Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death Presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy.
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome to this week's External Exam episode on
Speaker 1: Mother nos Death. We've been talking about plastic surgery and
Speaker 1: in the news over the past few months since we
Speaker 1: started the podcast, and I thought it would be great
Speaker 1: today if we interviewed an expert in the field. This
Speaker 1: is doctor Kelly Colleen. Hi, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Doctor Colleen is a double board certified plastic surgeon in
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills and she's also appeared in multiple news stories, podcasts,
Speaker 1: and TV shows, including her own, which is Doctor nine
Speaker 1: O two one. Oh. So that is super cool and
Speaker 1: we'll get into asking you about that experience later, but
Speaker 1: before we die, I've been too all that. I want
Speaker 1: to first start out asking you just about how you
Speaker 1: got where you are today. So did you always know
Speaker 1: that you wanted to be a doctor?
Speaker 2: So I actually didn't. My parents are both surgeons, and.
Speaker 1: I think for that reason, I wanted to be.
Speaker 2: Everything other than a doctor. And one summer when I
Speaker 2: was in college, I was home for the weekend. And
Speaker 2: you are not allowed to do this now, this is
Speaker 2: very many decades ago. My dad was like, because I was,
Speaker 2: you know, bored at the house in the house board,
Speaker 2: and he said, hey, do you want to come watch
Speaker 2: a surgery? I'm doing aneurism or care. And so I
Speaker 2: went to the hospital and I got to be an
Speaker 2: observer in the operating room. I was just hooked. I mean,
Speaker 2: nothing I have ever seen was as cool as that,
Speaker 2: and I just.
Speaker 1: Knew I needed to be a surgeon. That's so cool.
Speaker 1: Did you think, oh, my dad's so cool, Like you
Speaker 1: never really realized what he did until that day. I did.
Speaker 2: And I think you hear all the words at home,
Speaker 2: and you know, you just never think your parents are
Speaker 2: cool when you're a teenager.
Speaker 1: Of course, but yeah, and it was. It was awesome.
Speaker 2: And my my boyfriend at the time came as well
Speaker 2: and he passed out.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what are we why?
Speaker 2: I'm like, you're wame. But yeah, it was just a
Speaker 2: cool experience and it kind of set me in the path.
Speaker 1: I'm in now. That's that's so great. That's I love
Speaker 1: hearing people's stories. It was a similar thing with me
Speaker 1: because when I started working in the hospital and everything,
Speaker 1: we were allowed just anybody was allowed to go view
Speaker 1: all top season Unfortunately, it's not like that anymore because
Speaker 1: that's how a lot of people get there. They're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I want to do this for a living, and that's
Speaker 1: where they get their passion and drive from. And it's
Speaker 1: just different than watching it on a video or just
Speaker 1: hearing about it for sure. So, so you started medical school,
Speaker 1: and so when you started medical school, you knew you
Speaker 1: were going for surgery. That was the plan. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love surgery. I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't really have strong ideas.
Speaker 1: I knew I.
Speaker 2: Always liked plastics, but I'm I'm one of those students
Speaker 2: that I love every rotation I'm on, and so I
Speaker 2: had a little bit of a hard time figuring out
Speaker 2: what I wanted to do because every field of surgery
Speaker 2: was so amazing. But there's definitely a surgical personality, like
Speaker 2: looking back on my friend group, like you know early on,
Speaker 2: like who's destined for medicine and medicine subspecialties.
Speaker 1: And who's destined for surgery. So once you were through
Speaker 1: with medical school, then you did a residency in surgery,
Speaker 1: and then when you started that residency and surgery were
Speaker 1: was that just you didn't really have it pinpointed yet,
Speaker 1: Like when was the time that you said, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: definitely going into cosmetic surgery.
Speaker 2: So I've always had an interest in plastic surgery. And
Speaker 2: I think you have to decide by about your fourth
Speaker 2: year because that's when fellowship.
Speaker 1: Applications go in.
Speaker 2: So in I did a full general surgery residency first,
Speaker 2: so that's why i'm double board certified. It's both of
Speaker 2: my boards or are recognized boards, so general surgery boards,
Speaker 2: the American Border Surgery. And then I did my fellowship,
Speaker 2: so I had to decide by fourth year. And the
Speaker 2: specialty that I had a really hard time, like going
Speaker 2: back and forth was vascular versus plastic surgery. I just
Speaker 2: loved vascular surgery too, but I think for my personality,
Speaker 2: plastic surgery made more sense.
Speaker 1: That's cool, So I think in an important point to
Speaker 1: say is that if you decided right now that you
Speaker 1: didn't want to be a plastic surgeon anymore, you could
Speaker 1: go do other surgeries because you're a board certified surgeon first, correct, right,
Speaker 1: So I could like go and get privileges to do
Speaker 1: lap Coli'S her ny repairs and take call.
Speaker 2: At a at a hospital. I loved my general surgery training.
Speaker 2: A lot of plastic surgeons. Most plastic surgeons now don't
Speaker 2: train in the way that I did. They have now
Speaker 2: transitioned most plastic surgery training to a shortened program where
Speaker 2: you do less general surgery and those years are more
Speaker 2: focused in things applicable to playtics, and so it's kind
Speaker 2: of an accelerated track through it. Most people don't realize this,
Speaker 2: and I didn't realize this until I started working in
Speaker 2: the hospital. Just how long it takes to become what
Speaker 2: you consider a doctor, somebody that is working and making
Speaker 2: good money. And they don't realize that when you're in
Speaker 2: your residency and your fellowship you really don't.
Speaker 1: You don't make a ton of money. It's just kind
Speaker 1: of enough to get by. But how old were you
Speaker 1: when the day you started college versus the day you
Speaker 1: were able to be a real doctor. So I was
Speaker 1: a little young starting college.
Speaker 2: I was seventeen, and I've finished all of my training
Speaker 2: and was set free to be in attending when I
Speaker 2: was thirty three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really amazing. A lot of people just don't
Speaker 1: think of how many years of your life that you
Speaker 1: have to dedicate to that. It's a lot. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's really cool. So we already went over the double
Speaker 1: board certified thing, which is cool, I think. I I
Speaker 1: always like to give that advice to no matter what
Speaker 1: level of education you're at, that you could if you
Speaker 1: actually start working and hate what you're doing, that you
Speaker 1: have kind of a fallback. So I think that that's
Speaker 1: cool that you could do the two separate things. And
Speaker 1: this way, if you just started doing cosmetic surgeries and
Speaker 1: you were like, this isn't for me, then you have
Speaker 1: a backup, and that's good at any education level. A
Speaker 1: few weeks ago on the news, we talked about Black China.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with her, probably you are,
Speaker 1: and we discussed that she was getting all of these
Speaker 1: cosmetic procedures, not only to dissolve fillers in her face,
Speaker 1: which by the way, she in my opinion, she looks
Speaker 1: a thousand times more beautiful now just being a lot
Speaker 1: less of that stuff, but she also discussed that she
Speaker 1: was having complications from her breast implants. And I think
Speaker 1: we hear a lot about people getting breast implants. It's
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the number one
Speaker 1: cosmetic procedure in this country, at least one of the top.
Speaker 2: Yeah, LiPo such and breast augmentation. Uh was it breast reductions?
Speaker 1: Yeah? All right, So I want to get into that
Speaker 1: because I think we hear so much about all of
Speaker 1: I mean, all of these people we see that are
Speaker 1: celebrities and everything. It seems like so many of them
Speaker 1: have breast implants, but we don't hear too much about
Speaker 1: the complications that could come with breast implants. And for her,
Speaker 1: I believe she had like capsular contraction. Can you explain
Speaker 1: to us a little bit what that is? Absolutely so,
Speaker 1: and I totally agree with you.
Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest things that we have
Speaker 2: screwed up as a field in plastic surgery is breast
Speaker 2: implants and educating patients that are getting them.
Speaker 1: So, breast implants are not a lifetime device. They are.
Speaker 2: We have known this for a very long time, but
Speaker 2: unfortunately patients are still to this day not commonly told that.
Speaker 2: And in addition to having a device that requires maintenance,
Speaker 2: it also requires imaging for watching it and if you
Speaker 2: have silicone implants, and we just have not been good
Speaker 2: traditionally at telling women this. So one of the complications
Speaker 2: that you can get from your breast implants is something
Speaker 2: called capsular contracture.
Speaker 1: And so anytime you put a foreign.
Speaker 2: Body in your body, your body recognizes that it's not you,
Speaker 2: and it walled off with a scar tissue sack. And
Speaker 2: we call that the capsule. And that's the same for
Speaker 2: and you've seen as in autopsies, for peacemakers and hip replacements,
Speaker 2: any type of foreign body, you get a capsule. Now,
Speaker 2: if the capsule becomes inflamed and sickened, it has the
Speaker 2: ability to compress the breast implant in a way it
Speaker 2: can't compress other like fake things in your body because
Speaker 2: it's soft. And so what ends up happening is your
Speaker 2: capsule can make your breast implant firm. That's the first stage.
Speaker 2: It can make it look weird, that's the next stage,
Speaker 2: and then it could also make it hurt, and that's
Speaker 2: the final stage of capsular contracture.
Speaker 1: Now, this used to.
Speaker 2: Be much more common. You know, twenty years ago the
Speaker 2: rates were fourteen and some of the fourteen percent of
Speaker 2: patients in some of the older studies, newer studies, because
Speaker 2: we know how to prevent it in a lot of patients,
Speaker 2: it's about one percent in cosmetic patients, which is a
Speaker 2: huge improvement for women and so basically, when you have
Speaker 2: this tight scar tissue, like I said, not only does
Speaker 2: it look weird and seals yucky, it can really hurt you.
Speaker 2: And the other unfortunate thing about cancer contracture is we
Speaker 2: have now identified an exceedingly rare cancer, but it's still
Speaker 2: a cancer that can come from long standing contractures, and
Speaker 2: it's called a breast and planet associated swaymouth cell. And
Speaker 2: we've known for years that sway miss cells come from
Speaker 2: areas of chronic inflammation like stolach ulcerers in burn wounds,
Speaker 2: and now we know chronic inflammation around breast implants can
Speaker 2: cause cancer too. So it's actually a really significant problem
Speaker 2: that what women need to.
Speaker 1: Take care of. Yeah, I think that's interesting. And I
Speaker 1: do remember, obviously, like I have this life before I
Speaker 1: ever worked in pathology, and then working in pathology, so
Speaker 1: I just have totally different opinions on everything. And I
Speaker 1: remember some of my friends saying they're going to get
Speaker 1: breast implants and they're in their early twenties, and I
Speaker 1: would think, like, you know, you're going to have to
Speaker 1: get them replaced a couple more times in your life
Speaker 1: when you're a sixty year old grandmam or you're gonna
Speaker 1: feel like getting your breast implants replaced. And I've seen
Speaker 1: that with other things like IUDs and stuff like getting
Speaker 1: them from eighty year old women that just never got
Speaker 1: the last one taken out, that you just don't feel
Speaker 1: like dealing with it anymore when you get older, you know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, just so many complications seen with any foreign
Speaker 1: bodies is just a thing. I've even gotten, like the
Speaker 1: old school silicone implants that have leaked in a capsule
Speaker 1: that are just sticky glue everywhere, and it's just terrible.
Speaker 1: And it's good to hear that the technology is improving.
Speaker 1: I do see on your website you have a lot
Speaker 1: of before and afters of implant removals. And are these
Speaker 1: people getting them removed and not getting them replaced or
Speaker 1: is it a swap out. It's a combination.
Speaker 2: And in general, most patients these days that I see
Speaker 2: for implants, they want their implants out. I think it's
Speaker 2: a combination of reasons. You know, the esthetic is very
Speaker 2: different today than it was twenty thirty years ago, and
Speaker 2: so women when they were in their twenties got very large,
Speaker 2: disproportionate breast implants and that doesn't age well with you
Speaker 2: in general. When you're yeah, you can wear really tight
Speaker 2: things that show your figure out and you know, enjoy
Speaker 2: those large breast implants. But women when they're older don't
Speaker 2: love to do that usually, and so for things to
Speaker 2: fit the top, it doesn't fit the bottom, and it
Speaker 2: makes you appear larger than you are, and it's also uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: So a lot of women have kind of aged out
Speaker 2: of their breasted liss. There's also a population of patients
Speaker 2: who just didn't realize there was maintenance, and they're like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to deal with this, just get them
Speaker 2: out of me, and I want to be done with this.
Speaker 1: I just want my body and I don't want to
Speaker 1: have to watch anything.
Speaker 2: And then there's also patients that are that are a
Speaker 2: smaller percentage of my implant removals that just they think
Speaker 2: they're implants are causing health concerns and so for that
Speaker 2: reason they want them removed. All right, So let's touch
Speaker 2: on that a little bit more. I think you're referring
Speaker 2: to breast implant illness. It's a thing that's been really
Speaker 2: popular over the past.
Speaker 1: Ten fifteen years. I guess you would say, what is
Speaker 1: that has that been scientifically proven to be a real thing.
Speaker 1: Yet is that something that you believe is a thing.
Speaker 1: So I absolutely believe it's a thing. We don't have
Speaker 1: a lot of good data explaining it, if that's what
Speaker 1: she means. So basically, you know, the kind.
Speaker 2: Of the history of this problem is that in you know,
Speaker 2: the nineties, women were saying, Hey, I think I'm getting
Speaker 2: sick for my implants, and the lawsuit started flying and
Speaker 2: the FDA shut the whole thing down, pulled them from
Speaker 2: the market, and there was, you know, more than a
Speaker 2: decade of additional testing on them. But what we what
Speaker 2: we know is that some women just don't feel well
Speaker 2: and get sick and get symptoms with breast implants. There
Speaker 2: has now been over one hundred and fifty symptoms associated
Speaker 2: with breast implants, and there's just no disease, no single
Speaker 2: disease that has that variety of symptoms, and so we
Speaker 2: just don't understand what's going on. And so for years,
Speaker 2: plastic surgeons, mostly men, we're telling patients you're crazy, get
Speaker 2: a boyfriend, you know, like stupid things like that, and
Speaker 2: so women became very distrustful of the plastic surgery community,
Speaker 2: and this, unfortunately allowed people to pray them, and so
Speaker 2: there became this big community of women with their you know,
Speaker 2: special experts with no scientific data to support what they're doing,
Speaker 2: recommending a variety of surgeries like removing the implant with
Speaker 2: the capsule tissue in one piece and things of that nature.
Speaker 2: And so in recent years as a community, and I
Speaker 2: think this is a very seamal driven think because a
Speaker 2: lot of the head rees are the big researchers on
Speaker 2: these studies or women, We said, hey, we need to
Speaker 2: figure this out.
Speaker 1: This is a real thing.
Speaker 2: Women aren't crazy, they're not stupid, and we can't let
Speaker 2: these people pray on them, doing non evidence based things
Speaker 2: to them.
Speaker 1: So there's been some studies.
Speaker 2: Now and what we know we don't know what it is,
Speaker 2: but what we know is that women with breast implants
Speaker 2: don't have higher heavy metal concentrations in their tissue. We've
Speaker 2: tested them now in studies against women who have never
Speaker 2: had implants. It doesn't appear to be autoimmune. We've looked
Speaker 2: at autoimmune markers in these patient populations. We now know
Speaker 2: that removing implants and women who believe their implants are
Speaker 2: making them ill, about two thirds get better. So we
Speaker 2: know that implant removal is the right thing to do
Speaker 2: in this population. We also know that removing the capsule
Speaker 2: tissue does not increase their chance of getting better, and
Speaker 2: this has been shown in several studies in several countries
Speaker 2: now in good studies with control groups, you know, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So we're learning. We don't know enough, and so the
Speaker 2: research is ongoing. We also know it's not silicone because
Speaker 2: women with saline implants that don't have silicones found in
Speaker 2: their capsules have equals sometimes higher rates of breast implant
Speaker 2: illness symptoms. We don't know enough, and so we're continuing
Speaker 2: to study this entity. I think, you know, I take
Speaker 2: care of.
Speaker 1: My practice is primarily.
Speaker 2: Breast you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds
Speaker 2: of women a year, and it is not something that
Speaker 2: is common. And it's in those groups they believe it
Speaker 2: is because it is a self selected group and so
Speaker 2: those patients find each other. But in the general population,
Speaker 2: a vast majority of women in THISS has shown in
Speaker 2: studies as well, are happy with their breast inness. So
Speaker 2: I think it's like any risks when you have a device,
Speaker 2: you need to understand that this is a possibility, and
Speaker 2: you need to choose a surgeon who will believe you,
Speaker 2: trust you, and help you through it if you do
Speaker 2: develop problems.
Speaker 1: This is really interesting to me because when you're doing
Speaker 1: the studies, is it because some of the symptoms I
Speaker 1: feel overlapped with something like perimenopause and stuff like I'm
Speaker 1: like at that age now that I'm going through, like
Speaker 1: just feel like a lot of things are changing with
Speaker 1: my body, and if I had implants, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that has to be it. It's that's
Speaker 1: what's causing me to have this problem. So you are
Speaker 1: testing groups of people that don't have implants versus implants
Speaker 1: and seeing that there is a correlation with the implant
Speaker 1: versus just like changes of life as you get older.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of overlap with the symptoms of
Speaker 2: women with symptoms from their breast implants, where the new
Speaker 2: terminology is SSBI systemic symptoms from breast implants, And that
Speaker 2: makes all of the studies and the diagnosis even more confusing,
Speaker 2: and so patients will often come to us. There's been
Speaker 2: some studies that have shown when influencers are prominent, people
Speaker 2: with big followings discussed that they have symptoms from their
Speaker 2: breast implants and remove them. That requests for implant removals
Speaker 2: go up significantly in plastic surgery offices. So there's a
Speaker 2: lot of awareness about this now online where there wasn't before.
Speaker 2: And so it's really important as a patient and doctors
Speaker 2: taking care of patients that you don't jump to the
Speaker 2: conclusion like you said, that it's the breast implants, because
Speaker 2: there's a lot of different medical problems, some of which
Speaker 2: are serious and required treatment that can cause similar symptoms,
Speaker 2: and so these patients deserve the same cautious, evidence based
Speaker 2: care that we give every patient that comes into our office.
Speaker 1: So when you take a breast implant out, is it
Speaker 1: kind of like a deflated balloon almost, that you have
Speaker 1: to do a most reconstructive surgery because the skin is
Speaker 1: stretched out where for so many years when they had
Speaker 1: an implant.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And it's so implants do a very characteristic thing,
Speaker 2: So they are the most projected in the middle and
Speaker 2: then they kind of fall off to the sides, and
Speaker 2: so they stretch the skin and tissue and thin it
Speaker 2: the most in the middle of your breast, right under
Speaker 2: your nipple, and then less and less. And so when
Speaker 2: you take your inplant out, your breast is going to
Speaker 2: be wider than it started. There's kind of a mountain
Speaker 2: range of breast tissue and then often a flat or
Speaker 2: even sulken area in the middle, and so that does
Speaker 2: require some reconstruction, and it really just depends on the
Speaker 2: individual patient. The skin, believe it or not, just think
Speaker 2: of pregnancy will retract if you just give it time,
Speaker 2: and so it's often a good idea to not do
Speaker 2: too much at the time of the removal and just
Speaker 2: see what your body's gonna do, because it can save
Speaker 2: yourself having a lift later.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's really interesting. One thing that I want to
Speaker 1: note that you just mentioned was about male doctors kind
Speaker 1: of telling women that they were crazy, which is a
Speaker 1: common theme that we hear about all the time on
Speaker 1: my Instagram and in the gross room and on this podcast.
Speaker 1: But I know from your website that you said that
Speaker 1: only fifteen percent of cosmetic surgeons are actually female, which
Speaker 1: I think is kind of is kind of ironic considering
Speaker 1: most mostly women get cosmetic procedures. Correct, there's more women
Speaker 1: that get them than male. Yeah, so why do you
Speaker 1: think that.
Speaker 2: Is Surgery is still to this day a very male
Speaker 2: dominated field, and I think things are changing. You know,
Speaker 2: our medical school classes across the country are over fifty
Speaker 2: percent women. Now, surgical residencies the numbers women are better represented,
Speaker 2: but we are still not there yet. And so as
Speaker 2: the years go on, we are going to get closer
Speaker 2: and closer to things being equal, but as of right.
Speaker 1: Now, it is not.
Speaker 2: And the studies with women in surgery in general show
Speaker 2: that our outcomes are superior. And men get very upset
Speaker 2: about this. I tell them don't, because it's not. Women
Speaker 2: are inherently better at being a surgeon. We have qualities
Speaker 2: that make our patients do better, and instead of looking
Speaker 2: at it like some kind of slap in the face,
Speaker 2: look at it as a learning opportunity. You know, one
Speaker 2: of the big series is that women who go through
Speaker 2: you know, medicine have the quality of good communication because
Speaker 2: women have great communication skills. So that means that we're
Speaker 2: educating our patients about what to expect complications, we are
Speaker 2: educating them how to behave when they leave the hospital,
Speaker 2: and that leads to less complications, less returns to the hospital,
Speaker 2: and those kind of improvements in their outcomes. So I
Speaker 2: think it's similar when I talk to my male colleagues
Speaker 2: about how when you look at the data for physicians
Speaker 2: of color versus white physicians and caring for patients of color,
Speaker 2: they have superior outcomes. And I don't lose my marbles
Speaker 2: and go, no, you don't.
Speaker 1: I immediately become.
Speaker 2: Curious and I want to know why, why are you
Speaker 2: getting better outcomes with patients who are the same culture, background,
Speaker 2: ethnic groups you? And that is something that I think
Speaker 2: we all can work from each other. And that's why
Speaker 2: diversity in medicine is so important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I always think
Speaker 1: about that with just men in general, Like you just
Speaker 1: will never understand what it's like to feel shitty for
Speaker 1: a week of the month because you have your period,
Speaker 1: Like your body feels good all the time. Ours doesn't,
Speaker 1: And there's all this it's not even just like physical
Speaker 1: pain that you feel when you're going through your monthly cycle,
Speaker 1: but also all of the change in hormones and the
Speaker 1: emotions and everything, and it's almost like you just can't
Speaker 1: talk to somebody sometimes it does have a similar life
Speaker 1: experience as you. You you can, but you can't sometimes.
Speaker 1: I feel like, so that's really important. That's why I
Speaker 1: always prefer having I would prefer having like a female.
Speaker 1: They when you call to make your gynocologists appointment, they
Speaker 1: say do you want to mail or female doctor? And
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like, well they might understand more what
Speaker 1: I'm going through that that's just something that I've noticed. Hey, guys,
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Speaker 1: let's get into some juicy stuff. Have you so obviously
Speaker 1: you've seen such crazy surgeries people have had, and oftentimes
Speaker 1: I think, like, what surgeon would even do this surgery
Speaker 1: on a person? It seems almost unethical to me. Have
Speaker 1: you ever had people come in and ask for something
Speaker 1: so outrageous and you've had to tell them though?
Speaker 2: And that actually happens on a regular basis, And so
Speaker 2: I think with social media and the internet being what
Speaker 2: it is. People have access to a lot of information,
Speaker 2: and patients often have this idea that surgery can make
Speaker 2: you look any way you want. So they come in
Speaker 2: in the it's almost like a drive through where they're
Speaker 2: at a fast food restaurant. They're like, I want this, this, this, this, this,
Speaker 2: and they have a bunch of of sings that they want.
Speaker 2: And so my job is not only just to be
Speaker 2: a practicing surgeon who does the surgery. I need to
Speaker 2: educate them and help them and we make a decision
Speaker 2: together about what the best course of action is. So yes,
Speaker 2: I say no all the time, the unfortunate reality of life.
Speaker 2: And I tell patients this when they come into my
Speaker 2: office and I can see in their eyes they're going
Speaker 2: to go somewhere else. If you wave a credit card around,
Speaker 2: someone will take it. And so what you want in
Speaker 2: a surgeon is not someone who just will take your
Speaker 2: credit card and give you anything you ask for, because
Speaker 2: that is no one should ever want that. You don't
Speaker 2: want a yes n'am. You want someone who will be
Speaker 2: honest with you and help you through decisions instead of
Speaker 2: number one making them for you or number two allowing
Speaker 2: you to make decisions with no input especially when they're
Speaker 2: not necessarily a great idea.
Speaker 1: So you see people all the time that have normal concerns,
Speaker 1: like their breasts are sagging or something after childbirth, and
Speaker 1: that's and then I feel like there's this other line
Speaker 1: of people that have something called body dysmorphia when they
Speaker 1: look in the mirror and they're not seeing what everyone
Speaker 1: else is seeing kind of thing. So, do you have
Speaker 1: some kind of ethical obligation? I know you're saying other doctors,
Speaker 1: if they take a credit card, they'll do it, but
Speaker 1: just from your board, certification and everything, is there some
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know where you would exactly draw
Speaker 1: that line, but I've seen women get in these insane
Speaker 1: size implants and then them rupturing and just looking at it, thinking,
Speaker 1: how could a surgeon ever look at this woman and
Speaker 1: think that this was this was going to be safe
Speaker 1: for her. You're putting her in a dangerous situation and
Speaker 1: she doesn't even really realize it as much as the
Speaker 1: surgeon would. So do you have some kind of ethics
Speaker 1: or is it just to your discretion? Like you could
Speaker 1: do whatever you want.
Speaker 2: Basically, it's really to your discretion. It's you know, it's hard,
Speaker 2: you know what I learned is we would say people
Speaker 2: do things in poor taste or good taste, but I
Speaker 2: think that there's really not good or bad taste.
Speaker 1: There's just taste.
Speaker 2: And so some people have a taste for things that
Speaker 2: are very extreme, and with that taste becomes more problems
Speaker 2: in complication. And I think that some of these patients
Speaker 2: who take it to an extreme, they have something from
Speaker 2: a mental illness standpoint going on that is leeting them there. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's true. Body dysmorphia. You know,
Speaker 2: body dysmorphia is a real diagnosis that it gets abused
Speaker 2: by the media either like Kim Kardashie has body doesswork.
Speaker 2: It's not body dysmorphia. Body dysmorphia isn't someone choosing something
Speaker 2: for their body that you don't like. Body dysmorphia is
Speaker 2: someone who has a hyperfixation on a body part. They
Speaker 2: spend an hour to two hours more a day trying
Speaker 2: to camouflage it, staring at it, worrying about it, and
Speaker 2: their concerns are really out of proportion to what's happening
Speaker 2: in reality. These patients that do repeated surgeries, extreme surgeries
Speaker 2: to their own detriment is a different issue, and I
Speaker 2: actually don't really know. It would be interesting talk to
Speaker 2: as psychologists or psychiatrist about what they think about these people.
Speaker 2: But I think you do have an ethical obligation not
Speaker 2: to harm people, and you are objectively harming people. And
Speaker 2: no matter how much someone tells you they understand risk,
Speaker 2: you don't have to be part of that risk. So
Speaker 2: if someone comes in and they're willing to do something
Speaker 2: that could be petitionally fatal or have a bad outcome,
Speaker 2: or change their life trajectory for the worst, you don't
Speaker 2: have to be part of that. They can have that
Speaker 2: and want that, and you don't have to be part
Speaker 2: of it. And so, you know, I think all of
Speaker 2: us should be saying no to people if we think
Speaker 2: they're harming themselves or their bodies.
Speaker 1: So, speaking of extreme plastic surgery, there's been this this
Speaker 1: one TikTok account that's been rotating the past couple of
Speaker 1: weeks of this guy. I don't know if you sud
Speaker 1: to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get tagged at it five times a day
Speaker 2: for my followers. If it's wild. I have like I'm
Speaker 2: a weird blastic surgeon because I struggle a lot with
Speaker 2: some of the things we do. I have a young daughter,
Speaker 2: and I think I have no problem with people making
Speaker 2: decisions to alter their bodies in ways that bring them joy.
Speaker 2: But I think when you're trying to erase who you
Speaker 2: are and become something or so different, it makes me
Speaker 2: uncomfortable and it gives me pause. And this plastic surgeon
Speaker 2: is doing of surgery on people, and the incisions are
Speaker 2: not placed well the patients, Like if you see they're
Speaker 2: not moving their faces properly in the after photos like
Speaker 2: this is very extreme facial changes and there's no long
Speaker 2: term photos, and there's people in the comments saying like
Speaker 2: the photos are great, nobody would go to them and
Speaker 2: like where are they? Then, if you have great six
Speaker 2: month photos, you would put those up. You wouldn't just
Speaker 2: put immediate post off photos like he does. So it's
Speaker 2: very concerning. And you know, we're seeing more and more
Speaker 2: extreme things like this where people are altering their bodies
Speaker 2: in ways that are not present in nature, and I
Speaker 2: don't think this is an area that we should be
Speaker 2: jumping into.
Speaker 1: For my feel I honestly have an opinion about that
Speaker 1: particular guy that those people are either they're doing it
Speaker 1: either against their will or they're getting paid an insane
Speaker 1: amount of money. The reason that I think that is
Speaker 1: because when you look at their before pictures, they don't
Speaker 1: look like some of them. They don't look like they
Speaker 1: ever cared about what they looked like a day in
Speaker 1: their life. And then all of a sudden, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, it's not a person that's had
Speaker 1: multiple face lifts and wants to get more and more
Speaker 1: and more. It's like people that look seventy five years
Speaker 1: old that never had a surgery or anything in their life,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they want to do something
Speaker 1: this extreme. Is he is he almost doing the procedure.
Speaker 1: Looks like he's almost doing like a face transplant on
Speaker 1: the person, like completely removing their face and then putting
Speaker 1: it back on. It really does.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got a hairline incision that's placed too low.
Speaker 2: He always had incisions in front of the ears that
Speaker 2: go behind, so a full facelift. I it's I don't
Speaker 2: know exactly what he's doing. He's you know, he's got
Speaker 2: very exaggerated kantapexies where he's pulling the eyes up very
Speaker 2: very aggressively at the sides.
Speaker 1: It's their ears looking sane. Did you see their ears
Speaker 1: are like flipped upside down. I know, I was like,
Speaker 1: what is this guy doing?
Speaker 2: I'd be curious to find out what exactly he's doing
Speaker 2: and then you know, run screaming from it. Never do
Speaker 2: anything near that in my entire life because it's it's
Speaker 2: so unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Well, he's not practicing in America. I don't believe either.
Speaker 1: So there's that I don't know what standards wherever he's living.
Speaker 1: But there's also some other ones that I've seen about women,
Speaker 1: like removing their ribs to have a trimmer wasteline, and
Speaker 1: that is something that's done here correct here.
Speaker 2: And there's a plastic surgeon. He's pretty prominent on social
Speaker 2: media and he's a real plastic surgeon. He doesn't I
Speaker 2: you know. To me, it's I don't ever want to
Speaker 2: do something that is worry. Cosmetic surgeries have amazing psychologic impact.
Speaker 2: They make people feel good about themselves and enhance their lives.
Speaker 2: But I never want to do a surgery that puts
Speaker 2: you at risk from a health standpoint. If I can,
Speaker 2: if I can, and people are just say President one
Speaker 2: not is relaxed. When you remove rids, you are now
Speaker 2: taking away protection from your livery or spleen. Your ribs
Speaker 2: have a job, right, They're doing things, and so I
Speaker 2: don't love that idea. You know, you can ask yourself
Speaker 2: other things we do have potential risk, but I think
Speaker 2: that's a potential risk I don't really want to delve into.
Speaker 1: So, speaking of these famous social media plastic surgeons, I
Speaker 1: actually went to one doctor Miami or Michael salshollower I love.
Speaker 1: I loved my experience with him. I went there, his
Speaker 1: office was super professional. Everyone that worked there. It almost
Speaker 1: was like what he was portraying on the internet and
Speaker 1: what was happening there was just so professional. It was
Speaker 1: just it was really it was just a great experience overall.
Speaker 1: But I've also heard horror story. So one of the
Speaker 1: news stories that we talked about was Jackie Oh. She
Speaker 1: had died from having a brazil like a Brazilian butler
Speaker 1: slash Mommy makeover. And apparently she went to one of
Speaker 1: these clinics that are pushed all the time in Miami,
Speaker 1: specifically that are pumping out these Brazilian butt lifts for
Speaker 1: really inexpensive and they're doing multiple procedures a day. And
Speaker 1: there's also a surgeon, her name was doctor Roxy, who
Speaker 1: had just lost her license right from doing videos because
Speaker 1: they were able to prove that a patient had complications
Speaker 1: because she was kind of it looks like she was
Speaker 1: doing liposuction and staring at the camera and not even
Speaker 1: looking where she was putting the canula. How do you
Speaker 1: feel the internet has both helped and hurt your field?
Speaker 2: So, you know, there is it's a hard it's a
Speaker 2: hard subject.
Speaker 1: You know. I'm on social media and I enjoy it.
Speaker 2: I try to focus on educating patients and I do
Speaker 2: silly things and funny stuff here and there, but I
Speaker 2: try to not do it with I do not do
Speaker 2: it with patients involved. I think that social media is
Speaker 2: a very powerful tool for patient education. It's a powerful
Speaker 2: tool for driving patience into your practice. From a business standpoint,
Speaker 2: the problem is is that not every person handles social
Speaker 2: media well. And so there are plastic surgeons with monster
Speaker 2: followings that are wonderful at social media and they also
Speaker 2: maintain their ethics and take good care of patients. And
Speaker 2: then there's also plastic surgeons that don't have that skill,
Speaker 2: and doctor Roxy seems to be one of those people.
Speaker 2: And to be clear, she didn't lose her license because
Speaker 2: of social media. That made the news stories more solacious.
Speaker 2: She lost her license because of horrific patient care. And
Speaker 2: I think that needs to be clear, is that you
Speaker 2: know she from I don't know her personally, but I
Speaker 2: know people who train with her and know her. And
Speaker 2: she was a wonderful surgeon and did wonderful work in
Speaker 2: her residency and in her younger doctor life, was very
Speaker 2: well respected and liked and even in her early life.
Speaker 2: And I think she's someone who just seeings that social
Speaker 2: media changed how she cared for patients. And that is
Speaker 2: if that is you, the following is not worth it.
Speaker 2: If you are someone like to you, who is an ethical,
Speaker 2: wonderful surgeon, he's funny with a huge following, then yeah,
Speaker 2: social media is wonderful for you. But sometimes it's hard
Speaker 2: to self reflect and though is this helping me or
Speaker 2: is this hurting me? In doctor Roxy's standpoint, it really
Speaker 2: obviously hurt her because now she has lost a career
Speaker 2: that she worked. Like I said, how long I worked?
Speaker 2: That fell long she worked to get there. She lost
Speaker 2: all of her youth training in plastic surgery here practice anymore,
Speaker 2: which is awful. It's it's it's just it's it's a tragedy.
Speaker 2: All around. It's a tragedy for her family, It's a
Speaker 2: tragedy ten times for her patience families, and it should
Speaker 2: have never happened in social media. Was certainly to see
Speaker 2: that that grewm that situation. I think we plastic surgeons,
Speaker 2: we have unfortunately allowed cosmetic surgeons to take the lead
Speaker 2: on social media, and it's hurt our profession. It's allowed
Speaker 2: people who aren't properly trained in plastic surgery to develop
Speaker 2: reputations that potentially harm people without proper training. I think
Speaker 2: that we should have jumped on it sooner, But we
Speaker 2: do need some kind of better ethics or understanding for
Speaker 2: how we should behave because I don't think all of
Speaker 2: us get it right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think in general, the social media thing kind of
Speaker 1: creeped up on everyone, and everyone just jumped on it,
Speaker 1: and now we're all stepping back and saying, wow, maybe
Speaker 1: it's not a good idea to post pictures of our
Speaker 1: kids online and just get actually giving training to kids
Speaker 1: in high school just because you could ruin your life
Speaker 1: just by posting things that might come up later and everything.
Speaker 1: But I feel like no, especially us, like when I
Speaker 1: didn't even get a phone until I was twenty some
Speaker 1: years old, like a cell phone, you know, social media
Speaker 1: not until I was in my thirties already. So I
Speaker 1: lived a lot of my life not knowing that world
Speaker 1: and then jumping onto it. I was an educator on
Speaker 1: how to handle having that amount of attention and followers
Speaker 1: and stuff within a short period of time, and I
Speaker 1: think that I think a lot of people don't know
Speaker 1: what to do with that either. So, yeah, it's intoxicating.
Speaker 2: You know, you wake up and you have a million
Speaker 2: comments and lights and attention and your followers. Though up,
Speaker 2: I completely understand how that can be something that's intoxicating,
Speaker 2: but you have to It's it's like an addiction in
Speaker 2: some ways. Right, It's like some people can drink alcohol
Speaker 2: and be fine and other people have that genetics where
Speaker 2: it goes too far. And I think social media is
Speaker 2: a similar problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Okay, have you ever done any surgical
Speaker 1: You don't obviously don't tell us any names, but have
Speaker 1: you ever done any procedures on any celebrities? I for have,
Speaker 1: And that's so that this is interesting to me because
Speaker 1: I when I worked in the city, we used to
Speaker 1: have we had like people from the Eagles come in
Speaker 1: and the mayor, like all these famous people will come
Speaker 1: into the hospital and they put them in this special
Speaker 1: suite and they gave them fake names, Jane Doe, John
Speaker 1: Doe it was. And we would just get a phone call,
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a frozen section come down on a VIP.
Speaker 1: That was all we knew. They sometimes we wouldn't even
Speaker 1: know the person's name because they're just too afraid that
Speaker 1: it's going to leak to the media somehow that they're
Speaker 1: getting treatment at a hospital. So when you have patients
Speaker 1: that are more VIP, especially when they're not very open
Speaker 1: about getting plastic and cosmetic procedures and things, what do
Speaker 1: you do in that circumstance do you have to? I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand HIPPA exists, but people break it all the time, right,
Speaker 1: So how do you ensure that these celebrities can kind
Speaker 1: of come in and out of where you're doing surgery
Speaker 1: and not get caught so to speak.
Speaker 2: So I am well versed in celebrity surgery because I
Speaker 2: treated seer signing. So when I started, when I started
Speaker 2: general surgery at See Your SIGNI we signed a agreement
Speaker 2: this big and they had basically every celebrity was like
Speaker 2: at the time. I'm sure it's different now at higher tech,
Speaker 2: but there was a pager associated with all the celebrity charts,
Speaker 2: and every time they were accessed, someone would check and
Speaker 2: see if it was appropriate access. And you were literally
Speaker 2: fired off a spot at Sedars if they found you
Speaker 2: in a chart. And one of my friends was actually
Speaker 2: that happened to him. He was doing research and he
Speaker 2: properly opened a patient's chart who was a celebrity for
Speaker 2: a project that he was doing, and was immediately fired
Speaker 2: and it took a couple of weeks to get him
Speaker 2: back on staff. So that's how serious theaters sign I
Speaker 2: takes things, which is why you rarely have leaks for Cedars.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you that celebrities get some of the worst
Speaker 2: care I've seen in medicine because people do weird shit
Speaker 2: for them, and I decided early on in my career
Speaker 2: that celebrities would not be treated differently. In my practice,
Speaker 2: I do not shut things down. I don't come after hours.
Speaker 2: I don't do weird stuff because I want them to
Speaker 2: get the best, high quality care that all of my
Speaker 2: patients get. I don't believe in VIPs, so in my
Speaker 2: personal practice, I don't do anything special for them. Other
Speaker 2: than I will obviously, we change their names often in
Speaker 2: the computer, so they have that as an extra level
Speaker 2: of protection. And we always can accommodate people if they're
Speaker 2: trying not.
Speaker 1: To be seen coming in and out of the office.
Speaker 1: But other than that, I don't do.
Speaker 2: A whole lot, which you know, I think celebrities are funny.
Speaker 2: Some celebrities really really want to be treated differently, and
Speaker 2: they're never going to find a home in my practice,
Speaker 2: and you will find that elsewhere. But I think a
Speaker 2: lot of celebrities actually appreciate being treated like a regular human.
Speaker 1: I huntred percent believe in what you're saying about the
Speaker 1: VIPs getting the worst treatment. I've seen it in real
Speaker 1: life at the hospital for example, Like if they would
Speaker 1: come down and tell us, I don't even know why
Speaker 1: they would tell us that we were getting a VIP specimen,
Speaker 1: because we treat every specimen the same exact way, and
Speaker 1: in fact, we would do things like normal things that
Speaker 1: are considered procedure to do a frozen section on like
Speaker 1: what is appropriate for frozen section versus permanent section, and
Speaker 1: they would be like, oh, we'll just freeze it, and
Speaker 1: we would like maybe we shouldn't do that because we
Speaker 1: might ruin the tissue. And but they want to give
Speaker 1: the answers right then and there. And then when you
Speaker 1: when you skip procedures, that's when things get screwed up.
Speaker 1: And every week in the gross Room, I write about
Speaker 1: celebrity death dissections and high profile death dissections, and I
Speaker 1: really go through their autopsy reports and see, like what
Speaker 1: caused these celebrities to die? And every single time, it's
Speaker 1: because they were getting some kind of extra treatment that
Speaker 1: is not normal protocol, whether it's showing up at their
Speaker 1: house giving them drugs they don't need, whatever it is
Speaker 1: giving them surgeries they don't need. And it's it's just
Speaker 1: interesting that you say that because I have a thing
Speaker 1: that I say, like the VIP treatment is the worst treatment.
Speaker 1: It's it's just really interesting that you see that from
Speaker 1: your perspective as well. Yeah, I've seen plastic surgery, general surgery,
Speaker 1: I've seen it, every specialty. You know, if you are
Speaker 1: a celebrity listening to this, just you want normal, evidence
Speaker 1: based care. You don't want something special, because special is
Speaker 1: never better. Yeah, I one hundred percent agree. I saw
Speaker 1: on your website that you have some other kinds of
Speaker 1: medical professionals working for you, including pas and nurse practitioners.
Speaker 1: I do. That's that's cool. I love. I love to
Speaker 1: hear that because I always you know, some people listening
Speaker 1: to this might right now might say I can't go
Speaker 1: to college for fifteen years or do training for fifteen years,
Speaker 1: But there are lesser degrees you can get and still
Speaker 1: have a place in your field. So what are some
Speaker 1: things that they're able to do in your field and
Speaker 1: what are some of their limitations because of their education? Sure,
Speaker 1: so I shout out to Amy and Christina. Amy is
Speaker 1: my nurse practitioner.
Speaker 2: Christina's my PA, and they are their mind because they're
Speaker 2: part of my team, not because I busness them. People
Speaker 2: always get mad at me on social when I say that,
Speaker 2: but they're both.
Speaker 1: Exceptional and this is what they do in their role.
Speaker 1: So Christina my PA.
Speaker 2: She actually has experienced in the emergency room like you, right,
Speaker 2: I believe, and she did orthopedic surgery before she came
Speaker 2: in worked with me. So her role on my team
Speaker 2: is she hangs out with me for new patient consults
Speaker 2: and helps me take notes to make sure I get
Speaker 2: all the charts correct. She is the queen of my
Speaker 2: preop evaluation. She's the one that will be in the
Speaker 2: room with you for an hour or two hours, however
Speaker 2: long you need, so that you understand clearly the surgery
Speaker 2: and the post op requirements. And then I come in,
Speaker 2: you know, and at the very end, and patients never
Speaker 2: have questions because she's so exceptional and answers everything so well.
Speaker 2: And she assists me in the operating room. So she
Speaker 2: is my first assist in the operating room. And it's
Speaker 2: amazing it surgery is so smooth. When you have a
Speaker 2: good you are only as good as your assistant in
Speaker 2: the operating room. So that's Christina's role. So she doesn't
Speaker 2: perform the surgery by herself. She's assisting me in surgery.
Speaker 2: But so that's really the main limitation. But I think
Speaker 2: she has a really important role. She helps me keep
Speaker 2: my patients safer and she helps me get them out
Speaker 2: of the operating room fast, which is safer for patients.
Speaker 2: And she's just exceptional my nurse practitioner, and this is
Speaker 2: a unique role in my practice. Not many people have this.
Speaker 2: She helps me taking care of patients post up. So
Speaker 2: we have a like an encrypted testing system and we
Speaker 2: hook patients up directly with her, and so she is
Speaker 2: immediately available for them for the first month after surgery
Speaker 2: to help them with anything they're concerned about. And it
Speaker 2: was interesting for me. I think I'm a very good educator,
Speaker 2: and patients would rarely call me at night or after hours,
Speaker 2: and I was like, cause I'm so good, And as
Speaker 2: soon as we hired Amy, there was a million calls
Speaker 2: and I realized that no matter how friendly, nice and
Speaker 2: lovely I am, there is a power dynamic. I think
Speaker 2: patients are act comfortable bringing concerns to me, and it's
Speaker 2: been really wonderful for patients because they have someone who's
Speaker 2: a little bit separated who can help them with you know,
Speaker 2: why is my dressing have blood on it? You know
Speaker 2: this list looks swollen? Am I supposed to be bruised?
Speaker 2: Here is my leg's supposed to it?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Questions they weren't comfortable asking me, They are comfortable asking Amy,
Speaker 2: And then Amy can help alleviate their anxiety because I
Speaker 2: always say anxiety.
Speaker 1: Is the enemy of feelings.
Speaker 2: So both of them have a very important role in
Speaker 2: my practice and they just allow me to take better
Speaker 2: care of patients. Both of them also do some laser
Speaker 2: and aesthetic treatments, so lasers, fillers, botox, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: They don't full time do it. We do have a.
Speaker 2: Nurse practitioner in our practice who does That's all she
Speaker 2: does is non invasive treatments, but the two that I
Speaker 2: primarily work with just dabble in it with my patients
Speaker 2: in addition to other patient care things they do.
Speaker 1: I love that actually, because I because I've been a
Speaker 1: patient before of cosmetic procedure and you always think, like,
Speaker 1: is this normal. I don't, but I would ever want
Speaker 1: to bother the doctor with certain things. And I remember
Speaker 1: when I when I came home from my trip because
Speaker 1: I had to go to Miami to get my surgery.
Speaker 1: And when I came home, I went to pet my cat,
Speaker 1: and my cat bit my hand. I guess she was
Speaker 1: just pissed that I had left her for like a
Speaker 1: week and that was the only time I ever left her,
Speaker 1: so she just I don't know what happened, but I
Speaker 1: just went down this rabbit hole of like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm healing from the surgery. What if I get some
Speaker 1: weird bacteria infection in my hand? And I went back
Speaker 1: and forth, and I was like, ah, should I call
Speaker 1: all right, I'll finally call him. And I felt so
Speaker 1: guilty because it was like a Friday night or something terrible,
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to bother them. But so it
Speaker 1: is nice to have to have a person that is
Speaker 1: kind of that you could contact in that kind of
Speaker 1: situation like that you just just from the patient's perspective. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I love I always felt. So. I never did work
Speaker 1: in the eer. I've only worked in the lab, but
Speaker 1: at the entire time that I worked in the lab,
Speaker 1: I went from working in just like clinical lab stuff,
Speaker 1: blood work and everything to pathology. And I had a
Speaker 1: high concentration of working with surgeons all the time because
Speaker 1: of doing frozen sections and doing the gross pathology in
Speaker 1: surgical pathology. And I always found that the best surgeons
Speaker 1: were ones like you who really respect your your co
Speaker 1: workers and the other medical professionals that are working under you,
Speaker 1: and recognize that they're helping you be and they're just
Speaker 1: like a necessory to you being a great surgeon. And
Speaker 1: trust me, there's been times where we've had doctors come
Speaker 1: down and talk because us working in surgical pathology were
Speaker 1: pas too, and they would come down and talk down
Speaker 1: to us and didn't respect their nurses and their pas,
Speaker 1: and it just it just shows in my opinion, who's
Speaker 1: a good surgeon that I would feel like going to,
Speaker 1: versus not that thinks that people are below them kind of.
Speaker 1: I've gotten that vibe off of some surgeons before. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean they're just all of these different roles in medicine.
Speaker 2: We all make the patient experience and outcomes better while
Speaker 2: we work together. And if we work against each other,
Speaker 2: I think, you know, all the truth battles are so silly.
Speaker 2: We're so much stronger as a team when we all
Speaker 2: use our talents together to give patients better care.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you there. There's just there's just
Speaker 1: some mega egos going on with.
Speaker 2: Some people, there is, and surgery has the majority of them,
Speaker 2: as you know.
Speaker 1: But I love some ct Like there's some surgeons that
Speaker 1: I was that would come downstairs and be like, yo, Nicole,
Speaker 1: what's up? Like that?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: They were like so cool? And then I would go
Speaker 1: look them up and I'd be like, holy shit, that
Speaker 1: guy's a big deal. Like I can't believe he's so cool,
Speaker 1: you know. And I I a lot of them that
Speaker 1: that I would go to. I mean, not that I
Speaker 1: have any kind of like kidney problems now, but like,
Speaker 1: I know who I would go to if I did,
Speaker 1: because I'm like that dude was awesome, you know. So
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that you're that you're like that
Speaker 1: and given shout outs to your PA and your nurse practitioners.
Speaker 1: That's really cool. So what's let's hear before we wrap
Speaker 1: this up, Like, what's going on in your life right now?
Speaker 1: You you have kids? You said I do.
Speaker 2: I have two kids. My daughter is and was is eleven.
Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, there's they're they're the best.
Speaker 2: It's having kids is the wildest journey because you get
Speaker 2: to watch like things about yourself. You're like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I do that too, should not do that? And then
Speaker 2: the good things about yourself too you get to see
Speaker 2: in your kids.
Speaker 1: It's wild.
Speaker 2: And I have a hobby. I have Dalmatians, and I
Speaker 2: have gotten into the world of showing and dog sports
Speaker 2: the last that's so cool. And my daughter started doing it,
Speaker 2: so she's I'm doing junior handler or junior showmanship showing
Speaker 2: one of our dogs. So yeah, I mean that's kind
Speaker 2: of what I have. I always have something going on.
Speaker 2: I need, like I like to hyper.
Speaker 1: Fixate on hobby.
Speaker 2: So I'll probably do this for a couple of years
Speaker 2: until they retire, and then I'll have a new hyperfixation hobby.
Speaker 1: So what you got into the TV world? How did
Speaker 1: that first start? So?
Speaker 2: You know, LA is an interesting place because the second
Speaker 2: I moved back home about nine years ago, you get
Speaker 2: calls three times a week at least I do, people
Speaker 2: trying to hunt around for people potentially on shows.
Speaker 1: And so when.
Speaker 2: I I've been in LA for maybe a year and
Speaker 2: I got a call and they were interested in me
Speaker 2: for a show and they didn't tell me what it was,
Speaker 2: and I did a zoom interview or whatever zoom was
Speaker 2: back then it was the Skype or whatever, and I
Speaker 2: didn't hear from them for years.
Speaker 1: It was just like I did.
Speaker 2: I made it to the last step and then you know,
Speaker 2: everything fizzled out. And I've done lots of this sense,
Speaker 2: so this is kind of how you know one percent
Speaker 2: of what they.
Speaker 1: Do actually makes it.
Speaker 2: And then a couple of years later, I got a
Speaker 2: call from the casting producer and he said, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: E fired a bunch of people. There's a new person
Speaker 2: in charge who really loved this show years ago, and
Speaker 2: she wants to revisit it.
Speaker 1: Are you still interested?
Speaker 2: Is like four or five years later, and I was
Speaker 2: like sure, and he said, I don't think we need
Speaker 2: to refilm anything because you were great in the first audition.
Speaker 2: I said, okay, fine. And then about four or five
Speaker 2: months later, in the middle of clinic one day, I
Speaker 2: got a phone call from an unknown number and I
Speaker 2: answered it and everyone's screaming and I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: know who this is, what's going on? And it was
Speaker 2: the producer and he said he picked a us up
Speaker 2: for a full.
Speaker 1: Season and they want you.
Speaker 2: We had a bunch of candidates and they chose you
Speaker 2: from the stack, so I got to be on the show.
Speaker 1: That's how it happened.
Speaker 2: It was very you know, that's so cool. It was
Speaker 2: very cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you go to work that day, it's just a
Speaker 1: normal day and you go, oh, I got some news
Speaker 1: be on a television show. And it was a great
Speaker 1: experience for a couple of reasons. That the first reason
Speaker 1: it was great, I made a very dear friend. Michelle
Speaker 1: Lee is one of the other surgeons on the show,
Speaker 1: and her and I are very good friends. And that's
Speaker 1: the best part of a show is gaining a wonderful
Speaker 1: lifetime friend like.
Speaker 2: That, and then I just I love reality TV.
Speaker 1: So I love the.
Speaker 2: Process of like knowing how it works. I love the crew.
Speaker 2: Some of our crew worked on like RuPaul's Drive Race
Speaker 2: and the Kardashians, and it was fun hearing all their
Speaker 2: behind the scenes story. Our showrunner, what Lori Gordon, was
Speaker 2: a Emmy Award winning, our producer did the original Doctor
Speaker 2: nine or two and zero and if botched, Like it's
Speaker 2: just the cast of people we worked with was so incredible.
Speaker 2: It was really fun part and it just sucked. It
Speaker 2: was a you know, Casulty of twenty twenty. You know,
Speaker 2: e was bought by Peacock and they just kind of
Speaker 2: canned everything that didn't have another season already in the work, so,
Speaker 2: you know, one season show.
Speaker 1: But it was a good time. So you so it
Speaker 1: sounds like you'd be interested in doing something again if
Speaker 1: the opportunity arose. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I get offered things here and there, but I think
Speaker 2: that had such a powerful experience with that it would
Speaker 2: be hard for me to take something that didn't live
Speaker 2: up to that expectation. They were really great about allowing
Speaker 2: me to show the things that were important to me,
Speaker 2: like breast reconstruction and dealing with people with like chest
Speaker 2: wall deformities, and to show more of what I do
Speaker 2: and not just the typical fluff.
Speaker 1: Plastic surgery that you see. Yeah, which I think is
Speaker 1: important because people need to know that some of the
Speaker 1: complications that lots of women go through and how and
Speaker 1: how they could be fixed. It's not the end of
Speaker 1: the world if it happens necessarily. All right, Well, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for being here today. It was so nice
Speaker 1: meeting you, and I think that everybody got to learn
Speaker 1: a lot about this. I'm sure people listening right now
Speaker 1: have implants and maybe didn't even hear all of this
Speaker 1: from their surgeons, so it's really awesome, and I think
Speaker 1: you explained everything in a way that's very easy for
Speaker 1: everyone to understand. Thank you, Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me. This was really fun, awesome, Thanks thank you
Speaker 1: for listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder, my
Speaker 1: training is as a pathologist's assistant. I have a master's
Speaker 1: level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I
Speaker 1: am not a doctor, and I have not diagnosed or
Speaker 1: treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of a
Speaker 1: licensed medical doctor. This show My website and social media
Speaker 1: accounts are designed to educate and inform people based on
Speaker 1: my experience working in pathology, so they can make healthier
Speaker 1: decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember that
Speaker 1: science is changing every day and the opinions expressed in
Speaker 1: this episode are based on my knowledge of those subjects
Speaker 1: at the time of publication. If you are having a
Speaker 1: medical problem, have a medical question, or having a medical emergency,
Speaker 1: please contact your physician or visit an urgent care center,
Speaker 1: emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review, and subscribe to
Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you
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