WEBVTT - Shapearl Wells on A Slight Change of Plans Podcast 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.240 Hi, everyone, It's Alison Flowers from the Somebody podcast. We're 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.880 sharing another special podcast with you this week, A Slight 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.520 Change of Plans, which was just named Apple Podcasts Best 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.360 Show of the Year. Hosted by Maya Schenker, A Slight 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:19.880 Change of Plans is all about understanding the science of change. 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.959 That understanding, mixed with a healthy dose of compassion, has 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.640 made the show a perfect antidote for the times we're 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.560 living in. Maya has interviewed celebrities like Tiffany Hattish and 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:35.080 Casey Musgraves, but she's interviewed real life inspirations to people 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.000 who have dealt with cancer diagnoses or the loss of 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.800 a loved one and somehow managed to learn and grow 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.640 from those hard experiences. We challenge you to listen to 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:50.280 an episode and not be inspired. In this episode, Maya 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:55.000 talks to Chapel about Courtney's story and Chaparral's continued fight 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.160 for the truth. You can find more episodes of A 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:12.240 Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts. I 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:16.480 remember that night like it was yesterday. I could still 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.600 hear the thunderous beat in my head, and I remember 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.120 being so startled out of my sleep because I've never 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:28.840 experienced such a bamming at my door, so it shocked me, 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:34.400 and I knew that something bad had happened. That's Chaparral 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.560 Wells describing the moment when Chicago police officers showed up 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.360 on her doorstep in the middle of the night. Her 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.759 oldest child, her twenty two year old son, Courtney Copeland, 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.560 had been fatally shot. Chaparl needed answers about what had 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.280 happened in Courtney's final moments, but it soon became clear 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.240 she wasn't going to get them unless she took matters 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:01.520 into her own hands. It wasn't by choice that I 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:06.160 took this journey in investigating my son's murder. I had 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:11.519 no other option. Chaparral did not know at the time 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.480 that she spent the next five years trying to figure 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:19.480 out what exactly had happened to Courtney. On today's episode, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.679 a mother channels her grief into justice for her son. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.360 I'm Maya Shankar, and this is a slight change of plants, 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.160 a show about who we are and who we become 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:40.440 in the face of a big change. Chaparral was grieving 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.600 the loss of her son, Courtney, but her grieving process 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.560 was complicated by the fact there were so many unanswered 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:50.520 questions surrounding his death. I wanted to hear about her 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:54.400 psychological journey through all this, how she balanced her dual 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:59.200 identities as mom and investigator, and importantly, I wanted to 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.720 know how all her advocacy may have changed her relationship 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.920 with Courtney's death. I started off our conversation by asking 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.320 Chaperl about the kind of person Courtney was. He was 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.400 such a loving person. I s always come home, like 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:18.640 from dropping off the kids at school, and he'll be here, 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.240 and he'll come up and he'll be all in my bed. 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.760 And I remember even in his team, and when he 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.280 was even grown, he'd be like, can you just rubbed 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.679 on my ears? You know? He was just like so affectionate. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:36.400 And I would say one of the best memories I 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.240 have for Courtney is him being the glue. He was 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:44.119 someone who if there was a conflict or he would 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.920 be the first person to try to resolve it. Hey, 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.280 you guys, you know we're family. Let's pull it together. 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.800 Let's it doesn't matter what happened. Let's just resolve this 0:03:54.880 --> 0:04:00.280 and move on. I remember Courdney shortly after my mother 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.240 passed away, and Courtney and my grandmother were very close, 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.520 and he said, mom, h Grandma wanted me to keep 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:13.120 the family together. And Courtney may have been at the 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:17.400 time that she passed. And I was like, you know, 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:22.280 that's a huge responsibility, Courtney, I said, but she saw 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.080 something within you that felt that you could do it. 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.720 Because Courtney was the type of person, he got along 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.320 with everyone, and so he would basically try to host 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.920 family dinners lessons like this person because these are things 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:42.160 that my grandmother did, especially around holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas. 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.560 She made sure everyone got together. In addition to being 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.040 a family oriented guy, Courtney was also making great strides 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.039 in his professional life. He was a sales wrath and 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.200 he earned a special bonus that allowed him to get 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.480 at Burgundy BMW. And so I remember him pulling up 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.200 in our draw I've way probably around twelve or one 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.120 in the morning. He was like, Mom, I did it. 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.039 I did it. I got the car. I got the car. 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.960 And I remember him giving me the biggest hug and 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:12.680 he was like, you gotta come down there and see it. 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.200 And the music was blasting and he was just like 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.720 so excited. His friends were out. I mean, it's like 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.840 literally twelve thirty one o'clock in the morning and he 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.240 had called out his friends over you can't see anything, 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:27.680 and everybody was just it was like a mini party 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.840 right in the driveway. And this car wasn't just any 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.640 car to Courtney. They had a relationship. He would talk 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:39.560 to the car every morning like it was his girlfriend. 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.960 Good morning baby, how are you today? I mean, it 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.400 was just that was his life. The car was his 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.760 life for sure. Well, so yeah, I guess it symbolized 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.040 something so meaningful to him about what he had accomplished 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.080 in life and where he was heading. And it did. 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:58.440 It did. His goals were always to make sure that 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.520 we didn't have to work. It's so there didn't have 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:04.440 to do anything. So once he received that BMW bonus, 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.720 he actually pushed harder and he was working harder, talking 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:12.080 to more people and trying to get as much as 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:16.880 he could in the way of excelling his business as possible. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.279 So one night, you hear a knock on the door 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.760 at two in the morning and it's the police. Can 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.000 you take me back to that moment? Yes, I remember 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.000 that night like it was yesterday. I could still hear 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.560 the thunderous beat in my head. You know, this is 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.039 something that you never forget, these sounds, these moments where 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.200 you were. And I remember being so startled out of 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:48.480 my sleep because I've never experienced such a obaming at 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:53.120 my door, So that bamming it shocked me and I 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:58.120 knew that something bad had happened. And so when I 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.800 got to the door, the officer was like, do you 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.280 know a Courtney Copeland And I said yes, I'm his mother, 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.200 and then he said, well, we come to notify you 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:13.920 that you need to call Illinois Masignic Hospital. And at 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.640 that moment, the first thing that goes through my mind is, oh, 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.160 my god, my son has been in a terrible accident. 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.480 Something that's happened. And uh so I'm like, for a 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.680 police officer to come to your home, it has to 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:32.560 be extremely serious. So I remember my husband he had 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.360 jumped out of bed as well. And by this time 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.280 I'm focusing on Okay, I have to go change my 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.600 clothes and get ready because they're telling us that we 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.560 have to go to this hospital. And so my husband 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.000 is talking to them and I was like, well, Brent 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.160 called the hospital, let's see what's happening. And I'm putting 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.520 on my clothes, and they said, we can't tell you 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:57.000 over the phone. You need to come in. Once that happened, 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:01.040 once he uttered those words, I remember being in my 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:06.440 bedroom and just falling to the floor because I just 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:11.520 felt in my gut that them telling you that they 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.280 can't tell you on the phone, this must be bad. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:20.000 And then once I arrived to the hospital, UH, I 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:21.680 told him who I was. I said, I'm here to 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:25.600 see Courtney Copeland. And then they said, well, we need 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.200 to take you to the family room. And I remember, 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.800 just like it just happened just now, when they said that, 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.160 I was like, I'm not going. I'm not going into 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.240 the family room because in that moment, you know that 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:43.280 your child is gone. And so I said, at that point, 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.400 I started to demand to see Courtney, and they were like, 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:48.559 we can't allow you to see him. And I'm like, 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:56.480 you know, it was an emotional, emotional moment because everyone 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.679 knew at that moment that Courtney was gone. But you know, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.200 as a mom, you want to see that confirmation. You 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:07.199 want to you want to see your child. And UH, 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:12.280 they were at first denying us the right to see Courtney, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:16.000 and they were denying us, uh, the right to even 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.040 really know a lot of information about him. What was 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.079 the reason they wouldn't let you see Courtney, Well, because 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:29.080 it was a murder investigation. And so they said that 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.600 the police had already determined that this was a murder 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.400 and that no one is to be able to see him, 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.240 and so they said their protocol is to send them 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:44.559 directly to the morgue. And so about forty five minutes 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.880 to an hour, the doctor finally comes and tells us 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.800 what happened. And so we're in the family room and 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.679 at this time it's about thirty family members that are 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.079 with us, and his friends, his closest friends, and they 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.480 were like, you know, the doctor came in that your 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.960 son was brought in by ambulance and he was shot, 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.240 and all of us just like shot by who? And 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.040 we all fell to the ground because we couldn't believe. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:15.040 I mean, because for Courtney to be shot, it was 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:19.680 just something that was unfathomable about him, of all people 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.960 being shot, he was not, you know violent, he you know, 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.760 if if he saw confrontation, Courtney would leave. So for 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.320 them to tell us that he had been shot, we 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:34.040 immediately said, by who? Who did this to him? After 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.720 nearly two hours of Pleading with hospital doctors and staff, 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.760 Chapel was finally allowed to see her son. She and 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.240 her family made their way to the trauma ward, where 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.240 Courtney was lying on a hospital bed. I would probably 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.319 say that was probably the hardest moment of my life 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:58.920 to be able to see him in that state. You know, 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:05.880 I remember so vividly when we first walked in the room, 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.439 and you know, all of my family was there, and 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:14.080 I can I can remember myself just telling everybody, I 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:17.480 need to be along with my baby. I need a moment. 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.000 I need him to note that you know, Mommy was 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:26.439 sorry that she wasn't there. You know, I just imagine 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:31.240 my son going through all this trauma by himself and 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.679 not having his mom there, and that was hard for me. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:41.560 And I remember touching him and kissing him and his 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:46.040 his body was still warm, and you know, you know 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:50.280 those moments you just think about all of the time 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.800 that you had and and and they're rushing back every 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:59.679 moment from birth and him into this moment where you 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.360 get at him for his final days, his final seconds, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:08.760 his final hours, and there's that very final moment when 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:15.439 you're getting ready to say goodbye. Mm hmm, there's a 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.199 moment at the hospital that night where when you feel 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:26.920 more than just grief. Yes, after we view Courtney, the 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.240 two detectives that allow us to see him, they begin 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:36.200 to question us about Courtney in the vehicle. The first 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.480 question they asked was who was the owner of the 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:43.280 BMW And I said, Courtney. Courtney is owner of the BMW. 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.240 And I said, but he did have a co signer. 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:52.680 So on my mind, I was thinking, maybe, uh, this 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.800 was a traffic stop gone wrong, because why would you 0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:00.240 be questioning you know, I'm thinking detectives. If they're telling 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.640 me that my son was shot and killed by unknowned assailant, 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.120 then the first thing should have been you know, where 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.199 was he going on? Who was he with? What? What 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:14.040 information do you know? But to question the vehicle it 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:19.040 made me suspicious of their intent. Maybe they thought that 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.640 Courtney had stolen the vehicle. It was like to me 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.439 they were interrogating Courtney as opposed to trying to find 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:30.320 out who could have done this to him. So at 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:32.960 this point, Chaparl, you decide to take matters into your 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.400 own hands and you go int a full investigator mode. 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.200 I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, and it's 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.880 hard to imagine where I'd even begin. Well, you know, 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.520 it wasn't by choice that I took this journey in 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:55.680 investigating my son's murder. I had no other option. I 0:13:55.800 --> 0:14:01.400 felt that Courtney deserved two have clothosure. I mean it 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.160 was like day in and day out from the moment 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.720 I found out that Courtney had been killed. I needed 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.760 to know why. I still need to know why, and 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.720 I needed to know how, how did these things occur? 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.600 What happened? And so you know, within my being, it 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.800 was just constantly turning all of these unknowns and I 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:27.560 had to try to uncover whatever I could. I mean, literally, 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:34.200 we were we were working. We were working on Courtney's case. Seven. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:39.160 I don't think I slept the first week, because I 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.080 would maybe sleep like two to three hours because I 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:48.480 was constantly going over the timeline. I was recording what 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:52.040 my thoughts were, any tips, I was putting it in there. 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.080 We were going out in the neighborhood. We were walking, 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.880 uh looking for clues. We were talking to his friends 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.920 that he would have encountered that night. So we were 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.720 literally we had all boots on the streets trying to 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:10.800 figure out what happened. Mm hmm. You eventually tracked down 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.720 Courtney's hospital records. What did the records say? You know, 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:20.440 at the time that I actually received the medical records, 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:26.160 I had already had suspicions that something was wrong. So 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:30.240 the first page of the medical documents was the Chicago 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:35.200 Fire Department run sheet, and that particular run sheet, the 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:41.520 first paragraph of it it states that my son was violent, agitated, combative, 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:46.680 and a threat to others. And so I knew in 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.280 my heart, because I know my son, that this information 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.400 had to be wrong. As I continued to read, it 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:59.200 says and the patient was handcuffed. When I saw that 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.200 my son was handcuffed, I lost it. I mean, I 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.600 was just like, why would you handcuffed somebody who who 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.880 was dying and he went to you for help? And 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.600 so none of this made any sense to me, and 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.120 it only hyped my suspicion. You know, you felt a 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.760 little comfort and knowing that at least he was will 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.760 cared for on the scene, but when you find out 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:29.160 that that was not true, it just crushed me. Throughout 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.560 your investigation, you and members of the community are sharing 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.920 leads with the police, but they seemed to be falling 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:40.120 on deaf ears. In fact, the police department goes totally 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:44.120 silent on you for an entire year. What tactics do 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:48.400 you use to try to keep their attention on Courtney's case. Well, 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:53.640 we actually did rallies outside of the district. We marched 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:58.520 on the mayor office, and we also canvas the neighborhoods. 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.960 We talk to neighbors who hit video cameras. We requested 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.320 for your information freedom of information acts so that that 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.360 way we can get all the tapes, the audio, the visual, 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:16.919 the pod cameras, everything that surrounded this case. Chaparral was 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.240 intent on getting access to the footage surrounding Courtney's death 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.600 and began searching the web for potential partners who could 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.879 help her. One night, around two thirty in the morning, 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.960 she came across an article about Lakwan McDonald, the seventeen 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.240 year old who was fatally shot by a Chicago police officer. 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:39.520 In the article cited a nonprofit called the Invisible Institute. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:43.040 The institute had played a key role in getting footage 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:48.280 released from Lakwan McDonald's case, and so I said, well, 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.879 at this point, I have nothing to lose. I'm gonna 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.119 write to the Invisible Institute to see if I can 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.560 get some help with trying to get the video tapes 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.600 and the audio tapes that we know the police have 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.960 surrounding Courtney's case, because at that point I was only 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.320 looking for someone to listen to me and to hear me, 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.000 because I felt like everything I was saying as a mom, 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.360 it was being misconstrued as I'm just grieving mom and 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.639 none of this have any merit. But what I was 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.320 showing to the world, what I wanted the world to understand, 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:27.080 that there are a lot of inconsistencies in this case. Yeah, 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.280 it's so interesting how when you occupy the role of mom, 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:35.760 there's there's a presumption that emotions bias, all that stuff 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.040 is creeping in when in actuality, you were holding yourself 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.960 to a very rigorous process and you were just trying 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:46.840 to find the facts. Yes, very early on, my friend Santita, 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.760 she told me, you don't want to come to a conclusion. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:51.919 You want to arrive at the conclusion. You want to 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:56.000 let the evidence lead you to what happened to your son. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:01.440 And so that was one of the cruise to advices 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.520 that I received and that I tried to adapt during 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:10.720 the whole process, that I wanted to naturally allow the 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:15.680 evidence to tell us what happened to Courdney. I'm wondering 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:20.240 whether strategies you use to try and gain more credibility 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.600 in the eyes of the police force, giving your status 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.520 as quote mom. You know, I think that they were 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.080 dismissive because I was a mom, They were dismissive because 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.720 I was black, all of these things. And I don't 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.000 know if they would treat everyone like that, but I 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.359 felt that they treated me very badly. But I I 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:45.800 believe that they felt that because I'm not um, I 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:49.080 didn't go to law school, I didn't go to the 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:54.160 police academy, that therefore that my only knowledge about solving 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:59.520 crimes is uh, Special Victims Unit on Law and Order. 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.560 That's what That's what they basically thought that I was doing. 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.720 And just like I told them, I said, no, this 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.080 is basic information. I mean, you know, I had to 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:15.080 actually read a lot of terminology. I had to understand 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.160 everything that I was reading in their reports. Some things 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.240 I didn't understand and I had to go and look 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.080 it up. Well what does this mean when they say this? 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:25.920 What is what does these code me? And police language? 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.600 So in order for me to understand that, I had 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.359 to actually reach out to a couple of police officer 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:33.679 of friends that I know. Had to reach out to 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.880 so share of people that I know and to try 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.720 to figure out the terminology so I can understand on 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.800 their level. Same with the autopsic reports. A lot of 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:48.199 medical terminology I didn't know, so as a mom I 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.520 had to take off my mom emotional world and put 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:56.200 on my investigative mode. Had and tried to figure out 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.240 what happened to my son. So I wanted to know 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.520 all the ins and outs, how the bullet travel everything. 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:04.840 And people were like, this is just too much. It's 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.560 too much, You're doing too much, and I will tell them, no, 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.680 I need to know. I need to know how how 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:15.520 did my son pass away? I need to know. Together 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.960 with the Invisible Institute, Chapearl continued to advocate for the 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:23.199 release of footage from Courtney's final moments, and finally the 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.119 police agreed to turn it over. One and a half 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:30.320 years after Courtney's death, I asked Chaparl what it was 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.600 like to hold those videos in her hands for the 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:41.159 first time. You know, I remember receiving the videos in 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:47.840 my mailbox and I had prepared myself all right, came 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:52.800 up in my room, set up the DVD player, got 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.240 prepared to watch it. I prayed before I loaded it 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.520 because I knew it was going to be hard to 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:03.600 actually see it. I pop it in and it tells 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:07.320 me it's in a format that I can't even read. 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:13.719 So I remember feeling this, this horrible, horrible feeling like 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.560 they're playing with me, They're playing with my emotions. They 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.000 knew that they sent me a format that I couldn't read, 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:23.119 so I remember just crying out and I called the 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.520 Invisible Institute to ask them if they can decode it. 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.919 So the moment that we get the video tape decoded, 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:37.200 I remember the Invisible Institute being with me, and all 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.320 I could see is my son just like reaching up 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:47.800 on his knees, begging them to help, begging. He surrounded 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:52.280 by eight to ten cops and my son is begging 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:58.800 to be helped. And then the video cuts away and 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:05.080 focuses on the police station for two minutes, and so 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:08.040 I'm like, what is happening to my son? I'm panicking 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.080 because I don't even know what's happening at this point. 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.560 Why would the video just automatically turn away from the 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:22.119 scene into we're watching the police station. And then the 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:26.040 next frame is when they aggressively picked up my son 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:30.600 off the ground, throw him against the police car and 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:33.520 then onto the gurney as if he was a ragged 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:42.320 out And that's why I often tell people, it's so hard, 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:48.120 it's so hard to even imagine the emotions that my son. 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:53.879 I just know my son was just so confused, like 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:57.880 police are supposed to be here to serve and protect you, 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:05.840 and I'm shocked, I'm scared what's happening. And this is 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:10.520 what his final moments were, and he was by himself. 0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:13.679 And I told people all the time that's like the 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:18.359 hardest thing for me as a mom to know that 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:22.200 he endured all this by himself, and there was nobody 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:28.880 there who cared enough for him to help him through 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:35.159 this and to comfort him in these moments. Not a 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:50.080 soul was there. Yeah, we'll be back in a moment 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:57.359 with a slight change of plans. Over the next several years, 0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:01.240 Chapel Wells continued to push for further charity around what 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:06.240 actually happened to her son, Courtney Copeland. In September, she 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:10.440 received some news from the City of Chicago. Chaparral's advocacy 0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:13.920 had paid off. The Office of the Inspector General, an 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:18.320 independent watchdog agency, had decided to launch a formal investigation 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:24.880 into Courtney's case. The investigation is currently under way. Where 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:28.560 do you go from here, Chaparral. A lot of people say, 0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:31.439 you know, don't put too much stock and what this 0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:38.760 report shows m hm. But I think that what happened 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:45.359 to Courtney has to be addressed on all levels of 0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:50.560 city government, state government, federal government, because I feel that 0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:57.879 these incidents occur far more frequently than police shootings, but 0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:03.080 they don't get the highlight and the notoriety because it's 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:06.879 not the police pulling the trigger or a beat down 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:11.080 or a knee on the neck. But these type of 0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:18.159 incidents of racial profiling and the police accountability need to 0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:23.280 be addressed. So I'm looking for more legislative changes to 0:26:23.400 --> 0:26:28.520 see if the Inspector General kid make UH policy changes 0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:34.439 that would change the policy from they can intervene until 0:26:34.480 --> 0:26:38.879 they must intervene to help to save more lives. Because 0:26:38.920 --> 0:26:41.439 the reality is is that, like I said, it wasn't 0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:44.120 the fact that Courtney was shot, it was the lack 0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:48.560 of urgency to his care. You know, recently, UH Offers 0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:52.439 of French was shot in Chicago and she was killed. 0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:59.760 I listened to that traffic on the police scanner that day, 0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:03.399 and I was listening in real time. I saw how 0:27:03.840 --> 0:27:06.760 they move heaven and earth to get her to the 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:11.199 nearest trauma center as they should. As they should, But 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:15.119 that same care that they put for offers of French 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:20.000 should go for every citizen in Chicago in the United States. 0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:23.680 There should be no respect of person because of their title. 0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:28.520 But everybody deserves a fighting chance. And so if we 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:34.520 make these legislative changes to ensure that everyone has the 0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:42.000 opportunity at life, then that would be justice for Courtney. 0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:46.359