WEBVTT - Shanda Sharer 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:07.400 You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:11.160 Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.120 are solely those of the individuals participating in the show 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.560 and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.280 This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.160 for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.960 Hi, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Yvette Gentila 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:35.159 and I'm Rasha Paccuerrero. This week, we are talking about 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:40.080 a truly shocking case, and that's the case of Shonda Cherer, who, 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:45.120 at the age of twelve, was abducted, tortured, and killed 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.479 by four teenage girls. Yeah. This is a case of 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.120 teenage bullying gone completely off the deep in and it's 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:57.080 been the subject of at least two true crime books 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:01.960 and a play featuring Chloe Sabagnier, and many poems about 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:02.640 this as well. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.880 And I think what fascinates everyone, or so it seems, 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:11.679 is how this crime was perpetuated by teenage girls. I 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.160 mean mean girls is an understatement on this case. It's 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.640 the original mean girls, right. 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.560 Yeah, And so we're going to be getting into that today, 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.559 and we're also going to be talking with our guest 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:30.680 who is a author and journalist. She is Aphrodite Jones, 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.800 and she's written a book about this case. 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.440 But first our producer Trevor is going to take us 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:38.399 through today's case. 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.280 Jackie Vaught's daughter Shanda, was kidnapped and murdered in nineteen 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.520 ninety two by four teenage girls. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.880 Court testimony showed some of the girls had been abused 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:50.760 by their parents. 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.440 It turns into anger. If you keep that hurt and 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.160 don't let it go or don't forgive that person, that 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.720 hurt can turn into anger and hate, and I'll make 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.480 you do things that you would never really do. That evening, 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.880 there were four girls there that had a lot of 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.000 hatred inside of them, and it just all exploded. 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.120 Shanda Shearer was a twelve year old girl who was 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.640 killed in nineteen ninety two by four other girls in Madison, Indiana. 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.519 The year before, She and her family had just moved 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.800 to the nearby town of New Albany, Indiana. That fall, 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.000 she met a girl named Amanda Heron. Soon they began 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.800 exchanging romantic letters, and in October they went to a 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.880 dance together. At the dance, they were confronted by another 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:44.640 girl named Melinda Loveless. Loveless was older sixteen. The previous spring, 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.480 she and Amanda had been romantically involved, and although the 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.440 relationship had fizzled out, they had never formally ended things. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:57.240 Seeing Amanda at the dance with someone else, Melinda got angry. 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.760 Melinda had a difficult home life with a violent and 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.919 sexually abusive father. She was close friends with seventeen year 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.960 old Laurie Tackett, who also had a difficult time at 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.560 home and had dropped out of high school that year. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.280 Also in their orbit where two other girls named Hope 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.120 Rippy and Tony Lawrence, who were both fifteen years old. 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.120 The night of January tenth, nineteen ninety two, the four 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.840 girls were hanging out and Melinda Loveless told the girls 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.359 that she was going to use a knife to scare Shanda, 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:32.200 a girl they'd never met. She wanted to intimidate Shanda 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:36.280 for dating her girlfriend. The girls drove to Shanda's house, 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.280 where Tony Lawrence and Hope Rippy went to the door 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.920 and told Shanda they were friends of Amanda's and that 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.120 Amanda wanted to meet her at a building known locally 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.640 as the Witch's Castle, an abandoned stone house by the 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.680 Ohio River. When she got in the car with them, 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:57.080 Lawrence held a knife to Shanda's throat. The girls drove 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:01.800 to Witch's castle and dragged a sobbing Shanda inside. There, 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.920 Melinda Loveless tied Shanda's hands as Rippy taunted her with 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.360 the knife. The girls took her jewelry and a Mickey 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:13.520 Mouse watch that she was wearing. Later, Melinda Lovelass and 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:18.200 Lori Tackett made Shanda strip down to her underwear. Then 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.839 the girls began assaulting her, punching her and taking turns 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.919 stabbing her in the chest. Then they strangled her with 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.640 a rope until she passed out, and then put her 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.600 in the trunk. At one point, Shanda began screaming from 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.880 the trunk, and so Laurie Tackett went to go stab 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:39.600 her again with a pairing knife. Melinda Lovelace reportedly laughed 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:43.320 and bragged about the torture to her friends, and finally 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.880 the girls drove Shanda to a secluded area where they 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.680 poured gasoline on her and lit her on fire. Shanda's 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:55.039 body was found by two hunters and they alerted the police. 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.760 The next day. Hope, Rippy and Tony Lawrence went to 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.560 the county Sheriff's office and gave statements describing the night before. 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.279 They put most of the blame on Melinda Lovelace and 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:10.760 Lori Tackett. All four girls went to trial and entered 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.719 plea bargains to avoid the death penalty. Melinda and Laurie 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.480 were tried as adults and were both sentenced to sixty 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:21.400 years in prison. However, they were released on parole in 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:26.320 twenty nineteen and twenty eighteen, respectively. Hope Rippy received a 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.200 thirty five year sentence and was released on parole in 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:33.440 two thousand and eight. Tony Lawrence received twenty years and 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.760 was released on parole in two thousand and So what 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.120 led to the murder of Shanda Scherer and how could 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.440 four teenage girls be driven to torture and kill another 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:45.799 person so violently? 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:50.560 Hello? 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:55.080 Everyone, We are so pleased to welcome our guests for 0:05:55.120 --> 0:06:00.800 today's case. Writer, journalist, and crime expert Afrodyite Jones is 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.080 here with us today. She has written a book on 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:09.080 the case of Shanda Sharer entitled Cruel Sacrifice. She's also 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.279 written numerous other true crime books, including The FBI Killer 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:18.039 and A Perfect Husband. Many of Aphrodite's books have been 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:22.320 made into films and television shows, and she even produced 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:26.080 her own show, True Crime with Aphrodite Jones, which ran 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:31.360 for six seasons on Investigation Discovery. The list of amazing 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:36.040 credentials goes on and on and on. So, without further ado, 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.760 Aphrodite a komo mai or welcome to facing evil. 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.599 Thank you. I've been used to facing evil my whole 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:45.719 professional life. 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.880 Oh you and us both, Aphrodite, who we got a 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:50.840 lot to talk about. 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:52.800 I'm like kidding when I say that. 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:53.680 You know that, right? 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:54.640 Yeah? 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:55.080 I know. 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.480 Well, now that we know a little bit about you, Aphrodite. 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.919 You know, of course we want to talk today about Shanna, 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.440 but we want to learn even more about you. So 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:10.160 we fell into true crime because of our lineage and 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:14.160 its connection to our mom's story. How did you fall 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:16.920 into true crime? Like how did you first get interested 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:17.280 in it? 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:17.480 Like? 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.760 What led you to this, you know, facing evil of 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:21.200 your own? 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.800 Well, it was it was honestly a calling for me. 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.280 It was a fluke. I was living in Kentucky, Appalaysia 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.560 at the time. I was a professor college and I 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.400 also did a radio gig because I always was involved 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.800 with media and broadcasting. So I was doing a radio 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.119 gig as well, and an FBI agent killed his lover 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.360 informant and became the first FBI agent in history and 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:50.560 still to this day to cop a murder plated manslaughter. 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.840 He led them to her bones. She was pregnant and 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:59.920 threatening him and mountain woman in other words, hillbilly right 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:04.640 back then, So I'm like, okay, where's the news the time, 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.240 I didn't have it. Newsweek had a blurb this big, 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.160 and I just understand, like, where's CNN? Where is everybody? Why? 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:16.760 This is a historic case. So I called my agent. 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:18.600 I had an agent, had Toady written a book about 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.000 the entertainment business, because that's the business I was in 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:22.440 and wanted to be in. 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:27.320 Same understand, let me talk. 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.320 To killers and monsters, you know, and people who've lost 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.320 family members. That was not in the carts, I thought. Anyway. 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.680 I called the agent and he said, oh, you can't 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.360 do anything about this. This is a big story and 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:37.920 Rule is going to be calling. I thought, who the 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:38.640 hell is and Rule? 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:40.680 At that time, That's how little I knew about it, right, 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:42.800 He said, you don't read this. I did a PhD 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:43.400 in literature. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.040 No, there was no true prime on the list at NYU, 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.439 so ps she he said, well, reading coulb what I did, 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.400 and somehow thought at that time I could do this, 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.840 and I wound up, you know, interviewing my family. It 0:08:55.840 --> 0:09:00.040 became a TV movie with Patricia Cat Stephen Weber, and 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.480 the book was incredibly successful. And then I hit on 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.679 Curl Sacrifice, and when that happened, I went to the 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.480 New York Times list. I kind of got stuck with 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:14.280 the genre in particular writing Curl Sacrifice. When I look 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.240 back at it, and I did look back last night 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:20.080 in preparation for this, that was the hardest book probably 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.280 that I ever wrote, because of the subject matter. Of course, 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.160 I really didn't want another write intrade crime book after that. 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:27.079 I really did not. 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:28.199 I was so. 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:34.360 Mentally drained, emotionally drained from the whole experience. I was 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.400 able to see the car that Shanda was in. I 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.680 was taken to the evidence area where that car was 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:45.240 in a lot, and they opened that trunk and dry 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:50.160 blood was still there and you could smell it. Oh, 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.559 and you could see areas where she tried to scratch 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.280 her way through because those old cars in those days, 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.640 you could get through the backseat through the speakers, and 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.560 and this poor girl was trying to do that right, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:04.800 you know, when they asked me, did I want to 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:09.200 see the chunk? Wasn't expecting that. Then what happened was 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:14.480 when I got to the Hope Rippy's sentencing hearing in 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.240 South Bend, Indiana, a writer came up to me and said, 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.880 I'm writing this book. And I said, well, good luck 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:20.080 to you. 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.920 Oh, I said, good luck to you. 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.079 You know, like I'm working with the family. I said, okay, 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:27.560 good luck to you. 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:29.720 Yeah. I didn't know the name of the book at 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:29.959 the time. 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.360 I just knew that Jackie bought the mom was working 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.040 with this writer, and in my mind, I had no choice. 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.760 But also the story was really to talk to these girls. 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:43.640 That was the story. What happened these children's lives. They're 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:47.400 fifteen and sixteen years old. What could have happened in 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:52.400 these girls' lives they could possibly have made them do this? 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.520 And in particular obviously Melinda Loveless because she was the ringleader. 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.280 So I wrote to her, oh you did, oh yeah, 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.080 and Melinda answered and when we comes here and I 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.440 have to say back then, I've seen pictures of her 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.840 recently where she was released. She was gorgeous in person. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.520 She's not photogenic. Her pictures do not do her justice. 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.720 This girl was dropped dead gorgeous, I mean sixteen, but 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:21.480 she was absolutely stunning. And I could not believe I'm 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.120 sitting there with this beautiful girl who was telling me, 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.360 oh it was it was so sad. She was just 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.920 so nonchalant about it. I was just like, that's how 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.760 it was back then. I'm like, back then, you're sixteen. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:35.439 When was back then when you were six? 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:36.079 Oh? 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.800 You know, wow, so weird. 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.640 But she wanted she wanted me to tell the story, 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.720 and she connected me with her mom, who I worked with, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.199 you know, for quite a while. And obviously then the 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.280 police and the evidence and all the rest of the 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.160 interviews came in. It was tough. 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.960 I can only imagine aphrodity, Like, you know, I'm just 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.480 sitting there listening to everything that you're saying and taking 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:08.080 it in, and you know, this crime was so incredibly brutal, 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.400 you know, And when we think about it, it was 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.280 in nineteen ninety two, like Russia and I were both 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.800 in Hawaii, so I hadn't heard of it at all. 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:21.360 But the fact that these girls right were so young 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:26.640 and we've all been through mean girls, teenage bullying. But 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:34.120 the extremeness the torture in which you were just talking about, right, Melinda, 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:39.920 like what they did to Shanda, How do we comprehend that? 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.040 You know from you writing your book and interviewing, like, 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:44.960 how did you so? 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.839 First and foremost, I realized that Melinda, who was the ringleader, 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.800 was the only person who wanted to have this done, 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.280 so it had to be her backstory. I knew there's 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.559 something in her background that's horrific, which there was and 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.480 is apart from that. And her mother admitted to me 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.280 that she was a masochist, and I just she know. 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.840 The mother was raped by various people. The father raped 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.800 the mother in front of the girls. There was a 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.560 lot of sleeping with the girl's pistol whipping. I don't 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.920 you know, craziness in that household that I later discovered. 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.840 But also the thing that struck me was Lori Tackett 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:25.520 was out for blood. She was a ticking time on. 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.480 So when Melinda Loveless connected with Lori Tackett, she found 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:35.600 the person she needed. Tony Lawrence and Hope Rippy were 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.280 just in the car for the ride down from Madison 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.640 to no Obany. That's a pretty long ride right now. 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.400 It's not a fifteen minute you know drive away. It's 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.160 an hour plus two almost. It's quite a bit of 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.640 a distance. So you know, those girls went along for 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.480 a ride. They don't even know what they're getting into 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.559 until they got to Melinda's house, who they've never met 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.800 in their lives. And Melinda says, I just she pulls 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.679 out that knife, scare Shanda. They don't even know who 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:03.959 Shanda is. They don't none of them have met Shanda 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.440 first and foremost you have to say to answer your 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.959 question that this has to do partially with pure pressure, 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.600 because the other two girls that didn't have really either 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.559 a dog in this bite or a bloodlust. How did 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.360 they wind up participating? And that's an interesting dynamic here 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:27.040 because we see how people I don't know drop like lemmings, 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:32.000 especially when they're teenagers. The other thing with teenagers, as 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:36.120 we all know, everything is the end of the world, right, yeah, 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:41.080 there's no tomorrow here. Everything is the end of the world. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.520 And it's all you met somebody two seconds ago and 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.280 your best friends, I love her. 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.800 Hell for yesterday. 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.040 But this is like she's so right, So you have 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:57.920 all these weird mixture of elements that you know, you 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:03.280 could say bullying. I mean, Shannon was bullied in the school, right, 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.040 Melinda was after her. But this goes beyond any kind 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:08.960 of bullying. I mean, let's face it, this is one 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.760 of the worst crimes in the history of teenagers. 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:13.120 It really, truly is. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.400 I have so much respect for you that you can 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.080 go in as you know, basically as a journalist with 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:44.040 open eyes and not look at Melinda or any of 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.960 these other young girls because they were young girls that 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.200 did this horrific. 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.120 Unthinkable thing. 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.680 But again I don't want to give them a free 0:15:55.720 --> 0:16:00.600 past because of their history and their home life had 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.720 to affect what they did to Shanda, right, like you said, 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.120 it wasn't just bullying like this was something deeper, something 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.280 horrific had been done to these young girls. 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.280 Well, so, Melinda, we believe was sleeping with their father. 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:16.840 We know they slept in the same bed. She never 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.520 admitted that he actually you know, had sex with her, 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.280 but we know he had sex with the other two 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.840 daughters and the mother had sex. He raped the mother 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:28.120 in front of the three girls. All that went on. Also, 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.640 there was allegations that he had molested her cousins, So 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.080 out of all females in that household, she's the only 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.320 one who didn't admit to that. When her parents got 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.120 a divorce and Larry Lovelace left the house, Melinda now 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.360 felt like she's deserved by the only man that she 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.440 cares about. Clearly she's in love with her father, and yes, 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.000 I'm sure she was, you know, being molested thinking that 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.800 this was okay in this incestuous relationship because kids don't 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.480 know what to think, especially if they've been groomed from 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.040 a young age. Is sitting happen when she turned sixteen. 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.639 This is going on from the time she's a little girl, 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.920 and with her older sisters. Now I found out from 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.160 the older sisters who I spoke with. So when you're 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.440 in that scenario and your only person in the world 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:21.360 who you trust, who you think is your protector and 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:26.119 your love of your life leaves, now obviously she doesn't 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.399 trust men. So that's why she's with the girls's with 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.160 Amanda Heaven and now Amanda Heaven, who she'd been holding 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.639 on to for dear life right as her person in 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.320 the world who had you know, more of a butch. 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:40.960 Look, if you want to use that word. 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.200 You know, the backwards baseball hat, the very short hair, 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.600 the whole opposite of Melinda with the long Floyd locks. 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.600 And it was a male figure in her life as well. 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:51.760 And now that person. 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.840 Is leaving her for some little girl, whoever that little 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.040 girl is. In Melinda's mind, it's not a little girl. 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.920 It's a competition. They didn't separate themselves from whether they're 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.119 fifteen or twelve. Yeah, and that's interesting because you know 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:04.920 you think of, oh, that's the way it is today. 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.000 All these kids are produced and they mix it up 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.639 and Matt, no, this has been going on from the beginning. 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:14.960 Of time, right, we were having this conversation about another case. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.359 And if you think about everything that you just said 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.560 about what Melinda had gone through as a child, and 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:25.360 if you treat someone like a dog, they're gonna behave 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.760 like a dog. Melinda, she didn't know what love is, 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:33.480 but she believed that she loved Amanda. And now Amanda 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:35.480 is leaving her as well. 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.320 And that's another thing. People redirect anger, right, So rather 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.680 than putting the anger toward her mother, who allowed all 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.639 of this and who admitted to me that she was 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.520 a massachist and allowed herself to be raped in front 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:51.639 of these girls, etc. Et cetera, and has swinging partners 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:53.879 and other people brought into the house and the girl's 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.320 hearing all of it and knowing the house it's small. 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:02.200 So Melinda is thinking that that the world is upside 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.600 down for her. It doesn't make any sense to her. 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.040 She needs some kind of validation, and that's what she 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:12.520 got from Amanda Hevron. So now her validation goes away. 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.000 Now her she doesn't know what's with life. And again, 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.400 you know, with teenagers's the end of the world. For her, 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.640 it was the end of the world. She had to 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.560 eliminate this competition at whatever cost. 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.240 She didn't care, right, Yeah, I mean it's amazing. 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:32.960 You know. You look at the letters she wrote and 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.120 more of them which was read in the court said 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.639 I want Shanda dead and was very specific. 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:41.800 Wow, it's not like. 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.760 It was a laughterthought for her. This was premeditated, cold 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.560 blooded killed. That's what this was. Yeah, this was not 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:53.960 a lord Shanda from her house. Melinda was hiding in 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.439 the backseat of the car under a blanket, and then 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.359 once Shanna got in that car, Melinda jumps out the 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.119 knife to her throat, pulling her back from the front seat. 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.560 She had told the other girls that she just wanted 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:12.080 to scare Shanda. Lori Teckett, I'm sure knew more than that. 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.159 The other two girls who were along for the ride 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.800 did not. They really had no idea what they were 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.639 getting into. Those two girls would never have done this, 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.840 I'm convinced of that, had they not been in that car, 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.800 had they not been kind of prodded along the way. 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:30.880 Do you have to think about too and not making 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.280 any excuses for them, because we know Hope Rippy poured 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.679 the gasoline on Shanda. Part of the reason there was 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.119 so much torture, I think is that these girls really 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:46.040 didn't know how to kill someone. They thought that they 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.080 had killed her after they stabbed her a few times 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.159 and pulled the rope around her neck, thinking that they 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:52.840 strangled her. 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:54.920 And next thing I know, she's banging in the back 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:55.400 of the car. 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:57.920 But now you have two other girls in the back 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.399 seat here in Shanada. What are they thinking? Am I 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:02.919 going to be next? Like? 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:04.920 Look what they just did to this little girl. 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.720 We don't know Melinda, they never met before. She's holding 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.600 her knife to Shanna's neck and threatening at that witch's 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.480 castle that she's going to put her in with a 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.399 bag of bones with the other bones, and the girls 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.520 at that point all chimed in because that was just 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.720 kind of having fun, you know, it was a game 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.399 to them in the beginning. They drummed this whole thing 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:25.320 up and they scared her. 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:31.080 This is just a whole another level of cruelty. And 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.440 when I think about, like for me, thinking about this case, 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:36.480 and it's probably it may be different for you because 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:38.760 you were, you know, right in the mix of it, 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.600 you know, interviewing, and you wrote a book about it. 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:43.680 But do you. 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:47.879 Think that these girls should have been tried as adults? 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.760 Absolutely. I met with one of their lawyers and I'll 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.520 never forget he said to me, this is a mind 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.520 feel out there. Every time you get another teen who's 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:00.639 coming to you for whatever reason in the you know, 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:05.640 violation crime. They've committed act of violence. They're just waiting 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.400 to blow up. Now, this was thirty years ago. It's 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:11.000 funny that right now we say that about now right 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.760 we see school careersoting those didn't even exist back then. 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.600 In nineteen ninety two, when this book in ninety three 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.800 was being written and came out, there was no schoolhouse shootings. 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:22.200 Yet there was nothing. 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.520 So when this lawyer said to me, I face a mind. 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:29.920 Feel out there every time. You know, he represented juveniles. 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:34.000 Every time another juvenile came to him for defense, he 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:39.000 would see what was behind their mask and the vulnerability 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:43.359 and sadness and just lack of ability. 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:44.960 To cope with life. 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:45.760