1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: What does recovery look like when it's not designed for you? 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm doctor and Zena Harrison, and in season four of 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: Unaddictioned Podcast, we're featuring black and brown guests sharing their 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: journeys through the unique barriers to recovery shaped by their identities. 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: These guests have not only defined recovery on their terms, 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: but they're also creating pathways and communities that can help 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: you or a loved one find recovery too. Okay, Laura, 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 1: thank you so much. One if y'all knew the technical 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: difficulties that I just went through to get on here, 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: and Laura's just being super gracious, so I appreciate you. 11 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Unaddictioned Podcast. 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: I was telling you before we started recording that I 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: don't take what I consider heavy reading on vacation, and 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: I you know, I experience people's memoirs about their experiences 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: with addictions heavily because I just like let myself fully 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: connect to the emotion, which I definitely did, Like I 18 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: was crying with you and laughing with you through this book. 19 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: But for some reason, I took this book with me 20 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: on my vacation to Mexico with my husband, and I 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: was just really glad that I did. It is such 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: a beautifully honest and open memoir which you tell us 23 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: about is like a new experience than the way you 24 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: had learned you had to protect yourself growing up. So 25 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: I just wanted to say thank you for writing this 26 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: book I have to read. And I know this podcast 27 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: is not supposed to be like here we go, this 28 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: is a Stash promo, but y'all go get this book. 29 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I literally sent Laura when I first 30 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: started reading and Instagram message and it opened up and 31 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: it said, I'm just gonna read a bit from the 32 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: author's note, which is the very very beginning, so I'm 33 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: not spoiling anything for you. It says in two thousand 34 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: and eight, I ended a marriage, got sober, and fell 35 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: in love, all within a ten month period. An avid reader, 36 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: I scoured bookstores for memoirs during that time, desperate for 37 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: stories like mine written by women who looks like me. 38 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: I found none. I wrote Stash to make sure that 39 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: the next person going through any of that or all 40 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: of that, finds themselves in the pages of a book. 41 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: I wrote Stash for my sisters, brothers, and others. Of 42 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: all backgrounds and colors who are scared to be themselves. 43 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh. 44 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: From the moment I opened it up, I was like, 45 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: this is why the universe told me to bring this 46 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: book on this vay. So Laura with that super long introduction, 47 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: which is like not even what I ever do? Will 48 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: you just tell the listeners who is Laura Cathcart Robbins. 49 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 1: I will. 50 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: But first of all, I just really want to thank 51 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: you for finding me and bringing me on the show. 52 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 2: And then also that read was beautiful. It's exactly how 53 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: I would want it to be read if someone someone 54 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 2: else read it, and you did it so beautifully because 55 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: the parts and I wrote that off I didn't I 56 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: realized I didn't have one as we were going to print, 57 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: I didn't have an author's note, and I just forgot 58 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: about an author's note. So I had a pretty quick deadline. 59 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: I think I had a day to get that in. 60 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: Oh wow, And it just it was one of those 61 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 2: things that just flowed out because it was so obvious 62 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: to me as to why I wrote the book, and 63 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: it was those things that you read. It was it 64 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: was just like, there isn't one and it's a huge 65 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: dearth in this it's a void, you know, and why 66 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: not and why aren't there more So I really appreciate 67 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 2: you King and on that and and like I said, 68 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: and just you know, welcoming me the way that you 69 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 2: have being so enthusiastic about about this conversation we're about 70 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 2: to have in advance. So I appreciate all of that. 71 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: So I am, I'm a mom. I'm an author, I'm 72 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: a writer. I am I'm an activist, and I kind 73 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 2: of I don't even know if I want to identify 74 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: that way, but I write provocative pieces about race and 75 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: recovery and divorce and relationships. And I sit on the 76 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: board of an independent school here in Los Angeles where 77 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: I live. My kids are grown. They haven't been there 78 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: for a long time, but I created their diversity, Equity, Inclusion, 79 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: and Justice committee and I still preside on that committee 80 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: because it's really important to me to make sure that 81 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: no one drops the ball just because I'm gone. I 82 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: want to be sure that the kids that are coming in, 83 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 2: the kids that are already on campus are seen through 84 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 2: a lens of equity. And it's a really you know, 85 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 2: it's not happening, but the effort needs to be there. 86 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: So in those two ways. I would say that I 87 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 2: have some activism in my life, and I also advocate 88 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: for people in recovery or trying to get into recovery. 89 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: I think there's the reason I tell my story is 90 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: because I had everything that I think people. Well, I'll 91 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: just say that this way. I had everything that I 92 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 2: thought I would want, and I thought those things would 93 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 2: keep me safe from struggle. All you know, the wildest dreams, 94 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: the mansions, the nannies, the private planes, the you know, 95 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 2: the yacht vacations, like all those things were part of 96 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: my day to day, and yet I was and not 97 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 2: only was I dying, but I was killing myself on 98 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: a regular basis. And I had everything to lose, most 99 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 2: importantly my children, which is who the book is dedicated to. 100 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: And another reason why I wrote the book because you know, 101 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 2: there's so much stigma around moms and addiction and I 102 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 2: wanted to, you know, not dispel, but kind of explain 103 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: how that can happen to someone who loves their children 104 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 2: as much as I do. So, yeah, that is me. 105 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 2: I have a relationship with a man that I write 106 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 2: about in the book, and he and I have been 107 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: together for just about sixteen years, which is just about 108 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 2: how long I've been sober, and yeah, I live. I 109 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: live comparatively drama free life, but you know, I live. 110 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: The life that I had that I thought was beyond 111 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: my wildest dreams, was actually not the life that I 112 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: am most aligned with. And so what I'm living now 113 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: is the life to which I am most aligned and 114 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: it feels really good. 115 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: And can you tell us, because I think that's a 116 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: common experience that we have, and I'll take just a 117 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: step back to set kind of like my goal of 118 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: the Unaddictioned podcast. So I also recently wrote a book 119 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: and it's called Unaddiction Six mind changing conversations that could 120 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: save a life. And we wrote made up the word 121 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: an addiction, and it's un learn what you think you know, right, 122 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: which is part of what you just said. Undo stigma 123 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: that is killing people, specially around mothers with addiction. Uncover 124 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: the conversations that could save lives. Right. It's kind of 125 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: like this unaddictioned word that we made up. And so 126 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: what I hope to do with the podcast is for 127 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: people the same way you wrote this book, Like I 128 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: wrote this book for anybody who has not seen themselves 129 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: in a book. 130 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 2: I want people. 131 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: Listening to this podcast to hear themselves in the experiences 132 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: of all of the people who are coming on and 133 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: sharing with us the gift of the experiences they've had 134 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: and what they've learned. And so when you think about 135 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: the life of your wildest dreams, you drip that up. 136 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: Yeah right, yes, so like the life of your wildest 137 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: dreams turned out not to be the life that is 138 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: most the line and you didn't say this, but tell 139 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: me if these words are correct, kind of with your 140 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: sense of identity and health and wealth and well being 141 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: and calm and purpose and meaning, what was the space 142 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: between the two? How did you come to be aware 143 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: of the space between the life you thought was the 144 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: life of your dreams and the life that is actually 145 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: more aligned with who you conceive yourself to be. And 146 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: then what was kind of the journey to close that space? 147 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: I love the intent of your podcast. I think that's 148 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: dope like that. 149 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: We need this podcast, We need that place to talk 150 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: about these types of stories. And thank you for that question. 151 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: I you know, the journey for me was quite painful. 152 00:09:55,200 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 2: I am a really prideful, self sufficient I have been 153 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: ever since I was a little kid, and for me, 154 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: it's very shameful if I can't do something on my own, 155 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 2: And it also brings an unwanted spotlight to me, because 156 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: the way I survived my childhood was to be out 157 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: of the spotlight, to blend in, and so when I 158 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: ask for help, it brings what feels like an unwanted spotlight. 159 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 2: And I avoided that at all costs. And it's one 160 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 2: of the things that kept me in my addiction in 161 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 2: my marriage, in the behavior that supported those two things longer. Well, 162 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 2: there's no good time to be in an addiction, no 163 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 2: good length of time. But in my marriage, I was 164 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: in the marriage longer than was good for me. And 165 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: you know the reason for that was because I didn't 166 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 2: want to admit that this was too much for me. 167 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: I just thought, you know, I can. I just need 168 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: some more time to figure this out. There is a 169 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 2: way for me. And you know, at that point, I 170 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: was really just looking for a way to exist. I 171 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: wasn't looking to live or to thrive, or to find 172 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 2: joy or happiness. I was really just looking for a 173 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: way to exist where I didn't feel desperate all the 174 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: time or was asleep all the time because I was 175 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 2: doped up. And those were kind of my two speeds, 176 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: I was knocked out or desperate, and I guess there 177 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 2: was a third speed, pretending that I wasn't desperate while 178 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: I was desperate. And so, you know, the relief came 179 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: when I could take that costume off of pretending to 180 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: have it all together, put my kids to bed, knock 181 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: myself out like that was my only relief. And so 182 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: when it became untenable and I decided that I was 183 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: going to have to ask for help and do something. Note, 184 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: I was really progressed. I was really medically sick, so 185 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: I had to be medically detext. I could not at 186 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 2: the point that I was at. You know, certainly years before, 187 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: I could have stopped on my own, but where I 188 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: had gone to, I couldn't stop without medical intervention. So 189 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: I had to seek out help. Medical help is really 190 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: what I was looking for in the beginning, because I 191 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 2: didn't want any other kind of any other kind of help. 192 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 2: I was a therapy shunner, definitely not a joiner. I 193 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: still haven't. I mean, I've read self help books, but 194 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: only because I'm doing research on a guest. I've never 195 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: picked up a book to see, oh, this might be 196 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 2: a good way for me to achieve blah blah blah, 197 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 2: And so I was not a seeker at that point. 198 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: I was not a seeker of ways to evolve, you know. 199 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 2: Any thing that I sought out was a way to 200 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 2: stay high basically and get away with it, you know. 201 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 2: And then the through line firstash my life in hiding 202 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: is and to keep my kids. Like I wanted to 203 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: keep my kids in my life. That was my main goal, 204 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: but those other goals were right up there with it, 205 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 2: and I didn't want to admit that then. So the 206 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 2: journey to answer your question when I finally put the 207 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: substances down was, like I said, quite painful for me, 208 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: because I found myself in a position where the expectation 209 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: was that I was going to now continually seek help 210 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: not only to keep substances out of my life, but 211 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: to grow and evolve in a way where I wouldn't 212 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 2: need them, And I didn't want to do any of that. 213 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: I didn't want to. I didn't want to put them down, Perry. 214 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 2: I actually thought once I got them out of my system, 215 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: I would be able to figure out a way to 216 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 2: continue to use them in a way that you know, 217 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 2: normal people do. You know, occasionally I can take this 218 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 2: when I needed or occasionally I have a social drink, 219 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: and you know it. 220 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: Always. 221 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: You know, I'm somebody who barely made it past the 222 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 2: ninth grade, who didn't go to college. I have always 223 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: found a way around what other people have had to 224 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 2: go through the you know, these particular paces in order 225 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: to achieve a goal. You know, I started my own 226 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: company and I ran it and it was the most 227 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: successful black entertainment pr firm in well it was the 228 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 2: only one in Los Angeles for a while, but it 229 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: was very successful. And I did that without having to 230 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: get a degree or finish high school. And not that 231 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: that was easy, but I always found a way around 232 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 2: to get what I want. And I thought I would 233 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: find a way around this, and when it became clear 234 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: to me that there wasn't a way around it for me, 235 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: you know, joining these sober support groups and learning a 236 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: new way of living and being honest for the first 237 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 2: time since maybe I was five years old about everything, 238 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: because I had been editing myself for so long, I 239 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 2: was never completely honest. Even if I told you the truth, 240 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: it was only part of the truth. You know, I 241 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 2: would hide the rest of the truth because it might 242 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: alter the way you saw me and again put a 243 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: spotlight on me, which I did not want and I 244 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 2: still don't want. I still you know, I'm not seeking 245 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 2: out a spotlight. Stash was not a book I wanted 246 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: to write. It was absolutely the last book I wanted 247 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: to write, and it has thrust me into a spotlight 248 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 2: where this is what I'm talking about, but it's not. 249 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 2: It wouldn't be what I wanted. It was what I needed. 250 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 2: It is what I needed. And so the journey looked 251 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 2: like me, you know, sitting with my arms folded and 252 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 2: sunglasses on and lips pursed in backs of sober support rooms, 253 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: judging everybody leaving as soon as you know, leaving before 254 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: the meeting ended, and arriving after it started, you know, 255 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: coming to terms with there were people there who I 256 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: had similarities with and seeking them out. But you know, 257 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: just very much like the cat that you leave the 258 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: bowl of milk on the back porch for if somebody 259 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: made any big movements or approached me or I was 260 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: gone on the run. But if they just left the 261 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: milk out, they worth it, right, It's not worth it. 262 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: So I did that dance, you know, for for more 263 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: than a year, probably almost a couple of years being 264 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 2: one foot in and one foot out, and uh, you know, 265 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: my kids are getting older. My kids are little when 266 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: I got sober and they were starting to get older, 267 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: and I realize, you know, every minute, hour, you know, 268 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 2: day that went by, I realized more of who I 269 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 2: had been when I was using substances, and more that 270 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 2: I didn't like what I had to do in order 271 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 2: to live that life. And then really started to explore 272 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: who I was and what I did like because I 273 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 2: had put all that aside, I didn't know. So my 274 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 2: journey has been sixteen years of kind of figuring out 275 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 2: who I am and what brings me joy. And like 276 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 2: you said, I think you said the word serenity when 277 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: you were talking that serenity is something that I'm chasing 278 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 2: now as opposed to running from, because I did. I 279 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: ran from the calm. You know. 280 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: That serenity is something I'm chasing now as opposed to 281 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: running from. I think is a really powerful statement that 282 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: people will be able to relate to, because, like you said, 283 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: you had three speeds. 284 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, desperate, desperate, desperate, yes or high Yeah. 285 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: Like the image that I conjured up in my brain 286 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: when you said that is like being in a white room, 287 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: just screaming into a void. It has like mirrors on 288 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: all sides, and you get just like that infinite they're 289 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: infinite use in there and you're screaming but it is 290 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: just like into a void and nobody hears me, nobody 291 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: sees me, and there is no serenity there. But even still, 292 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: that's what I know how to do, right, So you 293 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: take me out of that room and put me in 294 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: a completely serene room, and that's just as stressful because 295 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how to do this. Yes, I'm running 296 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: from this also. 297 00:18:54,240 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean it's it's a total change. I 298 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: think in like the neuropathways, it's like my whole nervous 299 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 2: system needed to be reset. And that's not a one 300 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 2: time reset. It is over and over and over again. 301 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 2: And like I said, it was you know, it wasn't 302 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 2: all painful, but it wasn't pleasant and it was mostly uncomfortable. 303 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: The change where I am now it is mostly pleasant 304 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: and mostly comfortable, and I find joy every day, you know, 305 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 2: I find and I have, you know, a bunch of 306 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 2: tools for lack of a better word, that I used 307 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 2: to achieve that place where I can access it. But 308 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 2: then it was you know, I kept thinking, oh, you're 309 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 2: never going to do this, You're going to bail because 310 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 2: mostly when things are unpleasant or uncomfortable, it's a hard 311 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 2: no for me, like. 312 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: Just for you, I mean fight or flight or flee, yes, yes, 313 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: that's that's animal period. 314 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 2: Right right right, yeah, or freeze, which was me or freeze, 315 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: Yeah I was, I was freeze. I would just stay, 316 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 2: like I said, try to blend in like the gazelle 317 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: right when the lion spots it, like, just don't. 318 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: Move right, I'm invisible, invisible, you do not see me. 319 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that and that's it. So you know, that's 320 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 2: that's what it was like. And I do. I talk 321 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 2: about it a lot because I know that there are 322 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 2: a lot of people who put down substances and and 323 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: and not just you know substances like outside substances, but 324 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 2: there are a lot of people who put down shopping 325 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 2: and gambling and debting and you know, other ways to 326 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 2: activate the same system in one's body in mind. And 327 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: there are a lot of people who come in and think, 328 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: you know, they're relieved when they come into the rooms 329 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: of recovery or whatever that looks like for them, they're relieved. 330 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 2: I was not I was not relieved. 331 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: It felt like. 332 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 2: Everything was abrasive. So I tell this story so that 333 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,479 Speaker 2: if that's not your experience, if you don't come in 334 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: and feel safe and find yourself relieved, that perhaps there's 335 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 2: still room for you there, even though it might take 336 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 2: a little bit longer or it appears. 337 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that so much because I 338 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: think I'm gonna like stick this in the bucket of 339 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: things I want people to unlearn. And you touched on 340 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: one before that I'm going to try to pull out explicitly. 341 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: And then you said this one explicitly, which I want 342 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: to magnify. The one you touched on before is that 343 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: the concept of addiction is that the drug is the problem, 344 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: and as long as you stop using, everything falls into place. 345 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: When in reality, what we know and what we talk 346 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: about in this book an addiction, I talk about inherited factors, 347 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: so like stuff that you're born with or born into 348 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: that lay the foundation of risk for developing addiction to 349 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: a substance that somebody else can use socially right, and 350 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: then also the acquired so the life circumstances that we 351 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: experience over our lives once we get beyond childhood that 352 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: do the same thing, develop our risk factors for having 353 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: addiction to a substance that other people can use recreationally. 354 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: So like, the first thing to say explicitly is like, 355 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: stopping the drug is just and it may not even 356 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: be the first step. There may be other steps that 357 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: come before that for people, but it is just one 358 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: of the steps. Yes, it is not the cure. 359 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 2: It is not the cure. 360 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: And then the second thing, I love that you you 361 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: just said it explicitly, and I just want to shine 362 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: a light on it, although you were like, ain't nobody 363 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: trying to get lights shone on them? Shine light on it, 364 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: which is there's this sense that if you go to 365 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: the rooms of recovery, and like, I love that you said, 366 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: whatever that means for you. So some people that'll be 367 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: twelve steps, some people that'll be smart groups, some people 368 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: that'll be a spiritual congregation, some people that'll be gardening, 369 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: some people that'll be start running marathons. Like it varies 370 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: what that is for you. But just because the first 371 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: time you go you don't get that sense of warm 372 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: and brace and love and this is what I've been 373 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: looking for my whole life, doesn't mean it's not for you. 374 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I you know, I think that everything 375 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 2: in me balked at a different solution for what I 376 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 2: was treating. Everything that my mind, my mind was like, 377 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 2: oh no, no, no, this can't be the solution. We 378 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 2: got to go back to the drugs and booze like 379 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: that's a solution. Don't don't, don't engage in any of this. 380 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 2: And so I didn't even know what was happening. It 381 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 2: was like I was hijacked and my mind was telling 382 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: me get out, which is what I wanted to do. 383 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: But I was able to access what I what I 384 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 2: call my higher self, and able to access that at points, 385 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 2: and that allowed me to stay seated. Just to stay seated. 386 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 2: I didn't do anything else but stay seated. I didn't 387 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 2: really listen. I got sober before we had smartphones or 388 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 2: before they were abundant, so they had just come out 389 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 2: that year. So it was like I was going to 390 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: get on my phone, you know what I mean, and 391 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 2: lose myself. And that was there was nothing that I 392 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 2: could hold that would distract me. So for a book, 393 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 2: which I wasn't going to bring in read a book, 394 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: so I was surrounded by it without a distraction, but 395 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: I could only absorb so much even still yeah, yeah, yeah. 396 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: One of the concepts we talk about in an Addiction 397 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: is the magic formula. So, like I said, the first 398 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: part of the book, we talked through kind of like 399 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: the risk factors biological that you inherit. So like there 400 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: is a genetic component, actually a larger genetic component to 401 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: addiction than there is psychological and social component. There are 402 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: psychological components, there are environmental components, physical environment, cultural environment. 403 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: You're born into, some you acquire some along the way. 404 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 1: And so as you're seeking recovery, which is more than 405 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: just not using drugs, It is like that sense of 406 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: meaning and purpose and joy and calm, right and healing 407 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: in your life, everybody's inputs are different and so there 408 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: has to be a customized formula for you that addresses 409 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: those inputs. And I call that the magic formula. And 410 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: so you alluded earlier to that you have tools that 411 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: you use to bring this joy and meaning and sense 412 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: of purpose into your life each day. And that's another 413 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: thing that I want people to hear in this podcast 414 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: is like just a bajillion different tools and formulas that 415 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: people are using for you to say, oh, I never 416 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: thought about that. Maybe I'll try that that might be 417 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: something that I'll put in to my magic formula. And 418 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: so with that long set, you know, I'll just be 419 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: talking Lord to be like get to the question. Can 420 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: you can you tell us about your initial formula? Which 421 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: part of it was just sit in the room and 422 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: I know from the book, like you know document right, 423 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: So like can you just tell us from that initial 424 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: magic formula how that has evolved over time and what 425 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: are tools that you're using today? 426 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I you're really funny. I like talking 427 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 2: to you. I definitely have things that I do every day, 428 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 2: and I have a podcast, but what I really am 429 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 2: is an author and a writer. So my days consists 430 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 2: mainly of writing. That's what I spend most of my 431 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: time doing, and I write about you know, obviously Stash 432 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 2: contains a lot of traumatic experiences and memories of mine. 433 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 2: So and I'm going to relate this to my recovery 434 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 2: because it kind of goes hand in hand for me. 435 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 2: I needed to be able to write Stash without re 436 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 2: traumatizing myself, and that was a so I had needed 437 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 2: for me. I needed to have enough distance from that 438 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 2: and have done enough work so that I could look 439 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 2: at these instances and not be pulled back into it. 440 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 2: But in order to write about them, I have to 441 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 2: kind of relive them. So it's a tricky line. So 442 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 2: part of what I do to take care of myself 443 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: in recovery is also part of what I do to 444 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 2: take care of myself as an author, which is, you know, 445 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 2: when I wake up, I have a reading contact in 446 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 2: so that I can read my other ices distance. But 447 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 2: when that's out when I'm sleeping, I can't read my 448 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 2: phone when I pick it up in the morning. So 449 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 2: part of what I do is I do not put 450 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 2: my glasses on until I've meditated. 451 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: So I love how practical this is. 452 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 2: Yes, I can see maybe there are ten dms I 453 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: can see like an I can get it, you know, 454 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 2: a gist of it, but I don't read it until 455 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 2: after I've meditated. I use my phone to meditate. I 456 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: have an app, and so I look for like a 457 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: ten to twenty minute meditation, depending how much time I have, 458 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 2: and I get up. If my boyfriend's still sleeping next 459 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 2: to me, I'll get up and go meditate. He's a surfer. 460 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: Very often he's up at four thirty, so he's up 461 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 2: before me, and he's gone. But that's the first thing 462 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: I do is meditate, and the second thing I do 463 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 2: just take supplements and drink a liter of water. I 464 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 2: don't like drinking that much water, but it is good 465 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: for to start my day with. Like it's it's good 466 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 2: for me. 467 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: Yes, my lateral water comes out of a random line. 468 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: I love that. 469 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm ginger tea. 470 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: You reuseable? Yes, yes? Or maybe a cickle jar depends 471 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: on that. 472 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's just it sets me up 473 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 2: to have a better day than if I go in 474 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 2: not hydrated. These are things I've learned about myself along 475 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: the way. I do take supplements, you know, for thyroid, 476 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: for you know, hair growth, for like you know those 477 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: types of things. 478 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: Your hair girls, supplement is working okay, because you are 479 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: all hair full and glossy. Thank you, thank you. 480 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 2: But you know, I've I've ran out of my supplements 481 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: a couple of times. I've been traveling and not had them, 482 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 2: and I notice no difference in my energy level. So 483 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 2: I thought, oh I don't have them, everything's going to 484 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: be different, and I didn't feel anything different. But I 485 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: take them anyway because I know that they're good for me. 486 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 2: On Sundays, I food prep and I say this to 487 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 2: be because and I'll tell you why this is important 488 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 2: for me, Because I am a junk food junkie, like 489 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 2: I would subsist on Eminem's pepsi and French fries if 490 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 2: I were allowed to, and something with cheese probably cannot 491 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 2: forget the cheese. Cannot forget the cheese. But I'm just saying, right, 492 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 2: but I haven't eaten that way for a long time, 493 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 2: and so in order for me not to go to 494 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 2: what I feel like is comfort food, especially when I've 495 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 2: been writing, because I write pretty long hours. I try 496 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 2: to write for eleven to seven, and that's a long time. 497 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 2: I usually make it to around six o'clock. But it's 498 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 2: very like I want comfort food. I want a slice 499 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: of I want a bowl of mac and cheese. 500 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: And so you know that's actually like neurobi a lot. Yes, yes, 501 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: I've heard that. I've heard that. 502 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 2: I don't know a lot about it, but I know 503 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: that those are things that my mind is asking for. 504 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah, So what I do is I chop 505 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 2: up fruits and vegetables On Sunday. I have a salad 506 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 2: that I love that requires a lot of chopped vegetables. 507 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: But if I had to tell me about this, okay, 508 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 2: I am also a junk food lover and a salad lover. 509 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: Excellent, So okay, tell me about this this salad. 510 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 2: So there there's actually two. I make one with baby spinach, 511 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: and it has cucumbers, snap peas, beets, raw beets not 512 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 2: cooked at almonds like almond slivers. It has scallions, It 513 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 2: has cherry tomatoes, it has what else does it have 514 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: in it? That might be it? Sometimes this is beautiful. 515 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: Can I put some cheese on this salad? 516 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 2: You could? You could? I actually, so I'm plant based. 517 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 2: Now I've been plant based for four years, so I've 518 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 2: put feta in it, but it's plant based feta feta crumbles. 519 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 2: And Scottie, he's the cook in the family. He makes 520 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 2: me different salad dressings that are also plant based, so 521 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 2: I have a variety of those to choose from. So 522 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 2: I just have them all in different containers, all the 523 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: things that I chop the cucumbers, the tomatoes, that everything's 524 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 2: in a different you know, just like a deli cup. 525 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 2: And I chop up the spinach with scissors, with kitchen 526 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 2: scissors so they're bite sized, and then I pour all 527 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 2: the other ingredients and mix it in with dressing, and 528 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 2: I eat it and it's fast, and it's fast. I 529 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 2: can do it at my desk if I want. I 530 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 2: try not to. That's that's not as good for me either. 531 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 2: In sitting as the new smoking. So I wear my 532 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: apple for the people in the bag. 533 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: It is by the people in the back I mean, 534 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: doctor Rinzinga Harrison. I'm sitting in the back road. 535 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 2: But it's you know, it's just not great for you 536 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 2: to sit for long periods of time. So though, that 537 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: is another thing that I do that is good for 538 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 2: for my cause when I do eat junk food, and 539 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 2: you can eat a lot of junk food when your 540 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 2: plant based, my brain is, first of all, it's focused 541 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 2: on that. Then it's like, ooh, there should be some 542 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 2: more potato chips right upstairs, let's go get those. But also, 543 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 2: I just have a different experience with my day. I'm 544 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 2: more tired, I'm I'm less patient. I feel more easily 545 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 2: irritated by things like my boyfriend's breathing. 546 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: Oh man, all he has to do is breathe. 547 00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 2: Sometimes sometimes it's you know, he has a very strong 548 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 2: breath flow, and you know, most of the time when 549 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 2: I'm right, I don't even hear it. Yeah, but when 550 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 2: like my antennas, yes, there's nothing. So I food prep, 551 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 2: I meditate. I Also, the other thing I do after 552 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 2: I drink that leader of water is I work out 553 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 2: and I either write my peloton or I go to 554 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 2: the gym where I do strength training, and I do 555 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 2: that five days a week. I don't work out every day. 556 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 2: I give myself two days to have two days of rest, 557 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 2: but actually on Saturday I do a hike, so it's 558 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 2: not a complete day of rest. And you know, I 559 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 2: balance out, like I don't book myself for one social 560 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 2: more than one social thing a day. I actually try 561 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 2: not to book myself for more than one thing a day. 562 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 2: If I'm leaving the house, I'm leaving the house for 563 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,399 Speaker 2: one thing and then I'm coming back home. I don't 564 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 2: stab my days. And I want to also just recognize 565 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 2: and acknowledge that there is privilege in that I am 566 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 2: able to do that, you know. So it's it's it's 567 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 2: what works for me, you know, at my age. I'm 568 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 2: turning sixty in August, and I feel like I've earned 569 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 2: a little bit of like do what you want, you know, 570 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 2: what you like, so do what you want? 571 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: Right? 572 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 2: Yes, so's that's kind of what I've been exploring, just 573 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 2: to see what's good for me. Working Out is good 574 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 2: for me, food prep is good for me, Meditating is 575 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 2: good for me. I pretend I attend sober recovery support meetings. 576 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 2: I attend probably two or three a week. You definitely two, 577 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 2: sometimes a third. That's good for me. And I want 578 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 2: to also just quickly give you the caveat that after 579 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 2: in of these things that I'm listening, I never feel good. 580 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 2: I'm never glad I worked out. I'm never glad that 581 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 2: I ate the salad. I'm never glad that I meditated. 582 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 2: But and I shouldn't say I'm not glad that I did. 583 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 2: I don't feel good because of it. I don't right, 584 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 2: you don't get an immediate no now. But I am 585 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 2: so much better in total because of those things. And 586 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 2: I have that ability Like if if addiction is disease, 587 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 2: a state of dis ease, what my life looks like 588 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,439 Speaker 2: now is ease. You know where I and I love 589 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 2: the ease. I want it. I want that ease. So 590 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 2: if these are the things that work, this is what 591 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,720 Speaker 2: I'm doing, that's right. I love that perspective, because we are. 592 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: Conditioned to need the immediate reinforcement, and that's what drugs 593 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: do for us. And that's what junk food does for 594 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: us through the exact same pathway at through the dopamine pathway. 595 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: That's what gambling does with us. That's what sex does 596 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: for us. That's what shopping does for us. That's what 597 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: clearing out social media notifications does for us. Right, Like, 598 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: it gives us that dopamine ping and gives us that 599 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: immediate reinforcement. But I love this idea of the longitumine 600 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: of you, and I would say this is kind of 601 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: core to recovery is if addiction is disease, then recovery 602 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: is finding the life that brings you ease. And that 603 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: will be different for everyone. Right Like, you were like 604 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: I only do one social thing a day, and I 605 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: was like, oh, I love to only do one thing. 606 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: I literally like found myself like dreaming about it. Whereas 607 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: a colleague of mine the other day was like, if 608 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: I could, I would throw a party every day. I 609 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, yeah, So like her life of 610 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: ease wouldn't be only one social activity right a day, 611 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: or one commitment a day. And so just honoring that 612 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: process of one coming to understand what ease means for you, yes, 613 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: and then not judging ourselves because I think we're also 614 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: very conditioned when we figure it out to say like, 615 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: but that's not right, right, right, Like I shouldn't be 616 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: I shouldn't be like that. Just being able to be 617 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: unapologetic for finding ease. 618 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 2: That is it unapologetic? 619 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: Right? 620 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? 621 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: Okay, time flies too fast one when you have ten 622 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: minutes of technical difficulties too when the conversation is flowing 623 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: so easy. But we are rounding the bend. So the 624 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: last question I like to ask everyone, and sometimes I 625 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: remember to tell them in the beginning, and I did 626 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: not remember to tell you, so Yes, the name of 627 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: my book is an addiction unlearned what you think you know, 628 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: undo stigma, us killing people, Uncover conversations that could save 629 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: somebody's life. If you wanted to tell us one thing 630 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: or two or three whatever that you want us to unlearn, 631 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: or one thing that you want us to undo, or 632 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: one thing one conversation you want us to uncover you 633 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: really think could save somebody's life, what would you leave 634 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: us with? Wow? 635 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 2: I think, and I will say for myself this is 636 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 2: something I would like to unlearn is and this still 637 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 2: happens to me, you know. And the program that I'm in, 638 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 2: the recovery, the Sober Support Group, I guide ten or 639 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,959 Speaker 2: eleven women I can't remember how many right now through 640 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 2: the same program, and I have someone who guides me 641 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 2: through it. I'm always working with people who are having 642 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 2: experiences that are challenging, work with people who drink again 643 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 2: and use again, or you know, break their their sex 644 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 2: and love sobriety, or or or with food addiction, to 645 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 2: break that sobriety in the various ways it can be broken. 646 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 2: And you know, my with them, I have this immediate 647 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 2: well spring of tolerance. Like I get it. I absolutely 648 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 2: get it. I understand. I do an internal diagnostic sweep 649 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,800 Speaker 2: to see if there's any judgment there, and I don't 650 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 2: find any. However, when there are people outside of my 651 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 2: circle and you know, maybe they're raising their hand for 652 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 2: the sixteenth time as somebody who's starting a day count 653 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 2: again or whatever it might be, and you know, I do, 654 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 2: I find I find myself judging this is really the 655 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 2: main thing. I find myself judging other pathways to recovery 656 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 2: and dismissing them as shortcuts or just you know, like 657 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:28,919 Speaker 2: subpar for whatever reason, because they're not as they don't 658 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,319 Speaker 2: have the same components as the program that I'm in, 659 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 2: which are the only components that work. Right, this is 660 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,919 Speaker 2: in my head, and so you know, and a lot 661 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 2: of other programs don't even do daycounts. They don't you know, 662 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 2: you don't have to confess if you have picked up 663 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 2: whatever whatever you put down again. You just keep pushing. 664 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 2: And that's a really beautiful way to go for a 665 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 2: lot of people, and it's the only way they could 666 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 2: go forward. Right. So, I think what I'd like to 667 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 2: unlearn about addiction is really what I want to unlearn 668 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 2: about recovery, which is that there is a path to it, 669 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:16,760 Speaker 2: and any variations of that path are open for judgment, 670 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 2: and to really not just say the words, but shift 671 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 2: internally so that I'm not judging when someone else brings 672 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 2: these things up to me or something for them that worked, 673 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 2: I'm not like, yeah, not for long in my head, 674 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,880 Speaker 2: Oh that worked for you. Just wait, I'll be saving 675 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 2: a seat for you. I would really not like to 676 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,840 Speaker 2: unlearn that talk inside of me and skip to the 677 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 2: same thing that I skip to with the women I 678 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 2: was talking about which is absolute compassion and identification, regardless 679 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,919 Speaker 2: of how anybody gets to where they're going, as long 680 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 2: as they're moving in that direction, even if they're not, 681 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 2: one is none of my business. And two, there are 682 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 2: a variety of ways, you know, in just as there 683 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 2: are many ways to be black, right, there are, so 684 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 2: we are not a monolith. It's and people who see 685 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 2: us that way are really missing out on the nuances 686 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 2: and the subtleties and the variety. And I think it 687 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 2: is the same for recovery. And I think that maybe 688 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 2: there's not as many recognize, you know, by legally right 689 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,200 Speaker 2: by the courts, there's one way. If you're going to 690 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 2: be sentenced to anything, you're going to be sentenced to this. 691 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:48,280 Speaker 2: But I would like to myself open up and see things, 692 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,400 Speaker 2: like I said, not just with more compassion, because that 693 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,319 Speaker 2: almost sounds like it borderlines pity, but just with more 694 00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 2: curiosity and generosity. Anything that anyone does, I would like 695 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 2: to see it with more curiosity and generosity instead of 696 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 2: being snide and internally, you know, I really try not 697 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 2: to project this nightness, but instead of that snide you know, 698 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:20,439 Speaker 2: little Aunt June voice in my head, she ain't gonna 699 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 2: make it. Just watch. I want that voice. 700 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: I love it so much, and I think I think 701 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: you may be the first guess to say what I 702 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: want to unlearn as opposed to this is what I 703 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 1: want people to unlearned, which I really value that. I 704 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: really value that, and I think we all get programmed 705 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 1: with Aunt Jude's little voice, and so I definitely want 706 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: all of us to unlearn that snide voice and learn 707 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: the voice of curiosity and generosity. I think that's really beautiful. Okay, 708 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 1: that is it, But I promise, like I for really 709 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: want to be your friend. Yes, the last time, I'm 710 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:12,280 Speaker 1: in Atlanta. 711 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 2: Georgia, really decaying you're in Atlanta. Yes, the main the 712 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 2: water main broke yesterday. 713 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,319 Speaker 1: I didn't even know. No, I no, I hope I'm 714 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: on a different water mean, we just our water heater 715 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,959 Speaker 1: just like weeks ago, and the water, the hot water 716 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 1: came out of the it looked like mud. I was like, 717 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: what is happening? But thank you, thank you, thank you, 718 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Yeah for coming on the podcast, 719 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: Like I said, for writing this book, and I especially 720 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,400 Speaker 1: want to emphasize what you said earlier, like this is 721 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: not just like just writing a book. You had to 722 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: protect yourself while you were writing this book, while you 723 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: were opening kind of to the deepest part of the 724 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 1: scariest thing that you have been through. And so I 725 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,879 Speaker 1: think that's just really beautiful that you did that for us. 726 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 1: And then lastly, I read your book while I was 727 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,279 Speaker 1: in Mexico and I emailed Jada and I was like, 728 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: I want season four to be dedicated to black people. 729 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,480 Speaker 1: And it was because of what you wrote in your 730 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,520 Speaker 1: author's note. Yes, so we are dedicating season four of 731 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: an addiction podcast to black people. 732 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:36,800 Speaker 2: So thank you, Yes, thank you, thank you. That is wonderful. 733 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:38,280 Speaker 2: I will be listening. 734 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 1: We're going to get. 735 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 2: Together in real life one day. So my podcast is 736 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,560 Speaker 2: called the Only One in the Room. It was born 737 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,320 Speaker 2: out of a viral article that I wrote for HuffPo 738 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen. I got into a three day, six 739 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,759 Speaker 2: hundred person retreat led by Elizabeth Gilbert and Cheryl Strade, 740 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,360 Speaker 2: and for three days, I was the only black person 741 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,799 Speaker 2: I saw, and I was checking the kitchens and housekeeping. 742 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,880 Speaker 2: I was like, there's got to be another black person 743 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 2: here somewhere. I'd never been in a space with that 744 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,359 Speaker 2: many people where I was the only person in the room. 745 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 2: I'd been the only one in the room, but never 746 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,799 Speaker 2: that many people, and so I wrote about it. The 747 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,359 Speaker 2: article went viral, and I knew that black people would 748 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,919 Speaker 2: respond to it, but I honestly thought that only black 749 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:30,920 Speaker 2: people would respond to it. But what happened was I started, 750 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,880 Speaker 2: I was flooded with responses from all kinds of people 751 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 2: all over the world. It went viral really quickly, and 752 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 2: they sent back stories, like one of them was a 753 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 2: white woman in her sixties who went in to take 754 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,800 Speaker 2: a yoga class and she's overweight, and everybody turned to 755 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 2: look at her like she had two heads, and she left. 756 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,320 Speaker 2: And so I was like to Scott, who's my boyfriend? 757 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,919 Speaker 2: And now he's the executive producer, Like this could be 758 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 2: a podcast where we tell these only one stories. We're 759 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,040 Speaker 2: you know, not just stories of black people who or 760 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,800 Speaker 2: minorities who feel like, you know, I'm alone in the 761 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:15,359 Speaker 2: dominant culture. But we could tell stories of anyone who 762 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,600 Speaker 2: felt like there were room alone in a room full 763 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,760 Speaker 2: of people. So so those are the stories we tell. 764 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:25,239 Speaker 2: The podcast has a little over five million downloads. I 765 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 2: think we have eight hundred and something episodes in the can. 766 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,359 Speaker 2: We're now in our twentieth season and we you know, 767 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 2: we just we just keep rocking. And it's kind of 768 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,879 Speaker 2: a folding your laundry podcast. They're all stories, so it's 769 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:46,400 Speaker 2: a storytelling podcast. It's not prescriptive, it's not it's not 770 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 2: how to. We don't generally any bring on anybody that's 771 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 2: an expert just because they're an expert. We need their story. 772 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,840 Speaker 2: So if you are taking a hike, or folding the 773 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 2: laundry or cooking dinner, this is the podcast for you. 774 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,400 Speaker 2: Thank you for letting me talk about. 775 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,279 Speaker 1: It a little bit. Wow. Thank you so much for 776 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,399 Speaker 1: tuning in. And if you like this episode, please check 777 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: out my book on Addiction, Six mind Changing Conversations that 778 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 1: Could Save a Life, available at Barnes and Noble, Bookshop 779 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:21,440 Speaker 1: dot Org, Union Scoring Company, Amazon, and wherever books are sold. 780 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,919 Speaker 1: We want to hear from you. If you identify as 781 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,800 Speaker 1: black or brown and have a recovery story to share, 782 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,719 Speaker 1: something you've learned, a stigma that you've undone, or a 783 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,640 Speaker 1: conversation that you've had about addiction. Send us a voicemail 784 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:43,280 Speaker 1: at speakpipe dot com, slash you apod that's speak pipe 785 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,760 Speaker 1: dot com, slash you a pod