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Speaker 1: Do you guys have Spotify, Yeah, like the one that

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Speaker 1: comes with my phone. I don't know how to use

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Speaker 1: the extra parts of it. It comes with my phone, doesn't

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Speaker 1: it have you?

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Speaker 2: It doesn't come with your phone.

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Speaker 1: I didn't download it. It's just on my phone.

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Speaker 3: Well, Danielle, have you noticed the new day List feature?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 5: Okay?

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Speaker 3: So they used to do something called like a daily Mix,

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Speaker 3: and they would.

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Speaker 2: Make every much of them.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, now they just have something called the day

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Speaker 3: List and if you click on it every couple hours,

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Speaker 3: it updates and it makes a new list for you

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Speaker 3: of like what it recommends based on what you've been

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Speaker 3: listening to.

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Speaker 2: Look, I got it. I just opened it and it

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Speaker 2: says new music for you, and then it's a single

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Speaker 2: but it's sponsored.

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Speaker 3: No, you got to go to day List and it

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Speaker 3: actually them.

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Speaker 5: So I want to do two Truths in a Lie.

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Speaker 3: Where my day List, Yes, because they have been remarkable

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Speaker 3: and I want to see if you guys can spot

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Speaker 3: the lie. Uh So we played two Truths in a

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Speaker 3: Lie when we would do our live show, but I

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Speaker 3: don't think we've done it on the podcast, or maybe

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Speaker 3: we have one once or twice.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, so two of these.

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Speaker 3: Are real, okay, titles for collections of music that Spotify

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Speaker 3: has recommended for me based on my listening taste, and

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Speaker 3: I guess my personality, and one of them is a lie.

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 3: Is this a day list created by Spotify for right

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Speaker 3: or strong Granola Vibes Van Life Friday Afternoon?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god? Wait, is that the name of the

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Speaker 2: playlist or that's the name of a song.

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Speaker 5: No, that's the name.

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Speaker 3: It creates the playlist and you click on it and

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Speaker 3: it tells you what it's created for you.

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Speaker 1: That has to be real.

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Speaker 3: Number two okay, Cottage Core, Crunchy Folk Tuesday Night or

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Speaker 3: Sleeping in Sad Girl.

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Speaker 5: Indy Thursday Afternoon.

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Speaker 1: Oh all, I want them all to be real and

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Speaker 1: all to be lies. Oh it's magical. I think the

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Speaker 1: first one, the Crunchy Van Life, has the granola Crunchy

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Speaker 1: Van Life, but it's so on the note.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't crunchy, it was Granola Vibes Van Life Friday

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Speaker 3: after the other one was Cottage Core, Crunchy.

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Speaker 5: Folk Tuesday Night.

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Speaker 3: It's crunch or Sleeping in Sad Girl Indy Thursday Afternoon.

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Speaker 1: Oh insad, I'm gonna Oh god, they're all magic.

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Speaker 6: I know.

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Speaker 5: I almost wanted to do three lies because there was

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Speaker 5: just there was good for.

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Speaker 1: A part of me. See, this is where I get

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Speaker 1: the rider's head, because part of me wants thinks that

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Speaker 1: first one you're using not to throw us in. The

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Speaker 1: last two are reel. But I think the Van Life

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say the lie is the

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Speaker 1: middle one. I think Van Life and Indie are true

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Speaker 1: and the middle one is the lie.

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Speaker 2: That's I completely agree with you. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: the second one is actually my favorite, my favorite name,

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Speaker 2: which is the reason why I suspect writer created it,

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Speaker 2: because it's like poetry. The other two are just slightly

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Speaker 2: ai enough, but I think they're right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, you guys go, but cottage Core and Crunchy have

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Speaker 3: come up so many times. So another real one was

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Speaker 3: Happy Folk Crunchy Wednesday afternoon, Oh my god. Another le

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Speaker 3: one was Mountain Home Tuesday night.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, I have one called mood Swing Teddy Bear

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Speaker 2: Friday morning.

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Speaker 5: There you go.

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Speaker 3: It's perfect.

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Speaker 1: Do you have to pay for these?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 3: It's well if you have to pay for Spotify, But

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Speaker 3: if you have, but no, won't. It'll update every three hours.

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Speaker 3: So just write that one down because I had to

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Speaker 3: start writing these down because you can't access the old ones.

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Speaker 3: It keeps updating based on what you listen to. So

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Speaker 3: you're in a mood swing, You're in a mood swing,

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Speaker 3: Teddy Bear World whatever?

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Speaker 1: Wait, where does this? Where do you find them?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 3: You go to Spotify It When you go to a playlists,

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Speaker 3: it has something called day list, and when you click

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Speaker 3: on day List, it gives you the name of your

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Speaker 3: current day list and it'll keep updating every three hours

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Speaker 3: or so. And every time I click on it, I'm like, Wow,

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Speaker 3: this is hysterical and.

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Speaker 5: By the way, pretty accurate.

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Speaker 3: Like what I want.

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Speaker 5: It nails me pretty much every time.

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Speaker 2: You know, what's interesting is that all morning I've been

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Speaker 2: listening to like twenty seconds of songs because we're trying

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Speaker 2: to pick what song we're gonna do for rock and

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Speaker 2: roll Holliday.

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Speaker 3: That's why it's a mood swings all over in a place.

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Speaker 3: My god, stop drinking.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, that's great.

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Speaker 5: It's amazing.

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Speaker 3: You will have so much fun just clicking and being like,

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Speaker 3: oh yep.

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Speaker 2: Firefox Friday Morning.

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Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, Crunchy is big for me. Cottage course comes

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Speaker 3: up all the time.

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Speaker 5: The hell is cottage?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, crunchy. It just so'm like crunchy granola hippie.

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Speaker 1: Are you guys on premium? Is that? Are you paying

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Speaker 1: for this?

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Speaker 4: Is that?

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Speaker 1: That's what it is. I just watched all my music

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Speaker 1: on YouTube. There you go, I do It's well.

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Speaker 5: Then you don't get the joy.

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Speaker 2: I love my scription. Yeah, welcome to Pod Meets World.

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Speaker 2: I'm mood swing Teddy Bear Friday morning.

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Speaker 3: I'm happy full crunchy Wednesday Rider.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not on premium Spotify. I'm will for now.

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Speaker 2: We will be taping a live episode of Pod Meets

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Speaker 2: World at Disney California Adventure Park on December fourth, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five.

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Speaker 1: If you live in the Southern California area or if

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Speaker 1: you can be in the Southern California area on December fourth,

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Speaker 1: we have an opportunity for you to join us.

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Speaker 2: Between now and November twenty fourth of twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: you can enter for your chance to win tickets to

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Speaker 2: attend the Coast one oh three point five private holiday

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Speaker 2: Party at Disney California Adventure Park on December fourth, twenty

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Speaker 2: hotel for a family of four and two day, one

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Speaker 2: Adventure Park.

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Speaker 3: Plus you'll have a chance to meet us while we're

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Speaker 3: taping an episode of Pod Meets World inside Disney California

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Speaker 3: Adventure Park.

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Speaker 1: Visit Coast one O three five dot com forward slash

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Speaker 1: Pod Meets World Now to enter for your chance to win.

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Speaker 2: We've mentioned Dawson's Creek many times on this podcast, and

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Speaker 2: not just because it was a tent pole show for

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Speaker 2: its decade, but because we knew that eighty percent of

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Speaker 2: writers time on the Boy Meets World set was spent

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Speaker 2: daydreaming about what it would like to be on a

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Speaker 2: real show like Dawson's Creek. Whether it was the complicated,

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Speaker 2: relatable relationship of Dawson and Joey Pacey's never ending journey

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Speaker 2: for purpose, or the themes of identity, independence, and friendship.

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Speaker 2: They were handling real storylines and looking beautiful while doing it.

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Speaker 2: Did they share the screen with a bear while covered

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Speaker 2: in honey?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: But to be fair, I'm not yet sure I did either.

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Speaker 2: And this week's guest may have just been the Dawson's

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Speaker 2: Creek character with the most responsibility when it came to

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Speaker 2: important and culturally significant storylines. When he moved to Los

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Speaker 2: Angeles in his twenties, it took only seven weeks to

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Speaker 2: book his first job, a lead on the soap opera

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Speaker 2: As the World Turns, which then quickly turned into the

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Speaker 2: role of a lifetime Jack McPhee, the new kid in

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Speaker 2: Cape Side for season two, catching Joey's attention and putting

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Speaker 2: the most important relationship in CW network history in limbo,

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Speaker 2: and then came one of the most iconic smooches and

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Speaker 2: TV history when his romantic scene with love interest Ethan

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Speaker 2: became the first same sex kiss between two men in

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Speaker 2: network television history, a milestone by all accounts that we

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Speaker 2: can thankfully now say wouldn't even make the news like

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Speaker 2: it did back in the year two thousand. He recently

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Speaker 2: participated in a spectacular charity event on Broadway, breaking the

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Speaker 2: Internet while reuniting the cast of Dawson's Creek to raise

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Speaker 2: money for the f Cancer charity in the name of

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Speaker 2: their co star James Vanderbeek, who's currently battling co erectoral cancer,

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Speaker 2: and now he's set to release a memoir in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty six, all about his time on the show titled

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Speaker 2: I Don't want to wait My journey on Dawson's Creek

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Speaker 2: without a paddle. So it feels like maybe he's on

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Speaker 2: his own podmeats world style journey and we can't wait

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Speaker 2: to talk to him about it. So welcome to the podcast,

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Speaker 2: a man who made history on the show writer actually

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Speaker 2: wanted to be on. It's cur Smithy. Hello, welcome, Thank

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Speaker 2: you for being here.

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Speaker 4: With us, guys. Good to see you again.

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Speaker 2: Good to see you. Well, I just want to get

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Speaker 2: this out of the way now because all of us

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Speaker 2: were aggressively jealous of you in the nineties. We used

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Speaker 2: to look at being on Dawson's Creek as a bit

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Speaker 2: of our dream job. Did you know how meaty it

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Speaker 2: seemed to the rest of us, you know, kid actors

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Speaker 2: at the time.

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Speaker 4: That's the first I'm hearing of it.

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Speaker 2: Well, we all really wanted to be doing what you

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Speaker 2: guys were doing.

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Speaker 1: I guessing you never opened your script and went, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm sneezing the lottery numbers this week.

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Speaker 4: Hey, you guys were doing it a good decade before

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Speaker 4: we were.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Let's start with getting into your origin story.

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Speaker 2: You were raised in Pennsylvania. Were you acting in high

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Speaker 2: school at all? Did you have any child actor aspirations?

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Speaker 4: I did a little bit. I remember this tenth grade.

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Speaker 4: It was a it was a combination of lit class

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Speaker 4: and an acting class, same teacher, and what this was

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Speaker 4: in sophomores, and the kids would write these children's plays,

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Speaker 4: and then the acting class that I was in, we

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Speaker 4: picked the best ones and then we'd go around and

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Speaker 4: we perform them for all the elementary schools in our district.

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Speaker 4: And that was really my first experience with acting and

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Speaker 4: kind of got the bug right around then.

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Speaker 2: But you didn't move out to LA until you were

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Speaker 2: in your mid twenties? Is that right?

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Speaker 4: Oh? La, I'd say twenty seven, twenty eight years old.

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Speaker 4: I was in New York for since I started acting

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Speaker 4: in ninety five, when I was in New York for

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Speaker 4: three years before I moved out that way.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So were you doing theater in New York?

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Speaker 5: Is that how you got in?

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Speaker 4: No? I was on it was on As the World Turns.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so As the worldlind I was over there and gotcha,

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Speaker 2: I mean you When you did move out to LA,

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Speaker 2: it only took seven weeks for you. No, No, that

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Speaker 2: was in New York. It only took you seven weeks

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Speaker 2: to book your first job on As the World Turns?

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: You had it right the first time. It took me

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Speaker 4: nine months to get my first job in New York

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Speaker 4: with no agent, by the way, and you know I

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Speaker 4: did my own deal with with CBS on that and.

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Speaker 3: She's kept that kept that's great.

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Speaker 4: Guys, it was. It was a crap deal, don't I

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Speaker 4: don't recommend it.

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Speaker 1: It's like representing yourself in a murder trial.

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Speaker 4: It probably well, yeah, bad call. And then I just said,

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Speaker 4: because I knew one of the guys on the show

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Speaker 4: and he was like, hey, there's this great part. Want you.

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Speaker 4: I can get you an audition, And when I ended

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Speaker 4: up getting a damn thing, and I'm like, just you know,

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Speaker 4: just give me whatever you got him give him. And

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Speaker 4: he got a bad deal too, So we're like, all right,

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Speaker 4: but Danielle, so you had it right the first time.

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Speaker 4: So nine months in New York, But yes, when I

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Speaker 4: landed in Venice Beach, it took about seven week You

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Speaker 4: guys want to hear crazy story real quick? Please?

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Speaker 5: All right?

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Speaker 4: So in ninety eight, spring of ninety eight and I

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Speaker 4: decided New York, I'm done. I got to go to

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Speaker 4: l A. I've never been there, scared to sell load

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Speaker 4: up the U haul with everything that I own, which

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Speaker 4: is like, you know, half the truck in the school,

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Speaker 4: and then I've got the girlfriend in there too. And

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Speaker 4: of course, if you've ever done that drive, you got

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Speaker 4: four days, three days coming off fast to drive and

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Speaker 4: do a lot of thinking. So you know, I'm this

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Speaker 4: new green actor, hasn't done much at all, and I'm thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 4: what are the two shows, like, what are the couple

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Speaker 4: of shows that I'd really want to do? You know,

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Speaker 4: if I had my pick? If the Stars the line

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Speaker 4: that had my pick, and I was I was a

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Speaker 4: big fan of Party five at the time. They were

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Speaker 4: kind on the tail end of their you know, they're run,

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Speaker 4: but I'm like, you know, that'd be a great show

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Speaker 4: to do. And there was this other show that I

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Speaker 4: had seen the pilot with this girl climbing up the

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Speaker 4: ladder into this dude's window, and I, you know, and

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Speaker 4: I remember watching the pilot Dawson's and thinking this thing

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Speaker 4: is going to be a huge hit, And you know,

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Speaker 4: a couple of months later, sure enough, it was everybody

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Speaker 4: really started to love it, and I'm like, I would love,

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Speaker 4: you know, on that show. So I I obsessed about

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Speaker 4: those two programs for four days. That's just how I

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Speaker 4: was back then, just hyper focused. I roll into La.

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Speaker 4: My first appointment this is Crazy was for Party five Wow.

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Speaker 4: And it wasn't a big role either. It was it

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Speaker 4: was to play Neb's boyfriend. I think one of the

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Speaker 4: London I think Jeremy London ended up getting it. I

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Speaker 4: screwed that audition off. It was terrible. I mean I

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Speaker 4: was nervous. It was my first big one in LA.

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Speaker 4: You know how it goes. And then a couple of

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Speaker 4: weeks later, I had a general appointment, And for you,

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Speaker 4: for your listeners, a general is basically it's not an audition.

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Speaker 4: You just go in and it's a meet and greet.

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Speaker 4: I'm new in town, I am Curve, who I'm all about?

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Speaker 4: Blah blah blah blah blah. And it was with Kathleen Lettery,

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Speaker 4: who was, as you know, the head casting director of

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Speaker 4: the WB back then, and uh we just talked, not

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Speaker 4: even not acting, for like thirty minutes. I remember sitting

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Speaker 4: in her office on the couch. I get up, Thank

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Speaker 4: you very much, and I thought it went okay, and

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Speaker 4: she goes out. You know, I'll never hear from this

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Speaker 4: woman again, And sure enough, before I got to the door,

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Speaker 4: she says her, I don't know what it is, but

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Speaker 4: I'm going to find a place for you on our network.

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Speaker 5: Jeez.

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Speaker 4: Cut to a couple of weeks later and five auditions,

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Speaker 4: I'm on Dawson's Creek.

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Speaker 5: Wow, so cool?

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, you want to talk about manifestation there is?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Did you think, oh, this just must want to be

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Speaker 2: like this is what it's like for people who moved

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Speaker 2: to LA and want to become out. Did you know

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Speaker 2: how crazy it was?

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Speaker 4: I knew how special a situation it was, and I

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Speaker 4: knew how I was blessed. Really, so I felt that.

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Speaker 1: Well, you said five auditions later? Was it five random

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Speaker 1: auditions or did you have to audition five times for

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Speaker 1: Dawson's Creek. I think I read because you know, back

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Speaker 1: then we were I was reading for the casting director

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Speaker 1: out of the gate, and then you did, you know,

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Speaker 1: do the producer's meeting and whatever. I think I probably

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Speaker 1: did three of those, and then of course I had

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Speaker 1: the network and studio at Tesse.

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Speaker 4: I thought, wow, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wow, And so you were. You said you were about

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Speaker 2: twenty seven to twenty eight, but you were playing sixteen

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Speaker 2: on the show.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: Meredith and I were the old guys on the show,

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Speaker 4: the mcfees we came in. Yeah, we were both in

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Speaker 4: our late twenties and everybody else. Michelle was fifteen when

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Speaker 4: she started, right man Right.

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Speaker 2: We had a similar situation on our show with Trina,

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Speaker 2: who played Angela. She was twenty six at the time

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Speaker 2: that she joined. She had two kids, she was pregnant

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Speaker 2: with her third, and we were all teenagers.

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Speaker 1: She was making out with Ryder, who's seventeen.

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Speaker 2: Guys, did you have an easy time blending in with

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Speaker 2: the younger cast who already had a season together under

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Speaker 2: their belt once you got to North Carolina?

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Speaker 4: You know, I was nervous. It was nice going into

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Speaker 4: it with Meredith. She started one episode before me, but

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Speaker 4: we came down to Wilmington the same time, so we

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Speaker 4: went through that whole casting process together too, So that

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Speaker 4: helped integrating, integrating into a cast of four that had

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Speaker 4: I mean, we'd only done thirteen you remember that first

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Speaker 4: season was the season replacement, so they hadn't done that many.

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Speaker 4: But the show was a hit over the summer, it

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Speaker 4: just became huge. And I remember getting out of the

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Speaker 4: truck and I think one of the first people I

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Speaker 4: saw was Josh and I remember I'm saying, it is, dude,

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Speaker 4: give it two months, get ready, your life's going to change.

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh, sure enough, it did. But it

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Speaker 4: was to answer your question, Daniel was super easy. I mean,

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Speaker 4: everybody jelled together really nicely. You know, it just worked.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome.

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Speaker 5: Good.

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Speaker 2: How was it handling that kind of spotlight? At the time,

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Speaker 2: there were SNL spoofs, rolling stone covers there. It was

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Speaker 2: a lot. How did you guys handle all that?

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Speaker 4: Uh? We just here's the cool What did you guys shoot?

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Speaker 4: Were you in La Yeah? Yeah, okay, So being in Wilmington,

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Speaker 4: it's like you're not in Hollywood. You're in it's like

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Speaker 4: a camp type of atmosphere, is how I always say

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Speaker 4: it something or just a bubble, and you don't really

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Speaker 4: know what's going on because you're working so much and

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Speaker 4: you know, you were in all these hours and you

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Speaker 4: just I didn't I don't pay attention to the publicity

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Speaker 4: and all that, so I didn't really know what was

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Speaker 4: going on until you start you go to the grocery

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Speaker 4: store or whatever. Then you know what's going on for

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Speaker 4: hundreds of people start showing up at set, you know,

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Speaker 4: on location in Wilmington, and there's you know, a couple

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Speaker 4: hundred people across the across the street from all over

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Speaker 4: the world. That started happening on st So then you know, okay,

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Speaker 4: we're doing something pretty cool here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you were immediately thrown into a relationship with

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Speaker 2: Joey played by Katie Holmes. You were a foil for

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Speaker 2: everyone who was shipping the Dawson Joey will they or

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Speaker 2: won't they? Did you ever run into angry.

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Speaker 4: Fans back then, you mean just getting in the way

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Speaker 4: between the.

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Speaker 2: Two of them, Yes, yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 4: Remember, because it was it was such a short lived story. Okay,

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Speaker 4: I'm sure you want to talk about this, But obviously

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Speaker 4: Kevin Mosman had different plans.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly, Yeah, in a different direction.

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Speaker 4: I mean when I was hired, you're right, was hired

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Speaker 4: to create a wedge in between Dawson and Llanster things up.

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Speaker 4: But as you know, a character like that probably is

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Speaker 4: not going to last very long. It's not very like yet. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I'm glad he went down to get the road.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you stuck around a lot longer.

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Speaker 3: Well, see if you know when you were cast that

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Speaker 3: that was the direction the character was going to know.

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Speaker 4: Okay, wow, nobody knew.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know you're going to make television history at

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Speaker 1: that point, right.

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Speaker 4: The w B didn't know. Sony didn't know the No,

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Speaker 4: none of the producers knew. It was a It was

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Speaker 4: a it was an idea in Kevin Williamson's head. That's it. Jeez. Wow. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I just had a long conversation with Kevin a few

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Speaker 4: months ago about all this, really for the first time,

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Speaker 4: because I'm in the middle of writing a book from

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Speaker 4: Dawson's Creed and Kevin was kind enough to give me

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Speaker 4: hours on hours of material and we were just talking

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Speaker 4: about the old days, and he told me how difficult

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Speaker 4: it really was to get the network to agree to

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Speaker 4: go down, you know, and have a story like that

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Speaker 4: for the first time.

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Speaker 5: Right, So did he it in his mind? And that

402
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Speaker 5: is just close to the chest.

403
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Speaker 4: So like on Dawson's every like before, Uh, the four guys,

404
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 4: they're all facets of Kevin's personality. Kevin's really Kate, you know,

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Speaker 4: and then the jokes there's Josh and you know, the

406
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Speaker 4: Brainy Guys is uh Is Dawson, and of course the

407
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Speaker 4: wild Side is Michelle. But nobody was representing his sexuality

408
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Speaker 4: at that time because he was in the closet publicly,

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Speaker 4: and he wanted to come out publicly, you know, beyond

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Speaker 4: his family and friends. And I think he wanted to

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Speaker 4: do that with Jack.

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Speaker 2: Wowow that's so beautiful. Yeah, I mean, especially for at

413
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Speaker 2: that time, it was unheard of for network TV to

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Speaker 2: see a main character have that kind of groundbreaking turn

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Speaker 2: to be revealed that he was gay. Do you remember

416
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Speaker 2: when you were first told of the storyline. How did

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Speaker 2: you learn it was going to happen.

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Speaker 4: I'll never forget. It's an entire chap in the book. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So we were shooting on location down on Front Street

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Speaker 4: in Wilmington, and I remember Kevin and Greg reading. Greg

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Speaker 4: Blandy was with him too. I flew down. I didn't

422
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Speaker 4: know this until a three months ago, but they flew

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Speaker 4: to Wilmington just to let me know what was going on.

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Speaker 4: So he shows Kevin shows up at the set and

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Speaker 4: he goes, Curry, want to get a cup of coffee.

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Speaker 4: This is like two months into the job for me.

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Speaker 4: I'm thinking, yeah, am I getting fired, yeah, that's going

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Speaker 4: on here. So I was like, yeah, sure, and on

429
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Speaker 4: the walk, I don't know why I thought of this,

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Speaker 4: but I thought of what I just told you guys

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Speaker 4: about how all the characters are different pacets of Kevin's personality,

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Speaker 4: but a sexuality wasn't represented. I knew he was dead,

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Speaker 4: so I'm thinking, I bet you he's going to ask

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Speaker 4: me if we want to make not ask me to

435
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Speaker 4: tell me, we're going to make Jack day. And that's

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Speaker 4: exactly what happened over a cup of coffee and I

437
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Speaker 4: see his exact words were, Kerr, we want to go

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Speaker 4: down to different avenue with Jack, and I went, holy

439
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 4: crap in my head. Yeah I did say it out loud. Yeah,

440
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 4: So what happened was I said, look, can you give

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Speaker 4: me the day or a couple of days, because I

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00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 4: need to make some phone calls and basically call everyone

443
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 4: that I respected their opinion of and see it. You know,

444
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,400
Speaker 4: I need to make the right decision here because at

445
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 4: that time in nineteen ninety eight, this is a tough one.

446
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know.

447
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 4: And it was a real bummer for me. Honestly, I'll

448
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 4: be honest about this. It was I was really excited

449
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 4: because I just got this, I just got my dream job, right,

450
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 4: and I'm so excited, and now I'm being asked to

451
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 4: do something very very different.

452
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and very controversial at the time. I mean hugely

453
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:48,400
Speaker 1: controversial at the time.

454
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 4: We had we had protests outside the stage, yelling and screaming.

455
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 4: There was a there was a brick wall that separated

456
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 4: me meeting my lunch from a crowd people that were

457
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 4: angry as hell. If I had walked out there, they'd

458
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 4: probably keep the crap out of me. Oh man, because

459
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 4: it was in the South too, which didn't help, right. Yeah.

460
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 4: So yeah, So I basically called everybody I knew, my dad,

461
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 4: my agent, you know, my sister, everybody, and they all

462
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 4: said do it. And one of the conversations I remember

463
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 4: the most, I asked John Wesley's ship because he was

464
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 4: there that day and we were having lunch together, and

465
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 4: he said, Cerve, he goes, do it because you will

466
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 4: get the best of Kevin Williams is right, Mmm, He's right, Yeah, jeez.

467
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 3: But part of the risk at the time I remember,

468
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 3: because I remember being asked to audition for a gay character,

469
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 3: probably even later, and you know, having my manager at

470
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 3: the time say, you know, what can happen if you

471
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 3: play a gay characters, then your type cast is only

472
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 3: gay characters. And I remember being like, really, oh, but

473
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 3: it would still was a possibility that that once you're

474
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 3: labeled as the gay actor, that's all Oh you're going

475
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 3: to ever play that's I.

476
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 4: Mean, that's all I was thinking. I mean, that's all

477
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 4: any of us would have been thinking. I was very

478
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 4: very scared. Now looking back in hindsight, im or just

479
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 4: want to say this, I'm super super proud of what

480
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 4: we pulled off because, as you know, the face of

481
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 4: television and has changed, and I think, yes, people's acceptance

482
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 4: of other people sexuality or whatever it might be is

483
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 4: much more broad and much more open these days. I mean,

484
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 4: we've got to get there on every television show now. Yes, yeah,

485
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 4: you know it's partly because of what we did that then, yeah, but.

486
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: It's also as an actor to be able to do

487
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: something anything that changes the course of history for television

488
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: and put you on the map. I mean again, people

489
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: remember that the first interracial kiss ever was done on

490
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: Star Trek right with Kirk and Ahura. People are going

491
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: to remember that you were the first gay kill. I mean,

492
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: these are this is things this is something that will

493
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: never go away, and that's really amazing to have that

494
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: kind of impact on something as huge as television.

495
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 4: Well even to this day. You know, when we do

496
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 4: these these consent that we all do together, I've got

497
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 4: there's always at least one person that flew from around

498
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 4: the world, like France, and he's back from France, comes

499
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 4: in and he's nervous as hell, and he's got this

500
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 4: whole thing written out and just you read it, and

501
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 4: it just I just flew halfway around the world just

502
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 4: to tell you this, and basically it's always the same.

503
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 4: It's I probably would not be alive had it not

504
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 4: been for Jack's storyline and what you guys did back then.

505
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 4: I know, it's it's it's insane. It happens in the

506
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 4: q and as all the time, and James and I

507
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 4: are up there together doing these it's just the only

508
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 4: I can't even say anything, guys. I just have to

509
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 4: go out in the audience to just hug whoever it is,

510
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 4: because that's all I know.

511
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, I mean as well mentioned I mean,

512
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 6: you made history a massive step for the LGBTQ plus

513
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 6: representation on TV when you kissed Ethan played by Adam Kaufman.

514
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 2: It was the first same sex network TV kiss between

515
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 2: two men. Can you tell us what the lead up

516
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: to that was like that week of rehearsal, Like, do

517
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: you remember the thoughts that you were having in your

518
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: head that week?

519
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 4: Well, there are two stories. There's my story and there's

520
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 4: a story that came from the producers and writers, which

521
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,479
Speaker 4: I just found out, I mean from my from my side,

522
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 4: it was basically just navigating these uncharted waters that you know,

523
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 4: I had never gone down before. I was super nervous.

524
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 4: You know. Adam Kaufman actually reached out to me a

525
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 4: couple of weeks ago just run it. He didn't see

526
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 4: it too nervous, but I'm going to talk to him

527
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 4: about it for the book. But yeah, it was just

528
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 4: about I wanted this to be real. Because I'll be

529
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 4: honest with you. You can use any acting technique you want,

530
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 4: I don't care what it is, substitution, whatever you want

531
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,959
Speaker 4: to do. But when you lock lips with somebody and

532
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 4: you feel the scruff, I'm not you can't take it

533
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 4: around that. It's like I know, oh yeah, so it

534
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 4: was it was hard for me. I'll be honest, it

535
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 4: was really difficult. But I just plowed through, put the

536
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 4: blinders on and just did the best that I could.

537
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 4: And what was most important to me is that we

538
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 4: didn't fall into the kind of steering clips. I told

539
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 4: Kevin this too when I agreed to do it. I said, look,

540
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 4: I'm going to play Jack straight, and I'm going to

541
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 4: let your writing make his situations make me gay. I'm

542
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 4: not going to not We're not changing anything now. Sure enough,

543
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 4: wardrobe tried to try to change my clothes and hair

544
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 4: really everything. They did change my hair a little bit,

545
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 4: which was cool because I felt my hair sucked anyway

546
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 4: in the beginning. It looked like a tupe, you know.

547
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 4: It's so that was okay, but that was the That

548
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 4: was the goal is just to play this character straight,

549
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 4: play it real, and just let the writing make, you know,

550
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 4: put them in the situations that make it gay. Now.

551
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 4: The writer producer story on that day, According to uh,

552
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 4: I think it was June that told me that they

553
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 4: were all on phones, like you know, the networks like

554
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 4: make sure the cameras across the street, and Kevin's like

555
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 4: make sure they kiss long enough, make sure the camera's

556
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 4: right in their face. So it was this battle of

557
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 4: getting they got all the shots because they didn't know

558
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 4: what the network and studio were actually going to allow,

559
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 4: and they actually ended up using something that was I

560
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 4: wouldn't say it's an extreme close up, but it's a

561
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 4: pretty good close up. Yeah, so it was everybody, you know,

562
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: I found out everybody was pretty nervous about it. Wow.

563
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: Do you remember hearing I'm sure you talked about the

564
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 2: furious fans outside just a brick wall away from you

565
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: on the flip side. Do you remember at the time

566
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 2: getting any sort of positive feedback from the LGBTQ plus community.

567
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that didn't happen until later actually, Okay started a

568
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 4: couple of years later. We started getting some accolades and

569
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 4: they were inviting me to the award ceremonies and presenting stuff.

570
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 4: I think we want a couple of things as well

571
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 4: for the show in that regard, But at the in

572
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 4: the beginning, now, I don't remember a whole lot of Uh.

573
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: Well, there's little you wonder. I would imagine there's there's

574
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: a luck factor. I guess I would say that as

575
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: this was taking place, this is pre social media, right,

576
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: so I imagine had this same thing happened during the

577
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: time of social media, it would have been a much

578
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: You would have heard from both sides instantly, the hate

579
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: and the love right away. Uh, the impact would have

580
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: been astounding and instantaneous. So there there is a safety.

581
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: We talk about this a lot. There was a safety

582
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: as an actor back in the day of not having

583
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: social media, especially when you're doing something this groundbreaking. I

584
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: mean again, you're you're in completely uncharted territory, which you

585
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: don't there's a reason it's uncharted. You don't know what's

586
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: going to happen. You have no idea what what the

587
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: response is going to be, especially on a show this

588
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: popular that. I mean, it really could have changed that

589
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: in a bad way, could have could have negatively affected

590
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: the show, and it just didn't. It went it went

591
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: the opposite direction. So yeah, yeah, thank god for no

592
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: social media at the time, especially when you're doing something

593
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: that you know is probably going to split some of

594
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: your audience off.

595
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: I agree, I would love to go back to those days. God,

596
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,239
Speaker 4: I so much more work. I know.

597
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: Well, you would appear on the show right through At

598
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: season six series finale. Was it hard to say goodbye

599
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: to a character that you had experienced so much with.

600
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, I mean, you guys know how it is,

601
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 4: season three, season four. Somewhere in there he started to

602
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 4: get the edge to do something else. But you'll also

603
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 4: realize that, you know, thank this is the dream job.

604
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 4: So you hang in there, and you know, when everybody

605
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 4: just kind of comes in agreement, like I think we're

606
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 4: done for us in season six, you gotta let go.

607
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 4: And you know, my wife and I watch Friends all

608
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 4: the time, and you know, every once in a while

609
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 4: they come across that last episode. I always, you know,

610
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 4: and their standing there and think Chandler, they wanted to

611
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 4: get a cup of coffee, and challenges are like where

612
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 4: they all walk out and that's it.

613
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

614
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I always cried every single time I see it

615
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 4: because it reminds me of what I went through on

616
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 4: that So I get that it was super sad. And

617
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 4: of course, you know, the episode itself was about Jen dying,

618
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 4: so it was that was also sad. So it was

619
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 4: it was a tough two parter to pull off. I'd

620
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 4: say those those two episodes and the one where Meredith

621
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 4: leaves and season four, I think it was that was

622
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 4: a tough one too.

623
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: Emotional episodes, different emotion, different emotion.

624
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: When you get a Dawson's Creek than you do when

625
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: we have emotional episodes of boyt Me to world, slightly

626
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: different things. I would say now curiously because again, as

627
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: Danielle said at the beginning, as actors, for the most part,

628
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: I mean I was where I was supposed to be.

629
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: But Danielle Ryder a lot of the cast were like

630
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: looking at stuff like Dawson's Creek and going that, that's

631
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: what I want to do, That's what I want to have.

632
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: Did you ever have the op? Was there ever a time,

633
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: like you say, you like friends, did you ever look at,

634
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, a three camera sitcom with an audience and

635
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: go God? Doing Dawson's Creek like shooting a movie every

636
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: day for years is fun. But man, I'd love to

637
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: do that audience show. I'd love to get in there

638
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: and be on like a regular sitcom. Was that something

639
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: that you ever wanted to do?

640
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 4: It's something I would do, but it wasn't a strong desire.

641
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 4: I've always been a drama guy. I just love it.

642
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 4: And you know what you brought a star Trek. I'm

643
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 4: always been. I'm a huge sci fi every and I

644
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: had never ever done anything in space.

645
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: Whyd you be perfect. Oh my god, you'd be a

646
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 1: perfect like young captain on a Star Trek something. Are

647
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: you kidding me?

648
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 4: I would you know a movie of these cons and

649
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 4: you know sometimes you got the Star Trek people there,

650
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 4: like I had Brent Spiner next to me a few

651
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 4: months ago, and I'm just sitting here going.

652
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

653
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: It's amazing.

654
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 4: So yes, I would very much like to do something

655
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 4: like that.

656
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: That's shocking to me because I think you'd be perfect

657
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: for a young captain kind of or or or the

658
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: New Exo something like that. Perfect. Oh my god, it's

659
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: great casting.

660
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 4: Let's put it out there.

661
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 3: Yeah at the U haul, Yeah, drive for four days, just.

662
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: Manifested the rental. Exactly, a great idea.

663
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: You're on a bit of your own pod meats world

664
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: style journey. First with the amazing cast reunion on Broadway

665
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: for f Cancer and the name of your castmate, James Vanderbeek.

666
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: All of the original cast attended. James unfortunately couldn't make it.

667
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: But what was that like? It looked very emotional.

668
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 4: It was an extremely emotional weekend and one that I

669
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 4: will never ever forget. It was really incredible to see

670
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 4: everybody after twenty five years we did get together briefly

671
00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen for that. Wow, intimately, don't think what

672
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 4: spread it was, but.

673
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: Oh when we all did those think we all did

674
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: those like that? We got together as a cast, you

675
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: got together. There was like twenty different casts.

676
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 4: A yeah, yeah, So it was good to see everybody again.

677
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 4: It was you know, Sunday morning, I woke up to

678
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 4: a voicemail from the director saying, call me, we gotta

679
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 4: we got a problem, and of course it was James

680
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 4: not being able to make it, which I mean, you know,

681
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 4: doing these cons with in the last couple of years,

682
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 4: I've really gotten to know James all over again, this

683
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 4: time as you know, fifty something year olds as adults,

684
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 4: their kids, and it's been very interesting. And this whole

685
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 4: thing he's going through is kind of hit me hard.

686
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 4: It's been tough and you know, to see a friend

687
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 4: and appeer go through all this, especially you know the

688
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 4: family that he has, which is so awesome. But so

689
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 4: you know, I'm glad Michelle. Michelle came up with the

690
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 4: idea to do that. You know, her husband is the

691
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 4: director of Hamilton, so he was kind enough to let

692
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 4: us use their stages and their crew on Monday when

693
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 4: we were down. Yeah, it was a fantastic weekend. We

694
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 4: got James to record something, so he was there spirit

695
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 4: and video. It was just incredible. Thirteen hundred people probably

696
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 4: have the best time in their lives.

697
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were.

698
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 4: It was like we were like the Beatles. It was insane.

699
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 4: It was every The way we laid it out was

700
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 4: we had these two rows of seats where we all

701
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 4: sat down, and then there was the five podiums, and

702
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 4: then when when the narrator would you know, interior Dawson's house, whatever,

703
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 4: we would walk up where it was in the scene

704
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 4: and we'd do it at the podiums. And the first

705
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 4: time that you walk up to do your first scene,

706
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 4: every single one of it, we had to stand there

707
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 4: for like twenty seconds thirty seconds until people say it,

708
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 4: because then they were just screaming. It was insane that

709
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 4: it was really fun.

710
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: That's so nice, so nice and Linn Manuel Miranda stepped

711
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 2: in for James. Do you do you think he captured

712
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: the essence of Dawson.

713
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 4: I think there's only one person that can capture Yeah. Yeah,

714
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 4: but yeah, he did a great job and we will

715
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 4: certainly appreciated of it.

716
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: Do you feel like the pilot episode held up.

717
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean it's just so raw.

718
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 4: It's so good, you know, with Miss Tomorrow and you

719
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 4: know that whole storyline was so controversial back then with

720
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 4: Josh in the Future, just you know, people loved it.

721
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 4: It was just out of the blue. And the way

722
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 4: that the characters talk like they're thirty five years old.

723
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 4: Kevin has always said it's how people would talk with

724
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 4: their heart. That their heart, which I was so is

725
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 4: a beautiful way said it better than I think, but yeah,

726
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 4: it was just yeah, it held up. To answer your.

727
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 2: Question, is there a big Dawson's Creek group text chat?

728
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 4: You mean between us?

729
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, amongst you guys.

730
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 4: I know there are many single chats from me to

731
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 4: them talking. You know, hey, do you remember what happened

732
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 4: on set twenty six years ago? Are you crazy? No?

733
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: Leave me alone?

734
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: That's our life, that's our life.

735
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 4: Come on, yeah, quote, I need something for this. This

736
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 4: I don't remember.

737
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: It's crazy y because you were going down an even

738
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: bigger trip down memory lane with your book. I don't

739
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: want to wait my journey on Dawson's Creek without a paddle.

740
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: It comes out next year. It's all about your journey

741
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 2: and your experiences on set. What is it like sending

742
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: yourself back, like your own little time machine, back to

743
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 2: certain days on set in order to write the book.

744
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 4: It's been a whirl when it's been a lot of work.

745
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 4: I think I've interviewed like twenty five something like that people, everybody,

746
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 4: And what I found out is that actors can't remember

747
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 4: everybody else can. I mean the directory, stories, the pas,

748
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 4: I mean casting everybody. Writers, The writers remember everything.

749
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: Yep.

750
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 4: It's just it was just really interesting to call everybody

751
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 4: up and do these zooms and just you know, talk

752
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 4: about the old days and how much fun we had. Yeah,

753
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 4: you guys, we had so much fun every week every

754
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 4: weekend because we were on the water, right, we would

755
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 4: as a group and this isn't just you know, the

756
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 4: five of us. We would all get together whoever was guest, starring, crew, everybody,

757
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 4: and we would jump on all the boats that anybody

758
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 4: had a boat, Jetskin's. We would congregate this place called

759
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 4: Dockside on the water. We would load up beer, hot dog,

760
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 4: you know, burghers, everything and we go out to this

761
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 4: island called mason Boro Island and we would just party

762
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 4: out all day. On the water and we did that

763
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 4: like almost every single weekend. Man, I had been trying

764
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 4: to recreate that experience for the last twenty five years

765
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 4: and I have not been do it.

766
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there is the it's the camaraderie. That's the thing.

767
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: Is we're going through the same journey, obviously, and so

768
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: where each of us are remembering little parts of it,

769
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: but all of us remember the fun. That's all it

770
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: is is that vibe, the fun, the feeling of family

771
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: and just you know, you're going through the same thing

772
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: with people that you love, and it's that's the thing

773
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: that you remember the most. And you're right, you do.

774
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: You try to chase that because it's just it's magical,

775
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: it really is.

776
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: Well, it's already already been all over the press that

777
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: in the book you talk about a script that was

778
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 2: written for a Jack and Doug spinoff. And so for

779
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 2: those listeners who don't know, Jack ends up with a

780
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: guy named Doug Witter and together they will raise Jen's

781
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: daughter Amy. So one tell us what the script is like,

782
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 2: and two tell us who we beat up? Since it

783
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: didn't happen, who.

784
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 4: We beat up? Who you beat up? Is the head

785
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 4: of Programm Against Sony that's who. That's where it's stopping. Unfortunately. Yeah,

786
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 4: it's a great script. I mean, the easiest way to

787
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 4: say it is, it's the Fosters with two dudes, and

788
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 4: you've got the aesthetic of you know, Cape site, and

789
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 4: you can bring in all the main characters for cameos.

790
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 4: But unfortunately Sony wants the main characters in it all

791
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 4: the time. That's that's right. So apparently I don't know Jack,

792
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 4: Doug and a few other derecis from michell on enough

793
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 4: to do a spin off, which is to me, is

794
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 4: crazy odd because Sony is sitting on the most valuable

795
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 4: ip out there and doing nothing with it. Yeah, you know,

796
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 4: it's it's unfortunate. So I'm hoping, you know, there'll be

797
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 4: enough pushback where the powers that be will go. I

798
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 4: think we take a second look at this, because I

799
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 4: think it'd be really fun. I would certainly do it.

800
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 4: I would love to, you know, raise a bunch of

801
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 4: rug rats and we have Jen's kid too, and we

802
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 4: raise and have a little house like Joey's or something

803
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 4: on the great Yeah.

804
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that this business doesn't know what it is anymore,

805
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: and so everybody, no one will pull the trigger on anything.

806
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: Everybody's too scared to do anything unless it's a four

807
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: million dollar Marvel movie, which they know they'll probably make

808
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 1: their money back. You're not gonna nobody's doing anything anymore.

809
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 4: My question is why are they pulling the trigger on

810
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 4: all these spin offs of what No? Two? One? Oh?

811
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 4: And somebody Who is another show that's doing not a spinoff,

812
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 4: but it's another big show that's doing one. Now they

813
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 4: are doing the bringing back they watch again, Yeah, yeah,

814
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 4: watching that, especially in like four K.

815
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 2: Finally, I am sure between the book and the reunion event,

816
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: you have been thinking a lot about Dawson's Creek. If

817
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: you could go back in time and tell yourself something

818
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: then twenty five years later, what would it be.

819
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,760
Speaker 4: Relax and enjoy, Enjoy the moment. Always enjoy the moment.

820
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 4: Try and be in the moment all the time. You know,

821
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 4: back then, I was always looking ahead and behind and

822
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 4: everywhere else I could, just to make sure that I

823
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 4: didn't make a fool myself or that. But I could,

824
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 4: and now I realize it's staying in the present moment

825
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 4: is the best absolute hm.

826
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 2: Man, Yep, we feel very much the same.

827
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: Run. We can't say what everybody says, my youth is

828
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: wasted on the young. You just you don't have the

829
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:42,479
Speaker 1: wisdom yet.

830
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, thank you so much for being here with us.

831
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: It was a pleasure to talk to you. I can't

832
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: wait to read the book right on.

833
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 4: Guys, thanks for having me appreciate it.

834
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 1: Thank you here. You know, it's always amazing to talk

835
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: to other actors, but so rare to meet one that

836
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: really does have a solid piece of television history that

837
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: will never go away. I mean, again, as being a

838
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: television junkie, that's something to be on a list of

839
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: first of whatever. Like I read a really random article

840
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: yesterday where an episode of Leave It to Beaver they

841
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: had to keep shooting and reshooting, and the network kept

842
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: pulling it because they showed the first toilet ever because

843
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: no one was ever supposed to use.

844
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,959
Speaker 2: A bathroom an offensive toilet it was.

845
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: So they had to reshoot it where you could just

846
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: see the top of the tank of the toilet. You

847
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: couldn't actually, So it's like any any time you hit

848
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: one of those milestones. So you know, first interracial kiss

849
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: huge star Trek, the first gay kiss ever on Cara.

850
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's got a piece of television history forever?

851
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 5: Are there any of those left there?

852
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 3: Anything that's not been on television that still will be?

853
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: Who knows? I mean there was like because remember like

854
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: the old school shows the husband and wife never shared

855
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: a band.

856
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 2: I mean, what about the first prime network TV thrupple.

857
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 5: There you go, that's been done.

858
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: Though, you know what, you know it'll be you know

859
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: how disgusting we're becoming. It's going to become the first

860
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: actual death on TV. Yeah, it'll be something like that,

861
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: Like we're really going to film it. It'll be something

862
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: horrible because all the good stuff is basically all the

863
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: things that show progress in some way are pretty much

864
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: I think you're right, they're pretty much gone.

865
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 6: Right.

866
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: A really interesting, really smart idea too, for him to

867
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 2: write a book, you know, like every everyone's starting a podcast. Yeah,

868
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 2: how many people are writing books?

869
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, we should do this podcast.

870
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 3: Sounds like he's going about it the right way to

871
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 3: interviewing other people, like as opposed to just what do

872
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: I remember, let me just talk about myself. He's like

873
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 3: really trying to get the story from everybody else.

874
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 5: I think that's really smart.

875
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean he took the idea of a

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Speaker 2: podcast and said, let's put it in words, you know, like,

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00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: let's it's.

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Speaker 1: Like a written podcast. Why I didn't know that was

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Speaker 1: a thing, Like they made a book out of that. Amazing.

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Speaker 2: Thank you all for listening to this episode of Pod

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00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: Meets World as all. You can follow us on Instagram

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00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails

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00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: pod meets World Show at gmail dot com. And we've

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00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:07,760
Speaker 2: got merch.

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00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to merch.

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00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 2: For your merch to me, merchie.

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Speaker 5: Merchie, merch rchie. I don't know is that a good thing.

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00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 3: We're gonna have to find out.

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00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 2: Pod Meets Worldshow dot com writer send us out.

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00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 5: We love you all, pod dismissed.

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00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 3: Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast producer hosted by

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00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 3: Danielle Fischel, Wilfredell and Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Carp

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00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 3: and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo,

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00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 3: producer and editor, Tarasubach, producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and Boy

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Speaker 3: meets World Superman Easton Allen. Our theme song is by

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00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 3: Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at podmeets

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00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 3: World Show or email us at podmeets World Show at

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00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 3: gmail dot com.