1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: On this episode of news World, we have a real 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: treat one of the fastest rising stars in the Republican Party, 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: a very principal conservative Senator Holley, a man who hit 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: the ground running because he'd served as Missouri's Attorney general 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: and he understood what it took. He did a great 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: job from a conservative standpoint in beating Democratic incumbent Clare 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: McCaskill in the twenty eighteen election. He has been very 8 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: aggressive in Washington, as he was back when he was 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: attorney general. Tell us a little bit about why you 10 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: got into public life and why you feel so deeply 11 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: about what you're doing. Well, thank you for having me, dude. 12 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: This is a real privlege to be with you. You know. 13 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: I got into politics not very long ago. Twenty sixteen 14 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: was the first time I'd ever run for anything. And 15 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: my background is in constitutional law. I was a constitutional lawyer, 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: particularly focus on the First Amendment. It was a First 17 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: Amendment lawyer, and I'm somebody who believes in the Constitution, 18 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: believes in our founder's vision for our Republic. I became 19 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: a lawyer in fact because of my love for an 20 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: interest in the Constitution, in American history. I love in 21 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: a passion I know that you share, and that's really 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: what brought me to the law and then ultimately to 23 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: run for office, and I did run for Attorney General Missouri, 24 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: and it was my interest in and passion for the 25 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: Constitution and our liberties and that structure of government that 26 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: our framers created that I think is the best, wisest 27 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: government in the history of mankind, that has given us 28 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: the best country in the history of the world, and 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: that now we have the opportunity and the obligation to 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: defend it. And I see that as my role in 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: the United States Senate. And you've done with some of 32 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: the most important issues of our time. And as a result, 33 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: you've just published a new book, The Tyranny of Tech, 34 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: which actually had its own experience of tyranny in dealing 35 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: with your first publisher. Would you talk to us a 36 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: little bit about that. That must have been sort of 37 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: a shock to you. Well, it was a bit of 38 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: a shock because of the dishonesty involved in Simon and 39 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: Schuster was the publisher that commissioned this book. Originally that 40 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: went to me, signed at me under contract to write it, 41 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: and I did do that, and they were delighted with 42 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: the manuscript, and it was finished, and then came January sixth. 43 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: That on January sixth, I filed an objection to the 44 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: state of Pennsylvania as part of the electoral certification process, 45 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: so that we could have a debate about exactly what 46 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: went on in Pennsylvania in terms of their own failure 47 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: to follow their state constitution and then their Supreme Court's 48 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: intervention in the balloting process, which I thought needed to 49 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: be aired out and was worthy of a debate about 50 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: election integrity on the floor of the Senate. First, we 51 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: all know what happened on that day with the riot then, 52 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: and Simon and Schuster bowed to the woke mob on 53 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: the very next day, on January seventh, and canceled the 54 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: book contract and tried to prevent the book for coming 55 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: to publication and saying that I needed to be the platformed. Essentially, 56 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: they blamed me, at least in part for the riot, 57 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: which of course is a total and complete lie, which 58 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: and they, by the way, they I think they know 59 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: it's a complete lie. Anybody who was watching knew it 60 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: was a lie. But it was too good of an 61 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: opportunity for the left to pass up to try and 62 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: silence those who had opposed them and who represent a 63 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: threat to them. Of course, that's half the country, seventy 64 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: five million Americans. So that was my experience with the 65 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: woke mob cancel culture. And I'm just glad knute that 66 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: there are independent publishers left in this country who believe 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: in free speech and who are willing actually to publish 68 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: books and let the American people decide. So Regnery Press 69 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: picked up the book and it's out now and people 70 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: can buy it and read it for themselves. I had 71 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: a long relationship with Reaganery. I found them all to 72 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: be everyone there was principled, they were conservative, they were courageous. 73 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: It's very typical of them that they would reach out 74 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: because it also, frankly, I say this as an author, 75 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: it's a great for them because they now get a 76 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: great book from a national leader and it gives them 77 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: an increased niche that historically would have belonged to one 78 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: of the bigger publishing companies. But let me go a 79 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: step further, goes I think you really picked a topic 80 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: to focus on that is at the heart of our freedom, 81 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: and that's this whole issue of the First Amendment, the 82 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: right of free speech, the right of religious liberty where 83 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: you've been involved. You were a lead attorney in the 84 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: Hobby Lobby case, which was a major case involving religious liberty. 85 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: You were deeply involved in the Hosanna taborcase, which also 86 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: protected religious liberty. Would you describe the scale of the 87 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: threat you see to freedom of religion or America. I 88 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: think it is a growing threat. It is an extremely 89 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: dangerous and imminent threat. This it used to be. As 90 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: you well remember, religious liberty used to be a bipartisan consensus. 91 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: And the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which was adopted by 92 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: both Houses of Congress and signed by President Clinton. President 93 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: Clinton at one time describe that as one of his 94 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: proudest achievements. These days, the Democrats can't wait to repeal 95 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: the Religious Freedom Restoration Act and to clamp down on 96 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: any sort of religious speech, religious practice, religious expression that 97 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: they disagree with. I have sat in hearings of the 98 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee listening to Democrats describe the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, 99 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: which is a very basic protections. I mean, but it 100 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: basically does is just reiterates the constitutional rule that government 101 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: cannot burden religious faith without a showing that it is 102 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: absolutely necessary. It's got to survive what's called strict scrutiny. 103 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: And now the Democrats say that that is too pro religion. 104 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: In fact, they go further that. They now say that 105 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: it's racist, and it's bigoted, it's homophobic, and so on 106 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: and so forth. Nothing can be further from the truth. 107 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: And that illustrates the disintegration of the bipartisan consensus, which 108 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: is really just the Left walking away from religious liberty. 109 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: And we've seen this in the attacks on Little Sisters 110 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: of the Poor, for instance, at the Obama administration, and 111 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: now this administration is reviving it. We're trying to force 112 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: a religious organizations, churches, believers to violate their deeply held 113 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: beliefs about abortion and other issues. You're seeing it in 114 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: attacks on religious adoption services, demanding that they give up 115 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: their religious teachings in order to participate and be able 116 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: to place adopted kids with families. You're seeing it in 117 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: the attack on bakers and other artists who say that 118 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: they can, in good conscience, for instance, bakecakes for same 119 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: sex weddings. It goes on and on and on the 120 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: left no longer recognizes religious conscience as a valid source 121 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: of principle or as a valid source of speech, and 122 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: they're trying to steamroll it. And this is for a 123 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: country that was founded on religious liberty. This is a 124 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: very very dangerous time, and it's imperative that conservatives take 125 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: our stand on the First Amendment and bond the right 126 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: of conscience and defend it. You know, it struck me, 127 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: and I'd like to get your reaction, because with your 128 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: background at Stanford and at Yale Law, you know a 129 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: lot more about this than I do. It. The so 130 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: called Equality Act that they're trying to pass actually ought 131 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: to be called the Superiority Act, because it seems to 132 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: me they're saying that there are values superior to our 133 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: relationship with God and that our religious liberties should be 134 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: subordinated to other values, many of them involving sexual identity. 135 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that almost a complete reversal of how 136 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: America was created? That is a complete reversal. It represents 137 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: the government telling religious believers and people of faith of 138 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: whatever background, by the way, but telling them what religious 139 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: beliefs are acceptable, what aren't acceptable, what will be allowed 140 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: in the public square, what won't be allowed in the 141 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: public square. And to get down to brass tax, the 142 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: Equality Act would essentially close every Christian college and university 143 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: of America because it would say that no federal funding 144 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: can flow in any form, in any way to any 145 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: religious college or university that does not adhere to the 146 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: left's view about marriage, about gender, about sexuality, and on 147 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: right on down the line. And when I say no 148 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: federal funding, I'm not talking about direct money, even things 149 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: like pell grants. The universities colleges wouldn't be able to 150 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: accept students who are using pell grants to go to college. 151 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 1: So it is a very deliberate attack on religious faith, 152 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: on religious institutions, and attempt again to describe and prescribe 153 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: what can be said in public, what religious views are 154 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: acceptable in public and which aren't. And I love that 155 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 1: saying that. I've heard you so many times that it's 156 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: America didn't invent religious liberty. Religious liberty invented America. That 157 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: is really true. But I think the left no longer 158 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: understands that in that context. You ride the elevator, you're 159 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: on the floor of the Senate, you're talking with these people, 160 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: what do you think drives all this? It is such 161 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 1: a radical break from everything we've known in the first 162 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty five years of America, and it 163 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: seems to be pervasive across the board and infecting virtually everything. 164 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: What do you think is behind that? I think that 165 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: the secular progressivism that has really become a religion of 166 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: its own, has really captured the left, captured the imaginations 167 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: of leaders on the left. And when I say the 168 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: left of thinking about the elite group, the sort of 169 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: leadership class on the left. I don't think this is 170 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: true of voters by and large, but I think in 171 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: the leadership class of elite the secular progressivesm has really 172 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: really captured not just their attention but their imagination, and 173 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: it's become its own form of faith. It is very 174 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: hostile to religious faith, it is very hostile to the 175 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: constitutional principles the country was founded on, and as we're seeing, 176 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: of course, it's very hostile to free speech as well. 177 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: But I really think that that is what is driving 178 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: forward the left's agenda here, and I honestly think that 179 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: more and more members of Congress, certainly the democratic members 180 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: of the state, I think they subscribe to this. I 181 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: think that they are basically driven now by a form 182 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: of secular progressivism that is at the base of their agenda. 183 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: Along this line about free speech. I mean, this was 184 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: a big week to talk about this because Facebook so 185 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: called oversight board decided that they would suspend former President Trump, 186 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: who did get seventy five million votes. What's your reaction 187 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: to these doligarchs and their giant social media companies and 188 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: their decision that they can basically censor anybody they want to, 189 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: no matter who they are or how many boots they get. 190 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: I think it's incredibly dangerous, and I think what it reflects, 191 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: the power that it reflects, the monopoly power that it reflects, 192 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: is incredibly dangerous, and I hope is a big wake 193 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: up call for anybody who wasn't already paying attention. Now 194 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: is the time to sit up and pay attention to 195 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: do something about it. Our framers understood, and this is 196 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: part of why I wrote the book that monopoly and 197 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: liberty don't go together. So as somebody who considers himself 198 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: a free market conservative, someone who believes in capitalism, these 199 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: concentrations of power in these monopoly companies is dangerous to 200 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: the free market. Fact is destructive to the free market. 201 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: One of the big problems we have now is we 202 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: don't have real competition when it comes to these big 203 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: tech platforms. President Trump, as you mentioned, now kicked off 204 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: of Twitter and Facebook. Where can he go answer nowhere? 205 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: I mean he has to sort of invent his own platform, 206 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: which he's trying to do now, because there is no 207 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: viable alternative. Why isn't there Because there's no real competition 208 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: because these companies are monopolies. So for those of us 209 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: who are free market conservatives and believe in competition, I 210 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: think that this makes it very clear that we need 211 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: to act in order to restore competition in these markets. 212 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: But even more fundamentally, those of us who believe in liberty, 213 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: in individual liberty, in the right of Americans to control 214 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: their own lives, to make their own decisions for themselves 215 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,479 Speaker 1: or their families. The idea that these monopoly companies, these oligarchs, 216 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: as you rightly put it, would tell us what we 217 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: could say, would tell us who we can speak to, 218 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: would take our personal information from us and use it 219 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: without our permission. All of that should be anathema and 220 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: it should be a wake up call that it's time 221 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: to act. So from your perspective, what would a solution 222 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: look like? My view is that we could do a 223 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: couple of things. I put forward several different proposals in 224 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: the book, but here's where I would start. The first 225 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: thing I would do is I would break up the 226 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: tech companies and buy that. I would start with their 227 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: consolidation of multiple different industries under one firm, sort of 228 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: what used to be called conglomerate mergers, which these companies 229 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: have engaged in aggressively. And here's what I mean by that. Amazon, 230 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: for example, has the largest e commerce platform in the world. 231 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: Everybody's familiar with that. They also own a big chunk 232 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: of the cloud, if not the dominant chunk, in Amazon 233 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: Web Services AWS. I don't think they should be allowed 234 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: to own both at once. I think, given their market 235 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: concentration in both spheres, combining them together is anti competitive. 236 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: You can say the same thing about Facebook with Instagram 237 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: and WhatsApp. Those are two companies Facebook purchased, didn't develop them, 238 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: purchase them in order to forestall competition. I think they 239 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: should have to spend those off Google. Google has the 240 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly dominant search engine in the world. Google also owns 241 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: digital advertising. If you want to advertise anywhere digitally in 242 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: this country or in the world, you have to go 243 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: through Google. They have a monopoly in digital advertising. Those 244 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: that two things I think should be broken up. They 245 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: shouldn't be able to do both at once. So that's 246 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: where I would start in terms of breaking up the companies. 247 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: And then I would say I would give individuals the 248 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: right to sue these companies if the companies violate their 249 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: terms of service and engage in censorship that is not 250 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: in good faith. Right now, you can't see them. They're 251 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: protected by federal law. I'd let Americans go to court. 252 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: I was struck when The New York Post was censored 253 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: two or three weeks before the election. I was struck 254 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: there should have been a right to sue at that 255 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: point because they were doing economic harm for political reasons, 256 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: but nonetheless they were doing economic harm to the New 257 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: York Post, which had to rely on them almost as 258 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: monopoly common characters. Yeah, that's exactly right. And one of 259 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: the perverse things about the power that these companies have 260 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: now is that they force us to agree to terms 261 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: of service. When you sign up, open your Facebook account, 262 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: get a Twitter profile, and there's a terms of service. 263 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: You agree to it. But if the companies choose not 264 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: to abide by it, you can't do anything. It's not 265 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: enforceable it's a contract that is not enforceable. The companies 266 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: have all the power, the customer has no power. I 267 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: think we need to redress that balance. And no other 268 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: sphere in our economy or American life is that true. 269 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: And the only reason it's true for these companies is 270 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: the federal government has given them immunity. The federal government 271 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: has intervened and given them a special shield, and I 272 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: think it's time to remove that and allow those terms 273 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: of service contracts to become enforcible. I was doubly struck 274 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: because it's not just a matter of our freedom of speech, 275 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: but there's also a judgment question here. There are at 276 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: least five Chinese Communist Party websites with about one hundred 277 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: and forty six million people, and that's a totalitarian system 278 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: that's currently both the Biden and the Trump administrations have 279 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: said that they're engaged in genocide against the Wagers in 280 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: western China. The Cuban Communist dictatorship has a site on Facebook. Maduro, 281 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: the dictator of Venezuela, has about a million eight hundred 282 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: thousand followers. Putin has two sites on Facebook, and the 283 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: head of the Iranian dictatorship has a site on Facebook. 284 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't understand. Granted left wingism, Granted they 285 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: don't like Donald Trump, I get all that, But why 286 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: they would think it makes sense to silence a former 287 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: American president while keeping the system open for a whole 288 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: series of dictatorships. I really don't get what's going on. 289 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: I don't either. I think it exposes their lack of 290 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: seriousness when they talk about when they hide behind the 291 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: fig leaf of we can't permit there to be disinformation, 292 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: we can't permit there to be fake news out in 293 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: the ether, and anybody who spews that is going to 294 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: be taken down. Set aside for a moment the fact that, 295 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: of course they only apply that label to speech they 296 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: don't like in our country, that just usually meets a 297 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: conservative viewpoint. But when you have actual disinformation, when you 298 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: have actual rhetoric from violent dictatorships, as you've just said, 299 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: they turn a blind eye. They're not concerned about it. 300 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: So I think it shows you that all of that 301 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: is a rhetorical smokescreen for the fact that they have 302 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: a woke leftist outlook. They want to silence conservatives, they 303 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: want to silence those who disagree with them, and they 304 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: are perfectly willing, in fact eager to use their monopoly 305 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: power to do it. And this is why that monopoly 306 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: powers are dangerous. As a historian, I'm in total agrooment 307 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: with you when you describe these oligarchs and their monopolies 308 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: as the equivalent of the robber barons of the nineteenth century. 309 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: But I think for our listeners will be helpful for 310 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: them to hear from you. What are the parallels you're 311 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: drawing here between how we had to deal with large 312 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: concentrations of power from about eighteen seventy one and where 313 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: we find ourselves today. You know, you had there in 314 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century. You had companies for the first 315 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: time in American history, reach a size and scale where 316 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: they could exert tremendous control over the economy as a whole. 317 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: The Railroads did this and its companies like Standard Oil 318 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: as well, so tremendous tremendous amounts of economic control and 319 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: then also political power. And I talk about this in 320 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: the book. The railroads really tried to project their power 321 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: into American politics by influencing state legislators, bribing state legislators. 322 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: They try to bribe members in the the United States Congress 323 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,719 Speaker 1: with some success and so it's really extraordinary the concentrated 324 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: power that they had. And we had a solution to that. 325 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: And when I say we, I mean Republicans. Republican Party 326 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: was the party of trustbusting. We basically invented it as 327 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: a policy tool, and we did it in the name 328 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: of the founders and their vision of rule by the people, 329 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: and we said, we're not going to allow monopolies to 330 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: control our economy and to shut out competition, and we're 331 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: not going to allow monopolies to overrule the people and 332 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: insert their own voices, preferences and power in the place 333 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: of the people's sovereignty. And so that's why we broke 334 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: up the railroad companies, and that's why you got the 335 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: first wave of trustbusting, led largely by Theodore Roosevelt. And 336 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: then also people don't tend to remember at William Howard Taft, 337 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: who had carried on a number large number of antitrust suits. This, 338 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: I think is a legacy we need to recover because 339 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: today these tech companies in particular, although there are other 340 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: major concentrations of power we should be concerned about, but 341 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: the tech companies have even more power than the railroads 342 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: of standard oil could have imagined, because they've got not 343 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: just power over commerce, they've got power over speech, as 344 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: we've been discussing over news, over information journalism. So I 345 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: think they really are the robber barons of the current era, 346 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: and conservatives and Republicans need to remember our history of 347 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: trust busting and say, for the sake of free markets, 348 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: for the sake of competition, and above all, for the 349 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: sake of liberty, we're going to act to disperse this 350 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: concentrated power and make sure that the people's sovereignty is primary. 351 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: You make your point in your book that even among 352 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: Republicans you found real resistance, particularly to trying to get 353 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: Zuckerberg to testify why we're Republicans cautious are unwilling to 354 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: hold these oligarchs to account. Some of it, I think 355 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: is ideological, the sense that in this new context, you know, 356 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: there's always the task of translating our principles and our 357 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: commitments into a new context. And I think for some 358 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: Republicans the idea of breaking up a company, or of 359 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: trust busting any sense, strikes them as interference. They would say, well, 360 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: that sounds like government interference in the market, and we're 361 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: very much against that. And of course The answer to 362 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: that is is that we are absolutely against central planning. 363 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: We are against government picking winners and losers in the economy. 364 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: But we are for competition and we are for free markets. 365 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: And so there are times in American history, and I 366 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: argue that this is one of those times when government 367 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: has to intervene to restore the balance of the free market, 368 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: to restore competition. This is why we have the anti 369 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: monopoly laws that we have. So I think a little 370 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: bit of it is just coming to grips with the 371 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: present circumstances in the power monopoly. The other piece of it, 372 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: knew is that these companies, as you know, are very, 373 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: very influential. They have spent lots of money over years 374 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: purchasing influence in Washington with lobbyists, of course, but also 375 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: with think tanks, also with academics, and that echo chamber 376 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: they've created does have an effect on members of Congress. 377 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: And you know this from your own experience. I mean, 378 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: it's amazing how you can gin up an echo chamber 379 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: and have everybody in the capital believe one thing and 380 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: voters everywhere else know that the opposite is true. And 381 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: I think there's some of that influence with big tech. 382 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: I think Republican members of Congress have heard for so 383 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: long from the echo chamber that, oh, you mustn't interfere 384 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: with big tech, you mustn't challenge big tech. Big tech 385 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: it represents the best of America that it's hard sometimes 386 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: to break out of that and to realize, actually, what 387 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: they're doing is dangerous for liberty and for the free market. 388 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: You've had such a fascinating career, and you've been so 389 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: courageously willing to take on some very, very tough issues. 390 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: I'm just curious, what's your general sense of having served 391 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: in the Senate. Does it meet your expectations? Is it 392 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: better or worse than being Attorney General of Missouri? How 393 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: would you describe it all. Well, it's very different than 394 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: being attorney general. And I have to tell you the 395 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: transition was an interesting one for me because as attorney general, 396 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, I was a prosecutus, the chief law enforcement 397 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: agent of the state, and so with these tech companies, 398 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: for example, I opened the first antitrust investigation of any 399 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: state attorney general in the country of Google and Facebook 400 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: when I was age. And you know that was my 401 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: decision that I got to make. You know, the Senate 402 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: that's not an executive body. There's a lot of talking, 403 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: there's a lot of sitting around and waiting and listening 404 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: in the Senate. I do think that the logistics and 405 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: temperament of the place aside. I do think that the 406 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: Senate right now is in a particularly dysfunctional period in 407 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: its history. The Senate has given away. Congress has given 408 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: away so much of its responsibility to bureaucrats and the 409 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: administrative state and even the executive that I think that 410 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: we're really in danger of the people's elected representatives no 411 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: longer having much of a voice in our government. If 412 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: you want an example of this that I know you 413 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: know all too well. If you look at, for instance, 414 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: the budget. This is the biggest thing Congress does every year. 415 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: It's taxing and spending, arguably the most important thing that 416 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: we do year on year, and at this stage in 417 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: our history, I was surprised to learn that no congressman, woman, 418 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: or senator has any particular influence over that process except 419 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: for the Speaker of the House, the Senate Majority leader, 420 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: the Senate Minority leader, and the President. I mean, it's 421 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: three or four people who really hammer out the details, 422 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: make the decisions, and then you put it to an 423 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: up or down vote, and that's not healthy. By the way, 424 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: I mean, Congress has really become very dysfunctional, and I 425 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: think has given up much, has shirked would be another 426 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: word for that, much of its responsibility to actually legislate, 427 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: to make hard choices, and to govern. And that's not 428 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: good because as a representative institution, that means that the 429 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: people have less and less voice in their government and 430 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: unelected administrators have more and more. Let me ask you 431 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: a one question that's a totally different zone. Because of 432 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: your knowledge both of Missouri and of the law, there 433 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: have been recent reports of apparently extraordinary prosecutorial abuse with 434 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: the District attorney of Saint Louis involving your former governor. 435 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: Has this surprised you from what I've been able to read, 436 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: I'm a non lawyer, but nonetheless, this is extraordinary behavior 437 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: that may well itself turn out to be a series 438 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: of felonies. It is extraordinary behavior. And this is a 439 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: prosecutor who is one of those George Soros backed prosecutors. 440 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: But the left, I will give them credit on this. 441 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: I mean they sell an opportunity with district attorneys in Missouri, 442 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: we call them prosecuting attorneys, and we have one of 443 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: basically every county. They're independently elected, and as Soros in 444 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: Missouri and other places said, what we ought to do 445 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: is go in and fund these prosecutors and then they'll 446 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: make decisions, for instance, about whether or not to charge 447 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: rioters or to charge folks who assault cops. And this 448 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: prosecutor has been just what George Soros would have hoped for. 449 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: In terms of the riots, the terrible riots last year 450 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: that included rights in Saint Louis, Missouri, she basically refused 451 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: to prosecute rioters. I mean she let off dozens and 452 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of violent criminals, violent rioters who the 453 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: police referred to her for prosecution. Wouldn't prosecute them, I 454 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: think probably the whole country members the mccloskeys. This is 455 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: the Saint Louis couple who stood in their own front 456 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: yard with legal firearms and told a mob to get 457 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: off of their front yard, and she prosecuted them. And 458 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: there are allegations that she fabricated or otherwise interfered with 459 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: evidence in that case also, so this is quite a 460 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: train of abuses. The investigation is underway by the bar 461 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: so you know, I don't know. We'll reserve. Judge would 462 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: tell the evidence is finally assessed. But I'll just tell 463 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: you new that you look at the pattern here over years, 464 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: and it is a pattern of prosecutorial abuse on a 465 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: very big scale. I appreciate your giving him, said briefly, 466 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: and I want to remind everybody that Josh's new book, 467 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: The Tyranny of Big Tech, is available. We will have 468 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: it on our show page with a link so you 469 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: can get a copy. You've really been remarkably informative today. 470 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: I think you have a huge future, and I think 471 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: that you're going to make a mark that's very positive 472 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: for freedom in America. So I want to thank you 473 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: for being with us, for taking this time out of 474 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: your extraordinarily busy schedule to talk about an issue that's 475 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: near to both of our hearts. Oh thank you so 476 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: much for having me. This has been a real privilege. 477 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: News World is produced by Gingeris three sixty and iHeartMedia. 478 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Debbie Myers, our producer is Garnsey Sloan, 479 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the 480 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: show who was created by Steve Penley, special thanks to 481 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: the team at Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, 482 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate 483 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 484 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners 485 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: of news World can sign up from my three free 486 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: weekly columns at Gingwish three sixty dot com slash newsletter. 487 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gangridge. This is Newtsworld.