Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome. Here we are the Office Deep Dive,
Speaker 1: and as always, it is me your host, Brian Baumgartner.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you made it. Why well, because today I
Speaker 1: would like to continue on the theme of last week's
Speaker 1: best of because I want to give the best to
Speaker 1: the best. That's right, I'm saying you're the best, and
Speaker 1: I am here to bring you more of my favorite
Speaker 1: moments from my last round of interviews. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a journey featuring some of your favorite Office cast
Speaker 1: and crew. So buckle up, strap it on, get ready
Speaker 1: to dive in. And where better to start than with
Speaker 1: the man who's been described as a teacher, a mentor,
Speaker 1: a role model, the Office Dad, and of course the
Speaker 1: world's best boss. Here is Steve Carrell on who Michael
Speaker 1: Scott is and what the Office would be like today.
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeak. On
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeaker cooking at every month lift over from
Speaker 1: the night before. Do you, as an actor do you
Speaker 1: always search for the good and the character that you're portraying. Sure,
Speaker 1: I think you have to, because otherwise you're just demonizing
Speaker 1: or judging the people that you're playing, and if you're
Speaker 1: judging a character that you're playing, you're gonna play it differently.
Speaker 1: You don't want to editorialize about a character plan. I
Speaker 1: think I think Michael's a decent a decent dude with
Speaker 1: a lot of heart, But he's so based on his childhood,
Speaker 1: based on all sorts of things and things that he
Speaker 1: had lacked growing up, things that he was I felt
Speaker 1: he was deprived of. He was so hungry for acceptance.
Speaker 1: But I don't think he had the strongest templates in
Speaker 1: the world to go by. But I think he also
Speaker 1: learned and evolved and um became a better person along
Speaker 1: the way. And he was just a bit a bit
Speaker 1: myopic and became more aware. Once he sort of was
Speaker 1: able to start stepping outside of himself and his own
Speaker 1: little eccentricities, he could see a little bit more about
Speaker 1: the world around him. I think one of the things
Speaker 1: about Michael is he's actually this and in terms of
Speaker 1: my interpretation of him, I feel like he would look
Speaker 1: out at all the people who worked with him, and
Speaker 1: it's like he would put his foot in his mouth
Speaker 1: all the time. But in a lot of ways, I
Speaker 1: don't think he ever valued one person or type of
Speaker 1: person over any other. And in that way, I think
Speaker 1: he was very pure character, because he's very dumb in
Speaker 1: terms of political correctness and being appropriate in public. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I don't I just don't think
Speaker 1: there was hardness in his heart towards anyone. He I
Speaker 1: think a person with an enormously good mind heart who
Speaker 1: lacked a great deal of information about the world around
Speaker 1: him and was as a sleep in a woke world
Speaker 1: as you could be, but trying his best, trying his best.
Speaker 1: And actually there's a difference between being intolerant and being ignorant,
Speaker 1: and and sometimes intolerance and ignorance go hand in hand,
Speaker 1: for sure they do. But I think he was a
Speaker 1: decent human being. Really, he just didn't get it all
Speaker 1: the time. Um, the show was happening my mom and dad,
Speaker 1: they had friends and they would say, we can't watch
Speaker 1: that show like that Michael Scott. He key makes me
Speaker 1: too uncomfortable. I can't watch that. And I always felt
Speaker 1: that this was came from a place of deep insecurity
Speaker 1: or like misogynistic or racist or homophobic feelings within himself,
Speaker 1: Like that's why it was uncomfortable at times. And then
Speaker 1: you came out thanks a lot for saying this. I
Speaker 1: get asked about it all the time that the show
Speaker 1: could never be made now. This was not exactly what
Speaker 1: I said. Okay, well, that's great because I have always
Speaker 1: said that I thought that Steve was misquoted in this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if it could be
Speaker 1: made now. Maybe it could. I I guess my point
Speaker 1: was that I think what I was trying to say
Speaker 1: was that that exact same show probably wouldn't be made today,
Speaker 1: but with the same components, the same actors, the same writers.
Speaker 1: If it were to come back, it would evolve into
Speaker 1: the version of what we did back then. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the writing would be a bit different in
Speaker 1: today's climate, but I don't think it would be any
Speaker 1: less insightful. I don't think it would be any less
Speaker 1: smart or any less funny. It would just be different,
Speaker 1: that's all. And I do think it would be different,
Speaker 1: and I think, I mean, Michael Scott would be much
Speaker 1: more tuned into what it is to be woke. He
Speaker 1: would not understand it necessarily, but he would be. The
Speaker 1: comedy would be coming from his struggle to understand and
Speaker 1: fit into the world as we know it today. Because
Speaker 1: the world as we knew it fifteen years ago is
Speaker 1: different than it is today. But you know, you take
Speaker 1: that same character who is trying to speak the language
Speaker 1: of modern times. That can be very funny, but it
Speaker 1: would just be different. It would just be a different
Speaker 1: set of rules for today. But I don't know. I um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you know. I think it's easy to say
Speaker 1: that you can't be funny, you can't do comedy this
Speaker 1: day and age. I think that's a bit of a
Speaker 1: cop out, because is every you know, every time you
Speaker 1: turn around, there is somebody coming up with something that
Speaker 1: is of the time and inventive and doesn't shirk away
Speaker 1: from our responsibility to look in the mirror. I think
Speaker 1: it just I think it just takes a level of
Speaker 1: intelligence to be able to do that. Now, Steve may
Speaker 1: be kind and self reflective and understanding, but Michael Scott
Speaker 1: wasn't always, at least not to one particular h R rep.
Speaker 1: So when it was time for me to talk to
Speaker 1: Paul Lieberstein, I couldn't wait to ask him about being
Speaker 1: the man that everyone loved to hate. There's another relationship
Speaker 1: that I think was maybe my favorite in the show.
Speaker 1: Will you play that clip? Why are you the way
Speaker 1: that you are? Honestly, every time I try to do
Speaker 1: something be fun or exciting, you make it not that way.
Speaker 1: I hate so much about the things that you choose
Speaker 1: to be. I mean that when was the idea for
Speaker 1: that born? It wasn't born in diversity. Steve wrote that speech, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he hated. And when I was watching some of those
Speaker 1: things last night, I mean his face anytime he is
Speaker 1: looking at you and angry at you in a way
Speaker 1: is completely trans He almost looks like a different person,
Speaker 1: and he's his energy. And at one point he's like,
Speaker 1: I hate your lemon head or it's just crazy. It's
Speaker 1: like I'm a Nazi and he thinks he's doing a
Speaker 1: service to the world by hating me. Well that, well,
Speaker 1: that's the other famous one, right, Like if I had
Speaker 1: two bullets and there was Hitler, Ben Laden and Toby,
Speaker 1: I would use both bullets and kill Toby. I think
Speaker 1: it happened in Meredith's birthday and we all had to
Speaker 1: sign that card. So I just had to go in
Speaker 1: and said, oh, can I have a card and sign
Speaker 1: something really quickly and leave, and he would just watch
Speaker 1: me do it the whole time. Take after take it,
Speaker 1: he was just standing there watching and he told me
Speaker 1: afterwards that he felt like the hate for me just
Speaker 1: just well up inside him during these takes. So it
Speaker 1: was so from that moment. Is that why you guys
Speaker 1: decided to write that story in or to continue that,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of it he would. I think
Speaker 1: the power of it came from Steve, you know, and
Speaker 1: he would always do more. Even starting with Diversity Day.
Speaker 1: He was just supposed to say he would, you know,
Speaker 1: get out or something like that, but he did more.
Speaker 1: He relished the moment and played with it. And I
Speaker 1: think he continues to do that. And really, you know,
Speaker 1: when we had these thirty six minute cuts and had
Speaker 1: to decide what would stay, when Steve loved something, he
Speaker 1: the performance would be amazing. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: helped so much of the Toby Michael stuff stay right.
Speaker 1: Just his pure power and just the pure power of
Speaker 1: his like, yeah, being being there, corral genius. Oh yes,
Speaker 1: the power of hatred. Never thought I'd say that on
Speaker 1: this podcast. But Toby wasn't the only thing that brought
Speaker 1: out the best in Steve. He was so consistently, so
Speaker 1: amazing to work with every scene every day. Here's what
Speaker 1: Craig Robinson had to say Darryll's relationship with Michael in
Speaker 1: the show, it was a very like he kept coming
Speaker 1: to you for advice, particularly on black culture. It was
Speaker 1: a very very funny dynamic. What was your experience working
Speaker 1: with Steve? He's the greatest. The way he could turn
Speaker 1: it comedy button off and on like a falsett. It
Speaker 1: was just genius to me. Whenever I had a scene
Speaker 1: with him on and I was like titilation, you know,
Speaker 1: very exciting, and I learned from him, stole from him
Speaker 1: all of that. Yeah, it's funny that you said you
Speaker 1: said that because I thought you were going to say
Speaker 1: something else, which I think is also true. Is part
Speaker 1: of his genius is how he turns so quick, even
Speaker 1: within a scene, you know what I mean, Like he
Speaker 1: is he is fighting down one path and something may
Speaker 1: happen and he just turns it like that and he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, ultimate scene partner two. He listens and reacts two,
Speaker 1: you know what's going on? Like we had a scene
Speaker 1: I didn't even really notice until it aired. It was
Speaker 1: a negotiation. It might be my favorite episode just because
Speaker 1: of the work I did with Steve and being able
Speaker 1: to play with him like that. It was the scene
Speaker 1: where he's like, I'm not going to speak first, like
Speaker 1: decline to speak first. So we did a couple of
Speaker 1: takes and it was fine, uh, and then he did
Speaker 1: his next take and he's making these faces and if
Speaker 1: you look closely, you could see Meet started crack a
Speaker 1: smile on that. But it was just like, without even speaking,
Speaker 1: he could, you know, pull this out of you. The
Speaker 1: laughter is like, oh, he's to get me. But also
Speaker 1: in that episode when I was saying, uh, where he
Speaker 1: listens and you know, like the perfect improvisation partner, you're
Speaker 1: listening to take it to the next level. So we're
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, getting raised from jan and I said,
Speaker 1: make it happen, Captain, he said, I will, Sergeant God amazing.
Speaker 1: Do you think that your relationship with him evolved throughout
Speaker 1: the show? Yeah, but I think everybody's everybody evolved in
Speaker 1: this show. Everybody I went through character development. Um, you
Speaker 1: know that's one of the things that makes it what
Speaker 1: it is. You people got to know these people, right.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think every every situation evolved to something.
Speaker 1: I mean, you started out and your episodes were mainly
Speaker 1: about like the office versus the warehouse, whether directly in
Speaker 1: basketball or like a weird class thing where you have
Speaker 1: like the white collar and the blue collar. Talk to
Speaker 1: me about the transition for you character wise or as
Speaker 1: an actor of you finally coming up and being a
Speaker 1: regular part of like the bullpen. Character wise, Um, it
Speaker 1: felt like like it did in real life, like oh
Speaker 1: many and making you a regular you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So definitely a move on up for Craig Infidaryl, you know.
Speaker 1: And it was like more responsibility. And Rain used to
Speaker 1: say I had the sweetest schedule in Hollywood because I
Speaker 1: would come in for like an episode here, and then
Speaker 1: four weeks later come in do the Christmas episode. But
Speaker 1: uh yeah, character whiz. It was it was like step
Speaker 1: up and Okay, they're starting to see, you know, starting
Speaker 1: to feeling Look, I know I've said it a million times,
Speaker 1: so it should go without saying that. We all loved
Speaker 1: working with Steve, but there was a time when we
Speaker 1: didn't get to do that anymore. That was a bit
Speaker 1: of a shock for us. We were excited and we
Speaker 1: trusted the process, but we were all scared too, and
Speaker 1: we all dealt with it differently. Kate Flannery talked to
Speaker 1: me about her, how do I say her particular process
Speaker 1: of handling the news the day she heard it. What
Speaker 1: do you remember about finding out that Steve was leaving?
Speaker 1: I literally was with Creed. We were on the side
Speaker 1: of the office doing like a satellite press junket um
Speaker 1: and we and they had announced it that morning, so
Speaker 1: every venue wanted to talk about it, and I was
Speaker 1: like wow, because of course it was emotional. I mean,
Speaker 1: who are we We're not I mean Michael Scott. You know,
Speaker 1: Michael Scott is thundermevient, he is the office. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was so freaked out. And really I told Creed
Speaker 1: him like, Okay, anytime they talk about this, just just
Speaker 1: pretend like we can't hear the feeld, like I think
Speaker 1: the feed's going. I'm sorry, I'm getting some interference. What
Speaker 1: was the question? Wishing him all the best? Like I
Speaker 1: we had this little thing where we would figure out
Speaker 1: how to get out of the conversation. So but I
Speaker 1: was I was definitely freaked out. And I mean, the
Speaker 1: great thing, the great thing about our show is that
Speaker 1: I feel like Greg Daniels is so trustworthy, and I
Speaker 1: feel like he's picked so many great writers, and I
Speaker 1: feel like if anything could have survived a couple more
Speaker 1: years without step Garrow, it was because of Greg Daniels.
Speaker 1: But I was nervous. I was, and I was nervous
Speaker 1: about Spader um just because he's not a comedy guy.
Speaker 1: And he's brilliant, but he's not a comedy guy. And
Speaker 1: I kind of had this little thing like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: he's holding the baby. He's gonna drop the baby. Don't
Speaker 1: drop the baby. And also I was intimidated because he's
Speaker 1: he's like a movie star and I had seen so
Speaker 1: many all of his movies, and you know, and there
Speaker 1: was so much sexual tension between the two of us,
Speaker 1: so much, but I felt like there was sexual tension
Speaker 1: between me Spader. They're they're probably even more even more. No, seriously, Spader,
Speaker 1: he liked anyone, right, there is sexual things Um. The
Speaker 1: season eight Christmas episode, there was one take where he's
Speaker 1: sort of like Meredith thinks she's actually made me gonna
Speaker 1: go to dinner with em or something like that, she's
Speaker 1: got a chance with him, and he sort of touches
Speaker 1: her cheeks like no, no, no, and she goes to
Speaker 1: hug me, and I literally one take, I grabbed his
Speaker 1: ass and then I was like immediately when we stoped,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I just felt like, oh my god, he goes, No,
Speaker 1: he goes. That was the right thing to do. Didn't
Speaker 1: end up using it, but I was like, don't grab
Speaker 1: James Spader's ask Kate what the wing. I was so nervous.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, oh no, oh no, Hey, listen,
Speaker 1: Navigating onset relationships can be weird for anyone, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure it doesn't help when you're playing Meredith Palmer. But hey,
Speaker 1: sounds like he was a okay with your decisions, Kate. Now,
Speaker 1: when Jenna sat down with me, we talked a lot
Speaker 1: about her own relationships with the cast, in particular Pam's
Speaker 1: relationship with Dwight and her personal relationship with Rain. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I talked again about sort of that emotional core.
Speaker 1: Dwight talk to me a little bit about the relationship
Speaker 1: between the two of you and how that changed and evolved.
Speaker 1: I mean, you were with Jim adversaries and made you
Speaker 1: crazy forever, and then ultimately by the end he says
Speaker 1: that you're his best friend. Dwight does Dwight, does you know.
Speaker 1: I think it's that first episode the Injury, when Pam
Speaker 1: has that line Dwight is kind of my friend. But
Speaker 1: I think there's other things. You know, Jim and Pam
Speaker 1: spends so much time teasing Dwight, and I think even
Speaker 1: go too far a few times. In my rewatching of
Speaker 1: the show, I think there's a few times when we're like,
Speaker 1: actually a little cruel to him that makes me cringe
Speaker 1: and I feel like, oh, that wasn't our best moment.
Speaker 1: But I appreciate because we allow our characters too. We
Speaker 1: don't all every day have perfect moments, right. But it's
Speaker 1: so hard for me to think about Pam's relationship with
Speaker 1: Dwight without thinking about my relationship to Rain. Rain is
Speaker 1: a deeply soulful person. He's also like a curmudgeon lee
Speaker 1: old man. He's really cranky sometimes and on set he
Speaker 1: would be hilarious. Do you remember the time Do you
Speaker 1: remember the time he declared, oh my god, it was
Speaker 1: so funny. We're getting ready to shoot and he said,
Speaker 1: hold on, weight, just hold on, everybody, hold on for
Speaker 1: a second. I have an announcement. Everyone on Monday's you
Speaker 1: do not need to ask me how my weekend was
Speaker 1: any more. All right, every single person asked me how
Speaker 1: my weekend was. Just assume it was fine. We were like,
Speaker 1: where is this comming from? Right? And I talked to
Speaker 1: him about this and he goes, Jenna, that is not true.
Speaker 1: I said that on a Tuesday. I said, only asked
Speaker 1: me how my weekend was on Mondays. No more of
Speaker 1: this bleeding into Tuesday Mondays. And he went crazy because
Speaker 1: you and I know what he was talking about, because
Speaker 1: it's five o'clock in the morning and every single person
Speaker 1: that you passed is like, hello, good morning, how was
Speaker 1: your weekend? And he what he was saying was like,
Speaker 1: you don't have to talk to me. We just saw
Speaker 1: each other on Friday night. We're good, We're good. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's so true. So he would be like that guy
Speaker 1: on this set. It was like so funny. But then
Speaker 1: at the same time, in moments of deep crisis, I
Speaker 1: have phoned him. I had a job offer that was
Speaker 1: going to take me out of town and would uproot
Speaker 1: my family for a period of time. I really wrestled
Speaker 1: with the decision. I called him and he counseled me.
Speaker 1: He is he has that in him, a type of counselor,
Speaker 1: and I value him so deeply in my life. But
Speaker 1: then like like he'll call me up and he'll be like,
Speaker 1: do you want to go to lunch? And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean because you sound like you want to go
Speaker 1: so bad, like is it a chore or do you
Speaker 1: want to go? Just like no, I want to lunch
Speaker 1: with you, Like, all right, let's go to lunch. And
Speaker 1: then you go to lunch, and I was just sort
Speaker 1: of like, are you liking our lunch? Are we having
Speaker 1: a good lunch? How are you tell me about you?
Speaker 1: And all so funny, But then like if I were
Speaker 1: to do you know what I mean? So it's like
Speaker 1: very much like the Pam Dwight where Pam will like
Speaker 1: be like, oh I love Dwight. I'm gonna go say
Speaker 1: something nice to him, and then he'll just be like,
Speaker 1: Pam something about knives, something about snakes or bears, and
Speaker 1: she's like yeah, okay, right, okay, But so I guess um,
Speaker 1: I feel deeply loved by Rain, and I think Pam
Speaker 1: fell deeply loved by Dwight as well, like they had
Speaker 1: a real bond, they really cared for one another eventually
Speaker 1: eventually yeah. Well, and it's similar to your relationship with Michael, right,
Speaker 1: I mean from where that relationship started and him fake
Speaker 1: firing you to him leaving and you you having sort
Speaker 1: of that final moment with him. Um, what did he
Speaker 1: say to you? Well, it wasn't so much what he
Speaker 1: said to me. Um. Paul Fie directed that episode Goodbye Michael,
Speaker 1: and Uh. We were at the airport and Paul Fiq said, Jenna,
Speaker 1: I want you to just run up and just say
Speaker 1: goodbye to Steve. Your friends Steve, this is your last
Speaker 1: scene with him, so say goodbye. We're not going to
Speaker 1: use the sound, We're just going to have a spy
Speaker 1: shot on you. I thought, okay, So I ran up
Speaker 1: to Steve and I just told him all the ways
Speaker 1: I was going to miss him and how grateful I
Speaker 1: was for his friendship and the privilege of working with him.
Speaker 1: And I'm sobbing and he's sobbing, and we're hugging and
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to let him go and I
Speaker 1: didn't want the scene to end. And then finally paulfy
Speaker 1: you know, says cut and he was like, Jenna, that
Speaker 1: was that was brilliant. Can you do it again? But
Speaker 1: just a little faster because it had been like five minutes.
Speaker 1: He was like, we just need to tighten it up
Speaker 1: a little because they wanted him to actually walk away
Speaker 1: and they had one camera. There was only one shot
Speaker 1: that they couldn't edit. Is so great. I was like,
Speaker 1: just tighten it up a little. But sweetie, great job.
Speaker 1: I guess he could tell. I was like, sobbing. Well,
Speaker 1: if that's not an indication of how much we all
Speaker 1: meant to each other, well then maybe this next clip
Speaker 1: will be. Claire Scanlon wasn't part of the cast, but
Speaker 1: she was an essential part of our crew, starting out
Speaker 1: as an editor and moving on to directing episodes of
Speaker 1: the show, and she certainly felt the love we had
Speaker 1: for each other. So you learned to edit scripted shows
Speaker 1: on the office, but really coming from you know, documentary,
Speaker 1: specifically comedy documentaries, this felt comfortable. Yeah. And also, by
Speaker 1: the way, like that same camaraderie that led to such
Speaker 1: a strong ensemble, it extended through I remember talking to
Speaker 1: John about this one time and we were just sitting
Speaker 1: I think he directed an episode. You know, I was ahead,
Speaker 1: so I would come to set pick John. I think
Speaker 1: you need to get this shot, you know, like you
Speaker 1: need to get this because otherwise how do we it
Speaker 1: was the bulldozer. Rain was taking a bulldozer in the
Speaker 1: warehouse and smashing it all and you needed the reverse
Speaker 1: and and I was like, I think you need that
Speaker 1: reverse and we were in there and he's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: no ego, Like it was fine for me to tell
Speaker 1: John and he needed this shot. Like I would come
Speaker 1: to set a lot, Dave would come to set a lot,
Speaker 1: and there was like, that's not normal, like that you
Speaker 1: always are inviting that. By the way, I always asked
Speaker 1: the editor to come to set. Why wouldn't I want
Speaker 1: an extra pair of eyes that might be catching something
Speaker 1: because I'm in the thick of it with five other
Speaker 1: questions like why wouldn't I want someone having my back.
Speaker 1: It's just a lovely thing to have. It's not about
Speaker 1: ego or power being a no tour, there's no such thing.
Speaker 1: First of all. But with John, we were cutting his
Speaker 1: episode and I remember just being like this is such
Speaker 1: a cool place to work, like being just truly grateful.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I am happy to come in
Speaker 1: here every day. And I was like he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's like there's not one person like that. You want
Speaker 1: to like put your head down when you see them
Speaker 1: walking down the hall. He's like, there's not one person
Speaker 1: that I'm like avoid, like where you're like in high
Speaker 1: school or your first job or something, or like that
Speaker 1: person sucks. He's like, there's not one. There were over
Speaker 1: a hundred people there and he couldn't come. And we,
Speaker 1: by the way, we were totally gossiping, Like he could
Speaker 1: have told me that there was no reason. There's no
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't tell this story if he actually
Speaker 1: named somebody, like but like we were like, come on,
Speaker 1: there's got to be somebody. Like everyone had their charm,
Speaker 1: you know, like everyone had the quirks, their piccadillos. Greg
Speaker 1: could drive me crazy and I would talk to him
Speaker 1: about it. But like that's crazy right there, Like the
Speaker 1: show runner could drive me crazy, and then I could say, Greg,
Speaker 1: you're driving me crazy. Like I remember on the finale,
Speaker 1: there was this whole tangent and I'm sure you'll remember
Speaker 1: this about planting a tree. Andy sees the tree in
Speaker 1: the office and says that tree planty, Yes, exactly, Planty
Speaker 1: has been in here all its life. We've got to
Speaker 1: set Planty free. And you guys go out to the
Speaker 1: parking lot, you plant planty and then you go all
Speaker 1: the way back up to the office, and then the
Speaker 1: ending and you hug, and then you go to the
Speaker 1: parking lot and you go to your respective cars, and
Speaker 1: that's truly the end of leaving dunder Mifflin and UM.
Speaker 1: I was writing notes down and we were over time
Speaker 1: for the finale and we were all Greg was incredibly emotional,
Speaker 1: but doing that guy thing where you don't let on
Speaker 1: that you're emotional, so you're just kind of weird, you know,
Speaker 1: like where you're just like heretic and sometimes irrational, but
Speaker 1: like what you really want to say is I'm really sad,
Speaker 1: but you're not going to say those words because you're
Speaker 1: a guy. So I was just taking out notes. We
Speaker 1: were too long, and I had already pitched to cut Planty,
Speaker 1: and I truly believed he said okay, while we tried
Speaker 1: cutting Planty, and I wrote it down and I did
Speaker 1: it and it was better because not because that whole
Speaker 1: storyline wasn't interesting, but it was just almost just the
Speaker 1: physicality of being in the office, having Creed play the
Speaker 1: song and then taking Planting down to the parking lotning.
Speaker 1: It was like a hiccup to something wonderful. You didn't
Speaker 1: need that hiccup. It just it was just an unnecessary
Speaker 1: extra beat. As sweet and poignant as it was, there
Speaker 1: were already like ten sweet and poignant moments that were
Speaker 1: happening with Creed Song, and too much poignancy diluted what
Speaker 1: was there. So I cut planting and Howard happened to
Speaker 1: be walking by, and I showed it to Howard, and
Speaker 1: Greg's assistant Alyssa was also walking by, and I showed
Speaker 1: it to her and they both separately went to Gregg
Speaker 1: and said, oh my god, it's so much better without planting.
Speaker 1: And he came storming into my bay and he said,
Speaker 1: you put that back in? How dare you? I never
Speaker 1: you're sabotaging me. You're trying to get And I was
Speaker 1: like what he was at a hundred? I was like,
Speaker 1: bring it down. I said, first of all, I would
Speaker 1: never intentionally do something to sabotage you that. I was like,
Speaker 1: if you don't know that about me by now, I
Speaker 1: am just I am not that person. I'm just I
Speaker 1: don't even think I could sabotage someone if I tried,
Speaker 1: Like if that was my goal, I said, you created
Speaker 1: this show. I am here to service what you created
Speaker 1: and help you realize what you want. And he calmed down,
Speaker 1: like he was like, so first let's get this paranoia
Speaker 1: outs that they happened to be walking by, which was
Speaker 1: true on both counts. They have maybe and that would
Speaker 1: happen all the time. By the way, we would just
Speaker 1: be wide by whether doors open, because it would get
Speaker 1: in sufferably hot and interesting things that I would walk
Speaker 1: by a people's bays and poke my head. And it
Speaker 1: was just a very inclusive environment. When people are waiting
Speaker 1: for their next scene and they were born of being
Speaker 1: in their trailer, they'd come and show me something and
Speaker 1: it wasn't show me myself. It was like, hey, what
Speaker 1: you got that's funny, show me a funny scene, Like
Speaker 1: I just want to see what's going on in the show,
Speaker 1: Like actors would come in all the time. So he said, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll show me, and then I showed it to him
Speaker 1: and he's like, okay, leave it out. But like it
Speaker 1: was like I had to talk him off, alledge. I
Speaker 1: think that's what makes him so interesting is he does
Speaker 1: clearly have and I think it was for the better
Speaker 1: ultimately for the show. This I don't want to say
Speaker 1: inferiority complex, but this like someone's always going to try
Speaker 1: to get one over on me kind of thing going on,
Speaker 1: Like and you're just you almost have to, Like like
Speaker 1: with every coworker and or boss, I think you kind
Speaker 1: of have to just to really get to know their psychology.
Speaker 1: And you're working with this, you know, pound really Greg Daniels,
Speaker 1: who's so so so smart and so funny that like
Speaker 1: to stand up to him require some hotspun your own,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of empowering. And I always did it.
Speaker 1: I didn't always, you know, I had confidence in what
Speaker 1: he had created, so I wanted to make sure it
Speaker 1: was the best version of what was written and acted.
Speaker 1: And I'd make good arguments and then he'd make great
Speaker 1: counter argument. We have a really good discourse to get
Speaker 1: to lock. And I think that was also very unique
Speaker 1: and special. You know, I always have Greg in my
Speaker 1: head when I'm directing, because I heard his opinion on
Speaker 1: everybody else's, you know, as an editor, I heard what
Speaker 1: he thought of every director, and he thought the world
Speaker 1: of many and then like sometimes he'd be like, how
Speaker 1: could they not have gotten that? Like, and I always
Speaker 1: in my mind, like let's just do one more, like
Speaker 1: thinking like what didn't I get what would Greg be like,
Speaker 1: how can they have gotten that? You know, I always
Speaker 1: want to have that showrunner in the back of my
Speaker 1: head saying and that showrunner's voice, because Greg was my
Speaker 1: first is always Greg. You know, I don't think that
Speaker 1: there's a single person who worked on the Office that
Speaker 1: hasn't been forever changed by it. When we started, we
Speaker 1: were all just trying to find our footing right and
Speaker 1: then we created this beautiful thing together that we were
Speaker 1: all so proud of. Here's Phillis on what it was
Speaker 1: like when the day we were dreading finally came. You know,
Speaker 1: when you you talked about when the show ended in
Speaker 1: after the ninth season, that was a tough tough night,
Speaker 1: especially when Creeds started singing. But for me, it was
Speaker 1: really tough like months later after the show had ended
Speaker 1: and we generally would go back to work around July
Speaker 1: or August, that's when it set in that, oh, this
Speaker 1: is life's different now, you know, we're not going back. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I sat down with Greg before that last season
Speaker 1: or moving into the finale and we started talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, my life's journey at that point through the
Speaker 1: Office and Kevin and my experience was um people feeling
Speaker 1: like they knew me and specifically feeling like I was
Speaker 1: the guy that they wanted to get a drink with,
Speaker 1: and I would I said something to him like Greg,
Speaker 1: I can't go into a bar without getting bought multiple drinks.
Speaker 1: Like they just come to the point I say no,
Speaker 1: I'm good, No, thank you, no, I'm good. Now, I
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta stop now. Guys, at least people that
Speaker 1: call you Kevin you know that they know you from
Speaker 1: this show. You me When people say Phyllis, I have
Speaker 1: to think for a moment, Okay, do I have our
Speaker 1: paths crossed for a moment, do I know you? Or
Speaker 1: But in reality I do know them or they know
Speaker 1: me because I've been in their bedroom, in their living room,
Speaker 1: in their kitchen, and before they go to work and
Speaker 1: as they go to sleep, and so we are a
Speaker 1: part of our fans lives, you know, absolutely, But at
Speaker 1: least you can decipher yours a little better with Kevin
Speaker 1: and Brian, That's true. I've never thought about that before
Speaker 1: Phyllis or Creed or Oscar or Angela yea, and especially
Speaker 1: if they say, oh I saw you, and I'm thinking, okay, now,
Speaker 1: did I you know did I go to school with
Speaker 1: them or what? Right? That's actually the most difficult. Well,
Speaker 1: I have two difficult fan interactions. One is I'll be
Speaker 1: at a at a serious place of business, like like
Speaker 1: in a thing, and I'm meeting someone. Or I have
Speaker 1: a good friend who's introducing me to a good friend
Speaker 1: who says like, oh, we've met before, right, And I
Speaker 1: immediately go, no, I know we haven't, And I know
Speaker 1: why you think that we've met before. But then to
Speaker 1: say that, you become like, I don't know, You're like,
Speaker 1: you know, I was on a television show, you know, like,
Speaker 1: so this is an actual thing, you guys. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's fiction blurring with reality or what. But
Speaker 1: a lot of people confuse us for their real life friends.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying we should we shouldn't be friends,
Speaker 1: or we wouldn't be friends. I'm just saying that I
Speaker 1: have never met you before. When I talked to John,
Speaker 1: he had some really great insight as to why this
Speaker 1: phenomenon continues to take place. You obviously wildly successful. When
Speaker 1: people approach you, Now, what percentage of it is about
Speaker 1: the office? Oh? Large majority. Again, I think it's the
Speaker 1: difference between fans who feel like they're a part of
Speaker 1: something and fans who have watched something. I think there's
Speaker 1: very few things that I watched when I was a
Speaker 1: kid that I felt so connected to. It was more like, oh,
Speaker 1: I like the movie ET, But there were very few
Speaker 1: things that I felt like, if I ever saw that person,
Speaker 1: we shared a life moment together. Had I ever met
Speaker 1: Chris Farley, I would have said that because I watched
Speaker 1: Tommy Boy so many times that he didn't know he
Speaker 1: was my best friend, but he was my best friend.
Speaker 1: So I think that thing is like I shared so
Speaker 1: much in my life with that show. That's why I
Speaker 1: think that people, you know, people have seen other things,
Speaker 1: which is great. Certainly recently, like I think quiet place
Speaker 1: in Jack Ryan, people are coming up a lot more.
Speaker 1: But I think our fans see me and instead of
Speaker 1: going up to an actor to get a picture or something,
Speaker 1: they're actually seeing a friend of theirs. Is my point,
Speaker 1: My long meandering point is no one looks at Jack Ryan.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, my buddy, Jack Ryan,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're an actor. I didn't realize they
Speaker 1: do think that with Jim and I've had. My favorite
Speaker 1: experiences with fans is when they think we've gone to
Speaker 1: school together or something that's my favorite. Like I had
Speaker 1: one where a woman said we know each other and
Speaker 1: I said do we? And she goes, we went to
Speaker 1: school together and I was like, I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: think we did, and she went, yes, we did. And
Speaker 1: it was like that thing of like why am I
Speaker 1: being awkward about it? And where did you go to school?
Speaker 1: And she said some school and I went, I did
Speaker 1: not go to that school and she went, yes, you did,
Speaker 1: and like I was like okay, and then I left
Speaker 1: and I could see that either someone else has been
Speaker 1: like you don't know that person, You just thought that
Speaker 1: it was at the Airport bookshop, and then through the
Speaker 1: window you saw them being like silence, being like, oh no,
Speaker 1: god it was. But I think that that's such a
Speaker 1: credit to the show that you don't just like the show,
Speaker 1: you actually think you know those people. Yes, because I
Speaker 1: I By the way, I'm not necessarily comparing you to
Speaker 1: Ted dancing in exactly the same way, No, but I
Speaker 1: just mean like Ted Danson was doing a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff and immediately after Cheers, but there was something about
Speaker 1: Cheers Sam alone that everything else not even that other
Speaker 1: things wouldn't have been as good or better. But Cheers
Speaker 1: was what I shared because there was a purity to
Speaker 1: that experience that you had watched the same with me.
Speaker 1: I mean I was. I grew up in Boston, like
Speaker 1: Cheers was a form of like television, religion or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will take a comparison to ted dancing anytime. Then
Speaker 1: I won't do that again. God damn it. Here, put
Speaker 1: on these airphones. I want you to hear something. I'm
Speaker 1: playing something for everybody. Boy. Um, we should have had
Speaker 1: these on the whole time. I would have. I would
Speaker 1: have changed my voice. Um, don't ever ever when I
Speaker 1: have a earphones on and I have your tone right
Speaker 1: in my ear, don't talk low like that. My voice
Speaker 1: slips and nope, I just would have slips around. I
Speaker 1: don't like that in my heard. I don't like your
Speaker 1: voice slipping around in my ear. Um, we play clip
Speaker 1: six for me, Clip six. I thought it was weird
Speaker 1: when you picked us to make a documentary, But all
Speaker 1: in all, I think an ordinary paper company like dunder
Speaker 1: Mifflin was a great subject for a documentary. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of
Speaker 1: the point. So Gregg wrote that clearly for him that
Speaker 1: was the point. What did you think the point was
Speaker 1: the point of what shooting the show? The show? Yeah? Sorry,
Speaker 1: my brain just exploded again. Um. I think that that
Speaker 1: is so beautiful, that writing, and I would only suspect
Speaker 1: that it came from someone who created the show, because
Speaker 1: someone who creates the show and doesn't just act on
Speaker 1: the show would have to have in their head a beginning, middle,
Speaker 1: and end. And you're shooting for something, and I love
Speaker 1: that that's what he was shooting for. What are you
Speaker 1: most thankful for? Oh my god, everything? I mean, are
Speaker 1: you asking me as a person? Well, I mean, without
Speaker 1: sounding hyperball, it's it is my everything. I mean, that
Speaker 1: show changed my entire life. Was twenty three when it started,
Speaker 1: so I hadn't even really formed an identity of who
Speaker 1: I was. And so that show, not only from a
Speaker 1: career perspective, where I've had more opportunity than I ever
Speaker 1: would have dreamt of having for one day, I have
Speaker 1: for an entire lifetime, is all due to that show.
Speaker 1: I never would be doing any other or thing that
Speaker 1: you've seen me do, writing, directing, acting, and something else
Speaker 1: if it wasn't for that show. But as a person,
Speaker 1: I think it sort of gave me this very quintessential
Speaker 1: building block that I got to stand on to build
Speaker 1: the rest of my life. Yeah, you're you're about to say,
Speaker 1: that's all crack of ship. Know what? What? What? What
Speaker 1: would you say? I think it's very similar. I think
Speaker 1: I was processing what you were saying that because of
Speaker 1: the people who were working on it, not just the actors,
Speaker 1: but the writers who are like all showrunners now from
Speaker 1: the early season, you know, shore extremely successful, fun good shows.
Speaker 1: It's but also our crew. Like you said, like you
Speaker 1: know again in a very probably lame, cliche hallmark way,
Speaker 1: like I don't know that as a person I would
Speaker 1: be able to have the luxury forget you know, success
Speaker 1: or finance or anything. It's the luxury of being who
Speaker 1: I wanted to be. I didn't know who I wanted
Speaker 1: to be. And because of such a warm environment where
Speaker 1: if everyone had a color, people were splashing their experience
Speaker 1: and their colors all over me, I got exposed to
Speaker 1: everything I wanted to be and then got to choose
Speaker 1: to move forward with my life in a way that
Speaker 1: I not only didn't know existed, but that I could sustain.
Speaker 1: Like that you could you could do fantastic, fun stuff
Speaker 1: every day for ten years of your life. And genuinely
Speaker 1: I've been asked. I'm sure you get asked all the time,
Speaker 1: what year were you guys all over it? Like? When
Speaker 1: were you guys like we're over it? And I genuinely
Speaker 1: am trying not to look back with revisionist history. I
Speaker 1: don't remember one moment where I was like, such a job,
Speaker 1: that's just such a yeah, as far as jobs go, John,
Speaker 1: You're right, you can't beat it. And maybe that's obvious
Speaker 1: by now as I've spent the last couple of years
Speaker 1: putting together this love story to the office, but thinking
Speaker 1: back on the very end, our last moments working together
Speaker 1: as one big, happy family, there's no better way to
Speaker 1: bring me right back to that place the moment the
Speaker 1: show was ending. Then to listen to Creed Bratton sing
Speaker 1: All the Faces before the finale? Did you have a
Speaker 1: conversation with Greg? Yes? Yes, he he called me and
Speaker 1: you know he'd asked everybody. He said, I want to
Speaker 1: know what your your feedback is, how do you think
Speaker 1: the character Creed should leave? And I told him I
Speaker 1: thought it well, and I said, I think this is
Speaker 1: this song of mine, All the faces I could be
Speaker 1: at poor Richards playing my guitar. You guys, the cast
Speaker 1: all walks in and I'm singing all the faces and
Speaker 1: the camera comes in on each of you, and he said,
Speaker 1: I like that idea. That's the last I heard of
Speaker 1: it until the table read. And then I saw at
Speaker 1: that time and I almost cried, I literally and Brian,
Speaker 1: I went, oh my god. Looked around. There was my guitar.
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was going to sing that song
Speaker 1: until the table read. That was the first time I
Speaker 1: heard about it. They kept they kept it, They kept
Speaker 1: it just as a surprise. It was emotional. Wait they
Speaker 1: they had your guitar. Yeah, now, the the p A
Speaker 1: went and got my guitar and had it there. And
Speaker 1: I looked around like this, and I went and I
Speaker 1: see reading the scripting, but oh my god, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: sing this song. And what there is gregs letting me
Speaker 1: sing my song. And look around they're they're all they're
Speaker 1: standing bick they're smiling, and they got my guitar. They
Speaker 1: planned this, you know, we play. Will you play a
Speaker 1: little bit for me? All right? Okay, I gotta tear
Speaker 1: my phone on just for second, guys to uh tune
Speaker 1: up this acts this is the guitar I used actually
Speaker 1: on the on the show. This this old Martin and John.
Speaker 1: It's a good story. John. We couldn't get the microphone
Speaker 1: on the think and then the shot so Krazinski said,
Speaker 1: he hold this the shotgun. He had it under his
Speaker 1: arm when we were recording. You couldn't hide him, mind,
Speaker 1: I couldn't hide the mic for the guitar itself. And
Speaker 1: then John said, well, I'll just hold the shotgun mic
Speaker 1: under my arm because he was the closest. He was
Speaker 1: the closest to me, and and he was sitting there
Speaker 1: talking to looking over Pampit all the time. He's holding
Speaker 1: him right there on the sound hole. He's a team player,
Speaker 1: right boy? We know that all right for you. I
Speaker 1: saw a friend to day. It had been a while
Speaker 1: and we forgot each other's name, but it didn't matter,
Speaker 1: because deep inside feelings do of re means. We talked
Speaker 1: of knowing one before you've met, how you feel more
Speaker 1: than you see, and other worlds that lie spaces in
Speaker 1: between angels. We can see all the faces that I
Speaker 1: know have that same familiar glue. I think I must
Speaker 1: have known them somewhere once. Beefful. All the faces that
Speaker 1: I know, and all the faces were seeking chen airvery day.
Speaker 1: When we get home at night, there's one face, sweety.
Speaker 1: And when my mind's absorbed on my private little screen
Speaker 1: and I'm walking, climbing through a sea of unknown men,
Speaker 1: I hear a voice reminded they're across the street, walks
Speaker 1: an old forgotten friends. We don't have to say a word.
Speaker 1: It's really better left unsaid, just light through as that
Speaker 1: recognize all the faces, all the faces I know, And
Speaker 1: while the faces we see each in air day, when
Speaker 1: we get home at night, there's one face we knee
Speaker 1: all the faces I see eachin every day when I
Speaker 1: get home at night, face I need when I get
Speaker 1: home at night, You're the only face I need. So great,
Speaker 1: there we go, so great, dude, Yeah it um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it gets me every time. Wow, it gets me every
Speaker 1: single time. Thank you Creed, Thank you everyone for being
Speaker 1: a part of this beautiful podcast. It is meant more
Speaker 1: to be than you will ever know. Thanks for tuning
Speaker 1: in once again, and come back next week to hear
Speaker 1: from perhaps my most special guest of all you. I'll
Speaker 1: see you that the office. Deep Dive is hosted and
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner alongside our executive producer Langley.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Liz
Speaker 1: Hayes and Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth
Speaker 1: is Alec More. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed
Speaker 1: by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was
Speaker 1: mixed by Seth O'landscape