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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Before we jump in, I just

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Speaker 1: want to note this episode involves discussions around sex, so

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Speaker 1: listener discretion is advised. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. It

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Speaker 1: is so amazing to have you here. Back for another episode,

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Speaker 1: one that I am very very excited about. We have

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Speaker 1: a very special guest coming on board who I will

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Speaker 1: introduce too soon. But today we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: hookup culture in out twenties. It is so relevant our

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Speaker 1: twenties or a time for sexual exploration, casual dating, casual hookups.

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Speaker 1: I think for most of us, I would say we

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Speaker 1: have had some experience in this area, be that just

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Speaker 1: making out with someone at a party or something more intimate.

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Speaker 1: It is, I would say, a fairly normal part of

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Speaker 1: growing up, of our learning experience, discovering what we like,

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Speaker 1: what our limits are, what we're into, what kind of

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Speaker 1: dating we enjoy, what kind of relationships we enjoy. But maybe,

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Speaker 1: like me, you come out of it feeling kind of worthless,

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Speaker 1: maybe wanting more. It's definitely not for everyone, and I

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Speaker 1: really want to talk about how hookup culture doesn't always

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Speaker 1: line up to that empowered ideology we've been told. It's

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Speaker 1: obviously an entirely personal preference. So no need to be

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Speaker 1: ashamed of if you are a fan of hook up culture,

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Speaker 1: if you're not. It is for everyone to make their

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Speaker 1: own opinion. And as Louise, our guest always says, everything

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Speaker 1: today is delivered in a sex positive way. Do what

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Speaker 1: you want. We're not here to shame anyone more so,

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Speaker 1: just kind of explore this kind of dynamic and the

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Speaker 1: cultural sexual phenomena of hookup culture and kind of deep

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Speaker 1: dive into the psychology. So we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: the origins of hook up culture, howard has emerged from

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Speaker 1: many social and cultural transitions, why some people are more

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Speaker 1: into hookups and casual sex than others, how it makes

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Speaker 1: us feel our brains on casual sex, and how you

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Speaker 1: can go about navigating this sometimes complicated terrain of hookup culture.

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Speaker 1: But without further ado, I would love to introduce oored

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Speaker 1: special guest Louise, would you like to say Hi, Hi everyone,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, for having me on your podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am so so enamored and obsessed by all of

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Speaker 1: the work you do, and just to everyone listening, I

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Speaker 1: think it's so cool that you're listening. I think there

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Speaker 1: is nothing sexier, cooler, more amazing than like doing the

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Speaker 1: self work and looking inwards. So I'm so excited to

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Speaker 1: go on this journey with you today. I have so

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Speaker 1: much to share. It's going to be it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a fun one. And I love how you bring

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Speaker 1: the science and the psychology and all of the sources.

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Speaker 1: You know, very trustworthy, reliable. So can't wait and thank you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am so excited. I feel like we're going to

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Speaker 1: have a bit of an overshare today. For those of

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Speaker 1: you who don't know, Louise is the host of an

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Speaker 1: incredible podcast called open House or the open House Podcast.

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Speaker 1: You talk a lot about, you know, the intersections between relationships,

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Speaker 1: and you talk about therapy, you talk about sex, you

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Speaker 1: talk about pop culture, so many amazing things. So I

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Speaker 1: think you are the perfect guest for this episode. Thank you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've definitely got a lot of stories in the dating world,

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Speaker 1: the sex world, the good, the bad, the sad. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've cried so many times after sex, Like we're going

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Speaker 1: to just get into the realities today but also also

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Speaker 1: the beautiful. I think we're going to cover everything, and

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to see where this goes with you today. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I think that's one of those things right where we

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Speaker 1: all know that hookup culture is part of our even

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Speaker 1: our teenagers, but definitely our twenties for those of us

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Speaker 1: who choose to partake as I know that both of

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Speaker 1: you and I have at various points in our life,

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Speaker 1: but there is still, I think some stigma but also

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Speaker 1: not always a clear or a bit of an ambiguous

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Speaker 1: understanding around what it does to our brains, why we

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Speaker 1: leave certain casual sexual dating interactions feeling really worthless about ourselves.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's also important to acknowledge that we

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Speaker 1: have experienced these massive cultural and societal shifts recently. You know,

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Speaker 1: it previously used to be that casual sex was not

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Speaker 1: permissible you got married, you had children, if you're a

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Speaker 1: hetero person, and you had sex within the confines of

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Speaker 1: a married relationship, And there has been that massive shift recently. Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that's something you can speak to as well, Like,

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Speaker 1: what do you think some of those major reasons are

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Speaker 1: behind why this process has kind of taken place. Definitely.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're right with the massive social and cultural shifts,

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Speaker 1: and I think that so much of that has been

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Speaker 1: driven by not only like the sexual liberation move in

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Speaker 1: the sixties, where people started to really you know, let

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Speaker 1: go of those constraints that people had lived with for

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Speaker 1: so long and move more into this space of freedom

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Speaker 1: and love and also like acceptance of their bodies and

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Speaker 1: really like leaning into that, which I think is really beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I think that set the foundations for this, But there's

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Speaker 1: still stigma around that. Right if you look back at

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Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, you know, it's like, oh, flower power,

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Speaker 1: like everyone was like having sex with everyone. Like the

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Speaker 1: way that we talk about it is still with an

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Speaker 1: angle or like a lens of shame, which I think

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Speaker 1: is so interesting. But what I also think is so

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Speaker 1: interesting is that I think that culture today has romanticized

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Speaker 1: and fantasized all of this. Like if you watch a movie,

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Speaker 1: they fall in love, they kiss, they have sex. You

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Speaker 1: never hear them talking about like do you want to

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Speaker 1: do this? Like have you got protection? Like what are

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Speaker 1: we going to be after this? You never see any

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Speaker 1: of these discussions. It's just this romance whirlwind, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we just have picked that up from as young as

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Speaker 1: you can remember, with every movie, every relationship, celebrity relationship

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Speaker 1: that we've ever looked at. I just feel like the

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Speaker 1: media around us has sort of romanticized this whole hook

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Speaker 1: up culture, and sometimes the truth is that it isn't

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Speaker 1: It isn't quite as romantic as we want it to be. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I totally agree, and like the point you make about

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Speaker 1: how the meat if we get a lot of our

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Speaker 1: sexual education from the media. But I think you have

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Speaker 1: an amazing point. Right, we had that sexual revolution, birth

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Speaker 1: control became more accessible so you didn't have to worry

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Speaker 1: about unwanted pregnancies out of wedlock. But I feel like

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Speaker 1: we still have those very traditional concepts about what a

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Speaker 1: relationship should look like. We're still very much a monogamous society,

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Speaker 1: with the majority of us would say that we want

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Speaker 1: a monogamous relationship. We think about marriage, we want to

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Speaker 1: have children in a stable relationship. That's still something that's

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Speaker 1: very much ingrained with us within us. But our kind

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Speaker 1: of values and our attitudes towards sex haven't have kind

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Speaker 1: of sped up a little bit further in that process,

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Speaker 1: and we haven't really been able to catch up in

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Speaker 1: that sense. And it's all been, like you said, actually

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Speaker 1: romanticized by these movies, which show like someone falling onto

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Speaker 1: the bed with their like really hot movie star partner

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Speaker 1: that they just met in the bar, and like they

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Speaker 1: just like have this crazy sex and it's always really

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Speaker 1: really good and really fulfilling. I don't think I've ever

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Speaker 1: seen a scene in a TV show, in a movie

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Speaker 1: where there has been the like what are we conversation

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Speaker 1: never or like someone's been like talking to their friends

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Speaker 1: around like oh, like I hooked up with this guy

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Speaker 1: once and now I like have lots of regrets and

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Speaker 1: or I feel really bad, and you know, most of

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Speaker 1: the time their friends are like, oh yeah, like single

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Speaker 1: girl sleigh like oh like like go for it, like

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Speaker 1: you've left your husband whatever. There's all these tropes around it,

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Speaker 1: and we haven't really caught up to that. And like

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Speaker 1: I know that you've you've spoke about this before and

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Speaker 1: when we've spoken about this before, but casual sex or

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Speaker 1: casual even just like cook ups, like making out with someone,

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Speaker 1: like cuddling someone, doing anything else can leave us feeling

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Speaker 1: kind of empty in a way that isn't always seen

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Speaker 1: in kind of the glamorized movies that we've watched them

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Speaker 1: Two Children. Yeah, and just to build on that, because

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Speaker 1: you've mentioned cuddling, and I think this is one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I've done a lot in my own therapy,

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Speaker 1: but also spoken about on my podcast, is that often

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Speaker 1: I find, I don't know if you've experienced this, that sometimes, honestly,

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Speaker 1: looking back at a hookup, all I actually wanted was

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Speaker 1: a cuddle. Like sometimes all I wanted was like some intimacy,

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Speaker 1: to maybe just be making out with them. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's so fun to be like hooking up with someone

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Speaker 1: in a bar or on a night out or on

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Speaker 1: a day or whatever that is. And then sometimes everything

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Speaker 1: sort of just runs away with you and everything picks

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Speaker 1: up speed and you don't really know this person, and

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Speaker 1: then it's kind of hard to have that conversation before

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Speaker 1: it happens, much like you said, And then it happens

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, whatever part of the encounter that is,

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Speaker 1: and then the next day, all of a sudden, you

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Speaker 1: wake up to the stark reality of, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: you know that actually all I wanted was a cuddle

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Speaker 1: and some attention and actually then the next day you

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Speaker 1: feel like really empty. And I think at some point

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Speaker 1: maybe we can go into what that empty feeling is

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Speaker 1: because everyone says, oh I feel empty or I felt used.

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Speaker 1: The truth is there's so much behind that, and it's

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Speaker 1: a really really important for us to just all unpack.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes you're right, you just want to cuddle. And

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Speaker 1: I think there is this expectation, right because we've become

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Speaker 1: more sexually liberated, which is an amazing, amazing thing, but

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Speaker 1: there is always this expectation of like, okay, intimacy equal sex.

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Speaker 1: Now intimacy equals some form of like yeah, sexual encounter,

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Speaker 1: which sometimes it's like we actually don't want that from someone.

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Speaker 1: We actually want platonic intimacy, or we want some other

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Speaker 1: form of intimacy. And I think it's also worth acknowledging

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Speaker 1: if you're listening to this being like, no part of

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Speaker 1: casual sex sounds good to me, or maybe you're someone

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Speaker 1: who's like, oh I love casual sex. This is super fulfilling.

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Speaker 1: That's also totally normal because I think people are really

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Speaker 1: different in kind of what we desire from our sex lives,

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Speaker 1: what we desire from our romantic kind of pursuits. I

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Speaker 1: was telling The Ways earlier about this personality measure out

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Speaker 1: called socio actuality, and it kind of measures whether someone

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Speaker 1: is going to be more inclined to engage in casual sex.

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Speaker 1: And it's a personality feature that each of us have

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Speaker 1: that we sit on a spectrum. So I have friends,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you have friends the Ways, or maybe I've

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Speaker 1: even been this person at a point in my life

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Speaker 1: where like casual sex, short term relationships, no commitment, that

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Speaker 1: was something that was super interesting to me and something

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Speaker 1: that I was like, yeah, I'm a big fan of this.

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Speaker 1: But then there are other people who are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this actually isn't where I stand. This is not what

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for when I go into these interactions, which

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Speaker 1: is like kind of shit when you're like, oh, maybe

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't want to do this, but the other person,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was this like expectation or like kind

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Speaker 1: of like this societal pressure. Like I think we've almost

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Speaker 1: turned away from slut shaming, of course it still exists

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Speaker 1: into this like very like sex is empowering, so you

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Speaker 1: should be having heaps of sex, and if you're not

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Speaker 1: having heaps of sex, like there's something about you that's undesirable,

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Speaker 1: like if you found that as well, like within your

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Speaker 1: friendship group or within your own life. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: it's so important to touch on this point of sexual liberation.

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Speaker 1: And you know, with the rise of feminism, like you said,

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Speaker 1: with the rise of birth control, there is this space

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Speaker 1: where we are stepping into a more empowered space where

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, why should men be able to sleep

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Speaker 1: with ten people and no one bat an eyelid? One

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Speaker 1: hundred people and no one beat an eyelid, you know,

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Speaker 1: more well, whatever that number is, there's very little judging

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Speaker 1: around the man, and they might just be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're a fuck boy. Sorry, I don't know. If you

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Speaker 1: swear on your podcast, go for it, okay, faffort, you know,

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Speaker 1: oh they're a fuck boy. But then there's also this

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Speaker 1: kind of mentality that if they're the fuck boy, they're

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Speaker 1: kind of attractive and everyone's into them and everyone wants them,

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Speaker 1: whereas like that does not happen for us. And I

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Speaker 1: think that it's just really interesting that, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you look back to like Bridget and say, if you've

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Speaker 1: watched that TV program, the whole thing in that is

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Speaker 1: that you're waiting to be chosen by the man, you know,

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Speaker 1: the room full of women you're waiting to be chosen.

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Speaker 1: We're moving away from that today, where you're right, empowerment,

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Speaker 1: female empowerment. We can do whatever we want, and so

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Speaker 1: we should be able to. But the truth, the truth

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Speaker 1: is is that underneath that empowerment, I still don't think

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Speaker 1: we're having the truthful discussions around what do I actually

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Speaker 1: want here? And like you said, that point, that point

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Speaker 1: around intimacy is you might just want to cuddle, or

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Speaker 1: you might want to hook up but not have penetrative sex,

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Speaker 1: or because you know, for me, I'm I'm well, I'm

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Speaker 1: in a relationship now, but before I would have been

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Speaker 1: way more happy having a hook up that didn't involve

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Speaker 1: penetrative sex, because for me, I have more trauma around

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Speaker 1: that and I want to know someone and feel safe

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Speaker 1: with them, but I'd happily do other stuff. And then

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Speaker 1: I have friends who would sleep with a different guy

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Speaker 1: every weekend and it would it wouldn't FaZe them at all,

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Speaker 1: there would be no negative emotions coming up. So you're right,

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Speaker 1: We're also different and so unique, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: just about being really compassionate with our own story because

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Speaker 1: often we do have our own sex story, and often

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Speaker 1: it does come from a real like a place of

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Speaker 1: pain and you know, um, not being respected or doing

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Speaker 1: things we didn't want to do or regret or shame

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Speaker 1: or guilt. And when we are just a little bit

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Speaker 1: clearer and more compassionate with our own truth, I think

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Speaker 1: I think we can then say it's actually, like you said,

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Speaker 1: what do I want from this? You know, do I

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Speaker 1: actually just want a cuddle or a date and some flirting.

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Speaker 1: And I think it can help help us just manage

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Speaker 1: those boundaries a little bit better. And it's I'm reminded

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Speaker 1: of this quote I heard of the other day, was like,

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Speaker 1: just because it's empowering doesn't mean it leaves you feeling

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Speaker 1: empowered love that, which I just think, Yeah, it's so

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Speaker 1: it's so pertinent to this conversation, right, It's like, just

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Speaker 1: because society has told you that, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: we're specifically talking to women here or people who identify

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Speaker 1: as women. Um, just because society has told you that

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Speaker 1: to be empowered, you should be having casual sex. You

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Speaker 1: should be reclaiming the sexual narrative that has very much

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Speaker 1: and historically very much been in the favor of men.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't mean that you personally have to be on board

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Speaker 1: with that, like there are other ways that you can

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Speaker 1: feel liberated. And I feel like sometimes sexual freedom gets

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Speaker 1: confused with like sexual promiscuity, which is like super fair.

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Speaker 1: Like I would say that I'm a fairly promiscuous person

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Speaker 1: at this point in my life because that's my preference.

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Speaker 1: I think Louis has given me a clap. I'm capping

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Speaker 1: just like mainly for your honesty, because I felt like

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Speaker 1: in my twenties, like i'm older than you, I would

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Speaker 1: never be able to sit on a podcast and say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm in my promiscuous phase because I held so much

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Speaker 1: shame around being promiscuous because I did so many things

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Speaker 1: and I felt so regretful. But now like i'm older,

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Speaker 1: I'm exactly the same. Like that's why we're here talking

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Speaker 1: about this. But just to hear you, hear you say that,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my goodness, this is this is a

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Speaker 1: healthy queen. Like I love to hear it. I love

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Speaker 1: to hear it you made. But I think that it's

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Speaker 1: it comes from like a point of like, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: in like whatever, my promiscuous error, but the thing is

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Speaker 1: that I'm not and even then I would say that

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Speaker 1: hook up culture still doesn't always benefit me because you

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Speaker 1: both have to be in the same mindset, if you

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Speaker 1: if this is a casual interaction for it to work.

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Speaker 1: Like I've had so many interactions in which I know

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Speaker 1: in my deepest of hearts that I am, I'm a

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Speaker 1: relationship girlie like I in my long in the long run,

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Speaker 1: would love commitment, would love a partner, would love someone

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Speaker 1: who I can trust and talk to um. But at

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Speaker 1: this point in my life, that's not something that's like,

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Speaker 1: is going to fit in with how busy I am

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Speaker 1: with my schedule, with my life priorities. But you know,

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Speaker 1: girls gotta eat. Girl's gotta eat, and we do have

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Speaker 1: biological needs, you know. And it's it's really like how

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Speaker 1: I think, I think just to your point, it's like,

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Speaker 1: what does empowerment mean to you? What does empower I

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Speaker 1: mean to you? Like for me, I've realized that empowerment

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Speaker 1: means protecting my energy, protecting my body until I feel

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Speaker 1: safe enough with someone and understand the truth of their

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Speaker 1: intentions that I can then share my body with them,

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Speaker 1: share my pleasure with them, share the experience with them,

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Speaker 1: And that for me is empowering. Whereas before, when I

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Speaker 1: was younger, I didn't have any of those things, so

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Speaker 1: I always went into the promiscuous box rather than the

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Speaker 1: sexually empowered. Like I wasn't sexually empowered or sexually liberated

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Speaker 1: when I was younger. I was just being driven to promiscuity.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even sure if that's a word by so

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Speaker 1: so many parts of me that were looking for love

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Speaker 1: and looking for validation and looking for attention, and that's

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Speaker 1: that's not that's for me. That wasn't empowering, and it

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Speaker 1: really really hurt me. But I think when you do

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Speaker 1: the work and you start to do this work and

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Speaker 1: the healing, you realize like, oh yeah, I can, I

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Speaker 1: can do this in a more empowered way, because empowered

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Speaker 1: to me means X y Z and it's different for everyone.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's such a beautiful way of putting it. I

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Speaker 1: feel like you're like a mentor to me. You're like,

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Speaker 1: I'm like your younger self. But I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: coming out of it, like I actually I know this, Like, um,

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Speaker 1: I went on this date with someone recently and it

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Speaker 1: was like super casual. It was without giving details. We

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Speaker 1: love details. Yeah, maybe later, maybe do an R rated

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Speaker 1: card of this, but it was it was a hook up, right,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to apply to that, and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've done this before, like this is fun. And then

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Speaker 1: like three days, like for the next three days, I

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00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 1: just was like, actually, just don't feel great about myself.

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Speaker 1: I actually feel like I really liked this person and

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Speaker 1: I would have actually really enjoyed to getting to know them.

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Speaker 1: And I made that clear to them and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think that's what we were doing. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, all right, I think that I've Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: was like that feels yeah. Yeah. Literally, I was like

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Speaker 1: I was like, I just feels so awful. But I

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Speaker 1: also was like, okay, like I think I'm done here,

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Speaker 1: Like this, this actually isn't perhaps what I want. I

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00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 1: think that although I was making those choices and although

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00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 1: it like fit with the lifestyle I have right now,

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00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 1: and I'm quite young and I want to explore and

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Speaker 1: you know, there's still a lot of stuff that I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to deal with from previous relationships that I think

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00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't be helpful to bring into any relationship to until

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Speaker 1: that's resolved. It's important to kind of maybe know my

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Speaker 1: boundaries around commitment. I still think it's one of those

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00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 1: things where I was like, I in some way have

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Speaker 1: come to think that having sex with someone casually is

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Speaker 1: going or doing something with someone casually is going to

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Speaker 1: make me feel better, because in the past it's made

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Speaker 1: me feel better and it no longer is doing that.

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Speaker 1: And like, the more research I did into it, and

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Speaker 1: also just anecdotal experience, the more I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: Like the part of my brain that enjoys this now

363
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: is growing up, it's maturing. I actually want to talk

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00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 1: about this study because I think it's really interesting. Here,

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00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: which was a study done in the US, and it

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Speaker 1: interviewed both men and women the morning after hookup. Super fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Eighty two percent of men were like, yeah, pretty happy

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Speaker 1: that I did that, glad that they'd done it. Only

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Speaker 1: fifty seven percent of women, So, like, I do also

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Speaker 1: think it's a gendered thing in some ways as well,

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Speaker 1: like feelings like regret are more likely to impact women.

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Speaker 1: Emotional difficulties, a sense of a loss of respect, even

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Speaker 1: like difficulties with a steady partner in the future, embarrassment Like,

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Speaker 1: none of that to scare anyone, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: something that as you mature, as well, and you realize

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Speaker 1: that it's not all glamorous and romantic. You start to

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00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,360
Speaker 1: be like, oh, there actually our emotional consequences to this,

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00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: and it's okay to be someone who says this isn't

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Speaker 1: for me, Like does that kind of relate to you,

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Speaker 1: Like did you have some of that experience as well

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Speaker 1: when you moved out of your promiscuity era? Oh, my goodness, yes.

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Speaker 1: And I think that it is such a gendered topic.

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00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought up that study because it

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00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 1: is such a fascinating study. And I think that is

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00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: the research that also said that more women than men

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Speaker 1: hoped that a relationship would develop following a hookup and

387
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: exactly yeah, and that they also identified more emotional involvement

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Speaker 1: than the men. And I think it's so important that

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Speaker 1: there's research being put behind these things, because we always say,

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00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, we make these sweeping generalizations like oh, men

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00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: love casual sex, men find casual sex way easier than women.

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Speaker 1: It's awesome to actually start to put some statistics behind that.

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Speaker 1: And this ties me to my point of silence, which

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Speaker 1: is that what I find in general hookups, casual hook ups,

395
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Speaker 1: casual sex, is there's an element of silence, right, Like

396
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: you said, you didn't communicate to this guy that you

397
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 1: went on a date with before, maybe because you weren't

398
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: aware at that point, or maybe because you don't feel comfortable,

399
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: you don't want to come on too strong. You didn't

400
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: commune Kate like, Hey, I'm super up for being intimate

401
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: with you, but I kind of think that i'd also

402
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: like this to maybe become something else. You know, how

403
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 1: how do you feel about that? And it's this element

404
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 1: of silence. And if you have the hook up and

405
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 1: you have silence, then what I find happens is we

406
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: add our own meaning, we add our own intention, and

407
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: we add our own like story around their intention. And

408
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 1: when I was younger, maybe when I was your age,

409
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: they'd give me attention and I'd think it was intention.

410
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh my gosh, this is going to

411
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: be something like oh my goodness, this we might be

412
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 1: boyfriend and girlfriend, like this might be something. And you know,

413
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 1: with attachment wounds and attachment hunger as well, you also

414
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: can end up going into that oh my god, this

415
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: is it, this is my person, like they're going to

416
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: save everything. Yes, yeah, like exactly. Honestly, I'm like I've

417
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: been there too, so I'm like, no, no shame, no judgment,

418
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: but it's that silence. When you have silence, we add

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00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: our own meaning. And I just think it's so great

420
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: that we're starting to have some of that research that

421
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: you just pulled out there to start to just share

422
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 1: the truth that yes, sometimes women maybe do experience more

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00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: emotional like emotional expectations almost yeah, emotional expectations, emotional involvement,

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00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: and maybe even emotional damage. That sounds a bit strong,

425
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: but I think the research shows that like women get

426
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: they regret it more, they maybe feel more upset about

427
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: it afterwards, all guilty, and so I think it's important

428
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: to talk about that. Yeah, And I think it also

429
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,719
Speaker 1: comes to this point of like sexes is, yeah, physical interaction,

430
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: it's great, it feels amazing, but it's also very emotionally

431
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: nuanced and something I think that's something that we should

432
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: be aware of because I will just make it make

433
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: a claim for like the positive impacts which the study

434
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: also found, which I think are worth noting, boosts in

435
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: self esteem, sexual pleasure, relaxation, it's a really great physical outlet.

436
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,239
Speaker 1: And one really interesting one was self awareness, which I

437
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: thought was really really interesting when I was thinking about

438
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: my own history where I was like, from all of

439
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: these casual hookups or even casual relationships, I have taken

440
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: an important lesson and I think it does teach you

441
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: what you want like, and I think that that's where

442
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm at this point, at this emotional turning point, where

443
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: I'm like, this actually isn't what I want. I feel

444
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: like in some ways I have been slightly indoctrinated into

445
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: thinking that it is. And for many of my friends

446
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: it is what they want. I'm like, power to you.

447
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to live vicariously through all of your stories.

448
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: But it's like sexes, I think sometimes can be a

449
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 1: lot of the emotions can be removed when we put

450
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 1: it in a casual context, but that doesn't mean that

451
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: the emotions aren't still lingering somewhere right Like it might

452
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: not be committed, it might not be based in like

453
00:24:54,320 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 1: very pure ephemeral love, but with any intimate interaction, and

454
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: it's like, it's not like your brain is separate from

455
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: your body here, like there will be neurotransmitters that are fired,

456
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: there will be interactions that are going on in your

457
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,719
Speaker 1: brain that you can't always control. One of those is

458
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: that attachment that you talk about and how I think

459
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: as a study shows specifically, women have this expectation of like,

460
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: where is this going to go? I want more, which

461
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: I think is interesting when we talk about like the

462
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 1: brain because we know sex feels great. We've said that

463
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: a million times, and casual sex is a great outlet, right,

464
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 1: but sex also comes with a lot of physical and

465
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: mental experiences, including like the release of neurochemicals like oxytocin

466
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: and dopamine, and those hormones. Those neurochemicals, they are important

467
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: for things like bonding, and they're important for things like attachment,

468
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: feeling safe, feeling secure. Those hormones do not understand the

469
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: difference between casual sex and committed sex, like if the

470
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: pleasure is the same, it's going to respond the same,

471
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: which is why sometimes we might have that feeling of

472
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: hurt or of unrequired longing after we have encountered someone

473
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: and done whatever with them. And it's not even necessarily

474
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: sex that releases that like things like oxytocin. It can

475
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: literally be released from you know, holding hands with someone,

476
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: are getting a really nice hug like we talked about before.

477
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: But you think it is why people naturally get attached

478
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: especially if you haven't, you know, especially if something that

479
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: you've done with a partner is like bringing you a

480
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: lot of joy, Suddenly you can find that, even against

481
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: your will, you you have this like connection with this person.

482
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've had this where you've been like,

483
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: I knew this was casual. I knew this was casual,

484
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: but still you're like waiting for the text, or still

485
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: you're like, what more it's going to come from this?

486
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: I am so glad you brought up waiting for the

487
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: text because I think it's really important that we talk

488
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: about cortisol in this like formula as well, because you're right,

489
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: you know, our oxytocin is soaring because our body is

490
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: bonding physically and it thinks we're going to bond more,

491
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: and there's these expectations of bonding. So that's rising. But

492
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: then also what can be rising in the next few

493
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 1: days afterwards is the cortisol, which is the stress hormone. Right,

494
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: because if you are stressed and you leave and you're

495
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: waiting for them to text you, waiting for them to

496
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: call you, maybe you did something that you didn't want

497
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: to do. Maybe you took things a little bit faster

498
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: and you wish you'd taken things a bit slower. The

499
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: stress hormone cortisol is going to be flooding through your

500
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: body too. And I think that also if you have

501
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: an anxious attachment style. And I'm not sure how much

502
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: you talk about attachment styles, but I talk about them

503
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: all the time because it's something that you know. Understanding

504
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: my attachment style helped me understand myself so much better.

505
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: But that can help you understand why the next few

506
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: days can be really really us for even if you

507
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 1: enjoyed the hook up in the moment, because I think

508
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: what we're saying is we're not saying like, oh, you know,

509
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: we hate every second of the hookup, Like, no, we

510
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: we enjoy the hook up. Sometimes, you know, the hookup

511
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: can be really fun. It can be really exhilarating. It's

512
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: sometimes just the space after the hook up, the emptiness,

513
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: like you said, but also the slightly tight feeling in

514
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: your chest and you're looking at their their phone. You're

515
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: over your phone there WhatsApp, you know they're online. They're

516
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: not texting me back like oh why did I do that?

517
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: Like I shouldn't have done that. And that's when you

518
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: can also be flooded with cortisol and it's just not

519
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: a nice feeling. So I think you're right just having

520
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: compassion and grace for ourselves in understanding that so many

521
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: of these feelings are working at a neurotransmitter level, that

522
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: we can just understand this is our biology at play here,

523
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: and I think it can help us understand these intense

524
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: feelings just a little bit more. And I love that

525
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: you brought up cortisol because I think that that is

526
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: such a valuable part of that kind of equation and

527
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: that interaction that's happening in our brain. The other one

528
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: is the oxytocin crash. So oxytocin is like it's triggered

529
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: often by intimate relations. Like I said, it could be

530
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: triggered by like getting a massage from you know, seeing

531
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: a really beautiful tree of the ocean. I don't know

532
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: anything that brings you joy. But the thing is that

533
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: in those instances where it is something like a little

534
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: bit less intense, something that might actually be more common

535
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: as well, something that doesn't also have some of that

536
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: taboo associated with it. And you know, there's a difference

537
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: between having casual sex with someone and seeing the ocean.

538
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: It brings up different feelings obviously, but those like those

539
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: kind of activities, it's not so much of a spike.

540
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: It's just this like gradual peak and then plateau and

541
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: it feels really really lovely. It's like when you eat

542
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: a banana when you're really hungry and you get those

543
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: like natural levels of like gluecoast and sugar. But it's

544
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: like if you eat like a massive bag of candy

545
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: and you haven't eaten like any sugar for like a

546
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, and you're just like stuffing your face

547
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: with it and you're like, yes, you're gonna have this sugar.

548
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: I right, You're gonna feel amazing. You're gonna be like, yes,

549
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: I want to eat candy all the fucking time. Like yeah,

550
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: like high on high on light. Yeah, actually like buzzing.

551
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: That's literally what oxytocin does. It's like it's the same

552
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: kind of NEU transmit a drug receptor that's used in

553
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: a lot of illicit substances as well. So it's also

554
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: something to note. But we have this crash. So we

555
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: have this crash, this come down, especially when the oxytocin

556
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: isn't prolonged by things like aftercare or things like and

557
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know what aftercare, it's

558
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: like having a cuddle after you've hooked up with someone,

559
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: or doing something that engages in that pleasurable part of

560
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: your brain but has more to do with bonding and

561
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: comfort and security and safety. So if that's not sustained,

562
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: what we're going to say, is that really intense crash.

563
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: Do you have something to say about that? I feel

564
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: like that's something that you could probably speak to as well. Yeah,

565
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm just so happy you said the word after care,

566
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: because it's something that's still not spoken about much, but

567
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 1: it is so so important. I think that I think

568
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: their study is showing that if there is aftercare involved

569
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: in a sexual encounter, it changes the entire way that

570
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 1: you process and experience the encounter. And something as simple

571
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: as a cuddle, an intimate encounter, a conversation after that

572
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: hookup can change the whole experience and help you, Like

573
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: wean off the crash almost, and I think I'm probably

574
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: not alone in that moment that you know it's finished.

575
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: Maybe they roll over, they pick up their phone, maybe

576
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: they just jump and get in the shower on their own,

577
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: and you're just like lying there and you're alone, and

578
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: for me, like, oh, I can feel the emotion now,

579
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Like I've been in that situation so many times. You're

580
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: just like oh, like it's just an oh, like you're

581
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: not going to start well, maybe you will start crying there,

582
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: and if you do, that's absolutely okay because it's like

583
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: a release of emotion. But it's definitely like a oh,

584
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: you know, they've got up, they've left, maybe they just

585
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: go and take a phone call, head to the kitchen,

586
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: whatever it is that they do. I just think that

587
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: that aftercare piece is so important, And if you are

588
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: engaging in a hookup, I would say, don't be ashamed

589
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: to say, like I'm so excited to do this, but

590
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: it's really important for me that you know, we can

591
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: have a cuddle afterwards, Like it elevates the whole, like

592
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: the whole experience for me. And I think it's just

593
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: about delivering that, like we said, everything here is sex positive,

594
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: just just deliver it in a positive way, Like I

595
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: always love saying it would help me elevate the experience

596
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: because it's like that's so cool. It's something that they

597
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: can do really easy that can help experience, like develop

598
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: the experience even more for you. They should want to

599
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: do that for you, right if they get if they

600
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: get access to you, your time, your energy or emotions,

601
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: your body, and you say to them like, hey, I'd

602
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: love to have a cuddle if they if they don't

603
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: want to do that, if they won't give you that, Yeah,

604
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: I think it says. It says everything about the hook

605
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: up and that they probably don't deserve to be hooking

606
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: up with you. Again. Oh yeah, it makes it seem

607
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: so transactional, doesn't it. Where you're like, right, You're like, wow,

608
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: I feel like we just you know, exchanged cash or

609
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: a supermarket. Like I've had that experience before, and I

610
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: remember just being like, wow, I've never felt more empty

611
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: in my life. I was like and it was so sad,

612
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: and I remember being like to myself, like, I'm never

613
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: going to have that experience ever again, that is not

614
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: for me. Much more selective now, I would say, but

615
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: also just like, I think this kind of leads to

616
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: what I really want to talk to you about next,

617
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 1: which is we're obviously most of us in our twenties,

618
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: or I would say, yeah, I would say the majority

619
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: of us are having sex and probably having some form

620
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: of casual sex or casual intimacy, if that's where you're

621
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: at in your life right now. And I think something

622
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: that's not spoken about much. As you know, we talk

623
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: people give a lot of relationship advice, right Like, there's

624
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: so much, so many podcasts, so many articles, so many tiktoks,

625
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: so much information about there out there around to have

626
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: a healthy, long term, stable relationship, but not so many

627
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: about how to have a healthy hookup. So what some

628
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: of the advice that you would give, what some of

629
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: the things that you would Because you obviously have such

630
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: a great language and dialogue around this, I feel like

631
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: it needs to be to be shared. Oh bless you,

632
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: thank you. So yeah. The first one that we've already

633
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: spoken about, I would say, is just knowing your truth.

634
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: And I think that you need to understand and connect

635
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,479
Speaker 1: with yourself before the hookup even starts, because you can't

636
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: really decide it in the moment, because, like we've said,

637
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: there's so many neurotransmitters flying around that sometimes that will

638
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: impair our judgments. So the first one is just understanding

639
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: way or out in your life right now what you

640
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: want and just agreeing some boundaries around that, you know,

641
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: saying to yourself, I'm just going to commit that I'm

642
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: going to stick within these boundaries because I know that

643
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: this is going to make me feel better in the

644
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: long rue. So yeah, the first the first one is

645
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: knowing your truth. The second one, like I've said, is communication.

646
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: And it feels awkward to have this communication sometimes before

647
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 1: a hook up, particularly if we don't know them very well,

648
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: which is often where I find that this hookup this

649
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: hookup culture sits. But I think it's just about practicing

650
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: really small, like sound bites of communication. You don't need

651
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: to sit them down and say this is my backstory,

652
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: this is my sex story, this is what I've gone through,

653
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: so this is what I want from you. Like it

654
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: doesn't need to doesn't need to be like that. I

655
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: think it's just about starting to have small dialogues around

656
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: saying I'm really excited to hook up with you. You know,

657
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: I prefer to take things slower whilst I get to

658
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: know you. So maybe the first few times we hang out,

659
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: like you know, we could just get to know each other.

660
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: If you want to slow things down with them, say that.

661
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: If you don't and you want to go right into it,

662
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: communicate with that with them. You know, right now, I'm

663
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: not looking for a relationship, So for me, this is

664
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: just going to be a hook up and I'm I'm

665
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: really excited. How do you feel about that? Because you

666
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: know we're coming at this from our anglers women, but

667
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: actually it might be that they want or don't want

668
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: a relationship. So just having that light touch point, I

669
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: think it's really important. And I guess, you know, after

670
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: the communication also brings us to the point of consent,

671
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 1: which I think consent is the sexiest thing in the world.

672
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: And I can't wait. I can't wait until the world

673
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: catches up with that belief that it's it should be

674
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,439
Speaker 1: the sexiest part of the conversation. You know, I want

675
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: to do this with you. How do you feel about that?

676
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: It's kind of but like Louise, it kind of is

677
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: so hot? Is this nice? And you're like, thank you

678
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: so much for asking me that. Like honestly, I when

679
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: I was like twenty, I swear this guy asked me

680
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: when we were hooking up. He said, does that feel

681
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: good for you? Tell me what I can do differently,

682
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: or like he said, does this feel good for you?

683
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: Tell me what you want me to do so it

684
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: can feel even better. And I was just saying this

685
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: was the first guy that had ever like communicated to

686
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: me in the bedroom because wow, like hook ups a simon, right,

687
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: we don't. Yeah, and I fell in love with him literally,

688
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, like you are you

689
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: are incredible? So I love it as well. I just

690
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: think like, don't be ashamed of it. Just be like

691
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: you use your voice in the bedroom, like even if

692
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: you have to start really small. M oh yeah, absolutely.

693
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: And I think also it's such a great kind of

694
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: like almost it's such a great vetting system to understand

695
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: where you want to go with this person. Something that

696
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 1: we've obviously said throughout this episode is you know, hookups

697
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: don't always mean having full blown intercourse and having sex,

698
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't always mean that. So if you're at

699
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: like that first stage where you've like you know, made

700
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: out with someone at a party, like having that kind

701
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: of like conversation to be like, oh where is this going?

702
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: Like what does this feel like? Is like so valuable

703
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: gets you on the same page and also just like

704
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: make sure that you're able to be like, Okay, this

705
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: person just come out of a long term relationship. Am

706
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: I going to be a rebound? If that's maybe that's

707
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: like maybe that's your specialty all power too, Like maybe

708
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: you have that healing energy, love it, but maybe you're

709
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: like I don't need to deal with that emotional baggage.

710
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: Let's move on. And it's also like a really good

711
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: way of like determining like if they are respectful of

712
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 1: that conversation, maybe you do want to move forward. If

713
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: they're not, that's a really great place to end things

714
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: when you're having a discussion around boundaries, barriers, history, if

715
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: you are having that or consent, like, it's such a

716
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: great place to start, right, you learn so much about someone. Yeah,

717
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: And I think also just on that point, like I

718
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 1: love this quote, which is basically something along the lines

719
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: of are you using are you using sex as the

720
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: honey or the glue? Like are you using it as something? Yeah,

721
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: to try and get them to like you, to love you,

722
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: to be interested in you. Like when I was younger,

723
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: I would lead with the sex and then hope they'd

724
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: full for me. Hope they decide they want a relationship.

725
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: Hope they decide like, oh, hey, this chick's cool, Like

726
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: I'm up for hanging out with her again. But what

727
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: I've learned as I've got older, is that it should

728
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: actually be the other way around, like you build the

729
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: foundations of something and then use the sex as like

730
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 1: the ad on, like Okay, yeah, we're now going to

731
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: have this incredible, pleasurable, powerful hookup. And I just think

732
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: it's so interesting to ask, like, oh yeah, like am

733
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: I leading with this hookup hoping for something more? Or

734
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: am I leading with this hook up? Because actually all

735
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: I want is a hook up? And again it ties

736
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,479
Speaker 1: back to the first point that I said, what's your truth?

737
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: Then you can be empowered, then you can communicate it,

738
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: and then you can go with it and have an

739
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: amazing experience of whatever that looks like, Oh wise words

740
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: from a wise woman. One more question, because I just

741
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 1: feel like we have to just quickly talk about this. Yes,

742
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: because we've talked about how sometimes you know, there are

743
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: these studies that have been done that show kind of

744
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: an emotional response that isn't always positive. Sometimes it's regret,

745
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: sometimes it's embarrassment. Any advice for what to do then, like,

746
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, you can't take back what's been done.

747
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can leave you in a place where you

748
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: just feel really worthless and useless and gross about yourself.

749
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: So where do you go from there. What do you

750
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: think your perspective on that is, Yes, So what I

751
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: love here is understanding the difference in the concepts of

752
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: like regret versus shame. And I'm sure you've touched on

753
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: this a lot on your podcast, but for me, they're

754
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 1: very different things. The regret is about a specific act

755
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: or experience, whereas the shame is about us, so something

756
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: like about the core of our being. So the regret

757
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: can be something like, oh, I regret having intercourse with them,

758
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: I regret hooking up with them, I regret having sets

759
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: with them, like I wish I hadn't done it that soon.

760
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: But the shame is deeper. It's I shouldn't have done

761
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: that because I gave my body away. I'm not worthy,

762
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: like I'm dirty, I'm empty, like. They go a lot deeper.

763
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: So they're both really difficult emotions to deal with. But

764
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: I would definitely just start with understanding that differentiation, and

765
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: that can then help you understand what comes next, because

766
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: if it's just regret, you can be like, Okay, why

767
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 1: am I regretful? Okay, because I was drunk, because I

768
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: was high, because I had you know, I did something

769
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: that I didn't want to do that I wouldn't have

770
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: done if I was in a state of mind. In

771
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: a different state of mind, you can be like, Okay, cool,

772
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: next time when I see this person, I'm not going

773
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: to drink or I'm going to drink less at the

774
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: next party, or I'm not going to smoke or whatever

775
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: that is. You can just make some like really rational

776
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: decisions to change and reduce the likelihood of the regret.

777
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: Now with the shame, it goes a lot deeper. And

778
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: I think that's something where therapy can just be so

779
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: helpful to work through because sometimes your friends can help

780
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: you process the regret, but it's really like a therapist

781
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: that can help you process the shame. You know where absolutely, yeah,

782
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 1: where did that develop? So I think my first point

783
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: here is like understanding that difference in regret and shame

784
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: can really help you navigate what comes next and navigate

785
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: those really difficult feelings. And is it a question of

786
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: self worth as well? I think that that is a

787
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: massive component and a massive emotional component of casual sex.

788
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: Is self worth something that we could do probably a

789
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: whole new, a whole other deep downe on it, But

790
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: it's not something that's going to be I think healed overnight.

791
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 1: I think also we have a habit of sometimes suppressing

792
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: unpleasant emotions, which isn't really going to help you on

793
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: the long run, because if you have left something casual,

794
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 1: if you've left a hook up feeling really bad about yourself,

795
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: doing that again it might be might it might make

796
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: the situation worse, or it might put you back into

797
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: this place of spiraling, in this place of shame. So

798
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: addressing it head on and actually taking time to process

799
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: the shame, like you spoke about, the deeper emotional response

800
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: and reaction that you're having will definitely benefit you in

801
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: the long run, rather than running away from the feeling,

802
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: hiding from the feeling, suppressing the feeling. Yeah, I think

803
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: it's so important your point around suppressing and then the

804
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 1: ongoing cycles, because if you don't process the uncomfortable emotions,

805
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: you just push them down and then what happens. Oh,

806
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: it gets to the weekend, you go out again, you

807
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 1: get drunk again, and the same cycles they just repeat.

808
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: And that was me, you know, for so many years

809
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 1: of partying in my early twenties, it would almost be

810
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: like every weekend or do something, well, not every weekends,

811
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: like that's that's like a lot of hookups. It wasn't

812
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: like that many hookups, but it would be you know,

813
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: cycles of doing things I regret and then and then

814
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: having to deal with the repercussions. So you're so right

815
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: about just feeling, and I think that not suppressing piece

816
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 1: is like a longer term piece, like learning how to feel,

817
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 1: learning how to process, Like it's a journey. I'm way

818
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 1: older than you. I'm still learning how to process and feel.

819
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: Like this morning before we came on here, I like

820
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,479
Speaker 1: watched a video of these elephants like stuck in the mud,

821
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: and the mum was like covering the baby with her trunk,

822
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: and I was like, I want to cry, and I

823
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: was like, don't be so stupid. And I was like, no, cry,

824
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: like if you're really sad that they thought they were

825
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: going to die there together, And the mum was like

826
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: had oh. And do you know what I stood in

827
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: my bedroom as a thirty something, you're a woman. I

828
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: just bulled my eyes out over these elephants and I

829
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: was like, this is this is doing the work. These

830
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: tiny moments where we want to cry over an elephant

831
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: on an Instagram story, it's doing the work. It's the

832
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: little things right, and it is something that I think

833
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: applies to everything. When you feel negative emotions, when you

834
00:44:55,239 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: feel complicated emotions, nuanced emotions, ambiguous emotions, the worst thing

835
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: you can do is actually not sit with them and

836
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: really stay in touch with how you feel, how you're

837
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: responding to a situation, so that you know, when we

838
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: talk about casual sex again, like if it's something that

839
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: maybe isn't for you, you don't want to figure that

840
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: out like three years down the track and then have

841
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: to deal with all of these what ifs and all

842
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: of this. I guess in this instance, regret and shame.

843
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: It would be so much more beneficial to you if

844
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: you really sat with your emotions and we're able to

845
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: process them at the moment. Obviously it's something that you

846
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: learn over time. We don't have like a checklist for you, unfortunately,

847
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: that would be worth a lot of money. But we

848
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: should put that together. Yeah, we really should next collab.

849
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. I think another thing that's really really important

850
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: to talk about here is, like we've spoken about the

851
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: longer term piece, like the shame, regret, suppression. I think

852
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: what's also so important is like understanding what you can

853
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 1: do in the twenty four forty eight seventy two hours

854
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: after the hookup, to help that oxytocin crash, to help

855
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: that help that coultasul Spike And I think that what

856
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 1: I've found is often after hookups that I regretted, I'd

857
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: feel very cold, like emotionally cold is how my therapist

858
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 1: describes it, and fearful and regretful, and I just would

859
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: not feel good. I would kind of just want to

860
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: isolate myself, or I'd go the other way and just

861
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: go out partying again. So I think it's about really acknowledging, like, Okay,

862
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: I don't feel good. What can I do in the

863
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: next twenty four or forty eight seventy two hours to

864
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: help balance those neurotransmitters. So for me, it's you know,

865
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 1: they say that or you shouldn't. You shouldn't numb on

866
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 1: the sofa with a Netflix and a pizza. But for me,

867
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: that is the best thing that I can do that

868
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: next day is to be like in the evening, to

869
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: be warm, to have a bath, to put on some

870
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: really comfy pajamas, to watch a really easy movie that's happy,

871
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: to have a pizza, like have something that's like warm

872
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 1: and feels a bit naughty and then to have an

873
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: early night. Like I always say, everything is more manageable

874
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: the next day, like after a good night's sleep. So

875
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: if you are feeling horrible emotions that day and if

876
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: you want to text them, okay, write it in your

877
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: notes right down, yes, yeah, what you want to say,

878
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: And I say this isn't suppression. I just say leave

879
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: it twenty four hours, and I guarantee you that when

880
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: you come back to that note the next day, after

881
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: a good night's sleep, after the alcohol or the drugs

882
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you know has been involved

883
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: in this encounter has won off. After the crash is

884
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: starting to come down, you'll look at that message and maybe, like,

885
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: if you're like me, you'll be like, thank goodness, I

886
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: didn't send that message, like, oh my goodness. And then

887
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: you can navigate it. In the forty eight to seventy

888
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: two hour mark, when you're feeling a little bit more balanced,

889
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: a little bit more calm, a bit more cared for,

890
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: you can text them and you can say appreciate your time.

891
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: The other night, it brought up some uncomfortable emotions for me.

892
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: So I don't think this is a situation that I

893
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: want to do with you again. But I do think

894
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: you're You're great, You're super handsome, Like I had so

895
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: much fun. You know, maybe that's it. You end it

896
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: there or whatever your truth, whatever your truth is, I

897
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: think you can just send a gentle message so you're

898
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: not silenced, so you're not suppressed. And I think that

899
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: that kind of seventy two hour window after a hookup,

900
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: you can be like, Okay, what can I do in

901
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: here that can make me feel better in the time

902
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: that if you take her cups badly is going to

903
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: make you feel the worst. And I'm going to say

904
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: I do this tip. I do this trick where when

905
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm feeling super emotional about something in my first instinct

906
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: is to like say something immediately in the moment, to

907
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: have my fury moment, to have my emotional outlet. I

908
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 1: write it down or I write it in my notes

909
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: up and I just leave it. I wait till I

910
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: had a clear head. And that's if you're someone who

911
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: really does struggle with kind of the emotional complications and

912
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: nuances of casual sex, of hook up culture, it might

913
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: be really really important. And you know, shout out to

914
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: the people who are still listening to this who were like,

915
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: I love casual sex. I hook up all the time.

916
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you, Like, girl, yes, go for it,

917
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: go for it. You're You're very lucky that you. Like

918
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: I kind of wish I could be that person. I

919
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: think I was trying to make myself that person for

920
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 1: a long time, but I'm just not so live your truth,

921
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: whatever that may be. Like you said, Louise, oh, I

922
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: love that, and I feel the same, you know, if

923
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: that's you, I'm so envious, Like I wish like I

924
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 1: could have had more just like fun sexual encounters because

925
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: by the age of like twenty five, I was like,

926
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. Like I really from the

927
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: age of twenty five onwards, I really slept with like

928
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 1: four people because it was like I only slept with

929
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: boyfriends thereafter. And sometimes I was like, oh, I there

930
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,399
Speaker 1: were five years in my twenties where like I could

931
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: have had way more promiscuous fun. So if that's if

932
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: that's you, enjoy it for me and Jemma, because we're

933
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: not doing it as much as you and I love it.

934
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: We do need more empowerment in the world. And if

935
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: you're in that empowered category where it feels great for you.

936
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: You love it, then kudos to you. And I love

937
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: that for you. Yeah, I honestly do. And it's like

938
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: that saying, right, like what is empowerment might not always

939
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: fear and feel empowering, but if it is empowering to you, like, yeah, kudos, kudos, Yeah, kudos.

940
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: I've literally never said the word kudos before, but kudos.

941
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: I know it's a beautiful word, isn't it. Well, yeah, kudos. Well,

942
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 1: I want to say kudos to Louise for coming on.

943
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: Look at that. What a smooth transition that was. I

944
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: really hope that if you're still listening, you have very

945
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: mentally enjoyed this episode. Louise, thank you so much for

946
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: your wisdom and your kind words. Oh my pleasure, and

947
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: I'm just grateful that you've allowed me to bring a

948
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: bit of my real life into your incredible science backed episodes.

949
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: I think you give everyone exactly what they need to learn,

950
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: and I just love this little bit of human human

951
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: touch and lived experience. So I have really loved doing

952
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 1: this with you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it was

953
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: honestly amazing and probably one of my favorite episodes. I

954
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: will also just give you a plug if you you're

955
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: not listening to Louise's podcast, the Open House Podcast. It

956
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: is incredible, It is amazing. There are so many discussions

957
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: much like this one that are available there and that

958
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: you should absolutely go and listen to if you want

959
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: to expand your mind, you want to hear more information.

960
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: I felt this was just the collab that needed to happen.

961
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: It was the episode that needed to happen. So thank

962
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: you so much once again, and if you did enjoy

963
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: this episode, please feel free to leave a five star

964
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening right now.

965
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: It really does help the show to grow and reach

966
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: new people. Feel free to share this episode with a

967
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: friend who might need to hear it. You never know,

968
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: and if you want to be more involved with the community,

969
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: you want to know what's coming up, what guests we

970
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: have on the show, merch things like that. Please follow

971
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: us at that Psychology Podcast and have a lovely, lovely week.

972
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: We will be back soon with another episode.