Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we are saving the
Speaker 2: day here on Stuff you should Know.
Speaker 1: That's right, Chuck.
Speaker 2: I guess I just said that we're secure to save
Speaker 2: the day, and we are. We're going to talk about
Speaker 2: the Cajun Navy in a second, but before we do,
Speaker 2: we just got back from tour and you did something
Speaker 2: that I didn't do and I want to hear about it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, weh. I got tabbed to perform in the
Speaker 1: Hanging with Doctor z Show, which, if you don't know,
Speaker 1: it is comedian Dana Gould has a professional Doctor zayas
Speaker 1: a Planet of the Apes costume, nice and he just
Speaker 1: does a straight up late night talk show as Doctor Zaias.
Speaker 1: That's the only sort of wrinkle to it, and it's
Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun. And I was on. It's
Speaker 1: kind of a straight guy, you know, clearly wasn't the
Speaker 1: improvising comedian, but I did an okay job. But Dave
Speaker 1: Folly of the Kids in the Hall was there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Janet Barney, the Great Andy Daily, and I just
Speaker 1: got to tell you quickly about the night before in
Speaker 1: the hotel. Yeah, I was hanging out in the lobby
Speaker 1: with a friend of the show, Adam Pranica, and friend
Speaker 1: of your life and our good friend and booking agent
Speaker 1: Josh Lingren, having some drinks and all of a sudden, Cole,
Speaker 1: co founder of Sketch Best, walks over with Dave Foley
Speaker 1: and they all sit down and day Folly sits next
Speaker 1: to me and we have like a thirty minute conversation.
Speaker 2: That's so cool. And this is the night before, so
Speaker 2: when you guys were on stage together, you were like
Speaker 2: old pals.
Speaker 1: It was a familiarity built in. Dave Folly was the
Speaker 1: nicest sky you could ever imagine. That's so great, he
Speaker 1: asked him. He clearly had listened to stuff you should
Speaker 1: know because he said something about is Josh here, so
Speaker 1: he knows your name.
Speaker 2: Pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And we're sitting there having a conversation, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, I look up and it's Scott Thompson and
Speaker 1: Bruce McCullough and Kevin McDonald man, and they all see
Speaker 1: Dave and come over, and this is the first time
Speaker 1: they'd seen each other. I mean, I don't know how long,
Speaker 1: but you know, they were doing a screening of brain
Speaker 1: Candy the next night.
Speaker 2: Oh cool.
Speaker 1: And so they were all just seeing each other for
Speaker 1: the first time that weekend, and they It warmed your
Speaker 1: heart so much seeing how much these guys liked each
Speaker 1: other and how they liked seeing each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that makes me really happy to hear
Speaker 2: that they're as great as they seem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was incredible. They were just they were hugging
Speaker 1: and laughing, and I'm looking across at lingern And and
Speaker 1: Adam and We're both have looks on her faces like
Speaker 1: what is happening right now? And Bruce McCullough had the
Speaker 1: one of the funniest lines I've ever seen, you know,
Speaker 1: how you just bag on friends as a as a rule.
Speaker 1: They're all standing around and laughing and Bruce McCullough goes,
Speaker 1: isn't it great that Mark isn't here?
Speaker 2: Mark?
Speaker 1: It was so funny, man, It was like the perfect
Speaker 1: line at the perfect and they all busted out laughing
Speaker 1: and I got to I got to kind of eavesdrop
Speaker 1: on their stories. And then the next night Scott Thompson
Speaker 1: telling stories. Today, Foley, I'm just like a fly on
Speaker 1: the wall trying to be invisible, just trying to soak
Speaker 1: in these stories about Lorne Michael's in the early days
Speaker 1: and like trashing hotel rooms, and it was it was
Speaker 1: just great.
Speaker 2: That's really cool man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that she could have been there. That was the
Speaker 1: only thing missing was you.
Speaker 2: I wish I could have too, And thank you for
Speaker 2: saying that. That's nice. But thanks for telling me all
Speaker 2: about it, and congrats on a great showing at the
Speaker 2: What is it hanging with Doctor Z?
Speaker 1: Hanging with Doctor Z? Dana's the best. He's so funny.
Speaker 2: Is it anywhere? Like somebody can see it online?
Speaker 1: I don't know if they. I don't think they shot
Speaker 1: video for this. I'm curious, But go watch episodes of
Speaker 1: Hanging with Doctor C. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Okay, cool, cool. Well, that was great. Thank you for
Speaker 2: telling everybody about it. And I guess now, let's you
Speaker 2: want to start the episode about the Cajun Navy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Not too long ago in an episode,
Speaker 1: we had a listener mail that referenced the Cajun Navy.
Speaker 1: It is not something that I had heard of, even
Speaker 1: though it has been sort of all over the news.
Speaker 1: But I don't watch news with my eyes and ears
Speaker 1: I generally read stuff, and I guess it just had
Speaker 1: never read anything about this, even though the Cajun Navy
Speaker 1: seems like have done a lot of great things, but
Speaker 1: there's also some criticism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good example of how absolutely everything in
Speaker 2: the United States can become politicized.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point.
Speaker 2: And it is like I get criticisms, I also get
Speaker 2: the praise as well, Like at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: these these dudes, as you'll see, are putting their lives
Speaker 2: on the line to help other people.
Speaker 1: That's right. What we're talking about is a group of
Speaker 1: men and women. Now there are many different groups, but
Speaker 1: it's been dubbed the Cajun Navy, and it sprang from
Speaker 1: Hurricane Katrina when they were like, hey, we need more help.
Speaker 1: We need help beyond FEMA in this case, it's so devastating.
Speaker 1: We know that you've got boats, you got airboats, and
Speaker 1: you have the will people of Louisiana, and the call
Speaker 1: went out and they people came to help and helped
Speaker 1: a lot, and they were dubbed the Cajun Navy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So although the Cajun Navy is we'll see, like
Speaker 2: as we understand it today, really kind of developed in
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. Basically all the origin stories, all competing origin stories,
Speaker 2: traced through themselves back to Katrina. And that is a
Speaker 2: good place to start because that is one of the
Speaker 2: best examples of government failing it's people that has happened
Speaker 2: in recent history. The Bush administration, FEMA, like they just
Speaker 2: botched helping people, and so there was a really big
Speaker 2: vacuum that other people who were just basically moved to
Speaker 2: go help people who'd just been left behind, like, hey,
Speaker 2: good luck on your roof, hopefully everything works out. People
Speaker 2: got their own boats, they got their own trailers. They
Speaker 2: drove to New Orleans and got as close as they could.
Speaker 2: They put their boats in when they hit the water,
Speaker 2: and they went and rescued those people themselves. No one
Speaker 2: paid them, no one even really asked them to do this.
Speaker 2: They just knew that people were in trouble, they knew
Speaker 2: that they could help them. And so I think, as
Speaker 2: Governor Kathleen Blanco later said, when she was kind of
Speaker 2: talking about this retrospectively, she said, it was Louisiana people
Speaker 2: helping Louisiana people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, there were some asks and calls for help.
Speaker 1: There was a Louisiana State center named Nick Gautro, and
Speaker 1: he went on the TV in the radio during Katrina,
Speaker 1: and he said, hey, if you've got a boat, we
Speaker 1: need your help. There's a mall outside of New Orleans
Speaker 1: and Lafayette about one hundred and fifty miles away, and
Speaker 1: we could use some people. And he thought, maybe, you know,
Speaker 1: twenty thirty people might show up. Close to four hundred
Speaker 1: people show up, showed up, and they ended up forming
Speaker 1: an eight mile convoy of trucks and boats. And in
Speaker 1: the end, CBS News reports that they rescued ten thousand
Speaker 1: people during Katrina alone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is where they were dubbed the Cajun
Speaker 2: Navy later on. But like, this is just it's astounding,
Speaker 2: Like from the outset, it was just just amazing, like
Speaker 2: just the number of people who shut up, the number
Speaker 2: of people they saved. And this is exactly the kind
Speaker 2: of thing that people love to read about, hear about,
Speaker 2: see about, because it's like, yes, people are still basically good.
Speaker 2: And then on the other hand, we also as a
Speaker 2: country in particular, love to start picking apart everybody, including
Speaker 2: heroes who selfishly act.
Speaker 1: That's right. The guy who would later become one of
Speaker 1: the founders of the United Cajun Navy, and like we said,
Speaker 1: there's a I think close to thirty or more people
Speaker 1: are groups organizations who have dubbed themselves some version of
Speaker 1: a Cajun Navy like this. Yeah, well we should point
Speaker 1: out that only three of those are nonprofits.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's a big, big deal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a red flag in some cases. But this
Speaker 1: guy's name was Todd Terrell, and he owned a seafood
Speaker 1: business that was completely devastated during the first few days
Speaker 1: of Katrina. So he lost everything, and after that he
Speaker 1: didn't take his shrip net and go home. He said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to help rescue people, and so he kind
Speaker 1: of headed up a lot of this and ended up
Speaker 1: one of the actual founders of the United Cajun Navy,
Speaker 1: like I said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the United Cajun Navy's one of the big ones,
Speaker 2: maybe the biggest, definitely the most professionalized, and they are
Speaker 2: a five OHO one C three nonprofit. But the Cajun
Speaker 2: Navy moniker itself is shared by a number of different groups,
Speaker 2: like you said, And there's something about these people in
Speaker 2: particular that make them they have a very specific set
Speaker 2: of skills. I guess you could say one a lot
Speaker 2: of them are Cajun and grew up, spent their whole
Speaker 2: lives and still spend a lot of their time out
Speaker 2: on the bayou in boats that are designed to navigate
Speaker 2: obstacles in very shallow water.
Speaker 1: That is to say, airboats, airboats, p rogues.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's well those two. I think bass boats also,
Speaker 2: they use a lot of bass boats. So not only
Speaker 2: are their boats designed for this, they have a lot
Speaker 2: of experience they getting around a dumpster, but say in
Speaker 2: the form of like a cypress tree, and all of
Speaker 2: the knees like, they know what they're doing. They're expert
Speaker 2: boatmen and boat people. How about that? Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: there's a there's a really like big incentive for these
Speaker 2: to welcome these people because they know what they're doing.
Speaker 2: The issue is, as we'll see again and again, they
Speaker 2: are expert both people. They don't necessarily have search and
Speaker 2: rescue training. And that's one of the probably the biggest,
Speaker 2: most legitimate criticisms of the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, even though I was born in Katrina,
Speaker 1: believe he kind of hinted that twenty sixteen, during the
Speaker 1: thousand Year Flood of Louisiana, when thirty one inches of
Speaker 1: rain fell on Baton Rouge over the course of twenty
Speaker 1: four hours.
Speaker 2: Insane.
Speaker 1: It was an incredible amount of rain, completely devastating. The
Speaker 1: first you know, when Katrina happened, that was pre smartphone
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. That was the difference. Was all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you had fifty six of Louisiana sixty four parishes were
Speaker 1: declared federal disaster areas, and you had a Cajun navy
Speaker 1: at work with smartphones and social media that could triangulate
Speaker 1: and who could posts like we need people here, we
Speaker 1: need people there. It became much more organized, much more
Speaker 1: cohesive in twenty sixteen thanks to you know, social media
Speaker 1: and smartphones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in particular an app called Zello.
Speaker 1: This sounds cool, I'm going to try this out with
Speaker 1: a fanly we.
Speaker 2: You should go check out the website for the app,
Speaker 2: like just there, you know, all the different bells and
Speaker 2: whistles that has it is nuts. So basically, Zello turns
Speaker 2: a cell phone into a walkie talkie. Even if you
Speaker 2: barely have a signal, you can use it. Like with
Speaker 2: a low enough signal that you couldn't make a call,
Speaker 2: you can still use your phone as a Zelo walkie talkie.
Speaker 1: So cool.
Speaker 2: It gets even better. It translates, you can speak and
Speaker 2: it will translate into another language that you select. You
Speaker 2: can coordinate with people who speak different languages. And all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, now all of these people who only
Speaker 2: had cell phones can now coordinate and organize and be
Speaker 2: much more effective than just like say, two guys in
Speaker 2: a boat and there's two other guys in a boat here.
Speaker 2: Now they're saying, well, this is where people need the
Speaker 2: most help. Let's send these guys out here because they're
Speaker 2: closest to go get those people. Like there was a
Speaker 2: completely different level of coordination and organization than in Katrina.
Speaker 1: Does it translate the Cajun accent?
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say it, but yes it does.
Speaker 2: I will give you full reassurance.
Speaker 1: You know who could help us with that as their
Speaker 1: old buddy.
Speaker 2: Doug, right, Doug Shashery. Yeah cheshree.
Speaker 1: We've met him backstage are two New Orleans shows. What
Speaker 1: a good guy.
Speaker 2: He treats us so well. He brought us budan m hm,
Speaker 2: and we just went to town on those things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so good sausage balls, right, Yeah, that's what it is, right,
Speaker 2: Freddie Gravy sausage balls. They're amazing.
Speaker 1: It's so good. The Cajun Navy these days, though, is
Speaker 1: a big deal. Like you said, like the three like
Speaker 1: super legitimate. And I'm not saying that none others are
Speaker 1: doing good work, but the three nonprofits are like big,
Speaker 1: big time. They have multimillion dollar budgets. Now, they have
Speaker 1: chapters all like even in Hawaii, they have them all
Speaker 1: over the country, and they are funded by charitable donations.
Speaker 1: They're staff by volunteers. And that seems like a good
Speaker 1: time for a break, good intro, I agree. All right,
Speaker 1: it's an early break, but we'll be right back. All right,
Speaker 1: we're back, and we're gonna talk about the credo of
Speaker 1: the Cajun Navy, because if they're known for one thing,
Speaker 1: that is like don't wait around and just say people
Speaker 1: just get things done. And their credo is it's unofficial,
Speaker 1: but it seems pretty official is act first and deal
Speaker 1: with the consequences later.
Speaker 2: Right, which, on one hand is like, yep, if you
Speaker 2: are stuck on your roof, that is the kind of
Speaker 2: person you want to come get you. You don't want
Speaker 2: them to filling out forms to get permission to come
Speaker 2: rescue you from your roof, right, that's right. On the
Speaker 2: other hand, there's reasons for regulations safety for everybody there,
Speaker 2: there's reasons for government in that sense. Right. This is
Speaker 2: where this is where the kind of breakdown starts to occur.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's start with the good of acting first. You're
Speaker 1: going to rescue a lot more people, a lot quicker.
Speaker 1: You're going to get food and aid to people a
Speaker 1: lot quicker. A very great example of this was Hurricane Harvey,
Speaker 1: the Category four that dumped sixty inches of brain in
Speaker 1: Texas over of course of four days. It was completely devastating,
Speaker 1: apparently the wettest costly as hurricane in US history. And
Speaker 1: because of what happened in twenty sixteen, I think they
Speaker 1: felt like, hey, the call is coming now from Texas.
Speaker 1: There was a call specifically in one case that was
Speaker 1: a nursing home in Port Arthur that was underwater. Cajun
Speaker 1: Navy volunteers rushed out there. They got there, they found,
Speaker 1: you know, people not able to get out of their wheelchairs,
Speaker 1: stuck up to their knees, and sewage water they hadn't
Speaker 1: eaten since at least the day before. They were hydrated.
Speaker 1: Many of them were confused and it kind of came
Speaker 1: literally to blows when a Navy volunteer named Ben Husser
Speaker 1: went to get these people out, and the director was like,
Speaker 1: our corporate policy, sir says, it has to be a
Speaker 1: national guard evacuating us.
Speaker 2: Right, And so ben Husser said that he beat the
Speaker 2: hell out of this guy. He drew has gone on
Speaker 2: him at one point to basically say, you need to
Speaker 2: get out of my way because we're evacuating these elderly patients.
Speaker 2: So you're clearly neglecting. And they did. They ended up
Speaker 2: they ended up evacuating this group of nursing home patients,
Speaker 2: got them to I think a bowling alley or a
Speaker 2: movie theater, both which were turned into basically emergency centers
Speaker 2: for people shelters. And this was like, this story is
Speaker 2: tailor made for social media, right.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why it's taylor made for social
Speaker 2: media is because it only presents one side, and it
Speaker 2: presents like what seems like the morally correct approach to
Speaker 2: this situation. Just like anything, there's another nothing is black
Speaker 2: and white. And so this nursing home director, in one sense, yes,
Speaker 2: he was following his corporate orders that he was not
Speaker 2: supposed to let anybody else evacuate the patients, but he
Speaker 2: was responsible for these patients. On top of that, there
Speaker 2: are studies that show that evacuating elderly and medically frail
Speaker 2: people can actually be deadlier than having them shelter in place.
Speaker 2: That's even if you're evacuating them ahead of a storm.
Speaker 2: This was in the middle of a storm that these
Speaker 2: elderly and medically frail people were evacuated. And then thirdly,
Speaker 2: these Keijun Navy guys showed up. They don't have like
Speaker 2: id cards that say Cajun Navy signed by the Governor
Speaker 2: of Louisiana. They're just some dudes that showed up, one
Speaker 2: of which pulled a gun on the director of the
Speaker 2: nursing home and said, we're getting these old people who
Speaker 2: you're responsible for out of here. Get out of our way,
Speaker 2: or we're going to beat you up and shoot you.
Speaker 2: So like to this is the Cajun Navy is just
Speaker 2: such a great flashpoint because it's so easy to almost
Speaker 2: cartoonize what they're doing, for better or worse, and just
Speaker 2: completely ignore the reality of the situation. And I think
Speaker 2: in that sense it's just so worth talking about because
Speaker 2: it's an exercise, and how how much emotion and just
Speaker 2: dumbness we put into evaluating stuff, and how tribal that
Speaker 2: stuff makes us, and that this is a great example
Speaker 2: of saying, here's something people are doing, here's the problems
Speaker 2: with it. Let's figure out how to work everything out
Speaker 2: together so that they can still save lives without the
Speaker 2: downsides that are clearly inherently posed in this.
Speaker 1: That's why this.
Speaker 2: Cajun Navy story is so I find important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And you know, as far as kind of
Speaker 1: seeing it both ways, that happened all the way up
Speaker 1: to the top of the ladder. Donald Trump became very
Speaker 1: sort of, I guess, briefly attached to John Bridges, a
Speaker 1: founder of the Cajun Navy, specifically Cajun Navy twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: which is its own group, invited him to the State
Speaker 1: of Union address in twenty eighteen, had them up there.
Speaker 1: When the Houston Astros visited the White House after they
Speaker 1: won the World Series, he called out the incredible Cajun Navy.
Speaker 1: And then, you know, on the other hand, was quoted
Speaker 1: as sort of saying like, hey, you know, stay in
Speaker 1: your boats, like these guys are out here trying to
Speaker 1: impress their wives and let the professionals do their work.
Speaker 1: And I think that just kind of illustrates how each
Speaker 1: side has a leg to stand on, you know, like, sure,
Speaker 1: you want to rescue people, but as we'll see, you know,
Speaker 1: the rules and regulations are there for a reason. But
Speaker 1: sometimes it's just dumb red tape. It's like it's hard
Speaker 1: to kind of come down for me on hard on
Speaker 1: one side or the other, because on one hand, you
Speaker 1: have a group that a lot of this comes from
Speaker 1: sort of an anti government sentiment, if not anti government,
Speaker 1: maybe be very distrustful of the response to natural disasters.
Speaker 1: But then when you see botched responses, you can see
Speaker 1: where they're coming from.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, as far as how these people's direct
Speaker 2: experience with FEMA was in Katrina, I think George W.
Speaker 2: Bush put it best when he said, fool me once, Sha,
Speaker 2: shame on you fool me, you can't get fooled again.
Speaker 2: And that's essentially what happened. FEMA fooled them once and
Speaker 2: they have never forgotten it.
Speaker 1: I thought that was Roger Daltrey.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that was pretty folding.
Speaker 1: Here's a quote from the vice president of United Cajun Navy,
Speaker 1: another group, Brian Trasher said, Katrina is what ultimately showed
Speaker 1: us in the world that really people, even in the
Speaker 1: richest country in the world, people cannot rely on their
Speaker 1: government to save them from the weather. If a flash
Speaker 1: flood hit your house and all of a sudden you're
Speaker 1: on a roof, you're not looking around for FEMA because
Speaker 1: they're nowhere around. And a lot of the this goes
Speaker 1: back to not just a distrust of the official systems,
Speaker 1: but sort of the shame of a nation, a nation
Speaker 1: like you got, the richest country in the world that's
Speaker 1: not able to save their citizens from a flood, or
Speaker 1: people that need to rely on the donations of their
Speaker 1: friends and neighbors to get over cancer without bankrupt erupting them,
Speaker 1: you know right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's definitely a supported insupportable viewpoint for sure.
Speaker 2: How about this, We'll take a break and we'll come
Speaker 2: back and we'll talk some more. How about the Cajun Navy.
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
Speaker 2: So, Chuck, I think you mentioned that twenty sixteen was
Speaker 2: a really pivotal time. Those floods in Baton Rouge. Yeah,
Speaker 2: where a bunch of different groups that present themselves as
Speaker 2: Cajun Navy groups formed and As some of these groups
Speaker 2: really started to emerge, in particular Cajun Navy Relief and
Speaker 2: United Cajun Navy, they started to organize. They started to
Speaker 2: form five oh one c threes and accept donations and
Speaker 2: show up more and more frequently at natural disasters. They
Speaker 2: started to get more pushback. It went from just some
Speaker 2: guys with boats to this is an actual organization showing
Speaker 2: up right, and what they're you know, they're organizing, they're helping,
Speaker 2: but they're still as far as we the people who
Speaker 2: are professionals at this stuff are concerned, just some guys
Speaker 2: with boats. And there was you know, I guess tension
Speaker 2: that started to arise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Amanda Faulkner was a spokesperson for the
Speaker 1: Coast Guard. I believe that said, you know, we have
Speaker 1: plenty of boats. We don't need more boats. The Coastguard
Speaker 1: has all the boats that we need. We know when
Speaker 1: it's safe to get them out in the water. At
Speaker 1: one point, do you become a liability? Is basically what
Speaker 1: people started asking. Or when are you in the way,
Speaker 1: when are you creating an unsafe situation? Or like you
Speaker 1: said with the people in the retirement home, like maybe
Speaker 1: you know if there were fifteen of them, maybe thirteen
Speaker 1: of them. That was great to get them out of there,
Speaker 1: but what if two of them had very adverse health
Speaker 1: outcomes because of that rescue?
Speaker 2: Right, And also you have not received medical training to
Speaker 2: evacuate people. The National Guard who are supposed to evacuate
Speaker 2: these people do get medical training. Like, there's just a
Speaker 2: lot of arguments that you can make against it, and
Speaker 2: some government agencies have started to make those arguments against it,
Speaker 2: and you can say, well, yeah, these guys are upset
Speaker 2: that their turf is being stepped on, and even worse,
Speaker 2: they're being made to look ineffective, right and caring and
Speaker 2: just basically concern with bureaucracy not saving people's lives, which
Speaker 2: is what the Cajun Navy is all about.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and especially if it's a situation where you're
Speaker 1: rescuing people in Louisiana and a group of Cajuns on
Speaker 1: an airboat show up, they may be just innately more
Speaker 1: trusting of them than when the FEMA truck pulls up,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, for sure, like their locals. And you know,
Speaker 1: conspiracy started springing up that like FEMA was actually I
Speaker 1: think this was in Heleen, Yeah, and Helene in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four started in Florida, went up through the East
Speaker 1: coast into the Appalachian Mountains, killed a lot of people,
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty people, and I think it was
Speaker 1: the deadliest hurricane since Katrina. And this is when conspiracy
Speaker 1: started to spring up in words getting around that FEMA
Speaker 1: is using the governments using this as a chance to
Speaker 1: seize your property so they can have and own your land.
Speaker 2: Right And just like how in twenty sixteen, social media
Speaker 2: helped a lot of the Cajun Navy organize and be
Speaker 2: more effective. This is a great example of how social
Speaker 2: media helped the whole system just break down all the
Speaker 2: more completely. Because if you have people who actually believe
Speaker 2: that these government agents who are now there, like I
Speaker 2: saw a FEMA truck femas here, that they're actually going
Speaker 2: to try to steal your land, maybe kill you, like
Speaker 2: and you're already under the stress of your houses underwater
Speaker 2: because of the natural disaster, that's going to create a
Speaker 2: climate that you don't really need. That's not the Cajun
Speaker 2: Navy's fault. You can't really lay that on them. The
Speaker 2: point is that in that kind of climate, they become
Speaker 2: all the more vital, But at the same time them
Speaker 2: pointing out the failures of the government just by them
Speaker 2: existing becomes all the more pronounced as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and boy, I hope what doesn't happen is that
Speaker 1: the Cajun Navy doesn't roll in here and disparage or
Speaker 1: more organized governmental efforts at the same time.
Speaker 2: You know, the ones that I saw, the ones that
Speaker 2: like you could feel comfortable donating or good about donating to, don't. Okay, No,
Speaker 2: that's actually a pretty good sign. I think if you
Speaker 2: actually are looking at a Cajun Navy to donate to,
Speaker 2: and they do that, then you should probably keep walking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you look at the you know, the
Speaker 1: sort of more official, organized ones, they they do try
Speaker 1: to work with FEMA. They're not combative. Sometimes they do
Speaker 1: work around FEMA if they think that it is holding
Speaker 1: up a legitimate rescue or aid coming to someone. But
Speaker 1: Todd Terrell said, you know, we try to work with
Speaker 1: the government as best we can, but the government can't
Speaker 1: do what we do. FEMA's not designed to do what
Speaker 1: the Cajun Navy does. And that's you know, that's a fact.
Speaker 1: It's it's a quicker moving, quicker operating. You know, they
Speaker 1: make the point that somebody with a laptop or a
Speaker 1: or a satellite phone and the Cajun Navy can get
Speaker 1: supplies there a lot quicker than going the official route.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, like you you could say, hey, we
Speaker 2: have a whole bunch of bottled water we want you
Speaker 2: to take with you when you take your boat to
Speaker 2: go rescue people, and that aid that you sent to
Speaker 2: those people in need could get them in a few
Speaker 2: hours rather than having to go to a warehouse, be
Speaker 2: put on a truck and then the truck has to
Speaker 2: deliver supplies like it's it as agile as they say
Speaker 2: in like the project management world. And that's a huge bonus,
Speaker 2: I mean, in addition to the fact that these these
Speaker 2: people are risking their lives to save other people for
Speaker 2: no compensation whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's an article in GQ by Miriam Markowitz who
Speaker 1: kind of affirmed what we were saying about. You know,
Speaker 1: it just shows like people love to have faith in
Speaker 1: like regular people, and they love the hero stories. But
Speaker 1: points out I think the quote is for our efforts
Speaker 1: to be effective, they need to be large scale. Systemic
Speaker 1: heroism can't be the exception in a civilized society. And
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be financed by micro donations through GoFundMe campaigns.
Speaker 1: We pay taxes for firefighters and police because we can't
Speaker 1: bank on the whims of our neighbors to save us.
Speaker 1: And it's these institutions that have cracks that need to
Speaker 1: be shored up along with some local volunteer efforts.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, yeah, but those institutions that we
Speaker 2: pay for through our taxes, like we're owed them to
Speaker 2: be effective in response. Yeah, But at the same time,
Speaker 2: when those things work correctly, that is something that can
Speaker 2: give the entire nation a sense of pride, right, And
Speaker 2: just the same way that stories about everyday people joining
Speaker 2: the Cajun Navy saving other everyday people saving their lives. Literally,
Speaker 2: they give you like a reaffirming faith in humanity. If
Speaker 2: FEMA had showed up and saved everyone in Katrina, that
Speaker 2: would have given everybody a reaffirmed faith in like the
Speaker 2: collective good of say, like an organized government, right, right,
Speaker 2: or maybe even like a sense of patriotism. That's not
Speaker 2: what's been happening, right, So that's where the breakdown is.
Speaker 2: I think that Markowitz is saying is that our government's failing,
Speaker 2: and then the presence of the Cajun Navy is just
Speaker 2: pointing this out even worse and then worse than that
Speaker 2: if we come to rely on essentially crowdsourced or vigilante
Speaker 2: forms of like supportive efforts, whether it be say a
Speaker 2: fire department, you know that just basically is a bunch
Speaker 2: of guys who who come out on Saturday nights, but
Speaker 2: not on Tuesday night if your house is on fire,
Speaker 2: to say, like the Cajun Navy, who may or may
Speaker 2: not make it out to the natural disaster in your
Speaker 2: neck of the woods, Like, you just can't. You can't
Speaker 2: rely on people. They're not These people have jobs, they
Speaker 2: have families, they have stuff they have to do. They're
Speaker 2: not getting paid for this, so you inherently can't rely
Speaker 2: on them. Even though they are reliable people, you can't
Speaker 2: rely on them in every situation. That's why we have
Speaker 2: these institutions. That's why these institutions have to be, like
Speaker 2: you said, said, shored up and step up so that
Speaker 2: we don't need the Cajun Navy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean. One of the criticisms or potential criticisms,
Speaker 1: is that it might discourage evacuation if the storm is
Speaker 1: impending and people knew from the news or social media
Speaker 1: that like, hey man, you're on your roof, the Cajun
Speaker 1: Navy will be there, toot sweet and get you out
Speaker 1: of there with a bottle of water in their hand.
Speaker 1: A lot of people might like not follow evacuation orders
Speaker 1: because they're relying on something that may happen, but it
Speaker 1: may not. But you could also say the same for
Speaker 1: the government institutions.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, apparently you really, as a government spokesperson
Speaker 2: shouldn't say like it's going to be worse than this
Speaker 2: last storm or it's as bad as say this last hurricane,
Speaker 2: because people will be like, oh, I didn't evacuate, I
Speaker 2: made it to fine, you know, so yeah, you can
Speaker 2: definitely misstep. That's I think getting people to evacuate it's
Speaker 2: got to be one of the harder things you could
Speaker 2: possibly do.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Another criticism is that, you know, when you've
Speaker 1: got people in there, all there's more people on the scene,
Speaker 1: it could create confusion and maybe even hazardous situations, and
Speaker 1: perhaps even a situation where you're needing to then rescue
Speaker 1: people from the Cajun Navy who have run ashore or
Speaker 1: whatever happened that was bad for their efforts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a rumor that's not true that some Cajun
Speaker 2: Navy people showed up to help after her during even
Speaker 2: Hurricane Michael and got stranded in a hotel and had
Speaker 2: to be rescued, and they did have to write out
Speaker 2: some of the storm in the hotel, but they didn't
Speaker 2: need to be rescued, and they left from the hotel
Speaker 2: to go help people. So it seems I couldn't find
Speaker 2: any instance where somebody who was in the Cajun Navy
Speaker 2: needed to be rescued themselves. And that seems like the
Speaker 2: kind of thing that would have made news everywhere if
Speaker 2: that had happened. So it seems to be like a
Speaker 2: theoretical issue, right that hasn't happened, but could.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also like, hey, we rescued ten thousand
Speaker 1: people in Katrina, but this group of six needed some
Speaker 1: help themselves. It's sort of a flimsy argument, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not like every every part of the Cajun Navy
Speaker 1: all of a sudden all needs rescue as well. You know,
Speaker 1: like maybe that kind of thing could happen, but on
Speaker 1: a pretty small scale.
Speaker 2: Agreed. Another one is that it just straight up encourages
Speaker 2: vigilanteism or vigilanism. Yeah, and you know, on the one hand,
Speaker 2: if the government institutions were there, the Cajun Navy wouldn't
Speaker 2: necessarily be there because they wouldn't be needed. So there's
Speaker 2: you know, there's a place for this. But on the
Speaker 2: other hand, even if it's morally correct in an instance,
Speaker 2: you don't you do not want to encourage vigilanism in
Speaker 2: any form whatsoever, because that is a major facet of
Speaker 2: mob rule, and you don't want mob rule. So even
Speaker 2: though this is this makes a lot of sense, you
Speaker 2: can make a really good argument that if you look
Speaker 2: far enough down the road, it's not because how long
Speaker 2: would it be potentially and theoretically before say a Cajun
Speaker 2: Navy guy takes it on himself to start looking for
Speaker 2: looters and he starts patrolling things with looters and he
Speaker 2: starts shooting at looters. Yeah, this is not this guy's
Speaker 2: place to shoot at looters, and yet he's taking it
Speaker 2: upon himself. Like, again, this hasn't happened. It's theoretical. But
Speaker 2: the point of is that encouraging any form of vigilantism
Speaker 2: can have these knock on effects. That says, well, if
Speaker 2: you're willing to let people do this. This makes sense too,
Speaker 2: so let's start doing this as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's sort of I could see that
Speaker 1: happening because we've seen it happen with the strapped neighborhood
Speaker 1: watch situation. Sure, and it's not hard to draw a
Speaker 1: line there, So yeah, I see where you're coming from.
Speaker 1: My big thing is like to think about the legal liabilities.
Speaker 1: I don't know how it works. When you're an official
Speaker 1: nonprofit with multimillion dollar budgets, you're way more official. But
Speaker 1: what if you're just one of these other sort of
Speaker 1: startup Cajun navies and something happened where you cause the
Speaker 1: loss of life or you cause something terrible to happen.
Speaker 1: Like the liability, the legal liability, and the just the
Speaker 1: sort of ethical and moral liabilities, they're pretty tremendous.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think people who are like say working for
Speaker 2: a state agency or a government agency or like the
Speaker 2: National Guard, they are immunized from civil lawsuits for like
Speaker 2: they if somebody gets injured while they're rescuing them, you
Speaker 2: can't sue that person. That's not true for the Cajun Navy.
Speaker 2: And that's actually one argument for solving a lot of
Speaker 2: these problems is enticing them to kind of become more
Speaker 2: part of the larger search and rescue community that responds
Speaker 2: to natural disasters, to coordinate more with them. Still, yeah,
Speaker 2: the occasion Navy, but come here and get training, Come
Speaker 2: here and figure out how you can coordinate with us
Speaker 2: for all of us to be the most effective, and
Speaker 2: in return, will extend this legal immunity to you when
Speaker 2: you're in these natural disaster areas.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But then the headline as government ruins Cajun Navy.
Speaker 2: Right, I think that's why there's some resistance to it.
Speaker 2: But the I believe both the Cajun Navy Relief and
Speaker 2: the United Cajun Navy both require their members to undergo training. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like official training, I believe, and they do, like you said,
Speaker 2: tend to coordinate with responders more than just like go
Speaker 2: out and say the hell with you, I'm going you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm sure as they I mean, this was
Speaker 1: not that long ago that all this started up. I'm
Speaker 1: sure as it grows, if it's allowed to grow, it
Speaker 1: will become more rigorous in the training. And you know,
Speaker 1: because they're ought to do good they want to do
Speaker 1: good things, and they want to solve problems on the ground,
Speaker 1: so they're not like, yeah, we don't need no training,
Speaker 1: you know, like, I'm sure, given time and you know,
Speaker 1: the donation of funds coming in, they're trying to do
Speaker 1: just that, I imagine.
Speaker 2: Right. So there are again I think you said most
Speaker 2: of them are for profit, there's some that are nonprofit.
Speaker 2: And two rise to the topic again, United Cajun Navy
Speaker 2: and Cajun Navy Relief. On Charity Navigator they have eighty
Speaker 2: five and an eighty seven rating, respectively, which is pretty good.
Speaker 2: Charity Navigator says, you can give You can donate to
Speaker 2: this these groups with confidence, right that they're going to
Speaker 2: use your money Wisely, I didn't see on Cajun Navy Relief,
Speaker 2: but I'm guessing it's the same United Cajun Navy. They're officers.
Speaker 2: The people who run the show get zero dollars compensation. Wow,
Speaker 2: So you don't like there's there are groups of these
Speaker 2: people who are genuinely dedicated to this, who are doing
Speaker 2: it right, then there are others who are like getting
Speaker 2: arrested for fraud. So do your homework before you make
Speaker 2: a donation. But if you feel moved to donate, go donate.
Speaker 2: But just do a little bit of research first. Don't
Speaker 2: listen to somebody on the internet who says, you know,
Speaker 2: stay away from this group because this group's better. Go
Speaker 2: do your own research and charity Navigator is usually a
Speaker 2: pretty good place to start. Yeah, totally, you got anything else?
Speaker 1: I got nothing else. This is a rare shortsh long
Speaker 1: or exercise short.
Speaker 2: Nice, We'll put Chuck. Yeah, since Chuck said what he
Speaker 2: just said, I think it's time for listener ma'am.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna for we go listener mail this week,
Speaker 1: just because we wanted to get a quick moment. We
Speaker 1: just got back from our first tour in a year
Speaker 1: and a half, back out on the road doing shows
Speaker 1: in Denver and Seattle, Washington, and San Francisco, California, and
Speaker 1: just wanted to thank everybody at the Paramount Theater in Denver,
Speaker 1: the Paramount in Seattle, and the Sydney Goldstein and SF
Speaker 1: sketch Fest, who always does such a great job. I
Speaker 1: feel like we don't often thank the people there that
Speaker 1: put these shows on, and the crews were all great.
Speaker 1: The people that came out to see us, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. It's hard to part with the dollar these days,
Speaker 1: I know, times are tight, so we really really really
Speaker 1: means a lot that you would spend some of your
Speaker 1: money to come out and hear us talk for a
Speaker 1: couple of hours.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and your time, and yeah, just leaving your house
Speaker 2: as ordeal these days anyway. So yeah, we genuinely appreciate
Speaker 2: everybody who came out and like that was really a
Speaker 2: great way to get back on the road after eighteen months.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a great welcome back, So thank
Speaker 2: you guys.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of fun. The show is really fun
Speaker 1: and great. And we say this also as a reminder
Speaker 1: that we'll be doing shows in Madison, Wisconsin, Chicago, and Akron,
Speaker 1: Ohio before hitting the road for Canada this summer, and
Speaker 1: there's still plenty of great seats. And like I said,
Speaker 1: it's a fun show. There's a lot of bad stuff
Speaker 1: in the news going on, and it's nice to go
Speaker 1: sit around for a couple of hours with a bunch
Speaker 1: of curious, smart, compassionate people, which is the stuff you
Speaker 1: should know, Army.
Speaker 2: That's right, well, put chuck, Yeah, if you want to
Speaker 2: get tickets or whatever, I think we basically have like
Speaker 2: a clearinghouse on stuffishould know dot com and you just
Speaker 2: click on the on tour tab and it will take
Speaker 2: you to Heaven Yay. If you want to get in
Speaker 2: touch of this in the meantime, you can send us
Speaker 2: an email. We always love it when you send us
Speaker 2: an email. Send it off to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio
Speaker 2: dot com.
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
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