WEBVTT - From the Vault: Dangerous Foods II 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:07.920 Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your mind. My 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.240 name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.640 It's time for a vault episode. This time we thought 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.320 we jump into our old friends, the dangerous foods. That's right. 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:19.599 I mean, we're getting into the holidays, the you know, 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:25.080 the Thanksgiving, the Christmas, etcetera. Times of feasting, sometimes eating 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:29.240 things that you normally wouldn't, sometimes eating a little bit 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:32.879 too much. It's traditionally a time when we've explored foods that, 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.479 at least in some cases, can be a danger to 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.520 your health. I think these episodes we we were sort 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:41.680 of doing a mix of things. We were highlighting some 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.880 actual dangers associated with certain types of food in certain scenarios, 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:50.080 but also sort of mocking food danger panic right right, Yeah, So, 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.000 as I'm sure we touch on in the actual episode, 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.600 this episode is not meant to make you panic about 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.400 what you eat, but maybe just to think a little 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:02.279 more about some of the peculiar qualities of our food. Now, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.920 we actually did three of these episodes, I think, so 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:06.440 this is going to be the second one we did. 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:08.920 We've already rerun the first one at some point back there. 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:13.759 This was the second one that originally aired December twenty Yeah. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:15.840 Luckily for you, you don't have to listen to an 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.600 order all you know, these are these are potpourri episodes 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:24.200 for sure, a smorgess board of of of potentially horrifying foods. 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:30.600 Let's hop right in. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:40.319 Mind from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, welcome to 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.440 Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.880 and I'm Joe McCormick. And it's the holidays. We know 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:47.680 what we do during the holidays, at least here in 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.640 the United States of A. You put a lot of 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.880 stuff in your body that maybe shouldn't be there. That's right, 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.440 you you eat. You have these various feasts that are 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.480 all about getting through the winter ahead, getting through the cold, 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.880 dark winter and surviving to the spring. It's a it's 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:05.720 a it's it's a it's a riot as old as 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.000 human history and we're still doing it. Yeah, even with 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:13.000 with nasty, weird contraptions like candy canes. Yes, I have 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:18.480 a question, a question, does anybody really like candy canes? Um? 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.640 I'm sure my son would like them, if if we 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:23.160 we steer him away from it. Like, he got a 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.639 candy cane at some event recently and brought it home 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:28.800 and we kind of convinced him, actually, this is a 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:31.320 candy that is best served hanging on the tree. This 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.880 is more of a this is more of a decoration. Really, 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:35.800 that's a candy. You don't even have to lie to 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:37.760 him to discourage him about you just be like, this 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.080 will cut your tongue and it's gonna you're gonna be 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.240 sad you ate it. Your mouth will feel weird and 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:44.840 you'll have injuries. Yeah, it doesn't have the hyper marketing 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:46.960 of many modern candies because we we we limit the 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:51.320 amount of candy that my son uh eats, and that 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.959 means we like at Halloween, he was he had access 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:55.440 to all of these candies, but then he traded them 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.160 into the switch which and got a toy in exchange. 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:00.360 But there were some candies were just so well marketed 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.079 he was convinced they were his favorite. Like Ike and 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.000 Mike for some reason. Hike and Mike, Yeah it marketed. 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.160 Do they have marketing? Well, I mean they have the No, wait, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.400 it's Mike and Ike, Mike and I Mike first. Yeah, 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.040 I don't. I don't know that those guys that well, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.679 I forget which one comes first, but the package is 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.600 like bright green, and they're these colors, and he's instantly 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:19.480 connecting with it and he's saying, oh, this one, this 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.079 one's good. Look, those are fruits on there. It's bright, 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:24.720 it's it's potent. I want to eat that. That's my 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.880 favorite candy. He's never actually had it. Huh well, okay, 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.000 so today's episode is going to be a sequel to 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.639 our last episode about Dangerous Foods that aired last year, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.920 and uh so today is Dangerous Foods to the Revenge, No, 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:42.320 the second course, the return of the food. There was 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:45.800 never a good thing. Yes, a dish best served cold, 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.160 And there is gonna be a lot of wonderful, dangerous, 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.360 poisonous weirdness out there to talk about. But we do 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.640 want to say at the beginning that at least I 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.760 feel deeply Robert, I hope you feel the same way 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.720 that being alarmist is very much against the stuff to 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.440 blow your mind ethos. So we are not going to 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:06.280 tell you there is a silent killer lurking in your pantry. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.720 That that save that for those websites that demonize MSG 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.640 and stuff. We've already debunked. This episode is going to 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:17.919 be about dangerous and poisonous misadventures involving rare foods everyday foods. 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.000 But no matter what case it is, it's not designed 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.880 to scare you, but it should be a reminder that 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.320 we live in a world of very complex and sometimes 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.720 fragile biochemical interactions, and for those of us living in 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:36.440 industrialized countries, I think sometimes our consumer mindset leads us 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.080 to believe that our food should meet the industry quality 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.320 controls standards you'd get in the dead products you buy 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.800 at Walmart or Ikea. Maybe so if every version of 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.919 the same product number table at Ikea really is the 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.719 same no matter which I Kea you go to anywhere 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.279 in the world, shouldn't every baked potato be the same 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.720 everywhere you go in the world. But it's not, is it. 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.000 I mean foods, the foods we eat, our organisms or 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:11.840 substances derived from organisms, plants, animals, fungi, and as as 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.080 much as we might like our food products to be 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.440 contained and tamed and dependable as the output of a 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:22.200 furniture factory, as we all know, sometimes life uh finds 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.480 a way. Yeah, I mean, these are organisms. Now in 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:29.000 some cases especially with various fruits and whatnot. Uh. It 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.359 is the the organisms game for you to eat it. 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.920 It wants you to eat it. But in many other 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.719 cases the organism does not want to be eaten and 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:42.520 has certain biological systems in place to prevent it, to 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.680 discourage it, to make it difficult for you to carry this. Uh, 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.960 this this act of gluttony out and uh. And also 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.039 any type of food that is produced, if it's you know, 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.720 a grown part of a thing's body, or it comes 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.000 out of the soil or a creature makes it, it 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.479 is the It is the inn of a production line, 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.719 a production line that is not standardized exactly exactly. No, 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.279 it depends on the region, It depends on the environment, 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:12.200 the climate, the conditions, what materials are available for the 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:17.159 organism to work with. So yeah, biochemistry is a deep 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:21.960 web of complex interactions, and the stuff we're getting is 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.360 not fresh. It's the process. It's the end of a 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.400 very long process, and it's just very common around the 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.400 world in various ways for something weird to happen somewhere 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.960 along that process. Alright, So what's what's first? First up? 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.080 What's the first course here? Joe? Okay, Well, I want 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.679 to tell you a story. Okay. So, in his work 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:47.560 known as the Antibossis the ancient Greek historians, Xenophon tells 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.040 the story from his time as a general in the 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.920 Greek war against the Persians, and one of his accounts 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.560 tells of a story that took place in four oh 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.360 one BC while while Xenophon in his true coops are 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.919 returning home from battle with a group. Xenophons got about 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.520 ten thousand Greek fighters with him, and they're traveling through 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.400 col Chiefe, which is a region along the coast of 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.880 the Black Sea and what is now the country of Georgia, 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.040 and Xenophon's troops come across a place that is swarming 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.720 with thousands of bees. They're just bees everywhere. And you 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:22.840 might think, oh, that sounds horrible, but for a bunch 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.920 of Greek soldiers, this is actually good news because they 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.920 knew they're in for a treat, fresh honey from the hive. 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.320 That's right. They weren't packing any candy canes or I 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.920 can Mike uh and and Mike uh. It might have 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:37.440 maybe it was reversed back then. I don't know how 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.560 they got the Greeks. The ancient Greeks world oh yeah, 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.120 the Greek alphabet, yeah, I come before M. I'm not 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.080 sure at any rate, they probably weren't getting their their 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.480 sweet tooth satisfied quite like they would they would wish 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.400 it to be. You know, I comes before him and 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:57.320 our alphabet apologize to the manufacturers of this candy. A 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.520 little bit of brain problems here with me anyway. So 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.880 so the Greek fighters, they've got honey delicious, right, But 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.520 after eating the honey, the soldiers started to give off 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:12.200 signs of a strange reaction, and so Xenophon rights that 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.200 the soldiers began to go out of their heads, and 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:19.360 they suffered from diarrhea and vomiting. Then the soldiers collapsed 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.040 to the ground and wallowed about as if dead drunk, 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.000 and in some cases they seemed to have lost their 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.400 minds uh. In others the men were like men on 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:33.840 their deathbeds Xenophon rights quote. So they lay there in 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.880 great numbers, as though the army had suffered to defeat, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.320 and great despondency prevailed. On the next day, however, no 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.240 one had died, and it approximately the same hour as 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.120 they had eaten the honey. They began to come to 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:48.800 their senses, and on the third or fourth day, they 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.600 got up as if from a drugging bad honey. So 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.440 what happened? Yeah, I had the local bees risen up 0:08:55.480 --> 0:09:00.360 against them. Uh No, Xenophon's fighters had stumbled into a 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.400 trove of the substance well known to inhabitants of the 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:08.200 Black seacoast, mad honey. This is what the ancients called it. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.480 Plenty called it. Uh Oh, I forget the term now, 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.640 I think it's millymnomenon the honey, that is, a mad 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.520 maker like that. And there are other ancient accounts of 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:23.920 mad honey poisoning. So in sixty b C. The Roman 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.560 military leader Pompey the Great is taking a Roman army 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.840 near the southern shore the Black Sea again while chasing 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:35.800 the Persian army of King Mithridates of Pontus and the Persians. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.000 They've got a group of allies apparently who know about 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.840 the mad honey, and these allies set a trap for 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.760 Pompey's army. They placed honey combs full of mad honey 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.360 from the local bees into containers and left them along 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.440 Pompey's path, knowing that some of the soldiers would not 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.360 be able to resist a sweet indulgence and they were 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.280 right the home. The Romans were basically Winnie the Pooh, 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.319 they were poop, I've got to get the honey. Uh. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.800 So many Roman troops ate the honey. They became incredibly 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.800 sick and disoriented, went out of their heads. While the 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:12.360 Romans were wallering, wallowing around, you know, in a bit 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:16.000 of a sugary stupor. The Persian army came back, killed him, 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:20.120 led to a battle with very asymmetrical outcome. I've read 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.920 that more than a thousand Roman soldiers were killed and 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.880 very few Persians died, a very asymmetrical outcome. It's a 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:33.800 wonderful exactly. Yeah, a little bit of a call back there. Uh, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.920 that's I think the term would be a massacre. Actually 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:43.320 that's the non massacre, sticky massacre. But there's an excellent 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.920 article on mad honey. Actually I came across by none 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:50.400 other than Adrian Mayor. If you remember from our episode 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.080 on geo mythology. Adrian Mayor is the main scholar we 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.280 talked about in that that episode, and she's known for 0:10:56.280 --> 0:11:00.959 the theory that various mythological beasts were inspired by ancient 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.280 people's coming across the dinosaur fossils. So for example, people 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.240 in Central Asia may have found triceratops remains in the 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.400 Gobi Desert and this led to the creation of Griffin myths. 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.200 And so we talked about her in that episode. But 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.559 she has this article in a nine edition of Archaeology 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.520 magazine called Mad Honey. It's a great read, you can 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.200 look it up online. But she talks about also how 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.160 in a d N a ruler of the Kievan russ 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.400 called Olga of Kiev, who in general I looked her up. 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.480 She seems like she she's pretty be a she's like bad, 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.960 she's cool. Um. She used fer minted honey from the 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.520 Black Sea region to poison a group of about five 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.120 thousand of her enemies and then had them massacred, So 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.359 that there's a there's a long history of military missteps 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:55.880 or or outright uh poisonings and massacres with Mad Honey. Yeah, 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:57.760 and with all these ancient accounts, I mean, you have 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.560 to wonder to what extent we're we're getting the true story. 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.760 But these are the accounts as presented by these ancient 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.320 historians and authors. Because I can also see where this 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:10.000 would be a narrative to invoke if you're on the 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.520 losing side, you know to say, well, yes, our troops 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.360 were were massacred and our troops were ambushed, but they 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.520 were also poisoned by his local honey or or this 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:25.800 not because I was a commander, right, But but we 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.920 do know now that this is totally plausible because mad 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.280 honey is absolutely a real thing, and mad honey the 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.520 problem is not the bees themselves but the flowers they pollinate. 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.960 So in the Black Sea coastal region, bees often consume 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:45.640 huge quantities of nectar from the flowers of the rhododendron plant, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:51.920 and rhododendrons produce a potentially deadly neurotoxin called gray anotoxin. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.400 So I'm going to be referring to a paper published 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:01.680 in Cardiovascular Toxicology by Sue us A. Jansen at All 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:06.240 called Granotoxin Poisoning, mad Honey Disease and Beyond from two 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.920 thousand twelve. And what they report is that grayanotoxin is 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:15.959 also known as andromedo toxin, acetyal, andromed al and rhodotoxin, 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:18.600 and it can be derived from the body parts of 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:24.880 plants in the family er Cassier, which includes rhododendron, pierists, agarista, 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:29.439 and Calmia and in reality, granno toxin is a family 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.840 of related toxins. So there are a bunch of different 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.960 grano toxins. We should probably speak about it in the plural. 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.280 There are more than twenty five is a forms that 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:41.640 have been derived from rhododendron. And here's the basic way 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.160 it works in your body. So grannotoxins are poisonous because 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.280 of their ability to bind to the group to receptor 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:53.720 site in voltage gated sodium channels or v g s 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.600 c s. And so I'll break that down. Basically, v 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.679 gs c s are protein structures there a little structures 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.559 within the body that span across membranes and they facilitate 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.880 the transfer of sodium ions which has charged particles of sodium. 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.920 And so the transfer of these charged particles is important 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.920 for communication between the body's different tissues, allowing the passage 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.560 of action potential in cells like neurons. If you introduce 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.840 a toxin that binds too receptor sites in the sodium channels, 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.280 you can essentially prevent effective communication between body tissues and 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:33.080 disrupt the nervous system. Specifically, the researchers think that gray 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:37.960 anotoxins work by preventing the inactivation of the sodium channel. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.280 To use a metaphor, it would be like leaving the 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:44.120 light switch stuck in the on position. You can imagine 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.640 how this would have negative systemic effects on the nerve 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.960 cells and the body at large, but specifically, the authors 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:54.600 think it probably leads to continuous uninterrupted stimulation of the 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.920 vagueal nervous system, the vegas nerve, which of course is 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.200 very important in the body. It interfaces between the brain, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.600 uh the autonomic nervous system, and many muscles in the 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:06.760 body from the heart and the lungs to the voice 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.560 production center. So this is bad stuff. You don't you 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.800 don't want it in your body, Its right, But grannotoxin 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.360 contamination of honey occurs most often just in the Black 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:22.000 Sea region of Turkey, especially from the plant's rhododendron Rhododendron 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:28.000 ponticum and Rhododendron lutam. But rhododendron isn't the only plant 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:32.000 to produce nectar containing grayannotoxin, which can filter down into 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.120 the honey that the bees produced. Of course, honey containing 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.360 grayannotoxin has also been found in North America, for example 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.000 in North Carolina, where in the nineteen fifties a sample 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.800 was found to contain about a hundred parts per million 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.400 of granotoxin and what did that come from? While the 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.360 authors speculated it was probably derived from bees that eight 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:56.320 the nectar of the mountain laurel or Calmia latifolia. So 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:59.080 I know, if you're a honey fan, you're probably worrying like, oh, no, 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.520 am I gonna get mad honey? Probably not, probably, depending 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.280 on where you are and how you get your honey. 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.320 According to a Texas A and M University article citing 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:14.680 anthropologist Vaughan Bryant, you can find honey in the United States, 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.680 but not not so often so, Bryant says, quote, Normally, 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.800 there are not enough rhododendrons in one area for the 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.840 bees to make concentrated mad honey. However, sometimes there is 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.720 a late cold snap in the Eastern US that kills 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:32.280 a lot of flowers but doesn't seem to stun the rhododendrons. 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.200 Thus they're the only thing blooming and the bees will 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.240 focus all their attention on those flowers and produce concentrated 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.560 mad honey during that period. These flowers are mostly in 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:47.320 the Appalachian Mountains of the Eastern US. That also goes 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.160 with something I've read about this type of poisoning being 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.000 more common in the early spring. When I guess also 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.960 some of these granotoxin producing flowers are that they're more 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:03.440 cold resistant, might might bloom earlier where other flowers aren't available. Interesting, 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.040 so it would be the it would be these rare 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.639 incidences where the poisonous flowers, the toxic flowers are the 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.399 the only source for the bees. Yeah, because the bees 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.040 don't love them the most. The bees would rather have 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.160 another flower. But if all the other flowers are out 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.480 of the game for some reason, they will go to 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.480 the granotoxin plants and make their honey from that sweet, 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:28.840 sweet nectar that people also some people have a taste for. Now, 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:30.920 I'm guessing too that this is going to be more 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.000 of a situation with your certainly your wild honeys these 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:39.000 affected areas and may and maybe maybe with with some 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.679 like extreme indie honey. I guess you're probably not going 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.200 to get this from a mass produced honey because that 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.160 that involves. I mean, number one, there's just quality control, 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.040 so they tend to know what types of flowers the 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.520 nectar is coming from. But then there is also massive 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.160 mixing involved. So when you get mass produced honey. They're 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.520 blending together huge batches of honey from different hives, and 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.600 even if there were some containing toxin, it would probably 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.760 be mixed and thus diluted way down to a level 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.520 that's not a threat. Okay, So outside of the Black 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.560 Sea region, you would have to you would have to 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.960 really have a string of bad luck, I think, to 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.040 run across this stuff, right probably. I mean you could 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.919 come across if somebody's like a wild honey collector, you know, 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.320 or like you said, extreme indie honey uh and there 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.080 are they don't necessarily know what they're doing, or they 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.200 have some bad luck with with what flowers there bees 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.680 have access to, and they don't realize it in time 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.240 before they give it to somebody to eat. You could 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.439 encounter mad honey in other parts of the world, but 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:42.800 it's gonna definitely going to be most common in the 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:46.240 Black Sea region, especially in Turkey. So if you eat 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.720 some mad honey today, what's going to happen to you? Well, 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.320 clinical characteristics are gonna list a few. This is also 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.480 this is back to Jansen at all. So there's hypotension 0:18:55.520 --> 0:19:02.480 meaning low blood pressure, problems with cardiac rhythm, nausea, vomiting, sweating, dizziness, 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:07.720 and quote impaired consciousness. It's kind of a euphemism, right. Uh. 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:11.800 There's also less often but still noted, fainting, blurred vision, 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:18.959 diplopia or double visions, salivation, convulsions, atrial fibrillation, cardiac arrest, 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.920 and myocardial infarction meaning a heart attack. All that really 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.080 from a hit of bad honey. Yes, if you get 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.960 enough of a concentrated dose you and eat, you eat 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.199 enough of it, you can have symptoms like these. I 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.840 would have liked to have have have seen a clinical 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.560 list of symptoms that also included the various injuries that 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:42.440 the Persian military have afflicted on you in ancient times. 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:49.320 Side effects include massacre, yeah, dismemberment. But here's one more thing. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.119 Not all known cases of mad honey poisoning or accidental 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:58.240 Sometimes people take grand a toxin contaminated honey intentionally as 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.840 an aphrodisiac or as an alternative medicine. And I think 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.720 the jury is still out as to whether at low 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:09.800 doses gryannotoxin may actually have some kind of positive effects. 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.920 I think it's not clear yet whether that actually is effective. 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.399 But the authors of the study I mentioned speculate that 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:20.199 regularly taking contaminated honey for these reasons may lead to 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:25.520 a condition called chronic mad honey intoxication syndrome. That sounds 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:27.600 like a syndrome you don't want to have to put 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:29.320 on your little form you fill out when you get 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:33.440 a new doctor. That's right. Alright, On that note, let's 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.520 take a quick breaking. When we come back, we will 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:44.560 discuss the dead man's fingers. All right, we're back, Robert. 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.359 You have piqued my interest dead man's fingers? Are you 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:51.320 literally talking about eating the fingers of a corpse? Um? No, 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.240 but in a way it's kind of figurative. So are you? 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.760 Are you? Are you? Yeah? Digitally if you will. But 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:00.159 here's the thing. Are you a crap band? Do you 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.600 enjoy eating crab? I don't eat it that often, but 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:04.760 I do like it. Do you What is the most 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.040 crab like form of your crab consumption? So? Do you? 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:11.800 Do you? Do you enjoy soft shell crab on the sandwich, 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.320 the legs and the claws sticking out on the sides. 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.680 It's another thing. I don't eat that often, but when 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:18.720 I've had it, I've liked it. Okay, It's it's my 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.840 absolute favorite. I think it's the it is the best 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.440 way to eat an animal where there's just there's there's 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.800 less deniability about what you're doing. You're just you're biting 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.679 into this crab. The whole shape is their shape is 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.479 there might as well eat a cockroach. Yeah, yeah, And 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:36.960 it's it's the meat, but also all these other substances 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:38.879 that are all fried up, all the other bits of 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.480 its anatomy. It's I feel like it's a very honest 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.800 mode of consumption, even though it is cooked. So it's 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.320 not like you're just eating the raw living crab. No. 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.840 I can get with that. Okay, well, this is uh, 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:54.840 we're not just talking about crabs here though, of course, 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:57.600 we're talking about about the dead man's fingers, which if 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:02.080 you've ever actively in gay in the cook cooking of crabs, 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.080 and catching of crabs, then you you probably have some 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:07.679 degree of familiarity of what I'm talking about here. So 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.560 in our last Dangerous Foods episode, we discussed the manner 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.159 by which food goo puffer fish become edible via the 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.959 skilled culinarya removal of certain tetrodo toxin laden inerts. Right, 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:22.880 if it's got certain organs that have especially high concentrations 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.120 of this toxin. Right, so you need a skilled chef 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.080 to cut that little sliver out, cook it up and 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:30.000 it's good to go, right, Yeah, But a good sushi 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.440 chef will know what they were, what they're doing, right, 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:34.399 they'll be able to get it out of there, and 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:36.360 you shouldn't have to worry about it if if you're 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:41.920 in good hands. Exactly. So this is faintly similar to that. 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.720 But but this is definitely a category where we're going 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:48.240 to be dispelling a lot of ideas about dangerous foods 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:51.520 rather than uh, you know, giving you the science but 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.200 behind why it's actually dangerous. Okay, Well, you've got to 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:57.320 tell me where the name comes from, Okay, Uh, as 0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.159 far as I can tell that, the name itself is 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.359 just kind of lost to to history. You know, we 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.840 don't know like where, you know, what region this came from. 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:09.399 But you do find dead man's fingers in edible crabs, 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:13.200