WEBVTT - External Exam - Breasts with the Best, Dr. Kelly Killeen

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<v Speaker 1>Mother Knows Death Presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey everyone, welcome to this week's External Exam episode on

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<v Speaker 1>Mother nos Death. We've been talking about plastic surgery and

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<v Speaker 1>in the news over the past few months since we

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<v Speaker 1>started the podcast, and I thought it would be great

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<v Speaker 1>today if we interviewed an expert in the field. This

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<v Speaker 1>is doctor Kelly Colleen. Hi, welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Colleen is a double board certified plastic surgeon in

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<v Speaker 1>Beverly Hills and she's also appeared in multiple news stories, podcasts,

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<v Speaker 1>and TV shows, including her own, which is Doctor nine

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<v Speaker 1>O two one. Oh. So that is super cool and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll get into asking you about that experience later, but

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<v Speaker 1>before we die, I've been too all that. I want

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<v Speaker 1>to first start out asking you just about how you

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<v Speaker 1>got where you are today. So did you always know

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<v Speaker 1>that you wanted to be a doctor?

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<v Speaker 2>So I actually didn't. My parents are both surgeons, and.

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<v Speaker 1>I think for that reason, I wanted to be.

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<v Speaker 2>Everything other than a doctor. And one summer when I

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<v Speaker 2>was in college, I was home for the weekend. And

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<v Speaker 2>you are not allowed to do this now, this is

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<v Speaker 2>very many decades ago. My dad was like, because I was,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, bored at the house in the house board,

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<v Speaker 2>and he said, hey, do you want to come watch

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<v Speaker 2>a surgery? I'm doing aneurism or care. And so I

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<v Speaker 2>went to the hospital and I got to be an

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<v Speaker 2>observer in the operating room. I was just hooked. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>nothing I have ever seen was as cool as that,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just.

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<v Speaker 1>Knew I needed to be a surgeon. That's so cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you think, oh, my dad's so cool, Like you

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<v Speaker 1>never really realized what he did until that day. I did.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think you hear all the words at home,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, you just never think your parents are

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<v Speaker 2>cool when you're a teenager.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, but yeah, and it was. It was awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>And my my boyfriend at the time came as well

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<v Speaker 2>and he passed out.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, what are we why?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, you're wame. But yeah, it was just a

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<v Speaker 2>cool experience and it kind of set me in the path.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in now. That's that's so great. That's I love

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<v Speaker 1>hearing people's stories. It was a similar thing with me

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<v Speaker 1>because when I started working in the hospital and everything,

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<v Speaker 1>we were allowed just anybody was allowed to go view

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<v Speaker 1>all top season Unfortunately, it's not like that anymore because

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<v Speaker 1>that's how a lot of people get there. They're like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to do this for a living, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>where they get their passion and drive from. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>just different than watching it on a video or just

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<v Speaker 1>hearing about it for sure. So, so you started medical school,

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<v Speaker 1>and so when you started medical school, you knew you

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<v Speaker 1>were going for surgery. That was the plan. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>love surgery. I wasn't.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't really have strong ideas.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew I.

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<v Speaker 2>Always liked plastics, but I'm I'm one of those students

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<v Speaker 2>that I love every rotation I'm on, and so I

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<v Speaker 2>had a little bit of a hard time figuring out

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<v Speaker 2>what I wanted to do because every field of surgery

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<v Speaker 2>was so amazing. But there's definitely a surgical personality, like

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<v Speaker 2>looking back on my friend group, like you know early on,

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<v Speaker 2>like who's destined for medicine and medicine subspecialties.

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<v Speaker 1>And who's destined for surgery. So once you were through

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<v Speaker 1>with medical school, then you did a residency in surgery,

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<v Speaker 1>and then when you started that residency and surgery were

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<v Speaker 1>was that just you didn't really have it pinpointed yet,

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<v Speaker 1>Like when was the time that you said, Okay, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>definitely going into cosmetic surgery.

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<v Speaker 2>So I've always had an interest in plastic surgery. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think you have to decide by about your fourth

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<v Speaker 2>year because that's when fellowship.

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<v Speaker 1>Applications go in.

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<v Speaker 2>So in I did a full general surgery residency first,

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<v Speaker 2>so that's why i'm double board certified. It's both of

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<v Speaker 2>my boards or are recognized boards, so general surgery boards,

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<v Speaker 2>the American Border Surgery. And then I did my fellowship,

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<v Speaker 2>so I had to decide by fourth year. And the

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<v Speaker 2>specialty that I had a really hard time, like going

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<v Speaker 2>back and forth was vascular versus plastic surgery. I just

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<v Speaker 2>loved vascular surgery too, but I think for my personality,

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<v Speaker 2>plastic surgery made more sense.

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<v Speaker 1>That's cool, So I think in an important point to

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<v Speaker 1>say is that if you decided right now that you

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want to be a plastic surgeon anymore, you could

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<v Speaker 1>go do other surgeries because you're a board certified surgeon first, correct, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So I could like go and get privileges to do

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<v Speaker 1>lap Coli'S her ny repairs and take call.

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<v Speaker 2>At a at a hospital. I loved my general surgery training.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of plastic surgeons. Most plastic surgeons now don't

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<v Speaker 2>train in the way that I did. They have now

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<v Speaker 2>transitioned most plastic surgery training to a shortened program where

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<v Speaker 2>you do less general surgery and those years are more

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<v Speaker 2>focused in things applicable to playtics, and so it's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of an accelerated track through it. Most people don't realize this,

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<v Speaker 2>and I didn't realize this until I started working in

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<v Speaker 2>the hospital. Just how long it takes to become what

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<v Speaker 2>you consider a doctor, somebody that is working and making

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<v Speaker 2>good money. And they don't realize that when you're in

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<v Speaker 2>your residency and your fellowship you really don't.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't make a ton of money. It's just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of enough to get by. But how old were you

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<v Speaker 1>when the day you started college versus the day you

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<v Speaker 1>were able to be a real doctor. So I was

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<v Speaker 1>a little young starting college.

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<v Speaker 2>I was seventeen, and I've finished all of my training

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<v Speaker 2>and was set free to be in attending when I

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<v Speaker 2>was thirty three.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's really amazing. A lot of people just don't

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<v Speaker 1>think of how many years of your life that you

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<v Speaker 1>have to dedicate to that. It's a lot. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's really cool. So we already went over the double

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<v Speaker 1>board certified thing, which is cool, I think. I I

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<v Speaker 1>always like to give that advice to no matter what

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<v Speaker 1>level of education you're at, that you could if you

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<v Speaker 1>actually start working and hate what you're doing, that you

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<v Speaker 1>have kind of a fallback. So I think that that's

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<v Speaker 1>cool that you could do the two separate things. And

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<v Speaker 1>this way, if you just started doing cosmetic surgeries and

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<v Speaker 1>you were like, this isn't for me, then you have

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<v Speaker 1>a backup, and that's good at any education level. A

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<v Speaker 1>few weeks ago on the news, we talked about Black China.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you're familiar with her, probably you are,

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<v Speaker 1>and we discussed that she was getting all of these

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<v Speaker 1>cosmetic procedures, not only to dissolve fillers in her face,

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<v Speaker 1>which by the way, she in my opinion, she looks

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<v Speaker 1>a thousand times more beautiful now just being a lot

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<v Speaker 1>less of that stuff, but she also discussed that she

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<v Speaker 1>was having complications from her breast implants. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>we hear a lot about people getting breast implants. It's

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<v Speaker 1>correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the number one

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<v Speaker 1>cosmetic procedure in this country, at least one of the top.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, LiPo such and breast augmentation. Uh was it breast reductions?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? All right, So I want to get into that

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<v Speaker 1>because I think we hear so much about all of

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, all of these people we see that are

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<v Speaker 1>celebrities and everything. It seems like so many of them

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<v Speaker 1>have breast implants, but we don't hear too much about

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<v Speaker 1>the complications that could come with breast implants. And for her,

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<v Speaker 1>I believe she had like capsular contraction. Can you explain

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<v Speaker 1>to us a little bit what that is? Absolutely so,

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<v Speaker 1>and I totally agree with you.

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<v Speaker 2>I think one of the biggest things that we have

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<v Speaker 2>screwed up as a field in plastic surgery is breast

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<v Speaker 2>implants and educating patients that are getting them.

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<v Speaker 1>So, breast implants are not a lifetime device. They are.

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<v Speaker 2>We have known this for a very long time, but

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<v Speaker 2>unfortunately patients are still to this day not commonly told that.

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<v Speaker 2>And in addition to having a device that requires maintenance,

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<v Speaker 2>it also requires imaging for watching it and if you

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<v Speaker 2>have silicone implants, and we just have not been good

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<v Speaker 2>traditionally at telling women this. So one of the complications

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<v Speaker 2>that you can get from your breast implants is something

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<v Speaker 2>called capsular contracture.

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<v Speaker 1>And so anytime you put a foreign.

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<v Speaker 2>Body in your body, your body recognizes that it's not you,

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<v Speaker 2>and it walled off with a scar tissue sack. And

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<v Speaker 2>we call that the capsule. And that's the same for

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<v Speaker 2>and you've seen as in autopsies, for peacemakers and hip replacements,

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<v Speaker 2>any type of foreign body, you get a capsule. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>if the capsule becomes inflamed and sickened, it has the

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<v Speaker 2>ability to compress the breast implant in a way it

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<v Speaker 2>can't compress other like fake things in your body because

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<v Speaker 2>it's soft. And so what ends up happening is your

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<v Speaker 2>capsule can make your breast implant firm. That's the first stage.

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<v Speaker 2>It can make it look weird, that's the next stage,

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<v Speaker 2>and then it could also make it hurt, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>the final stage of capsular contracture.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, this used to.

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<v Speaker 2>Be much more common. You know, twenty years ago the

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<v Speaker 2>rates were fourteen and some of the fourteen percent of

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<v Speaker 2>patients in some of the older studies, newer studies, because

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<v Speaker 2>we know how to prevent it in a lot of patients,

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<v Speaker 2>it's about one percent in cosmetic patients, which is a

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<v Speaker 2>huge improvement for women and so basically, when you have

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<v Speaker 2>this tight scar tissue, like I said, not only does

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<v Speaker 2>it look weird and seals yucky, it can really hurt you.

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<v Speaker 2>And the other unfortunate thing about cancer contracture is we

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<v Speaker 2>have now identified an exceedingly rare cancer, but it's still

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<v Speaker 2>a cancer that can come from long standing contractures, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's called a breast and planet associated swaymouth cell. And

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<v Speaker 2>we've known for years that sway miss cells come from

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<v Speaker 2>areas of chronic inflammation like stolach ulcerers in burn wounds,

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<v Speaker 2>and now we know chronic inflammation around breast implants can

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<v Speaker 2>cause cancer too. So it's actually a really significant problem

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<v Speaker 2>that what women need to.

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<v Speaker 1>Take care of. Yeah, I think that's interesting. And I

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<v Speaker 1>do remember, obviously, like I have this life before I

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<v Speaker 1>ever worked in pathology, and then working in pathology, so

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<v Speaker 1>I just have totally different opinions on everything. And I

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<v Speaker 1>remember some of my friends saying they're going to get

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<v Speaker 1>breast implants and they're in their early twenties, and I

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<v Speaker 1>would think, like, you know, you're going to have to

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<v Speaker 1>get them replaced a couple more times in your life

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<v Speaker 1>when you're a sixty year old grandmam or you're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>feel like getting your breast implants replaced. And I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>that with other things like IUDs and stuff like getting

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<v Speaker 1>them from eighty year old women that just never got

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<v Speaker 1>the last one taken out, that you just don't feel

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<v Speaker 1>like dealing with it anymore when you get older, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, just so many complications seen with any foreign

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<v Speaker 1>bodies is just a thing. I've even gotten, like the

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<v Speaker 1>old school silicone implants that have leaked in a capsule

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<v Speaker 1>that are just sticky glue everywhere, and it's just terrible.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's good to hear that the technology is improving.

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<v Speaker 1>I do see on your website you have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of before and afters of implant removals. And are these

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<v Speaker 1>people getting them removed and not getting them replaced or

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<v Speaker 1>is it a swap out. It's a combination.

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<v Speaker 2>And in general, most patients these days that I see

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<v Speaker 2>for implants, they want their implants out. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>a combination of reasons. You know, the esthetic is very

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<v Speaker 2>different today than it was twenty thirty years ago, and

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<v Speaker 2>so women when they were in their twenties got very large,

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<v Speaker 2>disproportionate breast implants and that doesn't age well with you

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<v Speaker 2>in general. When you're yeah, you can wear really tight

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<v Speaker 2>things that show your figure out and you know, enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>those large breast implants. But women when they're older don't

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<v Speaker 2>love to do that usually, and so for things to

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<v Speaker 2>fit the top, it doesn't fit the bottom, and it

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<v Speaker 2>makes you appear larger than you are, and it's also uncomfortable.

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<v Speaker 2>So a lot of women have kind of aged out

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<v Speaker 2>of their breasted liss. There's also a population of patients

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<v Speaker 2>who just didn't realize there was maintenance, and they're like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to deal with this, just get them

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<v Speaker 2>out of me, and I want to be done with this.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want my body and I don't want to

0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:52.559
<v Speaker 1>have to watch anything.

0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.600
<v Speaker 2>And then there's also patients that are that are a

0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.760
<v Speaker 2>smaller percentage of my implant removals that just they think

0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.880
<v Speaker 2>they're implants are causing health concerns and so for that

0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.120
<v Speaker 2>reason they want them removed. All right, So let's touch

0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.680
<v Speaker 2>on that a little bit more. I think you're referring

0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.840
<v Speaker 2>to breast implant illness. It's a thing that's been really

0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.199
<v Speaker 2>popular over the past.

0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Ten fifteen years. I guess you would say, what is

0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:21.600
<v Speaker 1>that has that been scientifically proven to be a real thing.

0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Yet is that something that you believe is a thing.

0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.600
<v Speaker 1>So I absolutely believe it's a thing. We don't have

0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.679
<v Speaker 1>a lot of good data explaining it, if that's what

0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.040
<v Speaker 1>she means. So basically, you know, the kind.

0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.520
<v Speaker 2>Of the history of this problem is that in you know,

0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.880
<v Speaker 2>the nineties, women were saying, Hey, I think I'm getting

0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.440
<v Speaker 2>sick for my implants, and the lawsuit started flying and

0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.800
<v Speaker 2>the FDA shut the whole thing down, pulled them from

0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:44.840
<v Speaker 2>the market, and there was, you know, more than a

0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.800
<v Speaker 2>decade of additional testing on them. But what we what

0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.240
<v Speaker 2>we know is that some women just don't feel well

0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.600
<v Speaker 2>and get sick and get symptoms with breast implants. There

0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.520
<v Speaker 2>has now been over one hundred and fifty symptoms associated

0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.040
<v Speaker 2>with breast implants, and there's just no disease, no single

0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:07.000
<v Speaker 2>disease that has that variety of symptoms, and so we

0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.959
<v Speaker 2>just don't understand what's going on. And so for years,

0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:16.040
<v Speaker 2>plastic surgeons, mostly men, we're telling patients you're crazy, get

0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.040
<v Speaker 2>a boyfriend, you know, like stupid things like that, and

0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.000
<v Speaker 2>so women became very distrustful of the plastic surgery community,

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 2>and this, unfortunately allowed people to pray them, and so

0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.560
<v Speaker 2>there became this big community of women with their you know,

0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.559
<v Speaker 2>special experts with no scientific data to support what they're doing,

0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 2>recommending a variety of surgeries like removing the implant with

0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.720
<v Speaker 2>the capsule tissue in one piece and things of that nature.

0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.080
<v Speaker 2>And so in recent years as a community, and I

0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.240
<v Speaker 2>think this is a very seamal driven think because a

0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.040
<v Speaker 2>lot of the head rees are the big researchers on

0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.760
<v Speaker 2>these studies or women, We said, hey, we need to

0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:53.360
<v Speaker 2>figure this out.

0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:54.120
<v Speaker 1>This is a real thing.

0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Women aren't crazy, they're not stupid, and we can't let

0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.560
<v Speaker 2>these people pray on them, doing non evidence based things

0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 2>to them.

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.040
<v Speaker 1>So there's been some studies.

0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 2>Now and what we know we don't know what it is,

0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.960
<v Speaker 2>but what we know is that women with breast implants

0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 2>don't have higher heavy metal concentrations in their tissue. We've

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.400
<v Speaker 2>tested them now in studies against women who have never

0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.880
<v Speaker 2>had implants. It doesn't appear to be autoimmune. We've looked

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:22.240
<v Speaker 2>at autoimmune markers in these patient populations. We now know

0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.440
<v Speaker 2>that removing implants and women who believe their implants are

0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.200
<v Speaker 2>making them ill, about two thirds get better. So we

0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.200
<v Speaker 2>know that implant removal is the right thing to do

0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.520
<v Speaker 2>in this population. We also know that removing the capsule

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.200
<v Speaker 2>tissue does not increase their chance of getting better, and

0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 2>this has been shown in several studies in several countries

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.280
<v Speaker 2>now in good studies with control groups, you know, et cetera.

0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 2>So we're learning. We don't know enough, and so the

0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:50.600
<v Speaker 2>research is ongoing. We also know it's not silicone because

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 2>women with saline implants that don't have silicones found in

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.640
<v Speaker 2>their capsules have equals sometimes higher rates of breast implant

0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:02.720
<v Speaker 2>illness symptoms. We don't know enough, and so we're continuing

0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.120
<v Speaker 2>to study this entity. I think, you know, I take

0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:06.760
<v Speaker 2>care of.

0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 1>My practice is primarily.

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Breast you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds

0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 2>of women a year, and it is not something that

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.400
<v Speaker 2>is common. And it's in those groups they believe it

0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:17.760
<v Speaker 2>is because it is a self selected group and so

0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 2>those patients find each other. But in the general population,

0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:22.760
<v Speaker 2>a vast majority of women in THISS has shown in

0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.680
<v Speaker 2>studies as well, are happy with their breast inness. So

0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I think it's like any risks when you have a device,

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.120
<v Speaker 2>you need to understand that this is a possibility, and

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.240
<v Speaker 2>you need to choose a surgeon who will believe you,

0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.160
<v Speaker 2>trust you, and help you through it if you do

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:35.359
<v Speaker 2>develop problems.

0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.680
<v Speaker 1>This is really interesting to me because when you're doing

0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.680
<v Speaker 1>the studies, is it because some of the symptoms I

0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:47.400
<v Speaker 1>feel overlapped with something like perimenopause and stuff like I'm

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.600
<v Speaker 1>like at that age now that I'm going through, like

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.640
<v Speaker 1>just feel like a lot of things are changing with

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 1>my body, and if I had implants, I'd be like,

0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, that has to be it. It's that's

0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.200
<v Speaker 1>what's causing me to have this problem. So you are

0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.880
<v Speaker 1>testing groups of people that don't have implants versus implants

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:08.080
<v Speaker 1>and seeing that there is a correlation with the implant

0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.400
<v Speaker 1>versus just like changes of life as you get older.

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a lot of overlap with the symptoms of

0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 2>women with symptoms from their breast implants, where the new

0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.480
<v Speaker 2>terminology is SSBI systemic symptoms from breast implants, And that

0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.800
<v Speaker 2>makes all of the studies and the diagnosis even more confusing,

0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 2>and so patients will often come to us. There's been

0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.640
<v Speaker 2>some studies that have shown when influencers are prominent, people

0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 2>with big followings discussed that they have symptoms from their

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.160
<v Speaker 2>breast implants and remove them. That requests for implant removals

0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.520
<v Speaker 2>go up significantly in plastic surgery offices. So there's a

0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of awareness about this now online where there wasn't before.

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.680
<v Speaker 2>And so it's really important as a patient and doctors

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:48.800
<v Speaker 2>taking care of patients that you don't jump to the

0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.560
<v Speaker 2>conclusion like you said, that it's the breast implants, because

0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of different medical problems, some of which

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.680
<v Speaker 2>are serious and required treatment that can cause similar symptoms,

0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.320
<v Speaker 2>and so these patients deserve the same cautious, evidence based

0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.040
<v Speaker 2>care that we give every patient that comes into our office.

0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 1>So when you take a breast implant out, is it

0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:13.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of like a deflated balloon almost, that you have

0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.879
<v Speaker 1>to do a most reconstructive surgery because the skin is

0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.760
<v Speaker 1>stretched out where for so many years when they had

0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:20.440
<v Speaker 1>an implant.

0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, And it's so implants do a very characteristic thing,

0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.919
<v Speaker 2>So they are the most projected in the middle and

0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:28.919
<v Speaker 2>then they kind of fall off to the sides, and

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.320
<v Speaker 2>so they stretch the skin and tissue and thin it

0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.400
<v Speaker 2>the most in the middle of your breast, right under

0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.160
<v Speaker 2>your nipple, and then less and less. And so when

0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 2>you take your inplant out, your breast is going to

0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.879
<v Speaker 2>be wider than it started. There's kind of a mountain

0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.439
<v Speaker 2>range of breast tissue and then often a flat or

0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.680
<v Speaker 2>even sulken area in the middle, and so that does

0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.320
<v Speaker 2>require some reconstruction, and it really just depends on the

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.480
<v Speaker 2>individual patient. The skin, believe it or not, just think

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.399
<v Speaker 2>of pregnancy will retract if you just give it time,

0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 2>and so it's often a good idea to not do

0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.439
<v Speaker 2>too much at the time of the removal and just

0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.440
<v Speaker 2>see what your body's gonna do, because it can save

0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:06.960
<v Speaker 2>yourself having a lift later.

0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's really interesting. One thing that I want to

0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 1>note that you just mentioned was about male doctors kind

0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.000
<v Speaker 1>of telling women that they were crazy, which is a

0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.119
<v Speaker 1>common theme that we hear about all the time on

0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.760
<v Speaker 1>my Instagram and in the gross room and on this podcast.

0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:26.160
<v Speaker 1>But I know from your website that you said that

0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:31.680
<v Speaker 1>only fifteen percent of cosmetic surgeons are actually female, which

0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.920
<v Speaker 1>I think is kind of is kind of ironic considering

0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:41.200
<v Speaker 1>most mostly women get cosmetic procedures. Correct, there's more women

0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.919
<v Speaker 1>that get them than male. Yeah, so why do you

0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:44.400
<v Speaker 1>think that.

0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.560
<v Speaker 2>Is Surgery is still to this day a very male

0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:52.000
<v Speaker 2>dominated field, and I think things are changing. You know,

0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.920
<v Speaker 2>our medical school classes across the country are over fifty

0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:01.000
<v Speaker 2>percent women. Now, surgical residencies the numbers women are better represented,

0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.000
<v Speaker 2>but we are still not there yet. And so as

0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.160
<v Speaker 2>the years go on, we are going to get closer

0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.919
<v Speaker 2>and closer to things being equal, but as of right.

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:10.439
<v Speaker 1>Now, it is not.

0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 2>And the studies with women in surgery in general show

0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 2>that our outcomes are superior. And men get very upset

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:21.520
<v Speaker 2>about this. I tell them don't, because it's not. Women

0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 2>are inherently better at being a surgeon. We have qualities

0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.960
<v Speaker 2>that make our patients do better, and instead of looking

0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.720
<v Speaker 2>at it like some kind of slap in the face,

0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.880
<v Speaker 2>look at it as a learning opportunity. You know, one

0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.840
<v Speaker 2>of the big series is that women who go through

0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, medicine have the quality of good communication because

0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 2>women have great communication skills. So that means that we're

0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.960
<v Speaker 2>educating our patients about what to expect complications, we are

0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:53.879
<v Speaker 2>educating them how to behave when they leave the hospital,

0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.320
<v Speaker 2>and that leads to less complications, less returns to the hospital,

0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.359
<v Speaker 2>and those kind of improvements in their outcomes. So I

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.800
<v Speaker 2>think it's similar when I talk to my male colleagues

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.760
<v Speaker 2>about how when you look at the data for physicians

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.879
<v Speaker 2>of color versus white physicians and caring for patients of color,

0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.320
<v Speaker 2>they have superior outcomes. And I don't lose my marbles

0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:13.280
<v Speaker 2>and go, no, you don't.

0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:15.120
<v Speaker 1>I immediately become.

0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Curious and I want to know why, why are you

0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:22.679
<v Speaker 2>getting better outcomes with patients who are the same culture, background,

0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.120
<v Speaker 2>ethnic groups you? And that is something that I think

0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.080
<v Speaker 2>we all can work from each other. And that's why

0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.640
<v Speaker 2>diversity in medicine is so important.

0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I always think

0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.040
<v Speaker 1>about that with just men in general, Like you just

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.160
<v Speaker 1>will never understand what it's like to feel shitty for

0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.159
<v Speaker 1>a week of the month because you have your period,

0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.919
<v Speaker 1>Like your body feels good all the time. Ours doesn't,

0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.080
<v Speaker 1>And there's all this it's not even just like physical

0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 1>pain that you feel when you're going through your monthly cycle,

0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.399
<v Speaker 1>but also all of the change in hormones and the

0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:58.440
<v Speaker 1>emotions and everything, and it's almost like you just can't

0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.280
<v Speaker 1>talk to somebody sometimes it does have a similar life

0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 1>experience as you. You you can, but you can't sometimes.

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.919
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, so that's really important. That's why I

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.920
<v Speaker 1>always prefer having I would prefer having like a female.

0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.520
<v Speaker 1>They when you call to make your gynocologists appointment, they

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.520
<v Speaker 1>say do you want to mail or female doctor? And

0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 1>sometimes I feel like, well they might understand more what

0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:31.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm going through that that's just something that I've noticed. Hey, guys,

0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:33.840
<v Speaker 1>this episode is brought to you by the Gross Room.

0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:38.280
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0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:03.359
<v Speaker 1>grossroom dot com for more info and sign up. Okay,

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 1>let's get into some juicy stuff. Have you so obviously

0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:13.440
<v Speaker 1>you've seen such crazy surgeries people have had, and oftentimes

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.520
<v Speaker 1>I think, like, what surgeon would even do this surgery

0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.639
<v Speaker 1>on a person? It seems almost unethical to me. Have

0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.959
<v Speaker 1>you ever had people come in and ask for something

0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.040
<v Speaker 1>so outrageous and you've had to tell them though?

0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.399
<v Speaker 2>And that actually happens on a regular basis, And so

0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.399
<v Speaker 2>I think with social media and the internet being what

0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:35.840
<v Speaker 2>it is. People have access to a lot of information,

0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:40.160
<v Speaker 2>and patients often have this idea that surgery can make

0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:42.200
<v Speaker 2>you look any way you want. So they come in

0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:44.200
<v Speaker 2>in the it's almost like a drive through where they're

0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:47.080
<v Speaker 2>at a fast food restaurant. They're like, I want this, this, this, this, this,

0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.680
<v Speaker 2>and they have a bunch of of sings that they want.

0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:52.000
<v Speaker 2>And so my job is not only just to be

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.320
<v Speaker 2>a practicing surgeon who does the surgery. I need to

0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:57.960
<v Speaker 2>educate them and help them and we make a decision

0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:00.600
<v Speaker 2>together about what the best course of action is. So yes,

0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:04.480
<v Speaker 2>I say no all the time, the unfortunate reality of life.

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:06.359
<v Speaker 2>And I tell patients this when they come into my

0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:08.639
<v Speaker 2>office and I can see in their eyes they're going

0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.920
<v Speaker 2>to go somewhere else. If you wave a credit card around,

0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.480
<v Speaker 2>someone will take it. And so what you want in

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:17.760
<v Speaker 2>a surgeon is not someone who just will take your

0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:20.080
<v Speaker 2>credit card and give you anything you ask for, because

0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.200
<v Speaker 2>that is no one should ever want that. You don't

0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:24.879
<v Speaker 2>want a yes n'am. You want someone who will be

0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:28.720
<v Speaker 2>honest with you and help you through decisions instead of

0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:31.360
<v Speaker 2>number one making them for you or number two allowing

0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:35.040
<v Speaker 2>you to make decisions with no input especially when they're

0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.879
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily a great idea.

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:42.879
<v Speaker 1>So you see people all the time that have normal concerns,

0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:45.959
<v Speaker 1>like their breasts are sagging or something after childbirth, and

0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:48.879
<v Speaker 1>that's and then I feel like there's this other line

0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:52.080
<v Speaker 1>of people that have something called body dysmorphia when they

0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:56.399
<v Speaker 1>look in the mirror and they're not seeing what everyone

0:23:56.480 --> 0:24:00.720
<v Speaker 1>else is seeing kind of thing. So, do you have

0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:04.920
<v Speaker 1>some kind of ethical obligation? I know you're saying other doctors,

0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:07.280
<v Speaker 1>if they take a credit card, they'll do it, but

0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:10.440
<v Speaker 1>just from your board, certification and everything, is there some

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:13.560
<v Speaker 1>kind of I don't know where you would exactly draw

0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:17.200
<v Speaker 1>that line, but I've seen women get in these insane

0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:21.320
<v Speaker 1>size implants and then them rupturing and just looking at it, thinking,

0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:23.879
<v Speaker 1>how could a surgeon ever look at this woman and

0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:26.760
<v Speaker 1>think that this was this was going to be safe

0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:29.119
<v Speaker 1>for her. You're putting her in a dangerous situation and

0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.080
<v Speaker 1>she doesn't even really realize it as much as the

0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:35.920
<v Speaker 1>surgeon would. So do you have some kind of ethics

0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:38.360
<v Speaker 1>or is it just to your discretion? Like you could

0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:39.240
<v Speaker 1>do whatever you want.

0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Basically, it's really to your discretion. It's you know, it's hard,

0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:46.640
<v Speaker 2>you know what I learned is we would say people

0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:48.959
<v Speaker 2>do things in poor taste or good taste, but I

0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:50.879
<v Speaker 2>think that there's really not good or bad taste.

0:24:50.880 --> 0:24:51.639
<v Speaker 1>There's just taste.

0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:54.439
<v Speaker 2>And so some people have a taste for things that

0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:59.160
<v Speaker 2>are very extreme, and with that taste becomes more problems

0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:02.880
<v Speaker 2>in complication. And I think that some of these patients

0:25:02.920 --> 0:25:06.920
<v Speaker 2>who take it to an extreme, they have something from

0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:10.600
<v Speaker 2>a mental illness standpoint going on that is leeting them there. Now,

0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:12.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it's true. Body dysmorphia. You know,

0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:15.760
<v Speaker 2>body dysmorphia is a real diagnosis that it gets abused

0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:18.359
<v Speaker 2>by the media either like Kim Kardashie has body doesswork.

0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:21.680
<v Speaker 2>It's not body dysmorphia. Body dysmorphia isn't someone choosing something

0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:24.359
<v Speaker 2>for their body that you don't like. Body dysmorphia is

0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:27.119
<v Speaker 2>someone who has a hyperfixation on a body part. They

0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.640
<v Speaker 2>spend an hour to two hours more a day trying

0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:32.600
<v Speaker 2>to camouflage it, staring at it, worrying about it, and

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 2>their concerns are really out of proportion to what's happening

0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:41.000
<v Speaker 2>in reality. These patients that do repeated surgeries, extreme surgeries

0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:43.560
<v Speaker 2>to their own detriment is a different issue, and I

0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:45.720
<v Speaker 2>actually don't really know. It would be interesting talk to

0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:49.760
<v Speaker 2>as psychologists or psychiatrist about what they think about these people.

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:52.480
<v Speaker 2>But I think you do have an ethical obligation not

0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:57.159
<v Speaker 2>to harm people, and you are objectively harming people. And

0:25:57.480 --> 0:26:00.440
<v Speaker 2>no matter how much someone tells you they understand risk,

0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:03.720
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to be part of that risk. So

0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 2>if someone comes in and they're willing to do something

0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:08.639
<v Speaker 2>that could be petitionally fatal or have a bad outcome,

0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:12.120
<v Speaker 2>or change their life trajectory for the worst, you don't

0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:13.920
<v Speaker 2>have to be part of that. They can have that

0:26:14.440 --> 0:26:16.480
<v Speaker 2>and want that, and you don't have to be part

0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:18.320
<v Speaker 2>of it. And so, you know, I think all of

0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:20.880
<v Speaker 2>us should be saying no to people if we think

0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:22.720
<v Speaker 2>they're harming themselves or their bodies.

0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:28.040
<v Speaker 1>So, speaking of extreme plastic surgery, there's been this this

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:30.960
<v Speaker 1>one TikTok account that's been rotating the past couple of

0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:32.720
<v Speaker 1>weeks of this guy. I don't know if you sud

0:26:32.840 --> 0:26:33.160
<v Speaker 1>to him.

0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I get tagged at it five times a day

0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:42.520
<v Speaker 2>for my followers. If it's wild. I have like I'm

0:26:42.520 --> 0:26:46.399
<v Speaker 2>a weird blastic surgeon because I struggle a lot with

0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:48.600
<v Speaker 2>some of the things we do. I have a young daughter,

0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:52.200
<v Speaker 2>and I think I have no problem with people making

0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:54.879
<v Speaker 2>decisions to alter their bodies in ways that bring them joy.

0:26:54.920 --> 0:26:58.080
<v Speaker 2>But I think when you're trying to erase who you

0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:01.080
<v Speaker 2>are and become something or so different, it makes me

0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:04.920
<v Speaker 2>uncomfortable and it gives me pause. And this plastic surgeon

0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:10.440
<v Speaker 2>is doing of surgery on people, and the incisions are

0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:14.000
<v Speaker 2>not placed well the patients, Like if you see they're

0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:16.919
<v Speaker 2>not moving their faces properly in the after photos like

0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:21.880
<v Speaker 2>this is very extreme facial changes and there's no long

0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:24.480
<v Speaker 2>term photos, and there's people in the comments saying like

0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:26.280
<v Speaker 2>the photos are great, nobody would go to them and

0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:28.760
<v Speaker 2>like where are they? Then, if you have great six

0:27:28.800 --> 0:27:30.680
<v Speaker 2>month photos, you would put those up. You wouldn't just

0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:34.320
<v Speaker 2>put immediate post off photos like he does. So it's

0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:39.200
<v Speaker 2>very concerning. And you know, we're seeing more and more

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:42.600
<v Speaker 2>extreme things like this where people are altering their bodies

0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:45.560
<v Speaker 2>in ways that are not present in nature, and I

0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:48.320
<v Speaker 2>don't think this is an area that we should be

0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 2>jumping into.

0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:53.199
<v Speaker 1>For my feel I honestly have an opinion about that

0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:57.320
<v Speaker 1>particular guy that those people are either they're doing it

0:27:57.400 --> 0:28:01.040
<v Speaker 1>either against their will or they're getting paid an insane

0:28:01.040 --> 0:28:03.560
<v Speaker 1>amount of money. The reason that I think that is

0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 1>because when you look at their before pictures, they don't

0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:09.440
<v Speaker 1>look like some of them. They don't look like they

0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:11.560
<v Speaker 1>ever cared about what they looked like a day in

0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:14.639
<v Speaker 1>their life. And then all of a sudden, you know

0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.600
<v Speaker 1>what I mean, Like, it's not a person that's had

0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:19.920
<v Speaker 1>multiple face lifts and wants to get more and more

0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:23.200
<v Speaker 1>and more. It's like people that look seventy five years

0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:26.560
<v Speaker 1>old that never had a surgery or anything in their life,

0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:28.359
<v Speaker 1>and all of a sudden they want to do something

0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:33.600
<v Speaker 1>this extreme. Is he is he almost doing the procedure.

0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:37.359
<v Speaker 1>Looks like he's almost doing like a face transplant on

0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:40.400
<v Speaker 1>the person, like completely removing their face and then putting

0:28:40.440 --> 0:28:42.360
<v Speaker 1>it back on. It really does.

0:28:42.400 --> 0:28:45.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he's got a hairline incision that's placed too low.

0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:47.560
<v Speaker 2>He always had incisions in front of the ears that

0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:50.840
<v Speaker 2>go behind, so a full facelift. I it's I don't

0:28:50.840 --> 0:28:53.200
<v Speaker 2>know exactly what he's doing. He's you know, he's got

0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:57.040
<v Speaker 2>very exaggerated kantapexies where he's pulling the eyes up very

0:28:57.320 --> 0:28:58.960
<v Speaker 2>very aggressively at the sides.

0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:03.080
<v Speaker 1>It's their ears looking sane. Did you see their ears

0:29:03.080 --> 0:29:05.560
<v Speaker 1>are like flipped upside down. I know, I was like,

0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:06.480
<v Speaker 1>what is this guy doing?

0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:09.680
<v Speaker 2>I'd be curious to find out what exactly he's doing

0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:12.920
<v Speaker 2>and then you know, run screaming from it. Never do

0:29:13.000 --> 0:29:15.720
<v Speaker 2>anything near that in my entire life because it's it's

0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:16.520
<v Speaker 2>so unfortunate.

0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:19.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, he's not practicing in America. I don't believe either.

0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:24.720
<v Speaker 1>So there's that I don't know what standards wherever he's living.

0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:28.040
<v Speaker 1>But there's also some other ones that I've seen about women,

0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:33.320
<v Speaker 1>like removing their ribs to have a trimmer wasteline, and

0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:37.120
<v Speaker 1>that is something that's done here correct here.

0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:40.120
<v Speaker 2>And there's a plastic surgeon. He's pretty prominent on social

0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:42.200
<v Speaker 2>media and he's a real plastic surgeon. He doesn't I

0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:45.080
<v Speaker 2>you know. To me, it's I don't ever want to

0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:50.200
<v Speaker 2>do something that is worry. Cosmetic surgeries have amazing psychologic impact.

0:29:50.200 --> 0:29:52.840
<v Speaker 2>They make people feel good about themselves and enhance their lives.

0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:55.840
<v Speaker 2>But I never want to do a surgery that puts

0:29:55.880 --> 0:29:58.440
<v Speaker 2>you at risk from a health standpoint. If I can,

0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:00.520
<v Speaker 2>if I can, and people are just say President one

0:30:00.560 --> 0:30:04.120
<v Speaker 2>not is relaxed. When you remove rids, you are now

0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:07.320
<v Speaker 2>taking away protection from your livery or spleen. Your ribs

0:30:07.360 --> 0:30:10.360
<v Speaker 2>have a job, right, They're doing things, and so I

0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:14.560
<v Speaker 2>don't love that idea. You know, you can ask yourself

0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:16.640
<v Speaker 2>other things we do have potential risk, but I think

0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:19.560
<v Speaker 2>that's a potential risk I don't really want to delve into.

0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:24.920
<v Speaker 1>So, speaking of these famous social media plastic surgeons, I

0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:30.720
<v Speaker 1>actually went to one doctor Miami or Michael salshollower I love.

0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:35.120
<v Speaker 1>I loved my experience with him. I went there, his

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:40.040
<v Speaker 1>office was super professional. Everyone that worked there. It almost

0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:42.800
<v Speaker 1>was like what he was portraying on the internet and

0:30:42.800 --> 0:30:46.040
<v Speaker 1>what was happening there was just so professional. It was

0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:50.080
<v Speaker 1>just it was really it was just a great experience overall.

0:30:50.480 --> 0:30:53.160
<v Speaker 1>But I've also heard horror story. So one of the

0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:56.440
<v Speaker 1>news stories that we talked about was Jackie Oh. She

0:30:56.560 --> 0:31:00.000
<v Speaker 1>had died from having a brazil like a Brazilian butler

0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:03.760
<v Speaker 1>slash Mommy makeover. And apparently she went to one of

0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.440
<v Speaker 1>these clinics that are pushed all the time in Miami,

0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:09.840
<v Speaker 1>specifically that are pumping out these Brazilian butt lifts for

0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:14.520
<v Speaker 1>really inexpensive and they're doing multiple procedures a day. And

0:31:14.680 --> 0:31:19.160
<v Speaker 1>there's also a surgeon, her name was doctor Roxy, who

0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:22.640
<v Speaker 1>had just lost her license right from doing videos because

0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:24.920
<v Speaker 1>they were able to prove that a patient had complications

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:28.080
<v Speaker 1>because she was kind of it looks like she was

0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:30.920
<v Speaker 1>doing liposuction and staring at the camera and not even

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:33.880
<v Speaker 1>looking where she was putting the canula. How do you

0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 1>feel the internet has both helped and hurt your field?

0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:41.040
<v Speaker 2>So, you know, there is it's a hard it's a

0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:41.640
<v Speaker 2>hard subject.

0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:43.680
<v Speaker 1>You know. I'm on social media and I enjoy it.

0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.680
<v Speaker 2>I try to focus on educating patients and I do

0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:48.680
<v Speaker 2>silly things and funny stuff here and there, but I

0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:51.320
<v Speaker 2>try to not do it with I do not do

0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>it with patients involved. I think that social media is

0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:58.840
<v Speaker 2>a very powerful tool for patient education. It's a powerful

0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:02.160
<v Speaker 2>tool for driving patience into your practice. From a business standpoint,

0:32:02.800 --> 0:32:06.719
<v Speaker 2>the problem is is that not every person handles social

0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:11.040
<v Speaker 2>media well. And so there are plastic surgeons with monster

0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:16.840
<v Speaker 2>followings that are wonderful at social media and they also

0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:19.280
<v Speaker 2>maintain their ethics and take good care of patients. And

0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.000
<v Speaker 2>then there's also plastic surgeons that don't have that skill,

0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:24.200
<v Speaker 2>and doctor Roxy seems to be one of those people.

0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:26.840
<v Speaker 2>And to be clear, she didn't lose her license because

0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 2>of social media. That made the news stories more solacious.

0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:33.040
<v Speaker 2>She lost her license because of horrific patient care. And

0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:35.160
<v Speaker 2>I think that needs to be clear, is that you

0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:38.000
<v Speaker 2>know she from I don't know her personally, but I

0:32:38.040 --> 0:32:39.800
<v Speaker 2>know people who train with her and know her. And

0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:42.560
<v Speaker 2>she was a wonderful surgeon and did wonderful work in

0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:46.200
<v Speaker 2>her residency and in her younger doctor life, was very

0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:48.640
<v Speaker 2>well respected and liked and even in her early life.

0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:51.080
<v Speaker 2>And I think she's someone who just seeings that social

0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:55.120
<v Speaker 2>media changed how she cared for patients. And that is

0:32:55.760 --> 0:32:58.480
<v Speaker 2>if that is you, the following is not worth it.

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 2>If you are someone like to you, who is an ethical,

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:05.640
<v Speaker 2>wonderful surgeon, he's funny with a huge following, then yeah,

0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:08.960
<v Speaker 2>social media is wonderful for you. But sometimes it's hard

0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:13.600
<v Speaker 2>to self reflect and though is this helping me or

0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:17.160
<v Speaker 2>is this hurting me? In doctor Roxy's standpoint, it really

0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:20.080
<v Speaker 2>obviously hurt her because now she has lost a career

0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:21.960
<v Speaker 2>that she worked. Like I said, how long I worked?

0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:24.400
<v Speaker 2>That fell long she worked to get there. She lost

0:33:24.480 --> 0:33:27.880
<v Speaker 2>all of her youth training in plastic surgery here practice anymore,

0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:32.880
<v Speaker 2>which is awful. It's it's it's just it's it's a tragedy.

0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:34.960
<v Speaker 2>All around. It's a tragedy for her family, It's a

0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:39.400
<v Speaker 2>tragedy ten times for her patience families, and it should

0:33:39.440 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 2>have never happened in social media. Was certainly to see

0:33:41.840 --> 0:33:47.600
<v Speaker 2>that that grewm that situation. I think we plastic surgeons,

0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:51.920
<v Speaker 2>we have unfortunately allowed cosmetic surgeons to take the lead

0:33:52.400 --> 0:33:55.719
<v Speaker 2>on social media, and it's hurt our profession. It's allowed

0:33:55.760 --> 0:34:01.520
<v Speaker 2>people who aren't properly trained in plastic surgery to develop

0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:04.720
<v Speaker 2>reputations that potentially harm people without proper training. I think

0:34:04.760 --> 0:34:07.360
<v Speaker 2>that we should have jumped on it sooner, But we

0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:11.839
<v Speaker 2>do need some kind of better ethics or understanding for

0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:14.520
<v Speaker 2>how we should behave because I don't think all of

0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:16.600
<v Speaker 2>us get it right. Yeah.

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:19.440
<v Speaker 1>I think in general, the social media thing kind of

0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:23.000
<v Speaker 1>creeped up on everyone, and everyone just jumped on it,

0:34:23.040 --> 0:34:25.960
<v Speaker 1>and now we're all stepping back and saying, wow, maybe

0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:28.000
<v Speaker 1>it's not a good idea to post pictures of our

0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:32.920
<v Speaker 1>kids online and just get actually giving training to kids

0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:36.560
<v Speaker 1>in high school just because you could ruin your life

0:34:36.680 --> 0:34:39.520
<v Speaker 1>just by posting things that might come up later and everything.

0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:43.560
<v Speaker 1>But I feel like no, especially us, like when I

0:34:43.560 --> 0:34:45.680
<v Speaker 1>didn't even get a phone until I was twenty some

0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:49.160
<v Speaker 1>years old, like a cell phone, you know, social media

0:34:49.560 --> 0:34:52.719
<v Speaker 1>not until I was in my thirties already. So I

0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:56.200
<v Speaker 1>lived a lot of my life not knowing that world

0:34:56.719 --> 0:35:00.319
<v Speaker 1>and then jumping onto it. I was an educator on

0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:03.960
<v Speaker 1>how to handle having that amount of attention and followers

0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:06.480
<v Speaker 1>and stuff within a short period of time, and I

0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:09.120
<v Speaker 1>think that I think a lot of people don't know

0:35:09.120 --> 0:35:13.680
<v Speaker 1>what to do with that either. So, yeah, it's intoxicating.

0:35:13.760 --> 0:35:15.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, you wake up and you have a million

0:35:15.400 --> 0:35:18.160
<v Speaker 2>comments and lights and attention and your followers. Though up,

0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:22.320
<v Speaker 2>I completely understand how that can be something that's intoxicating,

0:35:22.360 --> 0:35:24.840
<v Speaker 2>but you have to It's it's like an addiction in

0:35:24.880 --> 0:35:27.920
<v Speaker 2>some ways. Right, It's like some people can drink alcohol

0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:30.640
<v Speaker 2>and be fine and other people have that genetics where

0:35:30.719 --> 0:35:33.400
<v Speaker 2>it goes too far. And I think social media is

0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:34.360
<v Speaker 2>a similar problem.

0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree. Okay, have you ever done any surgical

0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:41.239
<v Speaker 1>You don't obviously don't tell us any names, but have

0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:45.000
<v Speaker 1>you ever done any procedures on any celebrities? I for have,

0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:48.640
<v Speaker 1>And that's so that this is interesting to me because

0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.759
<v Speaker 1>I when I worked in the city, we used to

0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:54.480
<v Speaker 1>have we had like people from the Eagles come in

0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:57.080
<v Speaker 1>and the mayor, like all these famous people will come

0:35:57.080 --> 0:36:00.520
<v Speaker 1>into the hospital and they put them in this special

0:36:00.560 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 1>suite and they gave them fake names, Jane Doe, John

0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Doe it was. And we would just get a phone call,

0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:10.640
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna have a frozen section come down on a VIP.

0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:13.759
<v Speaker 1>That was all we knew. They sometimes we wouldn't even

0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:16.799
<v Speaker 1>know the person's name because they're just too afraid that

0:36:17.040 --> 0:36:19.359
<v Speaker 1>it's going to leak to the media somehow that they're

0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:23.440
<v Speaker 1>getting treatment at a hospital. So when you have patients

0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:26.920
<v Speaker 1>that are more VIP, especially when they're not very open

0:36:26.960 --> 0:36:31.319
<v Speaker 1>about getting plastic and cosmetic procedures and things, what do

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:34.960
<v Speaker 1>you do in that circumstance do you have to? I mean,

0:36:35.000 --> 0:36:38.879
<v Speaker 1>I understand HIPPA exists, but people break it all the time, right,

0:36:38.960 --> 0:36:42.719
<v Speaker 1>So how do you ensure that these celebrities can kind

0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:44.880
<v Speaker 1>of come in and out of where you're doing surgery

0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:46.480
<v Speaker 1>and not get caught so to speak.

0:36:47.320 --> 0:36:51.000
<v Speaker 2>So I am well versed in celebrity surgery because I

0:36:51.040 --> 0:36:54.080
<v Speaker 2>treated seer signing. So when I started, when I started

0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:58.040
<v Speaker 2>general surgery at See Your SIGNI we signed a agreement

0:36:58.120 --> 0:37:01.239
<v Speaker 2>this big and they had basically every celebrity was like

0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:03.359
<v Speaker 2>at the time. I'm sure it's different now at higher tech,

0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:07.400
<v Speaker 2>but there was a pager associated with all the celebrity charts,

0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:09.600
<v Speaker 2>and every time they were accessed, someone would check and

0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:12.960
<v Speaker 2>see if it was appropriate access. And you were literally

0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:15.400
<v Speaker 2>fired off a spot at Sedars if they found you

0:37:16.040 --> 0:37:18.400
<v Speaker 2>in a chart. And one of my friends was actually

0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:21.120
<v Speaker 2>that happened to him. He was doing research and he

0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:24.640
<v Speaker 2>properly opened a patient's chart who was a celebrity for

0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:27.520
<v Speaker 2>a project that he was doing, and was immediately fired

0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:28.799
<v Speaker 2>and it took a couple of weeks to get him

0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:30.840
<v Speaker 2>back on staff. So that's how serious theaters sign I

0:37:30.880 --> 0:37:33.600
<v Speaker 2>takes things, which is why you rarely have leaks for Cedars.

0:37:34.320 --> 0:37:38.360
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you that celebrities get some of the worst

0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:41.959
<v Speaker 2>care I've seen in medicine because people do weird shit

0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:45.920
<v Speaker 2>for them, and I decided early on in my career

0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:48.600
<v Speaker 2>that celebrities would not be treated differently. In my practice,

0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:51.520
<v Speaker 2>I do not shut things down. I don't come after hours.

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:53.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't do weird stuff because I want them to

0:37:53.920 --> 0:37:56.200
<v Speaker 2>get the best, high quality care that all of my

0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:58.920
<v Speaker 2>patients get. I don't believe in VIPs, so in my

0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:02.799
<v Speaker 2>personal practice, I don't do anything special for them. Other

0:38:02.880 --> 0:38:05.040
<v Speaker 2>than I will obviously, we change their names often in

0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:07.759
<v Speaker 2>the computer, so they have that as an extra level

0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:11.879
<v Speaker 2>of protection. And we always can accommodate people if they're

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:13.000
<v Speaker 2>trying not.

0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:14.520
<v Speaker 1>To be seen coming in and out of the office.

0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:16.080
<v Speaker 1>But other than that, I don't do.

0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:19.160
<v Speaker 2>A whole lot, which you know, I think celebrities are funny.

0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Some celebrities really really want to be treated differently, and

0:38:21.880 --> 0:38:23.680
<v Speaker 2>they're never going to find a home in my practice,

0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:25.480
<v Speaker 2>and you will find that elsewhere. But I think a

0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:28.480
<v Speaker 2>lot of celebrities actually appreciate being treated like a regular human.

0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:33.200
<v Speaker 1>I huntred percent believe in what you're saying about the

0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:36.560
<v Speaker 1>VIPs getting the worst treatment. I've seen it in real

0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:39.279
<v Speaker 1>life at the hospital for example, Like if they would

0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:41.319
<v Speaker 1>come down and tell us, I don't even know why

0:38:41.360 --> 0:38:43.800
<v Speaker 1>they would tell us that we were getting a VIP specimen,

0:38:43.840 --> 0:38:46.759
<v Speaker 1>because we treat every specimen the same exact way, and

0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:49.520
<v Speaker 1>in fact, we would do things like normal things that

0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:52.759
<v Speaker 1>are considered procedure to do a frozen section on like

0:38:52.800 --> 0:38:56.920
<v Speaker 1>what is appropriate for frozen section versus permanent section, and

0:38:57.239 --> 0:38:59.120
<v Speaker 1>they would be like, oh, we'll just freeze it, and

0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:01.799
<v Speaker 1>we would like maybe we shouldn't do that because we

0:39:01.880 --> 0:39:04.480
<v Speaker 1>might ruin the tissue. And but they want to give

0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:06.319
<v Speaker 1>the answers right then and there. And then when you

0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:09.359
<v Speaker 1>when you skip procedures, that's when things get screwed up.

0:39:09.840 --> 0:39:13.920
<v Speaker 1>And every week in the gross Room, I write about

0:39:13.920 --> 0:39:17.000
<v Speaker 1>celebrity death dissections and high profile death dissections, and I

0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:19.400
<v Speaker 1>really go through their autopsy reports and see, like what

0:39:19.520 --> 0:39:24.799
<v Speaker 1>caused these celebrities to die? And every single time, it's

0:39:24.840 --> 0:39:28.440
<v Speaker 1>because they were getting some kind of extra treatment that

0:39:28.600 --> 0:39:31.799
<v Speaker 1>is not normal protocol, whether it's showing up at their

0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:34.680
<v Speaker 1>house giving them drugs they don't need, whatever it is

0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:38.400
<v Speaker 1>giving them surgeries they don't need. And it's it's just

0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:41.520
<v Speaker 1>interesting that you say that because I have a thing

0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:44.320
<v Speaker 1>that I say, like the VIP treatment is the worst treatment.

0:39:44.719 --> 0:39:47.120
<v Speaker 1>It's it's just really interesting that you see that from

0:39:47.200 --> 0:39:52.400
<v Speaker 1>your perspective as well. Yeah, I've seen plastic surgery, general surgery,

0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:55.640
<v Speaker 1>I've seen it, every specialty. You know, if you are

0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:59.760
<v Speaker 1>a celebrity listening to this, just you want normal, evidence

0:39:59.800 --> 0:40:02.960
<v Speaker 1>based care. You don't want something special, because special is

0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:07.080
<v Speaker 1>never better. Yeah, I one hundred percent agree. I saw

0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:10.359
<v Speaker 1>on your website that you have some other kinds of

0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:15.480
<v Speaker 1>medical professionals working for you, including pas and nurse practitioners.

0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:19.080
<v Speaker 1>I do. That's that's cool. I love. I love to

0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:22.000
<v Speaker 1>hear that because I always you know, some people listening

0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:24.799
<v Speaker 1>to this might right now might say I can't go

0:40:24.920 --> 0:40:28.400
<v Speaker 1>to college for fifteen years or do training for fifteen years,

0:40:28.480 --> 0:40:30.919
<v Speaker 1>But there are lesser degrees you can get and still

0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:34.319
<v Speaker 1>have a place in your field. So what are some

0:40:34.400 --> 0:40:37.239
<v Speaker 1>things that they're able to do in your field and

0:40:37.440 --> 0:40:41.080
<v Speaker 1>what are some of their limitations because of their education? Sure,

0:40:41.320 --> 0:40:44.480
<v Speaker 1>so I shout out to Amy and Christina. Amy is

0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:45.400
<v Speaker 1>my nurse practitioner.

0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:48.239
<v Speaker 2>Christina's my PA, and they are their mind because they're

0:40:48.280 --> 0:40:49.960
<v Speaker 2>part of my team, not because I busness them. People

0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:51.719
<v Speaker 2>always get mad at me on social when I say that,

0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:52.759
<v Speaker 2>but they're both.

0:40:52.680 --> 0:40:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Exceptional and this is what they do in their role.

0:40:55.160 --> 0:40:56.840
<v Speaker 1>So Christina my PA.

0:40:57.680 --> 0:41:00.879
<v Speaker 2>She actually has experienced in the emergency room like you, right,

0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:04.879
<v Speaker 2>I believe, and she did orthopedic surgery before she came

0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:06.800
<v Speaker 2>in worked with me. So her role on my team

0:41:07.000 --> 0:41:10.440
<v Speaker 2>is she hangs out with me for new patient consults

0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:12.960
<v Speaker 2>and helps me take notes to make sure I get

0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:15.759
<v Speaker 2>all the charts correct. She is the queen of my

0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:17.920
<v Speaker 2>preop evaluation. She's the one that will be in the

0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:19.640
<v Speaker 2>room with you for an hour or two hours, however

0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:22.360
<v Speaker 2>long you need, so that you understand clearly the surgery

0:41:22.920 --> 0:41:26.920
<v Speaker 2>and the post op requirements. And then I come in,

0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:29.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, and at the very end, and patients never

0:41:29.239 --> 0:41:32.280
<v Speaker 2>have questions because she's so exceptional and answers everything so well.

0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:35.279
<v Speaker 2>And she assists me in the operating room. So she

0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:38.200
<v Speaker 2>is my first assist in the operating room. And it's

0:41:38.360 --> 0:41:40.800
<v Speaker 2>amazing it surgery is so smooth. When you have a

0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:43.000
<v Speaker 2>good you are only as good as your assistant in

0:41:43.000 --> 0:41:46.440
<v Speaker 2>the operating room. So that's Christina's role. So she doesn't

0:41:46.480 --> 0:41:49.360
<v Speaker 2>perform the surgery by herself. She's assisting me in surgery.

0:41:49.719 --> 0:41:52.480
<v Speaker 2>But so that's really the main limitation. But I think

0:41:52.520 --> 0:41:54.680
<v Speaker 2>she has a really important role. She helps me keep

0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:58.560
<v Speaker 2>my patients safer and she helps me get them out

0:41:58.560 --> 0:42:02.120
<v Speaker 2>of the operating room fast, which is safer for patients.

0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:06.640
<v Speaker 2>And she's just exceptional my nurse practitioner, and this is

0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:08.960
<v Speaker 2>a unique role in my practice. Not many people have this.

0:42:09.160 --> 0:42:11.759
<v Speaker 2>She helps me taking care of patients post up. So

0:42:13.040 --> 0:42:15.879
<v Speaker 2>we have a like an encrypted testing system and we

0:42:16.160 --> 0:42:19.080
<v Speaker 2>hook patients up directly with her, and so she is

0:42:19.120 --> 0:42:23.120
<v Speaker 2>immediately available for them for the first month after surgery

0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:26.160
<v Speaker 2>to help them with anything they're concerned about. And it

0:42:26.280 --> 0:42:28.800
<v Speaker 2>was interesting for me. I think I'm a very good educator,

0:42:28.840 --> 0:42:31.840
<v Speaker 2>and patients would rarely call me at night or after hours,

0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:35.520
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, cause I'm so good, And as

0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 2>soon as we hired Amy, there was a million calls

0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:41.600
<v Speaker 2>and I realized that no matter how friendly, nice and

0:42:41.640 --> 0:42:43.640
<v Speaker 2>lovely I am, there is a power dynamic. I think

0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:47.279
<v Speaker 2>patients are act comfortable bringing concerns to me, and it's

0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:50.560
<v Speaker 2>been really wonderful for patients because they have someone who's

0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:53.480
<v Speaker 2>a little bit separated who can help them with you know,

0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:55.680
<v Speaker 2>why is my dressing have blood on it? You know

0:42:55.800 --> 0:42:58.720
<v Speaker 2>this list looks swollen? Am I supposed to be bruised?

0:42:58.719 --> 0:43:00.160
<v Speaker 2>Here is my leg's supposed to it?

0:43:00.600 --> 0:43:00.759
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Questions they weren't comfortable asking me, They are comfortable asking Amy,

0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:07.319
<v Speaker 2>And then Amy can help alleviate their anxiety because I

0:43:07.320 --> 0:43:09.000
<v Speaker 2>always say anxiety.

0:43:08.520 --> 0:43:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Is the enemy of feelings.

0:43:09.760 --> 0:43:12.600
<v Speaker 2>So both of them have a very important role in

0:43:12.600 --> 0:43:14.920
<v Speaker 2>my practice and they just allow me to take better

0:43:14.960 --> 0:43:19.200
<v Speaker 2>care of patients. Both of them also do some laser

0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:23.320
<v Speaker 2>and aesthetic treatments, so lasers, fillers, botox, that kind of stuff.

0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:26.520
<v Speaker 1>They don't full time do it. We do have a.

0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Nurse practitioner in our practice who does That's all she

0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:32.799
<v Speaker 2>does is non invasive treatments, but the two that I

0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:35.600
<v Speaker 2>primarily work with just dabble in it with my patients

0:43:35.880 --> 0:43:38.160
<v Speaker 2>in addition to other patient care things they do.

0:43:39.160 --> 0:43:42.200
<v Speaker 1>I love that actually, because I because I've been a

0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:46.520
<v Speaker 1>patient before of cosmetic procedure and you always think, like,

0:43:46.719 --> 0:43:49.040
<v Speaker 1>is this normal. I don't, but I would ever want

0:43:49.080 --> 0:43:52.360
<v Speaker 1>to bother the doctor with certain things. And I remember

0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:54.520
<v Speaker 1>when I when I came home from my trip because

0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:56.280
<v Speaker 1>I had to go to Miami to get my surgery.

0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:58.960
<v Speaker 1>And when I came home, I went to pet my cat,

0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:01.040
<v Speaker 1>and my cat bit my hand. I guess she was

0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:02.799
<v Speaker 1>just pissed that I had left her for like a

0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:05.560
<v Speaker 1>week and that was the only time I ever left her,

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:07.840
<v Speaker 1>so she just I don't know what happened, but I

0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:10.680
<v Speaker 1>just went down this rabbit hole of like, oh my god,

0:44:10.840 --> 0:44:13.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm healing from the surgery. What if I get some

0:44:13.680 --> 0:44:16.480
<v Speaker 1>weird bacteria infection in my hand? And I went back

0:44:16.520 --> 0:44:18.800
<v Speaker 1>and forth, and I was like, ah, should I call

0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:20.640
<v Speaker 1>all right, I'll finally call him. And I felt so

0:44:20.760 --> 0:44:24.400
<v Speaker 1>guilty because it was like a Friday night or something terrible,

0:44:24.400 --> 0:44:26.360
<v Speaker 1>and I didn't want to bother them. But so it

0:44:27.160 --> 0:44:30.160
<v Speaker 1>is nice to have to have a person that is

0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:33.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of that you could contact in that kind of

0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:38.000
<v Speaker 1>situation like that you just just from the patient's perspective. Anyway,

0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:41.920
<v Speaker 1>I love I always felt. So. I never did work

0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:44.040
<v Speaker 1>in the eer. I've only worked in the lab, but

0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:46.759
<v Speaker 1>at the entire time that I worked in the lab,

0:44:46.800 --> 0:44:49.520
<v Speaker 1>I went from working in just like clinical lab stuff,

0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:52.840
<v Speaker 1>blood work and everything to pathology. And I had a

0:44:52.920 --> 0:44:57.160
<v Speaker 1>high concentration of working with surgeons all the time because

0:44:57.280 --> 0:45:00.640
<v Speaker 1>of doing frozen sections and doing the gross pathology in

0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:04.680
<v Speaker 1>surgical pathology. And I always found that the best surgeons

0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:08.960
<v Speaker 1>were ones like you who really respect your your co

0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:12.520
<v Speaker 1>workers and the other medical professionals that are working under you,

0:45:12.719 --> 0:45:17.040
<v Speaker 1>and recognize that they're helping you be and they're just

0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:20.000
<v Speaker 1>like a necessory to you being a great surgeon. And

0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:23.480
<v Speaker 1>trust me, there's been times where we've had doctors come

0:45:23.520 --> 0:45:27.359
<v Speaker 1>down and talk because us working in surgical pathology were

0:45:27.400 --> 0:45:30.239
<v Speaker 1>pas too, and they would come down and talk down

0:45:30.320 --> 0:45:34.520
<v Speaker 1>to us and didn't respect their nurses and their pas,

0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:38.320
<v Speaker 1>and it just it just shows in my opinion, who's

0:45:38.360 --> 0:45:40.360
<v Speaker 1>a good surgeon that I would feel like going to,

0:45:40.560 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 1>versus not that thinks that people are below them kind of.

0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:47.799
<v Speaker 1>I've gotten that vibe off of some surgeons before. Oh yeah,

0:45:47.840 --> 0:45:52.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean they're just all of these different roles in medicine.

0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:55.759
<v Speaker 2>We all make the patient experience and outcomes better while

0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:58.239
<v Speaker 2>we work together. And if we work against each other,

0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:00.920
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, all the truth battles are so silly.

0:46:00.920 --> 0:46:03.600
<v Speaker 2>We're so much stronger as a team when we all

0:46:03.880 --> 0:46:06.640
<v Speaker 2>use our talents together to give patients better care.

0:46:07.520 --> 0:46:09.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree with you there. There's just there's just

0:46:09.880 --> 0:46:11.520
<v Speaker 1>some mega egos going on with.

0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:14.399
<v Speaker 2>Some people, there is, and surgery has the majority of them,

0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:14.799
<v Speaker 2>as you know.

0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:18.520
<v Speaker 1>But I love some ct Like there's some surgeons that

0:46:19.520 --> 0:46:22.480
<v Speaker 1>I was that would come downstairs and be like, yo, Nicole,

0:46:22.520 --> 0:46:23.360
<v Speaker 1>what's up? Like that?

0:46:23.520 --> 0:46:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Right?

0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:25.440
<v Speaker 1>They were like so cool? And then I would go

0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:27.239
<v Speaker 1>look them up and I'd be like, holy shit, that

0:46:27.320 --> 0:46:29.720
<v Speaker 1>guy's a big deal. Like I can't believe he's so cool,

0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:32.840
<v Speaker 1>you know. And I I a lot of them that

0:46:32.840 --> 0:46:34.920
<v Speaker 1>that I would go to. I mean, not that I

0:46:35.000 --> 0:46:38.120
<v Speaker 1>have any kind of like kidney problems now, but like,

0:46:38.239 --> 0:46:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I know who I would go to if I did,

0:46:39.960 --> 0:46:42.840
<v Speaker 1>because I'm like that dude was awesome, you know. So

0:46:43.000 --> 0:46:45.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad to hear that you're that you're like that

0:46:45.239 --> 0:46:48.400
<v Speaker 1>and given shout outs to your PA and your nurse practitioners.

0:46:48.400 --> 0:46:52.319
<v Speaker 1>That's really cool. So what's let's hear before we wrap

0:46:52.360 --> 0:46:55.399
<v Speaker 1>this up, Like, what's going on in your life right now?

0:46:55.480 --> 0:46:57.920
<v Speaker 1>You you have kids? You said I do.

0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:01.280
<v Speaker 2>I have two kids. My daughter is and was is eleven.

0:47:01.840 --> 0:47:04.840
<v Speaker 1>That's cool. Yeah, there's they're they're the best.

0:47:04.840 --> 0:47:07.600
<v Speaker 2>It's having kids is the wildest journey because you get

0:47:07.600 --> 0:47:09.919
<v Speaker 2>to watch like things about yourself. You're like, oh my god,

0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:12.560
<v Speaker 2>I do that too, should not do that? And then

0:47:12.640 --> 0:47:14.359
<v Speaker 2>the good things about yourself too you get to see

0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:14.799
<v Speaker 2>in your kids.

0:47:14.800 --> 0:47:15.239
<v Speaker 1>It's wild.

0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:20.280
<v Speaker 2>And I have a hobby. I have Dalmatians, and I

0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:23.280
<v Speaker 2>have gotten into the world of showing and dog sports

0:47:23.360 --> 0:47:26.160
<v Speaker 2>the last that's so cool. And my daughter started doing it,

0:47:26.200 --> 0:47:29.720
<v Speaker 2>so she's I'm doing junior handler or junior showmanship showing

0:47:29.800 --> 0:47:32.160
<v Speaker 2>one of our dogs. So yeah, I mean that's kind

0:47:32.160 --> 0:47:33.880
<v Speaker 2>of what I have. I always have something going on.

0:47:33.880 --> 0:47:35.520
<v Speaker 2>I need, like I like to hyper.

0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Fixate on hobby.

0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:37.839
<v Speaker 2>So I'll probably do this for a couple of years

0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:40.760
<v Speaker 2>until they retire, and then I'll have a new hyperfixation hobby.

0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:44.920
<v Speaker 1>So what you got into the TV world? How did

0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:47.279
<v Speaker 1>that first start? So?

0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:50.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, LA is an interesting place because the second

0:47:50.000 --> 0:47:52.479
<v Speaker 2>I moved back home about nine years ago, you get

0:47:52.520 --> 0:47:54.840
<v Speaker 2>calls three times a week at least I do, people

0:47:55.000 --> 0:47:57.560
<v Speaker 2>trying to hunt around for people potentially on shows.

0:47:57.600 --> 0:47:58.760
<v Speaker 1>And so when.

0:47:58.600 --> 0:48:01.520
<v Speaker 2>I I've been in LA for maybe a year and

0:48:01.600 --> 0:48:03.840
<v Speaker 2>I got a call and they were interested in me

0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:05.759
<v Speaker 2>for a show and they didn't tell me what it was,

0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:08.400
<v Speaker 2>and I did a zoom interview or whatever zoom was

0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:10.960
<v Speaker 2>back then it was the Skype or whatever, and I

0:48:11.000 --> 0:48:13.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't hear from them for years.

0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:15.120
<v Speaker 1>It was just like I did.

0:48:15.360 --> 0:48:17.120
<v Speaker 2>I made it to the last step and then you know,

0:48:17.200 --> 0:48:19.760
<v Speaker 2>everything fizzled out. And I've done lots of this sense,

0:48:19.800 --> 0:48:21.720
<v Speaker 2>so this is kind of how you know one percent

0:48:21.760 --> 0:48:22.320
<v Speaker 2>of what they.

0:48:22.160 --> 0:48:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Do actually makes it.

0:48:23.560 --> 0:48:25.640
<v Speaker 2>And then a couple of years later, I got a

0:48:25.680 --> 0:48:29.719
<v Speaker 2>call from the casting producer and he said, hey, you know,

0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:33.240
<v Speaker 2>E fired a bunch of people. There's a new person

0:48:33.280 --> 0:48:35.480
<v Speaker 2>in charge who really loved this show years ago, and

0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:36.640
<v Speaker 2>she wants to revisit it.

0:48:37.000 --> 0:48:38.160
<v Speaker 1>Are you still interested?

0:48:38.320 --> 0:48:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Is like four or five years later, and I was

0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:42.120
<v Speaker 2>like sure, and he said, I don't think we need

0:48:42.160 --> 0:48:44.640
<v Speaker 2>to refilm anything because you were great in the first audition.

0:48:44.719 --> 0:48:47.640
<v Speaker 2>I said, okay, fine. And then about four or five

0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:49.920
<v Speaker 2>months later, in the middle of clinic one day, I

0:48:49.960 --> 0:48:52.840
<v Speaker 2>got a phone call from an unknown number and I

0:48:52.880 --> 0:48:55.120
<v Speaker 2>answered it and everyone's screaming and I'm like, I don't

0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:57.560
<v Speaker 2>know who this is, what's going on? And it was

0:48:57.640 --> 0:49:00.279
<v Speaker 2>the producer and he said he picked a us up

0:49:00.280 --> 0:49:00.960
<v Speaker 2>for a full.

0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Season and they want you.

0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:04.040
<v Speaker 2>We had a bunch of candidates and they chose you

0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:06.359
<v Speaker 2>from the stack, so I got to be on the show.

0:49:06.400 --> 0:49:07.120
<v Speaker 1>That's how it happened.

0:49:07.120 --> 0:49:10.680
<v Speaker 2>It was very you know, that's so cool. It was

0:49:10.800 --> 0:49:11.280
<v Speaker 2>very cool.

0:49:12.200 --> 0:49:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you go to work that day, it's just a

0:49:13.960 --> 0:49:16.720
<v Speaker 1>normal day and you go, oh, I got some news

0:49:17.560 --> 0:49:19.880
<v Speaker 1>be on a television show. And it was a great

0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:22.200
<v Speaker 1>experience for a couple of reasons. That the first reason

0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:25.680
<v Speaker 1>it was great, I made a very dear friend. Michelle

0:49:25.719 --> 0:49:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Lee is one of the other surgeons on the show,

0:49:27.680 --> 0:49:29.680
<v Speaker 1>and her and I are very good friends. And that's

0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:32.320
<v Speaker 1>the best part of a show is gaining a wonderful

0:49:32.360 --> 0:49:33.239
<v Speaker 1>lifetime friend like.

0:49:33.200 --> 0:49:36.160
<v Speaker 2>That, and then I just I love reality TV.

0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:37.120
<v Speaker 1>So I love the.

0:49:37.120 --> 0:49:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Process of like knowing how it works. I love the crew.

0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:43.319
<v Speaker 2>Some of our crew worked on like RuPaul's Drive Race

0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:45.440
<v Speaker 2>and the Kardashians, and it was fun hearing all their

0:49:45.480 --> 0:49:49.080
<v Speaker 2>behind the scenes story. Our showrunner, what Lori Gordon, was

0:49:49.120 --> 0:49:53.320
<v Speaker 2>a Emmy Award winning, our producer did the original Doctor

0:49:53.360 --> 0:49:55.520
<v Speaker 2>nine or two and zero and if botched, Like it's

0:49:55.600 --> 0:49:59.040
<v Speaker 2>just the cast of people we worked with was so incredible.

0:49:59.040 --> 0:50:01.319
<v Speaker 2>It was really fun part and it just sucked. It

0:50:01.360 --> 0:50:04.400
<v Speaker 2>was a you know, Casulty of twenty twenty. You know,

0:50:04.520 --> 0:50:07.279
<v Speaker 2>e was bought by Peacock and they just kind of

0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:10.160
<v Speaker 2>canned everything that didn't have another season already in the work, so,

0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:12.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, one season show.

0:50:12.080 --> 0:50:14.920
<v Speaker 1>But it was a good time. So you so it

0:50:14.960 --> 0:50:17.480
<v Speaker 1>sounds like you'd be interested in doing something again if

0:50:17.520 --> 0:50:19.719
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity arose. Yeah.

0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:21.520
<v Speaker 2>I get offered things here and there, but I think

0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:24.239
<v Speaker 2>that had such a powerful experience with that it would

0:50:24.239 --> 0:50:26.200
<v Speaker 2>be hard for me to take something that didn't live

0:50:26.280 --> 0:50:29.520
<v Speaker 2>up to that expectation. They were really great about allowing

0:50:29.520 --> 0:50:31.120
<v Speaker 2>me to show the things that were important to me,

0:50:31.280 --> 0:50:34.040
<v Speaker 2>like breast reconstruction and dealing with people with like chest

0:50:34.080 --> 0:50:36.520
<v Speaker 2>wall deformities, and to show more of what I do

0:50:36.600 --> 0:50:38.560
<v Speaker 2>and not just the typical fluff.

0:50:38.280 --> 0:50:41.320
<v Speaker 1>Plastic surgery that you see. Yeah, which I think is

0:50:41.360 --> 0:50:44.960
<v Speaker 1>important because people need to know that some of the

0:50:45.000 --> 0:50:48.120
<v Speaker 1>complications that lots of women go through and how and

0:50:48.160 --> 0:50:50.080
<v Speaker 1>how they could be fixed. It's not the end of

0:50:50.080 --> 0:50:53.560
<v Speaker 1>the world if it happens necessarily. All right, Well, thanks

0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:55.439
<v Speaker 1>so much for being here today. It was so nice

0:50:55.480 --> 0:50:57.439
<v Speaker 1>meeting you, and I think that everybody got to learn

0:50:57.480 --> 0:51:00.359
<v Speaker 1>a lot about this. I'm sure people listening right now

0:51:00.400 --> 0:51:02.880
<v Speaker 1>have implants and maybe didn't even hear all of this

0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:05.960
<v Speaker 1>from their surgeons, so it's really awesome, and I think

0:51:06.000 --> 0:51:08.440
<v Speaker 1>you explained everything in a way that's very easy for

0:51:08.520 --> 0:51:11.279
<v Speaker 1>everyone to understand. Thank you, Thank you so much for

0:51:11.280 --> 0:51:20.239
<v Speaker 1>having me. This was really fun, awesome, Thanks thank you

0:51:20.320 --> 0:51:24.000
<v Speaker 1>for listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder, my

0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:28.160
<v Speaker 1>training is as a pathologist's assistant. I have a master's

0:51:28.280 --> 0:51:33.319
<v Speaker 1>level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I

0:51:33.320 --> 0:51:35.520
<v Speaker 1>am not a doctor, and I have not diagnosed or

0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:39.239
<v Speaker 1>treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of a

0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:44.680
<v Speaker 1>licensed medical doctor. This show My website and social media

0:51:44.800 --> 0:51:48.000
<v Speaker 1>accounts are designed to educate and inform people based on

0:51:48.120 --> 0:51:52.520
<v Speaker 1>my experience working in pathology, so they can make healthier

0:51:52.560 --> 0:51:56.920
<v Speaker 1>decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember that

0:51:56.960 --> 0:52:00.040
<v Speaker 1>science is changing every day and the opinions expressed in

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:03.120
<v Speaker 1>this episode are based on my knowledge of those subjects

0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:06.520
<v Speaker 1>at the time of publication. If you are having a

0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:11.480
<v Speaker 1>medical problem, have a medical question, or having a medical emergency,

0:52:12.040 --> 0:52:15.440
<v Speaker 1>please contact your physician or visit an urgent care center,

0:52:15.760 --> 0:52:20.360
<v Speaker 1>emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review, and subscribe to

0:52:20.440 --> 0:52:24.759
<v Speaker 1>Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you

0:52:24.840 --> 0:52:36.399
<v Speaker 1>get podcasts. Thanks