1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here Welcome back to Killers amongst Us, 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. The disappearance of 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: a gorgeous teen girl, Sarah's Stern, her car found abandoned 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: late at night on a remote bridge, New Jersey, with 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: US Sarah's dad, Michael Stern, local reporter on the story 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: from the get go Alex Napoliello, Lead detective on the case, 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: Brian weiss Brott. Also with US renowned Hollywood psycho analyst's 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall. Last week we ended with police body 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: him footage as they searched the area and Sarah's home, 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: looking desperately for clues. What they find is even more 11 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: of a puzzle when put together. Could it lead to 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: multiple possibilities? Did she jump from the side of that bridge? 13 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: Did she run away? Or was their foul play? And 14 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: if so, Where's Sarah's body? As investigators go on to 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: sift through the clues, the town gathers to search for Sarah, 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: a popular, beautiful, happy, go lucky member of their very 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: tight knit community. Let's pick up the story. This is 18 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: a small town where travels fast. The cops know obviously 19 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people in this small town. They have 20 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: a car parked on the bridge, and they quickly find 21 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: out it's normally driven by a nineteen year old by 22 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: the name of Sarah Stern. Phone rang around three o'clock 23 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: in the morning. You know anything about the car? You know, 24 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: gray Oldsmobile, And I said, yeah, my daughter drives that car. 25 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace killers amongst us. A million things go through 26 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: your mind. You were in Florida. Yeah, we drove from 27 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: Florida back to New Jersey. Three thirty four o'clock in 28 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: the morning. Is now traffic, so he can drive pretty quick. 29 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: Sarah Stern was very well known to the community. The 30 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: fact that her family was very well known. Sarah was 31 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: a kid that everybody knew, she was always around, kind 32 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: of threw everybody off with that car just being left 33 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: at the top of that bridge, with absolutely no good 34 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: rhyme or reason as to why no one knew where 35 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: Sarah was and they didn't know why they couldn't get 36 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: in touch with her. She was attached to her phone 37 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: like most nineteen year olds are, and there would be 38 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: no reason for why her phone was off and she 39 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: wasn't taking calls, taking text messages on a Friday night, 40 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: no answer on her phone. Police then immediately started investigating, 41 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: and this becomes not just an abandoned car on a bridge, 42 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: but a missing person. There's this nineteen year old girl 43 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: who has gone off the grid and no one knows why. 44 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,239 Speaker 1: Where is Sarah Stern? A gorgeous nineteen year old girl. 45 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: Oh if you could see her, you know what I mean. Beautiful, long, 46 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: dark silky hair, big, big brown eyes, a perfect smile, 47 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: everybody's sweetheart. She's an athlete, she's an artist, she's a photographer, 48 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: she makes good gray. She's the apple of her dad's eye. 49 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: She lived through the death of her mom, who battled cancer, 50 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: just to stay here on earth with her. Sarah Stern 51 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: goes missing. Her car found on an obscure bridge early 52 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: early morning hours like three am. Why Dad, Michael Stern 53 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: on a Florida vacation, just one week he's gone and 54 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: he gets this call, your daughter's car has been found abandoned. 55 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: He gets in the car three am and starts the 56 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: drive back to the little shore town in New Jersey. 57 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: You just heard our friend Amy Roebuck at twenty twenty 58 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: describing the call Sarah's dad gets in the middle of 59 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: the night. Well, once they determine that she is not 60 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: in that car and there's no trace of her on 61 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: the bridge, they go straight to her home. Listen, there's 62 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: a teenager that's supposed to be driving it's parked on 63 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: top of that bridge. Or getting no answer at the house, 64 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: I have an open door at the house. I'm light up. 65 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: Go inside and make sure everything is kosher here. I 66 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: don't want to make sure we don't have a jumper. 67 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: Anounce yourself a little Well, that's the same bours. Hello, Hello, 68 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: that's says police go to her house. The back door 69 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: is open and the lights are on and there is 70 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: no sign of Sarah. Hello. That is actual body am 71 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: footage of cops entering Sarah's home. Also our friend Amy 72 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: Roebock with me now Sarah's father Michael Stern, along with 73 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: a crime and court reporter from New Jersey dot com 74 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: and star ledger Alex Napoliello, Doctor Bethany Marshall's psycho analyst 75 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: from LA you can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall 76 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: dot com. And Detective Brian Weisbrot from Mammoth County Prosecutor's Office. 77 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: To Sarah's dad, Michael, I want to hear through your 78 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: eyes a description of the home, because I hear the 79 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: cops rushing in, and yes, cops sound rough and tumble, 80 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: like they're ready to take you down, and Tay's are 81 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: you at the first glance? And there's a reason for that. 82 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: For all they know, Sarah is in the home being 83 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: held by kidnappers that are armed. They never know what 84 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: they're going to encounter when they go into a home 85 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: like that. But when I think of cops breaking down 86 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: the door of our home with the twins inside, it's 87 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: a whole different can of worms. So tell me about 88 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: your home, Michael, Tell me about where they thought Sarah. Maybe, 89 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: well that was the thing they were looking for Sarah. 90 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: Nobody seemed to know where she was, so that was 91 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: that was the biggest problem. Nobody knew you know, whether 92 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: she was with somebody or you know where she went 93 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: or what happened, or why the car was up on 94 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: the bridge. There was no answer. Tell me about your home, 95 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: single story to story. When you walk in the front door, 96 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: is that wooden? Is it slate? Is it brick? Is 97 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: at tabby? What is it? What did cops encounter when 98 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: they went in as their front porches their driveway. Tell 99 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: me about it is that a condo is an apartment, 100 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: a single family house, split level. You walk in the 101 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: living room, dining room, kitchen, TV room, and bedrooms upstairs. 102 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: It's basically basically it standard nineteen fifty in the house. 103 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: I've looked at videos inside your home and everything is 104 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: perfectly in order, and I'm just imagining the cops going 105 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: in there. Now. This is one thing that really stuck 106 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: out to me like a sore thought. The only thing 107 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: home is her dog Buddy, who she loved more than anything, 108 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: who normally has his run of the house. And now 109 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: when they went to go look for her, he was 110 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: locked in his cream. But the dogs on a cage, 111 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: So somebody put the dog in a cage. Hello, where's 112 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: the bartman? She had so much love in her heart 113 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: for her friends and her family and her dog Buddy. 114 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: She loved that dog more than anybody I've ever known 115 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: to love an animal before. Well, I guess that two's 116 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: gonna have to figure out what their mindset of this 117 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: kid is. We'll see dog treats anywhere, dude. Maybe I'm 118 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: looking for the doggee, good dog for the doge call. 119 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: We went through the whole house. There is nobody home. 120 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: Our friend Amy Roebuck at twenty twenty joining me right now, 121 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: Alex Napoliello joining us. Alex described the neighborhood for me, 122 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why that one fact about Buddy 123 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: is driving me crazy. We have a cat, a dog, 124 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: and two guinea pigs. The guinea pigs stay in their 125 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: luxury cage and my daughter and son's room. The dog, 126 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: when he's in the house is either with us or 127 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: he's in a crate because he will t t. The 128 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: cat has the run of the house except where the 129 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: guineas are because she will eat them. So if someone 130 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: came in our home and they found the cat and 131 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: the dog in the crate locked up, and us gone 132 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: in our car off parts somewhere else, you'd know something 133 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: was very, very wrong. So let me just start with 134 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: the home and the dog. Alex tell me about the home. Yeah, 135 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: the home is located in Neptune City. Neptune City is 136 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: a tight knit community where everyone knows each other's names. 137 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: It's nestled in between Belmar and Asbury Park is just 138 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: a couple miles north and most people when they hear 139 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: the name Asbury Park, they think Bruce Springsteen. So this 140 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: is a place that people know they're familiar with. You 141 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: could drive, you know, five ten minutes and you'll drive 142 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: through several different beach towns if you start from Bellmar 143 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: and head to Asbury and Neptune City is one of 144 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: these towns. So Sarah's dog, Buddy, she loved Buddy. People 145 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: who knew Sarah automatically knew that you would have Buddy 146 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: by her side a lot. She used to take him 147 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: for walks on the beach in Bradley, So the two 148 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: were a familiar Satan town, you know. To doctor Bethany Marshall, 149 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: psychoanalyst joining us, Doctor Bethany, this is always I remember 150 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: when I would walk into any crime scene, and there 151 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: have been thousands of them now and sometimes and it's 152 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: not always the case. As you can imagine, I walk 153 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: into the scene and it strikes me how lovely the 154 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: home is. And I don't mean expensive or a mansion. 155 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: I mean you smell good smells there, like something was 156 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: just cooked, and the beds are made, and there are 157 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 1: pictures of the family sitting out and you see evidence 158 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: of a happy home where you feel like you could 159 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: just walk in and sit down at the supper table 160 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: and be welcomed. Yet you know that something is wrong, 161 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: and the dichotomy is something that was always very jarring 162 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: to me. Alan Crime says, well, when you say that 163 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: something's wrong, I mean what's wrong to me is that 164 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: the dog is in the cage and a nineteen year 165 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: old is missing. And we all have that sixth sense. 166 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: We have what I would say right brain thinking. Right 167 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: brain thinking is when you use your gut, you use 168 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: your instinct to survey a room. And it's the kind 169 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: of thinking that's outside the world of symbolism meaning speech. 170 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: It's in the world of feelings. It's in the world 171 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: of emotions. And I can imagine I'm not a detective, 172 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: but a detective, and especially a father with the father's instinct, 173 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 1: would walk into a room like that and know immediately 174 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: that something is a miss Joining me right now from 175 00:11:54,440 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: MoMA County Prosecutor's Office, Detective Brian Wife, Detective wisprot thank 176 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: you for being with us. You know why is it? 177 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: Detective And I don't know if you've seen this over 178 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: the years. You've been a detective, and that's no easy 179 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: position to obtain. Typically you have to go through years 180 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: and years of beating the streets as a beat cop, 181 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: and then you move up, then you move up, finally 182 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: you hit the big time with detective. It always seemed 183 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: to me that is just at the exact moment when 184 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: you don't want something to happen, that's when it happens. 185 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: For instance, the dad, Michael Stern, who was with us 186 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: right now, he finally takes a vacation, he's gone one 187 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: week and Sarah goes missing. Is it that way across 188 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: the boards, It's always at a time, seemingly when you 189 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: feel helpless and there's nobody to give you any answers 190 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: and you're just out there trying to figure it out. Again, 191 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: that's absolutely the case. We certainly would have been in 192 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: a different position had mister Stern and been home, because 193 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: she likely would have been able to repute us with 194 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: information as to as to where Sarah, you know, was 195 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: earlier in the day, who she had planned to be with. 196 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: We did have Sarah's friend across the street that had 197 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: an opportunity to see her, and some of the folks 198 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: at the bank in the area that saw her too. 199 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: Michael Stern, this is Sarah's dad. Tell me about Buddy 200 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: and why it was just so bizarre that Sarah would 201 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: ever leave. Because what struck me and nobody had to 202 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: tell me this. Michael, I saw that there was a 203 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: cookie jar, like a human cookie jar, a ceramic cookie jar. 204 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: I have one, and it's a bewitched would bewitched on top. 205 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: And they look in the cookie jar. The cops do 206 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: on the body cam and they take out doggie gourmet 207 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: doggie treats and they give it to Buddy who's locked 208 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: in a cage. And it struck me. She's got these 209 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: gourmet doggie treats and a ceramic cookie jar for people, 210 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: and they're right there by the dog. Nobody would go 211 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: to all that trouble to take care of a dog 212 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: that well and leave it locked up. Tell me about Buddy, Michael, Well, 213 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: Buddy was the you know, family pett He was ten 214 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: years old at the time, but as the American fox 215 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: Town weighed about one hundred pounds, and Sarah's best friend. 216 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: And Sarah considered Buddy, you know, her brother, and you 217 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: know he just you know, they loved each other, and 218 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, Sarah just had a good time with Buddy, 219 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: stressed him up for Halloween and take him for long 220 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: walks as that was indicated earlier, and everybody kind of 221 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: knew her, you know, from around town. She sometimes walked 222 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: the dog for an hour, hour and a half from 223 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: Neptune City all the way down to the beach, which 224 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: is I guess about a mile and a half and 225 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: then walk along the beach. So a lot of people 226 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: knew her. And she also worked as a gatekeeper in 227 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: Bradley Beach, you know, for Badge Cha and you know 228 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: that previous summer, so a lot of people knew were 229 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: from there too. So wait a minute, Wait a minute, 230 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: Wait a minute. She worked with the public at the 231 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: beach right there. Okay, I'm gonna come back to Buddy 232 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: the dog, Detective wife brought right there. You know, when 233 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: you have a young woman that's working with the public, 234 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: for instance, at a restaurant, at a coffee shop, in 235 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: a mall, at a beach, they come in contact with 236 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: so many people. Detective, it's my experience, and I think 237 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: generally you start in a small and eculeu. It's like 238 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: you look at the family, you look at the next 239 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: door neighbor, you look at the boyfriend, the ex boyfriend, 240 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: and you start moving out. But when you have the victim, 241 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: the missing person in a melu where there's thousands and 242 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: thousands of people that she could come in contact that 243 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: may have gotten a crush on her, that may have 244 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: been obsessed with her. You got used like looking for 245 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: a needle in a haystack, then, Detective, Yeah, absolutely, we didn't. 246 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: We didn't know what we were active facing at the 247 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: time that Sarah was reported missing. We didn't know, uh, 248 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: you know, we didn't know if she had left voluntarily. 249 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: We didn't know if there's any foul play involved. We 250 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: were certainly searching for, you know, any small pieces of 251 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: information that we could that we could get to help 252 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: lead us. Oh Man, detective, why sprout you you got 253 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: your work cut out for you here? Because what Michael 254 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: just told me changed the complexion of the investigation completely. 255 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, Uh, you don't have to 256 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: be fantastically beautiful. You don't have to be special, unlike 257 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: this girl who is special, who is beautiful. For some 258 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: nut to get a crush on you and to put 259 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: it mildly and follow you around, you may not even 260 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: know they're there. I didn't realize she worked at the beach. 261 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: She was probably wearing either a swimsuit, or a pair 262 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: of shorts, or a lifeguard outfits, something like that. Working 263 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: at the beach, this beautiful girl sing every single person 264 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: that came in the gate. Oh no, no, no. That 265 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: changes things, Bethany, Well, Nancy, absolutely, because if somebody saw 266 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: her in public and started to stalk her, they are 267 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: not necessarily going to have her email address or her 268 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: phone or any kind of a device where you could 269 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: track that person so they could stalk her in secret. 270 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: Stalking is one of the most serious disorders in my field. 271 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: We consider it an incurable disorder. And when somebody a 272 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: stalker develops a fixation on a young woman like Sarah Stern, 273 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: the desire to stalk never goes away. It can go 274 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: on for weeks, months, years, and to develop into such 275 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: an extreme obsession that they want to completely control her. 276 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: And you and I have talked about this many times, 277 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: but the psychology of stalking is that the stalker feels 278 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 1: that he has a unique and special relationship with the victim, 279 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: even when there's no evidence to support that, and then 280 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: he goes after the victim to punish her for perceived rejections. 281 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: So she's out there in a swimsuit shorts as beautiful 282 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: as she was and somebody was stalking her, that really 283 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: makes her a prime target. And you know, Michael Stern, 284 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,239 Speaker 1: you know I have twins, John, David and Lucy. I 285 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: don't want Lucy to feel like she can't go to 286 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: the beach and wear her swimsuit or her shorts. When 287 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: we're outside and we say that as if somehow it's 288 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: the girl's fault. It's not the girl's fault. And you know, 289 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: Sarah just seems like a happy, go lucky person. Did 290 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: you share the home with her? That was you two 291 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: live there? Correct? When you heard cop say made it 292 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: to the home and she wasn't there, what went through 293 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,479 Speaker 1: your mind? Well, you know at the time you were driving. 294 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: So we're in communication with the police department in the 295 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: Neptune city in Belmar, trying to put things together to 296 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: try to find out where Sarah was. Of course, early 297 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: in the morning not too easy to get information. But 298 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: by five o'clock, you know, people were up and you 299 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: know things were happening, and you know, we just, you know, 300 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: try to piece things together. I'm trying to imagine that drive, Michael, 301 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: guys with me. Sarah's dad, Michael Starr, and her only 302 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: parent since her mom passed away after a battle with cancer, 303 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: a fierce battle with cancer. I'm trying to think about 304 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: you in the car. It's three am in the morning, 305 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: it's dark, pits dark outside. You don't want to say, well, 306 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: she'll turn up call me in the morning. Oh no, no, no, no. 307 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: You get in the car and you put the pedal 308 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: to the metal and starting driving Florida to New Jersey. 309 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: You say you're in constant contact with the police. They 310 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: tell you the cars on the bridge. You know that's 311 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: not right. So, Michael, when you get back home, you 312 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: drive all night. You get there. What was your first thought? 313 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: Do you remember walking into the home. Walked into the 314 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: home and took a look around, looked up in Sarah's 315 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: room and she hadn't even finished unpacking from the Florida 316 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: trip the week before when she came back, so her 317 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: to one of her suitcases was still had most of 318 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: the stuff in it, and it was still on the 319 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: floor in her bedroom. Next thing, we just took a 320 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: look around outside and they went, wait a minute, So 321 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: she had not even unpacked her backs. What else did 322 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 1: you notice, if anything, Well, it's just you know, her 323 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: room just seemed pretty warm, a little messy, you know, 324 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: typical of a teenage girl's room. But other than that, 325 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: it just didn't look like anything was really you know 326 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: that did anything had happened up in the room. It 327 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: just looked kind of normal, and you know, the rest 328 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: of the house, nothing seemed out of place. That was 329 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: my next question. Did it look like it had been 330 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: ransacked or untithy or anything broken. Nope, not that, you know, 331 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: not that I could see. And then they looked around 332 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: the yard, the backyard, same thing in the um. You know, 333 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't really see much. It was I guess, let's see, 334 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: it was about seven thirty at night when we got 335 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: home Saturday night, and just briefly looked around and that 336 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: was that all we could do. And he's still making 337 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: phone calls and you know, yeah, but in the house, 338 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: there's no scuffs on the wall, nothing's broken, nothing's out 339 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: of place, No rugs all bunched up like something had 340 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: been dragged or a tussle had taken place, nothing at all. Nope, 341 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: nothing at all. What did if you don't like when 342 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: you went in? When I come home and every the 343 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: house is quiet, that is an eerie feeling to me. 344 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: I don't know that I'm ever at the house without 345 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: everybody else there. We travel as a pack. So when 346 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: you walk in and nobody's there, how did that strike you? Well, 347 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: the only the only one that was here was actually there, 348 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: the dog buddy, and he just seemed a little out 349 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:29,959 Speaker 1: of place, you know, somebody had come over and let 350 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: him out, stuff like that. Neighbors. You took care of him, 351 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: you know, for the morning, in the afternoon until we 352 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: got back. So dog, you know, the dogs seem normal too, 353 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: but you know it's they don't talk, and I just, 354 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. Let me ask you this, 355 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: Detective Brian Weiss brought joining me from Mammouth County. Was 356 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: the door to the Stern home walked or unlocked? The 357 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: front door was unlocked, the officers were able to get 358 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: into the home from the other front door. Is that normal, Michael, 359 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: that your front door would be unlocked? Now not if 360 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: nobody was on the door would normally be locked, huh. 361 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: And if Sarah went out, you would turn the lights 362 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: that you would only leave lake a light on in 363 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: the living room, you know, in the front entrance or 364 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: maybe the porch light, but you wouldn't leave any other 365 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: lights on. And the half turn them off. That's interesting, 366 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: Detective weisbrot where the lights on are off in the home, 367 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: the lights were primarily all the lights were on. So 368 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: from looking at the home from the street, you would 369 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: think there would be a houseful of people inside. Okay, 370 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: right there, Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanais joining them from LA. 371 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: We've discussed this over and over and over, particularly in 372 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: the case of add on say yet routine evidence. If 373 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: someone came to our place and the doors were not locked, 374 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: you would know something is very wrong. It's like pulling 375 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: up to your home and you see the front door 376 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: wide open. Okay, that's not right. You know immediately. I 377 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: even have certain lights that I always leave on and 378 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 1: certain lights that are always turned off. So for Michael 379 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: to get home or the detectives to get there and 380 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: the front door is unlocked and all the lights are on, 381 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: you know, that's not the way Sarah would leave it, 382 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: and I would have defense. Our attorneys argue with me, 383 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: that means nothing. It means something to me, Bethany, are 384 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: we really creatures of habited Nancy. The reason it was 385 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: unusual that they came home, that the detectives showed up 386 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: the door was unlocked, the lights were on, everything was 387 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: not in its normal Part of a normal routine is 388 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: extremely important because patterns and rituals are very important to 389 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: human beings. So in my private practic I always know 390 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: which patients are going to show up five minutes early 391 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: or seven minutes late, Who's going to turn on my 392 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: waiting room light, who's going to forget to do it, 393 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: Who's going to spill coffee on my sofa. They do 394 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: the same thing week after week. When I come home 395 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: at night, I know if my husband will be here 396 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: or not. If he's here, I know what lights will 397 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: be on. Our rituals are grounding to us. They make 398 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: us feel secure. So we human beings do not change 399 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: our rituals because we need them to feel regulated. It's 400 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: not just that Sarah's trying to keep her dad happy 401 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: by turning off the lights. That's not what it's about. 402 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: It's that she needs it for a sense of safety 403 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: and security in the world. So of course it's unusual 404 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: that everything is not in its normal order. You know, 405 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: I think I take it over the top, Bethany. I 406 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: like to have everything, of course, with this many animals 407 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: and my mother and my husband and the children. There's 408 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: never anything really in place, but it makes me feel 409 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: come to to go about a routine. I do this, 410 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: and I do that, and I do this, then I 411 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: do that. And Sarah always left the home a certain way. 412 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: That was her routine. Was there any kind of a 413 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: note or a message Sarah had left you, Michael, No, 414 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: no notes, no messages, nothing, Well that was that like her. No, 415 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: she usually wouldn't leave any note. She would just call 416 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: or send a text that she was going out or 417 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: you know, she'd be back or where she was going. 418 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: But since I wasn't there, it wasn't necessary part and 419 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: let me know she was going to be home, because 420 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, I figured she would. You know, she was 421 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: just doing her normal, her normal thing. And Friday night 422 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: sometimes she'd go out and you know, they uh with 423 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: some of her friends and they go for appetizers and Applebee's, 424 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: or they might just go down and have pizza or 425 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: meet someplace, you know, and just to have some then 426 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: he eat and then you know, she wasn't a late 427 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: night person. Once in a while maybe one o'clock in 428 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: the morning, twelve thirty, one o'clock, but normally by midnight 429 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: she was she was back home. When did they tell 430 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: you they have gone through the home, she's not there 431 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: and Buddy's in the grate locked up. That was some 432 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,719 Speaker 1: time early morning, and you know I knew what you know, 433 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: the police officers that hadn't gone to the home, so 434 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, they were asking me questions and they just 435 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: you know, when they started telling me things like Buddy 436 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: was in his h you know, in his cage, which 437 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: is you know, he just wasn't in there very much 438 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: in the last three or four years because she calmed down. 439 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: You know, when he's puppy, he was, you know, he 440 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: very curious, ready to run out and take off to 441 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: do it, could sprint to you know, probably a mile 442 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: in a minute. But you know, as he got older, 443 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: he was more docile and just friendly and curious. And 444 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: he wasn't he just didn't put him in the He 445 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: just wouldn't be in the cage for any reason. Even yeah, 446 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: I had read or someone told me that Buddy had 447 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: the run of the house, so for him to be 448 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: in the crate was unusual. When would he be in 449 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: the crate? When would she put him in the crate? 450 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: Only if there was maybe a lot of people in 451 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: the house or you know, there was you know, things 452 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: going in and out, you know, a lot of movement, 453 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: but in the last couple of years, very rarely. I mean, 454 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: you know, he just didn't you know, he didn't have 455 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: to desire here, would go outside, he'd walk out in 456 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: the front yard, walk around and and come back in. 457 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: He wasn't he just wasn't in the sprint mode for 458 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: the last few years, and he just didn't need to 459 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: be in the in the crate. So if somebody came over, 460 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: that was you know, maybe he was, uh, you know, 461 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: wanted to get more friendly with and sniff around and 462 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: you know, kind of get some feedback from them. You know, 463 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: we might put him in there just to keep them, 464 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: you know, just from you know, yeah, we we hardly 465 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: ever have ours there, and I'll tell you why. We 466 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: have it all set up with pillows in a blanket. 467 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: He likes his crate, but he likes being out more. So. 468 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: I understood that buddy had the run of the house 469 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: and had only been the crate, like you're telling me, 470 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: on very rare occasions. So it wasn't like Sarah to 471 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: put him in there and leave him. No, absolutely not. 472 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: She just wouldn't. When did you do you remember that 473 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: moment when you're in the car and the pitch black 474 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: outside and they tell you we're at the house and 475 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: she's not here. What happened? Well, it was you know, 476 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: that's you just I don't know, you just go through it, 477 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: you know, to think in your mind, like where is 478 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: she and why didn't you home? And you know, if 479 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: something was wrong with the car, you know, did she 480 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: not want to tell anybody? You know, did she run 481 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: out of gas? Was she embarrassed? And you know it 482 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: was just hight Now for a while, we just didn't 483 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: have a clue. So the first thing we did is 484 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: just contact its neighbors and family to see if anybody 485 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: at her fromer gusins, you know, local cousins that are 486 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, within a mile or two in the house, 487 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: so you know, they might have heard farmer. He might 488 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: have been out with her. So we just you know, 489 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: at that point, we just didn't know. So Cyrust are 490 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: nowhere to be found. She's not in her car abandoned 491 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: on a remote bridge, she's not at home, her dog 492 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: locked in the crate and now this rears it's ugly here, Okay, 493 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: she brought over today. I've been can I friend of 494 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: my mother's stuff to your house. So she wrote a 495 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: bin of stuff of her mother's to your house. I said, yes, 496 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: I'll put it in a cubby, and I tried texts 497 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: in her and nothing. We know that at some point 498 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: Sarah was taking personal belongings, putting them in bins and 499 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: distributing them. And on that particular day, the day that 500 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: Sarah went missing, Sarah went over to the Draper's house 501 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: and left off some bins of some of her personal items. 502 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,719 Speaker 1: And as she depressed, as I think, not suicide on anywhere. 503 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: Do you think I don't know, taking her mother's belongings 504 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: to neighbors that day, the day she goes missing, joining 505 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: me of crime and Court reporter from New Jersey dot 506 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: Com and star Ledger Alex Napoliello. Alex, that is very 507 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: odd to me. That is a big red flag. Why 508 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: would Sarah be taking her mom's belongings in bins to neighbors. 509 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: That's not good. That sounds mord to me, like she's 510 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: planning to leave town. Just just tell me what you 511 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: know happened that day just before she goes missing. So 512 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: on the day before Sarah's carr was found missing, we 513 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: know that Sarah was collecting belongings and dispersing them, and 514 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: one of the places she took some of those belongings 515 00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: was to her neighbor's house, the Draper Home, and Aara 516 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: have been close friends with Carle Draper and her mother, 517 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: Robin Draper. Robin was almost like a second mother to 518 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: Sarah after Sarah's mom passed. So these are people she trusted, 519 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: and so she's taking these belongings. She's with her friend, 520 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: her best friend, Liam Leah mctaffney, and he's helping her 521 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: get rid of these belongings. It's it's strange that she's 522 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: taking belongings and putting them elsewhere, because we don't know 523 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: why she's collecting these things there. They have been at 524 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: her house, so we don't know why she suddenly feels 525 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: the need to take these belongings and start dispersing them 526 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: outside the home. Yeah. I mean, Alex, that's a huge 527 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: red flag to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining me out 528 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: of la Bethany, I mean, not only is she dispersing 529 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: I was belonging to her mother. I mean, you know 530 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: how I hold on to my dad's stuff. I wouldn't 531 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: dare leave it anywhere else ever, and she's enlisted her 532 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: best friends. She had two really good friends I always 533 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: called the three Musketeers, Liam and Preston and her And 534 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: she has one of her best friends going with her. 535 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: Why would someone, in your opinion do that, Well, my 536 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: professional opinion would not be that she's depressed because it 537 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: takes an enormous amount of energy to gather up possessions 538 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: and take them to somebody else's home. Okay, so that's 539 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: not depression. It is something that we commonly see in 540 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: people who are suicidal, that often they will take their 541 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: most valuable possessions and give them away. How can you 542 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: not link suicide with depression. She's not depressed, but she 543 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: could be suicidal. Now you're talking a lot of psycho 544 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: lingo to that doesn't make it. Well, when you commit suicide, 545 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: you are depressed. Actually, people are at the greatest risk 546 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: for suicide as they're coming out of a depression or 547 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: if they have a burst of energy. If you're too depressed, 548 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: you won't be able to kill yourself, But as you're 549 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: coming out of a depression, then you will have the 550 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: energy to do it. So you know, ninety percent of 551 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 1: people who successfully terminate their life, either have a co 552 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: occurring substance abuse disorder, which obviously she did not have, 553 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: or some kind of mental illness common lead depression, but 554 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: when you're at your lowest point of depression, you won't 555 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 1: do it. It is as when you have some burst 556 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: of energy, like you're on some kind of drug, you're drinking, 557 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: maybe you've been at a party, maybe something just piques 558 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 1: your spirits just enough that you get the courage to 559 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: do that which you've been thinking of all along. However, 560 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: if she was suicidal, you would also see a withdrawal 561 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: from friendships, a lack of interest in normal activities in 562 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,479 Speaker 1: her life, like a psychological social withdrawal. And I don't 563 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: see that here, which makes it a very strange clinical picture. 564 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: I want to go to Sarah's dad, Michael, Michael Stern 565 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: joining us. Michael, she did not use drugs, She was 566 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: not a drinker, to your knowledge. Was she depressed? Why 567 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: would she be putting her mom's belongings in bins and 568 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 1: giving them to a neighbor and dragging her friend along 569 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: with her. Well, that was that was a bit confusing 570 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: because some of the stuff that was brought over there 571 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: was only two basically two things that were brought over. 572 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: The one was a pin that had, you know, like 573 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: the small collection of stuff that was actually from her 574 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: great aunt and a couple of her great aunts and 575 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: papers and a few I don't let go on knickbacks 576 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: and some paperwork and some stuff from her grandfather who 577 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: had tapped away on her mother's side. And then the 578 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: other thing was a box that was actually from the 579 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: Disney World, which was from the Haunted mansion. It was 580 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: a tombstone that was in a box that was a 581 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: plastic thing, but like a hallway decoration. This one fact, 582 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: Michael has thrown the whole investigation on its ear. Joining 583 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 1: me Detective Brian Weiss brought from the Mommouth County Prosecutor's office. 584 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: Detective Brian Weiss brought that to me. I'm thinking, Okay, 585 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: did she jump, But there's no history of depression. She 586 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: was very brave through her mom's passing and soldiered on 587 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: and rebirthed herself through photography and art, made all these 588 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: close friends. I don't see her as being depressed. She 589 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: was very outgoing when she worked at the beach, So 590 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: that leads me to she's leaving town. But now with 591 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: this taking possessions to a neighbor for safekeeping. What did that? 592 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: What do your mind when you heard that, Detective. Yeah, so, 593 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: when we had learned that Sarah was packing up their 594 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: belongings and bringing them over to a neighbor's house, we 595 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: obviously we were highly concerned about that, especially considering the 596 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,479 Speaker 1: fact that her car sat on the bridge. We don't 597 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: know where she is, um, you know, we had a 598 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: lot of discussion about that, is she was she giving 599 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: her belongings away because she didn't need them anymore or 600 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: didn't want them anymore. We certainly didn't know why she 601 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: was doing that at the time, and that's certainly was 602 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: something that we had to work through. Take a listen 603 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: to our friend Amy Robot. It definitely never made sense 604 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: to me. She loved everyone, so for her to leave 605 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: without a trace and not say goodbye to a friends 606 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: and family, that's that's not Sarah. That wasn't Sarah. Her 607 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: ability to disappear and move to Canada and create some 608 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: fake identity was never really plausible. The suicide angle of 609 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,040 Speaker 1: it was a little bit more believable. Michael, What do 610 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: you make of the theory that she had committed suicide 611 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: because she was depressed. Well, when I talked to her 612 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: the night before, she wasn't depressed, and there was nothing 613 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: out of the normal, was Sarah. She just seemed like 614 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: your regular self. That was about it. No indication at all, 615 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: And that's what her friends say, Doctor Bethany Marshall. Are 616 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: there always indicators of a potential suicide because people always 617 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 1: go we didn't see it coming. And I had a 618 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: very dear friend commit suicide and at the time I 619 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: was like, I can't believe he did this. I didn't 620 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: see it coming. But in retrospect, when I look back, 621 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: there were plenty of red flags because what you see 622 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: is isolation, withdrawal, numbing, loss of pleasure, and things that 623 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: normally are normally pleasurable, disinterest in everyday activities, hopelessness, despair. 624 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: In my experience as the people who really intend to 625 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: prematurely end their lives do not tell other people about it. 626 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: They keep it a secret and they always have a 627 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: firm plan. Those who are just hopeless talk about it 628 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: all the time. There's two kinds of suicidality. One is 629 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: where the person thinks, boy, I would be better off 630 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: if I were dead, and they have fantasies about it. 631 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: But they would never do it. The second type is 632 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: where the person really intends to end their life and 633 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: then they really don't talk about it because they know 634 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: that other people will interfere. But the thing about Sarah Stern, 635 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 1: she was full of life, full of activities. She had 636 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: interest in everything that was going on around her. People 637 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 1: who are suicidal are withdrawn and disinterested. That's what we 638 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: primarily see. Well, that would not be Sarah. And then 639 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: out of the blue and the theory that she left 640 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: to go meet a friend, a boyfriend in Canada to 641 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: Detective Brian Weiss brought from Mommouth County, that's a real 642 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: that's a that's a real lead, a solid lead because apparently, 643 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, she was so involved in the video world 644 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: and Canada was a big influence in those various um 645 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: online communities that she was a part of. So I 646 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: could absolutely see her connecting with somebody online. Detective. Yeah, 647 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: Sarah had visited Canada just about a month and a 648 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: half prior to her disappearance. We knew and understood Canada 649 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: to be a place that Sarah was comfortable. We knew 650 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: she had friends there that she met from the online community, 651 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: and that that was a place where she aspired to 652 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: ultimately move to. The One thing that we learned as 653 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: the investigation progressed was that Sarah had a very solid 654 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: understanding that she couldn't just crack up one day and 655 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: moved to Canada. That she had to have a plan. 656 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: She had to have a job, she had to have 657 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: a car, she had to have money, you know, she 658 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: had to you know, have the means to live and 659 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: survive there on her own. So it was more of 660 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: a out a short to a long term goal. Oh, detective, detective, detective, 661 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: are you trying to apply common sense to a team 662 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: girl that thinks she's in love? Because that is just 663 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: not going to work. Okay, I've even learned that with Lucy, 664 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: my daughter, the eleven year old Frankly John David too. Yeah, 665 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,879 Speaker 1: you'd think you'd know, you need a car, you need 666 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: a job, you need a way to support yourself. You 667 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,240 Speaker 1: don't just take off for Canada. That's me and you talking. 668 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: That's not an eighteen year old a team girl talking. 669 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: So not only are police investigating the theory that Sarah 670 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: was depressed, but now speculation mounts that she's taken off 671 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: for Canada. Listen to Amy Rowe. She seemed very happy 672 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: and she asked me to hang out that night. Carly 673 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 1: Draper had an encounter with Liam and Sarah the day 674 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 1: Sarah went missing, and she was telling me that she 675 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: wanted to move to Canada. She hugged me and I 676 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: was like, love you them. She was like, love you too, 677 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: And that was the last time. I said. Michael Stern, 678 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: had you ever heard anything about her friends in Canada? Uh? Yeah, 679 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,760 Speaker 1: they were basically the internet, you know, the social media 680 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: yet but there was a few few friends up there 681 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: that she knew. Some of the people she had met 682 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: up there were actually from other areas that they met 683 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,879 Speaker 1: at the VidCon convention in Toronto. So it was oh, 684 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,839 Speaker 1: oh wait, wait wait. You know how things when you 685 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: go on a vacation and you meet somebody on vacation, 686 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,239 Speaker 1: you're away from the real world. Nobody's working at the 687 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: donut shop or going to school or their job, and 688 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 1: it just seems so wonderful. Okay, that throws another wrench 689 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: into it. Joining me is Alex Napoliello. Alex, tell me 690 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: about any connections between Sarah and Canada that you managed 691 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: to unearthed. Yeah. So, after Sarah went missing, we spoke 692 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 1: to a number of friends at that she had met 693 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: at these conventions, these digital media conventions. UH one had 694 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,800 Speaker 1: told me that they were planning on having a vigil 695 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: in Toronto in Canada for Sarah. And these these people 696 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: loved Sarah. They had They didn't have much interactions in 697 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 1: person because they only had that short time at the 698 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: conventions to interact with her. But she kept in constant 699 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: communication with these folks that she met the Internet and 700 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,400 Speaker 1: FaceTime chatting and internet texting and all that kind of 701 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: online interactions. So she was very close to these people 702 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: and they loved her. They had they had when when 703 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: they heard the news that Sarah had dominate saying they 704 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: were deeply upset. Many of them went to YouTube. Some 705 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 1: people who have millions of followers went to YouTube to 706 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 1: express how sad they were of the news of Sarah's disappearance. 707 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: So this was the community that, although was not close 708 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: by geography, was very close with one another through the 709 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: internet communications that they had. Well, you do not want 710 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,479 Speaker 1: is your team girl getting hooked up with somebody on 711 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:33,800 Speaker 1: the internet, someone that would lure them from home, waiting 712 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 1: till their dad's out of town for a week and 713 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:42,280 Speaker 1: then Suddenly, bam, she's gone. Amidst the Canada search, amidst 714 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:49,839 Speaker 1: theories of suicide and depression, the search intensifies. Right there 715 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 1: at home, Nancy Grace signing up Good Nights