Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, you're welcome to stuff to Blow
Speaker 1: your mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie,
Speaker 1: are you a hugger? Do you hug? Are you one
Speaker 1: of these? Are you a head machine? Are you the
Speaker 1: type of person who walks into the room and it's
Speaker 1: hugs all around, or are you then have a person
Speaker 1: when a huger walks into the room, you retreat to
Speaker 1: the corner. I'm really more of a groper. I'm kidding,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not a gropper. Um. I'm definitely someone who
Speaker 1: if it looks like someone wants to hug or initiating
Speaker 1: a hug, then I'm all for the hug. But I
Speaker 1: usually kind of check out someone's body language because there's
Speaker 1: nothing worse than going in for a hug and you
Speaker 1: get the awkward you knowess of the I don't know,
Speaker 1: you get an elbow in your face or something along
Speaker 1: those lines. What about you, Well, I am I am
Speaker 1: an awkward hugger. I've sort of have to come. I've come.
Speaker 1: I improved over the years, but I have to come
Speaker 1: to realize that I am an awkward person when it
Speaker 1: comes to the social dynamics of hugging. So in what
Speaker 1: way are you, Well, I grew uh, I kind of
Speaker 1: grew up in a well, I mean my my my
Speaker 1: household was not like a super huggy kind of environment,
Speaker 1: and my mom has and still has this, uh, this
Speaker 1: hug variant that's uh that we referred to as the
Speaker 1: side hug, where instead of it being like a full
Speaker 1: on front hug, it's like she'll come up and kind
Speaker 1: of like put an arm around like she's posing for
Speaker 1: a photo with you. And I ended up inheriting this, uh,
Speaker 1: this side hug, and I'll still catch myself doing it
Speaker 1: or or I've I've kind of evolved where I have
Speaker 1: like a a hybrid that is half side hug, half
Speaker 1: front hug. Um all awkwardness though, um, especially if I'm
Speaker 1: around somebody's really into hugging. Um, well, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what is worse, Like a side hug, you know,
Speaker 1: or someone who's just like sort of merry glands crushing you. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll see see that that also that that dives down
Speaker 1: to another issue here with hugging. It won't because I mean,
Speaker 1: like even as when I was younger. Like a hug,
Speaker 1: especially you're hugging a lady, it's I mean, yeah, well
Speaker 1: they have they have bosoms, right, and then and you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to hug into those and like that's kind
Speaker 1: of weird. H It's true, it's going to be so.
Speaker 1: So there's that. And then here's another thing that is
Speaker 1: that has actually come up recently. Um, I was we
Speaker 1: had some some friends over right and they'd come over
Speaker 1: for dinner and we we had a little wine, and
Speaker 1: then it was it was time for everybody to say
Speaker 1: there goodbyes. So we went to hug goodbye, and I
Speaker 1: went to hug my my friend kipt goodbye. And there's
Speaker 1: that weird like there's this weird moment of like, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hug this person. I was going for a
Speaker 1: front hug, come on, like you know, because I'm trying
Speaker 1: to put yeah, I'm trying to put my side hug
Speaker 1: experiences behind me. And then there's this last minute confusion
Speaker 1: that was probably intensified a little bye by the wine
Speaker 1: in my system. Um, and which way our head's gonna go,
Speaker 1: because you know, a head has to go this way,
Speaker 1: another head has ago this way, and uh, and then
Speaker 1: the hug is fully locked. Um, but I I kind
Speaker 1: of like went to go one direction and then I
Speaker 1: I panicked and went the other direction. And then afterward,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, my goodness, she probably thinks I made
Speaker 1: a pass at her. She thinks I went in, probably
Speaker 1: think thinks I went in for a kiss on on
Speaker 1: what was already a pretty awkward hug. And so I
Speaker 1: was like, I was paranoid about it for days. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: she probably thinks I'm horrible. Um, you males in in
Speaker 1: your hugging anxiety, hugging each other or hugging ladies, and
Speaker 1: they're there. Well, I'm glad you brought it up, because
Speaker 1: the the male hug, the male on male hug um
Speaker 1: is another very interesting topic of discussion, and I've I've
Speaker 1: seen it. I've seen it referred to in various uh uh,
Speaker 1: there's various terminology for the sort of masculine hug. After
Speaker 1: It's been called a pound shake, a one armed hug,
Speaker 1: a dude hug, a homie hug, a shug, a hetero hug,
Speaker 1: a bro grab, a bro hug, a thug hug, a
Speaker 1: man hug, a hip hop hug. So why do you
Speaker 1: even have to determine that, you know in the first place.
Speaker 1: That's kind of cracks me out. Well, um, I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of it. I mean it's with with hugging
Speaker 1: in general, but especially with male hugging, Like it's gonna
Speaker 1: vary depending on culture. Um. I just think it's funny.
Speaker 1: It's like women don't run around going X to the
Speaker 1: fourth hug. Yeah, I mean, like, well, if you go
Speaker 1: back in time and like man and man kisses is
Speaker 1: like that not that big of a deal. Say, you
Speaker 1: know Roman times, uh, early Christian Church. Then it goes
Speaker 1: away in the Victorian era. You go you go to
Speaker 1: places in countries like France, you go to uh, you
Speaker 1: got to Russia, and there's more of a tradition of
Speaker 1: of men, you know, given a peck on the cheek.
Speaker 1: It's you know, it's not it's a sign of affection
Speaker 1: and it does. It's not that's there's not a sexual
Speaker 1: connotation to it. Well and certainly in Europe it is. Um.
Speaker 1: It is much more intimate to give someone a hug
Speaker 1: than a kiss on the cheek on the cheek, right,
Speaker 1: And maybe some of that is because you're getting into
Speaker 1: someone's space. Um, but that's what we're talking about today,
Speaker 1: we're talking about hugs, how important they are, and we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the actual science behind hugs. But
Speaker 1: I have more on male hugs to talk about. Uh.
Speaker 1: I mean the traditional male hug for those I haven't
Speaker 1: seen it. You you sort of bring in the other
Speaker 1: person in arms wrapped around, kind of like you're you're
Speaker 1: going in for like a pro wrestling bear hug. And
Speaker 1: in fact, some people like if one person is one
Speaker 1: male is bigger than the other, sometimes they will or
Speaker 1: or or as smaller but has a bigger uh you know,
Speaker 1: ego about them, they'll actually go for the pick up,
Speaker 1: they'll do the they'll do the bear hug lift because
Speaker 1: nothing is more more masculine. Uh and and says, this
Speaker 1: is not a lovey dovey hug. Let's say nothing that
Speaker 1: any sort of a possible souplex. Yeah, um, but but yeah,
Speaker 1: you go in generally only the shoulders will be touching,
Speaker 1: uh or, that will be the main point of contact.
Speaker 1: And then you might even throw in and then when
Speaker 1: you squeeze, you'll throw in kind of a kind of
Speaker 1: a kind of a move because again it's kind of
Speaker 1: like we're we're just men, you know, wrestling man, we
Speaker 1: should if only we could butt heads, but we have
Speaker 1: to do this stupid hug. And then of course the
Speaker 1: back either slap on the back or pounds to the
Speaker 1: bat because the pound like a fist is even more masculine.
Speaker 1: Then slap to the back, and you do generally do
Speaker 1: like three of those, um and and you may or
Speaker 1: may not, like I say, throw in an attempted bear hug.
Speaker 1: Besides heteronorms, there's actually a reason why you guys may
Speaker 1: have this weird awkwardness in embracing each other. And we'll
Speaker 1: talk about that in a little bit. You might actually
Speaker 1: be hardwired not to be so much full on body huggers.
Speaker 1: But have you got any other male on male hugging stories.
Speaker 1: Just I should point out that the bear hug is
Speaker 1: a pro pro wrestling move where one individual comes into
Speaker 1: the front and wraps their arms around the person like
Speaker 1: a big hug and squeezes them. And then there's also
Speaker 1: a rear bear hug or a reverse bear hug where
Speaker 1: the person comes up behind them and and squeezes them,
Speaker 1: and and it's supposed to be like a method of
Speaker 1: torture in the like in a pro wrestling kind of environment.
Speaker 1: But it is it essentially? It is essentially a hug.
Speaker 1: So you and I don't hug, but I'm gonna say this,
Speaker 1: like you did you give me a little punch in
Speaker 1: the shoulder once. Well, that's that's my version of a hug. Um.
Speaker 1: But for non huggers. But if you ever do, like
Speaker 1: I feel like giving me a hug, please don't break
Speaker 1: my phones or you know, toss me through the air. Well,
Speaker 1: that's another thing. I have got myself giving the bro hug,
Speaker 1: slap or pound, like even when I'm like hugging a
Speaker 1: female occasionally, you know, it's like in a moment of panic,
Speaker 1: I'll have that in for for no reason. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm I'm I'm very scared that you're gonna pull
Speaker 1: a wrestling move on Someone's gonna be a hospital visit. Um,
Speaker 1: here's an interesting stat The average hug last three seconds.
Speaker 1: And this has been called the timing of the human spirit.
Speaker 1: Just really yeah, nice and poetic, but there is an
Speaker 1: ideal length of a hug, and it's actually twenty seconds.
Speaker 1: Really is that? How long is the character in Dirty
Speaker 1: Rock that said it's not a hug if it doesn't
Speaker 1: last Oh, okay, that this is the uh he is
Speaker 1: the like the CEO of Cable Town, which has bought NBC, right,
Speaker 1: and he's all about the hugs and family values and
Speaker 1: he wants um Walwin's character Jack Geegy to just start hugging.
Speaker 1: And Jack can't because he's not hardwired. He's a shark.
Speaker 1: He doesn't know how to do that. He says, ten seconds. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he was that. He's actually has a pretty uh
Speaker 1: um conservative hug there. Yeah, really he should be doubling that.
Speaker 1: But he's hugging all day long, so he may for
Speaker 1: forgetting um this sort of that you would want to
Speaker 1: get out of a hug and what is that? But
Speaker 1: why might we start hugging oxytocin? Yeah, so twenty seconds
Speaker 1: hugging someone makes oxytocin start flowing from your body. And
Speaker 1: we produce oxytosin every day and our blood and our
Speaker 1: brain um in various amounts. And it's not just hugging, dancing,
Speaker 1: having sex orgasms, U, petting your dogs and the babies.
Speaker 1: It's like a huge row in the in the mother
Speaker 1: child relationship. Yeah, most people think about it in terms
Speaker 1: of breastfeeding or giving birth. Even two helps with the
Speaker 1: 'aring contractions. So oxytesin is known as the bonding hormone,
Speaker 1: and it allows you to establish a deep connection with
Speaker 1: other people. I've also seen it called the moral molecule.
Speaker 1: The moral molecules not only in mammals, which also occasionally
Speaker 1: tear each other limb from limbs, so right, right, so
Speaker 1: that we don't tear each other from limb to limb
Speaker 1: all the time. This, this wonderful moral molecule is in
Speaker 1: us waiting to spring upon others and and hug, hug
Speaker 1: it out. Really, I've also just real quick for not
Speaker 1: not hugging people. Have a friend Liz, and I remember
Speaker 1: her saying, and she may have picked I don't know
Speaker 1: if she picked this up somewhere else or if this
Speaker 1: is wisdom that emerge from within lives. But she said,
Speaker 1: the day a hug is just a strangle that you
Speaker 1: haven't finished yet. So well, you know what, there are
Speaker 1: some people who use hugs therapeutically. So if you have
Speaker 1: someone who is really really upset, uh, you know, they
Speaker 1: actually seemed as though they are beyond um consoling if
Speaker 1: you if you were to hug them and restrict aim
Speaker 1: them and like full body hug for twenty seconds or
Speaker 1: more that person actually will calm down. That is how
Speaker 1: effective this oxytocin releases via a hug. Oh man, See,
Speaker 1: now this totally turns the bear hug in protestling on
Speaker 1: its head, Like what if? What if it's effectiveness in
Speaker 1: this fictional fighting environment we're not based on I will
Speaker 1: squeeze you until you cannot take it anymore, when you
Speaker 1: pass out. But what if it was I will squeeze
Speaker 1: you until into loving submission, until until loving submission, until
Speaker 1: you realize that we're fighting over nothing and that we're
Speaker 1: really brothers. Okay, I mean, why don't world leaders do
Speaker 1: this right exactly? Mandatory thirty second hugs between all heads
Speaker 1: of state. Well, and there are actually hug workshops, and
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in a little while, um, and
Speaker 1: why they're fascinating and also sort of uh terrible at
Speaker 1: the same time. But let's talk a little bit more
Speaker 1: about the oxytocin because it's so interesting in the way
Speaker 1: that it operates in our morality, our ability to trust others.
Speaker 1: So the big question in understanding anything we do is,
Speaker 1: of course, from an evolutionary standpoint, how does it fit in?
Speaker 1: How does it make sense? Why would nature select for
Speaker 1: hugging well neuroeconomic guru Paul Zach who actually calls himself
Speaker 1: the love doctor. He has a lot of people call
Speaker 1: themselves a love doctor. It doesn't mean they actually have credentials, No,
Speaker 1: it's true, but he actually studies this right, so I
Speaker 1: think that you know, out of everybody, he could probably
Speaker 1: call himself a love doctor and and really means um.
Speaker 1: He has a great talk on ted dot com called trust, morality,
Speaker 1: and oxytocin, and he says that this is the hormone
Speaker 1: that allows us to feel a sense of trust, and
Speaker 1: from an evolutionary science perspective, it's necessary for the propagation
Speaker 1: of a species. Okay, and you know there's some people
Speaker 1: who have more oxytocin than others, and actually those people
Speaker 1: they have found in studies appear more trustworthy. Isn't this
Speaker 1: fascinating The people who produce lesser marked No, No, people
Speaker 1: who produce more oxetosin just on a regular basis. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, if we're in a party, let's a and
Speaker 1: you meet someone, you're gonna know within twenty seconds whether
Speaker 1: or not this person is feeling trustworthy to you or
Speaker 1: probably does feel trustworthy to you, because they're usually pretty
Speaker 1: social and uh, they're a little bit more engaged with you, right,
Speaker 1: and you have to feel like, oh, I could trust
Speaker 1: this person, right, they seem they seem like a good egg. Right.
Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody has come away of meeting someone and saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, that person is like really down on earth
Speaker 1: or so on and so forth. That could be their
Speaker 1: oxytocin talking. Zach and his researchers conducted a series of
Speaker 1: studies involving test subjects watching a film about a boy
Speaker 1: who has a brain tumor okay, And the reason why
Speaker 1: they did that is they wanted to juice up the
Speaker 1: empathy response okay um, which is obviously related to oxytocin.
Speaker 1: And then he had subjects play an ultimatum game. The
Speaker 1: general idea is that a first person is given a
Speaker 1: certain amount of money and told to send some portion
Speaker 1: of it to a second person, and they're separated by
Speaker 1: computers and nobody knows the identity of one another. The
Speaker 1: second person must then decide whether to accept or reject
Speaker 1: the first person's offer. So, for example, let's imagine that
Speaker 1: player one proposes divide ten dollars by offering three dollars
Speaker 1: to player too. If player who accepts the three bucks,
Speaker 1: they both get to keep their share of the money.
Speaker 1: If she rejects the offer, neither gets anything. And Zack's
Speaker 1: general findings were that the more money test subjects received,
Speaker 1: the higher their oxytocin levels, and the higher their oxytocin levels,
Speaker 1: the more they reciprocated. So what you're seeing is an
Speaker 1: economy of trust right here. And that's why it's really
Speaker 1: interesting to him as a neuroeconomist to see how this
Speaker 1: is operating, um just at a dollar and cents level. Now,
Speaker 1: they're also what five of the population who barely produce
Speaker 1: any of this oxytocin at all. Yeah, they're not trusting anyone.
Speaker 1: They're not gonna get anything out of that hug. Well,
Speaker 1: Zach Paul Zack sort of have to clingly refer to
Speaker 1: them as the sociopaths and the psychopath when in that
Speaker 1: case so that they may be they may actually response
Speaker 1: seemed to respond well to the hug. They might have
Speaker 1: to have figured it out, figured out how to fake
Speaker 1: it right, right right, But they're probably not gonna be
Speaker 1: full of a lot of empathy. Um, they're not maybe
Speaker 1: going to be so much into trusting one another or um,
Speaker 1: really invested in trusting at all, and they're not really
Speaker 1: probably going to be concerned with your welfare. So but
Speaker 1: this is the small amount of the population, right five um,
Speaker 1: And there's another factor here that dilutes oxytocin's production testosterone.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah yeah, which maybe why men have such
Speaker 1: a hard time sharing, right or hugging. Um. But this
Speaker 1: is the good news for for all you x wires.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can you can hug all day long
Speaker 1: and produce much more oxytocin, so sort of vanquish the
Speaker 1: effects of your testosterone, which by the way, is ten
Speaker 1: times higher in men than women. It also makes me
Speaker 1: makes me think of like sporting events where which general
Speaker 1: like another weird thing about like like men and their
Speaker 1: their their their physical distance from each other. You know,
Speaker 1: you'll see a sports and situation where it's like if
Speaker 1: if you just scored a goal, uh, then like hugging
Speaker 1: is totally okay. Like pretty much anything short of like
Speaker 1: just making out on the field, it's all right because
Speaker 1: it's just like like, scored a goal, come in here
Speaker 1: for a hug, you know kind of thing. It's it's
Speaker 1: like totally seen that sort of leg humping thing too. Going,
Speaker 1: So I wonder if that itt us like the testosterone
Speaker 1: is so high that I don't know. Well, there's also
Speaker 1: a bonding moment. It's a bonding moment and and U
Speaker 1: it's a social context that allows Yeah, it's like weird contact.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the it's like it's like the
Speaker 1: slap on the bat. So it's like this is a
Speaker 1: very masculine thing we're doing. Um. And but and if
Speaker 1: you just scored a goal on a professional sports team,
Speaker 1: it's like, that's that's the that's all the slap on
Speaker 1: the back you need. That's like, yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: think that's important to just to note that, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of science behind this in the way that
Speaker 1: we behave, but there's also a social contract that we
Speaker 1: all have signed on some level, so some of the
Speaker 1: is dictating our behavior. Um. But you know, in talking
Speaker 1: about gender, it is interesting to note that women actually
Speaker 1: benefit a lot more from hugs than men do. And
Speaker 1: this is from a University of North Carolina study. Researchers
Speaker 1: found that women recorded greater reductions in blood pressure than
Speaker 1: men after hugs with their patients their partners. They both
Speaker 1: had blood pressure reductions, but women much more so, and
Speaker 1: they had lower levels of the stress hormone cortisol, which again,
Speaker 1: this is another great benefit of hugging. Not only do
Speaker 1: you have oxytocin flowing, but oxytocin is going to inhibit cortisol,
Speaker 1: and cortisol is something that can make us crazy, right,
Speaker 1: get really stressed out, we can't sleep well, so on
Speaker 1: and so forth. And this they think is really helpful
Speaker 1: in um promoting good cardiac health and women. I feel
Speaker 1: like a like a lot of this also eliminates like
Speaker 1: if if you're in a situation where a hug is
Speaker 1: going to happen, like it's good to remind yourself. But
Speaker 1: even though, um like, even though you might not be
Speaker 1: getting much out of this hug, and this hug might
Speaker 1: be an awkward situation for you, it's like this other
Speaker 1: person is going to get like an oxytocin rush, Like,
Speaker 1: do not deny them. There, they're they're a drug there, right, Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And actually there's there's a point that we'll talk about
Speaker 1: that about whether or not you're hard wired, um to
Speaker 1: to be a hugger. Um. But we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about chimps, and we will talk about co work.
Speaker 1: Shots bright after this break. All right, we're back. So hugging,
Speaker 1: um humane hug by the way, Oh you're welcome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was a split second, but still it
Speaker 1: was a hug. Yeah. And there were two microphones between us,
Speaker 1: but you know it still counts. Yeah. Do other animals hug? Yes? Yeah? Great?
Speaker 1: Eight chimpanzees, um, actually hug. There is a researcher by
Speaker 1: the name of Felippo o Really of Liverpool, John John
Speaker 1: Moores University in the UK, and he and his colleagues
Speaker 1: observe two adult chimps in nearby Chester Zoo for twenty
Speaker 1: one months and what they what he found is that
Speaker 1: following a fight between two individual chimps, the chimp on
Speaker 1: the receiving end of the aggression tends to been more
Speaker 1: time scratching and grooming itself. And these are activities that
Speaker 1: indicate a lot of stress, right, they're trying to work
Speaker 1: it out. Um, the self attention this, you know, grooming
Speaker 1: of themselves drops by nearly half if another chimp offers
Speaker 1: a hand. How we do that and embrace or other
Speaker 1: friendly contact within a minute after the conflict. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: Well I've you know, I've seen pictures of chimps hugging.
Speaker 1: But I always thought either they were doing it, a
Speaker 1: they were just doing it for the calendars, or be
Speaker 1: it was the moment before the teeth sank it, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, right, just trying to trick your opponent there. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's there's also a famous video of two
Speaker 1: chimps emerging from cages like after thirty years and and
Speaker 1: seeing sun light for the first time, and it's really
Speaker 1: it's actually a very moving video hugging each other and celebrating.
Speaker 1: So we know that they're very social animals. We know
Speaker 1: that we share done a percent of their DNA, so
Speaker 1: it's not a huge surprise that they would do this
Speaker 1: as well. So is it is it hardwired into us
Speaker 1: the need to hug or is it just I mean,
Speaker 1: how much how much of it is ultimately in our
Speaker 1: genes and how much of it is it it's just, Oh,
Speaker 1: I was born into a society or a family where
Speaker 1: I'm in a situation where hugging is the norm. Well
Speaker 1: that that's interesting because the chimp study they definitely said
Speaker 1: that it helps to support the hypothesis that um constellation
Speaker 1: embracing reduces stress, which we know really rereaks havoc our
Speaker 1: immune systems. Right, So there's this idea that it could
Speaker 1: help to bolster our health. Um. And you know, to
Speaker 1: what extent is it hardwired? In the past we'd say, well,
Speaker 1: that's that's hard to say, you know, it's it's probably
Speaker 1: just all behavioral and nothing else. Um. But empathy in
Speaker 1: the form of oxytocin receptors appears to be hardwired genetically.
Speaker 1: So you could be doubly endowed with oxytocin receptor genes UM,
Speaker 1: and your social behavior would move a lot more towards
Speaker 1: empathy and positive emotions, which we could make you a hugger. Right.
Speaker 1: Shelly Taylor, she's the u c L. U c L,
Speaker 1: a psychologist identified the tend and befriend response, says that
Speaker 1: the gene produces the oxytucin receptor is responsible for influencing
Speaker 1: self esteem, optimism, in a sense of mastery and at
Speaker 1: a particular location. The receptor gene has two versions, an
Speaker 1: A variant and a G variant, And if you have
Speaker 1: a variant, you have an increased sensitivity to stress. By
Speaker 1: the way, you have poor social skills and worse mental
Speaker 1: health outcomes. But if you have that g that obviously
Speaker 1: helps to negate some of that um. That G receptor
Speaker 1: is actually gonna help in terms of your self esteem
Speaker 1: and mastery. Some people have two G variants, and that
Speaker 1: is what makes them doubly oxytocin friendly. So they are
Speaker 1: super huggers. They are they are hug junkies, they are
Speaker 1: hug machines, right, well, I mean, well that's that's the
Speaker 1: conclusion you could draw from that. Those are the people
Speaker 1: who are getting the biggest bang for their buck when
Speaker 1: they get a hug, right, like their oxytuition's flowing. So
Speaker 1: those might be the people, uh, the you know, the
Speaker 1: cable town executives of the world who are giving you
Speaker 1: the big bear hugs that linger forever and you know
Speaker 1: it's just an awkward void of hugging. Well, I can
Speaker 1: also imagine just like like there's like on a purely
Speaker 1: physical level, like the hug is kind of like like
Speaker 1: oh you you can see there's a company then where
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you're feeling kind of down, let me
Speaker 1: protect you with my body. You know, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a there's a sense of that to the activity as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know there are some people who hypothesize that
Speaker 1: The reason that we have a three second hug that
Speaker 1: that's sort of the norm, is that, you know, back
Speaker 1: in the day, you wouldn't want to linger for more
Speaker 1: than three seconds because if you were engaged in a
Speaker 1: hug at saber tooth tiger would come out of the
Speaker 1: while and tear you down shreds Now, does that seem
Speaker 1: like it's you know, that evolutionary science probably gone a
Speaker 1: little bit um heywire, maybe with that theory. Maybe maybe not.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I've never the cat is never well,
Speaker 1: the cat does get kind of irritated. If my wife
Speaker 1: and I are hugging for too long, she could become like, hey,
Speaker 1: what's up. That's just because she's shows. She's like, hey,
Speaker 1: get that oxytope flowing over here? Yet, Well, then I
Speaker 1: try to hug the cat and she hates it so well,
Speaker 1: little cats generally don't like to be trapped and hugged,
Speaker 1: and I mean she likes to send them my shoulders.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's good. And we already know to just
Speaker 1: from our podcast on Dogs Dog Really Love You, that
Speaker 1: your dog is actually releasing oxytocin when you pet your
Speaker 1: dog and just looking at your at a dog can
Speaker 1: can can create oxytocin. That's why we love those buggers
Speaker 1: so much. Right, Um, here's a question for you. Would
Speaker 1: you ever attend a cuddle workshop? Oh? Yes, they had these,
Speaker 1: even that you're trying to improve, I've I've found these interesting.
Speaker 1: Um probably, I mean yeah, sure, I mean I could
Speaker 1: probably use it more than a lot of people. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: you know any kind of like I feel like to
Speaker 1: you know, to a certain extent. Like sometimes in you know,
Speaker 1: the class we're we're asked to do things with a partner,
Speaker 1: and generally my wife is there, so she's my yoka
Speaker 1: partner in those situations. But never been a time or
Speaker 1: two where I've had to like help like another yoga
Speaker 1: we're taking terms with another yoga partner where it's like
Speaker 1: I'm helping somebody else do a headstand and then they're
Speaker 1: helping me to a headstand or doing some sort of
Speaker 1: a you know, do you start hugging them during their
Speaker 1: heads No? No, I don't start hugging them because that
Speaker 1: would be weird. But but but no, but just like it,
Speaker 1: being forced to um into a situation where you're physically
Speaker 1: closer to a stranger, like like it it's like the
Speaker 1: trust sort of begins to well up a little bit
Speaker 1: in certain barriers, um sort of breakdown you know. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I would. If there were a hug class and I
Speaker 1: have the time to take it, I would. I would
Speaker 1: give it a shot. Sure. Well. Also, what if you
Speaker 1: were doubly endowed with that G variant, right, and you
Speaker 1: were just hug starved, maybe you would go to a workshop, right?
Speaker 1: And why not? It would be like going to a
Speaker 1: place with your hook up where it's just like as
Speaker 1: many hugs as you can take. It would be literally
Speaker 1: a love festum. British Heart Foundation researchers have demonstrated links
Speaker 1: between a positive emotional state like happiness and low levels
Speaker 1: of cortisol in that stress forrmone. So, um, it's somewhat
Speaker 1: of a surprise to me that these workshops have sprung
Speaker 1: up in London because I don't normally think of, um,
Speaker 1: you know the British is being a bunch of huggers.
Speaker 1: Well no they're they're not. And I think that's why
Speaker 1: that's why they have this is because they realized, like
Speaker 1: because I was, I was mentioning um, like even in
Speaker 1: British society, society like the Victorian era, like that was
Speaker 1: like a big period of you will hug nothing except
Speaker 1: in the maybe in the privacy of your own home. Um,
Speaker 1: like some some of the materials I was I was reading. Uh,
Speaker 1: there was a really cool article about hugging, male hugging
Speaker 1: and male affection male kissing in a two thousand and
Speaker 1: sixth article in The Scotsman, and its stemmed from an
Speaker 1: instant where a queen and in Prince Philip. The Queen
Speaker 1: and Prince Philip greeted Charles and Camilla at the opening
Speaker 1: of the Welsh Assembly ended up the ladies. They kind
Speaker 1: of bumped hats and the Duke of Edinburgh gave his
Speaker 1: son a firm kiss on both cheeks, and everyone was
Speaker 1: kind of like, whoa there. You know, it's because these
Speaker 1: are supposed to be supposed to be then the stiffest
Speaker 1: of the stiff upper lips here, and they're they're engaging
Speaker 1: in a little visible public acts of like male male affection. Yeah, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's a it's a tricky road. So
Speaker 1: I think they've woke up, like like hopefully maybe some
Speaker 1: of our English or Londoner listeners will pipe in on this,
Speaker 1: but I think there's been you know, they've woken up
Speaker 1: and they'd be like, hey, we've we've been kind of
Speaker 1: been uptight for a little bit. Let's we have a
Speaker 1: we're open to a wider world, We're open to all
Speaker 1: these different cultural influences, and maybe we need to lighten
Speaker 1: up a little bit and uh and actually literally embrace
Speaker 1: each other. Now, there was that faux paw and an outcry.
Speaker 1: Actually when Michelle Obama put her arm around the Queen's
Speaker 1: waist and a sort of half embrace, you were like,
Speaker 1: you don't touch the queen. Yeah, Well, see that's interesting
Speaker 1: because that that's another thing that varies, like physical touches
Speaker 1: varies varies so much like I believe, um, when I
Speaker 1: was in Thailand, I remember reading in the guide book
Speaker 1: they said that like it's totally like for for like
Speaker 1: an like an older dude to put like his hand
Speaker 1: on the side, like touch the side of like a
Speaker 1: youth or boy, like that's like the total like normal thing,
Speaker 1: whereas of course touching somebody on the head, that's that's insulting. Well,
Speaker 1: and I do understand where the cuddle workshops would would
Speaker 1: um have a place. And the only thing is, and
Speaker 1: I've only seen one clip, so mind you this is
Speaker 1: um a very narrow perspective that I have of it
Speaker 1: so far. But the Cuddle workshop that I saw that
Speaker 1: was conducted in London, it was a three hour event
Speaker 1: which culminated in what it looked to me like a
Speaker 1: human pile of worms, all sort of linked together, stroking
Speaker 1: each other's arms and hugging. I mean, you might want
Speaker 1: to call it a hug orgy. I mean fully clothed,
Speaker 1: of course, and it made me really uncomfortable. I have
Speaker 1: to say. I remember taking some acting classes in college
Speaker 1: and we would do various trust exercises, you know, to
Speaker 1: try and get everybody on the same page. And they
Speaker 1: would do a thing where everyone would you have to
Speaker 1: like lay with your head on the um on the
Speaker 1: lap of of the of one person, and then you're
Speaker 1: I forget how we were all sort of chained together
Speaker 1: in this, but that was really awkward because they ended
Speaker 1: up like laying my head on the crotch, like the
Speaker 1: back of my head on the crotch of this other
Speaker 1: person in the acting class, and like and and she
Speaker 1: she was just kind of like clamped up. She didn't
Speaker 1: say anything, and that the acting started came around and
Speaker 1: it's like like you guys, comfortable you should in the like.
Speaker 1: So that was really awkward. Yeah, and I will say
Speaker 1: that I take this naya exercise class as some martial
Speaker 1: arts dance class. It's a great physical activity, but the
Speaker 1: instructor was really into, uh, sort of investigating how we
Speaker 1: feel with one another. So at the end of the
Speaker 1: class she had us crawl around each other like earthworms
Speaker 1: crawl over each other, and of course I stepped on
Speaker 1: someone's hand. There was, you know, outrage. It's interesting because
Speaker 1: people coming into that class that would be thinking, there's
Speaker 1: nothing nothing fishy about this. It's it's dance, sure, but
Speaker 1: it's martial arts. So why m c A. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna have this normal exercise class. Yeah, yeah, next thing,
Speaker 1: you know, laughter, yoga, right yeah, and yeah, right after that,
Speaker 1: I'll a sudden there passing around mirrors for all the ladies.
Speaker 1: If you know what I'm talking about. Um, if you don't,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. You don't need to know, all right,
Speaker 1: So what about what about having machines hug you? Ah? Yes? Um.
Speaker 1: There are two fine examples of this, the first of
Speaker 1: which is an actual robot. Big surprise. Uh, someone in
Speaker 1: the pan has been working on a robot that day
Speaker 1: you can hug call the sence roid. Do you want
Speaker 1: to describe what this looks like? Um, it looks like
Speaker 1: the upper torso of a mannequin tricked out with a
Speaker 1: sensor suit. Okay, so it has sort of it looks
Speaker 1: a little less and m to me just in terms
Speaker 1: of like, you know, it's it's a black sensor suit
Speaker 1: we wrapped around average torso of a a mannequin. So it's
Speaker 1: you know, from the get go, it doesn't exactly look like,
Speaker 1: oh man, this is a great hug machine. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then the person who is engaging with the mannequin and
Speaker 1: the human is wearing a vest that interacts with it.
Speaker 1: And there's when they when they or act the pressure yeah,
Speaker 1: between their connection is triggered and it feels like a hug.
Speaker 1: But I wrong with that except the video of it,
Speaker 1: the demonstration, it looks like the guy was kind of uh,
Speaker 1: sort of molesting it only with his hands, I mean
Speaker 1: in his arms obviously, but um, it was very aggressive
Speaker 1: like he was just sort of attacking this mannequin. Well,
Speaker 1: he's learning, right, I mean, if you're hugging I'm you're
Speaker 1: hugging a robot, either a your your heart or maybe
Speaker 1: a hug junkie and you just can't get it. It
Speaker 1: was a total hug junkie. Okay. But my other theory
Speaker 1: would be they don't really know how to hug and
Speaker 1: they're using this robot as an attempt to learn, in
Speaker 1: which case you might not really know what you're doing
Speaker 1: and there might be some some inappropriate uh um, you know,
Speaker 1: fondling of the robots back or right, and you don't
Speaker 1: have to worry so much about offending it, right. Um.
Speaker 1: But I mean again, this guy is getting the high
Speaker 1: I guess you could say of hugging and all of
Speaker 1: the health benefits of hugging you ro So in the future,
Speaker 1: what are we going to have a Roxy the hugging robot?
Speaker 1: Do you think Roxy um worst robot ever? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: an interesting question, especially you know, we've given the podcast
Speaker 1: we record in the past about the future of like
Speaker 1: home care providers, robotic home care providers, and these are
Speaker 1: machines who are gonna be living in a physical environment
Speaker 1: with us. They're going to be a part of our lives. Um,
Speaker 1: to what degree do we end up having that bond
Speaker 1: of trust and to what extends should we encourage that
Speaker 1: bond of trust through hugging, because I mean some people
Speaker 1: might say, oh, I can't imagine the robot robot coming
Speaker 1: in for a hug on me. That would be like
Speaker 1: that would be a little creepy. But maybe not. Maybe
Speaker 1: it would. It would build a bond where you have
Speaker 1: of actual I mean, at least on one side care
Speaker 1: um the robot. Probably not. That's what I was gonna say, Like,
Speaker 1: by the time we're eighty or ninety and we we
Speaker 1: have our robot helpers, maybe that is a feature that
Speaker 1: we want. How's that help? Thatt? If that? Why not? Um? Still,
Speaker 1: the the I guess the video of the sky attack
Speaker 1: the mannequ and I shouldn't say attacking, but just vigorous hugging.
Speaker 1: Vigorous hugging going on seemed a little bit menacing, at
Speaker 1: least for the for the mannequin that I'm bestowing all
Speaker 1: these human qualities on. And of course, the other hug
Speaker 1: machine that comes to mind would be a Temple grand
Speaker 1: And hug machine. Um. I know. And if you're not
Speaker 1: familiar with with Temple Grandon, um, then a she has
Speaker 1: an excellent tied talk. Uh and then be they made
Speaker 1: the movie Temple Grand And where Clare Daan's plays. There
Speaker 1: was an HBO TV movie and it's it's really quite
Speaker 1: good and she's and she's excellent in it as Temple Grand,
Speaker 1: she's brilliant, she's autistic. She revolutionized animal science. Um, and
Speaker 1: she was thinking like all right, she like she was
Speaker 1: totally like, yeah, slaughtering animals, that's you know, she had
Speaker 1: no problem with that. She you know, she was very
Speaker 1: much a cowgirl herself. But she was like, there's no
Speaker 1: need for it to be cruel, like, there's no need
Speaker 1: for these animals to be stressed out. And you don't
Speaker 1: want to stressed out animal in there from just a
Speaker 1: just a purely utilitarian frame of mind, like even if
Speaker 1: you don't care about what how the animal actually feels,
Speaker 1: you want that you don't want the meat to be
Speaker 1: all drawn up and uh and tight. Right, that's true.
Speaker 1: If if the muscles contract, then you're gonna get a
Speaker 1: tough kind of meat there. Um. But yeah, she used
Speaker 1: her own anxiety in her own empathy toward animals actually,
Speaker 1: which is interesting because she is autistic um to to
Speaker 1: uh sort of imagine what that experience would be and
Speaker 1: help revolutionize that so that animals when when they were
Speaker 1: actually going to be slaughtered, were a lot calmer. Um.
Speaker 1: But she also, again dealing with her own anxieties, created
Speaker 1: the squeeze machine. She actually wrote about her experiences in
Speaker 1: the journal Child and Adolescents psycho Pharmacology, and she says,
Speaker 1: as a child, I crave to feel the comfort of
Speaker 1: being held, but I would pull away when people hugged me.
Speaker 1: When hugged, an overwhelming tidal wave of sensation flowed through me.
Speaker 1: At times, I preferred such intense stimulation to the point
Speaker 1: of pain rather than accept ordinary hugs. At puberty, anxiety
Speaker 1: and nervousness. Nervousness made me feel as though I was
Speaker 1: calm sently in a state of stage fright. While the
Speaker 1: nature of this anxiety was not diagnosed at the time,
Speaker 1: they have been retrospectively diagnosed as panic attacks. So at
Speaker 1: the age of eighteen, she constructed this squeeze machine to
Speaker 1: help calm herself down. And um, if you haven't seen it,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of easy to imagine her crawling into
Speaker 1: like an iron maiden, but it's it's not. It's more
Speaker 1: like panels that that press in when she pulls on
Speaker 1: levers or strings. Right, Yeah, she's got a lever that
Speaker 1: that can control the pressure um per square inch, and
Speaker 1: she said that using the machine for fifteen minutes would
Speaker 1: reduce her anxiety for up to forty five to sixty
Speaker 1: minutes UH and then the relaxing effect was maximized if
Speaker 1: the machine was used twice a day. And gradually her
Speaker 1: tolerance of being held by the squeeze machine grew, and
Speaker 1: also eventually her tolerance of being hugged and touched by
Speaker 1: other people grew through this machine. And she did really
Speaker 1: interesting studies with this machine on herself, on other college
Speaker 1: students and also animals and across the boards. You found
Speaker 1: that this machine, because of this um there's deep touch pressure,
Speaker 1: it actually did the same sort of thing that a
Speaker 1: hug would do, which is to release that oxytocin and
Speaker 1: to reduce cortisol. Well, I've I've never used a hug
Speaker 1: machine per se that I wish we had. When it works,
Speaker 1: we should. We should talk to Tony. I'm pucking one in.
Speaker 1: It's like the office needs a hug machine. It does
Speaker 1: remind me though, some things in yoga that are like like,
Speaker 1: for instance, when you roll into a ball, you know
Speaker 1: and sort of on your child's what child's boat is
Speaker 1: what pos as well, when you're you're facing down and
Speaker 1: then also to to some extent eagle pose where you're
Speaker 1: wrapping your limbs up like I always find the lower
Speaker 1: portion of the eagle where you you intertwine your legs
Speaker 1: and sort of bring her in the front of your
Speaker 1: foot around behind your ankle like that. To me, that
Speaker 1: feels really comforting. And I'm not I'm not really sure why.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You just kind of feel like you're
Speaker 1: hugging yourself. It's kind of like you're hugging yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like you're you're you're kind of like tight and compact,
Speaker 1: and you're there's a a sense of comfort in itself well,
Speaker 1: and it's it's interesting because it is that deep pressure
Speaker 1: that is really important because if you were just to
Speaker 1: lightly stroke your skin or someone else's, then that would
Speaker 1: excite your nervous system. But somehow that deep pressure is
Speaker 1: what you need, in that constant deep pressure to really
Speaker 1: tell your your nervous system to calm down. This also
Speaker 1: reminds me time massage at times feels a little bit
Speaker 1: like it's kind of like being hugged. It's like a
Speaker 1: cross for anyone who's has never had time massage. It's
Speaker 1: it's a rather different animal than um sort of a
Speaker 1: typical Western massage therapy where there's, you know, where they
Speaker 1: generally have some like soft music playing. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of more like a continued pressure kind of stuff. But um,
Speaker 1: but with the time massage, it's like a lot of
Speaker 1: like alternating pressure and to a certain extent, it feels
Speaker 1: like someone is It's like a cross between somebody giving
Speaker 1: you a massage, someone putting you in a wrestling hold,
Speaker 1: and at times someone kind of hugging you right right,
Speaker 1: So yeah, there you go. I mean, I love this
Speaker 1: hugging thing because you know, not only can you just
Speaker 1: use it on a day to day basis, you're you're
Speaker 1: hugging your significant other, family members, you get a big
Speaker 1: high off of it, but you can also manipulate others
Speaker 1: with your hugs. Right. You can get them in a
Speaker 1: bear hug, in a wrestling hold, and if they're inconsolable,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty seconds later they're just going to be
Speaker 1: like a babe in your arms. Yeah. I should mention
Speaker 1: another disaster hug that I encountered, and that was one
Speaker 1: where I was like talking about hug awkwardness with some
Speaker 1: people at a at a party and uh, and so
Speaker 1: I was kind of like the challenge. The gaantlet was
Speaker 1: laid down, so I needed to actually hug this guy.
Speaker 1: So my friend Matt. So so i go in for
Speaker 1: a hug on Matt and I'm like, all right, let's
Speaker 1: do it. Let's just do a big manly hug right here.
Speaker 1: And right at that moment, somebody tried to cut between
Speaker 1: us and that with like a beverage in their hand,
Speaker 1: and so they were smashed between us as we attempted
Speaker 1: to hug, and their drink fell to the to the
Speaker 1: floor and shattered and it was very traumatic. Dude, that's
Speaker 1: some bad hug karma. Yeah, that way it was exactly.
Speaker 1: It was bad hug karma. I should point out that
Speaker 1: I do not have a hug awkwardness with my wife.
Speaker 1: I do really enjoy hugging my wife. Well, no, because
Speaker 1: you're doing I'm doing twenty seconds or more. I'm yeah.
Speaker 1: And I should also mention, just to call back, we
Speaker 1: did a mystery Box episode and in that I made
Speaker 1: a I talked about having been given a virginity box
Speaker 1: when I was in the junior high and I was
Speaker 1: supposed to you're supposed to hold on that for long,
Speaker 1: and and I mentioned the people. It's like, hey, if
Speaker 1: you're out there and you are a virgin, you know,
Speaker 1: and no matter what your age is, uh like, don't
Speaker 1: freak out about it, like it's no big deal. Like
Speaker 1: sex is no big deal. I of course m was
Speaker 1: referring to just the social pressure that is often put
Speaker 1: on people to have sex, and was in no way
Speaker 1: implying that that sex itself is no big deal, especially
Speaker 1: as far as my my significant others concerned. Oh no,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we all know. Sex it's a big deal, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: driving force behind pretty much everything we do every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like that after my wife, I listen to this, like
Speaker 1: it's not a little weird when you said, hey, don't
Speaker 1: worry about sex, is no big deal. So just wanted
Speaker 1: to me, I go, what you're saying. You were just
Speaker 1: telling the kids out there, if it hasn't happened yet,
Speaker 1: no big deal. Yeah, don't stress out about it. That's
Speaker 1: my point. So hey, speaking of the kids out there,
Speaker 1: I wonder if any of them have sent us some mail.
Speaker 1: Let's call the robot for that's coming in for a hug,
Speaker 1: all right, here's a little email from our listener Allison
Speaker 1: out of Victoria, British Columbia, Canada and right and says,
Speaker 1: I run a computer lab and while tiding up the
Speaker 1: lab during December exam period, I came across some interesting
Speaker 1: graffiti on one of the desks. All week, we've been
Speaker 1: hosting exams for the lab sections of e d D
Speaker 1: one oh one, a class aimed at first year students
Speaker 1: who want to learn how to study effectively for test,
Speaker 1: how to improve their learning, etcetera. Which is why I
Speaker 1: couldn't help but laugh when I came across very faintly
Speaker 1: written crib notes on the desktop underneath a keyboard. Someone
Speaker 1: took the time to cheat on a test about how
Speaker 1: to take tests effectively. My coworker and I joked about
Speaker 1: putting up signs in the lab, and today I made
Speaker 1: it a reality. You see, this afternoon was the first
Speaker 1: lab section of this semester's e d D one oh
Speaker 1: one intake. I made sure to print extras in full
Speaker 1: color and post them all around both computer lads, just
Speaker 1: in case the new students needed an extra reminder. The
Speaker 1: photo was difficult to take due to the lighting in
Speaker 1: the room and because it was written so faintly, but
Speaker 1: I'm sure the point is fairly clear. The text is
Speaker 1: a tweet I made after finding the Scripples in December,
Speaker 1: and she sent us an amusing photo of it. I
Speaker 1: love the podcast. I always eagerly await new ones to
Speaker 1: add to my queue alongside other wonderful Agent of You podcasts.
Speaker 1: I love that. And we talked about that in the
Speaker 1: cheating episode, about how when you put a mirror up
Speaker 1: to someone um to their behavior, that's usually going to
Speaker 1: stem that sort of transgression that they're about to make right,
Speaker 1: so that hopefully that will be effective. We do know, though,
Speaker 1: if you have someone sign a contract or some sort
Speaker 1: of ethics code of ethics, that that's even more effective,
Speaker 1: which was really interesting to learn about cheating. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: definitely been in some classes where they did that, where
Speaker 1: they're like, here's the here's the code of honor, sign
Speaker 1: it and then participate in my class and then you
Speaker 1: didn't cheat. I don't think so. I don't remember what
Speaker 1: clapp it was, but probably not. Um, you're not a cheater,
Speaker 1: your lover, all right, I guess. Um. Well, anyway, if
Speaker 1: if anything went out there has something they want to
Speaker 1: share with us. You can find us on Facebook and
Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter. Imagine that on Twitter,
Speaker 1: we are blow the Minded. On Facebook, you know, you
Speaker 1: can just look for stuff to blow the mind and
Speaker 1: we are there. And you can also send us an
Speaker 1: email at blow the Mind at how stuff work dot com.
Speaker 1: Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff
Speaker 1: from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we
Speaker 1: explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.