1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death Presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy. 2 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome to this week's External Exam episode on 3 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: Mother nos Death. We've been talking about plastic surgery and 4 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: in the news over the past few months since we 5 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: started the podcast, and I thought it would be great 6 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: today if we interviewed an expert in the field. This 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: is doctor Kelly Colleen. Hi, welcome to the show. 8 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: Hi, thanks for having me. 9 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: Doctor Colleen is a double board certified plastic surgeon in 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: Beverly Hills and she's also appeared in multiple news stories, podcasts, 11 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: and TV shows, including her own, which is Doctor nine 12 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: O two one. Oh. So that is super cool and 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: we'll get into asking you about that experience later, but 14 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: before we die, I've been too all that. I want 15 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: to first start out asking you just about how you 16 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: got where you are today. So did you always know 17 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: that you wanted to be a doctor? 18 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: So I actually didn't. My parents are both surgeons, and. 19 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: I think for that reason, I wanted to be. 20 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: Everything other than a doctor. And one summer when I 21 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: was in college, I was home for the weekend. And 22 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 2: you are not allowed to do this now, this is 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: very many decades ago. My dad was like, because I was, 24 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: you know, bored at the house in the house board, 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: and he said, hey, do you want to come watch 26 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: a surgery? I'm doing aneurism or care. And so I 27 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: went to the hospital and I got to be an 28 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: observer in the operating room. I was just hooked. I mean, 29 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 2: nothing I have ever seen was as cool as that, 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: and I just. 31 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: Knew I needed to be a surgeon. That's so cool. 32 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: Did you think, oh, my dad's so cool, Like you 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: never really realized what he did until that day. I did. 34 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: And I think you hear all the words at home, 35 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: and you know, you just never think your parents are 36 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 2: cool when you're a teenager. 37 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: Of course, but yeah, and it was. It was awesome. 38 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: And my my boyfriend at the time came as well 39 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: and he passed out. 40 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, what are we why? 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: I'm like, you're wame. But yeah, it was just a 42 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 2: cool experience and it kind of set me in the path. 43 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: I'm in now. That's that's so great. That's I love 44 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: hearing people's stories. It was a similar thing with me 45 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: because when I started working in the hospital and everything, 46 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: we were allowed just anybody was allowed to go view 47 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: all top season Unfortunately, it's not like that anymore because 48 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: that's how a lot of people get there. They're like, Okay, 49 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: I want to do this for a living, and that's 50 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: where they get their passion and drive from. And it's 51 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: just different than watching it on a video or just 52 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: hearing about it for sure. So, so you started medical school, 53 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: and so when you started medical school, you knew you 54 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: were going for surgery. That was the plan. Yeah, I 55 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: love surgery. I wasn't. 56 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: I didn't really have strong ideas. 57 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: I knew I. 58 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 2: Always liked plastics, but I'm I'm one of those students 59 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: that I love every rotation I'm on, and so I 60 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: had a little bit of a hard time figuring out 61 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: what I wanted to do because every field of surgery 62 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: was so amazing. But there's definitely a surgical personality, like 63 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: looking back on my friend group, like you know early on, 64 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 2: like who's destined for medicine and medicine subspecialties. 65 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: And who's destined for surgery. So once you were through 66 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: with medical school, then you did a residency in surgery, 67 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: and then when you started that residency and surgery were 68 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: was that just you didn't really have it pinpointed yet, 69 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: Like when was the time that you said, Okay, I'm 70 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: definitely going into cosmetic surgery. 71 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: So I've always had an interest in plastic surgery. And 72 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: I think you have to decide by about your fourth 73 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: year because that's when fellowship. 74 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: Applications go in. 75 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: So in I did a full general surgery residency first, 76 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: so that's why i'm double board certified. It's both of 77 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: my boards or are recognized boards, so general surgery boards, 78 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: the American Border Surgery. And then I did my fellowship, 79 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: so I had to decide by fourth year. And the 80 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: specialty that I had a really hard time, like going 81 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: back and forth was vascular versus plastic surgery. I just 82 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: loved vascular surgery too, but I think for my personality, 83 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 2: plastic surgery made more sense. 84 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: That's cool, So I think in an important point to 85 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: say is that if you decided right now that you 86 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: didn't want to be a plastic surgeon anymore, you could 87 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: go do other surgeries because you're a board certified surgeon first, correct, right, 88 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: So I could like go and get privileges to do 89 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: lap Coli'S her ny repairs and take call. 90 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 2: At a at a hospital. I loved my general surgery training. 91 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: A lot of plastic surgeons. Most plastic surgeons now don't 92 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: train in the way that I did. They have now 93 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: transitioned most plastic surgery training to a shortened program where 94 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: you do less general surgery and those years are more 95 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: focused in things applicable to playtics, and so it's kind 96 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 2: of an accelerated track through it. Most people don't realize this, 97 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: and I didn't realize this until I started working in 98 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: the hospital. Just how long it takes to become what 99 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: you consider a doctor, somebody that is working and making 100 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: good money. And they don't realize that when you're in 101 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 2: your residency and your fellowship you really don't. 102 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: You don't make a ton of money. It's just kind 103 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: of enough to get by. But how old were you 104 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: when the day you started college versus the day you 105 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: were able to be a real doctor. So I was 106 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: a little young starting college. 107 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: I was seventeen, and I've finished all of my training 108 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: and was set free to be in attending when I 109 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: was thirty three. 110 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really amazing. A lot of people just don't 111 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: think of how many years of your life that you 112 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: have to dedicate to that. It's a lot. Yeah, it's 113 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: it's really cool. So we already went over the double 114 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: board certified thing, which is cool, I think. I I 115 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: always like to give that advice to no matter what 116 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: level of education you're at, that you could if you 117 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: actually start working and hate what you're doing, that you 118 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: have kind of a fallback. So I think that that's 119 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: cool that you could do the two separate things. And 120 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: this way, if you just started doing cosmetic surgeries and 121 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: you were like, this isn't for me, then you have 122 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: a backup, and that's good at any education level. A 123 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: few weeks ago on the news, we talked about Black China. 124 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with her, probably you are, 125 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: and we discussed that she was getting all of these 126 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: cosmetic procedures, not only to dissolve fillers in her face, 127 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: which by the way, she in my opinion, she looks 128 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: a thousand times more beautiful now just being a lot 129 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: less of that stuff, but she also discussed that she 130 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: was having complications from her breast implants. And I think 131 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: we hear a lot about people getting breast implants. It's 132 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the number one 133 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: cosmetic procedure in this country, at least one of the top. 134 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, LiPo such and breast augmentation. Uh was it breast reductions? 135 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? All right, So I want to get into that 136 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: because I think we hear so much about all of 137 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: I mean, all of these people we see that are 138 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: celebrities and everything. It seems like so many of them 139 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: have breast implants, but we don't hear too much about 140 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: the complications that could come with breast implants. And for her, 141 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 1: I believe she had like capsular contraction. Can you explain 142 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: to us a little bit what that is? Absolutely so, 143 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: and I totally agree with you. 144 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest things that we have 145 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: screwed up as a field in plastic surgery is breast 146 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: implants and educating patients that are getting them. 147 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: So, breast implants are not a lifetime device. They are. 148 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: We have known this for a very long time, but 149 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: unfortunately patients are still to this day not commonly told that. 150 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 2: And in addition to having a device that requires maintenance, 151 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: it also requires imaging for watching it and if you 152 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: have silicone implants, and we just have not been good 153 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: traditionally at telling women this. So one of the complications 154 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: that you can get from your breast implants is something 155 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: called capsular contracture. 156 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: And so anytime you put a foreign. 157 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: Body in your body, your body recognizes that it's not you, 158 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: and it walled off with a scar tissue sack. And 159 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: we call that the capsule. And that's the same for 160 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: and you've seen as in autopsies, for peacemakers and hip replacements, 161 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: any type of foreign body, you get a capsule. Now, 162 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 2: if the capsule becomes inflamed and sickened, it has the 163 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 2: ability to compress the breast implant in a way it 164 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 2: can't compress other like fake things in your body because 165 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: it's soft. And so what ends up happening is your 166 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: capsule can make your breast implant firm. That's the first stage. 167 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 2: It can make it look weird, that's the next stage, 168 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 2: and then it could also make it hurt, and that's 169 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: the final stage of capsular contracture. 170 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: Now, this used to. 171 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,599 Speaker 2: Be much more common. You know, twenty years ago the 172 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 2: rates were fourteen and some of the fourteen percent of 173 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 2: patients in some of the older studies, newer studies, because 174 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: we know how to prevent it in a lot of patients, 175 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 2: it's about one percent in cosmetic patients, which is a 176 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: huge improvement for women and so basically, when you have 177 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: this tight scar tissue, like I said, not only does 178 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: it look weird and seals yucky, it can really hurt you. 179 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: And the other unfortunate thing about cancer contracture is we 180 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: have now identified an exceedingly rare cancer, but it's still 181 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: a cancer that can come from long standing contractures, and 182 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: it's called a breast and planet associated swaymouth cell. And 183 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: we've known for years that sway miss cells come from 184 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: areas of chronic inflammation like stolach ulcerers in burn wounds, 185 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 2: and now we know chronic inflammation around breast implants can 186 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 2: cause cancer too. So it's actually a really significant problem 187 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 2: that what women need to. 188 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: Take care of. Yeah, I think that's interesting. And I 189 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: do remember, obviously, like I have this life before I 190 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: ever worked in pathology, and then working in pathology, so 191 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: I just have totally different opinions on everything. And I 192 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: remember some of my friends saying they're going to get 193 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: breast implants and they're in their early twenties, and I 194 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: would think, like, you know, you're going to have to 195 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: get them replaced a couple more times in your life 196 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: when you're a sixty year old grandmam or you're gonna 197 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: feel like getting your breast implants replaced. And I've seen 198 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: that with other things like IUDs and stuff like getting 199 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: them from eighty year old women that just never got 200 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: the last one taken out, that you just don't feel 201 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: like dealing with it anymore when you get older, you know. 202 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: And yeah, just so many complications seen with any foreign 203 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: bodies is just a thing. I've even gotten, like the 204 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: old school silicone implants that have leaked in a capsule 205 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 1: that are just sticky glue everywhere, and it's just terrible. 206 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: And it's good to hear that the technology is improving. 207 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: I do see on your website you have a lot 208 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: of before and afters of implant removals. And are these 209 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: people getting them removed and not getting them replaced or 210 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: is it a swap out. It's a combination. 211 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: And in general, most patients these days that I see 212 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 2: for implants, they want their implants out. I think it's 213 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: a combination of reasons. You know, the esthetic is very 214 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: different today than it was twenty thirty years ago, and 215 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 2: so women when they were in their twenties got very large, 216 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: disproportionate breast implants and that doesn't age well with you 217 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 2: in general. When you're yeah, you can wear really tight 218 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 2: things that show your figure out and you know, enjoy 219 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 2: those large breast implants. But women when they're older don't 220 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: love to do that usually, and so for things to 221 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 2: fit the top, it doesn't fit the bottom, and it 222 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: makes you appear larger than you are, and it's also uncomfortable. 223 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 2: So a lot of women have kind of aged out 224 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 2: of their breasted liss. There's also a population of patients 225 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 2: who just didn't realize there was maintenance, and they're like, 226 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 2: I don't want to deal with this, just get them 227 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: out of me, and I want to be done with this. 228 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: I just want my body and I don't want to 229 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: have to watch anything. 230 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: And then there's also patients that are that are a 231 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: smaller percentage of my implant removals that just they think 232 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: they're implants are causing health concerns and so for that 233 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: reason they want them removed. All right, So let's touch 234 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: on that a little bit more. I think you're referring 235 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 2: to breast implant illness. It's a thing that's been really 236 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 2: popular over the past. 237 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: Ten fifteen years. I guess you would say, what is 238 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: that has that been scientifically proven to be a real thing. 239 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: Yet is that something that you believe is a thing. 240 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: So I absolutely believe it's a thing. We don't have 241 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: a lot of good data explaining it, if that's what 242 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: she means. So basically, you know, the kind. 243 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: Of the history of this problem is that in you know, 244 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 2: the nineties, women were saying, Hey, I think I'm getting 245 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 2: sick for my implants, and the lawsuit started flying and 246 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: the FDA shut the whole thing down, pulled them from 247 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 2: the market, and there was, you know, more than a 248 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: decade of additional testing on them. But what we what 249 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: we know is that some women just don't feel well 250 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 2: and get sick and get symptoms with breast implants. There 251 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: has now been over one hundred and fifty symptoms associated 252 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: with breast implants, and there's just no disease, no single 253 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: disease that has that variety of symptoms, and so we 254 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 2: just don't understand what's going on. And so for years, 255 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: plastic surgeons, mostly men, we're telling patients you're crazy, get 256 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: a boyfriend, you know, like stupid things like that, and 257 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 2: so women became very distrustful of the plastic surgery community, 258 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 2: and this, unfortunately allowed people to pray them, and so 259 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 2: there became this big community of women with their you know, 260 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 2: special experts with no scientific data to support what they're doing, 261 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: recommending a variety of surgeries like removing the implant with 262 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: the capsule tissue in one piece and things of that nature. 263 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 2: And so in recent years as a community, and I 264 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 2: think this is a very seamal driven think because a 265 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 2: lot of the head rees are the big researchers on 266 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: these studies or women, We said, hey, we need to 267 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 2: figure this out. 268 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: This is a real thing. 269 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 2: Women aren't crazy, they're not stupid, and we can't let 270 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 2: these people pray on them, doing non evidence based things 271 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: to them. 272 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: So there's been some studies. 273 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: Now and what we know we don't know what it is, 274 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: but what we know is that women with breast implants 275 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 2: don't have higher heavy metal concentrations in their tissue. We've 276 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 2: tested them now in studies against women who have never 277 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: had implants. It doesn't appear to be autoimmune. We've looked 278 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: at autoimmune markers in these patient populations. We now know 279 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: that removing implants and women who believe their implants are 280 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 2: making them ill, about two thirds get better. So we 281 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: know that implant removal is the right thing to do 282 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 2: in this population. We also know that removing the capsule 283 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 2: tissue does not increase their chance of getting better, and 284 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: this has been shown in several studies in several countries 285 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: now in good studies with control groups, you know, et cetera. 286 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: So we're learning. We don't know enough, and so the 287 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 2: research is ongoing. We also know it's not silicone because 288 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: women with saline implants that don't have silicones found in 289 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 2: their capsules have equals sometimes higher rates of breast implant 290 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: illness symptoms. We don't know enough, and so we're continuing 291 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: to study this entity. I think, you know, I take 292 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: care of. 293 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: My practice is primarily. 294 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 2: Breast you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds 295 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: of women a year, and it is not something that 296 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: is common. And it's in those groups they believe it 297 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: is because it is a self selected group and so 298 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 2: those patients find each other. But in the general population, 299 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: a vast majority of women in THISS has shown in 300 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: studies as well, are happy with their breast inness. So 301 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: I think it's like any risks when you have a device, 302 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: you need to understand that this is a possibility, and 303 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: you need to choose a surgeon who will believe you, 304 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: trust you, and help you through it if you do 305 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:35,359 Speaker 2: develop problems. 306 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: This is really interesting to me because when you're doing 307 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: the studies, is it because some of the symptoms I 308 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: feel overlapped with something like perimenopause and stuff like I'm 309 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: like at that age now that I'm going through, like 310 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: just feel like a lot of things are changing with 311 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: my body, and if I had implants, I'd be like, 312 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that has to be it. It's that's 313 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: what's causing me to have this problem. So you are 314 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: testing groups of people that don't have implants versus implants 315 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: and seeing that there is a correlation with the implant 316 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: versus just like changes of life as you get older. 317 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of overlap with the symptoms of 318 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 2: women with symptoms from their breast implants, where the new 319 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: terminology is SSBI systemic symptoms from breast implants, And that 320 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: makes all of the studies and the diagnosis even more confusing, 321 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 2: and so patients will often come to us. There's been 322 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: some studies that have shown when influencers are prominent, people 323 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: with big followings discussed that they have symptoms from their 324 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: breast implants and remove them. That requests for implant removals 325 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 2: go up significantly in plastic surgery offices. So there's a 326 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 2: lot of awareness about this now online where there wasn't before. 327 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: And so it's really important as a patient and doctors 328 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: taking care of patients that you don't jump to the 329 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 2: conclusion like you said, that it's the breast implants, because 330 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: there's a lot of different medical problems, some of which 331 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 2: are serious and required treatment that can cause similar symptoms, 332 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: and so these patients deserve the same cautious, evidence based 333 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: care that we give every patient that comes into our office. 334 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: So when you take a breast implant out, is it 335 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: kind of like a deflated balloon almost, that you have 336 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: to do a most reconstructive surgery because the skin is 337 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: stretched out where for so many years when they had 338 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: an implant. 339 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And it's so implants do a very characteristic thing, 340 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 2: So they are the most projected in the middle and 341 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 2: then they kind of fall off to the sides, and 342 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: so they stretch the skin and tissue and thin it 343 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 2: the most in the middle of your breast, right under 344 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: your nipple, and then less and less. And so when 345 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 2: you take your inplant out, your breast is going to 346 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: be wider than it started. There's kind of a mountain 347 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 2: range of breast tissue and then often a flat or 348 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 2: even sulken area in the middle, and so that does 349 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 2: require some reconstruction, and it really just depends on the 350 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: individual patient. The skin, believe it or not, just think 351 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: of pregnancy will retract if you just give it time, 352 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 2: and so it's often a good idea to not do 353 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 2: too much at the time of the removal and just 354 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 2: see what your body's gonna do, because it can save 355 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 2: yourself having a lift later. 356 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: Okay, that's really interesting. One thing that I want to 357 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: note that you just mentioned was about male doctors kind 358 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: of telling women that they were crazy, which is a 359 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: common theme that we hear about all the time on 360 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: my Instagram and in the gross room and on this podcast. 361 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: But I know from your website that you said that 362 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: only fifteen percent of cosmetic surgeons are actually female, which 363 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: I think is kind of is kind of ironic considering 364 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: most mostly women get cosmetic procedures. Correct, there's more women 365 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: that get them than male. Yeah, so why do you 366 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: think that. 367 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 2: Is Surgery is still to this day a very male 368 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: dominated field, and I think things are changing. You know, 369 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: our medical school classes across the country are over fifty 370 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: percent women. Now, surgical residencies the numbers women are better represented, 371 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 2: but we are still not there yet. And so as 372 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 2: the years go on, we are going to get closer 373 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 2: and closer to things being equal, but as of right. 374 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: Now, it is not. 375 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 2: And the studies with women in surgery in general show 376 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 2: that our outcomes are superior. And men get very upset 377 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 2: about this. I tell them don't, because it's not. Women 378 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: are inherently better at being a surgeon. We have qualities 379 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 2: that make our patients do better, and instead of looking 380 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: at it like some kind of slap in the face, 381 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 2: look at it as a learning opportunity. You know, one 382 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 2: of the big series is that women who go through 383 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 2: you know, medicine have the quality of good communication because 384 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: women have great communication skills. So that means that we're 385 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 2: educating our patients about what to expect complications, we are 386 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 2: educating them how to behave when they leave the hospital, 387 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: and that leads to less complications, less returns to the hospital, 388 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 2: and those kind of improvements in their outcomes. So I 389 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: think it's similar when I talk to my male colleagues 390 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 2: about how when you look at the data for physicians 391 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 2: of color versus white physicians and caring for patients of color, 392 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: they have superior outcomes. And I don't lose my marbles 393 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: and go, no, you don't. 394 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: I immediately become. 395 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: Curious and I want to know why, why are you 396 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 2: getting better outcomes with patients who are the same culture, background, 397 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 2: ethnic groups you? And that is something that I think 398 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 2: we all can work from each other. And that's why 399 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 2: diversity in medicine is so important. 400 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I always think 401 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: about that with just men in general, Like you just 402 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: will never understand what it's like to feel shitty for 403 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: a week of the month because you have your period, 404 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: Like your body feels good all the time. Ours doesn't, 405 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: And there's all this it's not even just like physical 406 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: pain that you feel when you're going through your monthly cycle, 407 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: but also all of the change in hormones and the 408 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: emotions and everything, and it's almost like you just can't 409 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: talk to somebody sometimes it does have a similar life 410 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: experience as you. You you can, but you can't sometimes. 411 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: I feel like, so that's really important. That's why I 412 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: always prefer having I would prefer having like a female. 413 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: They when you call to make your gynocologists appointment, they 414 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: say do you want to mail or female doctor? And 415 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like, well they might understand more what 416 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: I'm going through that that's just something that I've noticed. Hey, guys, 417 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: this episode is brought to you by the Gross Room. 418 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: Starting on February ninth to February twenty third, the Grossroom 419 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: will be on Salt for only twenty dollars. For the 420 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: entire year of Gross you will have access to celebrity 421 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: death dissections, high profile death dissections, thousands of videos, photos, articles, 422 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: all the way dating back to twenty nineteen. You definitely 423 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: need to join this Valentine's Day. Please go to the 424 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: grossroom dot com for more info and sign up. Okay, 425 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: let's get into some juicy stuff. Have you so obviously 426 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: you've seen such crazy surgeries people have had, and oftentimes 427 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: I think, like, what surgeon would even do this surgery 428 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: on a person? It seems almost unethical to me. Have 429 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,959 Speaker 1: you ever had people come in and ask for something 430 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: so outrageous and you've had to tell them though? 431 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 2: And that actually happens on a regular basis, And so 432 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 2: I think with social media and the internet being what 433 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 2: it is. People have access to a lot of information, 434 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 2: and patients often have this idea that surgery can make 435 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 2: you look any way you want. So they come in 436 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: in the it's almost like a drive through where they're 437 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 2: at a fast food restaurant. They're like, I want this, this, this, this, this, 438 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 2: and they have a bunch of of sings that they want. 439 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 2: And so my job is not only just to be 440 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: a practicing surgeon who does the surgery. I need to 441 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 2: educate them and help them and we make a decision 442 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: together about what the best course of action is. So yes, 443 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 2: I say no all the time, the unfortunate reality of life. 444 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 2: And I tell patients this when they come into my 445 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 2: office and I can see in their eyes they're going 446 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 2: to go somewhere else. If you wave a credit card around, 447 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: someone will take it. And so what you want in 448 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 2: a surgeon is not someone who just will take your 449 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: credit card and give you anything you ask for, because 450 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 2: that is no one should ever want that. You don't 451 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 2: want a yes n'am. You want someone who will be 452 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 2: honest with you and help you through decisions instead of 453 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 2: number one making them for you or number two allowing 454 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: you to make decisions with no input especially when they're 455 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 2: not necessarily a great idea. 456 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: So you see people all the time that have normal concerns, 457 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 1: like their breasts are sagging or something after childbirth, and 458 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: that's and then I feel like there's this other line 459 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: of people that have something called body dysmorphia when they 460 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: look in the mirror and they're not seeing what everyone 461 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: else is seeing kind of thing. So, do you have 462 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: some kind of ethical obligation? I know you're saying other doctors, 463 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: if they take a credit card, they'll do it, but 464 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: just from your board, certification and everything, is there some 465 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: kind of I don't know where you would exactly draw 466 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: that line, but I've seen women get in these insane 467 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: size implants and then them rupturing and just looking at it, thinking, 468 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: how could a surgeon ever look at this woman and 469 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: think that this was this was going to be safe 470 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: for her. You're putting her in a dangerous situation and 471 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: she doesn't even really realize it as much as the 472 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: surgeon would. So do you have some kind of ethics 473 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: or is it just to your discretion? Like you could 474 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: do whatever you want. 475 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 2: Basically, it's really to your discretion. It's you know, it's hard, 476 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 2: you know what I learned is we would say people 477 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 2: do things in poor taste or good taste, but I 478 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 2: think that there's really not good or bad taste. 479 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: There's just taste. 480 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 2: And so some people have a taste for things that 481 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 2: are very extreme, and with that taste becomes more problems 482 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 2: in complication. And I think that some of these patients 483 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 2: who take it to an extreme, they have something from 484 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 2: a mental illness standpoint going on that is leeting them there. Now, 485 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's true. Body dysmorphia. You know, 486 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: body dysmorphia is a real diagnosis that it gets abused 487 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: by the media either like Kim Kardashie has body doesswork. 488 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 2: It's not body dysmorphia. Body dysmorphia isn't someone choosing something 489 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 2: for their body that you don't like. Body dysmorphia is 490 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 2: someone who has a hyperfixation on a body part. They 491 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 2: spend an hour to two hours more a day trying 492 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: to camouflage it, staring at it, worrying about it, and 493 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 2: their concerns are really out of proportion to what's happening 494 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 2: in reality. These patients that do repeated surgeries, extreme surgeries 495 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 2: to their own detriment is a different issue, and I 496 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 2: actually don't really know. It would be interesting talk to 497 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 2: as psychologists or psychiatrist about what they think about these people. 498 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 2: But I think you do have an ethical obligation not 499 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 2: to harm people, and you are objectively harming people. And 500 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 2: no matter how much someone tells you they understand risk, 501 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 2: you don't have to be part of that risk. So 502 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: if someone comes in and they're willing to do something 503 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 2: that could be petitionally fatal or have a bad outcome, 504 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 2: or change their life trajectory for the worst, you don't 505 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 2: have to be part of that. They can have that 506 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: and want that, and you don't have to be part 507 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 2: of it. And so, you know, I think all of 508 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 2: us should be saying no to people if we think 509 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 2: they're harming themselves or their bodies. 510 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: So, speaking of extreme plastic surgery, there's been this this 511 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: one TikTok account that's been rotating the past couple of 512 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: weeks of this guy. I don't know if you sud 513 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: to him. 514 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I get tagged at it five times a day 515 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: for my followers. If it's wild. I have like I'm 516 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 2: a weird blastic surgeon because I struggle a lot with 517 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: some of the things we do. I have a young daughter, 518 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 2: and I think I have no problem with people making 519 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 2: decisions to alter their bodies in ways that bring them joy. 520 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: But I think when you're trying to erase who you 521 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 2: are and become something or so different, it makes me 522 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 2: uncomfortable and it gives me pause. And this plastic surgeon 523 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 2: is doing of surgery on people, and the incisions are 524 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: not placed well the patients, Like if you see they're 525 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 2: not moving their faces properly in the after photos like 526 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 2: this is very extreme facial changes and there's no long 527 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 2: term photos, and there's people in the comments saying like 528 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 2: the photos are great, nobody would go to them and 529 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 2: like where are they? Then, if you have great six 530 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 2: month photos, you would put those up. You wouldn't just 531 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 2: put immediate post off photos like he does. So it's 532 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 2: very concerning. And you know, we're seeing more and more 533 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: extreme things like this where people are altering their bodies 534 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 2: in ways that are not present in nature, and I 535 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: don't think this is an area that we should be 536 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: jumping into. 537 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 1: For my feel I honestly have an opinion about that 538 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: particular guy that those people are either they're doing it 539 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: either against their will or they're getting paid an insane 540 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: amount of money. The reason that I think that is 541 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: because when you look at their before pictures, they don't 542 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: look like some of them. They don't look like they 543 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: ever cared about what they looked like a day in 544 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: their life. And then all of a sudden, you know 545 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, it's not a person that's had 546 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: multiple face lifts and wants to get more and more 547 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: and more. It's like people that look seventy five years 548 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: old that never had a surgery or anything in their life, 549 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they want to do something 550 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: this extreme. Is he is he almost doing the procedure. 551 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: Looks like he's almost doing like a face transplant on 552 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: the person, like completely removing their face and then putting 553 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: it back on. It really does. 554 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 2: I mean, he's got a hairline incision that's placed too low. 555 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 2: He always had incisions in front of the ears that 556 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 2: go behind, so a full facelift. I it's I don't 557 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 2: know exactly what he's doing. He's you know, he's got 558 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 2: very exaggerated kantapexies where he's pulling the eyes up very 559 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 2: very aggressively at the sides. 560 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: It's their ears looking sane. Did you see their ears 561 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: are like flipped upside down. I know, I was like, 562 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: what is this guy doing? 563 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 2: I'd be curious to find out what exactly he's doing 564 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 2: and then you know, run screaming from it. Never do 565 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 2: anything near that in my entire life because it's it's 566 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 2: so unfortunate. 567 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: Well, he's not practicing in America. I don't believe either. 568 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: So there's that I don't know what standards wherever he's living. 569 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: But there's also some other ones that I've seen about women, 570 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: like removing their ribs to have a trimmer wasteline, and 571 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: that is something that's done here correct here. 572 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 2: And there's a plastic surgeon. He's pretty prominent on social 573 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 2: media and he's a real plastic surgeon. He doesn't I 574 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 2: you know. To me, it's I don't ever want to 575 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: do something that is worry. Cosmetic surgeries have amazing psychologic impact. 576 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: They make people feel good about themselves and enhance their lives. 577 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 2: But I never want to do a surgery that puts 578 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 2: you at risk from a health standpoint. If I can, 579 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 2: if I can, and people are just say President one 580 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: not is relaxed. When you remove rids, you are now 581 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 2: taking away protection from your livery or spleen. Your ribs 582 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 2: have a job, right, They're doing things, and so I 583 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 2: don't love that idea. You know, you can ask yourself 584 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 2: other things we do have potential risk, but I think 585 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 2: that's a potential risk I don't really want to delve into. 586 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: So, speaking of these famous social media plastic surgeons, I 587 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: actually went to one doctor Miami or Michael salshollower I love. 588 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: I loved my experience with him. I went there, his 589 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: office was super professional. Everyone that worked there. It almost 590 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: was like what he was portraying on the internet and 591 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: what was happening there was just so professional. It was 592 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: just it was really it was just a great experience overall. 593 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: But I've also heard horror story. So one of the 594 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: news stories that we talked about was Jackie Oh. She 595 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: had died from having a brazil like a Brazilian butler 596 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: slash Mommy makeover. And apparently she went to one of 597 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: these clinics that are pushed all the time in Miami, 598 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: specifically that are pumping out these Brazilian butt lifts for 599 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: really inexpensive and they're doing multiple procedures a day. And 600 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: there's also a surgeon, her name was doctor Roxy, who 601 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: had just lost her license right from doing videos because 602 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: they were able to prove that a patient had complications 603 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: because she was kind of it looks like she was 604 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: doing liposuction and staring at the camera and not even 605 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: looking where she was putting the canula. How do you 606 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: feel the internet has both helped and hurt your field? 607 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 2: So, you know, there is it's a hard it's a 608 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: hard subject. 609 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: You know. I'm on social media and I enjoy it. 610 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 2: I try to focus on educating patients and I do 611 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 2: silly things and funny stuff here and there, but I 612 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 2: try to not do it with I do not do 613 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: it with patients involved. I think that social media is 614 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 2: a very powerful tool for patient education. It's a powerful 615 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 2: tool for driving patience into your practice. From a business standpoint, 616 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,719 Speaker 2: the problem is is that not every person handles social 617 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 2: media well. And so there are plastic surgeons with monster 618 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 2: followings that are wonderful at social media and they also 619 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 2: maintain their ethics and take good care of patients. And 620 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 2: then there's also plastic surgeons that don't have that skill, 621 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 2: and doctor Roxy seems to be one of those people. 622 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 2: And to be clear, she didn't lose her license because 623 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 2: of social media. That made the news stories more solacious. 624 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 2: She lost her license because of horrific patient care. And 625 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 2: I think that needs to be clear, is that you 626 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: know she from I don't know her personally, but I 627 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 2: know people who train with her and know her. And 628 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 2: she was a wonderful surgeon and did wonderful work in 629 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 2: her residency and in her younger doctor life, was very 630 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: well respected and liked and even in her early life. 631 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: And I think she's someone who just seeings that social 632 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 2: media changed how she cared for patients. And that is 633 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: if that is you, the following is not worth it. 634 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: If you are someone like to you, who is an ethical, 635 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 2: wonderful surgeon, he's funny with a huge following, then yeah, 636 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: social media is wonderful for you. But sometimes it's hard 637 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 2: to self reflect and though is this helping me or 638 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: is this hurting me? In doctor Roxy's standpoint, it really 639 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: obviously hurt her because now she has lost a career 640 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 2: that she worked. Like I said, how long I worked? 641 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 2: That fell long she worked to get there. She lost 642 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 2: all of her youth training in plastic surgery here practice anymore, 643 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 2: which is awful. It's it's it's just it's it's a tragedy. 644 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 2: All around. It's a tragedy for her family, It's a 645 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 2: tragedy ten times for her patience families, and it should 646 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 2: have never happened in social media. Was certainly to see 647 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 2: that that grewm that situation. I think we plastic surgeons, 648 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 2: we have unfortunately allowed cosmetic surgeons to take the lead 649 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,719 Speaker 2: on social media, and it's hurt our profession. It's allowed 650 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: people who aren't properly trained in plastic surgery to develop 651 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 2: reputations that potentially harm people without proper training. I think 652 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 2: that we should have jumped on it sooner, But we 653 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 2: do need some kind of better ethics or understanding for 654 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 2: how we should behave because I don't think all of 655 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: us get it right. Yeah. 656 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: I think in general, the social media thing kind of 657 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: creeped up on everyone, and everyone just jumped on it, 658 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: and now we're all stepping back and saying, wow, maybe 659 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: it's not a good idea to post pictures of our 660 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: kids online and just get actually giving training to kids 661 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: in high school just because you could ruin your life 662 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: just by posting things that might come up later and everything. 663 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: But I feel like no, especially us, like when I 664 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: didn't even get a phone until I was twenty some 665 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: years old, like a cell phone, you know, social media 666 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: not until I was in my thirties already. So I 667 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: lived a lot of my life not knowing that world 668 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: and then jumping onto it. I was an educator on 669 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: how to handle having that amount of attention and followers 670 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: and stuff within a short period of time, and I 671 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: think that I think a lot of people don't know 672 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: what to do with that either. So, yeah, it's intoxicating. 673 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 2: You know, you wake up and you have a million 674 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 2: comments and lights and attention and your followers. Though up, 675 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 2: I completely understand how that can be something that's intoxicating, 676 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 2: but you have to It's it's like an addiction in 677 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 2: some ways. Right, It's like some people can drink alcohol 678 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 2: and be fine and other people have that genetics where 679 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 2: it goes too far. And I think social media is 680 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 2: a similar problem. 681 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Okay, have you ever done any surgical 682 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: You don't obviously don't tell us any names, but have 683 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: you ever done any procedures on any celebrities? I for have, 684 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: And that's so that this is interesting to me because 685 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: I when I worked in the city, we used to 686 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: have we had like people from the Eagles come in 687 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: and the mayor, like all these famous people will come 688 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: into the hospital and they put them in this special 689 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: suite and they gave them fake names, Jane Doe, John 690 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: Doe it was. And we would just get a phone call, 691 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna have a frozen section come down on a VIP. 692 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: That was all we knew. They sometimes we wouldn't even 693 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: know the person's name because they're just too afraid that 694 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: it's going to leak to the media somehow that they're 695 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: getting treatment at a hospital. So when you have patients 696 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: that are more VIP, especially when they're not very open 697 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: about getting plastic and cosmetic procedures and things, what do 698 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: you do in that circumstance do you have to? I mean, 699 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 1: I understand HIPPA exists, but people break it all the time, right, 700 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: So how do you ensure that these celebrities can kind 701 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: of come in and out of where you're doing surgery 702 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: and not get caught so to speak. 703 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: So I am well versed in celebrity surgery because I 704 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: treated seer signing. So when I started, when I started 705 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 2: general surgery at See Your SIGNI we signed a agreement 706 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 2: this big and they had basically every celebrity was like 707 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 2: at the time. I'm sure it's different now at higher tech, 708 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 2: but there was a pager associated with all the celebrity charts, 709 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 2: and every time they were accessed, someone would check and 710 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 2: see if it was appropriate access. And you were literally 711 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 2: fired off a spot at Sedars if they found you 712 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 2: in a chart. And one of my friends was actually 713 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 2: that happened to him. He was doing research and he 714 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 2: properly opened a patient's chart who was a celebrity for 715 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 2: a project that he was doing, and was immediately fired 716 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 2: and it took a couple of weeks to get him 717 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 2: back on staff. So that's how serious theaters sign I 718 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 2: takes things, which is why you rarely have leaks for Cedars. 719 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 2: I'll tell you that celebrities get some of the worst 720 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,959 Speaker 2: care I've seen in medicine because people do weird shit 721 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 2: for them, and I decided early on in my career 722 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 2: that celebrities would not be treated differently. In my practice, 723 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 2: I do not shut things down. I don't come after hours. 724 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 2: I don't do weird stuff because I want them to 725 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 2: get the best, high quality care that all of my 726 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 2: patients get. I don't believe in VIPs, so in my 727 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 2: personal practice, I don't do anything special for them. Other 728 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 2: than I will obviously, we change their names often in 729 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: the computer, so they have that as an extra level 730 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,879 Speaker 2: of protection. And we always can accommodate people if they're 731 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 2: trying not. 732 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: To be seen coming in and out of the office. 733 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: But other than that, I don't do. 734 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 2: A whole lot, which you know, I think celebrities are funny. 735 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 2: Some celebrities really really want to be treated differently, and 736 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 2: they're never going to find a home in my practice, 737 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 2: and you will find that elsewhere. But I think a 738 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 2: lot of celebrities actually appreciate being treated like a regular human. 739 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: I huntred percent believe in what you're saying about the 740 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: VIPs getting the worst treatment. I've seen it in real 741 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: life at the hospital for example, Like if they would 742 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: come down and tell us, I don't even know why 743 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: they would tell us that we were getting a VIP specimen, 744 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: because we treat every specimen the same exact way, and 745 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: in fact, we would do things like normal things that 746 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: are considered procedure to do a frozen section on like 747 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: what is appropriate for frozen section versus permanent section, and 748 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: they would be like, oh, we'll just freeze it, and 749 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: we would like maybe we shouldn't do that because we 750 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: might ruin the tissue. And but they want to give 751 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: the answers right then and there. And then when you 752 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: when you skip procedures, that's when things get screwed up. 753 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: And every week in the gross Room, I write about 754 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: celebrity death dissections and high profile death dissections, and I 755 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: really go through their autopsy reports and see, like what 756 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: caused these celebrities to die? And every single time, it's 757 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: because they were getting some kind of extra treatment that 758 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 1: is not normal protocol, whether it's showing up at their 759 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: house giving them drugs they don't need, whatever it is 760 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: giving them surgeries they don't need. And it's it's just 761 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: interesting that you say that because I have a thing 762 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: that I say, like the VIP treatment is the worst treatment. 763 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: It's it's just really interesting that you see that from 764 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: your perspective as well. Yeah, I've seen plastic surgery, general surgery, 765 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: I've seen it, every specialty. You know, if you are 766 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 1: a celebrity listening to this, just you want normal, evidence 767 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: based care. You don't want something special, because special is 768 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: never better. Yeah, I one hundred percent agree. I saw 769 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 1: on your website that you have some other kinds of 770 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: medical professionals working for you, including pas and nurse practitioners. 771 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: I do. That's that's cool. I love. I love to 772 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: hear that because I always you know, some people listening 773 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: to this might right now might say I can't go 774 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: to college for fifteen years or do training for fifteen years, 775 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,919 Speaker 1: But there are lesser degrees you can get and still 776 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: have a place in your field. So what are some 777 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: things that they're able to do in your field and 778 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: what are some of their limitations because of their education? Sure, 779 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: so I shout out to Amy and Christina. Amy is 780 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: my nurse practitioner. 781 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 2: Christina's my PA, and they are their mind because they're 782 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 2: part of my team, not because I busness them. People 783 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 2: always get mad at me on social when I say that, 784 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 2: but they're both. 785 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: Exceptional and this is what they do in their role. 786 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,840 Speaker 1: So Christina my PA. 787 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,879 Speaker 2: She actually has experienced in the emergency room like you, right, 788 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,879 Speaker 2: I believe, and she did orthopedic surgery before she came 789 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,800 Speaker 2: in worked with me. So her role on my team 790 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: is she hangs out with me for new patient consults 791 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 2: and helps me take notes to make sure I get 792 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 2: all the charts correct. She is the queen of my 793 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 2: preop evaluation. She's the one that will be in the 794 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 2: room with you for an hour or two hours, however 795 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 2: long you need, so that you understand clearly the surgery 796 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 2: and the post op requirements. And then I come in, 797 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 2: you know, and at the very end, and patients never 798 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 2: have questions because she's so exceptional and answers everything so well. 799 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 2: And she assists me in the operating room. So she 800 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 2: is my first assist in the operating room. And it's 801 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,800 Speaker 2: amazing it surgery is so smooth. When you have a 802 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 2: good you are only as good as your assistant in 803 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 2: the operating room. So that's Christina's role. So she doesn't 804 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 2: perform the surgery by herself. She's assisting me in surgery. 805 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 2: But so that's really the main limitation. But I think 806 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 2: she has a really important role. She helps me keep 807 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 2: my patients safer and she helps me get them out 808 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 2: of the operating room fast, which is safer for patients. 809 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 2: And she's just exceptional my nurse practitioner, and this is 810 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 2: a unique role in my practice. Not many people have this. 811 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 2: She helps me taking care of patients post up. So 812 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,879 Speaker 2: we have a like an encrypted testing system and we 813 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 2: hook patients up directly with her, and so she is 814 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 2: immediately available for them for the first month after surgery 815 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 2: to help them with anything they're concerned about. And it 816 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,800 Speaker 2: was interesting for me. I think I'm a very good educator, 817 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 2: and patients would rarely call me at night or after hours, 818 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 2: and I was like, cause I'm so good, And as 819 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 2: soon as we hired Amy, there was a million calls 820 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 2: and I realized that no matter how friendly, nice and 821 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 2: lovely I am, there is a power dynamic. I think 822 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 2: patients are act comfortable bringing concerns to me, and it's 823 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 2: been really wonderful for patients because they have someone who's 824 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 2: a little bit separated who can help them with you know, 825 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 2: why is my dressing have blood on it? You know 826 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 2: this list looks swollen? Am I supposed to be bruised? 827 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 2: Here is my leg's supposed to it? 828 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: You know? 829 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 2: Questions they weren't comfortable asking me, They are comfortable asking Amy, 830 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 2: And then Amy can help alleviate their anxiety because I 831 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 2: always say anxiety. 832 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: Is the enemy of feelings. 833 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 2: So both of them have a very important role in 834 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 2: my practice and they just allow me to take better 835 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 2: care of patients. Both of them also do some laser 836 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,320 Speaker 2: and aesthetic treatments, so lasers, fillers, botox, that kind of stuff. 837 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: They don't full time do it. We do have a. 838 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 2: Nurse practitioner in our practice who does That's all she 839 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 2: does is non invasive treatments, but the two that I 840 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 2: primarily work with just dabble in it with my patients 841 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 2: in addition to other patient care things they do. 842 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: I love that actually, because I because I've been a 843 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 1: patient before of cosmetic procedure and you always think, like, 844 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: is this normal. I don't, but I would ever want 845 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 1: to bother the doctor with certain things. And I remember 846 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: when I when I came home from my trip because 847 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,280 Speaker 1: I had to go to Miami to get my surgery. 848 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: And when I came home, I went to pet my cat, 849 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: and my cat bit my hand. I guess she was 850 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: just pissed that I had left her for like a 851 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: week and that was the only time I ever left her, 852 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 1: so she just I don't know what happened, but I 853 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: just went down this rabbit hole of like, oh my god, 854 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: I'm healing from the surgery. What if I get some 855 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: weird bacteria infection in my hand? And I went back 856 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,800 Speaker 1: and forth, and I was like, ah, should I call 857 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: all right, I'll finally call him. And I felt so 858 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 1: guilty because it was like a Friday night or something terrible, 859 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,360 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to bother them. But so it 860 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: is nice to have to have a person that is 861 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: kind of that you could contact in that kind of 862 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: situation like that you just just from the patient's perspective. Anyway, 863 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: I love I always felt. So. I never did work 864 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: in the eer. I've only worked in the lab, but 865 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,759 Speaker 1: at the entire time that I worked in the lab, 866 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: I went from working in just like clinical lab stuff, 867 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,840 Speaker 1: blood work and everything to pathology. And I had a 868 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: high concentration of working with surgeons all the time because 869 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: of doing frozen sections and doing the gross pathology in 870 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: surgical pathology. And I always found that the best surgeons 871 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: were ones like you who really respect your your co 872 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: workers and the other medical professionals that are working under you, 873 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: and recognize that they're helping you be and they're just 874 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 1: like a necessory to you being a great surgeon. And 875 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: trust me, there's been times where we've had doctors come 876 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,359 Speaker 1: down and talk because us working in surgical pathology were 877 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: pas too, and they would come down and talk down 878 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: to us and didn't respect their nurses and their pas, 879 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,320 Speaker 1: and it just it just shows in my opinion, who's 880 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: a good surgeon that I would feel like going to, 881 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: versus not that thinks that people are below them kind of. 882 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: I've gotten that vibe off of some surgeons before. Oh yeah, 883 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: I mean they're just all of these different roles in medicine. 884 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 2: We all make the patient experience and outcomes better while 885 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 2: we work together. And if we work against each other, 886 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 2: I think, you know, all the truth battles are so silly. 887 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 2: We're so much stronger as a team when we all 888 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,640 Speaker 2: use our talents together to give patients better care. 889 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you there. There's just there's just 890 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: some mega egos going on with. 891 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,399 Speaker 2: Some people, there is, and surgery has the majority of them, 892 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 2: as you know. 893 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: But I love some ct Like there's some surgeons that 894 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: I was that would come downstairs and be like, yo, Nicole, 895 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 1: what's up? Like that? 896 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 2: Right? 897 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 1: They were like so cool? And then I would go 898 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,239 Speaker 1: look them up and I'd be like, holy shit, that 899 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,720 Speaker 1: guy's a big deal. Like I can't believe he's so cool, 900 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 1: you know. And I I a lot of them that 901 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 1: that I would go to. I mean, not that I 902 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 1: have any kind of like kidney problems now, but like, 903 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: I know who I would go to if I did, 904 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,840 Speaker 1: because I'm like that dude was awesome, you know. So 905 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that you're that you're like that 906 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,400 Speaker 1: and given shout outs to your PA and your nurse practitioners. 907 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: That's really cool. So what's let's hear before we wrap 908 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,399 Speaker 1: this up, Like, what's going on in your life right now? 909 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 1: You you have kids? You said I do. 910 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,280 Speaker 2: I have two kids. My daughter is and was is eleven. 911 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, there's they're they're the best. 912 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 2: It's having kids is the wildest journey because you get 913 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,919 Speaker 2: to watch like things about yourself. You're like, oh my god, 914 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 2: I do that too, should not do that? And then 915 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 2: the good things about yourself too you get to see 916 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:14,799 Speaker 2: in your kids. 917 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:15,239 Speaker 1: It's wild. 918 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:20,280 Speaker 2: And I have a hobby. I have Dalmatians, and I 919 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,280 Speaker 2: have gotten into the world of showing and dog sports 920 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 2: the last that's so cool. And my daughter started doing it, 921 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,720 Speaker 2: so she's I'm doing junior handler or junior showmanship showing 922 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,160 Speaker 2: one of our dogs. So yeah, I mean that's kind 923 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 2: of what I have. I always have something going on. 924 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 2: I need, like I like to hyper. 925 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:36,160 Speaker 1: Fixate on hobby. 926 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:37,839 Speaker 2: So I'll probably do this for a couple of years 927 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,760 Speaker 2: until they retire, and then I'll have a new hyperfixation hobby. 928 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 1: So what you got into the TV world? How did 929 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,279 Speaker 1: that first start? So? 930 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 2: You know, LA is an interesting place because the second 931 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,479 Speaker 2: I moved back home about nine years ago, you get 932 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,840 Speaker 2: calls three times a week at least I do, people 933 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 2: trying to hunt around for people potentially on shows. 934 00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:58,760 Speaker 1: And so when. 935 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,520 Speaker 2: I I've been in LA for maybe a year and 936 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,840 Speaker 2: I got a call and they were interested in me 937 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 2: for a show and they didn't tell me what it was, 938 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,400 Speaker 2: and I did a zoom interview or whatever zoom was 939 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,960 Speaker 2: back then it was the Skype or whatever, and I 940 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 2: didn't hear from them for years. 941 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 1: It was just like I did. 942 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 2: I made it to the last step and then you know, 943 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,760 Speaker 2: everything fizzled out. And I've done lots of this sense, 944 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,720 Speaker 2: so this is kind of how you know one percent 945 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:22,320 Speaker 2: of what they. 946 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 1: Do actually makes it. 947 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 2: And then a couple of years later, I got a 948 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,719 Speaker 2: call from the casting producer and he said, hey, you know, 949 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,240 Speaker 2: E fired a bunch of people. There's a new person 950 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,480 Speaker 2: in charge who really loved this show years ago, and 951 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 2: she wants to revisit it. 952 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: Are you still interested? 953 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:39,880 Speaker 2: Is like four or five years later, and I was 954 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 2: like sure, and he said, I don't think we need 955 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,640 Speaker 2: to refilm anything because you were great in the first audition. 956 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,640 Speaker 2: I said, okay, fine. And then about four or five 957 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 2: months later, in the middle of clinic one day, I 958 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,840 Speaker 2: got a phone call from an unknown number and I 959 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 2: answered it and everyone's screaming and I'm like, I don't 960 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 2: know who this is, what's going on? And it was 961 00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,279 Speaker 2: the producer and he said he picked a us up 962 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:00,960 Speaker 2: for a full. 963 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:01,840 Speaker 1: Season and they want you. 964 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,040 Speaker 2: We had a bunch of candidates and they chose you 965 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,359 Speaker 2: from the stack, so I got to be on the show. 966 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:07,120 Speaker 1: That's how it happened. 967 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 2: It was very you know, that's so cool. It was 968 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:11,280 Speaker 2: very cool. 969 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:13,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you go to work that day, it's just a 970 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,720 Speaker 1: normal day and you go, oh, I got some news 971 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,880 Speaker 1: be on a television show. And it was a great 972 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 1: experience for a couple of reasons. That the first reason 973 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,680 Speaker 1: it was great, I made a very dear friend. Michelle 974 00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,640 Speaker 1: Lee is one of the other surgeons on the show, 975 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 1: and her and I are very good friends. And that's 976 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,320 Speaker 1: the best part of a show is gaining a wonderful 977 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:33,239 Speaker 1: lifetime friend like. 978 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 2: That, and then I just I love reality TV. 979 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: So I love the. 980 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 2: Process of like knowing how it works. I love the crew. 981 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,319 Speaker 2: Some of our crew worked on like RuPaul's Drive Race 982 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,440 Speaker 2: and the Kardashians, and it was fun hearing all their 983 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 2: behind the scenes story. Our showrunner, what Lori Gordon, was 984 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:53,320 Speaker 2: a Emmy Award winning, our producer did the original Doctor 985 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,520 Speaker 2: nine or two and zero and if botched, Like it's 986 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,040 Speaker 2: just the cast of people we worked with was so incredible. 987 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,319 Speaker 2: It was really fun part and it just sucked. It 988 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,400 Speaker 2: was a you know, Casulty of twenty twenty. You know, 989 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,279 Speaker 2: e was bought by Peacock and they just kind of 990 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 2: canned everything that didn't have another season already in the work, so, 991 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 2: you know, one season show. 992 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 1: But it was a good time. So you so it 993 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,480 Speaker 1: sounds like you'd be interested in doing something again if 994 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,719 Speaker 1: the opportunity arose. Yeah. 995 00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 2: I get offered things here and there, but I think 996 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,239 Speaker 2: that had such a powerful experience with that it would 997 00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,200 Speaker 2: be hard for me to take something that didn't live 998 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 2: up to that expectation. They were really great about allowing 999 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 2: me to show the things that were important to me, 1000 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,040 Speaker 2: like breast reconstruction and dealing with people with like chest 1001 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 2: wall deformities, and to show more of what I do 1002 00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,560 Speaker 2: and not just the typical fluff. 1003 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,320 Speaker 1: Plastic surgery that you see. Yeah, which I think is 1004 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 1: important because people need to know that some of the 1005 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,120 Speaker 1: complications that lots of women go through and how and 1006 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: how they could be fixed. It's not the end of 1007 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,560 Speaker 1: the world if it happens necessarily. All right, Well, thanks 1008 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:55,439 Speaker 1: so much for being here today. It was so nice 1009 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,439 Speaker 1: meeting you, and I think that everybody got to learn 1010 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,359 Speaker 1: a lot about this. I'm sure people listening right now 1011 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,880 Speaker 1: have implants and maybe didn't even hear all of this 1012 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,960 Speaker 1: from their surgeons, so it's really awesome, and I think 1013 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,440 Speaker 1: you explained everything in a way that's very easy for 1014 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,279 Speaker 1: everyone to understand. Thank you, Thank you so much for 1015 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:20,239 Speaker 1: having me. This was really fun, awesome, Thanks thank you 1016 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 1: for listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder, my 1017 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,160 Speaker 1: training is as a pathologist's assistant. I have a master's 1018 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:33,319 Speaker 1: level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I 1019 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 1: am not a doctor, and I have not diagnosed or 1020 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,239 Speaker 1: treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of a 1021 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:44,680 Speaker 1: licensed medical doctor. This show My website and social media 1022 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,000 Speaker 1: accounts are designed to educate and inform people based on 1023 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 1: my experience working in pathology, so they can make healthier 1024 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,920 Speaker 1: decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember that 1025 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,040 Speaker 1: science is changing every day and the opinions expressed in 1026 00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: this episode are based on my knowledge of those subjects 1027 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,520 Speaker 1: at the time of publication. If you are having a 1028 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:11,480 Speaker 1: medical problem, have a medical question, or having a medical emergency, 1029 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,440 Speaker 1: please contact your physician or visit an urgent care center, 1030 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:20,360 Speaker 1: emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review, and subscribe to 1031 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:24,759 Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you 1032 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:36,399 Speaker 1: get podcasts. Thanks