1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily and this is Bridget and you're 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told you. And today we're 3 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: talking about a topic that, if you know me, it's 4 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: something that's very near and dear to my heart, much 5 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: like all of our topics. Um. So many of you 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: know that I got my start in my career teaching 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: at a university here in Washington, d C. Called Howard 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: UM and Howard, if you don't know, is a very 9 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: well known historically black college. A lot of people when 10 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: I when I say this, they say, what's an HBCU 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: and HBCUs were in the news recently back in Debruary, 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: when Betsy devas the head of the Department of Education, 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: she called historically black college quote pioneers of school choice 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: not great wording. Twitter really had a field day with this, 15 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: And if you're wondering why that is, you know you 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 1: might be thinking, oh, school choice, that sounds great, just 17 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: sound good. It sounds a very positive, it's a very 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: it's a very um loving reimaginating of what the situation 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: actually is the reason why Twitter had a field day 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: with her comments is because her comments that HBCUs are 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: pioneers of school choice totally overlooks the fact that HBCUs 22 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: were founded because things like slavery and Jim Crow era 23 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: segregation basically meant that black students had zero choice, and 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: so HBCUs were founded to give students choice. So lifting 25 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: them up as pioneers of choice is not really the 26 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: best thing to do. It's a historical reimagining to sort 27 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: of back up her preference for now in today's era, 28 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: having more charter schools around for students to apparently have choice. Now, 29 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: we can't get into that issue today because it is 30 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: a thorny one. So put a bookmark in charter schools 31 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: later conversation. But um, I think today is a great 32 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: opportunity for us to under stand and unpack the historical 33 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: role of HBCUs, how they relate to gender, and their 34 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: relevance still today. Totally so HBCUs they are super relevant. UM, 35 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: A lot of people who a lot of non black 36 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: people who don't really have um an intimate similiarity with them. 37 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: A lot of times their first jury point into HBCUs 38 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: is a very very good show no longer on TV, 39 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: but was a big staple in my household called a 40 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: Different World, UM that took place in a fictional HBCU 41 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: in Virginia, which was a mixture of two real hbcusum, 42 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: Howard University in d C and Spellman University in Atlanta, 43 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: which is a women's college. Um. And a lot of 44 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: folks know, you know, that's their first foray into what 45 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: an HBCUs. There was a nineties spinoff, right it was. 46 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: It was a spinoff of the Cosby Show. Although fu 47 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: Bill Cosby right again, bookmark of that one for later definitely. Um, 48 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: but no, it's it's a good thing for I think 49 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: older Milan Nails like ourselves that we might have first 50 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: stumbled upon that, um, that terminology. But bridget what is 51 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: a historically black college and university exactly? So an HPCU 52 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 1: is pretty much exactly what it sounds like. They're the 53 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: only institutions in the US that were created for the 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: express purpose of educating black citizens, and they were really 55 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: established a few decades after the Civil War until around 56 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four. Many were started with the federal government's 57 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: Freedmen's Bureau with assistance from whites, primarily abolitionist missionaries and 58 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 1: northern philanthropists who either wanted to christianize blacks and turn 59 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: them into you know, very religious people or train them 60 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: for industrial enterprises. UM. And so you really see a 61 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: lot of HBCUs being connected with religion UM or some 62 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: sort of a philanthropic mission. And so today we have 63 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: around a hundred and seven HBCUs in the US and 64 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: the virgin Islands. UM. It's a it's a thing. It's 65 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: a burgeoning thing. UM. Probably the most well known UH 66 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: is Spellman, which is the women's college in Atlanta. It's 67 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: usually the number one in the rankings. UM. Other big 68 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: well known HBCUs or Howard University here in d C. 69 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: At Hampton University which is in Virginia, which is where 70 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: my brother went. UM North Carolina A and T University 71 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: in North Carolina. Awesome. And I think it's important to 72 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: note that while those colleges and universities were historically created 73 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: in an era when Black Americans were not were barred 74 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: were legally barred from entering higher institutions of higher education elsewhere, 75 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: today people of all races are attending historically black colleges 76 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: and universities as well. So, according to Pew the Pew 77 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: Center for Research, the percentage of HBCU students who were 78 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: either white, Hispanic Asian or Pacific Island or Native American 79 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: was seventeen percent in two thousand fifteen, up from in 80 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: nine eighty. Hispanic students in particular seem to be finding 81 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: a new appeal, I would say, in the historically black 82 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: college and universities, because they, in particular Hispanics have seen 83 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: their overall shares grow on HBCU campuses, increasing from one 84 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: point six to four point six two and fourteen. So 85 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: one of the things I loved UM and teaching at 86 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: Howard for so long was that people would always say, 87 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, are you just is it just black folks 88 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: teaching black students? And there certainly are more black faculty 89 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: and more black students than other places I've taught, but 90 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: it's really just super diverse. So we had lots of 91 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: Latino students, lots of Caribbean students, lots of some white students, UM, 92 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: we had European exchange students. We had really such a 93 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: healthy mix of all different kinds of students who were 94 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: all from different cultures and brought those cultures into the classroom. 95 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: And this really kind of interesting, you know, patchwork of 96 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: class So it's great. I think there's a specific value 97 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: to that environment that attracts a lot of racial minorities 98 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: to these institutions, which I can totally understand as opposed 99 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,679 Speaker 1: to the alternative p w I s which I learned 100 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: through research today. I was like, what the heck is 101 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: a p w I which is a predominantly white institution? 102 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: Is that right? Right? So isn't that like the world 103 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: or at least the United States that we live in? 104 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: And I feel like identifying that and sort of knowing 105 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: what that name really acronym stands for as a healthy 106 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: reminder that, oh, it's not the norm versus the minority. 107 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: There's also a term for p w E s, or 108 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: institutions of higher education that are dominated by white people exactly. UM. 109 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: And so I just for full disclosure, I did not 110 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: attend an HBCU. My my brother did. I applied to 111 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: some that I did not. UM, But some of the 112 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: reasons that folks do choose hbc u s over p 113 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: w I s are pretty much exactly what you think, 114 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: sort of Anecdotally, many students have reported that they want 115 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: to feel a sense of camaraderie with other black students 116 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: and other students of color, UM, and they want the 117 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: chance to feel really supported and understood by you know, 118 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: black professors, professors of color, um black administrators, because they 119 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: feel like they're going to be getting an experience that 120 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: they that they can really kind of connect with, and 121 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: so they're looking for that kind of connection. I mean, 122 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: think about college, it's such an identity forming time in 123 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: a young adults life. Um, for those of you who 124 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: did go to college, not everybody does that. My brother, 125 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: for instance, went straight into the military. But that age 126 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: brange of the average or the sort of typical college 127 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: student eighteen to what that's a really formative time in 128 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: your life to figure out who you are, what you 129 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: believe in, and who you who you want to become. 130 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: So I love this quote from an article on her 131 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: campus from Noel, a former student at Savannah State University, 132 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: which is an hbc where she says, quote, there's like 133 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: a sense of unity. Everyone is so friendly and we're 134 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: all able to kind of come together and share with 135 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: each other the fact that we all know what it's 136 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: like to be black. By attending an HBCU, I was 137 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: able to get an education that was so relevant to 138 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: my life as an African American student. Attending Peter buys 139 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: all my life. It always seemed like it was abnormal 140 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: to learn about my own culture and class, but my 141 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: HBCU normalized this and made me feel like I got 142 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: a more well rounded education. I love the being. That 143 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: quote really sums it all up, and her anecdotal just 144 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: you know, experience of what she felt is completely backed 145 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: up by their research, according to the Journal of Black Psychology. There, 146 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: they did a study all around black students who did 147 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: not grow up around other black people, and they felt 148 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: that they're far more likely to choose schools for race 149 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: related reasons over other reasons like financial or school ranking, 150 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: and that these reasons are totally totally become part of 151 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: their foundational concept of who they are. This is just 152 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: a summary of their findings. A total of a hundred 153 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: nine undergraduate students attending an HBCU completed questionnaires assessing their 154 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: race related reasons for choosing the university and their intention 155 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: to engage in race related activities, as well as individual 156 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: difference measures. Students with less contact with other blacks growing 157 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: up or more central racial identities were more likely to 158 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: cite race related reasons for HBCU college choice. Furthermore, lack 159 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: of contact and higher racial centrality predicted greater intention to 160 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 1: engage in behaviors to develop racial identity e g. Race 161 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: oriented clubs and personal reading. So basically, if you are 162 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: someone who is thirsting for a connection to black culture, 163 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: black life, black identity, that is going to be a 164 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: critical reason why you choose an HBCU, even when measured 165 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: up against things like how expensive the college is or 166 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: how well the college is ranked in the rankings. I 167 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: think all of us, at one point or another have 168 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 1: experienced what it feels like to be other in one 169 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: room or another. Imagine living your entire childhood feeling like 170 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: the only kid of a certain race or one of 171 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: very few in your whole community. Then to go on 172 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: to college and have the opportunity to really discover who 173 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,599 Speaker 1: you are, not in a minority environment, but you know, 174 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: in a place where who you are is normalized. That's 175 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: such a value luable thing. And it reminds me actually 176 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: of um Barack Obama's book Dreams of My Father, which 177 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: is all about an identity quest. Okay, the whole book 178 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: is like a young Barack Obama recently graduated, figuring out 179 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: who he is by sort of exploring the lives of 180 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: his of his ancestors and I believe he was. I 181 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: believe he was commissioned to write that book while in 182 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,719 Speaker 1: law school. So it just reminds me of like that 183 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: kind of identity quest that we're thirsting for at different 184 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: times in our lives. How important it must be for 185 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: Black Americans in particular to have an HBCU environment to 186 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: do that in Well, that's exactly right. So according to 187 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: the research, what you're saying is right on the money. 188 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: According to Gallup, black graduates of historically black colleges and 189 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: universities are significantly more likely to have felt supported while 190 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: in college and to be thriving afterwards and their black 191 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: peers who graduated from p wise. According to the newest 192 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: data from an ongoing Gallop per Due University study, the survey, 193 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: which is the largest of its kind, collected data from 194 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,599 Speaker 1: fifty college alumni over two years and an attempt to 195 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: measure their colleges are doing enough to help students well 196 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: being in life after they graduate UM and so really, 197 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: the study did a deep dive on these different elements 198 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: of success financial success, whether they felt supported, whether they 199 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: felt supported in college which is after college, and according 200 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: to this study, UM, they're they're feeling great. The difference 201 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: is real too. I mean, the numbers here are jarring. 202 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: While twenty nine percent of Black graduates who did not 203 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,479 Speaker 1: attend in HBCU said they were quote thriving in financial 204 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: well being, fifty one percent of black HBCU graduates reported 205 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,599 Speaker 1: doing so. So this is two years after college. I 206 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: don't know who was financially thriving two years after college 207 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: because it wasn't me but a girl, But of of 208 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: of Black Americans or Black students who went to HBCU 209 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: said they were compared to only thirty or you know, 210 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: almost thirty percent of students elsewhere. And I think a 211 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: lot of that we're going to unpack the further later. 212 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: But cost at HBCUs is a significant benefit as well. 213 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: If what I'm reading is correct, and and we're going 214 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: to unpack that further, it looks like, um, the tuition 215 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: rates for a top tier education are way lower in across, 216 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: not necessarily in every case, but are pretty affordable at 217 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: HBCUs for the quality of education you're getting. Yeah, I 218 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: think we should definitely dive more into that and some 219 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: of the reasons why these colleges can be so useful. 220 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: After we take a quick break and we're back, and 221 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: let's spend some time talking about why some folks are 222 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: choosing HBCUs Because a lot of people might be asking, 223 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: while it's twenty seventeen, are historically black colleges and universities 224 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: even so needed or relevant? And it's a fair thing 225 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: to ask, Bridget because the numbers have been declining. If 226 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: you look at the percentage of Black students attending college, 227 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: So in all of the Black Americans who were going 228 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: to a degree granting institution, of all of them, about 229 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: seventeen percent we're choosing HBCUs. By two thousand, that share, 230 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: that percentage had declined to percent and in the last 231 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: time that the Pew Research measured this fact, the number 232 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: was down to nine percent. So while it looks like 233 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: the percentage has definitely shifted over time, I want to 234 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: highlight that the number of people overall attending colleges and universities. 235 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: If you think about the flexibility of online degree granting 236 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: institutions and the kinds of flexible needs for the average 237 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: college student nowadays, it's possible that that percentage is shrinking 238 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: because more African American students are going to college overall. Yeah, 239 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: and think about the different opportunities that that black folkses 240 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: didn't have before. Right, So exactly if you have more opportunities, 241 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: more more chances to go to different kinds of school, 242 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: did you want to say school choice, more skilled choice, Bridge, 243 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: that's a topic. I'll talk a girl you don't even know. 244 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: I think Bridget just said she's pro school choice. Okay, 245 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: sorry I interrupted you, but I had to call that 246 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: was that was? And so it's it's cool to see 247 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: these numbers, even though they're declining overall. It's cool to 248 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: see that enrollment in hbc IS actually has risen. Right, 249 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: So the percentages have gone down, but that can be 250 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: a really misleading fact that's used to discredit the relevance 251 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: of HBCU. So don't let those percentages be used to 252 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: mislead you, because in reality, enrollment at HBCUs, including enrollment 253 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: from non black students, has risen overall. So the n 254 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: c e S figures have shown that in the fall 255 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: of two thousan fifteen, the combined total enrollment of all 256 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: HBCUs was two hundred thousand, compared with only two hundred 257 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: and thirty four thousand and nineteen eighty. There's also some 258 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: new findings that historically black colleges and universities have seen 259 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: a spike in enrollment due in part to the Black 260 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: Lives Matter movement and it increased public visibility around racial 261 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: tension in America. Totally. I mean that completely jives with 262 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: what I've seen sort of anecdotally. Um, particularly at Howard 263 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: they are like, if you know anything about Howard, you 264 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: know their students are super, super civically engaged. These are 265 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: the kinds of students when I talked there, that were 266 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: coming up to me at the end of class saying, 267 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: Professor Todd, will you sign our petition to get the 268 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: university to stop using Kimberly Clark brand toilet paper products 269 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: because they found private prisons. You know, stuff that I 270 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: just wasn't doing when I was a student. Oh, I know, 271 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: I missed being called that so much. Sometimes I'll call 272 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: you professor. Sometimes I say that in my head just 273 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: to make myself feel better. Um. But and honestly, you 274 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: remember this being in the news kind of recently. UM. 275 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: I think last year the actress Taraji p Henson, who 276 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: plays Cookie on Empire, she told came forward with the 277 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: story of her son, who I think was that U 278 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: C l A was pulled over and she felt like 279 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: it would have better racial profiling incident. And she said that, 280 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: you know, I don't pay thousands upon thousands of dollars, 281 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: said my son to this great school in l A 282 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: for him to get racially profile, And so she I 283 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: don't know if she ended up actually doing it, but 284 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: she said that she was going to pull him from 285 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: u C. L A and put him into Howard because 286 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: she thought Howard would be a safer place for him. 287 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: And so I cannot speak for whether or not he 288 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: would have a less of a chance having some sort 289 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: of negative police interaction driving around the streets of d 290 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: C versus u C. L A. But that was certainly 291 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: how she felt. So certainly, this, this, this more visibility 292 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: of the movement for black lives has made HBC's you know, 293 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: push them into the forth front in a way like 294 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: they have never been, especially from a parents perspective. I 295 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: think it, you know, I think the police brutality, the 296 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: visibility around police brutality, which has been an issue for 297 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: much longer than uh the mainstream media has made it 298 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: an issue or made it a priority. Um, But I 299 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: think the more we see what's happening, it's totally rational 300 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: for parents to be concerned and to seek out the 301 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: kind of camaraderie that comes with a more diverse community 302 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: on campus. And this is true. The numbers bear this 303 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: out as well. In an article on PBS from October 304 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: twos sixteen, they said that HBCUs we're reporting double digit 305 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: bumps in freshman enrollment at Virginia State Nice they had 306 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: an increase of about thirty percent in one year. In 307 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: Central State University, one of two HBCUs in Ohio had increase. 308 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: North Carolina Shaw, the South's oldest HBCU, which went from 309 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: four to freshmen last year to six hundred this fall, 310 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: and increase of forty nine. So the numbers are up 311 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: for Shore. So you know, we might not we might 312 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: have more choices than we did in Jim Crow era 313 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: America when HBCUs were necessary a necessary part of making 314 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: opportunities for higher education available to African Americans. But that 315 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they don't serve a really critical purpose 316 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: in today's America to completely. So, obviously, a lot of 317 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: folks are still finding hbc is relevant, and I think 318 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: one of the biggest reasons that they are are finding 319 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: them so relevant is cost. H b c US graduate 320 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: more low income students than there than p w I s. 321 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: According to a study from Education Trust that looked at 322 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: m p w I S, which is HBCUs, roughly half 323 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: of the nation's HBCUs have a freshman class where three 324 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: quarters of the students are from low income backgrounds, while 325 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: just one of the six hundred and seventies six non 326 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: HBU studied service high serve as higher percent of low 327 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: income students, which is really something. I mean, if you 328 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: are a student who needs help paying for school, can't 329 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: just you know, write a check to pay for things, 330 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: that might be a reason why an HBCU might be 331 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: something to look at. Absolutely and I love that because HBCUs, 332 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: like Xavier, which we read about in the New York 333 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: Times here, have accomplished providing extremely good numbers in terms 334 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: of producing graduates, specifically black graduates in the stem fields, 335 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: whether it's doctors or physicists or biologists. They've done all 336 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: of this. They've become one of the top four institutions 337 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: graduating black pharmacists, for instance, the third of the nation 338 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: in terms of graduating black graduates who go on to 339 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: earn doctorates and science and engineering. They're basically killing it 340 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,479 Speaker 1: with STEM without a hefty price tag that is typically 341 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: associated with going to a high performing uh STEM school. 342 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: So this is fascinating because their tuition is nineteen eight 343 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: hundred dollars a year, considerably less than that of many 344 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: private colleges and flagship public universities. Even they've done all 345 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: of this without expansive high tech facilities because its entire 346 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: science program is actually housed in a single complex, which 347 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: blows my mind. I love that, and I also love 348 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: the they aren't you know, you might be thinking, well, 349 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: they're getting the kids who have been groomed to go 350 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: to college their whole lives. That's actually not true. Um, 351 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: Most of Xavier students are the first in their families 352 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: to attend college, and more than half of them come 353 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: from lower income homes. They really accomplished this, this really 354 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: incredible feat of turning out the next generation of black physicists, 355 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, doctors, um. And really you know, six pc 356 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: of all black positions and half of all black engineers 357 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: graduate from HBCU. So HBCUs are really foundational and building 358 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: this you know black middle class. Yeah, especially when it 359 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: comes to the STEM fields, which we now are so 360 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: important for class mobility. Right now, in this historical moment 361 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: of our economy totally. Um. I was really excited at Howard. 362 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: One of my students, UM was going to dental school 363 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: and I wrote him his recommendation to get into Howard 364 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: Central School. And I always said, when you become the dentist, 365 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: you've got to give me all freed tour for life, right, 366 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: hook you up with some something fancy. I'm gonna have 367 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, solid gold teams Grill can we can we 368 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: call him? I would like that. Actually, I think we 369 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 1: can fit sm and Dow. Why there we go? Yeah, 370 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: I see it already, all right, So I want to 371 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:15,239 Speaker 1: really dive into how HBCUs interact with or intersect one 372 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: might say, with gender. But I think we should maybe 373 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: take a quick break, and because there's a lot more 374 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: to talk about where that comes from. Thanks for listening. 375 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this quick break. And we're back, 376 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: and we have loved talking about all the ways in 377 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: which HBCUs are wonderful and are killing it and are 378 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: just great. But this is stuff Mom never told you, 379 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: and it wouldn't really be our podcast if we weren't 380 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: getting slightly enraged on occasion. So here we are. We 381 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: got to talk about gender on historically black colleges and 382 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: university's campuses because like most things around intersectionality, the intersection 383 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: of race and gender and how that plays out at 384 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: HBCUs is quite complicated, very complicated. So one thing to 385 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: know is that on most campuses of HBCUs there's more 386 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: women than men. Um sixty one point five percent of 387 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: HBCU students identified as female. But that doesn't mean that 388 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: this is all a rosy picture and there's not gender issues. 389 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: Quite the opposite. Actually, the way that gender issues play 390 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: out on HBCU campuses can be pretty toxic. So I'm 391 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: not saying this because I want to um paint the 392 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: picture that high profile incidents of sexual assault on campuses 393 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: means that they're happening, but there's I'm not trying to 394 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: paint a portrait. I just think it needs to be 395 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: lifted that a lot of HBCU students go there because 396 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: they are looking for a certain kind of positive experience. 397 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: They're looking for a particular and specific experience around their 398 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: culture and identity, and they get to campus and find 399 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: that because of gender issues and because of gen to intersections, 400 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: that do not get that experience, and by they we're 401 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: talking pretty pretty focused here on black women. So living 402 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: again at that intersection of race and gender, being a 403 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: black woman here again is an especially challenging thing because 404 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: instead of that safe space that is afforded to black 405 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: men on HBCUs, which is part of the reason people 406 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: go to HBCUs, women have faced this very challenging dichotomy 407 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,719 Speaker 1: one that racial identity, that camaraderie one might even call 408 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: its sisterhood or brotherhood with those of your sort of 409 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: minority race becoming sort of a majority is one thing. 410 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: But what happens when uh, sexual assault is running rampant 411 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 1: on campus, as I might add, is happening on almost 412 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: every campus nationwide, Like there are very few opportunities and 413 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: we should We definitely have plans in the works to 414 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: talk more about sexual assault on campus UM, but at 415 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: hbc U S it's especially complex. It is especially complex, 416 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: and I think that this is illustrated so so well 417 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: in this BuzzFeed deep dive that's really a must read 418 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: um that was published back in January of two thousand 419 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: and sixteen by Anita Bade Joe Um and really it 420 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: points out the ways that on one college campus or 421 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: to college campuses more House and and Spellman in Atlanta. 422 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: This is all kind of playing out in these really 423 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: toxic ways. But basically, the women at Spellman College have 424 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: been complaining about the men of more House College, which 425 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: is there, uh they have a brother sister school relationship 426 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: but official but unofficial but understood. They've been complaining about 427 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: sexual assaults happening by the students that they're quote brothers school. Um. 428 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,239 Speaker 1: And really, these these complaints have been going on heard right, 429 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: it's so trouble. Illegal assaults have been going unprosecuted and 430 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: oftentimes end up not just being like not not only 431 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: is the administration silencing its victims, but I think that 432 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: the headline here says it so well. The headline of 433 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: Buzzbeeds article is quote, our hands are tied because of 434 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: this damn brother sisterhood thing. So Spellman College says, oh, 435 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: it happened on more Houses campus, we can't do anything 436 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: about it, which to me is not okay, not valid 437 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: from the start. And then in some of the cases 438 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: unpacked in this really chilling expose a trigger warning. By 439 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: the way, we should probably have said a while ago. 440 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: But this is where it gets even more. I think 441 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: triggering after dealing with a rape someone here named just 442 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: by her first name, Melanie, who's profiled at the start 443 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: of this article. She was told that an independent investigator 444 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: based in Massachusetts, which is far away is away from 445 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: where this all went down in Atlanta, who without ever 446 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: meeting her in person, had come to the conclusion that 447 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: she had not, in fact been raped, despite the fact 448 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: that both parties agreed Melanie had said quote no repeatedly. 449 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: Later she learned that the college also classified her reported 450 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: rape as a case of simple battery. And so this 451 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: is a small example of a macro level problem that's 452 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: gone unheard, undealt with, unresolved From the administration standpoint, this 453 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: all sort of came to a head when Vice President 454 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: or former Vice President Joe Biden was on his It's 455 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: on Us tour. It's on Us is the institution of 456 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: the effort started under the Obama administration to engage men 457 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: in the conversation around consent and preventing sexual assault and rape. 458 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: He came to speak on the campuses of more House 459 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: and Spellmen together, and this was to an audience of 460 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: women who many of whom are survivors of assault who 461 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: reported their assaults but have been left to wrestle quote 462 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: not only with a campus adjudication process that felt didn't 463 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: serve them justice, but also with a deep guilt for 464 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: having turned in one of their more House brothers. And 465 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: that's a really good example of how the intersection of 466 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: race really makes this such a tricky issue. Um So, 467 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: after Biden spoke, a more House student reportedly circulated this 468 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: really disgusting, viral kind of foulk contract that he called 469 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: quote a whole contract and so it's like a handwritten thing. 470 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: You can find it on Twitter. He wrote, I, you 471 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: know the insert name here, allow Graves residents, you know, 472 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: insert male name here in room blah blah blah to 473 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: perform any and all sexual behavior on me from the 474 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: time I walk in. Then you put the time till 475 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: the time I leave and visitation is over. By signing this, 476 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: I will not spread misleading truths and or ignorant laws. 477 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: If found in violation of this consent form, I blank 478 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: will be indicted and prosecuted accordingly, as well as be 479 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: exposed on campus as a lying bitch. You see bitch? 480 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 1: Sure in this context, I mean that's their words, image 481 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: and integrity. It's value highly at more House, especially Graves Hall. 482 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: By signing this I name here and I name here 483 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: are keeping both um And that's really I mean, did 484 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: he learn nothing at that this was my brother or son, 485 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: I would be I would, I would just wonder where 486 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: it all went wrong. And so you can really see 487 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: I think what that what that contract really raises is 488 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: the way that perhaps a lot of more House students 489 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: feel as though women who report sexual assauce, report rapes 490 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: call out troubling, toxic behavior on the part of men. 491 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: They feel as though they are violating the integrity of 492 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: the more House spellman sort of ecosystem that they're that 493 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: they're bucking that tradition. And you can really see the 494 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: ways that that holding onto that tradition can be a 495 00:28:54,720 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: kind of a kind of way of shrugging off really harmful, 496 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: dangerous behavior on the part of these men. Well, it 497 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: also presumes that these women are lying totally. So you're 498 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: a liar. You're dragging some elite male reputation through the dirt. 499 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: How dare you when we're here to lift each other up. 500 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: That's really the thing, right, It's like you gotta be there. 501 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: You gotta have each other's backs, uh, in a world 502 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: that doesn't have our backs collectively based on race. You're 503 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: going to drag me through the mud because of what 504 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: you think was a rape. I get that defensiveness. It's horrifying. 505 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: The rationale is disgusting and warped, but it totally doesn't 506 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: understand obviously, what consent us all about. And um and 507 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, I just putting black women in that 508 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: position of feeling like reporting a rape means ruining the 509 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: reputation of the next potential Barack Obama, And I think, 510 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's why I have personally felt that before. 511 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: I think a lot of black women have spoken up 512 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: about feeling that way that you know, we live in 513 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: a society where black men, black people in general, but 514 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: black men are you know, it's kind of set up 515 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: to fail in society. Wants to see them go down 516 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: in society. You know, it's set up to treat them badly, 517 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: And so you don't want to feel like another person 518 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: adding onto that, so I can definitely understand that, but 519 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: that's no reason to not report an assault, not report rape, 520 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: not call out some really harmful toxic behavior. Yeah, And 521 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 1: adding on to that, it's it's this notion that you're 522 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: living in a world that already assumes black men are 523 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: are violently for this, like black male raping the white woman, 524 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: saying that has historically been around. You don't want to 525 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: perpetuate that. But that's you know, that's not a reason 526 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: to not report what's happened to really, So just some 527 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: stats about, um, what's going down with the sexual assaults 528 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: on campuses HBCUs versus p wise. So there actually are 529 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: less instances of sexual assault reported on HBCUs when compared 530 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: to pwise. But that's that is actually kind of misleading 531 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: because black women, I think, for a lot of the 532 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: reasons we were just unpacking, are less likely to report 533 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: actual thoughts than their white counterparts. In general. Um, yeah, 534 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: only seventeen percent of black women report instances of sexual 535 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: assault to the police, as opposed to forty four percent 536 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: of white women. So either there is a significant difference 537 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: in who's being raped, or more likely, there's a significant 538 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: difference between who feels comfortable or privileged enough to go 539 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: to the police and be taken seriously or entitled to 540 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: a police officer who's going to take their their um 541 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: their crime seriously. And this is an issue that specifically 542 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: at Spellman and more House goes back decades, Spellman student 543 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: reported being gang raped by four more House students, which 544 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: spawned some tough talk at more House. Again, a lot 545 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: of talk here, not a lot of action that we've 546 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: seen about the unacceptability of abusing women. Yet at the 547 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: same time, there was also vocal, overwhelming support on campus 548 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: for the men, including one suggest shin from a chapel 549 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: dean during a worship service that quote, women bring abuse 550 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: upon themselves because of their attitudes and their dress. That's 551 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: so disgusting and regressive and toxic. I mean, I can't 552 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: even imagine if my if if a dean sort in 553 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: front of my student body and said that, I would 554 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: have probably burst into tears. But I would have been 555 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: so angry. I would have been, I mean, storm out. 556 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: That's but who I mean, who knows he's in a 557 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: position of power there. That's that's sort of the leadership. 558 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: That's a reflection of the leadership at more House completely, 559 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: and obviously this was so we can only hope that 560 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: things have changed there. Um, anyone who knows someone or 561 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: goes to more House please tell us how things have changed. Hopefully, 562 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: But this is an issue that seems to be lasting 563 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: at Spellman and more House in particular, and the same 564 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: challenges are faced by lots of different students on HBCU campuses. Yeah, 565 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: and I just think that you really going back to 566 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: this idea that it's Spellman, black women are really expected 567 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: to support quote unquote their brothers quote unquote, even if 568 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: they're toxic, abusive, whatever. Um. This is another quote from 569 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: the BuzzFeed article. At Spellman, students must ballist balance the 570 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: empowerment that comes from being on a campus full of 571 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: young black women with the expectation that they nevertheless must 572 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: align themselves with the interest of their brothers next door. 573 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: One thing about Spellman that has to be made clear 574 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: is that it's a woman's college, but it is not 575 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: a feminist college. And this is a quote from the 576 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: an associate director of a women's research organization on campus 577 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: at Spellman. And I think that is so troubling, like 578 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: as a woman, as a black woman, thinking that you're 579 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: going to get this, this community of black women to 580 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: support you, and then getting the campus and finding oh, actually, 581 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: your well being is far less important than the well 582 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: being of our our elite, the elite black men that 583 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: we are that we are trying to turn out and 584 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: in fact, this is internalized in a lot of Spellman 585 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: students too. I found it really troubling to hear that 586 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: the Spellman two thousand fifteen Valedictorians said when describing the 587 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: archetypical Spellman woman to BuzzFeed News, she said, she's middle class, 588 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: she's Southern, she has good manners, she's heterosexual, She's not 589 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: deviant in any way. You know, this sort of regressive, 590 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: hyper religious undertones of what it means to be a 591 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: good proper woman is alive and well in a lot 592 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: of these campuses. Yeah. I mean, if you take that further, 593 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: I have to know that Spellman has a bit of 594 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: an an unofficial dress code for official events. Um pants 595 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: are you can wear pants, but it's frowned upon pearls 596 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: are you know, encouraged And I think, you know, when 597 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: I read this quote of the of the typical Spellman woman, 598 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: this is I feel like, I feel like I know 599 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: this girl. I know this woman. I know the southern, 600 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, refined, middle class, wearing pearls, heterosexual, very important, 601 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: and no deviant behavior of any kind. And you're just 602 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I know this woman. I tried 603 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: to be this way for a while, but I'm not. 604 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: I'm none of those things that way. Yeah no, but 605 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: this is Coco from Deer White People. It is this 606 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: is totally Coco ak Calandria from Deer White People, which 607 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: kept coming to mind as we discuss these different archetypical 608 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: identities of being black on campus. Um I would love 609 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: to unpack Dear White People at some point too, because man, 610 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: I love that movie. First of all, it was amazing. 611 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 1: I saw the movie and the show me too. I'm obsessed. 612 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: You should all go watch it, so listen. I'm not 613 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: trying to paint HBCUs with hotbeds of campus sexual assaults. 614 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: I just think it's very telling that black women who 615 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: attend HBCUs they come looking for community and safety and 616 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: they realize that's not what they've gotten, oftentimes too late. 617 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: I found this quote from the BuzzFeed article to be 618 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: really telling. I think that that's that's the travesty, that 619 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: you have black women and men applying and going to 620 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: HBCUs believing they're going to be safe, but they're really 621 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: only honestly thinking about racism. And this is a quote 622 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: from Aisha Sentence, who was a visiting scholar from the 623 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania and a filmmaker who's documentary No focused 624 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: on black female rape survivors and even to extended beyond 625 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: the experience of students at HBCUs. That same dynamic between 626 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: men women and black men and black women seems to 627 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: be replicating itself on the administrative level, because there really 628 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: aren't very many female HBCU presidents, which is troubling because 629 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: if we had more women in charge. Quite frankly, I 630 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: think that might lead to a better representation of the 631 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: issues that women on HBCUs are facing. But more House 632 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: College President John Wilson has been dogged by rumors and 633 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: calls for his termination for more than two years, yet 634 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: he remains in place with cursory affirmations of support from 635 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,919 Speaker 1: board and alumni officers without any detail about how he's 636 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: earned it. But women, on the other hand, in HBCU 637 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: presidencies have not received the same opportunity to get it 638 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: wrong and to learn how to get it right again. 639 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: We're up against that sort of glass cliff of you 640 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: can't mess up at work the same way. UH. Male 641 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: in the same position is given UH the opportunity to 642 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: redeem himself. Women, on the other hand, are told to 643 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 1: get out. Now. This isn't to say that women don't 644 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: earn the right to be fired, as is written by 645 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: Crystal uh Di Gregory and Jared Carter Sr. On HBCU 646 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: buzz on medium dot com. But really it's not saying 647 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: that women haven't earned the right to be fired or 648 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,760 Speaker 1: haven't have earned the right to be judged with fewer 649 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: or soften metrics of success against their male counterparts. It 650 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: is to say that HBCUs are in no position collectively 651 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: to brand women as executive failures worthy of quick removal, 652 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: while men can stick it out for a more appropriate 653 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: time and approach. So this problem, this gender problem that 654 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: is playing out when it comes to campus sexual assault, 655 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: is replicating itself when it comes to leadership, and obviously 656 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: women in leadership across industries and across colleges run into 657 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: the similar problems. But I think it would behoove a 658 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: brave HBCU to really take an active role in recruiting 659 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: and developing more female leadership to make a safer environment 660 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: for the female students on campus. Totally, I mean, I 661 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. I also found it really interesting that 662 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: there's only two women studies programs at all of the 663 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: HBC is in the United States of Bellman and bit 664 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: at college, and yeah, it just shows the ways that 665 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: this toxic gender stuff can really be a top down thing, 666 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: and it's not. It doesn't. I agree, it doesn't necessarily 667 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: start with the students. It can start at the higher 668 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: levels of the administration. And unfortunately, as we talk about 669 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: higher levels of administration, sadly we must indeed utter his 670 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: name on this podcast once more. Donald Trump has something 671 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: to do with HBCUs nowadays, doesn't he? Bridget First of all, 672 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: you may have seen that really weird picture. It was 673 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: a photo shoot where Kelly and Conway is sitting on 674 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: the couch with her shoes off, with her feet underneath her, 675 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: her body really strange, had a bigger deal out of her. 676 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 1: I felt bad for her, but that's a different episode. 677 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: Like maybe we shouldn't judge her so much in this photo. 678 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,760 Speaker 1: But I mean it was awkward, like it was respect 679 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: the office kind of awkward, but not like, yeah, I didn't, 680 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 1: please don't call her her like dirty slurs sitting that 681 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: way with the shorts. Of course, of course, of course, 682 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: it just was like the picture was awkward. I'll put 683 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 1: it that. I think the picture was awkward before she 684 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: was even in it. If she wasn't even in it, 685 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: I feel like that whole that from that picture, that 686 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: whole day sy heard why did this happen? Bridget helped 687 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: me understand this. One of the things Donald Trump when 688 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 1: he first got into office, he was very very vocal 689 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: about the fact that he thought, you know, the Obama 690 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: administration really failed hpc USE and all of this, and 691 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: he vowed to turn it all around. He said, I'm 692 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: gonna do things dif really this is appalling. So so 693 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: we gather as all these HBCU presidents in the room, 694 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: they're told they're going to be able to, you know, 695 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: have the president's here, and the president cares so much 696 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 1: about this issue. In YadA YadA, YadA, they all basically 697 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 1: reported they didn't really get to talk that much. That 698 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: they said at most, you know, two minutes to the president. 699 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,399 Speaker 1: And what's interesting is that after all that m grand 700 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: standing about how he was going to be better for 701 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: HBCUs than President Obama was, his America First Budget actually 702 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: slices the federal education spending for HBCUs by thirteen point 703 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,720 Speaker 1: five per cent, and it also claims to maintain quote 704 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: unquote funding for minority institutions and HBCUs at around four 705 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: million dollars, but that's the exact same amount that the 706 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,399 Speaker 1: previous administrations initially budgeted. So he made this whole big 707 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: show about how he was going to, you know, do 708 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: right by HBCUs and then and be better than than 709 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: the Obama administration was, but then totally didn't. And so 710 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: these HBCU leaders were vocally like pretty disappointed by this, 711 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: of course, and it seems so like such a press 712 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: ploy to just have him in the White House early on. 713 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,720 Speaker 1: Come together, Let's bring people of African American backgrounds together 714 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,240 Speaker 1: into the White House early on to show our support. 715 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 1: And it was just a discussing example of just trying 716 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: to take credit for intentions that I don't even think 717 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: we're well intentioned, you know what I mean, Like they 718 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: weren't coming from a good place to begin with, and 719 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,800 Speaker 1: then furthermore to sort of drag Obama on HBCUs is 720 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: not quite accurate either, because the New America Foundation actually 721 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: estimates that, due to the Obama administration's additional discretionary spending 722 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,720 Speaker 1: that was added to the HBCU figure, that the actual 723 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: sum was around five hundred and seventy seven million, which 724 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,359 Speaker 1: is fifteen more than what Donald Trump is coming in at. 725 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: So he's not even matching what Obama did. He's actually 726 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: giving hbc USE a pay cut. After they came to 727 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: the White House at his invitation to express the need 728 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: for more support because there are ready operating on less 729 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,720 Speaker 1: than what they need. And to add to that, those 730 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: very same leaders that he used basically for a photo 731 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: of a lot of them. After that meeting, they came 732 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: out and said, we feel like we got used. We 733 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: feel like we were used for a photo op, and 734 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 1: we're disappointed with this. And to sort of drive home 735 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: how how disingenuous I feel like his comments on HBCUs were. 736 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: He then went on to suggest that funding for HBCUs 737 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: might even be unconstitutional. He said, according to this article 738 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,320 Speaker 1: on ny mag, Trump suggested that such funding was not 739 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 1: constitutional on the account of allocated benefits quote on the 740 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: basis of race, ethnicity, or gender. So after this big 741 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: production of I'm gonna be so great for hbc USE, 742 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be better than Obama was, he went on 743 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: to be like, wait, do we even need to fund 744 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: you guys? I feel it was so obviously somebody in 745 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 1: the communications offices idea to have this photo happen, and 746 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: then Kelly and Conway, the head of comes accidentally ruined 747 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: the entire news cycle. And then he went back and 748 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 1: let his true colors shine through by saying like, actually, 749 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: let's not fund them at all in the casual, off 750 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,359 Speaker 1: hand way that this man legislates or presidents. I don't 751 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: know what the verb is, but whatever it is, that 752 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: they're not doing it so well. Because just from a 753 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: pure communication standpoint, even if we're able to for a 754 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:27,400 Speaker 1: moment suspend the moral and ethical and like racism qualms 755 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: that are all tied up in that, that's just a 756 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: bad press strategy all around. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like 757 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 1: that's what we get from this administration. Just bad optics, 758 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: bad press, bad tweets. Maybe he'll tweet his way out 759 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: of it. Yes, but let's not talk about Donald Trump anymore. 760 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: It gets me too angry, as you can probably tell, 761 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 1: gets my blood boiling. So, sminty listeners, we want to 762 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,720 Speaker 1: hear from you. Did any of y'all go to HBCUs 763 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: Why if you did not go to an HBCU, why 764 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: not do you work at one? Um? Let us know. 765 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: You want to know your thoughts on HBCUs. Do you 766 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: think they're relevant, have they needed, why or why not? 767 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 1: You can tag us on Instagram at stuff mom Ever 768 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: Told You? You can tweet at us at mom Stuff Podcast, 769 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: or you can email us at mom Stuff at how 770 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com