1 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your mind. My 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: It's time for a vault episode. This time we thought 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: we jump into our old friends, the dangerous foods. That's right. 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: I mean, we're getting into the holidays, the you know, 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: the Thanksgiving, the Christmas, etcetera. Times of feasting, sometimes eating 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: things that you normally wouldn't, sometimes eating a little bit 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: too much. It's traditionally a time when we've explored foods that, 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: at least in some cases, can be a danger to 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: your health. I think these episodes we we were sort 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: of doing a mix of things. We were highlighting some 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: actual dangers associated with certain types of food in certain scenarios, 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: but also sort of mocking food danger panic right right, Yeah, So, 14 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: as I'm sure we touch on in the actual episode, 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: this episode is not meant to make you panic about 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: what you eat, but maybe just to think a little 17 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 1: more about some of the peculiar qualities of our food. Now, 18 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: we actually did three of these episodes, I think, so 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: this is going to be the second one we did. 20 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: We've already rerun the first one at some point back there. 21 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: This was the second one that originally aired December twenty Yeah. 22 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: Luckily for you, you don't have to listen to an 23 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: order all you know, these are these are potpourri episodes 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: for sure, a smorgess board of of of potentially horrifying foods. 25 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: Let's hop right in. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your 26 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: Mind from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, welcome to 27 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick. And it's the holidays. We know 29 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: what we do during the holidays, at least here in 30 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: the United States of A. You put a lot of 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: stuff in your body that maybe shouldn't be there. That's right, 32 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: you you eat. You have these various feasts that are 33 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: all about getting through the winter ahead, getting through the cold, 34 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: dark winter and surviving to the spring. It's a it's 35 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: a it's it's a it's a riot as old as 36 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: human history and we're still doing it. Yeah, even with 37 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: with nasty, weird contraptions like candy canes. Yes, I have 38 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: a question, a question, does anybody really like candy canes? Um? 39 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure my son would like them, if if we 40 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: we steer him away from it. Like, he got a 41 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: candy cane at some event recently and brought it home 42 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: and we kind of convinced him, actually, this is a 43 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: candy that is best served hanging on the tree. This 44 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: is more of a this is more of a decoration. Really, 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: that's a candy. You don't even have to lie to 46 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: him to discourage him about you just be like, this 47 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: will cut your tongue and it's gonna you're gonna be 48 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: sad you ate it. Your mouth will feel weird and 49 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: you'll have injuries. Yeah, it doesn't have the hyper marketing 50 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: of many modern candies because we we we limit the 51 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: amount of candy that my son uh eats, and that 52 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: means we like at Halloween, he was he had access 53 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: to all of these candies, but then he traded them 54 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: into the switch which and got a toy in exchange. 55 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: But there were some candies were just so well marketed 56 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: he was convinced they were his favorite. Like Ike and 57 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: Mike for some reason. Hike and Mike, Yeah it marketed. 58 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: Do they have marketing? Well, I mean they have the No, wait, 59 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: it's Mike and Ike, Mike and I Mike first. Yeah, 60 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know that those guys that well, 61 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: I forget which one comes first, but the package is 62 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: like bright green, and they're these colors, and he's instantly 63 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: connecting with it and he's saying, oh, this one, this 64 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: one's good. Look, those are fruits on there. It's bright, 65 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: it's it's potent. I want to eat that. That's my 66 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: favorite candy. He's never actually had it. Huh well, okay, 67 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: so today's episode is going to be a sequel to 68 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: our last episode about Dangerous Foods that aired last year, 69 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: and uh so today is Dangerous Foods to the Revenge, No, 70 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: the second course, the return of the food. There was 71 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: never a good thing. Yes, a dish best served cold, 72 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: And there is gonna be a lot of wonderful, dangerous, 73 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: poisonous weirdness out there to talk about. But we do 74 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: want to say at the beginning that at least I 75 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: feel deeply Robert, I hope you feel the same way 76 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: that being alarmist is very much against the stuff to 77 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: blow your mind ethos. So we are not going to 78 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: tell you there is a silent killer lurking in your pantry. 79 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: That that save that for those websites that demonize MSG 80 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: and stuff. We've already debunked. This episode is going to 81 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: be about dangerous and poisonous misadventures involving rare foods everyday foods. 82 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: But no matter what case it is, it's not designed 83 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: to scare you, but it should be a reminder that 84 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: we live in a world of very complex and sometimes 85 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: fragile biochemical interactions, and for those of us living in 86 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: industrialized countries, I think sometimes our consumer mindset leads us 87 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: to believe that our food should meet the industry quality 88 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: controls standards you'd get in the dead products you buy 89 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: at Walmart or Ikea. Maybe so if every version of 90 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: the same product number table at Ikea really is the 91 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: same no matter which I Kea you go to anywhere 92 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: in the world, shouldn't every baked potato be the same 93 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: everywhere you go in the world. But it's not, is it. 94 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: I mean foods, the foods we eat, our organisms or 95 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: substances derived from organisms, plants, animals, fungi, and as as 96 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: much as we might like our food products to be 97 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: contained and tamed and dependable as the output of a 98 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: furniture factory, as we all know, sometimes life uh finds 99 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: a way. Yeah, I mean, these are organisms. Now in 100 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: some cases especially with various fruits and whatnot. Uh. It 101 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: is the the organisms game for you to eat it. 102 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: It wants you to eat it. But in many other 103 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: cases the organism does not want to be eaten and 104 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: has certain biological systems in place to prevent it, to 105 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: discourage it, to make it difficult for you to carry this. Uh, 106 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: this this act of gluttony out and uh. And also 107 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: any type of food that is produced, if it's you know, 108 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: a grown part of a thing's body, or it comes 109 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: out of the soil or a creature makes it, it 110 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: is the It is the inn of a production line, 111 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: a production line that is not standardized exactly exactly. No, 112 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: it depends on the region, It depends on the environment, 113 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: the climate, the conditions, what materials are available for the 114 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: organism to work with. So yeah, biochemistry is a deep 115 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: web of complex interactions, and the stuff we're getting is 116 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: not fresh. It's the process. It's the end of a 117 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: very long process, and it's just very common around the 118 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: world in various ways for something weird to happen somewhere 119 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: along that process. Alright, So what's what's first? First up? 120 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: What's the first course here? Joe? Okay, Well, I want 121 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,679 Speaker 1: to tell you a story. Okay. So, in his work 122 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: known as the Antibossis the ancient Greek historians, Xenophon tells 123 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: the story from his time as a general in the 124 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: Greek war against the Persians, and one of his accounts 125 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: tells of a story that took place in four oh 126 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: one BC while while Xenophon in his true coops are 127 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: returning home from battle with a group. Xenophons got about 128 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: ten thousand Greek fighters with him, and they're traveling through 129 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: col Chiefe, which is a region along the coast of 130 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: the Black Sea and what is now the country of Georgia, 131 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: and Xenophon's troops come across a place that is swarming 132 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: with thousands of bees. They're just bees everywhere. And you 133 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: might think, oh, that sounds horrible, but for a bunch 134 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: of Greek soldiers, this is actually good news because they 135 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: knew they're in for a treat, fresh honey from the hive. 136 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: That's right. They weren't packing any candy canes or I 137 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: can Mike uh and and Mike uh. It might have 138 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: maybe it was reversed back then. I don't know how 139 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: they got the Greeks. The ancient Greeks world oh yeah, 140 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: the Greek alphabet, yeah, I come before M. I'm not 141 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: sure at any rate, they probably weren't getting their their 142 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: sweet tooth satisfied quite like they would they would wish 143 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: it to be. You know, I comes before him and 144 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: our alphabet apologize to the manufacturers of this candy. A 145 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: little bit of brain problems here with me anyway. So 146 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: so the Greek fighters, they've got honey delicious, right, But 147 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: after eating the honey, the soldiers started to give off 148 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: signs of a strange reaction, and so Xenophon rights that 149 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: the soldiers began to go out of their heads, and 150 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: they suffered from diarrhea and vomiting. Then the soldiers collapsed 151 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: to the ground and wallowed about as if dead drunk, 152 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: and in some cases they seemed to have lost their 153 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: minds uh. In others the men were like men on 154 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: their deathbeds Xenophon rights quote. So they lay there in 155 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: great numbers, as though the army had suffered to defeat, 156 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: and great despondency prevailed. On the next day, however, no 157 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: one had died, and it approximately the same hour as 158 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: they had eaten the honey. They began to come to 159 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: their senses, and on the third or fourth day, they 160 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: got up as if from a drugging bad honey. So 161 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: what happened? Yeah, I had the local bees risen up 162 00:08:55,480 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: against them. Uh No, Xenophon's fighters had stumbled into a 163 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: trove of the substance well known to inhabitants of the 164 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: Black seacoast, mad honey. This is what the ancients called it. 165 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: Plenty called it. Uh Oh, I forget the term now, 166 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: I think it's millymnomenon the honey, that is, a mad 167 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: maker like that. And there are other ancient accounts of 168 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: mad honey poisoning. So in sixty b C. The Roman 169 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: military leader Pompey the Great is taking a Roman army 170 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: near the southern shore the Black Sea again while chasing 171 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: the Persian army of King Mithridates of Pontus and the Persians. 172 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: They've got a group of allies apparently who know about 173 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: the mad honey, and these allies set a trap for 174 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: Pompey's army. They placed honey combs full of mad honey 175 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: from the local bees into containers and left them along 176 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: Pompey's path, knowing that some of the soldiers would not 177 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: be able to resist a sweet indulgence and they were 178 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: right the home. The Romans were basically Winnie the Pooh, 179 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: they were poop, I've got to get the honey. Uh. 180 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: So many Roman troops ate the honey. They became incredibly 181 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: sick and disoriented, went out of their heads. While the 182 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: Romans were wallering, wallowing around, you know, in a bit 183 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: of a sugary stupor. The Persian army came back, killed him, 184 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: led to a battle with very asymmetrical outcome. I've read 185 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: that more than a thousand Roman soldiers were killed and 186 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: very few Persians died, a very asymmetrical outcome. It's a 187 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: wonderful exactly. Yeah, a little bit of a call back there. Uh, 188 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: that's I think the term would be a massacre. Actually 189 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: that's the non massacre, sticky massacre. But there's an excellent 190 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: article on mad honey. Actually I came across by none 191 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: other than Adrian Mayor. If you remember from our episode 192 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: on geo mythology. Adrian Mayor is the main scholar we 193 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: talked about in that that episode, and she's known for 194 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: the theory that various mythological beasts were inspired by ancient 195 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: people's coming across the dinosaur fossils. So for example, people 196 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: in Central Asia may have found triceratops remains in the 197 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: Gobi Desert and this led to the creation of Griffin myths. 198 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: And so we talked about her in that episode. But 199 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: she has this article in a nine edition of Archaeology 200 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: magazine called Mad Honey. It's a great read, you can 201 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: look it up online. But she talks about also how 202 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: in a d N a ruler of the Kievan russ 203 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: called Olga of Kiev, who in general I looked her up. 204 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: She seems like she she's pretty be a she's like bad, 205 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: she's cool. Um. She used fer minted honey from the 206 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: Black Sea region to poison a group of about five 207 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: thousand of her enemies and then had them massacred, So 208 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,359 Speaker 1: that there's a there's a long history of military missteps 209 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: or or outright uh poisonings and massacres with Mad Honey. Yeah, 210 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: and with all these ancient accounts, I mean, you have 211 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: to wonder to what extent we're we're getting the true story. 212 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: But these are the accounts as presented by these ancient 213 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: historians and authors. Because I can also see where this 214 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: would be a narrative to invoke if you're on the 215 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: losing side, you know to say, well, yes, our troops 216 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: were were massacred and our troops were ambushed, but they 217 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: were also poisoned by his local honey or or this 218 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: not because I was a commander, right, But but we 219 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: do know now that this is totally plausible because mad 220 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: honey is absolutely a real thing, and mad honey the 221 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: problem is not the bees themselves but the flowers they pollinate. 222 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: So in the Black Sea coastal region, bees often consume 223 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: huge quantities of nectar from the flowers of the rhododendron plant, 224 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: and rhododendrons produce a potentially deadly neurotoxin called gray anotoxin. 225 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: So I'm going to be referring to a paper published 226 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: in Cardiovascular Toxicology by Sue us A. Jansen at All 227 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: called Granotoxin Poisoning, mad Honey Disease and Beyond from two 228 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: thousand twelve. And what they report is that grayanotoxin is 229 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: also known as andromedo toxin, acetyal, andromed al and rhodotoxin, 230 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: and it can be derived from the body parts of 231 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: plants in the family er Cassier, which includes rhododendron, pierists, agarista, 232 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: and Calmia and in reality, granno toxin is a family 233 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: of related toxins. So there are a bunch of different 234 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: grano toxins. We should probably speak about it in the plural. 235 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: There are more than twenty five is a forms that 236 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: have been derived from rhododendron. And here's the basic way 237 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: it works in your body. So grannotoxins are poisonous because 238 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: of their ability to bind to the group to receptor 239 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: site in voltage gated sodium channels or v g s 240 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: c s. And so I'll break that down. Basically, v 241 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: gs c s are protein structures there a little structures 242 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: within the body that span across membranes and they facilitate 243 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: the transfer of sodium ions which has charged particles of sodium. 244 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: And so the transfer of these charged particles is important 245 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: for communication between the body's different tissues, allowing the passage 246 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: of action potential in cells like neurons. If you introduce 247 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: a toxin that binds too receptor sites in the sodium channels, 248 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: you can essentially prevent effective communication between body tissues and 249 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: disrupt the nervous system. Specifically, the researchers think that gray 250 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: anotoxins work by preventing the inactivation of the sodium channel. 251 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: To use a metaphor, it would be like leaving the 252 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: light switch stuck in the on position. You can imagine 253 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: how this would have negative systemic effects on the nerve 254 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: cells and the body at large, but specifically, the authors 255 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: think it probably leads to continuous uninterrupted stimulation of the 256 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: vagueal nervous system, the vegas nerve, which of course is 257 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: very important in the body. It interfaces between the brain, 258 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: uh the autonomic nervous system, and many muscles in the 259 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: body from the heart and the lungs to the voice 260 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: production center. So this is bad stuff. You don't you 261 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: don't want it in your body, Its right, But grannotoxin 262 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: contamination of honey occurs most often just in the Black 263 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: Sea region of Turkey, especially from the plant's rhododendron Rhododendron 264 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: ponticum and Rhododendron lutam. But rhododendron isn't the only plant 265 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: to produce nectar containing grayannotoxin, which can filter down into 266 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: the honey that the bees produced. Of course, honey containing 267 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: grayannotoxin has also been found in North America, for example 268 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: in North Carolina, where in the nineteen fifties a sample 269 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: was found to contain about a hundred parts per million 270 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: of granotoxin and what did that come from? While the 271 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: authors speculated it was probably derived from bees that eight 272 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: the nectar of the mountain laurel or Calmia latifolia. So 273 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: I know, if you're a honey fan, you're probably worrying like, oh, no, 274 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: am I gonna get mad honey? Probably not, probably, depending 275 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: on where you are and how you get your honey. 276 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: According to a Texas A and M University article citing 277 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: anthropologist Vaughan Bryant, you can find honey in the United States, 278 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: but not not so often so, Bryant says, quote, Normally, 279 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: there are not enough rhododendrons in one area for the 280 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: bees to make concentrated mad honey. However, sometimes there is 281 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: a late cold snap in the Eastern US that kills 282 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: a lot of flowers but doesn't seem to stun the rhododendrons. 283 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: Thus they're the only thing blooming and the bees will 284 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: focus all their attention on those flowers and produce concentrated 285 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: mad honey during that period. These flowers are mostly in 286 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: the Appalachian Mountains of the Eastern US. That also goes 287 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: with something I've read about this type of poisoning being 288 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: more common in the early spring. When I guess also 289 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: some of these granotoxin producing flowers are that they're more 290 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: cold resistant, might might bloom earlier where other flowers aren't available. Interesting, 291 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: so it would be the it would be these rare 292 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: incidences where the poisonous flowers, the toxic flowers are the 293 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: the only source for the bees. Yeah, because the bees 294 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: don't love them the most. The bees would rather have 295 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: another flower. But if all the other flowers are out 296 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: of the game for some reason, they will go to 297 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: the granotoxin plants and make their honey from that sweet, 298 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: sweet nectar that people also some people have a taste for. Now, 299 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: I'm guessing too that this is going to be more 300 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: of a situation with your certainly your wild honeys these 301 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: affected areas and may and maybe maybe with with some 302 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: like extreme indie honey. I guess you're probably not going 303 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: to get this from a mass produced honey because that 304 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: that involves. I mean, number one, there's just quality control, 305 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: so they tend to know what types of flowers the 306 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: nectar is coming from. But then there is also massive 307 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: mixing involved. So when you get mass produced honey. They're 308 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: blending together huge batches of honey from different hives, and 309 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: even if there were some containing toxin, it would probably 310 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: be mixed and thus diluted way down to a level 311 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: that's not a threat. Okay, So outside of the Black 312 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: Sea region, you would have to you would have to 313 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: really have a string of bad luck, I think, to 314 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: run across this stuff, right probably. I mean you could 315 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: come across if somebody's like a wild honey collector, you know, 316 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: or like you said, extreme indie honey uh and there 317 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: are they don't necessarily know what they're doing, or they 318 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: have some bad luck with with what flowers there bees 319 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: have access to, and they don't realize it in time 320 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: before they give it to somebody to eat. You could 321 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: encounter mad honey in other parts of the world, but 322 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: it's gonna definitely going to be most common in the 323 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: Black Sea region, especially in Turkey. So if you eat 324 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: some mad honey today, what's going to happen to you? Well, 325 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: clinical characteristics are gonna list a few. This is also 326 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: this is back to Jansen at all. So there's hypotension 327 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: meaning low blood pressure, problems with cardiac rhythm, nausea, vomiting, sweating, dizziness, 328 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: and quote impaired consciousness. It's kind of a euphemism, right. Uh. 329 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: There's also less often but still noted, fainting, blurred vision, 330 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:18,959 Speaker 1: diplopia or double visions, salivation, convulsions, atrial fibrillation, cardiac arrest, 331 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: and myocardial infarction meaning a heart attack. All that really 332 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: from a hit of bad honey. Yes, if you get 333 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: enough of a concentrated dose you and eat, you eat 334 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: enough of it, you can have symptoms like these. I 335 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: would have liked to have have have seen a clinical 336 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: list of symptoms that also included the various injuries that 337 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: the Persian military have afflicted on you in ancient times. 338 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: Side effects include massacre, yeah, dismemberment. But here's one more thing. 339 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: Not all known cases of mad honey poisoning or accidental 340 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: Sometimes people take grand a toxin contaminated honey intentionally as 341 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: an aphrodisiac or as an alternative medicine. And I think 342 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: the jury is still out as to whether at low 343 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: doses gryannotoxin may actually have some kind of positive effects. 344 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: I think it's not clear yet whether that actually is effective. 345 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: But the authors of the study I mentioned speculate that 346 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: regularly taking contaminated honey for these reasons may lead to 347 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: a condition called chronic mad honey intoxication syndrome. That sounds 348 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: like a syndrome you don't want to have to put 349 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: on your little form you fill out when you get 350 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: a new doctor. That's right. Alright, On that note, let's 351 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: take a quick breaking. When we come back, we will 352 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: discuss the dead man's fingers. All right, we're back, Robert. 353 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: You have piqued my interest dead man's fingers? Are you 354 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: literally talking about eating the fingers of a corpse? Um? No, 355 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: but in a way it's kind of figurative. So are you? 356 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: Are you? Are you? Yeah? Digitally if you will. But 357 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: here's the thing. Are you a crap band? Do you 358 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: enjoy eating crab? I don't eat it that often, but 359 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: I do like it. Do you What is the most 360 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: crab like form of your crab consumption? So? Do you? 361 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: Do you? Do you enjoy soft shell crab on the sandwich, 362 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: the legs and the claws sticking out on the sides. 363 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: It's another thing. I don't eat that often, but when 364 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: I've had it, I've liked it. Okay, It's it's my 365 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: absolute favorite. I think it's the it is the best 366 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: way to eat an animal where there's just there's there's 367 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: less deniability about what you're doing. You're just you're biting 368 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: into this crab. The whole shape is their shape is 369 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: there might as well eat a cockroach. Yeah, yeah, And 370 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: it's it's the meat, but also all these other substances 371 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: that are all fried up, all the other bits of 372 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: its anatomy. It's I feel like it's a very honest 373 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: mode of consumption, even though it is cooked. So it's 374 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: not like you're just eating the raw living crab. No. 375 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: I can get with that. Okay, well, this is uh, 376 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: we're not just talking about crabs here though, of course, 377 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about about the dead man's fingers, which if 378 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: you've ever actively in gay in the cook cooking of crabs, 379 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: and catching of crabs, then you you probably have some 380 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: degree of familiarity of what I'm talking about here. So 381 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: in our last Dangerous Foods episode, we discussed the manner 382 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: by which food goo puffer fish become edible via the 383 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,959 Speaker 1: skilled culinarya removal of certain tetrodo toxin laden inerts. Right, 384 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: if it's got certain organs that have especially high concentrations 385 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: of this toxin. Right, so you need a skilled chef 386 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: to cut that little sliver out, cook it up and 387 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: it's good to go, right, Yeah, But a good sushi 388 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: chef will know what they were, what they're doing, right, 389 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: they'll be able to get it out of there, and 390 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to worry about it if if you're 391 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: in good hands. Exactly. So this is faintly similar to that. 392 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: But but this is definitely a category where we're going 393 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: to be dispelling a lot of ideas about dangerous foods 394 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: rather than uh, you know, giving you the science but 395 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: behind why it's actually dangerous. Okay, Well, you've got to 396 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: tell me where the name comes from, Okay, Uh, as 397 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: far as I can tell that, the name itself is 398 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: just kind of lost to to history. You know, we 399 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: don't know like where, you know, what region this came from. 400 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: But you do find dead man's fingers in edible crabs, 401 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: and it's a it's of course, it's it's wonderful fear marketing. Right. 402 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: Decide if you have this rotting hand of the drowned 403 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: dead that's inside your food, and if you eat it, 404 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: according to the you know, the the urban legends It 405 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: depends what. It depends on the legend what happens. Maybe 406 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: you're gonna become violently ill, maybe you're going to contract 407 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: a disease. I found people who said, oh, yeah, when 408 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: when we were cleaning crabs as a kid, Um, my 409 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: parents are a big brother. You know. It depends who's 410 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: screwing with you, basically, and who's saying, oh, don't eat 411 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: those parts. If you eat the dead man's fingers, you'll die, 412 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: or you'll catch a disease, or or you'll become violently ill. Uh. 413 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: The versions are various, but I find the stories particularly 414 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: interesting given our relationship with crabs, creatures that we have 415 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: to keep alive and then cook alive in order to 416 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: to eat them. So it's it's perfectly strange that we 417 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: summon this tiny, rotting humanoid hand inside the body of 418 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: our victim. Yeah, that is a nice metaphor. Is like 419 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: that the hand that places them into the pot of 420 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: boiling water comes back from inside the shell. Yeah, So 421 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: it's kind of kind of beautiful in its own way. 422 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: And uh, and in trying to figure this out, because 423 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna spoil it just yet. If you don't 424 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: know what the dead man's hand is you might expect 425 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: it to be something related to digestion, right, Yeah, I'm 426 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: guessing crab anus or I don't know. No, as far 427 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 1: as I know, you you you eat the that portion 428 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: of the crab, at least with the soft show crab. 429 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: But but but you know, there are plenty of examples 430 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: of animals for which we cast aside certain internal organs um, 431 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: either out of necessity or just we don't want to 432 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: bother processing them into sausages or dog food or whatever. Uh. 433 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 1: Even the komodo dragon will sling the intestines of intestines 434 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: of a kill around in order to loosen the feces 435 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: from the intestines so that they can eat them. So yeah, 436 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: I've never heard that. Yeah, it's pretty great because they yeah, 437 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: they don't like, uh, eating feces, but they do want 438 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: the large intestine. Yeah. Yeah, they're tasty. They'll eat everything 439 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: but that. And the baby komodo dragons there's no child 440 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: rearing and komodo dragon culture. Uh so the baby komotos 441 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: have to have to climb up trees to get away 442 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: from the adults who will try to eat them, but 443 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: they can. They've also been observed to smear themselves in 444 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: feces and or at least they wind up covered in feces, 445 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: and then the parents will not eat them because they're disgusting. 446 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like Predator with Arnold Swartzenegger in 447 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: the mud, but they can't see them, they're just not tasty. Yeah, 448 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: that would be a good interpretation on Predator. Oh yeah, 449 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: what if all all the mud was poop and then 450 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: the predators just like, look, I can't do this exactly. 451 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: That's what was going on the whole time. He could 452 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: see him. But you know, but anyway, but based on 453 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: all of this, it feels somewhat accurate that there would 454 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: be the sickening, disease spreading or even deadly portion of 455 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: the common food crap, Right, Yeah, I would think so 456 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,239 Speaker 1: minds up with the off or at least with just 457 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: intuitively looking at a crab it looks like something that 458 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: would have poisonous parts. Yeah, you would look at it, 459 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: it looks back at you, and you might ask yourself, 460 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: can I eat all of this? Clearly not, because a 461 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: lot of it's very very hard and pointy. So the 462 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: fingers that we're talking about here are nothing more than 463 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: the crabs gills, and this is where respiration and filtration 464 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: takes place. And they consist of uh many different plume 465 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: like filaments arranged around a central axis. In the blue crab, 466 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: for instance, there are eight gills on either side. So 467 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: and and if I guess, if you, you kind of 468 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: squint at them, and I've I've looked at him when 469 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 1: cleaning crabs and instructed by my my in laws who 470 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: know what they're doing, and I do not know what 471 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: I'm doing, but they tell me, oh, that's the dead 472 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: man's hand right there. Are they like crab country people? 473 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, my uh, my wife's family has Cajun 474 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: blood and her brother lives down in um in Ocean Springs, Mississippi. 475 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, they look like constantly crabbing, catching crabs, bringing 476 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: them back. The whole family have taken them apart um, 477 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: and it's it's good eating. But but yeah, if you really, 478 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: if you, if you want to interpret it as such, 479 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: the dead man's hand might look like a little diseased 480 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: lepre con claw or something or two of them. Now, 481 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: the reality here, of course, is the crab is an organism, 482 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: so there's a lot going on underneath that shell um 483 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: or you know, underneath where the shell would be. If 484 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: you're using a soft shell, the white muscle meat, that's 485 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: the prize stuff. That's the stuff that gets picked away 486 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: and put into other other recipes. That's the stuff you 487 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: might buy in bulk, pre picked for an exaggerated price. 488 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: But you also find all these other things. If you've 489 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: ever cleaned a crab, or if you've ever eaten soft 490 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: shell crab, you know what I'm talking about. There's just 491 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: some weird, nasty sauce inside the carapace. Potentially a lot 492 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: of it's open to interpretation because there's there's a yellowish 493 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: mustard that is the fat. In females you'll find orange ovaries, 494 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: and in males who find a small white testies. There's 495 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: a stomach, there's a little gray heart, there are intestines, 496 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: there is an anus. Everything you might expect to find 497 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: when you're taking apart an animal. Uh, certainly one that 498 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: was just living before you know, boiled it up or um. 499 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: And and also if you're eating a s fried sauceshell 500 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: crab right off the bun, you definitely encounter that that 501 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: yellow mustard fat and all these other ingredients. So we're 502 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: you supposed to get rid of that stuff or what. Well, 503 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: the instructions vary, so you know, some people are gonna 504 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: be very pure about their about the picked crab, right 505 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: because that's that's the meat, and that if you're if 506 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: you're picking apart cooked crabs, you're just gonna probably eat 507 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: the meat out of it. Right. But uh, but but 508 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: it it depends. I mean, the most of this is edible. 509 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: The fat is certainly edible, and with soft shell crabs 510 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: you just kind of bite into the whole thing and 511 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: just eat it whole like a monster. But at at 512 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: most what generally what is is prescribed as that you 513 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: remove the eyes, and you remove the gills the dead 514 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: man's fingers, and it's not because they're poise, no, but 515 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: because they're chewy and its cartilage and and they might 516 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: be a bit bitter. But it's not a do or 517 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: die situation. It's merely a these are the parts of 518 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,719 Speaker 1: the crab that are not delicious and or are not 519 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: fun to eat, but they're not poisonous, they don't carry diseases, 520 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: and interestingly enough, you know it also is going to 521 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: depend on the culture. I ran across a wonderful Serious 522 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: Eats article by writer Chee Chee Wang and she does 523 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: this series titled The Nasty Bits, where she she she 524 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: talks about the the Nasty Bits of various um foods 525 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: sources uh and in particular she talks about about crabs. 526 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: In one of these, she cuts open a live crab 527 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: and tries out crab miso or connie miso, which is 528 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: this Japanese tradition that typically involves cooking a partially vivisected 529 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: crab directly over a low burning flame. Wow. Yeah, it's 530 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: like cooking it in its little shell after you just 531 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: cut it open. That's brutal. It well, I mean, it's 532 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: all of its brutal, that's true. But but here's a 533 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: quote from it, because she sums it up really nicely. 534 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: I poured a bit of saki into the shell. The 535 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: grayish green contents bubbled vigorously over the small flame. I 536 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,959 Speaker 1: cooked the parts until they were just heated through, soft 537 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: and rich, with a taste not unlike liver. The kenny 538 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: miso was a delight to eat right out of the shell, 539 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: though I saved a portion of it to have on toast, 540 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: and yet another to have with rice. And did you 541 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: look very you know, very cool. We eat all sorts 542 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: of weird parts of animals. Uh, some are more acquired 543 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: taste than others. So it makes sense, especially in a 544 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: within Japanese cuisine, right, that is so dependent upon the 545 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: riches of the ocean, that there would be uh, a 546 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: finer use of the crab inerts here. Well, I gotta 547 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: respect that. But the dead man dead man's fingers, specifically 548 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: the gills. So you're saying, not poisonous, nothing to this 549 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: myth at all. Nope, not poisonous, not gonna cause a disease, 550 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: not gonna kill you. It's just a taste issue. It's 551 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: uh and uh and and the consistency of it. And 552 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: yet some would find even a way to appreciate that. Yeah, 553 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: that's right. I mean there are diverse flavors to play 554 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: with there beyond the white meat of the crab. And uh. 555 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about this, especially if 556 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: you have access or obligations of surrounding live crabs and 557 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: freshly cooked crabs and and you know, pulling them apart. 558 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: I ran across a wonderful pdf from math in science 559 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: dot info. It's like an educational website, and this particular 560 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: pdf guides you through a quote edible dissection of a 561 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: blue crab. And so it's it's kind of a combination 562 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: between a you know, like a school like a biology class, dissection, 563 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: and culinary preparation. So it it takes you through the 564 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: creatures anatomy as you take it apart, and also tells 565 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: you what you can eat and how you go about 566 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: eating it. Well. I do think in general for people, 567 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: if you're gonna eat meat, if you're gonna eat the 568 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: body parts of an organism, I think it's good to 569 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: familiar yourself, familiarize yourself with that organism and the parts 570 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: you're reading are and where they come from. Yeah, I agree. 571 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: I mean I think we do we do ourselves. We 572 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: do our and we do our animals a disservice when 573 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: we distance ourselves from the source and the reality of 574 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: our sustenance. Yeah, if you just think about the meat 575 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: that you're eating as a thing that arrives wrapped in 576 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: plastic wrap. Yeah, maybe with a mystical dead leprica in 577 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: hand there at some point. So I'll include links out 578 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: to both the Nasty Bits Uh article as well as 579 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: the edible dissection instructions on the landing page for this 580 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: episode of Stuff to Blame. Mind dot Com Okay, Robert, 581 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: I have a food to ask about, and I only 582 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,959 Speaker 1: know about it because of a line in Monty Python 583 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: and the Holy Grail. I remember, you remember the scene 584 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: with the French character who's taunting Arthur and his nights. 585 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: I think that's played by John Cleese, right, yes, yeah, 586 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: and he outrageous French knights. Yeah. Yeah, So he gives 587 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: a lot, he gives a lot of great insults to 588 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: the Knights of Camelot, and at one point he alleges 589 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: that their father smelled of elderberries. And I always found 590 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: that funny. But it's one of those things where I'm 591 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: sure you've had this experience where you find something funny 592 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: without knowing what it means. It's just the sound of 593 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: the words that makes you laugh. I've never seen an elderberry. 594 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: I've never, as far as I know, never tasted an elderberry. 595 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what the deal with them is. But 596 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: are they poisonous? Um? Yeah? This is an interesting, uh subject, 597 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,479 Speaker 1: because elderberries are another example of a food item that 598 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: can prove dangerous if you consume it raw and under 599 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: the rise circumstances. But it's also regularly traditionally used in 600 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: you know, cooking for in various consumable forms. It's been 601 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,239 Speaker 1: used in medicine for ages, it has antioxidant properties, it's 602 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: used to treat sinus infection, cold and flu and then 603 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: on on the culinary side, has been used in jams, pies, 604 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: liqueurs and according to BBC Good Food, it is a 605 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: must for quote the famous German black forest ham that 606 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: is salted in seasoned with spices, elderberries and juniper berries. Yeah, 607 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: and the liqueur in particular, it's actually similar to gin, 608 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: which is created with the with juniper berries, so it's 609 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: uh similar to that. But um, but this is an 610 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: elder berries is something you tend to pick wild, and 611 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: it's especially a thing in traditional English cooking because this 612 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: is something you would you would run out to the 613 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: hedgerow and you'd pick some elder berry and you'd bring 614 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: it back, but not stand there at the hedgerow eating raw. 615 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: Right aspect, Well, there are accounts of people eating it, 616 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: and there are accounts of people eating it raw and 617 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: not feeling any symptoms from it. But this is not 618 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: this is certainly not recommended. Um. So the the UK's 619 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: Food Standards Agency recommends cooking elderberries to destroy toxins that 620 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: are present in the raw berries. And it's also a 621 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: general rule of thumb to avoid unrighte berries. So generally 622 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: the way this, uh, this is gonna work is that 623 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: you you're only gonna deal with blue or purple berries, 624 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: and you're gonna avoid the red ones completely. So they 625 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: tend to like dark nd as they age. Yes, yes, 626 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: so you avoid the ripe ones. Uh. It's also also 627 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: a general good rule of thumb. Pregnant breastfeeding individuals as 628 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: well as people with autoimmune conditions autoimmune deficiencies rather are 629 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: encouraged to skip elder berries because there is that possibility 630 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: for there's also a possibility for for interactions with various 631 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: UH drugs. But but generally speaking, if it's cooked, it's 632 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: prepared properly, especially like you know, jams, desserts, etcetera. It's 633 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: not being consumed on its own, then you're you're you're fine. 634 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: It's been used without incident, you know, for for for ages, um, 635 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: they're There are different varieties of elderberry, and the main 636 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: ones that you encountered. There's uh sambusis nigra, which is 637 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,919 Speaker 1: uh the European elder, also called the black elder, and 638 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: that one is most often used for medicinal purposes. And 639 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: then it's generally advised to avoid the dwarf elder to 640 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: samboosis elvis uh completely and because he gives you a 641 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: cursed magical stone. Yeah, it's it sounds wonderful that the 642 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: black elder in the forest meet the black elder at 643 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: the hedgerow. But uh, but yeah so but but in 644 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: terms of what's toxic here, the active alkaloids in elderberry 645 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: plants are hydrocyanic acid and uh samboosin, and both will 646 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: cause nausea sam boosey. And is there any connection to 647 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: sambuca or those just set a false cognate? That may 648 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: be a false cognate. I cannot say one way or 649 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: another on that, but I doubt it. Okay, So, so far, 650 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: we've talked about mad Honey, We've talked about dead man's fingers, 651 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: We've talked about elder berries. Uh, what what is next? 652 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: Surely there's some exotic food item that you have for 653 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,839 Speaker 1: us to discuss. Well, Robert, I want to take you 654 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 1: on a food poisoning mystery adventure in nineteen seventies England. 655 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: This is fitting to follow elderberry So in nineteen seventy nine, 656 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: on the second day of the autumn term at a 657 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,280 Speaker 1: school in South London, bunch of schoolboys, all the boys, 658 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:25,720 Speaker 1: they're lined up for a school lunch including steak pie, gravy, 659 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: boiled potatoes, cabbage and or canned carrots, followed by a 660 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: dessert of apricots or something called quote syrup sponge pudding. Oh, 661 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: that sounds delicious. If our British listeners can tell me 662 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: what that is, I would love to know sponge pudding. Anyway. 663 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: After this lunch, seventy eight boys who had eaten the 664 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: school lunch became sick with things like abdominal pain or 665 00:37:54,000 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: diarrhea or vomiting, headache, fever. Seventeen had to go to 666 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 1: the hospital, and three of those were considered dangerously ill. 667 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: Uh two had what was reported as minimal pain, but 668 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: quote diarrhea was copious. And what I'm quoting from here 669 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: is the nine edition of the Quarterly Journal of Medicine 670 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: and article by Mary McMillan and J. C. Thompson. Continuing, 671 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: the three boys considered dangerously ill were comatose or in 672 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: a stupor and had peripheral circulatory collapse when they were 673 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: admitted to the hospital. The others admitted to the hospital 674 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: had symptoms such as convulsive twitching or spasms, confusion, hallucination, 675 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: and general delirium. Now, fortunately nobody died. All of the 676 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: boys were well enough to go back home within six 677 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: to eleven days of admission, but with a few of 678 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,919 Speaker 1: them it seemed very close. So what had made them sick? 679 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: Onto the hunt lab tests for bacterial and viral infection. 680 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: All are negative, so it was not a microbial infection 681 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: of any kind. Doctors also tested the boy's blood and 682 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: feces to see if they could detect other toxic substances, 683 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: for example, elevated levels of lead, arsenic copper. They also 684 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: looked for zinc because at the time, zinc phosphide was 685 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: used as a common rat poison. They looked for signs 686 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: of organic compounds such as nicotine, organophosphor us, various pesticides, 687 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: and defoliants. All of it negative. Okay, So if we 688 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: ruled out the syrup sponge putting it no, not necessarily no, 689 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: all of these could be suspect. What if it was 690 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,280 Speaker 1: the gravy. We don't know what's in gravy. Finally, well, 691 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: that is what's in school lunch. Maybe the same thing 692 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: that's in syrup sponge putting mostly circus animals. Right. Finally, 693 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: one doctor Mary Whittaker of the University of Exeter, as 694 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,800 Speaker 1: well as the authors of the study I just mentioned, 695 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: Mary McMillan and J. C. Thompson, Um they determine the culprit. 696 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: They found that the sick boy's blood plasma had a 697 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: deficiency of something called pseudocolonesterrace. Okay, now I gotta explain 698 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: a little body chemistry here. Colonester race is a naturally 699 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 1: occurring enzyme in your body. It's in your blood plasma, 700 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: and it's necessary for the correct functioning of an animal's 701 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: nervous system. So your body, like other animal bodies, has 702 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,240 Speaker 1: a nervous system as its command center, and your muscles, skin, 703 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,280 Speaker 1: inner organs don't do much without the nervous system telling 704 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: them to do it. And you shouldn't just think about 705 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,439 Speaker 1: this in the you know, conscious, deliberate sense of using 706 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: your brain to move your skeletal muscles to jump over 707 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: a pothole or throw a bowl of soup at somebody, 708 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 1: or whatever it is you do with your body. Uh. 709 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: This also applies to the unconscious functioning of most of 710 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: your internal organs. They need electrical stimulation or inhibition from 711 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: the nervous system, and these electrical signals are transported through 712 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: the body through structures called synapses. Synapses, of course we've 713 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: talked about them on the show before, but they're the 714 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: gateways between neurons or nerve cells, and they allow electrical 715 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: and chemical signals to pass through. And so these signals 716 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,320 Speaker 1: are often carried by a chemical called acetal coline. Meanwhile, 717 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 1: you can stop these signals with a specific colon ester 718 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,879 Speaker 1: as enzyme called acetal colon ester ace, which breaks down 719 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: the acetal coline that allows the passage of the signals. 720 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: So you need both. You need both chemicals in your 721 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: body to allow and regulate proper functioning of the nervous system. 722 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,240 Speaker 1: If you don't have enough colon ester as to break 723 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: down the acetal coline, your nervous system is going to 724 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: start to experience the equivalent of a street congested with 725 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: lots of cars and the cars won't stop, so you 726 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: can experience negative effects all over the body as a 727 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: result of the nervous system being unable to effectively inhibit 728 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: signals firing across synapses. Okay, so if this were a 729 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: game of clue. At this point, we kind of know 730 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: what the murder weapon was, but not who or whether 731 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: what the murder is? Is it the Yeah? What was 732 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: it was? It? Was it Colonel Syrup, sponge Pudding, or 733 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 1: General Gravy or one of these other fine suspects, or 734 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: in the British version, Reverend Gravy. Uh yeah, good questions. So, so, 735 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: the boys had been poisoned by something that inhibited the 736 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: production of colon ester as in their bodies, or it 737 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: generally inhibited colonester as. Actually I can't remember if it 738 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: was the production or if it naturally lowered. Anyway, they 739 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: had decreased colon ester as and this allowed the researchers 740 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: to isolate the cause of the outbreak because they knew 741 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,279 Speaker 1: what in the meal had the ability to do that. 742 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: Potatoes poisoned potatoes. And before you think what, who on 743 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,680 Speaker 1: earth would try to poison a group of English schoolboys 744 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: with a weapon as pure and honest as the potato, 745 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: The answer is nobody. It wasn't intentional at all. The 746 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: poisoning was traced to a act of old potatoes in 747 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,280 Speaker 1: the school kitchen that had been sitting around since summer 748 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: long enough to develop a formidable poison profile. The potatoes 749 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 1: were poisoned by their very own nature, and this was 750 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: backed up by interviews with the students, where it was 751 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: later found that the really the only thing all of 752 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: the students who became sick had in common was that 753 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: they'd eaten the potatoes. For example, like a vegetarian student 754 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,320 Speaker 1: was poisoned, and the other things had different options about 755 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: desserts and stuff, but all the sick boys had eaten 756 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: those old potatoes from the summer term. So how on 757 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: earth would an old potato from the summer term do 758 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: something that crazy, dear nervous system. Well, the everyday potato 759 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: is the tuber of a plant called Solanum tuberosum, which 760 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: is a member of the plant family uh solanassier, or 761 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 1: the nightshade family, which of course you might recall is 762 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: sort of known for its poisons. Eggplants, tomatoes, and some 763 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,320 Speaker 1: of their fruits are also members of this family. Potato 764 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: plants naturally contain a range of defensive poisons called glycoalkaloids, 765 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: and two primary alkaloids, and potatoes are called solanine and 766 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,680 Speaker 1: check a seine, and in most cases of potato poisoning. 767 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: The solanine is the one that gets most often singled 768 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: out by name as the primary cause of illness, but 769 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,719 Speaker 1: there there are multiple glycoalkaloids at work, and these toxins 770 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 1: can be found in many parts of the plant. So 771 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,960 Speaker 1: if you ever decide to grow a potato plant for 772 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: yourself and your home garden, do not eat the fruit 773 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,320 Speaker 1: of this plant, do not eat its flowers, and don't 774 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,279 Speaker 1: get it in your head to make yourself a nice 775 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: cup of potato leaf tea, because all throughout the plant 776 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 1: you will find the presence of these glycoalkaloid poisons that 777 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: can do to you what happened to these South London 778 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: school boys. Now, most recorded cases of solanine poisoning do 779 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,279 Speaker 1: not end in death, but in some cases, especially where 780 00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:00,040 Speaker 1: they're like aggregating factors such as malnutrition or starvation and 781 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: at play, solanine poisonings can be deadly. And I want 782 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: to give a few examples from a book about food 783 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 1: intolerance called Was It Something You Ate? By John Emsley 784 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: and Peter Fell, published by Oxford University Press in two 785 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: thousand two. Uh they signed an example where during the 786 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: Korean War, food shortages in North Korea forced people in 787 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 1: many communities to survive on things like rotten potatoes, and 788 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: in one area, three and eighty two people became sick 789 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 1: from solanine poisoning, of which fifty five were hospitalized and 790 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,760 Speaker 1: twenty two died. Symptoms included weak pulse, blue lips and ears, 791 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 1: pale skin, enlargement of the heart and liver, swelling of 792 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 1: the face, abdomen and extremities, and death usually occurred within 793 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 1: five to ten days. In the cases where people died 794 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: in the last stages before death, people experienced excitability and 795 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: attacks of shaking all over the body, and they eventually 796 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: died from respiratory failure. It's reported, and there are a 797 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,320 Speaker 1: couple of other cases. In nineteen eighteen in Glasgow, Scotland, 798 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,240 Speaker 1: sixty one people got sick with vomiting, diarrhea and headache 799 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: after eating potatoes. Of them, one boy died of strangulation 800 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,680 Speaker 1: of the bowel. And also in nineteen a family of 801 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,280 Speaker 1: seven was poisoned by green potatoes and two of them died. 802 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 1: Well Joe, At this point, I imagine a lot of 803 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: our listeners are thinking, well, heck, we live in of 804 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: a French fry nation, live in a a fully loaded 805 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,839 Speaker 1: baked potato nation. This is this is bad news. I mean, 806 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,959 Speaker 1: we eat so much potato, our children eat so many 807 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 1: potato products. The how do we steer clear of this 808 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,400 Speaker 1: potato poisoning? Are we begging for death? Yeah? How to 809 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,239 Speaker 1: avoid uh? The reaper soulanine and its chemical brethren in 810 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,400 Speaker 1: hoods Uh. No, So most potatoes are fine. This is 811 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 1: the thing you really shouldn't worry about. And there are 812 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,600 Speaker 1: clear signals to look out for, and I'll tell you 813 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,960 Speaker 1: what they are. But there's no reason to freak out 814 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: about potatoes in general. Potatoes do contain some amount of 815 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 1: solanine naturally, and actually Dr Harriet hall Over at Science 816 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,880 Speaker 1: Based Medicine has a really good blog post about this 817 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 1: about general souleanine content and potatoes. She writes, quote, it's 818 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 1: estimated that it would take two to five milligrams per 819 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: kilogram of body weight to produce toxic symptoms. And she's 820 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: referring to soulanine there and the glycoalkaloids. A large potato 821 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: weighs about three hundred grams and has a soulanine content 822 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 1: of less than zero point two milligrams per gram. That 823 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 1: works out to about zero point zero three milligrams per 824 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: kilogram for an adult, a hundredth of the toxic dose. 825 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,600 Speaker 1: I figure a murderous wife would have to feed something 826 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,880 Speaker 1: like sixty seven large potatoes to her husband in a 827 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,319 Speaker 1: single meal to poison him, unless he's a phenomenally big 828 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,240 Speaker 1: eater or arsenic would be a better bet. So regular 829 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 1: potatoes with normal soulenine content. This is not something you 830 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 1: need to worry it, right, unless you're eating hundreds of potatoes, 831 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 1: and then you probab we need to worry about all 832 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,960 Speaker 1: those sunfries. Yeah, yeah, you'll probably have I don't know, 833 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 1: a reaction to the salt first or something. But properly 834 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,880 Speaker 1: farmed potatoes produced by experienced growers tend to be bread 835 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,319 Speaker 1: for really low glcoalkaloid and specifically solanine content in the 836 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 1: tuber much lower than you'd find in a wild potato. 837 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,360 Speaker 1: Uh And according to that Emsley and fell book I 838 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, the average potato has maybe three to six 839 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,719 Speaker 1: milligrams of solanine per grams of mass, so that might 840 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,319 Speaker 1: be a different figure than Hall had, but either way, 841 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: this is not a threat. Most of this also is 842 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,080 Speaker 1: going to be on the outside near the peel, so 843 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: if you peel the potato, you're probably getting rid of 844 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,640 Speaker 1: most of it, and the concentration of solanine and the 845 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,080 Speaker 1: potato tends to increase if the potato is bruised or 846 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:52,359 Speaker 1: exposed to light, which tends to cause greening. You've seen 847 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,959 Speaker 1: green potatoes before, those are the ones you don't eat. 848 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 1: Solanine is generally found in UH in higher proportions, and 849 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: potatoes that are have turned green or especially have begun 850 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: to sprout. I think that, Yeah, where I've seen the 851 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: green potatoes the most have been the the sort of 852 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: science classroom potato experiments. Yes, well you you have it, 853 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: have toothpicks stuck in it, and you're you're you're growing 854 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 1: it out or something. Yeah, and it's been exposed to 855 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 1: light for a long period or Mr or classic Mr 856 00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: Potato head. I imagine. I don't know that I've ever 857 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: actually encountered one of those. Oh, I've never thought about 858 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,560 Speaker 1: him being poisoned, but he really probably is. It gets 859 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,040 Speaker 1: out on the counter all day. Well, so you're thinking, 860 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,480 Speaker 1: how can I know to avoid this kind of poisoning? 861 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: How do I keep the glycoalkaloids out of my body? Well? 862 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: Simple steps. Store your potatoes in a cool, dry place. 863 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,000 Speaker 1: Don't eat old potatoes, don't eat a potato that is 864 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: green or sprouting. And if you're in doubt, peel your 865 00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,560 Speaker 1: potatoes because there is likely much more poison in the 866 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,839 Speaker 1: peel than in the starchy center. All right, I feel 867 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,480 Speaker 1: better At this point, I was a little nervous, so 868 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 1: now I feel better. Okay. Another fun fact about the 869 00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: green potatoes, though, the green you see in a green 870 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,680 Speaker 1: potato that maybe quite poisonous is not soulanine or any 871 00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 1: other glycoalkaloid itself, but regular old chlorophyll stuff that makes 872 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,960 Speaker 1: plants green. The solanine and the chlorophyll chlorophyll, they're just correlated. 873 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,879 Speaker 1: So if you see chlorophyll, it probably means there are 874 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,640 Speaker 1: metabolic processes going on in the potato. Uh that This 875 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,080 Speaker 1: means it's probably been exposed to sun or something which 876 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:27,439 Speaker 1: tends to increase the soulanine content. One last historical side note. 877 00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 1: In the mid nineteen sixties, researchers in the United States 878 00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,359 Speaker 1: bred a new strain of potato that was known as 879 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,720 Speaker 1: the Lenape potato, and it was released in November nineteen 880 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,640 Speaker 1: sixty seven by the Crops Research Division of the U. 881 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:46,480 Speaker 1: S Department of Agriculture and the Agricultural Experiment Station of Pennsylvania. 882 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 1: And it was a cross between some existing potato varieties 883 00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:54,440 Speaker 1: selected to create a tuber perfect for making potato chips. 884 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,799 Speaker 1: So it had a high specific gravity, meaning a high 885 00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,480 Speaker 1: solids content that's a dry matter, and a resistance to 886 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 1: common parasites and potato diseases such as late blight, potato scab, 887 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,360 Speaker 1: mild mosaic and tuber necrosis from leaf roll and stem 888 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,319 Speaker 1: end browning. No potatoes have the best disease name, do 889 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:16,640 Speaker 1: I mean? I guess that they're just they're just ready 890 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,960 Speaker 1: for they're always already a little bit grotesque, right, Yeah. 891 00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,680 Speaker 1: And it was also considered to make potato chips with 892 00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 1: good color, could make good potato chips even after it's 893 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: been in cold storage. So new superior potato. But this 894 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,080 Speaker 1: is the age if you want to pristine, just shining 895 00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,439 Speaker 1: like ivory white potato chip. Before we reached this age 896 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,719 Speaker 1: of like cool multicolored potato chips exactly people wanted it. 897 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,480 Speaker 1: It should look like it was made out of plastic. 898 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,640 Speaker 1: But unfortunately there was a problem. The lenape varietal was 899 00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:50,840 Speaker 1: found to have a defect. It was poisonous. Reportedly able 900 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 1: to cause headaches, nausea, vomiting, fever, bad symptoms. And what 901 00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,160 Speaker 1: was the culprit. Well, the potato naturally contained elevated levels 902 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,719 Speaker 1: of glycoalkaloids. So the lenape potato was withdrawn from consumer 903 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,399 Speaker 1: consumer production production and shame. I don't I don't think 904 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,880 Speaker 1: it actually ever made it to the stores to the 905 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,600 Speaker 1: consumers themselves, or if it did, it was pretty soon 906 00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 1: after withdrawn. But reading up on this, I wanted to 907 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,160 Speaker 1: note it was my first occasion to check out a 908 00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,560 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties edition of the American Potato Journal. Oh yeah, 909 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,080 Speaker 1: this is your first experience. You're not picked up this 910 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:31,719 Speaker 1: this journal previously. It's so fascinating journal. But also I 911 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,280 Speaker 1: wanted to mention that I think because of its inclusion 912 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,440 Speaker 1: and influential book, the story about the lenape potato was 913 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,680 Speaker 1: often referenced in the nineteen nineties during the first big 914 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,640 Speaker 1: debate on GMO crops, though the poison potato itself was 915 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,839 Speaker 1: the product of more traditional plant breeding. Yeah, like that's 916 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,239 Speaker 1: the thing, right, I mean, we've been with our with 917 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,919 Speaker 1: our cultivated um agricultural products. We have been manipulating them 918 00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:00,279 Speaker 1: for quite a while, exactly regular levels like non genetic manipulation. 919 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,080 Speaker 1: I mean really by the virtue, I mean it's still 920 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 1: genetic manipulation. We've been we've been manipulating these plants for ages. Yeah, exactly. 921 00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,040 Speaker 1: I think it was just generally considered an example of 922 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,920 Speaker 1: the dangers of what happens when you use science to 923 00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,759 Speaker 1: mess around with pure natural foods. But of course, the 924 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,839 Speaker 1: other potato varieties that you know, we know and love 925 00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,319 Speaker 1: are the product of agriculture and breeding, and you know, 926 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 1: scientific investigation into the Mendalian genetics of potato varietals. Uh, 927 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,839 Speaker 1: and a much less dangerous you can produce a much 928 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:37,839 Speaker 1: less dangerous potato through these processes than the glycoalkaloid rich 929 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,760 Speaker 1: wild potato. So I'm not sure what kind of argument 930 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:46,120 Speaker 1: that makes really, So we're continuing to to to try 931 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,040 Speaker 1: and breathe the quizettees Hadiac of the potato. But there's 932 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,960 Speaker 1: always any potatoes. There's always the chance you'll create these 933 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,920 Speaker 1: various monsters on the way, right, I think, So all right, 934 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, 935 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,719 Speaker 1: we will jump into another dangerous food example, and yes, 936 00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:11,040 Speaker 1: there will be at least one more dune reference. All right, 937 00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,760 Speaker 1: we're back so this is a big one. Of course. 938 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,560 Speaker 1: I think everybody's run across an example of this, someone 939 00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:21,360 Speaker 1: saying the apple, the sweet, innocent apple, the everyday apple 940 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,400 Speaker 1: a day keeps the doctor away. Fruit. This contains seeds, 941 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,279 Speaker 1: and if you eat these seeds, you will you will 942 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,879 Speaker 1: be become poisoned and you will die. If you heard 943 00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,319 Speaker 1: variations of this, I don't know if I've been told 944 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,000 Speaker 1: I would die, but I've heard that the seeds contain poison, 945 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,640 Speaker 1: and I think in a limited sense that is true, correct, 946 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 1: I mean, it is true. It's one of is as 947 00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,839 Speaker 1: we'll discussed, it's definitely one of these cases where you 948 00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,800 Speaker 1: are not going to poison yourself eating the seeds of apples. 949 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: It's just there. There's there's no there's no record of 950 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,040 Speaker 1: this ever happening, And when you start looking at the 951 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,080 Speaker 1: math and the quantity of toxins and the seeds, it's 952 00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,960 Speaker 1: just it's just impossible. Yeah. I think, as almost everything 953 00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,240 Speaker 1: else we've talked about in this episode, the old adage 954 00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,880 Speaker 1: in chemistry holds true. Or is it chemistry toxicology? The 955 00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:13,360 Speaker 1: dose makes the poison anything, including water, including sugar, including whatever. 956 00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,759 Speaker 1: Anything in the correct dose had just poisonous. So the 957 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,400 Speaker 1: question is how much of it are you getting and 958 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,520 Speaker 1: how little does it take to hurt you? Yeah, So 959 00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,200 Speaker 1: the reality here is that, yes, the seeds, pits, and 960 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:30,600 Speaker 1: stones of many varieties of fruit contains small amounts of cyanide. Uh. 961 00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:32,880 Speaker 1: There are a number of forms of cyanide, and if 962 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,319 Speaker 1: you take enough of the wrong one or the right one, 963 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,280 Speaker 1: depending on what your your goal is, you can suffer poisoning. 964 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 1: Symptoms include headache, dizziness, fast heart rate, shortness of breath, 965 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,320 Speaker 1: and vomiting. Uh. This may be followed by seizure, slow 966 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,680 Speaker 1: heart rate, low blood pressure, loss of consciousness, and you know, 967 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,279 Speaker 1: cardiac arrest and death. I mean it's cyanide. It's it's 968 00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:58,680 Speaker 1: a poison. Now. Apples in particular contain a compound called 969 00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,400 Speaker 1: amygdalin in their seed, and this is a cyanide and 970 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,960 Speaker 1: sugar based molecule. All right, So if you start chewing 971 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:11,040 Speaker 1: the seeds, uh, your saliva enzymes they hit this particular compound, 972 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,880 Speaker 1: They cut off the sugar part from the molecule, and 973 00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,320 Speaker 1: the remainder then can decompose to produce the poisonous gas 974 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:23,320 Speaker 1: hydrogen cyanide. Yeah, which which sounds crazy and and definitely 975 00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,320 Speaker 1: makes me think of that scene in Dune where where 976 00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,319 Speaker 1: where the duke bites into the poison tooth in his mouth, uh, 977 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,400 Speaker 1: and then breathes out in an attempt to kill his captors, 978 00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,799 Speaker 1: to kill the Vladimir Harconin. Oh, that's a that's a 979 00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,880 Speaker 1: good scene. It's a great scene. Yeah, and and it 980 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,640 Speaker 1: makes you think, well, maybe you should just bitten into 981 00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,440 Speaker 1: an apple and just doesn't He fails to kill Harcona. 982 00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,759 Speaker 1: He does. He kills Peter. Oh, Peter de Fries. Yeah, 983 00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:48,200 Speaker 1: he's he's so he's able to take out one of 984 00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,760 Speaker 1: the batties. But uh, but but luck, pure luck saves 985 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,359 Speaker 1: the baron as you allude to. Yeah, that scene would 986 00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,560 Speaker 1: have been much more awkward if he'd been trying to 987 00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,719 Speaker 1: hold on while I eat sixty apples. You allow me 988 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,120 Speaker 1: to to the My final request is that you give 989 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,120 Speaker 1: me unlimited apple seeds to chew, and you hang out 990 00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,080 Speaker 1: really close to my face. It would have it was 991 00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,759 Speaker 1: not that that is not a ment at created plan, 992 00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:13,680 Speaker 1: a mentat approved plan. Okay, but so how many seeds 993 00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,240 Speaker 1: does it really take? Okay? So here's another case, as 994 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:18,920 Speaker 1: like we did in a previous example, where you have 995 00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:23,320 Speaker 1: to bust out some grams and milligrams. So cyanide toxicity 996 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,080 Speaker 1: and humans, you're generally talking point five to three point 997 00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:31,120 Speaker 1: five milligrams per kilogram of body weight, so you know, 998 00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,840 Speaker 1: it depends on your body how big you are. Um 999 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,120 Speaker 1: for a fatal dose, you'd need to hit at least 1000 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,240 Speaker 1: one point five milligrams per kilogram of body weight. Okay, 1001 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,280 Speaker 1: so that's kind of you. Now you have a basic 1002 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:49,640 Speaker 1: range of toxicity and death. The seeds of the apple themselves. 1003 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:55,000 Speaker 1: You're looking at three milligrams of cyanide per gram of seeds, 1004 00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:59,000 Speaker 1: and one seed is approximately point seven grams, so you 1005 00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:03,640 Speaker 1: would be like two points something milligrams of cyanide per seed. Yeah, 1006 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,880 Speaker 1: you need to Basically, you would need to chew an 1007 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,120 Speaker 1: absurd number of apple seeds to pull this off. And 1008 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,120 Speaker 1: there are no reports of anyone actually doing it, either intentionally, 1009 00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, out of I don't know, madness, or or accidentally. 1010 00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,880 Speaker 1: Even Johnny apple Seed running around two and on apples 1011 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,600 Speaker 1: all day was not able to kill himself. But I 1012 00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,600 Speaker 1: think there are some other seeds in natural fruits that 1013 00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,720 Speaker 1: we eat all the time that are a little bit 1014 00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,960 Speaker 1: more dangerous than apple pits. Right, this is true? Uh, 1015 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,600 Speaker 1: And there's there's actually an excellent article that came out 1016 00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,720 Speaker 1: in the Guardian Um last year actually uh really good 1017 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:41,640 Speaker 1: and has a wonderful chart that just shows you the 1018 00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,800 Speaker 1: different levels of cyanide and these different fruits. Often include 1019 00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,000 Speaker 1: a link to it on the landing page for this 1020 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,160 Speaker 1: episode it stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. But 1021 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:55,520 Speaker 1: the basics are that apple seeds with three milligrams per gram. 1022 00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,000 Speaker 1: That places apple somewhere in the middle of our spectrum 1023 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:03,480 Speaker 1: between the point one milligram program of the common nectarine, 1024 00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,080 Speaker 1: so that's the low end up to the seventeen point 1025 00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:12,040 Speaker 1: five milligrams program in the European green gauge plum. I've 1026 00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,920 Speaker 1: never heard of that, Yeah, I had not either. It's 1027 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,760 Speaker 1: a European specialty. Uh and it's yeah, that's that's a 1028 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,880 Speaker 1: big one. Likewise, the apricot is pretty big too. The 1029 00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,440 Speaker 1: kernels of the apricot fourteen point four, and there have 1030 00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:31,000 Speaker 1: been plenty of cases of problematic ingestion of apricot kernels, 1031 00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,160 Speaker 1: typically by children, as well as a cherry pits or 1032 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:37,080 Speaker 1: another one. Cherry pits have three point nine. Now with those, 1033 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,520 Speaker 1: I think I've read that you have to do some 1034 00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,560 Speaker 1: processing to make them especially dangerous, right, Like if you 1035 00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,160 Speaker 1: chew up cherry pits, there's something they're more dangerous, that's right. 1036 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,960 Speaker 1: So remember the saliva that I mentioned earlier in the 1037 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,480 Speaker 1: apple seeds, So there's that breaking down in the separation 1038 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,920 Speaker 1: of that compound. Uh So, yeah, chewing the seeds, chewing 1039 00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,560 Speaker 1: the kernel. Also, I've i've I've heard that if you 1040 00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:01,800 Speaker 1: were to do grind up a bunch of cherry pits, 1041 01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,680 Speaker 1: you might have a similar scenario as well. I mean 1042 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 1: you would have a similar scenario. So those are those 1043 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,360 Speaker 1: are the areas where you there's more concern, and generally 1044 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:15,000 Speaker 1: that means that the concern with cherries, for example, is 1045 01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,560 Speaker 1: going to be improper food preparation, like somebody who has 1046 01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:20,600 Speaker 1: no idea what they're doing and they grind up a 1047 01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:25,120 Speaker 1: bunch of cherries for something without removing the pit. Or 1048 01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:26,800 Speaker 1: it's a case where child gets ahold of a bunch 1049 01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,200 Speaker 1: of kernels from apricots or a bunch of of cherry 1050 01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,200 Speaker 1: pits and starts chewing them. Those are situations where the 1051 01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,080 Speaker 1: condition often escalates and there is you know, some serious 1052 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,560 Speaker 1: toxicity that a doctor has to deal with. Well, I 1053 01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,680 Speaker 1: gotta invite you all over for a taste of my 1054 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:47,560 Speaker 1: fresh made pasta with home ground apricot pit pasto. But 1055 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,760 Speaker 1: he's one of these situations where, yeah, the average person 1056 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:54,640 Speaker 1: might not realize that the the average cherry with the 1057 01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,720 Speaker 1: with the pit in it does contain bits of cyanide, 1058 01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:01,480 Speaker 1: and you could you could have a lethal dose of 1059 01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:05,360 Speaker 1: cyanide in your house. It's just if you're following the rules, 1060 01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,720 Speaker 1: you're going to be throwing all that cyanide out. If 1061 01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,320 Speaker 1: you eat it the normal way, there's no danger, right, 1062 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,480 Speaker 1: But this is maybe a good reason why I remember 1063 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,200 Speaker 1: when I was a kid having there being games about 1064 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,160 Speaker 1: spitting fruit pits. Did you have games I feel like 1065 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,760 Speaker 1: spitting fruit fruit pits? Yeah, it's like you you you know, 1066 01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,240 Speaker 1: how far can you spit the watermelon seedslon seeds saying 1067 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,640 Speaker 1: they're dangerous? But maybe the same is true of cherry 1068 01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,640 Speaker 1: pits and stuff like that. Maybe this is a way 1069 01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:37,720 Speaker 1: of culturally preserving the instinct to not chew up and 1070 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:41,640 Speaker 1: swallow those those poisonous apricot pits and cherry seeds. Huh. Well, 1071 01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:43,520 Speaker 1: you know I was, I was thinking about this when 1072 01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:47,040 Speaker 1: we have first discussed this, because just last night, my son, 1073 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,959 Speaker 1: he's four and a half, he eats all the time. 1074 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,200 Speaker 1: And I was giving him some some orange slices to 1075 01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,760 Speaker 1: eat in the bathtub, because you have to there has 1076 01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:56,760 Speaker 1: to be some overlap. Otherwise he would there would be 1077 01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,480 Speaker 1: no going to bed. Uh. And he is, he's he's 1078 01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:02,520 Speaker 1: especially recently he's been very demanding about how he doesn't 1079 01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:05,120 Speaker 1: want seeds in anything. And he and I bring him 1080 01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,520 Speaker 1: the fruit and he says, oh, do you have seeds 1081 01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,200 Speaker 1: in it? I don't want the seeds. And I explain, 1082 01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,320 Speaker 1: if you you you take the seeds out, you spit 1083 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,480 Speaker 1: the seeds out. This is how fruit works, and you 1084 01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,800 Speaker 1: just have to to roll with Yeah, well not into 1085 01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:20,320 Speaker 1: the bath, you know. He asked the same thing. I 1086 01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:21,720 Speaker 1: can just spit him in the bath. No, you can't 1087 01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:23,240 Speaker 1: spit him in the bath. Just come back. And this 1088 01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:24,720 Speaker 1: is why you have a bowl with fruit in it. 1089 01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,640 Speaker 1: But but I wonder, like to what extent this is 1090 01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,720 Speaker 1: a you know, this is a natural instinct for for 1091 01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,520 Speaker 1: young children, especially to be appalled by the seed, because 1092 01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:39,720 Speaker 1: in fact, the seed of some fruits could prove dangerous 1093 01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:41,960 Speaker 1: to them, you know, in the same way that I've 1094 01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,200 Speaker 1: I've heard some there's some theories about picky eating and 1095 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,400 Speaker 1: children that are basically amounts to the same thing that 1096 01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:51,400 Speaker 1: that that picky eating and children is a natural, inborn 1097 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:55,680 Speaker 1: defense mechanism against potentially dangerous foods that are gonna be 1098 01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,480 Speaker 1: more dangerous for them given their their small body size. 1099 01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,640 Speaker 1: That's funny because I see the exact same evolutionary process 1100 01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,479 Speaker 1: working itself out in some babies and in my dog, 1101 01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,040 Speaker 1: where it seems like just anything that will fit in 1102 01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:11,160 Speaker 1: the mouth will go in there but then come back 1103 01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,200 Speaker 1: out right. Sometimes with the dogs, Oh yeah, sometimes, I 1104 01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:18,240 Speaker 1: mean I don't know, my dog wants to eat things 1105 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,520 Speaker 1: that I often think like that doesn't make biological sense 1106 01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:25,600 Speaker 1: to have a drive to try to eat that rock. Well, 1107 01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:27,840 Speaker 1: am I correct in this that with dogs like that's 1108 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:31,760 Speaker 1: part of their tasting process, like to to to judge 1109 01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,160 Speaker 1: the food it goes in the mouth first. Oh yeah, 1110 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,240 Speaker 1: I guess that kind of makes sense. Yeah, I could 1111 01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,600 Speaker 1: be wrong and that I'm not a dog expert, but 1112 01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:41,080 Speaker 1: but at any rate, that also the the you know, 1113 01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,919 Speaker 1: the the the whole incident here with with seeds also 1114 01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:47,000 Speaker 1: comes up, I understand with some pats. I didn't really 1115 01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:50,080 Speaker 1: explore that thread, but I was seeing a number of 1116 01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,840 Speaker 1: different posts and articles out there about oh, do I 1117 01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,160 Speaker 1: need to be concerned about my dog eating these pits? Well, 1118 01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:59,480 Speaker 1: there's certainly lots of foods that are probably not dangerous 1119 01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:01,840 Speaker 1: to you, but might be dangerous to a pet for 1120 01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,120 Speaker 1: a couple of reasons, for different body chemistry, but also 1121 01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,960 Speaker 1: just because of different body size. A serving that is 1122 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:12,360 Speaker 1: contains nothing all that, you know, nothing in concentration dangerous 1123 01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,560 Speaker 1: to you, might be a big dose for a small animal, right, Yeah, 1124 01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,560 Speaker 1: especially a small dog, small cat, etcetera. All right, you know, 1125 01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:21,760 Speaker 1: on on a final note here, you know, so many 1126 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:23,920 Speaker 1: of the things we've been talking about, we've been talking about, 1127 01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:28,560 Speaker 1: like the dosage level, the quantities. Uh, keep in mind 1128 01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:32,439 Speaker 1: the spice rack. Okay. Uh. We actually have an older 1129 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:34,880 Speaker 1: episode of Stuff to blow your mind that is all 1130 01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,480 Speaker 1: about nutmeg. Nutmeg, and I encourage you to check that 1131 01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,560 Speaker 1: episode out because nutmeg is fascinating. It has this weird, 1132 01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:46,480 Speaker 1: wonderful history full of like Eastern medicine, um, European fashion, um, 1133 01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:53,080 Speaker 1: medieval medieval manipulation of the humors. Also like bloody colonial monopolies. 1134 01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:58,120 Speaker 1: It's I've definitely read about its use as a recreational drug. Yeah. 1135 01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:02,360 Speaker 1: There a Malcolm X wrote about it's it's use in prisons, 1136 01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,560 Speaker 1: you would take a match box full of nutmeg and 1137 01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:08,800 Speaker 1: you would have, you know, an altered state. Uh. There 1138 01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,200 Speaker 1: are various other accounts from from history. Samuel Samuel Peeps 1139 01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:15,600 Speaker 1: wrote about an individual who who took nutmeg and ran 1140 01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:20,960 Speaker 1: naked through the streets of London. Samuel Peeps. Yeah, yeah, 1141 01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,320 Speaker 1: so so there's a lot. There's a rich history with nutmeg. 1142 01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, nutmeg is an example of something where if 1143 01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,880 Speaker 1: you you uh, use just a few sprinkles here and 1144 01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,760 Speaker 1: there on top of your egg nog or whatever, and 1145 01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:34,600 Speaker 1: it's it's perfectly fine. I put a little on my 1146 01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:38,560 Speaker 1: smoothie every morning, um. But if you take larger quantities 1147 01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:42,600 Speaker 1: there can be toxic effects sic trans yes, spice trands 1148 01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:46,919 Speaker 1: essentially except a very unpleasant spice trans uh with lots 1149 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,520 Speaker 1: of nausea and like a really horrible hangover. I've read 1150 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:55,400 Speaker 1: no accounts of recreational nutmeg use beyond sprinkles for flavoring 1151 01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,720 Speaker 1: that end. Well, it's all grotesque, and nobody tries at 1152 01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,400 Speaker 1: a secon in time, uh for the most part, unless 1153 01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,680 Speaker 1: they have no other option. There are just extremely bored. 1154 01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,200 Speaker 1: But but it serves as a I think a fine 1155 01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,040 Speaker 1: lesson because if you look at your spice rack in 1156 01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,080 Speaker 1: your house, you were looking at a number of different 1157 01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:17,840 Speaker 1: substances that are in many cases toxins. There. They they 1158 01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:22,040 Speaker 1: evolved in the original plants that they came from as 1159 01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,200 Speaker 1: a deterrent to keep people from eating them, or to 1160 01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:28,080 Speaker 1: keep people from eating them beyond you know, certain portions. Yeah, 1161 01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,600 Speaker 1: in many cases, the pungency and flavor that we prize 1162 01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,520 Speaker 1: them for, when applied to a very small amount in 1163 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:38,920 Speaker 1: our food, is by itself disgusting. This is it's by 1164 01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,000 Speaker 1: design disgusting. It's supposed to be that way as a 1165 01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:46,600 Speaker 1: defense mechanism. Yeah, food technologies essentially are mastery of all 1166 01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,360 Speaker 1: of these elements. We figured out how to manipulate them, 1167 01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,880 Speaker 1: how to change them, often with fire, and then and 1168 01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:57,480 Speaker 1: then utilize even these these these potent poisons in very 1169 01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:02,000 Speaker 1: small quantities that to changes the flavor. So, yeah, anything 1170 01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,920 Speaker 1: in your spice rack, if you took it in sufficient quantities, 1171 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:09,120 Speaker 1: you in many cases could have an altered experience, probably 1172 01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,840 Speaker 1: not a good altered experience, but an altered one and 1173 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:16,480 Speaker 1: or experienced the toxic effects. So it's just you know, 1174 01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,520 Speaker 1: worth keeping in mind. I think nutmeg is a great 1175 01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,800 Speaker 1: example of that, and I love nutmeg and uh uh, 1176 01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:25,080 Speaker 1: and yet I would I would definitely not advise eating 1177 01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:28,000 Speaker 1: a matchbox full of it. Okay, So main takeaways from 1178 01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,800 Speaker 1: this episode don't eat the green potatoes the dose makes 1179 01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,480 Speaker 1: the poison. Don't grind up cherry wrapper coop pits and 1180 01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:40,320 Speaker 1: make a pesto out of them. Don't freak out over 1181 01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,000 Speaker 1: the dead man's fingers though you know, take them out, 1182 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:47,120 Speaker 1: uh for flavor purposes. Don't eat four cups of nutmeg. 1183 01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,600 Speaker 1: I mean basically the take home is, don't take your 1184 01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:55,720 Speaker 1: food for granted, Like, no, have some basic idea of 1185 01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:59,120 Speaker 1: where food comes from, the processes that that lead it 1186 01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,959 Speaker 1: to your plate, uh, the organisms from that they stem from. 1187 01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,400 Speaker 1: Like if you have, the more you know about about 1188 01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,600 Speaker 1: what your food actually is, the less shocking any of 1189 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,800 Speaker 1: these dangers are, and also the better prepared you are 1190 01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,320 Speaker 1: for these for for the often you know, small chances 1191 01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:17,439 Speaker 1: that you might encounter these problems. I think that's a 1192 01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:20,639 Speaker 1: really good point. Maybe that's the main takeaway from this episode. 1193 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:24,120 Speaker 1: When you think about your food, think about organisms. Don't 1194 01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:26,919 Speaker 1: think about it as a product that came from a factory, 1195 01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:28,920 Speaker 1: though in many cases it probably was. Probably you know, 1196 01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,200 Speaker 1: if it's a package product probably was processed in a 1197 01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:35,000 Speaker 1: factory somewhere, but it is an organism or derived from 1198 01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,200 Speaker 1: an organism. Think about the organism it came from, the plant, 1199 01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,479 Speaker 1: the animal, whatever it is. Think about its place in nature, 1200 01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:44,040 Speaker 1: all the things that fed it and grew its bones, 1201 01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:46,759 Speaker 1: as it in turn feeds you and grows your bones 1202 01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,479 Speaker 1: and hopefully doesn't poison you. And I think that's a 1203 01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,960 Speaker 1: perfect message for the holiday. So on that note, if 1204 01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,040 Speaker 1: you would like to certainly check out any of the 1205 01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:58,840 Speaker 1: links we mentioned here, that older episode on Nutmeg, last 1206 01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:02,360 Speaker 1: year's episode onundangerous foods, etcetera. You can check all of 1207 01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:04,760 Speaker 1: that out It's stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 1208 01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:07,920 Speaker 1: You also find blog posts, you will find videos. You 1209 01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,800 Speaker 1: will find links out to various social media accounts as well, 1210 01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,040 Speaker 1: And if you want to get in touch with us directly, 1211 01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,559 Speaker 1: as always, you can email us at blow the Mind 1212 01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:28,560 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com for more on this 1213 01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,240 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works 1214 01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:54,439 Speaker 1: dot com