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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I never told you, protective, I

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Speaker 2: hurtried you, And today we are going to be talking

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Speaker 2: about something we teased in our recent episode on women

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Speaker 2: and jury duty, which is Samantha and I's experiences in

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Speaker 2: court in my primarily my experience recently serving jury duty,

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Speaker 2: which we didn't get to go into, which was why

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Speaker 2: I was gone for five.

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Speaker 1: Days, abandoned me for so long?

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Speaker 2: Did it was a panic when I got chosen?

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: All panic for different reasons.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not going to go too much into the

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Speaker 2: details of the case. I'm just going to kind of

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Speaker 2: talk about my experience as a juror. But that being said,

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Speaker 2: it was murder trial, right, I'm not going to get

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Speaker 2: into that much detail, but I will be talking a

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Speaker 2: little bit about how that impacted me.

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Speaker 4: Yes, although I think it is it's good to note

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Speaker 4: because one of the things that you should let them

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Speaker 4: know is about the timeline. So I think people get

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Speaker 4: shocked about the fact that it takes so long for

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Speaker 4: the process and why people may like never hear anything

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Speaker 4: for three or four years. And then also with that,

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Speaker 4: like why witnesses have issues and trying to restate the

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Speaker 4: same things. Because time makes differences.

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Speaker 2: It does, it does. So speaking of before I forget, Yes,

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Speaker 2: this was a trial. This was a case from twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: It had on to trial previously, and it was a mistrial.

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Speaker 2: It was a hung jury and we could see what

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Speaker 2: they decided, which was really interesting and I'll talk about

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Speaker 2: it more, but there was a pretty stark divide of

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Speaker 2: like there were five charges and there were some people

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Speaker 2: who were very much guilty on all and there were

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Speaker 2: some people who were not guilty at all. But anyway, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it happened in twenty nineteen, it went to trial, there

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Speaker 2: was hungury, so it was coming back, but the state

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Speaker 2: brought that up of the like, I'm sorry it took

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Speaker 2: so long because you know, the families are in there

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Speaker 2: and there was a lot of emotion running pretty high,

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Speaker 2: and it was pretty shocking that it was from twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen and here we are deciding it now. But also, yeah,

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Speaker 2: going to your point, because you have experience testifying, there

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Speaker 2: were witnesses, some of whom I believe you've testified at

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Speaker 2: the previous time, who were called into question because they

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Speaker 2: couldn't remember the exact specifics of the case or whatever

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Speaker 2: they had to do with the involvement, And sometimes it

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Speaker 2: would be like, do you need to look at your report,

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Speaker 2: one of the lawyers would say, And it just because

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Speaker 2: that does you know, the jurors are meant to judge

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Speaker 2: how credible a witnesses, right, But yeah, I mean, of course,

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Speaker 2: like I, I wouldn't know if that was if I

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Speaker 2: didn't have my report in front of me, and it is.

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Speaker 2: It's scary. I got scared in the process of being

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Speaker 2: interviewed as a juror, and I flubbed an answer, I

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Speaker 2: flubbed questions. So I can only imagine if you're getting

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Speaker 2: called in and you're getting these questions from two lawyers

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Speaker 2: who are trying to use you in one way or

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Speaker 2: another to prove either side or whatever they're going through.

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Speaker 4: Right. Well, and also, just as you were telling me earlier,

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Speaker 4: he was also released at that point on under house arrest.

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Speaker 2: Right I think so, yeah.

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Speaker 4: So he must have been able to make bell, which

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Speaker 4: is unusual for that type of those types of charges.

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Speaker 4: So I'm kind of interested in how he was able

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Speaker 4: to plead that every now and again, circumstantially you can

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Speaker 4: house arrest is different from different people. So this is yeah,

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Speaker 4: like the things I know. I've never been on a jewelry.

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Speaker 4: I've been called in a couple of times. One time

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Speaker 4: I was able to get out because my home address

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Speaker 4: was still my parents address because I was too transient

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Speaker 4: where I would move around too much, and I felt

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Speaker 4: like that would be better. And then I had to

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Speaker 4: go to there and be like, I don't actually live here,

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Speaker 4: that's and they're like, uh, you need to change your address.

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Speaker 4: It's like fair enough, fair enough.

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Speaker 5: My bad.

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Speaker 4: And then another time I just called in and they

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Speaker 4: didn't need me. And I've always like you and I

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Speaker 4: talked about last time. I was like, I doubt I'll

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Speaker 4: ever be on a jury just because I worked with

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Speaker 4: the state, so I often did court cases and helped

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Speaker 4: represent the state in whatever conversations we had, whether it

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Speaker 4: was for the Department of Family and Children's Services or

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Speaker 4: whether it's for Department of Juneral Justice, and the Department

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Speaker 4: of Juvenal Justice works with kids youths who are offenders,

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Speaker 4: so they have broken the law so that they don't

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Speaker 4: quite go to jail necessarily, but they do go through

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Speaker 4: similar processes. It's never a jury trial because obviously they

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Speaker 4: can't have because deciding a factor about a case, but

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Speaker 4: I would oftentimes be the one coming in. I had

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Speaker 4: to do paperwork for petitions for all these different things,

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Speaker 4: whether it's to put them on house arrest or whether

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Speaker 4: it's to lock them up, or whether it's to release

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Speaker 4: them or I get the treatment for them. So I

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Speaker 4: had to do a lot of petitions and go in

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Speaker 4: front of judges and it is really really nerve wracking.

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Speaker 4: Even though you might just be in front of like

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Speaker 4: ten people, it still feels like a battle. And of

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Speaker 4: course for me could be at personalities any that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, performance anxiety in general. So that's that was

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Speaker 4: the thing. But also because I feel like it was

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Speaker 4: a heavy responsibility because these are the people's lives, whether

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Speaker 4: they're youth or adults, and you need to respect both

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Speaker 4: the victims the Hindu for perpetrators like you, they are

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Speaker 4: human beings, and I often had cases where I kind

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Speaker 4: of went against the state trying to do better for

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Speaker 4: the people because there would be extenuating circumstances that we

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Speaker 4: might not know, and.

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Speaker 1: Also because justice system is.

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Speaker 4: Not as unbiased as they would like to claim, as

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Speaker 4: we've seen repeatedly.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot sub to that.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, like him being on house arrests for those

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Speaker 4: extensive charges including murder not necessarily like aggravated or like that,

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Speaker 4: but still is like, wow, he was able to go home.

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Speaker 4: Usually they hold them no matter what, even if they do.

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Speaker 4: Maybe the hung jury was the difference because I don't know,

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Speaker 4: but if it was an extensive, like harsh enough charge,

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Speaker 4: typically they will Again murder will't necessarily release you like that.

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Speaker 4: Now house of rest is different, y'all. I could go

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Speaker 4: into the whole conversation about monitoring and what that looks

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Speaker 4: like in the GPS system and the private companies that

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Speaker 4: the state hires on how much money they make in

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Speaker 4: these really not great systems.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, easyed a fool.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, Well to clarify, as I mentioned in our

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Speaker 2: Women and Jury Duty episode, there are the opening arguments

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Speaker 2: in this specific case, but I think in general, in

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Speaker 2: cases like this, it starts with the state because the

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Speaker 2: burden of proof is on the state. In the state

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Speaker 2: in this case was of course representing the person who

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Speaker 2: I died, and then they argue, and then the defense

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Speaker 2: comes out and argues, and then their closing arguments are

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Speaker 2: The state goes first. The defense has a rebuttal, and

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Speaker 2: then the state gets to go again and we were

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Speaker 2: told very clearly whatever they say is not necessarily true.

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Speaker 2: And then after we rendered our verdict, they were victim

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Speaker 2: impact statements. And the victim impact statements is when one

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Speaker 2: of the family members of the person who had been

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Speaker 2: murdered said, he's been on house arrest this whole time.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know, that's just.

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Speaker 1: Okay where I'm that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I but I don't know if it's true.

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Speaker 2: I just know what she said. Right.

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Speaker 4: To be fair, it may have absolutely everything to be

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Speaker 4: with the due to the fact that they are overpopulated,

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Speaker 4: and so certain people will be released based on that

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Speaker 4: due to the level of violence, the level of violence

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Speaker 4: within being arrested or being threatened within a secured place.

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Speaker 4: So you never know if it was a judge's choice,

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Speaker 4: I mean, they still had to approve it, but like

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Speaker 4: he could have been released on a monitor house arrest

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Speaker 4: based on the fact that the jail was overpopulated at

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Speaker 4: the time and he was less risk than any of

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Speaker 4: the others detained.

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Speaker 1: Which I don't know. There's a lot of drug.

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Speaker 4: Charges that happened in jailed and fined, and they.

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Speaker 1: Seem like they would be less risk than their murder charge. Whatever. Again,

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: We had a lot of questions as a jury about

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Speaker 2: many things, but in terms of like, oh wow, that

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Speaker 2: that calls for that amount of time served and that

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Speaker 2: is that okay? Interesting? But also we found out a

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Speaker 2: lot of things after we gave the verdict and the

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Speaker 2: lawyers can come talk to you. The defendant in his

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Speaker 2: family had received a lot, lot a lot of death threats,

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Speaker 2: so I don't know if that had anything to do

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Speaker 2: with it either. But anyway, okay, I want I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to break down the whole thing. I bet, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to keep it pretty short. So I actually have

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Speaker 2: a lot of friends who've never been summoned for Jerry

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Speaker 2: j D kind of blows my mind. You get a

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Speaker 2: summons in the mail. It gives you time and place

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Speaker 2: to show up, which, yes, you will get in trouble

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Speaker 2: if you do not. You can defer it. There's a

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Speaker 2: couple of like I'm a full time student and a

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Speaker 2: full time caregiver. There's a couple things like that that

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Speaker 2: you can just get out of it. But you can

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Speaker 2: defer it just for like this is not a good time,

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Speaker 2: which is what I did, because we were going to Seattle.

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Speaker 2: But I deferred it foolishly. I didn't choose a date,

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Speaker 2: which you could choose a date. I was just like whenever,

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Speaker 2: and I immediately when I.

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Speaker 1: Got back, well I guess whenever.

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Speaker 2: They were like, you're coming in now. So you go in,

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Speaker 2: and at least in the one in Fulllton County where

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Speaker 2: I am, which Fulton County is huge. They kind of

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Speaker 2: they they put you in this huge waiting room. They

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Speaker 2: show you videos about how your jury duty service works,

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Speaker 2: which is really funny to me because some of them

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Speaker 2: are like how to answer the summons, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: we're already here, so okay. But then you're assigned a

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Speaker 2: number and they call your number. Well not always because

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Speaker 2: the night before, like you said, you call and sometimes

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Speaker 2: they don't even need you. But if you've gotten to

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Speaker 2: the court, if they call your name, they assign you

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Speaker 2: a number. And this is because if you do get chosen,

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Speaker 2: it's for your protection essentially, so they don't know your name.

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Speaker 2: And I'm very glad I wrote down my number because

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Speaker 2: I was extremely extremely confident I would not get chosen.

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Speaker 3: So but then you.

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Speaker 2: Get a number, you go to the court, and that's

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Speaker 2: when you do varder, which is the case I was in,

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Speaker 2: was pretty large. The previous time I made it to

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Speaker 2: that section it was much smaller, but this is pretty large.

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Speaker 2: So they broke us into three groups and they bring

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Speaker 2: you in and then they interview you. Then they have

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Speaker 2: basic questions like have you ever been the victim of

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Speaker 2: violent crime? Things like that, and then they have specifics.

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Speaker 2: So for me, I did get asked about the podcasting,

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Speaker 2: and this is when I got really nervous and like

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Speaker 2: flubbed my answers because I was just like, so, oh,

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Speaker 2: my gosh, I don't know. But I did say it's

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Speaker 2: a feminist podcast and I was proud of that, So

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Speaker 2: you do that. And then I was in the middle group,

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Speaker 2: which was like the worst timing because I had to

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Speaker 2: wait for all the other groups to happen. Then they

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Speaker 2: bring you back in and they announced who the jurors are.

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Speaker 2: Mine was twelve plus two alternates that you don't know

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Speaker 2: who the two alternates are, and my god, gold, I

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Speaker 2: was shocked. I was in complete shock. And then they

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Speaker 2: dismiss everyone else and then they give you the overview

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Speaker 2: of what the next in this case, few days are

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Speaker 2: going to look like what it requires, and you have

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Speaker 2: to remember your number because that's how you're gonna like

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Speaker 2: do your notes, which, as I said, you have to

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Speaker 2: take notes, or you really should because they don't give

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Speaker 2: you transcripts with anything. And yeah, I was in a

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Speaker 2: little bit of shock, went home panicked. We were trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out what we're gonna do. Right on sav

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Speaker 2: we were trying to figure out what we're gonna do. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but so it's nine to five. It was nine to

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Speaker 2: five for about five days, and which is the worst

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Speaker 2: traffic time, as you can imagine. You have to go,

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Speaker 2: you go through security, all of that, and I sat

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Speaker 2: in and the first day was primarily like a lot

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Speaker 2: of evidence being presented, and then the second day was

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Speaker 2: more witnesses and then we deliberated for about seven hours

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Speaker 2: and we did arrive at a verdict. And deliberation is

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Speaker 2: the part I was most worried about, because I was

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Speaker 2: just really concerned. I did feel a responsibility, and I

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Speaker 2: was worried that I'd have to be like the squeaky wheel.

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Speaker 2: It's like, no, I don't agree, or I don't I

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Speaker 2: don't think that's what's up. So we rendered a verdict.

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Speaker 2: It did take us all. We went back and forth,

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Speaker 2: and then there was the option for people to leave.

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Speaker 2: At this point I did not leave because I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to see it through. This is when the victim

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Speaker 2: impacts happened, which should kind of to I guess sway

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Speaker 2: the judge perhaps and how much, and the sentencing and

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Speaker 2: then the sentencing happens, and then it was mostly over.

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Speaker 2: But it was clear the defense planning on appealing it.

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Speaker 2: I think, although the state lawyer told us that some

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Speaker 2: of the charges they went with because we proposed different charges,

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Speaker 2: and she said she knew they would have been appealed

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Speaker 2: if they had gone with those charges, and so they

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Speaker 2: chose ones they thought wouldn't be likely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Because after we gave the verdict, the judge came

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Speaker 2: and talked to us and was just like talking it

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Speaker 2: out with us and like what he thought. He wanted

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Speaker 2: to know what we thought. And then the lawyer came

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Speaker 2: in and we did the same thing, and that's when

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Speaker 2: we learned some of the other details of the case

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Speaker 2: that we didn't know because it couldn't be entered into evidence. Also,

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Speaker 2: during this whole time, you can't talk about it, which

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Speaker 2: you know you want to desperately because you're like, I

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Speaker 2: say something like this where it was very ah, I

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Speaker 2: had like a lot of upset happening, But also it

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Speaker 2: was just it wasn't clear cut, and I know most

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Speaker 2: cases probably aren't, but it wasn't clear cut, and it's

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Speaker 2: like you want to talk to your friends about it

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Speaker 2: and like what do you think? But you can't talk

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Speaker 2: about it until after. So that was that I wanted

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Speaker 2: to just run through some brief thoughts I had during this.

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Speaker 2: I was incredibly anxious. I was really anxious the whole time.

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Speaker 2: There was really intense evidence, and the families are there,

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Speaker 2: and so it was it was like not a good

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Speaker 2: time for like my body. But when yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: you're in the courtroom for like five hours at a time.

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Speaker 2: You have like a nine to twelve, then a little

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Speaker 2: twelve to one break, and then four hours, and so

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Speaker 2: I had like worries about coffeeing and stomach rumblings and

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Speaker 2: all of those things. But oh gosh, Yeah. And I

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Speaker 2: would say there was somebody on in my interview group

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Speaker 2: who said he had been a victim of a gun

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Speaker 2: crime and was like, I have sometimes I'd dissociate. I

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Speaker 2: have these moments all of this and he got chosen

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Speaker 2: and I ended up like talking to him a lot

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Speaker 2: because I also felt kind of felt silly because I

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Speaker 2: felt like no one else was being affected like I was,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, am I just a big baby?

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Speaker 2: But he know. We had some good talks yeah about it,

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Speaker 2: and a lot. This was a big kind of part

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Speaker 2: of the centerpiece of this was questions around self defense

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Speaker 2: and gun violence in general. And I have to say,

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Speaker 2: after the first day, I was just like, no one

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Speaker 2: should have guns. That was like my take. But they

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Speaker 2: asked a lot of questions about gun ownership and viewing

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Speaker 2: your views on guns. And I have to tell you,

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Speaker 2: so many men took this time during the interview process

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Speaker 2: to tell us about how many guns they had. Now

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Speaker 2: great it was and all of this, and I was

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Speaker 2: just like wow, wow, you op Okay. There was a

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Speaker 2: lot of like really played out stereotypes that happened. The table,

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Speaker 2: like our juror table split like women were on one

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Speaker 2: side and men were on the other, and we just

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Speaker 2: did that naturally, like it wasn't And the men, I

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Speaker 2: Am not kidding, We're talking about football and grilling and guns,

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Speaker 2: and the women were trying to work and like take

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Speaker 2: care of childcare stuff like, it was just a really

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Speaker 2: stark difference. I spoke about some comments I heard from

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Speaker 2: men about judging the women's the witnesses or experts that

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Speaker 2: were brought in and their appearances, so that was very

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Speaker 2: much there. They did try to argue at one point

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Speaker 2: like men will be men and that's why he did it,

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Speaker 2: and all of the women were like, no, not an offense,

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Speaker 2: not an efense. No. And I was worried about voicing

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Speaker 2: my opinion and all of that, but I will tell you,

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Speaker 2: in this case, I saw the benefits very clearly of

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Speaker 2: having women and women of all different backgrounds, because they

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Speaker 2: were the ones that were really voicing what they thought

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Speaker 2: and were very passionate, and they were on opposite sides,

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Speaker 2: and I thought that was really good actually because it

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Speaker 2: helped me kind of work through this. But there they

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Speaker 2: were really caring about what this would do, and I

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Speaker 2: was happy to see it. It did get heated, there

329
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Speaker 2: was some yelling, but I was glad. Oh my gosh,

330
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Speaker 2: people were mad. The main piece of evidence was a

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Speaker 2: surveillance video. We had like eleven angles of the surveillance video,

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Speaker 2: but we were watching it frame by frame, and people

333
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Speaker 2: were like arguing about what's happening here and what's happened here.

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Speaker 2: It just happened so fast. It was a very quick

335
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Speaker 2: quick thing. Another thing that happened. You get the jurors

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Speaker 2: choose a foreman, and that's somebody who kind of just

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Speaker 2: keeps track of what people are thinking, and they are

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Speaker 2: the person that reads the like we the jury find whatever.

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Speaker 2: And he was really good. At first. I didn't think

340
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Speaker 2: i'd like him. If you're listening, sorry, but at first

341
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Speaker 2: I didn't think i'd like him. But he was really

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Speaker 2: good at like checking in on are you feeling overwhelmed?

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Speaker 2: There was somebody else in the jury who had like

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Speaker 2: an auditory overwhelm kind of thing that would happen, and

345
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Speaker 2: if we were all yelling like we would take a break.

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Speaker 2: And so he was really good at checking in on

347
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Speaker 2: all of that stuff. I would also say it was

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Speaker 2: almost all women on either side of the families that

349
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Speaker 2: showed up for the case. It was almost all women,

350
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Speaker 2: and they were the ones giving the personal impact statements

351
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Speaker 2: at the end. Something else that I'm really still grappling

352
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Speaker 2: with is that I didn't answer yes to the have

353
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Speaker 2: you been the victim of a violent crime? And I

354
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 2: should have. And the fact is, because I knew it

355
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Speaker 2: was a gun violence case at this point, I was

356
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Speaker 2: thinking of it like that and I wasn't thinking about

357
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Speaker 2: sexual assault, but I should have. And in fact, afterwards

358
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Speaker 2: I looked up with that count and it's a shame

359
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 2: and terrible to me that I had to look up

360
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: what that of counted. But that's something I'm going to

361
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: have to really work on. And then, of course, as

362
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,719
Speaker 2: we talked about in our Women in Jury Duty episode,

363
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Speaker 2: just the systemic issues of taking time off from your job,

364
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 2: like pay and travel and childcare and all of that,

365
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 2: and hearing the women on the Jury Duty mostly talking

366
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Speaker 2: about like, I don't know how I'm gonna I gotta

367
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Speaker 2: get kids, I gotta do this, I gotta do this

368
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Speaker 2: because it is sudden, like you don't expect you're going

369
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Speaker 2: to get your right.

370
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Speaker 4: Well, also, you only had like a week right to

371
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Speaker 4: really try to figure out, Oh, okay, next week, I

372
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Speaker 4: have to do this. It's not like that quick. Well,

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Speaker 4: I mean I always thought that long. You don't have

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Speaker 4: like a three month planet ahead.

375
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Speaker 2: No, I went in that day thinking I'd be home

376
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Speaker 2: that day, right, that was I don't know.

377
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Speaker 4: You were pretty like ominous the way you were acting

378
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 4: seemed like you already thought you may be picked. The

379
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Speaker 4: way you were like, so may have Joey duty, cross

380
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Speaker 4: your fingers, and then we're both like hmm. And then

381
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Speaker 4: as you were like I'm here, I'm like, oh, do

382
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Speaker 4: you think you're like, no, I think I might be picked.

383
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Speaker 1: No, I think I might be picked. As you were

384
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Speaker 1: like going throughout, like you kind.

385
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Speaker 4: Of hinted that you kind of weren't thinking that you

386
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Speaker 4: probably would, it seemed.

387
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Speaker 2: I know I was because the first round of interviews

388
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Speaker 2: where they just kind of are like raised yes or no,

389
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 2: eraise your your number, I didn't raise it once, and

390
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, oh oh, And then I was

391
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Speaker 2: like maybe not because they had so many questions about

392
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Speaker 2: the true crime.

393
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, but then nope, you got got it.

394
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 2: But you know, overall I did have.

395
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Speaker 3: It.

396
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: Would you classify as this is a ten to ten

397
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: experience or.

398
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: I am still recovering? It was a lot. I it

399
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: was a lot, But I did have like a good

400
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: experience with the jury. The fore men was really good.

401
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: I liked that the at the end, like the judge

402
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 2: came and talked to us, and the lawyer came to

403
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 2: talk to us, I thought that was cool. I liked

404
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 2: seeing these women be so outspoken and passionate about it.

405
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's normally the case on juries.

406
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: I just know that this my experience, this was I

407
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: liked that people seem to really care about it, because

408
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: I also thought, you know, you're not allowed to talk

409
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: about it, even with your fellow jurors. So I had

410
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: no idea like if I was going to get in

411
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 2: and be the only one that was like, well, I

412
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: don't know about that, right, But people were really passionate

413
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: about it. The women were lawyers, the lawyers in this case, uh.

414
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 2: And I did learn a lot. I know, it's kind

415
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 2: of Lauren made fun of me when I said that.

416
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: She's like, that is the most house stuff works answer

417
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: I have ever heard.

418
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Speaker 4: But when we found out you were chosen to be

419
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Speaker 4: enjoy you were like, well, like, that's an episode.

420
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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the way we think it is.

421
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: It is. But I learned about like medical examiners and

422
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 2: forensic and cell phone data, which, by the way, he

423
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: was so excited someone was asking him about cell phone data.

424
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: I learned about all kinds of things, and yes, it

425
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 2: was inconvenient and traumatic, but I am glad that we

426
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 2: took it seriously and we did come to an agreement.

427
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 2: And you know, at the beginning, it didn't seem like

428
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: we would because people were so all over the place

429
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: and you have to read They give you the laws

430
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: to read of what applies to these charges, and you're

431
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: trying to sit there and make sense of these like

432
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 2: legalese terms.

433
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 4: Right, they're trying to teach you law like your lawyer

434
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 4: within love, because like that's part of the problem in

435
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 4: any kind of jury case, you know. And I know

436
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 4: y'all remember from high school and we all had our

437
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 4: you know, jury type of thing where we all had

438
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 4: to protendre or whatever whatnot. And I was for me,

439
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 4: I was one of the lawyers, and it was about

440
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 4: like brutus and the murder of Caesar and all of that.

441
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 4: But like I remember, my whole defense with the case

442
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 4: was that yes, he we are not denying that he

443
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 4: murdered this person, but what we're saying is he did

444
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 4: it for the good of the country, and it wasn't

445
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 4: malicious murder, but it was for in defense. So like

446
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 4: this is not all these things, and none of the

447
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 4: kids understood it, and they would not hear because like, no,

448
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 4: you admitted it. He killed some merriers, But that's not

449
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 4: the point. The point is what type is this? This

450
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 4: is justified? Is this in self defense? Is this a

451
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 4: justified murder? Blah blah blah. What do we need to

452
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 4: look like? Like all these things, And my teacher was

453
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 4: actually really really impressed because.

454
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: She was like that actually would have could have worked.

455
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: And you, you know, in the the lawyer because you're

456
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 4: thinking analytically instead of just like black and white. But

457
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 4: because laws are like that, people don't know, especially when

458
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 4: they have different charges and what they're trying to get

459
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 4: you to know and versus what is being charged, Like yeah,

460
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 4: sure we know he killed them, but you need to

461
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 4: figure out.

462
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: Is this self defense? Who shot first? Like who?

463
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 4: What was the intent or no intent? Like all of

464
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 4: these things timing and then telling you it doesn't matter

465
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 4: if he had like thought about it or didn't think

466
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 4: about it, and it was whatever it could be intent

467
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 4: because he thought about it right before he shot him.

468
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 4: Like all of those things that you were telling me,

469
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, those are things that we wouldn't know

470
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 4: as a layperson. So they have to teach you law

471
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 4: in order to try to teach you how to vote

472
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 4: about this person's wye, which is crazy.

473
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: It was because there was the one that we ended

474
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: up charging finding him guilty on. It was two, but

475
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: the main one. I'd never in a million years would

476
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: have said that. But then when we were reading the law,

477
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, yeah, and it's very it's hard

478
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: to like go of the thought that, like, because they

479
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: kept telling us premeditation doesn't count, intent doesn't count. Oh, no,

480
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: intent counts, but didn't count for like one second, like

481
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 2: one second, one second, So it's not like the premeditation,

482
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: I guess is the thing because you always think like, oh,

483
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: they were thinking about it, but uh right, yeah, I

484
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: learned a lot.

485
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 4: But he also like he denied a plea, which took

486
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 4: things off the table. Yeah, so you couldn't give him

487
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 4: a lesser time for some things because he said, no,

488
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 4: I'm not guilty of any of this, so instead of

489
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 4: which kind of is a trickery that is done by

490
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 4: the prosecution sometimes not all the time, but sometimes where

491
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 4: it becomes a whole thing where they're like, you sign

492
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 4: this agreement without knowing what you signed, but you signed

493
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 4: it and we're going to use this against you, So

494
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 4: why don't you just take this plea and go with

495
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 4: this type of thing, and then they get harassed and

496
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: pushed into doing taking a plea deal even though they're like,

497
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 4: but I didn't do this, like nolo contendo contender, that's

498
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 4: all that. It's like, yeah, I must say I did it,

499
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 4: but I didn't do it, but I I'd rather not

500
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 4: go to the process and go possibly get prosecuted for

501
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 4: the worst thing.

502
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

503
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: So another thing that happens is if you have questions

504
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: while you're deliberating, they bring you out, you submit them

505
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 2: via paper to the judge. They bring you out to

506
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 2: the whole everybody's waiting out there. You sit back in

507
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: your jury box and they answer the questions there. So

508
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: they knew we were thinking about, like can we give

509
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: a lesser charge? Can we do this? Can we do this?

510
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: So everyone knew like what we were thinking and it

511
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: was apparently turned down. And as I mentioned in the

512
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: Women in Jury Duty, we got polled, which is just

513
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: when one of the lawyers in this case, it was

514
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: the defense goes through goes to every jar and asks

515
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: like did you arrive at this? You stand by it,

516
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: like all of that stuff to see if somebody up

517
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: a jur felt pressured and actually didn't agree, and we

518
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: had somebody who was like, nobody better pull some kind

519
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 2: of surprises. I didn't even know that that was that

520
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: was the thing, But afterwards I think I think they

521
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: were joking back. I'm she said something because I didn't know. Well,

522
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: I think we would have kept talking.

523
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, But anyway.

524
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: I didn't know. There's a thing in Georgia called the

525
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: enlightened the enlightened conscience of the jury, which is almost

526
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: kind of the opposite of what you were talking about,

527
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: which is when a jury it's like, none of these

528
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: charges fit, but they should do time. So if we're

529
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: not going to get those other things, which apparently is

530
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: a real thing I hadn't heard about on it, we

531
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: did agree, if again, if anyone's listening, we did agree

532
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 2: with what we arrived at. But I looked that up

533
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: afterwards too, because I was like, what is that.

534
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things.

535
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: It was a really high it was the sentence was severe,

536
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 2: it was and it was like and it sucked because

537
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: it was a murder trial. It was a murder trial.

538
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: So we like we knew, no one's going to be

539
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: happy about this. No one's happy business.

540
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 4: It's interesting when you look at the different types of

541
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 4: charges that people go and this is why those charges

542
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 4: are really really important in what's petitioned because it does

543
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 4: make a huge difference. And we're talking about aggravated versus

544
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 4: felony like just single manslaughter like all of that.

545
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: Those are very important charges.

546
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 4: I was talking about for juveniles their felony levels, and

547
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 4: it's like the Seven Deadly Sins type of thing where

548
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: they can be called a designated felon. So they do

549
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 4: an adult type of charge, but they're not charged as

550
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 4: an adult yet, but they know they need a longer

551
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 4: time than just being on probation for two years, like

552
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 4: there's like, oh no, they have to start up at

553
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 4: least I want to say, seven years, or until their

554
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 4: eighteenth birthday or until their seventeen eighteenth birthday. So according

555
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 4: to what kind, if it is severe enough and they

556
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 4: are charged as an adult, they most likely if they're

557
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 4: younger than fourteen fifteen and their stature council a lot

558
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 4: so they're small, they will be placed in the juvenile

559
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 4: facility for a certain amount of times and then they

560
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 4: will get transferred to adults to serve the rest of

561
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 4: the time out but a lot of the times, like

562
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 4: the designate felon, and this is a Georgia thing. Every

563
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 4: state is very very very very very different. This designated felling,

564
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 4: which doesn't completely make sense to me, is specific to

565
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 4: the state of Georgia. But it's all those big laws again,

566
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 4: less rape, aggravated rape, murder, aggravated robbery that means there's

567
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 4: a gun involved. All of those things are very big,

568
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 4: big deals. Four years is four years that they have

569
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 4: to serve, and they are, but they're still technically a

570
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 4: juvenile and they unless again they are. They think it's

571
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 4: at age of fourteen? Is at twelve or fourteen in

572
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 4: the state of Georgia, I can't remember. They can be

573
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 4: charged as an adult. That's a whole different conversation. I've

574
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 4: had kids who are seventeen that they don't realize they're

575
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 4: in that weird era that they're technically an adult. So

576
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 4: anything that's a felony, you're gone. You're out of the

577
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 4: juvenile system and you're now completely into the adult system.

578
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: And i've kids not realizing that being told that there

579
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 4: were kids taking a gun with them when someone else

580
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 4: was being robbed. They were just there with a gun.

581
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 4: Bad y'all bad. So don't get me wrong, I'm not.

582
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 4: I'm not excusing any kids.

583
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm not.

584
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 4: But they don't understand the gravity because they really think

585
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 4: that they're still a part of the general system. And

586
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 4: then they get that charge at a very robbery and

587
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 4: it takes twenty it can be twenty years to twenty

588
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 4: five years of their life and they don't realize that,

589
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 4: and you're like, oh, you done that. One mistake was

590
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 4: a big mistake.

591
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 2: It's huge, it is it is, and that was you know,

592
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 2: it was difficult because the victim impact samans they were

593
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: looking at us a lot of times and you're like, wow,

594
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: it should have been more than The other side, of course,

595
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: is like it should have been less.

596
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 4: So the conversation of justice, no one feels like there's

597
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 4: been justice. I think, especially when there's a life loss.

598
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 4: There's no such thing. There's no such thing as justice,

599
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 4: and people have different understands in variation. And then again,

600
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 4: if if somehow they were influenced by their family to

601
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 4: live that life, it's hard to see that as well.

602
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: It is and you have to to be clear, like

603
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 2: you have to make these decisions based on the evidence.

604
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 2: So even if you have your like personal Oh, I

605
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: think this is what happened, or I think you have

606
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: to do it based on the evidence what you're supposed

607
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: to you're supposed to, and so that that's my point

608
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 2: is I feel I don't feel good about what happened,

609
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 2: but I see I feel I feel good about like

610
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 2: we did talk through this and came it. But the previous.

611
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 4: Made the best decision you could on the things that

612
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 4: that was presented to you, what you were told.

613
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 2: Yes, but the previous jury. I don't think this is

614
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: a surprise to anyone, but juries are notoriously fallible. But

615
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: the previous jury, the one person that made it a

616
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 2: hung jury said I just want to know why, And

617
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: so the state lawyer and are started her opening argument

618
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: with I can't tell you why for us, but wanting that,

619
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: like we said, you're not supposed to think about like

620
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: the motive and all that unless it's like you're trying

621
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: to prove some kind of like.

622
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 4: This was a murder based on like a spousehal killing.

623
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 4: That is absolutely absolutely important.

624
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: It was just kind of comical. I mean, it was

625
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: interesting to see how different that jury went.

626
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 4: It sounds like that one person had too much empathy,

627
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 4: like he really needed to understand how human life could

628
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 4: be so easily lost. And it's not funny. I'm not

629
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 4: again like seeing the things that I've seen, the systems

630
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 4: that I've been a part of, the things that we've

631
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 4: had to talk about in order to like really make

632
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 4: it out alive, like as little trauma as possible, and

633
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 4: we got a lot of trauma off. But like what

634
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: comes down to is they are not going beyond that

635
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 4: moment and they didn't if they don't know if they

636
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 4: had known the results, would they would it react that?

637
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: Would they have reacted the same? We don't know.

638
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 4: But they don't come in oftentimes with this ideal that

639
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: I'm going to do this or this is going to happen.

640
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 4: Like there's no real depth of future repercussions. They don't

641
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 4: understand future repercussions. And especially when we talk about teenagers

642
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 4: and kids, that's one of the big conversations we continually

643
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 4: have to have and why when we have conversations about

644
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 4: like heay, your brain's not really fully developed until twenty

645
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 4: five and even until then, if you're impulsive, if you

646
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 4: have ADHD, if you have a nature of pleasure like

647
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 4: trying to get what you want, immediately. It's really hard

648
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 4: for them to find a way to detach again their

649
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 4: response accountability versus their actions.

650
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was not excusing crime. You can't. You can't.

651
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 4: There's no way that you can that that woman wanting

652
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 4: to know the why.

653
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: That's really especially in a crime like that.

654
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: Two seconds.

655
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, then this, like in this kind of situation, everything

656
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 4: was stacked against both of them in that they allowed

657
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 4: some build up, like society is apart, Like there's such

658
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 4: a it's such a big conversation and I'm going this

659
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 4: far because I'm like, no, I know what this woman

660
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 4: is thinking, Like I know what she really wants. She

661
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 4: wants to stay in her bubble and trying to figure

662
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 4: out how human life could just be so easily expendable

663
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 4: and it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be, but like try to.

664
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:36,959
Speaker 1: Figure that out.

665
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 4: Like she needed to know that motive, just to know

666
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 4: if this person was evil, Like she wanted to base

667
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 4: it on whether or not this person was evil.

668
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, She's not always clear cut.

669
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 2: No, not at all, not at all. And I will admit,

670
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: like when we were doing our women in Jury duty

671
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 2: and we had all those quotes about like why they

672
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: were trying to keep women off Jerry's. One of them

673
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 2: was they're too empathetic, and I was really empathy. I

674
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 2: was like, oh no, but it was so it sucked

675
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: for everybody, right yeah. Yeah. Also closing, sorry, this is

676
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,439
Speaker 2: so long ago. I'm not to say this Monday Miniu famous.

677
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 2: One day, maybe I'll come talk about kind of famous

678
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: people involved.

679
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, if.

680
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 4: You're part of the hip hop world, you'll know what

681
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 4: we're talking about. If you've been following any of the

682
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 4: Trump stuff in Atlanta, you'll know what we're talking about.

683
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 4: There's some big, big players here.

684
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

685
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: I was like, oh myle myle my. Okay, Well, if

686
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 2: you get Jerry Duty, I feel for you. But I

687
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: do think like there's value in having people who are

688
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: empathetic in care and having a diverse jury. So I

689
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: will say that that was my experience. I'm still kind

690
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: of recovering from it, but that was it.

691
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: Good job, Thank you, good way to serve your people.

692
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: Thank you again to you and Christina and Caroline for

693
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 2: making it work. But yes, listeners, if you have any

694
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: questions about Jerry Duty, or if you have any experiences

695
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: with Jerry Duty or being in court or anything like that,

696
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: testifying please let us know. You can write to us

697
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: at stephaniea mom Stuff at i heeartmedia dot com. You

698
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or

699
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok and Stuff We Never told you.

700
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 2: We have a tea public store, and we have a

701
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 2: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

702
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: as always too our super producer Christina or executive pducer

703
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: My Andrew Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for

704
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: listening Stuff I Never Told You Inspection by Heart Radio.

705
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check

706
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 2: out the heart Radio Apple podcast wherever you listen to

707
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: your favorite shows