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Speaker 1: School of Humans. I'm in Hickory Ridge, Arkansas, trying to

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Speaker 1: investigate the case of nine year old Christina Pipkin, who

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Speaker 1: went missing from her home on Doty Street in May

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Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety one. I'm with Amy Tubbs, whose father

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Speaker 1: in law was a suspect in the case, Denise who's

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Speaker 1: a friend of the families, who's been investigating this case

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Speaker 1: for several years, and Denise's friend. We've been driving around

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Speaker 1: town for a while now, and the whole town seems

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Speaker 1: to be talking about this case. Hickory Ridge is pretty

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Speaker 1: small right now. The population is between one and two

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Speaker 1: hundred people. Needless to say, the entire town has been

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Speaker 1: talking about the Christina Pipkin case. Our investigation has even

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Speaker 1: made the local radio.

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Speaker 2: Catherine Townsend, host of the Hell and Gone podcast, is

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Speaker 2: investigating the nineteen ninety one kidnapping and murderer of nine

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Speaker 2: year old Christina Pipkin and Hickory Ridge Pipkin with kidnapped

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Speaker 2: and kill.

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Speaker 1: Christina was selling jewelry door to door for a school

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Speaker 1: fundraiser on May fourth, nineteen ninety one, when she disappeared

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Speaker 1: without a trace. Three days later, Christina's body was found

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Speaker 1: in Cow Lake ditch, a body of water about three

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Speaker 1: point five miles from her home. Police suspected foul play,

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Speaker 1: but they haven't commented on the manner of death, and

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Speaker 1: when Amy and I got the case file from the

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Speaker 1: Arkansas State Police after our foury requests were granted, the

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Speaker 1: autopsy was not included. Over thirty years later, this case

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Speaker 1: is still unsolved. There's very little hard evidence in this case.

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Speaker 1: With a lot of witnesses dead or missing, it can

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Speaker 1: sometimes feel like we're chasing ghosts. We'll pull up to

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Speaker 1: buildings and find vacant lots, we knock on a lot

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Speaker 1: of wrong doors, and we've run into a lot of

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Speaker 1: dead ends, but we are making progress. In our last episode,

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Speaker 1: we track down the last place where Christina Pipkin was

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Speaker 1: seen alive, the bear Cat Grocery Store on the main

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Speaker 1: drag of Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. It shares a parking lot

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Speaker 1: with a Cross County bank. In a case where rumors

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Speaker 1: have been flying for three decades, it's hard to separate

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Speaker 1: fact from fiction, but we do have two things that

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Speaker 1: we know for sure. One that Christina was last seen

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Speaker 1: by multiple witnesses in the area of the Bearcat Convenience

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Speaker 1: Store in the bank and two the location where her

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Speaker 1: body was dumped. We need to go to that site.

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Speaker 1: We need to go to col Lake Ditch, so we

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Speaker 1: head out Route forty two toward Bedeville to the spot

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Speaker 1: where Christina's body was found in the water. I'm Catherine Townsend.

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Speaker 1: If you have a case you'd like me and my

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Speaker 1: team to look into, you can reach out to us

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Speaker 1: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight

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Speaker 1: seven four four, six one four or five. This is

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Speaker 1: Helen Gone Murder Line. In our last episode, we tracked

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Speaker 1: down the cashier who worked at the Bearcat grocery store

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Speaker 1: on May fourth, nineteen ninety one, the night when Christina

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Speaker 1: Pipkin went missing. Police did talk to the other three

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Speaker 1: employees who on the job that day, but according to

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Speaker 1: the case file, either they didn't see the stranger or

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Speaker 1: they were gone by the time he came in the store.

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Speaker 1: Even though they don't think they saw anything, I'm really

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Speaker 1: hoping they we'll get in touch with us, because, as

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Speaker 1: we've said many times before, the interviews that the police

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Speaker 1: did were very brief. One tiny detail can be the

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Speaker 1: thing that makes this case change course. We're looking for

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Speaker 1: all of those missing pieces. The cashier who we talked

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Speaker 1: to gave us the composite drawing the ones she did

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Speaker 1: with the Arkansas State Police. It's been in her safe

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Speaker 1: for over thirty years. She described a brown car that

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Speaker 1: the stranger who came in the Bearcat that day was driving.

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Speaker 1: The image that we saw in the composite photo looked

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Speaker 1: very similar to photos of Robbie Tubbs back in the day.

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Speaker 1: But I want to be clear, his being there, even

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Speaker 1: if it's confirmed have been him, does not mean that

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Speaker 1: Robbie Tubbs did anything wrong. There were several other people

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Speaker 1: in the Bearcat's store that night. Based on what we're seeing,

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Speaker 1: it seems like half the town passed through there that day.

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Speaker 1: We need more information. One of the other cashiers who's

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Speaker 1: working at the bear Cat that night has called me back.

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Speaker 1: This person did not want me to use her name,

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Speaker 1: but she said she was working at the register between

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Speaker 1: around six and seven pm on May fourth. She vividly

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Speaker 1: remembers Christina Pipkin coming into the store that night, and

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Speaker 1: I think that the information she has could be crucial.

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Speaker 1: Here's what she said.

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Speaker 3: I was at one of the registers, and I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure if I was fagging for someone, if I was

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Speaker 3: actually running the register at scene. I was running the

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Speaker 3: register and Christina walked in, and nevertheless the carpet or

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Speaker 3: the mat the stores have, but she just walked at

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Speaker 3: the door and stood there and we said, hey, Christina,

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Speaker 3: goes up. I do not remember any kind of paper

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Speaker 3: or pencil in her hands. As I remember, it was odd.

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Speaker 3: You know, normally kids just like are not scared of

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Speaker 3: my something, and they would have talked. I feel like

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Speaker 3: she would have been selling jewelry at that point. She

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Speaker 3: would have asked us, But that's beside the point. At

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Speaker 3: the time I saw her, I did not know she

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Speaker 3: was selling jewelry. That was later, but she, you know,

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Speaker 3: was hey, what's up? And she just kind of shrugged.

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Speaker 3: And the reason I don't think anything was in her

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Speaker 3: hands because I can remember the expression on her face

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Speaker 3: so clearly, and she just kind of shrugged. And you

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Speaker 3: know how little girls are those shrugs in her hands

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Speaker 3: in the air, you know, just like she didn't have

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Speaker 3: a look of fear. I can see her expression in

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Speaker 3: my mind when I shut my eyes. It was a fear.

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Speaker 3: It was more like, how no, why I stepped in?

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Speaker 3: It was just I mean, she smiled and just turned

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Speaker 3: around and walked out.

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Speaker 1: I would still love to talk to anyone else, employees

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Speaker 1: or people who were in the Bearcat store that night.

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Speaker 1: So in the meantime, let's go forward in time to

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Speaker 1: May seventh, the day when Christina's body was found in

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Speaker 1: cal Lake Ditch.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's actually a good body dump place, but not a

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Speaker 1: good swimming place, you know what I mean? Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: they say it. One time it was they thought it

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Speaker 1: was a swimming hold or something. Well, they said that.

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Speaker 1: People have We've looked at this location a lot on

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Speaker 1: Google Maps, but sometimes you have to go to the source.

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Speaker 1: You have to go to the site. But yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you look at that value on the map and two

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Speaker 1: figure runs to yeah, and when those fields are blooded

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Speaker 1: like it. Jane is Amy, Denise and I took a

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Speaker 1: ride out to Calake Ditch. We were trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out where Christina's body had been dumped and to see

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Speaker 1: if the location could tell us anything about what happened

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Speaker 1: to her. It's like down here, there's water down here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it has come up. As you can hear.

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Speaker 1: Its windy and clear and cold. Right now. It's a

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Speaker 1: sunny day. The ditch is low and the water is

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Speaker 1: flowing pretty slowly, but we discussed the fact that if

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Speaker 1: there had been rained recently, the current could get super strong,

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Speaker 1: like it was on the day Christina's body was found. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is the melon nowhere. Man, there's just I was.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you hear about it, you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's like a local swimming hall, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. But this is l huh huh. As we

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Speaker 1: said in the last episode, we did not get any

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Speaker 1: access to the autopsy report as part of the case file,

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Speaker 1: but we did get documents followed by Robbie Tubbs's defense lawyer,

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Speaker 1: and in those documents he refers to forensic testing that

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Speaker 1: was done on Christina's body. It showed that the water

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Speaker 1: and mud in her lungs matched the water from cal

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Speaker 1: Lake Ditch. We also got a few more details from

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Speaker 1: the case file that came from the autopsy report. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Fammi Malik, the metal examiner at the time, indicated that

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Speaker 1: there was obvious decomposition. He believed that Christina had been

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Speaker 1: in the water for about three days, meaning that she

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Speaker 1: was not kidnapped and kept somewhere else. For example, she

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Speaker 1: was almost certainly dumped there or fell in there on

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Speaker 1: the day she went missing. Doctor Malick also said there

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Speaker 1: were no signs of strangulation. He said he'd X rayed

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Speaker 1: the body from outside and inside. He found no stab wounds,

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Speaker 1: no obvious cuts or bruises. He also told investigators Christina's

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Speaker 1: body had a blood alcohol level of point zero three percent,

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Speaker 1: but he attributed that to the decomposition of the body.

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Speaker 1: Blood alcohol level can rise as a side effect of

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Speaker 1: the decomposition process. Other than that, the toxicology report. We're

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Speaker 1: not quite sure what tests they performed in that talk screening,

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Speaker 1: but according to what doctor Malick said in the case file,

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Speaker 1: the results of those tests seemed normal. There was much

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Speaker 1: found Christina's stomach. There were also pickles and carrots found.

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Speaker 1: Investigators asked doctor Malick if he could figure out what

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Speaker 1: had happened to Christina. Doctor Mallick quote was emphatic he

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Speaker 1: could find no other cause of death other than drowning

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Speaker 1: end quote. But when they asked him about the possibility,

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Speaker 1: for example, that she could have been smothered or choked

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Speaker 1: to the point of unconsciousness, doctor Malick said he didn't

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Speaker 1: have enough information to know how to answer that for sure.

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Speaker 1: The report reads quote when given the supposition that one

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Speaker 1: could smother an individual to the point of unconscious and

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Speaker 1: then throw that person into the river. Doctor Malleck could

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Speaker 1: make no comment regarding this, but said that this was

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Speaker 1: a possibility end quote. I know it's frustrating not to

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Speaker 1: have access to the autopsy report, but again, we're like

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Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes here, we're trying to rule out the impossible

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Speaker 1: and see what possibilities were left with. So we have

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Speaker 1: ruled out the possibility that Christina drowned somewhere else. Whatever

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Speaker 1: happened to Christina Pipkin happened out here in this ditch.

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Speaker 1: So what we know is this cause of death drowning,

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Speaker 1: manner of death undetermined. Christina's body was found about a

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Speaker 1: mile and a half west of the Jackson and Cross

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Speaker 1: County lines on State Highway forty two. Okay, Amy, Denise

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Speaker 1: and I pull up to the address we have for

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Speaker 1: a man named mister White. Where are you all going?

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Speaker 1: We're just gonna walk up to the tour and hopefully

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Speaker 1: he was the person who was out with his son

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Speaker 1: when they found Christina's body on May seventh. Yes, you

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Speaker 1: didn't leave him a business card?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: Because I think we need to kind of I feel

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Speaker 1: like if they see it. Sometimes like it'll be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's intimidating to call. But if you if we're really

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Speaker 1: could come up, we're just like two nights agirls that

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Speaker 1: you're just yeah. If we don't make contact at all,

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Speaker 1: I will even note like explaining what it is, but

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Speaker 1: I just think it's better to in this case, better

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Speaker 1: if he sees us. One thing that seemed weird to

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Speaker 1: me was that if Christina was dumped out here, this

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Speaker 1: is a very rural area, if someone drove her here,

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Speaker 1: I wondered, wouldn't that car have been seen by someone,

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Speaker 1: maybe a neighbor. And it turns out, according to the

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Speaker 1: case file, there were people at cal Lake Ditch on

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Speaker 1: the evening of May fourth, nineteen ninety one. A man

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Speaker 1: named Morgan Davis and some of his friends, Ricky has

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Speaker 1: and Ricky's wife were out frog gigging. Now, for those

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Speaker 1: of you who aren't from Arkansas, and even those who are,

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Speaker 1: I'm from South Arkansas and I had no idea what

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Speaker 1: frog gigging is. A lot of people know that frog

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Speaker 1: legs are a delicacy in places like France, but some

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Speaker 1: people don't know they're also a popular menu item in Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: so people go bullfrog hunting, which they call gigging. The

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Speaker 1: best and indeed the only time to go frog gigging

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Speaker 1: is really at night. On May fourth, Morgan Davis launched

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Speaker 1: his boat at a around nine to fifteen to nine

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Speaker 1: thirty pm off Calai Ditch. I asked my dad about

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Speaker 1: frog gigging, and he told me how it worked. To

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Speaker 1: hunt frogs, you shine a flashlight around the water, and

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Speaker 1: the idea is that you can see the frog's eyes

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Speaker 1: reflect back at you. My dad tells me, by the way,

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Speaker 1: if you see eyes reflecting red back at you and

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Speaker 1: not white, you should run because it's probably an alligator.

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Speaker 1: You also have to avoid a lot of other pitfalls

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Speaker 1: at night, like water moccasins and tree branches and other hazards.

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Speaker 1: There are apparently two types of frog traps, the ones

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Speaker 1: that simply entrap the frog in a net and the

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Speaker 1: kind that kind of look like a trident. People use

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Speaker 1: that to basically stab and scoop the bullfrogs into the boat. Morgan, Ricky,

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Speaker 1: and Ricky's wife stayed out all night. They came in

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Speaker 1: when dawn was breaking on the morning of May fifth.

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Speaker 1: During that time, they said they never saw any stranger

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Speaker 1: or any strange car. Everything seemed completely normal, and they

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Speaker 1: were in that area where Christina's body was found. Also

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Speaker 1: answered a question about the weather. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: talked about how the area had been flooded and wondered

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Speaker 1: if there had been rain the day Christina went missing.

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Speaker 1: But he answered that question. He said, there was a

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Speaker 1: big storm, but it happened on Sunday morning, the day

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Speaker 1: after Christina went missing. On Saturday night, it was warm

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Speaker 1: and dry. He said that the current was moving slowly.

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Speaker 1: He said, quote, the current was not real strong at

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Speaker 1: that time. I know that ditch and the current won't

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Speaker 1: be real swift until the bio starts dropping. We got

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Speaker 1: out of the ditch before the storm hit us that

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Speaker 1: Sunday morning. I did not see any vehicles parked around

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Speaker 1: the river bridge or ditch bridge at that time. End quote.

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Speaker 1: None of them saw Christina Pipkin that night. None of

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Speaker 1: them saw a strange car, and none of them heard

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Speaker 1: any struggle or any screams for help. So the fact

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Speaker 1: that Ricky and his boat, his party did not see

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Speaker 1: anyone that night kind of makes me lean toward one

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Speaker 1: of two possibilities. Either Christina was dumped some somewhere else,

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Speaker 1: loaded down to where they were and got stuck in

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Speaker 1: that tree branch or. She was dumped much earlier, perhaps

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Speaker 1: before nine pm, before dark when they launched their boat.

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Speaker 1: So now we need to go back again. What can

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Speaker 1: we learn from the case fall about who was where

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Speaker 1: at that time in Hickory Ridge between around six thirty

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Speaker 1: and nine pm that night. We're looking for any inconsistencies

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Speaker 1: in their stories that we can find, or anyone we

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Speaker 1: can talk to who could help filling these gaps. We

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Speaker 1: talked about Charles Cotton in our last episode. He was

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Speaker 1: one of many people of interest at the time who

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Speaker 1: were interviewed by law enforcement. He was interviewed by investigator

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Speaker 1: Steve Doser on May fifth, the day after Christina went missing.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Charles told detectives he spent May fourth

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Speaker 1: fishing at Burdeye at a place called the Bay Ditch

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Speaker 1: near Cherry Valley between one thirty and five thirty pm.

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Speaker 1: He said he was out there with a guy he

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Speaker 1: knew named Edward Hoague. He told police that Edward Hoague

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Speaker 1: had a criminal record of some kind. Charles said he

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Speaker 1: believed Edward was, as he put it, wanted either in

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Speaker 1: when or for a city at some point, presumably after

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Speaker 1: they finished fishing, at around five thirty. Charles said that

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Speaker 1: he remembered heading home, but he told police a friend

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Speaker 1: of his had reminded him that he saw Charles that

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Speaker 1: day at the Bearcat store, which would have put him

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Speaker 1: at the convenience store at around the same time Christina

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Speaker 1: was there, around five thirty to six pm. Charles's wife,

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Speaker 1: Rebecca confirmed investigators that yes, she and Charles were in

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Speaker 1: the grocery store that afternoon. Charles said that later that evening,

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Speaker 1: presumably after they left the store, he and his family,

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Speaker 1: including his twenty one year old wife Rebecca, who was

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Speaker 1: pregnant at the time, were home watching TV. Then, he said,

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Speaker 1: at around ten thirty or eleven, his friend Nea Long

285
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Speaker 1: came over and told him Christina Pipkin was missing.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: At that point, he said, he borrowed a three wheel

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Speaker 1: from another friend of his, and he and Rebecca volunteered

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00:17:08,405 --> 00:17:11,685
Speaker 1: to help with the search. Again, I just want to

290
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Speaker 1: flag a couple of things up in Charles Cotton's statement,

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Speaker 1: because it seemed like he was very invested in the search. Again,

292
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Speaker 1: this could be completely innocuous. It could be because it

293
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Speaker 1: was the biggest thing to happen around Hickory Ridge in

294
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Speaker 1: a long time. He was trying to be a good

295
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Speaker 1: neighbor whatever, But it does raise a couple of red

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Speaker 1: flags for me. Because the Pipkins had only lived in

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Speaker 1: Hickory Ridge for four months, how well could Charles Cotton

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Speaker 1: know these people. Later, Charles Cotton told police that Pat Moore,

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Speaker 1: who remember was the Pipkins neighbor who introduced James Pipkin

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Speaker 1: to Charles, told Charles that another guy had been dreaming

301
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Speaker 1: about a place on Highway forty two West. So Charles

302
00:17:55,565 --> 00:17:58,085
Speaker 1: told police that he and a couple of his friends

303
00:17:58,125 --> 00:18:00,125
Speaker 1: went out there to take a look at this place

304
00:18:00,325 --> 00:18:03,125
Speaker 1: that this guy had seen in a dream. He said

305
00:18:03,165 --> 00:18:05,645
Speaker 1: it was a shed and it was near a baby cemetery.

306
00:18:05,965 --> 00:18:08,445
Speaker 1: He said they saw what looked like drag marks on

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00:18:08,485 --> 00:18:12,325
Speaker 1: the dirt inside the shed. Supposedly Charles called the police,

308
00:18:12,605 --> 00:18:15,005
Speaker 1: but he said law enforcement never came out to look

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Speaker 1: in that shed. Around this time, there were all kinds

310
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Speaker 1: of rumors flying around about what could have happened to

311
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Speaker 1: Christina Pipkin. This was before her body was found. There

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00:18:24,405 --> 00:18:27,805
Speaker 1: were psychics calling the police. Police were inundated with people

313
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Speaker 1: trying to talk to them, and police were out conducting

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Speaker 1: tons of interviews, So this was a time when lots

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00:18:32,405 --> 00:18:36,685
Speaker 1: of rumors were flying around. It's very strange that Charles

316
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Speaker 1: would say he was going out to a location because

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Speaker 1: of something someone saw in a dream. Maybe it's because

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Speaker 1: he again was just trying to follow any lead, or

319
00:18:45,725 --> 00:18:48,445
Speaker 1: maybe it's because someone was trying to misdirect this investigation.

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Speaker 1: Investigators questioned Charles again about the money that Charles had

321
00:18:54,645 --> 00:18:57,765
Speaker 1: borrowed from James Pipkin. Remember, he borrowed two hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty five dollars from James Pipkin because he said he

323
00:19:01,285 --> 00:19:04,205
Speaker 1: hadn't been able to pay some fines related to bad

324
00:19:04,325 --> 00:19:07,645
Speaker 1: checks because he had been so busy searching for Christina.

325
00:19:08,085 --> 00:19:11,605
Speaker 1: Just another weird story in this case. In the case file,

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00:19:11,725 --> 00:19:15,245
Speaker 1: it said that Charles admitted he had borrowed the two

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00:19:15,285 --> 00:19:18,365
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five dollars from James Pipkin. He produced

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Speaker 1: a receipt that showed Charles did make a payment on

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00:19:21,365 --> 00:19:24,165
Speaker 1: bad checks to the police department. But the thing about

330
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Speaker 1: that receipt was that the receipt was dated May tenth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, and the interview was done on May fifth,

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Speaker 1: So I'm not sure what happened here. Did Charles produce

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Speaker 1: that receipt a few days later and the officer just

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00:19:37,525 --> 00:19:40,845
Speaker 1: did not note that in his report, or was the

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00:19:40,885 --> 00:19:45,365
Speaker 1: receipt post dated to May tenth? I don't know. But again,

336
00:19:45,405 --> 00:19:47,525
Speaker 1: this is just one of those confusing disrepancies in the

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Speaker 1: police report that I have no answers to. There was

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Speaker 1: another woman who said she saw something strange the night

339
00:19:56,325 --> 00:19:59,725
Speaker 1: Christina went missing. She said she saw something odd happen

340
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Speaker 1: with Charles's wife, Rebecca Cotton. This woman's name is Donna King.

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Speaker 1: There's just one problem with this police report. I talked

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00:20:09,165 --> 00:20:12,405
Speaker 1: to Donna King and she said she never told police

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Speaker 1: the story that they noted in this report. I've also

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Speaker 1: talked to Donna's friend, the friend who was with her

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00:20:18,405 --> 00:20:22,165
Speaker 1: on the night Christina Pipkin went missing, and Donna's friend

346
00:20:22,325 --> 00:20:26,805
Speaker 1: confirmed her story now again according to the case file.

347
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Speaker 1: According to this report from nineteen ninety one, Donna told

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Speaker 1: investigators that she and her husband had gone to Memphis

349
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Speaker 1: from Hickory Ridge on the day when Christina went missing.

350
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Speaker 1: Donna said in the report that they were on their

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Speaker 1: way back into town at around nine thirty pm that

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Speaker 1: night when she saw a woman quote walking the street

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Speaker 1: between the Bearcat and that post office end quote. Donna

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Speaker 1: told me that part of the report was correct because

355
00:20:52,205 --> 00:20:54,965
Speaker 1: she was in Memphis that day and she was driving

356
00:20:55,005 --> 00:20:57,885
Speaker 1: back to Hickory Ridge with her husband. But she said

357
00:20:57,885 --> 00:21:00,245
Speaker 1: that after she got back to town, she met up with

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00:21:00,285 --> 00:21:03,245
Speaker 1: this friend of hers. She said they went riding around

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00:21:03,285 --> 00:21:07,565
Speaker 1: to help look for Christina. At nine thirty pm, Donna

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00:21:07,685 --> 00:21:10,125
Speaker 1: was with her friend and she said they did not

361
00:21:10,325 --> 00:21:12,725
Speaker 1: see any woman walking along the side of the road.

362
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Speaker 1: In the police statement from nineteen ninety one, the police

363
00:21:16,805 --> 00:21:19,765
Speaker 1: said that Donna had recognized the woman she saw on

364
00:21:19,765 --> 00:21:23,685
Speaker 1: the side of the road as Rebecca Cotton, Charles Cotton's wife.

365
00:21:23,725 --> 00:21:27,365
Speaker 1: In the report, police quote Donna as saying she seemed

366
00:21:27,445 --> 00:21:30,805
Speaker 1: very sure that this was Rebecca, and that Rebecca seemed

367
00:21:30,885 --> 00:21:35,845
Speaker 1: upset and was crying. Then police said Donna told them

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00:21:36,005 --> 00:21:38,645
Speaker 1: that she saw Charles Cotton drive up to Rebecca on

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Speaker 1: a three wheeler, Rebecca refused to get on the three wheeler,

370
00:21:41,925 --> 00:21:44,405
Speaker 1: and then Charles Cotton come back and pick her up

371
00:21:44,405 --> 00:21:48,365
Speaker 1: in a car. This was a very detailed story, and

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Speaker 1: the whole thing supposedly took place several minutes before the

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Speaker 1: search party started to look for Christina, but Donna told

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Speaker 1: me none of that ever happened. In fact, she said

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Speaker 1: she didn't know Rebecca Cotton at all by sight. Now,

376
00:22:03,605 --> 00:22:06,005
Speaker 1: remember Charles said he didn't go out on that three

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00:22:06,005 --> 00:22:08,245
Speaker 1: wheel er until after ten thirty, so that would be

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00:22:08,285 --> 00:22:12,725
Speaker 1: after the search started. Also, Rebecca told police that it

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00:22:12,805 --> 00:22:15,525
Speaker 1: was not her out walking on that road. She said

380
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Speaker 1: she had never been upset that night. She was home

381
00:22:17,725 --> 00:22:21,645
Speaker 1: watching TV with her family. Rebecca Cotton did tell police

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00:22:21,645 --> 00:22:23,645
Speaker 1: that she had a pregnant sister at the time who

383
00:22:23,725 --> 00:22:26,285
Speaker 1: kind of looked like her. She suggested it could have

384
00:22:26,325 --> 00:22:29,285
Speaker 1: been her sister who was out there, but police apparently

385
00:22:29,365 --> 00:22:31,845
Speaker 1: never talked to Rebecca Cotton's sister, or if they did,

386
00:22:32,325 --> 00:22:34,845
Speaker 1: it's not part of the case file. I thought this

387
00:22:34,965 --> 00:22:39,045
Speaker 1: was just another inconsistency that was never resolved. But when

388
00:22:39,045 --> 00:22:42,445
Speaker 1: I talked to Donna King, she was adamant she never

389
00:22:42,525 --> 00:22:45,965
Speaker 1: said this. She never said she saw Rebecca Cotton. She

390
00:22:46,125 --> 00:22:48,925
Speaker 1: believes that police may have mixed their notes up or

391
00:22:49,005 --> 00:22:52,445
Speaker 1: confused her with someone else. Donna also said there was

392
00:22:52,485 --> 00:22:54,965
Speaker 1: another statement that she did give police, and she said

393
00:22:54,965 --> 00:22:58,245
Speaker 1: it was very detailed about a brown car she saw.

394
00:22:58,845 --> 00:23:01,125
Speaker 1: It does not appear to be anywhere in the case file,

395
00:23:01,165 --> 00:23:04,205
Speaker 1: and we will have details of what she says about

396
00:23:04,205 --> 00:23:07,645
Speaker 1: that in next week's episode. For now, though I don't

397
00:23:07,685 --> 00:23:10,685
Speaker 1: know what to think, this actually really shocks me. I've

398
00:23:10,725 --> 00:23:13,805
Speaker 1: seen cases where police reports had details wrong, and I've

399
00:23:13,805 --> 00:23:16,285
Speaker 1: seen instances where people didn't remember a lot of what

400
00:23:16,285 --> 00:23:19,685
Speaker 1: they said thirty years ago. But this seems like police

401
00:23:19,765 --> 00:23:23,485
Speaker 1: may have actually mixed people up or combined their stories,

402
00:23:23,965 --> 00:23:27,205
Speaker 1: which I didn't even really know was possible. And it

403
00:23:27,285 --> 00:23:31,405
Speaker 1: also begs the question if Donna King didn't tell police

404
00:23:31,445 --> 00:23:33,645
Speaker 1: about seeing Rebecca Cotton on the side of the road,

405
00:23:34,245 --> 00:23:40,245
Speaker 1: who did and is that person still out there? Okay,

406
00:23:40,525 --> 00:23:46,885
Speaker 1: let's go back to May fourth, nineteen ninety one. Michael Long,

407
00:23:46,965 --> 00:23:49,725
Speaker 1: the next door neighbor, saw Christina at the Bearcat store

408
00:23:49,765 --> 00:23:52,845
Speaker 1: at around five thirty. Christina's math teacher saw a few

409
00:23:52,845 --> 00:23:56,565
Speaker 1: minutes later, just after six pm. The cashier we talked

410
00:23:56,565 --> 00:23:59,565
Speaker 1: to from the Bearcats store also saw Christina around the

411
00:23:59,565 --> 00:24:02,925
Speaker 1: store that day at around five point thirty. She showed

412
00:24:03,005 --> 00:24:06,125
Speaker 1: us the composite drawing that looked very similar to Robbie Tubbs,

413
00:24:06,405 --> 00:24:09,725
Speaker 1: and she described a car that was brown at the time.

414
00:24:09,885 --> 00:24:13,365
Speaker 1: Robbie Tubbs drove a nineteen eighty one brown cream colored

415
00:24:13,405 --> 00:24:18,045
Speaker 1: four wheel drive AMC Eagle sedan. But then a lot

416
00:24:18,085 --> 00:24:20,405
Speaker 1: of other people mentioned blue cars, and I'm trying to

417
00:24:20,445 --> 00:24:23,805
Speaker 1: figure out who the first person was who mentioned this

418
00:24:23,885 --> 00:24:28,565
Speaker 1: suspicious blue car. Was the blue car actually something that

419
00:24:28,645 --> 00:24:31,605
Speaker 1: was seen with Christina or did it just become part

420
00:24:31,605 --> 00:24:36,605
Speaker 1: of everyone's collective imagination. Over the next few days, one

421
00:24:36,645 --> 00:24:39,805
Speaker 1: person who police wanted to talk to was Janetta, Robbie

422
00:24:39,805 --> 00:24:43,725
Speaker 1: Tubbs's girlfriend. Remember, Robbie had a bit of an unconventional

423
00:24:43,725 --> 00:24:46,525
Speaker 1: private life at the time. He was married to his wife, Sandra,

424
00:24:47,005 --> 00:24:51,205
Speaker 1: but he had a girlfriend, Janetta. Investigators talked to Janetta

425
00:24:51,245 --> 00:24:54,045
Speaker 1: and she gave more details about who Robbie was hanging

426
00:24:54,085 --> 00:24:57,005
Speaker 1: out with at the time. Janetta stated that at the

427
00:24:57,005 --> 00:24:59,885
Speaker 1: time when Christina went missing, she lived in Amagon, a

428
00:24:59,925 --> 00:25:04,405
Speaker 1: nearby town, with her brother named Larry Gill. She mentioned Linda,

429
00:25:04,605 --> 00:25:07,845
Speaker 1: the friend of rob that he sold his car to later,

430
00:25:08,725 --> 00:25:11,565
Speaker 1: and she said that Robbie had another friend named Jackie.

431
00:25:12,165 --> 00:25:14,365
Speaker 1: She didn't know Jackie's last name, but she said they

432
00:25:14,365 --> 00:25:18,685
Speaker 1: would often go shelling together. I write in my notebook

433
00:25:18,845 --> 00:25:21,525
Speaker 1: Jackie question mark, because we need to figure out who

434
00:25:21,525 --> 00:25:26,805
Speaker 1: this mysterious friend is as we said in the last episode,

435
00:25:27,525 --> 00:25:32,525
Speaker 1: Robbie claimed that Janetta and one of her children and

436
00:25:32,805 --> 00:25:35,365
Speaker 1: a young woman who he believed could be Christina had

437
00:25:35,405 --> 00:25:39,245
Speaker 1: all sat in his car at a nearby park. But

438
00:25:39,885 --> 00:25:43,045
Speaker 1: Janetta refuted Robbi's alibi. She said she never went to

439
00:25:43,045 --> 00:25:46,005
Speaker 1: the nearby park with Robbie Tubbs, her son, was never

440
00:25:46,085 --> 00:25:47,885
Speaker 1: in the car with Robbie, and she had ridden in

441
00:25:47,965 --> 00:25:51,685
Speaker 1: Robbie's car before, but never driven it. There are a

442
00:25:51,725 --> 00:25:54,925
Speaker 1: couple of other sightings of Christina Pipkin that happened later

443
00:25:55,085 --> 00:25:59,765
Speaker 1: after seven pm, but they're not confirmed. There was a

444
00:25:59,845 --> 00:26:02,525
Speaker 1: boy his name is redacted, but he was a student

445
00:26:02,525 --> 00:26:05,045
Speaker 1: at Hickory Ridge Elementary School. He was someone who went

446
00:26:05,045 --> 00:26:08,725
Speaker 1: to school with Christina. He told police that on Saturday night,

447
00:26:08,765 --> 00:26:11,445
Speaker 1: at around seven thirty or eight pm, he saw three

448
00:26:11,605 --> 00:26:14,885
Speaker 1: parked cars at Burl's gas station in wien Or, Arkansas.

449
00:26:15,325 --> 00:26:17,605
Speaker 1: He said he saw a girl standing by a blue car.

450
00:26:18,125 --> 00:26:21,405
Speaker 1: He thought it was Christina. He couldn't remember what the

451
00:26:21,445 --> 00:26:24,565
Speaker 1: little girl was wearing or really any other information, according

452
00:26:24,565 --> 00:26:27,645
Speaker 1: to the case file. I find this very frustrating because,

453
00:26:27,645 --> 00:26:30,565
Speaker 1: again I'm not trying to criticize what investigators were doing.

454
00:26:31,085 --> 00:26:33,725
Speaker 1: I know it's a small police force, but there is

455
00:26:33,765 --> 00:26:35,325
Speaker 1: a part of me that wants to jump back in

456
00:26:35,325 --> 00:26:38,485
Speaker 1: time and ask more questions. I feel like if the

457
00:26:38,485 --> 00:26:41,445
Speaker 1: investigator had spent a little more time talking to this kid,

458
00:26:42,285 --> 00:26:44,205
Speaker 1: maybe he might have been able to get more information

459
00:26:44,245 --> 00:26:46,685
Speaker 1: out of him, at least enough to look into it

460
00:26:46,765 --> 00:26:49,165
Speaker 1: further to figure out who this girl might be. If

461
00:26:49,205 --> 00:26:52,045
Speaker 1: it wasn't Christina, we could rule it out and get

462
00:26:52,085 --> 00:26:56,205
Speaker 1: a more accurate timeline. Other than Christina's friend who said

463
00:26:56,285 --> 00:26:58,525
Speaker 1: she saw Christina talking to someone in a blue car,

464
00:26:58,645 --> 00:27:02,445
Speaker 1: which may have happened after seven pm, the last person

465
00:27:02,525 --> 00:27:05,085
Speaker 1: who was sure about what time she saw Christina Pipkin

466
00:27:05,605 --> 00:27:09,205
Speaker 1: was her math teacher, Sally Lamb. Miss Lamb said she

467
00:27:09,285 --> 00:27:11,485
Speaker 1: was at the bear Cat between six thirty and six

468
00:27:11,605 --> 00:27:14,765
Speaker 1: thirty five pm. She said Christina stopped her on the

469
00:27:14,805 --> 00:27:16,565
Speaker 1: sidewalk and asked what they were going to be doing

470
00:27:16,565 --> 00:27:19,605
Speaker 1: in school that Monday. Miss Lamb said, why our math

471
00:27:19,645 --> 00:27:23,125
Speaker 1: of course. Then she saw Christina was carrying her jewelry

472
00:27:23,245 --> 00:27:28,565
Speaker 1: order catalog. She said Christina was barefoot, which, honestly, which

473
00:27:28,645 --> 00:27:32,005
Speaker 1: as we said last time, could explain why Christina's sandals

474
00:27:32,005 --> 00:27:35,325
Speaker 1: were never found. Miss Lamb remembered that she said because

475
00:27:35,325 --> 00:27:39,045
Speaker 1: she was thinking Christina wasn't really dressed appropriately for selling jewelry,

476
00:27:39,045 --> 00:27:40,365
Speaker 1: and she didn't think she was going to make a

477
00:27:40,365 --> 00:27:44,445
Speaker 1: lot of sales that day. Miss Lamb saw Christina talking

478
00:27:44,485 --> 00:27:48,525
Speaker 1: to Don Payne on Second Street. She saw Don drive away,

479
00:27:48,925 --> 00:27:52,245
Speaker 1: and she saw Christina continuing to walk south on Second Street.

480
00:27:53,125 --> 00:27:57,285
Speaker 1: We tried to track down Don Payne, unfortunately he's passed away.

481
00:27:58,685 --> 00:28:02,405
Speaker 1: Since we now have access to Robbie's wife, Sandra's statement

482
00:28:02,445 --> 00:28:03,845
Speaker 1: as part of the case file, I want to take

483
00:28:03,885 --> 00:28:07,765
Speaker 1: a closer look at that. Remember, Sandra Tubbs was murdered

484
00:28:07,765 --> 00:28:10,565
Speaker 1: two years after Christina died, so we can't go back

485
00:28:10,565 --> 00:28:13,085
Speaker 1: and talk to her. But her interview is one of

486
00:28:13,125 --> 00:28:16,205
Speaker 1: the only ones in the entire case file that's actually

487
00:28:16,205 --> 00:28:19,165
Speaker 1: transcribed pretty much word for word. So even though this

488
00:28:19,245 --> 00:28:23,045
Speaker 1: evidence is circumstantial, I think it's really important to analyze it.

489
00:28:24,685 --> 00:28:38,165
Speaker 1: Some of what Sandra told police is seriously disturbing. In

490
00:28:38,245 --> 00:28:43,325
Speaker 1: October of nineteen ninety one, Sandra Tubbs told police that

491
00:28:43,485 --> 00:28:47,525
Speaker 1: around the time when Christina went missing, Robbie Tubbs had

492
00:28:47,525 --> 00:28:50,845
Speaker 1: made some disturbing statements. She said she'd been too afraid

493
00:28:50,885 --> 00:28:52,725
Speaker 1: to come to them. In the past, and that's why

494
00:28:52,805 --> 00:28:57,125
Speaker 1: she had waited several months. Sandra said, quote, my husband,

495
00:28:57,205 --> 00:28:59,885
Speaker 1: Robbie Tubbs, he came home and was talking about what

496
00:28:59,885 --> 00:29:02,565
Speaker 1: it would be like to drown because, you know, me

497
00:29:02,725 --> 00:29:05,165
Speaker 1: being under that water all the time. He says, it

498
00:29:05,205 --> 00:29:07,605
Speaker 1: makes me wonder what it's like for somebody to drown,

499
00:29:08,125 --> 00:29:10,805
Speaker 1: you know, whether they struggle or what's their last thought

500
00:29:10,805 --> 00:29:14,805
Speaker 1: and stuff when somebody is drowning. End quote. Sandra said

501
00:29:14,805 --> 00:29:18,445
Speaker 1: that later, after Christina went missing, Robbie made another comment,

502
00:29:19,045 --> 00:29:22,005
Speaker 1: this time when a news story came on about Christina.

503
00:29:23,205 --> 00:29:26,645
Speaker 1: Sandra said, Robbie told her, quote, they'll never find her.

504
00:29:26,925 --> 00:29:29,205
Speaker 1: There's too many rice stitches and stuff around here for

505
00:29:29,285 --> 00:29:34,485
Speaker 1: somebody to drown in. She's dead. End quote. At that point,

506
00:29:34,565 --> 00:29:37,245
Speaker 1: Sandra said she got a very bad gut feeling that

507
00:29:37,325 --> 00:29:42,165
Speaker 1: something was very wrong. Robbie, like everyone else, had theories

508
00:29:42,165 --> 00:29:46,445
Speaker 1: about the case. He told Sandra that police had already

509
00:29:46,485 --> 00:29:49,445
Speaker 1: figured out someone in Christina's family had committed this crime,

510
00:29:50,205 --> 00:29:53,685
Speaker 1: that they had found some jewelry she was wearing. At

511
00:29:53,725 --> 00:29:56,805
Speaker 1: one point, he had another theory. He told Sandra he

512
00:29:56,885 --> 00:30:00,245
Speaker 1: believed the Bruce Boys did it. As a side note,

513
00:30:00,245 --> 00:30:02,605
Speaker 1: this was when Sandra found out that her husband knew

514
00:30:02,845 --> 00:30:06,605
Speaker 1: the killer siblings, known as the Bruce Brothers. The Bruce

515
00:30:06,645 --> 00:30:10,325
Speaker 1: brothers were brutal killers and arsonists. They're notorious in their

516
00:30:10,365 --> 00:30:14,965
Speaker 1: hometown of Camden, Tennessee. Like Robbie Tubbs, the Bruce brothers

517
00:30:15,165 --> 00:30:19,925
Speaker 1: were musselshellers. Apparently they hung out with Robbie Tubbs. At

518
00:30:19,925 --> 00:30:22,485
Speaker 1: the time when Robbie knew them, the Bruce brothers had

519
00:30:22,525 --> 00:30:29,205
Speaker 1: already committed multiple murders. On January sixteenth, nineteen ninety one, Gary,

520
00:30:29,445 --> 00:30:32,045
Speaker 1: Robert and Jerry Bruce set fire to the home of

521
00:30:32,125 --> 00:30:35,205
Speaker 1: Danny Vine, a musselsheller they knew who kept a lot

522
00:30:35,205 --> 00:30:39,165
Speaker 1: of cash in his property. His girlfriend, Della Thornton, also

523
00:30:39,205 --> 00:30:44,445
Speaker 1: lived there. Both Danny and Della were shot execution style

524
00:30:44,525 --> 00:30:48,885
Speaker 1: with a thirty eight caliber gun. The killers stole their money,

525
00:30:49,045 --> 00:30:53,845
Speaker 1: which police estimated and around thirty thousand dollars. This case

526
00:30:54,245 --> 00:30:56,725
Speaker 1: was really notorious and reminded me of some of the

527
00:30:56,725 --> 00:30:59,805
Speaker 1: cases I've seen in Arkansas because police talked to the

528
00:30:59,805 --> 00:31:03,045
Speaker 1: boys and they also talked to their mother, Kathleen Bruce,

529
00:31:03,605 --> 00:31:06,885
Speaker 1: and their mother not only protected her sons, but a

530
00:31:06,885 --> 00:31:12,325
Speaker 1: lot of people believe was involved in these murders. All

531
00:31:12,405 --> 00:31:15,565
Speaker 1: of the Bruce boys, Gary, Robert Jerry, and their brother

532
00:31:15,645 --> 00:31:19,925
Speaker 1: j C had violent criminal records. Jay C was actually

533
00:31:19,965 --> 00:31:23,205
Speaker 1: convicted of raping and strangling a fifteen year old girl

534
00:31:23,245 --> 00:31:27,365
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy five, but inexplicably he got pardoned by

535
00:31:27,405 --> 00:31:30,845
Speaker 1: the governor of Tennessee at the time. Later, a former

536
00:31:30,925 --> 00:31:34,125
Speaker 1: girlfriend of jay C's went to the police. She wanted

537
00:31:34,125 --> 00:31:36,205
Speaker 1: to tell them what she knew, but she was terrified

538
00:31:36,205 --> 00:31:40,845
Speaker 1: and she wanted protection. Eventually, though, the girlfriend disappeared and

539
00:31:40,885 --> 00:31:44,685
Speaker 1: she has never been seen since. All the boys provided

540
00:31:44,685 --> 00:31:47,525
Speaker 1: alibis for each other. They all covered up each other's crimes.

541
00:31:48,125 --> 00:31:51,925
Speaker 1: In the end, Robert, Jerry, Lee, and Gary were all

542
00:31:52,045 --> 00:31:56,325
Speaker 1: arrested and convicted. They got life sentences, and their mom,

543
00:31:56,445 --> 00:31:58,885
Speaker 1: Kathleen Bruce, got eight years in prison for her role

544
00:31:58,925 --> 00:32:03,805
Speaker 1: in covering up the crimes. Sheila Bradford, j C's former girlfriend,

545
00:32:03,805 --> 00:32:06,085
Speaker 1: who tried to help the police, is still gone and

546
00:32:06,125 --> 00:32:07,885
Speaker 1: her disappearance remains unsolved.

547
00:32:08,725 --> 00:32:09,045
Speaker 3: J C.

548
00:32:09,245 --> 00:32:12,565
Speaker 1: Bruce was never charged with the murders or with the

549
00:32:12,565 --> 00:32:17,205
Speaker 1: disappearance of his former girlfriend. The stuff that Robbie told

550
00:32:17,325 --> 00:32:20,365
Speaker 1: Sandra was odd because to my knowledge, no one else

551
00:32:20,365 --> 00:32:23,085
Speaker 1: has ever mentioned the Bruce brothers in connection with this case.

552
00:32:24,365 --> 00:32:27,765
Speaker 1: There's also no indication they were in Arkansas at that time.

553
00:32:28,205 --> 00:32:30,805
Speaker 1: We're following that lead, but to me, it looks like

554
00:32:30,965 --> 00:32:34,125
Speaker 1: Robbie kind of like the way he mentioned Christina's family

555
00:32:34,165 --> 00:32:37,405
Speaker 1: and the jelry being found, either was misinformed or just

556
00:32:37,485 --> 00:32:40,605
Speaker 1: making an innocent comment about what he thought, or possibly

557
00:32:40,725 --> 00:32:44,845
Speaker 1: was trying to misdirect the investigation. I keep going back

558
00:32:44,845 --> 00:32:50,365
Speaker 1: to another name, Robbie's friend Jackie Jackie question Mark, because

559
00:32:50,405 --> 00:32:53,885
Speaker 1: Sandra mentioned him too as someone who Robbie went shelling with.

560
00:32:55,605 --> 00:32:59,005
Speaker 1: Sandra said, whenever Robbie shelled in that area, he went

561
00:32:59,045 --> 00:33:02,325
Speaker 1: with Jackie. They always stopped in Hickory Ridge so he

562
00:33:02,325 --> 00:33:06,085
Speaker 1: could let Jackie out near Waldenburg, a nearby town. The

563
00:33:06,205 --> 00:33:09,045
Speaker 1: cashiers said that the man who came into the store

564
00:33:09,125 --> 00:33:12,325
Speaker 1: the night Christina Pipkin went missing was alone, But what

565
00:33:12,405 --> 00:33:15,125
Speaker 1: if Jackie was dropped off earlier? Could Jackie have been

566
00:33:15,165 --> 00:33:20,325
Speaker 1: around that night somewhere? And this quote from Sandra really

567
00:33:20,365 --> 00:33:24,525
Speaker 1: stays with me. She said, he, meaning Robbie, told me

568
00:33:24,685 --> 00:33:26,965
Speaker 1: he wasn't the only one that liked the little girls,

569
00:33:27,445 --> 00:33:31,485
Speaker 1: that Jackie liked the little girls too. She goes on

570
00:33:31,565 --> 00:33:34,445
Speaker 1: to talk of more and more about Robbie Tubb's disturbing

571
00:33:34,565 --> 00:33:37,565
Speaker 1: history of picking up young girls. She talked about an

572
00:33:37,605 --> 00:33:39,725
Speaker 1: incident where she saw an eleven year old girl sit

573
00:33:39,765 --> 00:33:43,005
Speaker 1: on Robbie's lap then run crying from the room, super upset.

574
00:33:43,485 --> 00:33:45,645
Speaker 1: She said when she asked Robbie about it, he said, oh,

575
00:33:45,685 --> 00:33:47,845
Speaker 1: she got picked on by some girls at school. He

576
00:33:47,925 --> 00:33:49,605
Speaker 1: said he was just trying to make her feel better.

577
00:33:50,165 --> 00:33:52,885
Speaker 1: But Sandra said that little girl was always hugging Robbie

578
00:33:52,885 --> 00:33:55,405
Speaker 1: and sitting in his lap. She said it made her

579
00:33:55,405 --> 00:33:59,325
Speaker 1: feel very uncomfortable. She thought something was going on. Sandra

580
00:33:59,445 --> 00:34:03,205
Speaker 1: said these incidents happened starting in nineteen eighty one, and

581
00:34:03,245 --> 00:34:06,725
Speaker 1: that they took place in Lagrange, Texas, and later in

582
00:34:06,765 --> 00:34:11,885
Speaker 1: Sulfur Springs. Later, Sandra said, quote, there was this little

583
00:34:11,885 --> 00:34:14,205
Speaker 1: girl teasing him and showing him her body. He would

584
00:34:14,205 --> 00:34:16,325
Speaker 1: talk about it like it was some big joke or something,

585
00:34:16,765 --> 00:34:18,725
Speaker 1: and then I went and told her daddy, and nothing

586
00:34:18,765 --> 00:34:21,325
Speaker 1: ever happened about it because her daddy didn't believe it.

587
00:34:21,725 --> 00:34:25,765
Speaker 1: End quote. These admissions are so disturbing to me, by

588
00:34:25,765 --> 00:34:27,725
Speaker 1: the way, I want to add. Robbie Tubbs and his

589
00:34:27,805 --> 00:34:31,125
Speaker 1: statement to police completely denied all of this. He said

590
00:34:31,125 --> 00:34:35,165
Speaker 1: he'd never been attracted to young teenagers. He denied all

591
00:34:35,205 --> 00:34:39,365
Speaker 1: of that, but it really is shocking to me for

592
00:34:39,405 --> 00:34:42,645
Speaker 1: a number of reasons. One, these girls were potentially being

593
00:34:42,685 --> 00:34:45,125
Speaker 1: abused and no one was doing anything to help them.

594
00:34:45,485 --> 00:34:49,485
Speaker 1: And two the sheer number of potentially sexual abusive people

595
00:34:49,885 --> 00:34:52,205
Speaker 1: who were around at the time, and the potential number

596
00:34:52,245 --> 00:34:58,805
Speaker 1: of victims who could still be out there. Then Sandra

597
00:34:58,885 --> 00:35:01,125
Speaker 1: talked about what happened in nineteen eighty three. This was

598
00:35:01,165 --> 00:35:04,365
Speaker 1: the incident she talked about in depth of police She

599
00:35:04,405 --> 00:35:07,005
Speaker 1: said Robbie picked up a young woman who she described

600
00:35:07,005 --> 00:35:10,805
Speaker 1: as twelve or thirteen years old and her boyfriend and

601
00:35:10,925 --> 00:35:13,845
Speaker 1: offered them a lift to Hot Springs. Sandra said at

602
00:35:13,845 --> 00:35:16,645
Speaker 1: some point during this ride she got upset, and she said,

603
00:35:16,645 --> 00:35:19,085
Speaker 1: even though she was seven months pregnant, Robbie kicked her

604
00:35:19,085 --> 00:35:22,605
Speaker 1: out of the car and left with these two young teens. Then,

605
00:35:22,765 --> 00:35:25,685
Speaker 1: she said, a few days later she showed up again.

606
00:35:25,765 --> 00:35:27,605
Speaker 1: She went out to where they dropped the kids off

607
00:35:28,685 --> 00:35:31,245
Speaker 1: what Robbie and the young woman were gone, and the

608
00:35:31,325 --> 00:35:35,285
Speaker 1: young boy apparently told Sandra that at some point they

609
00:35:35,325 --> 00:35:37,325
Speaker 1: went to a park and went to sleep. When he

610
00:35:37,445 --> 00:35:40,005
Speaker 1: woke up, he said he saw Robbie and that young

611
00:35:40,085 --> 00:35:44,805
Speaker 1: girl doing something sexual and after that, he said, Robbie

612
00:35:44,845 --> 00:35:46,645
Speaker 1: kicked him out of the car and made him walk.

613
00:35:47,845 --> 00:35:50,885
Speaker 1: After that, Sandra said, she got back together with Robbie,

614
00:35:50,925 --> 00:35:54,325
Speaker 1: which I really try not to judge of victims because

615
00:35:54,325 --> 00:35:56,165
Speaker 1: I never know what anyone has been through and what

616
00:35:56,205 --> 00:35:59,125
Speaker 1: their history is. But I do find it shocking. I

617
00:35:59,165 --> 00:36:02,925
Speaker 1: can't help it. She said. Quote. I said, Robbie, don't

618
00:36:02,925 --> 00:36:04,525
Speaker 1: you know you could get in bad trouble for that.

619
00:36:04,565 --> 00:36:06,765
Speaker 1: You could go to prison for them, And he said,

620
00:36:06,805 --> 00:36:09,005
Speaker 1: who the hell cares? The only one who could do

621
00:36:09,045 --> 00:36:12,165
Speaker 1: anything about it was her mama. He said, her mama

622
00:36:12,205 --> 00:36:15,045
Speaker 1: didn't care that she gave us a blanket end quote.

623
00:36:16,445 --> 00:36:20,285
Speaker 1: Sandra said that Robbie became physically abusive and violent and

624
00:36:20,365 --> 00:36:22,765
Speaker 1: had beaten her when she mentioned what he had said

625
00:36:22,765 --> 00:36:26,045
Speaker 1: about Christina Pipkin. She said, after she threatened to tell

626
00:36:26,085 --> 00:36:29,365
Speaker 1: police what she knew, he told her that she was crazy.

627
00:36:29,965 --> 00:36:31,965
Speaker 1: He quote told me that I was crazy and they

628
00:36:31,965 --> 00:36:34,725
Speaker 1: would never believe me, and it really made him mad,

629
00:36:34,765 --> 00:36:39,285
Speaker 1: and he gagged me and choked me. This is all

630
00:36:39,405 --> 00:36:42,805
Speaker 1: very disturbing, both the violence and the fact that, according

631
00:36:42,805 --> 00:36:45,845
Speaker 1: to Sandra in her police statement, Robbie had a history

632
00:36:45,885 --> 00:36:48,005
Speaker 1: of asking very young girls to ride with him in

633
00:36:48,045 --> 00:36:52,845
Speaker 1: his vehicle, and then she claims sexually assaulting them or

634
00:36:52,885 --> 00:37:00,485
Speaker 1: propositioning them. Robbie said that yes, he was driving a

635
00:37:00,565 --> 00:37:02,605
Speaker 1: brown AMC Eagle at the time, but he said his

636
00:37:02,645 --> 00:37:05,405
Speaker 1: car had torn up in the fall of nineteen ninety

637
00:37:05,925 --> 00:37:07,685
Speaker 1: We know, though, that he didn't get rid of that

638
00:37:07,725 --> 00:37:11,205
Speaker 1: car until the spring of nineteen ninety one. By the way,

639
00:37:11,285 --> 00:37:14,525
Speaker 1: in his police statement, Robbie admitted, yes, he had had

640
00:37:14,565 --> 00:37:16,765
Speaker 1: sex with a girl on the way to Hot Springs

641
00:37:16,885 --> 00:37:19,605
Speaker 1: in the incident Sandra described, but he said the girl

642
00:37:19,645 --> 00:37:23,165
Speaker 1: told him she was eighteen. It turned out he said

643
00:37:23,205 --> 00:37:25,405
Speaker 1: she was only fourteen or fifteen years old at the time.

644
00:37:27,045 --> 00:37:29,965
Speaker 1: Another odd thing about this case file. There are polygraph

645
00:37:29,965 --> 00:37:34,765
Speaker 1: examinations of several people, all of whom passed their polygraphs,

646
00:37:35,245 --> 00:37:38,845
Speaker 1: but there is not a polygraph of Robbie Tubbs. It

647
00:37:38,845 --> 00:37:41,685
Speaker 1: would appear that he failed based on what investigators said,

648
00:37:41,685 --> 00:37:44,005
Speaker 1: but we have no idea what happened to that polygraph.

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00:37:44,685 --> 00:37:47,085
Speaker 1: I wonder why it's not part of the case file.

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00:37:48,805 --> 00:37:51,605
Speaker 1: The man who discovered Christina's body with his young son

651
00:37:51,725 --> 00:37:55,805
Speaker 1: told us something else that the sheriff believed Christina had

652
00:37:55,845 --> 00:37:59,285
Speaker 1: been dumped further upstream and then floated down toward where

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00:37:59,325 --> 00:38:03,205
Speaker 1: she was eventually found. The sheriff at the time told

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00:38:03,365 --> 00:38:06,045
Speaker 1: this man that if Christina didn't get hung up on

655
00:38:06,045 --> 00:38:08,565
Speaker 1: one of those branches, she would have floated out to

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00:38:08,565 --> 00:38:13,045
Speaker 1: the bayou and eventually to the Saint Francis River. Like

657
00:38:13,085 --> 00:38:16,965
Speaker 1: we said earlier, it seems to go on forever. I

658
00:38:17,005 --> 00:38:19,245
Speaker 1: haven't been able to make contact with the sheriff at

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00:38:19,285 --> 00:38:21,845
Speaker 1: the time, Sheriff Huey, though I have found out where

660
00:38:21,885 --> 00:38:25,845
Speaker 1: he drinks coffee most mornings, so that's a start. But

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00:38:25,965 --> 00:38:29,845
Speaker 1: if this theory about Christina being dumped further upstream is right,

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00:38:30,565 --> 00:38:33,845
Speaker 1: that would explain While Morgan Davis and his friends didn't

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00:38:33,885 --> 00:38:36,805
Speaker 1: see any sign of her or of any other stranger

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00:38:36,845 --> 00:38:40,605
Speaker 1: that night, they also didn't hear anyone screaming for help.

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00:38:41,725 --> 00:38:44,125
Speaker 1: It is possible if this was some kind of accident,

666
00:38:44,605 --> 00:38:47,845
Speaker 1: maybe Christina fell in and drowned quickly. We know she

667
00:38:47,885 --> 00:38:53,165
Speaker 1: couldn't swim, and drownings can happen fast. But I believe

668
00:38:53,205 --> 00:38:56,125
Speaker 1: the evidence points to Christina being driven out to that ditch.

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00:38:56,725 --> 00:38:59,445
Speaker 1: I agree with the police here. I believe that it's

670
00:38:59,565 --> 00:39:02,365
Speaker 1: very possible that she was thrown in that water while

671
00:39:02,365 --> 00:39:06,805
Speaker 1: she was either unconscious or dying. If that happened, it

672
00:39:07,005 --> 00:39:11,085
Speaker 1: was dark that night, So I'm asking myself, is it

673
00:39:11,205 --> 00:39:14,485
Speaker 1: possible that Christina could have floated right past them in

674
00:39:14,565 --> 00:39:18,565
Speaker 1: their boat? And I'm thinking about something else the sheriff

675
00:39:18,605 --> 00:39:22,445
Speaker 1: said when he said, if she didn't get caught, if

676
00:39:22,485 --> 00:39:25,925
Speaker 1: she wasn't entangled on that branch, she would have floated

677
00:39:26,005 --> 00:39:28,125
Speaker 1: right out to the river with no one knowing about it.

678
00:39:28,885 --> 00:39:32,485
Speaker 1: The next question that naturally follows is are there more

679
00:39:32,525 --> 00:39:35,485
Speaker 1: bodies of missing children that floated out to the river

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00:39:36,125 --> 00:39:41,485
Speaker 1: and were never found. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen

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00:39:41,525 --> 00:39:47,285
Speaker 1: Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production

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00:39:47,325 --> 00:39:50,125
Speaker 1: of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and

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00:39:50,205 --> 00:39:53,445
Speaker 1: narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts.

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00:39:54,125 --> 00:39:58,725
Speaker 1: Music contributed by Ben Solee, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott,

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00:39:58,845 --> 00:40:02,125
Speaker 1: Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If you have a case

686
00:40:02,125 --> 00:40:04,085
Speaker 1: you'd like me and my team to look into, you

687
00:40:04,125 --> 00:40:05,845
Speaker 1: can reach out to us at our Health and Gone

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00:40:05,885 --> 00:40:09,045
Speaker 1: Murder Line six seven eight seven four four six one

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00:40:09,085 --> 00:40:13,085
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00:40:13,245 --> 00:40:17,085
Speaker 1: one four five. Please subscribe and leave us a review

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00:40:17,365 --> 00:40:33,805
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