1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question. 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: What if the next time someone annoyed you, antagonized you, 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: or confused you, and you just said let them? It 4 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: might sound counterintuitive, but Mel Robbins, the Queen of Practical Wisdom, 5 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: says those two words can actually change your life. In 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: her latest book, The Let Them Theory, Mel unpacks how 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: letting others be themselves and focusing on your response frees 8 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: you to let go and take control of your own happiness. 9 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: Mel generously offers anecdotes from her own life and from 10 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: her daughter Sawyers, with whom she wrote the book to 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: illustrate how she's used, and sometimes to her chagrin, not used, 12 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: the let them let Me theory. It's an amazing tool 13 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: that will stop you from being mister or misfit, which 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: come on, can be exhausting, and help you get clear 15 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: about what's really important in life. Sounds pretty good, right. 16 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. First of all, Mel Robins, I can't 17 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: believe I've never met you. Welcome to our little podcast. 18 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: Next question compared to yours, it's kind of little. 19 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: Well, it's still important, and I cannot believe I haven't 20 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: met you. Either because I have admired you and watched 21 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: you from afar forever. So thank you for the opportunity 22 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: to meet you, thank you for the opportunity to sit 23 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: down and talk to you. Thank you for the opportunity 24 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 2: to spend time with the person that is spending time 25 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: together with us right now. I'm really excited. 26 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I am too. And before we talk about your 27 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: new book that you wrote with your daughter Sawyer, called 28 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: The Let Them Theory, which I have a lot of 29 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: questions about, I have to ask you a little bit 30 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: about your life, Mel, because we're just getting to know 31 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: each other. I've read a lot of profiles of you, 32 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: and you're you're kind of exploding right now. Although you've 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: been working very hard for I guess the last thirteen 34 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: years or so, building your reputation and your company and 35 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: more recently your podcast. But you've been writing books, you've 36 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: been doing audio books, you've been doing Ted talks, so 37 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: you have been working hard. So how did you become 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: Mel Robbins? How did this happen? And I love that 39 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: you give advice, but how did you get to a 40 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: point where you felt like, yeah, I know enough about 41 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: the world and about life to give advice. 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: You know, the way that I got to where I 43 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: am is first I screwed up my own life, like 44 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 2: I have to learn everything the hard way. I don't 45 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: know what it is about me, but I either have 46 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: to fall into a hole because I'm not paying attention, 47 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 2: or I have to dig one for myself and then 48 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: sit in it and wallow and wish somebody would come 49 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: and help me and solve my problems. And I've learned 50 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: over and over and over in my life that no 51 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 2: one is coming to save you, and that your life 52 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: is your responsibility. And let's look at the word responsibility. 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: Responsibility is the ability to respond. And I didn't know 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: until recently that we give so much power to things 55 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: that are beyond our control. Whether it is your past, 56 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: it's already happened. And at any moment, you can decide 57 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: that you're going to become a different person, and you 58 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: become a different person by figuring out what direction you 59 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: want to move in and then slowly but surely aligning 60 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: your actions every day with the kind of person you'd 61 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: like to be or the things it is that you'd 62 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: like to do. And one of the things that surprises 63 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: me now that I look back and I think it's 64 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: the reason why I'm so driven to share, to teach, 65 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: to have conversations like the one that you and I 66 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: are having to with the person that's listening to us 67 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: right now, is that I have caused myself so much 68 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: headache and so much heartache, and I've caused other people 69 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: so many headaches and so much heartache, Katie, because I 70 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: didn't know, and I didn't know what the problem was. 71 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was dealing with. And it 72 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: covers everything. It covers everything from I'll just give you 73 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: an example. I had no idea that I struggled with 74 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: ADHD and dyslexia until I was forty seven years old, 75 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: no idea. I am part of a lost generation of 76 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 2: women who were diagnosed with anxiety in their late teens 77 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: and their twenties when the real issue all along is 78 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: that you had undiagnosed dyslexia or undiagnosed ADHD. And I 79 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 2: didn't know that the real issue was an anxiety. See, 80 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: anxiety is a symptom. It's a symptom that something is 81 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 2: not getting addressed. And instead what happened is I would 82 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: sit in classrooms and clearly I've got a brain that's 83 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 2: not able to learn the way that public schools are teaching. 84 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: And I also have ADHD, which presents other issues around 85 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: the ability to direct attention. But back in the eighties, 86 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 2: nobody knew that girls could get ADHD because they had 87 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 2: only studied boys. And so there's this entire generation of 88 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 2: women that were diagnosed with anxiety medicated for anxiety that 89 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: are now finding out that they have ADHD later in life. 90 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 2: And you want to know the number one way that 91 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: women find out that they have ADHD. How their kids 92 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 2: are going through the process in elementary school and middle 93 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 2: school of being assessed for quote, behavioral problems and then 94 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 2: a neuropsychoval lo and behold, turns out that they have 95 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: a learning style difference or they have attention issue us 96 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 2: And if you don't address this, you have a human 97 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 2: being that can't do well. 98 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: That's so funny that you mentioned your kids, because my 99 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: daughter always tells me I have ADHD. I don't think 100 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: I have ADHD. 101 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: Mail well, if your life is working well and you're 102 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 2: not experiencing anxiety, then maybe you do or maybe you don't. 103 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 2: But for me, I could never understand why I Why 104 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 2: am I so confident? And I can't remember birthdays. Why 105 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 2: is it that I'm always running late? Why do I 106 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 2: have to have fifty thousand things going on? 107 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 1: Why are you really managed so well? You went to Dartmouth, right, 108 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to get into Dartmouth. 109 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: Nine nineteen eighty six. 110 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: That's really hard. No, come on, now, I disagree. It 111 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: was still hard to get into the Dartmouth so you 112 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,679 Speaker 1: had to do pretty well. Then you went to law school. 113 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: So I'm just saying you were highly functioning individual. 114 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I was high functioning, but let's talk about 115 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: law school. So if you have dyslexia, And by the way, 116 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: Dartmouth was basically one giant wash for me, I don't 117 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: remember it because I was constantly in a state of 118 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: fight or flight, because I had actually not been diagnosed 119 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: with anxiety. So I went through college in a constant 120 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: state of feeling on edge and over compensating by drinking 121 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: procrastinating all nighters. I was a walking red flag Katie 122 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: because I didn't know what the problem was with me. 123 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: And so I was the kind of person that, yes, 124 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: I could freestyle really well, but it nearly killed me 125 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 2: to finish a paper. And when you start to look 126 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: at yourself through a lens that number one. If I'm 127 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: not doing well, there's probably some problem that's underneath all 128 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: this that I've never actually realized is an issue for me. 129 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: And until I figure that out, I'm going to continue 130 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: to struggle. And the good news is as soon as 131 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: you kind of know what you're dealing with or what 132 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: you would like to change in your life, there are 133 00:07:58,640 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: simple things you can do. 134 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: The first book, I guess, or one of the first 135 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: books you wrote, was The five second Rule, and that 136 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: was when you were forty one. You were eight hundred 137 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in debt. That's a lot of unemployed. You're 138 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: watching your husband's restaurant business crumble. That's what you're writing 139 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: in the book. You write, it felt like we had 140 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: failed at life, with no hope of ever escaping the debt. 141 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: Under the weight of this situation, you found yourself procrastinating 142 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: and avoiding solving the problems. But then you were like, 143 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: let's try this five second rule. I mean, how did 144 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 1: you come up with that? 145 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: And what is it? 146 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: Exactly? Okay? 147 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: The five second rule is a little mindset hack that 148 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: helps you push through any excuse or any emotion or 149 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 2: any feeling that you have, so you take action. And 150 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 2: the thesis is very simple. Just like food drops on 151 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 2: the floor and you have five seconds to pick it 152 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: up right, blow the dog here off, and then you 153 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 2: can eat it. You have five seconds to act on 154 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: an idea before your brain contaminates your will to move. 155 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: It's that simple. And what happened for me, here's the 156 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: true story is. And again I'm going to jump back 157 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: and forth between what I knew then and what I 158 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 2: know now, Because when you find yourself stuck in life, 159 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 2: whether it's crippling grief, which I know you've experienced, or 160 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 2: it is all of a sudden the world changes, or 161 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: your job changes, or circumstance changes in a relationship and 162 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 2: you find yourself single, or you find yourself in a 163 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 2: new chapter, or you find yourself as an empty nester, 164 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: or you find yourself in a situation where you don't 165 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: like what's happening in your community or the world around you. 166 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 2: It is normal to feel stressed about that and paralyzed 167 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: us right and actually in the moment, if the issue 168 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: is big enough, feeling stressed or paralyzed is a sign 169 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: that you're mentally well because the response is actually appropriate 170 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: to the thing that you're dealing with. The issue is 171 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: that none of us understand that when and you get 172 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: to a point where you're super stressed about something and 173 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: you start to feel anxious, which is simply just feeling 174 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 2: stressed all the time. I mean, anxiety and stress are 175 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: the same physiological things in your body. I didn't know 176 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 2: this at the time when I was forty one. I 177 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 2: just knew that I had eight hundred thousand dollars in debt, 178 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 2: that the bills were piling up on the kitchen counter. 179 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 2: I couldn't open them. I didn't have money in the 180 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: bank anyway, I didn't. We were struggling to get gas 181 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 2: in the tank and food on the table. I hadn't 182 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,239 Speaker 2: told my parents, I hadn't told my friends, friends had invested. 183 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: We're also in a community where we have lots of 184 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: friends and you're trying to keep up and you don't 185 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: want people to know. And so I did feel paralyzed. 186 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 2: And the thing that's interesting that I really want to 187 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 2: underscore for particularly the person that's listening and spending time 188 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 2: with us right now, whether this applies to you in 189 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 2: your life at this moment, or it applies to somebody 190 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 2: that you love who is seemingly stuck. Is that nobody's 191 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: actually stuck. A person who's stuck isn't actually paralleled because 192 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 2: you're in deep conflict with yourself. You know when you're 193 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: not thriving. You know when you're making decisions that are 194 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 2: taking your life down the wrong road. Like the hardest 195 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 2: working person in a classroom is not the person getting a's. 196 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: It's the person that's failing because they're struggling all the time. 197 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: Even if it looks like they're not doing anything on 198 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: the outside, they're constantly in conflict knowing that they are 199 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: not reaching their potential, that they're not trying how they can. 200 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 2: Same thing is true with health. Someone in your life 201 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: that you wish that would be healthy. We make the 202 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: mistake of thinking they're not motivated. That's not true at all. 203 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 2: They're in deep conflict with themselves. They know that there 204 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: are things that they can do. It's not an issue 205 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: of willpower, it's an issue of skill. And so I 206 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: think that's an important backdrop because I didn't know any 207 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 2: of this, and so you can start to feel like 208 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: you're the only one that's trapped. You're the idiot that 209 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: can't figure this out, that somehow you screwed up when 210 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: truly it's not just you that there are things you 211 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 2: can do. And for me, I knew what I needed 212 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 2: to do. I'm not an idiot. I knew that if 213 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: we're that much in debt, Katie, I need to get 214 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 2: a job. I could ask for help. I need to 215 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 2: get my butt out the front door and go for 216 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 2: a walk, because all the experts say it's going to 217 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: make me feel better. I know that drinking half a 218 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: bottle of bourbon every night is probably not helping the situation. 219 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 2: Neither is waking up hungover and then hitting the snooze 220 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 2: button six times. But you get so stuck in the 221 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 2: stress of it, and that keeps you in it. And 222 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: so what happened, And this is the true story. It 223 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: was February two thousand and eight, and so also the 224 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 2: housing crisis going down, and I'm sitting in front of 225 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: the television. 226 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's it. 227 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 2: Mel Robbins. Tomorrow morning, woman, it's a new you. Tomorrow morning. 228 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: You have got to stop drinking. You have got to 229 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 2: stop screaming a Chris. It's not like he tried to 230 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 2: fail at the restaurant business. You know, you gotta call 231 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 2: your parents. You got to you got to pick up 232 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: the phone and look for a job. And by God, woman, 233 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 2: when that alarm rings, you cannot lay there like a 234 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: human pot roast, marinating and fear staring at the ceiling. 235 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: You have got to get your butt out of bed 236 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: and get those kids on the bus. And all of 237 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: a sudden, this rocket ship launches across the television screen, 238 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: and it gave me this crazy idea. I thought it 239 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: was like a sign from Like, that's a sign from God. 240 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 2: Tomorrow morning, when that alarm rings, mel you are gonna 241 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: launch yourself out of bed like a rocket ship. You're 242 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 2: gonna move so fast you're not gonna be in that 243 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: bed when that anxiety hits. Now, it could have been 244 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: the four bourbon Manhattans. It gave me that idea because 245 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: I was drinking an awful lot back then, and. 246 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: It sounds kind of stupid. 247 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: Yeah right, They're delicious, especially this time of year, so 248 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: it sounds stupid. So the next morning, the alarm ring, 249 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: and that's when I saw something that I'd never seen before. 250 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 2: And once you embrace what I'm about to share with you, 251 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 2: you will never look at life the same again. There 252 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: is a five second window that defines your whole life. 253 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: It determines how much money you make, It determines how 254 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: healthy you are, It determines the kind of relationship you 255 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: have with your kids and with your parents and with 256 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: your loved ones. It's this five second window between knowing 257 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: what you need to do and actually doing it. There's 258 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: this moment of hesitation that we all have in the 259 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: small moments in life, where you have this instinct that 260 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,479 Speaker 2: you should pick up the phone or start the conversation, 261 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 2: or get off the couch and go to the gym, 262 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: and instead of actually doing it, we make this fatal 263 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: mistake where we hesitate and then we stop and think 264 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: about how we feel about doing it. And so that morning, 265 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: Tuesday morning, February two thousand and eight, the alarm rings 266 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 2: and I immediately remember that dumb idea at a launch 267 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: out of bed, and I stop and think, do I 268 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 2: feel like getting out of bed? I'm like, it's it's cold, 269 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 2: it's winter in Massachusetts. How the hell is this going 270 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 2: to help. I'm mean, hundred thousand dollars in day, I 271 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: don't want to get out of bed, and I start 272 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: reaching for the snooze button. Because it was a habit 273 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: and a habit's just a pattern. And for whatever reason, 274 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: I just started counting backwards that morning, five four three 275 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 2: two one, and then I stood up and it struck 276 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: me like, I was kind of like, that's strange. And 277 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 2: I was in such a state of desperation that I 278 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: just dismissed my kind of pragmatic, cynical side, and I thought, 279 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 2: what if this is a sign from God? What if 280 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 2: this is a magic trip, what if this works? And 281 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: so I made myself a promise. I said, any moment 282 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: that I have today where I know what I could 283 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: do but I don't feel like it, I'm just going 284 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: to count backwards and see what happens. And that was 285 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 2: the beginning of an entirely new life. 286 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a 287 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and 288 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, 289 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. So 290 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: here we are seven years later, and your journey has continued. Yes, 291 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: and you are still writing and thinking about ways that 292 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: could improve your life that as a result, is improving 293 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: the lives of so many other people. And your new book, 294 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: which you wrote with your daughter Sawyer is called the 295 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: Let Them Theory. So that's obviously the focus of our 296 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: conversation today because we want everyone to read this book. 297 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: And I know you just had an interview with Oprah 298 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: and she said, I mean, this is a woman who 299 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: knows about self help. Mel And what did she say 300 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: to you about your book? 301 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: I'm still processing it. She said that this is the 302 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 2: single best self help book she has ever read. 303 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: Wow, And that. 304 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: It is the message and tool that humanity needs right 305 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 2: now for this extremely overwhelming and challenging and conflict driven 306 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 2: moment in time that we're all living in. Because ultimately, 307 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 2: the Let Them Theory is about what you can control 308 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 2: and what you can't control, and it is ultimately a 309 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 2: book that will fundamentally change your relationship to yourself and 310 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: your relationship to other people. 311 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: This all started in May of twenty twenty three. Yes, 312 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: when you posted on TikTok about the Let Them Theory 313 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: of video that went uber uber viral. Yes, you were, 314 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: I guess writing the book at the time. Oh no, 315 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: no, no no, So the TikTok video prompted the book. 316 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 2: Well, what happened is I had an experience I never 317 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: thought i'd be sitting across from you, Katie, saying, I 318 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: discovered something at a high school prom that changed my life. 319 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: But it was our son. We have three children, they're 320 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: twenty five, twenty three, and nineteen. It was Soakley, right, Yeah, 321 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: Oakley was at his prom and I was your typical 322 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: psycho micromanaging mother from the carsage, to the tucks, to 323 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 2: the shoes to this to that. And we're at the 324 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 2: pre prom party and our daughter Kendall, who's twenty three, 325 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 2: was home from college at the time, and they're taking 326 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 2: photos and then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Katie, 327 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 2: it starts pouring ring And so you got twenty kids 328 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 2: in black tie and all these parents milling about and 329 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: they're about to all leave to head out, and nobody 330 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: has umbrellas and nobody has any raincoats. And by the way, 331 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: for some reason, all the kids in southern Vermont drive 332 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: to the prom, which was new to me, you know, 333 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: raising our daughters in Boston, where everybody had buses and 334 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 2: this and that. And so I'm like, wait, you're driving. 335 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 2: Why are you borrowing dad's truck? Like, what's gonna happen 336 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 2: with it? I don't understand this, And now it's raining. 337 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 2: And then I say to Oakley, where are you guys 338 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 2: going for dinner? As they're trying to head out the door, 339 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 2: and the parents are like, wait, you can't go yeah, 340 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: and he's like, I don't know. And I was like, 341 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: you don't have reservations for prom? He's like no, And 342 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 2: I turned to my husband. I'm like, they do I 343 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: have reservations for prom? And he's like, a guest's not. 344 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: And I'm like why. I don't know why it bothered 345 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 2: me so much, but it bothered me Katie. And so 346 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 2: I go, well, hold on, let me see if I 347 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 2: can find you something. And now all the parents are 348 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 2: milling about and I'm starting to you know, when you 349 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 2: get that like volcano of emotion. 350 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: That just yeah, you know, I'm familiar with that. 351 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: And as it's coming up and you feel the words 352 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 2: coming you're out of your mouth, or the text that 353 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 2: you're about to kind of send coming, and I'm starting 354 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 2: to feel that wave of panic hit as I'm trying 355 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 2: to find a reservation and we're trying to get twenty 356 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 2: kids to not run out into a rainstorm and just 357 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 2: destroy their hair and their dresses and their shoes. My 358 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 2: daughter sees it coming and she reaches out and grabs 359 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 2: my arm and yanks me to her, and she like 360 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: grits her teeth and she's like, them, you're being annoying. 361 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 2: If they want to go to the taco stamp, let them. 362 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: If they want to be in the print, let them. 363 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 2: If he's going to run his shoes, let them. And 364 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 2: she started saying this cascade of let her ruin her hair, 365 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: let them ud get under dress, let them do what 366 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: they want to do, and she kind of ended it 367 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 2: with mom, it's their prom, not yours. Let them, and 368 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: that final let them was like a sledgehammer, And all 369 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: of a sudden, my shoulders just dropped, and I thought, 370 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 2: let them, like why do I care? Like why am 371 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 2: I not thinking about where I'm going to dinner? And 372 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 2: so I said to o, hey, Oak, and he turned around. 373 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 2: He's like, what you know, because of course I've been 374 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: super irritating and annoying. And I'm like nothing, but here's 375 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 2: forty bucks. Go have fun. And then you saw his 376 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 2: shoulders drop and there was this huge smile that his 377 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 2: face and that was that. And the next day I 378 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: woke up and I'm at the grocery store and there's 379 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 2: like five people in front of me and one cashier 380 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 2: and it's like beep pep me. And again that sort 381 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 2: of like volcano of emotion starts rising up, and I start, 382 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: what do you do in line when that's happening. 383 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: You get exasperated and you're rolling your eyes and you're 384 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: like clearing your throats and you're getting aggravated. 385 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 2: Yes, and you now think that you know how to 386 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: run a grocery store better than the manager. And I said, 387 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 2: let them, and my shoulders dropped and I just started 388 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: using it and I started to notice something. Oh my god, 389 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 2: people are really annoying. Holy cow. People's moods are really 390 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: getting to me. Wow, that Zoom meeting really drained me. 391 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 2: Holy cow. I've got opinions about traffic, I've got opinions 392 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 2: about my mother in law's expectations, I've got And it 393 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 2: occurred to me, holy cow, I'm allowing so many people 394 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 2: and so much stuff that's beneath me, and that is 395 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 2: not my job to manage to drain the two most 396 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: precious resources I have in life, time and energy. See, 397 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 2: your life is determined by what you put your time 398 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 2: into and what you pour your energy into, and so 399 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 2: I've got news for you. If you are tired, or 400 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: you are overwhelmed, or you feel like you're last on 401 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 2: your list, or you're just frustrated with some dynamic in 402 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: a relationship, or you're frustrated with the world at large, 403 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 2: or you're just not as happy as you'd like to be, 404 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 2: the problem isn't you. The problem is that you unknowingly 405 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 2: give power to other people and to things that you 406 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 2: can't control. And all day long, you're allowing people who 407 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: are an annoying or who are emotionally immature, or who 408 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 2: are doing things that you're never going to be able 409 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: to control. 410 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: Anyway, to impact you. 411 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 2: And it's stupid. And so I use this for a week, 412 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 2: and I'm telling you, Katie, just like I felt, I knew. 413 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 2: I have never felt this peaceful. I have never felt 414 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 2: like I truly could put boundaries up between me and 415 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 2: the world. I had never felt more in control. And 416 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 2: so I naturally went to social media and I shared 417 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 2: this simple thing, and I was literally like, you know, 418 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 2: if your friends don't invite you, out let them. If 419 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 2: your kids don't want to help you do something, let them. 420 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 2: If the person that you're dating doesn't want a commitment, 421 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 2: let them. Let people reveal who they are and what 422 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: they care about, stop trying to manage them. Because when 423 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: somebody reveals who they are and what they care about, 424 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: now you get to choose. You get to choose whether 425 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 2: or not you pour time and energy into this. In 426 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 2: twenty four hours, it was fifteen million views. 427 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: Why did it resonate so much? You think, why do 428 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: you think it did? Maybe because increasingly people have felt 429 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: out of control in this crazy world we're living in 430 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: for a whole host of reasons. Yes, And maybe their 431 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: impulse to control has gotten stronger as the world's gotten scarier. 432 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: And so maybe that, you know, to Oprah's point, at 433 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: this moment in time, this is what people really needed 434 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: to hear, because people feel out of control, and I 435 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: guess your response is to control more when you feel 436 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: that way, right. 437 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 2: Exactly, And actually you're the first person that has explained 438 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 2: it that way, and you're exactly right. And one of 439 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 2: the things that is so powerful about this, especially in 440 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: this moment in time, is that ultimately every human being 441 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 2: has a hardwired need to be in control. It is 442 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: it is a survival mechan it is something that you 443 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 2: will never get rid of. And we've been working against it. See, 444 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 2: when you're in control of your life, you actually feel 445 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 2: safe and you feel confident, and you feel. 446 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: Like less scared. 447 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 2: Yes we are, you know, yes we are. Whether you're 448 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: scared because your adult children aren't doing well, or you're 449 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 2: scared because your parents' health are failing, or whether you're 450 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 2: scared because of the state of politics, or you're scared 451 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 2: because you see the rising cost of living, or you're 452 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: scared because you have a health diagnosis. And so we 453 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: need to feel like we're in control of our decisions, 454 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: of our actions, of our future, of our lives. And 455 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 2: we also, by the way, and this is where it 456 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: gets tricky, is that when somebody around us does something 457 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 2: that worries us, or hurts us, or frustrates the hell 458 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: out of us us or stresses us out, guess what, 459 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 2: it makes us feel like we're not in control because 460 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 2: now we're worried about you. So then what do we 461 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: do We try to control you and fix problems. Yes, right, yes, 462 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 2: But then here's the problem, Katie. If your behavior is 463 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 2: stressing me out and I then step in and try 464 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 2: to tell you what to do, guess what. You also 465 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: have a need to be in control of yourself, and 466 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 2: so you are going to push back against me. And 467 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 2: so we have gotten into this state in our families, 468 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: in our love lives, with our kids, with our friends, 469 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 2: and even at a global level when you talk about 470 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 2: global conversations or the way that people are so polarized. 471 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 2: We have gotten to a point where our need to 472 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 2: control has spiraled out of control. And the fundamental thing 473 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 2: that I need that I'm trying to make everybody understand 474 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 2: is this. If there is one thing on the planet 475 00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 2: you will never be able to control. It's what another 476 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 2: person does, says, or feels. Period. Any energy you put 477 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 2: into trying to control what somebody does or trying to 478 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 2: manipulate how they feel or trying to ensure that they're 479 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: going to think a certain thing will backfire. It will 480 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 2: create more stress and frustration for you, and it will 481 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: create more friction and tension in your relationships. I worked 482 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 2: against this fundamental law in every relationship I had for 483 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 2: fifty four years. And when I discovered the let them theory, 484 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 2: and I started saying let them because here's how the 485 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 2: theory works. There's two parts. Any moment that you're frustrated, 486 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 2: you read the headlines, you're frustrated for me. This morning, 487 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 2: I literally got stuck in an elevator and had to 488 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 2: be rescued by the New York City Fire Department. Shout 489 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 2: out to Latter seven. You guys were amazing. We're in 490 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 2: there for fifty minutes. Do you want to know how 491 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 2: I didn't have a panic attack. I recognized in the 492 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 2: moment what's in my control. It's not, So let them. 493 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 2: Let them take their time, them figure out how to 494 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: do this safely. Let them do what they're. 495 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: Going to do, the same thing happened to me on 496 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: Saturday night, but only for ten minutes. 497 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, but your mind can start spending very quickly. 498 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 499 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 2: So when you say let them, you recognize there is 500 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 2: nothing about being in an elevator that you have control of. 501 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 2: So when you say it, you're actually detaching from the 502 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 2: thing you can't control, and so therefore you're protecting yourself 503 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 2: from a necessary stress and you're conserving your energy. And 504 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: then you say the second part. 505 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: Which is let me Right, I was going to ask 506 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: you about let me before we talk about let me melt, 507 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: let me ask you about one of your them examples. Yes, 508 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: and it was letting your kids If your kids don't 509 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: want to do something, let them. So I have to 510 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: say I had an immediate reaction to that, and I 511 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: sort of envisioned my parents wanting me to go to 512 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: Sunday school when I was a kid, or if I 513 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: wanted my kids to go somewhere because we had made 514 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: a commitment to be somewhere. I can't even think of 515 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: an example. I mean, if you just let them, isn't 516 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: that an invitation to raise really entitled spoiled brats. Absolutely, 517 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: and that example, honestly, I was like, I'm with mel 518 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: all the way, but not with kids necessarily. 519 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 2: Well, it depends on the age of the kids, and 520 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 2: it also depends on the dynamic. And so first, this 521 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 2: is really a book about adult relationships, and so with kids, 522 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 2: you're actually in charge. And there's a huge distinction in 523 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 2: this book. And at the very end of the book, 524 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: in the appendix, there's a guide that you can download 525 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: that is all about how you use this with small 526 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 2: children versus how you use this with young adults and 527 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: adult children. 528 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: Got it, But what about say I was envisioning teenagers 529 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: right who didn't want to go to a funeral. I'm 530 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: just throwing that at as an example. I'm not going 531 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: to let them say I don't want to go. 532 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: Well, here's what you can say. You have to let 533 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: them say they don't want to go, because that's what 534 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 2: they're saying. It's already happened. But then you say, they 535 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 2: let me part, and you realize that my control here 536 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,479 Speaker 2: is truly in what I think, what I do, and 537 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 2: how I react to my own feelings, Because if a 538 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 2: kid doesn't want to go, that might be a really 539 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 2: mentally well response to a very overwhelming situation that scares 540 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 2: the hell. 541 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, maybe it don't use funeral as an example, 542 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: like a grandmother's birthday. 543 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 2: Yes, of hear no one wants to? 544 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? 545 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: Yes, and so you're going to just you say let 546 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: them right, because you don't want to get pissed off, 547 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 2: because then your emotions are now driving how you respond. 548 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: And well, how do you respond when your sixteen year 549 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: old says, I don't want to go to Nana's birthday? 550 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? I completely understand, and honestly neither do I. But 551 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: here's the thing. Do you love her? 552 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: Yes? 553 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 2: And how do you think it's going to make her 554 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: feel if you don't go? And what kind of character 555 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 2: and value do you have as a person? And don't 556 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: you think it's going to make you feel like a 557 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: good person to show up for your grandma? Like sometimes 558 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 2: in life the decision to make is don't go because 559 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 2: it makes her feel good, go because it makes you 560 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 2: know that you're a good person, because you show up 561 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,959 Speaker 2: for people that show up for you. 562 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: So let them is not necessarily for kids or even teenagers. 563 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: Let them acknowledge their feelings, but none don't. 564 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: Override them like a psycho bitch like I used to be, Like, 565 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 2: I don't care how you feel, Get in the car, 566 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 2: get your stuff running late anyway? Like do you see what? 567 00:31:59,040 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: Do you see the difference? 568 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 2: And do you see the other thing that I was 569 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: doing in the role play? 570 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: See? 571 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 2: As a parent, you are responsible for your children's emotional 572 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 2: well being. You're responsible for feeding them, for keeping them safe, 573 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 2: for providing for them, and you're also responsible more importantly 574 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 2: for helping them figure out who they are and helping 575 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 2: them understand what character means. And what I was doing 576 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 2: because I was able to say, let them, let them 577 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 2: be a sixteen year old, because no sixteen year old 578 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 2: wants to go to a grandmother's birthday for crying out loud. 579 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,479 Speaker 2: They want to be on their phones with their friends. 580 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: That's an age appropriate reaction to that situation. So me 581 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 2: reacting like a tornado or a volcano just makes them wrong. 582 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 2: And what I do instead is I get control of 583 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 2: myself and I act like a mature adult instead of 584 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 2: an immature adult who then bars and vents at my child. 585 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 2: I acknowledge how they feel, and then I step into 586 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 2: my role, which is this is a teaching opportunity. 587 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: So I was going to ask you to close the 588 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,959 Speaker 1: circle on the let them and how it leads to 589 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: the let me, because that's such an important part of this. 590 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: So tell me what's in it for me? Everything? 591 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 2: Just three selfish everything. Do you want to feel peaceful? 592 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 2: Do you want to feel powerful? Do you want to 593 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 2: go through life and insulate yourself from all the stressful 594 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 2: things that happen all day long? Of course you do. 595 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: And you can't do that without first giving up control 596 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 2: of everything around you. So you can't get sober until 597 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 2: you stop drinking. You can't take control of your life, 598 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 2: or your confidence, or your power until you stop trying 599 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 2: to control everyone and everything around you. And when you 600 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 2: say let them, two things happen. Number One, you detach. 601 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 2: So now one of the reasons why this is also 602 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 2: so extraordinarily powerful is because I didn't just create this 603 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 2: out of thin airror this exists. The let them theory 604 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: exists in a time continuum that dates all the way 605 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 2: back to ancient history. The let them theory is deeply 606 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 2: rooted in Stoicism, Buddhism, radical acceptance, detachment theory. So the 607 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 2: power that you're feeling is from thousands of years of 608 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 2: people really talking about Stoic philosophy or being a practicing Buddhist, 609 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 2: or learning about radical acceptance. In fact, we were with 610 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 2: doctor Martin Luther King, Junior's son and his daughter in 611 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 2: law couple days ago, and as we were talking about 612 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 2: the let Them theory, they reflected that this is representative 613 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 2: of doctor Martin Luther King's work because it is all 614 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 2: that is the heart of civil disobedience and peaceful protest, 615 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 2: that you have to learn that the power is not 616 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 2: in the oppressor. The power is in your response to it. 617 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 2: That peace, that love, that non response at times is 618 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 2: so much more powerful than hate, and that's the only 619 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 2: thing that's in your control. And so I know that 620 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 2: this works because I have such deep respect for the 621 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 2: lineage and the history through religion, through philosophy, through psychology, 622 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 2: through some of the most important moments in human time 623 00:35:53,920 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 2: about what actually created power and breakthroughs for people for 624 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,240 Speaker 2: moments in time. And it's in focusing on the power 625 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 2: that you have. You know, Professor Margaret Meade said that 626 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 2: quote that you and I both love, which is, you 627 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 2: know it just takes a handful of committed citizens to 628 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 2: change everything. In fact, that's the only thing that ever has. 629 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 2: And if you don't like what you see happening in 630 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 2: your community, or in your family, or in your marriage 631 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 2: or with your adult children, don't look to them to 632 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 2: fix it. Look to yourself. Stop underestimating your power, your 633 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 2: ability through your energy and your action to shift anything 634 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 2: over time. And that's why I think this has resonated. 635 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: I would think this would be the anti let me 636 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: fix it mentality, right not. 637 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 2: See, most of us when we say let's fix this, 638 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 2: are obsessed with what we're trying, with the thing we're 639 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 2: trying to fix, or what other people are doing. Stop 640 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,720 Speaker 2: looking at what everybody else is doing, and come inward 641 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 2: and drop into your value and your character and decide 642 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 2: what matters to you and the way that you know 643 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 2: that something matters to you is not because you're thinking 644 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 2: about it. It's because you're doing something about it. And 645 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 2: when you are spending so much time I'm worried about this, 646 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 2: or I'm worried about that, or that person's frustrating me. 647 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 2: What's happening every time you allow somebody else's behavior or 648 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 2: what they say to hurt you, to impact you, is 649 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 2: you're draining the very energy and time that you need 650 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 2: to get to work or to get out of the relationship. 651 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 2: And one other thing I want to be very clear 652 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 2: about because you know, one of the things that a 653 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 2: lot of people, you know, when they are saying, well, 654 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 2: what about this, it's always about kids, And you're one 655 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 2: hundred percent right. This is not for little kids. This 656 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 2: is for you as an adult to actually be the 657 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 2: mature adult and to be in control of your emotions 658 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 2: and to model behavior and values for your children, because 659 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 2: that's who they learn it from. And most of the 660 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 2: problems that we have right now are because we've got 661 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 2: a bunch of adults walking around that are basically immature 662 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 2: eight year olds inside of big bodies, and we're treating 663 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 2: them like adults instead of seeing that their little children 664 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 2: emotionally let them because you can't control them, and then 665 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 2: when you say let me, there's only three things you 666 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 2: can ever control. It's your thoughts about what just happened 667 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 2: and what you want to do next. It's whether or 668 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 2: not you want to respond and how you respond. And 669 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,879 Speaker 2: it's how you allow your emotions to rise and fall 670 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 2: and what you do with them or whether you let 671 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 2: them run you over. That's it. 672 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: That's all you got, speaking of emotions. It's I think 673 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: you make some interesting observations about jealousy and about comparison. 674 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: And I think we live in a world where you know, 675 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: when I was growing up, I didn't know who had 676 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: what I mean, I might have known the neighbors got 677 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: a fancy new car, right, you know, could afford to 678 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: do something my family couldn't. But it wasn't, you know, 679 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't in my face all the time. Yes, And 680 00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: now we are seeing all these different life experiences. And 681 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: in addition to Margaret Meade, I love the quote that 682 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: comparison is the thief of joy, which I thought was Emerson, 683 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: but it's actually Teddy Roosevelt. Although a lot of people, 684 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: I guess have been that quote has been attributed to 685 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people. You talk about using those in 686 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: a positive way. That jealousy is actually not a bad thing. 687 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 2: No, unless you're wishing somebody bad, But again let them like, 688 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 2: I can't control whether or not what somebody does with 689 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 2: their jealousy, but I can teach you how to use 690 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 2: it to your advantage. So, first of all, jealousy is 691 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 2: deeply personal because it's tied to what you desire, and 692 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 2: you're never going to feel jealous over something you don't want. 693 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 2: Like I'm not jealous in the least when I see 694 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 2: somebody pull up in a Lamborghini. I don't want one. 695 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 2: I don't care about it. There's nothing that you could 696 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 2: do to make me jealous of somebody. But if I 697 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,959 Speaker 2: see somebody that I was just talking to my friend 698 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 2: Jays Shetty and he has. 699 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: Really does any of the most beautiful eyes not to 700 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: be oh my gosh, you're like. 701 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 2: Light light, light, light, light green. So we were just 702 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 2: hanging out the other day, I were really really good friends. 703 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 2: And that's the other thing I want to say. The 704 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 2: very people that you're jealous of because they're doing what 705 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 2: you're doing, should be your closest friends because they're the 706 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 2: only people on the planet that know what you're going through. 707 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 2: And what a shame is it that you look at 708 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 2: people that are in your industry or that are doing 709 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 2: what you want to do as competitors or enemies that 710 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 2: you're against, because they should actually be your greatest collaborators. 711 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 2: This was this huge revelation with let them, because I 712 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 2: used to look at my friends and be like, they 713 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 2: got a new kitchen, she has a beautiful handbag, she 714 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 2: just got a promotion, now she's getting married, they're pregnant. 715 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 2: I'm what does that do? That sort of energy just 716 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 2: rises the stress in you, and then you start thinking 717 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 2: about it and you tell yourself it's never going to 718 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 2: be me. 719 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: And I love this idea of upward comparison versus downwards. Yes, 720 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: so it is basically envy versus gratitude. 721 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 2: Yes, like we are we default to looking up and 722 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 2: above and seeing people that are doing better and then 723 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 2: using somebody else's example to shame ourselves or beat ourselves up. 724 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 2: It's never going to be me. There's already too many podcasts. 725 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 2: I shouldn't launch one now. Ur I'm never going to 726 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 2: be able to renovate my kitchen because she just did. 727 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 2: I can't have white cabinets because my friend is going 728 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 2: to think I somehow copied her, yes, exact. Can you 729 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 2: know what ridiculousness this is? And so learning to say 730 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 2: let them taught me something important about life. Other people 731 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 2: never block your way. They only lead the way because 732 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 2: you're not actually playing against people in life, you're playing 733 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 2: with them. And if you can say let them, let 734 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 2: them have their success, let them have their Lamborghini, let 735 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 2: them have a million dollars, let them get married, let 736 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 2: them have the love story, let them earn a million bucks, 737 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,399 Speaker 2: let them do this, let them do that. Now you're 738 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 2: detached because you're only jealous because you want that thing. 739 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 2: So let them, let them lead the way, and then 740 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 2: say let me, let me remind myself that if they've 741 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 2: done it, there's a formula, and if I'm not so 742 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 2: day i'm emotional and jealous, I can wake up and 743 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,280 Speaker 2: follow the formula. And if I just let me remind 744 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 2: myself that if I put my head down, I can 745 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 2: slowly chip away at it. And I can ten years 746 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 2: from now, fifteen years from now, five years from now, 747 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,919 Speaker 2: I can save my money. I can change my job. 748 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 2: I can learn how to be financially responsible. I can 749 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 2: learn how to find love again. Let them, let them, 750 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 2: let them, because the more you let them lead the 751 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 2: way and then you say let me, the faster you're 752 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 2: going to find the way to all the things that 753 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 2: you want. 754 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 1: At the end of the day. I guess your book 755 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,320 Speaker 1: is really about control and letting go and not sweating 756 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: the small stuff or really the big stuff. Right now, 757 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: sometimes letting go can be very painful, especially I think 758 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: during these divided times. And you write in your book. 759 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 2: But this isn't and go. It's very different, I believe, okay, 760 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,760 Speaker 2: because for me, being a complete type a control freak, 761 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 2: I don't want to let anything go because it means 762 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 2: I lost. See when you say I just have to 763 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 2: let it go, I have to let it go that 764 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 2: you know they voted for that person. I have a 765 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 2: different I have to let it go. Doesn't that feel 766 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 2: like you're surrendering to defeat. Yes, that's why I hate it. 767 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 2: I've never been able to let anything go. Let them 768 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 2: is very different because let them is you seeing things 769 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:41,760 Speaker 2: as they are and you are detaching from it, which 770 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 2: means you are choosing to no longer put time and 771 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 2: energy into it. And it's the opposite because when I 772 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 2: say I have to let it go, I feel defeated 773 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,760 Speaker 2: and less than when I say let them, I feel 774 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 2: superior because I'm kind of like, I see what you're 775 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 2: doing over there, and I recognize that my time is 776 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 2: better spent attacking this a different way. 777 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 1: But also, I think you mean let them do whatever 778 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: they're going to do, because, as you write in the book, 779 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: these people will reveal who they are through your detachment, yes, 780 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,280 Speaker 1: and allowing them to show their true character, true selves. 781 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 2: Yes. So you know some people will say, wait, I'm 782 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,240 Speaker 2: just supposed to be treated like a doormat. I'm supposed 783 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 2: to let them abuse me. Absolutely not, You're already doing that. 784 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 2: When you say let them, you're actually, for the first 785 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 2: time doing what psychologists need you to do, which is 786 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 2: you're detaching from the person and you're probably seeing them 787 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 2: for the first time. It's amazing because when you say 788 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 2: let them, you detach from something you can't control. When 789 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,760 Speaker 2: you say let me, you take your power back because 790 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 2: you prompt yourself. In any moment, whether it's at the 791 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,720 Speaker 2: grocery store line that's stressing you out or it's something 792 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 2: that somebody said that hurt you, let me is where 793 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 2: you actually get to choose what you do in response 794 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,879 Speaker 2: to it because what you think, what you do, how 795 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 2: you process your emotions. They'll let me part is everything 796 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 2: because that's where your power is, and you always have power. 797 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 2: And that's what this taught man, It's what it's going 798 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 2: to teach you. 799 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: I love that you take your life experience and then 800 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:20,760 Speaker 1: translate it into great practical tips for people. Mel Robbins, 801 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,919 Speaker 1: thank you very much. The book is the Let Them 802 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,359 Speaker 1: Theory written with your daughter Sawyer. I want to make 803 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,839 Speaker 1: sure she gets credit here too. Thank you so much. 804 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: This was so much fun and I can't wait to 805 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: put into practice this whole philosophy because I'm a bit 806 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: of a control freak too. 807 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 2: Well, you're going to love it and your kids are 808 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 2: going to love it even more. 809 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, 810 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want 811 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, 812 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would 813 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: love to hear hear from you. Next Question is a 814 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers 815 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer 816 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: is Ryan Martz. And our producers are Adriana Fazzio and 817 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:20,879 Speaker 1: Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music. For more 818 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, 819 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,000 Speaker 1: wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, 820 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also 821 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,840 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. 822 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:40,839 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 823 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,