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Speaker 1: Who doesn't love UFOs. Some people make an entire career

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Speaker 1: off studying some or multiple facets of strange things in

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Speaker 1: the sky.

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Speaker 2: We call them ufologist, mofonbaby, MoveOn dot org.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a mutual network of enthusiasts.

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Speaker 1: It's surprising because so many experts in other scientific disciplines

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Speaker 1: start applying their knowledge towards UFOs, like an astrophysicist, someone

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Speaker 1: who specializes in chemistry or material science. But our question

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Speaker 1: that we ask in this classic episode is how do

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Speaker 1: you become a credentialed ufologist? Is there a school? Is

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Speaker 1: there an academy? Is there you know, a course at

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Speaker 1: Harvard or Stanford or der or something.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because this conversation is definitely way way

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Speaker 2: before a lot of the more kind of mass acceptance

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Speaker 2: that this could well be a potential reality. So you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, for for many years, this has always been

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Speaker 2: looked at as kind of a fringe pursuit. And I'm

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Speaker 2: interested to see now where things go if it does

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Speaker 2: become a little bit more accepted or there becomes more

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Speaker 2: of like an official field of study for this, because

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Speaker 2: there is and there isn't in this episode, but it's

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Speaker 2: it's largely you know, kind of sneezed at by the

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Speaker 2: scientific community.

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Speaker 3: It was right after Tom Tom DeLong made all the

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Speaker 3: announcements and everything right not right after, but this is

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Speaker 3: like a little bit after that. So I bet the

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Speaker 3: interest was super high at this time. I don't really

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Speaker 3: imagine it's skyrocketing.

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Speaker 4: Where it is now.

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Speaker 2: And it just again being approached with a lot less

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Speaker 2: kind of funny faces being made.

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Speaker 1: And we had, you know, I think we all shared

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Speaker 1: a mutual sadness about the breakup of Blink one eight two.

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Speaker 1: They're back. They're back, So the future isn't always terrible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, let's find out how to be a genuine ufologist.

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Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 5: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, Matt,

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Speaker 3: You're back. I'm here.

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Speaker 4: It's me and Noll.

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Speaker 1: Hey, they call me Ben. We are joined, of course,

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Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Decatt, and we hope you

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Speaker 1: join us in welcoming back. Matt Frederick, you are here.

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Speaker 1: You are you, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. This episode is meant to answer

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Speaker 1: a question that we stumbled upon in our earlier conversations

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Speaker 1: with John Goforth. Remember that, Matt, we talked with go

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Speaker 1: Forth about Tom DeLong and disclosure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I think it did come up. How

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Speaker 3: do you become an expert?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 3: What are the means to be an expert in these things?

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Speaker 2: I was super bummed to have missed that one. So

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Speaker 2: I am going to be learning some new stuff today.

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Speaker 3: Excellent.

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Speaker 1: Hey, who knows we might end the show by becoming

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Speaker 1: ufologist ourselves. This question was posed to us by one

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Speaker 1: of our co workers, Jason Koch, So shout out to you, Jason,

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Speaker 1: and thanks for the recommendation.

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Speaker 4: You think work will pay for it.

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Speaker 1: That's that's up to debate. Hey, do us a favor

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Speaker 1: if you want to help us become credited ufologists.

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Speaker 4: Go to gofund me dot com slash stdwy t K.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say right to our bosses, you know

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Speaker 1: what do both?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: They do both.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's today's question. How exactly does someone become

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Speaker 1: a ufologist? We hear about ufologists often. You'll see them

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Speaker 1: in things like ancient aliens on History Channel.

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Speaker 6: You'll see them quoted in.

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Speaker 1: Different television programs like The Old Unsolved Mysteries and so on.

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Speaker 1: But to explore how somebody goes from just being an

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Speaker 1: average a civilian in the world of UFOs to becoming

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Speaker 1: a noted expert of some sort or another, we have

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Speaker 1: to first figure out what a ufologist is. So here

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Speaker 1: are the facts. The term ufologist comes from. Obviously UFO

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Speaker 1: that dates back to nineteen fifty three, when it was

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Speaker 1: an abbreviation of the earlier term unidentified flying object that

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Speaker 1: came around nineteen fifty basic stuff, And they do what

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Speaker 1: it says on the tin. They study reports of unidentified

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Speaker 1: aerial phenomenon or flying objects. But there's a weird tricky

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Speaker 1: thing here when you think about it, because once you

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Speaker 1: identify the thing, are you really still a ufologist, or

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Speaker 1: you know, if it's a weather pattern, have you accidentally

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Speaker 1: become a meteorist, If it's a bird, have you become

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Speaker 1: an ornithologist.

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Speaker 2: I'm just fascinated by the fact that these credentials come

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Speaker 2: in at ten with instructions.

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Speaker 3: I think one thing we're going to notice here is

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Speaker 3: that historically, when you maybe are considered a ufologists, you

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Speaker 3: probably have a degree in some related field, yes, like

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Speaker 3: what like a meteorologist or an other ologist, well, yeah, orics. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: physics is a really big one. If you're let's see

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Speaker 3: you and if you're an engineer and you make airplanes

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Speaker 3: or something to that effect.

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Speaker 1: An aerospace engineer, yeah, that could come in handy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we'll find that the interdisciplinary nature of this is

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Speaker 1: both a blessing and the curse for the professional ufologist

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Speaker 1: out there. About how many are there, funny you should ask,

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Speaker 1: there are no accurate figures on that number. The one

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Speaker 1: thing we found that had an indication at least of

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Speaker 1: the education level. Going to your point, Matt, about their degrees.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy six, the Center for UFO Studies conducted

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Speaker 1: a voluntary poll amid its donors, and they found that

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Speaker 1: of the one hundred and sixty one people who responded,

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Speaker 1: one fifth of them had PhD degrees and seventy five

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Speaker 1: percent had earned at least a bachelor's degree or higher.

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Speaker 1: The most common degrees were in physics and engineering. And

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Speaker 1: their jobs, as it's reported in this paper, are you

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Speaker 1: pretty white collar professional things. Doctors, lawyers, engineers of course,

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Speaker 1: and professors, which is strange because they were dedicating their

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Speaker 1: free time to this study of unidentified phenomenon or objects,

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Speaker 1: and in their day jobs, these people are considered credible scientists.

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Speaker 1: But ufology today is still widely considered a pseudoscience.

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Speaker 2: So you can't go to a reputable university and get

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Speaker 2: a degree in ufology.

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Speaker 6: Not for the most parts, got it.

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Speaker 3: And in that survey, these are just people who are interested, right,

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Speaker 3: These are people who donated to a thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they donate to a thing. They go to the conferences,

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Speaker 1: the networks.

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Speaker 3: Cool, so they have an active interest in it. They're

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Speaker 3: in one of those outside professions.

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Speaker 1: They're probably not out protesting in front of the White

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Speaker 1: House in the seventies for disclosure. But yeah, no traditional

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Speaker 1: colleges or universities offer specific degree programs in what we

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Speaker 1: would call ufology. However, there are some courses available online.

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Speaker 1: For instance, the International Metaphysical University offers six courses in

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Speaker 1: ufology studies, including Introduction to Ethology. It's taught by an

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Speaker 1: historian named Richard Dolan, and the online courses have twelve

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Speaker 1: lectures each that cover different different ideas. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: have the names of them that I think indicate a

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Speaker 1: little bit of bias.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, things like what are UFOs? It's a good place

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Speaker 2: to start of ancient visitation.

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Speaker 1: Not as good me it just it feels a little

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Speaker 1: like they're stacking the deck.

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Speaker 2: I say, I got you, and then the early cover up.

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Speaker 2: Does the Great Courses offer this?

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Speaker 1: Hey, I've missed the Great Courses. Those things were fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, man, we can still get them, right, Great Courses

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Speaker 2: dot COM's last conspiracy maybe is still active.

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Speaker 4: Who knows?

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Speaker 3: There are also just so you know, other electure titles

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Speaker 3: like weird science, propulsion, energy, space time and Consciousness.

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Speaker 1: Is that consciousness separate from space time or space time

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Speaker 1: and conscious I.

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Speaker 3: Think it's all of it wrapped up together.

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Speaker 1: More bang for your buck?

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Speaker 6: Huh.

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Speaker 3: Digging deeper? The Breakaway Civilization? What is that?

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Speaker 1: Would that be? Would that be a hypothetical civilization that

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Speaker 1: breaks away from Earth and lives in space?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. You gotta take the course.

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Speaker 1: Got to take the course. Yeah, and this is the

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Speaker 1: this is extant. You can go and take the course. Now,

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Speaker 1: you can enroll and you can see some tech stimonies

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Speaker 1: from people who've taken the course, and you can read

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Speaker 1: about the grading system all you can get all the

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Speaker 1: details all you have to do is visit intermetu dot

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Speaker 1: com I N T E R M e t U

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Speaker 1: dot com. This is not free, No, we should point

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Speaker 1: that out. You know what the Breakaway civilization is, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting.

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Speaker 2: It's this idea of this alternate reality that exists only

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Speaker 2: in like five hundred million pages of classified documents. So

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Speaker 2: it's sort of this like meta reality that supposedly the

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Speaker 2: information exists to understand, but we don't have.

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Speaker 4: Access to it.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, And when I say reality, I just mean

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Speaker 2: you know, cover ups and the stuff that is known

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Speaker 2: but not known to us.

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Speaker 1: So it's an alternate reality physically earthly, right, just like

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Speaker 1: the you know, the behind the curtain kind of stuff.

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Speaker 4: I've never heard that term before.

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Speaker 1: I like, let's do an episode on that like it.

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Speaker 1: We may have to invest, however, if we want to

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Speaker 1: use this course as the basis for our future episode

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Speaker 1: on Breakaways, because the courses cost around two hundred to

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Speaker 1: four hundred dollars each, and this can be you can see.

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Speaker 6: How this could become expensive.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: And let's say you decide to become a ufologist, but

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Speaker 1: you say, you know what, I don't want to rely

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Speaker 1: on self education a lot of people who describe themselves

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Speaker 1: as ufologists. You're doing it based on research after an

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Speaker 1: event that they have experienced firsthand, or something they've seen,

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Speaker 1: something that touched them in their personal lives. So they're

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Speaker 1: self directing. And there's nothing wrong with self directed research.

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Speaker 1: Some of the most important scientists and philosophers in human

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Speaker 1: history we're just on their own, reading books they thought

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Speaker 1: were interesting, and writing other things as well. But let's

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Speaker 1: say you don't feel completely comfortable doing self education. You

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Speaker 1: sign up for something like this program at International Metaphysical University,

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Speaker 1: You finish that twelve lecture course and boom, you're out

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Speaker 1: of school. You have to get a job, right, So

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Speaker 1: what do you do for a living with this with

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Speaker 1: this degree?

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Speaker 3: Basically, you try and give talks wherever you can give talks,

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Speaker 3: or you get in contact with people who have footage

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Speaker 3: of something. You study that footage, or you watch the

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Speaker 3: sky and you wait and then hopefully write books about it.

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Speaker 3: Those are my that's my understanding. Is there anything else?

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Speaker 1: I You know, it's funny you say this because it

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Speaker 1: reminds me of some of my friends who were who

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Speaker 1: became sociologists. They get their PhDs in sociology, and so

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Speaker 1: what do you do with that? And they said, teach

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Speaker 1: sociology classes. Oh okay, it's so maybe a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who become ufologists through this path begin teaching or

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Speaker 1: transmitting their own knowledge and experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I can go to the International Metaphysical thing

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Speaker 3: and pay four hundred dollars and get my degree. Why

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Speaker 3: would I need to learn from you, u afologist guy

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Speaker 3: who just got your degree.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they are adding more to that base education. Gocha,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a good question, right. The university

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Speaker 1: website notes that ufologists can seek work as lecturers, writers,

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Speaker 1: movie consultants, which sounds pretty cool, or political activists similar

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Speaker 1: to Tom DeLong and Luis Elisondo working toward disclosure or

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Speaker 1: working in the political and government arena on the area

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Speaker 1: of UFOs in preparation for contact or landings.

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Speaker 3: All right, there we go.

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Speaker 6: There are a couple of other things they say you

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Speaker 6: can do as well.

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Speaker 3: So prepare for contact. I like that a lot you

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Speaker 3: could work, I guess. Yeah. This does note that you

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Speaker 3: can work as a professional hypnotist and or what does

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Speaker 3: this say? A life co coach for people who claim

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Speaker 3: to have had abduction experiences.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and the university, for their part, makes no

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Speaker 1: claims about the employment chances after completing the course. You

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Speaker 1: know how some universities or colleges for certain courses will

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Speaker 1: say ninety percent of our graduates are placed in a

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Speaker 1: job within the first six months after graduation.

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Speaker 3: And you know, to be fair, this is an audio course.

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Speaker 3: You're listening to lectures by Richard Dolan. That's what you're doing.

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Speaker 3: You're listening to a podcast essentially by Richard Dolan and

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Speaker 3: then taking notes and having discussion.

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Speaker 4: So there's no like testing.

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Speaker 3: It's all it's an all online course. I'm certain there

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Speaker 3: is test. Yeah, but in this case it's a prepared

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Speaker 3: lecture essentially like you would get out of college. I

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Speaker 3: guess there's just no.

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Speaker 4: There's back and forth.

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Speaker 1: Yet the course has let's see, the course has several

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Speaker 1: quizzes and then they have a mid term assignment and

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Speaker 1: a final exam.

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Speaker 2: Do you think you could find any of them that

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Speaker 2: to try to quiz ourselves, just to see if we

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Speaker 2: could do it cold?

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Speaker 1: I wonder if we could. We could probably dig into

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Speaker 1: it and see.

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Speaker 4: I'd be interested.

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Speaker 3: Do Let's do a series of two or three episodes

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Speaker 3: where we just take this course live on the show.

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Speaker 4: I bet they would probably take issue with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, surely that's illegal.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's just contact Richard Dolan and see if he'll

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Speaker 3: come in and talk with us. I mean, he's an author,

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Speaker 3: he's made he's written several books that you end up

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Speaker 3: reading or are asked to read or suggested in a syllabus.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Well that's a great idea.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that is a great idea there.

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Speaker 1: If you don't want to go that route for some reason,

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Speaker 1: there are two other online in universities we found that

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Speaker 1: offer similar courses. There's the IMHS Metaphysical Institute and the

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Speaker 1: Center for Excellence in the United Kingdom. They offer full

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Speaker 1: degree programs as well. And Matt, you've looked at some

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Speaker 1: of this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Ufology diploma course from the Center of Excellence

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Speaker 3: only costs one hundred and twenty seven pounds. That's britty

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Speaker 3: sure for the whole course. Yeah, and you can you

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Speaker 3: can even finance the course. You put twenty nine pounds down,

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Speaker 3: then you pay sixteen thirty three for six months.

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Speaker 2: I mean, even if it's a scam, that's a pretty

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Speaker 2: affordable scam.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you can go over. I mean they've got

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Speaker 3: some information about what you're gonna learn. But it's I

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Speaker 3: would say it's pretty limited as far as I mean.

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Speaker 3: It gives you kind of a course syllabus.

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Speaker 1: It's like an introduction class, an introductory course rather, so

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Speaker 1: it talks a little bit about the history of the

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Speaker 1: search for UFOs, a little bit about the present day,

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Speaker 1: and then it seems to end on how addressing how

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Speaker 1: a student can get involved. But there there are some

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Speaker 1: things that will I'm sure drive the more skeptical of

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Speaker 1: us in the audience insane. Like in their rite up

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Speaker 1: they say, quote, the Ufology Diploma course provides insight into

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Speaker 1: the technologies they're likely used to propel UFOs and different

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Speaker 1: kinds of craft and their purposes. So they're not saying

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Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out what these are. They're claiming

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Speaker 1: that they have in fact identified the unidentified objects.

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Speaker 3: There you go. Another thing that we should point out

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Speaker 3: for this is that this course is certified by the IAHT,

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Speaker 3: the International Alliance of Holistic Therapists. That's claimed on the website.

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Speaker 1: There, and I wonder what they have to do with ufology.

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Speaker 2: Well, so it inherently has kind of a new age

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Speaker 2: bent to it.

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Speaker 1: It would appear to be the case. Yeah, unless the

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Speaker 1: IAHT is more familiar with this sort of stuff, because

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Speaker 1: one would assume that most ufology questions are going to

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Speaker 1: be related to things like the nature of physics and

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Speaker 1: aviation and again meteorology. But perhaps there's more to the story.

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Speaker 1: So what do you do if you say, Okay, I've

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Speaker 1: seen that. I appreciate it, but I think I want

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Speaker 1: something more traditional. I want more formal education, like to

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Speaker 1: your point, NOL, I want to go to Rutgers or

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Speaker 1: to Yale or something. I learned this. It can be

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Speaker 1: difficult for a budding ufologists to find the right path

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Speaker 1: of study because of the inherently interdisciplinary nature of this research.

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Speaker 1: Like if we go back to our earlier example, should

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Speaker 1: a ufologist first study engineering, or should they study physics,

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Speaker 1: Should they study meteorology or psychology, or folklore or sociology

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Speaker 1: or just all of them at once?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I mean it is a bit of a

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Speaker 2: grab bag because there's certainly science involved in astronomy, involved

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Speaker 2: in the idea of studying space, but it's also wrapped

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Speaker 2: into a lot of pop culture ideas and a lot

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Speaker 2: of folkloric ideas or things that are not quite provable

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Speaker 2: so there's a lot of conceptual thought behind it as well.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting.

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Speaker 3: Sure, making yourself aware of a lot of the folklore

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Speaker 3: surrounding the event of a UFO will give you an

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Speaker 3: idea as to what are these people maybe think they're

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Speaker 3: seeing in their heads when they're viewing some object in

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Speaker 3: the air. That's all I wanted to say.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's a dilemma.

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Speaker 1: You know, for many people UFU enthusiasts and skeptics light

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Speaker 1: this feels problematic. Some of the skeptics in the audience

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Speaker 1: now might think these are just wastes of money, or

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Speaker 1: even worse, a purposeful con job. As we've said, Matt

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Speaker 1: Nolan and I have not taken these courses and we

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Speaker 1: haven't yet seen material from them, so you can't really

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Speaker 1: comment too deeply on what they actually are. I think

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Speaker 1: that idea of taking a test is fascinating. But people

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Speaker 1: who actively research UFOs and perhaps feel that they have

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Speaker 1: a specific line on it, that they've found a previously

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Speaker 1: unexplained whether phenomenon, or they've proven there's extraterrestrial involvement, they

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Speaker 1: might feel this type of education is unnecessary or misdirected,

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Speaker 1: and they say, well, maybe we're better off studying just

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Speaker 1: orthodox meteorology, old school aerospace engineering. Will the time of

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Speaker 1: a professional ufologist be better spent in the field chasing

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Speaker 1: reports and gathering firsthand experience?

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Speaker 4: And I mean anybody can do that.

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Speaker 2: You could be a hobbyist ufologist in that respect of

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Speaker 2: just paying attention to the clues and writing things down

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Speaker 2: and submitting your reports. But it feels to me like

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Speaker 2: if you really wanted to be in a position to

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Speaker 2: really catch something like this, you would be studying one

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Speaker 2: of these other more traditional fields like astronomy, for example,

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Speaker 2: that would give you the skills needed to actually see

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Speaker 2: a UFO if it.

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Speaker 4: Were to be a thing. I don't know, it's interesting

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Speaker 4: to me.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a great point. Oh and that's right.

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Speaker 1: We buried the lead a little bit. We should mention this.

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Speaker 1: It's true there are professional uithologists, and we'll explore their

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Speaker 1: stories after a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 2: So while most mainstream media outlets tend to portray these

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Speaker 2: ufologists or people that study UFOs in generalize to crackpots

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Speaker 2: or or you know, misguided, there is some truth in

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Speaker 2: the idea that multiple places do actually employ professional ufologists.

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Speaker 4: And we're not talking about what's that guy from ancient Aliens?

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Speaker 3: His name Richard Dolan.

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Speaker 2: Richard Dolan not talking about him, he is, though, Slucos.

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Speaker 1: What's that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Or there are so many that we've discussed in

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Speaker 3: the past, the Hand of the god s guy.

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Speaker 1: Eric von Denikin.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about real you know, human people, not television

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Speaker 2: presenters say.

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Speaker 3: Those are real human pect I know, I.

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Speaker 2: Know, but I don't believe it until I see them

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Speaker 2: in the flesh. I think they could be just conjured.

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Speaker 6: Okay, oh yeah, well we do know.

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Speaker 1: The technology exists to completely impersonate them.

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Speaker 4: It's true.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, we're talking about people who get paid money

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Speaker 2: currency to spend time trying to determine the true nature

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Speaker 2: of these unknown aerial phenomena, or.

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Speaker 3: At least at one time, we're paid by a government

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Speaker 3: even to do so.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, Nick Pope, are we talking about Nick Pope?

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Speaker 1: What's going on with this Nick Pope guy?

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Speaker 3: He's the real molder, He's the one.

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Speaker 1: He's the chosen one.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's true.

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Speaker 1: He is a career civil server, or he was at

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Speaker 1: the time in the United Kingdom, and the Ministry of

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Speaker 1: Defense gave him a weird job in nineteen ninety one.

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Speaker 6: He works at a thing called the UFO Desk.

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Speaker 2: Yeah pretty cool, yeah, man, And apparently it gets between

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Speaker 2: two hundred and three hundred reports a year of sightings

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Speaker 2: and his job is to follow up one on one interesting, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I bet some of those calls are pretty wild.

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Speaker 3: We should say he did or he was or just

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Speaker 3: in the past ten because this is uh nineteen ninety one, right,

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Speaker 3: m two years before the old X Files comes.

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Speaker 1: Out, which is like our favorite show.

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Speaker 3: The best show, and I don't care who you are.

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Speaker 4: That's that's true.

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Speaker 2: All around, but was recently is May twenty ninth of

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, he put out a tweet talking about the

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Speaker 2: Pentagon's UFO program and how they also studied poltergeist activity

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Speaker 2: and goes back and mentions, when I ran the UK

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Speaker 2: government's UFO project, we were the focal point for all

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Speaker 2: the quote weird stuff, cropsrop circles, yeah, ghosts, you know,

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Speaker 2: weird stuff, wacky stuff. Both the US and the UK

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Speaker 2: programs were real life X files.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And he so what he would do from nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: one to nineteen ninety four, which is great because that

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Speaker 1: means he was still doing this when the first season

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Speaker 1: of X Files came out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes you think he got on the phone

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Speaker 3: with somebody, maybe Chris Carter.

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Speaker 1: That would be fantastic. I would We'd love to interview

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Speaker 1: all the people we're mentioning at this point too, So

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Speaker 1: let us know who you would like to hear from

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Speaker 1: in a subsequent episode. So his job was just that

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Speaker 1: he would get a report. Somebody would say, oh, there's

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Speaker 1: a maybe a crop circle or a haunted place, or

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Speaker 1: there's a strange light that's been appearing, you know on

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Speaker 1: don Over on Sandwich or whatever whatever British village. I'm

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Speaker 1: just making up names.

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Speaker 3: I want to go there.

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Speaker 1: I want to go to Donover on Sandwich. And so

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Speaker 1: he would travel to the place, he would interview people,

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Speaker 1: he would verify the precise time of the report, the

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Speaker 1: precise location, and he would check those facts against something

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Speaker 1: that he called the usual suspects.

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Speaker 3: A true investigator and that's what he is. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's a paranormal investigator.

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Speaker 4: Have we heard about what his credentials are? No?

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Speaker 3: Would you like to talk about this?

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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 1: What a journalist?

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Speaker 2: Right, that's a good I think that's a good start too,

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Speaker 2: as far as just being able to kind of be

444
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: a detective and you know, follow the leads and follow

445
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 2: the clues. I think a journalist would be a great

446
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: way to study this kind of stuff if you so chose.

447
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: What about a podcaster?

448
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 6: Well, there you go, hey, dream big, right? Got so?

449
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: He also he says that he started from a baseline

450
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: of zero when he was assigned this UFO desk, and

451
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: it was not based on any prior knowledge or personal

452
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: interest on his part. So he was a little maybe

453
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,959
Speaker 1: less I don't want to say less enthusiastic, because he's

454
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: definitely still professional. But he Our point is he wasn't

455
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: going home at night looking at the truth as out there.

456
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 3: A poster because they weren't out yet, because they.

457
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 6: Weren't out yet.

458
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, fair play, he got me. I was trying

459
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: to slide that one by you. But don't you have

460
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: one of those posters? Yeah, it's so awesome. We should

461
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: get more around the office. Okay, how many is too many?

462
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 3: Seventeen?

463
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 6: Okay, great, so we'll stick to sixty.

464
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 3: Okay.

465
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: So he Yeah, he's a journalist. He's objectively digging into things,

466
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: and if you are an investigative journalist, you still apply

467
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: the same methods to any investigation. So he's doing the

468
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,239
Speaker 1: same sort of leg work that a good reporter would do,

469
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: and he found that there were a lot of simple

470
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: explanations for what people were reporting.

471
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, almost ninety five percent of the cases that he

472
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 3: was presented with, right, And it's always something like what

473
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 3: a weather balloon and aircraft flight. The things you hear

474
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 3: about swamp gas, maybe, but probably not very often.

475
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: I still, you know, I have a hard time saying

476
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: swamp gas when it comes up all the time on

477
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: our show. But something about those the A and swamp

478
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: and the A and gas make it really difficult for

479
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 1: me not to say it in a weird accident.

480
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 4: Like swamp gas. Yeah, was there another one swamp gas? Oh?

481
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: There you go?

482
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 4: Swamp gas? You ever did?

483
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: We had a guy that came to our school when

484
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 2: I was a kid named Okie Finoki Joe. You'd always

485
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 2: talk about being swamp wise. Swamp would be swamp wise.

486
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not quite sure what he meant.

487
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 3: I took a tour with Okino Joe. Yeah, I was

488
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 3: a kid. Hey, guy down in an old oak from

489
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 3: swamp Were you swamp wise? We did a swamp tour?

490
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: Would you get a snake bit I did not then

491
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 3: you were swamp wise.

492
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: This is a real thing. Yeah, yeah, I think it was.

493
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 3: That's funny.

494
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a nice and Augusta George. I think

495
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 4: he just like made the rounds. You know, I don't

496
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 4: think I ever met.

497
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 6: I haven't had the privilege.

498
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 4: I really missed out.

499
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 6: Is there more than one oak.

500
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 4: For Joe as possible?

501
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: Is there a lineage like how there's more than one McGruff?

502
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: There must be? There must be, But I mean with

503
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 3: around the same time. I bet it was. I bet

504
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: it's the same one.

505
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 6: Swamp gas O.

506
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 3: Well, instead of swamp gash, just say naturally occurring bioluminescence.

507
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: All right, I think we both know. I'm going to

508
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: stick with saying swamp gas in a bad accent.

509
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 4: Swamp Oh say it like that. It sounds like you

510
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 4: got a touch of the swamp cat. There we go.

511
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: Is that our new euphemism for really bad farts and

512
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: terrible flatialism?

513
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 2: Flatialism and this has been our childish aside for today's episode.

514
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: So important, but yeah, yes, thank you forgetting us back

515
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: on track. Yeah. So those things that like you were saying, Matt,

516
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: that would be the usual suspects, lights, weather, balloons, swamp gas.

517
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: So this is weird though, because it means that five

518
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: percent of these cases could not be explained.

519
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then his real job, why he was employed there,

520
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: is to take that five percent and then go nothing

521
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: to see here?

522
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that weird? His job was not to say, hey,

523
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: look at these inexplicable things. His job was to downplay

524
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: the importance of that to the public. Keep calm, carry on,

525
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: God save the Queen, et cetera, et cetera, and the.

526
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: But not only to the media and the public, to

527
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 3: the lawmakers themselves.

528
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: To Parliament, don't worry about this.

529
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 4: To what end though?

530
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: You know, it depends on where you're coming from. So

531
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: if you believe that the government is actively suppressing knowledge

532
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: of something, then it's his job to keep people sort

533
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: of blissfully ignorant, right, But like Will Smith and Tommy

534
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: Lee Jones and the Men in Black. But if it's

535
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: if we're looking at it from a more skeptical standpoint,

536
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: people would say it's his job to stop people from

537
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: becoming alarmed unnecessarily. So he's trying to quell panic.

538
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 4: I see, I see.

539
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 3: And he's also a first level gatekeeper for whatever other

540
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: governmental organization is going to actually look into that five percent,

541
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 3: So he, in my mind, he doesn't even have to

542
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: fully look into that five percent. I mean, he's doing

543
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: all the investigation, he's talking to witnesses, he's doing all this.

544
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 3: But if you get way down into it and truly

545
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: trying to figure out what it is.

546
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: It's worth passing on to someone that can actually do

547
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: something about.

548
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 3: That's that's in my mind what Nick Pope's like, the

549
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 3: true reason that he's doing this.

550
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 4: That seems spot on to me.

551
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: That makes sense.

552
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 4: Otherwise, why bother.

553
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: Fielding all these phone calls from these wackadoos that think

554
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: they've seen, you know, a spaceman.

555
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: Which I think I think the four of us would

556
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: be very good.

557
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 4: At that job. Oh absolutely.

558
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: And when I say wackados, I'm saying I'm sure many

559
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: of them are legitimate sightings or legitimate things and concerns,

560
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: what have you.

561
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 4: But I'm talking about that percentage of people that are

562
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 4: just talking about swamp gas, you like, out in the swamp.

563
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: I got a message from my cat, the Greenman at

564
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: the end of the world.

565
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 4: Right seah exactly.

566
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: You know there's gonna be some of that, and you

567
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: gotta give props to this guy because he he took

568
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: it to the to the max. My friends, he felt

569
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: that it was his personal duty to like look into

570
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: everything regarding the history of UFO sightings from you know,

571
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: everything from the you know, like the more of the

572
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: folkloric or you know, pop culture kind of versions of

573
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: stories to these kind of really over the top conspiracies.

574
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: And he had just an encyclopedic knowledge of this stuff.

575
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a sponge.

576
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 4: Does sound like it would have been a fun job.

577
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he as we said, his work with the

578
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: Ministry to Defense at the UFO Desk ended in nineteen

579
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: ninety four. He continued working for a while with the Ministry.

580
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: He moved to the US in twenty twelve and retired

581
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: from that line of work to become a full time

582
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: UFO expert, what people would call a noted ufologist, but

583
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: you see, he doesn't care for the term. He calls

584
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: himself a UFO investigator, not a ufologist. And he's a

585
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: little bit anomalist in his field. Right now, because we've

586
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: talked with people who are fairly prominent, you know, and

587
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: considered experts in the field of UFO studies. We've talked

588
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: to them on this show, and he to some people

589
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: stands out or is controversial because he came to this

590
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: through a professional aspect, whereas again, a lot of people

591
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: were who became UFO panelists or commentators. They were inspired

592
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: by their own UFO sighting, or they were drawn to

593
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: the topic due to a personal interest, and he has

594
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: neither of those. And he Pope himself, notes that some

595
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: members of the community do not trust him. They think

596
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: he may still be employed by the government or some

597
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: organization to function as an agent of disinformation.

598
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 3: He's the Richard C.

599
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: Dody of the UK, the Richard C. Dody of the UK.

600
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: That's it remind us of Richards.

601
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 3: Richard Doty is the guy, the mirage man, the guy

602
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: who was sent out there to purposefully feed disinformation to

603
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 3: people who consider themselves ufologists.

604
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: And that's a real thing, folks. Yep, that actually did happen.

605
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: So this is not entirely unfounded paranoia and paranoia runs

606
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: high in this community, and it's not an unusual accusation.

607
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: You know, it also makes sense because by his own admission,

608
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: his professional task was less to publicize reports and more

609
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: to downplay their importance. And you know, it depends on

610
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: where you fall. If we're being completely fair, you could

611
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: say that he is either suppressing the truth or you

612
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: could say that he is preventing public hysteria. So it

613
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: really depends on what what motivates you would ascribe to him.

614
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: We're we're not ascribing motivations to him, or he's he

615
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: seems on the up and up. He seems like he

616
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: was just at least at that time, doing what he

617
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: was supposed to do as an employee.

618
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, he makes a really really good point

619
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: in some of the writing he's done about these concepts

620
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 3: of taking an online course to train yourself to be

621
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: a ufologist.

622
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 6: Yeah.

623
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he makes a fantastic point that if you

624
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: are that interested in something and you're already perhaps creating

625
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: images in your mind of what the potentials could be

626
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 3: for the things you're seeing or studying, you may already

627
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: have drink, like, had too much of the kool aid yourself,

628
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 3: and you're gonna see things that aren't really there because

629
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 3: you're gonna have confirmation biases, bias problems, and all kinds

630
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 3: of other issues in that regard. Mm hmm.

631
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: And that that does make sense also, that can go

632
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: both ways, right, right, So someone can say, I mean

633
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: the most. Some of the most irritating, irritating mistakes and

634
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: critical thinking come from people who consider themselves skeptics and

635
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 1: think that being a skeptic automatically means extraordinary things cannot exist.

636
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 6: Just shoot it down, right, right, It's it's weird.

637
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 1: It's difficult to be objective and people people constantly think

638
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: that objectivity is in the eye of the beholder. Objectivity

639
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: is the process by which someone comes to agree with

640
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: what I believe. Right, Yeah, that's the mistake we make.

641
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: But Pope is out there, as you said, Matt, he

642
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: is an author. You can find his books online, you

643
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: can see interviews with him, and he is one of

644
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: many ufologists. There's one important point though about about Pope

645
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: and ufologists in general, that our complaint department made while

646
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: he was getting coffee and we're getting ready to record

647
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: talking about the strickmeister. Yes, so you can play the department.

648
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: Jonathan thought Strickland at HowStuffWorks dot com.

649
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: The quiz the Quiztor.

650
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 4: That's the that's sort of an alter ego.

651
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 2: Okay, but yeah, yeah, we still call on Jonathan Strickland

652
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: the quizt.

653
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 4: It's very confusing.

654
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: It's very strange.

655
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 6: You should have him on this show.

656
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, when are you going to come on in Ridiculous History?

657
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 4: Matt?

658
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: When when do you want to go on the show.

659
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 4: That's not up to me, Guys, what do you want

660
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 4: to talk about? Is it?

661
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 1: Nick?

662
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 6: Pope?

663
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: Do we have to check with Nick?

664
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 3: I'm here all right?

665
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 4: Well, alright, well, well we'll tap you.

666
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: We'll tap you for that in the very near future,

667
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: because we're getting people requesting it pretty heavily at this point.

668
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 6: Okay, and we have to we have to.

669
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: Do it before you're on some more adventures.

670
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, as long as you make uh, you let me

671
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 3: appear as the what was it, the the Southern Genie

672
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 3: and the shine Bottle or whatever you.

673
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 4: Will you do it in your Milt Jewlip voice.

674
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I think everything is predicated on that.

675
00:35:58,719 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 4: Okay, that's all right.

676
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: So what exactly what great point did our uh did

677
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: our complaint department bring up? We'll tell you after a

678
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor.

679
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 3: Oh, faded breath, let's do this.

680
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 6: All right, all right?

681
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

682
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 3: Stuff.

683
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. You pay for the

684
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: whole seat, but you only need the edge, I'd say,

685
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: Scott Benjamin line. So what Jonathan pointed out, and he

686
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: is one of the more of our colleagues and cohort,

687
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: he falls more on the skeptical side pretty clearly, and

688
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: he said that he believes there's a difference between professional

689
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: and credible, and we often conflate the two. So a

690
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: professional uthologist doesn't necessarily have to be a credible ufologist.

691
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: They're just someone who is paid to investigate these things. Okay,

692
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: And I thought I thought that was a point that

693
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: we had to mention at least once in this show.

694
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 1: Now we're not We're not calling in to question anybody's

695
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: credibility at this point, but we are saying that just

696
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: because someone is paid to do something does not mean

697
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: they are automatically the.

698
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 6: Best at it. Right.

699
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, With that being said, we would like to empower you.

700
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: If you are listening now and you say, guys, thanks

701
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: for giving me the lay of the land. I wanna

702
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: do this UFO stuff. I want to be a ufologist.

703
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: I don't have time to mess around with the online studies.

704
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: I've read some books, but I think the best way

705
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: to learn about UFOs is on the job experience. Just

706
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: like Nick Pope, Well, we have some leads for you.

707
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 3: The first one is are you a member of move On,

708
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 3: the mutual UFO network already? If you are, you're probably

709
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 3: paying around sixty dollars a year for membership there. And

710
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: what you can do is, once you become a member,

711
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 3: you can talk to your state director, so you can

712
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 3: send an email out to the person that's the director

713
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: of MoveOn near you. You get a copy of this

714
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 3: MoveOn Field Investigator's Manual. You study the manual. It's pretty big.

715
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 3: Let's see. You can order one here. Where is it?

716
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 3: Where I'm try I'm looking for it online? Here we go,

717
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: Here we go. Hard copy Field Investigator's Manual only cost

718
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,439
Speaker 3: you one hundred and five dollars US. So far we're

719
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 3: at about one hundred and seventy dollars, which is more. Well, no,

720
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 3: it's less than that first course.

721
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: We were talking about one hundred and twenty seven pounds.

722
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, let's see. Oh no, the other one was

723
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 3: like what one four hundred dollars, oh, something like that.

724
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 3: So depending on where you land in there, then once

725
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 3: you've done that and you've studied your manual really hard,

726
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 3: you can complete the Volunteer in Field Investigator Orientation program

727
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: on the Moufon University and then ooh another thing. Another

728
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 3: opportunity you can have here is to mentor with a

729
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: licensed MoveOn field investigator, which is kind of cool.

730
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 4: Does that cost extra?

731
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, but all you have to do is

732
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 3: contact your state director and coordinate with somebody. But you

733
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 3: can just do a write along I guess.

734
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 2: I think they have meetups where you can kind of

735
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 2: just go check out the lay of the land and

736
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: have a little meet and greet.

737
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 4: Yes, I'd be into.

738
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 6: That, Yeah, I would. I would love for us.

739
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 4: To go there.

740
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

741
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 4: Is there a chapter here in Atlanta?

742
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,439
Speaker 3: Yes, really, I don't know. I honestly don't know, guys,

743
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: but we can look it up.

744
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm assuming there has to be something, at least regional.

745
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 3: There's a Georgia meetup. Dot com says there's a moofon

746
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 3: Georgia meetup that's happening on August fourth.

747
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: Oh, no way, that's four days before my birthday twenty eighteen.

748
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: My mind exploding.

749
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: Where it is is? Oh, it's in Tucker right off

750
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 3: La Vista, right street.

751
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 4: That's totally in our neighborhood.

752
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 1: Right off seventy.

753
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: Oh, we gotta go right off to eighty yep, that's ay.

754
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: Let me check with Paul. Paul, do you want to

755
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: go with us?

756
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: It's a Saturday, August fourth.

757
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: Paul nodded and.

758
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 4: Smile and a nod. Yeah, all right, the double whammy

759
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 4: from Paul.

760
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: Well, if we've got Deccans in then we have to

761
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: we have to see if we can make it to

762
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: this thing.

763
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 6: It would be a great experience. So there we go.

764
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: You can get firsthand experience even with a mentor investigating

765
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: reports of UFOs under the auspice of the Mutual UFO

766
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: Network or mof on. And again it is not free.

767
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: It is a rather significant investment.

768
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 3: It is.

769
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: But let's say you're not in the US, well, you

770
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: are still in luck. The British UFO Research Organization or

771
00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: you like this, No Bufora offers a similar program BOOFO.

772
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: And we'd like to hear about other countries programs, because

773
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: I imagine there are other European communities or institutions that

774
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 1: have stuff like this. There's probably some stuff like this

775
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: in Canada as well as in parts of South America,

776
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 1: Central America, maybe some parts of Africa as well. We

777
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: want to know, we want to know what's going on

778
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: in your neck of the Global Woods. These licenses, by

779
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 1: the way, are self determined by these groups. Yes, so

780
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: it's not like, for instance, how you would get a

781
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: pilot's license that allows you to fly in different countries.

782
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. It's up to that. It's

783
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: organization by organization.

784
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 3: Last thing to say about that, Move on, meetup. Sorry,

785
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 3: it's free to the public.

786
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: Oh nice, I'm.

787
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 3: Gonna let's blow this thing up. See how many people

788
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: we can get there. Do you do you want to

789
00:41:58,719 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 3: do that or do you just want to let it

790
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,399
Speaker 3: If people are interested, they'll find it. And who knows

791
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 3: when this episode will actually come out?

792
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: That's true, We need to put it out before August four, Yeah,

793
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: we do, all right, okay, yeah, let's blow it up.

794
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 6: Matt. What's what are the deats?

795
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 3: It's at the uh let's see co F. E. Er

796
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 3: Kofer Library. Oh, there's an address. You want to put

797
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 3: this address.

798
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: In put it out in the world.

799
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,479
Speaker 3: Man, It's at fifty two thirty four La Vista Road

800
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 3: in Tucker, Georgia.

801
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: The Tucker read H. Kofer Library. There it is, all right, Yeah,

802
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: let's let's do it. Let's go all right, it's down

803
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: it's down the street.

804
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 6: From us.

805
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: I think I've actually been to this library, you know,

806
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: I think I have to not during a move on.

807
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 3: Don't want to give away how close in proximity I

808
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 3: am to that area.

809
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 6: But you've been there, you're familiarly.

810
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is cool.

811
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: We're actually this spontaneously is happening, folks. We have organically

812
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: decided that we're going to take a field trip.

813
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 6: And if you are in the area, we would love to.

814
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: See you there, and if not, you can experience it

815
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: vicariously through us, because I'm sure we'll report back unless

816
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: we totally flake on this. But we've codified it in

817
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: podcast Stone, so we have to.

818
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: We have to follow through.

819
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 1: Now it's basically written in our own blood disagreement.

820
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 3: This is awesome.

821
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: So so we are going to get We're going to

822
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: learn about move on firsthand. We're going to hear from

823
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: people who are active in these investigations and hear about

824
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: their journeys. There are also, as several of our listeners

825
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: already know, numerous groups and organizations studying various specific aspects

826
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 1: of unidentified aerial phenomenon, and you can join these groups

827
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: in person or online. They provide literature and other resources

828
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: that could be great of great value to you if

829
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: you're a buddying ufologists. It's also no secret that there's

830
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: a lot of misleading info out there in this field,

831
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: and so the burden of differentiating between legitimate research and

832
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: pure entertainment is going to fall squarely on the shoulders

833
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: of the individuals or groups researching this stuff, you know

834
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's the like you can read a

835
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: book about algebra and pretty much trust that you don't

836
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: have to double check a lot of the text.

837
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 6: It's not the case here. You know.

838
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: Nowadays, many academic studies of UFO phenomenon can be classified

839
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: as primarily sociological or anthropological studies, not of the sightings themselves,

840
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: but of the psychology of the witnesses. This is a

841
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: trend We've noticed a lot, and it happens in other

842
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: categories of things that would be called fringe research or

843
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. It's an immensely valuable undertaking. I'm not trying

844
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: to ding it for that, but we can't conflate it

845
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 1: with studies of sightings or reports themselves. It's a shift

846
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 1: in the narrative, you know what I mean. And it's

847
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: kind of so like one example, tell me what you

848
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: think about this. I don't know if this matches one

849
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 1: to one, but I would say writing or studying solely

850
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 1: the psychological or sociological trends of someone or some group

851
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: of people who report seeing UFOs, it's a lot like

852
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: how it's as if you're writing about how people feel

853
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: about a song or it's cultural impact and saying it's

854
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: the same thing as writing about the structure of the song.

855
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 6: It's not interesting. Yeah, No, I like that.

856
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: That's kind of what I was saying at the top

857
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 2: of the show too. How And you also said when

858
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: you talk about the ufology as a field, you presuppose

859
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: the discovery of actual UFOs, which turns it into something

860
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 2: else at that point, doesn't it. It's more like ifology,

861
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 2: you know. So there's a lot of a leap of

862
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 2: faith kind of activity going on with this whole field

863
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: of study. But I like the more sociological version of it.

864
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 2: That interests me more than trying to get the credentials

865
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 2: to be a UFO hunter. I think just with a

866
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 2: little imagination and go getterness and that journalistic spirit we

867
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: talked about with our buddy Pope. I think he kind

868
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: of armed and dangerous to go after the stuff yourself,

869
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 2: if it really intrigues you.

870
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 4: You know, I.

871
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 3: Would say, speaking of Pope some on his website right now,

872
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: if you go check it out. I don't remember the

873
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: r L, but just search Nick Pope and it's right

874
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 3: up there with a wiki. And he discusses how he's

875
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 3: taken after all this time, taking more of a big

876
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 3: picture view of a lot of this stuff, and he

877
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 3: that's exactly what he's looking at now, the sociological meaning

878
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 3: of even even conspiracy theories, Like he says that on

879
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 3: his web page. Why why do we as a culture

880
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 3: tend to believe in conspiracy theories?

881
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: That's one of my favorite parts about our show. Yeah,

882
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: is that very discussion.

883
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what he wants to study now, and

884
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 3: he thinks there should be bigger funded studies on that.

885
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: And those those things are on the way. I would say,

886
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: we had you know, we've had people call us off

887
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: air to do interviews about this kind of thing, you.

888
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 3: Know, and you've been doing some lately.

889
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: We I think we're gonna end up doing more, To

890
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: be honest with you, I don't know, I don't know

891
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: where it's gonna go for us.

892
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 6: I hope that we I don't.

893
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 3: The Zoo Crew one was a lot of fun.

894
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, we're we might be back on there too.

895
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:19,959
Speaker 1: I'm trying to drag you guys on there.

896
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 4: I want to do a morning Zoos show.

897
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: It's it's a thing.

898
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 4: Can I hit the air the air horn button?

899
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: No, they'll do they're in charge of the sound of time.

900
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 3: Oh.

901
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: They're actually pretty clear about it too.

902
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 4: This was a thing.

903
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah oh man, So yeah, so you know, we love

904
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: that stuff. Any way, we can communicate the message and

905
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: we have. We have a great time in those things. Because,

906
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: to steal the old line from Fox News, now, more

907
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: than ever, a lot of things that we're considered implausible

908
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: are becoming increasingly provable and plausible.

909
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 3: Yep, right, because we jumped timelines and now we're in

910
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 3: an alternate universe.

911
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: We're in a we have become our own breakaway society.

912
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 6: Is that what they did?

913
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: Bring it back?

914
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 3: Right?

915
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 4: Okay?

916
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: So, like any serious academic, a true UFO researcher is

917
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: not setting out with a predetermined conclusion. Obviously, this means

918
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: a good investigator is not sitting down and saying, how

919
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: can I prove this craft was made by a previously

920
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 1: unacknowledged extraterrestrial civilization. But just as importantly, it also means

921
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 1: that person is not sitting down and saying, how can

922
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: I disprove that this is unusual? You know what I

923
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: mean what they're doing is they're doing exactly what Nick

924
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 1: Pope did, which is getting all the data, sponging up everything,

925
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: and then following it to a provable conclusion. So it's

926
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 1: no surprise that most UFO investigators have found numerous mundane

927
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: explanations for sightings. And that's a great thing. I mean,

928
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,959
Speaker 1: I know it sounds like a party pooper thing to say,

929
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,479
Speaker 1: but it's it's fantastic because the stuff that we can

930
00:48:54,719 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: prove gives us more information about the inexplicable, real mysterious

931
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 1: stuff that five percent, you know. I mean, even Project

932
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: Blue Book couldn't explain everything. Yeah, and they threw a

933
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: ton of money at it.

934
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 3: I gotta say, guys, there have been humans that have

935
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 3: been fascinated by looking up in the sky and seeing

936
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:17,959
Speaker 3: strange things for.

937
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: A long time.

938
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 3: Now, let's say a long time. We still haven't been

939
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 3: able to prove anything anywhere. Because if we have, this

940
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 3: discussion wouldn't even be happening right now. We'd be talking

941
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: about the mid Chlorians and the from whatever far away galaxy,

942
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 3: the species that we uncovered, or the ship that landed

943
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 3: that one time that wasn't at Roswell, or wasn't the

944
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 3: Rendelstrom Forest incident.

945
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: There was a fantastic piece on This American Life that

946
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 2: I heard the other day where Ira Glass was interviewing

947
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 2: one of his producers whose name now escapes me, but

948
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 2: he has a degree in astrophysics and that was his

949
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 2: first kind of career and then he became a producer

950
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 2: and a journalist for This American Life. And he was

951
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 2: talking about how he couldn't help but be bummed out

952
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 2: existentially at the idea that maybe there is no other life.

953
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: And he was trying to explain to Ira Glass that

954
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: from his scientific background, through his filter, through his understanding

955
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: of you know, astrophysics, how this.

956
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 4: Was a really big deal to him, and at Ira

957
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 4: Glass kind of couldn't understand.

958
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: He thought it was sort of a silly thing to

959
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 2: be quote unquote bummed out about.

960
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 4: So what is that called the Fermi paradox?

961
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: The idea that if it was there, somebody would have

962
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: found something by now, you know. And then there's also

963
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 2: a number that is generated I believe that is the

964
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 2: Drake equation, that is the likelihood of extraterrestrials that is existing.

965
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 2: And they calculated it on the show, and it was

966
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,919
Speaker 2: something like point zero zero zero zero zero zero zero

967
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: nine to one.

968
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 4: So basically zero.

969
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 3: But it was just interesting that life exists or that

970
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 3: we will encounter that life.

971
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: I can't quite remember the nature of the equation, but

972
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: that was where it stands right now. Apparently based on

973
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: the scientific research and material that's out there, that number changes,

974
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 2: but apparently it's very very close to zero right now.

975
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 3: I would take a bummer. I would take issue with

976
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,959
Speaker 3: those people because I think that next to zero number

977
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 3: is probably that Earth would be visited or that Earth

978
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 3: will visit some other civilization.

979
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: Right it's the meeting.

980
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, oh oh, so that life exists, I'm pretty

981
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 3: sure that's almost a certainty. Oh.

982
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: That came up too in the in the piece where

983
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 2: it was like would you be cool if it was

984
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 2: just like maybe an amoeba, Like does it have to

985
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 2: be a sentient creature that you can communicate with?

986
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 4: Like where do you draw the line?

987
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: And this like existential bummer kind of thing, right, Right,

988
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: So that's a big question here.

989
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 4: Too, and it's interesting.

990
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 3: It's all a timescale problem, buddy.

991
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's certain that there is some form

992
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: of life somewhere out in the universe, just because the

993
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: room is too big for there not to be. But

994
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 1: because the room is so big, this room being the universe,

995
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: there's virtually no chance that we will ever ever run

996
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: into love. I love the idea of humanity stumbling upon

997
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: some ancient relic and it's very sad and bittersweet, but

998
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: it's still really important. Like, you know, what if someone

999
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: finally lands on Mars and then they find like the

1000
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: equivalent of alien graffiti, Zorlac was.

1001
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 6: Here or whatever.

1002
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: That's first off, that's the most important thing that ever

1003
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: happened automatically in human history. And secondly, it's one of

1004
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: the loneliest things. Yeah, what happened to Zorlac?

1005
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 4: Dude?

1006
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 3: He made it to Earth with that one ship full

1007
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 3: of DNA and then seated the whole planet with it.

1008
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 3: You've seen Alien Covenant or whatever.

1009
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: It was Prometheus. So if in conclusion for today's episode,

1010
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 1: thanks for coming along with us on this ride. If

1011
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 1: you want to become a ufologist, one of your first

1012
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: and most significant steps is going to be determining an

1013
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: area of focus. Want to concentrate on a specific event

1014
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 1: like that aerial school sighting, or do you want to

1015
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: focus on a typer genre of events. Do you prefer

1016
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: to focus on a related trend, such as the psychology

1017
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: of witnesses, even though this would not in itself be

1018
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: UFO research so much as sociological research. And then after

1019
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: determining that you want to read widely, we found a

1020
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 1: great starting point for anybody who's looking for a good

1021
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: bibliography on serious UFO research.

1022
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 3: It's called UFO Literature for the Serious Uifologist. It's by

1023
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 3: George M. Eberhardt, and it lists all kinds of different

1024
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 3: books and articles on this particular subject and will help

1025
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 3: you get started. You can also there are a couple

1026
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 3: places online that you can find, but this is a

1027
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 3: real we would recommend this place.

1028
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. I think it's I want to say

1029
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: it's from nineteen ninety eight, which will which means it's

1030
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit data, but it has

1031
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: some solid gold classic hits.

1032
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Basically a bibliography that's going to get you on

1033
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:07,959
Speaker 3: your feet.

1034
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1035
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: And you also want to join organizations and groups with

1036
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,760
Speaker 1: similar focus areas like the meet up Matt just found

1037
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: for us on air.

1038
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,399
Speaker 3: Move on only seventy dollars a year.

1039
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, attend conferences, correspond with fellow researchers, become a part

1040
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: of the community. And while the online courses we found

1041
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: do still exist, they're not the only operations around. For example,

1042
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: and this is more alien life than UFO related, But

1043
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: for example, Harvard has a free online course called Super

1044
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: Earth's and Life that combines multiple disciplines to examine the

1045
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: possibility of life on other planets. But let's end on

1046
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: this note. We would like to hear from you. Do

1047
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: you consider yourself a ufologist? What sort of studies have

1048
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: you found to be helpful? What are some tips or

1049
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: tricks you might have for your fellow listeners who are

1050
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 1: considering pursuing this research.

1051
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 3: That's really great. Please please write in let us know,

1052
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 3: send us And that's the end of this classic episode.

1053
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 3: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,

1054
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 3: you can get into contact with us in a number

1055
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 3: of different ways. One of the best is to give

1056
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 3: us a call. Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK.

1057
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 3: If you don't want to do that, you can send

1058
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 3: us a good old fashioned email.

1059
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 5: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1060
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1061
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1062
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.