WEBVTT - 112: Dōjinshi 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.040 Hello, welcome to another edition of Notificent. I am one 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.360 half of your host Danny Fernandez. Today I'm joined by 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:18.960 two of my dear friends that I've known for years, 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.799 for actual years, and I'm really excited for them to 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:27.040 tell you about their podcast because I've been involved in 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.680 a way. Um but today we are talking about do 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:32.559 Jin Shei, which if you don't know what it is, 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:34.400 we're going to get into it. And I'm joined by 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.360 hosts and writers and my close personal friends Ema five 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:43.440 in Chris Lamb, Hello, Hi, thank you so great to 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:48.319 virtually be here. I know I miss I miss us. 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:50.319 I guess we're kind of like we always see each 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:57.040 other at events, right, like cons and er. It's one 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.200 of the weirder things I think is that you know, 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.160 even people in in our profession who largely are freelancers, 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:06.840 and you often are working independently at home unless for 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.200 whatever reason you know you're lucky enough like oh you're 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.480 in a writer's room or you're on set that day 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.160 or whatever. There is a lot of sort of independent 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:18.039 work that goes into it. But because a lot of 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.640 what we do work wise takes us out to events, 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.679 I feel like I'm often so busy that conventions are 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.720 when I see all of my friends that I would 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.000 normally just see in Los Angeles anyway, but we never 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.080 have time for each other in l A. I know, 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:36.200 I Christ, do you feel the same way I do? Um, 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:41.400 that's kind of one of the um things about having 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.920 good tastes and friends and aligning yourself with people who 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.320 you know who know their stuff is that they are successful, 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.800 and oftentimes that means that, UM, it can be hard 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:56.200 to catch up, but you know, it's definitely something that um, 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:00.120 I try to accept, but it's also hard re accepting 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.920 it in this different context, right. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.360 of weird because I was really mixed about Comic Con 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.959 being canceled because that's so many people like I feel 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.239 for the artists, like I feel for the people who 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.200 really bank on making a lot of money at that 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.760 time and they that's like, uh there, yeah, time to 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.760 shine For me as a creator. It was kind of 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.680 like it felt like I could catch my breath, like 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.239 you know, and it was just like it's an honor 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.320 and a privilege to be able to do as much 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.760 as we do. However, con season is just kind of 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.280 one thing after another after another, and sometimes I believe 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.080 in like quality over quantity, I would say, and so 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.240 it's just nice getting to me. It was like so 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.840 mixed because it was like I have so much anxiety, 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:49.160 especially as an extroverted introvert. I feel like that is 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.280 a thing maybe like all of us are where we 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.399 like are very um passionate about our craft and really 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.400 good at what we do, and we're like on camera, 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.560 but when we're off camera, it's kind of like, Okay, 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.600 this is my little shell and please don't invade my bubble. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.800 I'm really you know, And so just the whole anxiety, 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:10.480 and I think there's an extra level of it's become 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.640 really Hollywood, like it's maybe I've been going since I 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.519 was eleven, and it's really Hollywood now, Like they have 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.960 shows they promote that aren't even nerdy. It'll just be 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:23.720 like Kenna ken Wait or like you, I mean young Sheldon, 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.679 I guess is ners still it'll be Yeah, It's true 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.800 like that there is with with San Diego Comic Con, 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:33.160 particularly there there is this very extreme level of marketing 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:37.320 that's going on. And yet because you do still have 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:42.280 your you know, obviously in in recent years they've pulled out, 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.600 but until very recently, you would have your big Marvel 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.440 Cinematic Universe paneling, you would have your big Marvel Television 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.240 panel and your Warner Brothers panel, and so you did 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.680 feel like you still really had to be there or 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.000 you were going to be missing out on something. I 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.320 know exactly how you feel about Danny because I felt 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.160 the same way where I was like, it's kind of 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.960 a relief in some ways, but on the other hand, 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.920 then in my like Instagram memories, a picture came up 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.120 of like me and and Xander genre I think, like 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.600 out drinking on that Wednesday when everyone's first getting into 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.600 town in San Diego, and I was like, I don't know, 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.560 it is really fun though, so I just I was 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.520 gonna say what I feel about it being Hollywood as 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:25.440 it turns into like, hey, did you get into this party? 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.279 Got into this party? And can you get me into 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.479 this party? And it's just that's not what it is. 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.120 It reminds me exactly what happened to us when we 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.200 were kids, like when we were nerds, and now we're 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:40.480 being treated like nerds again because they're not other party 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.200 and party right, and it's like, oh, you didn't get 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.919 into the e W party? Okay, well, you know, maybe 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.760 we'll meet up with you after. It's just like, it's 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.400 just like I did not live my life as I'm 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.599 not going to get in so let yeah, these popular 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:59.599 Hollywood people make me feel bad. So that's the other side. 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.320 I think that a lot of people don't see for 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.320 at least for us. And so when it was postponed 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.080 or canceled or whatever, I was like, oh my gosh, 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:07.640 the idea that I'm not going to have to deal 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:12.520 with the flaunting who you know, who's at this and 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:14.920 who got on what panel? Who is doing so much? 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:19.360 And like, I mean, I will say that just in 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.360 on the sort of opposite end of the San Diego 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.120 comic con spectrum, what I have found to be. I mean, obviously, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.200 there are tons of small conventions around the world that 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:34.280 really are more focused on, um, celebrating people coming together 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.080 to enjoy something that they love, as opposed to as 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.320 you say, be seen at a party. Um. But I 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.120 will say that my experience was Star Wars Celebration was 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.520 much more like those small conventions, which is like everyone 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.280 at Star Wars Celebration was there because they loved Star Wars. 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.559 There weren't any cool parties that people were worried about 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:55.040 getting into. Everybody who normally are peers who are in 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.640 again at that level at San Diego Comic Con, of 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:00.240 possibly some of them do get invited to the w 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.479 party and if you're not one of them, then you're 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.839 not doing as well as everybody else. At Stars Celebration, 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:06.600 like everyone was just hanging out with the Merriott bar, 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.200 it was so much more low key, um and it really, 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.320 it really was. It was so much fun. It was 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.320 so so much fun. Um. So yeah, that you know, conventions, 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:19.320 they're they're they're a mixed bag. But you know idea, 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.200 I was going to say, it's like apples and oranges 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:26.200 at this yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's my and 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.560 I do love Saneo. Comic Con has been like my 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.080 you know, home and love and stuff since my family's 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.800 from San Diego, so it's been a huge part of 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.640 my growing up. It was just watching it change, I 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.240 think is why it was kind of just like relieved 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.279 to get a break from it, because it is has 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:46.680 turned very like I said, Hollywood, and so it just 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.239 is kind of for me. I was like, oh, finally 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:53.120 I don't have to deal with like the Hollywood networking 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.240 like media con that it has become, and you know, 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.560 can geek out about things with my friends on this podcast. 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.920 Speaking of geeking out, UM, as you all know, every 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.680 week we talked about something that we're nerding out about, 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:08.520 and Chris, I wanted to ask you first, is there 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.280 anything that you're super into right now? I'm so happy 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.720 you asked that. So I think for me, I'm really 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:21.080 excited about, you know, miss everything going up in flames 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.360 and us in this time of heaval right now, I 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:31.400 have been anticipating the game Ghost of Tsushima. Oh and 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.920 can you tell people what it's about? I don't know. Yeah. 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.160 So it is a RPG made by Sucker Punch. It 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.440 was announced in two thousand seven, two thousand sorry, two 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:45.560 thousand eighteen. I believe UM and they were really inspired 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.760 by Kurosawa films basically, UM, the very famous black and 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:51.960 white samurai films. If you're not familiar with them, I 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.120 was not until I heard about Sushima. That's how I 0:07:55.120 --> 0:08:00.160 get into a lot of things through video games. And UM, 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.920 I've been actually watching Karrosawa films and kind of preparation 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:09.480 for the game, and it's been really really educational and UM, 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.040 the actor that he has in the two movies that 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:16.360 I watched, Seven Samurai and Yo Jimbo. He is very 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:20.080 very hot. He's dead now, but he's hot. Um. I 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.560 think you would really like him, Danny. No. I mean 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.440 I feel that way about the guy who plays Satan 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.360 in The Holleen Man. He's past, but he'll live on 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.640 very hotly in my heart. He just has like he 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.439 just has like that level of drip before like drip 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.240 was invented, you know, Like that's what I'm talking about, 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.560 you know, Like he has like there's like this really 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.320 great picture. I should send it to you. Like there's 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.160 this great picture where he has like he does that 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.080 thing where like he takes his arm and like he 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.800 puts it back into his shirt and like he is 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:57.040 like rubbing his five o'clock shadow like through um the 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:02.959 neck hole of his uh yukata kimono. Situation. That was 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.640 really hot that you did it, though. It was thank you, 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.040 thank you, thank you. Um what about you, Emma, what 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:13.040 are you geeking out about? Oh? Well? I finally came 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:16.040 around to playing Persona five Royal. So I played the 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.360 original Persona five, which was released in two thousands sixteen, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.720 or maybe it was early seventeen. Somewhere in that time period, 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:28.679 um uh and I had been wanting to play Royal Edition, 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.800 which is just like the expanded remastered version. They've added 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.080 a bunch of new characters and new gameplay elements that 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.840 actually are really really good. It makes it totally worth 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.200 replaying a hundred plus our game. Um but I had 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.320 not necessarily been ready to jump into it. So it 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.760 came out right before the Final Fantasy seven remake was released. 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:50.679 It came out like end of March, and Final Fantasy 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.840 seven Remake came out April ten, So I went, I 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:55.640 don't really want to get into this one. I know 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.160 that I'm going to start the Final Fantasy seven remake. 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:00.560 And then when I finished remake, I went, I don't 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.160 really have the emotional energy for persone of five yet. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.280 But then all of a sudden, I was struck with 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.880 I needed to play this game, and it has been 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:13.080 so so much fun, particularly to play it on my 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:17.120 Twitch stream with an audience. It's just like again, I'm 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.560 loving all of the changes that they made to the game. 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.640 The new characters are all super interesting. I just met 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:27.480 the school psychologist, who was a new addition to Royal addition, 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.360 and like, let me tell you, he keeps offering me 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.839 to come to his office to have some snacks. You 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:39.080 a snack onto yourself, Like, ah, this isn't anything new 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.400 to the original game. That Danny just to let you 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.880 know there are adults that have a crush on the 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.680 high school boy. It's very complicated problem. Sorry, okay, I 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.400 don't pay attention. No, yeah, but no, no, no, this 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.760 this I just don't write me. I do not play 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:58.360 this game. I don't know what you guys were talking about, 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.000 but I just heard. No shame. Just know that there 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:05.040 there is um equally as intense things happening in the 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:09.920 original Yes, um yeah, this has not crossed any lines 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:15.920 as of yet. But listen, he's I am an adult woman. 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.360 I am into this character, an adult man. Let me 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:24.320 be right, right right, there's there's game play. There's role playing, 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:30.040 a role playing game. So you're right, you're right, You're right. Um. 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.440 The thing that I'm geeking out about is actually uh 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:38.400 an artist named Sailor Jubs. She's Julia Mellow. She's a 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.520 Brazilian artist, and um, she needed too. She was taking 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.160 commissions because she just moved and wanted to pay for 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.760 her apartment, and so I bought up a bunch of 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:52.040 commissions and had her do my friends and so she 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.439 did amazing artwork, Like some of y'all saw it on 0:11:55.520 --> 0:12:00.200 my feed. It was so real. She got Danielle Radford 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.360 who's been on our Buffy episode, Joel Monique, who is 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:07.800 our producer who's listening right now. Um, she did Sabina 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.520 Graves who was on our Haunted Mansion episode. She did 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.160 my friend Kata and Dreusco. Like but just like so 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.800 spot on, and I can tell you all, this is 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:19.080 such a great gift. It wasn't even that much like 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.520 she was. You know, she had full body or half 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.560 body commissions where she would do a portrait of your 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.040 friends and it's like such a great surprise, or like 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.120 if it's someone's birthday, it was to be in his birthday, 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.480 so I sent hers to her. But like, it was 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.120 just so spot on, and it helped this independent artist 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.640 pay for her apartment, and it also was a great 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.400 gift for my friends. So again she goes by at 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:45.120 sailor Jubs it's j U b S. And she is 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.600 such a great artist and just really kind. Yeah, I 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.880 when you posted those photos I or that artwork. Rather 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.040 I scrolling through, I didn't have to like see who 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.280 was tagged in which picture. I knew exactly who everybody was. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.360 It was so and it was so great and it 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.080 was just like we all have different skin tones, we 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.480 all have different hair textures, and like she was just 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:12.000 able to capture everybody's beauty and um, that was just 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.160 I just thought she did such a great job. So 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:22.720 props to her. And we're talking about art today. Art. 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.959 So for people who don't quite know or haven't heard 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.400 the term DUGITSI like, what is that? Well, it is 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:38.199 it is very simply fan created works that are typically 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.720 derivative of, uh an existing piece of fiction. So while 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.800 in the States, I think we tend to think of 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:50.679 it as only being fan created comics, it also is 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.880 a term that applies to like fan art collections or 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:58.120 two published light novels. The key is is that it 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.840 is people self publishing. Like I said, it is largely 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.600 um work that is derivative of other works, but it's 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:11.120 not necessarily like bottom line has to be in order 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.959 to be considered Dogenci, Right, yeah, yeah, So the way 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:16.679 I was going to explain it to people is like, 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.080 if you know fan fiction, which is like if you 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:23.560 read say, Harry Potter fan fiction, that's not written by J. K. 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:27.120 Rowling or any of the other authors that have been involved. 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.080 It is um by fans, and so this is fan 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.520 created art. So it looks like manga, looks like a 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.160 comic book. Um, very beautiful drawing some of them. I mean, 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.280 you can't really tell between the original manga d I 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:46.120 mean you definitely come across Dogenci creators who are real 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:52.440 good at mimicking the art style of the original. Yeah. 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:56.400 So the only difference between mainstream manga and original Dogenci 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.320 Dogenci is that Dogenci is not public by a publishing company, 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.040 itself published. Yeah, it's it's kind of the same way 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.000 that fan works. And honestly, you know, like let's plays 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.680 on video games, right, It's it's all done with the 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:17.280 unspoken agreement between the fan community and the original creator 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.080 that like, you know, okay, like you know, I'll I 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.040 won't do anything because this is really good for the 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:24.840 community and I want to support other artists, and this 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.240 is a great way for artists to get their work 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.360 out by using you know, in a pre existing I 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:33.640 p so um. But if they wanted to they could. So, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:42.240 what was your first the first dogenci that you stumbled upon? Well, 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:48.280 let me see, I I had a I really think 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:53.040 I was aware of doginci in the same way that 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.840 a lot of people in the US become aware of doginci. 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.560 And and what I do believe is and really be 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.720 attitude that a lot of Westerners have towards do ginci 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.920 um is that it is all uh, adult in nature, 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.880 shall we say? Um? So, I think the first sort 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.360 of doginci that I ever came across it was just 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.840 I was really into this um this computer game called 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:22.240 Ragnarok Online. Uh, and for whatever reason, there was just 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:27.480 an influx of dojinci um that was, you know, kind 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:32.680 of of the tentacle porn variety, shall we say, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.720 which I which I came across um. But I definitely 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:41.080 also uh, as I got more involved in fandom and 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:45.080 in fan works, Uh, the first ones I can remember 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.640 where there was really like a story to be followed, 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:54.080 and they weren't all necessarily like really explicit in nature, 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.720 though they were like shown and I stories are like 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.080 boys love, which is a big um sub genre with 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.640 INJOGINCHI in particular, but it was like Gundam wing Um 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.240 because that was airing onto Nami in like early two thousand's, 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.439 I want to say. And so at that point we 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.760 had also like just gotten high speed internet. Uh, and 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.760 I I did what all not all, but many many 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.960 young women who get into that particular show or any 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.480 any other number of shows where the majority of characters 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:28.359 are the primary characters are young attractive men, you know, 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.399 b shownn um. And I started off being like, I 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.080 don't really like any of the girls on this show. 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.399 I'm gonna write fan fiction um. And I was writing 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.760 like Mary sus um, which if you don't know what 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:41.880 a Mary Sue is, it's a It's a very uh 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:46.119 idealized female character, often seen a sort of a self 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.639 insert when creating fan works. But then I pivoted completely 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:51.720 into being like, no, I want these boys to kiss 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.320 each other um and uh and yeah, so I would 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.080 say that there there was definitely some like Hiro Duo, 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.080 Gundham wing Ocean she that I And it was the 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.800 same thing where it's like I started with like dipping 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:06.919 my even though again I'd already I had gone like 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.600 full tentacle porn, and I was like I need to 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.800 step back from this. So I was like, oh, this 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.439 is like kind of a nice love story and like 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.679 they kiss but it's not anything explicit, or maybe they 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.680 even just hold hands, but you know that. I then 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:23.040 I pivoted into full on pornography. But yeah, wow, what 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.200 about you, Chris. Yeah, so I started. I can remember 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:31.320 it like it was yesterday. Um, it was Naruto and 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:38.639 Sauce easily. And I definitely was kind of in the 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.840 similar trajectory of like, Okay, you know this is shown 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.919 and I, which is known to be not porn you know, 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.720 it's it's very light romance. It's about the romance, not 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.000 about the sex, you know. And so I was like, hmmm, 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.960 this is a little boring for me. I want something 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:56.919 a little bit more raunchy than this. I want to 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:01.440 see them actually do things. And so I looked further. 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:03.560 I found what I wanted, and I also found a 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.600 lot more narrowto ships, because I mean there's so many 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.800 characters in there. Obviously it's tread or show really um 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.960 awesome as Sen Sa Kakashi and Dha Sen say um. 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.199 And then I think that was kind of like my 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:22.280 gateway into ntai proper. And then my gateway into actual 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.760 porn with real people. There's this weird trajectory. I I'm 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.840 pretty sure I've told Emma this before on the podcast Live, 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.959 where I had this weird sense of like, oh, these 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.120 aren't real people, and so like I'm better than most 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.320 of the people that are actually watching actual porn, Like 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:44.240 that's for the really raunchy and sinful people in this world. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.280 And then I just joined them. That's so funny to 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:53.120 be like I'm observing art. Yes, yes, that I think 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.040 that is exactly the attitude that that a lot of 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.280 people have is yeah, you're like, these these are drawings, 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.560 this is artwork. Somebody like took the time to do this. 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:06.560 I mean they are very beautiful, meticulous art, but also 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:12.000 boobies yep, yep. Um mine was I talked on y'all's podcast, 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.919 and mine was Vegeta and Boma from Dragon ball Z. 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:18.520 Because I think when you look for it's the same 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:20.960 reason you reach out and read fan fiction is when 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:26.240 you're looking up do Ginci is because you're looking for more. 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.159 You want to like see the things that they're not 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:33.280 showing on the show. Yes, exactly right, exactly right. Yeah, 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.600 So you're like, what what is happening when they're not fighting? 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:41.800 What is happening when the TV turns off? And so um. 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.000 So that's why I was looking at Vegeta Boma and 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:48.879 they have beautiful, great, also very sexual um strips, you know, 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:53.240 these manga strips of them. So we're actually going to 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:58.400 dive into the history of do Ginci right after this 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:10.240 and we're back. I'm still here with Emma and Chris. 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.600 We're trying to not be too spicies, just spicy enough 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:17.880 because y'all are gonna y'all are gonna go and look 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.040 at you know, we will tweet some of our favorites 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.760 that were allowed to allowed to post, so okay, so 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:25.680 we'll we'll get more into this as we get deeper 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.920 into the history of DOI. But one of the reasons 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:33.879 that do has been able to continue to exist without 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:38.560 any pushback from publishers is because it doesn't have mass 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:44.240 market distribution. Yeah, I mean that's true. They can sell 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:48.280 it though, because by so technically they are making money 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.080 off of To me, it kind of reminds me though, 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:52.840 like we were just talking about Comic Con, when you 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.840 go to artists Ali and the print of Iron Man 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.199 and so that artist is able to make you know 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:02.200 their own R in their style, but using an I 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.120 Marvel I P. But however they can make money off 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.480 of it, correct, Yeah. Yeah. Usually the way that I've 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.520 noticed that a lot of people sell it if they 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.439 decided to sell it online, you know, like publicly like 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:18.679 easily findable, is they won't name the I P that 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:20.639 it's from or the character. Right then it'll be like, 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:23.240 you know, if they're selling like a Sailor moon fan 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:30.920 at Princess something that reminds me of like in Mexico 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:32.760 there's dragon ball Z toys and it will just be 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.679 Power Up Man and it'll be like like it'll just 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:39.680 be like but it'll be Superman's body and Goku's hair. 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:47.280 It was amazing, amazing Golden Power Boy. Okay. So the 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.639 history of jo gin Shei. The pioneer among jo ginchi 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.000 magazines was actually Morning Bell. It was published in the 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:58.159 early Meiji period since eighteen seventy four. It's not a 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.000 literary magazine, but it played a big and spreading the 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:04.840 idea of dogin she So. The first magazine to publish 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:09.000 do gin Shei novels was Library of Odds and Ends. 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:12.800 It was founded in eighteen eighty five by writers Ozaki 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:17.280 Koyo and Yamada Bimo. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it was 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:19.879 all the way back then. Yeah. I also, I also 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:21.920 love the name Library of Odds and Ends. I think 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.199 that's such a cute name. I know, it sounds like 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:26.560