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: that's their lane. So that's what I would make of 497 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: Mike Pence's is he competing for that lane with Chris Christy, 498 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: and should we finish with him. Yeah, let's throw Chris 499 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: Christie's answer up on here the last element. He's the 500 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: last element. We'll just go straight to that one. I 501 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: have no idea. I didn't even think there was a 502 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: chance that Chris Christie would mount a bid at all. 503 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: I guess Tucker has reason to think Chris Christie is 504 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: on I guess Chris Christy's on Tucker's radar for some reason. 505 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: And he answered the question the full throated kind of 506 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 1: George W. Bush throwback kind of rhetoric completely, as though 507 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: the Trump administration never happened. Yeah, Russia, Russia's aggression against 508 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: Ukraine is a national security issue that threatens our alliances 509 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: and are standing in the world. Our objective is to 510 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: assist Ukraine sufficiently to enable him to defeat Russian forces 511 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: and restore their soverearty. If we do not, this aggression 512 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: will spread, and the void we leave will be filled 513 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 1: by authoritarian regimes like China around North Korea and an 514 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: empowered Russia if they triumph over Ukraine, which Tucker kind 515 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: of paraphrased on his show as if we don't beat 516 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: if we don't beat Russia in Ukraine with Korean and 517 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: Iron will take over the world. And the other thing. 518 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: The other point to make is Tim Scott, Christy Noman 519 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: particular and Vivek Ramaswami in particular all invoked China and 520 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: made this argument that our focus on Ukraine financially and 521 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: just militarily is distracting us and weakening us in the 522 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: the with the potential urgent threat of a fight in 523 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: the South China Sea mounting that that was one of 524 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: the lines that they brought into the conversations with Tucker. 525 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: Speaking of Tucker, indeed, speaking of Tucker, we have more 526 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: Tucker to talk about, because actually this whole exercise where 527 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: Tucker Pepper the potential Republican candidates with questions was a 528 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: really interesting one. Some of them gave short responses, some 529 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: of them gave long responses to every individual question. They 530 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: came in all kinds of different formats. But he also 531 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: went on full send to talk. I saw him talk 532 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: about nicotine. He's always you know, got a dip in 533 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: longtime smoker. That a fairly enjoyable part of the conversation 534 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: because he talked about how nicotine has his health benefits 535 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: it's not a carcinogen. I tend to agree with him 536 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: on that point, but he also called it's it's a 537 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: nicotine dip, like a oh man, you're about to learn 538 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: about a whole new world. But it's not like old 539 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: school dip. No. Yeah, it's it's like like what vaping 540 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: is before. Oh okay, wow, I didn't know that there 541 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: was like vaping. But for dip, well, it's it's it's 542 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: an artificial type, but it's it's not packed with Yeah. 543 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: So he also now that we Ryan's going to do 544 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: the next day, Yeah, show what that so. But he 545 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: also called former President Trump quote a little bit autistic 546 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: and dismissed this is media writing. Dismissed Trump's claim he 547 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: would end the war in Ukraine. In a lengthy and 548 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: candid interview on the Full Send podcast. At one point 549 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: during the discussion on the topic of Russia's invasion, came up, quote, 550 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: I saw Trump said he could close that in twenty 551 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: four hours if he wanted to. Kyle asked, quote, do 552 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: you think he could? Carlson responds, I have no idea. 553 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: I mean, he couldn't build a border wall in four years, 554 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: so you know there's a gap. Between promises and delivery 555 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: with all politicians, very much, including him. I will say, 556 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: in Trump's defense, and maybe because he's a little bit autistic, 557 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: he saw the stakes of this like at the very beginning. 558 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: And this is what I do love about Trump, particularly 559 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: in foreign policy. I think we have a clip of 560 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: Tucker's response here as well. Trump said he could close 561 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: that in twenty four hours if he wanted to. Do 562 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: you think he could? I have no idea. I mean, 563 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: he couldn't build a border wall in four years. So 564 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, there is a gap between promises and delivery 565 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: with all politicians, very much including him. But I will say, 566 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: in Trump's defense, and maybe because he's a little bit autistic, 567 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: he saw the stakes of this like at the very beginning. 568 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: He's like, you don't want And this is what I 569 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: do love about Trump, particularly in foreign policy. He sees 570 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: the big stuff. He's like, wait, you've got Russia in China. 571 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: They don't don't trust each other. We can't let them 572 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: get together. They'll kick our acts and we'll be We're 573 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: not going to fight a war against them, one hopes, 574 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: but we'll definitely be taking orders from them. Definitely. No. 575 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: And he said that five years ago when everyone's like, 576 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: shut up, racist. Okay, he's a racist, but is he wrong? 577 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: So diagnosis aside his point about how Trump sees the 578 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: big picture that from his perspective, that Donald Trump comes 579 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: in has this sort of business mentality, looks at these 580 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: conflicts from an almost like cartoonish perspective and says, well, 581 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: because I'm not mired in the theory and the details 582 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: and you know all of that, I can say, what's 583 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: wrong with all of you very smart people. Can't you 584 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: see the bigger problem going on? You're you're not seeing 585 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: the forest for the trees. That's an interesting point. What 586 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: did you make of it? Well? I think that American 587 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: foreign policy makers also have a cartoonish view of American 588 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: foreign policy, and that it clouds their judgment, whereas it 589 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: might actually make Trump to see things a little bit 590 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: more clearly, at least in that in that particular sense. 591 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: In other words, if you're an American, you're guiding foreign 592 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: policy and you are constantly drinking your own kool aid 593 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: about how we are spreading democracy and how we are 594 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,239 Speaker 1: a we are a force for good, that we're the 595 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: only country out there that doesn't engage in great power politics. 596 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: What we're out here doing is just policing the world 597 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: and making it a better place. Like that, That's that's 598 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: all we're doing. Everybody wants to be a Madisonian democracy 599 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: if we can just kind of nudge them in that 600 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: direction with our m sixteens and maybe potential security guarantees, 601 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: and if not, then cups of their bad governments. So 602 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: if you're driven by this belief in your own worthiness, 603 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: your own your own morality, then you might be blinded 604 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: to the way that your actions are going to be 605 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: perceived and counteracted by other tries. You might not see, 606 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: Oh wait, if we do this, not only are we 607 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: going to have Russia and China who do hate each other, 608 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: but now all of a sudden, you know, find out 609 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: of necessity a reason to work together. You have Iran 610 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: working with him clothes. You might even get countries like Brazil, 611 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: El Salvador, uh Venezuela, like all of these other countries 612 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: that we could have, you know, very good relations with 613 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: all of a sudden start to feel threatened and don't 614 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: see from their perspective, this is kind of warm hearted 615 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: sharing of democratic values. What they what they see is 616 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: a global hedgemon just trying to and enforce its will. 617 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: And so for Trump, who is you know has you 618 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: know has is completely a moral only sees kind of 619 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: transactions and power plays. He's able transactual morality, right, He's able. 620 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: He's able to see from their perspective much more or 621 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: easily how they're going to respond to what the United 622 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: States is doing because he doesn't really have any buy 623 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: in into the kind of the mythos around the US 624 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: spreading democracy around the world. Yeah, he's completely changed the tone, 625 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: at least in the Republican Party. And that's what this 626 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: questionnaire we talked about it in the last block, I mean, 627 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: one of the big Obviously, it's an open question as 628 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: to whether you believe that Ron DeSantis sees this as 629 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: quote a territorial dispute in the way that absolutely angered 630 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: so many of the old Conservatives who are trying to 631 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: cling to power but are keeping it much less. They're 632 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: much less powerful than they wish that they could be. 633 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: Precisely because you're getting answers like Ron DeSantis christinome things 634 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: that you would not have had Republicans talking about pre Trump. 635 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: And we know that, by the way, because they were 636 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: talking about Ukraine a little bit differently during the Obama administration, 637 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: both for political reasons and because Trump hadn't disrupted the 638 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: party yet. I think there's an argument for that sort 639 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 1: of reg and I peace through Strength not being full 640 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: contradictory with where they are now. But at the same time, 641 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: there was a lot more I think eagerness to criticize 642 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: the Obama administrations what they perceived as weakness for not 643 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: equipping Ukraine in some cases with offensive weapons to do 644 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: what it needed to do around the annexation of Crimea. 645 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: So all of that is to say he completely fundamentally 646 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: at least changed the way Republican politicians talk about it. 647 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: But we have not yet tested how a post Trump 648 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 1: Republican Party deals with in office these questions. We obviously 649 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: have Kevin McCarthy saying he doesn't want the blank check, 650 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: but he's only been Speaker of the House for a 651 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: little bit and Republicans have only had the House for 652 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: just a couple of months now at this point, so 653 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: we don't really know what the Republican Party post Trump 654 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: looks like on foreign policy. We do, however, know what 655 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: they want to talk about, and we do know what 656 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: they believe the rhetoric should look like, and that is 657 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: a change. What do they think it should what do 658 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: they think the rhetic should be the more isolationist leaning, 659 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: more realist, say, less near a conservative and more realist 660 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: the whole like going going to Iraq to build a 661 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: democracy like that's gone kind of thing. Yeah, And Tucker's 662 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: talked about himself, how that's his perspective on this has changed. 663 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: And it would be hard to be And I think 664 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: this is where the Republican base has shifted too. It 665 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: would be hard to be an American who looks at 666 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: what our foreign policy establishment over the last twenty years, 667 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: over the last fifty years and says, you know, great job, 668 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: great work. I trust you to continue doing this. You 669 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: clearly know exactly what you're doing and need no disruption whatsoever. 670 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: Was it what finally brought the right back around? Was 671 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: it the disastrous occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, like the 672 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: combination of those two after Vietnam and basically like sixty 673 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: years of having nothing to show for these adventures. Yeah, 674 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: I think it's that. I think it's the class element too. 675 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: And you know, just proportionately people who vote Republican were 676 00:36:54,120 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: affected by sending their kids to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, 677 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: and especially you know now feel as though that was 678 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: a sacrifice they made while people in Washington were sort 679 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: of using their children as pawns in this like great 680 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: global chess game and doing it really poorly. So I 681 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: definitely think the class element is there. But yeah, it's 682 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 1: hard to look at this and not see failure after 683 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: failure after failure, and so I think at least the 684 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: candidates and Trump picked up on that. People forget how 685 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: central that was to his campaign in the Republican primary 686 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: back in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen. When he was 687 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: talking about in terms of Iraq and Afghanistan was completely 688 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: different than basically any other Republican candidate before him. And 689 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: now we're almost ten years from the escalator that he 690 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: descended down to announce his candidacy in the Republican Party, 691 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: at least as talking about these things in a totally 692 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: different way, because I think they saw the response and 693 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: that totally changed. I do remember that incredible moment in 694 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: the Republican debate where Trump told Jeb Bush, like, you know, 695 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: your brother, you know, was there for nine to eleven 696 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: and then he botched the Iraq War, and we never 697 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: should have done that. Now, Trump, if I remember, was 698 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 1: supportive of the Iraq War at the time. But that's fine. 699 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: He's a politician. He can swing all over the place 700 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: if he wants. He was probably all over the place 701 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: on the Iraq War. Yeah, he's gonna say, right, like, 702 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: as long as we can get the oil, then we 703 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,839 Speaker 1: should do it. She probably wasn't for building democracy, since 704 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,240 Speaker 1: he's not necessarily even for democracy here. But to see 705 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: him eviscerating the kind of pro war mentality that was 706 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: dominant in twenty fifteen still by twenty fifteen in the 707 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: Republican Party, and to see it land on Jeb and 708 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: just crush him was delightful to watch the front runner 709 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: at the time. I mean, again, it's ridiculous to think 710 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: about that, but he Jeb Bush was the front runner. 711 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: Was Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton, but it was on 712 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: the Republican side. It was Jeb's year. Trump's told Howard Stern, 713 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 1: and this was in two thousand and two, about six 714 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,320 Speaker 1: months before the war. Yeah, I guess so when he 715 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: was asked if he supported going to war, but then yeah, 716 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: sure he did. By two thousand and four, he was 717 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: completely in opposition to the war basically, so he's turned 718 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 1: around quicker than other people. He was definitely ahead of 719 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: the Republican Party on that question in two thousand and 720 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 1: four by then, like Abu Graves two thousand and four, like, 721 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 1: but it's still faster than a lot of the Republican Party, 722 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: for sure. It took the two thousand and six midterm 723 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: wipeout right for a lot of them to be like, 724 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: all right, yeah, we'll eventually end this war fifteen years 725 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: from now, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, let's go 726 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 1: to the Silicon Valley Bank developments, because there's more to 727 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 1: talk about every single day. By the hour, it feels 728 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: like there's more to talk about every single day. Let's 729 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 1: start though, Actually, Ryan with yourself, you were on Russell 730 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: Brand Show yesterday. We had just I'll tee this up 731 00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 1: very briefly. I went We talked about the Department of 732 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 1: Justice announcing that it's going to be probing Silicon Valley Bank. 733 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: The New York Times reported that experts were saying that 734 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,280 Speaker 1: they're going to be looking at the bonuses that executives 735 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 1: in the stock sale, the bonuses paid out to the 736 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: executives and the stock sales done by executives. That's great, 737 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: they should definitely look at that. What I hope and 738 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,439 Speaker 1: also suspect a little bit that they would also look 739 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: out look at would be this text chain. We'll talk 740 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: about it a little bit later, a bunch of text 741 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: chains and slack groups among these VCS founders the Silicon 742 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: Valley tech world that very early started saying, hey, guys, 743 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: why don't we all get our money out? And so 744 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: then the question becomes were you, why were you? Why 745 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: were you making these suggestions to this group rather than 746 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,919 Speaker 1: if you really had concerns, just pull your money out, 747 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: like you wouldn't like yell, like if the theater is 748 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: really on fire, just get out rather than start a stampede. 749 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: So anyway, so we talked briefly about some of that 750 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: so of a dialogue being potentially I know, you know, 751 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: not Nottro Damus or whatever or some sort of soothsayer, 752 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: but but potentially this is part of a kind of 753 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: dialogue taking place between the state treasury and the banking 754 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: system that's letting them know that there are ways of 755 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: precipitating financial disaster unless there's compliance and favorable legislation and regulation. Yeah, 756 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: nice little economy you've got going here. Shame if there 757 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: is a bank run and a bunch of contagion that 758 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: just wiped it out. So yeah, So now the New 759 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: York Times reporting just now that the FBI, Department Justice 760 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: are going to look into, you know, the causes of 761 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: this meltdown and the twenty eighteen rollback. The executives who 762 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,399 Speaker 1: catched out a bunch of bonuses like those, that's all 763 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: going to get looked at. You know. They to me 764 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,800 Speaker 1: they ought to actually look at that text chain. You 765 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: got two hundred people, you got two hundred phone numbers. 766 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 1: Call those folks in. Maybe it was completely innocent, ask them, 767 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,399 Speaker 1: you know why, you know, why did you tell Why 768 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 1: did you tell your closest two hundred friends to take 769 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: the money out of here? Why didn't you just take 770 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: your own money out? At the same time, Peter Thiel's 771 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: what's it called his founder's firm, they did a call 772 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: on that day where they they called money in like 773 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: on that very day. That required and then a bunch 774 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 1: of their partners or urge a bunch of their partners 775 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: to pull money out as well. Why'd you do this? 776 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: Just total coincidence? What did this happen? Anything to do 777 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: with this? I think these are reasonable questions that investigators, 778 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: you know, ought to be asking because the because it's 779 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: just the other explanations just don't make a lot of sense. 780 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: It's extraordinary that you say that, so is unlikely that 781 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: the investigation will look into these aspects of the case. 782 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 1: What about Biden's public claim overt obvious and playing the 783 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 1: consequences of a failed capitalist venture are bankruptcy, Like you said, 784 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: the bank is involved are unlikely to face bankruptcy. You 785 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: said that should be the first step and the consequences 786 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,000 Speaker 1: of those actions should be felt. So the question then 787 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: would be, well, why, like why would a bunch of 788 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,360 Speaker 1: tech bros blow up their own bank? And the speculation 789 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: that is out there is that it is a shot 790 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: across the bow at the Fed that the entire tech 791 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: industry that these guys have made so much money off of, 792 00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:01,319 Speaker 1: requires quantitative easing at a global scale to get the 793 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: get the cheap, get the free money flowing out the 794 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley that they run through Silicon Valley Bank and 795 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 1: then runs to all of these different startups. Some of 796 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 1: them hit and some of them don't. But if you're 797 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,760 Speaker 1: if you're at four or five six percent interest rates, 798 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: you can't make all of the different bets that you 799 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: can make at basically zero percent interest rates. This the 800 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: bubble can just go on forever. So the idea would be, 801 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 1: how do you how do you make it clear to 802 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,319 Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve that they need to stop ratching up 803 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: interest rates, that they need to stop tightening monetary policy. 804 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 1: You tank Silicon Valley Bank, you take Silicon Valley Bank. 805 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: So that would be the that's this, that's the speculation, 806 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 1: which speculation ran literally just did. Many people are saying 807 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: conspiracy that out there. It's many people are saying, well, 808 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: it also makes more sense than the alternative, because here's 809 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: the thing. If you really do feel like because of 810 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: the news that came out Wednesday night that your money 811 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,239 Speaker 1: is at risk, you have two things you can do. 812 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,839 Speaker 1: You can either go to your bank calmly while there's 813 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 1: not a bank run, and pull your money out of 814 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,840 Speaker 1: that bank, like that would be the rational thing to 815 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: do if you're trying to protect your wealth. Or you 816 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: can text two hundred of the richest people in the 817 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: world who all have money at Silicon Valley Bank and 818 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: encourage them to take their money out, and then you 819 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,399 Speaker 1: can do a call to other investors to have them 820 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: pull their money out, like, those are your two options, 821 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: Which one of those is going to have you more 822 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,919 Speaker 1: likely to be made whole by the end of the day, 823 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,359 Speaker 1: and which one of those is more likely to cause 824 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: a bank run, which then risks your ability to get 825 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 1: your money out. And if your real goal is to 826 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: just to get your money out, you know, spreading sewing 827 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: fear and panic doesn't do that. I've heard anecdotes about 828 00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:02,360 Speaker 1: smaller businesses, startups that had you know, their assets in SVB. 829 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 1: I also, though, think there is an alternative possibly, which 830 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: is that a lot of these other people basically have 831 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,360 Speaker 1: been playing with monopoly money for the last twenty years. 832 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,720 Speaker 1: They have so much money that they're investing in different 833 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,760 Speaker 1: places and playing around with that. Their fear of being 834 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:26,879 Speaker 1: made whole is not necessarily like understandable or comprehensible from 835 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: the perspective of people who haven't just been playing with 836 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,319 Speaker 1: millions and billions for a really long time. I don't know. 837 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's to the question about why 838 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 1: they would be chatting in their signal groups instead of 839 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:44,279 Speaker 1: yanking immediately and taking action. Maybe it's it's simply well, 840 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: first of all, incompetence, but secondly it seems possible to 841 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,760 Speaker 1: me that they just have been playing with this glut 842 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: of money like it's monopoly, Like it's those fake gold 843 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 1: chocolate coins that you just toss around at a birthday 844 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: like his birthday party, for so long. It's not as 845 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: pressing as it would be otherwise it could be. And 846 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: the nice thing about this conspiracy theory is that can 847 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: be tested, Like investigators can literally call these people in 848 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: and they all of their communication is done by text, yeah, 849 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: by slack. Let's hope they don't have disappearing messages on 850 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 1: signal and just say, look, we want to see what 851 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: you guys talked about Wednesday night and what you guys 852 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,799 Speaker 1: talked about Thursday morning. Did any of you say like, hey, 853 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 1: you know what, the FED is out of control. You 854 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:31,719 Speaker 1: know what they need? They need to be scared. Like 855 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: if you find some messages like that right, then you 856 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: got them. If you don't, then maybe this is just 857 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: organic idiocy. Well we have The New York Times is 858 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 1: reporting that there's a United States is reportedly opening an 859 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: investigation into collapse of SVB. There's actually also I believe 860 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: a class action lawsuit that has been filed on Tuesday nights. 861 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,279 Speaker 1: So the shareholders, right, Yeah, So there's a lot of 862 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,399 Speaker 1: opportunity for discovery here. There's a lot of opportunity for 863 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 1: evidence to emerge, whether they wanted to, whether the investors 864 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: wanted to or not. Is there anything particular you expect 865 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 1: from the early days of these investigators, Well, not necessarily 866 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: from the early days. But what's nice is that when 867 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,360 Speaker 1: you have powerful entities in a legal fight, then you 868 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: are more likely to get to the bottom of at 869 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: least messages, Like the reason we have all those Fox 870 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,399 Speaker 1: News messages is because Dominion was able to get them right. 871 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: So the executives at Silicon Valley Bank are very much 872 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: motivated to point fingers in other directions. It wasn't us, 873 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,960 Speaker 1: wasn't our, wasn't our risky business model? Wasn't our lobbying 874 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: Congress in twenty eighteen to roll back rules so that 875 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: we could operate in a riskier fashion, which we then 876 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,440 Speaker 1: exploited to blow ourselves up, Like wasn't us? Wasn't wasn't us, 877 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: like extracting our bonuses and selling stock at the end, 878 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,439 Speaker 1: it was actually these tech pros who prompted a run 879 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,760 Speaker 1: on our bank. Like that, they're motivated to make that claim, 880 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 1: so their attorneys are then going to be motivated to 881 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,600 Speaker 1: try through the discovery process to get access to some 882 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 1: of these messages to see if there actually is anything 883 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,440 Speaker 1: that points to and you know, some of these pros 884 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,640 Speaker 1: might be dumb enough to have like typed that up. 885 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: You know, we'll see you wouldn't think that you'd have, 886 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:21,080 Speaker 1: you know, Fox anchors saying like none of this was true. 887 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: All right, more than eleven, but there you go. Well 888 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,240 Speaker 1: for more on this. Ken clippen Stein is actually here, 889 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 1: so we're going to pause and bring Ken in right now. 890 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 1: One of the most vocal cheerleaders of the Silicon Valley 891 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,120 Speaker 1: bank bailout was none other than California Governor Gavin Newsom. 892 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,239 Speaker 1: Ken Klippenstein from the Intercept joins us to talk about 893 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 1: some of his new reporting about some potential conflicts that 894 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: Governor Newsom may have had that he that he neglected 895 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 1: to mention. Ken. Thanks for joining us. Good to be 896 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,840 Speaker 1: with you, guys. I have to say, when you tuned 897 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,319 Speaker 1: up this segment, I thought you were going to say 898 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,839 Speaker 1: one of the most vocal cheerleaders, the best baby who 899 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,480 Speaker 1: happened to have some of his startup capital lodged in 900 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: that bank. Ken a lot of people don't know this 901 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,840 Speaker 1: has a winery like Gavin Newsom, and he was banking 902 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 1: with SBB. Well, congratulations, I'm glad that everything worked out 903 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: for you know me. I like to support the innovators. 904 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,400 Speaker 1: That's right, Yes, so, so Gavin Newsom loves to support 905 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,360 Speaker 1: the innovators as well. Tell us a little bit about 906 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: his entanglements with Silicon Valley Bank, what we know of them. Yeah, 907 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,840 Speaker 1: So it turns out he has three wineries. He was 908 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: a businessman before becoming governor, owns a bunch of companies 909 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,800 Speaker 1: in the hospitality industry, and three of those wineries appeared 910 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,400 Speaker 1: in the bank's winery division. That's a thing for the 911 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,080 Speaker 1: for the bank, and it's it's listed on the website. 912 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: And so it turns out he uses Silicon Valley Bank 913 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: for those three companies. In addition to that, a long 914 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: time former employee of Newsom's told me that he also 915 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,480 Speaker 1: uses it for his personal his multiple personal accounts with 916 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,120 Speaker 1: the bank as well. And then third angled all of 917 00:49:54,160 --> 00:50:00,120 Speaker 1: this is that his wife runs a nonprofit and on 918 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,800 Speaker 1: the board of directors is a president of a Silicon 919 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,520 Speaker 1: Valley bank, and that nonprofit received one hundred thousand dollars 920 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: from SVB over the last several years, so a number 921 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: of different points of connection and ties between Governor Newsom 922 00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,680 Speaker 1: in that bank. And I want to get your thoughts 923 00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,880 Speaker 1: ken on the response from Newsom's camp to your reporting. 924 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,680 Speaker 1: They claim, right that he has his holdings, all of 925 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: his financial holdings are in a blind trust. What do 926 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 1: we know about the potential conflicts there and how much 927 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,719 Speaker 1: that would matter if, for instance, you know, his wife 928 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: has this connection on the board with SVB. Right, So 929 00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: the problem with this blind trust is that it's not 930 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,000 Speaker 1: meaningfully blind. If you look at what some of the 931 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: ethics experts have said, and what this case is really 932 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,319 Speaker 1: reminiscent of was President Trump in his attempt to put 933 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,840 Speaker 1: his companies into a blind trust, which he then allowed 934 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,319 Speaker 1: his son to run. And then in this case sort 935 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,840 Speaker 1: of in parallel to that, Governor Newsom's sister runs his 936 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,080 Speaker 1: blind trust. And so the critique of that is, and 937 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,359 Speaker 1: it's not meaningfully blind because A, he already knows all 938 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,239 Speaker 1: the companies that's in it, because he's run them for 939 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,840 Speaker 1: a number of years. And b you know it's his 940 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 1: blood relative that's running this thing. So what kind of 941 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,760 Speaker 1: wall is that to put between him and these firms 942 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,760 Speaker 1: and occurred to me. Another good one is Joe Manchin, 943 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,359 Speaker 1: who has who he and his wife have a coal 944 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,399 Speaker 1: company and they put it in the name. They put 945 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,239 Speaker 1: it in a blind trust, but his son runs it. 946 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,799 Speaker 1: But he still knows it's a coal company, right, he 947 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,359 Speaker 1: knows what it does. Right. And now Newsome might only 948 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,440 Speaker 1: be able to assume at this point that the winery 949 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 1: still has accounts with Silicon Valley Bank. But you don't typically, 950 00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 1: you know, move your know, major banking operations for no 951 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,160 Speaker 1: reason unless you're a tech bro kind of spark trying 952 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,800 Speaker 1: to spark a panic or your panic. I was actually 953 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,400 Speaker 1: just looking up his wine. Plump Jack. It's one of 954 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:54,480 Speaker 1: his wineries. Apparently it specializes. It's a boutique like Northern 955 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,000 Speaker 1: California Cabernet. It's one hundred dollars a bottle for their 956 00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,200 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen plump Jack. You ever had plump Jack Cabernet on? 957 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,400 Speaker 1: Never heard of it? Have you ever heard of it? No? Anyway, 958 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,960 Speaker 1: But you know I'm not a big Cabernet person. And 959 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,520 Speaker 1: so did you get any reaction from either the California 960 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,000 Speaker 1: Press or the Governor's office in the story what'd you hear. Yeah, 961 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,799 Speaker 1: the California press is actually following up on it, and 962 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm glad that it hasn't just become a partisan football 963 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,440 Speaker 1: because this is really, as I said with the Trump case, 964 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,439 Speaker 1: this is an ethics question that is a serious one 965 00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,400 Speaker 1: and has been a serious one in the local press. 966 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,359 Speaker 1: They had looked at these problems, not specifically the wine 967 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,280 Speaker 1: companies in the in the bank, but all of his holdings. 968 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:32,719 Speaker 1: And this is something that comes up any time you 969 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,600 Speaker 1: have one of these business moguls that that you know 970 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,640 Speaker 1: has a high net worth, as as Governor Newsom does. 971 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,640 Speaker 1: There are all these questions of conflicts of interest, and 972 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,120 Speaker 1: so there's been some very good reporting in the local 973 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:51,280 Speaker 1: press around what's called behested giving. So there are strict 974 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,799 Speaker 1: limits on what California politicians can take in terms of 975 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,279 Speaker 1: gifts generally, but there's one exception, and that is what's 976 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,719 Speaker 1: called giving, where the politician directs giving to something, and 977 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,360 Speaker 1: in this case, Newsom is known to have directed giving 978 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: to his wife's nonprofit, and so it's not it's not 979 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,759 Speaker 1: regulated in the same fashion that other gifts are, and 980 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,920 Speaker 1: that's something that the local prece has been focusing on 981 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:14,360 Speaker 1: for a number of years now, and Ken you just 982 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 1: said something important, which is that you didn't want it 983 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,920 Speaker 1: to become sort of a partisan football. The report you 984 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,440 Speaker 1: had just before this one was about entanglements in the 985 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,640 Speaker 1: office of Kevin McCarthy with Silicon Valley Bank. Tell us 986 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,120 Speaker 1: about what you found there. Yeah, what was interesting about 987 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,440 Speaker 1: that is that two of the House Speaker McCarthy's senior 988 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,600 Speaker 1: staffers for a number of years ended up becoming a 989 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,640 Speaker 1: registered lobbyist for Silicon Valley Bank. And not just that. 990 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,040 Speaker 1: When I looked at what specifically they lobbied on, it's 991 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: directly related to all the stuff that's happening now, which 992 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,760 Speaker 1: is the twenty eighteen Dodd Frank partial rollback specifically pushed 993 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,799 Speaker 1: on that lobby the FDIC, which is what's ensuring the 994 00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,160 Speaker 1: depositors at this point and guaranteeing making whole of the 995 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,480 Speaker 1: people that had money in that bank. So it's directly 996 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,239 Speaker 1: connected to all this. What's sort of funny about that 997 00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,000 Speaker 1: is when I have this Newsom piece, come on, some 998 00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 1: Democrats are very angle agree saying, you know, oh, you're 999 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,520 Speaker 1: a Republican disguise. It's like, well, it's funny, you missed 1000 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,080 Speaker 1: my last story it's literally about the other I'm not 1001 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,279 Speaker 1: looking for Addy specific, I'm just looking at the bank 1002 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,600 Speaker 1: and trying to see where the nexus is with politicians, 1003 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,600 Speaker 1: and whatever pops up is what I'm going to write about. 1004 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,279 Speaker 1: So I don't I don't know what the ULL people. Yeah, 1005 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,400 Speaker 1: and it's really in that rule writing and in the 1006 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,120 Speaker 1: regulatory side where the public is at the most disadvantage. 1007 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,640 Speaker 1: So in Congress at least it's happening somewhat in public view, 1008 00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:27,719 Speaker 1: so people can weigh in when it's an obscure kind 1009 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,920 Speaker 1: of rollback. Unless you're reading the intercept the American Prospect, 1010 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,840 Speaker 1: you're not going to follow like those you know, those 1011 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,200 Speaker 1: those repeal efforts through Congress, but you can if you 1012 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,680 Speaker 1: want to. By the time it gets into the FDICE, 1013 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,440 Speaker 1: it's really like former McCarthy aids, former Mansion aids, you know, 1014 00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,400 Speaker 1: former House Financial Services Committee aids, who are going directly 1015 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,680 Speaker 1: to the FDIC saying, all right, so here is what 1016 00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,920 Speaker 1: was written into law. Now here's how we can weaken 1017 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,880 Speaker 1: it even further. Because the FDIIC, you know, aside from 1018 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,360 Speaker 1: insuring deposits, also wrote a lot of the rules around 1019 00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,200 Speaker 1: Dodd Frank about out, how are we going to implement 1020 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,759 Speaker 1: the law. What does it mean when we're going to 1021 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,520 Speaker 1: stress tests you. How often are we going to look 1022 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,160 Speaker 1: at your books? What do we feel like is a 1023 00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,080 Speaker 1: reasonable amount of exposure? What is not a reasonable amount 1024 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,200 Speaker 1: of exposure? Because what I think a lot of people 1025 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,000 Speaker 1: might not understand is a direct link between the twenty 1026 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,319 Speaker 1: eighteen rollback and this blow up. The link would be 1027 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,279 Speaker 1: if if there were tighter inspections and stress tests of 1028 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,640 Speaker 1: the bank, you might have had regulators come in and 1029 00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:31,640 Speaker 1: say all of these bond holdings is mortgage backed securities. 1030 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,880 Speaker 1: I've been hearing a lot on the news about potential 1031 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,840 Speaker 1: coming interest rate hikes. I'm not sure that if that 1032 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,680 Speaker 1: stressor hits you that you're going to be able to 1033 00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:45,440 Speaker 1: survive that. So one of two things happens. They make 1034 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,560 Speaker 1: them unwind those or knowing that they're going to get 1035 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:54,239 Speaker 1: that pressure from regulators, the risk managers don't do it. 1036 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,439 Speaker 1: They say, you know what, we need shorter term bonds here, 1037 00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:59,200 Speaker 1: or we just need to stay in treasuries, or or 1038 00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,200 Speaker 1: we need to we need to make sure we're tightly 1039 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,719 Speaker 1: hedged in the case of some type of shock from 1040 00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,600 Speaker 1: interest rates. And this idea that nobody could see these 1041 00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,759 Speaker 1: interest strikes, Nike's coming, Are you kidding me? I'm not, like, 1042 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm not a risk manager at a bank. I knew 1043 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,320 Speaker 1: they were going to raise interest rates. I talked to 1044 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:18,000 Speaker 1: an employee of SB Bank who himself was frustrated about 1045 00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:19,600 Speaker 1: exactly what you're saying, which is that of course they 1046 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,600 Speaker 1: were going to raise they were saying it, and so 1047 00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,600 Speaker 1: it's amazing. I interviewed an economist recently about all this 1048 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,480 Speaker 1: and said, why are these banks so adamant about rolling 1049 00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,759 Speaker 1: back regulations, because doesn't that end up hurting them in 1050 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,640 Speaker 1: the mid to long term? And he's like, well, you're 1051 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,839 Speaker 1: assuming that they're looking at the mid to long term, 1052 00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,279 Speaker 1: you know, because again I'm talking to his employee would 1053 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,359 Speaker 1: have been happy to have the stress tests happened because 1054 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:41,920 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have to worry about all this stuff now 1055 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,440 Speaker 1: that he's having to brief investors and things on and 1056 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,279 Speaker 1: you know, hope for his job to still exist in 1057 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: a year. And so it's kind of interesting how much 1058 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,120 Speaker 1: ends up hurting basically everyone except people at the very 1059 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,239 Speaker 1: top C suite level, these kind of derregulations. Well, and 1060 00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,359 Speaker 1: you quote at the very end, you have you really 1061 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,920 Speaker 1: stick the land again. You say, perhaps no one embodied 1062 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,000 Speaker 1: this contradiction more than Larry Summers, who said this is 1063 00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,280 Speaker 1: not the time for moral hazard elections, or for lectures, 1064 00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,800 Speaker 1: or for lessons administering, or for alarm about the political 1065 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,800 Speaker 1: consequences of bailouts from a tweet on Sunday. And when 1066 00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,120 Speaker 1: you have to your point about the people in the 1067 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,320 Speaker 1: C suites never ending up getting hurt, well maybe that's 1068 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,000 Speaker 1: partially why. Yeah, coming from the guy that for the 1069 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:29,040 Speaker 1: last two years has been endlessly talking about how we 1070 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,080 Speaker 1: can't have student loan debt because the moral hazard. And 1071 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,440 Speaker 1: now we don't have to worry about moral hazard. This 1072 00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,520 Speaker 1: is a very serious issue right now. All those people, 1073 00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,320 Speaker 1: why people, that's the other thing he said, we need 1074 00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,160 Speaker 1: He said, we need more ars. What happened to that, Well, 1075 00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,360 Speaker 1: here's your chance, right, not like the wrong the wrong people. 1076 00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,280 Speaker 1: We don't want them to be on Come on, now 1077 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,400 Speaker 1: that's a little bit. Those guys I know them, reference, Yeah, 1078 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,280 Speaker 1: they need good people. You know, haveies. That's how you 1079 00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,560 Speaker 1: know somebody has lost an argument when they just say 1080 00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:05,960 Speaker 1: now is not the time. Yeah, now, okay, right, you 1081 00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,800 Speaker 1: might be right. I just don't want to hear it, right, Kay, 1082 00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,120 Speaker 1: great reporting. Thanks so much, thanks guys. Biden administration this 1083 00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:16,440 Speaker 1: week gave the green light to a controversial drilling project 1084 00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:21,880 Speaker 1: in Alaska, approving a Connico Phillips plan to despoil or 1085 00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:28,040 Speaker 1: be spoil ruin an extraordinary amount of wilderness in Alaska, 1086 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:33,000 Speaker 1: going after one of the you know, huge untapped uh 1087 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:39,560 Speaker 1: stores of fossil fuel resources in Alaska. The the left 1088 00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:45,120 Speaker 1: quite quite fairly lost its mind, uh in reaction to this, 1089 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,960 Speaker 1: with a like what with a what are you? What 1090 00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,920 Speaker 1: are you doing? What could you possibly be thinking at 1091 00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,040 Speaker 1: a time when we're you know, in the midst of 1092 00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:56,840 Speaker 1: climate apocalypse and you're saying that you're going to be 1093 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,400 Speaker 1: uh some type of apocalypse may be overstating it slightly, 1094 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,120 Speaker 1: climate crisis. You say that you're going to be you know, 1095 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,440 Speaker 1: the best, the best climate president in history, and you're 1096 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: going to improve one of the biggest oil drilling projects ever. 1097 00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,920 Speaker 1: And the idea to me that you're going to get 1098 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,880 Speaker 1: any credit from Republicans or from the right for this, 1099 00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,360 Speaker 1: that all of a sudden you're going to start seeing 1100 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,880 Speaker 1: Republicans say, well, you know what, the Biden administration, you know, 1101 00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,560 Speaker 1: they really are quite reasonable when it comes to comes 1102 00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,600 Speaker 1: to their energy policy. So we're we're not going to 1103 00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,240 Speaker 1: continue to call them kind of Marxist who are trying 1104 00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,720 Speaker 1: to shut down every every gas station and drilling project 1105 00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,680 Speaker 1: in the country. Right, I mean, is anybody is am 1106 00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,360 Speaker 1: I wrong? Or is there some amount of drilling that 1107 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,880 Speaker 1: Biden can do where Republicans will say, you know what, 1108 00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:46,360 Speaker 1: nice drilling, baby, He didn't he drilled, baby, drilled. No. Yeah, no, 1109 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,840 Speaker 1: that's that's really why. And he coupled it, interestingly enough 1110 00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:54,360 Speaker 1: with his announcement that the Interior Department is has new 1111 00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:58,360 Speaker 1: regulations that will cut off two point eight million acres 1112 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,919 Speaker 1: of the Arctics Beaufort See than thirteen million acres within 1113 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,880 Speaker 1: the National Petroleum Reserve from new leases. So I think 1114 01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,520 Speaker 1: it's it's that was described by an administration official in 1115 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,360 Speaker 1: the New York Times as quote a firewall against new drilling. 1116 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,960 Speaker 1: So I think he's coupling it in a way where 1117 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,720 Speaker 1: he is trying, to your point, maybe not to make 1118 01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,000 Speaker 1: amends with the right or to impress the right or 1119 01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,400 Speaker 1: to neutralize any of their criticisms, so much as he's 1120 01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,880 Speaker 1: trying to say this is to twenty five hundred new jobs, 1121 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,920 Speaker 1: potentially three hundred of those would be permanent positions. It's 1122 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,040 Speaker 1: an eight billion dollar project, whole jobs right, wow, yeah, 1123 01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,000 Speaker 1: one hundred that we should burn the world down. Yes, 1124 01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,320 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty thousand barrels of oil down the 1125 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,800 Speaker 1: Trans Alaska pipeline daily. So I think it might not 1126 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:46,360 Speaker 1: be amends with Republican voters so much as it is 1127 01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:51,120 Speaker 1: anything steps to do anything about gas prices and reliance 1128 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,919 Speaker 1: right now with a very tenuar situation in the Middle East. Yeah, 1129 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,000 Speaker 1: and the Biden administration's defense of itself was there were 1130 01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,560 Speaker 1: five drill sites that Kinaco Phillips wont Yeah, only they 1131 01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,800 Speaker 1: only game three, right, And I mean again, like for 1132 01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,880 Speaker 1: the Biden administration, with gas prices where they are depending 1133 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:09,160 Speaker 1: on where you are in the country, By the way, 1134 01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:11,440 Speaker 1: your gas prices are very different. In some places they're 1135 01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:15,080 Speaker 1: extremely high still, like California for various reasons. But if 1136 01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,240 Speaker 1: you're the Biden administration and Conco Phillips is coming at 1137 01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,040 Speaker 1: you hard trying to get five new it does feel 1138 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:22,800 Speaker 1: like if you're in the White House right now, three 1139 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,840 Speaker 1: is quite a compromise. I see why they're happy with it, 1140 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,920 Speaker 1: but I also see why they coupled it with that 1141 01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:32,280 Speaker 1: quote firewall they described to the New York Times cutting 1142 01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,440 Speaker 1: off all of those, cutting off that part of the 1143 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,480 Speaker 1: National Petroleum Reserve thirteen million acres and then two point 1144 01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:41,840 Speaker 1: eight million in the Arctic Sea. Yeah, but none of 1145 01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,560 Speaker 1: it's going to come online in time to you know, 1146 01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:48,280 Speaker 1: practically while Bind's alive, and it's certainly not in time 1147 01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,120 Speaker 1: for his not in time for his election, like you're 1148 01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:52,840 Speaker 1: going to you're not going to see it affect gas prices, 1149 01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,720 Speaker 1: which was the absurd thing about how they slowed down. 1150 01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,720 Speaker 1: They stopped the Keystone Excel pipeline, which by the way, 1151 01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,640 Speaker 1: means export. It was going to export gas. But Republicans 1152 01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,200 Speaker 1: kept using the fact that they had stopped the Keystone 1153 01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,920 Speaker 1: XL pipeline to say, well, that's why you're paying high 1154 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,200 Speaker 1: gas praises right right now, which just was completely untrue 1155 01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,200 Speaker 1: and just made no sense. It gives him, it definitely 1156 01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,680 Speaker 1: gives him a talking point in re election to be 1157 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,440 Speaker 1: able to say it's not true what Republicans destroying all 1158 01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,080 Speaker 1: this wilderness up in Alaska right and to say it's 1159 01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:28,640 Speaker 1: it's not true that these claims are false. We started 1160 01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:30,880 Speaker 1: this project, an eight billion dollar project up in Alaska. 1161 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,240 Speaker 1: I am not anti drilling, et cetera. Et cetera. And 1162 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,120 Speaker 1: then he can say to the left, well, I cut 1163 01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,320 Speaker 1: off all of these acres. It's just for a president 1164 01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:43,000 Speaker 1: like Joe Biden, he's straddling the fence between I think 1165 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:48,200 Speaker 1: one generation of Democratic voters and another. It is a 1166 01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,040 Speaker 1: very difficult political question for him, to be sure. And 1167 01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:56,440 Speaker 1: there Lisa Murkowski, Republican from Alaska who's been pushing for 1168 01:02:56,600 --> 01:03:01,720 Speaker 1: this for her entire life, basically put out a statement 1169 01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,960 Speaker 1: in which she said she could quote feel Alaska's future brightening. No, 1170 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,480 Speaker 1: those are the that's the greenhouse effect that you're feeling. 1171 01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:14,000 Speaker 1: It's getting warmer in Alaska, Like the climate that has 1172 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:18,040 Speaker 1: existed in Alaska for hundreds and hundreds of years is 1173 01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:23,320 Speaker 1: radically changing in ways that are fundamentally undermining the way 1174 01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,400 Speaker 1: of life up there. But they'll get to drill. So 1175 01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:33,480 Speaker 1: congratulations to Senator Lisa Markowski. Feel you feel that future brightening? Congrats? 1176 01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,840 Speaker 1: All right? Brightening is an interesting choice. A little more 1177 01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,320 Speaker 1: SPF up there. Yeah, maybe she used that intentionally to 1178 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,320 Speaker 1: upset the Ryan Grims. It worked, she got me. Well, 1179 01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,480 Speaker 1: let's move on. In more terrifying news to rapid advancements 1180 01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:51,800 Speaker 1: in generative AI technology. Yesterday, Open AI released GPT four. 1181 01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:56,760 Speaker 1: This is generative a AI that's really quickly getting really 1182 01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:00,720 Speaker 1: really powerful. This is happening essentially at an exponential rate. 1183 01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:02,840 Speaker 1: If you talk to experts on AI, they say it 1184 01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:06,400 Speaker 1: feeds on itself and grows exponentially because of that, especially 1185 01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,280 Speaker 1: in this open source context. So according to Axios, the 1186 01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,640 Speaker 1: new version can accept and generate longer entries up to 1187 01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,880 Speaker 1: twenty five thousand words. It can generate captions and other 1188 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:22,040 Speaker 1: information using an image, using an image as a starting point. 1189 01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,959 Speaker 1: Now chat GPT, as people have noted and Actios notes 1190 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,800 Speaker 1: here can score it in the tenth percent tile on 1191 01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:32,400 Speaker 1: a bar exam. Open AI says that GPT four can 1192 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,120 Speaker 1: score in the ninetieth percent tile. It can pass most 1193 01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,400 Speaker 1: ap exams and then on the safety side, according to 1194 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,920 Speaker 1: according to AI, GPT four is quote eighty two percent 1195 01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,880 Speaker 1: less likely than GPT three point five to respond when 1196 01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,640 Speaker 1: asked for content. Its rules don't allow. This is a 1197 01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:54,840 Speaker 1: rule abiding AI. And yeah, it's but who makes the rules? 1198 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:59,240 Speaker 1: What if what happens when it starts making the rules? Well, yeah, exactly, 1199 01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,040 Speaker 1: I mean, this is what's really terrifying that rules can 1200 01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:04,880 Speaker 1: be changed when we're referring to these things as And 1201 01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,400 Speaker 1: by the way, GPT four is one of you have 1202 01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,240 Speaker 1: to pay to access it. You have to have GPT plus, 1203 01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,520 Speaker 1: I think, to access it, and then if you don't, 1204 01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:15,920 Speaker 1: you get on a wait list. Developers can sign up 1205 01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:19,520 Speaker 1: on a waitlist. But I think it's really really important 1206 01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,760 Speaker 1: to note that this is we're talking GPT four, this 1207 01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:26,720 Speaker 1: is very new technology, and already we're up to twenty 1208 01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,960 Speaker 1: five thousand words. Already we're making these rapid leaps in 1209 01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:34,040 Speaker 1: a matter of months. Every single week, AI is taking 1210 01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:37,400 Speaker 1: a new step forward that is dramatically further than it 1211 01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:42,000 Speaker 1: was just the week before. And this open source way 1212 01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,560 Speaker 1: of collaborating on AI sounds really nice, but I think 1213 01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:50,200 Speaker 1: it's actually absolutely terrifying, not because it's democratized, but because 1214 01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:52,800 Speaker 1: we're putting really powerful weapons in the hands of people 1215 01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,520 Speaker 1: who could potentially be bad actors. Now, there are all 1216 01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,320 Speaker 1: kinds of benevolent hackers in the world, there are all 1217 01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:03,080 Speaker 1: kinds of doing really interesting like democratized benevolent hacking, but 1218 01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,240 Speaker 1: there are a lot of really bad people in the world. 1219 01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:09,200 Speaker 1: Then we are giving these tools more tools just from 1220 01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,040 Speaker 1: our own use of them, every single week, and we 1221 01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:16,000 Speaker 1: cannot fathom, truly, we cannot fathom where this goes in 1222 01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,400 Speaker 1: three months, let alone a year, let alone three years. 1223 01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:23,000 Speaker 1: I also wonder if we're sort of the last generation 1224 01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:27,280 Speaker 1: of writers that can kind of trace their lineage in US. 1225 01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,320 Speaker 1: I mean, everyone who can trace their kind of lineage 1226 01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:35,200 Speaker 1: back to like the poets in Babylon, like writing has 1227 01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:43,200 Speaker 1: been basically the same since then, your poetry, fiction, non nonfiction. 1228 01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,680 Speaker 1: People have written in different forms and obviously written different 1229 01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,880 Speaker 1: content and substance, but it's been the same product. But 1230 01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,200 Speaker 1: it's been the same thing. You go from a quill 1231 01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:58,480 Speaker 1: pen to a regular pen, to a typewriter to a laptop, 1232 01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:04,400 Speaker 1: but fundamentally it's it's just putting. It's putting words from 1233 01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,200 Speaker 1: a human mind down onto onto paper that are then 1234 01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:11,120 Speaker 1: read by other people, and that that produces some type 1235 01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:17,040 Speaker 1: of experience with with AI being able to produce, you know, 1236 01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:22,040 Speaker 1: poetry and fiction and nonfiction, I would suspect that people 1237 01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:26,040 Speaker 1: that are growing up today are going to kind of 1238 01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,520 Speaker 1: write along with that crutch the entire time, because you 1239 01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,479 Speaker 1: already see, you know, if you write in Google Docs, 1240 01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:33,760 Speaker 1: you'll see you see it start to make suggestions about 1241 01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:37,480 Speaker 1: your grammar or your spelling, and that that crush alone 1242 01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,720 Speaker 1: is new like that that that is a break from 1243 01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:44,960 Speaker 1: the way that you know Voltaire would have written. But 1244 01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:51,440 Speaker 1: if you have another artificially intelligent being who's throwing up 1245 01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:55,160 Speaker 1: sentences in front of you like you're you're you're not 1246 01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:59,640 Speaker 1: engaged in the same art that that humans have been 1247 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,160 Speaker 1: engaged and for thousands of years. Well, and it also 1248 01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:08,040 Speaker 1: then destroys trust for people in public spaces in ways 1249 01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:11,000 Speaker 1: that again we haven't really thought about. We had what 1250 01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:13,560 Speaker 1: a very short period of time to acclimate to Facebook 1251 01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,160 Speaker 1: and Twitter, but that's about ten years, right, We've had 1252 01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:17,760 Speaker 1: those for more than ten years now. But by the 1253 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,439 Speaker 1: time we sort of got used to the technology and 1254 01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:24,600 Speaker 1: to the platforms, that happened roughly over the course of 1255 01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:29,679 Speaker 1: a decade. Chat GPT has outpaced those platforms in terms 1256 01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,720 Speaker 1: of gaining users really really quickly. It went. If you 1257 01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:34,719 Speaker 1: look at the chart, it's like Chat GPT is straight 1258 01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,720 Speaker 1: up here, and then you see really rapid sort of 1259 01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,080 Speaker 1: snowballing with Twitter and Facebook. But it was over a 1260 01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,240 Speaker 1: much longer period of time, whereas GPT is just going 1261 01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:46,240 Speaker 1: straight up. And so think about to your point about 1262 01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:50,280 Speaker 1: writing and art, well, think also about law, think about contracts, 1263 01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:52,960 Speaker 1: think about Wills. I mean, there are just really all 1264 01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,880 Speaker 1: of these things. It seeps into all of the cracks 1265 01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,160 Speaker 1: of human life and we can't possibly conceive of them 1266 01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:01,599 Speaker 1: and think of them right now now think of how 1267 01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:05,560 Speaker 1: it can exploit code. I mean, these things are really terrifying, 1268 01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,080 Speaker 1: and we are feeding into it as we sort of 1269 01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:15,000 Speaker 1: mess around with it on a daily basis. Biological automative possibilities. 1270 01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,840 Speaker 1: It can you know, we a B test, now, this 1271 01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,639 Speaker 1: can a Z test really quickly. Absolutely everything. I mean, 1272 01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:25,880 Speaker 1: it's just the art point is a really good one. 1273 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:30,080 Speaker 1: But also the way that it will artificially sort of 1274 01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:36,080 Speaker 1: fabricate art or writing completely will destroy trust between humans. 1275 01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,960 Speaker 1: It has the potential to completely destroy trust between humans. 1276 01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:42,960 Speaker 1: And imagine when AI is linked up with imagine when 1277 01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:45,719 Speaker 1: that kind of AI is linked up with brain wave scans. 1278 01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,879 Speaker 1: You are getting into the area of what Nita Forrahani, 1279 01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:51,560 Speaker 1: who has a great book out now called Battle for 1280 01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:55,320 Speaker 1: Your Brain. She calls it cognitive liberty. And this is 1281 01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:59,000 Speaker 1: a very urgent threat to cognitive liberty happening on a 1282 01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:04,880 Speaker 1: daily basis. At what point are you looking at today, Well, 1283 01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,439 Speaker 1: a chart from Axios caught my attention this week. You 1284 01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:10,519 Speaker 1: can see it here with the headline quote women rule 1285 01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,200 Speaker 1: employee rebound quote. The number of women in the workforce 1286 01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:17,200 Speaker 1: in February was higher than pre pandemic levels for the 1287 01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,760 Speaker 1: first time, Axios reported, adding the strength of women's return 1288 01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:23,040 Speaker 1: to work was faster than anyone could have imagined just 1289 01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,160 Speaker 1: a few years ago, when dire predictions about a SHES 1290 01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:29,720 Speaker 1: session flooded the news. That may seem like welcome news 1291 01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,439 Speaker 1: to elite women in C suites and corporate media, but 1292 01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:35,640 Speaker 1: they don't represent the rest of women in America. And 1293 01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,920 Speaker 1: here's why. Time and again, when women are actually pulled, 1294 01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,280 Speaker 1: a majority prepare part time worker staying home full time 1295 01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,599 Speaker 1: with their children. This is uncomfortable for the left, and 1296 01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:49,280 Speaker 1: it's uncomfortable for the political establishment, but it's true and 1297 01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:52,479 Speaker 1: those who want to serve women best must understand it. 1298 01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:55,360 Speaker 1: As Scott Jenner wrote back in twenty nineteen, quote, most 1299 01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,240 Speaker 1: women with dependent children don't want full time work, nor 1300 01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:00,200 Speaker 1: do they want to grind out a path to the 1301 01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,519 Speaker 1: upper reaches of corporate or political power. In recent years, 1302 01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:05,920 Speaker 1: Pew and Gallop poles have shown that fewer women, under 1303 01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:09,599 Speaker 1: the best of circumstances, prefer full time work. Married female 1304 01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:13,120 Speaker 1: MBAs from elite schools are thirty percent more likely to 1305 01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,719 Speaker 1: work part time than married female MBAs from less prestigious schools. 1306 01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,519 Speaker 1: And that's a really interesting little fact. Let's start, though, 1307 01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,960 Speaker 1: with the Pew pole that was referenced there, which found 1308 01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,160 Speaker 1: from twenty seven to twenty twelve, the share of mothers 1309 01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:28,240 Speaker 1: saying that full time work would be ideal for them 1310 01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:31,920 Speaker 1: rose sharply from twenty percent to thirty two percent, while 1311 01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:34,320 Speaker 1: the share saying they would prefer not to work at 1312 01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:37,240 Speaker 1: all fell from twenty nine percent to twenty percent. So 1313 01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,679 Speaker 1: even with that increase, the poll found only thirty percent 1314 01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,960 Speaker 1: of working mothers said their ideal situation would be to 1315 01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,559 Speaker 1: work full time. Think about that, more women coming out 1316 01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:51,760 Speaker 1: of a recession suddenly wanted full time work. Does that 1317 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:55,680 Speaker 1: mean women got sixteen percent more girl bossy. No, it 1318 01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,879 Speaker 1: means they were anxious about feeding themselves and their children, 1319 01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:02,759 Speaker 1: about health care, student debt and taxes and everything else. 1320 01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,880 Speaker 1: More recent Pew data from early in the pandemic, when 1321 01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,040 Speaker 1: government checks had gone out, found a decline, but still 1322 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:11,400 Speaker 1: that only forty four percent of mothers with kids under 1323 01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:13,680 Speaker 1: eighteen said it would be best for them personally to 1324 01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,960 Speaker 1: work full time. Right before the pandemic. Gallup found roughly 1325 01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:20,080 Speaker 1: fifty six percent of all women, a thirty year high, 1326 01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:22,280 Speaker 1: said they prefer to work rather than serving in a 1327 01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,759 Speaker 1: homemaker role if they were free to do either, although 1328 01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,120 Speaker 1: that number is slightly less useful because it doesn't break 1329 01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:29,479 Speaker 1: down the options by full time work and part time work. 1330 01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,360 Speaker 1: When it comes to just last year, the Center for 1331 01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:35,800 Speaker 1: American Progress reported nine hundred and ninety three thousand more 1332 01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,800 Speaker 1: mothers were working in December twenty twenty two than one 1333 01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:42,360 Speaker 1: year prior, crediting Biden's American Rescue Plan in part for 1334 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:46,599 Speaker 1: this so called improvement. Well, let's look at the BLS data. Quote. 1335 01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:49,000 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, eighty one point two percent of 1336 01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,080 Speaker 1: employed mothers with children ages six to seventeen worked full time, 1337 01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:56,160 Speaker 1: the Bureau reported. Remember that Pew found within a year 1338 01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:59,559 Speaker 1: of this BLS research, only forty four percent of mothers 1339 01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,720 Speaker 1: with kids under eighteen said it was best personally for 1340 01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:05,479 Speaker 1: them to work full time. That is not a perfect 1341 01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:09,280 Speaker 1: apples to apples, but it does reveal an enormous, enormous 1342 01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:12,960 Speaker 1: mismatch between what women want and what women do. It 1343 01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,000 Speaker 1: also fits with research like the paper from Swedish academics 1344 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:20,240 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen that found quote, sex differences in personality 1345 01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,920 Speaker 1: have been shown to be larger in more gender equal countries. 1346 01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,800 Speaker 1: As that paper speculated, as gender equality increases, both men 1347 01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:31,799 Speaker 1: and women gravitate towards their traditional gender roles. In other words, 1348 01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,880 Speaker 1: more women in good economies choose to stay home and 1349 01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:37,960 Speaker 1: work part time. The more freedom women have, the more 1350 01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,439 Speaker 1: they can live in accordance with their preferences, and the 1351 01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:42,759 Speaker 1: more they choose to work part time or not at all. 1352 01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,360 Speaker 1: And that is okay. This brings us back to the 1353 01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:49,479 Speaker 1: Axios blurb and general celebration of women's workforce participation. It 1354 01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,320 Speaker 1: may look like progress on its face, but what it 1355 01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:56,080 Speaker 1: probably means is that more mothers are entering the workforce 1356 01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:59,800 Speaker 1: or working full time against their wishes because they have to. 1357 01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:03,479 Speaker 1: And by the way, those wishes are totally fine. Working 1358 01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:07,040 Speaker 1: women owe a lot too. Second wave feminists, who liberated 1359 01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:10,600 Speaker 1: us from awful cycles of dependency, got us in academia, 1360 01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:14,360 Speaker 1: and fought for many classically liberal protections. A whole lot 1361 01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:16,720 Speaker 1: of women, myself included, are content to be in the 1362 01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:19,960 Speaker 1: workforce and find purpose and meaning in their professional lives. 1363 01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:22,360 Speaker 1: A whole lot of women, though, would rather be raising 1364 01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:24,960 Speaker 1: kids and doing the hard work of supporting healthy families 1365 01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:28,080 Speaker 1: and communities, and that is awesome. There are all kinds 1366 01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,360 Speaker 1: of different numbers that can be crunched here. The research 1367 01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:33,200 Speaker 1: on stay at home parenting can be mixed. Childcare is 1368 01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:37,280 Speaker 1: incredibly expensive. Women got hit hard by the pandemic layoffs. 1369 01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:39,720 Speaker 1: My mom worked a ton and I loved it. She's 1370 01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:42,519 Speaker 1: the most impressive woman I know. But if she's forty 1371 01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,880 Speaker 1: percent of the population, that's okay. All this is to say, 1372 01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:49,040 Speaker 1: when groups like the Center for American Progress celebrate women's 1373 01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:53,400 Speaker 1: and mother's labor force participation rates as quote improvements, they 1374 01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:57,240 Speaker 1: may be speaking more for themselves than for women in general. And, 1375 01:14:57,280 --> 01:14:59,720 Speaker 1: as Blake Master's campaigned on back in twenty twenty two, 1376 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,120 Speaker 1: politicians should be helping families who'd rather have a mom 1377 01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:06,519 Speaker 1: stay home with their kids supporting their household on one income, 1378 01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,639 Speaker 1: rather than taking the corporate bait and pushing more moms 1379 01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:13,000 Speaker 1: into the workforce against their wishes. There's also always been 1380 01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:14,760 Speaker 1: a dark side, we don't talk about it a lot 1381 01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,360 Speaker 1: to the corporate class's enthusiasm for women in the workforce. 1382 01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,719 Speaker 1: Christopher Caldwell noted this an age of entitlement, writing quote 1383 01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:25,680 Speaker 1: feminism offered corporations an excuse for breaking the implicit contract 1384 01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,040 Speaker 1: to pay any full time worker a wage he could 1385 01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:31,000 Speaker 1: raise a family on. It was feminism that provided, under 1386 01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,880 Speaker 1: pressure of the recessions of the nineteen seventies, a pretext 1387 01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:38,120 Speaker 1: for repurposing household and national budgets. Instead of being used 1388 01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:43,040 Speaker 1: for reproduction, those budgets would now be consumed. The increment 1389 01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:45,040 Speaker 1: in the family wage that had been meant for the 1390 01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:48,559 Speaker 1: raising of children was withdrawn. Families were no longer entitled 1391 01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:50,600 Speaker 1: to it. Mothers would have to enter the workplace to 1392 01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:52,760 Speaker 1: claim it, but they wound up getting only a small 1393 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,400 Speaker 1: part of it, and their competition drove down their husband's 1394 01:15:55,400 --> 01:16:00,000 Speaker 1: wages into the bargain. Earlier iterations of feminism celebrated womanhood 1395 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:03,400 Speaker 1: rather than trying to reshape women into men. We're different 1396 01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:05,960 Speaker 1: on average and in some really great ways, even as 1397 01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,559 Speaker 1: wealthy and educated elite woman push our culture ironically more 1398 01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:16,479 Speaker 1: towards a masculinized world. In the meantime, Ryan, what's your 1399 01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:20,240 Speaker 1: point today? So when people think lab leak for obvious reasons, 1400 01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,200 Speaker 1: they think wuhan. But there's been another outbreak that's been 1401 01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:25,360 Speaker 1: getting a second look over the years and that's the 1402 01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:29,360 Speaker 1: ebola outbreak in West Africa from twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen. 1403 01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:32,200 Speaker 1: The origin of that one was said to be a 1404 01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:35,800 Speaker 1: boy who was playing with bats, except the media made 1405 01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:38,600 Speaker 1: a critical mistake. It turned out the boy was not 1406 01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,360 Speaker 1: two years old as it was reported. He was eighteen 1407 01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:43,960 Speaker 1: months old. And that matters because if you've hung out 1408 01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:46,120 Speaker 1: with an eighteen month old lately, you know, it's not 1409 01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:49,439 Speaker 1: likely they'd be off playing by themselves in a hollow 1410 01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:52,160 Speaker 1: tree or a bush, which is what the story said 1411 01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:54,960 Speaker 1: at the time, and that's exactly it turns out what 1412 01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:58,679 Speaker 1: his father later told a journalist for Reuter's. He said, quote, 1413 01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,519 Speaker 1: it wasn't a meal that started it. Emil was too 1414 01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:04,960 Speaker 1: young to eat bats, and he was too small to 1415 01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,240 Speaker 1: be playing in the bush all on his own. He 1416 01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:11,479 Speaker 1: was always with his mother. So in an investigation published 1417 01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,880 Speaker 1: last fall by Independent Science News journalist Sam Husseini and 1418 01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:18,559 Speaker 1: virologist Jonathan Latham address other problems with the bat theory. 1419 01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:22,160 Speaker 1: For one, no bats or any other wildlife were found 1420 01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:24,879 Speaker 1: with that strain of a bola, and the species itself, 1421 01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:30,240 Speaker 1: the the zayeer ebolavirus comes from thousands of miles away 1422 01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:32,519 Speaker 1: and there's no explanation for how it traveled to West 1423 01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,040 Speaker 1: Africa without infecting anybody along the way. The dates also 1424 01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:38,439 Speaker 1: don't match up. The boy was first said to have 1425 01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:41,200 Speaker 1: died in early December, but that was then adjusted to 1426 01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:44,479 Speaker 1: late December, but that still leaves a huge gap between 1427 01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:47,439 Speaker 1: that and the first confirmed cases In March. Nobody from 1428 01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:50,760 Speaker 1: Emil's family, including a Meal, was tested for a bola 1429 01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,799 Speaker 1: and the symptoms that he had also match other diseases 1430 01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:57,240 Speaker 1: prevalent in Sub Saharan Africa. So the boy in the 1431 01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:00,760 Speaker 1: bat is one theory. The other theory focuses on a 1432 01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:04,920 Speaker 1: lab run by the US based Viral Hemorrhagic Fever Consortium 1433 01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:08,519 Speaker 1: in Cannami, Sierra Leone, near the border with Libya with 1434 01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,240 Speaker 1: Liberia in Guinea. Now, over the years, there's been a 1435 01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:13,960 Speaker 1: lot of speculation, now some of it backed up by 1436 01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:17,960 Speaker 1: strong evidence that ebola research was going on inside that lab, 1437 01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:20,680 Speaker 1: but there have also been strong denials that that was 1438 01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:25,040 Speaker 1: the case. Now one of the lead researchers there, Christian Anderson, 1439 01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:28,719 Speaker 1: has finally confirmed that yes, there was indeed a Bola 1440 01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:31,640 Speaker 1: research going on there. Take a listen. The problem is 1441 01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:34,920 Speaker 1: that people see these coincidences. One of the new ones 1442 01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:38,519 Speaker 1: is the Ebola lab Leaku, which also is being blamed 1443 01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:41,080 Speaker 1: on us because we have been studying ebola in Canama 1444 01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:44,440 Speaker 1: and Sierra Leone and Lo and behold, the Ebola emerged 1445 01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:48,280 Speaker 1: just a few miles from there in twenty fourteen, right 1446 01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:52,320 Speaker 1: obviously across the border in Guinea, but it's maybe one 1447 01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:55,800 Speaker 1: hundred miles or so away. And people then put that 1448 01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:58,400 Speaker 1: together and saying, oh, so that Ebola must have been 1449 01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:01,200 Speaker 1: aliab League too, and it was Robert Gary and Christian 1450 01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:05,320 Speaker 1: Andersen again. And the reason why these names keep coming up, 1451 01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:07,719 Speaker 1: and the reason why we get grant money to study 1452 01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:11,680 Speaker 1: infectious diseases is because we study infectious diseases and have 1453 01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:14,479 Speaker 1: done so for many, many decades. And that's why the 1454 01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:17,160 Speaker 1: names keep coming up again. Right, It's not because there's 1455 01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:21,160 Speaker 1: some major conspiracy theory here where all of us have 1456 01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:24,160 Speaker 1: been sort of fiddling with the fields well prior to 1457 01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:27,919 Speaker 1: the pandemic. And so what's actually remarkable about Anderson's admission 1458 01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,559 Speaker 1: there is that his colleague at the lab, Bob Gary, 1459 01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:33,960 Speaker 1: just recently denied that there was any Ebola research going 1460 01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:36,640 Speaker 1: on there, writing in a recent paper quote, in reality, 1461 01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,799 Speaker 1: we did not have ebov in our laboratory and therefore 1462 01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:43,280 Speaker 1: could not have released or engineered it. I reached out 1463 01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:45,879 Speaker 1: to Gary and Anderson, and I'll report back when they respond. 1464 01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,800 Speaker 1: Both of them have been among the most outspoken opponents 1465 01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,479 Speaker 1: of the COVID lableik theory, and both were part of 1466 01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:56,040 Speaker 1: the early brain Trust Anthony Fauci assembled in February twenty twenty. 1467 01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:59,400 Speaker 1: That group initially expressed openness to the idea of a lableak, 1468 01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,320 Speaker 1: but then days later ruled it out and organized the 1469 01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:05,680 Speaker 1: public letter dismissing the idea as a conspiracy theory. That 1470 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:09,240 Speaker 1: proximal origins letter was published in March and suppressed debate 1471 01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:13,479 Speaker 1: over the origin of COVID for the next year at least. 1472 01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:19,840 Speaker 1: So what I also found revealing potentially revealing about doctor 1473 01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:23,920 Speaker 1: Anderson's answer there is he said, he said, and and 1474 01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:26,400 Speaker 1: then there was an outbreak a few miles away. And 1475 01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:30,720 Speaker 1: then he paused and corrected himself and said, well, it 1476 01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,679 Speaker 1: was over the border in Guinea, and it was about 1477 01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:35,839 Speaker 1: one hundred miles away. Because and I would encourage everybody 1478 01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:39,920 Speaker 1: to read the Lathaman Who's saying the article that that 1479 01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,720 Speaker 1: dives into the actual origin of the pandemic, because the 1480 01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:46,160 Speaker 1: conventional wisdom is that it was that it started in 1481 01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:49,200 Speaker 1: Guinea with this this with his kid eating bats in 1482 01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:52,880 Speaker 1: a bush, and then it spread from there to Liberia 1483 01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:57,559 Speaker 1: and Sierra Leone. There there is a lot of evidence 1484 01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:01,160 Speaker 1: that in fact it started in Sierra Leone, so and 1485 01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:05,120 Speaker 1: and and Doctors Without Borders, which is operating in Sierra 1486 01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:09,680 Speaker 1: Leone U produced a report that was extraordinarily critical of 1487 01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:13,560 Speaker 1: this particular lab which was right near h where this 1488 01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:18,160 Speaker 1: uh where where MSF discovered this outbreak. And by the 1489 01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:22,720 Speaker 1: time they started testing for ebola in Sierra Leone, they 1490 01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:26,240 Speaker 1: were the first say like six cases had some had 1491 01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:29,800 Speaker 1: six uh you know, six different variations, and each of 1492 01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:32,479 Speaker 1: the mutations were like six degrees off. Like it just 1493 01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,599 Speaker 1: didn't make any sense that that it had just gotten there, 1494 01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:38,439 Speaker 1: Like it very much seemed to everybody there that it 1495 01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:40,120 Speaker 1: had been there for a couple of months and just 1496 01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:43,000 Speaker 1: hadn't and it just hadn't been getting picked up. It 1497 01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:45,240 Speaker 1: was that it was a Kinema lab that was doing 1498 01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:47,640 Speaker 1: that was doing a lot of the testing, and the 1499 01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,240 Speaker 1: w h O MSF have both accused that lab of 1500 01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:53,840 Speaker 1: of screwing up all the testing, of standing in the 1501 01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:56,040 Speaker 1: way of the of the testing at the time, So 1502 01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:58,880 Speaker 1: for him to say that the outbreak happened right near 1503 01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:01,880 Speaker 1: their lab and then correct himself say well, actually it 1504 01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,680 Speaker 1: happened one hundred miles away in Guiney. I think to 1505 01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:06,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people who've watched as close you will 1506 01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:09,360 Speaker 1: be revealing because they'll say, you're actually it did start 1507 01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:12,080 Speaker 1: right near your lap and then it went from there 1508 01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:16,360 Speaker 1: into Guinea, and it was suppressed first in Guinea because 1509 01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:19,320 Speaker 1: there wasn't enough testing going on in Sierra Leone, and 1510 01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:22,200 Speaker 1: so it kind of exploded there for a while. You 1511 01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:25,240 Speaker 1: zoom out to thirty thousand feet. I think a big 1512 01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,800 Speaker 1: takeaway from everything you just laid out is how much 1513 01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:34,440 Speaker 1: that this sort of the medical community, the medical establishment 1514 01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:38,639 Speaker 1: can get away with because other people cannot possibly follow 1515 01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:44,280 Speaker 1: the granularity of these conversations. The media can't do it, 1516 01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:47,560 Speaker 1: the public can't do it. Now obviously we can. You 1517 01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:50,880 Speaker 1: can raise questions exactly like the ones that you just raised, 1518 01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,799 Speaker 1: but these questions have been raised really in the background 1519 01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:58,920 Speaker 1: of our political discourse because they're actually pretty abstruse, like 1520 01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,320 Speaker 1: they're not that easy a lot onto and to follow, 1521 01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:05,760 Speaker 1: and so in that with the benefit of their expertise, 1522 01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:09,719 Speaker 1: which is in some ways held by a small group 1523 01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:14,080 Speaker 1: of people. You really escape a lot of judgment because 1524 01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:16,559 Speaker 1: of that, and God knows what you can get away 1525 01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:18,519 Speaker 1: with because of that. Yeah, and when you when you 1526 01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:22,120 Speaker 1: go back and look at the explanation that the major 1527 01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:24,559 Speaker 1: media gave for the start of the a bola outbreak, 1528 01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:28,920 Speaker 1: this this kid a meal and either what and it's bizarre, 1529 01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:31,560 Speaker 1: Like first it was reported December sixth, then it was 1530 01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:33,639 Speaker 1: then it was like, well, actually it was December twenty eighth, 1531 01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:37,840 Speaker 1: and then you have the major outbreak in March, and 1532 01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:39,920 Speaker 1: then you and then you dig further and you say, well, 1533 01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:44,000 Speaker 1: what what's the evidence that the scientif that these scientific 1534 01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:47,360 Speaker 1: investigators came up with to determine that it was this 1535 01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:50,320 Speaker 1: kid playing with these beats And you peel layer and 1536 01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:52,000 Speaker 1: layer and layer back and you're like, oh, there, there 1537 01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:54,880 Speaker 1: actually isn't any evidence here, Like the only evidence is 1538 01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:57,280 Speaker 1: that they say that the symptoms kind of align with 1539 01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:00,280 Speaker 1: the bola, right, But a bola has a lot of 1540 01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:02,160 Speaker 1: different symptoms and it hits people in a lot of 1541 01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:06,280 Speaker 1: different ways, and it you know, you know, conventionally people's 1542 01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:10,519 Speaker 1: doctors will say it's very difficult to diagnose a bullet 1543 01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:12,680 Speaker 1: just based on symptoms like you you actually have to 1544 01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:14,800 Speaker 1: do in a bullet test because there's there are so 1545 01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:18,599 Speaker 1: many other diseases that have those very similar symptoms. Uh. 1546 01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:22,720 Speaker 1: And so then you then you ask, well, how how 1547 01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,120 Speaker 1: is it that this explanation, which turned out not to 1548 01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,800 Speaker 1: be based on you know, anything concrete, like no, no 1549 01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,639 Speaker 1: test was done, was most smoking gun and said, well, yep, 1550 01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:34,080 Speaker 1: all right, we found we found the bat uh we 1551 01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:37,679 Speaker 1: test or or even we tested anyone in his family 1552 01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,799 Speaker 1: or in the village in the in the days around 1553 01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:44,640 Speaker 1: that and confirmed that yes, this was a bowl of Uh. 1554 01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:47,800 Speaker 1: You're like, how how did that just become Okay, that's it, 1555 01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:50,559 Speaker 1: open and shut. We're gonna we're gonna move We're gonna 1556 01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,400 Speaker 1: move on from that. And then you start just and 1557 01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:55,880 Speaker 1: then you say, oh wait, there was so actually right 1558 01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:59,240 Speaker 1: over here there was this lab that was working working 1559 01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:04,120 Speaker 1: on hemorrhagic pathogens, which doesn't that include ebola. And then 1560 01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:06,600 Speaker 1: if you look a lot of the scientists working in 1561 01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:10,479 Speaker 1: that lab have backgrounds in abola. A lot of published 1562 01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:13,840 Speaker 1: work related to abola out of that lab. But you 1563 01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,560 Speaker 1: never really could you know, there was still denials that 1564 01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:21,840 Speaker 1: anything even recently gary. But then so to have Anderson. 1565 01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:25,800 Speaker 1: I'm curious to see how he'll respond because I don't 1566 01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:28,800 Speaker 1: think he meant to necessarily kind of confirm that they 1567 01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:31,000 Speaker 1: were doing that work in that lab. So this is 1568 01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:33,600 Speaker 1: just one piece of our reporting on this. None of 1569 01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:38,120 Speaker 1: this is to say that it definitely leaked from this lab. 1570 01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:41,720 Speaker 1: Will continue to follow this up and be great to 1571 01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:44,800 Speaker 1: get Sam Musani and Jonathan Latham have done great work 1572 01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:48,000 Speaker 1: on this on later and we can probe a lot 1573 01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:50,120 Speaker 1: of the different points because I think it is really important. 1574 01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:54,360 Speaker 1: And also last point here, so do you remember that 1575 01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:57,400 Speaker 1: Ron Klaine was the one who was brought in to 1576 01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:01,000 Speaker 1: do the Ebola response in twenty fourteen, and Harold, like 1577 01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:03,519 Speaker 1: everybody involved, was like he did a tremendous job. Like 1578 01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:05,880 Speaker 1: the heck of a job. Bread have a job, Ron, 1579 01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,920 Speaker 1: like he when he after he came in, things started 1580 01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,960 Speaker 1: moving properly and they did contain the the Ebola epidemic, 1581 01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:17,439 Speaker 1: which thank god, because absolutely horrifying disease if it ever 1582 01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:21,280 Speaker 1: does break out and become kind of endemic. Uh. The 1583 01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:25,920 Speaker 1: day that he was appointed UH to be the thear 1584 01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:30,360 Speaker 1: the Ebola z are, that's when the Obama administration introduced 1585 01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:34,760 Speaker 1: its pause into Gain of Function research they also did 1586 01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:37,840 Speaker 1: not renew funding for this lab. That is a very 1587 01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:42,160 Speaker 1: interesting point in the timeline. Yeah, that's very very interesting. 1588 01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:44,320 Speaker 1: And now at the same time, there were some lab 1589 01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:47,280 Speaker 1: accidents that had happened in the United States that might 1590 01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:50,240 Speaker 1: have been the trigger for the gain of function pause, 1591 01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:54,120 Speaker 1: But also why did they why did they pull the 1592 01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:56,120 Speaker 1: funding from the lab? And then at the same time, 1593 01:26:56,640 --> 01:26:59,280 Speaker 1: you know what, what did what did they know? What did? 1594 01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:02,719 Speaker 1: In investigators? No, if you talk about this in Africa, 1595 01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:06,400 Speaker 1: it's almost taken as a granted like in Sieria Leone. Yeah, 1596 01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:10,160 Speaker 1: I came from that lap. Yeah, I mean to the 1597 01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:12,400 Speaker 1: extent their silver linings from the pandemic. One of them 1598 01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:16,560 Speaker 1: might be knowing the right questions to ask about some 1599 01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,240 Speaker 1: of the stuff. And also I think taking whistleblowers and 1600 01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:22,400 Speaker 1: people in the medical community who are raising questions and 1601 01:27:22,479 --> 01:27:25,720 Speaker 1: asking those questions seriously and giving them space in the 1602 01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:29,559 Speaker 1: press the extent that you can to air those opinions 1603 01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:36,640 Speaker 1: out and raise those questions. Well, that's the end of 1604 01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,080 Speaker 1: our show today here in conference Wednesday. We will be 1605 01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:43,200 Speaker 1: back next week, of course, Ryan, any any parting shots, 1606 01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:45,680 Speaker 1: any final thoughts here, That's all I got. That's all 1607 01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:47,840 Speaker 1: you got. Everything I had on the field. I heard 1608 01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:52,000 Speaker 1: that you wrote you asked chat Gpt to write a 1609 01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:58,800 Speaker 1: Phish song about Oh. Yes, well it was so fast. 1610 01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:00,760 Speaker 1: I just haven't close because I don't know what to 1611 01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:02,920 Speaker 1: deal with it. I write a song in the style 1612 01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:04,880 Speaker 1: of the band Fish about the soul of a lizard. 1613 01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:06,760 Speaker 1: Wanted to give it a little prompt, give us a taste. 1614 01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,679 Speaker 1: Let's say the chorus, Oh the soul of a lizard, 1615 01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,519 Speaker 1: so cool and calm, living life in its own rhythm 1616 01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:20,080 Speaker 1: and psalm. It works so well, Oh the soul of 1617 01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:22,639 Speaker 1: a lizard, so cool and calm, And shake a lesson 1618 01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:24,720 Speaker 1: from the lizard's soul, and find your way to be 1619 01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,439 Speaker 1: whole in this world that moves so fast. Slow down 1620 01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:29,840 Speaker 1: and find your own rhythm to last. That's a little 1621 01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:33,160 Speaker 1: bit preachier than you might get from Fish, But your 1622 01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:35,200 Speaker 1: prompt is a little I mean, of course, when you 1623 01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:37,880 Speaker 1: think about the soul of a lizard, you can't help 1624 01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:41,600 Speaker 1: but fall into preachiness. Yeah, it's true. I should not 1625 01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:44,200 Speaker 1: be laughing at this us. This technology is absolutely terrifying, 1626 01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:46,840 Speaker 1: but it is great work. Ran, you got it. We'll 1627 01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:49,879 Speaker 1: see you back here at Counterpoints Wednesday. Next Wednesday,