1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: A casual glance at economic news might make you think 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: the world is going to the dogs. But what if 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: it was going to the bugs and the maggots. Economic 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: forces like climate change and population growth have a new 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: generation of farmers scouring the globe for fresh sources of protein. 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: The edible insect market may exceed one billion dollars in 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: five years, and along the way diffuse a potential food crisis. 8 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Benchmark. I'm Daniel Moss, columnist at Bloomberg Opinion 9 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: in New York, and Dame Scott landman and economics editor 10 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg News in Washington. Two guests today come at 11 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: the boom in gastronomy from different places. First will be 12 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: joined by Olympia Yaga, who at North Carolina for Canberra, 13 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: where she's CEO of go Tera. Go Tera builds mobile 14 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: insect farming systems. In June. I ate some worms and 15 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: crocodile at an event with Olympia. The worms were fine, 16 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: croc was a bit dodgy. Our second guest is Agnesca 17 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: to Susa, who covers commodities and agriculture for Bloomberg News 18 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: in London with two colleagues. She recently wrote an article 19 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: called Bugs Are Coming Soon to your dinner table. First, 20 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: let's go to our intrepid Australian insect farmer, Olympia. Why 21 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: don't we start by describing your role in this emerging 22 00:01:54,640 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: constellation of the insect gastronomy. Sure, so, I'm the founder 23 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: and CEO of a company called go Tera that manages 24 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: food waste using insects in robotic modular systems. And I'm 25 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: also the chairwoman of the Insect Protein Association of Australia, 26 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: which is the national representative body for insect farmers and 27 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: insect retailers in Australia and Olympia. When you talk about 28 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: insect farming insect protein, what kind of insects are we 29 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: actually talking about? That both the ones that you do 30 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: and other people in your association have been working with. Yes, So, 31 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 1: for insects for food, the big three are meal worms, 32 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: and there's a couple of different types of meal worm, cricket, 33 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: and in that group you could probably put your locusts 34 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: in your grasshopper, and then cockroach or beetle. And then 35 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: there's some other novel ones where people grow sort of 36 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: spiders or scarabs and things like that. But those three 37 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: the most conventional that people farm in commercial quantities, both 38 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: in Australia and around the world. So the cockroaches that 39 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: I've seen walking around various apartments, that I've let those 40 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: become food? Is that what you're talking about? How does 41 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: that happen? You are a cockroach farmer without realizing it. Yeah, 42 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: they Yes, those are the cockroaches that we're talking about. 43 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: They are actually really clean. And this is sort of 44 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: an interesting segue into the culture of insects and how 45 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: we perceive what insects are. So they're always being considered 46 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: dirty things, but cockroaches as as an animal are actually 47 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: quite clean, and they have a very distinct flavor that 48 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: is appealing, and they're mostly turned into a meal which 49 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: people use as a flower substitute. Okay, So just so 50 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: we're clear on this, are we at the point where 51 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: we will soon be able to walk into Whole Foods 52 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: or Woolworths or Tesco or Carrap and say, hey, where's 53 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: the aisle that has the cockroach flour? How far off 54 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: is that? I don't think we're that far away at all. 55 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: The challenge for any new industry, but in this case, 56 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: this industry is the commercial capacity to produce commodity for 57 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: fm CG. So what is fm CG. So fm CG 58 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: is fast moving consumer goods. So those are chips, cakes, muffins, 59 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: you know, the things that we buy as snacks and things, 60 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: and so those you've got to farm enough insects for 61 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: your products to become mainstream. And so the industry is 62 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: merging and we're getting more farmers and more farmers are 63 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: getting to commercial capacity, and so that's a barrier to 64 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: becoming mainstream. If you can't make enough product to even 65 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: get shelf space in the more conventional stores, you're not 66 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: going to be able to move there. I think we're 67 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: probably less than two years away from cricket products being 68 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: found in aisles of our sort of your more traded 69 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: Joe whole food type places. Isn't what you make now? 70 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: Is that more for for livestock use as it is 71 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: it going to animal feed and that sort of thing. Yes, 72 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: So intec farming does lend itself to being used for 73 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: for livestock feed. And there are people go Terror is 74 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: one of them that farms insects for livestock feed. But 75 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: the opportunities is equally spit so there's just as much 76 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: opportunity to raise insects for livestock feed based on wage 77 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: substrates that make you that are available, that should be used, 78 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: that should be utilized as a resource um as there 79 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: is for insects to be farmed for human can assumption. 80 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: I think you have hit on a point that's accurate, 81 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: and it is a challenge of the industry. Is that 82 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: for centuries, insects are bad is a deeply ingrained understanding 83 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: in pretty much most of most cultures, and that is 84 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: a barrier to consumption or adoption. Is that cultural conversation 85 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: and how do we bring these products to market when 86 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: we've been told for our whole lives that having an 87 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: insect in your food is really bad. But I don't 88 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: think that that's as unsurmountable a challenge as as actually 89 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: the farming side, to be perfectly frank, I think the 90 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: farming getting people to commercial capacity in an industry that's 91 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: as new as it is, is actually the greater challenge. Now, 92 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: at an event at the Australian National University, you were 93 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: a panist, I was there. We dined, among other things, 94 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: on crocodile loin, on seaweed. That's before we got to 95 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: the worms which were an optional extra to talk about 96 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: the croc not typically something urban nights would eat. What's 97 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: the appeal there and is it broadly part of the 98 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: same movement that gets us bug astronomy? Yeah, I think 99 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: you know, Australians have been eating crocodile what since the nineties, 100 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: but it's never really taken I don't know if it's 101 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: ever really made it into mainstream. You can find it 102 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: in your regular grocery stores, but it's not like there's 103 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: not lots of it. There's just sort of a little 104 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: bit off to the side. But yeah, I think the 105 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: challenge with food is we don't know how to cook it. 106 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: Our parents teach us how to cook or our peers 107 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: and and so that our understanding of what to cook 108 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: and what we bring into our homes when we leave 109 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: home is generally what we've been taught. And so culturally, 110 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, Greek and so I was raised on Greek 111 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: type foods and that's what I teach my children how 112 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: to make. And so when confronted by crocodile, don't know 113 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: what to do with it, it showed actually to be 114 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: frank I found not that you were responsible for preparing 115 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: that meal, but but you know, you've brought me to 116 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: my next point, which is, you know, the meal worms 117 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: that were an optional extra. I indulged in them, and 118 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: I found them pretty unoffensive. It wasn't the world's strongest taste, 119 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: but they were okay. I found at that meal the 120 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: crocodile to be pretty ordinary, fairly tasteless, quite rubbery and texture. Now, 121 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: after leaving lunch, walking back to the main conference session, 122 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: I did feel a certain spring in my step. Were 123 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: those worms doing something for me that I was not 124 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: aware of as I ate them? Obviously, I think you 125 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: would probably luck just glad to be moving, most likely 126 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: because that was quite a dense meal. The meal webs 127 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: are sixty A protein, and so maybe you ingested extra 128 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: protein you felt better for it. But I don't know 129 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: if I should take full responsibility for your demeanor after lunch. 130 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: The crocodile. I think it was a true example of 131 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: the challenges of new things. It wasn't cooks particularly well. 132 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: That's not normally how crocodile tastes um. But you know, 133 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: if you aren't used to dealing with that meat, it's 134 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: quite hard to manage it. And it's the same you know, 135 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: if I gave meal worms to somebody who'd never eat 136 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: them to it before, how would they know how to 137 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: cook it? So I think that's where you're using the 138 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: product in fastness. Moving consumer goods is easier because it's 139 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: already conveyed in a product that you can consume. We 140 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: can put it into chips and bars and things, and 141 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: that makes sense to us. We already eat those things. Um, 142 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: and it sort of is a good entry as far 143 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: as you're looking at market demographics, because you're generally paleo 144 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: eaters or vegan eaters or slow food eaters. Those people 145 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: who have already committed to specific types of eating are 146 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: more readily engaged in adopting new products that fit their ethos, 147 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: not necessarily their palates or what they like to eat. 148 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: So so one more question from me, Olympia, if I 149 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: heard you correctly earlier, you said that you're not necessarily 150 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: worried about demand in your line of business. It's more 151 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: the supply, getting the capacity for farming to meet what 152 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: you think is going to be strong demand. What is 153 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: business like in your company and in your industry? Is it? 154 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: Is it growing at a very rapid rate? Can you 155 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: can you give us any numbers? Sure? So the industry 156 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: globally is expected to both in food, so insects for 157 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: food production and in sex for feed production. Both expect 158 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: to have a hundred percent growth over the next two 159 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: years to both reach a billion dollar industry, and so 160 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: that's pretty speedy given how long the industry has been around. 161 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: And those things are about the fact that we've got 162 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: farms in Canada and Europe and the US who are 163 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: currently at commercial commodity capacity and can produce those commercial 164 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: commodity quantities, and so we're now seeing these products get 165 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: to market for people to consume, and that's lifting the 166 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:48,239 Speaker 1: entire industry as it goes Olympia. What role are robots 167 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: playing in your business? Yeah, so we have designed a 168 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: robotic modular system for farming insects. The nature of Australian 169 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: and agriculture and how the demographic of our land mass, 170 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: how we are spread out with with cities quite far 171 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: distances from each other, and we have these regional hubs 172 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: that are almost isolated, so you'll drives and suddenly there's 173 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: fifty people living in the middle of nowhere. When you 174 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: consider using insects to eat waste or waste streams, that 175 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: means you it's a better option to move b where 176 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: the waste is than it is to be trying to 177 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: truck waste to you, so you can raise insects. So 178 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: I created a robotic system to farm insects on site 179 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: where waste is created. It can form either black soldier 180 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: fly or meal worm, and we will be commercializing that 181 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: product in the next d eighteen months and getting it 182 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: out into trials. But what that will mean for us 183 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: and our goal of where these end up being is 184 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: that we can put them under shopping malls where large 185 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: volumes of waste, certain food waste, of being thrown away, 186 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: and they can consume that waste on site using insects 187 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: without the need for human interaction or human intervention, which 188 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: is generally where you find challenges with employment and certainly 189 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: manually raising insects on food waste is not economically viable 190 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: in an industrialized world country. So robots managing food waste 191 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: under shopping malls. So this is an instance where robots 192 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: are assisting you with your disruption of the food industry. Yes, 193 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: so we're disrupting waste management, which is an industry that 194 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: hasn't been disrupted in its existence. So even though we 195 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: have different ways of managing waste. Bioreactors and all those 196 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: different new methods, we still pick up waste from one 197 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: location and drag it or truck it to another and 198 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: manage it in an an alternate location to where it 199 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: was created. Um. We believe that those mechanisms of managing 200 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: waste are becoming more and more prohibitive, mostly around the 201 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: cost of petrol and trucking, but also around the need 202 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: to keep regional communities vibrant and industry based in regional areas. 203 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: And so for us, it's about decentralizing waste management and 204 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: keeping it close to its region rather than dragging it 205 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: across country for management. We think that's a more viable 206 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: way to move into a future. Well, Olympia, thanks for 207 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: joining us and good luck to you. Thank you so 208 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: much for having me. It has been fun. So that's 209 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: our on the ground or in the ground perspective. Now 210 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: let's go Agnesca do SUSA in London. Aggie, thanks for 211 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: joining us. When you researched and reported bugs are coming 212 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: soon to your dinner table? What really struck you? So? 213 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: While researching from my article, what I didn't expect to 214 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: find is how many people there were committed to insect farming, 215 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: particularly here in Europe. I thought this was very Asian 216 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: oriented industry. You know, there are at least twenty thousand 217 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: farms in Thailand. Insects are a popular food in that region. 218 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: So I thought that if if we were to consume 219 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: insects here in Europe, that would still be imported from Asia. 220 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: And what I discovered was that actually people here are 221 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: more and more committed to rearing insects locally. What I 222 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: found surprising was to to meet people who who had 223 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: other jobs in the past, other careers, uh, city dwellers 224 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: or who would hear about this possibility and that would 225 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: just completely make make a career change and switch to 226 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: insects insect farming. And at the same time it was 227 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: it was interesting to find people as well who would 228 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: such as the Sconing family who are traditional farmers and 229 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: learned about this possibility that they could actually do it 230 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: in Finland and and we're willing to take that opportunity. 231 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: What about the financial incentives for the farmers to get 232 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: into this field or the city folk that you you discussed. 233 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: Is it becoming a lucrative business or is it is 234 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: it already there? It's a slow journey. I think you are. 235 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: You're seeing people who are committed because they believe in it, 236 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: but they do acknowledge that right now, it's not going 237 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: to be a lucrative business straightaway. It's a very young industry, 238 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: particularly here in Europe or in the West in general. 239 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: So so you know, because it's quite small, you do 240 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: not have the economy of scale. The production costs are 241 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: going to be much higher than what you obtain in Asia. 242 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: So so, just to give you example, you know, the 243 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: price of crickets or cricket flower in Europe and North 244 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: America can be as much as five times the price 245 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: of the same product farmed in Asia, in Thailand specifically, 246 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: So so you have to wait. You have to see 247 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: more investment in technology. You need to see the economy 248 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: scale achieved in order to actually bring the production costs 249 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: down and be able to sell the product at the 250 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: appropriate price. So so so that takes time. But I 251 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: think you know, as as the demand picks up, you know, 252 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: many of these people hope that they will be able 253 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: to achieve good profits at the end of it. So 254 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: let's talk more broadly about this. This is not just 255 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: farmers shifting from livestock to bugs because say they're having 256 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: a midlife crisis. What are the economic forces that are 257 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: making this a real business proposition. One attractive thing about 258 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: insects farming is how few resources they use, So you know, 259 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: insect faring doesn't require as much land that then they're 260 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: so tiny you can just keep them in you know, 261 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, a very compact place. You know, they do 262 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: not require huge water resources. You know, in terms of that, 263 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: I think that really helps. Then in terms of the feed, 264 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: you know, you need to be feeding them in order 265 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: to to rear them. And if you look had the 266 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: feed conversion ratio, you know the amount of feed you 267 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: need to get in order to produce one kilogram of 268 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: let's say cricket that is five times smaller than what 269 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: you require for beef. What role does climate change and 270 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: population growth play A big one, because more and more 271 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: consumers are aware of the impact traditional livestock traditional meat 272 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: sector has on the environment. Where aware that rearing cattle 273 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: contributes to climate change. It is a major source of 274 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: greenhouse gas emissions. So more and more consumers are trying 275 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: to adjust their diets. They're more aware environmentally conscious, and 276 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,719 Speaker 1: they want to through their dietary choices they want to 277 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: bring about the change. So insects are a good proposition 278 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: because you know they are not emitting as huge quantities 279 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: of greenhouse gas guys this as pigs or cows. So 280 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: so definitely, this is something that many people are watching 281 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: when when they reach out for protein. And and another 282 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: thing is we are more and more aware that you know, 283 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: the population will continue to increase. We're expecting to reach 284 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: the population of nine billion by twenty fifty, and we 285 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: are aware that we're going to have to increase our 286 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: food supplies by at least fifty by that time. And 287 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: because our global resources are limited, we are um and 288 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: and scientists and organizations and and food companies are trying 289 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: to find the answers, how are we going to do it? 290 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: How are we going to find those alternative proteins? And 291 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: you do have certain options. For example, you have meat alternatives. 292 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: So you hear about love grown meat or plant based 293 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: products that resemble meat, that smell like meat or taste 294 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: like meat. But we but but we know, you know, 295 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: we are still far from this um mass production of 296 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: such products, and we know they cost a lot, so 297 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: so so you know, it makes you think you know, 298 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: perhaps insects could be that that alternative, given that they're 299 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: actually very high in protein. Aggie. In your article, you 300 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: write about a couple of restaurants in Finland that are 301 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: serving crickets on their menu, and you also discuss how 302 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: ground up crickets, for example, can be made into I 303 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: guess the kind of powder that could be added to 304 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: foods like sausages, cookies, muffins, tofu and even ice cream. 305 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: Is this actually happening already in some of the foods 306 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: in our grocery store or you know, when when is 307 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: this supposed to start really hitting the mainstream. So some 308 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: cricket flower or insect flower is it's a very fast 309 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: growing segment of the market. Its ground up crickets. They 310 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: don't taste of much and and they don't look like insects, 311 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: so it helps consumers to overcome this echy the factor. 312 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: You know, it's much easier to consume an insect for 313 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: many people if if the product doesn't look like an insect, 314 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: particularly here in the West. So you're seeing more and 315 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: more products that use that contain the flower, and the 316 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: most common one these days that you actually already see 317 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: in supermarkets. Um, maybe more the the niche supermarkets, or 318 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: the the organic or the vegan focused was or the 319 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: you know the health that the health stores. You do 320 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: see energy bars, so you know, so this is aimed 321 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: at people who work out and you know, people who 322 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: just meet a snack. Have you tried any any of 323 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: these products? Yeah? I did. I did. Actually, they don't 324 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: taste of insects. It didn't strike me as um as 325 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: anything different because insect flower accounts for ten percent of 326 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: the products, so if you actually look at the ingredients, 327 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: it's not the majority of what you get in the bar. 328 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: And then you know, I tried licorice that was a 329 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: finished product. I tried crackers, so you know, once it's 330 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: ground up, you know, you just you can just consume 331 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: it like as if it was any any other product. 332 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: So I think the appeal here is more nutrition driven 333 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: rather than taste driven. Aggie, thanks for joining us. Well, 334 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: thank you. My Pleasure Benchmark will be back next week. 335 00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: Until then, you can find us on the Bloomberg term, 336 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, or Bloomberg app, as well as podcast 337 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: destinations such as Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. 338 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: We'd love it if you took the time to rate 339 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: and review the show so more listeners can find us, 340 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: and you can find us on Twitter follow me at 341 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: scott Landman Dan. You're at Moss on the School ecode 342 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: our guest Olympia Yargur is at go Tera Underscore CEO, 343 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: and Aggie Ta Susa is at Aggie Ta SUSA. Benchmark 344 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: is produced by tofor Foreheads. The head of Bloomberg Podcasts 345 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: is Francesco Levie. Thanks for listening, See you next time.