WEBVTT - Governors Talk Affordability; AI Complicates Dating 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:10.200 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to the Bloomberg 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:15.960 This Weekend podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini, and Lisa Matteo. 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.600 Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:21.000 the show. 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.479 You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:25.800 the podcast, and also make sure to join us live 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.960 every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at seven am Easter. 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:32.800 We're on Bloomberg Television, Radio and the Bloomberg Business App, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:37.640 bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:41.000 lifestyle and culture. 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:43.640 Now for our exclusive sit down interview with the heads 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:47.840 of the National Governors Association. Two Republicans, two Democrats, two 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.040 ten gallon hats between the four of them, joining Bloomberg 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.920 this weekend on Saturday to announce a bipartisan task force 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:54.840 designed to tackle immigration reform. 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:56.080 I will say they did share the hats at our 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.520 previous clip. Governor Spencer Cox of you Tap, Wesmore of Maryland, 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.720 Kevin did of Oklahoma, and Matt Meyer of Delaware. 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:03.000 Take a listen. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.680 We get elected. We always say that the governors really 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:13.560 can't be that partisan, because potholes aren't partisan. We actually 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.280 get judged by what we accomplish. We get held accountable 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.559 for that. So unlike Congress, we have to do those things. 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.720 And there's this cool thing we're celebrating America to fifty. 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.119 But the way our country. 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.959 Was set up, most of the power was left to 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.600 the states, not to the federal government. That's certainly changed 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:32.920 over the years. Unfortunately, we think that that's one of 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:37.200 the problems. But here's I think why this really matters 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.720 and should matter to all Americans is that we are 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.520 the laboratories of democracy. So if a blue state comes 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:45.760 up with a new policy that solves a problem in 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.680 their state, I'm going to steal that. 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:50.400 I want the best for my people. It goes the 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:51.000 other way around. 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.880 We were just talking about Mississippi today and they're reading scores, 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:56.040 the third grade reading scores. 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:57.080 They went from forty. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.560 Nine to top ten, and all of us looked around 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.360 and said, hey, yeah, what is Mississippi doing. We should 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.360 copy that. And so almost all of us, I think, 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.520 have adopted some portion of Mississippi's policies around the science 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.880 of reading. That's why governors and mayors are I think 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:13.600 more popular. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.840 There's a little more trust. Although we're all struggling with 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:17.480 that right now. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.280 But we're lucky to have these events where we can 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:21.560 get together and learn from each other. 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:23.640 I can tell you I took it a step further 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.640 where we saw what was happening in Mississippi. We didn't 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.320 just copy the model. We actually told our superintendent who's 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.359 now the superintendent of the state of Maryland. So it's 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:33.640 now becoming the Maryland model. 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.120 I don't know if I want to encourage that. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.480 No poaching people, guys, everybody playing nice in the sandbox 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.679 governors did when you talk to constituents, what is the 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.320 number one issue, number one or two issues that they 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:51.760 talked to you about? And have you found when you 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:53.520 go to the NNGA, when you talk to your colleagues 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.080 that those are common pretty much about across all the 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:56.920 states right now? 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.160 Yeah, I mean I tell people all the time and 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:04.440 every year of my I've been governor now for eight 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:05.919 years and it hasn't changed. 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.560 I mean, I believe that whether you live in rural. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.919 Oklahoma or urban Oklahoma, you want the same thing, whether 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.160 you're Republican or Democrat, you really want the best education 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.160 for your kids, the best opportunity. 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:18.320 I want to make sure I put my. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.800 Kids in the best situation possible so. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:22.240 They can chase their American dream. 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.080 I want the best access to healthcare. I want the 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.959 best roads and bridges and infrastructure and utility cost. And 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.239 then I want the best economy. I want wages to growth. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.280 I want opportunities for upward mobility. And so those four 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.160 things are non political, and I always tell Oklahomas, Hey, 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.640 let DC play politics. We're all Oklahomas. Let's make Oklahoma 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:44.480 top ten. And so I focus on those things. And 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.280 I don't think it's any different when I meet with 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.880 my colleagues around the country. They're dealing with the exact 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:53.360 same things in their state. So it's those four things 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:54.160 I always focus on. 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:58.280 People are starving for government that delivers, for people that delivers. 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.360 There's so much nonsense out there, not just in politics 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.920 and government, but everywhere, and I think people are just 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.800 looking for people they elect to roll up their sleeves 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.680 and get actual, real work done to help educate their kids, 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.600 deal with childcare, the costs that I have three kids, 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.560 one more on the way, and the costs are skyrocketing. 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.040 Making sure when you go and get gas it's affordable, 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.039 and so that's really what we're spending time on all day. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.160 You look at the national news and things people are 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.920 fighting about. Most of what we do our kitchen table issues, 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:30.760 just trying to make life a little bit easier for 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.560 the people that live in our respective states. 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.680 I would just add the price of housing is a 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:36.360 big piece of that. 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.400 That's when we hear you do energy too. 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.359 Yeah, all of the consumer costs, that's huge for all 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:42.000 of us. 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:42.480 That's funny. 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:44.080 I was actually just going to say, so obviously, I'm 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.120 here in New York. I moved here recently, and I 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.000 talked about on the show a lot. Everything here is 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.520 insane expensive. But I grew up in Colorado. And I 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:52.479 was talking to a friend who was a very different 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.440 life than me earlier this week, and she was saying 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:56.400 the same things I was dealing with. She was like, 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.800 we've gotten to a place in our lives we always 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:00.560 wanted to be. My husband and I are making the 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.560 money we always wanted to and we feel like we 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.279 can't afford even the basic things. So governor more, I 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.320 want to start with you, but what is your plan 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.000 to tackle affordability? How are you going to tackle this? 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:12.479 And then I brought it out to the group. What 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.279 are you guys doing to bring these prices down. 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.560 Well, I think one thing that all the governors recognize 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.080 is that, you know, we wish we could control the 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.760 price of gas, you know that, but that's not something 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:26.239 that governors control. 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:26.520 You know. 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.400 We know we are seeing how nationwide the price of 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.040 gas has just skyrocket over the over the past twelve weeks. 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.040 We see how, you know, we wish we could control. 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:37.320 The price of groceries. 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.320 Unfortunately, we're now seeing how inflation is the highest that 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.640 it's been in three years, and so you're watching the 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.880 price of groceries continue to go up. And so there 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.960 are certain factors that that as governors, we don't control 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.400 the fact that things continue to rise, but we can 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:51.880 control the things we can control. 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:53.360 So, for example, when. 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.200 We're talking about best practices that we've seen and that 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.000 as other states we've also brought on board. You know, 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.920 we actually in Maryland we pass legislation that deals with 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.000 the issue of price manipulation at supermarkets, where you know, 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.520 supermarkets and big supermarket chains cannot use your data against 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.200 you when you walk into a supermarket and increase the 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.000 prices because they know that you will pay for the 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.720 increased prices. So we are the first state to actually 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.440 ban price manipulation that when it came to things like 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.560 rising energy prices that we're all wrestling with, you know, 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.840 in our state, and I know other states have done 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.720 the same. We've now put one hundreds of dollars back 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.640 in the pockets of our people in Maryland. You know, 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.159 it's three hundred million dollars that we've now put back 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.480 to the people of Maryland to deal with these rising 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.360 energy prices. And so we're making sure we can control 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.880 the things we can control, making historic investments in childcare, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.400 as Matt was talking about, because that is one of 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.840 the largest costs that families are dealing with, whether they're 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.159 now having to choose between are my kids going to 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:50.599 be okay? 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.880 Or can I go back into the workforce. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:55.960 And so we're making sure as governors that while we 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.640 cannot control a lot of the dynamics that are existing 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.640 within our states, the things that we can control to 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:03.960 make life a little bit easier for the people of 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.720 our states, we can and we will. 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.240 Does anybody else want to get to anything any other 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.960 specific policies that y'all want to highlight that you are 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.880 trying to do, either on housing or I know, energy 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.200 is a big concern, especially with data centers going in 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.640 a bunch of places, food costs, childcare, of any of 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:21.920 the policies that come to mind that you're trying to 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:23.200 enact in your states. 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.440 Well, you know, I think we all want to do 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:29.920 all right, keep. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.800 Going down the road. But you're grown up, so you 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:33.080 can figure out. All right, thanks guys. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:37.400 Good Well, I would just say on housing, we're all 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.480 dealing with affordability. We want you know, home ownership is 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.240 so important. My whole career has been in the mortgage 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.360 business and banking and promoting home ownership and strengthening families 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.080 and how important that is to own homes. And so 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.520 when you see that cost rising and you see people 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.840 delaying housing, perching the first house so they're in their thirties, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.280 Now what is that? Well, if you believe in economics, 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.920 I believe it's a it's a supply problem, right, So 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.120 how do we get more houses built? Some of that 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.720 is zoning problems. We're not allowing more developers. To me, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.880 it's always over regulation, right, So we passed a built 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:15.520 to encourage zero interest loans to developers to develop more houses. 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.000 And then for that they had to produce affordable houses 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.760 for the working families. The Build Act that we did 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:29.840 allows developers now to burden the cost of utilities, infrastructure 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.520 as far as water sewage instead of back on to 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.880 the municipality. So we're doing everything we can to encourage 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.720 more supply coming in. It's already we're already very affordable 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.600 in Oklahoma, and we're getting tremendous economic development. 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:43.600 But we want we want more. 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.360 We want to unleash the UH, the innovation of companies 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.319 to go meet the demands of Americans. And I think 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.920 that's the best policy, just a free market approach. 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:53.200 Governor Meyer. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.800 One of the big things that we were just talking 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.440 about with the big costs is energy, and energy costs 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.880 are really going up, and we're seeing that coincide, of course, 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.679 with these big data centers that are going in all 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:04.680 across the country. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:06.960 I'm wondering if you are hearing from your. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.480 Constituents that they are concerned about AI, they are concerned 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.800 about the energy draw of these data centers, and what 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:13.160 you're doing about that in your state. 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:16.199 I am hearing a lot. 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.600 I think all of us are hearing a lot about 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.520 data centers and the concerns about AI. They run the 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:27.360 gamut from security concerns, privacy concerns, environmental concerns, and wealth 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.160 inequality concerns, and. 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.319 I think each of us have a different approach. 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.200 We're looking to attract employers in Delaware, where in my 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.120 first eighteen months in office, we've been very successful doing that. 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.280 But I've also been very clear that if you're going 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.400 to negatively impact our environment, if you're going to increase 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.400 rate payers energy bills by a single penny, then we're 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.080 not going to have you here. So we're putting in 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.000 place rules, we're about to finalize them, about to sign 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.520 some legislation that does just that, that says, hey, if 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.200 you want a data center or anything like that in 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.120 our community, you have to come with. 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.160 Benefit for the community. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:05.760 I think a number of us that are doing behind 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.280 the meter policies where kind of bring your own energy. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.839 If you bring your own energy and you're not drawing 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.040 from the grid, it's much easier to get a pathway. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.920 I think we also understand that data centers and AI 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.520 at some level is a national economic and security imperative. 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:23.720 We cannot let China win on this one. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.760 We have to make sure that our respective states aren't 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.679 blocking each other and blocking things so that we as 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.160 a country cannot move forward. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.840 All right, gentlemen, we're running a little short on time. 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.520 I really appreciate you taking time. Before I let you go, 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.199 I do want to play a game. So if everybody 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.120 could please raise your hand like this. Wait, I have 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:42.040 to find my camera here. 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:43.920 Put your hand up. We're going to do. Put a 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:44.520 finger down. 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:46.520 If I'm sure you have children or have been on 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.600 the internet and you understand how this works, all right, 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.360 you ready, Please put a finger down. If you are 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.719 concerned about affordability in your state. 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:55.960 Put a figure down. If you're concerned. 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.520 Yeah, if you're concerned about affordability in a state, put 0:10:58.559 --> 0:10:59.320 one of your fingers down. 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:00.360 Please put a finger down. 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.680 If you have released a book in the past year, 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.120 or planning to release a book in the coming year. 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.520 All right, that's two out of the floor. Put a 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:14.000 finger down. 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.120 If you're going to Iowa this year or in the 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:17.120 next cycle. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.280 Iowa, old meyer. 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.480 Yeah, the gentleman from Delaware has put a finger down. 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:28.240 And finally, please put a finger down. 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.040 We're just going to New Hampshire. 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:37.079 New Hampshire also counts. Okay, dream my final question of 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.800 the day, Please put a finger down. Gentlemen, if you 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:44.200 are running for president in twenty twenty eight. 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.880 I'm looking. I'm looking all right. 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:51.240 No one committed, no one committed. Thank you for being 0:11:51.240 --> 0:12:00.640 good sports. I appreciate it. Thank you again with the task. 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.560 I have to say, though, I'm the only one of 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.400 this group who actually has a reelection in less than 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.240 one hundred days, So I'm sweating a whole lot more 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:11.960 than than my friends are here. 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:12.400 That's all right. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.079 If it's a little hot, friends can let you borrow 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:15.559 a hat. 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:17.440 Gentlemen, Thank you so much. 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:19.800 I have a great time with the stockyards. We really 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:21.200 appreciate you joining us today. 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.560 Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend right 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:41.840 after this. As artificial intelligence becomes ingrained in everyday life, 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.720 disagreements over the technology are increasingly becoming disagreements over values and. 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.199 The latest Bloomberg Forecast newsletter, Bloomberg News contributor Josie Cox 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:55.160 explores how AI adoption is dividing friends, families, and coworkers, writing, 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.079 researchers have only just begun to study AI social consequences, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.839 and there's little impair work examining whether attitudes or the 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.839 technology are becoming part of people's identities. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:06.920 I have opinions about that, but I will leave them 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:07.520 to the expert. 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.640 But interviews with the ai skeptics suggest that for some people, 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:12.880 AIUS has become a proxy for values. 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:14.000 Josie Cox joins us. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:15.400 Now she sells with the author, I should save the 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.360 book Women, Money Power, The Rise and Fall of Economic Equality. 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:22.880 Great to have you with us. Let's start with this disagreement. 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.000 We can maybe not to how popular this has become 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:26.400 and how we're all kind of fumbling through. And I 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.000 think we can acknowledge that what did you find as 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.240 you dug into this in terms of what the personal 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.960 or interpersonal ramifications of this are thus far. 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.640 Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean everyone is familiar, of course, 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.400 with the headlines of just the meteoric rise of ai 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.280 It's doing everything for us. It's in our work lives, 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:46.440 our personal lives, in our bedrooms, it's everywhere. But what 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.280 I have generally found really interesting is the ways in 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.360 which it's exacerbating divides. Initially I was reporting on the 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.840 gender gap that it was potentially exacerbating men more apt 0:13:57.920 --> 0:13:59.720 to use it. They are more apt to use it. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.520 Bloomberg a couple of years ago really kind of the 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.959 in the sort of beginnings of AI dominance, showing that 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.040 there was actually quite a stark divide between used rates 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.520 among women and use rates among men. The gap has 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.960 closed a little bit, but that really sort of planted 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:19.000 the seed of interest, and since then I've been interested in, 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.600 you know, ways in which AI is not only uniting 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.800 us but also dividing us. And so this story really 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.440 came from sort of anecdotal evidence and conversations that I 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.280 was happening with people in my life who were sort 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.040 of vehemently anti AI, and I just thought it was 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.040 really interesting because a lot of people have different reasons 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.200 for being anti AI, for being sort of AI refused 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.120 and ex as I like to call them, you know, 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.960 be that the environment or ethical concerns, or in the 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.440 creative industries, a lot of people are concerned about copyright 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.520 things like that, but ultimately they all sort of tend 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.640 to kind of congregate around this idea of it being 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.400 a bit of an identity, right, and it's sort of 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.960 a you know, as I was reporting the story, I 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.600 realize that it was almost tribal. It was like us 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.480 versus them. Interesting, and I just think it's fascinating to 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:10.080 kind of consider as AI continues to dominate, continues to 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:15.000 infiltrate our lives, what that will ultimately mean for workplaces, families, relationships, 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:15.360 et cetera. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.400 I am one of those people who gets very surprised 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.600 by the people in my life who have started relying 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.360 on AI so quickly, especially people my age and like, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.600 as we've managed to make it our whole lives without 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.600 having your computer tell you how to get on the 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.240 subway or what to order it dinner. And the people 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:35.160 who adopt it, even people in creative industries, people who 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.960 it's threatening their livelihood, are adopting it in a way 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:40.800 that I think counteracts. 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:41.400 All the rest of their values. 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.760 But I personally get really upset. I was at dinner 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:45.680 the other day and we needed to google something, and 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.640 my friend picked up his phone and said, hey, chat, 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:49.120 just google it. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.160 But like, what do I care? You know what I mean? 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:52.640 Why is it so emotionally interesting? 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:54.680 I think the reason one of the reasons that's so 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.480 emotional is because a lot of the uses of AI 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.520 that we're resorting to to do with communication, right, and 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:05.160 communication is something that is so personal. One of the academics, 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.320 so I spoke to who's a sociologist and who kind 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.920 of studies political divides, which is sort of a good 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.040 corollary for this. Said that, there's a lot of AI 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:18.200 skepticism around communications that should be personal, like wedding vowels, right, 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.600 like birthday greetings. 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.400 Or dating as people are like having their dating asks 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:23.360 just talk to each other. 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:25.960 The messages are completely AI generated. 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.680 Right, and communication is one of the most personal things 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:31.960 that we rely on and one of the most sort 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.480 of personal building blocks of our lives. So if we're 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:36.640 relying on a machine to do that, you know, what 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:38.920 does that tell us about the state of humanity? 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.600 Quite frankly, we stuck with this agentic setup that's happening. 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:43.160 Yeah, it's terrifying. 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:47.120 They've like programs, you know, prompt responses because you know, 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:49.560 but it is a quite exhausting process. 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.600 A lot on the subject of dating. You cite in 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.880 your piece here a survey by the dating app Hillys 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.160 that right, I think, so sixty four gen z fifty 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.200 six percent of millennial dators say they would not date 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.119 someone who relies on AI for everyday decisions. Here, we 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.120 do have some empirical evidence, at least there's a survey 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.040 that's taken place here. We have some data here, but 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:11.760 what does that tell you just about the way that 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:13.760 like lines are being drawn even preemptively? 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:15.800 I think, yeah, well, I think you know, to your point, 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.000 empirical data is scant. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.000 Right now, even about you know, economic impact. 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.439 Or all that were kind of so I am completely 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:24.320 I had a cast around for this, right, but I 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.640 thought this was a really interesting data point. The other 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:28.359 thing I should say about it is that this is 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.040 cause people who are saying sure that they feel this 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.639 way about AI, right, whether they're actually acting on it 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.399 is another thing. This is the same as you know, 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.639 the perennial issue with political polling, right. But I think 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.840 what it does tell us is that there is a 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.400 bit of a backlash, right Obviously, you know, as we're 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.320 saying at the beginning of this conversation, the rise has 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.679 been absolutely meteoric, and I think that there is a 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.439 sort of hankering for personal connection amid this AI era 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.320 that we're all finding ourselves in. So I'm hopeful that 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.920 we'll get more empirical data on this. Stanford is to 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.440 some good research on this. We also had some I 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.520 came across some data for the piece showing that skepticism 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.119 or lack of trust in AI is rising at a 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:15.000 pretty rapid clip globally, with some regional differences, But over 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.960 the last sort of three four years, distrust in AI 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.000 has actually risen by about ten percentage points, which is 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:26.600 a remarkable rate of increase for anything really. So you know, 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.520 let's see what the next generation does and what the 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:30.320 dynamics look like. 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:31.439 There, well quickly before we let you go. 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.680