Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's Alison Flowers from the Somebody podcast. We're
Speaker 1: sharing another special podcast with you this week, A Slight
Speaker 1: Change of Plans, which was just named Apple Podcasts Best
Speaker 1: Show of the Year. Hosted by Maya Schenker, A Slight
Speaker 1: Change of Plans is all about understanding the science of change.
Speaker 1: That understanding, mixed with a healthy dose of compassion, has
Speaker 1: made the show a perfect antidote for the times we're
Speaker 1: living in. Maya has interviewed celebrities like Tiffany Hattish and
Speaker 1: Casey Musgraves, but she's interviewed real life inspirations to people
Speaker 1: who have dealt with cancer diagnoses or the loss of
Speaker 1: a loved one and somehow managed to learn and grow
Speaker 1: from those hard experiences. We challenge you to listen to
Speaker 1: an episode and not be inspired. In this episode, Maya
Speaker 1: talks to Chapel about Courtney's story and Chaparral's continued fight
Speaker 1: for the truth. You can find more episodes of A
Speaker 1: Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts. I
Speaker 1: remember that night like it was yesterday. I could still
Speaker 1: hear the thunderous beat in my head, and I remember
Speaker 1: being so startled out of my sleep because I've never
Speaker 1: experienced such a bamming at my door, so it shocked me,
Speaker 1: and I knew that something bad had happened. That's Chaparral
Speaker 1: Wells describing the moment when Chicago police officers showed up
Speaker 1: on her doorstep in the middle of the night. Her
Speaker 1: oldest child, her twenty two year old son, Courtney Copeland,
Speaker 1: had been fatally shot. Chaparl needed answers about what had
Speaker 1: happened in Courtney's final moments, but it soon became clear
Speaker 1: she wasn't going to get them unless she took matters
Speaker 1: into her own hands. It wasn't by choice that I
Speaker 1: took this journey in investigating my son's murder. I had
Speaker 1: no other option. Chaparral did not know at the time
Speaker 1: that she spent the next five years trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what exactly had happened to Courtney. On today's episode,
Speaker 1: a mother channels her grief into justice for her son.
Speaker 1: I'm Maya Shankar, and this is a slight change of plants,
Speaker 1: a show about who we are and who we become
Speaker 1: in the face of a big change. Chaparral was grieving
Speaker 1: the loss of her son, Courtney, but her grieving process
Speaker 1: was complicated by the fact there were so many unanswered
Speaker 1: questions surrounding his death. I wanted to hear about her
Speaker 1: psychological journey through all this, how she balanced her dual
Speaker 1: identities as mom and investigator, and importantly, I wanted to
Speaker 1: know how all her advocacy may have changed her relationship
Speaker 1: with Courtney's death. I started off our conversation by asking
Speaker 1: Chaperl about the kind of person Courtney was. He was
Speaker 1: such a loving person. I s always come home, like
Speaker 1: from dropping off the kids at school, and he'll be here,
Speaker 1: and he'll come up and he'll be all in my bed.
Speaker 1: And I remember even in his team, and when he
Speaker 1: was even grown, he'd be like, can you just rubbed
Speaker 1: on my ears? You know? He was just like so affectionate.
Speaker 1: And I would say one of the best memories I
Speaker 1: have for Courtney is him being the glue. He was
Speaker 1: someone who if there was a conflict or he would
Speaker 1: be the first person to try to resolve it. Hey,
Speaker 1: you guys, you know we're family. Let's pull it together.
Speaker 1: Let's it doesn't matter what happened. Let's just resolve this
Speaker 1: and move on. I remember Courdney shortly after my mother
Speaker 1: passed away, and Courtney and my grandmother were very close,
Speaker 1: and he said, mom, h Grandma wanted me to keep
Speaker 1: the family together. And Courtney may have been at the
Speaker 1: time that she passed. And I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's a huge responsibility, Courtney, I said, but she saw
Speaker 1: something within you that felt that you could do it.
Speaker 1: Because Courtney was the type of person, he got along
Speaker 1: with everyone, and so he would basically try to host
Speaker 1: family dinners lessons like this person because these are things
Speaker 1: that my grandmother did, especially around holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Speaker 1: She made sure everyone got together. In addition to being
Speaker 1: a family oriented guy, Courtney was also making great strides
Speaker 1: in his professional life. He was a sales wrath and
Speaker 1: he earned a special bonus that allowed him to get
Speaker 1: at Burgundy BMW. And so I remember him pulling up
Speaker 1: in our draw I've way probably around twelve or one
Speaker 1: in the morning. He was like, Mom, I did it.
Speaker 1: I did it. I got the car. I got the car.
Speaker 1: And I remember him giving me the biggest hug and
Speaker 1: he was like, you gotta come down there and see it.
Speaker 1: And the music was blasting and he was just like
Speaker 1: so excited. His friends were out. I mean, it's like
Speaker 1: literally twelve thirty one o'clock in the morning and he
Speaker 1: had called out his friends over you can't see anything,
Speaker 1: and everybody was just it was like a mini party
Speaker 1: right in the driveway. And this car wasn't just any
Speaker 1: car to Courtney. They had a relationship. He would talk
Speaker 1: to the car every morning like it was his girlfriend.
Speaker 1: Good morning baby, how are you today? I mean, it
Speaker 1: was just that was his life. The car was his
Speaker 1: life for sure. Well, so yeah, I guess it symbolized
Speaker 1: something so meaningful to him about what he had accomplished
Speaker 1: in life and where he was heading. And it did.
Speaker 1: It did. His goals were always to make sure that
Speaker 1: we didn't have to work. It's so there didn't have
Speaker 1: to do anything. So once he received that BMW bonus,
Speaker 1: he actually pushed harder and he was working harder, talking
Speaker 1: to more people and trying to get as much as
Speaker 1: he could in the way of excelling his business as possible.
Speaker 1: So one night, you hear a knock on the door
Speaker 1: at two in the morning and it's the police. Can
Speaker 1: you take me back to that moment? Yes, I remember
Speaker 1: that night like it was yesterday. I could still hear
Speaker 1: the thunderous beat in my head. You know, this is
Speaker 1: something that you never forget, these sounds, these moments where
Speaker 1: you were. And I remember being so startled out of
Speaker 1: my sleep because I've never experienced such a obaming at
Speaker 1: my door, So that bamming it shocked me and I
Speaker 1: knew that something bad had happened. And so when I
Speaker 1: got to the door, the officer was like, do you
Speaker 1: know a Courtney Copeland And I said yes, I'm his mother,
Speaker 1: and then he said, well, we come to notify you
Speaker 1: that you need to call Illinois Masignic Hospital. And at
Speaker 1: that moment, the first thing that goes through my mind is, oh,
Speaker 1: my god, my son has been in a terrible accident.
Speaker 1: Something that's happened. And uh so I'm like, for a
Speaker 1: police officer to come to your home, it has to
Speaker 1: be extremely serious. So I remember my husband he had
Speaker 1: jumped out of bed as well. And by this time
Speaker 1: I'm focusing on Okay, I have to go change my
Speaker 1: clothes and get ready because they're telling us that we
Speaker 1: have to go to this hospital. And so my husband
Speaker 1: is talking to them and I was like, well, Brent
Speaker 1: called the hospital, let's see what's happening. And I'm putting
Speaker 1: on my clothes, and they said, we can't tell you
Speaker 1: over the phone. You need to come in. Once that happened,
Speaker 1: once he uttered those words, I remember being in my
Speaker 1: bedroom and just falling to the floor because I just
Speaker 1: felt in my gut that them telling you that they
Speaker 1: can't tell you on the phone, this must be bad.
Speaker 1: And then once I arrived to the hospital, UH, I
Speaker 1: told him who I was. I said, I'm here to
Speaker 1: see Courtney Copeland. And then they said, well, we need
Speaker 1: to take you to the family room. And I remember,
Speaker 1: just like it just happened just now, when they said that,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not going. I'm not going into
Speaker 1: the family room because in that moment, you know that
Speaker 1: your child is gone. And so I said, at that point,
Speaker 1: I started to demand to see Courtney, and they were like,
Speaker 1: we can't allow you to see him. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, it was an emotional, emotional moment because everyone
Speaker 1: knew at that moment that Courtney was gone. But you know,
Speaker 1: as a mom, you want to see that confirmation. You
Speaker 1: want to you want to see your child. And UH,
Speaker 1: they were at first denying us the right to see Courtney,
Speaker 1: and they were denying us, uh, the right to even
Speaker 1: really know a lot of information about him. What was
Speaker 1: the reason they wouldn't let you see Courtney, Well, because
Speaker 1: it was a murder investigation. And so they said that
Speaker 1: the police had already determined that this was a murder
Speaker 1: and that no one is to be able to see him,
Speaker 1: and so they said their protocol is to send them
Speaker 1: directly to the morgue. And so about forty five minutes
Speaker 1: to an hour, the doctor finally comes and tells us
Speaker 1: what happened. And so we're in the family room and
Speaker 1: at this time it's about thirty family members that are
Speaker 1: with us, and his friends, his closest friends, and they
Speaker 1: were like, you know, the doctor came in that your
Speaker 1: son was brought in by ambulance and he was shot,
Speaker 1: and all of us just like shot by who? And
Speaker 1: we all fell to the ground because we couldn't believe.
Speaker 1: I mean, because for Courtney to be shot, it was
Speaker 1: just something that was unfathomable about him, of all people
Speaker 1: being shot, he was not, you know violent, he you know,
Speaker 1: if if he saw confrontation, Courtney would leave. So for
Speaker 1: them to tell us that he had been shot, we
Speaker 1: immediately said, by who? Who did this to him? After
Speaker 1: nearly two hours of Pleading with hospital doctors and staff,
Speaker 1: Chapel was finally allowed to see her son. She and
Speaker 1: her family made their way to the trauma ward, where
Speaker 1: Courtney was lying on a hospital bed. I would probably
Speaker 1: say that was probably the hardest moment of my life
Speaker 1: to be able to see him in that state. You know,
Speaker 1: I remember so vividly when we first walked in the room,
Speaker 1: and you know, all of my family was there, and
Speaker 1: I can I can remember myself just telling everybody, I
Speaker 1: need to be along with my baby. I need a moment.
Speaker 1: I need him to note that you know, Mommy was
Speaker 1: sorry that she wasn't there. You know, I just imagine
Speaker 1: my son going through all this trauma by himself and
Speaker 1: not having his mom there, and that was hard for me.
Speaker 1: And I remember touching him and kissing him and his
Speaker 1: his body was still warm, and you know, you know
Speaker 1: those moments you just think about all of the time
Speaker 1: that you had and and and they're rushing back every
Speaker 1: moment from birth and him into this moment where you
Speaker 1: get at him for his final days, his final seconds,
Speaker 1: his final hours, and there's that very final moment when
Speaker 1: you're getting ready to say goodbye. Mm hmm, there's a
Speaker 1: moment at the hospital that night where when you feel
Speaker 1: more than just grief. Yes, after we view Courtney, the
Speaker 1: two detectives that allow us to see him, they begin
Speaker 1: to question us about Courtney in the vehicle. The first
Speaker 1: question they asked was who was the owner of the
Speaker 1: BMW And I said, Courtney. Courtney is owner of the BMW.
Speaker 1: And I said, but he did have a co signer.
Speaker 1: So on my mind, I was thinking, maybe, uh, this
Speaker 1: was a traffic stop gone wrong, because why would you
Speaker 1: be questioning you know, I'm thinking detectives. If they're telling
Speaker 1: me that my son was shot and killed by unknowned assailant,
Speaker 1: then the first thing should have been you know, where
Speaker 1: was he going on? Who was he with? What? What
Speaker 1: information do you know? But to question the vehicle it
Speaker 1: made me suspicious of their intent. Maybe they thought that
Speaker 1: Courtney had stolen the vehicle. It was like to me
Speaker 1: they were interrogating Courtney as opposed to trying to find
Speaker 1: out who could have done this to him. So at
Speaker 1: this point, Chaparl, you decide to take matters into your
Speaker 1: own hands and you go int a full investigator mode.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, and it's
Speaker 1: hard to imagine where I'd even begin. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't by choice that I took this journey in
Speaker 1: investigating my son's murder. I had no other option. I
Speaker 1: felt that Courtney deserved two have clothosure. I mean it
Speaker 1: was like day in and day out from the moment
Speaker 1: I found out that Courtney had been killed. I needed
Speaker 1: to know why. I still need to know why, and
Speaker 1: I needed to know how, how did these things occur?
Speaker 1: What happened? And so you know, within my being, it
Speaker 1: was just constantly turning all of these unknowns and I
Speaker 1: had to try to uncover whatever I could. I mean, literally,
Speaker 1: we were we were working. We were working on Courtney's case. Seven.
Speaker 1: I don't think I slept the first week, because I
Speaker 1: would maybe sleep like two to three hours because I
Speaker 1: was constantly going over the timeline. I was recording what
Speaker 1: my thoughts were, any tips, I was putting it in there.
Speaker 1: We were going out in the neighborhood. We were walking,
Speaker 1: uh looking for clues. We were talking to his friends
Speaker 1: that he would have encountered that night. So we were
Speaker 1: literally we had all boots on the streets trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what happened. Mm hmm. You eventually tracked down
Speaker 1: Courtney's hospital records. What did the records say? You know,
Speaker 1: at the time that I actually received the medical records,
Speaker 1: I had already had suspicions that something was wrong. So
Speaker 1: the first page of the medical documents was the Chicago
Speaker 1: Fire Department run sheet, and that particular run sheet, the
Speaker 1: first paragraph of it it states that my son was violent, agitated, combative,
Speaker 1: and a threat to others. And so I knew in
Speaker 1: my heart, because I know my son, that this information
Speaker 1: had to be wrong. As I continued to read, it
Speaker 1: says and the patient was handcuffed. When I saw that
Speaker 1: my son was handcuffed, I lost it. I mean, I
Speaker 1: was just like, why would you handcuffed somebody who who
Speaker 1: was dying and he went to you for help? And
Speaker 1: so none of this made any sense to me, and
Speaker 1: it only hyped my suspicion. You know, you felt a
Speaker 1: little comfort and knowing that at least he was will
Speaker 1: cared for on the scene, but when you find out
Speaker 1: that that was not true, it just crushed me. Throughout
Speaker 1: your investigation, you and members of the community are sharing
Speaker 1: leads with the police, but they seemed to be falling
Speaker 1: on deaf ears. In fact, the police department goes totally
Speaker 1: silent on you for an entire year. What tactics do
Speaker 1: you use to try to keep their attention on Courtney's case. Well,
Speaker 1: we actually did rallies outside of the district. We marched
Speaker 1: on the mayor office, and we also canvas the neighborhoods.
Speaker 1: We talk to neighbors who hit video cameras. We requested
Speaker 1: for your information freedom of information acts so that that
Speaker 1: way we can get all the tapes, the audio, the visual,
Speaker 1: the pod cameras, everything that surrounded this case. Chaparral was
Speaker 1: intent on getting access to the footage surrounding Courtney's death
Speaker 1: and began searching the web for potential partners who could
Speaker 1: help her. One night, around two thirty in the morning,
Speaker 1: she came across an article about Lakwan McDonald, the seventeen
Speaker 1: year old who was fatally shot by a Chicago police officer.
Speaker 1: In the article cited a nonprofit called the Invisible Institute.
Speaker 1: The institute had played a key role in getting footage
Speaker 1: released from Lakwan McDonald's case, and so I said, well,
Speaker 1: at this point, I have nothing to lose. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: write to the Invisible Institute to see if I can
Speaker 1: get some help with trying to get the video tapes
Speaker 1: and the audio tapes that we know the police have
Speaker 1: surrounding Courtney's case, because at that point I was only
Speaker 1: looking for someone to listen to me and to hear me,
Speaker 1: because I felt like everything I was saying as a mom,
Speaker 1: it was being misconstrued as I'm just grieving mom and
Speaker 1: none of this have any merit. But what I was
Speaker 1: showing to the world, what I wanted the world to understand,
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of inconsistencies in this case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so interesting how when you occupy the role of mom,
Speaker 1: there's there's a presumption that emotions bias, all that stuff
Speaker 1: is creeping in when in actuality, you were holding yourself
Speaker 1: to a very rigorous process and you were just trying
Speaker 1: to find the facts. Yes, very early on, my friend Santita,
Speaker 1: she told me, you don't want to come to a conclusion.
Speaker 1: You want to arrive at the conclusion. You want to
Speaker 1: let the evidence lead you to what happened to your son.
Speaker 1: And so that was one of the cruise to advices
Speaker 1: that I received and that I tried to adapt during
Speaker 1: the whole process, that I wanted to naturally allow the
Speaker 1: evidence to tell us what happened to Courdney. I'm wondering
Speaker 1: whether strategies you use to try and gain more credibility
Speaker 1: in the eyes of the police force, giving your status
Speaker 1: as quote mom. You know, I think that they were
Speaker 1: dismissive because I was a mom, They were dismissive because
Speaker 1: I was black, all of these things. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if they would treat everyone like that, but I
Speaker 1: felt that they treated me very badly. But I I
Speaker 1: believe that they felt that because I'm not um, I
Speaker 1: didn't go to law school, I didn't go to the
Speaker 1: police academy, that therefore that my only knowledge about solving
Speaker 1: crimes is uh, Special Victims Unit on Law and Order.
Speaker 1: That's what That's what they basically thought that I was doing.
Speaker 1: And just like I told them, I said, no, this
Speaker 1: is basic information. I mean, you know, I had to
Speaker 1: actually read a lot of terminology. I had to understand
Speaker 1: everything that I was reading in their reports. Some things
Speaker 1: I didn't understand and I had to go and look
Speaker 1: it up. Well what does this mean when they say this?
Speaker 1: What is what does these code me? And police language?
Speaker 1: So in order for me to understand that, I had
Speaker 1: to actually reach out to a couple of police officer
Speaker 1: of friends that I know. Had to reach out to
Speaker 1: so share of people that I know and to try
Speaker 1: to figure out the terminology so I can understand on
Speaker 1: their level. Same with the autopsic reports. A lot of
Speaker 1: medical terminology I didn't know, so as a mom I
Speaker 1: had to take off my mom emotional world and put
Speaker 1: on my investigative mode. Had and tried to figure out
Speaker 1: what happened to my son. So I wanted to know
Speaker 1: all the ins and outs, how the bullet travel everything.
Speaker 1: And people were like, this is just too much. It's
Speaker 1: too much, You're doing too much, and I will tell them, no,
Speaker 1: I need to know. I need to know how how
Speaker 1: did my son pass away? I need to know. Together
Speaker 1: with the Invisible Institute, Chapearl continued to advocate for the
Speaker 1: release of footage from Courtney's final moments, and finally the
Speaker 1: police agreed to turn it over. One and a half
Speaker 1: years after Courtney's death, I asked Chaparl what it was
Speaker 1: like to hold those videos in her hands for the
Speaker 1: first time. You know, I remember receiving the videos in
Speaker 1: my mailbox and I had prepared myself all right, came
Speaker 1: up in my room, set up the DVD player, got
Speaker 1: prepared to watch it. I prayed before I loaded it
Speaker 1: because I knew it was going to be hard to
Speaker 1: actually see it. I pop it in and it tells
Speaker 1: me it's in a format that I can't even read.
Speaker 1: So I remember feeling this, this horrible, horrible feeling like
Speaker 1: they're playing with me, They're playing with my emotions. They
Speaker 1: knew that they sent me a format that I couldn't read,
Speaker 1: so I remember just crying out and I called the
Speaker 1: Invisible Institute to ask them if they can decode it.
Speaker 1: So the moment that we get the video tape decoded,
Speaker 1: I remember the Invisible Institute being with me, and all
Speaker 1: I could see is my son just like reaching up
Speaker 1: on his knees, begging them to help, begging. He surrounded
Speaker 1: by eight to ten cops and my son is begging
Speaker 1: to be helped. And then the video cuts away and
Speaker 1: focuses on the police station for two minutes, and so
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is happening to my son? I'm panicking
Speaker 1: because I don't even know what's happening at this point.
Speaker 1: Why would the video just automatically turn away from the
Speaker 1: scene into we're watching the police station. And then the
Speaker 1: next frame is when they aggressively picked up my son
Speaker 1: off the ground, throw him against the police car and
Speaker 1: then onto the gurney as if he was a ragged
Speaker 1: out And that's why I often tell people, it's so hard,
Speaker 1: it's so hard to even imagine the emotions that my son.
Speaker 1: I just know my son was just so confused, like
Speaker 1: police are supposed to be here to serve and protect you,
Speaker 1: and I'm shocked, I'm scared what's happening. And this is
Speaker 1: what his final moments were, and he was by himself.
Speaker 1: And I told people all the time that's like the
Speaker 1: hardest thing for me as a mom to know that
Speaker 1: he endured all this by himself, and there was nobody
Speaker 1: there who cared enough for him to help him through
Speaker 1: this and to comfort him in these moments. Not a
Speaker 1: soul was there. Yeah, we'll be back in a moment
Speaker 1: with a slight change of plans. Over the next several years,
Speaker 1: Chapel Wells continued to push for further charity around what
Speaker 1: actually happened to her son, Courtney Copeland. In September, she
Speaker 1: received some news from the City of Chicago. Chaparral's advocacy
Speaker 1: had paid off. The Office of the Inspector General, an
Speaker 1: independent watchdog agency, had decided to launch a formal investigation
Speaker 1: into Courtney's case. The investigation is currently under way. Where
Speaker 1: do you go from here, Chaparral. A lot of people say,
Speaker 1: you know, don't put too much stock and what this
Speaker 1: report shows m hm. But I think that what happened
Speaker 1: to Courtney has to be addressed on all levels of
Speaker 1: city government, state government, federal government, because I feel that
Speaker 1: these incidents occur far more frequently than police shootings, but
Speaker 1: they don't get the highlight and the notoriety because it's
Speaker 1: not the police pulling the trigger or a beat down
Speaker 1: or a knee on the neck. But these type of
Speaker 1: incidents of racial profiling and the police accountability need to
Speaker 1: be addressed. So I'm looking for more legislative changes to
Speaker 1: see if the Inspector General kid make UH policy changes
Speaker 1: that would change the policy from they can intervene until
Speaker 1: they must intervene to help to save more lives. Because
Speaker 1: the reality is is that, like I said, it wasn't
Speaker 1: the fact that Courtney was shot, it was the lack
Speaker 1: of urgency to his care. You know, recently, UH Offers
Speaker 1: of French was shot in Chicago and she was killed.
Speaker 1: I listened to that traffic on the police scanner that day,
Speaker 1: and I was listening in real time. I saw how
Speaker 1: they move heaven and earth to get her to the
Speaker 1: nearest trauma center as they should. As they should, But
Speaker 1: that same care that they put for offers of French
Speaker 1: should go for every citizen in Chicago in the United States.
Speaker 1: There should be no respect of person because of their title.
Speaker 1: But everybody deserves a fighting chance. And so if we
Speaker 1: make these legislative changes to ensure that everyone has the
Speaker 1: opportunity at life, then that would be justice for Courtney.
Speaker 1: M hm. Did you ever find your relationship at the
Speaker 1: police changing throughout this process? I mean, how you approach
Speaker 1: that change in any way? Well, I would say we
Speaker 1: still have a contentious relationship. I would say that I
Speaker 1: still have no faith in them that they would actually
Speaker 1: solve Courtney's murder. But I'm hoping that we can come
Speaker 1: to a clear understanding that Coordinate deserves justice. This was
Speaker 1: not for me um an investigation on the police to
Speaker 1: try to entrap them or to make them look like
Speaker 1: the bad guy. I wanted justice for my son. It
Speaker 1: didn't matter if it was the police. If it was
Speaker 1: a stranger whoever did this to Courtney, they deserved to
Speaker 1: be prosecuted and convicted of this crime. So that was
Speaker 1: my only goal, and I was always telling them, I
Speaker 1: want you to treat my son as if it was yours.
Speaker 1: How would you go about handling this investigation if it
Speaker 1: was your child on that slab instead of mine? Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know how having clarity around Courtney's death
Speaker 1: will impact your life on a personal level. Aside from
Speaker 1: the advocacy part. I know there's nothing I could do.
Speaker 1: I know as a mother, I cannot change what happened.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if me being there would have
Speaker 1: been any different. But for me, the clarity I have
Speaker 1: is more introspective about life and how fragile it is,
Speaker 1: and how that you live every moment as if it's
Speaker 1: your last, and you love harder and you love more freely.
Speaker 1: So that's the clarity I've learned. And all of this
Speaker 1: is to make sure you tell everyone that you love them,
Speaker 1: because I didn't know that I wasn't going to be
Speaker 1: able to tell my son that, and I only can
Speaker 1: tell him and actions and my continuous fight for him.
Speaker 1: But I wish I had that moment to say that
Speaker 1: for him to hear it. Do you think this reflects
Speaker 1: a change and how you how you thought about your
Speaker 1: goals throughout, which is at the beginning, you're seeking clarity
Speaker 1: around the facts, and actually now it's it's also clarity
Speaker 1: around how you plan to live the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: Like that's what you ended up getting from it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that. It's this poem that I often quote.
Speaker 1: The hardest thing was hearing that my son had passed away,
Speaker 1: But now it's the hardest thing is going on and
Speaker 1: living without him. Now that I've heard that, and and
Speaker 1: that is that is the truth? How do you? How
Speaker 1: do you continue to move forward and go on? And
Speaker 1: I hope that what the world gathers from Courtney, it's
Speaker 1: just the love, just to love, to show the love
Speaker 1: and not be afraid to show how you feel about someone.
Speaker 1: One of the greatest things about Courtney that I learned
Speaker 1: and his death is that he had this keen ability
Speaker 1: to make everyone feel special, to make everyone feel loved.
Speaker 1: And if you ask any of his friends, they'll say,
Speaker 1: Courtney was my best friend. Usually we only get one,
Speaker 1: but he made everyone feel like they were his best friend,
Speaker 1: and so I'm learning from him those qualities of making
Speaker 1: myself vulnerable and to show love more often has telling
Speaker 1: Courtney's story, including the story of how well he lived
Speaker 1: his life, helped you heal in ways that you couldn't
Speaker 1: have anticipated. I would say, yes, Um, as a parent,
Speaker 1: you grow up to cheen your children, the morals guidance.
Speaker 1: You know you're still you're instilling so much into them,
Speaker 1: and you're like, I want, I hope these kids are
Speaker 1: listening to me. And what what what I found out
Speaker 1: in his death is that he was the way I
Speaker 1: raised him is the way that he was living. And
Speaker 1: so I find so much comfort and so much joy
Speaker 1: and hearing other people talk about my son the way
Speaker 1: that he made them feel. I recall, uh, the weekend
Speaker 1: that Courtney had passed away, I opened my home to
Speaker 1: the public because it was just so much outpouring of
Speaker 1: grief and they were grieving with me, grieving for me,
Speaker 1: and we were all united in this great loss of
Speaker 1: Courtney Copeland. And I had opened my house to anyone
Speaker 1: who wanted to come and pay their respects. And I
Speaker 1: remember gentleman walking into my home and he told me,
Speaker 1: he said, you don't know me, and I don't even
Speaker 1: know your son, but I saw his photo on the
Speaker 1: TV that he had been killed. And he handed me
Speaker 1: this koran. And he hands me this koran. He said, ma'am,
Speaker 1: your son came into my restaurant about a month ago
Speaker 1: and he saw me. He was sitting with his girlfriend.
Speaker 1: He saw me. He said, I was in so much
Speaker 1: pain that day, and he said, your son saw the
Speaker 1: anguish in my face. And he walked over to me
Speaker 1: and he said, Sir, I don't know you, but I
Speaker 1: just want to encourage you today. I want to give
Speaker 1: you some hope and tell you that whatever it is
Speaker 1: that you're going through, that God is going to be
Speaker 1: able to help you. He started crying. He said, because
Speaker 1: your son came to me in that day and he
Speaker 1: gave me those words of encouragement and told me to
Speaker 1: keep going and whatever I was going through it was
Speaker 1: gonna be okay. I'm here today. And he turned around,
Speaker 1: he walked out, and I just like, oh my God,
Speaker 1: And you have so much You have so much joy
Speaker 1: and sadness at the same time. But you as a parent,
Speaker 1: you said, my child has been listening in there and
Speaker 1: they're validating you as a parent. And so I thought
Speaker 1: that was just like so profound that we wanted him
Speaker 1: to grow up and treat people with dignity and respect,
Speaker 1: and that's the way I would want him to have
Speaker 1: been treated as well. Yeah. Yeah, there's an update to
Speaker 1: chapel story that I wanted to share with you. When
Speaker 1: she and I initially spoke, the Inspector General's investigation was
Speaker 1: still under way, but Chaparl was recently notified that the
Speaker 1: investigation has wrapped up and a final report has been
Speaker 1: sent to the City of Chicago. The report is slated
Speaker 1: to be released to the public in the coming months.
Speaker 1: For more details on the evolution of Courtney's case, you
Speaker 1: can listen to the podcast Somebody, which was named a
Speaker 1: finalist for a Pullit Surprise this past year. Hey, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for listening to A Slight Change of Plans
Speaker 1: this year and for sharing the show with others. We're
Speaker 1: hard at work on a new batch of episodes, but
Speaker 1: in the meantime, you can check out the feed for
Speaker 1: episodes you may not have heard yet. From the whole
Speaker 1: Slight Change family, We're wishing you a peaceful and RESTful holiday.
Speaker 1: We'll see you in the new year. A Slight Change
Speaker 1: of Plans is created, written in executive produced by me
Speaker 1: Maya Shunker. The Slight Change family includes Tyler Green Our
Speaker 1: senior producer, Jan Guerra Our senior editor, Ben Holiday our
Speaker 1: sound engineer, Emily ross Deck our associate producer, and Neil
Speaker 1: A Bell Our executive producer. Louis Skara wrote our theme
Speaker 1: song in Ginger Smith helped to range the vocals. A
Speaker 1: Slight Change of Plants the production of Pushkin Industries so
Speaker 1: big thanks to everyone there, including Malcolm Bladwell, Jacob Weisburg,
Speaker 1: Lee Talmlott and Heather Faith and of course a very
Speaker 1: special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A Slight
Speaker 1: Change of Plans on Instagram at Dr Maya Shunker. Can
Speaker 1: you just quickly share the story of finding out what
Speaker 1: Courtney named you on his phone? You know, we're going
Speaker 1: through his phone and we're looking at all the messages.
Speaker 1: It says, oh, whose number is this? And the blow
Speaker 1: and behold it's my number, and I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: as any bother as He's like, here should go again. Oh,
Speaker 1: but he would also call me mama bear. He would
Speaker 1: like Mama Bear, Mama Bear. And I think that that
Speaker 1: that is just it and Mama Bear is fighting for him,
Speaker 1: and he knew that whatever situation, whether it was oh,
Speaker 1: Mama Bear, I was gonna be somebody that's gonna be
Speaker 1: determined to find out what happened to him.