1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's Alison Flowers from the Somebody podcast. We're 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: sharing another special podcast with you this week, A Slight 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Change of Plans, which was just named Apple Podcasts Best 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: Show of the Year. Hosted by Maya Schenker, A Slight 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Change of Plans is all about understanding the science of change. 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: That understanding, mixed with a healthy dose of compassion, has 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: made the show a perfect antidote for the times we're 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: living in. Maya has interviewed celebrities like Tiffany Hattish and 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: Casey Musgraves, but she's interviewed real life inspirations to people 10 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: who have dealt with cancer diagnoses or the loss of 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: a loved one and somehow managed to learn and grow 12 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: from those hard experiences. We challenge you to listen to 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: an episode and not be inspired. In this episode, Maya 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: talks to Chapel about Courtney's story and Chaparral's continued fight 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: for the truth. You can find more episodes of A 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts. I 17 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: remember that night like it was yesterday. I could still 18 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: hear the thunderous beat in my head, and I remember 19 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: being so startled out of my sleep because I've never 20 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: experienced such a bamming at my door, so it shocked me, 21 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: and I knew that something bad had happened. That's Chaparral 22 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: Wells describing the moment when Chicago police officers showed up 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: on her doorstep in the middle of the night. Her 24 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: oldest child, her twenty two year old son, Courtney Copeland, 25 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: had been fatally shot. Chaparl needed answers about what had 26 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: happened in Courtney's final moments, but it soon became clear 27 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: she wasn't going to get them unless she took matters 28 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: into her own hands. It wasn't by choice that I 29 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: took this journey in investigating my son's murder. I had 30 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: no other option. Chaparral did not know at the time 31 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: that she spent the next five years trying to figure 32 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: out what exactly had happened to Courtney. On today's episode, 33 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 1: a mother channels her grief into justice for her son. 34 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: I'm Maya Shankar, and this is a slight change of plants, 35 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: a show about who we are and who we become 36 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: in the face of a big change. Chaparral was grieving 37 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: the loss of her son, Courtney, but her grieving process 38 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: was complicated by the fact there were so many unanswered 39 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: questions surrounding his death. I wanted to hear about her 40 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: psychological journey through all this, how she balanced her dual 41 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: identities as mom and investigator, and importantly, I wanted to 42 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: know how all her advocacy may have changed her relationship 43 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: with Courtney's death. I started off our conversation by asking 44 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: Chaperl about the kind of person Courtney was. He was 45 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: such a loving person. I s always come home, like 46 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: from dropping off the kids at school, and he'll be here, 47 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: and he'll come up and he'll be all in my bed. 48 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: And I remember even in his team, and when he 49 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: was even grown, he'd be like, can you just rubbed 50 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: on my ears? You know? He was just like so affectionate. 51 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: And I would say one of the best memories I 52 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: have for Courtney is him being the glue. He was 53 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: someone who if there was a conflict or he would 54 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: be the first person to try to resolve it. Hey, 55 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: you guys, you know we're family. Let's pull it together. 56 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: Let's it doesn't matter what happened. Let's just resolve this 57 00:03:54,880 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: and move on. I remember Courdney shortly after my mother 58 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: passed away, and Courtney and my grandmother were very close, 59 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: and he said, mom, h Grandma wanted me to keep 60 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: the family together. And Courtney may have been at the 61 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: time that she passed. And I was like, you know, 62 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: that's a huge responsibility, Courtney, I said, but she saw 63 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: something within you that felt that you could do it. 64 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: Because Courtney was the type of person, he got along 65 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: with everyone, and so he would basically try to host 66 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: family dinners lessons like this person because these are things 67 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: that my grandmother did, especially around holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas. 68 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: She made sure everyone got together. In addition to being 69 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: a family oriented guy, Courtney was also making great strides 70 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: in his professional life. He was a sales wrath and 71 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: he earned a special bonus that allowed him to get 72 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: at Burgundy BMW. And so I remember him pulling up 73 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: in our draw I've way probably around twelve or one 74 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: in the morning. He was like, Mom, I did it. 75 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: I did it. I got the car. I got the car. 76 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: And I remember him giving me the biggest hug and 77 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: he was like, you gotta come down there and see it. 78 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: And the music was blasting and he was just like 79 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: so excited. His friends were out. I mean, it's like 80 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: literally twelve thirty one o'clock in the morning and he 81 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: had called out his friends over you can't see anything, 82 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: and everybody was just it was like a mini party 83 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: right in the driveway. And this car wasn't just any 84 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: car to Courtney. They had a relationship. He would talk 85 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: to the car every morning like it was his girlfriend. 86 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: Good morning baby, how are you today? I mean, it 87 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: was just that was his life. The car was his 88 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: life for sure. Well, so yeah, I guess it symbolized 89 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: something so meaningful to him about what he had accomplished 90 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: in life and where he was heading. And it did. 91 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: It did. His goals were always to make sure that 92 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: we didn't have to work. It's so there didn't have 93 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: to do anything. So once he received that BMW bonus, 94 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: he actually pushed harder and he was working harder, talking 95 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: to more people and trying to get as much as 96 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: he could in the way of excelling his business as possible. 97 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: So one night, you hear a knock on the door 98 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: at two in the morning and it's the police. Can 99 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: you take me back to that moment? Yes, I remember 100 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: that night like it was yesterday. I could still hear 101 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: the thunderous beat in my head. You know, this is 102 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: something that you never forget, these sounds, these moments where 103 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: you were. And I remember being so startled out of 104 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: my sleep because I've never experienced such a obaming at 105 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: my door, So that bamming it shocked me and I 106 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: knew that something bad had happened. And so when I 107 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: got to the door, the officer was like, do you 108 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: know a Courtney Copeland And I said yes, I'm his mother, 109 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: and then he said, well, we come to notify you 110 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: that you need to call Illinois Masignic Hospital. And at 111 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: that moment, the first thing that goes through my mind is, oh, 112 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: my god, my son has been in a terrible accident. 113 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: Something that's happened. And uh so I'm like, for a 114 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: police officer to come to your home, it has to 115 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: be extremely serious. So I remember my husband he had 116 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: jumped out of bed as well. And by this time 117 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: I'm focusing on Okay, I have to go change my 118 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: clothes and get ready because they're telling us that we 119 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: have to go to this hospital. And so my husband 120 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: is talking to them and I was like, well, Brent 121 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: called the hospital, let's see what's happening. And I'm putting 122 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: on my clothes, and they said, we can't tell you 123 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: over the phone. You need to come in. Once that happened, 124 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: once he uttered those words, I remember being in my 125 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: bedroom and just falling to the floor because I just 126 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: felt in my gut that them telling you that they 127 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: can't tell you on the phone, this must be bad. 128 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: And then once I arrived to the hospital, UH, I 129 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: told him who I was. I said, I'm here to 130 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: see Courtney Copeland. And then they said, well, we need 131 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: to take you to the family room. And I remember, 132 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: just like it just happened just now, when they said that, 133 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not going. I'm not going into 134 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: the family room because in that moment, you know that 135 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: your child is gone. And so I said, at that point, 136 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: I started to demand to see Courtney, and they were like, 137 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: we can't allow you to see him. And I'm like, 138 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: you know, it was an emotional, emotional moment because everyone 139 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: knew at that moment that Courtney was gone. But you know, 140 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: as a mom, you want to see that confirmation. You 141 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: want to you want to see your child. And UH, 142 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: they were at first denying us the right to see Courtney, 143 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: and they were denying us, uh, the right to even 144 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: really know a lot of information about him. What was 145 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: the reason they wouldn't let you see Courtney, Well, because 146 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: it was a murder investigation. And so they said that 147 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: the police had already determined that this was a murder 148 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: and that no one is to be able to see him, 149 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: and so they said their protocol is to send them 150 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: directly to the morgue. And so about forty five minutes 151 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: to an hour, the doctor finally comes and tells us 152 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: what happened. And so we're in the family room and 153 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: at this time it's about thirty family members that are 154 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: with us, and his friends, his closest friends, and they 155 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: were like, you know, the doctor came in that your 156 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: son was brought in by ambulance and he was shot, 157 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: and all of us just like shot by who? And 158 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: we all fell to the ground because we couldn't believe. 159 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: I mean, because for Courtney to be shot, it was 160 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: just something that was unfathomable about him, of all people 161 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: being shot, he was not, you know violent, he you know, 162 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: if if he saw confrontation, Courtney would leave. So for 163 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: them to tell us that he had been shot, we 164 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: immediately said, by who? Who did this to him? After 165 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: nearly two hours of Pleading with hospital doctors and staff, 166 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: Chapel was finally allowed to see her son. She and 167 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: her family made their way to the trauma ward, where 168 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: Courtney was lying on a hospital bed. I would probably 169 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: say that was probably the hardest moment of my life 170 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: to be able to see him in that state. You know, 171 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: I remember so vividly when we first walked in the room, 172 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: and you know, all of my family was there, and 173 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: I can I can remember myself just telling everybody, I 174 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: need to be along with my baby. I need a moment. 175 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: I need him to note that you know, Mommy was 176 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 1: sorry that she wasn't there. You know, I just imagine 177 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: my son going through all this trauma by himself and 178 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: not having his mom there, and that was hard for me. 179 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: And I remember touching him and kissing him and his 180 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: his body was still warm, and you know, you know 181 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: those moments you just think about all of the time 182 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: that you had and and and they're rushing back every 183 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: moment from birth and him into this moment where you 184 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: get at him for his final days, his final seconds, 185 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: his final hours, and there's that very final moment when 186 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: you're getting ready to say goodbye. Mm hmm, there's a 187 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: moment at the hospital that night where when you feel 188 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: more than just grief. Yes, after we view Courtney, the 189 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: two detectives that allow us to see him, they begin 190 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: to question us about Courtney in the vehicle. The first 191 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: question they asked was who was the owner of the 192 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: BMW And I said, Courtney. Courtney is owner of the BMW. 193 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: And I said, but he did have a co signer. 194 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: So on my mind, I was thinking, maybe, uh, this 195 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: was a traffic stop gone wrong, because why would you 196 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: be questioning you know, I'm thinking detectives. If they're telling 197 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: me that my son was shot and killed by unknowned assailant, 198 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: then the first thing should have been you know, where 199 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: was he going on? Who was he with? What? What 200 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: information do you know? But to question the vehicle it 201 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: made me suspicious of their intent. Maybe they thought that 202 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: Courtney had stolen the vehicle. It was like to me 203 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: they were interrogating Courtney as opposed to trying to find 204 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: out who could have done this to him. So at 205 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: this point, Chaparl, you decide to take matters into your 206 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: own hands and you go int a full investigator mode. 207 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, and it's 208 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: hard to imagine where I'd even begin. Well, you know, 209 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't by choice that I took this journey in 210 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: investigating my son's murder. I had no other option. I 211 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: felt that Courtney deserved two have clothosure. I mean it 212 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: was like day in and day out from the moment 213 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: I found out that Courtney had been killed. I needed 214 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: to know why. I still need to know why, and 215 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: I needed to know how, how did these things occur? 216 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: What happened? And so you know, within my being, it 217 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: was just constantly turning all of these unknowns and I 218 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: had to try to uncover whatever I could. I mean, literally, 219 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: we were we were working. We were working on Courtney's case. Seven. 220 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: I don't think I slept the first week, because I 221 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: would maybe sleep like two to three hours because I 222 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: was constantly going over the timeline. I was recording what 223 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: my thoughts were, any tips, I was putting it in there. 224 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: We were going out in the neighborhood. We were walking, 225 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: uh looking for clues. We were talking to his friends 226 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: that he would have encountered that night. So we were 227 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: literally we had all boots on the streets trying to 228 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: figure out what happened. Mm hmm. You eventually tracked down 229 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: Courtney's hospital records. What did the records say? You know, 230 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: at the time that I actually received the medical records, 231 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: I had already had suspicions that something was wrong. So 232 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: the first page of the medical documents was the Chicago 233 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: Fire Department run sheet, and that particular run sheet, the 234 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: first paragraph of it it states that my son was violent, agitated, combative, 235 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: and a threat to others. And so I knew in 236 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: my heart, because I know my son, that this information 237 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: had to be wrong. As I continued to read, it 238 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: says and the patient was handcuffed. When I saw that 239 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: my son was handcuffed, I lost it. I mean, I 240 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: was just like, why would you handcuffed somebody who who 241 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: was dying and he went to you for help? And 242 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: so none of this made any sense to me, and 243 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: it only hyped my suspicion. You know, you felt a 244 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: little comfort and knowing that at least he was will 245 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: cared for on the scene, but when you find out 246 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: that that was not true, it just crushed me. Throughout 247 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: your investigation, you and members of the community are sharing 248 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: leads with the police, but they seemed to be falling 249 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: on deaf ears. In fact, the police department goes totally 250 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: silent on you for an entire year. What tactics do 251 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: you use to try to keep their attention on Courtney's case. Well, 252 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: we actually did rallies outside of the district. We marched 253 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: on the mayor office, and we also canvas the neighborhoods. 254 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: We talk to neighbors who hit video cameras. We requested 255 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: for your information freedom of information acts so that that 256 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: way we can get all the tapes, the audio, the visual, 257 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: the pod cameras, everything that surrounded this case. Chaparral was 258 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: intent on getting access to the footage surrounding Courtney's death 259 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: and began searching the web for potential partners who could 260 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: help her. One night, around two thirty in the morning, 261 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: she came across an article about Lakwan McDonald, the seventeen 262 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: year old who was fatally shot by a Chicago police officer. 263 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: In the article cited a nonprofit called the Invisible Institute. 264 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: The institute had played a key role in getting footage 265 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: released from Lakwan McDonald's case, and so I said, well, 266 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: at this point, I have nothing to lose. I'm gonna 267 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: write to the Invisible Institute to see if I can 268 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: get some help with trying to get the video tapes 269 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: and the audio tapes that we know the police have 270 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: surrounding Courtney's case, because at that point I was only 271 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: looking for someone to listen to me and to hear me, 272 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: because I felt like everything I was saying as a mom, 273 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: it was being misconstrued as I'm just grieving mom and 274 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: none of this have any merit. But what I was 275 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: showing to the world, what I wanted the world to understand, 276 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: that there are a lot of inconsistencies in this case. Yeah, 277 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: it's so interesting how when you occupy the role of mom, 278 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: there's there's a presumption that emotions bias, all that stuff 279 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: is creeping in when in actuality, you were holding yourself 280 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: to a very rigorous process and you were just trying 281 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: to find the facts. Yes, very early on, my friend Santita, 282 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: she told me, you don't want to come to a conclusion. 283 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: You want to arrive at the conclusion. You want to 284 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: let the evidence lead you to what happened to your son. 285 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: And so that was one of the cruise to advices 286 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: that I received and that I tried to adapt during 287 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: the whole process, that I wanted to naturally allow the 288 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: evidence to tell us what happened to Courdney. I'm wondering 289 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: whether strategies you use to try and gain more credibility 290 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: in the eyes of the police force, giving your status 291 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: as quote mom. You know, I think that they were 292 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: dismissive because I was a mom, They were dismissive because 293 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: I was black, all of these things. And I don't 294 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: know if they would treat everyone like that, but I 295 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: felt that they treated me very badly. But I I 296 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: believe that they felt that because I'm not um, I 297 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: didn't go to law school, I didn't go to the 298 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: police academy, that therefore that my only knowledge about solving 299 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: crimes is uh, Special Victims Unit on Law and Order. 300 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: That's what That's what they basically thought that I was doing. 301 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: And just like I told them, I said, no, this 302 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: is basic information. I mean, you know, I had to 303 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: actually read a lot of terminology. I had to understand 304 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: everything that I was reading in their reports. Some things 305 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: I didn't understand and I had to go and look 306 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: it up. Well what does this mean when they say this? 307 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: What is what does these code me? And police language? 308 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: So in order for me to understand that, I had 309 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: to actually reach out to a couple of police officer 310 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: of friends that I know. Had to reach out to 311 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: so share of people that I know and to try 312 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: to figure out the terminology so I can understand on 313 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: their level. Same with the autopsic reports. A lot of 314 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: medical terminology I didn't know, so as a mom I 315 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: had to take off my mom emotional world and put 316 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: on my investigative mode. Had and tried to figure out 317 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: what happened to my son. So I wanted to know 318 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: all the ins and outs, how the bullet travel everything. 319 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: And people were like, this is just too much. It's 320 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: too much, You're doing too much, and I will tell them, no, 321 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: I need to know. I need to know how how 322 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: did my son pass away? I need to know. Together 323 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: with the Invisible Institute, Chapearl continued to advocate for the 324 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: release of footage from Courtney's final moments, and finally the 325 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: police agreed to turn it over. One and a half 326 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: years after Courtney's death, I asked Chaparl what it was 327 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: like to hold those videos in her hands for the 328 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: first time. You know, I remember receiving the videos in 329 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: my mailbox and I had prepared myself all right, came 330 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: up in my room, set up the DVD player, got 331 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: prepared to watch it. I prayed before I loaded it 332 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: because I knew it was going to be hard to 333 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: actually see it. I pop it in and it tells 334 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: me it's in a format that I can't even read. 335 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 1: So I remember feeling this, this horrible, horrible feeling like 336 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: they're playing with me, They're playing with my emotions. They 337 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: knew that they sent me a format that I couldn't read, 338 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: so I remember just crying out and I called the 339 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: Invisible Institute to ask them if they can decode it. 340 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: So the moment that we get the video tape decoded, 341 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: I remember the Invisible Institute being with me, and all 342 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: I could see is my son just like reaching up 343 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: on his knees, begging them to help, begging. He surrounded 344 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: by eight to ten cops and my son is begging 345 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: to be helped. And then the video cuts away and 346 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: focuses on the police station for two minutes, and so 347 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, what is happening to my son? I'm panicking 348 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: because I don't even know what's happening at this point. 349 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: Why would the video just automatically turn away from the 350 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: scene into we're watching the police station. And then the 351 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: next frame is when they aggressively picked up my son 352 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: off the ground, throw him against the police car and 353 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: then onto the gurney as if he was a ragged 354 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: out And that's why I often tell people, it's so hard, 355 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: it's so hard to even imagine the emotions that my son. 356 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: I just know my son was just so confused, like 357 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: police are supposed to be here to serve and protect you, 358 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: and I'm shocked, I'm scared what's happening. And this is 359 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: what his final moments were, and he was by himself. 360 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: And I told people all the time that's like the 361 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: hardest thing for me as a mom to know that 362 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: he endured all this by himself, and there was nobody 363 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: there who cared enough for him to help him through 364 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: this and to comfort him in these moments. Not a 365 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: soul was there. Yeah, we'll be back in a moment 366 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: with a slight change of plans. Over the next several years, 367 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: Chapel Wells continued to push for further charity around what 368 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: actually happened to her son, Courtney Copeland. In September, she 369 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: received some news from the City of Chicago. Chaparral's advocacy 370 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: had paid off. The Office of the Inspector General, an 371 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: independent watchdog agency, had decided to launch a formal investigation 372 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: into Courtney's case. The investigation is currently under way. Where 373 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: do you go from here, Chaparral. A lot of people say, 374 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: you know, don't put too much stock and what this 375 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: report shows m hm. But I think that what happened 376 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: to Courtney has to be addressed on all levels of 377 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: city government, state government, federal government, because I feel that 378 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: these incidents occur far more frequently than police shootings, but 379 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: they don't get the highlight and the notoriety because it's 380 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: not the police pulling the trigger or a beat down 381 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: or a knee on the neck. But these type of 382 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: incidents of racial profiling and the police accountability need to 383 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: be addressed. So I'm looking for more legislative changes to 384 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: see if the Inspector General kid make UH policy changes 385 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: that would change the policy from they can intervene until 386 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: they must intervene to help to save more lives. Because 387 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: the reality is is that, like I said, it wasn't 388 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: the fact that Courtney was shot, it was the lack 389 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: of urgency to his care. You know, recently, UH Offers 390 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: of French was shot in Chicago and she was killed. 391 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: I listened to that traffic on the police scanner that day, 392 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: and I was listening in real time. I saw how 393 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: they move heaven and earth to get her to the 394 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 1: nearest trauma center as they should. As they should, But 395 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: that same care that they put for offers of French 396 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: should go for every citizen in Chicago in the United States. 397 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: There should be no respect of person because of their title. 398 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: But everybody deserves a fighting chance. And so if we 399 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: make these legislative changes to ensure that everyone has the 400 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: opportunity at life, then that would be justice for Courtney. 401 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: M hm. Did you ever find your relationship at the 402 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: police changing throughout this process? I mean, how you approach 403 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: that change in any way? Well, I would say we 404 00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: still have a contentious relationship. I would say that I 405 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: still have no faith in them that they would actually 406 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: solve Courtney's murder. But I'm hoping that we can come 407 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: to a clear understanding that Coordinate deserves justice. This was 408 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: not for me um an investigation on the police to 409 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: try to entrap them or to make them look like 410 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: the bad guy. I wanted justice for my son. It 411 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: didn't matter if it was the police. If it was 412 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: a stranger whoever did this to Courtney, they deserved to 413 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: be prosecuted and convicted of this crime. So that was 414 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: my only goal, and I was always telling them, I 415 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: want you to treat my son as if it was yours. 416 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: How would you go about handling this investigation if it 417 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: was your child on that slab instead of mine? Mm hmm. 418 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: I'm curious to know how having clarity around Courtney's death 419 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: will impact your life on a personal level. Aside from 420 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: the advocacy part. I know there's nothing I could do. 421 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: I know as a mother, I cannot change what happened. 422 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: I don't even know if me being there would have 423 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: been any different. But for me, the clarity I have 424 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: is more introspective about life and how fragile it is, 425 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: and how that you live every moment as if it's 426 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: your last, and you love harder and you love more freely. 427 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: So that's the clarity I've learned. And all of this 428 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: is to make sure you tell everyone that you love them, 429 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: because I didn't know that I wasn't going to be 430 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: able to tell my son that, and I only can 431 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: tell him and actions and my continuous fight for him. 432 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: But I wish I had that moment to say that 433 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: for him to hear it. Do you think this reflects 434 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: a change and how you how you thought about your 435 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: goals throughout, which is at the beginning, you're seeking clarity 436 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: around the facts, and actually now it's it's also clarity 437 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: around how you plan to live the rest of your life. 438 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: Like that's what you ended up getting from it. Yeah, 439 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,959 Speaker 1: you know that. It's this poem that I often quote. 440 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: The hardest thing was hearing that my son had passed away, 441 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: But now it's the hardest thing is going on and 442 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: living without him. Now that I've heard that, and and 443 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: that is that is the truth? How do you? How 444 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: do you continue to move forward and go on? And 445 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: I hope that what the world gathers from Courtney, it's 446 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: just the love, just to love, to show the love 447 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: and not be afraid to show how you feel about someone. 448 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: One of the greatest things about Courtney that I learned 449 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: and his death is that he had this keen ability 450 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: to make everyone feel special, to make everyone feel loved. 451 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: And if you ask any of his friends, they'll say, 452 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: Courtney was my best friend. Usually we only get one, 453 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: but he made everyone feel like they were his best friend, 454 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: and so I'm learning from him those qualities of making 455 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: myself vulnerable and to show love more often has telling 456 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: Courtney's story, including the story of how well he lived 457 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: his life, helped you heal in ways that you couldn't 458 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: have anticipated. I would say, yes, Um, as a parent, 459 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: you grow up to cheen your children, the morals guidance. 460 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: You know you're still you're instilling so much into them, 461 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: and you're like, I want, I hope these kids are 462 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: listening to me. And what what what I found out 463 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: in his death is that he was the way I 464 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: raised him is the way that he was living. And 465 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: so I find so much comfort and so much joy 466 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: and hearing other people talk about my son the way 467 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: that he made them feel. I recall, uh, the weekend 468 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: that Courtney had passed away, I opened my home to 469 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: the public because it was just so much outpouring of 470 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: grief and they were grieving with me, grieving for me, 471 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: and we were all united in this great loss of 472 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: Courtney Copeland. And I had opened my house to anyone 473 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: who wanted to come and pay their respects. And I 474 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: remember gentleman walking into my home and he told me, 475 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: he said, you don't know me, and I don't even 476 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: know your son, but I saw his photo on the 477 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: TV that he had been killed. And he handed me 478 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: this koran. And he hands me this koran. He said, ma'am, 479 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: your son came into my restaurant about a month ago 480 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: and he saw me. He was sitting with his girlfriend. 481 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: He saw me. He said, I was in so much 482 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: pain that day, and he said, your son saw the 483 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: anguish in my face. And he walked over to me 484 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: and he said, Sir, I don't know you, but I 485 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: just want to encourage you today. I want to give 486 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: you some hope and tell you that whatever it is 487 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: that you're going through, that God is going to be 488 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: able to help you. He started crying. He said, because 489 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: your son came to me in that day and he 490 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: gave me those words of encouragement and told me to 491 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: keep going and whatever I was going through it was 492 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: gonna be okay. I'm here today. And he turned around, 493 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: he walked out, and I just like, oh my God, 494 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: And you have so much You have so much joy 495 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: and sadness at the same time. But you as a parent, 496 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: you said, my child has been listening in there and 497 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: they're validating you as a parent. And so I thought 498 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: that was just like so profound that we wanted him 499 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: to grow up and treat people with dignity and respect, 500 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: and that's the way I would want him to have 501 00:34:47,280 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: been treated as well. Yeah. Yeah, there's an update to 502 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 1: chapel story that I wanted to share with you. When 503 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: she and I initially spoke, the Inspector General's investigation was 504 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: still under way, but Chaparl was recently notified that the 505 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: investigation has wrapped up and a final report has been 506 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: sent to the City of Chicago. The report is slated 507 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,720 Speaker 1: to be released to the public in the coming months. 508 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: For more details on the evolution of Courtney's case, you 509 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: can listen to the podcast Somebody, which was named a 510 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: finalist for a Pullit Surprise this past year. Hey, thanks 511 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 1: so much for listening to A Slight Change of Plans 512 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: this year and for sharing the show with others. We're 513 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: hard at work on a new batch of episodes, but 514 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: in the meantime, you can check out the feed for 515 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: episodes you may not have heard yet. From the whole 516 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 1: Slight Change family, We're wishing you a peaceful and RESTful holiday. 517 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: We'll see you in the new year. A Slight Change 518 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: of Plans is created, written in executive produced by me 519 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: Maya Shunker. The Slight Change family includes Tyler Green Our 520 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: senior producer, Jan Guerra Our senior editor, Ben Holiday our 521 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: sound engineer, Emily ross Deck our associate producer, and Neil 522 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 1: A Bell Our executive producer. Louis Skara wrote our theme 523 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: song in Ginger Smith helped to range the vocals. A 524 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: Slight Change of Plants the production of Pushkin Industries so 525 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: big thanks to everyone there, including Malcolm Bladwell, Jacob Weisburg, 526 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: Lee Talmlott and Heather Faith and of course a very 527 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A Slight 528 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: Change of Plans on Instagram at Dr Maya Shunker. Can 529 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: you just quickly share the story of finding out what 530 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: Courtney named you on his phone? You know, we're going 531 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: through his phone and we're looking at all the messages. 532 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: It says, oh, whose number is this? And the blow 533 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: and behold it's my number, and I'm like, you know, 534 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: as any bother as He's like, here should go again. Oh, 535 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: but he would also call me mama bear. He would 536 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: like Mama Bear, Mama Bear. And I think that that 537 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: that is just it and Mama Bear is fighting for him, 538 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: and he knew that whatever situation, whether it was oh, 539 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: Mama Bear, I was gonna be somebody that's gonna be 540 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: determined to find out what happened to him.