1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to do do it can happen here a podcast increasingly 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: about nurses strikes and yeah, this is part two of 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: our Inny of You with Nick, a nurse in the UK. Enjoy. 4 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: We've entered the tafty Turviya land where the RCNC used 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: to be the people who are like leading on the 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: militancy in this in this French where yeah, yeah, And 7 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: I think part of it comes down to is because 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: the RCM was historically for a sneaking part city was 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: not a union, became a union late in the day 10 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: for then eight was for ages anti strike. A lot 11 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: of unions because like we can talk about the John 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: critique of unions and particularly like institutional unions, how they 13 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: service providers, how they build up like a protective bureaucracy 14 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: against Burton struggle or against like glass roots militancy. The 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: RCM it's not a particularly democratic as these things go, 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: but it doesn't have that kind of built up institutional 17 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: inertia in the trade union side because historically it hasn't 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: needed it, and that meant I think it was actually 19 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: far more susceptible. It's two grassroots pressure and militancy then 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: some of the other more established unions were and that's all, Oh, sorry, no, 21 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: and that kind of like was the thin end of 22 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: the webs that the rcenter taker's bostrong stance over the 23 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: pay rise in response to like grassroots organizing and like 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: a demand from the grassroots to do that, which then 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: results in them like batting for strike action first, which 26 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: then meant other unions had to and then we got 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: the and then the cascade of like strikes in the 28 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: NHS have occurred since then. So this is this is 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: a very very broad question to be asking, but how 30 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: how have the strikes has been going. That's kind of 31 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: a differ got one to say. So Scotland, for instance, 32 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: has not been called out, has not actually had any 33 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: strike days because the Scottish government went into negotiations to 34 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: begin with and then made an offer, it was rejected, 35 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: strikes were announced, they made another, agreed to come back 36 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: to negotiations. So like it's been effective in getting something 37 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: moving in Scotland. Their current offer of fifteen percent over 38 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: two years, so six something this year, five something next 39 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: year is currently being voted on by the RCA membership. 40 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: It's not it's not a good but it's a significant 41 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: movement of what came before Wales. The Welsh government, after 42 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: saying no, we can't have any more money. We can't. 43 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: We literally can't because Westminster controls our budget. Westminster won't 44 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: give us any more budget for this has now made 45 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: an improved, an improved offer. It's crap, but it's like 46 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: something it's forcome to shift when they were claiming it 47 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: was physically impost for them to do it, which every 48 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: single time, like I can think of exactly one time 49 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: ever where I've seen an employer make that demand and 50 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: it was actually true. But this is not like that. 51 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: That was that was like what Norfolk Southern in like 52 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,839 Speaker 1: like the nineteen seventies, and it was only true once 53 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: and it's never been true ever since then. Like you 54 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: will hear this from every fucking employer who you attempt 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: to go on track against, and they're always lying, like 56 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: every single time. What I will say is like in 57 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: the case of Wales, it is very true. The Welsh 58 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: government's budget is set by Westminster, by the CeNSE of government, 59 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: so it's a lie, but it's a plausible lie. Yeah, 60 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: And Wales is generally massively Wales is like some of 61 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: the highest rates of child poverty outside of Eastern Europe. 62 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: In Europe, the reasons. Part of the reasons for this 63 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: is because the Wales government is chronically underfunded. Yeah yeah, 64 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: due to political desinis has made in England, but it's 65 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: still not true. And then in England, like it's got 66 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: to the point where a government who are categorically opposed 67 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: to any negotiations with trade unions have actually come to 68 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: negotiating tables. So from that, although a suspective, loads of 69 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: preconditions that haven't been publicly talked about, and they're going 70 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: to not make a credible offer in my view and 71 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: as a stalling tactic, but the fact they even chose 72 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: to come to the table at all. I hate saying 73 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: this because it makes it's the kind of thing that 74 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: makes people complacent. But that is actually quite big that 75 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: the Conservative government actually agreed to do it, to come 76 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: to negotiating table. Stopped hiding behind oh there's an independent 77 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: paybody that decides these things. Stop saying it's we can't 78 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: afford to fund the NHS anymore. Actually just coming and 79 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: sitting at the table at all to negotiate. It's like 80 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: a big movement of itself. Now if we talk about 81 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: numbers of participation in strikes. There's been a lot of difficulties, 82 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: a lot of nowhere near as many people have participated 83 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: in the strikes as should have been. I will be 84 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: frank and say so now we're going to talk about 85 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: the derogations, the situation delegations, which is like the RN 86 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: voluntarily saying we will allow this many people to continue 87 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: working these days and these areas in order to maintain 88 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: patient safety, which is, on one hand, we don't want 89 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: any patients to die obviously, on the other hand, it's 90 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: a very easily abused stance to take. And there are 91 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: just nurses who are other trade unions who who aren't 92 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: a trade unions as well, and ultimately, if they want 93 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: that not to happen, they need to just come to 94 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: the table earlier. And so this results in a process 95 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: where so by to you and like time sensitive chemo 96 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: and pediatric A and ees were derogated by default, and 97 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: then there was an agreement of if the wards had 98 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: less than like nighttime numbers, we would agreed for a 99 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: small amount of our of our membership to go in 100 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: to work on those wards to maintain nighttime numbers for 101 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: the sake of patients safety. But that had to be 102 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: applied form on a case by case bas basis. But 103 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: there's a couple of problems with this one. Trust just 104 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: not taking it seriously, lying and not trying to establish 105 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: these things to make accurate requests, leaving it to the 106 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: last minute, and then asking for blanket derogations. We don't 107 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: know if it's going to be safe or not. Managers 108 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: like ward managers not actually knowing what was agreed and 109 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: to giving incorrect information to their staff, people not understanding 110 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: what was of wasn't derogated, And just generally it was 111 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: a system that was very open to abuse, and so 112 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: like a lot of a lot of things were just 113 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: left open in general or like that shouldn't have been 114 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I know that it didn't 115 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: happen in every case, but like there was a success 116 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: in like members the strike committee going around wards and 117 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: saying no, you're over number, you need to come out, 118 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: and people doing it. Of like surgeries being canceled, like 119 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: elective surgeries, nontime sensitive surgeries being canceled due to it, 120 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: of like really making hospital managers sweat over like proving 121 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: each thing needed to happen they wanted needed to happen. 122 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: Those days, all of it's built up. Even if we 123 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: didn't get the full amount of people we should have 124 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: had out on strike, on strike really built up the 125 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: pressure significant degrees from them to then put the pressure 126 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: up the chain of the NHS to the government's like 127 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: we can't keep on going on like this. And at 128 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: the same time each set of strikes, the number of 129 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: people participating did increase, so like, for instance, I've just 130 00:07:53,080 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: got the government statistics from that the fifteenth of December, 131 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: I think it is so this was the first strike 132 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: day that was called. It was nine thousand, nine hundred 133 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: and ninety nine absences due to industrial action. Then on 134 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: the twentieth it was eleven thousand, five hundred and nine. 135 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: Then on the eighteenth and nineteenth of January, and just 136 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: one important factor, they didn't call all hospitals out at once. 137 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: Again I think a mistake of strategic mistakes should have 138 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: gone hard, gone hard fast. But the argue was we 139 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: just we don't have the facilities to organize all of 140 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: this effectively on all of these last amounts, because like 141 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: it was a huge amount of trusts they needed to 142 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: do that with. But then on those days it was 143 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: then eleven thousand, three hundred and sixty three and eleven thousand, 144 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: two hundred and nineteen across those two days. Then in 145 00:08:54,720 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 1: February it was fifteen thousand, nine hundred ninety eight, and 146 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 1: then I'm fourteen on the second day, fourteen thousand and 147 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: then fifty eight to people, which is far lower than 148 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: it should have been. I can't remember how many people 149 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: there are nursed are on the NHS, so I should 150 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: have had that statissecretity, but it's not an inconsiderate amount. 151 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: It meant lots about patients appointments being canceled, a lot 152 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: of surgeries being canceled, a lot of chaos and stress 153 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: for the managers of the NHS and therefore for the government. 154 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: Are looking really bad for them. And it's a clear 155 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: upwards trajectory, which meant that when they are seeing announced 156 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: we're going to do two days consecutive, we're not. We're 157 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: going to keep it going through the night, which they 158 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: han't done previously, and we're not doing derogations. I to 159 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: you will be staffed. I think we're not doing anything else. 160 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: I think no even it TOU wasn't staffed. We'd considered 161 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: on a case by case basis, we won't be considered 162 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: what sorry, intensive care, I see you for America. Actually okay, yeah, 163 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: So that meant that at that point the government prob like, okay, 164 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: we need to move to a new delaying tactic. They're 165 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: not just going to give up. And I think with that, 166 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: as it went on, like people were itching and itching 167 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: to go further. And so for instance, like A and 168 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: E was derogated, So which is the area I work in? 169 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: But like a lot of people and this is reflective 170 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: of like most areas that were derogated. When I spoke 171 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: to people, we weren't them like, no, we need to 172 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: be out, we need to be out the picket line. 173 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: And like after the first two rounds, there was also 174 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: a growing effort to like try and find out from 175 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: the membership of what the actual situation was. So unlike 176 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,479 Speaker 1: staffing on the wards, because all wards are chronically understaffed. 177 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: So when they said, oh, well neath this, aren't people 178 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: who say, no, we know that's alive, we know one 179 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: nights there's actually only three registered nurses. There's not the 180 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: four you're claiming and stuff like that. It's again I 181 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: think it was a really positive move in like embedding 182 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: a kind of like workers, inquiry of workers nor it's 183 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: about their workplace into the organizing of the strike that 184 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: had been quite a top down process. But yeah, and 185 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: I'm kind of worried about how this delay and break 186 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: in the strike action will affect that momentum that had 187 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: been building up. I think, like to a large degree, 188 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: people are like itching to go again, and I think 189 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: that desire to go again is building as it goes. 190 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: Like when it initially happened, but this social instally called off, 191 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: there was a lot of like trust, like in like 192 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: the big WhatsApp groups and stuff and talk to people, 193 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: there was a lot of like people thinking of at 194 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: least I don't know if this was represent general opinion, 195 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: but people being quite Vocnate Beau say no, we need 196 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: to trust like Pat knows what she's doing, they wouldn't 197 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: have called it off of this thing. It's like it's 198 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: getting more and more those people being like, no, we 199 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 1: need to, we need to go, we need to we 200 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: need to get back on the picket line. And there's 201 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: been a petition that's been going around that's been getting 202 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: quite a bit of news, like setting out some hard 203 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: lines like four to the end R and C leadership 204 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: about what kind of stuff they should accept, like saying, no, 205 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: we need to stick to the above inflation busting, we 206 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 1: need to not compromise on this, we need to not 207 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: compromise in this, which is I think got eight hundred 208 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: and eighty signatures at the moment. It doesn't sound like 209 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: a huge amount, but like again you're going through quite 210 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: a lot of immersia of like attitude of like you've 211 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: got to leave it to the leadership among the membership, 212 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: even when they were unhappy with it. And it's only 213 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: a thousand signatures that are necessary in the RCNSU where 214 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: the RCM works to call an extraordinary general meeting, which 215 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: they can do pretty much whatever it wants. And that's 216 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: how the leadership in two and eighteen was kicked out 217 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: after the bad pay deal. Then well that's really interesting. Yeah, 218 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: so like the very undemocratic except for this one particular thing. Yeah, 219 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: is it is it a normal thing? That? Is it 220 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: like a normal thing for unions in the in the 221 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: UK or is that just like a most most I 222 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: think all unions have of an amount of people set 223 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: amount where if like memberships calling for an extraordinary general meeting, 224 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: they have to do it. The RCNS one is really 225 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: low interesting essentially, and like there were some moves were 226 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: like people in the r C a least say, oh, 227 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:15,599 Speaker 1: we need to change it, we need to give it 228 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: a v we need we need to raise it to 229 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: be more in line with other unions. But that again 230 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: is something that will have to that if that does happen, 231 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: that kind of change we'd have to go through like 232 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: a membership wide vote. It's not something the executive leadership 233 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: could just impose. That's good. Yeah, So like there is 234 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: a process of like these strikes were like a result 235 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: of like increasing general level of militancy with among nurses 236 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: in general and among NHS workers. And I think particularly 237 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: because everyone knows it's awful the situation, and then with 238 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: like a slightly more organized than spearing it the resulted 239 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: in that in that petition in twenty eighteen, arguing for 240 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: stuff at like compass and things, and then that's all 241 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: actual strike has like got the membership feeling like they 242 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: should have a more active role, and I think it's 243 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: pushing things in a positive direction, even though I think 244 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: the rc AND leadership has gotten to a point where 245 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: by mistake, it ended up way ahead of the other 246 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: unions and it's now trying to beg attle, but I don't. 247 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of potential for like more 248 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: glass roots organized by the membership to prevent that happening. Yeah. 249 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: We are in a difficult position though that the time 250 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: is running out. Strike mandates in the UK only last 251 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: for six months. We are when the government that greed 252 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: negotiations were to and a half months left of the mandate. 253 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: It's now two months left of the mandate. You have 254 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: to give two weeks notice before strike action. Oh so 255 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: that's that that that's that's what to sort of like 256 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: run out the clock strategies about on their side. Okay, 257 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: that makes sense exactly. Now, nothing's to stop us from reballoting. Yeah, 258 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: but it will be a whole process. It has to 259 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: be a month. You have to go through the mail. Yeah, 260 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: it will be drawn out. We'll buy them a lot 261 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: more time. Yeah, that's postal workers I think are on 262 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: strike again today too, I think maybe, I think so, 263 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: let me, I've got the strike calendar up on my computer. 264 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: Let's see who's on strike and absolutely fraud. I have 265 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: it on my other computer, but I don't have it 266 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: on this one. Yeah, so days the fifteen today Amazon's 267 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: on striking, Coventry, the BBC's regil services, the civil service, 268 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: which will kind of be equivalent to like a federal 269 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: stuff um in America. So like fince, it's my dad, 270 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: who's a Health and safety inspector is on strike today, 271 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: h MRC, which is the tax officers on strike, junior 272 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: doctors on strike, off stead, the School of Structors on 273 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: spike strike, the rail the two main rail unions on strike, 274 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: teaches on strike, and university stuff on strike. Not the 275 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: postal service today. But yeah, yeah, well I guess, I 276 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: guess I wanted to ask a bit about that too, 277 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: about sort of just what what's been happening. I don't 278 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: know what what what you see as sort of the 279 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: potential of the of the broader strikes have been happening, 280 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: because this is this is a I don't know, I mean, 281 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: it's not it's not it's not like a like it's 282 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: it's not like a nineteen seventies style like strike wave, 283 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: but it's it's a lot of strikes for the UK 284 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: in the last decade. It's it's big like that isn't 285 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: the level of cross union corporation and talks that you 286 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: would want. There's a lot of like people turning up 287 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: to each other's picket lines. There's a lot of like 288 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: solidarity present, but it's not coalescing into like a into 289 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: like a unified movement, which you're hoping to be. Although 290 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: I do think if something doesn't change, it is moving 291 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: in that direction. And like the Conservative government is at 292 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: like an all time loan it's popularity ratings. Yeah, I think. 293 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're aware from this quote from 294 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: Margaret that's about how her main political goal was remaking 295 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: the soul of Britain away because like up until that 296 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: period there was a very strong trade union movement in 297 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: the UK that it had like one of the best 298 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: social democracies in the world, like comparable to Scandinavia today 299 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: it was. It was far more like a collective attitude 300 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: in the UK. And like Margaret factor is explicit. I 301 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: can't remember the exact quote explicit project and the project 302 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: or the Conservative Party at the time. Let's not put 303 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: it all on her, great woman thee of histories, as 304 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: bad as great man of history, to move the soul 305 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: of the like general social attitude and personality of like 306 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: people in Britain away from that like orientations like community 307 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: and collective struggle and action. And there is a part 308 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: of me that feels like this is a move away 309 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: from that, because like everyone you go to, there's winging 310 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: about like an inconvenience caused by strike, but pretty much 311 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 1: everyone is like, yeah, those they have it. It's awful 312 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: for them all the strike drivers. Good on them for 313 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: standing up for themselves. Good on the teachers for standing 314 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: up for themselves. Good on postal workers were standing up 315 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: for themselves. Good on nurses were standing up for themselves. 316 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: Like the amount of like stuff I've been brought by 317 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: people on the picket lines has been in It's like 318 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: I each to day I've been like rolling down for 319 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: hill from my hospital to my house like a bloated 320 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: stomach from like stuff members of the public import and 321 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: dropped off at the pick it line. It's um. It 322 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: makes me feel like it's there is the optimist part 323 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: of me. It does feel like there is a reorientation 324 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: in general of British public to the idea that we 325 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: don't have to put up with this, yeah, and you 326 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: don't have to struggle and try and get it on 327 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: your own. And like it's early days yet, but I 328 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: do see something positive moving in that direction in the UK. 329 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: As to this strike wave, Yeah, that's a that is 330 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: I don't know that that is great news from a 331 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: place that does not usually generate great news. This is 332 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: like the this is the deeply optimistic part of me. 333 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: On the other hand, do you have like bad a 334 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: lot of bad news coming out of the UK. Yeah, 335 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: Like this strike wave is good news. It is the 336 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: fact that it's happening in the NTS in particular, which 337 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: has been so resistant to industrial action historically, and also 338 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: just because of how what significant part of the economy 339 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: it is as well, because like you know, the NHS 340 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: is the eighth biggest employee in the world. Wow, you 341 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: know it's in the world. That's that's wild. Yeah, Like 342 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: it used to be like the fifth biggest in the world. Wow, 343 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: it's yeah. It used to only be that the American Army, 344 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: the Chinese army, McDonald's of Walmart would be it would 345 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: be overtaken by Amazon and such now but yeah, yeah, 346 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: like like strike action, so like from like a worker's perspective, 347 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: like strike action of like the largest section of the workforce, 348 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: nurses in the NHS, the biggest flow in the world, 349 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: leaving aside the situation for everything else in the UK, 350 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: leaving aside their history of the opposition, like the active 351 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: opposition to the idea of striking within nursing historically in 352 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: the UK, is huge news and something to be hopeful about, 353 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: and then put into context of the more border strikeway 354 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: in the UK and within the NHS in general, this 355 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: is huge and it is a sign I think or 356 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 1: positive change and like reortation towards workplace struggle occurring. I think. 357 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: So I've now heard two different places do this, which 358 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: was I heard this in Chile in twenty nineteen, and 359 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: I heard this also on my picket line at the 360 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: University of Chicago in twenty nineteen, which is I had like, 361 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: I this is this is the place deal liberalism was born, 362 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: and we will kill it here. And I mean those 363 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: are the three places, Yeah, Chicago and the UK. Yeah, 364 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: I think. I think also arguably Germany, although that has 365 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: a whole other The d Libs aren't I think Aldo 366 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: Libs from my understanding of from listening to some things 367 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: about years ago, it's more of a family resemblance than 368 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: the exact same thing as neoliberalism. Yeah, I mean, I 369 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: think if we're gonna I think they got absorbed into 370 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: the neoliberal bubble so far as like like they're they're 371 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: the order libs are where the neo liberals got the 372 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: sort of like we need to have like an international bureaucracy, 373 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: like the legal bureaucracy from like hyak is also like 374 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: heavy of all. Yeah that that's that's a whole this right, 375 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, like it is. It is encouraging to me 376 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: that it's like, I don't know, like like the it 377 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: really does seem like in the places where the liberalism 378 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: was bored, it's like it's starting to come apart. Yeah, 379 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: And you know, I know people people have been predicting 380 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: the death neoliberalism for like long, well almost as long 381 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: as I've been alive. But I don't know this this 382 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: like the fact that it's happening in these places seems 383 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: different than it does seem look on it. I think 384 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: it is significan can I think I'm I am cautiously 385 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: excited every time I hope something bad happens, but I 386 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: am hopeful now. And you know, my brain isn't magic, 387 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: so it can't be a cause of effect there. Yeah, 388 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: but I don't know. I mean, like you are the 389 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: second person I've interviewed from the UK who actually seemed 390 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: to be like somewhat optimistic about the direction you could 391 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: possibly be going, which is the first time I've heard 392 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: that in Like, I mean, I guess you're people who 393 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: are optimistic about Corbin, but yeah, I don't know. This 394 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: is this is the first sort of like signs of 395 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: that since I don't know a long time, and I think, yeah, 396 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: look like if I was honestly the American listeners, like, 397 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: if turf Island isn't doomed, then we're not doomed either. 398 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. He's what I canna say. You're over 399 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: taking us on that. It's true. Yeah we have Yeah, 400 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: I am Yeah, I don't know when this is out, 401 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna I'm going to be honest man. Like 402 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways the UK is better than 403 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: the MASTER. Yeah, the US like it's a it's a 404 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: real disaster, like it's it's yeah. Yeah, I mean I 405 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: think we're both equally banned a lot of ways. Yeah, 406 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: I think the things and the things that like people 407 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,959 Speaker 1: in the US look at England say this is awful, 408 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: and the things people in the UK look at the 409 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: US and say this is awful. It's it's kind of 410 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: a a child looking at their parent and being pissed 411 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: off at them, and a child and a child and 412 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: a parent looking at their child and being disappointed in them. No, no, 413 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: you both suck. It's family resemblance. It's we hate us 414 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: for It's a narcissism of small differences, like yeah, between 415 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: the US and the uk K a lot of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 416 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: I guess do you have anything else do you want 417 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: to say about the strikes? I think the fact it 418 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: got this far is incredible. There's so much further that 419 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: needs to go. Um, I'm really excited and I'm really scared. 420 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: I think this is a potential for like a turning 421 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: point around, both for the NHS, but for my profession 422 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: for nursing and also like in general in the context 423 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: the widestrike page for the UK. But you know, the 424 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: higher the stakes, the higher the perils. Like this is 425 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: our I think this is our fight to lose essentially, 426 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: Like I think if we do it, if we go 427 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: seriously and like the membership takes controls of it from 428 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: like the leader from their union leadership, which is very cautious, 429 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: which has been put put into position of being more 430 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: miller of like unprecedented mills to see almost by accident, 431 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: we're trying to appease the membership. We can achieve something incredible, 432 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: but it's really the book's open. It can go either way, 433 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: and like I'm excited and I'm terrified by it. Yeah, 434 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: if people want to support the strikes, where can they go? 435 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: Is there a strike fund they can donate to? Ye, 436 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: the RCM has an open strike fund. I would invite 437 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: anyone listening to donate too. I would also like find 438 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: the articles about the petition they've been going around, like 439 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: the mind of the rcmle ship takes the stronger stance, 440 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: and like just share that around generally create more visibility 441 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, well we'll put links to both of 442 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: those in the description. Yeah, those are the main things 443 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: I would suggest. Again, the national nature of this struggle 444 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 1: and the fact that it's not even really against our 445 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: direct employers makes it harder to talk specifically about this 446 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: thing or that thing in some ways. But yeah, those 447 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: are the two things I would ask, Like, the big 448 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: our strike poll, the easier it is to argue for 449 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: more aggressive action, and the more visibility goings on that petition, 450 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: the more it'll take a lot more than a petition 451 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: to like shift things to the roots, to being in 452 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: the forefront and the leadership position of this. But it's 453 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: something that will make people feel more empowered to put 454 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: more pressure on the leadership. It's like a small stepping 455 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: point towards what we need. I'd also like to recommend 456 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: a book to anyone who wants to find out more 457 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: about the history of the NHS and the current situation. 458 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: Some commrades of mind, like from a group called the 459 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: Ambi Workers and also revolution. I always forget the other group. 460 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: They did it with his name, this is embarrassing. Yeah, 461 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: anarchist communist group and Healthcare Workers United, which is like 462 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: a network I'm involved in, put together a book called 463 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: Sick of It, which is like a collection of workers 464 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: inquiries and reflections on the NHS. It's history, it's potentials 465 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: and what and it and stuff. That's really a great book. 466 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: Sadly not available as any book, but it's it's an 467 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: excellent read and like it'll tell you, we'll give you 468 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: a real insight into what the NHS has been historically 469 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: and what it is now. If anyone who's interested in that, 470 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: that's awesome. Yeah, the angry workers are really cool. By 471 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: the way, they're on Twitter. I probably should have. It's 472 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: probably just angry workers. Yeah, yeah it is. Oh wait, no, 473 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, it's it's workers. It's at workers angry I 474 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: think wait, no, no, it's yeah, it's at work. Is angry? 475 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: It is? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not on Twitter. I don't 476 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't know about these things. It is. It is 477 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: a cursed place. Um yeah, getting workased. Oh god. Yeah. 478 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: If you want to want to find us at Twitter, 479 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: we are at cours and Media. Um yeah, we're also 480 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: on Instagram. I'm told we're on Instagram. I don't have one, 481 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: so I don't know. This is what I've been being 482 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: told for many years. If we don't, don't tell me. Yeah, 483 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: and thank you all for listening, and yeah, go do 484 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: your own strikes at make bosses lives miserable. Please. The 485 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: most strikes are going on, the more people want to 486 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: go on strike. Hey, it could happen here as a 487 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool 488 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or 489 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 490 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for 491 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: it could happen here. Updated monthly at cool zonemedia dot 492 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: com slash sources. Thanks for listening.