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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I

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Speaker 1: will be your host today Emily Simpson and Shane and

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Speaker 1: Shane Simpson. Okay, first of all, we just want to

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Speaker 1: do a little updates. We always like to do updates

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode on previous cases we

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Speaker 1: have talked about. So, there were some things about the

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Speaker 1: Diddy case that came up in the news. Did you

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Speaker 1: read anything about it?

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Speaker 2: No? Is he He's still a dirtbag right?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Okay, Well, what's going on right now is that

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Speaker 1: Diddy's defense team is arguing that the Man Act, which

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Speaker 1: is how he was convicted. Now you do remember that

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Speaker 1: the large charges against him, like the racketeering, conspiracy and

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Speaker 1: the trafficking, and then all that was left that he's

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Speaker 1: going to be because he's still on drill. He has

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Speaker 1: to be sentence, but he's just going to be sentenced

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Speaker 1: under the smaller charges. Anyway, his defense team is arguing

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Speaker 1: that the Man Act is unconstitutional and that was what

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Speaker 1: he was convicted under as far as transporting. Remember he

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Speaker 1: was just convicted of transporting prostitutes or sex acts or whatever.

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Speaker 1: The Man Act, also known as the White Slave Traffic Act,

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Speaker 1: as a law that prohibits the transportation of individuals across

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Speaker 1: state lines or international borders with intent that such individual

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Speaker 1: engage in prostitution or any sexual activity. So the law

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Speaker 1: has a very broad wording, and subsequent Supreme Court interpretation

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Speaker 1: has allowed prosecutors to bring cases against this is in

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Speaker 1: the past unlawful pre marital, extramarital and interracial couples. So

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Speaker 1: basically there are arguing. His defense team is arguing that

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Speaker 1: this is basically an outdated, you know act that has

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Speaker 1: roots in racism, that was really had broad language so

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Speaker 1: that you could target interracial couples, and it was used

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Speaker 1: with R. Kelly. That's how he was convicted. He was

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Speaker 1: convicted under the Man Acts. So Cumb's defense team is arguing.

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Speaker 1: So they argued back in February that the Man Act

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Speaker 1: has a racist history, claiming that he was targeted for

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Speaker 1: being a powerful black man and what was racist and

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Speaker 1: its inception has often been racist in its operation. That's

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Speaker 1: what the legal team claims. His attorneys said this in

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Speaker 1: a court filing, claiming that no white person had faced

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Speaker 1: a similar prosecution with the Man Act. Now the question

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Speaker 1: is what if it is deemed to be unconstitutional, Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Is the age having any age alone doesn't make it

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Speaker 2: like to eliminate it because it's like, well, murder's been

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Speaker 2: illegal for a thousand years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess when you look back at the intent

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Speaker 1: of the law and when it was enacted, the purpose

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Speaker 1: was to possibly target inter racial couples. And are we

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Speaker 1: now using it to prosecute a black man? And that

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Speaker 1: is I'm not no, no, but I'm when I say we,

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Speaker 1: I mean the prosecution is that is that the intent there?

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Speaker 1: If it's to be unconstitutional, what are the after effects?

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Speaker 1: I mean R Kelly was convicted under it?

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Speaker 2: Does he get out?

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Speaker 1: Also, just a little other update on the Ditty case.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when we were talking about Didty earlier

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Speaker 1: and there was another victim. She was she was named

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Speaker 1: victim number three in the indictment and that she was

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Speaker 1: supposed to testify, She was subpoena.

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Speaker 2: To testify, and then she back down or disappeared.

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Speaker 1: Well, the prosecution was like they couldn't get a hold

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Speaker 1: of her, or she quit responding, her attorney quit responding

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Speaker 1: on her behalf. So basically she ended up am I

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Speaker 1: a no show? So victim number three in the indictment

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Speaker 1: her name was Gina, and she previously identified in court

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Speaker 1: documents as victim number three. However, Gina has now submitted

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Speaker 1: a letter to a New York judge in support of Ditty,

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Speaker 1: asking that he'd be granted bail. She's asking the judge

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Speaker 1: to consider Combs's role as a family man and allow

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Speaker 1: him to remain free while under court supervision. In the letter,

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Speaker 1: which was filed by Combs's defense team back on August third,

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Speaker 1: Gina described Ditty as someone who had worked to better himself,

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Speaker 1: noting that although although their relationship had had its challenges,

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Speaker 1: Combs has shown growth over time. She wrote, quote, he

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Speaker 1: was willing to acknowledge his mistakes and make a better

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Speaker 1: decisions in the future, adding that by the end of

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Speaker 1: our relationship he had developed an energy of love, patience,

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Speaker 1: and gentleness. And do you remember we also talked about

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Speaker 1: this in an earlier episode, how he had and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure this is in response to all the lawsuits that

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Speaker 1: were coming out against him. But remember, you know he's

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Speaker 1: changed his name multiple times. He was like puff Daddy,

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Speaker 1: and then he became p Diddy, and then I think

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Speaker 1: his most recent name change was he changed his name

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Speaker 1: to like Sean love Combs or something like that. So

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Speaker 1: Gina goes on to emphasize that Colmbs had not been

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Speaker 1: violent in years and called him cooperative and respectful throughout

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Speaker 1: the legal process, allowing.

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Speaker 2: It, well, I'm sorry to interrupt. Oh wow, you've been nice.

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Speaker 1: For a couple of years, very well behaved.

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Speaker 2: So why he's still committed all that he did? That's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why someone would get a lesser sentence

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Speaker 2: because they've been nice for a couple of.

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Speaker 1: Years, right, Like when you're like when you're going to

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Speaker 1: court and convicting someone and then they're like, but you

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Speaker 1: know what your on her? I was nice this week.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say that at the reunion. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be like, look, I.

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Speaker 2: Was nice today off camera. I was very nice.

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Speaker 1: Despite being referenced in the indictment, Gina never testified during

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Speaker 1: Combe's trial because prosecutors told the court that they had

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Speaker 1: lost contact with her and her attorney. Well now that

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Speaker 1: we know, I mean, she's writing a letter on his

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Speaker 1: behalf and sending it to the judge that his defense

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Speaker 1: team is submitting it. She's saying that he's, you know,

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Speaker 1: this change man, and he's all full of love and

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Speaker 1: you know, warmth and cuddliness. Now, clearly she didn't have

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I can I can guess

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Speaker 1: what happened.

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Speaker 2: What happened.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, this is just a legend. This is

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Speaker 1: just my opinion. But I assume that he had some

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Speaker 1: kind of contact with her. Oh yeah, either she's scared

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Speaker 1: or we should yeah account, or she's gaining something substantial.

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Speaker 1: And that's just my opinion. I don't know that for

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Speaker 1: a fact, but I would assume anyone who doesn't show

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Speaker 1: up to court to testify and then writes a letter

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Speaker 1: on his behalfs talking about what a wonderful person he

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Speaker 1: is has been affected.

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Speaker 2: That's the witness that went on the stand and said,

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Speaker 2: you know, no, your honor, mister Gotti is a wonderful

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Speaker 2: man and I hope my children are inspired by him,

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Speaker 2: and he's such a kind father. And I don't know

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Speaker 2: what you're talking about, because that's what they did on

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Speaker 2: the stand. Oh yeah, for John Gotti. They would literally

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Speaker 2: be like, no, yeah, I know, he's a great guy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw him in the alley of the day

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Speaker 2: was great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because they had visits yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, prior to absolutely yeah, and I would have done

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Speaker 2: the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna protect your family, You're going to protect

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Speaker 1: yourself at the end of well, all right, we already

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Speaker 1: discussed this when we were talking about the Idaho for murders,

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Speaker 1: where I was saying, please do not sleep in the

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Speaker 1: bed while I'm getting attacked.

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Speaker 2: I promise.

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Speaker 1: That's it. That's all I want you to say.

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Speaker 2: All right, wasn't in our marriage vows?

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Speaker 1: Well it is. Now we're gonna We're gonna amend our

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Speaker 1: marriage vows. And I would I would like to add

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Speaker 1: an amendment that Shane has to if I am attacked

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, that he has to intervene.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to This is such an

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Speaker 1: interesting case. I have found myself obsessed again and just

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Speaker 1: researching constantly. Shane says, I researched too much, but I

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Speaker 1: do maybe anyway, let's move on to And it took

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Speaker 1: me a while to figure this out, but the Gilgo

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Speaker 1: Beach murders is the same as the Long Island serial Killer.

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Speaker 1: So if you see anything on Netflix or Hulu about

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Speaker 1: the gil Go beat, it is the same as long

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Speaker 1: as the Long Island serial Killer. It just took a

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Speaker 1: long time, put the two together, put the two together.

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Speaker 1: And now obviously here we are and we've put the

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Speaker 1: two together and they're all connected. So let's go through

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Speaker 1: the Gilgo Beach murders and the Long Island serial killer.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's do a little background of the case

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Speaker 1: and just get through some facts.

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Speaker 2: Gilgo Beach is the name of the location, the beach, right,

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Speaker 2: It's not the name of the serial killer. No, Okay.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

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Speaker 1: The Gilgo Beach serial killings involve a string of unsolved murders,

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Speaker 1: primarily targeting women, many of whom were sex workers, whose

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Speaker 1: remains were discovered along a remote stretch of Ocean Parkway

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Speaker 1: near Gilgo Beach, Long Island. And this happened. These were

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Speaker 1: discovered between twenty ten and twenty eleven. Now, the catalyst

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Speaker 1: of finding these four bodies on Gilgo Beach was a

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Speaker 1: woman named Shannon Gilbert. And so I feel like this

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Speaker 1: story really has to start with Shannon and how this

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Speaker 1: whole investigation and how all of these bodies became known. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Shannon Gilbert has an appointment to meet with a

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Speaker 1: client and Long Island, and when I say client, she's

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Speaker 1: a sex worker. Yeah, is that what they're called John?

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Speaker 1: To meet with John. I don't know why, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but okay, a John. So she has

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Speaker 1: a driver named Michael Pack, who I assume is just

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Speaker 1: a friend or something. And obviously, you know you don't

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Speaker 1: want to go alone. She drives too Long Island to

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Speaker 1: meet with her client. Michael Pack is her driver, and

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Speaker 1: he's like sitting in the driveway at this house, this home,

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Speaker 1: it's in Oak Beach, and she's inside with the client.

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Speaker 1: Then she for some reason, we don't know. This is

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Speaker 1: where the mystery unfolds. But something happens inside this house.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what it is. But she calls nine

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Speaker 1: to one one and she's freaking out, and it's actually

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Speaker 1: like a twenty minute phone called a nine to one

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Speaker 1: one actually released the entire phone call at some point

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Speaker 1: in time. But when she calls, she says things like,

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Speaker 1: they are trying to kill me, They're going to kill me,

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Speaker 1: They're after me, things like that, she says. She says

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Speaker 1: they As far as the investigation goes, she was just

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Speaker 1: meeting with the one man in the house. Apparently she

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Speaker 1: runs out of the house and she runs by her driver,

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Speaker 1: Michael Pack. He sees her running around, and I think

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Speaker 1: he tries to get her to get into the car

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Speaker 1: and she won't get into the car. Then she runs

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Speaker 1: to a neighbor's house who is an elderly man. She

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Speaker 1: knocks on the door. He lets her in. He says

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Speaker 1: that she like jumps in the house, and she's in

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Speaker 1: the hallway inside his house and he's and she's like,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna get me all these things, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: stay here, and I think he turns around for a

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Speaker 1: second to maybe pick up a phone or something, and

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Speaker 1: she runs out of the house and then he's looking

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Speaker 1: out of his window and he sees her and she's

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Speaker 1: darting behind his car, and she's hiding under He has

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Speaker 1: a boat, you know, because this is long island, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's each and he has a boat. She's hiding behind it.

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Speaker 1: He sees her crouching. He calls the police. Then she

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Speaker 1: runs to another woman's house, an elderly woman, and she

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Speaker 1: knocks on the door. The elderly woman won't let her in,

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Speaker 1: which I understand.

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Speaker 2: I doesn't know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Right, You don't know if that's a ruse or what

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Speaker 1: to get some you know, someone to open your door.

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Speaker 1: But that woman calls the police as well, so you've

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Speaker 1: got like three phone calls going to the police at

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Speaker 1: this time. Then Michael Pack, her driver, I guess, he

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Speaker 1: looks for her for a little bit and then he's

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Speaker 1: just like he can't find her. So he leaves and

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Speaker 1: drives back to Manhattan or wherever and leaves her behind.

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Speaker 1: And then eventually the police show up. They can't find her,

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Speaker 1: and so this woman wears that's her disappearance. So the

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Speaker 1: man who she met with the client.

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Speaker 2: She stayed in that house, I don't know. You know.

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Speaker 1: That is what is so sad about the whole Shannon

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Speaker 1: Gilbert case is that there are so many opportunities for

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Speaker 1: her to save herself, and I I don't understand what happened.

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Speaker 1: It is such a mystery to me. Because one Michael

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Speaker 1: Pack sees her and tries to get her in the car,

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Speaker 1: and she doesn't jump in the car. She's inside of

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Speaker 1: the neighbor's home and he tells her to wait here

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Speaker 1: as he calls the police, and she runs out the

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Speaker 1: front door again. And there's just these opportunities for her

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Speaker 1: to use.

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Speaker 2: Clearly, she was panicky.

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Speaker 1: Panicky, panicky, So Shannon Gilbert disappears. So the investigation begins

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Speaker 1: with a search for missing escort Shannon Gilbert, leading police

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Speaker 1: to uncover at least eleven sets of human remains, including

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Speaker 1: the so called Gilgo four, who were all found wrapped

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Speaker 1: in burlap and exhibited similar patterns of disposals. So what

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Speaker 1: happens is the police go, they search around, and they

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Speaker 1: can't find her, right, and then they kind of just

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Speaker 1: drop it and let it go.

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Speaker 2: Well, and the fact that she was just running around.

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Speaker 1: She was running around.

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Speaker 2: It's not like they said she was bloody or heard gunshots.

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Speaker 2: It was just she was running around and then she.

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Speaker 1: Left, right. So then her mother's name is Mary, and

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Speaker 1: her mother is a huge advocate, and she is just

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Speaker 1: constantly out there saying where is my daughter? Where is

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Speaker 1: my daughter? She won't let it go, which I give

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Speaker 1: her credit for that. She kept it alive and she

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Speaker 1: kept it in the media. So the media is constantly,

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Speaker 1: you know, talking about where Shannon Gilbert, what happened to her,

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Speaker 1: what's going on. So the police do investigate again and

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Speaker 1: do a very thorough search with dogs, and this is

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Speaker 1: when they find the four bodies on Gilgo beach. So

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Speaker 1: they're out walking around with dog, you know, dog cadaver dogs, Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you, and a dog signals and they find a body,

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Speaker 1: and they find a body wrapped in burlap, and then

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Speaker 1: they're searching around and they find another body.

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Speaker 2: I think the four bodies find three four, four, and

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Speaker 2: I think I read that they were half a mile

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Speaker 2: apart from each other.

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Speaker 1: Right, So they're all along this stretch of beach. They're

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Speaker 1: all similar as far as there are, the way of

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Speaker 1: they're disposed, the way they're wrapped in burlap, the way

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Speaker 1: they look, and the fact.

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Speaker 2: Known sex workers are believed to be well, were they

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 1: Know, Yes, they all were, Okay, I mean once they

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Speaker 1: id them and they know that. But at the time

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Speaker 1: they just find force that's and remains that are in

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Speaker 1: a similar area. And this is all because they were

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Speaker 1: looking for Shannon Gilbert. Now, once those four bodies are id'd,

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Speaker 1: not one of those women is Shannon Gilbert. However, they

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Speaker 1: do discover that they're all sex workers. They're all women,

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Speaker 1: they're all in their twenties, and they're all petite. So

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Speaker 1: now it's like, okay, now we have a serial killer.

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Speaker 2: Because right because there's too many similarities right now, was

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Speaker 2: Shannon Gilbert also described as they were like petit and whatnot? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so that's so does she fit that same fits.

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Speaker 1: The same profile. So Shannon Gilbert was also a sex worker.

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Speaker 1: She had she had postings on Craigslist that men would

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Speaker 1: respond to. She was also in her twenties, she was young,

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Speaker 1: she was petite, so she fit that description. However, she

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Speaker 1: was not one of those four. But the search for Shannon,

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Speaker 1: which was really dictated by her mom because I don't

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Speaker 1: think this police, Suffolk County police would probably not interested

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Speaker 1: in looking for her at all, if.

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Speaker 2: Not probably upset.

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Speaker 1: We'll stop talking about it. We have to like go

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Speaker 1: out here now. The names of the go go for

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Speaker 1: are Melissa bartholemy Amber Costello, Megan Waterman, and Maureene Brainard Barnes.

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Speaker 1: All of these women, like Shannon, worked as online escorts

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Speaker 1: and went missing between two thousand and seven and twenty ten.

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Speaker 1: Let's just go through a timeline, because the timeline is

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Speaker 1: really important in this case, because there are large gaps

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Speaker 1: of time where nothing happens at all.

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Speaker 2: Which is kind of one of the main issues, which.

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Speaker 1: Is a which is a main issue exactly. And then

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about why nothing was happening at all,

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Speaker 1: and then finally in the end, how they ended up

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Speaker 1: catching this guy, which is all very interesting. So in

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Speaker 1: May first, twenty ten, Shannon Gilbert disappears. She's traveling to

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Speaker 1: Oak Beach. Now, one other thing about this client. When

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Speaker 1: they were investigating and searching for her, they did give

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Speaker 1: him a polygraph.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so the john is known.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they know who he is. They went to his house,

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Speaker 1: they questioned him. Apparently, they gave him a light detector tech.

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Speaker 2: What was his story? What was his version of the events?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I couldn't there. There wasn't a lot

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Speaker 1: of detail about that, at least in what I've read

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Speaker 1: and what I saw. It was more of like he

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Speaker 1: doesn't know what happened, and she just kind of like

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Speaker 1: freaked out. He was trying to get her out of

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Speaker 1: the house. He actually went to Michael Pack, the driver,

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Speaker 1: and said, can you get this girl out of my house?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So I so Michael Pack.

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Speaker 1: Says, well, that's I believe. That's what Michael Pack says.

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Speaker 1: And the guy they questioned, it was basically like he

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Speaker 1: was saying, get her she won't leave, get her out

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Speaker 1: of my house.

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Speaker 2: But earlier you described it as she ran out. She did, so,

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Speaker 2: did Michael Pa see her run out of the house.

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Speaker 1: I don't know those The whole situation that night is

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Speaker 1: very convoluted and blurry for me. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: there's a clear picture of what actually happened with Shannon Gilbert.

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Speaker 1: It was just you've got these players. You've got Michael

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Speaker 1: Pack who drove her. You've got Shannon Gilbert who went

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Speaker 1: to Oak Beach for a client, and then you've got

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Speaker 1: the client. You've got the client saying that she freaked

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Speaker 1: out in the house and that she was acting weird

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Speaker 1: and that he just wanted her to leave. And you've

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Speaker 1: got Michael Pack saying she's running around everywhere. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: catch her. I couldn't find her, so I just left.

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Speaker 1: And then you've got a twenty minute nine to one

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Speaker 1: one call of her saying they're going to kill me.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know. It's I mean, it's a mystery.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what happened in that. I have no idea.

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Speaker 2: What if Michael Pack and mister John were in cahoots

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Speaker 2: together and they are that they yeah, you know, not

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Speaker 2: that we have any facts to support that.

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Speaker 1: We don't but I don't know, just throwing that out there. Yeah, now,

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Speaker 1: this is my first of twenty ten. May through November

351
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Speaker 1: of twenty ten, little progress is made in finding Shannon,

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Speaker 1: despite some searching by police and private investigators which were

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Speaker 1: hired by her own family. Gilbert remains missing. Four months now,

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Speaker 1: December eleventh, twenty ten, the first body is found. That's

355
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Speaker 1: while searching for Gilbert's body along Ocean Parkway, a Suffolk

356
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,679
Speaker 1: County Police officer and his cadaver dog discover human remains

357
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Speaker 1: near Gilgo Beach and then the remains. The first remains

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Speaker 1: are later identified as Melissa Bartholemy. Melissa Bartholomey went missing

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Speaker 1: on July tenth, two thousand and nine. She was a

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Speaker 1: twenty four year old sex worker and was last seen

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Speaker 1: at her apartment in the Bronx in New York City.

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Speaker 1: She told her friend she was going to see a

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Speaker 1: man and that she will be back in the morning.

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Speaker 1: Cell Phone data from her phone puts her last known

365
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:55,159
Speaker 1: location somewhere on Long Island. Days later, a man begins

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Speaker 1: using her cell phone to make taunting phone calls to

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Speaker 1: her relatives. That was another thing that this serial killer

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00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 1: did was. There were a couple instances where he would

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Speaker 1: use the girl's cell phone after the fact to call

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Speaker 1: their friends and family.

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Speaker 2: Too, to say get more recruitment or no, to.

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Speaker 1: Say like to taunt them to he's sadistic. I mean

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Speaker 1: he would say things like, do you know where your

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Speaker 1: sister is? And this is what I did to her?

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Speaker 1: And I saw your friend in a whorehouse and you

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Speaker 1: know Long Island.

377
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Speaker 2: Wow.

378
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Speaker 1: So after they discover Melissa, who was the first person,

379
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Speaker 1: they discover three more bodies in Gilgo Beach. It's Marine

380
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 1: Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, and Amberlin Castello. Their remains were

381
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,479
Speaker 1: located within a short distance of each other in the

382
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,959
Speaker 1: brush just off the highway and had all been wrapped

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Speaker 1: in burlap sacks. Then there were other remains found in

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Speaker 1: a different part of Lowe Island, and they did not

385
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Speaker 1: initially think that.

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Speaker 2: They would not make a connection.

387
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: Initially, not initially because they were not wrapped in burlap.

388
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Speaker 1: It was different. They were dismembered. They found dismembered parts,

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Speaker 1: So it was like, you know, normally, I'm just speaking

390
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Speaker 1: from a serial killer perspective. I'm trying to put all

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Speaker 1: your experience, my experience as a serial killer.

392
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Speaker 2: They do the same things, right, I would think so.

393
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Speaker 1: So when you find four bodies that are wrapped in burlap.

394
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Speaker 2: Saying significantly different ones kind of neatly wrapped or using

395
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Speaker 2: on a word neatly loosely and the other one's clearly gruesome.

396
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: Right, so they were thinking these are two different I

397
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 1: would have thought so things. Marine Brainerd Barnes, who was

398
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Speaker 1: one of the Go Go four, was last heard from

399
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Speaker 1: by a friend on July ninth, two thousand and seven.

400
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Speaker 1: She was twenty five and had traveled to New York

401
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: City from her home in Norwich, Connecticut for sex work.

402
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 1: She said she was leaving her hotel to meet a client.

403
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 1: Investigators later say cell phone records showed her phone was

404
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 1: last used on Long Island.

405
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Speaker 2: So it's kind of wishing we're going backwards. They're finding

406
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 2: these They were looking for, uh, Shannon.

407
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 1: They're looking for Shannon.

408
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 2: Shannon initially right in twenty ten, right because she goes

409
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 2: missing in twenty ten. But then as a result they

410
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 2: found four bodies that went back further as far as

411
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,360
Speaker 2: they're missing dates exactly. And then the Long Island bodies

412
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 2: they find that were dismembered are even further back, even.

413
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Speaker 1: Further back into the nineties. Right wow. So Maureene was

414
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: a single mother of two. Her sister named MISSI, received

415
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: a call from Marine the night of July ninth from

416
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: Penn Station in Midtown, Manhattan. In an interview in twenty twenty,

417
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 1: the sister told forty eight Hours Marine said she was

418
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: going to take the train at midnight, and then her

419
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 1: sister never saw or heard from Marine again. Another victim

420
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: is named Megan Waterman. Megan Waterman was twenty two and

421
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: had traveled to Long Island from Maine for sex work.

422
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: She was last seen at a motel in Hoppage, New York,

423
00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: on June sixth, twenty ten. Lilliana Waterman was just three

424
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: years old when her mother disappeared, and her first televised

425
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: interview in twenty twenty, the daughter told forty eight Hours

426
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: that if she could talk to her mom, she would

427
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 1: tell her how much she loves her. Now. Amber Costello

428
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 1: ends up being the reason that they catch the serial killer,

429
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: so she just it's her. Her story is just more

430
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: in depth because twenty seven year old Amberline Castello was

431
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: last seen leaving her home in Wes, Babylon to meet

432
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 1: with a client on September second of twenty ten. The

433
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 1: client asked her to leave her phone in Purson home

434
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: and return for a very hefty fee.

435
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: Supposedly, that's a flag if I ever saw one.

436
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 1: Supposedly the fee, this is what I've learned, was fifteen

437
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 1: hundred dollars, but it was six times her hourly rate.

438
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: So I don't know why, Like, under what scenario would

439
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 2: would she think that that's a like a like he's kinky,

440
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 2: he doesn't want cell phones around, Like, I don't know,

441
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 2: I just i'd be like money up front, dude. Yeah,

442
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: there's the probably didn't even have the fifteen.

443
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,479
Speaker 1: There's so many times when you read these stories and

444
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: these decisions that these women made that you're just so

445
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 1: sad because.

446
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: There's staring dire straits trying to survive just you know,

447
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 2: ye stay alive with roof of.

448
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: What's interesting about Amberlyn Costello. Her story is that she

449
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: had met with this same client a couple weeks prior

450
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: and he had come to her house. Now, Amberlind Costello

451
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: lives with roommates and one of them his name is

452
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: Dave Shaller, and the other one is name Bear Brodski,

453
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: two males. She meets with the same client, the same

454
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: one who offered her to hefty fee. She had met

455
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: with him weeks prior to that, and he had come

456
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: to the house and Dave and Bear were not there.

457
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: She was home alone. Apparently the arrangement was she was

458
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: only supposed to dance for this client. She was not

459
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: supposed to have sex with him that evening. However, he

460
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: wanted to have sex with her, and I guess he

461
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: was getting handsy with her instead of just doing like

462
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: a lap dance or whatever. And she locked herself in

463
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: the bathroom and she calls her roommate. They come home

464
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: and they encounter this guy inside the house and they say,

465
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: he's like a six foot four ogre looking guy. He's huge,

466
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 1: he's tall, he's got these seventy style glasses on. He's

467
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: got bushy hair, he's got beady eyes. They have a

468
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: kind of an altercation with them, or they're like get

469
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: out of the house and they're like pushing him out.

470
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: Glasses on you no, like seventy style glasses, Like he

471
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: had a very distinct look. Yeah like that. Okay, yeah,

472
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: it's the serial killer glasses. You get him at the

473
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: serial killer shower, right right, so they see him, they

474
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: have an altercation with him, and these two roommates of

475
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: hers are physically pushing him out and they say that

476
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: like he was freaky. They got bad vibes from him.

477
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: I saw that part. So you were watching this in bed,

478
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,959
Speaker 2: because that's what you do at night, you watch She

479
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: watched True Crime in bed. Then she falls asleep to

480
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 2: it and leaves it on all night long, and then

481
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 2: she wonders why she has anxiety throughout the day. Anyway,

482
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: I did, and I remember they were saying how he

483
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 2: almost covered the whole like filled the whole door frame. Yeah,

484
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: and they said, like I guess they were trying to

485
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: make contact with them or tell them to leave or

486
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: whatever they were doing. But they said he would never

487
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 2: make eye contact with them, like he was looking through

488
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 2: them or past them, and never took his eyes off

489
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 2: of her right like he was he had a target.

490
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: They get him out of the house and he gets

491
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: into an Avalanche, which, by the way, is a very

492
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: It's what were you saying earlier, if you're going to

493
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 1: be a serial killer, what kind of car should you drive?

494
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: Not an avalanche?

495
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: No, you should drive like a like a gray, bluish

496
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 2: medium size suv.

497
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: Because it's just because then it's like generic.

498
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: And what was he driving?

499
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: Uh?

500
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 2: What color was it? Well, it was like a black

501
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,959
Speaker 2: or dark or gray? What kind of car was it?

502
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's like a minivan suv Like you can't.

503
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: So you're saying that's the most generic.

504
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, one's gonna be like it was a charcoal

505
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 2: gray raft four right, yeah, no one's.

506
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: Well, this guy gets into an avalanche and it's they

507
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: they called a first generation avalanche. But is there a

508
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: second generation avalanche?

509
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

510
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: I feel like they ended it with the first generation avalanche.

511
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: Then after this occurs, the same guy, the same client

512
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: that they had kicked out that night, reaches back out

513
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: to Amber Cassello again, and this is when he pays

514
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: her a hefty fee to come and meet him.

515
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: Wait wait, this same John reaches out to her and

516
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: wants a second a follow up like yes, session, yes,

517
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: but this time without oh yeah, and and removed the

518
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 2: locks from the bathroom door, please for next to fifteen dollars.

519
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: And make sure your roommates aren't home.

520
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: No kidding.

521
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: So that's when she.

522
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: Leaves, and I'm not faulting her, but she agreed to this.

523
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the roommate, Dave knows that she meets this client.

524
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: He knows that he drives an avalanche. That's the last

525
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: time she's ever seen or heard from.

526
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: Again, did she leave herself at home?

527
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: She did? Yeah. So now Dave interviews with the police

528
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: and he tells the police this is when she disappears

529
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: in twenty ten. Right, he tells the police exactly what happened.

530
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: The guy was creep me out. He's six foot four,

531
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: he drives an avalanche. It's dark green like. He gives

532
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: specific details as to the last person that he saw

533
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: her with.

534
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

535
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: However, nothing happens for like twelve years or something. Anyway,

536
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: let's go on through this timeline. So March to April

537
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: of twenty eleven, there's further remains that are found. So

538
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: authorities widen their search and find additional remains, including a toddler,

539
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: an Asian male, and skulls and limbs linked to partial

540
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: remains found years earlier. The scope of the case grows, now,

541
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: involving multiple victims with varying backgrounds.

542
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: Male and female. Clothing too or something I thought I saw.

543
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is true, and that's what makes me

544
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: because when you say, okay, well, one's a male that

545
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, that doesn't fit the profile. But allegedly

546
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: or apparently according to what I've read and what they've revealed,

547
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: was that he was dressed in women's clothing. The toddler, though,

548
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense other than all I could think was

549
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: maybe she brought her kid with her for some reason. Yeah,

550
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: because her profile fits as far as like age and

551
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: you know, heighten, like all those there. But her daughter

552
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: ended up being a.

553
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: Victims as well, collateral damage.

554
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: Right, So there's a Jane Doe number five, who later

555
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: is identified as Jessica Taylor. First, partial skeletal remains of

556
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: Jessica Taylor were discovered in a wooded area of Manorville,

557
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: New York, back on July twenty sixth, two thousand and three.

558
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: Then on March twenty ninth of twenty eleven, more of

559
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: Taylor's remains were discovered along Ocean Parkway. She was twenty

560
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: when she vanished and had been an escort working in

561
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: New York City. She was found dismembered, with identifying tattoos

562
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: mutilated in an apparent attempt to obscure her identity. So

563
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: the question is are these are these body parts that

564
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,719
Speaker 1: are found later in a different area. It's called Manorville,

565
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: but it's still on Long Island. You know, initially they

566
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: thought it was two different serial killers. However, the argument

567
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: can be made, and I think this was said that

568
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: serial killers.

569
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: Evolve like like they get bored.

570
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: They changed, they you know, they hone in their.

571
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: Skills or they they venture out into new Yeah, they

572
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: ways of killing.

573
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: Right, So there you go, Jane do.

574
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, who because a lot of time has passed.

575
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So Jane Doe number six, who has later

576
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: identified as Valerie Mac. First, the partial skeletal remains a

577
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: Valerie Mac are found who had been working as an

578
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: escort in Philadelphia, and her remains were found in a

579
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: wooded area in Manorville, New York. This is in September

580
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: of two thousand. The twenty four year old was last

581
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: seen by her family in the spring or summer of

582
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: the year two thousand in Port Republic, New Jersey. Then,

583
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: on April fourth, twenty eleven, additional remains of Valerie Mac

584
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: were found along Ocean Parkway. Okay, so these bodies that

585
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: were actually found after the GILG four, they were actually

586
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: murdered before they just there.

587
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: They were just discussed.

588
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: The remounks who were discovered after, However, they were murdered first.

589
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: So the question is, because now we know that it

590
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: was all the same person in the beginning, when he

591
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: was murdering people, he was dismembering them. Then when you

592
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: find the Gilgo four who were murdered later, he's wrapping

593
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: them in burlap. So that's the evolution. And you were

594
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: saying that maybe it was just too it was too

595
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: much work.

596
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just remember, I don't think of this. Yeah,

597
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: maybe it was gruesome. Maybe you really I don't know.

598
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe who knows? Who knows what goes

599
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: on in these people's heads, because I don't know, why

600
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: would you even wrap them in burlap? Like, why would

601
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: you if you have no you know, regard for human life,

602
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: You're just going to kill these people, Why would you

603
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: even bother wrapping them up?

604
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. That's a question for us here.

605
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: What is there? Obviously they had some reason, what is

606
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: their thinking?

607
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. And you know what else

608
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. And I don't know if this was

609
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: ever figured out because I didn't see it or read

610
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: it or hear it anywhere, but I don't know where

611
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: the actual killings took place because he discards their body

612
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: throughout Long Island, but where is he actually killing them?

613
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: We're trying to make sense out of psychos.

614
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: That's very true, kind of tough. So then there was

615
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: another victim that was killed earlier than the go go

616
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: for but found later than the go go for. Was

617
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: first they called her Peaches because she had an identifying

618
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: tattoo of peaches on her. She was later identified as

619
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: Tanya Jackson. She was an army veteran. The thing is,

620
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: she doesn't fit the sex worker scenario. But this was

621
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: also in nineteen ninety seven, so again.

622
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: I met the male didn't either, So maybe this guy

623
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: just calls him up and whatever. You know, he has

624
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: a certain like but if they send someone else or

625
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: ends up being a little bit, he's not going to

626
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: be like, never mind, I'm not going to kill you

627
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: because you're not fatigued.

628
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: Well, the way it looks to me as we go

629
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: through these these earlier murders that happened where these body

630
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: parts were dismembered and they were found in a different

631
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: area of Long Island, seems to me that's when maybe

632
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: he didn't know exactly what he was doing. He didn't

633
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: have like, he.

634
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: Wasn't systematic, he didn't have a plan.

635
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's later when the gil go for are

636
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: discovered that it's systematic. It's like very similar. He has it,

637
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: he has it down. He like contacts a sex worker

638
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: from an anonymous email. He meets them. They all look

639
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: the same, they're all young, they're all petite. He wraps

640
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: them in burlap. It's like in the beginning, maybe maybe chaotic.

641
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: You know, you get older, and he started to get lazy.

642
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: He's lazy, so he's like, I'm this just memory thing.

643
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: It's really tolling.

644
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: One, it might be sex workers because it's easy to

645
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: contact them and they come to me absolutely. And Two,

646
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: a lot of these women that.

647
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: Are already off the grid right that.

648
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: Are sex workers are probably sex workers because they might

649
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: have had a falling out with family and.

650
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: Like they're on the streets for lack of better ways.

651
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they're petite, so it's easy for me

652
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: to over you know, to overtake them very easily. And

653
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: you know, anyway, and was.

654
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 2: A bag, I got potato sack.

655
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: That's what burlap is.

656
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, so that maybe to fit in the burlap.

657
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: Maybe all right. Baby Doe is another body that's found.

658
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: That's the toddler that was found and it's later identified

659
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: as Tanya Jackson's daughter. Near so near the remains of

660
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: Valerie Mac, investigators also find the remains of a two

661
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: year old girl later identified through DNA as Tatiana Dykes,

662
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: who is Tanya Jackson's daughter. She was found wrapped in

663
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: a blanket and showed no signs so trauma.

664
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: She probably brought her child, she needed to. She was

665
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: watching over them her, yeah, and then unfortunately the child

666
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 2: mad man just killed her too.

667
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 1: John Doe who was still unidentified up to right now

668
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: in present time. His body was found on April fourth,

669
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: twenty eleven along Ocean Parkway. He is believed to be

670
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: an Asian male, possibly in his late teens or early twenties,

671
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: and he was found wearing women's clothes and the cause

672
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: of death was blunt force trauma. And then there is

673
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: another unidentified body, Jane Doe, number seven. Her skull was

674
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: found on April eleventh, twenty eleven, off of Ocean Parkway.

675
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: It matched a pair of legs which were found in

676
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: April of nineteen ninety six on Fire Island, which is

677
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: east of Gilgo Beach, Okay.

678
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 2: So it's fair to say that in simple terms, they

679
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 2: find the four bodies as a result of Shannon's mother

680
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: pressing for.

681
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: Looking for Shannon.

682
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: For her search, they find four bodies that are all similar.

683
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: Then they search even further and sometime later they find

684
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 2: older murdered bodies that were completely in a different fashion.

685
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: Murdered and dismembered and spread out, and.

686
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: So they didn't make the connection between the two.

687
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: Well, originally the police chief comes out and does like

688
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: a press conference and says, we don't think that they're

689
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: really so, but they end up figuring out later that

690
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: they are. So finally we get to the point where

691
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: we have found they find Shannon Gilbert. Finally, Oh okay, good,

692
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: So after good, she's dead, well, she's she is dead.

693
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: So in December thirteenth of twenty eleven, Shannon Gilbert's body

694
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 1: is finally found.

695
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: Not long after, after a year and a half.

696
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: Of searching, police locate Shannon Gilbert's remains in a marsh

697
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: about a half mile from where she was last seen

698
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: in Oak Beach. Her body is found near her belongings,

699
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: which had been discovered earlier. Police were reluctant to search

700
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: the marsh for a long time, claiming that it was

701
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: a difficult task. Ultimately, Suffolk County Police declared Gilbert's death accidental,

702
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: suggesting that she died from drowning or exposure after a

703
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: mental health episode.

704
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 2: So in a marsh. Yeah, it was out there in

705
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 2: a marsh, like just chilling and then they drown.

706
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: Well, they they claim that her death was accidental and

707
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: not part of this you know, serial killer, because she

708
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 1: was found in the marsh. And they refuse to search

709
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: the marsh in the beginning because they said it was

710
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: too marshy, and they the marshy, and they didn't want

711
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: to take you know, people and equipment and things out there. Well,

712
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: the mother good for her being relentless. They actually did

713
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: finally search this marsh, which was right in the area

714
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 1: where she disappeared, right it's right next to the house

715
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: where she was. They find her and she has no

716
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: pants on, so they find her genes, they find I

717
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: think a purse or a wallet, and then they find

718
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 1: the body. But then they declare it as an accidental death,

719
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: like she just got hypothermia or something. And then they

720
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: also say something.

721
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: It's just like, oh, like she pants off and it

722
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: was an accidental death.

723
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that you know, they said, you know, sometimes

724
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: when you have a hypothermia, you get hot, you feel

725
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: like you're hot, So she probably took her pants off

726
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: because she was hot.

727
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, someone's in a marsh to begin with.

728
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: This girl's not out running around scared for her life,

729
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: like knocking on doors and screaming, and then just and

730
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: takes her pants off in a marsh like, clearly to me,

731
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: it looks like foul play. The medical examiner said that

732
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: she died. I don't know. I think they might have

733
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: even said inconclusive, but they did not say that there

734
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: was foul play or a homicide. So Shannon Gilbert's mom,

735
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: Mary Gilbert, has her own independent counsel and then they

736
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: have their own medical exam examine the body, so an

737
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: independent autopsy this is done. Later suggested that possible homicidal

738
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: strangulation had occurred, further fueling speculation that she was a

739
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: victim of the same killer. Here's the thing, so she's

740
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: in the house with the John who is not the

741
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: serial killer that killed all of these other women, or

742
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: allegedly he's going on trial soon but allegedly killed all

743
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: these other people. It is not the same person and

744
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: he has not been known to work in kahoots anyone else.

745
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: So it is such a mystery as to what happened

746
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: in that house that night that she freaks out, calls

747
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: nine to one one, says they're trying to kill me.

748
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: Runs around in the same area where all these other

749
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: women have been murdered who are sex workers. She's a

750
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: sex worker and she fits the profile. They find her

751
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: dead in a marsh and then they claim it was

752
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: an accidental death.

753
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 2: It's just this a sloppy police work apparently.

754
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: So. Mary Gilbert, the mother of Shannon Gilbert, who was

755
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: pressing the entire time for the police to find her daughter,

756
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: was murdered in twenty sixteen by her other daughter who

757
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: stabbed her like two hundred and fifty times. Wow. Yes,

758
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: And they did not bring that up in the documentary.

759
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: They I think there was some little blurb that like,

760
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: Mary had died before they had found the serial killer,

761
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 1: so she never knew. So I looked it up. I

762
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 1: was like, how did this woman die? Because I feel

763
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: like they just kind of they made Mary in this documentary.

764
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: I want to made.

765
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 2: Did they make it seem like she just passed.

766
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: Yes, so in this documentary I watch, that's that's significant. Yeah,

767
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: And I was thinking to myself, what is the reason

768
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: that they didn't bring that up in this documentary because

769
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: Mary was heavily a part of this documentary and there

770
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: was a whole movie, like a like a docu saries

771
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: made about her and Shannon, And all I could think

772
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: was maybe they didn't want to highlight.

773
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: They didn't want to take away from the what they investigator,

774
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: or the show was originally covering the investigation of these

775
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 2: murdered bodies and then to kind of have all these

776
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 2: side murders going on, or.

777
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: They didn't want to take away like from the family

778
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 1: because Mary presented like that she was just like really

779
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: you know, they were all really concerned about the daughter

780
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: and they were looking for her and they were like

781
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: this unit. And then to find out that she was

782
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: murdered by her other daughter, like, maybe that just took

783
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: away from this.

784
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 2: So where's this Sarah Gilbert?

785
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: Now she's in prison. She got like she got second

786
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: degree murder and fourth degree something. Her defense claimed she

787
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: had schizophrenia, So I think there was some lesser charge

788
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: because she had mental health issue or something. But anyway,

789
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: that was not in the documentary, and I don't so

790
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: anyway I thought that was I thought that was something

791
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: that well, it.

792
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 2: Kind of paints a little bit more of a picture

793
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 2: of the family, know what's going on and the troubles

794
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: they're having.

795
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: The question is why did it take until twenty twenty

796
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: two to figure out who the Long Island killer was?

797
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: So we got from basically twenty ten, well they were.

798
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: Found twenty ten, twenty eleven, yeah, and then it goes

799
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: all the way to twenty twenty seven years. So there's

800
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: eleven years where apparently maybe there's some investigation going on,

801
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: but no one.

802
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: Well there couldn't have been much investigation going on because

803
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: ten years nothing really happens, right.

804
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: So here's what people think, and this was in the documentary,

805
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: and this makes a lot of sense that there was

806
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: so much corruption within the Suffolk County Police Department. That

807
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: is the reason why that these murders were not investigated.

808
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: So the chief of Police at the time was James Burke,

809
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: and he was actively blocking the FBI from assisting in

810
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: the Gilgo Beach case. So when the bodies of the

811
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 1: Gilgo four and other victims were discovered. There was clear

812
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: potential for a multi jurisdictional serial killer investigation. And what

813
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: that means is, this is when you collaborate. Right, you

814
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: have a serial killer on Long Island, So what do

815
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: you do. You need to collaborate. You bring in the FBI,

816
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 1: you bring in the state police, you bring in private investigators,

817
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: you work together. But James Burke, who was the chief

818
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: of police at the time, was actively shutting everyone out. Right,

819
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: He's like, we don't need the FBI, we don't need

820
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: the state police.

821
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: We don't need to stop taking finger prints, we don't.

822
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 1: Need anything else, we don't need any help. So the

823
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: FBI offered assistance early on in this case, including a

824
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: behavioral analysis, advance forensics, a missing persons report, which is

825
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 1: all standard and very complex serial killer cases. However, Burke

826
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: flatly rejected any federal involvement. There was also, you know,

827
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: they also talk about how there was just a blanket

828
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: you know, memo that went around to the entire Suffolk

829
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,479
Speaker 1: County Police Department that basically forbid anyone to speak about

830
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: the case with the FBI, with other departments.

831
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 2: And what's the basis for that? Doesn't anyone question that.

832
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: I think there was so much corruption and the DA

833
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: was corrupt as well. So I think you've got these

834
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: higher ups in the chain of command. You got the

835
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: top dogs at the very top, and they're making all

836
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: the calls and no one's questioning it because they don't want.

837
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: To be on their radar investigating and das prosecuting.

838
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: Right. According to multiple law enforcement sources and later investigations,

839
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: Burke personally ensured that the FBI was pushed out of

840
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: the case when he became chief in twenty twelve. He

841
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: reportedly feared that the FBI agents would uncover his own

842
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: misconduct and that they would gain access to sensitive files.

843
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: This is where it all starts to come as get

844
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: to the right stuff. Christopher Lobe broke into Burke's car

845
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve and stole a Duffel bag. That can

846
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: he's stills.

847
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 2: Unrelated crime, right, just a guy's opportunity, guy a Duffel bag.

848
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: And right, he's a drug addict, so he's going around.

849
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 2: You know, is there anyone sober in Long Island?

850
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: Yes, so Christopher Lobe is a drug addict from Long Island.

851
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, she has what years was she there?

852
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, but anyway, back to Christopher Low. He

853
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: is a drug addict and he is looking for he's

854
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: breaking into cars because he's you know, looking for stuff

855
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: to sell to get money for drugs. A better place

856
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: to look than he breaks into the Suffolk County Police

857
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 1: chiefs vehicle. It's an suv.

858
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: He's an avalanche.

859
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: She's not a green avalanche. No, it's not. He steals

860
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: a Duffel bag. He takes it home. He's like going

861
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: through it and it has sex toys and porn. But

862
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: then it has like you know, doesn't have an idea

863
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: or anything. Yeah, it has something that I identifies that

864
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: like he's the.

865
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 2: Chief of Badge.

866
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: It's not as badge, but he does have there's like

867
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 1: like business cards in it that are like chief of police.

868
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: You know.

869
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: So when the bag is recovered, because obviously this guy's

870
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: like my car got broken into, and you know, the

871
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: police are investigating to find the guy, they bring him

872
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: in the bag gets recovered, Burke has him in the

873
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 1: you know what is that the witness room or whatever,

874
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: you know, interrogation room, the interrogation room, and he beats

875
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: the crap out of him. He busts him up, you know,

876
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: punches him in the face. I apparently stomps on him.

877
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: You know, It's funny, is how he's like, murders that

878
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: that duffel bag.

879
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: Yes, we're gonna find it.

880
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, spare no expense. Get the FBI and fault get

881
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 2: that fast.

882
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: So Burke assaulted Christopher Christopher Lobe during questioning and then

883
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: orchestrated a cover up, instructing officers to lie to the

884
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: FBI and alter official reports. So the FBI actually did

885
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: come in and investigate this, and they they said they

886
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: got it was like called a blue wall. I guess

887
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: that's when police all kind of banned together and refused

888
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: to speak. So that's what they were up against. They

889
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: couldn't get anyone.

890
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: To come callall.

891
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: They called it like a blue wall. Like a blue wall,

892
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: like that was what they were up against. They're trying to,

893
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: you know, they're innate table like what happened, you know,

894
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: and they just they're a blue wall, like no one

895
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: was speaking. So basically what happened with Burke making all

896
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: these decisions, he blocked the FBI. He delayed key forensic progress,

897
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: particularly in the DNA analysis data tracking from the cell phones.

898
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 1: You know, they're working on putting all this stuff together

899
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: and geographic profiling, but federal resources that could have identified

900
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: pattern behavior, a suspect profile, or putting together evidence were

901
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: not allowed. So he basically was just like, no one

902
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 1: is allowed to have anything to do with this case.

903
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: We don't want we don't want cell phone data, we

904
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: don't want forensics, we don't want a profile, like, we

905
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: don't need any of this. I guess from my perspective

906
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: watching it, he is involved with sex workers. There was

907
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: a woman that came forward that said that he had

908
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: hired her for sex, for oral sex or something in

909
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 1: the car, And I think, I don't think that James

910
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: Burke is involved in the actual serial killer part of

911
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: this story.

912
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 2: Sex worker and he's.

913
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: Involved in the sex worker industry. So this went on

914
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 1: from twenty eleven until twenty twenty two. What is sad

915
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: about this corruption and how deep it goes. The DA

916
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: was involved in it too. I mean, Burke ends up

917
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: being prosecuted and he goes to jail. The DA ends

918
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: up being prosecuted because he's involved in all of this corruption.

919
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: He goes to jail. But there is a twelve year

920
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: time period where they could have been investigating the serial killer,

921
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: and they don't. Oh yeah, because he's done everything possible

922
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: to block anyone from having anything to do with this

923
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: case just because they have a long history of corruption.

924
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to go into it. But Burke and

925
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: the DA have a history that goes back to when

926
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: Burke was like sixteen years old and has to do

927
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: with another case and another murder. And that's when you

928
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: go in.

929
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 2: He's got to fire everyone and start all over.

930
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: Right. So, as we were saying, James Burke was the

931
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 1: police chief, the DA was Thomas Spoda. They worked closely together.

932
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 1: Spoda was a longtime political ally and mentor to Burke.

933
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 1: They have a long history together. He supported Burke's rise

934
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: to police chief. By the way, his rise to police

935
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: chief was like ridiculously fast. Spoda was the DA. I

936
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: think he helped him rise up to police chief. Spoda

937
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: aided in Burke's twenty twelve cover up and worked to

938
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: intimidate witnesses, suppress evidence, encourage officers to lie to federal investigators,

939
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: and to also coordinate the cover up. James Burke and

940
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: Thomas Spodo were later arrested. So James Burke was indicted

941
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen and pleaded guilty to civil rights violations

942
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: and conspiracy to obstruct justice. On November two, twenty sixteen,

943
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: he was sentenced to forty six months in prison and

944
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: three years of supervised release. Now Thomas Spoda, who was

945
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: the DA, was indicted in twenty seventeen on federal charges

946
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:18,720
Speaker 1: including obstruction of justice, conspiracy to tamper with witnesses accessories

947
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: after the fact, to civil rights violations, and on August tenth,

948
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, Spoda was sentenced to five years in

949
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: federal prison and fined one hundred thousand dollars. James Burke

950
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: was arrested again in twenty twenty three at a park

951
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 1: in Farmingville, Long Island, as part of a prostitution sting

952
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: conducted by Suffolk County park rangers. I think he tried

953
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: to get a park ranger to I don't know, perform

954
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: oral sex or something, and he then when the officer

955
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: called police or whatever, he was like. He kept reportedly

956
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: trying to use his status by saying, don't you know

957
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: who I am? And he claimed that the arrests would

958
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,240
Speaker 1: be public humiliation for him, but they he was arrested anyway.

959
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: He was charged with public lewdness and decent exposure and

960
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: initially also criminal solicitation and offering a sex act. So

961
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: basically what this comes down to is there's eleven year

962
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: gap where no one's doing anything on a serial murder

963
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: case in Long Island because all that's going on in

964
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: this Suffolk County Police Department is corruption. And clearly, again

965
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: I don't think James Burke has anything to do with

966
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 1: the murders, and neither does the DA. Murders these murders

967
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 1: and neither does the DA. It has to do with

968
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: his behavior.

969
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: Oh, it was a conflict of interest.

970
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 1: It was a conflict of ventures.

971
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't want to destroy the sex worker industry.

972
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: Doesn't need the FBI investigating sex workers when he is

973
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: involved with the sex workers, So he does everything possible

974
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: for eleven years to keep the FBI and any other

975
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: federal agency out of Suffolk County. He doesn't investigate it,

976
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: nothing happens for all these years. The thing that is

977
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 1: sad is not only is he corrupt and he's just

978
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: a horrible person, and so is the DA. But do

979
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: we know do you think that the serial killer during

980
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: these eleven years did not have any other victims?

981
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: Right? And what other murders and mishaps, and you know,

982
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 2: issues are happening in the sex work with all these

983
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 2: sex workers, right and you know what else cracking down

984
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 2: on it.

985
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: I thought this was really interesting. This case could have

986
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: been solved sooner because they interview another sex worker that

987
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: ended up having a dinner date with Rex Huerman, who

988
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: ends up being the alleged serial killer that we're going

989
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: to talk about in a little bit how they found him.

990
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: But she has dinner with him and he's so creepy,

991
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: creeps her out so much that she texts a friend

992
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: and says, meet me in the parking lot. I'm leaving

993
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: this dinner date because he was obsessed with talking about

994
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: the gil Go murders. And she said to her friend,

995
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: I think I just had dinner with the gil Go

996
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, serial killer. Now. The problem was when they

997
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: asked her in the interview, if you thought that that

998
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: was him, and you were creeped out by this guy,

999
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: why did you not go to the police, And she's like,

1000
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: how can I go to the police. I'm a sex worker, right, right, right.

1001
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: But here's the thing that was interesting to me. When

1002
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: they posed the question, they said, well, if the police

1003
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: would have reached out to sex workers like some type

1004
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: of invitation and said, we're not going to prosecute any

1005
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: of you, we just want to get information about this

1006
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: serial killer. Could you come forward and there'll be no repercussions.

1007
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: Would you have done that? And she said absolutely. The

1008
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: reason I never said anything was because I'm on probation.

1009
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 2: Right right, I get that. I get that.

1010
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 1: So to me, I was like, what a simple solution

1011
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: that if the police department wasn't so corrupt and they

1012
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: just issued something that said, look, there is a serial killer,

1013
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 1: he is targeting sex workers. We can find him if

1014
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: these sex workers will come forward and tell us what

1015
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: they know without any repercussions of being arrested or shamed

1016
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: or humiliated or identified. You right, just come forward. This

1017
00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: could have been solved.

1018
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 2: You're ago, who knows what other crimes and what other

1019
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 2: crap this police officer allowed the police department to overlook

1020
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 2: and ignore and let happen and continue. And this guy's

1021
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 2: you know, he's getting taxpayer money and then he's using

1022
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 2: it on sex workers and yeah, I mean, and you

1023
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,760
Speaker 2: know he's not being respectful towards them.

1024
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: The corruption is unreal in this police department, all right, Anyway,

1025
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: let's get to the final piece of this puzzle. How

1026
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 1: do we finally how do they finally find Rex Huerman

1027
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: who is allegedly the serial killer they how do they

1028
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: get to this point?

1029
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: He found God going forward and confess.

1030
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: To all this crimes, right, but that is not what happened.

1031
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: So Rex Huerman is a fifty nine year old husband

1032
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: and father of two who was arrested on July thirteenth

1033
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three. This is recent, like this serial killer.

1034
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: This is what is so interesting about this case is

1035
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: it's I mean, this guy's been killing since then.

1036
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Coberg was before he got arrested.

1037
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: Right, and he gets arrested in twenty twenty three. So

1038
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 1: a little background on him. Huerman was an architect who

1039
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 1: founded the New York City firm RH Consultants and Associates.

1040
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: He spent his time working in the city while living

1041
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: in his childhood home in New Jersey with his wife.

1042
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: This house that he grew up in in Long Island

1043
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 1: is the house that he has now like with his

1044
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: wife Asa, she's from Iceland. And then he's got two

1045
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 1: weird kids and this house on Long Island in massa

1046
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: Pequoke Park area is dilapidated. The guy's an architect, so

1047
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: you would think he would have some type of pride

1048
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: and like the abode that he lives in. But this

1049
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: house is completely dilapidated. It has not been Yeah, but.

1050
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 2: He's also married and he's not faithful to her. I

1051
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 2: mean you're acting like, you know, he's an upstand, like

1052
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 2: he's not gonna I know, but.

1053
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 1: I say, I'm yeah, but I'm saying that get rid

1054
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: of the ethics and the morals and the value. It's

1055
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,399
Speaker 1: like he's a psychopath, Like that's a given. I'm just saying,

1056
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: the dudes an architect, at least have some pride in

1057
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: your home. I mean, his house hasn't been updated or

1058
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: fixed or in sixty years. It's like the i sore

1059
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 1: of the community. It's just this ugly, dilapidated, falling down, dark, dirty,

1060
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: ugly house.

1061
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 2: Where the neighbors' homes like nice.

1062
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: Yes, all the neighbors homes are nice and their yards

1063
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: are nice. And then there's just him.

1064
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 2: So he looks like a serial killer.

1065
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: Yes, and people, even like the neighbors would even you know,

1066
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: thought he was creepy and weird. I mean he lives

1067
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: I mean he takes his identity as a serial killer

1068
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: very I mean all the way to his house, all right.

1069
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 1: So anyway, how does Rex Yureman finally get caught. What

1070
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: happens is a new commissioner comes into the Suffolk County

1071
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,439
Speaker 1: and it's been twelve years since the gil Go four

1072
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: were found. The new commissioner's name is Rodney Harrison, and

1073
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 1: he creates a task force to find the serial killer. First,

1074
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: the thing that they do, which is brilliant, No one

1075
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: else did this because they were too busy, you know,

1076
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 1: James Burke and the DA are too busy being corrupt.

1077
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: They digitize all of the documents and evidence that has

1078
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: to do with this case so it can be easily searchable,

1079
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: and they had never.

1080
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: Done that right around among various investigators.

1081
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: Right, So they have a task force. They start collaborating,

1082
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: right because they know in order to find the serial killer,

1083
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: they actually do need to work with the FBI, and

1084
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: they do need to work with investigators, and they do

1085
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: need to work with state police. So they digitize all

1086
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: the documents, they start searching through it because now it's

1087
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: easily searchable. And what do they come across as they're

1088
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 1: searching through this? They come across the interview that had

1089
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: to do with Amber Costello and her roommate Dave back

1090
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: in what was it when she disappeared in two thousand

1091
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:49,280
Speaker 1: and ten or eleven, whatever it was, where he says,

1092
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: the last person I saw her with with this was

1093
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: this big, tall dude with be the eyes that was

1094
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 1: six foot four, that had the you know, serial killer

1095
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: glasses on, that drove the avalanche and it was dark green.

1096
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,720
Speaker 1: So what do they do search for someone that fits

1097
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: that physical description that drives an avalanche? And where do

1098
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: they come up with Rex Hereerman's name?

1099
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: There you go? You know how long it took them,

1100
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 2: Well a matter of weeks.

1101
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,959
Speaker 1: Six weeks, Yeah, six weeks to come up with Rex

1102
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: Hereman's name. Once they came up with Rex's name, what

1103
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: do they do? They start? You know, the DA is

1104
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: issuing like subpoenas everywhere, right, they're they're but this is

1105
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: all secret. He doesn't know that they're investigating them, and

1106
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: nobody knows that they have his name. This is all secret,

1107
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: This is all under wraps. But they're looking at his

1108
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: emails and he still, you know, has all these anonymous

1109
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: emails where he's reaching out to sex workers. They get

1110
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: they know he has burner phones. He has like seven

1111
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: different burner phones. So what they do is they're they're

1112
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: creating a chart on a map where his burner phones

1113
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: are active the same time his regular cell phone is active.

1114
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: So we know he has burner phones, and we know

1115
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: that's how he contacts the workers using a burner. Then

1116
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: they create you know, what they call a box where

1117
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: these burner phones are only in this Massapequa area, and

1118
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: then the burner phones are always only in this midtown area.

1119
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: So now they know that it's this person, this killer

1120
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: is going back and forth between Massapequa and midtown Manhattan.

1121
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 2: And then right and then lo and behold.

1122
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 1: Rex Huerman works in midtown Manhattan and also lives in Massapequa.

1123
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: So like everything's just lining up. Once they have this

1124
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: guy's name, it's like all the boxes are checking right.

1125
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: The burner phones, his phone. You know, when the murders

1126
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: took place, his family was on vacation. They can do

1127
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: a timeline and figure out that, like he his family

1128
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: isn't involved in any of these murders because he's murdering

1129
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: when they're gone, and they can figure all of that out.

1130
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: So everything's lining up anyway, then they're like, okay, we

1131
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: want to we got to get this guy, right, but

1132
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: we have to make sure we have all the evidence

1133
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 1: against him. And they want to get him quickly because

1134
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: they got to get this guy off the street. So

1135
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: they need DNA evidence. So what do they say. You

1136
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: can get his DNA as long as it's something that

1137
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:11,439
Speaker 1: he discards, right, because there's no expectation of privacy. If

1138
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: you take a drink and you discard something, you throw

1139
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: it away, you're allowed to search it. That was the

1140
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: same thing they did with Coburger. They followed him and

1141
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 1: tailed him until they threw the trash out, and then

1142
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: they took his trash and they tested the DNA. So

1143
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: they tail rex he or men. He's walking around, he's

1144
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: eating pizza. He throws away a box of pizza. They

1145
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: grabbed the pizza, They take the crust. It has DNA

1146
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: on it. They run the DNA and it comes back

1147
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: that the DNA matches the hairs that they found on

1148
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: the bodies. So now they've got it all and then

1149
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: they send a force and to arrest him and they

1150
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: that's how they find him. They found him in six weeks.

1151
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: I think the first meeting of that task force. That

1152
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: new task force in twenty twenty two was February first,

1153
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 1: and by March fourteenth they had had his name and

1154
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 1: and all the evidence and DNA and everything. So and

1155
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: they also found which is disturbing, but they also found that,

1156
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, he did a lot of Google searches that

1157
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: had to do with very sadistic things and keeping track

1158
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: of the case.

1159
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 2: And now he's in he's locked up.

1160
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: He is locked up. He does not have a trial

1161
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: date at this time. He was initially charged with the

1162
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: murders of three of the Gilg fours. So he was

1163
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: initially charged with the murder of Melissa, Megan and Amber. However,

1164
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: over the following year prosecutors expanded that indictment and in

1165
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: January of twenty twenty four, he was charged also in

1166
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: the death of Marine Brainerd Barnes. In June of twenty

1167
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 1: twenty four, he was indicted concerning the murders of Jessica

1168
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: Taylor and Sandra Costilla, which was a very early murder

1169
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: back in the nineties. And then in December of twenty

1170
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: twenty four he was charged in connection with the death

1171
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: of Valerie Mack. So at this point in time, I

1172
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: believe that he is charged with seven murders. He maintains

1173
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: his innocence and he's entered a not guilty plea. So

1174
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 1: that's where we're at. We're waiting for a trial date

1175
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: on him. The prosecution has DNA evidence. Notably we talked

1176
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: about a hair found on the hair was found on

1177
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: Megan Waterman. They also searched his home and I'm sure

1178
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: and they also dug up his backyard because I'm sure

1179
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: they're looking for more bodies, right, And they're searching his home,

1180
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: probably looking for DNA evidence of these women to see

1181
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 1: if he killed anyone inside of the house.

1182
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 2: Imagine if that someone comes knocking the door and they're like,

1183
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 2: your husband's a murder. We're here to arrest him.

1184
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: No, and they I mean they did, you would like yeah,

1185
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: And they tell me I need to leave because they

1186
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: have to search the house, and then they're going to

1187
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: dig up the backyard because they're looking for bodies.

1188
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: I mean, like, who did I who is this man?

1189
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: Well? That's I mean, I knew he.

1190
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 2: Was weird, but this is a whole different level.

1191
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: I mean, as far as his wife is concerned, I

1192
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: think her first statement was something like, it can't be

1193
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: my husband there's no way he could have done things

1194
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: like this like she would.

1195
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 2: But I'm asking you me, I, what would you do?

1196
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: Well, I would divorce you. I mean there's that let's

1197
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: just go there. I would leave you a few No,

1198
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I feel like there's a serial killer clause

1199
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: that just kind of, you know, nullifies that. But so

1200
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: when investigators they took like three hundred firearms from his house.

1201
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, so he did not update his house at all,

1202
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: no new carpet, no remodeling. It's a completely dilapidated house.

1203
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 1: But he had over three hundred firearms in the basement.

1204
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: They dug up the backyard, but they didn't find any

1205
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: bodies or anything. And I'm not sure if they found

1206
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: any kind of DNA evidence that linked him to any

1207
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: of these women. I don't think. I don't think he

1208
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: was murdering the women in his house. When they searched

1209
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 1: his home, they also recovered a deleted Microsoft word file

1210
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: from a hard drive that was seized from his home.

1211
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: The document was a carefully structured blueprint of serial murder planning,

1212
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: with sections labeled problems, supplies, and dump sites and targets.

1213
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 1: It detailed specific steps and lessons for future offenses including

1214
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,439
Speaker 1: remove head in hands, hit harder, use heavier rope next time.

1215
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: You know, this is what we talked about earlier, where

1216
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: when the older bodies that were found were different, they

1217
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: were killed differently, and they were dismembered than the newer bodies.

1218
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: And then that makes sense that he was actually keeping

1219
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: track of better ways to murder people. He was, I mean,

1220
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: he was making a list, like his serial killer to

1221
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 1: do lists. So the defense says that they have challenged

1222
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 1: the admissibility of his DNA evidence, arguing that the methods

1223
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: used are not yet widely accepted in court. I think

1224
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,479
Speaker 1: I read that this court in New York that would

1225
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: be trying him that they've never used this type of

1226
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: DNA sequencing before and therefore it's not reliable. Like that's

1227
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: what the that's what the defense is going with. His

1228
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: legal team has also asked the court to separate the

1229
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: charges into multiple trials instead of combining all counts into

1230
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: one serial killer case, citing concern of jury prejudice. Prosecutors

1231
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: are opposed to this, arguing the cases share common evidence

1232
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 1: and methodology. The judge has yet to issue final rulings,

1233
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: and no trial date has been set, though it is

1234
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: tentatively expected that he will go to trial in late

1235
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five or early twenty twenty six, so obviously

1236
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 1: we will continue to follow the trial. I mean it's

1237
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: been it's so interesting. I mean to see a trial

1238
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: of a serial killer. I mean, the Karen Reid trial

1239
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: was interesting, and then I thought Coburger was going to

1240
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 1: go on trial, and that was interesting. And now we

1241
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: just have a psychopath it's going to go on trial.

1242
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 2: I like the cases, the true crime cases where it's

1243
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 2: just like one and done, like one one incident, like

1244
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 2: the one the Karen Reid won.

1245
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: You mean, you like just one point of contact and

1246
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 1: can then you just analyze that.

1247
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 2: Instead of like, so this guy is leaving people in

1248
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 2: body parts all over the place, and then it took

1249
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 2: ten years and the police officers corrupt and all that.

1250
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well I it's but it's an interesting

1251
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: thing too.

1252
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 2: It was well, i'll tell you what we learned. What

1253
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: we learn that if you don't have a corrupt police

1254
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 2: of chief or chief of police, that you could have

1255
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 2: solved this murder a rhyme within a matter of months,

1256
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 2: well six weeks. Well, well, it took a while to

1257
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 2: gather all the evidence first and then six weeks to

1258
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 2: review the evidence.

1259
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. But I but what.

1260
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 2: If that chief police like threw away that interview that

1261
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 2: was key? Yeah, I mean, what if he destroyed that

1262
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 2: though I don't want this on that threw it out

1263
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 2: that that is a huge different outcome.

1264
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: And I never thought of that. I mean, I guess,

1265
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: I guess we the only good outcome is that he

1266
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 1: didn't destroy evidence.

1267
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 2: That's where he draws along.

1268
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, I I have morals, I'm not gonna

1269
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fun ethical to destroy evidence. All right, Well,

1270
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 1: thank you for listening to the Gilgo Serial Murder. You

1271
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 1: can watch there's a lot of documentaries on it, so

1272
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: if you want more information, you can watch all of those.

1273
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: It's very calm, alluded, very complex.

1274
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 2: Very a lot of interviews at of a lot.

1275
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: Of interviews with family members talking about the girls, a

1276
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: more insight into their lives and who they were. And

1277
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, so if you have any information or you

1278
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: know other things, or you have questions, I love that

1279
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: you guys always DM about the podcast and you like

1280
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 1: to add and ask questions. It's great. We really really

1281
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: appreciate it. And if you have any other cases that

1282
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 1: you would like us to talk about. I'm always happy

1283
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: to take your suggestions. So thank you guys for listening.

1284
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. Thank you