WEBVTT - Intel Has No Easy Options After Long, Stinging Fall From Grace 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:07.240 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.880 This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.640 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.840 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:25.800 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:28.800 Let's get to one of the most read stories on 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.280 the Bloomberg about a really important company in our world. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.280 It's about the slow motion disaster at one of those 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:36.840 most important companies in the modern tech industry. It's reaching 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.000 a pivotal moment this week, so writes Ian King, Bloomberg 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.480 News US semiconductor and networking reporter, in today's Bloomberg Big Take, 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:45.600 which you can read on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:47.000 dot com slash Big Take. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.480 Yeah. In they're out speaking of property issues San Francisco. 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:52.519 He's there in our San Francisco bureau. Ian I got 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.720 to say, first of all, great story. We've been talking 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.920 with you about the decline for Intel. I feel like 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.279 more than a year, more than two years. It's been 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:01.960 a while. We talk about this a lot. It feels 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.320 like though it's coming to a head as you report. 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:06.480 Tell us about the meetings that have been going on 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:07.920 with Intel's board this week. 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.640 Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to be precise 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:15.200 about our understanding of these meetings. These meetings that are 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.080 going on, our board meetings. They're not the kind of 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.959 barbarians at the gate, we're going to throw the management 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:24.720 out type meetings yet, but they are considering basically what 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.520 Intel should be doing, what perhaps it shouldn't be doing, 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.760 in order to kind of martial resources to continue to 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:37.240 try to fund this expansive plan that they have going forward. Clearly, 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.440 its business operations are not able to do that right now. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.919 As we saw with its recent earnings release, things were 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.880 considerably worse, and I think a lot of people had expected, 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.520 including the management, And so really what this meeting is 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.640 doing is trying to sort of get that track back 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.720 on plan rather than potentially throw it out the window. 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.320 So I give us context here about just how precarious 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.800 Intel's finances are right now, help us understand that. 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.280 Yeah, I mean, it's very simple. They are trying to 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.520 spend an enormous amount of money at a time when 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.840 they do not have that money coming in from their operations. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.320 Right that what they were good at and what they 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.600 are still quite good at isn't paying like it used to. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:23.279 They have fifty. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:27.320 Billion dollars in debt, They're losing money, they have negative 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.240 cash flow, and they need to spend and continue to 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.000 spend over a number of years on projects that probably 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:34.840 won't pay off for a number of years. It's a 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:36.320 very difficult situation to be in. 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:38.280 Yeah, kind of amazing that this is what we're talking 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:42.160 about in conjunction with Intel. Hey, another stark metric is 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.320 the share price. It was once nearly a seventy five 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.320 dollars a share stock. It's now below twenty a share. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.960 It's down more than sixty percent year to date, ninety 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.480 percent gain though last year it got above fifty dollars 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.079 this year, So that's a big swing in about a 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.560 year or so. What are the ongoing disappointments? What are 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.000 the hopes and possible pivots of this company that keeps 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.960 it going for I don't know, years to come. 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.799 Yeah, I mean the share price I think has contributed 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.200 to a lot of the speculation that we're seeing about. 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:13.440 You know, where the company goes and who might be 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.160 interested and is it affordable as a purchase. There's a 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.519 lot of that going on outside of Intel. But to 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.919 answer your question more directly, they need a win. They 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.679 need a big customer for their foundry, their outsourced chip 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.639 making effort that they're trying to get off the ground. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.400 They need some of these products that have been absolute 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:37.000 dominant to return towards that to stop losing market share. 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.960 They need this massive AI spend that we're seeing to 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.680 look in their direction right now. That's just not the. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.280 Case in the US government. Part of the story in 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.560 recent years as well, with the Biden administration. You know, 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.480 the idea is that they're going to give billions of 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.080 dollars to Intel help us understand the position of the 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.320 US government and where they stand in this. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.000 Yeah, two aspects to that, And I think that's a 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.960 very ger main question. All of the scenarios that are 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.040 being floated outside of Intel about where it might be going, 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:09.800 or who might buy it, or how it might. 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:10.280 Be split up. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:15.160 The US government regards Intel as a strategic asset, that 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:19.200 its technology is fundamentally important to this country. So all 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.280 of those scenarios, and they are just scenarios at this point, 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.160 would have to go through Washington, and Washington is going 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.040 to take a very very critical look at those. So 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.520 that adds a layer of complication, takes away from the 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:34.000 standard Wall Street playbook in a lot of respects. And 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:35.839 the other side of that is you mentioned the money 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.800 that we are paying as taxpayers for Intel. It's not enough, right, 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.560 It's helpful. It cuts out some of the differential in 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:49.200 terms of what it costs Intel's overseas competitors to put 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:53.840 plants in the ground, and hopefully makes it, you know, 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.719 a level playing field. But it doesn't. It's not a bailout. 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:58.800 It's not the kind of money that Intel needs. We're 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.520 talking about ten of billions of dollars a year, over 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:04.800 multiple years, just to play in this game. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.839 Hey, in one thing, I wonder in your story you 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.440 take a look back at what happened to Intel and 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.279 why we got to this point where we're having this 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.080 conversation with you today, why you wrote this story today. 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:16.880 Having said that, you also note in your story that 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.440 it didn't have to come to this. Is there anything 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.800 Intel can learn by looking backward in terms of where 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:24.279 it needs to go forward? 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:25.279 Yeah? 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.800 I mean, well, that's why Pat Gelsinger was brought in. 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.720 That was a step backwards. He left Intel to become 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.720 the VMware CEO at the height of its powers. His 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:38.680 plan was to do what Intel's good at, leading manufacturing, 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.120 have products that just are so good that people have 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.600 to pay through the nose for them. That's his plan. 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.720 That requires a lot of money. So that's what he's 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.000 tried to go back to. But things have moved on 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:55.640 since then. Competitors like TSMC, like Nvidia are now very strong, 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.440 have the kind of dominance, have the kind of cloud 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.680 that Intel used to have. So he's trying to you know, 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.080 he's trying to play the greatest hits at a time 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.799 when music cases have moved on. 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.800 One thing, I do wonder if AI for a year 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.760 and a half ago, you know, Microsoft didn't do you know, 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:17.920 their investment in open AI and touchypt if that hadn't happened, 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:19.520 and I know it's not a good way to do this, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.320 but if it hadn't happened, would you have written this 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:26.040 story about Intel being at kind of a critical juncture? 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.560 Would we not be having this conversation. Is it just 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:32.200 AI or it's something much more systemic in the Intel 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.440 culture that is just kind of brought about its problems. 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:37.960 I would say that that's a very good question, and 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:42.880 it's a mixture of the two. The AI opportunity has 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:48.919 in shareholders' minds in technology, technology, and his mind has 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:54.440 concentrated just how important and useful technology other than Intel's 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.760 is right, And this was an opportunity that Intel should 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.480 have taken and would have given it more time, would 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.960 have given it more resources to be able to devote 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.400 to putting some of these other things right. So it's 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.080 a mixture of the two. It's definitely an accelerant, but 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.800 it's not the root cause. The root cause are decisions 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.920 that were made by Pat Gelsinger's predecessors, decisions that have 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:20.000 turned out to have been terrible decisions. And indeed that's 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:21.640 how he's characterized them. 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.680 It's hard to ask you a question in about what 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:26.680 things look like in the future, but help us imagine 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:31.200 a scenario. Is there one where a storied company like 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.880 Intel just doesn't exist in a few years. 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.920 I mean the conversations that I've been having with people 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.720 who look at the company, who have invested in the company, 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.280 some of them who don't invest in the company. That 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.480 is what it's come to. That it's the oh dear moment, 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:50.240 shall we say, And even for that to be even 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.560 a vague consideration around a company that just ruled the 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:57.960 world like Intel did is frankly shocking. You've got to remember, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.559 I think the perfect illustrate of that is twenty twenty 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.520 one was not long ago. They had three times as 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.760 much total revenue as in Nvidia, and look where we 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:08.280 are now. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.000 That's an incredible decline right when you think about their business. 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.360 Ian is always great stuff, and I know we continue 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.280 to talk about this company and we'll continue to see 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.760 what the next chapter brings when it comes to Intel. 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.280 All right, so appreciate it, Ian King, Thank you. Thank you, 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.520 US semiconductor networking reporter at Bloomberg News out there in 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:28.840 our San Francisco bureau. By the way, this is among 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.920 the most read stories on the Bloomberg and it is 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.200 the Bloomberg Big Take, which you can check out on 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.920 the Bloomberg terminal at Bloomberg dot com slash Big Take. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.160 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.439 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.160 on applecar Play and then Bright Auto with a Bloomberg 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.839 Business app or wants us live on YouTube. 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.080 All right, let me throw out one metric I guess 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.199 I kind of got to do this. The global sportsware 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.800 market size valued it nearly four hundred and thirteen billion 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.120 dollars in twenty twenty two, estimated to reach nearly one 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.480 hundred forty nine billion by twenty thirty one. And listen, 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:05.360 there's a lot of players in it and looking to 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.920 take a share of it. Is a partnership. Our next 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.120 two guests, both with brands that are very well known 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.400 now with a combined brand known as Greatness Wins. 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.400 So let's get to the interview with more joining us 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.520 here in the studio. The founder of Vuantucket, who came 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.720 up with the idea for his casual shirts while working 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.120 at GE Healthcare. Chris Ricobono back with us, also with 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.600 US Hall of Fame shortstop and five time World Series 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.960 champion with the New York Yankees, also an e commerce 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:33.720 investor to Derek Jeter, both here in the Bloomberg BusinessWeek studio. Okay, guys, 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:38.000 first up, we want to know how you guys got together. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.000 How did this come together? Who called who, who had 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.080 the idea for who to get involved? How did it 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:42.480 come out? 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:44.640 That's a good question. You start. We'll see what version 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:45.120 comes out. 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:48.280 I was going to say Derek reached out to me, 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.000 but that's not how it worked. So I over the pandemic. 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.720 I was looking to solve another problem in the fashion industry, 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.560 and I thought about athletic apparel and it didn't exist 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.520 for me something that had a great fit but also 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.040 had foremance first in mind. So I came up with 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.280 this concept in this idea, but now I wanted a 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.480 few athletes behind me. And at the time, I think 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:10.679 Derek might have still had a contract with Nike or 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:12.720 it was winding down, and I didn't think that I 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.480 could get to him or that he'd be interested. But 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.679 after a year of bothering him and his agents, he 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:21.960 actually called me and said, Chris, I'm just not that 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.680 interested and excited in this. But I said, he can't 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.640 get off say he can't get off the phone, Derek, 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.160 how can I get you excited? So we talked for 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:31.520 a while after that, and we kind of came together 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.000 with both of our visions. You know, I'm apparel guy, 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.240 That's the way I think about it. Derek's was a 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:40.080 successful entrepreneur but also very successful, as you know, a 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.240 Nike guy, so I knew that he had a lot 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.080 of insight that I didn't have and he shared it 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:45.600 with me, and we launched a brand about a year 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.040 and a half ago and we're having great success. 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.360 Okay, you weren't excited and then he became excited. How 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.040 that happened? How did you make that turn? 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:51.320 Well? 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.880 I think you know, first and foremost getting to know Chris, 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.800 we talked about the idea. I've had relationships with athletic 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.720 brands throughout my career in great relationships and I still 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.480 do today, right, And you know, when I was first 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.199 speaking to Chris, I was like, well, first of all, 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.840 you know, this is a crowded space. It's not as 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.160 easy to attack this space, and it's going to take 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.360 some time and it's going to take a lot of energy. 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:18.440 And I wouldn't say I wasn't excited, but I when 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.360 I do something, I'm all in and if I'm not 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.200 all in, I'm just not going to do it. And 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.800 at that point when we were having the discussion, I said, 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:27.720 you know, I don't think now is the time. And 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.000 then we actually got together, we had a chance to 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.640 look and feel and touch the product, and that started 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.320 getting me very very excited about it. So I guess 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.000 that's the best way to put it in our short 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:39.760 period of time. 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.120 You do, though, Derek, probably get a lot of investment pitches, 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.880 not just in the apparel world, but yeah, no question, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.160 from lots of different entrepreneurs who want your involvement. What 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.440 was it specifically about this one with Chris with Untucket 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:53.880 that really caught your eye. 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.200 I think it's you got to get to know the 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.520 people any business that you're in the same thing, when 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.120 you're on a team on the field. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.880 You have to have the right people side. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.640 Yeah exactly. I was gonna say that, but you didn't 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.480 give me enough time say that. And you know, I 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.080 just found Chris to be very, very passionate about it. 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.680 You can't fake passion. You either are you aren't. And 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.360 you know, even when I told him that I wasn't interested, 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.040 he kept calling and we kept having the conversation, and 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.240 I knew when you're if you're going to be successful, 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:21.920 you need those types of people on your side. 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:23.600 I always think about that. I remember talking to a 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.360 top m and a banker and he's like, the only 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.320 way you get deals done is this. CEOs have to 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:28.839 like each other, and that's how you get things come 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.199 to the table. Would you say no to a great 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.800 deal because you didn't like somebody, Oh. 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:35.400 Without a doubt. I mean you end up working a lot. 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.640 It's funny when Derek said that he wanted to be 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.000 more involved and he when he goes all in, I 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:42.760 was thinking he was just doing that as an equity 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.959 play to get some more equity. Yeah, that he actually 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.360 wanted to be and Derek's liked I mean he he 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.880 wants to talk about everything, every decision and you want 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.240 somebody who I want something that guess because I don't 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.000 know everything and I definitely don't know everything in the 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.720 athletic apparel space. So it's been a this. 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.880 Is recorded, right, I'm gonna player. We're gonna play that. 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:01.800 You can do that, you can look it, you can 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:02.160 loop it. 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:02.920 Yeah, exactly. 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:04.880 Well the same thing for you, I mean, Derek, when 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.120 you get involved in something, how you know, we asked 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.840 about what made this interesting, but in general, how involved 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:11.559 do you want to be? I mean how much do 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.000 you have to love the brand that you hook up with? 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:15.320 You have to be involved. 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.280 I mean otherwise you're just given your money and you're 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.320 hoping someone else runs with it and makes you more. 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.880 But when you're passionate about something, when you put in 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:24.440 the time, you put in the effort. I think the 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.640 best thing to say about us is we disagree probably 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.240 more than we agree, and I think that's a good thing. 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:30.520 Yeah. 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.600 I mean, you don't want people that always think the 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.040 same as you, Otherwise you're never going to make improvements. 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:36.280 You're never going to make progress. 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.280 Is it hard to say no to? Derek? 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:38.600 Though? 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.839 We just talked with the leadership We are author of 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.520 a leadership book, and they talked about CEOs who once 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.640 they get to the top, they surround themselves with people 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:48.520 who who don't say no. 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.520 Listen, I rolled the dice right from the beginning, and 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.080 we went after each other a little bit. But like 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.679 you said it, it's the best way to go about it. 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:57.959 Like you want to leave at the end of the 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.560 day and have people go against your views, because if 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.680 they're agreeing with you, you're not going to always do 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:04.680 the right thing. So I thought that was a great 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.480 I wondered if he was one to because sorry, if 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.120 he was going to want to continue to relationship a 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.160 few times, but it really came together and now now 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.319 we're on the same page and things are going really 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:14.840 well for us. 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.640 Well, I do wonder when does it get a little tricky, 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.360 Like any partnership, whether it's a marriage, whether it's working relationships, 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.800 whether it's business relationships, there's always tough times. 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:25.480 What are some of those looking at me? 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:25.920 Yeah? 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:27.640 I was about to say, you guys, just keep going. 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.080 You want to you answer that question? 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.080 No, But I really do feel like a little bit 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.520 of debate or a little bit of arguing like gets 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:35.600 you to a better place. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:37.320 I think it does. You have to have a difference 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:38.080 of opinion, like. 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:39.360 I said, I do like you tim. 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.400 Otherwise, like I said, you're not going to make any 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:46.360 any progress moving forward. And we probably we disagree more 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.440 than we agree, but we do it respectfully. And you know, 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.720 there are some things that I know he's an expert. 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.840 It's impossible to be the expert everything, right, you surround 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.760 your people that are much more intelligent in different fields. 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.960 And you know, Chris obviously has a lot of experience 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.200 in the retail space, especially I have experience when it 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.720 comes to athletic brands. So it's okay for us to disagree. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.240 So Chris, let's go there because this is a really 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.560 crowded space. You mentioned Nike, but I mean If you 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.920 think about upstarts like Viori, Rhone, then there are the 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.760 big players like Nike, Adidas and the like. How do 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.640 you carve out a place for you specifically? 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.920 So it's funny, just like with on Tucket, I really 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.040 needed this product. Then you might ask why. You know 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.360 there's plenty of athletic brands and athlesier brands. For me, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.400 the athletic brands that existed, the quality wasn't there, the 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.160 consistency of fit wasn't there. They were designed for performance, 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.160 but they didn't have that modern fit. The athleisure brands 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.640 have an incredible fit, very high quality fabrics, but not 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.040 designed with performance first in mind. So I wanted a 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.040 really high end athletic brand that had a great fit 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.920 but also was meant to work out and would withstand 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.200 being washed, not pilling. Something that all athletes, not just 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.560 professional athletes, could use all the time. And it's not inexpensive, 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:59.240 so you want it to last for a long time. 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.840 And I think that that's where we are differentiate from 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.320 these other brands. We're not athleisure, We're not athletic. We're 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.320 kind of a blend of both, if that makes sense. 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:09.200 I've got yoga pants on that are pilling a little bit. 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:10.960 So I totally get you. What's the kind of what's 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.880 the growth trajectory? Tell me what we can tell we're Bloomberg. 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.600 We love numbers, you know that. What's the growth on this? 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:18.960 Well, we need you to go buy some pants, just 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.240 get right on it to help it's out. But I 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:23.920 think for us, I'll let Chris follow up on it. 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:25.760 I think what we want to show as a brand, 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.080 this is only our second year. We want to show progress. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.840 You know sometimes when you when when you're building a company, 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.920 a startup company, you want success right away to understand 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:36.760 you're you're a startup company for I think they say 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.000 ten years. I mean that's a long long time. So 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.480 we want to show some steady progression. I'll let Chris 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:42.120 get in a number. 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:42.360 Yeah. 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.200 Wait, so will it be ten years before you really 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:44.960 feel like it's there? 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.040 Depends on how much you buy now. 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.960 I mean, there is so much competition. You want to 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.240 just stay relevant. You want to make a great product. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.640 That's the first thing. You got to make a great product, 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:57.280 you need your repeats to be there, which they are 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.520 for us. The other thing that's really exciting with us 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:01.760 is not just you have the e comm then eventually stores, 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:03.840 which is what I did with on Tucket. We have 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.840 a great wholesale business we're building at Greatness Wins. We 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.399 have a golf business. We'll be in eighty clubs. We 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.800 were in eighty clubs this spring. We have a bookstore business. 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.680 Derek just wore a Michigan sweatshirt on his Honorey Captain 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.960 in Michigan this weekend. We have a new dance relationship 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:19.480 with Misty Copeland, who's our women this. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.520 Foundary women who do a little bit of shopping. 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.680 So we have something that will be announcing soon. That's exciting. 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.520 So I'm very happy with earlier are. People love the product, 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.040 they love the quality, and we're just getting going, but 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:31.000 very excited. 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:31.159 For the future. 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.040 All Right, We're going to just shift a little bit 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.240 because I am curious, Derek, are you looking for any 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:39.639 other investments, you know, in sports beyond baseball or maybe 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.440 an MLB team or anything. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.119 No, I've been down that path. No, I'm going to 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:44.439 take a break from that. I spend a lot of 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:46.960 time with my four kids who are seven and under, 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.720 so it's a full time job, especially when you're talking 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.720 about baseball ownership. So at this particular point, I think 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:54.560 I have my hands full. 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:56.360 So you know whether, yeah, well when you say take 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:58.240