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Speaker 1: to tell them George Nori sent you. Now. Here's a

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Speaker 1: highlight from coast to coast am on iHeart Radio and

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Coast to Coast. Let me tell you

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Speaker 1: about our guest, Adam Bligh, Master's level therapists with a

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Speaker 1: master's degree from Penn State University. Adam Bligh is a

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Speaker 1: church decreed expert on religious demonology and exorcism in the

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Dioceses. He is an auxiliary member of the International

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Speaker 1: Association of Exorcists based in Rome. Over the last decade,

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Speaker 1: he has helped educate priests on exorcisms and has assisted

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Speaker 1: at many dozens of solemn exorcisms, house exorcisms, and resolutions

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Speaker 1: of hauntings. A couple of books out, including what We're

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Speaker 1: talking about Hauntings, Possessions and Exorcisms. Adam Bligh back on

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast. Good to have you back, Adam with

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Speaker 1: It's that season, isn't it. Yeah, it is, George. It's

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Speaker 1: great to be back and talk to you again. Adam

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Speaker 1: tell us exactly what is an expert on religious demonology? Well,

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Speaker 1: that just means that you know, within the within the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church. So from a from a Christian viewpoint, Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm a recognized expert and and it's by decree of

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Speaker 1: a bishop. It's something called a paratuse, and that's just

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Speaker 1: Latin for expert. They normally do that at ecumenical councils

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Speaker 1: like Vatican. To case, because I'm a lay person, you know, George,

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Speaker 1: it's it's unusual for me to be training priests in

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Speaker 1: this area, of course, and so they wanted to do

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Speaker 1: a way to kind of recognize that and formalize it.

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Speaker 1: So I would I would think, you know, my position

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Speaker 1: is probably pretty rare, um just by the nature of

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Speaker 1: may being a lay person, but that's that's how it

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Speaker 1: came about. So I can teach in seminaries and things

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Speaker 1: like that. And Adam, Over the past couple of years,

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Speaker 1: hasn't the Catholic Church increased its priests who are exorcists? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very much so. Um so what we've seen, you know,

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Speaker 1: starting with the U. S Bishops at their at their

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Speaker 1: annual meeting, and I believe two thousand eleven, they had

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Speaker 1: a special session on exorcism and it was in the

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Speaker 1: New York Times and and a lot of the media

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Speaker 1: covered that because you know, people were interested, like, why

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Speaker 1: are you talking about this stuff that's from the Middle Ages?

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Speaker 1: And is is that really real? You know? Is are

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Speaker 1: these movies based on something real. And and since then

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Speaker 1: we've seen most of the dioceses in the United States

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Speaker 1: set up programs. A lot of them already have them operating,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of the others are forming. And and

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Speaker 1: as you probably know, George, you know, the popes have

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Speaker 1: called for all dioceses in the world to have an exorcist,

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Speaker 1: you know, for a couple of generations. Now it's not

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Speaker 1: a laughing matter, and it's not a game, is it.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, it's very serious and you know, it's very

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Speaker 1: serious to the people that are suffering and the families

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Speaker 1: of the people that are suffering. And when you see this,

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Speaker 1: you know, and we're very careful to to make sure

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Speaker 1: it's not a medical problem or a psychological problem. All

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Speaker 1: that has ruled out, and the church is all has

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Speaker 1: done that. But when you see this suffering, George, it's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a very serious thing. You know. The

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Speaker 1: attraction is the images in the movies for the public,

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Speaker 1: and you know that seems exciting and scary, and people

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Speaker 1: focus on that side, but you know, the serious side

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Speaker 1: is you know, there there's there's a real human toll there.

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Speaker 1: And so we're doing our best to try to help

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Speaker 1: those people. At what point, Adam, did you get involved

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Speaker 1: in this in why did you do this? Well, I

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Speaker 1: would say about twelve years ago. I was in graduate

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Speaker 1: school studying studying the brain and looking at hypnosis, and

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Speaker 1: I saw that the brain can produce false experiences. You know,

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Speaker 1: people often have strange experiences as they're waking up or

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Speaker 1: as they're going to sleep, and and they often think

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Speaker 1: that this is real, that it might be an alien

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Speaker 1: abduction or you know, something in their room. Other things

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Speaker 1: like that, which I'm sure you've heard over the years.

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Speaker 1: And so it started with an interest in whether the

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Speaker 1: whole paranormal field that was a urging back then, is

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Speaker 1: this real or is this just an artifact of the brain.

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Speaker 1: And and that kind of evolved into being called in

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Speaker 1: to help the church, you know, psychologically look at some

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Speaker 1: some situations, um, you know, one big one at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: It's been written up as as a book now so

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Speaker 1: it can be talked about. And it kind of grew

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Speaker 1: from psychology into the spiritual. Since, of course the Exorcist

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Speaker 1: and the work by William Bladdie, we haven't heard much

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Speaker 1: about exorcisms within the church. Again, the story a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago that the church was increasing its members

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Speaker 1: of exorcists. Well, we really haven't heard about cases and

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Speaker 1: things like that. Why do they keep it so quiet? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you think about it, George, if if

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Speaker 1: it was a relative of yours, you know, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: your listeners can imagine that. What would it be like

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Speaker 1: if if the media were to find out about it?

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Speaker 1: You know, think of that child in the in the

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Speaker 1: house I believe, was it in Ohio, Baltimore, Baltimore, Baltimore

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Speaker 1: and then it wasn't then he went to St. Louis

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Speaker 1: for treatment. Oh no, I mean the more recently another one,

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Speaker 1: the kid that went up the wall in front of

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Speaker 1: the social worker. It was in the news in a

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Speaker 1: big way when it happened, and you know, there was

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Speaker 1: there was prayers going on for some members of that family,

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Speaker 1: and um, you know, it made national news immediately and

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Speaker 1: those people were put on TV. And I'm sure that's

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Speaker 1: made their life difficult. So just imagine, you know, if

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Speaker 1: reporters were on the lawn the next morning and you

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Speaker 1: had a suffering relative that was going through this unusual problem.

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Speaker 1: And and that's why we're so careful to you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of protect their dignity and their privacy, and okay,

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Speaker 1: so when that happens, of course, aren't there leaks. I mean,

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Speaker 1: these are huge stories, these things. Yeah, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: some people some people leaked things about it. But really, George,

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Speaker 1: the real cases, you know, there's a big difference between

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Speaker 1: what people seeing kind of the re enactments on TV

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Speaker 1: about about cases that maybe weren't actual full blown possession cases,

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Speaker 1: but something was going on and and so people, you know,

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Speaker 1: they get excited about that. They talk about people getting

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Speaker 1: scratched or you know, they think something demonic is going on.

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Speaker 1: But there's a big difference between that in a real case,

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Speaker 1: and the people that are involved in the real cases

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Speaker 1: often want nothing to do with this. Once it's over,

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Speaker 1: they have zero interest in talking about it or getting

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Speaker 1: attention about it. They just want their lives to go

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Speaker 1: back to normal. So basically, the real cases people they're

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Speaker 1: not inclined to talk about it. The people that are

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Speaker 1: excited about this usually that's not a real case. That

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Speaker 1: was by the way, in Gary, Indiana, the Little Boys

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and an amazing story and

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Speaker 1: apparently the Diocese of Gary sent an exorcist there to

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Speaker 1: try to take care of the situation. Yeah, did they

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Speaker 1: summon you or consult with you? No, No, they they

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Speaker 1: had somebody there that that was qualified to look into

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Speaker 1: this already. So, um, I know priests who know that

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Speaker 1: priest and you know I I heard kind of the

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Speaker 1: back channel update on the story. Um, but no, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't directly involved in that one. Adam, What a priest

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Speaker 1: that are part of the exorcists exorcisms? What did they

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Speaker 1: say about what they do? What do they think this is? Well,

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Speaker 1: once you've actually been at exorcisms, you you find out

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Speaker 1: quickly that it's real no matter where you're at. It scary.

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Speaker 1: Um ah, I would say it is scary on the

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Speaker 1: human level. You know, that's a natural reaction to once

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Speaker 1: you realize like, oh this is actually real, Yeah this

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Speaker 1: is happening. Yeah, on the human level, it would be

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Speaker 1: a scary thought. But honestly, what we see is there

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Speaker 1: is no fear. So it's like God takes that away

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Speaker 1: of people that are called into this. That's part of

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Speaker 1: the grace that they received to be involved in it.

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Speaker 1: The fear just isn't there. And it's really interesting. Um,

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Speaker 1: I've seen this play out even in people that are

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Speaker 1: pretty timid in their regular life, you know, but that

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Speaker 1: priest goes into that situation and the strength is just

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Speaker 1: there and they find themselves not being fearful and just

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Speaker 1: doing what they need to do. So it's a very

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Speaker 1: interesting process. How many of these cases are actually possessions

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Speaker 1: or demons are there, or the person is just a

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Speaker 1: little mentally unstable. Well, I would say probably the phone

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Speaker 1: calls that would come in end up being somebody who's

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Speaker 1: misunderstanding something or it's a mental problem, and and it's

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Speaker 1: often not so much mental illness, but it's often misunderstanding.

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Speaker 1: So somebody might be aging and elderly and starting to

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Speaker 1: have some strange experience, hallucinating maybe things like that, maybe

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Speaker 1: a medication interaction, maybe an infection. Some infections can cause

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Speaker 1: strange experiences. And and what has happened with the paranormal

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Speaker 1: TV shows in popularizing all this, that's an idea that's

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Speaker 1: in people's mind. And so instead of saying like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm having a weird experience, let me

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Speaker 1: call my doctor. Because of all that media coverage, they think, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's a demon, and maybe it is, but usually

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Speaker 1: the vast majority it's not. So we do a lot

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Speaker 1: of work just kind of helping guide people to to

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Speaker 1: get things resolved. You always want to look at the

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Speaker 1: mundane first. You don't want to jump to the conclusion

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Speaker 1: of somethings a demon. Not only is that a really

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Speaker 1: scary thought to go to, but it you could leave

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Speaker 1: something untreated. So, for instance, George, I had a case

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Speaker 1: of a person who was seeing flashing lights as they

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Speaker 1: were going to sleep every night. This was a young

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Speaker 1: person that was just married, and they thought they jumped

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Speaker 1: to the conclusion that something strange was going on, and

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Speaker 1: I encouraged them because it just wasn't adding up the

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Speaker 1: details of the case. Sounds like a brain issue, well exactly,

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Speaker 1: you know what. It turned out they had an operable

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Speaker 1: brain tumor on the part of the brain that deals

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Speaker 1: with vision. And because it was caught early, it was

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Speaker 1: treatable and they're fine. But if they hadn't gone to

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Speaker 1: the doctor and assumed that it was a spirit, it

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Speaker 1: could have been a much more serious problems. Now of

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Speaker 1: that might be demonic. H what's going on with these people?

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Speaker 1: I mean what happened, Well, basically one of two things.

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Speaker 1: Either they've gotten in trouble through their choices, in their life,

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Speaker 1: and that's you know, dabbling with heavy spirit communication, black

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Speaker 1: magic of some kind, um, you know, getting involved in

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Speaker 1: some some bad spiritual practices where they've invited this into

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Speaker 1: their life. Or some of the people are affected by

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Speaker 1: something their parents did or maybe an ancestor did so

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Speaker 1: they may not have done something, but somebody who had

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Speaker 1: authority over them did so. Sometimes we have to resolve

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Speaker 1: problems that came from the previous generation, and the goal

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Speaker 1: of the exorcist is to do what primarily, Well, that's

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Speaker 1: an interesting question, George, because of course the goal is

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Speaker 1: to get rid of the demon, right, to get rid

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Speaker 1: of the problem. But in reality, what you really see

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Speaker 1: is God is allowing this because a person shows this

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Speaker 1: thing for their life or their family this thing, and

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Speaker 1: so what God wants, it seems, is for the person

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Speaker 1: to straighten out their relationship with God and and strengthen

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Speaker 1: that and focus on that as opposed to focusing on

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Speaker 1: the relationship with this creature. And so it's not so

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Speaker 1: much about us and the priest, you know, yelling at

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Speaker 1: the demon. Not that we yell, but you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, the image of that, it's not so much

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Speaker 1: about that. It's more about helping the person and their

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Speaker 1: relationship with God. And when that is healed, the demon

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Speaker 1: very quickly is out of the picture because it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a hold on the person anymore. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a double edge situation because you're right, on one end,

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Speaker 1: you want to get rid of the demon and and

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Speaker 1: exercise the person. But on the other end, and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: is what caused this demon to possess this person in

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Speaker 1: the first place, because that person is still vulnerable even

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Speaker 1: if you get the other demon out, because they haven't

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Speaker 1: been cured or fixed yet, right, they have to close

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Speaker 1: that door that they've opened. And so yeah, exactly what

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Speaker 1: you see is they'll they'll relapse. Two weeks later, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's back and now it's worse. And you know, the

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Speaker 1: Bible even talks about that. He talks about you know,

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Speaker 1: you kick it out and it wanders looking for a

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Speaker 1: place to live, and it comes back and says, well,

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Speaker 1: here's this house is empty now, and I'll go back

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Speaker 1: to where I was and bring seven more with it.

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Speaker 1: So you know, we're warned about that, and that's in

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Speaker 1: fact what happens. So you gotta you gotta bring God

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Speaker 1: into the house as opposed to just leave in the

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Speaker 1: house empty into more. Coast to Coast a m. Every

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Speaker 1: weeknight at one a m. Eastern and go to Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more