Speaker 1: School of Humans. I'm in Hickory Ridge, Arkansas, trying to
Speaker 1: investigate the case of nine year old Christina Pipkin, who
Speaker 1: went missing from her home on Doty Street in May
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety one. I'm with Amy Tubbs, whose father
Speaker 1: in law was a suspect in the case, Denise who's
Speaker 1: a friend of the families, who's been investigating this case
Speaker 1: for several years, and Denise's friend. We've been driving around
Speaker 1: town for a while now, and the whole town seems
Speaker 1: to be talking about this case. Hickory Ridge is pretty
Speaker 1: small right now. The population is between one and two
Speaker 1: hundred people. Needless to say, the entire town has been
Speaker 1: talking about the Christina Pipkin case. Our investigation has even
Speaker 1: made the local radio.
Speaker 2: Catherine Townsend, host of the Hell and Gone podcast, is
Speaker 2: investigating the nineteen ninety one kidnapping and murderer of nine
Speaker 2: year old Christina Pipkin and Hickory Ridge Pipkin with kidnapped
Speaker 2: and kill.
Speaker 1: Christina was selling jewelry door to door for a school
Speaker 1: fundraiser on May fourth, nineteen ninety one, when she disappeared
Speaker 1: without a trace. Three days later, Christina's body was found
Speaker 1: in Cow Lake ditch, a body of water about three
Speaker 1: point five miles from her home. Police suspected foul play,
Speaker 1: but they haven't commented on the manner of death, and
Speaker 1: when Amy and I got the case file from the
Speaker 1: Arkansas State Police after our foury requests were granted, the
Speaker 1: autopsy was not included. Over thirty years later, this case
Speaker 1: is still unsolved. There's very little hard evidence in this case.
Speaker 1: With a lot of witnesses dead or missing, it can
Speaker 1: sometimes feel like we're chasing ghosts. We'll pull up to
Speaker 1: buildings and find vacant lots, we knock on a lot
Speaker 1: of wrong doors, and we've run into a lot of
Speaker 1: dead ends, but we are making progress. In our last episode,
Speaker 1: we track down the last place where Christina Pipkin was
Speaker 1: seen alive, the bear Cat Grocery Store on the main
Speaker 1: drag of Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. It shares a parking lot
Speaker 1: with a Cross County bank. In a case where rumors
Speaker 1: have been flying for three decades, it's hard to separate
Speaker 1: fact from fiction, but we do have two things that
Speaker 1: we know for sure. One that Christina was last seen
Speaker 1: by multiple witnesses in the area of the Bearcat Convenience
Speaker 1: Store in the bank and two the location where her
Speaker 1: body was dumped. We need to go to that site.
Speaker 1: We need to go to col Lake Ditch, so we
Speaker 1: head out Route forty two toward Bedeville to the spot
Speaker 1: where Christina's body was found in the water. I'm Catherine Townsend.
Speaker 1: If you have a case you'd like me and my
Speaker 1: team to look into, you can reach out to us
Speaker 1: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight
Speaker 1: seven four four, six one four or five. This is
Speaker 1: Helen Gone Murder Line. In our last episode, we tracked
Speaker 1: down the cashier who worked at the Bearcat grocery store
Speaker 1: on May fourth, nineteen ninety one, the night when Christina
Speaker 1: Pipkin went missing. Police did talk to the other three
Speaker 1: employees who on the job that day, but according to
Speaker 1: the case file, either they didn't see the stranger or
Speaker 1: they were gone by the time he came in the store.
Speaker 1: Even though they don't think they saw anything, I'm really
Speaker 1: hoping they we'll get in touch with us, because, as
Speaker 1: we've said many times before, the interviews that the police
Speaker 1: did were very brief. One tiny detail can be the
Speaker 1: thing that makes this case change course. We're looking for
Speaker 1: all of those missing pieces. The cashier who we talked
Speaker 1: to gave us the composite drawing the ones she did
Speaker 1: with the Arkansas State Police. It's been in her safe
Speaker 1: for over thirty years. She described a brown car that
Speaker 1: the stranger who came in the Bearcat that day was driving.
Speaker 1: The image that we saw in the composite photo looked
Speaker 1: very similar to photos of Robbie Tubbs back in the day.
Speaker 1: But I want to be clear, his being there, even
Speaker 1: if it's confirmed have been him, does not mean that
Speaker 1: Robbie Tubbs did anything wrong. There were several other people
Speaker 1: in the Bearcat's store that night. Based on what we're seeing,
Speaker 1: it seems like half the town passed through there that day.
Speaker 1: We need more information. One of the other cashiers who's
Speaker 1: working at the bear Cat that night has called me back.
Speaker 1: This person did not want me to use her name,
Speaker 1: but she said she was working at the register between
Speaker 1: around six and seven pm on May fourth. She vividly
Speaker 1: remembers Christina Pipkin coming into the store that night, and
Speaker 1: I think that the information she has could be crucial.
Speaker 1: Here's what she said.
Speaker 3: I was at one of the registers, and I'm not
Speaker 3: sure if I was fagging for someone, if I was
Speaker 3: actually running the register at scene. I was running the
Speaker 3: register and Christina walked in, and nevertheless the carpet or
Speaker 3: the mat the stores have, but she just walked at
Speaker 3: the door and stood there and we said, hey, Christina,
Speaker 3: goes up. I do not remember any kind of paper
Speaker 3: or pencil in her hands. As I remember, it was odd.
Speaker 3: You know, normally kids just like are not scared of
Speaker 3: my something, and they would have talked. I feel like
Speaker 3: she would have been selling jewelry at that point. She
Speaker 3: would have asked us, But that's beside the point. At
Speaker 3: the time I saw her, I did not know she
Speaker 3: was selling jewelry. That was later, but she, you know,
Speaker 3: was hey, what's up? And she just kind of shrugged.
Speaker 3: And the reason I don't think anything was in her
Speaker 3: hands because I can remember the expression on her face
Speaker 3: so clearly, and she just kind of shrugged. And you
Speaker 3: know how little girls are those shrugs in her hands
Speaker 3: in the air, you know, just like she didn't have
Speaker 3: a look of fear. I can see her expression in
Speaker 3: my mind when I shut my eyes. It was a fear.
Speaker 3: It was more like, how no, why I stepped in?
Speaker 3: It was just I mean, she smiled and just turned
Speaker 3: around and walked out.
Speaker 1: I would still love to talk to anyone else, employees
Speaker 1: or people who were in the Bearcat store that night.
Speaker 1: So in the meantime, let's go forward in time to
Speaker 1: May seventh, the day when Christina's body was found in
Speaker 1: cal Lake Ditch.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's actually a good body dump place, but not a
Speaker 1: good swimming place, you know what I mean? Yeah, because
Speaker 1: they say it. One time it was they thought it
Speaker 1: was a swimming hold or something. Well, they said that.
Speaker 1: People have We've looked at this location a lot on
Speaker 1: Google Maps, but sometimes you have to go to the source.
Speaker 1: You have to go to the site. But yeah, if
Speaker 1: you look at that value on the map and two
Speaker 1: figure runs to yeah, and when those fields are blooded
Speaker 1: like it. Jane is Amy, Denise and I took a
Speaker 1: ride out to Calake Ditch. We were trying to figure
Speaker 1: out where Christina's body had been dumped and to see
Speaker 1: if the location could tell us anything about what happened
Speaker 1: to her. It's like down here, there's water down here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it has come up. As you can hear.
Speaker 1: Its windy and clear and cold. Right now. It's a
Speaker 1: sunny day. The ditch is low and the water is
Speaker 1: flowing pretty slowly, but we discussed the fact that if
Speaker 1: there had been rained recently, the current could get super strong,
Speaker 1: like it was on the day Christina's body was found. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the melon nowhere. Man, there's just I was.
Speaker 1: You know, when you hear about it, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe it's like a local swimming hall, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But this is l huh huh. As we
Speaker 1: said in the last episode, we did not get any
Speaker 1: access to the autopsy report as part of the case file,
Speaker 1: but we did get documents followed by Robbie Tubbs's defense lawyer,
Speaker 1: and in those documents he refers to forensic testing that
Speaker 1: was done on Christina's body. It showed that the water
Speaker 1: and mud in her lungs matched the water from cal
Speaker 1: Lake Ditch. We also got a few more details from
Speaker 1: the case file that came from the autopsy report. Doctor
Speaker 1: Fammi Malik, the metal examiner at the time, indicated that
Speaker 1: there was obvious decomposition. He believed that Christina had been
Speaker 1: in the water for about three days, meaning that she
Speaker 1: was not kidnapped and kept somewhere else. For example, she
Speaker 1: was almost certainly dumped there or fell in there on
Speaker 1: the day she went missing. Doctor Malick also said there
Speaker 1: were no signs of strangulation. He said he'd X rayed
Speaker 1: the body from outside and inside. He found no stab wounds,
Speaker 1: no obvious cuts or bruises. He also told investigators Christina's
Speaker 1: body had a blood alcohol level of point zero three percent,
Speaker 1: but he attributed that to the decomposition of the body.
Speaker 1: Blood alcohol level can rise as a side effect of
Speaker 1: the decomposition process. Other than that, the toxicology report. We're
Speaker 1: not quite sure what tests they performed in that talk screening,
Speaker 1: but according to what doctor Malick said in the case file,
Speaker 1: the results of those tests seemed normal. There was much
Speaker 1: found Christina's stomach. There were also pickles and carrots found.
Speaker 1: Investigators asked doctor Malick if he could figure out what
Speaker 1: had happened to Christina. Doctor Mallick quote was emphatic he
Speaker 1: could find no other cause of death other than drowning
Speaker 1: end quote. But when they asked him about the possibility,
Speaker 1: for example, that she could have been smothered or choked
Speaker 1: to the point of unconsciousness, doctor Malick said he didn't
Speaker 1: have enough information to know how to answer that for sure.
Speaker 1: The report reads quote when given the supposition that one
Speaker 1: could smother an individual to the point of unconscious and
Speaker 1: then throw that person into the river. Doctor Malleck could
Speaker 1: make no comment regarding this, but said that this was
Speaker 1: a possibility end quote. I know it's frustrating not to
Speaker 1: have access to the autopsy report, but again, we're like
Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes here, we're trying to rule out the impossible
Speaker 1: and see what possibilities were left with. So we have
Speaker 1: ruled out the possibility that Christina drowned somewhere else. Whatever
Speaker 1: happened to Christina Pipkin happened out here in this ditch.
Speaker 1: So what we know is this cause of death drowning,
Speaker 1: manner of death undetermined. Christina's body was found about a
Speaker 1: mile and a half west of the Jackson and Cross
Speaker 1: County lines on State Highway forty two. Okay, Amy, Denise
Speaker 1: and I pull up to the address we have for
Speaker 1: a man named mister White. Where are you all going?
Speaker 1: We're just gonna walk up to the tour and hopefully
Speaker 1: he was the person who was out with his son
Speaker 1: when they found Christina's body on May seventh. Yes, you
Speaker 1: didn't leave him a business card?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Because I think we need to kind of I feel
Speaker 1: like if they see it. Sometimes like it'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's intimidating to call. But if you if we're really
Speaker 1: could come up, we're just like two nights agirls that
Speaker 1: you're just yeah. If we don't make contact at all,
Speaker 1: I will even note like explaining what it is, but
Speaker 1: I just think it's better to in this case, better
Speaker 1: if he sees us. One thing that seemed weird to
Speaker 1: me was that if Christina was dumped out here, this
Speaker 1: is a very rural area, if someone drove her here,
Speaker 1: I wondered, wouldn't that car have been seen by someone,
Speaker 1: maybe a neighbor. And it turns out, according to the
Speaker 1: case file, there were people at cal Lake Ditch on
Speaker 1: the evening of May fourth, nineteen ninety one. A man
Speaker 1: named Morgan Davis and some of his friends, Ricky has
Speaker 1: and Ricky's wife were out frog gigging. Now, for those
Speaker 1: of you who aren't from Arkansas, and even those who are,
Speaker 1: I'm from South Arkansas and I had no idea what
Speaker 1: frog gigging is. A lot of people know that frog
Speaker 1: legs are a delicacy in places like France, but some
Speaker 1: people don't know they're also a popular menu item in Arkansas,
Speaker 1: so people go bullfrog hunting, which they call gigging. The
Speaker 1: best and indeed the only time to go frog gigging
Speaker 1: is really at night. On May fourth, Morgan Davis launched
Speaker 1: his boat at a around nine to fifteen to nine
Speaker 1: thirty pm off Calai Ditch. I asked my dad about
Speaker 1: frog gigging, and he told me how it worked. To
Speaker 1: hunt frogs, you shine a flashlight around the water, and
Speaker 1: the idea is that you can see the frog's eyes
Speaker 1: reflect back at you. My dad tells me, by the way,
Speaker 1: if you see eyes reflecting red back at you and
Speaker 1: not white, you should run because it's probably an alligator.
Speaker 1: You also have to avoid a lot of other pitfalls
Speaker 1: at night, like water moccasins and tree branches and other hazards.
Speaker 1: There are apparently two types of frog traps, the ones
Speaker 1: that simply entrap the frog in a net and the
Speaker 1: kind that kind of look like a trident. People use
Speaker 1: that to basically stab and scoop the bullfrogs into the boat. Morgan, Ricky,
Speaker 1: and Ricky's wife stayed out all night. They came in
Speaker 1: when dawn was breaking on the morning of May fifth.
Speaker 1: During that time, they said they never saw any stranger
Speaker 1: or any strange car. Everything seemed completely normal, and they
Speaker 1: were in that area where Christina's body was found. Also
Speaker 1: answered a question about the weather. A lot of people
Speaker 1: talked about how the area had been flooded and wondered
Speaker 1: if there had been rain the day Christina went missing.
Speaker 1: But he answered that question. He said, there was a
Speaker 1: big storm, but it happened on Sunday morning, the day
Speaker 1: after Christina went missing. On Saturday night, it was warm
Speaker 1: and dry. He said that the current was moving slowly.
Speaker 1: He said, quote, the current was not real strong at
Speaker 1: that time. I know that ditch and the current won't
Speaker 1: be real swift until the bio starts dropping. We got
Speaker 1: out of the ditch before the storm hit us that
Speaker 1: Sunday morning. I did not see any vehicles parked around
Speaker 1: the river bridge or ditch bridge at that time. End quote.
Speaker 1: None of them saw Christina Pipkin that night. None of
Speaker 1: them saw a strange car, and none of them heard
Speaker 1: any struggle or any screams for help. So the fact
Speaker 1: that Ricky and his boat, his party did not see
Speaker 1: anyone that night kind of makes me lean toward one
Speaker 1: of two possibilities. Either Christina was dumped some somewhere else,
Speaker 1: loaded down to where they were and got stuck in
Speaker 1: that tree branch or. She was dumped much earlier, perhaps
Speaker 1: before nine pm, before dark when they launched their boat.
Speaker 1: So now we need to go back again. What can
Speaker 1: we learn from the case fall about who was where
Speaker 1: at that time in Hickory Ridge between around six thirty
Speaker 1: and nine pm that night. We're looking for any inconsistencies
Speaker 1: in their stories that we can find, or anyone we
Speaker 1: can talk to who could help filling these gaps. We
Speaker 1: talked about Charles Cotton in our last episode. He was
Speaker 1: one of many people of interest at the time who
Speaker 1: were interviewed by law enforcement. He was interviewed by investigator
Speaker 1: Steve Doser on May fifth, the day after Christina went missing.
Speaker 1: At the time, Charles told detectives he spent May fourth
Speaker 1: fishing at Burdeye at a place called the Bay Ditch
Speaker 1: near Cherry Valley between one thirty and five thirty pm.
Speaker 1: He said he was out there with a guy he
Speaker 1: knew named Edward Hoague. He told police that Edward Hoague
Speaker 1: had a criminal record of some kind. Charles said he
Speaker 1: believed Edward was, as he put it, wanted either in
Speaker 1: when or for a city at some point, presumably after
Speaker 1: they finished fishing, at around five thirty. Charles said that
Speaker 1: he remembered heading home, but he told police a friend
Speaker 1: of his had reminded him that he saw Charles that
Speaker 1: day at the Bearcat store, which would have put him
Speaker 1: at the convenience store at around the same time Christina
Speaker 1: was there, around five thirty to six pm. Charles's wife,
Speaker 1: Rebecca confirmed investigators that yes, she and Charles were in
Speaker 1: the grocery store that afternoon. Charles said that later that evening,
Speaker 1: presumably after they left the store, he and his family,
Speaker 1: including his twenty one year old wife Rebecca, who was
Speaker 1: pregnant at the time, were home watching TV. Then, he said,
Speaker 1: at around ten thirty or eleven, his friend Nea Long
Speaker 1: came over and told him Christina Pipkin was missing.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: At that point, he said, he borrowed a three wheel
Speaker 1: from another friend of his, and he and Rebecca volunteered
Speaker 1: to help with the search. Again, I just want to
Speaker 1: flag a couple of things up in Charles Cotton's statement,
Speaker 1: because it seemed like he was very invested in the search. Again,
Speaker 1: this could be completely innocuous. It could be because it
Speaker 1: was the biggest thing to happen around Hickory Ridge in
Speaker 1: a long time. He was trying to be a good
Speaker 1: neighbor whatever, But it does raise a couple of red
Speaker 1: flags for me. Because the Pipkins had only lived in
Speaker 1: Hickory Ridge for four months, how well could Charles Cotton
Speaker 1: know these people. Later, Charles Cotton told police that Pat Moore,
Speaker 1: who remember was the Pipkins neighbor who introduced James Pipkin
Speaker 1: to Charles, told Charles that another guy had been dreaming
Speaker 1: about a place on Highway forty two West. So Charles
Speaker 1: told police that he and a couple of his friends
Speaker 1: went out there to take a look at this place
Speaker 1: that this guy had seen in a dream. He said
Speaker 1: it was a shed and it was near a baby cemetery.
Speaker 1: He said they saw what looked like drag marks on
Speaker 1: the dirt inside the shed. Supposedly Charles called the police,
Speaker 1: but he said law enforcement never came out to look
Speaker 1: in that shed. Around this time, there were all kinds
Speaker 1: of rumors flying around about what could have happened to
Speaker 1: Christina Pipkin. This was before her body was found. There
Speaker 1: were psychics calling the police. Police were inundated with people
Speaker 1: trying to talk to them, and police were out conducting
Speaker 1: tons of interviews, So this was a time when lots
Speaker 1: of rumors were flying around. It's very strange that Charles
Speaker 1: would say he was going out to a location because
Speaker 1: of something someone saw in a dream. Maybe it's because
Speaker 1: he again was just trying to follow any lead, or
Speaker 1: maybe it's because someone was trying to misdirect this investigation.
Speaker 1: Investigators questioned Charles again about the money that Charles had
Speaker 1: borrowed from James Pipkin. Remember, he borrowed two hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty five dollars from James Pipkin because he said he
Speaker 1: hadn't been able to pay some fines related to bad
Speaker 1: checks because he had been so busy searching for Christina.
Speaker 1: Just another weird story in this case. In the case file,
Speaker 1: it said that Charles admitted he had borrowed the two
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five dollars from James Pipkin. He produced
Speaker 1: a receipt that showed Charles did make a payment on
Speaker 1: bad checks to the police department. But the thing about
Speaker 1: that receipt was that the receipt was dated May tenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, and the interview was done on May fifth,
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure what happened here. Did Charles produce
Speaker 1: that receipt a few days later and the officer just
Speaker 1: did not note that in his report, or was the
Speaker 1: receipt post dated to May tenth? I don't know. But again,
Speaker 1: this is just one of those confusing disrepancies in the
Speaker 1: police report that I have no answers to. There was
Speaker 1: another woman who said she saw something strange the night
Speaker 1: Christina went missing. She said she saw something odd happen
Speaker 1: with Charles's wife, Rebecca Cotton. This woman's name is Donna King.
Speaker 1: There's just one problem with this police report. I talked
Speaker 1: to Donna King and she said she never told police
Speaker 1: the story that they noted in this report. I've also
Speaker 1: talked to Donna's friend, the friend who was with her
Speaker 1: on the night Christina Pipkin went missing, and Donna's friend
Speaker 1: confirmed her story now again according to the case file.
Speaker 1: According to this report from nineteen ninety one, Donna told
Speaker 1: investigators that she and her husband had gone to Memphis
Speaker 1: from Hickory Ridge on the day when Christina went missing.
Speaker 1: Donna said in the report that they were on their
Speaker 1: way back into town at around nine thirty pm that
Speaker 1: night when she saw a woman quote walking the street
Speaker 1: between the Bearcat and that post office end quote. Donna
Speaker 1: told me that part of the report was correct because
Speaker 1: she was in Memphis that day and she was driving
Speaker 1: back to Hickory Ridge with her husband. But she said
Speaker 1: that after she got back to town, she met up with
Speaker 1: this friend of hers. She said they went riding around
Speaker 1: to help look for Christina. At nine thirty pm, Donna
Speaker 1: was with her friend and she said they did not
Speaker 1: see any woman walking along the side of the road.
Speaker 1: In the police statement from nineteen ninety one, the police
Speaker 1: said that Donna had recognized the woman she saw on
Speaker 1: the side of the road as Rebecca Cotton, Charles Cotton's wife.
Speaker 1: In the report, police quote Donna as saying she seemed
Speaker 1: very sure that this was Rebecca, and that Rebecca seemed
Speaker 1: upset and was crying. Then police said Donna told them
Speaker 1: that she saw Charles Cotton drive up to Rebecca on
Speaker 1: a three wheeler, Rebecca refused to get on the three wheeler,
Speaker 1: and then Charles Cotton come back and pick her up
Speaker 1: in a car. This was a very detailed story, and
Speaker 1: the whole thing supposedly took place several minutes before the
Speaker 1: search party started to look for Christina, but Donna told
Speaker 1: me none of that ever happened. In fact, she said
Speaker 1: she didn't know Rebecca Cotton at all by sight. Now,
Speaker 1: remember Charles said he didn't go out on that three
Speaker 1: wheel er until after ten thirty, so that would be
Speaker 1: after the search started. Also, Rebecca told police that it
Speaker 1: was not her out walking on that road. She said
Speaker 1: she had never been upset that night. She was home
Speaker 1: watching TV with her family. Rebecca Cotton did tell police
Speaker 1: that she had a pregnant sister at the time who
Speaker 1: kind of looked like her. She suggested it could have
Speaker 1: been her sister who was out there, but police apparently
Speaker 1: never talked to Rebecca Cotton's sister, or if they did,
Speaker 1: it's not part of the case file. I thought this
Speaker 1: was just another inconsistency that was never resolved. But when
Speaker 1: I talked to Donna King, she was adamant she never
Speaker 1: said this. She never said she saw Rebecca Cotton. She
Speaker 1: believes that police may have mixed their notes up or
Speaker 1: confused her with someone else. Donna also said there was
Speaker 1: another statement that she did give police, and she said
Speaker 1: it was very detailed about a brown car she saw.
Speaker 1: It does not appear to be anywhere in the case file,
Speaker 1: and we will have details of what she says about
Speaker 1: that in next week's episode. For now, though I don't
Speaker 1: know what to think, this actually really shocks me. I've
Speaker 1: seen cases where police reports had details wrong, and I've
Speaker 1: seen instances where people didn't remember a lot of what
Speaker 1: they said thirty years ago. But this seems like police
Speaker 1: may have actually mixed people up or combined their stories,
Speaker 1: which I didn't even really know was possible. And it
Speaker 1: also begs the question if Donna King didn't tell police
Speaker 1: about seeing Rebecca Cotton on the side of the road,
Speaker 1: who did and is that person still out there? Okay,
Speaker 1: let's go back to May fourth, nineteen ninety one. Michael Long,
Speaker 1: the next door neighbor, saw Christina at the Bearcat store
Speaker 1: at around five thirty. Christina's math teacher saw a few
Speaker 1: minutes later, just after six pm. The cashier we talked
Speaker 1: to from the Bearcats store also saw Christina around the
Speaker 1: store that day at around five point thirty. She showed
Speaker 1: us the composite drawing that looked very similar to Robbie Tubbs,
Speaker 1: and she described a car that was brown at the time.
Speaker 1: Robbie Tubbs drove a nineteen eighty one brown cream colored
Speaker 1: four wheel drive AMC Eagle sedan. But then a lot
Speaker 1: of other people mentioned blue cars, and I'm trying to
Speaker 1: figure out who the first person was who mentioned this
Speaker 1: suspicious blue car. Was the blue car actually something that
Speaker 1: was seen with Christina or did it just become part
Speaker 1: of everyone's collective imagination. Over the next few days, one
Speaker 1: person who police wanted to talk to was Janetta, Robbie
Speaker 1: Tubbs's girlfriend. Remember, Robbie had a bit of an unconventional
Speaker 1: private life at the time. He was married to his wife, Sandra,
Speaker 1: but he had a girlfriend, Janetta. Investigators talked to Janetta
Speaker 1: and she gave more details about who Robbie was hanging
Speaker 1: out with at the time. Janetta stated that at the
Speaker 1: time when Christina went missing, she lived in Amagon, a
Speaker 1: nearby town, with her brother named Larry Gill. She mentioned Linda,
Speaker 1: the friend of rob that he sold his car to later,
Speaker 1: and she said that Robbie had another friend named Jackie.
Speaker 1: She didn't know Jackie's last name, but she said they
Speaker 1: would often go shelling together. I write in my notebook
Speaker 1: Jackie question mark, because we need to figure out who
Speaker 1: this mysterious friend is as we said in the last episode,
Speaker 1: Robbie claimed that Janetta and one of her children and
Speaker 1: a young woman who he believed could be Christina had
Speaker 1: all sat in his car at a nearby park. But
Speaker 1: Janetta refuted Robbi's alibi. She said she never went to
Speaker 1: the nearby park with Robbie Tubbs, her son, was never
Speaker 1: in the car with Robbie, and she had ridden in
Speaker 1: Robbie's car before, but never driven it. There are a
Speaker 1: couple of other sightings of Christina Pipkin that happened later
Speaker 1: after seven pm, but they're not confirmed. There was a
Speaker 1: boy his name is redacted, but he was a student
Speaker 1: at Hickory Ridge Elementary School. He was someone who went
Speaker 1: to school with Christina. He told police that on Saturday night,
Speaker 1: at around seven thirty or eight pm, he saw three
Speaker 1: parked cars at Burl's gas station in wien Or, Arkansas.
Speaker 1: He said he saw a girl standing by a blue car.
Speaker 1: He thought it was Christina. He couldn't remember what the
Speaker 1: little girl was wearing or really any other information, according
Speaker 1: to the case file. I find this very frustrating because,
Speaker 1: again I'm not trying to criticize what investigators were doing.
Speaker 1: I know it's a small police force, but there is
Speaker 1: a part of me that wants to jump back in
Speaker 1: time and ask more questions. I feel like if the
Speaker 1: investigator had spent a little more time talking to this kid,
Speaker 1: maybe he might have been able to get more information
Speaker 1: out of him, at least enough to look into it
Speaker 1: further to figure out who this girl might be. If
Speaker 1: it wasn't Christina, we could rule it out and get
Speaker 1: a more accurate timeline. Other than Christina's friend who said
Speaker 1: she saw Christina talking to someone in a blue car,
Speaker 1: which may have happened after seven pm, the last person
Speaker 1: who was sure about what time she saw Christina Pipkin
Speaker 1: was her math teacher, Sally Lamb. Miss Lamb said she
Speaker 1: was at the bear Cat between six thirty and six
Speaker 1: thirty five pm. She said Christina stopped her on the
Speaker 1: sidewalk and asked what they were going to be doing
Speaker 1: in school that Monday. Miss Lamb said, why our math
Speaker 1: of course. Then she saw Christina was carrying her jewelry
Speaker 1: order catalog. She said Christina was barefoot, which, honestly, which
Speaker 1: as we said last time, could explain why Christina's sandals
Speaker 1: were never found. Miss Lamb remembered that she said because
Speaker 1: she was thinking Christina wasn't really dressed appropriately for selling jewelry,
Speaker 1: and she didn't think she was going to make a
Speaker 1: lot of sales that day. Miss Lamb saw Christina talking
Speaker 1: to Don Payne on Second Street. She saw Don drive away,
Speaker 1: and she saw Christina continuing to walk south on Second Street.
Speaker 1: We tried to track down Don Payne, unfortunately he's passed away.
Speaker 1: Since we now have access to Robbie's wife, Sandra's statement
Speaker 1: as part of the case file, I want to take
Speaker 1: a closer look at that. Remember, Sandra Tubbs was murdered
Speaker 1: two years after Christina died, so we can't go back
Speaker 1: and talk to her. But her interview is one of
Speaker 1: the only ones in the entire case file that's actually
Speaker 1: transcribed pretty much word for word. So even though this
Speaker 1: evidence is circumstantial, I think it's really important to analyze it.
Speaker 1: Some of what Sandra told police is seriously disturbing. In
Speaker 1: October of nineteen ninety one, Sandra Tubbs told police that
Speaker 1: around the time when Christina went missing, Robbie Tubbs had
Speaker 1: made some disturbing statements. She said she'd been too afraid
Speaker 1: to come to them. In the past, and that's why
Speaker 1: she had waited several months. Sandra said, quote, my husband,
Speaker 1: Robbie Tubbs, he came home and was talking about what
Speaker 1: it would be like to drown because, you know, me
Speaker 1: being under that water all the time. He says, it
Speaker 1: makes me wonder what it's like for somebody to drown,
Speaker 1: you know, whether they struggle or what's their last thought
Speaker 1: and stuff when somebody is drowning. End quote. Sandra said
Speaker 1: that later, after Christina went missing, Robbie made another comment,
Speaker 1: this time when a news story came on about Christina.
Speaker 1: Sandra said, Robbie told her, quote, they'll never find her.
Speaker 1: There's too many rice stitches and stuff around here for
Speaker 1: somebody to drown in. She's dead. End quote. At that point,
Speaker 1: Sandra said she got a very bad gut feeling that
Speaker 1: something was very wrong. Robbie, like everyone else, had theories
Speaker 1: about the case. He told Sandra that police had already
Speaker 1: figured out someone in Christina's family had committed this crime,
Speaker 1: that they had found some jewelry she was wearing. At
Speaker 1: one point, he had another theory. He told Sandra he
Speaker 1: believed the Bruce Boys did it. As a side note,
Speaker 1: this was when Sandra found out that her husband knew
Speaker 1: the killer siblings, known as the Bruce Brothers. The Bruce
Speaker 1: brothers were brutal killers and arsonists. They're notorious in their
Speaker 1: hometown of Camden, Tennessee. Like Robbie Tubbs, the Bruce brothers
Speaker 1: were musselshellers. Apparently they hung out with Robbie Tubbs. At
Speaker 1: the time when Robbie knew them, the Bruce brothers had
Speaker 1: already committed multiple murders. On January sixteenth, nineteen ninety one, Gary,
Speaker 1: Robert and Jerry Bruce set fire to the home of
Speaker 1: Danny Vine, a musselsheller they knew who kept a lot
Speaker 1: of cash in his property. His girlfriend, Della Thornton, also
Speaker 1: lived there. Both Danny and Della were shot execution style
Speaker 1: with a thirty eight caliber gun. The killers stole their money,
Speaker 1: which police estimated and around thirty thousand dollars. This case
Speaker 1: was really notorious and reminded me of some of the
Speaker 1: cases I've seen in Arkansas because police talked to the
Speaker 1: boys and they also talked to their mother, Kathleen Bruce,
Speaker 1: and their mother not only protected her sons, but a
Speaker 1: lot of people believe was involved in these murders. All
Speaker 1: of the Bruce boys, Gary, Robert Jerry, and their brother
Speaker 1: j C had violent criminal records. Jay C was actually
Speaker 1: convicted of raping and strangling a fifteen year old girl
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy five, but inexplicably he got pardoned by
Speaker 1: the governor of Tennessee at the time. Later, a former
Speaker 1: girlfriend of jay C's went to the police. She wanted
Speaker 1: to tell them what she knew, but she was terrified
Speaker 1: and she wanted protection. Eventually, though, the girlfriend disappeared and
Speaker 1: she has never been seen since. All the boys provided
Speaker 1: alibis for each other. They all covered up each other's crimes.
Speaker 1: In the end, Robert, Jerry, Lee, and Gary were all
Speaker 1: arrested and convicted. They got life sentences, and their mom,
Speaker 1: Kathleen Bruce, got eight years in prison for her role
Speaker 1: in covering up the crimes. Sheila Bradford, j C's former girlfriend,
Speaker 1: who tried to help the police, is still gone and
Speaker 1: her disappearance remains unsolved.
Speaker 3: J C.
Speaker 1: Bruce was never charged with the murders or with the
Speaker 1: disappearance of his former girlfriend. The stuff that Robbie told
Speaker 1: Sandra was odd because to my knowledge, no one else
Speaker 1: has ever mentioned the Bruce brothers in connection with this case.
Speaker 1: There's also no indication they were in Arkansas at that time.
Speaker 1: We're following that lead, but to me, it looks like
Speaker 1: Robbie kind of like the way he mentioned Christina's family
Speaker 1: and the jelry being found, either was misinformed or just
Speaker 1: making an innocent comment about what he thought, or possibly
Speaker 1: was trying to misdirect the investigation. I keep going back
Speaker 1: to another name, Robbie's friend Jackie Jackie question Mark, because
Speaker 1: Sandra mentioned him too as someone who Robbie went shelling with.
Speaker 1: Sandra said, whenever Robbie shelled in that area, he went
Speaker 1: with Jackie. They always stopped in Hickory Ridge so he
Speaker 1: could let Jackie out near Waldenburg, a nearby town. The
Speaker 1: cashiers said that the man who came into the store
Speaker 1: the night Christina Pipkin went missing was alone, But what
Speaker 1: if Jackie was dropped off earlier? Could Jackie have been
Speaker 1: around that night somewhere? And this quote from Sandra really
Speaker 1: stays with me. She said, he, meaning Robbie, told me
Speaker 1: he wasn't the only one that liked the little girls,
Speaker 1: that Jackie liked the little girls too. She goes on
Speaker 1: to talk of more and more about Robbie Tubb's disturbing
Speaker 1: history of picking up young girls. She talked about an
Speaker 1: incident where she saw an eleven year old girl sit
Speaker 1: on Robbie's lap then run crying from the room, super upset.
Speaker 1: She said when she asked Robbie about it, he said, oh,
Speaker 1: she got picked on by some girls at school. He
Speaker 1: said he was just trying to make her feel better.
Speaker 1: But Sandra said that little girl was always hugging Robbie
Speaker 1: and sitting in his lap. She said it made her
Speaker 1: feel very uncomfortable. She thought something was going on. Sandra
Speaker 1: said these incidents happened starting in nineteen eighty one, and
Speaker 1: that they took place in Lagrange, Texas, and later in
Speaker 1: Sulfur Springs. Later, Sandra said, quote, there was this little
Speaker 1: girl teasing him and showing him her body. He would
Speaker 1: talk about it like it was some big joke or something,
Speaker 1: and then I went and told her daddy, and nothing
Speaker 1: ever happened about it because her daddy didn't believe it.
Speaker 1: End quote. These admissions are so disturbing to me, by
Speaker 1: the way, I want to add. Robbie Tubbs and his
Speaker 1: statement to police completely denied all of this. He said
Speaker 1: he'd never been attracted to young teenagers. He denied all
Speaker 1: of that, but it really is shocking to me for
Speaker 1: a number of reasons. One, these girls were potentially being
Speaker 1: abused and no one was doing anything to help them.
Speaker 1: And two the sheer number of potentially sexual abusive people
Speaker 1: who were around at the time, and the potential number
Speaker 1: of victims who could still be out there. Then Sandra
Speaker 1: talked about what happened in nineteen eighty three. This was
Speaker 1: the incident she talked about in depth of police She
Speaker 1: said Robbie picked up a young woman who she described
Speaker 1: as twelve or thirteen years old and her boyfriend and
Speaker 1: offered them a lift to Hot Springs. Sandra said at
Speaker 1: some point during this ride she got upset, and she said,
Speaker 1: even though she was seven months pregnant, Robbie kicked her
Speaker 1: out of the car and left with these two young teens. Then,
Speaker 1: she said, a few days later she showed up again.
Speaker 1: She went out to where they dropped the kids off
Speaker 1: what Robbie and the young woman were gone, and the
Speaker 1: young boy apparently told Sandra that at some point they
Speaker 1: went to a park and went to sleep. When he
Speaker 1: woke up, he said he saw Robbie and that young
Speaker 1: girl doing something sexual and after that, he said, Robbie
Speaker 1: kicked him out of the car and made him walk.
Speaker 1: After that, Sandra said, she got back together with Robbie,
Speaker 1: which I really try not to judge of victims because
Speaker 1: I never know what anyone has been through and what
Speaker 1: their history is. But I do find it shocking. I
Speaker 1: can't help it. She said. Quote. I said, Robbie, don't
Speaker 1: you know you could get in bad trouble for that.
Speaker 1: You could go to prison for them, And he said,
Speaker 1: who the hell cares? The only one who could do
Speaker 1: anything about it was her mama. He said, her mama
Speaker 1: didn't care that she gave us a blanket end quote.
Speaker 1: Sandra said that Robbie became physically abusive and violent and
Speaker 1: had beaten her when she mentioned what he had said
Speaker 1: about Christina Pipkin. She said, after she threatened to tell
Speaker 1: police what she knew, he told her that she was crazy.
Speaker 1: He quote told me that I was crazy and they
Speaker 1: would never believe me, and it really made him mad,
Speaker 1: and he gagged me and choked me. This is all
Speaker 1: very disturbing, both the violence and the fact that, according
Speaker 1: to Sandra in her police statement, Robbie had a history
Speaker 1: of asking very young girls to ride with him in
Speaker 1: his vehicle, and then she claims sexually assaulting them or
Speaker 1: propositioning them. Robbie said that yes, he was driving a
Speaker 1: brown AMC Eagle at the time, but he said his
Speaker 1: car had torn up in the fall of nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: We know, though, that he didn't get rid of that
Speaker 1: car until the spring of nineteen ninety one. By the way,
Speaker 1: in his police statement, Robbie admitted, yes, he had had
Speaker 1: sex with a girl on the way to Hot Springs
Speaker 1: in the incident Sandra described, but he said the girl
Speaker 1: told him she was eighteen. It turned out he said
Speaker 1: she was only fourteen or fifteen years old at the time.
Speaker 1: Another odd thing about this case file. There are polygraph
Speaker 1: examinations of several people, all of whom passed their polygraphs,
Speaker 1: but there is not a polygraph of Robbie Tubbs. It
Speaker 1: would appear that he failed based on what investigators said,
Speaker 1: but we have no idea what happened to that polygraph.
Speaker 1: I wonder why it's not part of the case file.
Speaker 1: The man who discovered Christina's body with his young son
Speaker 1: told us something else that the sheriff believed Christina had
Speaker 1: been dumped further upstream and then floated down toward where
Speaker 1: she was eventually found. The sheriff at the time told
Speaker 1: this man that if Christina didn't get hung up on
Speaker 1: one of those branches, she would have floated out to
Speaker 1: the bayou and eventually to the Saint Francis River. Like
Speaker 1: we said earlier, it seems to go on forever. I
Speaker 1: haven't been able to make contact with the sheriff at
Speaker 1: the time, Sheriff Huey, though I have found out where
Speaker 1: he drinks coffee most mornings, so that's a start. But
Speaker 1: if this theory about Christina being dumped further upstream is right,
Speaker 1: that would explain While Morgan Davis and his friends didn't
Speaker 1: see any sign of her or of any other stranger
Speaker 1: that night, they also didn't hear anyone screaming for help.
Speaker 1: It is possible if this was some kind of accident,
Speaker 1: maybe Christina fell in and drowned quickly. We know she
Speaker 1: couldn't swim, and drownings can happen fast. But I believe
Speaker 1: the evidence points to Christina being driven out to that ditch.
Speaker 1: I agree with the police here. I believe that it's
Speaker 1: very possible that she was thrown in that water while
Speaker 1: she was either unconscious or dying. If that happened, it
Speaker 1: was dark that night, So I'm asking myself, is it
Speaker 1: possible that Christina could have floated right past them in
Speaker 1: their boat? And I'm thinking about something else the sheriff
Speaker 1: said when he said, if she didn't get caught, if
Speaker 1: she wasn't entangled on that branch, she would have floated
Speaker 1: right out to the river with no one knowing about it.
Speaker 1: The next question that naturally follows is are there more
Speaker 1: bodies of missing children that floated out to the river
Speaker 1: and were never found. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen
Speaker 1: Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production
Speaker 1: of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and
Speaker 1: narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts.
Speaker 1: Music contributed by Ben Solee, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott,
Speaker 1: Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If you have a case
Speaker 1: you'd like me and my team to look into, you
Speaker 1: can reach out to us at our Health and Gone
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