1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot Com. Join Josh 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: and Chuck, the guys who bring you stuff you should know, 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: as they take a trip around the world to help 6 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: you get smarter in a topsy TRV economy. Check out 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: the all new super Stuff Guide to the Economy from 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot Com, available now exclusively on iTunes. Hi, There, everybody, 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Polette. 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: I'm an editor here at how stuff works dot com 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: and as usual I have sitting next to me senior 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: writer Jonathan Strickland. How all right? How do you? And 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: today we thought we'd try something brand new. You know, 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: we've done a couple of different sort of theme podcasts 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: in the past, and this time it's yeah, okay, a couple. Well, 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: we've done a couple of you know, Christmas, we've done 17 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: the New Years, We've done focus on the innovators. This 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: time we're doing a listener mail round up. Yes, let's 19 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: get along, little dogies. So this first listener mail comes 20 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: from John from Medford, New York. Guys can you tell 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: me if there is an easy way to track the 22 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: GPS in someone's phone. I've seen all sorts of services 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: and expensive equipment out there, but there must be some 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: inexpensive or easy way to it. I think he means 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah. UM, listen here, John, We've learned 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,919 Speaker 1: the hard way about this topic. UM. So GPS receivers. 27 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: The key word in that is receivers. A receiver receives signals. 28 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: It does not transmit signals. So if you're in a 29 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: with a phone is a little different. But let's say 30 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: you just have a regular GPS receiver. That receiver is 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: not indsmitting any data to any other device or service. Um. 32 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: What it's doing is it's acting like essentially in antenna 33 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: and and and there's a computer in there that analyzes 34 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: the data, which then tells you where you are. But 35 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 1: it's just receiving signals that are being sent out by 36 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: GPS satellites. And these things are just sending They're just 37 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: bombarding the Earth with signals, radio signals. That's it. Um. 38 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: It's like any other radio tower. It's not directed specifically 39 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 1: at any individual. It's just hitting a specific area of 40 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: the world. Yes, and that's how that's how the receiver 41 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: tells it goes you know, hey, I seem to be 42 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: this far from satellite an't seen to be that far 43 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: from satellite B. I should be right about here exactly, 44 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: although usually it's also there's a satellite see but simplifying 45 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: sites so um so yeah, but yeah, what it's doing 46 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: is it's taking these signals and it's comparing the time 47 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: stamps and by telling how how long it takes the 48 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: signal to get to the receiver. That's that's how it 49 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: kind of figures out where on Earth you must be, 50 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: because it's like there's only one spot on Earth where 51 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: this would happen, so you have to be here. So 52 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that John wants to find Carmen san Diego. Yes, 53 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: if Carmen san Diego has a GPS receiver and no 54 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: other device on her, you're just gonna have to follow 55 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: those clues like the rest of us. Um my guess 56 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: is she's probably stealing Beethoven. But uh, oh my gosh, 57 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: I can't believe I can't even remember anything about Carmen 58 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: san Diego. You know, I just do it out there 59 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: is a one time or all I have to say 60 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: is rock on rockapella. So anyway, the so so just 61 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, the current copyright holders are going to be 62 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: all over this. No no, that's always said was rockafella. 63 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: We didn't sing the song. We're fine. So yeah. The 64 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: thing is, I'm not quite sure why you want to 65 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: track somebody else's GPS and I'm not gonna ask, right, 66 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: that's tricky. Let's play. Let's play the game. Let's assume 67 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: that whomever it is you wish to try wants you 68 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: to be able to find him or her, because that 69 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: is a lot easier to talk about than you have 70 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: an interest in a particular person and you want to 71 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: be able to follow them and they not know about it, 72 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: because that's kind of creepy. So John, we figure you're 73 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: a stand up guy. Uh And so let's say that 74 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: you know, you and your buddy you want to you 75 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: want a way to be able to tell where where 76 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: people are so that you know, you can, like how 77 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: I see that he's in the mall too, I can 78 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: go by and just say, hey, uh well, the GPS 79 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: receiver by itself is not going to do that. However, 80 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: there are devices that use other methods of distributing information 81 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: that can help you, For instance, there are smartphones that 82 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,559 Speaker 1: have a GPS receiver, and of course a smartphone also 83 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: is a phone, I mean, otherwise it's not a phone, right, 84 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: So that makes sense. Right. So, in the way the 85 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: smartphone can send out signals via either cellular or maybe 86 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: even radio signals like WiFi. UM, that could send data 87 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: about your location to other people. And there are plenty 88 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: of services that do use this kind of method. Oh yeah, 89 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,559 Speaker 1: they'll they will absolutely do that and do it for free, 90 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: you know, if you're if you're willing to spend the 91 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: battery it takes in order for it to constantly update 92 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: your location through your cellular provider. Um. You can install 93 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: one of many many applications to your smartphone that will 94 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: allow you to do this, and and some of them 95 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: don't even use the GPS receivers. Some of them just 96 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: tulate triangulate through the cell towers. Right now, that's not 97 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: as accurate your Wi Fi networks networks, which is even 98 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: less accurate, right, so you can kind of in those cases, 99 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: you'll just get sort of a general location. UM, you 100 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: won't be able to pinpoint someone's location, so you can't 101 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: send the murder bots to you know, the corner of 102 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: fifth and Maine. You're gonna be like, um, search this 103 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: three block area and then find my victim. Hold off Ninja's. 104 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: I can't send in just yet, Right, you should just 105 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: send the pirates anyway, because they'll maraud through the entire 106 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: town there. You know, Ninja's are very precise and Uh, anyway, 107 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: we're getting off topic. So the if you have a 108 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: phone that uses the sort of uh, the sort of applications, 109 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: then you can keep track of someone if that person 110 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: has installed those applications on his or her phone and 111 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,559 Speaker 1: usually designates you as someone who can look at that information. Yeah, 112 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: some of them, some of them broadcast the information to 113 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: the general public, but others are more like there's a network, 114 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: like a kind of a network of friends like you 115 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: would have on Twitter, where just people within that network 116 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: can see where you are at any given time. Yeah, 117 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: I mean there are there are other devices too. There 118 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: aren't phones like the Spark Nano from Lightning gps UM. 119 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: It's a little gadget. It's about size of nine volt battery. Um. 120 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: It cost two and forty five dollars a month for 121 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: the service, which is probably the expensive thing you were 122 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: talking about. Uh, And this this actually got a lot 123 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: of press. I saw lots and lots of articles about 124 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: this one. Must have good pr folks anyway, UM, basically, 125 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: what it does is it, you know, lets you track somebody. 126 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: You sign up for it and it sends information back 127 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: to the service and says, hey, this person is at 128 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: this location. UM. One application you could use this for 129 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: is say you had a student latchkey kid. Uh, you know, 130 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: your son or daughter, and you wanted to know are 131 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: they gonna be okay? You know, are they going to 132 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: make it home because they're walking home, They're gonna let 133 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: themselves in when they get there. Well, it actually will 134 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: tell you if they hit the safe zone. So you 135 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: can designate this location, this GPS location as a safety zone. UM, 136 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: and it will Basically you can go on the website 137 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: and go, oh yeah, Chester made at home, Fine, everything's 138 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: all right. There is a panic button too. If something happens, 139 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: it can summon help. So I mean that's the exact 140 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: kind of thing that it could be used. But um, 141 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: similar devices have been used by law enforcement authorities. Sure, 142 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: and uh, you know they could be attached to a 143 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: car there even UM, there are other applications to athletes 144 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: use them and their coaches can tell how fast they're 145 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: going because it's using GPS information to see, well, they 146 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: made it this far in this amount of time. Um. 147 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: There's all kinds of stuff that this is being used for. Uh. 148 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: And you know there are questions when the police use 149 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: it over whether or not it's a violation of privacy 150 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: and things like that. As a matter of fact, there's 151 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: a case right here in Georgia where they're considering passing 152 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: a law that would make it a violation privacy for 153 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: anybody other than like the owner of a vehicle or 154 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: you know, the police to track a GPS like that. 155 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: What would Sting want with all that information? Oh, the 156 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: municipal police, the cops, you know, those people that they 157 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: have the show on TV about don't stand so close 158 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: to me. Um. But one of the for example, one 159 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: of the applications we talked about earlier that a good 160 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: example would be the Google My Location which I have 161 00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: on my HTC G one Google Android phone. And yeah, 162 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: that one triangulates through cell towers and people can see 163 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: if they're added to your network, they can see where 164 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: you are. I don't have anyone added to my network, 165 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: so I only see me. And it's kind of sad, 166 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: but I know where I am, which, by the way, 167 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: came in handy when I was walking around other cities. 168 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but things like bright kite, Yeah, who's fire Eagle, 169 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: there's They are all kinds of services out there. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, 170 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: the thing is you can use these for, uh, for 171 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: all kinds of great social networking applications if you really 172 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: want to. I mean, you can open up your location 173 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: to the general public and people will find you and go, hey, 174 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: I'm down the street you want to meet up for 175 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: a drink, And if you're willing to meet a complete 176 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: stranger who randomly said, hey, I found you through your 177 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 1: GPS location and I know where exactly where you are, 178 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: and then of course there's a fine. There was a 179 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: boost mobile you had the where You're where you at campaign, 180 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, that was the same sort of thing and 181 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: has triangulated and sent that information to people within your 182 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: network so that that way they would know where you 183 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: were at any given time. UM. I don't know that 184 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: I would necessarily add people to mind network. I don't 185 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: know that I want people to know where I am 186 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: all the time. Uh, I'm pretty sure they don't want 187 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: to know where I am all the time, So I 188 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: don't see why they would add me, to be perfectly honest, 189 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: unless they just wanted to have fair warning before I 190 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: shoved up like belling the cat. That that I totally understand, 191 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: But I hope that answers your question. Really, what it 192 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 1: comes down to is, if the person wants to share 193 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: that information, it's easy. If the person does not want 194 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: to share that information, it probably shouldn't be looking into it. 195 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: And it's not easy, and it's probably not going to 196 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: be legal, especially if this uh, this new law sets 197 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: a precedent if it gets passed, and should say, because 198 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: it is still not passed. Um, And I'm not quite 199 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: sure how you would steal a signal. I mean, what 200 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about there is the law enforcement authorities or 201 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: private investigators or whomever clipping a GPS device to you. 202 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: So I mean that's one thing. Stealing somebody else's signal. 203 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: I'm not you'd have to command near the frequency. It 204 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: would only make sense if you're talking about like like 205 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: the parent of a child and you enable this feature 206 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: on a phone and the child is unable to disable 207 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: the feature. That would make sense. You know that's true, 208 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: all right? Well, then, uh, I guess that will move 209 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: us on to our second email. Okay, I'm not gonna 210 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: do the warning signal this time, all right? So this 211 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: comes from Ben m Hey, guys, love your podcast and 212 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: all the things I learned on my daily walks. I 213 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: was coming home from work the other day and thought 214 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: of an issue that I thought might make a cool 215 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: podcast for you. A lot of credit cards these days 216 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: have a little square gold chip on the front of 217 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: the card. What is that for and what what does 218 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: it do that a regular credit card doesn't? As well 219 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: as a couple of years back, there was talk about 220 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: innovations to credit cards and debit cards for that matter, 221 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: that stores may soon be able to scan your card 222 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: and your purchases barcodes as you leave the store and 223 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: debit the amount off your card without you having to 224 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: go through a checkout at all. Does any of this 225 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: ring a bell with something that you two have heard 226 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: of or does it make no sense at all? If 227 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: you could find anything or know anything, I would love 228 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: to hear it in a future podcast. Thanks guys. Ben. 229 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: Well Ben, if you're in Europe, you've been using this 230 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: for a while, so I'm guessing you are one of 231 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: our fellow Americans, because over in Europe and other parts 232 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: of the world, the this is not an unusual thing 233 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: at all. In fact, it's pretty much common practice, almost 234 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: to the point now where it can be problematic for 235 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: an American traveling overseas to purchase things using an old 236 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: fashioned credit card. UM. And this this comes down to 237 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: four letters. Uh. Those would be r F I, N 238 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: D radio frequency identification and Uh. Basically, the chip that 239 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: you're talking about is UM is a little piece of 240 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: transistor material that circuits, yes, and in grace circuit that 241 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: carries material. And they can be made of a lot 242 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: of different things. They can actually have a little computer 243 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: on board, although those are you know, kind of expensive 244 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: and and they're usually found in things other than credit 245 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: and debit cards. We should go ahead and first say 246 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: that these smart chips is kind of the common term 247 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: for them. But these smart chips can be found in 248 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: all sorts of different cards, not just credit cards or 249 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: debit cards. UM. For example, Palette and I both use 250 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: one on a daily basis just to get to work 251 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: because we take the public transportation system here in Atlanta 252 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: called Marta, and they rely on something called a breeze card, 253 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: and the Breeze card has the this sort of smart 254 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: chip technology in it, and that's what allows you to 255 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: go through the low turnstiles and it Uh the ones 256 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: that we have keep track of what date they were activated, 257 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: and then uh others might keep track of how many 258 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: trips are on the card. But that's the same sort 259 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: of thing. It's this this technology. You put it to 260 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: a scanner, the scanner identifies the card, it knows whether 261 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: or not the card is valid, and then it activates 262 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: or doesn't at debate the turnstyle. And the Reefs card 263 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: is made of paper. So if you are in Atlanta 264 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: or if you have a transportation authority that uses a 265 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: similar card, you can hold it up to the light 266 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: and you'll see the wiring inside of it. It's kind 267 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: of it's kind of funny. Um, but that sort of 268 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: isn't exactly what you were talking about. I did think 269 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: of another application that we use every day. Both of 270 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: us use a g S M cell phone. Oh, yes, 271 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: that's true, and uh those come with little itty bitty 272 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: smart cards. If you have a cell phone from a 273 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: GSM provider, uh such as T Mobile or a T 274 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: n T, you'll see they came with a big credit 275 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: card sized thing, and generally they break out this itty 276 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: bitty smart chip and they stick at your phone, and 277 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: that chip is what allows the phone to communicate with 278 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: a network. So you might think, okay, well, if I 279 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: can get a credit card that has this chip in 280 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: it and you can just sort of, you know, wave 281 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: it in front of a scanner, um and then purchase something, 282 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: how safe is that? Well, if that were all there 283 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: were to it, that's not safe at all, because there 284 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: are actually devices out there that can record the signature 285 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: of and of one of these smart chips and sort 286 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: of create a copy of it. It's called spoofing. UM. 287 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: And if that were all there were to it, where 288 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: you just had to spoof the signature of this card, 289 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: that would be a nightmare, uh, because it would mean 290 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: that someone could easily steal someone's credit card number essentially 291 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: and go on a shopping spree. H. Fortunately, most of 292 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: the credit and debit cards that use this technology over 293 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: in Europe also require the user to enter a pen number. 294 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: So it's the chip and pen system or pin and chip. 295 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: I think, and uh, you know, the card says okay, 296 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: this is this is what lets me buy stuff. The 297 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: pin number verifies it and then you can purchase whatever. 298 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: So that way, if someone just were to accidentally leave 299 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: their card behind and I don't know a restaurant that 300 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: they frequent way too often, like me, UM, you wouldn't 301 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: have to worry about someone just picking it up and 302 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: then going out and buying tons and tons of stuff 303 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: because they also need your pin number before they could 304 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: do it. So it's actually fairly secure. It's not you know. 305 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: When I first heard about it, I was like, what 306 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: keeps anyone from just copying the signal and just going 307 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: crazy and you know, running up and down Oxford Street 308 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: buying everything they can. I mean, that's that's the thing. 309 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: It's it's ultra convenient to uh, to imagine, and and 310 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: there are some places in the United States that do that. 311 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: I can think of a couple of gas companies where 312 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: you can buy gas using their proprietary smart chip UM. 313 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: And there are some fast food companies I could think 314 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: of too that that read the cards UM, JP, Morgan 315 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: Chase in American Express have had smart chips in their 316 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: cards for years. As a matter of fact, the Blue Card, 317 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: I remember the ads saying that that chip protects you 318 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: when you go online. I was going, yeah, but that's 319 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: an notified chip. I'm not sure how that protects you 320 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: when you're plugging the numbers in and your um and 321 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: somebody writes and ask I'll have to find out. But 322 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: in the meantime, UM, we're just gonna skip right over. Yeah, 323 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: we're gonna skip right over it because I don't get it. Uh. 324 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: The other thing to keep in mind, um, okay, so 325 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: that's ultraconvenient, and it can be very secure if you 326 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: combine it with something like a pin. But okay, so 327 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: what you're talking about, the shopping thing, you've got to 328 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: plug in. In order for that system to work. You 329 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: have to plug in an r f I D chip 330 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: on every single product, and that can be expensive. Well, 331 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: not only that, but you also have to create, you know, 332 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: build in our f I D readers, scanners and all 333 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: of those businesses. That's the main reason why we haven't 334 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: seen this in a wide range rollout in the United States. 335 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: It's because it would be really expensive to replace all 336 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: that equipment, and and that's what's holding people back. That's 337 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: what's holding back. You know, the banks and financial institutions 338 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: are are really slow to adopt this technology just because 339 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: it's a huge headache to try and convert everything over um. 340 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: That also means it's a huge headache for anyone traveling 341 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: overseas because we're using the old magnetic strip on our 342 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: credit cards and debit cards, and a lot of the 343 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: places in Europe have switched over so that it only 344 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: reads the smart ship. That you put the card in 345 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: a reader and it it detects the smart ship and 346 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: then prints out your receipt. Um. Well, if you don't 347 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: have a smart chip, it can't do that. And some 348 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: of them don't have the magnetic readers anymore for the strip, 349 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: so you have to see if they have one of 350 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: those old credit card carbon copy machines in the back. 351 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: But uh, I mean it's that's a that's a problem, 352 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: and hopefully the United States will eventually switch over to 353 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 1: the smart chip technology to at least make it easier 354 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: for global travelers like you know yours truly, I like 355 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,719 Speaker 1: to I like to jet set. Well, you know, if 356 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: you do like to jet set your your passport if 357 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: you get a new passport, the United States does have 358 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: a smart ship in that passport, which also freaks people 359 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: out because they have to deal with the idea that 360 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: somebody might be able to scan their identity just by 361 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: walking nearby with an antenna. And there are there are 362 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: a lot of other people who I mean, they're they're 363 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: extremes that you can take this to. Like some people 364 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: have actually gone to the trouble to have their r 365 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: f I d uh chips implanted in their bodies. Um. 366 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: I read an article about a guy who actually keyed 367 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: his motorcycle with an r f I D chip, So 368 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: all he had to do was put his hand on 369 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: it and it would it would function as the key. 370 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: He can repress the starter and it would read the 371 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: r f I D chip in his hand and know 372 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: it was him and start the engine. I just wanted 373 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: that story to end with. And then the motorcycle was 374 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: stolen and we now call the guy lefty. No, I 375 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: wasn't going to go there. There are also people who 376 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: see biblical interpretations of this and say this is the 377 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: you know, mark of the beast you can't do the 378 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: business with. Regardless of whether you believe it or not. 379 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting to think about because you went, well, yeah, 380 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: I mean if they did away with other uh, you know, 381 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: with other means of paying for stuff, and I had 382 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: to have the number implanted in me. Wow, that's kind 383 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: of creepy, you know that that you could see that 384 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: the how people would make that connection. I don't necessarily 385 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: believe that that, you know, is the case, but I 386 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: think it's you know, it makes sense that someone would 387 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: make that connection, sure, is what I said. I So 388 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: there are people, there are people who are you know, 389 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: seeing this in all sorts of different in all sorts 390 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: of different ways, and people who are making wallets that 391 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: are you know, basically restricting the signal from being transmitted 392 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: outside your your wallets so that if someone bumps you 393 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: with an R F I D reader that they can't 394 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: steal that information off the chip. And I have heard 395 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: that it is actually harder to spoof the information off 396 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: of the smart chip than it is the magnetic um 397 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: essentially magnetic tape, the magnetic strip that we have on 398 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: our cards right now. So theoretically it's that would be good. Yeah, 399 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: theoretically it's easier to actually copy the technology we're using 400 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: now than it is to copy the smart chips. You 401 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: just have to have the right equipment to and we've 402 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: we've seen this happen. We've seen you know, uh, rings 403 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: of credit card thieves who had installed software on various 404 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: UM scanners in different stores, and they were collecting credit 405 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: card numbers and debit card numbers and pen numbers as well. 406 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: And UM, so, I mean it sounds at first when 407 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: you start talking about wireless you always think, oh, well, 408 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: that's automatically less secure than, uh, than any other like 409 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: a hard copy method or whatever, something that's not necessarily wireless. Uh. 410 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: In this case, UM, I think we can say that 411 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 1: the smartship technology is at least as secure, or if 412 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: you prefer, as insecure as the dominant technology in the 413 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: United States. Yes, you tse it. It It will completely fall 414 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: to pieces because it's insecure. It took me a second. 415 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: That was like a little joke grenade. I hope I 416 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: jumped on that for the rest of you. Um, I'm done. Yeah, 417 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't really have anything else to add 418 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: to it, and I don't have any more emails to 419 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: go through for this for this episode. Okay, So we 420 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: hope to do more of these in the future. We 421 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: very much like to um respond to readers. So if 422 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: you have a question, if it's a short one, that's okay, 423 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: we can group them together like we have here. If 424 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: it's all longer answer them. We'll we'll tackle that as well. 425 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: You could write us at tech stuff at how stuff 426 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: works dot com. And remember we have blogs up. You 427 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: can follow our blogging exploits. Chris and I blog once 428 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: per day, and uh, we have lots of interesting things 429 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: to say there that we don't necessarily cover in the podcast, 430 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: so check those out too. You can go to house 431 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com look in the right hand side. 432 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: You'll see the links there. And of course, if you 433 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: want to read more about r F I D technology 434 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: and other things like credit card technology, we have articles 435 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: up on the site that that how stuff works dot 436 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: com and we will talk to you again really soon. 437 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 438 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: how staff works dot com and be sure to check 439 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: out the new tech stuff blog now on the house 440 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: stufforks homepage. Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand 441 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: twelve camera. It's ready, are you