1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:01,520 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 2: But when I do look out into the audience, I 3 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 2: realize that music is a communal thing. You know, it's 4 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: kind of in reggae talk about a sort of universal consciousness. 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: But I realized that those records were hits that we 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 2: had in the day because people celebrated them. You know, 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 2: it made sense to them, the guys at the time. 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: It meant something, you know what I mean. It captured 9 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 2: a little bit of the moment. 10 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taken a Walk Podcast, the podcast that 11 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: delves into the stories about musicians and their creative process. 12 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: If you want to explore musicians and their resilience and 13 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: how they embrace the power of music, check out our 14 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: companion podcast, Music Saved Me, hosted by Lynn Hoffman. Today, 15 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: we're thrilled to have with us a true legend of 16 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: the New Romantic era and beyond, Martin Fry, the charismatic 17 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: frontman of ABC. Martin's distinctive voice and sharp songwriting have 18 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: given us timeless hits like The Look of Love and 19 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: Poison Arrow. We'll be delving into Martin's newly release stuto biography, 20 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: The Look of Love. Welcome Martin Fry to takeing a 21 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: Walk with buzz Night Now. 22 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 3: Well, Martin, thanks for being on the Taking a Walk podcast. 23 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 3: I appreciate it. And since it's called taken a Walk, 24 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you, Yeah, if there was someone 25 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 3: you could take a walk with, living or dead. Doesn't 26 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 3: have to be a musical figure. 27 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 4: But it could be. 28 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 3: Who would that be and where do you think you'd 29 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 3: like to take that walk with them? 30 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: It would be nice to take a walk through the 31 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: center of London with David Bowie. 32 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. 33 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: I just finished a book by Paul Morley called The 34 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: Age of Bowie and it kind of traces Bowie's kind 35 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: of sixties basically when he was trying to have a 36 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: hit record. He had a hit eventually with Space Oddity, 37 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: but he spent a lot of time in Soho, Regent Street, 38 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: all those kind of streets and back alleys in central London. Yeah, 39 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: so it'd be nice for him to give me a 40 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: tour of London, a city I know. 41 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and. 42 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: The book, Oh, that would be marvelous. 43 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 4: Obviously. 44 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: When David Boie finally broke through in the UK, particularly 45 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: with Ziggy Star as the rising full of Ziggy Starters, 46 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: the front cover was him in a on Hadden Street. 47 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: I think it was just in the in the post 48 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: books there. Yeah, so that'd be an interesting trip, a 49 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: little wander through through London town. 50 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: I think that'd be great. Now, you must have encountered 51 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 3: mister Bowie over your career. 52 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm a massive fan still am. And 53 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: a friend of mine, Paul Moreley, wrote this fantastic book, 54 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: The Age of Bowie, and I realized I've never read 55 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: it until now. 56 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 4: I just saw Paul recently. 57 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: He's a great writer, and I kind of realized reading 58 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: the book that i'd been mourning David Bowie. You know, 59 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: he passed away as we all know what, five years 60 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 2: ago now, I think. So, Yeah, it's kind of it's 61 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 2: taken me a while. I'm such a big fan. It's 62 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: takes me a while to go back to the music 63 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: and play station to station and a Ladd Insane and 64 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: yeah Americans, all those great albums he made, yeah back 65 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: in the day. Yeah, when we first went to We're 66 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: doing some recording with Trevor Horn on our first album 67 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: in Lexican Love, and we went to Good Earth Studios 68 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: for a couple of days and Tony Visconsin owned that studio, 69 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: so David Bowie showed up there he was kind of 70 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: doing performing in Baral. 71 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 4: I think this is nineteen eighty two, I think. So 72 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 4: we were kind of a fledgling band from Sheffield in 73 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 4: the north of England making our first. 74 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 2: Record and in walks David Bowie, so you can imagine 75 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: the effect of that. 76 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 4: But he was really cool. 77 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: He hung out and he kind of made a lot 78 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: of suggestions for the record, and he seemed to like 79 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: the atmosphere in the control room, you know, so it 80 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: was great for him to sprinkle a bit of his 81 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: magic stardust, his ziggy stardust onto the project. Yeah, it 82 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: was a good omen and it came though well. I mean, 83 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: I'm a fan as you can tell. But he came 84 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: to a show, stood in the wings, watched the show, 85 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: and nobody told me he was there because they knew. 86 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 4: If I knew, I would freak out. You know. 87 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: It wise to meet your heroes. Once I was in 88 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: Los Angeles and I went to see Prince incredible show 89 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: Prince put together I think it was. I think it 90 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: was the Under the Cherry Moon tour and somebody said, 91 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: you want to come backstage and I kind of, oh, 92 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, I'm kind of I'm going 93 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,559 Speaker 2: to head back to the hotel. I've seen an incredible show. 94 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 2: I don't know, is it wise to meet your heroes? 95 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: And now I say yes, I wish I had them. 96 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, back to Bowie there, I mean, 97 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 3: what an unbelievable way for him to go out right 98 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: with being so so Yeah, we so creatively inspired. 99 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 2: Bringing new music though, Yeah, yeah, very much so. And 100 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: when I look, I mean when I read the book, 101 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: I started to kind of reassess a lot of things 102 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: about his career. His career was really haven't gone by 103 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: today's standards. He was very popular, he's a big star, 104 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: but he always kind of went down that original route. 105 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: Originality was at the forefront of everything he did, right 106 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: to the end, you know, with the band on Black Star, Yeah, 107 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: that album. So yeah, he's a great I mean he 108 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: affected a whole generation of my generation, and all the 109 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: bands that came through when we started with ABC, like Duran, 110 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: Duran and Depeche Mode and The Cure and New Order 111 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: and all these bands were definitely influenced by the way 112 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 2: Debbie Boyd put things together. 113 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. 114 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: I Mean there's many artists out there. I love all 115 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: sorts of music, but yeah, that's why he's on the way. 116 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 3: And I think what's also a really cool story, which 117 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 3: I recently learned, was how Peter Frampton had had that 118 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 3: part of his career that went kind of sour and 119 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 3: Bowie said, well, you're going to come out on tour 120 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 3: with me and you're going to kind of re establish 121 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 3: yourself after going sour here and yeah, which I think 122 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 3: was so and Frampton is so grateful for that obviously 123 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 3: because it kind of helped resurrect his career. 124 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Peter Frampton's dad taught Bowie, didn't it art college? 125 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 4: I think that's what I read. Yeah, this book was 126 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 4: very in depth. 127 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: You know. I was sitting at home listening to I 128 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 2: was in my car listening to Walk on the wild Side, 129 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 2: you reading. The sax solo comes on and I thought 130 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: to myself, who played that? 131 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 4: Is it? A couple of session players from that time? 132 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 2: And in the book it tells me, you know, so 133 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: it was to be, you know, when the universe is 134 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: telling you something when you're in read your information arrives 135 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 2: just after. 136 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 4: You've asked the question. 137 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: So it sound like you never And obviously Walk on 138 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: the Wildside was a production David Bowie and Mick Ronson 139 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 2: produced that one. 140 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it sounds like you never had a Plan 141 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 3: B in your career as a musician. Is that fear 142 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: to say. 143 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 4: No Plan B? Yeah, I'm hitting sit. 144 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 2: I'm in my mid sixties now, and there's definitely no 145 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: plan B. Yeah, it's you got to go right out 146 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 2: on the ledge. Yeah, and hope that people like what 147 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: you do. Yeah, that's the secret. You beat to your 148 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: own rhythm. 149 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 150 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 3: You must be really excited to be back again co 151 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 3: headlining there with the super awesome previous guest on taking 152 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 3: a walk, Howard Jones. 153 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: Good. 154 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 4: I'm glad Howard's been sitting in this very seat chatting 155 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 4: to you. Yeah. 156 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: I've known Howard for a long time, you know, from 157 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties, and I ran into him, oh about 158 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: ten years ago, and we were out there doing sort 159 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: of TV shows in Germany and we're both being re 160 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 2: establishing ourselves as a new wave legends, you know, after 161 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: a long, illustrious career we both had. We were there, 162 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: you know, getting respect from I don't know, all over 163 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 2: the world. So it felt really good to kind of 164 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: go on the road in August September last year, ABC 165 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: and Howard Jones and the tour was a phenomenal success. 166 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 2: So we're doing it again in different parts of America 167 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: and head off to San Francisco next Thursday. Yeah, eighteen 168 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: eighteen dates eighteen, and then we had over finish in 169 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: Brooklyn and then across to Philadelphia. 170 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, Philly. 171 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 3: The New Romantic movement, it was a huge influence Ovius 172 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: and still is. How did you see ABC's role in 173 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 3: that movement? 174 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 2: Well, the New Romantics never really took off in America, 175 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: did they really. It was kind of a post for 176 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: in Britain. It was a post punk thing because punk 177 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: was massive less so in America in the late seventies, popular, 178 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: but not as you know, it was a big cultural thing. 179 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: So I'd say we were a bit post punk. We 180 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: came out and things were getting very minimal, and there 181 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 2: were loads of great, very art pop bands like Perubu 182 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 2: and Joy Division and The Cure. Like I say, all 183 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 2: these great bands. We do get described as New Romantic, 184 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: but I think there were other bands that were more 185 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: New Romantic than us. 186 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 187 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: We kind of came out in the early eighties wanting 188 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 2: to make people dance. We wanted to fuse the two 189 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: worlds of kind of the dance floor, and also the 190 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 2: bands that were kind of very intellectual, I suppose and 191 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 2: arty like Joy Division and The Cure and bands like that. 192 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: And then we go out to clubs and listen to 193 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: Sheic and sist of Sledge and earth Wind and Fire 194 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: and all those great R and B tunes. So we 195 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: definitely were all about fusing the two worlds together. And 196 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: fortunately for us, there was a whole generation that we're 197 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: coming through looking for an opportunity to get out and 198 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: dance and socialize and hit the clubs. So throughout the eighties, 199 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: the club scene was you know, it's pretty dramatic. Not 200 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 2: in every city, but in a lot of cities. That 201 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 2: was a big thing that was ticking away there for everybody, 202 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: you know, from Madonna to Prince to Michael Jackson, they 203 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: all benefit and Bruce Brankston, they all benefited from that 204 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: sort of club life as well as the rock world. 205 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:39,359 Speaker 4: Yeah. 206 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: So yeah, we came along and we wanted we were 207 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: we wanted to write songs that were quite emotional and romantic. 208 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 4: So I guess that's where the new romantic thing comes in. Yeah, 209 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 4: we're considered new wave in America. 210 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, but would you say it was by coastal in 211 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 3: America in terms of the popularity bases. 212 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we'd had a an album in Britain 213 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: and you know, everything was going our way. But we 214 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: wanted to conquer America, you know, like the Pretenders did 215 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: and the Police and Soft Cell at the time. So 216 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 2: we flew in and I remember first show we played 217 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 2: was in Phoenix on a Tuesday afternoon, our wet Tuesday 218 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two, and I stood there on stage 219 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: in my shiny gold lame suit and my kind of 220 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: diam antique tuxedo. We got the violins in the corner 221 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 2: and I realized the audience is just not ready for 222 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 2: us on a wet Tuesday night, you know. But fortunately 223 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 2: when we hit New York, yeah there was you know. 224 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: Andy Warhol came to the show and took us down 225 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: to the factory. And when we hit LA I remember 226 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: name dropping again. But Stevie Wonder came down. He'd heard 227 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: the Look of Love on what he called his local station, 228 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: and I just thought it was the one he listened to, 229 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: but I think he owned it. Called k J LH 230 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 2: Joy Love and Happiness, Kay Joy Love and Happiness. So 231 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: it was a matter of weeks really where we played 232 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: some very tough shows in the middle of America where 233 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 2: we were completely unknown and confusing. 234 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 4: The audience put it that way. 235 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: And then we played the you know in California and 236 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: in New York, and we realized there was an audience 237 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: for us. 238 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 4: But of course, then MTV took off. 239 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: Cable TV was getting kind of increasing as we spoke, 240 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 2: so people were picking up those cable TV subscriptions, and 241 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 2: suddenly MTV was a big influence on the music. Sin yeah, 242 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 2: kind of early eighties. 243 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 3: By the way, Stevie Wonder still owns that radio station. Sorry, yeah, yeah, cool, 244 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 3: he does, yeah yeah. So what inspired you to write 245 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 3: your autobiography at this at this point in your career. 246 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 2: Well, I mean a good I had a good point 247 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: in my career where I can pick and choose really 248 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 2: forty years on, it's wonderful. It's a privilege to get 249 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 2: on stage and sing the Look of Love or when 250 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: Smoky sings, and to really throw of energy into those shows. 251 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: It just felt right. I've avoided writing any sort of 252 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 2: memoir for a while, so I just figured it just 253 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: felt like the right time. On a whim, but it's yeah, 254 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 2: I kind of I wrote it, and then we brought 255 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: in a lot of photographs. It was many a really 256 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: big art book. It's not really that available in America. 257 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 2: So the art book's about this big wrapped in gold 258 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: lame mate. It's a bit of an art statement. And 259 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: there's a smaller book that you can have shipped, but 260 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: I'd like to get it distributed in America. Yeah, but 261 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: it just felt right to share some of the adventures 262 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: I've had, you know, in the world of like I'm 263 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: doing with you now in this conversation. 264 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it did feel like You're writing style is different 265 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 3: in terms of writing the autobiography than you're writing style 266 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 3: for songs. And is there anybody that influenced your writing 267 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 3: style for your autobiography? 268 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: You know, someone like Zady Smith or contemporary writers like 269 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: that who can handle comedy, humor, pathos, Martin Amos, people 270 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: like that, Saul Bellow. You know, there's loads of great writers, 271 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 2: but memoirs tend to be I don't like them when 272 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: the ghost written. To be honest with you, you know, 273 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: there's a lot of guys in bands just having ghosts written. 274 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: They start them on Tuesday and they finished on Thursday, 275 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: you know, because you want to know where the bodies 276 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: are buried, you know, that's the real thing deal. So 277 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 2: I don't know, really, it just kind of it felt 278 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: like a natural thing to write. 279 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it is kind of. 280 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: Nice to capture the flavor, but it's hard to capture 281 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 2: how you felt in nineteen eighty four, you know, because 282 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 2: it's a long time ago. I'm a different man now, obviously, 283 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: all these years on. But in a way I'd already 284 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: attempted that because I made an album called The Lexicon 285 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: of Love Too, which came out in Europe around about 286 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, where I kind of I was 287 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,479 Speaker 2: so buzzing from watching the audience's reaction. 288 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 4: To the shows. 289 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 2: I realized that a lot of people had, you know, 290 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 2: grown up with our songs, really got married to them, 291 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: maybe got divorced to another set of tunes, re mortgaged, remarried, 292 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: had kids, and life is really about the ups and 293 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 2: the downs, you know. 294 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 4: So I wrote an. 295 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: Album called with tracks like Viva Love on it, called 296 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: X kind Of Have Two, which kind of looked at 297 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: the world through my eyes as an older man. So yeah, 298 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: I kind of got used to looking at information how 299 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: it was back then, but how you perceive it now. 300 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 4: It's kind of an interesting way of working. Yeah. 301 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: Had you been journaling all through the years. 302 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 2: Early on no laptops? Of course, so I did. Yeah, 303 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: I'm a lyricist, so yeah, there's a lot of journals. 304 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: And with the book there's a kind of I gave 305 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: a lot of journals to the guy I was working 306 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: with on the book, and he kind of condensed it. 307 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: So there's some versions of songwriting journals. Yeah, and I 308 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: realized then that they're pretty psychotic, really, but you eventually 309 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: clamber up the side of the mountain and provide the song. 310 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of changes you go through, 311 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 2: scribbling out different things. I don't really write many journals 312 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: these days, but when I was a teenager, yeah, it 313 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: was my only friend. 314 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 315 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 2: That's why I'm a lead singer. Yeah, that's why I've 316 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 2: been chasing an audience ever since. 317 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,479 Speaker 4: Yeah. 318 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 3: And what's the feeling like to this day when you're 319 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 3: out performing and you're connecting with the audience and you 320 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 3: could kind of see the absolute joy they have and 321 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 3: seeing the performance. 322 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean our audience has changed developed. You know, 323 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: there are, like I say, there are guys who were 324 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 2: there from day one. There's a whole new generation coming 325 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: through interested in Spotify. But when I do look out 326 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: into the audience, I realized that music is a communal thing. 327 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 5: You know. 328 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 2: It's kind of in reggae talk about a sort of 329 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 2: universal consciousness. But I realized that those records were hits 330 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: that we had in the day because people celebrated them. 331 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 2: You know, it made sense to them, the guys at 332 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 2: the time. It meant something, you know what I mean. 333 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 2: It captured a little bit of the moment and I 334 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 2: never undervalue that. And to be able to stand on 335 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: a stage in twenty twenty five and see an audience 336 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: kind of you know, having a good time that is priceless. 337 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely nothing like it. Yeah yeah. 338 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 3: So if we were to get a peek at your. 339 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 5: Spotify collection, okay, yeah, your playlist, what would be on 340 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 5: there that would kind of intrigue us, surprise us or not? 341 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 4: I don't know. 342 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: I've been listening to a lot of Chill Out, so 343 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: a lot of Air the French band, But I was 344 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 2: listening to D'Angelo last night. Voodood' angelo is somebody who 345 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: intrigues me. He only made three albums, second Ones called Voodoo, 346 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: Third Ones, Black Messiah. But I like people that are 347 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: complete artists, everybody from Joni Mitchell through to Prince. 348 00:16:58,720 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 4: D'Angelo. 349 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just every single record he made, and he's 350 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: only made a few in a thirty year period, was incredible. Yeah, 351 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 2: I've been listening to a lot of jazz. I don't 352 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: know why I'm putting Spotify up. So moon sofar Ya 353 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: and my life loved, My wife loves shade, and I'm 354 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: sitting here in Barbados, so as twilight hits and the 355 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 2: light comes down, it just feels right to put on 356 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 2: your Love is King or something like that from Chardatt. Yeah, 357 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 2: but I listened to a lot of different things. Really, 358 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: what have I got hits, chill out classics, chill evening, 359 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 2: and jazz classics. I think that's a bit of Frank 360 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 2: Ocean in there. 361 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 3: Thanks for sharing that, and is that. 362 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 4: I don't know if that's surprising. 363 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 3: I'm not surprised. 364 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: When I was in New York last time, I kind 365 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 2: of got it for some reason, and I am out 366 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: by the ocean here, but. 367 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 4: I got into the yacht rock. 368 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 2: I kind of really went into the yacht rock phenomena 369 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 2: because I didn't really quite understand it. And you know, 370 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: I love Haul and Oates and Michael McDonald anyway, you know, 371 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: I got into the whole that sort of period, a 372 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: golden age for kind of Anglo Saxon writers back in 373 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: the mid seventies. Yeah, that was a kind of interesting period. 374 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: I love Steely Dan of course, you know. But I mean, anyway, 375 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 2: stop me. I like a lot of music. 376 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to stop you, but I do think. 377 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 2: Actually I watched last night. I watched that documentary. I 378 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: didn't think i'd like it about We Are the World? 379 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 4: Have you seen that. 380 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,719 Speaker 3: Document Yeah, the Biggest Night and Pop or whatever that. 381 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 2: I thought it was fascinating, absolutely intriguing some of the 382 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 2: things going on there in the room, the psychology of 383 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 2: it and everything else, and it made it reminded me 384 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: of a lot of the things I've done in the 385 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 2: studio in the sense of the way people go about 386 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: it and how vulnerable they are, you know, when the 387 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: track when they're making a record. And I have to 388 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: say it really really is an incredible documentary. Yeah, I 389 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 2: thought it was just going to be a piece of 390 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:57,719 Speaker 2: eighties nostalgia or you know, record company speak, but it 391 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: was kind of really cool. Yeah, really interesting. There was 392 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 2: a lovely moment where I loved it. When Smokey Robinson 393 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 2: turns around, he's got Stevie Wonder and you know, it's surreal. 394 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: Michael Jackson, he said, what the hell does that line mean? 395 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 2: You know, I forget which line it is. He says, 396 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: you know, we've got to keep giving to the charity, 397 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 2: and he kind of in just a phrase. Smokey Robinson, 398 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 2: he sold the puzzle of the record. He made it 399 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 2: make sense. 400 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? 401 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 2: I love that those magic Smokey Robinson. Later in the interview, 402 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 2: he said, well, that's how we treated each other at Motown. 403 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 2: He's talking to you know, they are legends, but at 404 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 2: the same time he's talking to guys like Stevie Wander, 405 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 2: Michael Jackson, guys who they all came up together, you know, 406 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 2: in the studios, and you're only as good as your 407 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 2: next record, as everybody knows. So, yeah, it was phenomenal. 408 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 2: There were so many great moments in that documentary. Yeah. 409 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 4: I was very surprised, very surprised. 410 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 3: I love the Bob Dylan parts, by the way. 411 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the Bob Dylan they saved to the end 412 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 2: and you thought Dylan was going. 413 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 4: To blow it didn't you because he's he's he's. 414 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 2: Kind, it's five in the morning, six in the morning, 415 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: and then he just in four lines, he just sums up. 416 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 4: Why is it great? You know? 417 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: It's singing For me watching that documentary, it was about singing, 418 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 2: how everybody approaches singing in different ways, very different ways. 419 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 420 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 2: I do listen to a lot of Dylan too. I 421 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 2: don't know why. I'm looking forward to seeing the film 422 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 2: as well, the biopic. 423 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 424 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 3: Well, as you experiment with genres throughout your career, is 425 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 3: there a genre that you haven't experimented with that you'd 426 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 3: like to. 427 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, You've got to be tricky with the genres now 428 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 2: because a lot of it's appropriation. You know, sometimes I 429 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 2: listen to a bit of Edsheer and I think, yeah, 430 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 2: you know, you've heard a couple of Afro pop tunes 431 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 2: and you've kind of thrown it in that its a 432 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 2: good effect, not you know, millions and millions of people 433 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: love that. 434 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 4: No, these days, when I write a song. 435 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: I go for the heart of it, to see what 436 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 2: it's all about, the kind of rather than saying, right, 437 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: you know, let's be let's go reggae or you know, 438 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: let's go Flamenco. But I mean inevitably, when you listen 439 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: to music, it just seeps in, doesn't it. It always has done. 440 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 2: That's how all different types of music is created. Yeah, 441 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 2: so I don't know. No, I'm an older statesman of 442 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 2: pop now, so the next stuff I do is just 443 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 2: going to be classic ABC. 444 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 445 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: I've been down a few blind alleys and different twists 446 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: and turns artistically through the earth. So it's kind of 447 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 2: nice to know what I like. 448 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to close with something that I so 449 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 3: admire about you. It's been your your transparency about you know, 450 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 3: health challenges and you know battles. Yeah, and we produce 451 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 3: this other podcast it's called Music Save Me, which talks 452 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 3: about sort of the powers of music. Yeah, and so 453 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 3: first of all, how are you able to be so 454 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 3: transparent about those challenges? And then do you believe that 455 00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 3: music has healing powers? 456 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's funny when you say music saves me. 457 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: I had a fancy called Modern Drugs, and it was 458 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 2: all about the music and all about the bands i'd 459 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 2: go and see in the late seventies. You know, I 460 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 2: was just a kid, but I realized then, and I 461 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: realized much later that music's a therapy. 462 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 4: Music is the medium. 463 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 2: It's the kind of paintbrush on the art. But it's 464 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 2: like also, it's like medicine. Yeah, as you say medicine. 465 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 2: When I was twenty seven, many years ago, I was 466 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 2: diagnosed with the Hodgkin's disease of lymphona cancer and I 467 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: had to have chemotherapy and radio therapy and some operations 468 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: and stuff, and it kind of hit me at a 469 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 2: time when I was kind of top of the charts, 470 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: you know. It kind of brought me back down to 471 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: earth with a violent shadow. And I talk to you 472 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 2: now about it because not as a spokesperson for cancer 473 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 2: or anything like that, that would be arrogant, because I 474 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: realized that you walk into any bar and there's maybe 475 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 2: three or four people or more who've been touched by 476 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: a cancer in their family or friends or their immediate 477 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: group of prooblem So it's tough for me as a 478 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: young man having to face up to that. And I've 479 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: fully recovered through the treatment I had at the Royal 480 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: Marsden Hospital in London and up in Sheffield at the 481 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 2: Hallamshire Hospital. But yeah, and at the time I went 482 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 2: back to my seven inch vinyl collection I'd come in 483 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: from the hospital treatments and that's where a song called 484 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 2: when Smokey Sings came from, which was a very big 485 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 2: hit for us. But it's about that feeling of euphoria 486 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 2: you get when you hear a great piece of music 487 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 2: or great artist you love, and how it can just 488 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 2: take you away from your troubles. You pack up your 489 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,479 Speaker 2: troubles and they all kip that. But I don't know 490 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: to answer your question. For a long time, I would 491 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 2: I mean, I went underground. 492 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 4: There's a what happens is you think of it as 493 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 4: a curse. 494 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 2: Oh man, I got ill, and then you kind of 495 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 2: think you feel guilty because you're letting people down and 496 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 2: stuff part of the thought process. But as you recover 497 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 2: and you get fit, you realize it is a blessing 498 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 2: and you're here to cherish every day, you know. But 499 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 2: it was good to come out the other side and recover, 500 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 2: you know, get a chick in the box after a year, 501 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: after five years, after ten years at the hospital. But 502 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: back then, yeah, I didn't want to tell anyone really well. 503 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,479 Speaker 2: It was hard, very hard, because in the music business 504 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 2: you're like a pedigree race horse, you know, and as 505 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 2: soon as the label found out that I wasn't fully fit, 506 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 2: They'd come around to my house and see what, you know, 507 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: look at my teeth, see if I could still jump 508 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 2: the hurdles for them. Put me on me and Mark 509 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: White on a like a monthly wage, and see what's happened. 510 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: Because nobody knew what was around the corner. And that 511 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: stuff is really hard to deal with. He's taking me 512 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 2: years to deal with that. I was pissed off about it, 513 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 2: but now I realized everything was a blessing. 514 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, it really was. 515 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 2: And now I realize even though there's a lot of 516 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 2: opportunities that I couldn't take up. You know, one minute 517 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: I'm doing soul training in America and the next Tina 518 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 2: Turner saying come on the road with us. 519 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 4: Couldn't do it. I couldn't do this. 520 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 2: To tour with Tina Turner because it was I just 521 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,239 Speaker 2: had too much hospital treatment. Now I realize that's why 522 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: I can climb on a stage and really deliver a 523 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: show in twenty twenty five. Yeah, I'm catching up. 524 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 4: I love it. 525 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 3: I love it. 526 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 2: However, nothing that's forever, does it. I mean, I'm getting 527 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: you know, but as soon as you know, you can't 528 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 2: deliver a killer show. 529 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 4: You stop. Yeah, definitely, So whilst it's wils I can sing. 530 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 4: I'll sing keep delivering killer shows. 531 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 3: On the twenty twenty five tour with mister Howard Jones. Yeah, 532 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 3: and it's so tremendous. And congrats on the lexicon of life. 533 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,239 Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, cool, the lexicon of Thanks you very much, 534 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 4: but thank you. 535 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 3: I enjoyed talking to you and taking a walk. Thank you, 536 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 3: my friend. 537 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 4: I shall say lout to Howard when I see him 538 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 4: next week. Please do say please do it? Yeah cool, 539 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 4: Thank you Martin. 540 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 541 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 542 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 543 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 544 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.