WEBVTT - Rhiannon Giddens Comes Home 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:25.236 Pushkin. Brandon Giddins is a brilliant fiddle and banjo player 0:00:25.796 --> 0:00:28.916 who's one of the few musicians alive today trained in 0:00:28.956 --> 0:00:33.316 the centuries old black string band tradition. Giddins won a 0:00:33.356 --> 0:00:35.476 Grammy as a co founder and lead singer of the 0:00:35.516 --> 0:00:39.356 Carolina Chocolate Drops in twenty eleven, and after venturing off 0:00:39.356 --> 0:00:41.956 on her own, she was awarded at MacArthur Genius Green 0:00:42.436 --> 0:00:45.716 for exploring the complexities of the African American influence on 0:00:45.796 --> 0:00:59.556 folk and country music. Ah Sha Shallna Aha Shallna. De 0:00:59.796 --> 0:01:14.556 Mond B. Goods get Ins is a North Carolina native, 0:01:14.956 --> 0:01:17.596 but now lives in Ireland, not far from her partner 0:01:17.636 --> 0:01:23.076 of Francesco Teresi. During Lockdown, the duo recorded their latest album, 0:01:23.116 --> 0:01:26.436 They're Calling Me Home, which was in part influenced by 0:01:26.516 --> 0:01:30.316 Joe Thompson, who taught Gettons his family's traditional fiddle style 0:01:30.596 --> 0:01:33.996 that can be traced back to the eighteen hundreds. On 0:01:34.036 --> 0:01:37.436 today's episode, Bruce Headlam talks to Gettons about her decision 0:01:37.476 --> 0:01:39.996 to write from a cultural point of view rather than 0:01:39.996 --> 0:01:42.876 her own. Gettens also talks about how she's been able 0:01:42.916 --> 0:01:46.116 to maintain a living connection to the near extinct black 0:01:46.156 --> 0:01:49.716 square dance players and we'll hear a play a banjo 0:01:49.796 --> 0:01:57.276 style that originated in West Africa. This is broken record 0:01:57.476 --> 0:02:05.676 liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmondson. Here's 0:02:05.716 --> 0:02:09.916 Bruce Headlam with Rhiannon Giddins. Thank you all so much 0:02:10.196 --> 0:02:13.636 for doing this. We're talking about your new album and 0:02:14.076 --> 0:02:16.836 your last album and anything else. You want to talk 0:02:16.876 --> 0:02:20.076 about your ballet. You wrote a ballet too, didn't you. Yeah, 0:02:20.196 --> 0:02:23.316 I wrote a ballet an opera. I didn't know about 0:02:23.316 --> 0:02:25.996 the opera. What was that, Well, it was supposed to 0:02:26.076 --> 0:02:27.716 debut last year, and then it was going to debut 0:02:27.796 --> 0:02:30.956 this year, and that's going to debut next year. But yeah, 0:02:30.996 --> 0:02:34.356 it's called Omar. It's for this Plato festival, and it's 0:02:34.676 --> 0:02:39.516 about Omara Ben Said, who was a Koranic scholar thirty 0:02:39.556 --> 0:02:44.476 seven years old, captured, sold from Senegal, brought over on 0:02:44.556 --> 0:02:48.076 the Middle Passage and ended up enslaved for fifty years 0:02:48.156 --> 0:02:51.076 until his death in North Carolina. He wrote his autobiography 0:02:51.076 --> 0:02:54.636 in Arabic. Wow, that sounds incredible. Yeah, it's just the 0:02:54.636 --> 0:02:56.916 there's a lot of a lot of stories within that 0:02:56.956 --> 0:03:00.716 one story. So yeah, you know, this new record is 0:03:01.436 --> 0:03:06.476 almost all you know, old material, traditional, traditional songs or 0:03:06.596 --> 0:03:09.236 songs that were written you know, in that style or 0:03:09.356 --> 0:03:12.356 recent and all of my original material has been gone 0:03:12.396 --> 0:03:16.196 into an opera last a couple of years. So I 0:03:16.316 --> 0:03:19.796 was like, well, hopefully people will be okay, there's it's 0:03:19.836 --> 0:03:21.756 not it's not a it's not an original writer. But 0:03:21.836 --> 0:03:23.716 you know, it's like, it's never been my bag anyway 0:03:24.036 --> 0:03:27.196 writing stuff. Well, it's not. It's not my It's never 0:03:27.236 --> 0:03:30.156 been my focus. Like if if the story is told 0:03:30.156 --> 0:03:33.196 best through an original song, I'll do it. But I 0:03:33.556 --> 0:03:35.756 was an interpreter for years before I ever thought about 0:03:35.756 --> 0:03:39.236 writing songs, So I'm never sitting down going Okay, I 0:03:39.276 --> 0:03:41.396 need to write a new album. It's like if there's 0:03:41.476 --> 0:03:45.276 no inspiration to write the song, and there often isn't 0:03:45.916 --> 0:03:48.996 because it's just there's so many great songs out there already. 0:03:49.396 --> 0:03:52.796 There's so much great music, so it has to be something. Really, 0:03:53.356 --> 0:03:55.356 I feel like I can tell in a way that's 0:03:56.596 --> 0:03:59.356 you know, specific to me. That means, you know, I'm 0:03:59.396 --> 0:04:00.956 just not going to write for the sick of writing. 0:04:01.356 --> 0:04:03.276 Was it hard for you to start writing having been 0:04:03.316 --> 0:04:07.836 an interpreter for so long? No, because I you know, 0:04:07.876 --> 0:04:09.956 I don't really write about myself off I've only written 0:04:10.876 --> 0:04:13.596 a couple of songs from my points of view, and 0:04:13.636 --> 0:04:18.156 they're not on any of my records. You know, I 0:04:18.196 --> 0:04:21.756 write from a cultural point of view, from other people's 0:04:21.796 --> 0:04:24.236 point of view, and those are the songs that, you know, 0:04:24.916 --> 0:04:26.916 when they started to come out, it was those kind 0:04:26.916 --> 0:04:29.956 of songs like Julie, like at the Purchaser's Option, like 0:04:30.036 --> 0:04:34.116 you know, these very specific trying to highlight black and 0:04:34.196 --> 0:04:36.796 mostly female voices. You know that I feel like I 0:04:36.876 --> 0:04:38.996 need to be highlighted, and a lot of times they 0:04:39.076 --> 0:04:44.396 come through as as real spiritual kind of events, you know. 0:04:44.556 --> 0:04:47.956 I mean, I have written songs like I wrote usually 0:04:47.956 --> 0:04:51.356 with partners, like with people like I wrote all of 0:04:51.356 --> 0:04:54.836 my most of my Nashville songs with my songwriting partner 0:04:54.996 --> 0:04:59.316 from Louisiana, Dirk Powell. You know that that I could do. 0:04:59.716 --> 0:05:02.316 I was like, okay, like I can co write songs 0:05:02.316 --> 0:05:05.556 that I'm not connected to, like in a cultural way, 0:05:05.636 --> 0:05:10.036 you know, but just coming from me, I did want MPR. 0:05:10.156 --> 0:05:12.756 It was like songs you know, coming out of the 0:05:12.796 --> 0:05:17.836 experiences of lockdown, and it was I found it very torturous, 0:05:17.836 --> 0:05:21.956 Like yeah, I was just like, who cares about what 0:05:22.076 --> 0:05:28.276 I'm feeling? Like it's my feelings and really, my life's 0:05:28.316 --> 0:05:31.396 not that bad. What's what do I need to say here? 0:05:31.436 --> 0:05:34.436 It was very it was a very interesting thing, and 0:05:34.476 --> 0:05:36.956 it just solidified what I do and what I don't do. 0:05:38.636 --> 0:05:40.756 That's a very funny thing for an artist to say, though, 0:05:40.956 --> 0:05:45.276 who cares what I'm feeling? Well, I feel like everybody 0:05:45.836 --> 0:05:48.196 makes their art in the way that makes sense to them, 0:05:48.236 --> 0:05:53.036 and for me, I am the least important and interesting thing. 0:05:53.916 --> 0:05:56.556 And what I do? You know, and it's not I 0:05:56.676 --> 0:05:58.716 know that there's amazing songs out there that have come 0:05:58.756 --> 0:06:01.556 out of people's experiences that have made a great difference 0:06:01.596 --> 0:06:04.276 to people. And you know, I've enjoyed some of those songs, 0:06:04.316 --> 0:06:07.036 and it's a totally valid way to go. It's just 0:06:07.076 --> 0:06:09.956 not my way. Your new album is great, it's coming 0:06:09.956 --> 0:06:12.716 out in a little while, so tell me about making 0:06:12.756 --> 0:06:15.636 this album. You know, everybody has had to adjust to 0:06:15.716 --> 0:06:21.316 this pandemic, like and I say, like, there's just such 0:06:21.396 --> 0:06:24.596 huge differences between how how you know, people who are 0:06:24.636 --> 0:06:30.076 comfortably off well off and people who aren't have had 0:06:30.196 --> 0:06:32.676 a pandemic. You know, there's been people who've never had 0:06:32.716 --> 0:06:35.476 to stop working interacting with people because they're on front 0:06:35.476 --> 0:06:38.396 lines or their service industry or anything. You know, they 0:06:38.516 --> 0:06:41.396 needed the paycheck and people who could just kind of 0:06:41.396 --> 0:06:44.116 hold up in their houses for a year. And there's 0:06:44.196 --> 0:06:47.196 detrimental things to all of it. But I just say 0:06:47.396 --> 0:06:51.356 all of it with an acknowledgement of privilege. You know, 0:06:51.636 --> 0:06:55.156 I think it's very important to to do that, but 0:06:55.316 --> 0:06:59.636 to say that in general, you know, artists, musicians, there's 0:06:59.676 --> 0:07:03.876 an additional difficulty, you know, in that are very work. 0:07:04.316 --> 0:07:06.676 It's like where like the restaurant industry, you know, it's like, 0:07:06.676 --> 0:07:10.436 our very work involves people. You know, we can't just 0:07:10.556 --> 0:07:12.396 not work in an office and work at home and 0:07:12.596 --> 0:07:16.916 do emails like it's so that's been really hard. And 0:07:16.956 --> 0:07:20.116 then I just got the idea. We've been playing these 0:07:20.636 --> 0:07:23.636 old folk songs that were you know, JA were just 0:07:23.676 --> 0:07:26.036 kind of cropping up. You know, I was just finding myself, 0:07:26.076 --> 0:07:28.476 you know, sit down, we sit down with our instruments, 0:07:28.476 --> 0:07:30.396 and I would just start singing. And I just said, 0:07:30.556 --> 0:07:32.876 let's just start singing these. Let's just start doing these 0:07:32.876 --> 0:07:35.396 in the stream. You know, this is my partner, Francesco. 0:07:35.996 --> 0:07:38.316 And it was like night and day. It was like, 0:07:38.356 --> 0:07:41.076 oh my gosh, these songs have never been on stage 0:07:41.636 --> 0:07:44.556 and we're doing them because we're connecting to them right now. 0:07:44.676 --> 0:07:47.116 And I said, let's just run into the studio and 0:07:47.156 --> 0:07:50.276 record these. I'm just feeling them right now. How did 0:07:50.796 --> 0:07:56.876 your situation isolation, how did they inform the choice of songs? Well, 0:07:57.716 --> 0:07:59.956 these songs, the songs of kit were coming up. I mean, 0:07:59.956 --> 0:08:03.396 we're ones I hadn't done in a long time. You know, 0:08:03.396 --> 0:08:06.236 a couple of them predate. The Carolina Chocolate Drop stays 0:08:06.276 --> 0:08:07.956 like it was just when I was just getting into 0:08:08.476 --> 0:08:10.356 all the time music and I think, you know, and 0:08:10.396 --> 0:08:13.116 the Italian ones were you know, they're ones that Francesco 0:08:13.236 --> 0:08:15.396 is known for a very long time. The two main 0:08:15.516 --> 0:08:17.796 themes of the record are like home and death. So 0:08:17.796 --> 0:08:20.956 we're like surrounded by death every day. It's how many 0:08:20.956 --> 0:08:24.796 people have died, like literally the news every day. And 0:08:24.796 --> 0:08:26.596 then we're like, how many people have died in Italy? 0:08:26.596 --> 0:08:28.116 How many people have died in the US? How many 0:08:28.116 --> 0:08:30.316 people have died in North Carolina? Are my parents going 0:08:30.356 --> 0:08:31.956 to die? Are we even going to be able to 0:08:31.956 --> 0:08:34.236 go home? You know, it's just like all the stuff 0:08:34.236 --> 0:08:38.196 that everybody's been dealing with, but like that's in the 0:08:38.236 --> 0:08:41.276 air all the time. So these you know, stuff like, oh, 0:08:41.396 --> 0:08:45.636 death just comes up and the idea of not being 0:08:45.676 --> 0:08:50.796 able to go home. And so these songs are not 0:08:50.916 --> 0:08:54.836 just any songs, but there's songs when I was really 0:08:55.956 --> 0:08:59.636 coming into my own as as as identifying as a 0:08:59.676 --> 0:09:04.676 North Carolinian, you know, like for me as a mixed person, multiracial, 0:09:05.036 --> 0:09:07.836 but like, there's no there was no space for that. 0:09:07.876 --> 0:09:10.076 When I was a kid, it was like black, white, 0:09:10.116 --> 0:09:13.396 and other, and you had to check a box. And 0:09:13.436 --> 0:09:16.676 I just I had this existential dilemma every time I 0:09:16.716 --> 0:09:19.236 filled out a form. Did you fill it out differently? 0:09:19.676 --> 0:09:23.796 At different times I did. Sometimes I filled all the 0:09:23.836 --> 0:09:27.116 boxes in it depended on how much in trouble I 0:09:27.116 --> 0:09:28.436 would get if I you know, so it was like 0:09:28.476 --> 0:09:31.596 the sat or something. I like, you know, I've put 0:09:31.636 --> 0:09:33.356 it black because I was. I talked to my mom 0:09:33.396 --> 0:09:35.796 about it, and she's just like, look, you know, for 0:09:35.836 --> 0:09:38.196 all intents and purposes in this country, you're considered black. 0:09:38.236 --> 0:09:40.356 So that's what you put down, you know. But you know, 0:09:40.476 --> 0:09:42.916 I circle that in. I think of my dad, who's white, 0:09:42.996 --> 0:09:45.036 you know, and I'm just like and back then, I 0:09:45.036 --> 0:09:47.356 didn't understand the nuance of the one drop rule and 0:09:47.436 --> 0:09:49.156 the history and all that stuff. All I knew is 0:09:49.636 --> 0:09:52.396 just doesn't feel right to me, you know, neither one 0:09:52.436 --> 0:09:55.796 feels right. So when I started finding the music of 0:09:55.916 --> 0:09:58.956 the root music of North Carolina in my early twenties, 0:09:59.676 --> 0:10:01.796 that's when I started going, oh, I know, I know 0:10:01.836 --> 0:10:04.236 what I am like, forget the color, I'm just like, 0:10:05.036 --> 0:10:09.956 there's Carolinian. And it really tied me to a a 0:10:10.076 --> 0:10:12.476 sense of belonging and a sense even though that's like 0:10:12.516 --> 0:10:14.876 I've been living in North Carolina my whole life, other 0:10:14.956 --> 0:10:18.036 than college, and but all of a sudden, I felt like, oh, o, candle, 0:10:18.036 --> 0:10:20.196 what that means? And I found that through the music. 0:10:20.276 --> 0:10:22.916 So when I sing these songs, it takes me back 0:10:22.956 --> 0:10:26.236 to that feeling of belonging, you know, at home. It's 0:10:26.276 --> 0:10:29.156 an interest, it's interesting. It's just like stuff I would 0:10:29.196 --> 0:10:33.996 have never thought about recording ever, and they're coming up 0:10:34.036 --> 0:10:37.556 and just like sing me like, Okay, what's an example 0:10:37.596 --> 0:10:39.436 of one of the first songs that occurred to you 0:10:39.476 --> 0:10:41.476 that you should you should put in this album for 0:10:41.516 --> 0:10:45.636 that reason? Well, like, you know, Blackish Crow came up 0:10:46.316 --> 0:10:48.396 and that that's what That was one of the first 0:10:49.156 --> 0:10:52.196 old time tunes I've ever learned. I still remember learning 0:10:52.236 --> 0:10:54.636 it from Steve Terrell wrote it. I wrote the words 0:10:54.676 --> 0:10:56.756 down like he's a kind of a Stalhart in the 0:10:56.836 --> 0:11:00.916 old time community in Greensboro, North Carolina, and I'm just 0:11:00.956 --> 0:11:05.116 thinking it was so beautiful. And then in and of itself, 0:11:05.156 --> 0:11:09.596 it's dealing with being separated from your loved one, and 0:11:10.516 --> 0:11:12.276 you know, I wish that I was going with you 0:11:12.356 --> 0:11:14.796 or you were staying here, you know, and especially in 0:11:14.836 --> 0:11:17.116 the beginning of the pandemic. You know, Francesco and I 0:11:18.036 --> 0:11:21.116 we don't live together because we have children who go 0:11:21.156 --> 0:11:24.916 to school in different cities, so we live where they live, 0:11:24.916 --> 0:11:27.356 and it's two and a half hours apart. So there 0:11:27.356 --> 0:11:29.276 were times when we were locked down, like it was 0:11:29.356 --> 0:11:32.116 serious lockdown, and like we didn't even couldn't even go 0:11:32.156 --> 0:11:34.316 see each other. So it's just like all of those 0:11:34.916 --> 0:11:38.516 thoughts in thinking about people who were separated, you know, continents, 0:11:38.556 --> 0:11:41.356 separated from their loved ones and not able to go 0:11:41.436 --> 0:11:43.596 see them, and you know, and there's a lot of 0:11:43.636 --> 0:11:46.476 songs about that because we haven't always been able to 0:11:46.476 --> 0:11:49.516 travel as easily as as we do now. That just 0:11:49.556 --> 0:11:54.276 came up. And then it's like the combination of taking 0:11:54.316 --> 0:11:57.196 this really old song and feeling like so it's an 0:11:57.236 --> 0:11:59.516 old song on its own, so it just has this connection, 0:11:59.556 --> 0:12:02.756 this kind of deep connection right to humanity. And then 0:12:03.596 --> 0:12:06.796 it's got this additional connection that I have, you know, 0:12:06.796 --> 0:12:09.116 as in North Carolinian and feeling like in North Carolinian 0:12:09.116 --> 0:12:13.396 missing North Carolina. And then we're doing it in a 0:12:13.476 --> 0:12:16.956 way that would never be done back home, you know, 0:12:17.196 --> 0:12:21.196 the way that Francesco plays the the cello banjo, which 0:12:21.316 --> 0:12:26.956 was originally owned by Mike Seeger. Yeah, because I knew 0:12:27.036 --> 0:12:31.116 him and his widow when he died, Alexeia made sure 0:12:31.276 --> 0:12:34.716 that his vast music collection, she let people that he 0:12:34.836 --> 0:12:39.596 knew and who knew him first come pick instruments to 0:12:39.636 --> 0:12:42.516 buy to be passed on too. And so I picked 0:12:42.516 --> 0:12:45.476 that in in a beautiful little banjo, and that cello 0:12:45.556 --> 0:12:48.836 banjo had been sitting in my house like I had 0:12:48.876 --> 0:12:51.196 never played it. I didn't know why I bought it, 0:12:51.476 --> 0:12:53.356 you know, but I just loved the sound of it, 0:12:53.556 --> 0:12:56.316 beautiful shape. He put these strings on it that just 0:12:56.316 --> 0:12:59.316 made it sound like a loot. And then Francesco came 0:12:59.356 --> 0:13:01.076 to my house and picked it up and started playing it, 0:13:01.076 --> 0:13:03.116 and I was like, well that's why I bought it. 0:13:03.356 --> 0:13:06.436 There you go. Yeah, And so that's all over the record, 0:13:06.476 --> 0:13:09.236 that banjo sound what we found that banjo and in 0:13:09.356 --> 0:13:12.716 my viola. So it's just like there's a lot wrapped 0:13:12.796 --> 0:13:15.316 up in that. And then Eymur is bringing in Ireland 0:13:15.676 --> 0:13:18.916 with the flute, the Irish flute, and so it was 0:13:18.996 --> 0:13:21.796 just a really I felt so fortunate to be able 0:13:21.836 --> 0:13:24.996 to have been able to have that time. You're in 0:13:25.076 --> 0:13:28.716 Ireland now right, been in Ireland since last March. We 0:13:28.796 --> 0:13:32.356 came from Australia. What's it like now to observe because 0:13:32.556 --> 0:13:35.876 you are in North Carolinian you're an American. What's it 0:13:35.956 --> 0:13:38.516 like to be out of the United States for now 0:13:38.516 --> 0:13:41.876 a year? Which is probably what you didn't expect. I 0:13:41.916 --> 0:13:46.996 didn't know. It has been hard, it's been weird. It's 0:13:47.076 --> 0:13:49.316 part of it a little easier, you know. I'm thinking 0:13:49.316 --> 0:13:53.116 of people like Baldwin who who found life abroad. It 0:13:53.276 --> 0:13:58.116 relieved them of something well in normal days. Yes, it 0:13:58.156 --> 0:13:59.756 was kind of a breath of fresh air to come 0:13:59.756 --> 0:14:02.516 to Ireland, you know, because this is my work. Like 0:14:03.276 --> 0:14:04.996 when all the stuff went down, the weight it went 0:14:05.036 --> 0:14:08.036 down last year, you know, people were calling me up 0:14:08.076 --> 0:14:10.316 and ask my opinions stuff. I was like, my opinion 0:14:10.316 --> 0:14:12.756 has not changed. I've been talking about this fifteen years 0:14:12.796 --> 0:14:16.676 go away. It's just like, I'm not surprised by any 0:14:16.716 --> 0:14:20.516 of this, you know, But in the in the before times, 0:14:20.676 --> 0:14:23.556 you know, I would be on the road talking about 0:14:23.556 --> 0:14:29.076 minstrel shows, coon songs, slavery every night in my you know, interviews, 0:14:29.116 --> 0:14:31.036 blah blah blah, doing this, doing that, and then I'd 0:14:31.076 --> 0:14:32.676 come back to Ireland and just kind of take a 0:14:32.716 --> 0:14:36.916 deep breath and it's not you know that the specter 0:14:36.996 --> 0:14:39.036 of that. I mean, they have other issues here, but 0:14:39.396 --> 0:14:41.516 the specter of that is not here. And I do 0:14:41.636 --> 0:14:44.356 I definitely understand that of just being away from it 0:14:44.356 --> 0:14:47.836 when it is your work, but that again, is different 0:14:48.276 --> 0:14:52.756 all together than being completely unable to go back to 0:14:52.796 --> 0:14:54.716 the well and then when all the stuff is going 0:14:54.756 --> 0:14:56.876 on and people are protesting, and I'm just like I 0:14:56.956 --> 0:14:59.276 have nothing to do and I can't do anything there, 0:15:00.036 --> 0:15:01.796 you know, like all my gigs have been canceled, but 0:15:01.836 --> 0:15:04.596 I can't even help. We'll be right back with more 0:15:04.636 --> 0:15:06.956 from Rhiannon get Ins and Bruce Head Them. After a 0:15:07.036 --> 0:15:14.796 quick break, We're back with more from Rhiannon Giddins. You 0:15:14.836 --> 0:15:18.996 know the sense of missing someone in folk music from 0:15:19.036 --> 0:15:23.076 Africa from Scotland I assume from Ireland is often about 0:15:23.076 --> 0:15:26.756 missing people across the whole ocean. That's sort of embedded 0:15:26.756 --> 0:15:29.316 in the music. So you must have felt that quite 0:15:29.356 --> 0:15:32.796 strongly when you were playing some of these tunes. Yeah, 0:15:32.836 --> 0:15:36.556 I mean them and see my family in over a year, Francesco, 0:15:36.676 --> 0:15:39.796 like especially in the beginning, like Italy was hit really hard, 0:15:40.076 --> 0:15:42.676 like people were dying left and right, and like he 0:15:42.716 --> 0:15:46.036 had relatives who got sick, and you know, just the 0:15:46.116 --> 0:15:49.276 stress of like if something happens, I can't even get there. 0:15:49.836 --> 0:15:52.236 It comes out in funny ways in the album because 0:15:52.516 --> 0:15:55.636 your version of I Shall not be Moved, which is 0:15:55.676 --> 0:15:59.476 an old spiritual which has been adopted by the labor movement, 0:15:59.796 --> 0:16:02.996 the civil rights movement, and maybe the words there are movements, 0:16:03.236 --> 0:16:06.796 because suddenly it's a song about not being moved, not 0:16:06.876 --> 0:16:09.516 being able to move. Almost were you thinking when you 0:16:09.596 --> 0:16:14.196 were recording it? I recorded that because for me, that 0:16:14.276 --> 0:16:17.236 was my connection to Joe Thompson, who was the black 0:16:17.236 --> 0:16:21.076 fiddler from Men, North Carolina, the elder that I like 0:16:21.276 --> 0:16:24.156 learned his family's tradition. Can you explain a little bit 0:16:24.156 --> 0:16:27.156 of when you met him and who he was? Yeah, 0:16:27.196 --> 0:16:30.356 of course, Yeah, Joe Thompson was even more important than 0:16:30.396 --> 0:16:33.316 we knew when we started going down to see him. 0:16:33.876 --> 0:16:37.436 He was a massively important person. He was the last 0:16:37.476 --> 0:16:40.436 of a family of black string band traditions. It had 0:16:40.476 --> 0:16:43.356 been passed on as a family tradition. He was part 0:16:43.356 --> 0:16:45.516 of the Thompson family band. They played for the white 0:16:45.516 --> 0:16:47.796 and the Black square dances in his area because everybody 0:16:47.836 --> 0:16:50.316 used to do. This is what people don't understand, because 0:16:50.476 --> 0:16:52.196 that's a whole other reason. There's a whole other story 0:16:52.236 --> 0:16:55.556 why people don't know that. And he was the last 0:16:55.916 --> 0:16:58.436 of his family to be playing this music, and nobody 0:16:58.436 --> 0:17:00.196 else had picked it up. And the people he used 0:17:00.196 --> 0:17:01.716 to play with or were dead his you know, his 0:17:01.796 --> 0:17:04.476 cousin and his brother, and so he was playing with 0:17:04.516 --> 0:17:07.276 white musicians, you know, wonderful people in the area. And 0:17:07.316 --> 0:17:10.596 then me and the other two original Carolina Chocolate Drops, 0:17:10.676 --> 0:17:14.036 Dom Flemans and Justin Robinson started going down to Meban 0:17:14.116 --> 0:17:16.156 to play with him because Meban was like forty five 0:17:16.156 --> 0:17:19.836 minutes away from where we all lived. And he passed 0:17:19.836 --> 0:17:23.116 on his family's tradition to us. You know. So he 0:17:23.196 --> 0:17:27.076 lived to be ninety two, and we're incredibly lucky to 0:17:27.276 --> 0:17:30.436 have had him because I found out later through the 0:17:30.476 --> 0:17:33.916 work of John Jeremiah Sullivan, that he is the musical 0:17:33.916 --> 0:17:38.196 descendant of Frank Johnson, who was a very famous black 0:17:38.236 --> 0:17:43.636 string band musician from the eighteen hundreds and bought himself 0:17:43.636 --> 0:17:46.156 out of slavery with his fiddle. And there's been an 0:17:46.236 --> 0:17:49.476 oral tradition that's been passed down from Frank Johnson to Joe, 0:17:49.556 --> 0:17:53.716 not to us. So it's just to have that connection 0:17:53.836 --> 0:18:00.756 to the once vast, incredibly influential, super important black string 0:18:00.796 --> 0:18:04.956 band tradition that's not almost completely gone, is you know, 0:18:05.116 --> 0:18:10.076 I sometimes like hyperventilate a little bit to myself when 0:18:10.116 --> 0:18:13.316 I think about, like how closely word of missing, you know, 0:18:13.396 --> 0:18:17.036 having a living connection to that. So I feel the 0:18:17.196 --> 0:18:20.476 responsibility and the importance of that quite a lot. And 0:18:20.556 --> 0:18:24.836 so anytime there's an opportunity to include one of his 0:18:24.876 --> 0:18:27.196 songs or to be able to talk about him and 0:18:27.236 --> 0:18:30.636 that when in particular, I had quoted when I when 0:18:30.636 --> 0:18:34.356 I wrote a song earlier this what was last year. 0:18:34.836 --> 0:18:37.156 I wrote it around juneteenth and I performed it with 0:18:38.396 --> 0:18:42.116 Yo Yoman. I did a performance of a little video 0:18:42.156 --> 0:18:45.436 of it. It's called build a House, and it's just, 0:18:45.596 --> 0:18:49.436 you know, kind of lamenting about the idea that you know, 0:18:49.476 --> 0:18:52.836 African Americans were like brought to the United States, built 0:18:53.116 --> 0:18:55.516 so much of the United States, and then continuously are 0:18:56.516 --> 0:18:58.876 just seems the thing that people just want us gone, 0:18:59.596 --> 0:19:02.556 you know, And it's just like, yeah, I don't know, 0:19:02.676 --> 0:19:07.676 It's just I was just really um despairing of everything. 0:19:07.716 --> 0:19:09.356 And I wrote this song and at the very and 0:19:09.556 --> 0:19:12.596 it says, you know, I will not be moved. You know, 0:19:12.676 --> 0:19:14.556 you brought me here to build your house. I built 0:19:14.596 --> 0:19:17.356 the house. I wrote my own house. You burned it down. 0:19:17.476 --> 0:19:19.476 I wrote my song, you took the song. But you 0:19:19.516 --> 0:19:22.676 know what my will, my will will never run dry, 0:19:22.716 --> 0:19:24.836 and I will not be moved. You know. It's a 0:19:24.836 --> 0:19:27.876 direct quote from not just I Shall not be moved, 0:19:27.916 --> 0:19:33.436 but from Joe. Was there something idiosyncratic or very particular 0:19:33.476 --> 0:19:37.636 about the way he and his family played this music, 0:19:37.956 --> 0:19:40.356 because it's you know, not all fiddlers are the same. 0:19:40.396 --> 0:19:42.556 Things can be very local. Are there things you learned 0:19:42.556 --> 0:19:45.636 from him that you just wouldn't have learned technically from 0:19:45.636 --> 0:19:48.716 other fiddlers? Yeah, when you know, all three of us 0:19:48.756 --> 0:19:51.236 were just learning all time music when we started playing 0:19:51.236 --> 0:19:54.196 with Joe. So everything that I learn, everything that I 0:19:54.596 --> 0:19:58.076 play now is inflected by playing with Joe and with 0:19:58.236 --> 0:20:01.556 kind of absorbing that, and it's very rhythmic, it's very 0:20:01.596 --> 0:20:04.476 I learned a Joe could do more with like six notes. 0:20:05.276 --> 0:20:07.916 You know a lot of people get do with twenty five. 0:20:08.036 --> 0:20:12.356 I mean, he just kind of an effortless being in 0:20:12.476 --> 0:20:15.556 the groove with the groove. You know, there's something about 0:20:15.596 --> 0:20:20.556 being a dance musician that you just cannot fake, you know, 0:20:20.636 --> 0:20:24.076 and we have you know, I played for dances, and 0:20:24.116 --> 0:20:26.356 so it does it does affect everything that I do, 0:20:26.436 --> 0:20:30.196 and the and also the way he sang. So when 0:20:30.196 --> 0:20:33.916 I'm singing, he had a beautiful voice and it just 0:20:33.996 --> 0:20:37.556 kind of came out of him in this way, and 0:20:38.836 --> 0:20:42.236 so that affects how I sing these kind of songs too. 0:20:43.116 --> 0:20:46.076 And then in this particular song, the way he I 0:20:46.116 --> 0:20:47.516 did it the way he does it, which you know, 0:20:47.596 --> 0:20:50.036 he he didn't put a space in between the end 0:20:50.036 --> 0:20:52.876 of one verse in the beginning of the next. So 0:20:52.916 --> 0:21:04.196 it's not like it's a shanaa shaa be moved ashaa 0:21:05.476 --> 0:21:15.876 shanna be moved like a true played. But I just 0:21:16.316 --> 0:21:24.156 do that m shall not be moved climbing Jacob right, 0:21:24.196 --> 0:21:28.836 So there's no space. It's not shall not be moved 0:21:31.476 --> 0:21:34.876 climbing Jacob. That's what you know, that's what we usually do, right, 0:21:34.916 --> 0:21:36.436 you have the ending and then the beginning of the 0:21:36.436 --> 0:21:38.876 next thing. But there's something about that, you know, I 0:21:40.356 --> 0:21:48.076 shall not be moved climbing Jacobs. Let us shall you know, 0:21:48.116 --> 0:21:51.876 there's something about that. You know. It's very simple. But 0:21:53.116 --> 0:21:56.876 the thing that you got from Joe was that it 0:21:56.996 --> 0:21:59.876 never ended. You know. It was just like this rolling 0:21:59.996 --> 0:22:01.756 river of sound and he would just kind of dip 0:22:01.756 --> 0:22:03.796 his foot in it and then take his foot out. 0:22:04.316 --> 0:22:06.556 Does that come out of playing for dances? That that 0:22:06.676 --> 0:22:09.676 idea that you just keep going it comes out of 0:22:09.716 --> 0:22:11.916 playing for dances? I think it comes out of just 0:22:12.116 --> 0:22:16.196 being saturated in that music. Him and other old timers, 0:22:16.236 --> 0:22:21.596 you know who they're they're gone, that life is over. 0:22:22.276 --> 0:22:26.636 He was born into a community and he died in 0:22:26.676 --> 0:22:29.836 that community, and he had a function in that community. 0:22:30.316 --> 0:22:32.156 There was no thought to it. It was just like 0:22:32.196 --> 0:22:34.876 my you know, daddy played fiddle, and then I played fiddle, 0:22:34.956 --> 0:22:36.676 and you know, I played with my brother and as 0:22:36.676 --> 0:22:38.676 soon as we rolled enough, we took over the dances. 0:22:39.236 --> 0:22:41.476 You know. He became a performer, but he was a 0:22:41.476 --> 0:22:45.196 function musician. He was a community musician, and it was 0:22:45.316 --> 0:22:48.756 music that he grew up doing. And that's a that's 0:22:48.756 --> 0:22:51.956 a special thing, and I would never pretend like that's 0:22:51.996 --> 0:22:54.836 what I do. Do you think that kind of world 0:22:54.916 --> 0:22:57.716 can exist, can coexist in the world as it is now? 0:22:58.076 --> 0:23:01.396 Not everybody's waiting for the dance on Friday night. It's 0:23:01.436 --> 0:23:04.396 not a necessary tradition the way it probably was for 0:23:04.516 --> 0:23:07.556 many people. Oh sure, I mean that was the entertainment. 0:23:07.596 --> 0:23:10.916