1 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. The stunning collapse of 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: more than fifty three years of Alasad family rule has 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: been described as a historic moment. Nearly fourteen years after 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: Syrian's rose in peaceful protest against the government that met 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: them with violence that quickly spiraled into a bloody civil war. 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: In the early hours of Sunday morning, December eighth, opposition 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: forces declared Syria liberated from the rule of President Bashar 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: al Assad as opposition forces surged into the capitol here 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: to talk about the fall of Assad and what is 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: next for Syria and the region. I'm really pleased to 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: welcome my guest, Yakov Katz, the former editor in chief 12 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: of the Jerusalem Post, author of Shadow Strike, Inside Israel's 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: secret mission to eliminate Syrian nuclear power, somebody who I 14 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: read constantly in regard as one of the shrewdest and 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: wisest observers of the Middle East. And I'm just thrilled 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: that he's here with us. Yakov, welcome and thank you 17 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: for joining me on News World. 18 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: Mister speaker, it's a great to be with you in 19 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: a real honor. 20 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 3: Thank you. 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: You know you've covered the ongoing Syrian civil war extensively. 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: Can you start by talking about the history of the 23 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: Assad family, how they came into power. 24 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: Definitely Pashar Alasad, who had led Syria for the last 25 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: twenty four years and is now somewhere in Russia. He 26 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: was the son of Hafeesa Sad. His father was a 27 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: military officer who took over Syria in a violent way 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: back in about nineteen seventy one or so and led 29 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: it with an iron fist for over thirty years, almost 30 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: till about two thousand when he passed away. Mike Hayden, 31 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: who I know that you know well, was the former 32 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: head of the CIA, once compared the Asad family to 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: me to the Corleone family from the Godfather movie. 34 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: Right. 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: You had the father, the Godfather, who was Kafez, and 36 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: then there was actually another brother, Basil, who was meant 37 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: to be the heir to his father. He was killed 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: in a driving accident somewhere in Syria a bunch of 39 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: years ago. They actually blamed the Israeli Mo Sad for it, 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: but when they had to look for somebody else, they 41 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: went to Bashar. 42 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: Bashar was not. 43 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: Believed to be necessarily a tough guy. He was an 44 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: eye doctor, he had done some training. Actually in the 45 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: United Kingdom, he was seen as somebody who might even 46 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 2: be liberal, more progressive, would be willing to open up 47 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: Syria to the modern age. But actually when he came 48 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: into office, he was a huge disappointment to those who 49 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: thought that he might be taking Syria in a new direction. 50 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: And just to give you a sense, under Kafez the Father, 51 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,399 Speaker 2: who wasn't an arch nemesis of Israel, forget, he accumulated 52 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 2: massive stockpiles of chemical weapons, built up a huge arsenal 53 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: of scud missiles, not just scud bees and seas, but 54 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: also the scud des, the longer range ones. He did 55 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: this in cooperation with North Korea, with the Russians. But 56 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: when Bashar took over, what Bashar did was he basically 57 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: opened up the warehouses to his belah. And not only that, 58 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 2: but he also did he mentioned my book earlier, he 59 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 2: also decided to embark on a nuclear adventure and together 60 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: with North Korea, build a nuclear reactor in northeastern Syria, 61 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: by the way, in a place that today you have 62 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: these rebels from hts from Kayata Kureal Shams who are 63 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: there right in that area of Dirazor. So outside the 64 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: sun really decided to even further solidify and strengthen the 65 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: alliance between his regime with Iran, with his Belah with 66 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: North Korea. He took things in a much more dangerous direction. 67 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: Not to mention, as we all know what happened in 68 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: the first iteration of the civil war about ten to 69 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: eleven twelve years ago, when he was using chemical weapons 70 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 2: against his own people, killing about five hundred thousand of 71 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: his own people. 72 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: But why was his father able to keep an iron 73 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: grip on the country with the single exception of Hams 74 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: dramatically less violence than his son. 75 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: Well, as you mentioned, there was the massacre in nineteen 76 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: eighty two in Hama where the father Hafez used chemical 77 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: weapons against his own people, killed thousands. Some of the 78 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: estimates put it up to forty thousand, with another twenty 79 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 2: thousand or so civilians who disappeared. Were seeing even now 80 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: the images that are coming out of some of these 81 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: prisons inside Syria of people who have now been released 82 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 2: and liberated by the HTS rebels, men and women who 83 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: were sure that the people who were coming to rescue 84 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: them were actually Saddam Hussein's soldiers. Right they were stuck 85 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 2: in a time, and they were thrown into a dark 86 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: hole and the key was thrown away, and they were 87 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: beaten and tortured and just stolen of a life. This 88 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: was a repressive, violent dictatorship and they have held back 89 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: their country from being a country that can progress forward. 90 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 3: Listen, Syria is a. 91 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 2: Big country, big in land, big in population, but it's 92 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: also a country whose economy is completely failed. It is 93 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 2: extremely dependent over the last few years on Iran and 94 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: Iran's assistance. It has been extremely dependent over the last 95 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: few years on Russia's assistance. And we remember in the 96 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 2: First Civil War last decade, Bashar right needed his Blah 97 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 2: fighters to come and fight on his behalf as well. 98 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 2: So these are people who never really held back or 99 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 2: restrained themselves from using any type of weapons or turning 100 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: guns and even chemical weapon against their own people. That 101 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: is how you rule through fear. 102 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: In their case, I think they are allow whites who 103 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: are about five percent of the population, so they had 104 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: to use fear to offset their extreme minority status. 105 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 3: They had to use. 106 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: Syria, as you rightly point out, is a country that 107 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 2: has long been fractured and splintered. 108 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: If we look even at. 109 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 2: Syria today, What you have is the Kurds who are 110 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 2: in the north east. You have the Drus who are 111 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: in the southeast. You have the Alo Whites who still 112 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 2: have a bit of a pocket in the coast on 113 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: the western side, on the coast of the Mediterranean. You 114 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: have Russia, which has two naval bases also on the coast, 115 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: Tartus and Latakia. You have HHS now the rebel force 116 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: funded by and supported by President der Dowan of Turkey, 117 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: which is barreled through from the north west all the 118 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 2: way down to the border with Israel. They used to 119 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: be in the Lee Province, which was on the border 120 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 2: with Turkey, but now they've taken over large swaths of land. 121 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: You have a country that is like five different little 122 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: countries of its own. You got the Kurds, the Drus, 123 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: the Russians, the rebels supported by Turkey. This is a 124 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: huge challenge for Israel because when Israel looks at this, 125 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: it looks at what its interest is is, how do 126 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: we get a country that's stable and not going to 127 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: fall apart turning to a Libya or in Afghanistan and 128 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: going to be on our border. 129 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: The militan group Hayatar Alsham HTS are they Sunni or Shia? 130 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: So they are Sunni. It's an interesting organization, right. You 131 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: remember that during the first part of the Gulf War, 132 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: in the so called Arab Spring, Syria fell apart, right, 133 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: You had ISIS in Syria. 134 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 3: By the way. 135 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 2: The American presence that remains, and I forgot to say 136 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: this before, America is also in Syria. They're on the 137 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: Eastern Front and near the border with Iraq. They're still 138 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: there as part of that contingent and that force that 139 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: was put into Syria to fight against ISIS. They even 140 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 2: have a more strategic presence because they're on the Eastern Front, 141 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: they're on the border between Syria and Iraq. They've been 142 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: able to also at times prevent the flow of weapons 143 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: or fighters, bad guys going from Iraq in to Syria 144 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: and vice versa. So that just adds even more complexity 145 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: to this. 146 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: But HTS and they're sort of embedded with the Curds, 147 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: aren't they. 148 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 2: And they're embedded with the Kurds by the way. I mean, 149 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: if we're opening up the Curds. That's going to be 150 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 2: a big question here because the incoming president is going 151 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: to have to make a big decision whether he stands 152 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: with the Kurds. Because the Kurds are coming under attack 153 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 2: now from HTS, which is operating under a bigger umbrella 154 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: organization called the Syria National Army. They are coming under 155 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: attack from them. They are lining up somewhere along the 156 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: Euphrates River in an area near Diirazor, which is in 157 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: the northeast of Syria. The Kurds are on one side, 158 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 2: the HTS and Syria National Army on the other side, 159 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: and Air Dowan wants to break the Kurds. He doesn't 160 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: want them to have their own independence. There is a 161 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: fierce competition and it's going to be a question for 162 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 2: what the incoming administration is going to do. Is it 163 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: going to stand with the Kurds, not just in verbally 164 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: or rhetoric, but also in terms of supplies and weaponry 165 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: and military advice and maybe even some air support. I mean, 166 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: this is going to be a big one for the 167 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: president to have to decide what he's going to do, 168 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 2: because it's not just standing with the Kurds now, it's 169 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: standing with the Kurds against Turkey essentially, or at least 170 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: a proxy of Turkey. Turkey's a member of NATO. This 171 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: makes things much more complicated. 172 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: We abandon the Kurds in the seventies. They thought they 173 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: had a whole set of promises and we sincerely meant 174 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: them until he didn't. The whole saga. The Kurdish people's unbelievable, 175 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: scattered as they are between Syria, Iraq, Turkey and Iran, 176 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 1: somehow basically surviving for several thousand years, I guess by 177 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: retreating into the mountains and just making it too expensive 178 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: to come get them. 179 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: But as you know, what's known as the People's Defense 180 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: Units or by its acronym YPG, which is one of 181 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: the Kurdish fighting forces, they were very helpful in defeating 182 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 2: ISIS over the last decade. They have prisons in their 183 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 2: Kurdish controlled territory where there are many ISIS fighters, and 184 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 2: you had we all remember, for example, the major victory 185 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: that YPG had during the siege of Kobani in northern 186 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: Syria back in twenty fourteen, when the Kurds went in 187 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: and they did get some support from the US with 188 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: air support, but it was their troops were on the 189 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: ground who fought and defeated ISIS. So they are much 190 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: more an ally of the United States and of the 191 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 2: West and you probably know this as well. Israel has 192 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: some interesting ties with them also, but much more than 193 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,119 Speaker 2: whatever HTS would be. But back to your question about HTS. 194 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: They were born out of You remember the Nusra Front, right, 195 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: which Jabat el Nusra, which was an al Kaeda offshoot 196 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: that came about during the Syrian Civil War during the 197 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: so called Arab Spring. And these were radical Islamic Salafi 198 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 2: Sunni terrorists, right. Muhammad Abu al Jalani, the leader has 199 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: a ten million dollar bounty on his head by the 200 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 2: United States government. What happened was in twenty sixteen, after 201 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: Syria had pretty much settled down with Russia's intervention his 202 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 2: Milan i Ron, the rebels kind of went to their 203 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: corner in need Lee Province, and then the Qataris sent 204 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 2: some of their Al Jazeera media specialists sober and said, okay, guys, 205 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: let's do a rebrand. They changed their names. They got 206 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: rid of the New Surfront. They started to call themselves 207 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: Kaya takreel Shams, the HTS, and then they trimmed their 208 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 2: beards a bit and they started to sing a different tune, 209 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 2: which made it seem like maybe they're a little more moderate, 210 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: And you know, I could tell you new I was 211 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 2: on a BBC interview last week and the anchor woman 212 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 2: was asking me all about you know why is Israel 213 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 2: bombing all these targets in Syria? Right? Israel last week 214 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 2: forty eight hours destroyed advanced weapons like chemical weapons, scud missiles, 215 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 2: air defense systems instead of really took off all these 216 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 2: targets off the tables. They wouldn't fall into rebel hands. 217 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 2: And I'm explaining this to her and she says, but 218 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: why is Israel violating sirius sovereignty? And I said, I 219 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: think you're missing the point. This isn't Kiir Starmer's labor 220 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: party that has taken over Syria. These are radical Islamists 221 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 2: who were just yesterday a direct subsidiary of al Qaida. 222 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: So that's who they are. 223 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: They're still on the American terrorist list. 224 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 2: Yes. 225 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: I noticed by the way that Abu Muhammad al Jilani 226 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: now wears a Western jacket, which I think he's confident 227 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: will be interpreted by the British government as a sign 228 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: of his newfound moderation. 229 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: You know this world much better than I do, but 230 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 2: sadly there are people who that's enough to get them 231 00:12:53,760 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: to believe that everything's going to be okay. 232 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: The Israelis played a major role you wrote about it 233 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 1: in eliminating what was a North Korean delivered Syrian nuclear 234 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: power program, and I have no idea who actually funded it, 235 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: because I don't think it was Syria, but then a 236 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: brilliant operation. The Israelis just got rid of it, which 237 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: they had done generation earlier with the Iraqi nuclear program 238 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: and may have to do sometime the next generation with 239 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: the Iranian nuclear program. So there's always been this almost 240 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: inevitable Israeli intervention for self protection into Syria. And I 241 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: noticed that as soon as the Damascus government collapsed, not 242 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: only did the Israelis occupy the Syrian side of the 243 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: Golan Heights, there were reports of Israeli patrols within forty 244 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: miles of Damascus. I'm assuming that it will be a 245 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: very long time, if ever, before the Israelis pulled back 246 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: from the Golan and allow the new government to have 247 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: any presence close to Israel. 248 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: I think you're hitting out a number of elements here. 249 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: The first is that, yes, Israel and Syria have a 250 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: long history, and Syria has for a long time proven 251 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 2: to be a fierce enemy of the state of Israel 252 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: right to try to obtain nuclear weapons, as it did 253 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: back in the mid two thousands, and Israel denied that 254 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: of them by destroying the hell keep Our reactor as 255 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: it was called. Was not only an illicit nuclear program 256 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: by a rogue state, with the nuclear reactor being built 257 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: for it by North Korea, another rogue state, but this 258 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: was an attempt to obtain weapons of mass destruction that 259 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 2: could have altered the balance of power. Now, let's imagine 260 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: just for a moment, and I get a shiver down 261 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: my spine thinking about this, But now you have these 262 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 2: El Kaida offshoots barreling through Syria taking over imagine where 263 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 2: there would be a nuclear actor had it not been 264 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: discovered and destroyed. We'd be having a very different conversation 265 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: right now, and the world would be looking at a 266 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: very different reality right now. This has long been the 267 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: issue with Syria. In recent years, I would say over 268 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: the last ten, eleven, twelve years, Israel has operated quite 269 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: frequently in Syria. And what it's done is it's really 270 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 2: tried only from the air force, really from the air 271 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: to deny Iran what we would call Iranian entrenchment. Iran 272 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: which had come into Syria to help Ashar Alasa defeat 273 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: the rebels back ten years ago, began to build up 274 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: bases inside Syria to have another front against Israel. It 275 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 2: had his ballot's greatest proxy in Lebanon. It wanted to 276 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: have another base of operations in which to attack Israel. 277 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: Israel carried out countless airstrikes all the time beneath the radar, 278 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 2: not even really communicating them, being very quiet and hush hush, 279 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: but to deny Iran that ability, and for the most 280 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 2: part it succeeded. But now what we have is with 281 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: the rebels there the Israeli concern is twofold. What is 282 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 2: and the more immediate. And you mentioned the Syrian side 283 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: of the Golan Heights. After the om Kepper War of 284 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, when Syria and Egypt together launched that 285 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: surprise attack against Israel and the holiest Jewish day, the 286 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 2: Day of Atonement, Israel was able to push back Syria 287 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: and in the nineteen seventy four armistice agreement. In the 288 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: ceasefire deal, there was the establishment of a peacekeeping force 289 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: called undof the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force, and basically 290 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: their job was to keep a buffer zone on the 291 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: Syrian side, it would stay demilitarized, right, so you wouldn't 292 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: have armed Syrian soldiers up against the border with Israel. 293 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 2: Israel was the victim in this attack, and therefore Syria 294 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: had to stay back. And by the way, also under 295 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: the agreement, Israel had to keep its forces and the 296 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: number that it had in the Golan Heights also to 297 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: certain limits. But anyhow, Israel's immediate concern is we don't 298 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: want to see rebels along the border. We don't want 299 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: to normalize that. And if the rebels think that they 300 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 2: can come into the buffer zone, well we're going to 301 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 2: show them that they can't. And that's why Israel has 302 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: moved into this buffer zone. Israel's Prime minister in the Tanio, 303 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 2: has made very clear by the way. He visited the 304 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 2: Syrian side of the Hermone Mountain just the other day 305 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 2: and he said very clearly, we're not here forever, but 306 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 2: we're not going to leave without some sort of arrangement 307 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 2: that ensures our security. Now what that arrangement is and 308 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 2: what it looks like, we'll have to wait to see, 309 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 2: but it's going to have to be something with some 310 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 2: sort of multinational guarantee right now, which Israel doesn't have. 311 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 2: So that's concern one. Concern two, more strategic is what 312 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: does this mean for the future of the Middle East. 313 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we have now a Syria, so 314 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 2: let's say the strategic weapons have been taken off the table, 315 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 2: but we have a Ciria that we mentioned before. We 316 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: got America there, we got Russia there, we got Turkey there, 317 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: we got the Kurds there. What's Erdan's play? What does 318 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 2: he want to do? He's the big boss now in Syria, 319 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: and he's no friend of Israel. And you know this 320 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 2: right He is a vile anti Semite over the years 321 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 2: and has really said some terrible things about Jews and 322 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 2: about Israel, and he hasn't been a friend of the 323 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 2: State of Israel. And I know he's a member of NATO, 324 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: so that does give some sort of levers here. But 325 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 2: Israel is very concerned with what his plans might be 326 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 2: for Israel and what does he planned to do with Syria. 327 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: So there's a lot of balls up in the air 328 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 2: right now. And I'm going to go out on a 329 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: limb and probably guess and be right here that this 330 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 2: is going to be one of the first topics that 331 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 2: Nizzanio is going to have to talk to Donald Trump 332 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 2: about come January twentieth. 333 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: Does the chaos in Syria make it a little harder 334 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: to focus on Iran? 335 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: You know, I actually think that it creates a unique 336 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 2: opportunity to focus on Iran. I think we have to 337 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 2: stay vigilant on Syria. We have to ensure that our 338 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: sovereignty is a country is not violated, that the rebels 339 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: don't think that they can be up against the border 340 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: and potentially launch attacks from Syria into Israel. But let's 341 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: look at what's happened over the last fifteen months. You know, 342 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: October seventh, when Kamas launched its surprise attack mass occurring 343 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 2: twelve hundred Israelis, abducting another two hundred and fifty one. 344 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 2: You still have one hundred hostages in comas captivity. Hopefully 345 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: a deal will come soon. But that was a dark day, 346 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: terrible day for the state of Israel. Really one of 347 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 2: the worst, if not the worst, in history. What we've 348 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 2: seen since is a reshaping of the Middle East. Now 349 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: over the last twenty years, and you mentioned this before, 350 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 2: Israel has destroyed O c Raq, Iraq's reactor in nineteen 351 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: eighty one, Serra's reactor in two thousand and seven. Why 352 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: hasn't that done the same to Iran? A greater nemesis, 353 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 2: a bigger threat, the country that says we want to 354 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 2: wipe you off the map. Why hasn't Israel done it? 355 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: Two main reasons why. Number one, doubts of whether Israel 356 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 2: could carry out the operation, could get the job done. Well, 357 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: we now know after Israel attacked Iran in October and 358 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 2: destroyed its air defense systems with one hundred aircraft. Israel 359 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 2: has free reign today if it wants over Iranian airspace, 360 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 2: so it can get there, It can operate, it can target, 361 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: it can strike with accuracy and precision. Now, yes, some 362 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: of the facilities in Iran are underground and are fortified. 363 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: Israel has developed some capabilities over the years to be 364 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: able to penetrate. It might not be able to destroy everything, 365 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: but it can cause enough damage to set them back 366 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 2: for a number of years. That was reason one why 367 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 2: Isral didn't do it until now no longer relevant. Reason 368 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 2: two why is Rel didn't do it until and that 369 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 2: was the fear of the retaliation. What do I mean 370 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 2: by that his ballot had one hundred and fifty thousand 371 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: rockets and missiles. Commas had forty to fifty thousand, Asad 372 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 2: had chemical weapons, scud missiles, and a conventional army. Well 373 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 2: they don't exist anymore. So Israel can potentially attack Iran 374 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 2: and not face the repercussions of what it thought it 375 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 2: would face once upon a time. This is a unique 376 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: moment in history, and it's a window that won't stay 377 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 2: open forever. And I really think that this is something 378 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 2: from what I hear within the government, this is something 379 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: that the government right now is thinking very hard about 380 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 2: how to do it, what to do how much. Also, 381 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: do you want to coordinate with your American friends there 382 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: you kind of know the behind the scenes on some 383 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 2: of this. But do you want to go to the 384 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 2: Americans and ask for permission or do you want to 385 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: operate without asking for permission Sometimes plausible deniability is good 386 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 2: for both sides. Or do you want to ask the 387 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 2: Americans for some help, but what if the Americans then 388 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: say no? Or do you want to ask the Americans 389 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: to do it themselves? In other words, there's a lot 390 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: of different options that could be on the table and 391 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 2: in the mix here right now. But I think everyone 392 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: recognizes that this moment is historic, potentially for finally dealing 393 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 2: with Iran the blow that it needs to receive, not 394 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: only because of its illicit nuclear activity, but because of 395 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 2: this terrible role that it has been playing in stoking 396 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 2: violence and terrorism all across the world and thinking that 397 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 2: it has immunity. 398 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: Well, a couple months ago, when I come in, he 399 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,239 Speaker 1: went on national television and reassured people that when we 400 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: say death to Israel, death to America, it's not a slogan, 401 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: it's a policy. I thought that was about as clear 402 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: as you could get. And if somebody says openly they 403 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: want to destroy you, you have some reason to eliminate 404 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: that possibility. 405 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I think you're right. 406 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: My guess is that on January twentieth, the range of 407 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: options will widen because I have a hunch that Trump 408 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: is going to ultimately say, you know, I'm perfectly happy 409 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: for you to take out all their nukes and there'll 410 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: be literally no blowback, and might, as you point out, 411 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: might all have the assistance, and frankly, a handful of 412 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: B two bombers could make a pretty big difference and 413 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: completing that campaign. Are you surprised that the one hundred 414 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand missiles, and what seemed to be this 415 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: enormous threat from Hesbellah has collapsed as decisively as it has. 416 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 2: I think that the surprise is quite remarkable because the 417 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 2: belief originally was that his Blah has this arsenal that 418 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: can strike anywhere inside Israel, some of it with precision 419 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 2: guide in munitions PGMs, and we saw throughout the war, 420 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 2: the last fourteen to fifteen months of which his Belah 421 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: was attacking Israel with hundreds of rockets every day, they 422 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 2: didn't have that ability. Now what happened is is I 423 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: think what we saw was Israel really had amazing intelligence 424 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 2: on his Belah. You know, everyone now knows about the 425 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 2: Pager operation and the Beeper operation, which is really the 426 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 2: stuff of like a Hollywood film, but it also had 427 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: the location of their long range and more precise and 428 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 2: accurate strategic missiles, and it was able to take those 429 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: out and remove them and deny his Billow the ability 430 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 2: to use them. So the intelligence penetration that is had 431 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: over his Blah was something that I think no one 432 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 2: really knew except for a handful of people, and that's 433 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 2: why we were all surprised. Now the question is, okay, 434 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: if the leaders of the government and the leaders of 435 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 2: Israel public, political leaders, military leaders knew that they had this, 436 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 2: why were they scaring the public for so long? And 437 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 2: we all thought, you know, I remember new Friday night, 438 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 2: Hassan Astrala is eliminated. Eighty tons are dropped on a 439 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 2: bunker in a suburb of Beroots and he's killed. Fast 440 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: forward to Saturday morning, it's the Sabbath. I'm walking to 441 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 2: synagogue with my son, and I'm looking up and it's sunny, 442 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 2: and I'm saying to myself, I can't believe I'm just 443 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 2: able to walk outside. If you had told me a 444 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 2: year ago, Yakov, what will happen when Hassan Asrala has killed, 445 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: I would say we're going to be in bomb shelters 446 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 2: for the next three weeks, right, But we weren't. We 447 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,719 Speaker 2: were walking outside. So something. Israel had really achieved a 448 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 2: remarkable success with his Belah. Sadly, when you contrast that 449 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,479 Speaker 2: with Kamas and Gaza, there we completely failed. Here we 450 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 2: had a remarkable success. It shows that when you're focused 451 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: and you're gathering the intelligence that you need, and you're 452 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 2: focused on your threat and your adversary, Israel has remarkable capabilities. 453 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: In your judgment, was the failure of October a failure 454 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: of intelligence gathering or a failure of interpretation. 455 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: I think it's much more a failure of interpretation. You 456 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 2: just said it. Kamanae goes on live television and says, 457 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: you know, we want to kill you, right, You got 458 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 2: to take what these guys say at face value. They 459 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 2: mean it well. Hamas was telling us this for years. 460 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 2: They were saying, we're coming to kill you. We don't 461 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 2: recognize as was right to exist. We want to push 462 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 2: you all out into the sea. We want to murder 463 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 2: you all. And what did we say, now, you don't 464 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 2: You just want some money, You just want some jobs, 465 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: You just want some economic presparity. And we believe that. 466 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 2: I'd call it believing a fairy tale. I just finished 467 00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 2: a new book which will come out in the fall, 468 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: called Waal Israel Slept, which looks at what led up 469 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 2: to that October seventh massacre by Kamas. And we fell 470 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 2: into a belief that containment can work with an enemy. 471 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 2: And I think that we all know in the world 472 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 2: it's hard for us, though I get it. It's hard 473 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 2: for us everywhere in the world, anyone in the West 474 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 2: to accept that, no, we have to fight, because we 475 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 2: don't want to fight. We all want to live a 476 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 2: good life. But sadly, these people are not the same 477 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 2: as we are. They might look like us, two arms, 478 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 2: two legs, two ears, two eyes, but they don't think 479 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: like us. And therefore, when Yahiah Cinoir, the leader of Kamas, 480 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 2: was saying to us, We're coming to kill you, and 481 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 2: our intelligence officials were saying, nah, we think they're actually deterred. 482 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: They don't really want war, they want quiet. It wasn't 483 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 2: a question of intelligence, It was a question of really 484 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 2: understanding what are their real and true intentions. And I'll 485 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 2: just tell you one last thing on that. In the 486 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 2: twenty four hours per seating the Kammas invasion, we had 487 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 2: unbelievable intelligence of what they were doing. Many different alarms 488 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 2: were going off, and there were phone calls all throughout 489 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 2: the night with the chief of Staff of the IDF, 490 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: these real defense forces, and as head of operations and 491 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,479 Speaker 2: the head of the command in charge of Gaza, and 492 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: they were just torn, is this real? What exactly are 493 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 2: they doing? Is it a drill? Is it an invasion? 494 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 2: And they read the whole thing wrong, and look at 495 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 2: what happened right now. 496 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: I'm putting in a bid to do another podcast with 497 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: you when your new book comes out. 498 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. 499 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: Do you think that had a Wan wance Iran to 500 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: survive as a competitor or at Awan would be relatively 501 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: happy if Iran was basically demilitarized. 502 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: I think Urdwan in Turkey at the end of the day, 503 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 2: would not be unhappy if Iran was weakened to an 504 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: extent that it wouldn't be able to pose a challenge 505 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 2: to the supremacy that he's after. You see, we got it, 506 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 2: and you're touching on the real important question. What does 507 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 2: he want right What is his interest right now in Syria? 508 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: I think it's threefold. First is, let's not forget since 509 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 2: the civil war in Syria happened, He's got millions of 510 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 2: Syrian refugees living in Turkey. He wants to get rid 511 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: of them. Right, They're a toll on his economy, They're 512 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 2: stealing jobs from real Turks. By the way, we're already 513 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 2: seeing some European countries that are offering us. I think 514 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: I saw it was Austria or something like that offering 515 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 2: a thousand euros incentive to Syrian refugees that they have 516 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: to go back to Syria. Now outside's gone, go home, 517 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: take a thousand bucks with you. So everybody wants to 518 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: try to get rid of some of these Syrian refugees, 519 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 2: and millions have been scattered now, mostly in Turkey and 520 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: throughout mainland Europe. So that's interest one. Interests two. He 521 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 2: wants to defeat the Kurds. He views the PKK as 522 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: a terrorist organization. They're a threat to him. He wants 523 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: them taken off the table, and he doesn't want them 524 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: to get any independence or have any autonomy in the region. 525 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: Number three though, and I think this falls into a 526 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 2: bigger dream and vision that he has. He wants to 527 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 2: maybe reassert or recreate the Ottoman Empire. And he goes 528 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: back to looking and it wasn't that long ago, right 529 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 2: about one hundred years ago, it was the Turks who 530 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 2: ruled this entire territory, this whole land right including where 531 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 2: Israel is. 532 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 3: By the way. 533 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: So he looks back at this and says, one second, 534 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 2: something went wrong. We were a superpower. Now we are 535 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 2: definitely a regional superpower, but we used to be a 536 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 2: global superpower. How can I get back into that space? 537 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: And now moving into Syria is a big step in 538 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 2: that direction because it puts him in the real big 539 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 2: leagues now, right, he's going to be the main player. 540 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 2: He's got the Russians to the left, the Americans to 541 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: the right, Israel to the south. This is the big 542 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 2: leagues and er doan If he wants to achieve whatever 543 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: his ambitions might be on a more globalistic level, this 544 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 2: is one big way to do it. 545 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: I mean, as one such you could argue he wants 546 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: a rerun of Lawrence of Arabia with the Turks winning. 547 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: About two years into his presidency, it hit me he 548 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: really wants to replace at Turk. He wants to roll 549 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: back the Westernism that at Turk brought in and become 550 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: a bigger symbol of Turkish nationality than at a Turk was. 551 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: And a lot of this is driven by an almost 552 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: personal sense of destiny. 553 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're right. 554 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: I was fascinated to note that Asad has posted that 555 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: he really didn't mean to leave for Russia, and I'm 556 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: very curious why do you think he did that? 557 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 2: Look aside, Yeah, put out the statement where he basically 558 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 2: said it wasn't my decision. I didn't want to leave 559 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,959 Speaker 2: the Russians and you know told me I have to go, 560 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 2: and I was coerced and against man will. He does 561 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: want to I think, and we kind of mentioned this. 562 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: He wants to leave open potentially a return one day 563 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: to Syria. Lots of political leaders and even as violent 564 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 2: and repressive and murderous as him, look to the future 565 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 2: and say, one second, if this all goes sideways inside Syria, 566 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: maybe I do have a path back, and I don't 567 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: want to be seen like I fled the country. So 568 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 2: it's the legacy, and it's the potential path forward. Who 569 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 2: knows what tomorrow will bring when it comes to us 570 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: being able to come back to Syria. There's a lot 571 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 2: of people who are talking about whether the devil you 572 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: know is better than the devil you don't know, and 573 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 2: that maybe Israel, in America and others should have tried 574 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: to help ash O a last sad because now we 575 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 2: have these radical and you know what I say to that, 576 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 2: and I see you kind of shaking your head to me, 577 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 2: this man, I don't know what HTS will bring us. 578 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 2: I don't know what will come, and we'll have to 579 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 2: be vigil. But this was a murderer. This was a 580 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 2: man who committed the greatest war crimes possible, who pursued 581 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 2: weapons of mass destruction. This was no friend, not of Israel, 582 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: not of America, not of anyone in the West. It's 583 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: a good day when bad guys are toppled. 584 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: He wasn't a friend of Syrian's. 585 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 2: That's for sure. 586 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 3: As well. 587 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: I'll be curious how long he lasted Moscow. I'm not 588 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: sure he's that rich. 589 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 2: I'm not sure he's that rich. And I saw some 590 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 2: reports also that Putin is saying, I have no plans 591 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 2: to meet him. We're giving him sanctuary or asylum, but 592 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: we're not making him some king now in some Moscow suburb. 593 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: But I have to ask you about one painful topic, 594 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: which is Prime Minister net Yahoo the trial. How does 595 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: that work out in your judgment? 596 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: I have to tell you I have a lot of 597 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 2: criticism of Prime Minister in Ntenia over the years. I 598 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 2: think there's also an inherent problem when you have a 599 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 2: prime minister who's been indicted and now standing trial and 600 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 2: now giving testimony twice three times a week for six 601 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 2: hours at a time. I mean, while we're fighting literally 602 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 2: a war of existence for the State of Israel. When 603 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 2: he asked to postpone his testimony, I came out very 604 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 2: strongly in support of that request. This is not the time. 605 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 2: You know, we're talking about a trial that's been going 606 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 2: on for five years already. Like, give the guy another 607 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: six months. Nothing's going to happen, But let him stay focused. 608 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 2: I mean, at the end of the day, it can't 609 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 2: always be yes, BB no BB. 610 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 3: Do I like him? Do I not like him? 611 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: There's a country that we have to take care of 612 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 2: and we have to preserve. And we could argue about 613 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 2: his policies and does he put his personal survival first? 614 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 2: Does he put the nation's interests first? When I look 615 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: at the big picture. Since October seventh, I can't say 616 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 2: it's all Natian Yahoo, but he is our prime minister 617 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 2: and with his government and with his military leadership, Israel 618 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 2: has achieved something remarkable. Now we have to see how 619 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 2: to preserve these successes in Gaza, hopefully we get back 620 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: the hostages in his Bila where his Bila has been beaten. 621 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 2: Back in Syria, we now we have to be vigilant. 622 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 2: But Asad toppled and the weapons taken off the table, 623 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 2: Iran vulnerable and weak and more exposed than ever before. 624 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 2: This is a remarkable achievement that he's the prime minister 625 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 2: who gets to take the credit for that. So he 626 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 2: owns the failures of October seventh, those were his policies 627 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 2: that led to that disaster, but he also owns the 628 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 2: success that has come since then. And I think that 629 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 2: we as a country, we got to stop with the strife, 630 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 2: the polarization, the populism. There's a lesson here for us. 631 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 2: We're not safe. 632 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: Why are the judges so uninterested in the larger picture? 633 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 2: Hard for me to speak for them, but I think 634 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 2: that there is a movement in this country, and I 635 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 2: think you see that in your country as well, that 636 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 2: people cannot move beyond the politics. They can't move beyond 637 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 2: the disdain for the politician, and any means are necessary 638 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 2: and legitimate in this political battle. And you know, the 639 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 2: way I see it, we have a process in this 640 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,240 Speaker 2: where we're still a democracy, right, We're a proud democracy. 641 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 2: You want to bring him down, you want to replace him, 642 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 2: take it to the people. We got a way to vote. 643 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: But when the people vote for him, that's what the 644 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 2: people decided. And if the people want him to be 645 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 2: their prime minister, then I respect that whether I want 646 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 2: him or I don't want him, right, and they should 647 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 2: be able to implement those policies and to control and 648 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 2: to rule and run the government. Now, with that said, 649 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 2: when you have huge failures and huge disasters, you should 650 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 2: be also be held accountable. But there's a way to 651 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 2: be held accountable again, go to an election, right. There 652 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 2: is a system to process this, just like America has, 653 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 2: just like European countries have. Israel has same system, so 654 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 2: we should be working through that. I don't like this 655 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 2: intervention of the courts, which seems to want at times 656 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 2: to be replacing what should be me is the people, 657 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 2: our decision of what we should be doing. With the 658 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 2: prime minister again, and I'll say just once again, I'm 659 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 2: not his biggest fan, But with that said, I think 660 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 2: that at this time to be going into court for 661 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 2: six hours a day when we have such huge, mega issues, 662 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 2: existential issues to deal with, is insane. 663 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,280 Speaker 1: I agree. I'm very curious, as you know, Jake Sullivan 664 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: has said in a press conference that the Biden administration 665 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: is very confident and pushing very hard to have the 666 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: hostages released before January twentieth. Do you think it actually 667 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: matters in the context of the Middle East that anybody 668 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: looks at the American inauguration date or do you think 669 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: Hamas will decide when Hommage decided. 670 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 2: Well, I think it definitely makes a difference. And the 671 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 2: reason it makes the difference is because of what I 672 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 2: call the Trump effect, right, Donald Trump coming into office 673 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 2: has everybody a little uneasy here, the bad guys at least, right. 674 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 2: We saw that with Iran, which was threatening to attack 675 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 2: Israel still at the end of October, beginning of November. 676 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 2: Donald Trump wins the election, they walk that back, We're 677 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 2: not going to attack Israel. We saw his ballat playing 678 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 2: very hard with the ceasefire agreement with Israel. Donald Trump 679 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 2: wins the election quite quickly, Suddenly there's a cease fire 680 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 2: agreement that's actually favorable in some of its terms towards Israel. 681 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 2: Camas had been holding out on a hostage deal for months. 682 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 2: For months, suddenly Donald Trump is back in. He's also 683 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 2: tweeting out something along the lines of all hell will 684 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 2: break loose if the hostages are not returned by January twentieth. 685 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 2: Now we're told a deal might be just weeks away. Now. 686 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 2: Biden wants to get this also as his success, so 687 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 2: he wants be able to take credit for it. Trump 688 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 2: will be able to say say, listen, it's because of 689 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 2: me coming in that was able to engineer and make 690 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 2: this happen. But I think that at the end of 691 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 2: the day, when I do think of the hostages, though, 692 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 2: I'd have to put politics aside for a moment and 693 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 2: just say we have to bring these people home. There 694 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 2: are one hundred people who are being held in Gaza 695 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 2: for already fifteen months. Almost about half of them are 696 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,439 Speaker 2: believed to still be alive. They are there. They were 697 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 2: sent to live on the border by Israel. They were 698 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 2: sent to fight on the border by Israel. And we 699 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 2: have responsibility to bring them back. And you know why. 700 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 2: The most important reason, of course, we have to save lives, 701 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 2: and that's obviously paramount, but it's also we as a 702 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 2: country won't be able to heal if we don't get 703 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 2: back the hostages. Because if we end the war, and 704 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 2: let's say we could say, oh we won Hamas has 705 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: been decimated, they're no longer going to control of Gaza, 706 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 2: but our people remain in Gaza, we won't be able 707 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 2: to move on as a people and we need that closure. 708 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 2: So we need to get them back. So whether it's 709 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 2: Trump or Biden or BB or whoever where it might be, 710 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 2: I'm hoping that on this issue, these are lives at stake, 711 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 2: including a number of Americans who are still being held 712 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 2: US citizens who are being held by Kamas. We got 713 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 2: to do everything we can to wrap this up as 714 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: quickly as possible and hopefully get it done before January twentieth. 715 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: Yeahkov, I want to thank you for joining me in 716 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: helping us better understand both Syria and the region. We're 717 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: going to feature a link to your book, Shadow Strike, 718 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: Inside Israel's Secret Mission to eliminate Syria and nuclear power. 719 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: It's available now on Amazon. Our listeners can follow your 720 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: work and I recommend it very highly by visiting your 721 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: website at yakovcuts dot com. And I've already put in 722 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: a bid for you to come back and do another 723 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: podcast when your next book comes out. 724 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 3: You got it, mister speaker. 725 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 2: It's always a huge honor and privilege to be able 726 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 2: to speak to you. 727 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Jakov Cuts. You can get 728 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: a link to buy his book Shadow Strike on our 729 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: show page at nutsworld dot com. Neitchwell is produced by 730 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 1: Gaming three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan. 731 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show 732 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team 733 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: at Gingish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld, I 734 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us 735 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 736 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of 737 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: Newtsworld consign up for my three freeweekly columns at ginglishtree 738 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Nutsworld.