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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to

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Speaker 1: his politics. And I heard podcasts and unbothered production. Time

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Speaker 1: to get spolitical. Since it seems President Donald Trump likes

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Speaker 1: to pardon criminals, I suppose I shouldn't have been too

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Speaker 1: surprised that Trump announced he is giving a full parton

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Speaker 1: to Pete Rose, who served five months in prison for

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Speaker 1: tax evasion in nineteen ninety. Now we don't know for

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Speaker 1: sure that was what Trump was referencing, but what Rose

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Speaker 1: is most known for is being banned from baseball for

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Speaker 1: gambling on the sport, and Trump's comments set off the

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Speaker 1: possibility of the ban on Rose being lifted and maybe

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Speaker 1: Rose being posthumously inducted into the Hall of Fame. Trump

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Speaker 1: posted on true Social that while sure Rose shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been betting on baseball, Trump reminded everyone to remember the

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Speaker 1: important part, Pete Rose only bet on his team winning. Well,

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Speaker 1: if that's the case, now, Trump said, Rose appears to

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Speaker 1: have worked. Now, Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred is

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Speaker 1: reportedly considering seriously that is a petition from Rose's family

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Speaker 1: to have him removed from Baseball's ineligible lists, which would

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Speaker 1: make Rose eligible for the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 2: What an absolutely terrible idea.

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Speaker 1: Now let's refresh our memory as to why Pete Rose,

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Speaker 1: who had the most hits in Major League Baseball history,

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Speaker 1: received a lifetime ban from Major League Baseball.

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Speaker 3: This is the CBS Evening News.

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Speaker 4: Dan Rather reported Good Evening a baseball bombshell inside and

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Speaker 4: outside a courtroom. Today reports of the strongest evidence yet

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Speaker 4: linking Cincinnati Redd's manager Pete Rose to charges of betting

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Speaker 4: on baseball and betting on his team. As Frank Courier reports,

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Speaker 4: this latest lightning storm broke as Rose pushed to postpone

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Speaker 4: his judgment day.

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Speaker 3: For the first time ever.

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Speaker 4: Today, Major League Baseball openly asserted what others have been

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Speaker 4: saying for weeks.

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Speaker 5: Nine witnesses, in one way or another, give information about

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Speaker 5: Pete Rose betting on baseball or the Reds.

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Speaker 6: There is evidence, substantial and heavily corroborated evidence that mister

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Speaker 6: Rose bet large sums of money on Major League Baseball games,

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Speaker 6: on games of the Cincinnati Reds.

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Speaker 1: Rose was banned in nineteen eighty nine, but for nearly

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Speaker 1: twenty years, Rose denied that he ever bet on baseball,

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Speaker 1: despite the overwhelming evidence that said the opposite. This was

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Speaker 1: Rose in nineteen ninety eight, claiming he wasn't really suspended

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Speaker 1: for betting on baseball.

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Speaker 2: He was suspended for betting on the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 7: After all the turmoil and all the investigators of nineteen

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Speaker 7: eighty nine Baseball signed the agreement was made that there'll

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Speaker 7: be no finding or denial that I've bet on baseball.

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Speaker 7: So then if you read that, and you read Rule

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Speaker 7: twenty one, and you know I didn't bry umpires or

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Speaker 7: I didn't give people gifts, that you have to believe

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Speaker 7: that I was suspended based on admitting that I illegally

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Speaker 7: bet on football and hanging around undesirables, which was wrong.

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Speaker 7: So I mean, that's what that's the bottom line. I mean,

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Speaker 7: that's the bottom line. So I get a kick out

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Speaker 7: of people who say, why'd you sign the agreement? Well,

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Speaker 7: I'll tell you it's very simple. I signed the agreement

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Speaker 7: because all I was looking for was there'll be no

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Speaker 7: fighting that I bet on baseball, and I got that

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Speaker 7: from the commissioner at Barchieomotti's office. That's the same thing

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Speaker 7: I'm going to do if I go to court the

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Speaker 7: following week and prove I didn't bet on baseball.

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Speaker 8: There's no fighting.

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Speaker 3: I bet on baseball.

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Speaker 7: The only difference I'm going to save a half million

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Speaker 7: dollars in lawyer fees and I'm not going to drag

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Speaker 7: baseball through a court proceeding.

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Speaker 1: During the playoffs, Pete Rose was like, if it's a lie,

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Speaker 1: then we fight on that line.

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Speaker 2: We gotta fight now.

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Speaker 1: It is true that in nineteen eighty nine, Rose signed

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Speaker 1: an agreement that permanently banned him from baseball, and in

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Speaker 1: return for accepting the band Major League Baseball, they agreed

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Speaker 1: to not formally declare that he bet on baseball.

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Speaker 2: But really that was just a solid for your boy.

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Speaker 1: Because the Doubt Report, which was the official investigative report

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Speaker 1: into Pete Rose's gambling by chief investigator John Dowd.

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Speaker 2: Laid out all the ugly details.

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Speaker 1: The two hundred and twenty five page report included betting slips, making,

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Speaker 1: telephone records, and other evidence that linked Rose to gambling

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Speaker 1: on baseball and games involving the Reds in nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Eighty five, eighty six, and eighty seven.

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Speaker 1: Pete Rose admitted he bet on baseball multiple times a week,

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Speaker 1: but claimed he never bet against the Reds. He bet

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Speaker 1: on baseball when he was playing and managing. But here

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Speaker 1: was Pete Rose in nineteen ninety one with former NBC

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Speaker 1: News anchor Jane Paulack.

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Speaker 2: Why did you sign that agreement? Why didn't you say? Listen, guys,

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Speaker 2: I'm innocent here.

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Speaker 3: I said that.

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Speaker 9: Then why'd you sign?

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Speaker 7: What's the sense in carrying on a losing battle. The

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Speaker 7: losing battle is they had me because of my emissions.

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Speaker 7: That's why I was suspended from baseball because of the

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Speaker 7: things I admitted, you know, betting heavily on other sports

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Speaker 7: than baseball.

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Speaker 9: People think you went to jail for betting.

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Speaker 7: On baseball, as you're absolutely right, and it's about time

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Speaker 7: that people start getting it right. I was suspended from

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Speaker 7: baseball for betting on football and basketball.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't until two thousand and four of them.

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Speaker 1: Rose had a book to seal that he finally admitted that, yes,

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Speaker 1: he bet on baseball.

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Speaker 10: Rule twenty one in baseball Subsection D.

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Speaker 8: Do you know what that is? Yeah, I'm familiar with it.

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Speaker 10: Any player, umpire, or club, or league official or employee

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Speaker 10: who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game

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Speaker 10: in connection with which the better has a duty to perform,

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Speaker 10: shall be declared permanently ineligible, permanently ineligible. That's posted in

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Speaker 10: every clubhouse in baseball, isn't it.

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Speaker 7: A lot of players don't pay much attention to the

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Speaker 7: fine print.

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Speaker 10: But that's not fine print. That's not in the field

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Speaker 10: fly rule. That's not it's not when the game becomes

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Speaker 10: official and whatever. That's the most important rule. That's the

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Speaker 10: rule that goes to the integrity and to the authenticity

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Speaker 10: of the game. So why would you violate it?

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Speaker 8: Well, I wish I could answer that question, but I

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Speaker 8: just can't. I was wrong. I'm just stupid. The worst

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Speaker 8: thing I ever did in my life. You saying I've

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Speaker 8: had a little bit that for fourteen years too, Charlie.

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Speaker 1: The people who rather for Pete Rose point to the

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Speaker 1: steroids air, the astros cheating scandal, and to the fact

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Speaker 1: that professional leagues have clearly embraced gambling in ways they

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Speaker 1: didn't previously as evidence of utter hypocrisy. But in virtually

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Speaker 1: every pro league there is a hard and clear line

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Speaker 1: drawn when it comes to players gambling on their own game.

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Speaker 1: It invites a variety of credibility issues. In baseball in particular,

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Speaker 1: has a pretty nasty history when it comes to gambling.

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Speaker 9: We have breaking news Major League Baseball has officially banned

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Speaker 9: the San Diego Padres infielder to compete Marcado for life.

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Speaker 9: This lifetime ban comes for gambling more than one hundred

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Speaker 9: and fifty thousand dollars on baseball. He gambled on at

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Speaker 9: least twenty five Pittsburgh Pirates games while he was playing

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Speaker 9: for the team last year. He was on the injured

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Speaker 9: list when he allegedly placed the bets. Four other minor

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Speaker 9: league players are also under investigation for gambling. According to ESPN,

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Speaker 9: they could face one year suspensions according to MLB rules.

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Speaker 11: Ape Mizuhara, interpreter for the Dodgers Dual Threat show Heyotani,

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Speaker 11: was fired by the organization on Wednesday. His dismissal comes

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Speaker 11: after Otani's reps alleged the player had been the victim

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Speaker 11: of a massive theft of money. ESPN reported Mizuhara initially

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Speaker 11: set in an interview Tuesday that O'tani had agreed to

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Speaker 11: transfer money to payoff gambling debts, but then a day

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Speaker 11: later told the network Otani had no knowledge of them.

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Speaker 11: Citing sources, both The La Times and ESPN reported the

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Speaker 11: payments involved a California bookmaker Under federal investigation and that

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Speaker 11: the money transfers totaled millions of dollars.

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Speaker 1: Baseball has had gambling issues that date back all the

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Speaker 1: way to the eighteen sixties, so the sport literally can't

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Speaker 1: afford to gamble with this credibility. The one rule of

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Speaker 1: baseball you cannot break is gambling on the game. There's

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Speaker 1: also the issue of Pete Rose himself, who was the

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Speaker 1: ultimate tough nosed player, one of the best hitters in

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Speaker 1: the sport's history, but he also spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: years in defiant denial and painting himself as a victim.

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Speaker 1: Not getting into the Hall of Fame, even in death,

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Speaker 1: is something Pete Rose truly earned. I'm Jamel Hill, and

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Speaker 1: I approved this message. My guest today is truly one

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Speaker 1: of a kind. He was a great basketball player with

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Speaker 1: a storied career a Syracuse and a solid NBA career.

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Speaker 1: But I hope I'm not insulting him when I say

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Speaker 1: playing basketball might.

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Speaker 2: Be the least interesting thing about him.

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Speaker 1: He's written two books, We Matter, Athletes and Activism and

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Speaker 1: Police Brutality and White Supremacy, The Fight against American Traditions.

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Speaker 2: He podcasts, he writes poetry.

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Speaker 1: A lot of you ask me about whether athletes should

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Speaker 1: feel a responsibility to speak up. Well, this brother has

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Speaker 1: been doing that since he could dribble. Coming up next

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Speaker 1: on politics, Former Syracuse great Eton Thomas, I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me, especially at this

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Speaker 1: important time as we are recording this just a few

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Speaker 1: days after inauguration Day. But before we get into more

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Speaker 1: pressing matters, as they say, Eatin, don't want to start

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Speaker 1: off asking you something that I asked every guest who

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Speaker 1: appears on politics, and that is name an athlete or

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Speaker 1: a moment that made you love sports.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, with so many. I mean, but you know

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Speaker 3: I've had the honor of being able to interview uh,

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Speaker 3: doctor John Harlow's plenty of times. I interviewed them for

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Speaker 3: both books. For my book, We metter Athletes and activism

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Speaker 3: and police brutality and white supremacy. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: grew up with that image of them doing the Black

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Speaker 3: Power salute with his picture on my wall like everywhere.

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Speaker 3: When I was in middle school and I learned about it,

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Speaker 3: I put that poster on my wall, and then through

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Speaker 3: high school, it took it with me to college. You know,

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Speaker 3: I have a picture of him right now in my

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Speaker 3: office right here, you know, because that really symbolized the

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Speaker 3: the you know, his willingness, you know him and Tommy Smith,

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Speaker 3: their willingness to stand up and make a statement in

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Speaker 3: the backlash they received and the way they stood strong,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and everything like that. It's

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Speaker 3: it was just really inspiring for me. So that was

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Speaker 3: a was a huge moment in sports. That will always

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Speaker 3: be huge.

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Speaker 1: Well, that says a lot actually about how you were raised.

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Speaker 1: You said that poster was on your wall in middle school.

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Speaker 1: I take it that we have your mom moves in educator.

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Speaker 2: To thank for that.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, definitely. She you know, just started feeding me

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Speaker 3: different books. You know, I read the Autobiographer of Malcolm

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Speaker 3: X when I was in seventh grade. So then you

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Speaker 3: know when you read, when you read the Autobiopher Malcolm X,

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Speaker 3: your eyes just open and you want to read everything,

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Speaker 3: like you want to learn everything, like why I'm not

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Speaker 3: why am I not learning this in school? Or why

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Speaker 3: am I to start questioning everything? And my mom's the teachers.

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Speaker 3: He just started feeding me books, you know, family books

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Speaker 3: about Bill Russell, about Kareem about you know, just just

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Speaker 3: started feeding me books. And then I just you know,

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Speaker 3: fell in love with the athletes who used their positions

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Speaker 3: and their platforms to be able to speak on what

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Speaker 3: they believe in. And you know, it's it's always interesting,

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Speaker 3: you know, like you know, dealing with somebody with like

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Speaker 3: Muhammad Ali. He's revered now and they put the statues

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Speaker 3: up and they you know what I mean, named the

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Speaker 3: buildings after him. But back then when he you know,

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Speaker 3: said he wasn't going to the war, when he was taught,

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Speaker 3: when he he was friends with Malcolm X, when he

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Speaker 3: was talking everything that he was talking, Yeah, he was

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Speaker 3: public enemy number one. You know, they were not embracing

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Speaker 3: him like they embraced him that out. So yeah, I

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Speaker 3: learned about all of that starting in middle school.

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Speaker 1: So from that standpoint, given how athletically successful you you were,

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Speaker 1: you know, you played a decade in the NBA. You

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Speaker 1: obviously we're a very highly recruited high school athlete. You

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Speaker 1: had a fantastic career at Syracuse.

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Speaker 2: So was it a.

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Speaker 1: Conscious decision that you were going to use your platform

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Speaker 1: in this way or was this just so much a

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Speaker 1: part of your DNA that it was a natural evolution

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just really a natural evolution, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean the people that know me back from Carver

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Speaker 3: Middle School or book to Wathington High School, they know

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Speaker 3: this has been me since then. You know what it

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Speaker 3: was protesting something that was going on in middle school.

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Speaker 3: I remember the Rodney King verdicts came out and you know,

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Speaker 3: I started this whole protest and you know, talking about

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Speaker 3: everything back then we had remember Dare Remember the police officer.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, the drug program. Yeah, that's very challenging.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean, like what about this, this,

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Speaker 3: this and this, and everybody was like, you know, but

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Speaker 3: that's that was know. In at high school at Brooker

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Speaker 3: T I joined speech and debate team, so I was

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Speaker 3: able to like, you know, write my own speeches and

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Speaker 3: you know, big about different topics and things of that nature.

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Speaker 3: And we were we were winning back to back state

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Speaker 3: championships and basketball, but then we was also winning state

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Speaker 3: championships and speech and debate. So that was just really

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Speaker 3: always you know, a part of a part of me

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Speaker 3: just kind of just you know, I played basketball, but

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Speaker 3: I also did this.

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Speaker 1: So as you became more you know, known as a

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Speaker 1: basketball player, as you're sort of climbing the ladder, so

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Speaker 1: to speak. In high school, how awhere were you that

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Speaker 1: sort of how you thought about things and how you

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Speaker 1: saw the world was very different than the athletic culture

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Speaker 1: that you were in.

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Speaker 3: Oh, very quickly, because you know it was It's interesting

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Speaker 3: that you know, the we put a name to it,

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Speaker 3: shut up and dribble, you know, years later, but that

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Speaker 3: was a notion very early on. I used to get

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Speaker 3: a lot of warnings and I always tell you know,

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Speaker 3: I was blessed to be able to become friends and

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Speaker 3: interview about mood Up to our Roof and Craig Hodges,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, I was warned about you guys

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Speaker 3: when I was in high school, like you have to

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Speaker 3: be very careful because you don't want to end up

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Speaker 3: like mood Up to our Roof where they pushed you

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Speaker 3: out the league, or like Craig Hodges. And so, you know,

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Speaker 3: the fear was always kind of, you know, instilled, because

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Speaker 3: they're like, don't rock the boat, you know, don't make

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Speaker 3: people mad. And that's one of the reasons why I

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Speaker 3: wanted to write the book We Matter Athletes and Activism

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Speaker 3: because there was this time when all these athletes started

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Speaker 3: speaking up and I wanted to use it to encourage

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Speaker 3: younger athletes to look up to them to be able

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Speaker 3: to use their platforms the way that they are. So

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Speaker 3: it was a special time, you know. It was it

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Speaker 3: was right after the Travon Martin happened, and you know,

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Speaker 3: the Miami Heat all wore the hoodies and Dwane Wade

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Speaker 3: was talking about it and brand and you know, all

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Speaker 3: these different So I wanted to interview all of them

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Speaker 3: and see what, you know, made them, really push them

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Speaker 3: to really come out on these topics because you know,

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Speaker 3: it was kind of quiet with athletes for a while.

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Speaker 3: You had you know, you had moved up to a

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Speaker 3: room from Craig Hodges and then you had a kind

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Speaker 3: of quiet time for a little while, and then there's

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Speaker 3: just resurgence. So I thought it was just absolutely amazing

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Speaker 3: to see all these athletes using their platforms.

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Speaker 1: Did other athletes you said you received all these warnings,

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Speaker 1: did other athletes try to warn you as well?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Definitely, yeah, definitely all the time. I mean it

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Speaker 3: was interesting, you know because even though I remember playing

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Speaker 3: in a uh, you know, in games and different athletes

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say they are I don't know if

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Speaker 3: they want me to say that, but they would come

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Speaker 3: up to me like, hey, man, I really saw what

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Speaker 3: you wrote. Man, that's that's that's that's dope. You know,

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Speaker 3: I probably can't say it myself, but hey, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean, much respect to you for doing it.

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Speaker 3: And I would get that a lot. And then sometimes

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Speaker 3: I'm like, hey, you know, you got to be careful,

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Speaker 3: you know, really like what you're saying, really like what

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Speaker 3: you and I would get that a lot. And it

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Speaker 3: was always interesting how I will tell this, but so

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Speaker 3: so Bill Walton actually came up to me one time.

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Speaker 3: You know Bill Walton has a special personality, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean. He was always the way like do

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Speaker 3: you like athletes? Like like, what's up to you? But

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Speaker 3: when he came up to me after the game one

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Speaker 3: time and he was like, yeah, I read and I

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Speaker 3: don't even remember what it was. He was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I read some of what you said. I think that's great.

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Speaker 3: You know, he keep doing that, you know, don't don't

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Speaker 3: you know, don't be afraid of anything. He just gave

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Speaker 3: me all these pointers real quick, and then he left,

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Speaker 3: and you know, then he went back to being Bill

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Speaker 3: Walton when I heard him on the commentary. But it's

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Speaker 3: just interesting because you know, there's a lot of there's

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Speaker 3: that notion that you're going to get punished if you

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Speaker 3: do speak out, and I was I was fortunate to

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Speaker 3: never really be in that situation. Even in college. You know,

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Speaker 3: I remember coach Beheim. It was like, Honestly, the first

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Speaker 3: weekend I got up there, I was part of this

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Speaker 3: big demonstration because they started having to let the the

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Speaker 3: campus security use pepper spray. And it's so crazy, that's

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Speaker 3: what we're talking about. Pepper spray, Like that was the

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Speaker 3: big thing. Now they all fully armed and everything, but

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Speaker 3: back then it was pepper spray. But the but the

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Speaker 3: fear was that there was gonna pepper spray all us

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Speaker 3: anytime something happened, and they were just gonna spray everybody.

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Speaker 3: So I was part of this big, big demonstration and

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Speaker 3: it was me and football player Ronald Williams and we're

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Speaker 3: all standing there right in front, and you know, we're

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Speaker 3: all big, and so the newspaper caught that picture and

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Speaker 3: it was on the front of the Syracuse paper. So

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Speaker 3: that was the first weekend I was at Syracuse. So

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Speaker 3: because I brought me in, he was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I know about you speaching the bait, and I know

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Speaker 3: you're very you know, active and you're He's like, and

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Speaker 3: I think that's great. And he gave me a real

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Speaker 3: good piece of advice, he said, but just listen, just

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Speaker 3: remember when you have the backlash, be able to stand

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Speaker 3: firm and support everything that you stand for. And because

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Speaker 3: the black life is gonna come. And he didn't discourage

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Speaker 3: me from speaking out. He didn't say, you know, say

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Speaker 3: be who you are, but just know that you're going

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Speaker 3: to have to defend your position, you know, because there's

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Speaker 3: gonna a lot of people be a lot of people

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Speaker 3: that disagree with And that was really it, because I

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Speaker 3: get that question a lot like that. You know, how

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Speaker 3: did you able to do that in college?

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Speaker 4: That?

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Speaker 3: I mean, same thing with the Wizards late a poland

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Speaker 3: he was really supportive. You know. I didn't have any

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Speaker 3: kind of you know, backlash from him or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: So I was just fortunate that because that could have

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Speaker 3: easily been different if they disagreed with me. I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, if they were stoughts the other way, it

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Speaker 3: could have been very different.

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Speaker 2: So well, I'm sure.

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Speaker 1: You get this question all the time, which is because

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Speaker 1: I get it all the time.

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Speaker 2: And why don't more athletes speak out?

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Speaker 1: I hear, you know, I get this question commonly, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know to what's a degree in which people

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Speaker 1: would be satisfied in terms of number of athletes who

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Speaker 1: spoke out, But as someone who you know lives in

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Speaker 1: that community, is very much a part of that athlete community,

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Speaker 1: and black athlete community in particular, what are some of

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Speaker 1: the reasons that you see that prevent athletes from speaking out? Because,

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Speaker 1: at least from what I've observed, and I'll shut up

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Speaker 1: and let you answer, is that a lot of times

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Speaker 1: they talk themselves out of it where they even know

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Speaker 1: if there will be any consequences, they just sort of

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Speaker 1: assume there will be and then that's it.

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Speaker 2: They're just like, no, I'm not gonna do it.

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Speaker 1: But what have you found in that community as some

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Speaker 1: reasons why more athletes aren't more vocal about the social

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Speaker 1: and political issues they care about.

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Speaker 3: I think there was a resurgence for a little while,

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Speaker 3: you know, especially after George Floyd with the whole country

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Speaker 3: you know, kind of woke up and said, oh wow,

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Speaker 3: you know, police brutality is an issue, you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't I don't know, well, I don't know. It's just

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Speaker 3: because we were in the pandemic and everybody was at

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Speaker 3: home and they was just on video, even though there

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Speaker 3: was a lot of other you know, horrific instances that

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Speaker 3: were on video as well, but that one in particular

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Speaker 3: really struck the nerve with a lot of different people

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Speaker 3: in the country. And you saw a lot of people,

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Speaker 3: you know, not just athletes, but a lot of people

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Speaker 3: just really you know, speaking out around that. But as

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Speaker 3: far as athletes in particular, you know, it's interesting because

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Speaker 3: you have a situation like a like a Colon Kaeperneck

401
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Speaker 3: and he, you know, took a knee and was very

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Speaker 3: specific about why he was taking it. It wasn't like

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Speaker 3: it was ambiguous, like nobody knew what his issue was

404
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Speaker 3: or what was going on. He was very specific. You know,

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Speaker 3: he said it was police brutality, the political process. He

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Speaker 3: thought that there should be you know, more options, and

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Speaker 3: you know, he said racism, he said it, but not

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Speaker 3: the veterans, not that. He was very specific. And immediately

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Speaker 3: it just got hijacked and it was like, you know,

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Speaker 3: he's disrespecting the veterans, he's disrespecting this, he's anti American.

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Speaker 3: And it was so much backlash immediately, mainly coming from Trump,

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Speaker 3: and then right after that, he was like if that

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Speaker 3: sob off of the field, he's fired. He should never

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Speaker 3: do it. And it's so interesting because now we're dealing

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Speaker 3: with a situation where you have Elon Musk giving a

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Speaker 3: Nazi salute, but everybody's okay with it. There's no problem.

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Speaker 3: Though he didn't really mean it that way. It might

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Speaker 3: have looked like that, but it wasn't really what it was.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, wow, But the backlash that happen

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Speaker 3: it received when he specifically said what he was doing,

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Speaker 3: so athletes see that, and it was done that way,

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Speaker 3: I believe to really send a message to other athletes

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Speaker 3: kind of just to stay in line, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean that if you go beyond this, you know

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Speaker 3: this will also happen to you. The same thing with

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Speaker 3: Kyrie Irving, you know, and going back to the Elon

427
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Speaker 3: must thing. The ADL has no problems with Eli Musk.

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Speaker 3: They said, hey, you know, it wasn't anti Semitic and

429
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Speaker 3: there was nothing wrong with it. Nothing to see here,

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Speaker 3: go about your business. But you remember the hell they

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Speaker 3: put Kyrie Irving through when he shared that link.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean they made him do a ten

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Speaker 1: point power presentation, serve to be back in the league.

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Speaker 2: And you know, listen, I'll be frank.

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Speaker 1: I was while I was critical of the link he

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00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: shared because I watched that movie and it's terrible. I

437
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: never thought the punishment fit the quote unquote crime. Never

438
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 1: And I was just like, you know, there's one thing

439
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 1: to post something in error, and especially if you know Kyrie,

440
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: it's not really in his character.

441
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 2: He's not a hateful person.

442
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 1: Like he's very observant, he's very knowledgeable, he's very thoughtful,

443
00:21:58,560 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 1: and he I thought.

444
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: He just made a mistake. Okay, that's it.

445
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: Nothing else to see here, But between it felt like

446
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: extortion from the Anti Defamation League.

447
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 2: That's the ADL.

448
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: If people want to know, it felt like they were

449
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: extorting him to try to prove a point. And to

450
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 1: your point, and you pointed this out on social media,

451
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: here's Elon Musk, who is arguably the most powerful person

452
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: in the world right now because he is our president

453
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: in his back pocket. Here he is doing a fall

454
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: on Nazi salute, not just once, but twice, right, And

455
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: this would be it would be maybe easier if you

456
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 1: wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, if

457
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: he didn't boost Nazi content on his platform all the time.

458
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: So he's very much staying in line with the things

459
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 1: that he supports. And that's why people are like, oh, yeah,

460
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 1: that was definitely a Nazi salute. And by the way,

461
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: if the people were actually nazis considered a Nazi salute,

462
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: it's a Nazi salut. It's just it doesn't there's no

463
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: guesswork to it here. People, he did that and on stage,

464
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: and this is somebody who will be very much be

465
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 1: entrench in American government. But you know, getting back to

466
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: your point, so you see all these signal boosts, what

467
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: happened with Kyrie Colin Kaepernick, these are in your mind,

468
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: these are signals, loud signals being said to athletes, Hey,

469
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: you better stay in your place, if you if you

470
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 1: want to maintain this lifestyle in this fame that many

471
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: as many of them see it that we've allowed you

472
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: to have.

473
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 3: No, definitely, I mean, and going back to Kyrie with

474
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 3: the documentary, because I watched it as well, I mean,

475
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 3: he said, he tweeted out the link and said, listen,

476
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 3: I don't agree with everything in here, but I think

477
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,959
Speaker 3: that everybody should watch this. There's a lot of good

478
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 3: information in here. He's like, I think you should watch

479
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 3: this and that was enough to say to bring the

480
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 3: you know, theory of the ad L. But you know

481
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: what I mean, the league. Remember they're going to kick

482
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 3: him out the league. The conversation on around social media

483
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 3: and around it's like, oh, no, he doesn't even deserve

484
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: to be in the NBA anymore.

485
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 2: And I'm like, wow, that's yeah. That that advance reads

486
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: a lot like.

487
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 3: You said, everything that he had to do, he had

488
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: to meet with the specific you know, Jewish leaders of

489
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 3: the ADL's preference and their choice. He had to donate

490
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: to the specific organizations of his choice, he had to

491
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 3: sit down way That's why I.

492
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: Said it felt like extortion. I was like, oh, were

493
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 2: they extorted?

494
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 3: Guess? So to go back to the question, as you

495
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 3: see something as horrific as a genocide that's happening, that

496
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 3: was happening in Israel, and I'm sure there are a

497
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 3: lot of players because I see them and I get

498
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 3: the messages from them when I'm tweeting something and posting something,

499
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: or they say, Okay, I don't know if I could

500
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 3: even like this, but you know what I mean, like

501
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 3: they're not even Dwight Howard said he tweeted Free Palestine

502
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: and immediately got all these calls and everything. No, no, no,

503
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 3: you can't say that, you can't do it, And I'm like, wow. So,

504
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 3: so when you have scare tactics like that happening, then

505
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: you're gonna have athletes being advised not to speak out,

506
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 3: to be careful what you can speak out. There's certain

507
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 3: topics that you really are not allowed to have a

508
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 3: position on, and Israel and Palestine is one of them.

509
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 3: And it's one of those things where you know, there

510
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 3: was no there was no shock that there was silence

511
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: on that top For me personally, after everything that happened

512
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 3: with Kyrie, you know, I think that it was encouraging

513
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: to see athletes talk about police brutality. I did, you know,

514
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 3: a lot of work with the family members of the

515
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 3: victims of police brutality. So Emerald Gardner, you know, I

516
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 3: wrote wrote her book with her, and you know, she's

517
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 3: telling her stories and athletes really and it's interesting because

518
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people with the criticism like, oh, what

519
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 3: does it mean for an athlete to wear a shirt

520
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 3: or something like that, And all you have to do

521
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 3: is just listen to them, you know, I mean, listen

522
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 3: to the family members of the victims of police brutality,

523
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: Like Emerald said at that time when her father was

524
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 3: killed by Daniel Pattalao and NYPD, every time she turned

525
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 3: on the news, turned on anything, it was just people

526
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 3: justifying why her father deserved to die, like he was

527
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 3: doing this wrong. He was selling a loose cigarette and

528
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 3: he wasn't you know, he didn't respond quick enough when

529
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: they said, you know, on the ground, whatever it was,

530
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 3: there's different reasons of why. So then you have a

531
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 3: Derrick Rose and Kyrie Irving and Lebron wearing that I

532
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 3: Can't Braeve shirt and support of her. She said it

533
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 3: met everything, you know, so talking to two family members,

534
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 3: it means a lot when athletes speak out, and that's

535
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 3: why I really wanted to show people, you know, listen

536
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 3: to them like there, it means a lot. You know.

537
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 3: People will say it's not that important, it's not really activism.

538
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 3: I've gotten to debates with Bill Rowden, who I have

539
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 3: a lot of respect for, but he's like, but isn't

540
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: really activism to wear a T shirt? Is it really

541
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 3: activism to do a tweet? I'm like, activism has many

542
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: different forms, you know what I mean? And the technology

543
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 3: now is different now, so yes, it means a lot

544
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 3: to them, and athletes really stepped up well in a

545
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 3: lot of different ways. Different NBA players, football players, and

546
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: rallied around different different victims of police brutality of their

547
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 3: family in a really significant way. So I thought that

548
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 3: was beautiful to see.

549
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would say, obviously, like one of the

550
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: cases that I think or examples that fit in there

551
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: is Trayvon Martin because people, you know, maybe some people

552
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: either have forgotten or weren't really kind of experiencing it

553
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: in real time, but you know, the Samford police, they

554
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: had no initial thoughts of charging George Zimmerman with anything.

555
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: And when the Miami Heat wore the hoodies to symbolize

556
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: what had happened to Trayvon Martin, to bring our attention

557
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: to what was happening in Sanford, Florida, that changed the game.

558
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,239
Speaker 1: And as you said, even though to some people they

559
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: might say, Oh, it's just a T shirt, or it's

560
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: just a hoodie, or it's just this, I was like,

561
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: those symbolic gestures not only mean a lot to the families,

562
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: they also they create a sense of movement that happens

563
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 1: behind those there are signal boosts. That's so loud that

564
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: it's hard not to demand the impact. Now, you the

565
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: one thing about you when you speak out, you don't

566
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: pick the light stuff, all right, you don't pick you know,

567
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: the sort of the I don't No issue is easy,

568
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: but you don't pick that.

569
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: Okay, that's clearly wrong. Anti war like you, you picked

570
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 2: this up.

571
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: You know, as you mentioned the conflict that gaysa you know,

572
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: very things that are very emotional that tend to create

573
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: a lot of I hate to say controversy because some

574
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: of it shouldn't be controversial, but you know they did

575
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: to drum up a certain kind of backlash. So has

576
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: there ever been a time where you have stepped out

577
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: there and you kind of regretted speaking.

578
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 3: Out, not regretted, maybe surprised at the level of backlash.

579
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: You know, I remember when I when I first spoke

580
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 3: out against the invasion of Iraq, and this is why

581
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 3: I was here playing with the wizards. And you know,

582
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: I've spoken different. You know, small rallies around the city.

583
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: You know in d C. That's always something going on, right,

584
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: So I would I would do poetry and spoken word.

585
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 3: O would you know some rallies would be fifty people.

586
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be a few hundred, but there was one

587
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 3: in particular that was a huge rally. And I didn't

588
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 3: know how big it was before I was. I was,

589
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: you know, to go there and speak. Until I got there.

590
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: I was like, oh wow, that's pretty big. So you know,

591
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 3: I saw Corner West, I saw Michael Moore, you know

592
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: what I mean. They showed the list and like, you know,

593
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 3: I'm up next here and I was like, oh wow,

594
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: this is very big. So I did I. I spoke

595
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 3: there and that was and it's so interesting putting into

596
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 3: perspective here. That was when we used to still get

597
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 3: like letters delivered to the to the to the arena,

598
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: and MJ was there, so I played with m J.

599
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 3: So he would get these big boxes of letters all

600
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 3: the time, you know what I mean, Like every day

601
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: it was MJ.

602
00:29:54,280 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 12: Is confused, Michael Jordan and so you know I would

603
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 12: get a few little letters from somebody from Syracuse or

604
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 12: somebody from Tosa or something like that.

605
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 3: But you know, my staff wasn't very big. But after

606
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 3: that I started getting some boxes and looking through the letters,

607
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: I was like, oh wow, people are very upset, you

608
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 3: know what I mean. And I started seeing, you know,

609
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: you should go back to Africa. You know, you don't

610
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: deserve to be in America. You're an ungrateful athlete. You

611
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 3: know this that, and it was really like strong. I

612
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: was like, Wow, I'm gonna need some security. These people

613
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: are really upset. And that was literally before social media,

614
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: which is so crazy, you know, being social media wasn't

615
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: even around me. And like that's when I noticed, you know,

616
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 3: people really look at athletes and they look at the

617
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: power of athletes and the athlete voice and they fear that.

618
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 3: So one of the things that that you know, I

619
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 3: was fortunate to interview Kareem and that was his point,

620
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: and we met her as his activist, and he said,

621
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: if the athlete voice wasn't and I'm paraphrasing, but he said,

622
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: if the athlete voice wasn't so powerful, then Trump wouldn't

623
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 3: worry about what Lebron says or what you know, this

624
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: athlete says, or what Captain they've taken to me would mean.

625
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 3: But they're scared of the influence that they had. And

626
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 3: you know, when he said that, I looked at it

627
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 3: in a different perspective. I'm like, oh, so it's called

628
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 3: a compliment, you know, because they wouldn't care if it

629
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: wasn't impactful. And so the backlash, you know, coming. If

630
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: an athlete is going to speak out, he should expect

631
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 3: backlash that should happen. They should not be a surprise that,

632
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I can't believe that some of these

633
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 3: fans that you're me on are now turning on me.

634
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 3: That should be expected, because you know, it was interesting.

635
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: Russell Westbrook said this when I interviewed it the way

636
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 3: better he said, and it was after the Terrence Crutcher.

637
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 3: So Terrence Crutcher was someone who got killed in Oklahoma,

638
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: right in my home city of tos Oklahoma, and I

639
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 3: interviewed his sister with differity. Crutches was absolutely amazing the

640
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 3: work she's doing. But Russell Westbrook was saying that, you know,

641
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: whenever I'm looking around and all of these over whom

642
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: to say thunder fans or cheering my name and you know,

643
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 3: wearing my jersey and everything like that. But once I

644
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: leave the arena, you know, and if my car was

645
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: broken down at the side of the road like Terrece

646
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: Crutcher's was, is that how they would treat me if

647
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: they didn't know that I was Russell Westbrook, that they

648
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: just was cheering. And it's that connection to victims of

649
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 3: police brutality that athletes were making that were really resonating.

650
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: You know, I was doing a lot of speeding in

651
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: different colleges, and you know, it shouldn't be like this.

652
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 3: You shouldn't have to have an athlete say something for

653
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: you to now humanize black people, to say, oh wow,

654
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: so I see Dwayne Wade said this. So now it's

655
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 3: impactful some way. But that's exactly what was going on.

656
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: When when they wore the hoodies. Jamaris Fulton, who was

657
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 3: terres Crutcher's brother, I mean Martin's brother, he said, you know,

658
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 3: the police, the local police. This is when I interviewed him,

659
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: and I'm paraphrasing him, but he said the local police

660
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 3: was done with the case. They were not going to

661
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 3: do anything else. They were like, this is just a

662
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 3: black man that was killed, you know, and you know,

663
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: the media wasn't going to cover it. They said that

664
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 3: the only people that covered it was Roland Martin and

665
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: one other person. I don't remember what he said. He said,

666
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: but the local media was like, that's not really a story,

667
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 3: you know. But then once the Miami Heat or the

668
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: hoodies and Dwaye Wade was talking about it and Lebron

669
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: was talking about it. Then all these people are like,

670
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: oh what what has them so riled up that they're

671
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: making this personal connection. And when Dwane Wade said, my

672
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 3: sons wear hoodies, He's like, all the time, they love hoodies,

673
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So you're gonna tell me

674
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 3: that my son is going to be looked at a

675
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: criminal because he because he wears a hoodie, because remember

676
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 3: Harado said, you know that y'alln't wear the hoodies and

677
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 3: the other this would happened. But making that personal connection

678
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 3: and then people were like, oh, let's look and see

679
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: what happened here. Then the news started covering it more.

680
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 3: Then it started being pushed in the police. So so

681
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 3: the impact that just an athlete saying something can have

682
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 3: is amazing. And I will say it shouldn't be like that.

683
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 3: It shouldn't taken apthlete saying something from America to care

684
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 3: sure of America to care about this this, you know

685
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 3: what I mean, young black man who was killed by

686
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 3: the police. But that's that's the reality.

687
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 2: And it was one of on on Twitter.

688
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: It was one of the early social media inspired movements

689
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: because if you remember, people were changing their avatars to

690
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: them in hoodies. And you know, I think the other

691
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: point that Dwayne made, Dwyane Wade made that was especially

692
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: impactful was he made the point about how his sons

693
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: they walk around in neighborhoods. You know, these athletes live

694
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: in gated communities, they live in neighborhoods where it's mostly

695
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly white people. And so a young black boy, or

696
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 1: a young black man, or even a black man period

697
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: that is walking around in these neighborhoods with a hoodie

698
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: on is going to stand out and it's probably going

699
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: to create a level of fear among some of the

700
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: other residents. So they very easily could encounter a George

701
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: Zimmerman like situation, because that was the whole essence of

702
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: it with Trayvon, is that George Simmerman decided that Trayvon

703
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: Martin was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be. And black

704
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: people get policed in this manner all the time where

705
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: we constantly have to be showing our freedom papers all

706
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: the time.

707
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: And so that also is why I think it resonated so.

708
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: Heavily with the athlete black athlete community because they're in

709
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 1: these communities where they're not a lot of black people

710
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: in them, and so any moment, now if some Karen

711
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: rolls up on them or whatever, like, things could go left,

712
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: you know, quite easily. And I think that was able

713
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: to create sort of a different picture in people's minds. Okay,

714
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: so we go from the Miami heat wearing the hoodies

715
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: to you know, to this big movement on social media

716
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: where you had white people with hoodies putting that in

717
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: the avatar to where we are we are now where

718
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: we have people giving full all Nazi salutes and people

719
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: trying to excuse.

720
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: Those, and we're of course in line for Trump two

721
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 2: point oh.

722
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: We have him back in office and he attacked black

723
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: athletes a lot in his first term. What is your

724
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 1: level of expectation for how black athletes in particular will

725
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: handle another Trump term? Because I'm thinking about this in

726
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: this moment where Snoop and Nelly and Rick Ross black

727
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: entertainers call a lot of backlash for performing during his inauguration,

728
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: and we see like they had no problem jumping on board,

729
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 1: and it's kind of switching up. How do you see

730
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: the black athlete community responding to Trump a second time around? Well,

731
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: should we expect to see Snoop Dogg Nelly type behavior

732
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: from athletes, Well.

733
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 3: Hope not. You know, it's you know, I was kind

734
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 3: of I was kind of surprised to see, you know,

735
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 3: and a lot of people were saying that I shouldn't

736
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 3: have been surprised, but I was a little surprised to

737
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 3: see Nellie say what he said, you know, and Snoop

738
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 3: Lad he said, and you know it was Soldier Boy.

739
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 3: I don't know social Boy's politics or.

740
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 12: What do you but.

741
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 3: When he was on, you know and doing his rant

742
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: and saying, you know, Obama never did anything for me,

743
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my gosh, are you serious.

744
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: You know, it was just it's it's it made me

745
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: sad to hear. You know, you remember the movie Drop

746
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 3: Squad Spike Lee. I was like, you know that reprogram,

747
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 3: you know, for somebody, just teach them, you know, let

748
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: me show you why, why, why you should not feel

749
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 3: this way, like like just know this history, know what's

750
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 3: going on, and it's it's it's just interesting when you're

751
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 3: looking at Trump and he is doubling down on everything

752
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 3: and even from the the from day one, you know,

753
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 3: there's so many things that you can talk about. I'm

754
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: trying to figure out which one to talk about first,

755
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 3: but even take away the jener sinks insurrectionists. You know,

756
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 3: he for the longest said, I'm not you know, involved

757
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 3: in that. I didn't. I didn't you know, condone it.

758
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: I did everything like that. And the first thing he

759
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 3: did was, you know, clear all of them, you know,

760
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: just about all of them, all the insurrectionists. And and

761
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 3: interestingly enough, you know, when I interviewed you from my

762
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: book Place Battalian white supremacy, that was one of your

763
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 3: points there was pointing out the differences of what would

764
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 3: happen if all black people stormed the capitol like that,

765
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 3: and he was like, well, you know, even if we

766
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: have the thought bubble to do that, we were taken out,

767
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 3: you know, get arrested, wouldn't know anything. So so hearing

768
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: you know, the same people that you know scream law

769
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: and order and scream you know, all these different things.

770
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,959
Speaker 3: Whatever a policeman kills an unarmed black man a black woman.

771
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: Now say everything that we saw on January sixth was

772
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,879
Speaker 3: okay because it was done by them. And that's where

773
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 3: the white privilege comes in. You know, even though that's

774
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 3: a topic that a lot of white people still feel

775
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 3: uncomfortable talking about. But that's the reality that you know,

776
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 3: one of the points that you made, you were saying

777
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: that you know, they didn't even have their faces covered,

778
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: they didn't have their hoods on.

779
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: You know, they went in there loud and proud, and

780
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 2: they did not care.

781
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 3: Look.

782
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: The last thing image that is stuck with me is

783
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: my man sitting at Nancy Pelosi's desk with his friend right,

784
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 1: and he's like, he has she been there, he would

785
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: have he would have tried to assassinate this woman. He's

786
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: so comfortable in his whiteness that he like, not only

787
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: am I going to storm the Capitol, I'm gonna sit

788
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: at the Speaker of the House's desk with my feet

789
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 1: up and tell her.

790
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 2: The message that I'm sending that this ain't even your country.

791
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: And it's just like the audacity of it was just like, no,

792
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: they did that because they probably new. And I remember

793
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: at the time when all of them were saying like

794
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: Trump's gonna partners, Trump's gonna partner, I was.

795
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 2: Like, they are stupid for beloving this, and I have

796
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 2: to say I was.

797
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: I have never been more wrong about anything, because he

798
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: has partnered all of them, even the ones that specifically

799
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 1: attack the police.

800
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 2: He's partner them too. So it's blue lives matter unless

801
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: they are beaten down black and brown.

802
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 3: Right. But that but that's the that's the white privilege though.

803
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: That's why they didn't need to cover their faces. That's

804
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 3: why they weren't in there worried about if they were

805
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 3: on camera or not. They knew that they were gonna

806
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 3: be okay. So so to answer your question, I don't

807
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 3: see how anyone athlete or not could be signing about this,

808
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 3: you know, to be honest with you, when you when

809
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 3: you see something of this magnitude, like everybody should be

810
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 3: you know, even Republicans should be like, wait a minute,

811
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 3: this isn't right, Like none of them were gonna be

812
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 3: held accountable, like they shouldn't even you know, accept this

813
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 3: or condone it. And you know, seeing the different it's

814
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 3: it's it's amazing to see because I as well didn't

815
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 3: didn't think that they were going to be pardoned. I

816
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 3: honestly didn't. But but to going forward, I think the

817
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: athletes are in a unique position now, especially having you know,

818
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 3: everyone having their own social media and having their own power,

819
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 3: their own ability to be able to say whatever they

820
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 3: want to say, whenever they want to say it, and

821
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 3: they don't have to go. So going back to when

822
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 3: I spoke out against the war in Iraq, I first

823
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 3: went to Washington Post with my story and they were like, oh, no,

824
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 3: we can't, we can't, we can't run that. I was like, really,

825
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: And I went to Washington Time they were like, no, no, no,

826
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 3: we can't run that either. And I was like, y'all

827
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: are literally following us after every practice, after every everything,

828
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 3: trying to get a quote, trying to get something. But

829
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 3: now that I have something meaningful that I want to say,

830
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 3: you don't want to run it. And you know, I

831
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 3: remember my guy Dave's iron. He's the one who he

832
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 3: was working like the Prince George County Post or something

833
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 3: like that, and he did a story on it and

834
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 3: and that's where it went from there. But they said, no,

835
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: athletes today don't have to wait on anybody to run

836
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 3: their story. They could be their own person. They can

837
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 3: get on their own social media. And so I say

838
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 3: that to say I hope that athletes continue using their

839
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 3: power and their platform and ability to be able to

840
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 3: speak out that we saw and you know, twenty twenty

841
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 3: we saw with George Floord, and we saw after the

842
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 3: Traymon Martin. You know, it's there's too much going on,

843
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 3: there's too much power in the athlete voice for athletes

844
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 3: to be signing.

845
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 6: Now.

846
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 3: I don't want to put it all on athletes, because

847
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 3: I think everybody should be using their voices. Everybody should,

848
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 3: you know, have an objection to what they see going on,

849
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 3: and they're so I mean, you just look at these

850
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: executive orders that you could just go down the list.

851
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 3: I mean, from changing of they spent so much time

852
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 3: on saying we're going to make lives better for everybody.

853
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 3: We're going to lower the grocery prices. You know, the

854
00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 3: price of eggs is gonna go down and all that.

855
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 3: And then now people are gonna have to pay more

856
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 3: for the prescription medicine. You know, that's that's going to

857
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 3: really affect a lot of people. A lot of people

858
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 3: in this country are on some kind of prescription medicine.

859
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: So you all should be out raised as well. You

860
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: know that they're in every every step of everything that

861
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 3: he's doing. Go from immigration and you know, now if

862
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 3: you're if you're born here, that you you're you're you're

863
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 3: not automatically a citizen if you're if you're born here,

864
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 3: but if your parents don't have all those direct things.

865
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 3: I think everybody should be speaking up, and everybody has

866
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: their means to be able to speak up. And the

867
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 3: time of the silent people, you know, it's it's it's

868
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 3: people want to be able to hide in silence. But

869
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 3: then at the same time say, don't group me with them,

870
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 3: and I don't think you can do that, you know

871
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 3: what I mean. I mean, I've had a lot of

872
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 3: you know, social media people could you know, comment and

873
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 3: say if they disagree with something that you posted or

874
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 3: something that you say, or they can mensage you privately

875
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 3: or anything like that. And a lot of times I hear,

876
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 3: you know, because I presented the question, I was like,

877
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 3: could you imagine if President Obama didn't put his hand

878
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 3: on the Bible when he was being sworn in the

879
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 3: level of backlass that it would be. And I said, well,

880
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 3: you know, you don't hear anything from white evangelicals. You

881
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 3: don't hear anything any objection. And Trump didn't put his

882
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 3: hand on there, you know, but you don't hear anything.

883
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 3: I was like, why is that? And I said, well,

884
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 3: because you know that a lot of times there their

885
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 3: focus isn't necessarily to follow the teachings of Christ. It's

886
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 3: based on white supremacy. So I got a lot of

887
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 3: messages to say, well, don't put us in the back

888
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 3: of Christian box or the magic you know, those are different.

889
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 3: We're white evangelicals, but we don't agree with some of

890
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: that stuff either. I was like, well, I should be

891
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 3: able to see on your social media or something, you know,

892
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 3: some type of evidence that you're different, right, I should

893
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 3: be able to see it. You just saying that you're different,

894
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 3: But you're going a lot oh what everything that that's

895
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 3: not doing anything. So you know, I'm answer your question

896
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 3: a long way. I think everybody should be vocal about

897
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 3: something that's going on right now and that's gonna be

898
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 3: going on for the next four years. Not just athletes,

899
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 3: but I think everybody should be both.

900
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 2: That was a very thoughtful answer. You dropped mini bars.

901
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna take a quick break and I'm gonna

902
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: come back, and when we come back, I'm gonna tell you.

903
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: Why I disagree with you.

904
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: I slightly disagree with you, and I also want to

905
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: get into your relationship with the late John Thompson and

906
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: have a basketball conversation with you, because you are particularly

907
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: suited to answer some basketball questions that I have. But

908
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right

909
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: back with more with Eton Thomas. All right, So here's

910
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: my disagreement. What I love talking to people like you

911
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: is that you have faith, you have hope, still positive

912
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: me for a long time.

913
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: You know, trusty veteran journalists.

914
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 3: That is day to day.

915
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: It's day to day.

916
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: What I've already noticed is, and this is very common

917
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: in fascist governments, a fascist regimes, authoritarian governments, the capitulation

918
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: starts before.

919
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 2: They're even asked.

920
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: And I have seen already that sports this time around

921
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: is going to embrace Trump in a totally different way.

922
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: And in part because even though, as you said, athletes

923
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: now can directly take their message to their own platforms.

924
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,240
Speaker 1: They don't have to wait on some newspaper to say something.

925
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: But I think the fear that athletes feel in this

926
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: environment because you have between Martin Zuckerberg, elon musk TikTok. Now,

927
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: all the biggest social media platforms in the world are

928
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: all owned by people who align themselves with Donald Trump.

929
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: And when I saw them bend the knee. I was like,

930
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: that's going to mean a lot for the people who

931
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: use social media as an alternate messaging method to get

932
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: out their message directly to people. And so I think

933
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: the level of backlash that athletes will receive now in

934
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: this moment for being anti Trump is going to be

935
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 1: so much worse than what we have seen before because

936
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: these other tools are in place to frankly suppress them,

937
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: to create a level of blacklash and the intensity of

938
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: it that I think is going to be pretty difficult

939
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: for a lot of athletes to bear for where they

940
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: don't even want to be involved. And it's not just

941
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: social media, it's just you're even seeing signs of this

942
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 1: and entertainment, so like everywhere they look, it's just people

943
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: who are choosing that path that you said is that

944
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: they don't want to be associated with it, but they

945
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: also want to stay silent. They don't want to have

946
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: to deal with it either, and I think that's going

947
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: to put athletes in particular in a different place. So

948
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: I expect fully when it's that time where people are

949
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,760
Speaker 1: winning championships, that you're going to see.

950
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: A lot more teams go to the White House. And

951
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 2: you did the first time around.

952
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: There's going to be a lot more capitulation. There's going

953
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: to be a lot more bending the knee because people

954
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: are already been in the meet or been in the

955
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: knee before he even got to office. So I expect

956
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: this to extend everywhere. You know, the Snoop Nelly, Rick

957
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: Ross Soldier Boy dynamic is a is the level of

958
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: capitulation that's to come because the thing that the right

959
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: is going to lean on. He won the popular vote.

960
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: The majority of people want this, They want to see

961
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: this guy. I remind people he won the popular vote

962
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: by the lowest margin since Richard Nixon. All Right, so

963
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: Richard Nixon was the last president who won by this

964
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: love of margin. He didn't even get fifty percent of

965
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: the vote. That is not a mandate, but nevertheless, in

966
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: our culture, they've accepted it as a mandate. And I

967
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: think this is going to put pressure on athletes to

968
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: either capitulate and bend the knee or they're.

969
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: Just not going to say anything period. Now. I hope

970
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 2: I'm wrong. I pray to God, but this is already

971
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: the signs that I'm seeing.

972
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 3: Go ahead.

973
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: You can tell me I'm crazy.

974
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 3: I definitely understand how you came to that conclusion. This

975
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 3: was This is what I would add to that. If

976
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 3: you have the athletes at the at the top of

977
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: the echelon who also were exhibiting signs that they were

978
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 3: going to capitulate as well, then I would say, okay, maybe,

979
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 3: but Lebron Steph Curry, Jaylen Brown, I.

980
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 2: Don't expect the NBA.

981
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,919
Speaker 3: Let me just say, NBA.

982
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: I would be shocked.

983
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: Now, granted to your point about Lebron, no disrespect to

984
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: the to Lebron James.

985
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 2: I don't know that he'll be in the championship conversation

986
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 2: this year.

987
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: You know, I mean to have to have to make

988
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: that decision about am I going to the White House

989
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: or am I?

990
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 3: You know, like yeah, but he's still going to be

991
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 3: the Lebron as far as the level of platform that

992
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 3: he has and able ability to be able to speak

993
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 3: out on different things, and he's going to receive the

994
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 3: same level, if not more back last that he received.

995
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 3: I mean, they they see a lot of backlands, Steph Curry,

996
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 3: and then when he you know, they a lot of backlands,

997
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 3: even Jaylen Brown, you know what I mean, a lot

998
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 3: of backlands. So if you said NBA inside, yeah, I

999
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 3: don't think that that's going to be an issue any

1000
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 3: more in the NBA. And I think that one of

1001
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: the things that I that I have to really give

1002
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,919
Speaker 3: these cat props on is the top excellent of NBA

1003
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 3: players that are doing that kind of set the bar

1004
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: for everybody else. So if they see Lebron doing it,

1005
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,479
Speaker 3: they see Steph Curry doing it. That's why I wanted

1006
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 3: to really you know, interview them, especially because they have

1007
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 3: the biggest influence now in the NFL, you know, and

1008
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 3: and baseball. I can't I can't speak you.

1009
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 2: Know, for them, but we already know what time it

1010
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 2: is there.

1011
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 3: But I will say this though, I will say this,

1012
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 3: I hope that there's room for debate and discussion. I'm

1013
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 3: not even even when you have somebody like a like

1014
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: a Nick Bosa or a you know, even Jonathan Isaac

1015
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 3: you know a place for Orlando or you know herschel

1016
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 3: Walker that was debated, you know, the Arsenal walk. But

1017
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 3: I'm just used as an example of people who are

1018
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 3: you know, Trump supporters or speaking out you know, in

1019
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 3: favor of MAGA politics and everything like that. I think

1020
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 3: there's room for debate. I don't want to get into

1021
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 3: the point where I'm saying, shut up and dribble if

1022
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 3: you're speaking out for something that I don't agree with,

1023
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 3: because then I would be no worse, no better than them.

1024
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 3: That's what they do. You know, they will applaud all

1025
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 3: the athletes. Did you see how quick they switched on

1026
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 3: danic Ka Patrick? Now dani Ka Patrick. They they talked

1027
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 3: about her throughout her whole career. They said she was

1028
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 3: at her city higher, that she didn't belong there, all

1029
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 3: this different stuff. They didn't use the word DEI because

1030
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 3: the id I wasn't the go to insult then, but

1031
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 3: they used the other DEI type language right then she

1032
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 3: came out for Trump, and now they're praising her and

1033
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 3: uplifting her. Oh she's this and she's wonderful and everything

1034
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 3: like that. And I don't want to fall into that category.

1035
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 3: But I do believe that whether it's Sir Jonathan Isaac

1036
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 3: or whether it's a Dick Bosa that that says that

1037
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 3: I disagree with I'm not going to tell him that

1038
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 3: he doesn't have the right to speak or doesn't have

1039
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 3: the right to voice his position. But I do have

1040
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 3: the right to disagree with you. And so there's that

1041
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 3: dialogue that I think is a healthy dialogue to be had.

1042
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 3: You know, like President Obama would always say disagree without

1043
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 3: being disagreeable, and I think that there I would like

1044
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 3: to see that more with athletes. So you know, an

1045
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 3: athlete has one one, you know, perspective, another athlete has

1046
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,320
Speaker 3: another perspective, and y'all have an actual debate, you know

1047
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: what I mean, Y'll discuss, you know, in a respectful way,

1048
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 3: but still standing for among your positions. I think that's healthy.

1049
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 3: I think healthy debate is great. But yeah, the hypocrisy

1050
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 3: of you know, Trump supporters in the right of telling

1051
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 3: athletes to shut up and dribble when they disagree with them,

1052
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 3: it's it's so evident, and it's so you know, I

1053
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 3: mean just you know, you know herschal Walker look at

1054
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 3: herschel Walker and they put him up like he is billo.

1055
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,919
Speaker 2: It's well, I agree with you about the debate.

1056
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 1: And one thing that I have been, like you've been

1057
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: very consistent about is that whenever there has been an

1058
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: athlete that has spoken up, that has politics or that

1059
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: are that are counter to mine, I never tell him

1060
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: to shut up. I will disagree with what they said

1061
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: and will tell them why. I think they're wrong, and

1062
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: I'll leave it at that. My issue with the media though,

1063
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: is when Colin Kaepernick did his when he engaged in

1064
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: his protests, Colin Kaepernick sat there many times and explained

1065
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: in detail why he was doing what he was doing,

1066
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: and he was like, it's because you know, oppression the police,

1067
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: Like he went down the list. He even said, this

1068
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 1: is not about the military. Have great respect for him.

1069
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: B Da da Dah broke down every.

1070
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 2: Single point of why he was doing his protests.

1071
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: But when it came to Bosa when he flashed the

1072
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: MAGA hat during brock Perty's interview Afterday Night Football in

1073
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 1: the post came interview. When he went to the media room,

1074
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: he was only asked one question about it. That to

1075
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: me is a failure of media because I say, oh no,

1076
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: what happened to all them questions that you'd ask Conley Kaepernick.

1077
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: You made him explain in detail why he was doing this.

1078
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: I think at the very least, if you're going to

1079
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,479
Speaker 1: be that public about it, and certainly do it before

1080
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: twenty million people, then I have a right to ask you, Oh, okay,

1081
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 1: so you support Donald Trump?

1082
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:28,479
Speaker 2: Why why do you support Donald Trump?

1083
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: Oh, he's somebody who's been incredibly found guilty of sexual assault.

1084
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 2: Is that something you agree with? I have a right

1085
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 2: to ask you all these things.

1086
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: Oh well, he has said that the Central Park five,

1087
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: a group of black men, deserved a death penalty even

1088
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: though they were exonerated.

1089
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 2: Do you agree with that? See, they don't want to

1090
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 2: get into that discussion. That's the thing is that, you know,

1091
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 2: I wish we could.

1092
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: Bring this debate a little more center, But a lot

1093
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: of the athletes who call themselves supporting him and supporting

1094
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: MAGA policies never want to engage in that conversation because

1095
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: I think frankly and deep down, they know they can't

1096
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: stand on them.

1097
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: They know they can't. There's nothing to stand on, right, Like,

1098
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: how can you possibly say?

1099
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: Like, oh, yeah, I would love to hear Jonathan Isaac

1100
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: explain how he thinks that president who supports full immunity

1101
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 1: for the police is beneficial for black people.

1102
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 2: Would love to hear his explanation, But they.

1103
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: Don't ever want to get into that dialogue because I think, frankly,

1104
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: they understand that a lot of the things this man

1105
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: stands for are things that are hard to defend, and

1106
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, it just.

1107
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 2: Kind of boils down kind of boils down to that.

1108
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:39,439
Speaker 1: All right, I want to slightly pivot from this talk

1109
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: of Trump, because I'm like, we're not even that, you know,

1110
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: barely as we record this, We're literally two days into

1111
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: this man's presidency, and I'm already totally exhausted. But along

1112
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: the same lines about athletes and activism, you had a

1113
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: very special relationship with John Thompson, one of the most outspoken,

1114
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: admirable figures her in college basketball. But what I found interesting,

1115
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: and I did not know this, is that out of

1116
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: high school you actually wanted to play for him, but

1117
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: that didn't wind up happening.

1118
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 2: Explain what happened.

1119
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 1: Because in time, Thomas Georgetown, that seems like a perfect fit.

1120
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1121
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 3: No, everybody knew me growing up, but I love watching

1122
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 3: Georgetown and I wanted to go to Syracuse's my second choice.

1123
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 3: I wanted to go to Georgetown.

1124
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: Sure, Coach Beheim loves that well so many.

1125
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 3: Different times he understands, you know, and that's why I

1126
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 3: was always so hyped up. You know when we played Georgetown,

1127
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 3: you know, those are terrific games, like, oh my gosh,

1128
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 3: the old Big East rival. It was fantastic. But you know,

1129
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 3: I just loved everything that John Thompson stood for. I

1130
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 3: mean I remember seeing him. I was in middle school,

1131
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 3: you know, young, and they were congratulating him on being

1132
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 3: the first black coach to do something, and he was like, well,

1133
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 3: you know, I kind of resent that. He kind of

1134
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 3: pushed back on it. He's like, because I there was

1135
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,439
Speaker 3: many very talented black coaches before me that weren't given

1136
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 3: a chance to be able to you know. So he

1137
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 3: was always not afraid to stand up for black people,

1138
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 3: you know what, I mean, four black coaches for He's like,

1139
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 3: you're not going to use me as the black person

1140
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 3: that now has you know, pierced the ceilings, so now

1141
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 3: everything is okay. He was like, no, you're not going

1142
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 3: to do that. And I always just really respected that.

1143
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 3: But no, but going back to your question, I was

1144
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 3: in high school coming out. They had a lot of

1145
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 3: big men at the time, and you know, it was simple.

1146
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,479
Speaker 3: He was like, you know, respect you as a player.

1147
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 3: I like how you play. We you know, we have

1148
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 3: this big man, this big man. We have this one

1149
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 3: that's over in Africa now and he's going to come over.

1150
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 3: So we have a lot of big men at the time.

1151
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 3: I was like, all right, I understand, you know, guitar heart, no,

1152
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 3: but I understand. But yeah, But then, especially when I

1153
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 3: was here with the Wizards, we really talked a lot

1154
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 3: and we you know, got close to you even. I

1155
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 3: remember he came. I was speaking at Georgetown, actually debating

1156
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 3: with Bill Roman, and he brought his whole team there.

1157
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 3: The whole team was there, and they you know, I

1158
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 3: think Jeff Green was there and you know, the whole

1159
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 3: young Jeffy Green. And afterwards, you know, speaking to me

1160
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 3: and everything, He's like, yeah, I've always respected you and

1161
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 3: you know, for your stance, and we just developed a

1162
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 3: friendship and it was it was really amazing because you know,

1163
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 3: talking to different guys, you know, like I played for

1164
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 3: I played with Jahattie White, you know, with the Wizards,

1165
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 3: and he was Georgetown the whole time, and you know,

1166
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 3: listening to j Y d. Jerome, Jaron Williams and all them,

1167
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 3: he was like, yeah, he always respected I was like

1168
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 3: really he was, like, you know, like college. He was like,

1169
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I didn't know that, you know anybody.

1170
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 3: He's like, yeah, he always respected you, but he was.

1171
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 4: He was.

1172
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 3: He was really you know a special symbol of you know,

1173
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 3: just not beyond coaching just because he was building men

1174
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 3: and the way that he held and accountable and the

1175
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 3: way that he you know, demanded certain things of them,

1176
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 3: you know, not just academically, but for them to go

1177
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 3: the extra mile and how they conduct themselves and how

1178
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 3: they you know, how the the preparing them for how

1179
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 3: the world is going to be against them, and they

1180
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 3: have to you know, work twice as hard once they

1181
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 3: step out of these lines because then you're only going

1182
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 3: to be looked at as a basketball Like all the

1183
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 3: things that he instilled in them is just something that's

1184
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 3: is just really special. So not nothing but respect nothing respect.

1185
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: Would I would have loved to have seen how John

1186
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 1: Thompson would have adjusted in this nil era.

1187
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 3: You know, you know all of the all of the

1188
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 3: elder coaches are really struggling with it, all of them

1189
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 3: across the board. And you're going to see more coaches

1190
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 3: retire from that because it's a totally different landscape and

1191
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 3: it's yeah, they probably never imagined that it would it

1192
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 3: would be like this, but yeah, you know, the entire

1193
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 3: older generation of coaches are all going to be transitioning out.

1194
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 2: That's that's as somebody you know who had again a

1195
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 2: brilliant college career.

1196
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: How do you process this in il era? What are

1197
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,959
Speaker 1: some of the observations and things that you're noticing about

1198
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: it a lot?

1199
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 3: You know. One of the things that I that I

1200
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 3: do notice is the conversation and the criticism is a

1201
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 3: little bit different now, you know. Now it's like, Okay,

1202
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 3: well this player is earning this amount and he only

1203
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 3: got these many rebounds or he only got like so

1204
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 3: it's always brought into the conversation. It's not just a

1205
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 3: regular criticism that the player didn't play well, didn't shoot well.

1206
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 3: The monetary aspect is always added with and that seems

1207
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 3: a little you know, I don't know, it's just it's

1208
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 3: just a shift. It's different, and you know, it's it's

1209
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 3: it's you know, I think I think a lot of

1210
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 3: and I'm somebody who has been very critical of the

1211
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 3: inca A, you know, since I left Syracuse, because just

1212
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 3: I saw how much money they make. You know, it'sn't

1213
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 3: an absurd amount of that they make. I remember being

1214
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 3: an economicist class in Syracuse and we're looking at numbers,

1215
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 3: and you know, we were saying how this infressor was

1216
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 3: showing how okay, you know, back in the forties and

1217
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 3: the fifties, it was a you know, a trade off.

1218
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,919
Speaker 3: You know, you get a scholarship, you know, you play

1219
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 3: on the team and everything like that. But now you

1220
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 3: enter all these different aspects of it where you have

1221
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 3: TV contracts and you have you know, these these huge

1222
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 3: you know, arenas that are filled. You have merchandising and

1223
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 3: jerseys you know, not just ticket sales, but you know

1224
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 3: all the everything, like that paraphernalia with the player's name

1225
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 3: numbers on them. You know. I remember reading Fat Five's

1226
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 3: book and they talked about how their first year playing

1227
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 3: at Michigan it was great. It was, you know, having

1228
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 3: a great time, everything like that. Everything was wonderful. Then

1229
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 3: they looked and they're like, wait a minute, our jerseys

1230
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 3: are sold in all of these different places. They started

1231
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,479
Speaker 3: looking at numbers the number of times they was on TV,

1232
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 3: you know, versus the number of times that they're on TV,

1233
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 3: but that Michigan was on TV before they got there,

1234
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 3: all these different things, and Chris Webber was saying, yah,

1235
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 3: I don't even have enough money to take a girl

1236
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 3: out on a date, you know. So so it's looked

1237
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 3: at differently. But a lot of people, a lot of

1238
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 3: sports fans are still looking at it like players aren't

1239
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 3: getting something that they deserve, that they have earned that

1240
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 3: the school. They're okay with the school making it, but

1241
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 3: they're not okay with the players making it. And they're like,

1242
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 3: all this NIL is so crazy now because now the

1243
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 3: players are making money. I was like, so that's the

1244
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 3: only part that's crazy is that players are making money

1245
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 3: that's not even coming out of the NCAA's pocket, not

1246
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 3: even coming out of the school's pocket. This is separate,

1247
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's not like they're sharing

1248
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 3: basketball related income or something like that with the players.

1249
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 3: This is separate, and it's you know, it's it's you

1250
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 3: get you get that undeserving or ungrateful athlete. You know,

1251
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 3: starts coming up again in conversation, and it's just, you know,

1252
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 3: it's interesting to hear well.

1253
01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 1: Even beyond the economics which clearly support to me that

1254
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: these athletes need to be paid and they should be

1255
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: able to earn whatever is possible based off their name, image,

1256
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: and likeness.

1257
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:08,959
Speaker 3: People.

1258
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 1: Younger coaches even worry about the culture that the culture

1259
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: and the mentality that NIL isn't creating in athletes, especially

1260
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 1: at the basketball level. I've had a lot of conversations

1261
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: with coaches about this, especially black coaches who are at

1262
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: the youth sort of AAU level, and they, you know,

1263
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: they talk often and criticize often the mentality of young

1264
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: players being much more entitled that even just the culture

1265
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: of American basketball, how is the game is played, has

1266
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: been disrupted.

1267
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 4: Now.

1268
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen how the NBA has taken a

1269
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 1: lot of criticism this year. The ratings to a point

1270
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: were down. I think they've kind of come a little

1271
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 1: bit on the other side, but nevertheless that they were

1272
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: looking at in the early part of the seasons, the

1273
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 1: ratings were bad, and a lot of people are looking

1274
01:03:57,960 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 1: at how the game is played and they're like, what

1275
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 1: is happening with American basketball?

1276
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 2: Period?

1277
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering if you've noticed certain trends, maybe they're

1278
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: not all to blame on NIL, but just how American basketball,

1279
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: youth basketball especially has changed a lot, and if you

1280
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 1: see any correlation to what we're seeing at the NBA level,

1281
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: So it is.

1282
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 3: A you know, the two part question. I don't. I

1283
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 3: don't think that the style of player has anything to

1284
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 3: do with NIL. I think right now we're in a

1285
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 3: situation where a lot of people who are against players

1286
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 3: earning money are going to blame nil for anything that

1287
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 3: bad happens. You know, I I think that there's so

1288
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 3: first of all, start with the going to youth basketball,

1289
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 3: going to a young a high school. So now when

1290
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 3: you're talking about the difference and mentality of players, Okay,

1291
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 3: now it's it's it's more of a business. And it

1292
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 3: always was a business. It's just that they look at

1293
01:04:55,680 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 3: the players as being able to receive any monetar harry

1294
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 3: benefits of the business. They just looked at everybody else.

1295
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 3: So before anybody that was associated that worked with the basketball,

1296
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 3: football department or whatever athletic department were being paid in

1297
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 3: some way, in some way they perform. It's just that

1298
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 3: the players weren't. So now when a player, when a

1299
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 3: coach approaches a player, now a player does need representation.

1300
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 3: You know what, what you promised me is not going

1301
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 3: to just be a verbal promise that you say over

1302
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 3: the phone or you say in my living room. It

1303
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 3: has to be put into a contract. So if you're

1304
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 3: going to promise X, Y and Z, okay, write that

1305
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 3: into the contract and I'm going to have the lawyer

1306
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 3: look over it. Go Yeah, it's a business now and

1307
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of coaches don't like that

1308
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 3: aspect of it because they can't just tell a player

1309
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 3: or anything. Big, Oh, we promised you this, this and this. Okay,

1310
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 3: is it in the contract? But it you know, because

1311
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 3: you saw the players at at at Florida State that

1312
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 3: that just you know, suit and I'm respect for Lenning Hamilton.

1313
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 3: I don't know living Hamilton forever, but he didn't do

1314
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 3: anything that other coaches don't do. He promised something, you know, whatever, whatever,

1315
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 3: I'm gonna promise you whatever, X y Z, whatever it is.

1316
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 3: And they said they didn't receive that, but they didn't

1317
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 3: have it in contract for so so you know, it's

1318
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 3: it's a different era now because you can't just tell

1319
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 3: a player anything and you can't treat a player. So

1320
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 3: Bobby Knight wouldn't be able to last right now because

1321
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 3: you can't do all that with it. I'm just leading,

1322
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 3: I'm just transfer. You ain't gonna sit here because before

1323
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 3: they kind of held you hostage. You know, if you transfer,

1324
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 3: you're gonna lose your eligibility. You know, if you transfer,

1325
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 3: you're gonna I sat there and lit I don't want

1326
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 3: to go too far with Bobby Knight. But I sat

1327
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,439
Speaker 3: there and listened to during the USA Trials one time,

1328
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 3: listen to late Jason Collier and Luke Record. I was

1329
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 3: sitting there in their room telling Bobby Knight's stories for

1330
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 3: like an hour and a half, the story after the story,

1331
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 3: and I'm looking at them like, oh my gosh, like

1332
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 3: he did all of that, and it's but you can't

1333
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 3: do that anymore with players. Players are not you that that.

1334
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 3: So if a coach wants to go that approach, he's

1335
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 3: gonna lose all these players. And I'm perfectly okay with that,

1336
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 3: you know, because now you have the flexibility to leave

1337
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 3: and transfer and you're not going to be punished for

1338
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 3: it by having to sit out a year and use

1339
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 3: a year of eligibility. You could go play for their

1340
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 3: rival the next year. So I think that is actually

1341
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 3: a good thing now as far as the style of

1342
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 3: play and the reason why ratings are down, I mean,

1343
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 3: so a long time ago, Mark Jackson said that, you know,

1344
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 3: Steph Curry was ruining youth basketball, and everybody thought it

1345
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 3: was a slight to Steph Curry, like it was an

1346
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 3: attack on him. He's like that, that's not what it was.

1347
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 3: It was that everybody now wants to duplicate what Steph

1348
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,439
Speaker 3: Cary does and they're not Steph Curry. So every short

1349
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 3: basketball player thinks that they could just come down and

1350
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 3: shoot threes from everywhere. That's nelessly what it is. So

1351
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 3: they were winning, you know, Steph and Clay. They had

1352
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 3: the you know that formula, and they wore shooting feverwear

1353
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 3: and exciting and everything like that. So it's a copycat league.

1354
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 3: So now everybody now, you watch a game now, no

1355
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 3: matter who it is, and everybody's jacking up threes. That's

1356
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 3: all they're doing. And for me, you know, I'm not

1357
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 3: that crazy about it, so I might contribute to some

1358
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 3: of the low ratings sometimes. I remember I watched one time,

1359
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 3: I think it was Chicago and Toronto and they set

1360
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,560
Speaker 3: the record for most threes missed in a game and

1361
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 3: it was just breaking three after three and I'm like, so,

1362
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 3: I don'tbody want to drive, don't nobody want to step

1363
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 3: in closer. They just going to keep on shooting. And

1364
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 3: so yeah, that's what's happening in college. That's what's happened

1365
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:38,799
Speaker 3: at the hpool level. That's what's happened in the pros,

1366
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,799
Speaker 3: So I think that is you know, it's a different

1367
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 3: style of basketball. So I remember I saw a clip

1368
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 3: of and I posted it. I saw a clip of

1369
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 3: the running Rebels back with Larry Johnson and them, and

1370
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,839
Speaker 3: they came out in the game and they were attacking

1371
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 3: and dunking and screaming and everything like that, and it

1372
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 3: was that kind of bad, that type of basketball. I

1373
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 3: was like, Oh, this is this is what basketball is

1374
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:02,640
Speaker 3: supposed to be, you know what I mean, Like, this

1375
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:06,719
Speaker 3: is fantastic, but now it's really like a three point contest.

1376
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 3: And that's just where basketball is right now. I don't

1377
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 3: think it's going to stay here forever, but for right now,

1378
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 3: that's you know, that's where it is.

1379
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is disturbing often for me to watch an

1380
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 1: NBA game and you'll see somebody with a wide open layup,

1381
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: like kick it out to somebody and they're right at

1382
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: the basketball and they're just like, no, I'm a kicking

1383
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: off three. And I get the math three is better

1384
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: than two, but your high percentage shot, dude, you're right

1385
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,640
Speaker 1: at the basket, like just just go right there, and

1386
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 1: the number of times that play is not successful, and

1387
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: I just am like, why you know, so I get

1388
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:47,799
Speaker 1: why the fans they've.

1389
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,639
Speaker 2: Made the three point shot not special anymore.

1390
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 1: There's no such thing as its three point specialist because

1391
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: of you know, it's a positionless basketball.

1392
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 2: Everybody's shooting at three. It doesn't really matter.

1393
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 1: Now for those who do not know, Now, you were

1394
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: drafted twelfth overall in two thousand, which obviously means there

1395
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: were eleven players taken before you. Now here are the

1396
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:11,560
Speaker 1: eleven players and in order that were chosen before you.

1397
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure you probably know this already, but this is

1398
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 1: for the people listening at home yet. Kenya Martin, who's

1399
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 1: number one overall? Stromhouse Swift, Darius Miles, Marcus Pfizer, Mike Miller,

1400
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: Jamar Johnson, Chris Mims, Jamal Crawford, Joel PRIs Villa, Kean Dueling,

1401
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 1: Jeromo Isso, So, if we were doing a redraft anytime

1402
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 1: right now, where do you see yourself in that top twelve?

1403
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 2: If we were doing should you have been much higher

1404
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 2: than you went? Where would you redraft yourself?

1405
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 3: Now, that's an interesting question. I I don't know that's

1406
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:52,639
Speaker 3: that's the one. I haven't even thought about that one.

1407
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:54,639
Speaker 3: I couldn't be able to tell that one.

1408
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 2: You know that was that was my way of trying

1409
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:57,600
Speaker 2: to lure you and to say, oh, I know I

1410
01:10:57,720 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 2: was better than say that.

1411
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 3: I know what you mean to say. Right now, you

1412
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 3: trying to tell me you better. You're about to say,

1413
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 3: I'm not say that. Whoever you're about to say, I'm

1414
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 3: not going to I'm not going to do it. But

1415
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 3: I think that one of the things that that I

1416
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 3: will say is that you you remember the guys from

1417
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:22,480
Speaker 3: the draft and when you because now now we're all older, retired.

1418
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 2: And now their kids are playing.

1419
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:26,719
Speaker 3: Now, that's what we're saying. So me and actually Jerome

1420
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 3: Ouiso ran into each other at our daughter's volleyball turn

1421
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 3: and I and I'm so he's down there, and I'm

1422
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:36,600
Speaker 3: looking at him because I didn't seen Drome Loisa for

1423
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 3: a while. I'm looking at him looking at me. I'm like, dude,

1424
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 3: I see him do like this. And we go and

1425
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,560
Speaker 3: we talked for like, you know, forty five minutes, just

1426
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 3: like just talking. And that's what I see happening a

1427
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 3: lot now. A lot of our daughters are, you know,

1428
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 3: playing volleyball or something like that, and we running to

1429
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 3: each other or seeing, you know, my son was playing

1430
01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 3: au seeing different guys. That's that's a special special you know,

1431
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 3: it's just special.

1432
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 2: See, you're just such a good person anytime you just

1433
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 2: like you're like, I'm not taking the baby, you know what.

1434
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna let you off the hook that.

1435
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: Easy, because I end every podcast with what I call

1436
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:16,479
Speaker 1: a messy question, and you are perfectly That wasn't a

1437
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 1: messy question. I got a messier question. I'll say that,

1438
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 1: all right. So you you played with Michael Jordan. You're

1439
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 1: with the Wizards, but you also played against Lebron earlier

1440
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 1: in his career, and I think he put you out

1441
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 1: the playoffs like three times.

1442
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:30,400
Speaker 3: Every time? Yeah, every time, Yeah, every time.

1443
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,400
Speaker 1: Lebron puts you out the playoffs. You played with Michael Jordan.

1444
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 1: So go ahead, settle the debate. Who is the greatest

1445
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: player of all time? Is it Lebron or Jordan's?

1446
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 3: Oh lord, I don't want why why I like to

1447
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 3: talk about this question so much. It's so it's so

1448
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 3: hard to you know what, I mean to really do.

1449
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 3: I played with I played with MJ, and he was

1450
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 3: an old MJ, but he was still MG. And you

1451
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 3: saw different, you know, flashes of you know what, the

1452
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:01,600
Speaker 3: stuff that I learned from him just why he was.

1453
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 3: You know, I remember one time in particular, he had

1454
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 3: a bad game. He was old, his knee was hurting,

1455
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 3: something was going you know what I mean.

1456
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 1: He did have a good game, and at that point

1457
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 1: he was built like a power forge at that point

1458
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:13,519
Speaker 1: in his career.

1459
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 3: And so I come in to the to the rioting

1460
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 3: center and come into the locker room and he's sitting

1461
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,000
Speaker 3: there reading the papers. You know, I'm not gonna we

1462
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 3: read the papers, so I'm just dating myself and everything.

1463
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 3: But he's reading the papers and he's rocking right, and

1464
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 3: he's like biting his lips, like I guess the papers

1465
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 3: was talking bad about him, and he's just biting his lip,

1466
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 3: like just rocking. All those going on over there. But

1467
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 3: I can imagine because I know he had a bad game.

1468
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 3: So then the next game happened. The next game happened,

1469
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:47,560
Speaker 3: and he had like he broke the record for the

1470
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 3: most point score for somebody that age or something like that.

1471
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 3: It was just clicking on. So it was the way

1472
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 3: that he bounced back. It was in a way that

1473
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 3: I had kind of never seen before up close and personal,

1474
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 3: you know, And that was with the knee still hurting

1475
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 3: because he was still hurt. It didn't stop hurting just

1476
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 3: because it was the game before is he was still hurting.

1477
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 3: So you know, what I've seen him able to do,

1478
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 3: you know, was absolutely amazing. Now Lebron I was against

1479
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 3: a young Lebron. He was just really just still finding

1480
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 3: he was just athletic, like you know what I mean,

1481
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 3: the stuff that he would do. And we were in

1482
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 3: so many games where it came close to the wire

1483
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 3: and he just took over at the end and did

1484
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 3: something amazing, and it was.

1485
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:32,680
Speaker 2: It was like.

1486
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 3: He was really young. But you're like, yo, this this

1487
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 3: cat is going to be, you know, mentioned amongst the

1488
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 3: greats of all time. You know, by the time it's

1489
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 3: all said and done, and it's hard to put one

1490
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:52,639
Speaker 3: over the other because the game is different, what's allowed

1491
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 3: is different. You know, Lebron didn't have to go through

1492
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 3: the bad boy Pistons days or they just come down

1493
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 3: and just oh you know what I mean, like that's

1494
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 3: the defense, you come down, that's what we're gonna do.

1495
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 3: Like it's just it's just it's just different, you know.

1496
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 3: And m J didn't play with the freedom of movement

1497
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 3: that there is now, you know, because now it's hard

1498
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 3: to even really you can't chuck anyone. You can't hand check.

1499
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 3: You know, things are just different, you know. So that's

1500
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 3: a long way of saying, you know, I can't put

1501
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 3: one over the other in different eras, you know what

1502
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 3: I mean. But I think that you know, there's there's

1503
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 3: you know, goats of time periods, and you know, I

1504
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 3: think that's kind of the because it's hard because everything,

1505
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,479
Speaker 3: all the factors aren't the same, so it's hard to

1506
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 3: really compare, you know, one to the other.

1507
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:53,599
Speaker 1: So that's my answer, spoken like someone who's a true writer,

1508
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: a very nuanced, thoughtful a writer and speaker, A very true,

1509
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 1: a very thought full, nuanced answer. Of course, you know

1510
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: this is this is by an era. We don't want nuance, okay,

1511
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: we just want you to fix somebody.

1512
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 2: No I can't.

1513
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 1: But that was listen that that's really the answer is

1514
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 1: that as much as we try to make it one

1515
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 1: blanket go, I do think it's still Michael Jordan. But

1516
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: the reality is that you do have to account for

1517
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 1: error because there are people who got to watch Bill

1518
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 1: Russell and they will argue you down until you is old.

1519
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 2: Russell.

1520
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 1: I had this conversation with Bob Ryan, the you know,

1521
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 1: the famous sports columnist and writer for the for the

1522
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,759
Speaker 1: Boston Globe. Many times on Bob Bryan's list is Bill Russell.

1523
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:38,800
Speaker 1: And I dare you to try to talk him out

1524
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 1: of it, because you will. He's you know, and that's

1525
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: how it works. Everybody is very protective of their basketball era.

1526
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 1: But you had the special viewpoint of being a teammate

1527
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 1: of Michael Jordan and seeing young Lebron as he was

1528
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: still trying to figure out all of his superpowers. But anyway,

1529
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 1: we know your superpower is making people think what you

1530
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 1: do all the time. And has a multitude of books

1531
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,800
Speaker 1: that he has out, all of which are great, and

1532
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 1: you know you can find him on social media.

1533
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 2: Of course you have a podcast too as well.

1534
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 3: Right right, right right, you have to the Rematch. I

1535
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:15,639
Speaker 3: do the Rematch, Yes, yeah, and I have the Collision

1536
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 3: Sports and Politics Collide. I do it. Dave Sion, we

1537
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 3: have our things talk about a lot of different stuff,

1538
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 3: so horsely there's going to be a lot to talk

1539
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 3: about the next four years.

1540
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, all, yes, definitely.

1541
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 1: That's why I told people when I started this sports

1542
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 1: and Politics podcast, I said, you know, this is a

1543
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 1: really good time to start because we're we're in a

1544
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 1: very interesting political time. But anyway, thank you time for

1545
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:47,679
Speaker 1: your work and for help make sense of nonsense. Sometimes here.

1546
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 2: One more segment to go, and you guys know what

1547
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:52,759
Speaker 2: that means.

1548
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 1: I got questions to answer up next, your viewer slash

1549
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,840
Speaker 1: listener questions, and I have plenty of answers coming up

1550
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 1: next on the final segment of Spolatics before I get

1551
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 1: to this week's question from my politicians. Hey, way, did

1552
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 1: I just come up with something I want to plug

1553
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:22,759
Speaker 1: something important if you're finally feeling ready to re engage

1554
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:24,800
Speaker 1: with politics, and I assume so. If you're listening to

1555
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: this podcast and not really sure where to begin, let

1556
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 1: me help you out. Our friends over at the Native

1557
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 1: lamdpod podcast are giving that no holds barred political analysis

1558
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 1: you're not going to find on cable news. Each week,

1559
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 1: my homies Angela Ride took Me Across and Andrew Gillum

1560
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 1: break down Trump's illegal activity because it's a lot, and

1561
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,880
Speaker 1: share ways you can join the fight. This week, Native

1562
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:50,799
Speaker 1: Landpod will scrutinize Trump's quasi State of the Union address

1563
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,800
Speaker 1: and so much more. Check them out wherever you get

1564
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 1: your podcasts and also on YouTube. And now to this

1565
01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 1: week's question, which comes via email from Raymond lionce and

1566
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,360
Speaker 1: founder of Lions DN Sports Media LLC.

1567
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:07,599
Speaker 2: Hey, jaml longtime listener, first time caller. Two part question.

1568
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 1: Just wanted to ask how you felt about player led media,

1569
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 1: podcast shows, etc.

1570
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 2: And how it's affected the media landscape in general.

1571
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 1: Do you think they have a builty in level of

1572
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 1: credibility since they were prosed and if so, what factor

1573
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:22,479
Speaker 1: does that play and how they are received by fans

1574
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 1: kind regards Raymond Lyons, CEO, Founder Lions d and Sports

1575
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 1: Media LLC. So it's like this, I actually enjoy the

1576
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 1: fact that you have a lot more players now that

1577
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 1: are jumping into the media landscape. I think it's made

1578
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 1: a lot of journalists who are also in that same

1579
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:40,960
Speaker 1: landscape a little bit sharper.

1580
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 2: I think it's added to the conversation. It's certainly been

1581
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:44,599
Speaker 2: very entertaining.

1582
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:47,920
Speaker 1: I mean, we're learning insight and stories about the game

1583
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:51,840
Speaker 1: that we never really knew before, and just hearing them

1584
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 1: talk among each other, you can tell and I've heard

1585
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:56,560
Speaker 1: so many players say this before in the past, and

1586
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 1: when they leave the game, the number one thing that

1587
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 1: they miss is not necessarily playing, although that's a big

1588
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 1: part of it. The part they miss is the camaraderie,

1589
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 1: the part they missed sitting around joking, kicking it with

1590
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 1: the fellas, roasting each other in the locker room.

1591
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 2: They miss those parts.

1592
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 1: And so when you see these players together in those

1593
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: kind of environments on podcasts and shows, you see why

1594
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:21,160
Speaker 1: they miss that kind of byplay and why they missed

1595
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 1: that particular back and forth. Now here's where it gets

1596
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 1: interesting in terms of how it affects the journalism landscape.

1597
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:30,719
Speaker 1: The reality is that when it comes to sports media,

1598
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 1: if you played the sport before that, you're going to

1599
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: have a little bit more leverage and you're probably going

1600
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 1: to be a little more attractive to higher than you

1601
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 1: would say a sports journalist. And what my fear is

1602
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 1: is that as you see more and more players continue

1603
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 1: to get into this arena, what you'll see is that

1604
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 1: that will kind of in some.

1605
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:54,520
Speaker 2: Ways phase out the sports journalists.

1606
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:59,520
Speaker 1: Imagine being a black man who wasn't a top prospect

1607
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:03,519
Speaker 1: of an athlete, who didn't play professionally, but you love sports,

1608
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 1: you're a journalist, and you want to be on TV.

1609
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 2: The landscape for you is going to be very.

1610
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 1: Difficult because again, those jobs, they are sort of coveted

1611
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:17,000
Speaker 1: for ex players, that's who they want to hire. What

1612
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: I worry about the most is what kind of impact

1613
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 1: this will have on sports journalism as a whole, and

1614
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:25,400
Speaker 1: especially for black sports writers. Now as a woman, I'm

1615
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:28,639
Speaker 1: used to being in this space because I didn't play

1616
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 1: professionally before, and a lot of the sports I talked

1617
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 1: about I had no dream or hope of play. I

1618
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 1: talk a lot about football, college and pro, the NBA,

1619
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, and so I've had to carve

1620
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 1: my own lane in this space by my newspaper career

1621
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,280
Speaker 1: where I covered a lot of teams, leagues, and players,

1622
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:51,639
Speaker 1: by my insight, observational skills, reporting, being able to cultivate

1623
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:54,960
Speaker 1: sources get information that kind of thing, and just being

1624
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 1: around the game, and being around the game and the

1625
01:21:56,840 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 1: capacity of which I was, I've been able to really

1626
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 1: learn a lot about locker room dynamics, about all sorts

1627
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 1: of things. And just always keep in mind that reporters

1628
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 1: we never empty our notebooks, so we know a lot

1629
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 1: more than what we're saying. But anyway, that's sort of

1630
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 1: the information and credibility that I've leaned on that has

1631
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 1: helped me throughout my career. But I think there's actually

1632
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: room for both. But it's unfortunate a lot of networks

1633
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 1: don't necessarily think that way. I think about a show

1634
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 1: like The Sports Reporters, where this was a place where

1635
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 1: sports columnists from all Acousta country and different markets could

1636
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 1: come talk about sports, give their opinions, give their observations,

1637
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:38,880
Speaker 1: their insights.

1638
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 2: I don't know if a show like that, it's going

1639
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 2: to be hard for it to exist. Now.

1640
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 1: I know that ESPN brought back a version of it,

1641
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 1: but the truth of the matter is the majority of

1642
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 1: the jobs now in sports broadcasting are probably going to

1643
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:58,719
Speaker 1: former players. But I think not making room for everybody

1644
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:00,800
Speaker 1: is the fault of the industry. I don't call the players.

1645
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 1: I don't look at them as competition or as they're

1646
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,439
Speaker 1: stealing my job. But I hope people understand that sports

1647
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 1: journalists bring something to the table too.

1648
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, everybody that's a.

1649
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:13,559
Speaker 1: Sports journalists can't play, don't necessarily have a left hand

1650
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:16,960
Speaker 1: or what have you. But a lot of us are

1651
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:20,479
Speaker 1: able to see things, observe things, and even say things

1652
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:23,719
Speaker 1: that the players are not. And one final thing before

1653
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:26,120
Speaker 1: I wrap up this answer, one thing I am glad

1654
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:30,639
Speaker 1: about having all of these different athletes that are now

1655
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: in the sports media space.

1656
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:34,720
Speaker 2: The one thing I really love about it is that

1657
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 2: y'all can see they got some crazy ass opinions too.

1658
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 2: You know, the media has taken a.

1659
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:43,160
Speaker 1: Lot of shots for some of our opinions and our

1660
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 1: hot takes, but as you see, the players are no better.

1661
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:50,360
Speaker 1: Some of them got some sizzling takes as well. So

1662
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:52,240
Speaker 1: thank you Raymond for your question.

1663
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 2: Ask for the rest of you. If you have a

1664
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 2: question for me, you can hit me up on social

1665
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:57,759
Speaker 2: media or on email.

1666
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm at Shail Hill Across all social media platforms, Twitter, Instagram,

1667
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:05,600
Speaker 1: fan based, Blue sky anthreads, please use the hashtags politics.

1668
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 1: You also have the option of emailing me as Politics

1669
01:24:08,479 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. You can also

1670
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 1: send me a video of your question, but please make

1671
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,679
Speaker 1: sure it is thirty seconds or a less. Don't forget

1672
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 1: to follow and subscribe to this Politics on iHeart and

1673
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 1: follows Politics Pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is spelled

1674
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 1: s p O L I T c S, and as

1675
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:29,599
Speaker 1: I said before, make sure you check out the homies

1676
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:33,880
Speaker 1: from Native Land Pod. A new episode of Politics drops

1677
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 1: every Thursday on Night Heart podcast or wherever you get

1678
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:40,640
Speaker 1: your podcasts. This is politics, where sports and politics.

1679
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:42,559
Speaker 2: Don't just mix, they matter.

1680
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:48,719
Speaker 1: Politics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.

1681
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 1: I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne.

1682
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:57,639
Speaker 1: Lucas Hymen is head of Audio and executive producer. Original

1683
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:01,519
Speaker 1: music for Spolitics provided by Kyle Vis from whiz Fx.