Speaker 1: Look Marier, Oh, I see you, my own my Bowen.
Speaker 1: Look over there is that culture. Yes, goodness, we lost culture,
Speaker 1: ding Dong, ding Dong.
Speaker 2: Lost culturistas calling was that the first time we were
Speaker 2: ever out of sync? Boats well, honestly, boats very well.
Speaker 2: You know what I was distracted thinking about.
Speaker 3: Uh huh. I'm surrounded by tops. We've got service tops,
Speaker 3: camera tops, publicist top.
Speaker 2: You know, can I reveal something about Bowen Yang? This
Speaker 2: is the this is the big thing that I wanted
Speaker 2: to reveal on this podcast the other day in a
Speaker 2: personal text exchange. So that's how you know it's real
Speaker 2: because we never lie to each other. It's only ever transparent, real,
Speaker 2: honest and more. Bowen goes. I think I legitimately might
Speaker 2: be by, which is not the same thing as being
Speaker 2: a top. Yeah, but the girl talking about you are
Speaker 2: conflating like having a dick.
Speaker 3: Okay, don't do sexual politics with me right now.
Speaker 2: All I'm saying is Bowen has a crush on Go ahead,
Speaker 2: come out say it, Lucy Dakis.
Speaker 3: But I've always had this you love like wonderful. Lucy
Speaker 3: and I exchanged a powerful glance at Forest Hills. This
Speaker 3: is like three years ago. Oh my gosh, she was.
Speaker 3: She was opening she and Maxihachi were opening for Connor Oberst,
Speaker 3: and she had just got she had just done her set.
Speaker 3: This is right when home Video came out her album.
Speaker 3: And then I just like glanced over at her, and
Speaker 3: then she glanced over at me, and we kind of
Speaker 3: smiled at each other. And then that was it. And
Speaker 3: ever since then, and then obviously since then, we've like
Speaker 3: talked and hung out, but like something powerful about her.
Speaker 2: She talked and hung out, Like it's like, did you
Speaker 2: did you watch you ever watch nobody wants this?
Speaker 3: That thing on Netflix?
Speaker 2: Yeah, when men kissing that song is like boo, But
Speaker 2: it's like that Cynthia romantic pops up that played when
Speaker 2: you looked at Lucy Dikas across the room. And don't
Speaker 2: think we ever forgot about your thing with Katie Gavin.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's a good love triangle. This is my
Speaker 3: trend alert. Here we go. It's always with a gay
Speaker 3: woman and maybe there's a safe in that. It's like, well,
Speaker 3: there's no stakes in this, so I can safely from
Speaker 3: a far pine.
Speaker 2: So I can't wait to see how this episode turns out. Anyway,
Speaker 2: because this actually is a huge moment in history, because
Speaker 2: I can't believe this is true, but I think I
Speaker 2: actually have two things on record on this podcast. One
Speaker 2: was there's an episode where I literally go to you,
Speaker 2: have you listened to Driver's License by Olivia Rodriguez?
Speaker 3: And now what is that?
Speaker 2: This is when it first came out, and that's on record,
Speaker 2: and I believe me bringing up Chapel to you is
Speaker 2: on record on this.
Speaker 3: Podcast is also on record on this podcast as well.
Speaker 3: It's on record for a lot of people who listen
Speaker 3: to you and they were like, I'm gonna check this
Speaker 3: girl out.
Speaker 2: It was late twenty twenty two when I first sort
Speaker 2: of hurt her live but no, but then it was Fonda.
Speaker 3: It would know.
Speaker 2: It was April twenty twenty three. I think you were
Speaker 2: at the Fonda, and I remember it was a special
Speaker 2: evening because you could feel the energy and I remember
Speaker 2: she sang Pink Pink Pony Club and then she was
Speaker 2: saying the Pink Punty Club is here, and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, it really feels.
Speaker 3: Like it is here, like the La Show, it's about
Speaker 3: La etcetera.
Speaker 2: That was a really special night and I left that
Speaker 2: being like she's she's.
Speaker 3: One of she's the one, She's one of the ones,
Speaker 3: and now she's here. She's a Pisces legend, she's a
Speaker 3: Grammy winner. Everyone welcome, Hey, thank you.
Speaker 2: One Album of the Year at our Cultural Awards before
Speaker 2: your album was even out, and I've always wanted to
Speaker 2: ask you how you felt about that?
Speaker 4: Was really really I was like that is that makes sense?
Speaker 4: It was like that is so funny.
Speaker 3: I'm dumb. It was.
Speaker 4: It's so silly.
Speaker 3: It was earned.
Speaker 2: I remember the song that changed everything for me. I
Speaker 2: was like, wait, what the fuck was casual? Do a
Speaker 2: lot of people say that.
Speaker 4: I didn't expect that. I'm like, literally, Casual was the
Speaker 4: biggest bitch to get done. Really, it was like a
Speaker 4: lot of tense moments because I was like, I think
Speaker 4: it should be huge. I think it should be a
Speaker 4: really big pop song, and my orrid was like, I
Speaker 4: don't think. I think it's supposed to be sad, and
Speaker 4: so I was like wrong, And that's happened so many
Speaker 4: times about my songs, so like it was it's like
Speaker 4: even the subway, Like I'm just I was like, nobody's
Speaker 4: gonna gi a fuck about this.
Speaker 3: Like I don't people are clamoring.
Speaker 4: Cling so like casual. To me, I was like, I'm
Speaker 4: just gonna put it out and just not even care
Speaker 4: because I am like synth pop girl. This is not
Speaker 4: super synth pop heavy uh huh. But people liked it,
Speaker 4: and now I love it. I always like things more
Speaker 4: when I like it.
Speaker 3: You don't think it's both like like like a moody
Speaker 3: song that also builds like this grandiosity, because that's that's
Speaker 3: what we love about it.
Speaker 4: I think I get nervous writing songs that aren't like
Speaker 4: beat heavy and like dance forward instead of it's kind
Speaker 4: of like a wallowing and misery type of vibe.
Speaker 2: So I hear that. I mean when I left your show.
Speaker 2: When I first saw you, I was like, I feel
Speaker 2: like the only way to get it across is like
Speaker 2: it feels like and this is lame to do this,
Speaker 2: but it feels like Kesha meets like Annie Lennox.
Speaker 3: You have this like fun. You came out of this
Speaker 3: like shit blonde wig and then.
Speaker 2: You came back out with your with your hair and
Speaker 2: you were like it's me chapel chapel ron and we
Speaker 2: were all like laughing because there's like aware unawareness and
Speaker 2: there is like this is before you were calling what
Speaker 2: you do drag, but there was such a huge drag element.
Speaker 3: You had a drag performer open up. Yeah, but yet
Speaker 3: you have this like.
Speaker 2: Haunting, gorgeous, like ethereal voice that I was like, I
Speaker 2: don't think we have this out there.
Speaker 3: So that's what I meant by Like the Kasha meets Annie,
Speaker 3: that's so sweet.
Speaker 4: I mean those are icon girls, Yeah.
Speaker 2: But that's fun casual on a song like that. It's
Speaker 2: funny to hear you say you're like more comfortable doing
Speaker 2: the beat heavy stuff because what really like took me
Speaker 2: and maybe this is just the place I was in,
Speaker 2: but was Coffee was Kaleidoscope, was like those moments that
Speaker 2: are so like important and deep in your show Thank You.
Speaker 4: It is like so different live. You can really really
Speaker 4: feel the the ballads because I'm actually better at performing
Speaker 4: ballads like than I am pop songs, just because like
Speaker 4: I have a ballad voice way more suited for him
Speaker 4: than I'm mm hmmm. But so that's why I feel
Speaker 4: like the ballads go so heavy life because I found better.
Speaker 2: Well, well, it's like it's it is just like it's
Speaker 2: almost like a different singer, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Because I guess It's like when you're needing to do
Speaker 2: the pop thing, do you find yourself being like, Okay,
Speaker 2: now I'm a different pop girl.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to like I can't see Kaleidoscope and
Speaker 4: then go, you know what they say, never Friday Night,
Speaker 4: and you know it's really it is a different you
Speaker 4: have to like lock into different characters. I feel like
Speaker 4: for each song, especially like my king Kus Karma is
Speaker 4: like I'm less worried about hitting the notes rather than
Speaker 4: just like screaming as.
Speaker 2: Giving hard as I can. You know that was an
Speaker 2: important song for me at the time. I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is It's an.
Speaker 4: Important song for me. Every day I feel like I'm
Speaker 4: like I actually still feel pissed, Like I don't know
Speaker 4: if I'll ever get over it. I don't know if
Speaker 4: I'll if I'll ever not be mad.
Speaker 3: Is it kind of the song's fault though, that you're
Speaker 3: locked into this like sentiment?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's what's so hard about writing about xes
Speaker 4: is because you're locked and especially if you hate them,
Speaker 4: and like I don't, luckily like I don't hate a
Speaker 4: lot of my exes. I have so many songs about
Speaker 4: my exes, about different people, about people I never dated,
Speaker 4: but still in love with like and I don't hate them.
Speaker 4: But it's really hard to sing songs about people that
Speaker 4: you hate because you still hate them.
Speaker 3: Everybody gets too in life. How many do you have?
Speaker 4: How many exes?
Speaker 3: But you hate that you fucking hate exes that you
Speaker 3: fucking hate. I think everyone gets it. Is it more
Speaker 3: than two? Just just just just greater than or less
Speaker 3: than two.
Speaker 4: I feel like high school people just don't care.
Speaker 3: Well, you know what your feelings were real, but it
Speaker 3: doesn't My.
Speaker 4: Feelings were real, but it doesn't count. So one, Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's only one. But I've dated like a lot of
Speaker 4: dumb people. But you know that's not their fault.
Speaker 2: It's not their fault. You almost feel bad. It's almost
Speaker 2: like punching down. And then all of a sudden they
Speaker 2: get the distinction of like having a song, and that's
Speaker 2: also hard. It's like, well, fuck you elicited such a
Speaker 2: response from me that I felt moved to write this thing.
Speaker 4: It's like it just I get angry every time I
Speaker 4: but that's good saying it. It's real. It's like it's
Speaker 4: very real, and it's that's why it feels real about
Speaker 4: the ballads. It's because like I am feeling that when
Speaker 4: I'm icing coffee. There's been so many times that I
Speaker 4: performed coffee and I'm just like, in the middle of
Speaker 4: the song, was like, yeah, I'm done next, like because
Speaker 4: I'm like.
Speaker 3: You actually ended it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've just been like I can't. I
Speaker 4: don't want to do this.
Speaker 3: That's so like form breaking and cool.
Speaker 4: It's just like it's just not worth the rest of
Speaker 4: the show, you know, because like then you because you
Speaker 4: always do ballots like in the middle. For me, I
Speaker 4: do so then it's like a loop loop loop and
Speaker 4: on like a high note. Yeah, And sometimes I'm just
Speaker 4: like dreading it so much when like the ballad part,
Speaker 4: the people like the Picture You vibe because like I
Speaker 4: have my wig on the mic stand and I drag
Speaker 4: my wig around and I make it like campy. But
Speaker 4: I hated Picture You too because I was like this
Speaker 4: is boring. I'm bored, Like I want to move around
Speaker 4: on stage, out lights, I want like the pageantry. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's either like I do a fully ballad set or
Speaker 4: I do all pop because and that's why I like festivals,
Speaker 4: because there's not enough time to.
Speaker 3: Do What about when you're doing a cover if you're
Speaker 3: doing bad Romance?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 4: What is?
Speaker 3: What is is? Are you just channeling Gather? Are you
Speaker 3: feeling are you like finding a way in for yourself?
Speaker 4: Bad Romance? Low key? I always felt like a fraud
Speaker 4: singing really yes, because I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: I can't live up to what I think I should
Speaker 4: be in my fucking head for this song. I like.
Speaker 4: And that's like the hardest part of like covering songs
Speaker 4: that are so iconic. It's like people associate bad Romance
Speaker 4: with like pure it was the biggest fucking pops. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 4: and I think I just I do covers because I
Speaker 4: want to feel like what's in my body, Like what
Speaker 4: what will it feel like in my body to sing
Speaker 4: Bad Romance in front of a crowd? And like that
Speaker 4: is the closest I'll ever know to what Gaga maybe
Speaker 4: feels like, Like I'm like, okay, this is how it
Speaker 4: feels to like rage on stage to bad Romance, or like,
Speaker 4: this is what it feels like to sing Barrakuda in
Speaker 4: front of like fifty thousand people. And so I can
Speaker 4: like leach off of the other artists experiences in that way,
Speaker 4: you know. So, but Bad Romance is different because I
Speaker 4: was just like she.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 4: I can't match it. That's what I realized. It's like
Speaker 4: I can't match it.
Speaker 3: But does does the feeling of I kind of can
Speaker 3: channel what it feels like to be Gaga singing this song?
Speaker 3: Does that compete with the fraudulent feeling? Or is that
Speaker 3: the same thing. It's like even Gaga's putting on a persona.
Speaker 4: I just think that I can't cover every song I
Speaker 4: want to. I think it's like reserved. Yeah, like you know,
Speaker 4: I think, and that's the coolest thing about pop. It's
Speaker 4: like you can't. Fucking ballads like are more attainable, but pop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what's funny is it's like with good
Speaker 2: Luck babe, it's so hard to sing, and like you
Speaker 2: do see a lot of people taking cracks at it.
Speaker 2: But you have one of those songs now where it's
Speaker 2: like that's a Chapel Roone song.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like that, bitch?
Speaker 4: I can't even sing it.
Speaker 3: It's I can't sing.
Speaker 4: I cannot sing any original key like in a set
Speaker 4: of songs if I was just doing it only maybe yeah,
Speaker 4: But like I don't even when people sing my songs.
Speaker 4: I'm just like I feel bad because like that I
Speaker 4: know how hot like I have for you. I was
Speaker 4: just like, good luck. I don't even care if you
Speaker 4: fucking mess up because like thank you for trying. Yeah,
Speaker 4: because I can't even nail it, like and also like
Speaker 4: I can't sing like an impitch, like like I am
Speaker 4: maybe seventy percent of the time, but the songs are
Speaker 4: just that fucking hard. Yeah, And like it is cool
Speaker 4: that sometimes, you know, I mean it feels good. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's feels good to be like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my song.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I you so is it like when you're
Speaker 2: when you're recording, is it?
Speaker 3: I guess why do I ask this question? I plays
Speaker 3: the technique? Yeah, are you do you have the.
Speaker 2: Song out and you're like writing it straight through with
Speaker 2: like Dan or Justin whoever you're writing with and then
Speaker 2: you can like play it on the piano altogether. Or
Speaker 2: are you going back and like revisiting different sections of
Speaker 2: the song because that one really feels like it's so
Speaker 2: many different things.
Speaker 4: That was well, it was originally called good Luck Jane,
Speaker 4: and like it. We rewrote it. It was such a
Speaker 4: it was so annoying. The best songs take the longest,
Speaker 4: except Pink Pony Club that took one day and like
Speaker 4: good luck, babe, we recorded the entire song four times
Speaker 4: because I could not just like find a key that
Speaker 4: made sense. And so I feel like for Naked and Manhattan,
Speaker 4: it took two years to write the post chorus, which
Speaker 4: is like touch me, touch me, touch me. So we
Speaker 4: like come out usually with the chorus or like the
Speaker 4: song title, and then we'll like create melodies around that,
Speaker 4: and then we'll refine from there of like the lyrics,
Speaker 4: and it's always a first edit. We hardly ever ever.
Speaker 4: The only song that I used the first draft off
Speaker 4: was Kaleidoscope, but like everything else is edit after edter
Speaker 4: f and like you know, somebody's it feels like shit,
Speaker 4: Yeah it has to if so Phenomenon felt like shit
Speaker 4: to write.
Speaker 2: Really yes, And that's crazy too because it's such a
Speaker 2: fun song. But it's like you're like banging your head
Speaker 2: against the all being like.
Speaker 4: Fuck because it was like this is that puzzle was hard? Yeah,
Speaker 4: it doesn't make sense like I was banging my head
Speaker 4: against I've been banging my head against the wall with
Speaker 4: the subway because I'm it just songs can work live.
Speaker 4: Certain things can work live, and they do not work
Speaker 4: in the studio or like for like my kink is Karma,
Speaker 4: Like every performance I scream really loud at the end
Speaker 4: of the song. I don't do that in the recorded version.
Speaker 4: Doesn't fucking work. Same with the giver, it did not work.
Speaker 4: Like first of all, I said the wrong thing on
Speaker 4: s and I was supposed to say something else, like
Speaker 4: I got nervous and said some like fucked up the wording.
Speaker 4: It kind of like makes sense eighty percent, but what.
Speaker 3: Was the wording, like like the country boys can't treat
Speaker 3: a woman.
Speaker 4: And only yeah, only it was like only.
Speaker 3: A woman knows how to treat a woman right or something.
Speaker 4: It was just it just didn't. It was like almost
Speaker 4: made sense. But also I was like SNL, it was
Speaker 4: so insane, Like it was just so scary. Your whole career,
Speaker 4: your whole career. Everyone says nothing is harder than USNL,
Speaker 4: nothing is harder than us sound it's like, but also
Speaker 4: like that it is so live and there is no
Speaker 4: like your band is live. That's like the scariest part.
Speaker 4: It's like the movie Magic like girl, it's rare that
Speaker 4: you see anyone fucking playing like anything for real on TV,
Speaker 4: Like it is not most of the time. For real, Yeah,
Speaker 4: because it just doesn't work like that works live but
Speaker 4: not like on TV televice. It just the sound doesn't
Speaker 4: work that way. So like I was just I was
Speaker 4: so fucking stressed. So I'm like the fact that I
Speaker 4: even performed the Giver and like made it through it's amazing.
Speaker 4: But I know that, like it is so awesome to
Speaker 4: see like everyone be like where the fuck is the bridge?
Speaker 4: I'm like, boo woo woo. Do you not think I tried?
Speaker 4: Do you not think? I do not think? I tried
Speaker 4: over and over and tried different sayings and tried different
Speaker 4: what the bridge was the hardest thing to figure out,
Speaker 4: and like now I have like an even better idea
Speaker 4: for it live. Like that's the other thing is like
Speaker 4: the live shows matter just as much as the songs
Speaker 4: themselves to me, because that is actually.
Speaker 3: Like that's a live you get, you get to mold
Speaker 3: it and grow with it, and it gets to change, and.
Speaker 4: It like it just becomes a character in itself, just
Speaker 4: like the live performance, Like everyone can kind of like
Speaker 4: wait for that character of the song to come out.
Speaker 3: Because what you're talking about in terms of recording and
Speaker 3: in terms of like cracking the subway let's say is
Speaker 3: not to use this phrase again, but you have to.
Speaker 3: That's that's locked in. You are locked into this thing,
Speaker 3: and that's that's like the thing that people are going
Speaker 3: to revisit the most readily and accessively. For what it's worth.
Speaker 3: I feel like both ping Pony Club and the giver
Speaker 3: on us and over fucking major. I was listening to
Speaker 3: the SoundCloud the next day for weeks. Yeah, like that's
Speaker 3: and I'm like, and then the track release, I'm like, fuck,
Speaker 3: this is so hard for me sometimes when like an
Speaker 3: artist puts out a live thing before the release and
Speaker 3: then the track comes out and I'm like, I like
Speaker 3: the live version better. Do you know why why I don't?
Speaker 4: It's called demoitis, demo demo witis, demoitis.
Speaker 2: Okay, demo with demo the demos, so like what happens
Speaker 2: school us?
Speaker 4: And this is like, this is to my detriment too,
Speaker 4: This is to every person's stsment of like I get
Speaker 4: a demo, I hear it, I play it for my friend,
Speaker 4: and then I go back in and like, work on it,
Speaker 4: play it to them again and they're like I just
Speaker 4: liked the other one better. Yeah, And because you have
Speaker 4: demoitis because you've like attatched so much to this, like
Speaker 4: to you attach memories, like you attach all of these
Speaker 4: things to this one version of the song. It's actually
Speaker 4: not as good like as the actually recorded version, like
Speaker 4: straight up because the song wasn't done. There was like
Speaker 4: pitchiness all over the map, and like sometimes that's manged,
Speaker 4: but it's not what I want my life. Yeah tracks,
Speaker 4: but or sorry, my greatcorded tracks. But you fall in
Speaker 4: love with what you hear first, yeah, because you hear
Speaker 4: a different version and you're just gonna hate it because
Speaker 4: it's different. That's the thing. I just go into new things.
Speaker 4: I'm like expecting to hate it. It's like kay kayley,
Speaker 4: like you are going to hate this, get past it
Speaker 4: and like look at it for what it really is.
Speaker 4: And that is how I get past to releasing how
Speaker 4: I even release music, because it's like I'm gonna hate it.
Speaker 4: Just live with it, like feel it and take a
Speaker 4: step away because like all the people who have been
Speaker 4: living with the giver on SoundCloud or whatever, of course
Speaker 4: they're gonna hate it.
Speaker 3: That is like they're attached.
Speaker 4: They're attached, and like just because it's different, you'll hate
Speaker 4: it because that's like human nature, you know. So I
Speaker 4: was not surprised at all when people were like does
Speaker 4: the magic And it's like, I think it has the magic.
Speaker 4: I think, and that's really all that matters. And also
Speaker 4: like people will just get over it because it's like
Speaker 4: it just sounds better and for the subway, you know,
Speaker 4: it's just gonna feel different, and different doesn't always mean bad.
Speaker 4: You just have to like really take yourself out of
Speaker 4: it and be like this is different and it's okay.
Speaker 3: And now you have two versions.
Speaker 2: And now you have two versions of the sound version remains, yeah,
Speaker 2: and like that's the one you love, and there'll be
Speaker 2: a third version when you come out and you know, perform.
Speaker 4: It at all these festivals coming up. Yeah, So it's
Speaker 4: like it's demoitis. Just remind yourself. It's like like I
Speaker 4: I there's so many TikTok songs that I'm like, oh
Speaker 4: my god, this is so fun and I didn't realize
Speaker 4: it was either a cover sped up or like something.
Speaker 4: And then I hear the original version, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 4: I like yeah, and I'm like, oh, I like the
Speaker 4: TikTok one, and then I like go back and I'm
Speaker 4: like actually, the artists put that out on purpose because
Speaker 4: it actually fits the art better. Of course, so I
Speaker 4: understand people were like where is the bridge? Of course
Speaker 4: it was probably a man who decided that. I was like, no, baby,
Speaker 4: I did decide that.
Speaker 3: Yah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And also, do not forget this is a lesbian country song,
Speaker 4: like this is like a big deal, Like this is
Speaker 4: for me what I've always wanted to do, So it
Speaker 4: may not be what you want.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, right, right, right right, there's this like interesting
Speaker 3: and title. I'm not going to say this, but it's
Speaker 3: like you're not customer service, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: You are not there to like take in all of
Speaker 3: these complaints and like synthesize them into it can't affect
Speaker 3: your work.
Speaker 4: I had to stop reading.
Speaker 3: You got to stop reading. It's probably just I no.
Speaker 4: I deleted Instagram and TikTok off my phone on Sunday
Speaker 4: because I was like, I actually like, if I want
Speaker 4: to protect my creative psyche, like because I'm writing right
Speaker 4: now nothing, I have to build a force field around
Speaker 4: it and the things if I want to for sure
Speaker 4: have a bad day, like one hundred percent guarantee. I
Speaker 4: read the comments like and I just have to remind myself,
Speaker 4: you touch it, yeah, it's like, okay, if you want
Speaker 4: to open these, you're not going to feel Yeah. So
Speaker 4: now it's just.
Speaker 3: Like never, it's never going to be worth it.
Speaker 4: It's never worth it, and like it just hurts my feelings.
Speaker 4: I thought I would grow out of it hurting my feelings.
Speaker 3: Build a thicker skin or something.
Speaker 4: I thought I would become callous to it. And sometimes
Speaker 4: I hate that I'm not callous, and then other times
Speaker 4: I'm like, actually, thank god, I have feelings about people
Speaker 4: hurting my feelings absolutely, because that is like sad. If
Speaker 4: I don't know, maybe I'll get there one day, maybe
Speaker 4: I can find a healthy medium, but I don't know.
Speaker 4: People like saying it's not about like my art anymore,
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, right, It's about me and how
Speaker 4: I look or how I talk or my humor. It's
Speaker 4: like that is the insufferable part, all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: and not like the art. And so that's what hurts
Speaker 4: my feeling because it's like when my art even you know,
Speaker 4: like with the Giver, you are one hundred percent allowed
Speaker 4: to judge it, hate it, love it, rip it, apart,
Speaker 4: critique it, Like that is the point that is fair game.
Speaker 4: It's art. I think, like everything else, I'm like, that's
Speaker 4: outside of my art and performance. Stay with performance critique
Speaker 4: it like that is visual art. Visually like critique my fashion,
Speaker 4: that's fine. It's just when it comes to my personality
Speaker 4: and like my mistakes that I make in public, it's
Speaker 4: like it is rude.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, even if they are aren't mistakes,
Speaker 2: human beings are allowed to make them, of course. And
Speaker 2: I think that like one thing that people just whether
Speaker 2: they can't reckon with it or they don't want to
Speaker 2: because like people feel complicit in it is it's like
Speaker 2: it was like unprecedented how quickly it changed for you
Speaker 2: from here to here in terms of like the amount
Speaker 2: of eyes on you and the out of mouths flapping
Speaker 2: in regards.
Speaker 3: To what you did.
Speaker 2: So it's like even in a world where it's like
Speaker 2: we've seen people go from like whatever it is, like
Speaker 2: zero to sixthy or overnight success whatever that means, not
Speaker 2: like this, Because I remember we were at Coachella and.
Speaker 4: We were like different now.
Speaker 3: We were so.
Speaker 2: Excited at Coachella because we were like, oh and I
Speaker 2: was with a couple of gays who didn't know who
Speaker 2: you were yeteah, and that was you.
Speaker 3: Know, a four.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a year while at.
Speaker 2: The end of that weekend, not only did everyone know
Speaker 2: who you were, but everyone had an opinion on you,
Speaker 2: et cetera. And then Gouve Bow was a whole other
Speaker 2: fucking thing that was fifteen twenty different like think pieces,
Speaker 2: and it's like that you're never gonna get You are
Speaker 2: never gonna get what you want out of that one
Speaker 2: individual human being. It's impossible, and I don't think there's
Speaker 2: enough awareness of that or like, you know, people don't
Speaker 2: take accountability for their own actions in that regard to
Speaker 2: people get excited.
Speaker 4: Do you feel that? Do you guys feel that?
Speaker 3: I mean, we're not feeling on your level.
Speaker 4: No, But every level, of course, a film is a level.
Speaker 3: Every level is a level. The Culture Cure seventy six six,
Speaker 3: Every level is a level.
Speaker 2: But of course, and it's also it's like when you
Speaker 2: have something, when you have like something that you've put
Speaker 2: out there that people have really connected with and people
Speaker 2: have a relationship with you in that regard, it gets harder,
Speaker 2: which is why I'm happy you just deleted the ship,
Speaker 2: because you're in creative mode right now and you need
Speaker 2: to be. I wanted to ask you, like, how is
Speaker 2: it going in terms of you treating yourself create.
Speaker 4: Creatively the artist's way.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you have artists.
Speaker 4: That book taught me how to protect my creativity and
Speaker 4: like how to be really treat myself really well and
Speaker 4: be really gentle with myself. I am really good at
Speaker 4: respecting my artistry. What I am not good at is
Speaker 4: respecting like my feelings outside of artistry. Like it's so interesting.
Speaker 4: I'm like very good at being gentle with like my
Speaker 4: critiques on myself and like letting things. You know, it's
Speaker 4: not going to be great the first time. You may
Speaker 4: have to like water it and watch it grow. But
Speaker 4: when it comes to like me making a mistake in life,
Speaker 4: it's like that's when I'm not good at like giving
Speaker 4: myself some grace or just like whatever. So my creativity
Speaker 4: is very she's sacred and healthy. Like I just spent
Speaker 4: the whole last week doing writing and I wrote some
Speaker 4: songs I really love and like that's that is magic.
Speaker 4: The fact that I could do that midst like the
Speaker 4: past year, and the fact that I can't like do
Speaker 4: a lot of things like I used to normally and
Speaker 4: like feel normal. That's great, that's awesome. It worked, Like yeah,
Speaker 4: it's just when it comes to like my self confidence
Speaker 4: or comments or like you know, just saying something I
Speaker 4: didn't mean or whatever. How that's how like when I'm
Speaker 4: really hard.
Speaker 3: On myself, right when you know what that book does
Speaker 3: early on, it tells you to like picture and think
Speaker 3: back on the people early on in your life who
Speaker 3: like try to like cut you off creatively. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I still I still go about this process with like
Speaker 3: one specific person, this is the theater teacher or whatever.
Speaker 3: You have to like treat them the same way that
Speaker 3: you Chap will treat your exes. Yeah, you have to
Speaker 3: like fucking go for the jugular in your brain with
Speaker 3: these people. And you and I think my thing is
Speaker 3: we have to keep doing it now now that like
Speaker 3: there are these little side quests popping up where like, oh,
Speaker 3: there's this person who like is being a little bogger,
Speaker 3: this person's being a fucking asshole. Like it's a continuous
Speaker 3: thing where you like have to tell these people who
Speaker 3: make you feel like you're making a mistake, which you're not.
Speaker 3: You can't even think of them as mistakes because these
Speaker 3: are just people who are trying to like end you
Speaker 3: creatively and you have to protect that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, art is like for me, I'm such
Speaker 4: I do have a thick skin around like my art.
Speaker 4: It's really hard to see us something you see online
Speaker 4: and be like, oh, maybe that's supposed to be funny, right,
Speaker 4: but everyone's like that's serious and that's actually fucked up,
Speaker 4: and it's like, huh, maybe it's just not one about
Speaker 4: you or too serious.
Speaker 2: Like well can we talk about Also, like when people
Speaker 2: were dragging you for doing your mood dang thing.
Speaker 3: And then I was like, yeah, I was like, I
Speaker 3: bet she thinks it's funny.
Speaker 4: I did. Yeah, I didn't feel anything.
Speaker 3: Sasha and I, Sasha Colby and I were talking about
Speaker 3: and I was just like, I mean, yeah, everyone's mad.
Speaker 3: I was like I'm not. I was like, I was like,
Speaker 3: is she okay? And Sasha was like yeah, girl, she's laughing,
Speaker 3: she's laughing. I was like, okay, Well then that's fine.
Speaker 4: I'm like the why people don't have to get mad
Speaker 4: on my behalf right, but I'm for fine, yes, so
Speaker 4: what is there to be mad about? Also, this is
Speaker 4: what happens like that is andl it's comedy. Ye, Like
Speaker 4: it is so lighthearted. It was like to me, harmless,
Speaker 4: Oh my god. And for people to even if you
Speaker 4: were to push it further harmless, it's like it's comedy.
Speaker 4: I don't understand, Like I just don't know the line.
Speaker 3: I think people just get worked up over someone that
Speaker 3: they are very It's like a it's like a love
Speaker 3: bombing thing, or it's like limerens. It's like they're obsessed
Speaker 3: with you and so they will die. It's parasocial.
Speaker 2: I mean, what it is is it's like I need
Speaker 2: to protect this person they've expressed that they need help,
Speaker 2: or I feel like I'm projecting what I might need
Speaker 2: in that situation. But it's hard, Like you're saying, like
Speaker 2: when you look online, is it supposed to be a joke?
Speaker 2: Is this thing supposed be funny in a time when
Speaker 2: we are.
Speaker 4: Nothing's funny right?
Speaker 3: When very it's not funny exactly.
Speaker 2: And meanwhile, it's like that was a really complicated, weird
Speaker 2: time because it was like I remember getting text from
Speaker 2: people being like are Bowen and Chapel okay? I was like,
Speaker 2: first of all, they don't really know each other that well.
Speaker 2: Second of all, I'm sure they are. Third of all,
Speaker 2: why are we assuming that people don't have senses of humor.
Speaker 3: It's like it's chapelone, y'all.
Speaker 2: It's like I was watching your show and that's why
Speaker 2: I was describing you as like there was like this
Speaker 2: fun pop kesha, I'm ever come out in the ship
Speaker 2: long wig and You're like, it's me Chapel Because if
Speaker 2: we weren't supposed to know, I'm like, this girl is funny.
Speaker 3: We're all having fun. It's pop stardom.
Speaker 2: It's you know, even if like even if you.
Speaker 4: Didn't like think the mooting sketch was funny or anything,
Speaker 4: you don't say.
Speaker 3: Anything, yeah right, there's always silence like you don't.
Speaker 4: You can always not say something right. And you know what,
Speaker 4: people sticking up for me in that situation or not
Speaker 4: sticking up for me made me feel no different. I
Speaker 4: didn't feel protected and I didn't feel unprotected. So because
Speaker 4: I didn't need it either way, sure, because I was
Speaker 4: not offended.
Speaker 3: I wanted to have a serious conversation about this what
Speaker 3: do you love about service topic?
Speaker 4: Okay, I didn't know what service topping.
Speaker 3: Was, but do you identify as one? I read?
Speaker 4: I read an article, You read an article and to
Speaker 4: me is it like Stone Top.
Speaker 3: It's this is I had an encounter in the last year,
Speaker 3: not not recently, but someone who was like, what do
Speaker 3: you want me to do to make you feel good?
Speaker 3: I'm a service Top said these words to me, like
Speaker 3: I get off on watching someone take pleasure in what
Speaker 3: I'm doing.
Speaker 4: True, Sorry, isn't that just sex? I'm so honest.
Speaker 3: That is thank you for saying me.
Speaker 4: So sorry, service Toop, go ahead.
Speaker 3: They are in their mind they are nervousing you, which
Speaker 3: sometimes I mean, I'm sure we've been in situation and
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even I don't even know if they would
Speaker 3: identify it as kinky. But like sometimes it's like I
Speaker 3: want to have sex because I want to feel good.
Speaker 3: They want to have sex because they want to see
Speaker 3: you feel good. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: But that in turn makes them feel good, and so
Speaker 2: it's you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Okay, so you're with you. Sometimes I think we go
Speaker 3: crazy with the labels of everything.
Speaker 4: I don't understand, Okay, I mean, I that's why I
Speaker 4: ask you if it's kinky, because it's like this may
Speaker 4: not make me, like I may not understand this pleasure
Speaker 4: thing for you, but I'm going to do it. Anyway,
Speaker 4: because like you like to be dominated or something like whatever.
Speaker 4: But to me, like I just thought that's how sex works.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what is being a giver mean to you? Then?
Speaker 4: That just means I want to do things that make
Speaker 4: you feel good. Yeah, like I'm a I will do things.
Speaker 4: I will just give my time.
Speaker 3: And I will Yeah. And if I take that, if
Speaker 3: I'm a taker, are I giving you something in return
Speaker 3: by taking it? That's that I think that's where all
Speaker 3: three of us are kind of getting a little mixed up.
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm lost too.
Speaker 3: I don't. I like I'm a pillow princess. I know
Speaker 3: exactly where I am.
Speaker 4: Okay, good kidding?
Speaker 3: Are you? No?
Speaker 4: I'm not.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm sometimes a pillow princess. It feels good.
Speaker 4: I think maybe I just like so take it like takeer.
Speaker 4: I wasn't really like actually thinking about anything when I was.
Speaker 4: I was just like, oh, that's fun. Yeah, because a
Speaker 4: giver and a taker, you like a taker? Like That's
Speaker 4: literally where my mind went. But when I saw the
Speaker 4: article about like servicetops and whatever, I was just like cool,
Speaker 4: did not know that existed? Wasn't the intention? Like? I
Speaker 4: just liked it. I do love that about pop cultures
Speaker 4: that they will make something out of nothing, like you
Speaker 4: know what I mean, Like they made this, people will
Speaker 4: make like this and higher outline of like what each
Speaker 4: thing means thing? Yeah, like what each character I played
Speaker 4: means in like the lesbian community. And I literally was like,
Speaker 4: don't know what you're talking about, but I just wanted
Speaker 4: to wear a blazer like.
Speaker 3: I wanted to.
Speaker 2: You were talking on Apple about like really what it
Speaker 2: was was you wanted a George straight type of song, right,
Speaker 2: like you wanted to feel on stage like that kind
Speaker 2: of swaggy country like character. Yeah, which I think is
Speaker 2: different than like.
Speaker 3: I get off on making you O face.
Speaker 4: I thought that was like the point of set. It
Speaker 4: is like for me, I give you pleasure and that
Speaker 4: gives me pleasure.
Speaker 3: This is the healthiest discourse on sex anyone's ever had.
Speaker 2: But it you know, thank god doctor Ruth is dead. Hey,
Speaker 2: she's rolling in her grave. One time I asked doctor
Speaker 2: Ruth what she thought of prep and she didn't. She couldn't.
Speaker 2: It did not compute. She was like what I was like.
Speaker 2: It was at the Sunnins film Best. I was like,
Speaker 2: it's so gay guys can have unprotected sex. She goes, well,
Speaker 2: I hate that.
Speaker 4: Na, and then I was like, oh, oh okay.
Speaker 2: And then but it was fully doctor Ruth, and I'm
Speaker 2: thinking she knows like what prep is and she did not.
Speaker 2: And then I was like, Okay, maybe we've we've missed
Speaker 2: each other in terms of like the sexual revolution.
Speaker 3: The reason I say this is actually a huge reset
Speaker 3: for people. The way people talk about sex in this
Speaker 3: day and age is that it has been so divorced
Speaker 3: from pleasure.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think for a lot of people that's interesting.
Speaker 4: I mean that is why that is my experience when
Speaker 4: I hooked up with men. That's how I knew I
Speaker 4: was gay, Uh huh.
Speaker 3: Because it never was never felt like it was about
Speaker 3: you or for you.
Speaker 4: No, I just felt so performative. Yeah, and like so
Speaker 4: like I just did what I thought they wanted, even
Speaker 4: if it didn't feel good. And maybe that's what to
Speaker 4: me when I'm like, okay, service top is that do
Speaker 4: service even if you don't want to. I don't know,
Speaker 4: Like I just want to do what my partner makes
Speaker 4: them feel good. And when I make them feel good,
Speaker 4: that makes me feel good. Right, So I think I
Speaker 4: would not really know what to do if someone I
Speaker 4: was hooking up with was only service stone top.
Speaker 3: Uh huh.
Speaker 4: I don't think I would really know what to do
Speaker 4: because I would want to do something for them.
Speaker 3: Huh. Yeah, are we saying that the term service top
Speaker 3: is a little bit It feels like it's a given thing.
Speaker 3: It's like saying, well, I'm a I'm a sensory bottom.
Speaker 3: It's like, of course you are. You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Now you have something you asked, You're going to feel that, Like.
Speaker 3: Why I only I'm the best, I'm best when I
Speaker 3: bottom and I can feel it. Well, yeah, what are
Speaker 3: you talking about.
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 4: That's crazy?
Speaker 5: It's no.
Speaker 2: But you know what though, like it takes time to like,
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people say this stuff because
Speaker 2: there it's it's more a thing of it's less them
Speaker 2: expressing what they actually like and more people being like, no,
Speaker 2: like I do have sexual agency, I do have a
Speaker 2: sexual identity. When the fact is, it takes a lot
Speaker 2: of time, totally, Like, I don't even think. It wasn't
Speaker 2: until my late twenties that I was even having real
Speaker 2: sex that like consciously took me out of what I
Speaker 2: had seen in like porn or what which I do
Speaker 2: think and I have so much respect for everyone, like
Speaker 2: in the sexu work community, et cetera. But I do
Speaker 2: think when you're ingesting a lot of it young, you
Speaker 2: of course want to emulate the things that you see,
Speaker 2: and that is like inherently not going to be natural
Speaker 2: to you every time. So it's like it's like in
Speaker 2: that way it becomes a teacher in a way that can.
Speaker 3: Be a little rocky. It wasn't.
Speaker 2: And I was just thinking sitting here, like, you know,
Speaker 2: I had a great sexual experience like last week, and
Speaker 2: I was like gratulation, thank you so much and shout
Speaker 2: out verse also flip you yes, amazing.
Speaker 3: And I've been I've.
Speaker 2: Really started like owning myself as like the bottom that
Speaker 2: I am. But then all of a sudden love. So
Speaker 2: but that's what I guess what I mean is it's
Speaker 2: like I need to stop telling myself I find one thing.
Speaker 2: I think we all need to stop telling ourselves are
Speaker 2: one thing and be open to those different experiences and
Speaker 2: expressions because I think a lot of it is just
Speaker 2: us wanting to belong in something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is so real. It's so nice when there's
Speaker 4: a label that fits you perfectly right, because that makes
Speaker 4: you be like, ah, like when I what is the
Speaker 4: what is the one that is where you only are
Speaker 4: sexually attracted to people that you're friends with, It's like,
Speaker 4: I don't know that it's a It's like you have
Speaker 4: to have like a really strong relationship to like feel
Speaker 4: like you want to hook up with.
Speaker 3: Them, and it's not even just as friendship makes what
Speaker 3: is it?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure it's it's and Rachel.
Speaker 4: But when I heard about that, I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: that makes sense to me, Like I can't. I don't
Speaker 4: want to just hook up with people I just met,
Speaker 4: Like that is why I'm so uncomfortable when I'm hit on,
Speaker 4: like because I'm like, I don't know you, yeah, right,
Speaker 4: And that is why I get myself in trouble and
Speaker 4: date my friends and then it's like you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, that is always what happens, and so like
Speaker 4: that's why I'm so it's such a turn off when
Speaker 4: people like are so bold at the beginning, yeah, because
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't know, you got to watch.
Speaker 3: Those anyway, people are really bold at the beginning.
Speaker 2: My experiences, Okay, you're this is for you, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like we've experienced some love bombing, and
Speaker 2: it's like, I'm sure we all have, and it's like this,
Speaker 2: there's no way you're you're like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've even asked a question. I've sat back, cocked.
Speaker 2: The brow and been like how yeah, And then they
Speaker 2: have another line, the one I the one I got.
Speaker 3: The one I got was we deserve to have good
Speaker 3: things for good people. And I was read that.
Speaker 4: Motherfucker, where'd you read that next? And think of something smarter?
Speaker 3: But some but people like like period when.
Speaker 2: You're I'm never surprised anymore when people have rehearsed the
Speaker 2: whole thing, Like you find out later they had a
Speaker 2: bit that they were going to do when you sat
Speaker 2: down at whatever it is they were meeting, Like they
Speaker 2: researched things to say to you up top with your friends,
Speaker 2: especially someone.
Speaker 4: Like you're talking about, like people that research things about you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yes, but also I'm going to say, I'm
Speaker 2: going to say this joke about a celebrity because I
Speaker 2: know he likes celebrities like that.
Speaker 4: No, I was thinking of like people that can't you
Speaker 4: can't just google like whatever. I guess like for me,
Speaker 4: that's like gone, and probably like for you, like people,
Speaker 4: it's gone hard it's gone. Like people can like kind
Speaker 4: of guess what you might like and like like manipulate
Speaker 4: a sentence that maybe would work best for you because
Speaker 4: they know you like a regular bar. I'm always you know,
Speaker 4: before I guess before last year, before last year. If
Speaker 4: I like had to pick up line, I'd be like,
Speaker 4: I can only laugh. It's hilarious because I'm just like,
Speaker 4: but they had to try.
Speaker 3: You know what.
Speaker 2: That's the thing is. It's like they're trying, and everyone's trying.
Speaker 2: It's like some people think and if I go in
Speaker 2: with an arsenal of things to say and I really like,
Speaker 2: you know, dress for Hirst, what this is going to be,
Speaker 2: I'll feel better about it. But you know, sometimes it's
Speaker 2: just like it is worth being like, Okay, when are
Speaker 2: we going to get to the real you? Because because
Speaker 2: they could take a long time.
Speaker 3: You like, you know.
Speaker 4: Do you feel like if people know who you are,
Speaker 4: it's like, uh, turn off, turn on or just be honest. Yeah, right, yeah,
Speaker 4: it does depend, but I am very weary if someone
Speaker 4: knows who If someone is a fan and I like
Speaker 4: have hit on them or something and like started like
Speaker 4: a relationship with them and I did not know they
Speaker 4: were a fan. That is scary to me because I'm
Speaker 4: I've embarrassed, and also I'm like, I don't trust you,
Speaker 4: and like are you screenshotting everything we're saying?
Speaker 3: Are you?
Speaker 4: I just get really, I've become so paranoid about that stuff.
Speaker 4: Like I'm like, girl, I'll just talk like this all
Speaker 4: the time because it was freaking.
Speaker 3: The lip readers. We were talking about that recently. It's like, which,
Speaker 3: God bless the lip readers.
Speaker 4: We need those girls.
Speaker 3: We do. It is fun when you when you want
Speaker 3: to know and you're on the other side of it.
Speaker 4: But like right all the time, I'll tell you that.
Speaker 3: At the Grammys, You're like, it's fucking open concepts. It's crazy.
Speaker 2: All these people are looking down at you. It's almost
Speaker 2: like I signed for that one thing that they really did.
Speaker 2: This is the recording out of Me had posted like
Speaker 2: watch Chapel, watch Benson Boone, or like watch Sabrina Carpenter
Speaker 2: watching this person, and it's just like, why are we
Speaker 2: watching these artists watch the thing? And then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, you're like your finger starts going like should
Speaker 2: I click?
Speaker 3: And you're like, I mean, no, it's weird, but why
Speaker 3: is that available?
Speaker 4: Because they want so bad to catch you. That's the
Speaker 4: only reason. They just want to fucking catch you.
Speaker 3: Why wouldn't you be paranoid if like that's on your mind.
Speaker 4: That's what I'm thinking about always. I'm just like I
Speaker 4: have to think about all the time. I won't win.
Speaker 4: It's not that I can or can't win. I won't. Like,
Speaker 4: no matter what, Lily, I will not win this.
Speaker 3: You're not customer service, that's all.
Speaker 4: But also it's like I'm not customer service, and it's
Speaker 4: everyone else's expectation, like against my entire humanity, Like it's
Speaker 4: so crazy, but it's not their fault. It's like, that's
Speaker 4: how celebrity culture is where we find our happiness. Are
Speaker 4: like depths of hell. And for the first time your
Speaker 4: comment matters, for the first time, something you say people notice.
Speaker 4: And that's why the big comments are all mean, because
Speaker 4: for the first time, your voice matters in a country
Speaker 4: where you've been told that you never will matter. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So that's why I think the psychologist is my personal
Speaker 4: psychology around why people hate celebrities online. That's like why
Speaker 4: the biggest all you look at the comments, the biggest
Speaker 4: ones are the meanest, right because finally, Finally, finally, finally,
Speaker 4: something you say is validated. Yeah, after all this time,
Speaker 4: after you feeling so helpless, after everyone turning you down
Speaker 4: and saying that you don't matter, the mean parts of
Speaker 4: you do right online, and so like, I don't blame people.
Speaker 4: Of course they're gonna hate. It's like all that there
Speaker 4: is left is.
Speaker 3: To be mean because it's incentivizing a mean snarchy.
Speaker 4: And the meaner you are, like, the more attention you get, right, But.
Speaker 3: It doesn't get them, like, it doesn't get them past
Speaker 3: the ceiling of like the comment section, right, the comment.
Speaker 4: Section, that's the other thing. It doesn't get you past
Speaker 4: the comics. Like, it's not like it's giving a job.
Speaker 4: It's not like it's getting you respect. It's not like
Speaker 4: it's getting you like friends.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. It's awful because everybody, and I'm saying everybody
Speaker 3: at the highest levels of like this kind of stardom,
Speaker 3: that that is like what they're dealing with. It is
Speaker 3: I'm just telling I'm just telling everybody like from like
Speaker 3: like from what I've seen, which is not too much,
Speaker 3: but it's like, oh shit, like even in small glimpses
Speaker 3: like at us and now it's like we just we
Speaker 3: just you just cycle through like different case studies and
Speaker 3: fame and it's just that's the common thread and it's
Speaker 3: really fucked up. Anyway, we should move on.
Speaker 2: We want to ask you the question that we ask
Speaker 2: all of our guests, which is Chapel roam, what was
Speaker 2: the culture that made you?
Speaker 3: Say? Culture was for you?
Speaker 2: So basically this can be a movie, a music artist, environmental,
Speaker 2: something about growing up, just whatever it means to you,
Speaker 2: the culture that.
Speaker 3: Made you you.
Speaker 4: I'm really glad that guinea pigs have their own culture
Speaker 4: online because I'm a guinea pick girl.
Speaker 3: Wow, is this going to be I ever talked about that?
Speaker 4: A lot of people don't know that about the guinea.
Speaker 3: Pigs were in We're on SNL for the Giver Oh in.
Speaker 4: The background, yes for animal. Yes, the guinea pigs were
Speaker 4: back there.
Speaker 3: Talk about guinea pig culture.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm just obsessed with them. I had four a time,
Speaker 4: but they passed away. But I I am obsessed with them.
Speaker 4: I think they're the cutest animals on earth. I worked
Speaker 4: out a guinea I volunteered out of Guinea Pig Rescue
Speaker 4: for a year. I love rodents in general, and I
Speaker 4: love the guinea pig community online is awesome. I love
Speaker 4: that community. I think the culture and like all seriousness
Speaker 4: that made me feel like me was drag. Yes, at first,
Speaker 4: I was very freaked out by drag. I was like,
Speaker 4: I was like the clutch, the.
Speaker 3: Pearls girl, is that coming from where you're where you
Speaker 3: come from? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd never like the first time I went to
Speaker 4: a drag show, I was eighteen seventeen or eighteen, and
Speaker 4: it was Hamburger Mary's Oh Wow, And I was like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, why do they keep saying anus. That's disgusting.
Speaker 3: They do that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I was like I just went I was like,
Speaker 4: that was so fun, But why did they have to
Speaker 4: just make everything so.
Speaker 3: I feel strange?
Speaker 4: I was like yes, and I was like what the hell?
Speaker 4: And then I just got addicted to it. So and
Speaker 4: that has taken like a long time. Yeah, like that
Speaker 4: is in my actually in my blood now and like
Speaker 4: to realize all of that. How it freaked me out
Speaker 4: at first was really just me not having any gay
Speaker 4: culture at all expressed in my life whatsoever. So like yeah,
Speaker 4: and there was no sarcasm like that. There was no
Speaker 4: like I had no idea who John Waters was like
Speaker 4: and like it was so cool to like see a
Speaker 4: whole community of people being gross on purpose for the
Speaker 4: sake of being, for the sake of pearl clutching. Yes, yes,
Speaker 4: like that is amazing to me. I love tackiness. I
Speaker 4: fucking love bad hair, I love bad style. I love cameltoe,
Speaker 4: I love I love, love love a bad dye job.
Speaker 4: I love roots, I love like. I fucking love when
Speaker 4: people get their teeth knocked out. I love like I
Speaker 4: love that ship. Yeah, give me a nipslib. That's the
Speaker 4: least you could do. Like, Yeah, So that culture of
Speaker 4: like trashy on purpose is so freeing to Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 4: I love that and the guinea pig culture. And I
Speaker 4: also really appreciate the two girls don't remember the names
Speaker 4: who also believed in fairies with me. I love the
Speaker 4: fairy culture. I think that they're real. Maybe I don't.
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna say that. And I really appreciate the
Speaker 4: fairy culture because fairies make me happy. And I lied
Speaker 4: to everyone that I saw them.
Speaker 2: You are a fairy guinea pig. You did you know that?
Speaker 2: And you know that you know you've always known a
Speaker 2: deep down I like you know.
Speaker 4: I love But also the there's been a real awakening
Speaker 4: which I grew up on the Barbie movies, like the
Speaker 4: Crazy Crazy. I saw a compilation the other day of
Speaker 4: the Barbie Animals of the How fucking crazy it was,
Speaker 4: and like Barbie raised me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think fairies and Barbie is.
Speaker 4: A Barbie fairy Toopia, and that is where Bibble came from.
Speaker 4: And Bibble is basically a flying guinea pig.
Speaker 3: So yeah, do you feel like the fairies visit you
Speaker 3: when you're writing, when you're being creative? Are you channeling
Speaker 3: the fairies in a way? Are the fairies in the walls?
Speaker 3: And what are your muses? Like? Like, I think the
Speaker 3: fairies are your muse.
Speaker 4: I usually I would say yes, fairies visit me. But
Speaker 4: I think like the way I write now is from
Speaker 4: like I take things that are really fucked up and
Speaker 4: then make it really like I don't know, Like it's
Speaker 4: the same with like the subway. The lyrics are usually
Speaker 4: always darker, right, and they become like very very dark,
Speaker 4: and then.
Speaker 3: They become like light do a brightening draft?
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, so it's always like heavy dark and
Speaker 4: then you know, then the fairies come and twinkle their
Speaker 4: fairy does and it's like, yeah, maybe all of a
Speaker 4: sudden can actually be on the radio. Sorry, I've given
Speaker 4: like three cultures.
Speaker 3: They're good because they're sharing to each other. Oh, you
Speaker 3: need to keep sharing.
Speaker 2: I want to return to guinea pigs the sentence of
Speaker 2: the day because I had hamsters when I was little
Speaker 2: and one of the most traumatic things I think I've
Speaker 2: ever been through.
Speaker 4: I tell you every story.
Speaker 2: They were named Chippendale and one day my dad said
Speaker 2: I have to talk to you and I was like what,
Speaker 2: And then he basically was like, we don't have Ship
Speaker 2: and Dale anymore. I was like, what they had eaten
Speaker 2: each other chapel, That's what happened. They had eaten each
Speaker 2: other alive. I don't know if it was throws of passion.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they had a gay fight.
Speaker 3: They ate each other.
Speaker 2: At the same time, Chip and Dale killed each other.
Speaker 2: It was wh what is that?
Speaker 3: Beta fish? They fight each other, they kill each other.
Speaker 2: It couldn't compute. And now getting older and knowing human
Speaker 2: nature and animal nature, I sort of get it. Like
Speaker 2: they were cooped up together for a long time with
Speaker 2: they were Chip and Dale.
Speaker 4: That's hard. I was Spoisers territory.
Speaker 3: They're vicious it's true, but what were they territorial over
Speaker 3: like the space they.
Speaker 4: Just you know what, I'm five guinea pigs, Yes, I
Speaker 4: can't normally most of the time you can't have two
Speaker 4: more than two together, and like you're lucky if they
Speaker 4: bond correctly as two boys, like you have to like
Speaker 4: bond them correctly or else they will fucking like try
Speaker 4: to kill each other. So maybe they just like did
Speaker 4: not get what they were just not bonded correctly, or
Speaker 4: they were Ah, they're hamster. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Did you have gay ones?
Speaker 4: I only had girls do really well with like multiple girls.
Speaker 2: God, it's not always the case, it is it always
Speaker 2: is the case.
Speaker 3: Do you want to like have one now to like
Speaker 3: have around with you?
Speaker 4: I wish I had there? What is so like guinea
Speaker 4: pigs are not really children's pets, Like they're way more
Speaker 4: difficult to take care of than a dog or a cat. Really, yes,
Speaker 4: because you can't just like pour them a bowl of food,
Speaker 4: like they need a specific type of hay, they need
Speaker 4: vitamin C, like they need a specific type of fruits
Speaker 4: and vegetables, Like you have to give them supplements and
Speaker 4: you also like have to clean their cage. They can
Speaker 4: only have certain types of bedding. You have to exercise them.
Speaker 4: You can't just let them wander around like they're not
Speaker 4: potty train. They have to be cleaned and like they
Speaker 4: need bubble bats, they need their nails shrimped. It's like
Speaker 4: not easy. So we had very so many people come
Speaker 4: to the rescue. We're like, this is my first pet.
Speaker 4: I'm nine, and I'm like, oh, And I think that's
Speaker 4: why so many people have so many traumatic stories, because
Speaker 4: they're actually such difficult pets to.
Speaker 2: And maybe I maybe we just didn't know that because
Speaker 2: I'm imagining it's the same, like sociologically, I guess because
Speaker 2: they killed each other, right.
Speaker 4: But everyone has a crazy hamster, guinea picker, gerble story, gurbles.
Speaker 3: I can relate to the rodents. I'm a rodent girl. Yes,
Speaker 3: well okay, and maintenance. I'm I'm little. You need vitamin
Speaker 3: C repellets.
Speaker 2: I need my Hey, hon, can I tell you I
Speaker 2: might have beendeed deficient?
Speaker 4: Are you?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 3: Do you take like a vitamin decapsule?
Speaker 2: I must, you should, Yeah, But it's like sometimes getting
Speaker 2: out there in the sun is like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: better in theory, but then you get sunburnt.
Speaker 4: Can I ask you, Yeah, why do you speaking of
Speaker 4: the sun in New York cruising?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And I this is like I someone asked me this,
Speaker 4: like a gay guy friend asked me the other day
Speaker 4: of like why don't lesbian's cruise?
Speaker 3: Huh?
Speaker 4: And I want to know what you think.
Speaker 3: This is what I think.
Speaker 2: I think because gay sex is a lot more transactional
Speaker 2: and a lot more projection y. So it's like, actually,
Speaker 2: it's funny like this, this person that I was sleeping with,
Speaker 2: we went on our first date and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't hook up a lot because I feel that
Speaker 2: it's a lot to do with like projection, and I
Speaker 2: don't really need that, Like talking about what we were talking
Speaker 2: about earlier about how like sex actually is like two
Speaker 2: people coming together and you usually can.
Speaker 3: I find this too.
Speaker 2: It's like when you have like good eye contact with
Speaker 2: someone or like the conversation is easy. That's why people
Speaker 2: talk about like the banter, and it like just directly
Speaker 2: translates because that's what this person was looking.
Speaker 3: For and is looking for.
Speaker 2: And I think even more me and I've never really
Speaker 2: done like the cruisy thing and the like random hookup thing,
Speaker 2: Like of course I've done I've I've experienced it and
Speaker 2: like experimented, but like I never felt comfortable going in
Speaker 2: and out of those situations. A lot of people do
Speaker 2: and like that's great, But I think it has to
Speaker 2: do with just what gay guys are looking for and
Speaker 2: needing out of sex, and it's just transactional.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it can live in a marketplace, it can live
Speaker 3: in like a bathhouse or a park. It can live.
Speaker 3: There's a space for it. Whereas like, just to generalize,
Speaker 3: I feel like among lesbians it's like it's very there's
Speaker 3: no like end point to sex. Necessarily it's emotional. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's achievement based. It's not achievement based, as that
Speaker 3: you're investing time and energy and care for each other
Speaker 3: in a way that like is not going to be
Speaker 3: condensed into like a sexual internection. Yeah, that's our theory.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Does that sound right? I do.
Speaker 4: No. I imagine you were like, well, the answer is no,
Speaker 4: I don't know what. I don't know the answer. I've
Speaker 4: just been because I was naive and I went to
Speaker 4: Central Park and I was like, everybody is loving the sun.
Speaker 4: It's just out in this you know.
Speaker 3: It's like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I was like they're like someone was like,
Speaker 4: they're cruising and I was like, I was like, what
Speaker 4: cruise cruising? What and so And I was like, so,
Speaker 4: I've just been asking, like take on cruising and also
Speaker 4: why people think that it's not in the lesbian culture
Speaker 4: as much. I'm sure it is in some capacity that
Speaker 4: I just don't know about. Yeah, I'm very out of
Speaker 4: the loop, but I am just I'm very curious about
Speaker 4: it what people's takes are, especially in New York because
Speaker 4: it's like maybe it is in San Francisco more too,
Speaker 4: but I don't really know about it.
Speaker 2: In La La, I think, well, l A is l
Speaker 2: A is weird because it's it's it's the king of.
Speaker 3: This looking over your shoulder. It's constant but and you
Speaker 3: know what it is.
Speaker 2: It's like it's not even cruising as much as it
Speaker 2: Moore is just like constant comparison and like wondering how
Speaker 2: if you can do better. That's kind of and it's
Speaker 2: not to again, I hate dragging a whole city because
Speaker 2: I love La and like, but I have found with
Speaker 2: dating it is a lot harder, a lot.
Speaker 4: Hard People say that I came to New York because
Speaker 4: La is really hard to date.
Speaker 2: In especially when like you're not like because now I'm
Speaker 2: I just turned thirty five. It's like I'm kind of
Speaker 2: looking now for something that could be my next like relationship.
Speaker 2: And I understand this, Like I get it, I whatever,
Speaker 2: But it can be a little demoralizing as you get
Speaker 2: older and are looking for something else. So better to
Speaker 2: just take yourself out of the environment entirely, which is
Speaker 2: why I moved to New York.
Speaker 3: You can move back, so New York. We don't have
Speaker 3: our fucking phone stolen as much at the abbey. Wait,
Speaker 3: this is a thing. Did have you heard about this
Speaker 3: pony club? You talked about it? Is it you doing it?
Speaker 3: We've all had our phone stolen. I went to you,
Speaker 3: I've never had my phone stolen. I would guys have
Speaker 3: I've had my phone stolen, Not.
Speaker 4: At that, not at the abbey, but I've had three
Speaker 4: friends and one night I have their phone stolen.
Speaker 3: Yes, And you know what they were saying, it was
Speaker 3: it was the theory was that it was a bunch
Speaker 3: of short women to women because they could just not
Speaker 3: that they're picking on the women, But that was the
Speaker 3: theory they were. They were picking on me.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, why not short guys. The short guy said
Speaker 4: that it was.
Speaker 2: It was the short women, they said, but there were
Speaker 2: it was. It became like epidemic there for a while
Speaker 2: in La.
Speaker 4: It's crazy. It's like, I don't know, my friend just
Speaker 4: got his phone stolen off the grove. So the grove
Speaker 4: crazy out there right now at the grove.
Speaker 3: Where are you at the Oh my god?
Speaker 4: Is it? Oh?
Speaker 3: Was it not a l o?
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I'm butchering it. Send us clothes
Speaker 2: and maybe we'll figure it out. No, but yeah, no,
Speaker 2: the grove. Wow, imagine cruising at the grove.
Speaker 3: It happened.
Speaker 2: One time I saw my favorite porn star at the grove.
Speaker 2: Should I say who it is?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 3: His name is Chris Damned. He's great and I saw Damned.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome. But he's not like demonic. He's like
Speaker 2: quite lovely.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: But by the way, a lot of people are my favorites,
Speaker 2: and I don't have one favorite. At the time, I
Speaker 2: was gagged because there he was at the grove. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, we're a star star.
Speaker 3: It's time. Oh my god, it might be time. I
Speaker 3: don't think so, honey, I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 2: And I like, I was sort of going back and
Speaker 2: forth about what I was going to do. I guess
Speaker 2: I'll do this, okay, because we also had a caffeine
Speaker 2: conversation before getting on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I'll do that. Hey, so this is I
Speaker 3: don't think so honey.
Speaker 2: It's our one minute segment where we take sixty seconds
Speaker 2: aka one minute if you really think about it.
Speaker 3: To rip something apart in culture. And here we go.
Speaker 3: This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so many time starts. Now.
Speaker 3: I don't think, so honey that coffee gives you coffee breath.
Speaker 4: That sucks.
Speaker 3: We need to figure it out.
Speaker 2: Like actually wake up in the morning and I'm become
Speaker 2: that person where I open my eyes and I need caffeine.
Speaker 2: I don't think, so honey that it's gonna change anytime soon.
Speaker 2: Our guest is off caffeine, and I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: inspired by that. But it's just another one of my
Speaker 2: strange addictions. I now wake up in the morning, and
Speaker 2: also now I have relationships with the coffee shops. Those
Speaker 2: are my girls. I have my girls in LA and
Speaker 2: I have my girls in New York. And I just
Speaker 2: realized in this moment I'm leaving my apartment in La
Speaker 2: and I'm leaving my girls. Oh that's really hardly so
Speaker 2: back to what I was there, So sweet Fernanda. She
Speaker 2: also stands Lonna del Rush and we and like literally
Speaker 2: when I said I was going to Coachella, she goes,
Speaker 2: I love Lana.
Speaker 3: She did seconds and so she's an icon.
Speaker 2: But listen, the thing about coffee is it gives you
Speaker 2: coffee breath, which is so bad for kissing, speaking, breathing,
Speaker 2: et cetera and more. And I just want to figure
Speaker 2: out a way to get my fix of caffeine and
Speaker 2: not have coffee breath. I guess here it is Dia, Coke, Celsius, etcetera.
Speaker 2: But I love coffee. I don't think so, Hony, that's
Speaker 2: one minute.
Speaker 3: Like I'm now at the place where you just gotta
Speaker 3: you just gotta go cold turkey on it. I think,
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 2: But it's like now it's like so built into my
Speaker 2: life getting a cold brew right away first thing when.
Speaker 3: You wake up.
Speaker 4: I quit over Christmas break And was it just because
Speaker 4: like you were getting Oh yeah, I was just like
Speaker 4: going crazy. I was like already too anxious and so
Speaker 4: like I was like, if I want to actually calm down.
Speaker 4: I have to take every stimulant away. Yeah, very stimulant.
Speaker 3: So wait, do you smoke weed?
Speaker 4: Not right now?
Speaker 3: Not right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like basically, are you in a place right
Speaker 2: now of like there's nothing going in good.
Speaker 4: I wish let me say that there's an asterisk. I
Speaker 4: want to fuck ton of drugs though, like yeah, yeah, yea,
Speaker 4: I'm like, but it's not recreational. No, not right now, no, queen,
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, come on, I'm yeah, I've got my I
Speaker 4: also have insomnia, so like, and I'm bipolar. So it's
Speaker 4: like really hard if you are like not sleeping and
Speaker 4: doing weed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's cocktail.
Speaker 4: The cocktail. But I do love an edible. I do
Speaker 4: love shrimps. Thank you, Silo for sending me a box.
Speaker 4: I don't know how you did that legally.
Speaker 2: Hey, silou, and we can love that I know next time.
Speaker 4: But I agree with you, it's really hard. Quitting caffeine
Speaker 4: sucks for four weeks straight, well because then you're Okay.
Speaker 3: What we're not reckoning with is it is a drug totally.
Speaker 3: It is a drug.
Speaker 2: Like and now I actually wondered about that, like people
Speaker 2: that are in AA and stuff, like I wonder what
Speaker 2: the relationship is with caffeine.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a support group out there for you.
Speaker 3: That's wild. I think we can. Let's do it together. Well,
Speaker 3: it's like added to the list.
Speaker 2: I'm now a place where it's just like I don't
Speaker 2: know why I keep doing this, but I just keep
Speaker 2: I'm moving to a new apartment in New York, and
Speaker 2: I keep associating that with the day my new life
Speaker 2: will begin. But like, you can't. That's like, that's like
Speaker 2: addicts speak to you to yourself. It's like, well, I'll
Speaker 2: be I'll be sober from this thing by age thirty five,
Speaker 2: or like I'll just stop doing this on May twelve,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like, but why wouldn't you just stop
Speaker 3: doing it now?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So that's me with caffeine, and this would solve my
Speaker 2: coffee breath problem period. I think very afraid of people,
Speaker 2: like I think the one of the worst things that
Speaker 2: could happen is for.
Speaker 3: People to be like, oh, he has bad breath. That's bad.
Speaker 4: That is my worst nightmare.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or someone saying that don't worry anyway, don't worry about.
Speaker 2: It, okay, bowing yang, you actually came in galvanized today
Speaker 2: I did. Okay, so this is bowing yang' I don't
Speaker 2: think so many time starts now, I don't think.
Speaker 3: So many amper sands. You're doing too much. Oh why
Speaker 3: do you look like that? Why do you look like other? Ways?
Speaker 3: Stay in one lane, figure out one Look. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: draw an ampersanda right now. Okay, and now I have
Speaker 3: carple tunnel. That is crazy that shape, And here's I
Speaker 3: looked it up. This is what ampersanda is short for,
Speaker 3: quote unquote and per se and honey, just say and
Speaker 3: just say, and you will never be plus. You will
Speaker 3: never be universal, worldwide global like plus is good luck
Speaker 3: finding an am person in any non Latin based writing system.
Speaker 3: Plus is here to stay. Plus everyone on earth, from
Speaker 3: children to elders, knows what plus means. It will sit
Speaker 3: in for and just fine. And if you're too lazy
Speaker 3: to write a n D, honey, you're in for a
Speaker 3: root awakening. Lots of other challenges in life up ahead
Speaker 3: for you. It's not saving you time, it's gonna give
Speaker 3: you wrist problems. And you're being stupid. And that's what
Speaker 3: I didn't stick the landing, No, No, you did that
Speaker 3: was great. That was epic universe. Thank you.
Speaker 2: I have to say, especially as two people who often
Speaker 2: are Matt and Bowen and the em person is in there,
Speaker 2: don't do it.
Speaker 3: Don't do it. From now on, it's Matt plus Bowen, right,
Speaker 3: Matt plus Bowen. We were doing plus. I used to
Speaker 3: nam persan. Recently, I'm gonna I'm gonna start to retroactively.
Speaker 3: You ended am person today. Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Sorry thoughts on a person?
Speaker 4: I use it everything.
Speaker 3: No, wait, when you're doing what I.
Speaker 4: Will, I write incursive and so it's like I'm like,
Speaker 4: I use an signed all the time.
Speaker 3: Though, how do you write it? How do you write?
Speaker 4: I don't do that crazy eight thing.
Speaker 3: It's the crazy eight thing is that you do the
Speaker 3: reverse three in the line down the middle.
Speaker 4: I just go it looks like an upside down four.
Speaker 3: No, that's a plus sign.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, then I do that.
Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait, because you've also done it. I don't
Speaker 2: think so, honey, on the letter nine.
Speaker 3: On the letter nine, the number nine, sassame street, reach out.
Speaker 3: You need us there to teach the children. Wait, the
Speaker 3: number nine.
Speaker 2: So wait, if you don't like am percent, how can
Speaker 2: you stand by the number eight because.
Speaker 3: Eight represents the number eight, and but it still will
Speaker 3: give you a carpor tunnel if asked to write it,
Speaker 3: if to ask with writing it. And it's easier for
Speaker 3: me to write eight the numeral than it is to
Speaker 3: write E I, G H T. And is barely saving
Speaker 3: you any time from writing. And I do agree that.
Speaker 2: Handwriting and ampersand is like a mind fuck. But you know,
Speaker 2: if you can figure it out, which seems I support.
Speaker 3: Okay, Chapel, I feel like you you you wrote your
Speaker 3: topic down and we don't know what it is yet.
Speaker 4: This is how I do it.
Speaker 2: This is like, okay, is this the creative process? Are
Speaker 2: you always carrying around like a moleskin?
Speaker 4: This isn't mine?
Speaker 2: This is no I know, but but I'm but I'm
Speaker 2: in a world where it is yours, and that's really good.
Speaker 3: Thank you. Okay, it's time, this is Chapel rounds. I
Speaker 3: don't think so, honey. Her time starts now.
Speaker 4: My I don't think so, honey. Is stop. Let people
Speaker 4: get venus. Let let the people have bad venir, let
Speaker 4: them have good veneers, let them fall out, let them
Speaker 4: be pure white, let them look like coffee. Let them
Speaker 4: who cares if they don't fit. What if they love them?
Speaker 4: What if people love their Veneers? What if they saved
Speaker 4: up so long to get these veneers? Thirty seconds and
Speaker 4: then you say that they look fucked up. Don't say
Speaker 4: that to them. Let the girls get veneers, yes, like,
Speaker 4: let them look like buck teeth, and you know what,
Speaker 4: it's okay if they.
Speaker 3: Talk different fifteen seconds.
Speaker 4: That's what happens. When you change your teeth, You're just
Speaker 4: gonna look and talk different, and it's okay. Stop dragging them.
Speaker 4: Your teeth are probably busted, which is fine. But you
Speaker 4: know what, I support you if you got veneers and
Speaker 4: you're busted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's one minute. Okay, this is important. Way,
Speaker 2: this is amazing. It's very American of people to be like,
Speaker 2: I know how teeth are supposed to look.
Speaker 4: Do you want to know my hottest take? How people
Speaker 4: drag cosmetic surgery and drag cosbic whatever. Yeah, you know
Speaker 4: what's fucking cosmetic braces?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So you want to tell me you haven't had cosmetic
Speaker 4: work done, but you've had.
Speaker 3: Braces, hmm, got them? Got them?
Speaker 4: Don't tell me that.
Speaker 3: We've all had gender affirming care. It all me me
Speaker 3: shaving my fucking stubble this morning is g ac wow.
Speaker 3: Not to go there, but are you speaking? And I
Speaker 3: will say this is especially meaningful coming from you because
Speaker 3: I feel like your your your orthodontire is very pristine.
Speaker 4: Because I had fucking I had work done my teeth. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I had fucking visi line for years because I could
Speaker 4: afford it.
Speaker 2: Right, how what was the invisiline process like for you?
Speaker 2: I'm actually flirting with it in my in my brain
Speaker 2: because people have started to get a little mean about
Speaker 2: my teeth.
Speaker 4: Because they're American.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Wow, it's only in the United States that it's fucking
Speaker 4: people are obsessed, obsessed, obsessed, And if you do have
Speaker 4: to and they're fucking yellow, they better not be. Like
Speaker 4: in reality, bitch, you have to have money to do
Speaker 4: this ship right, it's so expensive. No one has fucking healthcare.
Speaker 4: No one has four fucking braces. Like, so I say
Speaker 4: let them be. I say let it be. We need
Speaker 4: girls with different teas.
Speaker 3: I never thought I had bade you bad. You know
Speaker 3: what it is. It's like they're just okay. So this
Speaker 3: was living. This is the truth. This is the truth
Speaker 3: I was. I did. I did a very small role
Speaker 3: in a.
Speaker 2: Movie called Lyle Law Crocodile, a huge movie called you
Speaker 2: Know called My co stars Shawn Mendes as the crocodile
Speaker 2: and Constance wu As herself as a character. But she
Speaker 2: was what was your character? So I played like a
Speaker 2: Ryan Seacrest, like America's got talent, like hosts. Because of
Speaker 2: course Lyle Lyle goes and wiles the judges at the end.
Speaker 2: So the little boy playing the lead I'm saying this
Speaker 2: publicly comes over me, like runs over to me and goes,
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, what's up? He goes, you have sharp
Speaker 2: teeth like a shark.
Speaker 3: And I go literally go, you can't say that to people,
Speaker 3: and he just runs away. And I was like, this.
Speaker 4: Little actor just dragged me to hell.
Speaker 3: And then you know what happened. I went into the
Speaker 3: goddamn bathroom and went like this.
Speaker 2: Pretty shine a line almost.
Speaker 3: Like AMI thinking like what is wrong?
Speaker 4: And then they.
Speaker 2: Started saying like he needs braces. But I also want
Speaker 2: to tell you I tuck it on one side of
Speaker 2: my mouth. So but this is the stuff you Americans
Speaker 2: have gotten in my head.
Speaker 3: And then one guy I was I was dating said
Speaker 3: never change the gap, and change the gap. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: everybody I've dated.
Speaker 4: I've dated a lot of different teeth, and I like
Speaker 4: them all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, as long.
Speaker 4: As you don't have bad breath.
Speaker 3: Who fucking cares, right, that's my coffee.
Speaker 4: I love it. I love it. I love when people
Speaker 4: have gold teeth. I love it when people have missing teeth.
Speaker 4: I love it. Yes, I just like, let's see, it's
Speaker 4: also just like, bitch, so parents could never fucking afford
Speaker 4: their kids to have racist when you grow up, that's
Speaker 4: what's what happens.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 4: And you know what, it's fucking hell to have races,
Speaker 4: and some people really need them because or al s
Speaker 4: they'll have actual like jaw problems, or like teeth will
Speaker 4: start falling out because it's overcrowding whatever. Bitch. Yeah, like,
Speaker 4: but I was actually admiring your teeth the whole time.
Speaker 4: Oh really, yeah, I was like, it's so they're so
Speaker 4: cute and right, and you have very.
Speaker 3: White teeth too. But I thank you for saying this
Speaker 3: important thing about let veneers be yellow, because they should
Speaker 3: be a little yellow, because then someone's gonna say, well,
Speaker 3: those veneers are too white. It's like there's you can't
Speaker 3: win with them.
Speaker 4: They won't win. You won't win.
Speaker 3: That's important. It's not about can't. It's not about should.
Speaker 4: Yeah, or you might win, you will not. That's for
Speaker 4: my therapist on Monday.
Speaker 3: Honestly, are you going once a week?
Speaker 4: Maybe? I'much twice, I mean twice a week. I have
Speaker 4: my biodynamic cranial sacral therapy, I have my acupuncture, I
Speaker 4: have my Oh.
Speaker 3: My girls, I need to try acupuncture. Acupuncture will slag.
Speaker 4: Really, I had to do it like ten times until
Speaker 4: I really was like, I understand it.
Speaker 2: It takes a minute, it takes a se what do
Speaker 2: you mean, like physically it's hard to adjust to it
Speaker 2: or just want to because.
Speaker 4: Like you know, you're like I was trained in like
Speaker 4: only medicine works, like only like taking medicine works, and
Speaker 4: so whenever I don't have like an immediate like I
Speaker 4: take child and then I feel better if I go
Speaker 4: and get acupuncture, and I'm like, nothing's different. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: was like does this work? I don't know. And it's
Speaker 4: like with wellness medicine, you just it's about yeah, you
Speaker 4: have to keep fucking going and showing up. And like
Speaker 4: I realized if like the actual acupuncture itself wasn't doing
Speaker 4: anything differently, I knew that every time I walked in there,
Speaker 4: I immediately got called where Yeah, and that's you know,
Speaker 4: and now I believe that it's doing something. It is
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, it's doing both now right.
Speaker 3: I love that I'm just lying there for like a
Speaker 3: half hour and I can't do anything. Yeah, it's kind
Speaker 3: of cool.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: And it's kind of cool.
Speaker 2: Today was kind of cool. Today was very cool. And
Speaker 2: we were so happy that you were able to come.
Speaker 2: Like we've been wanting to do this with you for
Speaker 2: such a long time and we are you know obviously
Speaker 2: you know it feels like even silly to say, but
Speaker 2: like we are such fans, I know, like we really
Speaker 2: like I just think you're the best.
Speaker 4: You guys made me feel so special. You believed in
Speaker 4: the art, You were the start of the getting the
Speaker 4: queer community on or like no, no, I'm serious like
Speaker 4: you Like I remember guys nominated.
Speaker 3: From Buckingham Palace, love that palace, and I was.
Speaker 4: Like, I can't believe I'm nominated with like Mona, Like
Speaker 4: that's so cool. I was like, this is crazy that
Speaker 4: these were all like nominated. That's feels so big. And
Speaker 4: because I've never been like recognized on a platform that
Speaker 4: big yet, So that was so I don't know, I
Speaker 4: just really appreciate it and that you got it, like
Speaker 4: you were the first people in media to get it
Speaker 4: because you articulated it for the right for the first time,
Speaker 4: because you were like, it's campy, there's lore, and I
Speaker 4: was like, finally someone understands that it's a joke. Finally
Speaker 4: they understand that I'm everything I'm doing is like an
Speaker 4: homage or reference to like the Queer Elders. Finally someone
Speaker 4: understands that it's deeper than just what I'm doing on
Speaker 4: stage or writing about. Like it felt so nice to
Speaker 4: be understood. That is what was so awesome. I was like,
Speaker 4: it's working, and there's they're the proofs.
Speaker 2: And you're so for real and that we just like
Speaker 2: it's been truly surreal and a joy even for us
Speaker 2: to watch everyone really embrace you. And I just hope
Speaker 2: that even sometimes when it feels difficult, you know just
Speaker 2: how helled.
Speaker 3: You are and how loved you are, and how.
Speaker 2: How special we think you are, and like you'll always
Speaker 2: have a place right.
Speaker 3: There right here. Let's get the ears together.
Speaker 2: So we have every episode with a song bo right,
Speaker 2: I mean, we could do one of our guests, but
Speaker 2: also also st it oh.
Speaker 5: By a battle mans Oh bat mans I.
Speaker 3: Knew you'd go on, I went up here everything Bye.
Speaker 3: Last Culture. Racis is the production by Will Ferrell's Big
Speaker 3: Money Players and Ihart Radio.
Speaker 2: Podcasts, created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yek,
Speaker 2: executive produced by Anna Hasnier and produced by Becka Ramos,
Speaker 2: edited mixed by Doug Bami and Nikla Board and our
Speaker 2: music is by Henry Komirski