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Speaker 1: Would you help me kill someone if I wanted to?

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Speaker 1: For many Here's here's the thing I'm gonna I'm going

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Speaker 1: to start with no, that's a good answer, and then

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good answer. Uh, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: going to ask, well, who oh, okay cold blood? No,

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Speaker 1: you know there's a lot like no. I think the

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Speaker 1: answer is no, that's good, but that's the answer I

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Speaker 1: wanted to. Okay, good, Yeah, I love it. You're like, no,

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Speaker 1: I really love you and I would do anything for you.

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Speaker 1: But no, I mean heated situation like a saloon outside

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Speaker 1: the saloon showdown, high noon? Would I kill someone for

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Speaker 1: you or with you? Either way? No? Would I duel

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Speaker 1: in an old West town if you ask me to. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm already there, okay outside the Golden Corral. Uh oh,

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Speaker 1: we have listeners. We do have listeners. We didn't see

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Speaker 1: you there. Oh Hi. We weren't talking about committing murder.

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Speaker 1: I mean we weren't talking about committing murder. We were

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Speaker 1: talking about a legit dual. You know those are legal, right?

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Speaker 1: What your is it? Well? I'm Diana and Ili. This

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Speaker 1: story is about a couple who were very happy to

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Speaker 1: kill for one another. Yeah, yeah, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: they're more dedicated to each other than we are. I mean,

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Speaker 1: knowing this story, I would say less, but I would

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Speaker 1: also say less before we get into that, though. I

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Speaker 1: would love a pick me up, some kind of emotional

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Speaker 1: boost from from anywhere, from somewhere out there in the world.

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Speaker 1: What you got, Oh, you want to hear some listener mail?

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Speaker 1: Listener mail? Do you mean that it's time for mail call? Awesome?

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Speaker 1: Today's mail call comes from a listener named Laura Quirk

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Speaker 1: Cool last name great, first and last name lq L.

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Speaker 1: She wrote to us after listening to the John and

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Speaker 1: Lorna Bobbit episode, and she says, Hi, Eli and Diana,

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Speaker 1: I was just at the nail salon listening to several

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Speaker 1: episodes of Ridiculous Romance, Thank you, and had to write

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Speaker 1: to you. It's ironic that I was listening to this

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Speaker 1: particular episode since Lorena Bobbitt used to do my nails.

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Speaker 1: Back in around I was getting my nails done at

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Speaker 1: a salon in Springfield, Virginia called Bella Donna Salon. I

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Speaker 1: went there for several years and always saw a technician

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Speaker 1: named Lorena. I did not realize she was Lorena Bobbitt

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Speaker 1: at the time. It was only many years later when

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Speaker 1: my friend who had introduced me to the salon told

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Speaker 1: me that it was in fact Lorena Bobbitt. And I

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Speaker 1: just wanted you to know how absolutely lovely she was.

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Speaker 1: I adored her. She was always very sweet and kind,

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Speaker 1: a really tender hearted person, professional, thoughtful, remember details of

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Speaker 1: your personal life that you had shared with her. And

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Speaker 1: she ended up leaving that salon because she was getting

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Speaker 1: her as the Titian license and went to work out

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Speaker 1: at a spa in Reston. She probably did my nails

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Speaker 1: every week for four years. I never recognized her because

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Speaker 1: the pictures that had been published of her were unflattering. Well,

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Speaker 1: we talked about the media treatment, and I have to

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Speaker 1: tell you she has a beautiful smile and was very

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Speaker 1: well put together and had done her hair soft blonde

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Speaker 1: and definitely does not have crazy in her eyes. Just

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Speaker 1: such a thank you for including that that detail. I

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Speaker 1: had seen an interview that Oprah did with her as

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Speaker 1: a follow up years later, and she was happily married

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned too. I just really loved her and

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Speaker 1: thought that she went through an awful lot and she

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Speaker 1: deserves all the happiness and she is a gym. John,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, is complete trash has done even

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Speaker 1: more horrible things than I realized. I would thrown this

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Speaker 1: penis out the window too. J K. I know, Laura,

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Speaker 1: I totally feel you. Just like this episode, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't kill someone. I was also like I could.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I could ever cut someone's pen us off,

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Speaker 1: but I would be sorely tempted if if I were

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Speaker 1: married to John Wayne Bobbitt. That's so cool that that

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Speaker 1: was her her manicurist. She also finished by saying, I

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Speaker 1: can say it's really weird to see stuff on TV

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Speaker 1: about someone and then to know them in person and

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Speaker 1: have it be so completely different. Media really did not

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Speaker 1: paint her in a flattering light, no wonder she shunned them.

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Speaker 1: Very good point. Yea, well, thanks for writing in, Laura.

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Speaker 1: So cool to hear your story about getting a nail

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Speaker 1: stone by Lorena. That's two personal connections to stories we've

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Speaker 1: told that And if you haven't heard the Bobbitt story,

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Speaker 1: go back and check it out. But in terms of

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Speaker 1: couples who did terrible things, we've got one today. That's

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Speaker 1: a real doozy. That's right, We've got killer couple Raymond

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Speaker 1: Fernandez and Martha Beck, who were known as the Lonely

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Speaker 1: Hearts Killers. We could fill this podcast with couples who

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Speaker 1: murdered together, right. They probably are true crime podcasts about

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Speaker 1: that specifically. We just want to sprinkle them in because

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Speaker 1: we find ones that really stand out, and these guys

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Speaker 1: really stand out. They do. These two killed in ninety

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Speaker 1: seven to Night and died by the electric chair in

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Speaker 1: ninety one. So a short career, but pretty spectacular one.

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Speaker 1: I guess this episode we've got a little bit of everything.

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Speaker 1: We've got good people gone bad, true romance, fake romance, voodoo,

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Speaker 1: old timey news reporters, a scintillating and salacious tale of deceit, fraud,

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Speaker 1: sex and murder. I can't wait. Hey their French come listen. Well,

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Speaker 1: Elia and Diana got some stories to tell. There's no matchmaking,

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Speaker 1: a romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous relationships, a lover.

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Speaker 1: It might be any type of person at all, and

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Speaker 1: abstract cons at a concrete wall. But if there's a

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Speaker 1: story with a second glance, ridiculous romance. Production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. So Raymond Fernandez. He was born in Hawaii

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Speaker 1: on December seventeenth, nineteen fourteen to Spanish parents. His father

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Speaker 1: was a very proud man, and apparently he was not

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Speaker 1: very happy with Raymond's built. Raymond was kind of a sickly, frail,

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Speaker 1: sort of lanky kid, and Raymond's dad was like, I

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Speaker 1: want to macho son, and this is not what I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for. When Raymond was three, the family moved to Connecticut.

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Speaker 1: The serial killer calendar website apparently there's a serial killer

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Speaker 1: calendar website, right. I learned a lot of things, and

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Speaker 1: they say that Ray's father ran into a lot of discrimination,

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Speaker 1: not in Connecticut. I know he was facing a lot

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Speaker 1: of discrimination, and he struggled to find work and he

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Speaker 1: landed in a lot of low paying jobs. He drank

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Speaker 1: heavily and often beat raymond abusive father. The Famous people

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Speaker 1: dot com says Raymond wasn't allowed to go to school.

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Speaker 1: His father didn't let him, just made him do like

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Speaker 1: a lot of menial labor and contracting work with his dad.

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Speaker 1: I guess, and it's sixteen. Ray and a couple of

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Speaker 1: friends stole two chickens. This is the first criminal activity

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Speaker 1: in Raymond's life, and his friends were bailed out by

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Speaker 1: their parents, but raised dad refused to bail him out,

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Speaker 1: so he spent two months in jail. I guess that

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be like a tough love thing, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think it worked. In two the family decided

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Speaker 1: to go back to his parents native Spain. His father

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Speaker 1: became the mayor of a town called Orgiva in Granada,

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Speaker 1: and Raymond worked on his uncle's farm, and at twenty

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Speaker 1: he met and married incarnation Robliss, with whom he had

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Speaker 1: four children, and murder Pda says, at this time he

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Speaker 1: had a calm, gentle manner. He was well liked in Orgiva,

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Speaker 1: socially adept and courteous, just like a generally genial, normal, regular,

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Speaker 1: everyday dude. It's gotta be. I don't know, if you

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Speaker 1: look back at your life and you're like, hey, I

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Speaker 1: was a real calm, gentle, kind and well liked person,

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Speaker 1: murder Pa says, So I don't you don't really want

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Speaker 1: that or any entry on murder Pedia about yourself. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: spare me from ever being featured on murder Pedia in

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Speaker 1: any capacity, because it won't be good either way. Very

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Speaker 1: true victim or unless it's like Eli Banks stopped this

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Speaker 1: murder from ever happening. Saved this person's life and put

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Speaker 1: that would be serial killer on a new path. He's

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Speaker 1: now fixed global warming. Wow, that's the that's the only

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Speaker 1: time I want to be on murder Pedia. Serial killer.

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Speaker 1: Callendar says that Raymond enlisted in Francisco Franco's army during

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Speaker 1: the Spanish Civil War, but we couldn't find another supporting

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Speaker 1: source for that anyway. The war ended in nine and

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Speaker 1: then World War two broke out and Raymond saw this opportunity.

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Speaker 1: He moved to Gibraltar and sold ice cream to British troops.

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Speaker 1: This guy's delightful, I know, right a little. He's handed

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Speaker 1: out ice cream to the troops, to military personnel, to tourists,

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Speaker 1: just making scoops and making days, you know, making scoops

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Speaker 1: for the troops. Scoops for the troops. Come on, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna scops from the troop. We got anti fascist fudge

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Speaker 1: and military mint the boys, and blueberry and raspberry ripple.

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Speaker 1: That one's not a pun. That's a delicious flavor. People

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Speaker 1: just people just love it. Okay, So still an ice

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Speaker 1: cream And apparently at this point he was approached by

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Speaker 1: a British Army intelligence officer who thought that an extroverted

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Speaker 1: chill dude who made friends easily might be a good

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Speaker 1: addition to their spye network. You would can get some

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Speaker 1: info that way, I cream spy. Come on, come on that,

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Speaker 1: you're going to get all the secrets like that, because

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Speaker 1: you got you got the Germans over there being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I get my child a scoop us anti fascist fudge.

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Speaker 1: I don't we are fascist, but he loves it meanwhile

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Speaker 1: waiting for him to finish scooping and let me tell

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Speaker 1: you all the secrets. Oh lord, ice cream scoopers just like,

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Speaker 1: let me listen in. It's a perfect system. You think

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Speaker 1: Germans only had vanilla ice cream because it was white,

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Speaker 1: Well they could put butter scotch on it because it's

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Speaker 1: like blonde, that's true, little blonde hair and little little

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Speaker 1: blueberry eyes. Because if you got the blonde hair blue eyes,

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Speaker 1: well now we know how to make an area area.

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Speaker 1: It's vanilla ice cream with butter scotch her up and

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Speaker 1: blueberry eyes. But the good thing about it is that

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Speaker 1: you get to dig its face out with a spoon.

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Speaker 1: So if you really want to stick it to the Nazis,

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Speaker 1: stick your spoon and a Nazi Sunday Today well, okay,

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Speaker 1: so yes, where was it? Oh? Yeah, they decided he

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Speaker 1: would be a good spy, so did we. So Raymond

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Speaker 1: did do some low level intelligence work for the Allies

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Speaker 1: during the war, and not much is known about that work,

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Speaker 1: of course, because it's clandestine. I mean, it's you're not

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Speaker 1: supposed to know. I've done a very good job. A

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Speaker 1: lot is known about this terrible spy. But Bruce Sander,

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Speaker 1: in an article published in Killer Couples, quotes a glowing

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Speaker 1: testimonial that British intelligence wrote about him. Raymond Fernandez was

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Speaker 1: entirely loyal to the Allied calls and carried out his duties,

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Speaker 1: which was sometimes difficult and dangerous extremely Well. Well, this

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Speaker 1: quote is why I questioned the thing that he joined

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Speaker 1: Franco's army because Francisco Franco was a fascist and the

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Speaker 1: Nazis helped him overthrow the democratic government of Spain. So

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Speaker 1: I was kind of like, well, then why would he

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, if he fought for Franco,

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Speaker 1: why would he now be against the Nazis. Yeah, unless

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Speaker 1: he's just like fair Weather, he's just super devoted to

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Speaker 1: whoever he happens to be. He's just a good employee. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of I was like, maybe he's just not

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Speaker 1: very political at all, and he was just like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm here, I got to do something whatever. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: and I think military service does pay, maybe not during

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Speaker 1: a war. So I was like, maybe did for money?

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Speaker 1: I really don't know, but totally speculation station why the

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Speaker 1: fund did Raymond first fight for the Access Powers and

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Speaker 1: then fight against the Access Powers? So the war ends

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Speaker 1: and Raymond has, you know, had this exemplary service for

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Speaker 1: his country for the Allied powers. So what we got

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Speaker 1: so far is what seems to be a chill, nice,

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Speaker 1: pretty brave guy. Um, he did menial labor to take

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Speaker 1: care of his family and pay the bills. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just kind of a normal dude. Sounds great. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: sound like a killer to me. I don't see myself

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Speaker 1: ever having a problem with this guy. But wait, there's more.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, there's always more. Every time somebody seems like

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Speaker 1: a good guy, they keep living. You've either die a

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Speaker 1: hero or you live long enough to become an asshole.

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Speaker 1: I mean, ship, why is that so true? Raymond decided

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Speaker 1: at this point that he would sign onto a naval

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Speaker 1: ship because he was kind of like, I'm done doing,

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Speaker 1: you know, scraping by on these little chore jobs and

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Speaker 1: working on a farm and stuff. So he signs on

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Speaker 1: to work in the navy. But an accident occurred that

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Speaker 1: would change his life. No, a steel hatch cover fell

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Speaker 1: on his head, cracking his skull and damaging his frontal lobe,

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Speaker 1: which is a part of your brain that regulates executive

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Speaker 1: functions like memory, emotion, impulse control, problem solving, and social interaction.

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Speaker 1: So those aren't that important that those are very secondary

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Speaker 1: skills for a human being. He had luxuriant black hair

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Speaker 1: before this that he was very proud of, but the

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Speaker 1: accident caused it to be sheared off, of course, and

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Speaker 1: then it stopped growing. That's that is difficult to deal with.

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Speaker 1: And there were grew some scars in its place on

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Speaker 1: top of his head. So I think it really was

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Speaker 1: a big blow to his ego, um, because he was

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Speaker 1: sort of good looking before that and now he's you know,

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Speaker 1: probably feeling pretty gross, and his personality underwent serious changes,

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Speaker 1: which can happen when you have damaged to your frontal lobe. Right, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up we've probably all heard by now,

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Speaker 1: the story of Phineas Gauge that they talked about him

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Speaker 1: in Stranger Things. It's been in a lot of movies

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Speaker 1: and pop culture and stuff they talked about, but this

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Speaker 1: is a real case where the guy got he was

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Speaker 1: working in a mine or something and the is an

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Speaker 1: explosion and a steel rod shot straight through his head,

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Speaker 1: came out the other side, and he was fine. They

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Speaker 1: were amazed because he was like, he got up, I've

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Speaker 1: like kept working or something. He was totally fine. And

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Speaker 1: then in the coming months people started to say that

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Speaker 1: his entire personality change and he got really mean and

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Speaker 1: crouchy and stuff. And that was sort of the first

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Speaker 1: instance of them discovering, oh, you can funk up part

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Speaker 1: of the brain and affect a part of a person.

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Speaker 1: You know, during that correlation between that specific part of

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Speaker 1: the brain and those specific elements of your personality. Well,

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Speaker 1: just to steal spike away from being a dick, Hey,

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Speaker 1: some of us don't even need that. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: some of us couldn't use a steel spike shift things

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Speaker 1: in the other direction. Terry Pratchett, and one of his

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Speaker 1: books has a joke about retro phrenology. His phrenology for

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Speaker 1: people who don't know is this not very scientifics thing

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Speaker 1: where apparently you're supposed to be able to tell a

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Speaker 1: lot about your personality by kind of examining the bumps

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Speaker 1: and hollows of your your head. And Terry Pratchett has

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Speaker 1: a really fun joke and hit one of his books

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Speaker 1: about how if stands to reason that if bumps and

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Speaker 1: hollows cause personality characteristics, that if you were to hit

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Speaker 1: yourself on the head and cause bumps and hollows in

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Speaker 1: certain areas, you could adjust your personality accordingly. And so

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Speaker 1: he has this troll who's a retrophrenologist and he hits

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Speaker 1: you with varying sizes of hammers on the head to

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Speaker 1: giant and change a personality. So maybe we need to

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Speaker 1: try an iron spike version of that. Yeah, with these

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Speaker 1: personality changes came severe headaches. He would be sullen and grumpy.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes he'd even just fly off into a rage at nothing,

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Speaker 1: you know, tiniest provocation. So Murder Pda says that the

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Speaker 1: ship docked in December and Raymond was placed in the

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Speaker 1: hospital until March of n and then he booked passage

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Speaker 1: to Alabama. And he's told a bunch of clothes and

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Speaker 1: items on the ship while he was traveling. So he

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Speaker 1: shows up in Alabama, tries to pass through customs and

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Speaker 1: they're like, uh, none of the ship you have belongs

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Speaker 1: to you, and he was promptly arrested. Yeah. I was

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Speaker 1: clearly labeled as property of the ship itself. So it

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Speaker 1: was kind of like, what why did you do that?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I wore this captain's uniform on the ship

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Speaker 1: when I got here. This is mine. I still got

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Speaker 1: the tags on it, sir. So I don't know murder

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Speaker 1: pds as. He had no explanation for his conduct, and

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Speaker 1: when he was asked why he stole the stuff, he said,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't think. I can't say why

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Speaker 1: I did it. I just saw other men putting a

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Speaker 1: towel or two of their bags. I thought I did

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Speaker 1: the same. I mean, you know, I just couldn't seem

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Speaker 1: to stop. Well that's that impulse control. That's the difference.

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Speaker 1: So Raymond's very different. At this point. They want, they

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Speaker 1: want you to take the towels, but just too you

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Speaker 1: gotta you gotta stop. It's like the robes in a

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Speaker 1: hotel room. Yeah, a little shampoop. I took a shampoo bottle.

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Speaker 1: I took a little bar soap. I took the remote control,

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Speaker 1: I took the TV, I took the lazy boy, took

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Speaker 1: the many fridge, and I took the cash register. What

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Speaker 1: do you want? They want you to have them. That's

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00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,399
Speaker 1: why they put him in the room. So he is

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Speaker 1: arrested for this theft and he's put in a federal

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Speaker 1: penitentiary in Tallahassee, Florida for a year. Wow. Really Yeah,

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Speaker 1: apparently the judge was kind of one of those no nonsense,

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00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 1: like zero tolerance types. But I don't think that this

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00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 1: was the right move because he ended up meeting a

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Speaker 1: cellmate who was a Haitian man and introduced Raymond to

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Speaker 1: the mysteries of voodoo and a cult magic. So Raymond's

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Speaker 1: learning about the stuff from this Haitian man and he

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Speaker 1: becomes convinced that he is a priest or an ungun

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Speaker 1: in Haitian vodoo, and this gave him power over women,

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Speaker 1: even from many miles away. So he thought he could

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Speaker 1: make love to women by putting like powders in an

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Speaker 1: envelope and sending it to them. He thought that if

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Speaker 1: they sent him a lock of hair, he could use

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Speaker 1: it in a voodoo ritual. To bind them to him

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Speaker 1: and basically make him irresistible to them, make them his

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Speaker 1: sex slaves. And I just want to point out here

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Speaker 1: that Raymond knew nothing at all about actual Haitian vodoo practices.

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Speaker 1: He only at the time, of course, anything coming out

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00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 1: of countries with a lot of black people in it

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Speaker 1: was seen as being fully evil dark magic. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: he only understood it to be, you know, something full

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Speaker 1: of human sacrifice and torture and blood and like dark

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Speaker 1: weird ship. And that's not accurate. All the books he

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00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 1: was reading that he got his spells from and stuff

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00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 1: were written by white men in the eighteen eighties, so

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Speaker 1: I don't think that they really had a very good

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Speaker 1: grasp of what they were talking about. And if he

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00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 1: had been a true of Vodo Ngan, he would have

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Speaker 1: been tasked with making remedies for sick people and running ceremonies.

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Speaker 1: He would not be getting hair from strangers and turning

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Speaker 1: them into sex slaves. That's not a thing from what

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00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,880
Speaker 1: I understand. That is not a thing in the Haitian

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Speaker 1: Haitian religions. I'll tell you what. It's not a thing anywhere.

337
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 1: But anyway, so one way or another, Raymond leaves jail

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00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 1: thinking he's got magic sharp turn from servant ice cream

339
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,679
Speaker 1: to the troops. So he gets out of jail and

340
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,920
Speaker 1: he goes to move in with his sister in Brooklyn,

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00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 1: and he starts to write letters in response to lonely

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00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 1: Hearts ads. And these were ads that were placed in

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00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 1: newspapers from people who were looking to connect with someone

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00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,480
Speaker 1: for hopefully a romantic relationship. And it seems weird in

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00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 1: this day and age because we have so many dating apps.

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00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 1: People meet almost exclusively online, but back in the day,

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00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,639
Speaker 1: it was really embarrassing to have to place an ad

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00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: to find a husband. So a lot of the women

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00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 1: that Raymond wrote to were older women. They thought love

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00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 1: had passed them by. They were un ironically called spinsters

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00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: or they were lonely widows, so they were very easy prey.

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00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 1: So he would write them these flowery letters and asked

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Speaker 1: for all these romantic things like a lack of hair,

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00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: and thinking that they finally found true love. The women

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00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 1: often fell for it, he would promise Mary, but he

356
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 1: would then embezel checks and money and jewelry and anything

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00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 1: he could get from them, and then he would cut

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00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 1: off contact total ghostings. Most of these women were too

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00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 1: embarrassed to go to the police to report these crimes because,

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00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 1: like we said, they were ashamed of placing this ad

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00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 1: in the first place. They were scared to admit that

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00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,159
Speaker 1: maybe they had allowed physical intimacies with a man to

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00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 1: whom they were not married, right, that was also a

364
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 1: big shameful thing. And then obviously on top of all that,

365
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 1: they were extra ashamed that they'd fallen first tricks in

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Speaker 1: the first place. So he's able to just keep doing

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00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:37,240
Speaker 1: this without getting in trouble because, surprise, surprise, when women

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00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: go to the authorities to say, hey, a man did

369
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 1: something terrible to me, the first question is always and

370
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 1: has always been, well, what did you do wrong? What

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00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: were you wearing when he wrote you this letter? A

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00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 1: blue parasol? You were asking for it? Seriously? Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he didn't make a ton of money off of any

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Speaker 1: of these women. It's not like he was going after,

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00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,439
Speaker 1: you know, Mrs Rockefeller or something like that. But he

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00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: had so many correspondents that it was kind of his

377
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: living for a while with these confidence scams. And in

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00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: nineteen forty seven he started writing to a woman named

379
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Speaker 1: Jane Lucilla Thompson, who had recently separated from her husband,

380
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: and after some letter writing back and forth, she agreed

381
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: to meet him in person. This is sort of his

382
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 1: standard way of going about it. They would write for

383
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,640
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, then he'd be like, let's meet,

384
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: and they would and that's usually when he'd get their

385
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: money somehow. In October of ninety seven, Jane bought them

386
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: cruise tickets to Spain, and using her money, they traveled

387
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: around Spain for a few weeks and they booked nice

388
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: hotels as man and wife. They were dining and sight

389
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: seeing and having a great time together. And like I said,

390
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 1: Raymond was a pretty good looking guy. He wore a

391
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: thick to pay to hide his scars and his baldness,

392
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 1: so they didn't know anything about that accident. And he

393
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: was also very good at making whomever he was with

394
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: kind of feel like the only woman in the world.

395
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: He'd be like, you're the most beautiful, desirable woman that

396
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: I've ever at. I don't want to look at anybody else.

397
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: So he's very charming. He's got a lot of charm

398
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 1: in charisma. And so Jane had left her husband behind

399
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, and she's like, I got this hot

400
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: new man in my life and we're jet setting it

401
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: in Europe and stuff, so she's probably hanging out with

402
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,360
Speaker 1: one of her friends and she was just like, Oh,

403
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: you wouldn't believe this man i've met. He's so handsome,

404
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: really so European. He's a Latin lover. Oh my good.

405
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: And we're going to go travel around Spain and see

406
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: all the sights and he's going to treat me like

407
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 1: a million dollars. Okay, thanks, Jane, I know you're jealous

408
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: by Oh my heart's broken. I'm going to write a

409
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 1: letter of the really hearts blue you ship. That's where

410
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 1: I met him. What a great spot to great anybody.

411
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: It's very shameful, maybe maybe except weirdly, Raymond decided to

412
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 1: take Jane to meet his wife, and Carne Oh my God,

413
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: says he introduced his wife as an friend to Jane,

414
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: even though they were still legally married. Can't really find

415
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: out anything about incarnation, because why would she just let

416
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: some guy johned around the world, leaving her with the kids,

417
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 1: and then bring another woman home to her. Well, I

418
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: let me pull into speculation station about incarnastition because I

419
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: wondered about this. She might be another woman in his life,

420
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: who was sort of like, you do whatever you need

421
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: to do to pay my bills. I don't care. Because

422
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: they dined out together and stuff, so I think she

423
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: knew that he was romancing this lady and she was

424
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: just like, well, that's how he makes money. And I

425
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: got four kids to feed, so I don't care. I

426
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, maybe she just didn't really care

427
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: about him, and she's like, sure, go off with whoever.

428
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: I don't really give a ship. What was so special

429
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: about Raymond? This is just I want you to go

430
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: out and do what you need to do to pay

431
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: pay for these kids. I guess, and you can. If

432
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: that includes old American widows, then whatever, I'll play along.

433
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: This is that level of devotion that we're talking about.

434
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: Would you okay, so you wouldn't let me, You wouldn't

435
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: murder someone for me, But would you go out and

436
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: scam a bunch of old rich guys for me? I

437
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: would be so bad at that. Oh my god, I

438
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: have no patience at all. So they would say something

439
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: stupid and I'd be like, let me just give me

440
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: your wallet, give me your wallet, Okay, I'm leaving. Fuck

441
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: you goodbye, sir, I said, good day. I thought we

442
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: had you did have something, but now I have it.

443
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: See you're so good at this. Incarnaston's reasons are lost

444
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: to history, but whatever they are, she did meet Jane.

445
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: They dined out together a few times even but in

446
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: November a fight broke out between Raymond and Jane and

447
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: he was seen running away from their hotel. He left

448
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: the country by the first boat back to America. Some fight.

449
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: This isn't like you left the milk out again. I

450
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: didn't have milk last night, so it wasn't me. Well

451
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: I didn't do it. Must have been your little friend.

452
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 1: That's it. I'm out of here. Vote back to America.

453
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: The next day, Jane was found dead in the hotel

454
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: room for leaving the milk out. She was buried without

455
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 1: an autopsy. Later on, her body would be exhumed and

456
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: she was found to have died of digitalist poisoning. And

457
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: Raymond had forged a will in Jane's hand, saying that

458
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: she had left all her money and her apartment to him.

459
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 1: So he went back to New York and moved in

460
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: with Jane's elderly mother, who also lived at her apartment.

461
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: And he was like, sure, you can stay here. No, problem.

462
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: I don't care. And the mom was like, oh, what

463
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: a what a nice guy, what a sweet gentleman. I

464
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: can see why she would have scribbled out this will

465
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: to leave everything to him. That makes sense to me.

466
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 1: Back of a hotel receipt. Yeah, So he moves in

467
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: and he continues his correspondence with the Lonely Hearts club women.

468
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: And one of the women and he was writing too,

469
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: was called Martha Beck. How about we take a little

470
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: break before we get into back. Great, and we'll come

471
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: back right after this. Welcome back. Now we're talking about

472
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: Martha Beck, one of Raymond's many love letter lovers. Love

473
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: Letter Lovers, The love Letter Lovers next on Hallmark. So

474
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: Martha was born Martha Seabrook in Milton, Florida, in nineteen twenty.

475
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: Martha had a glandular condition that caused her to develop prematurely. Now.

476
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: She was ridiculed by her peers and her mother for

477
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: being overweight for most of her life, and she claimed

478
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: at her murder trial spoiler alert that her brother had

479
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: raped her when she was thirteen, and when she told

480
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: her mother about it, her mother blamed her for it

481
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: and beat her. Classic. Yeah, So she was remote and

482
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: lonely and had no friends her own age ship parents

483
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: on both side to this. Yeah, I love story here.

484
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: So Martha became a nurse, but she couldn't find a job,

485
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: and she said it was because of her appearance, and

486
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: that's certainly possible. People do discriminate against overweight people and

487
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: obest people, and they certainly did back then as well.

488
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: She's the one who said that, But I believe her.

489
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: I think that's probably she might have been told to

490
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: her face, sorry, you're too fat to work here. And

491
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: she ended up getting a job at a mortuary preparing

492
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: women's dead bodies for burial, and that's like the best

493
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: job she could get. So we're talking about a lonely

494
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: person who then spends all day around dead people. And

495
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: she had graduated at the top of her class in

496
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: two and by all accounts, she was a very good nurse.

497
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: So there's a few sources are like this is probably

498
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: a real source of anger and humiliation for her that

499
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: the best job she could find was in a mortuary

500
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: when she could she could do more. She was smart,

501
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: she was dedicated, he was motivated. So she would escape

502
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: into true romance magazines and going to the movies with

503
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: her with her favorite leading man, Charles Boyer. Big shot

504
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: movies started back in the early forties, and after eight

505
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: months of working in the mortuary, she learned that there

506
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: was a nurse shortage in California, so she moved out

507
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: west and she got a job at an army hospital.

508
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: So like this is around and at night she would

509
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: go out to the bars and she would pick up soldiers.

510
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: Sometimes she would have sex with them, and as a result,

511
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: she got pregnant. When she told the father, this motherfucker

512
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: he tried to commit suicide by throwing himself into the bay,

513
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: Jesus so fucking harsh. Yeah, you'd rather be dead than

514
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: have a kid with me or marry me? Yeah, I

515
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: mean I just, first of all, that guy's crazy. But

516
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: also Martha, I can't even imagine, like if somebody threw

517
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: himself into the fucking ocean because he got me pregnant,

518
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: I don't even know what a blow that would be

519
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: to my selfest team, and she barely had any to

520
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: begin with right now, Speculation stations. Probably something else going

521
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: on with that guy. I mean, it's probably more than

522
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: just like I don't know it was. It was a

523
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: tough time early nineties, for a soldier. Probably probably a

524
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: lot going on in there, but at any rate, still, yeah,

525
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: apparently she may have even spent a few days in

526
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: a psychiatric hospital because of this, um I send me.

527
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: They did plead for insanity, so they talked about some

528
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: of this. I don't know exactly if the records exist

529
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: or if they were just saying it. Right. So Martha

530
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: is super depressed, she's alone, she's pregnant, and she goes

531
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: back to Florida. She's like, fun California. Yeah, it's remember,

532
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: so it's not the coolest thing in the world to

533
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: be an unwed mother, right, doesn't exactly put yet the

534
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: top of the social ladder. So Martha put on a

535
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: fake wedding ring and she told people that she had

536
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: married a Navy officer who was all fighting in the war.

537
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: She arranged to have a telegram sent to herself saying

538
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: that he perished in battle, and then she was just

539
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: in hysterics after reading it. I mean, putting on quite

540
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: a show. Oh yeah, they even that. The whole town

541
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: was really sympathetic. They even ran the story in the

542
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: local paper. She got a lot of attention for it.

543
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: She went all in on everything. But I think it's

544
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: important to just for the pattern, I guess is just

545
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 1: like she is super lonely. Everyone's talking about her looks.

546
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: She can't get a guy to stay with her, and they,

547
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: I guess they only use her for physical connections for

548
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: a little while, and then they shuffle her off. Sailors,

549
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: Am I right serious? And and then the like the

550
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: best attention she's ever gotten is because of a fake

551
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: husband who died, You know what I mean. It's just

552
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: like her romance was like the most positive even though

553
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: it was fake. It's like the most positive thing that

554
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: had happened to her. So in early four she gave

555
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: birth and this is her daughter, will A Dean. A

556
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: few months later she met a bus driver named Alfred Beck,

557
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: who also got her pregnant, but at least they got married,

558
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: and then six months later they divorced, so she was

559
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: left alone now with two small children. Because of course

560
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: kids are you have a problem, says Alfred Beck on

561
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: Alfred Beck, I got places to be, I got things

562
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: to do. These kids, you would deal with them. I'm

563
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: a bus driver, I'm going places, literally gonna be in

564
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: Chicago by tuesday. So she's left alone with these two kids.

565
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: She just lost her job, and so now she also

566
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: had no income on top of all that. And again

567
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: she escaped back into her romance novels and her movies,

568
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: dreaming of the day when her own Romeo would appear

569
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: and sweep her off her feet one day Charles Charles

570
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: Boyle Boyle for here, but yes, Charles Boyer, who went

571
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,719
Speaker 1: she was full Boyer, she went full boy or for Boyer.

572
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: All right, you guys are still learning about us, and

573
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: Brooklyn nine is another one that's going to come up

574
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: a lot. Sometimes Diana will just seriously, like out of nowhere,

575
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: sitting on the couch, and she'll just turn to me

576
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: and say a sentence that it makes no sense to me.

577
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: I don't know where it came from, out of the

578
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: absolute blue, and I think for a second, ago, well,

579
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: that must have been at Brooklyn. And she was like, yeah,

580
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: obviously it's because of the conversation I was having in

581
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: my head led me to quote, and then I had

582
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: to say it out loud. Yeah, he's not part of this.

583
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: I was not included in the lead. She was full

584
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: Boyer anyway for Boyer, dreaming of Charles Boyer to come

585
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: sweeper off her feet. And six she secured a job

586
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: at the Pensacola Children's Hospital, and she was very quickly

587
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: promoted to the nurse superintendent. Yeah. Again, she's pretty good nurse.

588
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: Apparently she's good at stuff. When she her mind of something,

589
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: she's good at it. He says, I'm gonna put my

590
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: mind to school graduate top of my class. I'm gonna

591
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: put my mind to creating a fake husband, and I'm

592
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: fully I'm gonna cry about it when you get in

593
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: the papers. Um. She even she did right about why

594
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: she chose to be a nurse. She said, I chose

595
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: this profession without thought of self, not for material gains,

596
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: but for the purpose of aiding humanity and rendering service

597
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: to others. Right. So, then at this point, either she

598
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: got herself a form to fill out for the Lonely

599
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: Hearts Club or murder. PDS said that a coworker pranked

600
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: her by giving her this form, because again, it's meant

601
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: to be a shameful thing that you need to place

602
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: an ad to find a husband. If it was a

603
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: prank from a co worker, it made her breakdown into tears. Um.

604
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: But she did place the ad in a lonely Hearts

605
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: club called Mother Denyn's Friendly Club, which I just think

606
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: it's funny and the idea hears you fill out a

607
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: little application about yourself and then they run your little age, sex,

608
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: location kind of stuff, and then you start getting letters

609
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: if people get interested in you. Proto tender exactly exactly,

610
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: proto okay, keep it or whatever. I guess more like

611
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: any harmony or something. Yeah, more like match or whatever. Hi,

612
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: I'm mother denyin. HI guarantee you joined my friendly Club

613
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: and we'll match you with the first person we pull

614
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: out of this pile. So she, uh, she filled that

615
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: ship out and she waited for someone to write to her,

616
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: and she, much like today, did leave out some information,

617
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: for example, her weight, which at the time was over

618
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: two hundred pounds, and she left out the fact that

619
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: she had two children. And her only reply came two

620
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: weeks later from Raymond Fernandez. Raymond always always looking out

621
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: for the next, for the next ex Mrs Fernandez. He

622
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: told her he was a wealthy and successful man in

623
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: the import export business. I love that, such a catch

624
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: all import export. Like you could just say that about

625
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: anything that was an old Seinfeld? Oh was it? Yeah?

626
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: Art Van Delay was character made up here? Like what

627
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: does he do he's an importer, exporter, imports and exports. Yeah,

628
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: firsty imports export something like that. Well, Raymond is like

629
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: art vandalais I guess in this scenario. So he told

630
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: her he lived alone, quote here in this apartment much

631
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: too large for a bachelor, but I hope someday to

632
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: share it with a wife. He liked that she was

633
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: a nurse because he said, quote, I know you have

634
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: a full heart with a great capacity for comfort and love,

635
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: when really he was like, oh, nurses have money, right.

636
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: They rode to each other for several weeks. Raymond asked

637
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: for a lock of her hair, which thrilled Martha, so romantic,

638
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: and they exchanged photographs, but Martha was still concealing her

639
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: weight from him. So there's a little anecdote about how

640
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: she sent him a picture of all the nurses, like

641
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: all lined up outside the hospital so he couldn't tell

642
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: which one was her, I guess. And then she just said,

643
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't do me justice. That's a tinder trick, you know.

644
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: And I have like I post a picture of me

645
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: and the boys at the beach and everybody's got their

646
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: shirts off. You always gonna be like, who's the ugliest boy,

647
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: because that's the one talking to me. Damn, that was me. Well,

648
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: I think really, honestly, she was afraid that he would

649
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: say something cruel or immediately stopped talking to her, like

650
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: she would prefer the fantasy to the reality. Almost understandable,

651
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: but considering what she's been through and how people have

652
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: tried her in the past, of course, of course she's

653
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: going to be protective about her appearance. But he actually

654
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: came down to Florida to meet with her in person

655
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: for the first time, and she was goo goo gaga,

656
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: thrilled with this guy because she quite frankly thought that

657
00:36:53,360 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: he looked like Charles Boyer, the movie star, and he

658
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: didn't seem to care that she was overweight, and he

659
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: liked her kids. So he stayed for a few days.

660
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: Package Yeah right, I mean, this guy that looks like

661
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: my favorite movie star, he's not judgmental, he's in the kids,

662
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: doesn't mind that I lied to him about all that

663
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: come off. So he stayed there for a few days,

664
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: and then he said, I've got to go back to

665
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: New York for business. You know how New York is,

666
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: It's all business all the time. I gotta imports. I

667
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: gotta exports. I got going on, got a big import

668
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: coming in on Tuesday, and then Thursday, you know, it's

669
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: export days, go out. Oh, it's all very technical, you know, imports.

670
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: And then you can't just import, you know, that's a

671
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: one way street. You gotta export. But he goes back

672
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: to New York, but he promises that he'll send her

673
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: money and she's gonna join him in New York, which

674
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: she apparently interpreted as a proposal. I mean, you know,

675
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: if you're like, you're gonna move the New York with me,

676
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: and she's, oh my god, this movie star looking guy,

677
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this importer or exporter just asked me

678
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: to move in with him in New York. And it's

679
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: so if you move in with someone that's as good

680
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: as I proposed. So it must be said he may

681
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: have mentioned something about being willing to marry her in

682
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 1: the letters, because he did do that all the time.

683
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: But still she kind of jumped the gun on this one.

684
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: I was really trying to make sure it might have

685
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: been dropping little hints. I think he did. I don't

686
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: think it came out of nowhere for sure, because he

687
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: was very much about, yeah, we'll get married. Absolutely we'll

688
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: get married crafty. So he probably did it in such

689
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: a way that, you know, gas lighting her into thinking

690
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: that they were going to do this. But then later

691
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: he can say, well, I never technically said that. I

692
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: never hand your ring and said let's get married. So

693
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: she told everyone around town that she was about to

694
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: be married, and she even had a bridal shower throne

695
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: for her when actually Raymond discovered that Martha didn't have

696
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: no money, that nurse salary wasn't all it was cracked

697
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: up to be, and that she'd lost her job and

698
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: it was just two kids to take care of, and

699
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: she didn't have no assets, and he couldn't get anything

700
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: from her. So he got back to New York and

701
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 1: sent her a little letter, A little Dear John letter

702
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: said I'm just not into this. Actually. You know what,

703
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: now that I think about it, I think we need

704
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: to keep this space between us. So rude, I mean,

705
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: and you know, you almost want to give him credit

706
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: for at least sending a letter and not just totally ghosting.

707
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: I guess so he should have just done another little

708
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: ritual or something to make him stop loving him. He's

709
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: going through the fake book being like, all right, where's

710
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: the cancel loves and they're like, nope, there's one of

711
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 1: those you gotta be careful for. You can't. These love

712
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: spells a lot harder. You gotta get a tooth. It's

713
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 1: not just a lot of hair that is harder to

714
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't be so weird if you're like, I love you

715
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,240
Speaker 1: so much, honey, will you please send me a token

716
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 1: of your affection like a tooth. Oh Man, so rude.

717
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: So he says, so none of this, thanks for everything,

718
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: and let's be perfectly honest. She should have left well

719
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,439
Speaker 1: enough alone at that point and said on the next one.

720
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 1: But she didn't because Martha was abruptly fired from her

721
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: job at the children's hospital. Um, she's a lot. It

722
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: was because of her scandalous affair with her Latin lover,

723
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: and it was seven so women could be fired for

724
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: having sex outside of marriage. It meant you had a

725
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: low character and you were a loose woman. So I

726
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: think that she was probably right about that. We don't

727
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: have time party a loose women running around this store

728
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: were representative of us. Every time you walk out the door.

729
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: If somebody comes into h puffing stuffs and sees some

730
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: kind of floozy working behind the counter. This is the

731
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 1: h fluffing stuff's children's hospital. How did they see some

732
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: floozy working behind the counter. They're going to take their

733
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: sick kids somewhere else. We can't afford to lose that

734
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: kind of business, right. I was always like, well, what

735
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: can she do? Do you think she's going to like

736
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: influence the children in to like have a love letter relationship.

737
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. Kids don't list all these social structure

738
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: rules you gotta get loose. So she's fired, and she's like, oh,

739
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: hell no, I'm not about to do this by myself again.

740
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: So she straight up packed up all her ship, took

741
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 1: her two kids, and went to Raymond's house in New York.

742
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: And he was very surprised when she was on his doorstep,

743
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna live with you now, like just not asking,

744
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: I'm here to live with you. But he kind of

745
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: liked that she catered to his every need. She cooked

746
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: for him and cleaned for him. So, I mean, there's

747
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: some debate about whether or not he was actually in

748
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: love with her at this point or not, but he

749
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: may have been had some real feelings for her, maybe

750
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: because she's she is such a personality. I don't know,

751
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: but yeah, at the very least, he was like, well,

752
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 1: it's nice to have a woman around to do the chores.

753
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: So I guess you can stay, but I ain't having

754
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: these children around. I don't want these kids. They gotta go.

755
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: You can stay, but they gotta go. And of course

756
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: Martha was like okay, and she promptly abandoned them at

757
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: the Salvation Army on January and now and you can go.

758
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: You can go into Salvation Army and pick up second

759
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: hand kids for a dollar. Can you imagine leaving one

760
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: at a Salvation Army? Now? Very weird? Can I just

761
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: put this in the in the bin outside or just

762
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 1: leave on the crib? Do I can attack for seat?

763
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: How much does that worth? Yes, let's not get into that.

764
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: Every time I clean out my spare room, there's like

765
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: three more kids in there, and I just don't know

766
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 1: where to put them. Really, I just I've just outgrown

767
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: this one, you know what I mean. So at this point,

768
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: and I don't know why, maybe he was trying to

769
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: scare her off, I don't know, or he was in

770
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:53,879
Speaker 1: love with or any wanted to be honest, I really

771
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: don't know. But at this point, Raymond came clean, and

772
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: he told her all about his wife in Spain. He

773
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: told her about Jane, he told her about all his

774
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: lonely heart scams. He laid it out, and of course

775
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: Martha is disgusted and afraid, and she's like, I'm leaving,

776
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: just kidding. She didn't do any of those things. She said, Oh, okay,

777
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: well sure, how about I help you out. Geez. I'm

778
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: very good at picking a direction and going in that direction.

779
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: And I wonder, I'm like, maybe there was something appealing

780
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: about it for her in writing the letters. Again, these

781
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: like fake romances she could lose herself in that had

782
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: actually no real life implications for her, at least obviously

783
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: for them. They very much did. But like she just,

784
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: you know, she needs to worry about getting pregnant, she

785
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: need to worry about her heart being broken. She was

786
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: totally in control. She got to read and write a

787
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: lot of flowery ship. I mean, I wonder if that

788
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: kind of was enough for her to be like, sure,

789
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: all right, this is fun. And it's like it was

790
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: the money, you know. Well, it's not like she was

791
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: a person who had a lot of sympathy of the world. No,

792
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 1: it's not like anybody ever treated her well. So she's

793
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: probably like, look, I've tried to working at a children's

794
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: hospital and they kicked me out. I'm trying to give

795
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: to the troops and they kick me out like everywhere

796
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: I go. I got a condition, like I got no

797
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: choice over how I look. But because of that, the

798
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: world keeps rejecting me no matter how many good things

799
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: I try to do. So fine, yeah, funk, I'll scam

800
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 1: a couple of ladies whatever. One of the sources kind

801
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: of was speculating on its own about whether or not

802
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: she that was half of it for her was that

803
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: women had always been mean to her, and so this

804
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: was her chance to kind of be like, hey, now

805
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: I'm hurting you. And it was like a vindictive kind

806
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: of impetus. So I thought that was interesting. She did

807
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,240
Speaker 1: decide to help him, and they started writing to another

808
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: lonely heart, a Pennsylvania woman named Esther Hen, and not

809
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 1: long after they traveled to see her, with Martha posing

810
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: as Raymond's sister in law, and it like lent him respectability.

811
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: It was like his chaperone for the unmarried woman that

812
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: he's going to see. So I was like, oh, I

813
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: feel safe around you. You have your sister or your

814
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: sister in law. She host is either one, and on

815
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: February Raymond and Esther were married in Fairfax, Virginia, in

816
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: the County Clerk's office. This is like a month after

817
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: they started writing to each other. I was like, Esther,

818
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: what are you doing? If they're writing into the Lonely

819
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 1: Hearts Club, they're already ready. I guess They're like, I'm

820
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: just the first. I've tried everything else. I am. I

821
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: am like living this life of shame by by sneaking

822
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: letters off to this magazine and the hopes that someone

823
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: will take me on. So as soon as I get

824
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: somebody who's not like, you know, got snop porn out

825
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 1: of her nose, I'll take it. Yes done, you know, yeah,

826
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: I kind of get it. I guess. I just feel like,

827
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: even if you're desperate, a month is not very long time.

828
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 1: But we dated for six years before we got engaged,

829
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: I know. So anyway, the couple, along with Martha, the

830
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: sister in law, unto they went back to Jane's apartment,

831
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: where they lived minus Jane's elderly mother. At this point,

832
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: she had vacated. Well done, her and Esther told reporters

833
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 1: at the murder trial for four days. He was very

834
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: polite to me. Then he gave me tongue lashings when

835
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't sign over my insurance policies and my teacher's

836
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: pension fund to him. And that I began to hear

837
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: stories about how he went to Spain with a woman

838
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: and she died. So she left him like she just

839
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: kind of ran off one night. Smart. Oh, yeah, Esther

840
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: is the smart one in this story. Even though she

841
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,919
Speaker 1: married a guy after meeting him after one month. Come on, well,

842
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,919
Speaker 1: she learned a lesson. She did, and Martha did keep

843
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: her car and several hundred dollars they had already stolen

844
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: from her, but they did not get her pension, and

845
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: they didn't get her insurance. You know, she got away

846
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 1: of Scott free from that. They ran through this scam

847
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: a few more times, including with a woman named Myrtle

848
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: Young from Arkansas. Raymond and Myrtle married in August of

849
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: nineteen in Illinois. I mean we're February, were esther August.

850
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: We got Myrtle what Martha posed as his sister this

851
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: time and tried everything to keep Raymond from having sex

852
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: with Myrtle. This is something she was getting a little

853
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: starting to take a little seriously, and she's like, we

854
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: can do this without you sleeping with them, And Raymond's like, yeah,

855
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: but and I don't get to sleep at them, right,

856
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: that doesn't work for me. So Martha even slept in

857
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 1: the same bed as Myrtle to to keep that from happening.

858
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: And obviously that was super weird. So Myrtle complained about

859
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 1: it to Raymond, who responded by giving her a heavy

860
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: dose of barbiturates, knocked her unconscious, put her on a

861
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: bus back to Little Rock, unconscious on a bus, which, hey,

862
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: my wife's a heavy sleeper. Will you take her a

863
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: little rock for me? Like? Did no one see her board?

864
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. The bus driver is Alfred Beck. Yeah,

865
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: I gotta be in Chicago by doosday, so let's go.

866
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: And Martha did help carry her, by the way, Yes,

867
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: she was totally in on this plan. And at this

868
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: point he'd already robbed her a four thousand dollars, which

869
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: let's find out what four thousand in today's money was this,

870
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: which today is the equivalent of four thousand, six hundred

871
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: and seventy nine dollars. Oh my god, So that's really taken,

872
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: like their retirement funds or something keeps taking their life

873
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: saving that's a lot of money. And Myrtle had to

874
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: be carried off the bus in Little Rock by police

875
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: because she just never woke up and she died the

876
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 1: next day. So that was one where they were like,

877
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: this is sort of like not his first murder, of course,

878
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: because he murdered Jane, but in this one they're like,

879
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: they might not have meant to kill her, but they

880
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: certainly did kill her, and it's sort of the same

881
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: way that he killed Jane, so it's kind of like

882
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: maybe Raymond is this poison er guy. And then they

883
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: got a little more violent once he got hooked up

884
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: with Martha. So they ran a couple of smaller scams

885
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: with other women, but the money's running out. They need

886
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: a big score, so Raymond starts writing to a sixty

887
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: six year old woman named Janet Faye in Albany, New York.

888
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: She was recently widowed and she was deeply religiou us,

889
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: so he wrote to her under the name Charles Martin,

890
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: and his letters are full of references to God and

891
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: Jesus and the church because he knew, you know, how

892
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: to cater i guess a narrative to the reader, and

893
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: he asked for a lock of her hair. She readily complied,

894
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: and they made plans to meet in person. Can I

895
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: just say that speculation Station, it's kind of no surprise

896
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: to me at this point that Raymond thinks this lock

897
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: of hair voodoo ritual thing totally works. I know, because

898
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: it keeps working. If you took the lock of hair

899
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,919
Speaker 1: element out, I think this scam would still play out

900
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 1: just like it did. But I don't know. Maybe maybe

901
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: maybe it's not magic, but maybe there was a psychological

902
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: element there. They were like a lock if my hair

903
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: of court. Maybe that was just like just that little

904
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: bit more that made them I feel like, Oh, this

905
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: guy really is into me. He wants to keepsake of

906
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 1: me to like have around him, you know. I guess

907
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: that is kind of intimate. Even though it's hair, it's

908
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: like a part of your body that somebody wants to

909
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: hold onto. This kind of making this magic reel in

910
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 1: a way. Yeah. So on December ninety eight, he shows

911
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: up on Janet's doorstep with a bouquet of flowers, and

912
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: over the next few days he introduced her to his

913
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: sister Martha. They toured the city together. She even let

914
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: both of them sleep at her apartment. He proposed, she

915
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: said yes, and she acquiesced to his plans to move

916
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 1: to Long Island, where Martha had already rented an apartment.

917
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: And then she went and made the rounds the next

918
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: day and withdrew six thousand dollars from her bank accounts

919
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: and everything in preparation for this move. And just just

920
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: to keep us on track here, six thousand dollars in

921
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: night is calculating transferred week sixty one thousand, nineteen dollars.

922
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: They all went to Long Island together on January four,

923
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 1: nineteen Hope, you don't mind my just the tagon along.

924
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: She's she's good people. She's just gonna help me carry

925
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: the body, I mean the your body. I mean there, yes,

926
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: your luggage you love full of cash. I mean, oh,

927
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not doing great on this one. Raymond.

928
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: You really all hang out. So there's some varying accounts

929
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: on what happens here because Martha and Raymond told conflicting

930
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: stories to the police because their liars, you see their liars.

931
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 1: One story goes that while Raymond had fallen asleep, Martha

932
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: and Janet got into this argument about Janet writing to

933
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: her stepdaughter, and Martha killed her in a fit of rage.

934
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,720
Speaker 1: But then the other story is that Martha caught Janet

935
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: and Raymond naked in bed together and Janet called her

936
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: the most brazen bitch I've ever seen, and Martha then

937
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: killed her in a fit of jealousy. So either killed

938
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: her in a fit of rage because she was writing

939
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: to her stepdaughter. Yeah, I think she was afraid she'd like,

940
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: like she'd come visit or something maybe, or I don't know.

941
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: It's interesting. I may heard this man and his sister

942
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: follows them round everywhere he goes, and he really wants

943
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: all of my cash, right, and the stepdaughter will be like, um,

944
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: how about you get the funk out of that, I'm

945
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: coming to see you, right. So I think Martha was

946
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: just kind of afraid of the stepdaughter getting involved, rumbling

947
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: them or whatever. So either fit a rage for that

948
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: or fit of jealousy because Raymond decided sixty six, but

949
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 1: she's a look, I'm not beneath it. Well he was blooming.

950
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,240
Speaker 1: Either way, it was definitely Martha who killed Janet. Martha

951
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: herself said she went into a blackout. She had no

952
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: idea what happened until she kind of came to with

953
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: Raymond shaking her shoulders, saying, Martha, Martha, what have you done?

954
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 1: And she looked down and saw that she had hit

955
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: Janet in the head with a ball peen hammer, fracturing

956
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: her skull, and she was bleeding profusely, but she was

957
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: not dead. Raymond finished the job by strangling her with

958
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 1: a scarf. Martha said at her trial that she was

959
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: in some kind of trance during all this and just

960
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: didn't feel like she was really there or something, some

961
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: kind of weird out of body experience answer or whatever.

962
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: They cleaned up the room, they wrapped Janet and towels

963
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: and sheets and shoved her in the closet, and then

964
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: they went to sleep just another night. So the next

965
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: day they wake up, it's morning. The birds are chirping,

966
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: the sun is rising. They get out of bed and

967
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: they stretch, and they say, hell, better take care of

968
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: this dead old woman. And they put Janet in a trunk,

969
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 1: and they decided that they would take her to Raymond's

970
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: actual sister's house. In a story, they convinced the sister, Hey, sis, hey,

971
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: I got a favor for you. Hang out of this

972
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: trunk for me in the basement. Will you do me

973
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: a bigger favor. Don't open it. It's got my my

974
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: dirty andys are in there. You don't want to see

975
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 1: any of that. Just for some reason, I need you.

976
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 1: I need to keep them here for a minute. Um, okay, sure,

977
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: I guess you're a you're a doll sis. Yes, have

978
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: you met my other sister, Martha. You guys don't remember

979
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: each other. So eleven days later, after they leave the

980
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: trunk at his sister's house, they go to get it

981
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 1: and they buried it in the cellar of the house

982
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: they rented in Long Island, and they buried it in

983
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: the basement, covered it with cement, never to be seen

984
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: again until it was found. So they go up and

985
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: they cash all Janet's checks, and they wrote a letter

986
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: to her stepdaughter, Dear Mary, I am all excited and

987
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: having the time of my life. I never felt so

988
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 1: happy before. I soon will be Mrs Martin and go

989
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: to Florida. Mary. I am about to ask you a

990
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: great favor. I would like you to call on the

991
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: American Express Agency and have them ship my trunks and

992
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: boxes that I have there to me. The addresses on

993
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: the various stickers. I am enclosing in the letter, I

994
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: would like to sort out many things before I leave

995
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: for Florida. I am so happy and contented for Charles

996
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: is so good and nice to me, and also his family.

997
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: They have done everything to make me feel comfortable and

998
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: at home. I will close with my best wishes for

999
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: you both and love and kisses for the children. I

1000
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: really do miss you all, but I am sure that

1001
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: my prayers are granted to me by sending me this

1002
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: wonderful man. God bless you all. Janet el Fay kind

1003
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: of laying it on a little thing, and did I

1004
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 1: mention how handsome he is? Not only that, but they

1005
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: made one fatal mistake. Janet didn't have a typewriter. All

1006
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: of her previous letters to her stepdaughter were handwritten, and

1007
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: her stepdaughter Mary also tried sending a letter to the

1008
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: address Janet enclosed, but the letter was returned. So she starts,

1009
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, sleuthing, thinking something's afoot here. I don't know

1010
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: if I trust this letter too much. They also found

1011
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: it very suspicious that she signed it Janet el Fay,

1012
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 1: like it was so formal and like so anyway, they

1013
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 1: just thought it was shady. Yeah, and they were right.

1014
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: Signed definitely your real stepmother. My full name is Janet

1015
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 1: el Faye. Don't ask me what the L stands for.

1016
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: I'm too old and I forgot So her family immediately

1017
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 1: contact the police and this sets them on the trail

1018
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: of the Lonely Hearts killers. But Ray and Martha did

1019
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,959
Speaker 1: not know that. They just continued scheming. He just wrote

1020
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 1: that letter and dusted their hands off, like, ah, we

1021
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: took care of every loose three. Yeah. They had a

1022
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: nice chunk of change from Janet, and now they're on

1023
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: their way to Grand Rapids, Michigan to meet their next target,

1024
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: a woman named Delphine Downing and her two year old

1025
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 1: daughter ray Now Delphine also knew Raymond as Charles Martin,

1026
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: a successful import export businessman. This guy is king of

1027
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: the Hey have a story works, stick to it. What

1028
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: do you import next port? Well, I import exports, exports,

1029
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 1: you know, imports, domestics in the national you get it.

1030
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: She was glad to welcome him when he said he'd

1031
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: come to visit her along with his sister, Martha. Oh

1032
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: you're bringing your sister, okay, how respectable. Oh you two

1033
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: must be so close. I bet you too, get into

1034
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: all kinds of things together. He was very sweet to

1035
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: her child, and he was courteous to her, and everything

1036
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: seemed chill, and they apparently also started having a sexual

1037
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: relationship at that point. And one night Delphine saw Raymond

1038
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: without his tu pay. Oh my god, and this kind

1039
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: of shocked her. In one article they said she said,

1040
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: why you're bald, and in another one she said you're old.

1041
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: So I don't know which one. Either way, she must

1042
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: have been really shocked. She was very surprised, and he

1043
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 1: was kind of like, Oh, what does it matter. You know,

1044
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 1: it's just hair or whatever. I was just feeling nervous

1045
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: or something. You know, He's just trying to play it off.

1046
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: But she's like, you lied to me. I don't trust you.

1047
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: You know, you need to get out of here. She

1048
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: got really upset. I know. I was kind of like, well,

1049
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it turned out she was right to be

1050
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: worried about him and to be like, you're a liar.

1051
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: But if he really just had a to pay and

1052
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: was just a bald guy, I'd be like what a bit,

1053
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: Like that's so mean. But anyway, she was just straight

1054
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: up freaking out. So Martha convinced her to take some

1055
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: sleeping pills to calm down. But she gave her as

1056
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: she do a few too many. Here, just take thirty

1057
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: of these. They're not very strong, No problem. Why don't

1058
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: you wash him down with a little whiskey a little more,

1059
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 1: a little more. So, Delphine's kind of passing out. She

1060
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: didn't feel right. She's sort of freaking out, and the

1061
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: toddler notices and starts to cry our two year old Raynell,

1062
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: and that infuriated Martha, so she grabbed Raynel and started

1063
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: choking her around the neck. And Raymond's pissed. He's like,

1064
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: don't do that, not because it's a child. By the way,

1065
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: he said. When Delphine waked up and she sees the

1066
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: bruises on her kid's neck, she's going to go to

1067
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: the police, and that's gonna like blow our whole thing up.

1068
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: So Martha said, do something. So what did he do? Well,

1069
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: let's see, I'm worried about this kid with bruises on

1070
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: her neck and the woman waking up. Let's see, I

1071
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: should probably come up with a good story so that

1072
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: this looks like a big misunderstanding. Maybe we should just

1073
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 1: get out of here. Maybe we called this one to

1074
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 1: bust and try something. Nope, he grabs a pistol, wraps

1075
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: into his towel and shot Delphine in the head, with

1076
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: the daughter watching the whole time from a few feet away.

1077
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely horrible, nightmare, horrible. They rapped Delphine in a towel

1078
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: and buried her in the basement, and Raymond covered the

1079
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: grave with cement while Martha cleaned up the crime scene. Yikes, Okay,

1080
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: so this is gone from some petty theft to some

1081
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: light poisoning, some casual Oops, we murdered them too, straight

1082
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: up into the head in front of your daughter, Like

1083
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: that's I think we've lost our sympathy for old Martha

1084
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: and Raymond at this point. So they cashed any of

1085
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: Delphine's checks they could find, They looted her jewelry box,

1086
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: they took anything of value, and they made plans to leave.

1087
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: But now there is this two year old hanging out

1088
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: right now, and they don't want a two year old

1089
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: hanging out your ears. So what they do. Martha drowned

1090
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: the baby in a metal tub full of dirty water,

1091
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: which I don't know why. The dirty water. It makes

1092
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: it worse, makes it worse. It does it does I

1093
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: don't know. It's just it's like disrespectful. I mean it's

1094
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: already disrespectful. I don't lack a dignity to it. That

1095
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: just it's the lowest, most disgusting thing a person can do.

1096
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: And then you're like, let me make it a little

1097
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: lower for you. And that just and Raymond dug another

1098
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: grave in the basement that they covered with cement and

1099
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: there was no more two year old. So what they

1100
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: do They went to the movies. They went to the movies.

1101
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 1: They had soda and popcorn, and they went to the

1102
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: movies speculation station. It's February. What movie do you think

1103
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: they saw? Let's see what movies that were out February

1104
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: than Some of the popular movies of the day included

1105
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: Ray Milano in alias Nick Bale, They've Got a Spencer,

1106
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 1: Tracy Deborah Kerr, movie called Edward My Son, bad Boy

1107
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: by Kurt Newman, and cover Up by Alfred E. Green. Definitely,

1108
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: they were like, well, we just covered up a grave,

1109
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 1: so we may as well go to this movie cover Up.

1110
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 1: They probably thought it was funny. They probably did think

1111
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: it was funny. God, these people are the worst. So

1112
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: they went and saw Cover up. I think I'm pretty

1113
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: much into that. I'm making that a historic fact now.

1114
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: And then they came back to their apartment to pack

1115
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: and leave, which they should have done already. By the way.

1116
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: I'm wiped out from burying two bodies in the basement.

1117
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: You want to catch a movie before we get out

1118
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 1: of town? No, you bitch, Let's go. And there was

1119
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: a knock on the door. It was the cops. Mary's

1120
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: cops looking for Janet had found them, and once they

1121
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: entered the house, they also found the freshly dug graves

1122
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: in the basement, and the gig was up. Martha and

1123
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: Raymond were arrested February. Well, let's find out what happened

1124
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: to them right after this Welcome back Encyclopedia dot com

1125
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 1: says that when Raymond was searched, a notebook with the

1126
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: names of over twenty missing women was found on him,

1127
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 1: and apparently initially Raymond confessed to killing over seventeen women,

1128
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: but authorities actually could not tie him to any of

1129
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 1: the murders, and many of the missing women were found

1130
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: perfectly safe and chilling. So another source had said he

1131
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: confessed to killing more people than they actually did because

1132
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: they were in Michigan, which did not have the death penalty,

1133
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: and they were there for Janet from New York, which

1134
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: did have the death penalty, so he was kind of like,

1135
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: maybe if I throw in some extra crimes, you know,

1136
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: they won't send me back to New York. Basically, he

1137
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 1: did tell investigators I'm no average killer, and he and

1138
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: Martha signed a seventy three page confession in front of

1139
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 1: the Kent County d A Roger McMahon, and Roger assured

1140
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: them since they were cooperating, only Raymond would be charged

1141
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 1: with anything, and I don't get maybe six years tops

1142
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: and get out with good behavior. Now, anyone who's seen

1143
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: a law procedural would laugh that bad. That's not true.

1144
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 1: But Roger Ricman is a bigger liar than Raymond is.

1145
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: But also the New York Press got ahold of the story,

1146
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: and the Lonely Hearts case became the number one story

1147
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: in America, and Martha started to be trash talked in

1148
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: the worst way, much worse than Raymond. I mean, her weight,

1149
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: of course, was brought up at every opportunity. They even

1150
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: created opportunities to do this, and they said it was

1151
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: anywhere from two hundred to three hundred pounds. They were

1152
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: all wrong, but they just made up a number. They

1153
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 1: called her a simpering, giggling divorce, called her a weird

1154
01:03:56,520 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: woman and unattractive. One name they called her was the

1155
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 1: obese Ogress. They were so mean that Martha actually wrote

1156
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 1: letters from prison objecting to the way people talked about her,

1157
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 1: which I'm sure people just laughed at, like, oh, maybe

1158
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have murder people, but it's one of those things.

1159
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 1: To me, this just shows that people are just waiting

1160
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: for an iota of permission to be as cruel as possible. Like,

1161
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: all I want to do is say horrible things about

1162
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 1: a fat woman. So as soon as I'm given the

1163
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: opportunity where I can defend myself and say, well, she's

1164
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 1: a murderer, so it's okay, I could say whatever I want,

1165
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: they run for it. They were just waiting to be

1166
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 1: given the okay to be cruel, and that's it's heartbreaking

1167
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, murder p D even was comparing. They

1168
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: brought up Ruth Snyder, who was another murderess who was executed,

1169
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: and apparently studies have been done about how cruel the

1170
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 1: press was to Ruth Snyder in comparison to male killers,

1171
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: and they're they're like, you can see it. It's very clear,

1172
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 1: there's no question about it. Women are treated worse by

1173
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 1: the press than men are, period, regardless of a crime.

1174
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: So this was definitely one of those cases where the

1175
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: press was really trying to be as mean as possible.

1176
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: God just people are just the fucking anyway back to

1177
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,919
Speaker 1: the story, but all these headlines were creating a lot

1178
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: of pressure to convict the two lovers, and more than that,

1179
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: people wanted them to die because of the media. It

1180
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 1: was as if they they're guilt had already been confirmed

1181
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 1: and it was just about getting to a verdict, and

1182
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: that verdict better be death or we're going to have

1183
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 1: a problem. So by March a deal had been cut

1184
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 1: between New York and Michigan where Michigan waived their right

1185
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: to prosecute the charges about the murder of Delphine and

1186
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 1: ray now Downing and extradited them to New York to

1187
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 1: face the charge of the murder of Janet Faye. So

1188
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: that's the only thing they were actually ever charged with,

1189
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 1: even though they were tied to these others, because if

1190
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 1: they went to New York, they could get the electric

1191
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 1: chair so on an extra hot day in July at

1192
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: the Bronx Supreme Court, the trial of the Lonely Heart

1193
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: Skillers began. And this was big news. I mean, spectators

1194
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: filled the courtroom and spilled out into the streets. Everyone

1195
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: in town was showing up for this trial. They were

1196
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: hanging on to every detail. Raymond was first to take

1197
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: the stand. Martha nodded approvingly from her chair, and he

1198
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 1: told the jury that he had nothing to do with

1199
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: killing Janet Fay. He'd only confessed to save Martha. He said,

1200
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: all my statements were made for a purpose of help

1201
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: in Martha. I love her, couldn't be anything else. And

1202
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 1: he told them that the Michigan authorities had assured him

1203
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: that he would only go to jail for a few

1204
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: years and that Martha would be let go. But this

1205
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 1: lurid confession didn't help. They'd really painted a picture for

1206
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: the Michigan d a right. Martha had told them, I

1207
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: can still hear it. The blood was dripping, dripping, dripping,

1208
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: and the sound of it just sounded like it could

1209
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: be heard all over the house. Oh she went real,

1210
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: tell tale heart, Yeah she she did. She also said

1211
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: that when Fernandez was strangling Janet Faye. Her false teeth

1212
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: fell out, and they were smart enough to dispose of

1213
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 1: them because, quote, we realized, in case her body was found,

1214
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: if the teeth were there, that would be a mode

1215
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: of identification, which shows a lot of like thinking power,

1216
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: not like a bit of passion thing. Yeah, does that

1217
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 1: work for false teeth? I just feel like it takes

1218
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 1: away the identification aspect of it. Like the whole point

1219
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 1: is the teeth are embedded in your mouth a certain

1220
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: way that we know that those are your teeth and

1221
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 1: that they match your dental records. But it's like I

1222
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: guess dent would be on on her dental records. Yeah,

1223
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: but that's what I'm saying. They just because she has

1224
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 1: those dentris in her mouth doesn't mean they're hers. You

1225
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 1: could have something on your person that belongs to someone

1226
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 1: else that doesn't. Sure, that doesn't line up as as identification,

1227
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: but still sure, let's get rid of the teeth, you know,

1228
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: cover your basis. Maybe maybe they were like, just cover

1229
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 1: your rest, cover your rest. Raymond also took this opportunity

1230
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 1: on the stand to talk about all the sex he

1231
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,439
Speaker 1: had with all these ladies. I don't mean to brag

1232
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 1: but I did funk all these women. Much was made

1233
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 1: of a three way strip poker game he played with

1234
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 1: Martha and Esther hen the last hand was played for

1235
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: who would have the pleasure of sleeping with Fernandez and

1236
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: Martha one. I'm glad she was imposing as a sister

1237
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 1: this time. That would have been a really weird game

1238
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 1: to play. Esther's like, you guys, do you guys often

1239
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: play strap together? I know, wouldn't Esther be like, um, so,

1240
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,679
Speaker 1: wait a minute, she's your sister in law? But y'all

1241
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 1: fuck yeah, I don't know. That's a weird one. But

1242
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 1: I guess Esther didn't ask a lot of questions. I

1243
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: guess not. Raymond's testimony was so lurid that unauthorized persons

1244
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: were not permitted to loiter outside the courtroom in The

1245
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: New York Times reported that quote many of these would

1246
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 1: be spectators. Predominantly women did without lunch in order not

1247
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 1: to lose that places. Listen. This was the murder podcast

1248
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 1: of its day. Women love a true crime pipe as

1249
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: they were like, I am not missing this ship. I'm

1250
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: staying out right here in my sensible heels and listened

1251
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 1: to everything I have to this dirty story. So then

1252
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:14,759
Speaker 1: it was Martha's turn to take the stand, and everybody

1253
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 1: was very curious about what she was going to say.

1254
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: Was she going to be like, yeah, Raymond's right, I

1255
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 1: did all that myself and everything. But to be fair,

1256
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: the prosecution did go after him for Jane Thompson, and

1257
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: for Delphine and ray now Downing, and for Myrtle Young

1258
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: as well. So they were like, maybe Martha killed Janet,

1259
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 1: but what about all these other women. As soon as

1260
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: they met you, they fucking died, And so people were

1261
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, is she going to take the

1262
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 1: rap for all that too? So she gets on the

1263
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 1: stand and she explains to the prosecution that she had

1264
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 1: been raped as a child, that she was lonely, isolated,

1265
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: that she had tried to commit suicide several times. Because

1266
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: at this point, they're trying for an insanity plea. They're

1267
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:55,679
Speaker 1: trying to get innocent because they're crazy and they don't

1268
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,679
Speaker 1: know that what they're doing is wrong. And she said

1269
01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 1: she knew Raymond was a murderer and that she helped

1270
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: find lonely women to victimize. Sometimes she'd giggle and say

1271
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: things like Raymond got quite a kick out of the

1272
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 1: photographs of some of the old hags who write to

1273
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 1: him and expected him to correspond with them. Which you

1274
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 1: know you're one of the hacks, right, Martha. I mean

1275
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:19,600
Speaker 1: these stupid women actually fell for it. She told the prosecution.

1276
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:22,879
Speaker 1: We loved each other and I consider it absolutely sacred.

1277
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 1: You referred to the love making is abnormal, But for

1278
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 1: the love I had for Fernandez, nothing is abnormal. I

1279
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: feel like some of these things, Nothing about this is normal.

1280
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 1: She also said a request from Mr Fernandez to me

1281
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 1: is a command. I loved him enough to do anything

1282
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 1: he asked me to. She continued to claim that she

1283
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: remembered nothing about killing Janet Faye, but according to Murder

1284
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,759
Speaker 1: pd A, she instructed Raymond to wrap the scarf around

1285
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: Janet's neck and twist it like a tourniquet, claiming with

1286
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 1: a straight face that her training as a nurse taught

1287
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: her that it would stop the bleeding from her head.

1288
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 1: Oh so, speculation station, Maybe not such a good nurse

1289
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: after all. She's like, by the way, if you hit

1290
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: an old lady over the head and cause her to bleed,

1291
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 1: you should wrap a turn to get about her neck

1292
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: and squeeze it really hard. When she described some of

1293
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: the sex acts connected to Raymond's voodoo practice. Two dozen

1294
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 1: pops had to be called for crowd control as people

1295
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 1: tried to push into the courtroom to hear the details.

1296
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,680
Speaker 1: After forty four days of testimony, the trial went to

1297
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 1: jury on August and the next morning, both Martha and

1298
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 1: Raymond were found guilty of first degree murder, with no

1299
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 1: recommendation for mercy. Neither of them showed any emotion as

1300
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: the verdict was read and they were both transferred to

1301
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 1: Sing Sing prison. Martha submitted a list of people who

1302
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 1: could visit her, which included her children. Hi, mom, I'm

1303
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: not sure they'd want to see her. Hey remember your

1304
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 1: mother that dropped you off of the salvation on me? Well,

1305
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 1: she just got convicted of murder. You want to go

1306
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 1: say hi? No, thank you. She also included her mother

1307
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: and her brother weird with her claims of rape and abuse,

1308
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 1: and I don't know, maybe she wanted to put all

1309
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: that behind her before, yeah, I don't know, or she

1310
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 1: was like, look what you did to me, come talk

1311
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 1: to me. I don't know. Yeah, maybe she really wanted

1312
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 1: to tell him off one last time, or maybe she

1313
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 1: was so lonely that she was just like any yeah,

1314
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,639
Speaker 1: their family, So I don't know. Public still hadn't lost

1315
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 1: their thirst for these stories about Martha and Raymond, and

1316
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 1: they got what they wanted. In September nineteen fifty, it

1317
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: was rumored that Martha was having an ongoing sexual relationship

1318
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: with one of the prison guards, and that story made

1319
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: front page news. She said in a letter to the

1320
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: warden that the rumor was started by Raymond and it

1321
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: was quote one of the most asinine and ridiculous statements

1322
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 1: ever made. She said that her family probably heard the

1323
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:57,599
Speaker 1: rumor and it would be a shock and embarrassment to them. Oh,

1324
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 1: I'd hate to embarrass my family after a shock and

1325
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 1: embarrass Frost Country homicide. It wasn't all the death and stuff,

1326
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: It wasn't killing a baby. It was this. Raymond submitted

1327
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 1: papers to have his case dropped because the triangle I guess,

1328
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:16,679
Speaker 1: the love triangle between him Martha and then this prison

1329
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 1: guard subjects him to mental torture beyond endurance, but also

1330
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: asked that he'd be executed right away to end his

1331
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: living death. So one or the other, look, either kill

1332
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 1: me now or get me out of here right. Either way,

1333
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:35,520
Speaker 1: I can't deal with my my non wife Martha sleeping

1334
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,840
Speaker 1: with a prison guard that she's not even sleeping with.

1335
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:40,680
Speaker 1: Martha wrote to her attorney, what do they expect me

1336
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 1: to do? Sit here and let him destroy the one

1337
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 1: thread of decency I have left. He has done so

1338
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 1: much talking about how he has me wrapped around his

1339
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 1: little finger that it was a blow to his ego

1340
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 1: when I unwrapped myself and forgot about him. All I

1341
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 1: can say is what a character girl. You didn't unwrap yourself.

1342
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,679
Speaker 1: You are in prison for helping him murder a bunch

1343
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 1: of people. I love this, like old married couple bickering

1344
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:08,920
Speaker 1: they're going through in separate, just like, oh my god,

1345
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 1: I have to tell him what now? And another thing,

1346
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 1: I always hate it when he left all the cabinets open.

1347
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:17,440
Speaker 1: You know what, maybe that's what drove being a murder.

1348
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:19,679
Speaker 1: I do hate that when you do that. Look, it's

1349
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:21,599
Speaker 1: got a lot better and there's a lot of things.

1350
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: You know why. I know because I used to not

1351
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: think about it, and now I think about it all

1352
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 1: the time. Good. I'm glad to have a positive effect

1353
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 1: on you. I don't Yeah, no, it is. I'd rather

1354
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:35,600
Speaker 1: close the cabinets. Good you do. I also hope for

1355
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:39,679
Speaker 1: them We'll save yours for the next episode. I'm sure

1356
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 1: there's plenty plenty to say, And in a letter to

1357
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: her mother, Martha said, oh, yes, he's brave when it

1358
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 1: comes to talk and hurting others. He can kill without

1359
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:53,439
Speaker 1: batting an eyelash. But to hurt himself, he'd never do it.

1360
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 1: It takes a man to kill himself, not a sniveling,

1361
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:01,799
Speaker 1: low down, double crossing rat like him. What a dare Meanwhile,

1362
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 1: Raymond is still writing to his wife in Spain and

1363
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 1: Carnacion and and his four children. On January nine fifty one,

1364
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: he wrote, kisses in hugs to the children. I don't

1365
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:21,639
Speaker 1: know why he's from, born in Hawaii whatever like Kisses

1366
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 1: and hugs to the children, and you receive a million

1367
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 1: kisses and hugs from the one who always will have

1368
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:31,799
Speaker 1: you until the last second of my life. She apparently

1369
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: knew about the other women, and presumably she knew that

1370
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 1: he was in prison given the return address, but she

1371
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:39,680
Speaker 1: wrote back, do you prefer me to fly to you

1372
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 1: and spank you for not writing, just as if you

1373
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: were a little child. Kisses from the children, all my

1374
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 1: love to you, your wife and Garna. What is a

1375
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:56,680
Speaker 1: put in? Carna? Like, girl, I don't get it. You

1376
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 1: are so naughty. I can't believe you didn't write to

1377
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: me after your murder trial. Kisses. So like he fled

1378
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 1: the country after killing someone in Spain. You don't think

1379
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 1: he said goodbye to her, right? I mean I don't

1380
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 1: after he showed up and was like, pretend to be

1381
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 1: my old friend wife, she had a I don't know

1382
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 1: if she had a very different idea of what was

1383
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 1: going on, or she just didn't understand how the world

1384
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 1: was supposed to work, or if she was absolute looney

1385
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 1: Tunes or yeah, if she was just kind of like

1386
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 1: Martha was like, Okay, whatever you need to do, I

1387
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:29,559
Speaker 1: don't really give a ship as long as I'm here

1388
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,280
Speaker 1: with the kids and I'm chilling. Oh, boys in their games,

1389
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:36,719
Speaker 1: you know, in their toys, boys in their mass murders

1390
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 1: and constant lies. You just can't keep up with them.

1391
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 1: You just gotta let them get it out of their system.

1392
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 1: Oh so, other execution date was set for March eighth.

1393
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:52,759
Speaker 1: Raymond got nervous about being able to hold up under pressure,

1394
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:55,600
Speaker 1: and as the hours drew near, the killer couple reconciled.

1395
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:59,160
Speaker 1: Martha even sent Raymond a poem according to this year,

1396
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 1: really killing her calend serial killer calendar. So it sounds

1397
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,559
Speaker 1: like we're about to head down to poetry Corner and

1398
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: we've got a reading today from Martha Beck to her

1399
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: lover Raymond Fernandez. A Memo to Ray by Martha Beck. Remember, Sweetheart,

1400
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 1: the night that you and I side by side, we're

1401
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 1: sitting watching over the moonlit sky, fleecy clouds were flitting

1402
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 1: how close our hands were linked? Then when, my darling,

1403
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 1: when will they be linked again? What to me the

1404
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: starlight still or the moonbeams splendor? If I do not

1405
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 1: feel the thrill of your fingers tender? Wow, I don't

1406
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 1: even know what to say about that poem. It's also

1407
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 1: like bad well yeah, it's like I mean, we can

1408
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 1: only assume it's her first poem. I don't know. So

1409
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: there's us, there's it's bad yet there's a sweetness to it.

1410
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 1: But it's a sweet, weird sweetness. Yeah, I don't know.

1411
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 1: If if, maybe, if you saw it completely without any

1412
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,720
Speaker 1: context about who wrote it and to whom they were

1413
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: writing it, you might be like, oh, that's cute. What

1414
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,840
Speaker 1: to me is the moonlight without you with me? That's

1415
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 1: very romantic? But knowing well we know it's weird. Ray

1416
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 1: was apparently moved to tears by this poem. He was

1417
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 1: truly touched, and he wrote back to her, I would

1418
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,360
Speaker 1: like to shout my love for you to the world.

1419
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 1: And then he also said, the news brought to me

1420
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 1: that Martha loves me is the best I've had in years. Now.

1421
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: I'm ready to die, so tonight I'll die like a man.

1422
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:48,719
Speaker 1: He wouldn't. Yeah, it was the practice of the time

1423
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:52,639
Speaker 1: to take the most distraught prisoners to the electric chair first.

1424
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 1: They don't want people freaking out or making the other

1425
01:18:55,600 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 1: prisoners right exactly like we don't want she agitated. Let's yeah,

1426
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,679
Speaker 1: it was a busy day for Sing Singh's electric chair.

1427
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 1: Before Raymond, two petty thieves were executed. They had killed

1428
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 1: a man in nineteen fifty during a bungled car theft,

1429
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 1: and the New York Daily News, in an article from

1430
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, said it was the queen's killer's

1431
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:20,479
Speaker 1: lousy luck to face fate alongside the widow whackers. What

1432
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:24,799
Speaker 1: which I thought, was like, that's twenty eleven. This sounds

1433
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:30,479
Speaker 1: like it was written in nineteen fifty one. And they

1434
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 1: also called Raymond and Martha a third rate Jiggelo and

1435
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:37,559
Speaker 1: his tubby Tutsie Wow said that so, yeah, not much

1436
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:40,680
Speaker 1: has changed since nineteen fifty. Should really do better. So

1437
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:44,479
Speaker 1: the thieves died first, and then Raymond, who did become

1438
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 1: panic stricken and he had to be carried to the chair. Martha, however,

1439
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:50,840
Speaker 1: walked to the chair of her own volition. She had

1440
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:53,840
Speaker 1: no tears. Her final statement to the press, what does

1441
01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:56,080
Speaker 1: it matter who is to blame? My story is a

1442
01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: love story, but only those tortured with love can understand

1443
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 1: what I mean. I was pictured as a fat, unfeeling woman.

1444
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 1: I am not unfeeling, stupid or maronic. In the history

1445
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:10,080
Speaker 1: of the world, how many crimes have been attributed to love,

1446
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 1: to which I'd like to quote my dear friend Detective

1447
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 1: Jake Peralta of Brooklyn Precinct. Cool motive, still murder, I'll

1448
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 1: tell you it's the same thing, though. When Martha sets

1449
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 1: her mind to something, she sees it through. She sees

1450
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:28,680
Speaker 1: it through. Raymond was buried at state expense in the

1451
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 1: prison cemetery at sing Sing. Martha's body was turned over

1452
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,800
Speaker 1: to relatives and she was buried in Florida. Now books

1453
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 1: have been written about them. Several movies have been made,

1454
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:42,759
Speaker 1: particularly The Honeymoon Killers. In fun fact, a young Madi

1455
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:45,760
Speaker 1: Scorsese was directing this film at first, but he was

1456
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 1: fired for working too slowly, wasting money and time, and

1457
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 1: apparently he was shooting nothing but master coverage with no

1458
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 1: close ups or anything, which made the film impossible to edit. Marty,

1459
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 1: what were you doing, I think he said? Later on,

1460
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, they should have fired me. When

1461
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 1: it came out, it was pretty critically acclaimed, especially for

1462
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: the performances and this sort of black and white sort

1463
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 1: of documentary style it was shot in, which made it

1464
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:14,400
Speaker 1: very realistic and left one critic mildly nauseated. In two

1465
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:16,960
Speaker 1: thousand and six, a movie came out called Lonely Hearts

1466
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:21,560
Speaker 1: based on The Killings, where the Spanish Hawaiian Raymond Fernandez

1467
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:28,720
Speaker 1: was played by Jared Letto and the fat, unattractive, obese

1468
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 1: ogress Martha Beck was played by Salma Hayek. Come on,

1469
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:38,280
Speaker 1: there are fat actresses out there who are great actresses

1470
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 1: and ready to work. I'll tell you what. There's also

1471
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 1: Spanish Hawaiian actors out there who are ready to work too.

1472
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 1: You don't needn't Jared. Let also save yourself, the trouble

1473
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:50,559
Speaker 1: of having to work with Jared Letton. Can I just

1474
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,760
Speaker 1: say that across the board for anyone casting anything, they

1475
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:55,719
Speaker 1: were like, we need to think of someone like super

1476
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,840
Speaker 1: into himself. Oh I got it, I got it. I

1477
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 1: know the person. So Martha should have listened to meet Loaf.

1478
01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 1: I'll do anything for love, but I won't do that.

1479
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:09,360
Speaker 1: Oh man, I mean she was you know, she'd been

1480
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 1: through it up. But I'm not gonna sit here and

1481
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:15,720
Speaker 1: try to justify her because the murders, they're really just

1482
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 1: heinous murderers. You're bad people that some people are treated

1483
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 1: very poorly throughout their whole lives and don't murder anyone.

1484
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:24,840
Speaker 1: So not not going to throw out a bunch of

1485
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 1: sympathy here. Cool motives still murder exactly. Well, that was

1486
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: a great story. You guys know what to do. Let

1487
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 1: us know what you thought. Yeah, I first let thirsty

1488
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 1: murder story. Yeah, we're romance at I heart media dot Com.

1489
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 1: We love hearing from you. It's very exciting, So thank you,

1490
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 1: so exciting. We love it. You can get us on

1491
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 1: the socials. I'm at O grade. It's Eli on Twitter

1492
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:50,840
Speaker 1: and Instagram. I'm at Dianamite Boom also on Instagram and Twitter,

1493
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:54,439
Speaker 1: and we're both at ridic romance on those platforms, so

1494
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 1: feel free to splot into the d M anytime. Come

1495
01:22:57,640 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 1: say hey, thank you so much for listening to this

1496
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:03,879
Speaker 1: crazy epple so we'll see you next time. So on, friends,

1497
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 1: it's time to go. Thanks for listening to our show.

1498
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 1: Tell your friends neighbor's uncle s indance to listen to

1499
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 1: a show Ridiculous well Dance