WEBVTT - Using AI To Speed Up the Covid Vaccination Process 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.920 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:05.760 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanabek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.280 you the latest news from the world's of business and finance, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:12.120 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.600 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.480 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.720 Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.600 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.320 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:31.000 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. So much going on, and 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.040 obviously we're going to talk more about the crazy silver trade. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:35.760 We talked a little bit about that already, but also 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.839 a little bit more on Robin Hood and Reddit um. 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.559 Keep in mind, though it is Tim and I just mentioned, 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.839 we are seeing um record numbers of deaths in the 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.839 United States when it comes to COVID in January, the 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.840 worst month since the pandemic began. We see crisis talks 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.200 over vaccine access going on in Europe. There's so much 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.560 going on, so let's see what our next guest has 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.080 to say about it. He is Shawn Lane. He's the 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.040 CEO of all of which is building a healthcare AI workforce. 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.120 They're working with more than forty healthcare organizations made up 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.000 of more than six hospitals, you know, for forty one 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.360 states across the US. And m Sean joins us on 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.520 the phone in Columbus, Ohio. Shown great to have you 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.880 here with Tim and myself. How are you and tell 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:18.960 us about your team and how they're doing and how 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:23.760 the pandemic has impacted your world. Thanks, Carol's good to 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.600 be here. UM. Well, first and foremost, I mean, last 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.480 year was an incredible year for UM, for healthcare, I mean, 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:35.440 under complete duress. You know, they already were disconnected, UM. 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:37.319 You know, their systems didn't talk to each other, and 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.080 then you compound that with the pandemic and it was 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.200 just a really difficult time. But you know, we we persevered. UM. 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.000 You know all of that. The company really, you know, 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.800 started to engage with our health systems early to see 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.320 if there was anything we could do, and we were 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.280 helping them with all the administrative burdens excuse me, all 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:00.400 the administrative burdens that they were experiencing during the endemic. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:04.960 So you know, you can imagine, um, a rush of 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.680 right now vaccinations. It's a huge issue and we're just 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.200 trying to help them work through all the administrative challenges 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:13.400 that they're they're facing. How do you do that, Sean? 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:15.520 I mean, this is something that we are seeing have 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:19.000 a bumpy rollout to to say the least, Um, how 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.080 do you at all have help with that process and 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:25.520 help get these shots and arms? So our AI workers 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:29.200 can take on administrative tasks that are brought on by 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.960 the vaccination. So in order for a person to get vaccinated, 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.400 they have to be registered. Um, there's a lot of 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:40.400 steps involved administratively, take that and multiply it by you know, 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:42.560 even in a in a single health system, they probably 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:47.240 have twenty thousand employees. To multiply that administrative workload times 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.560 twenty thousand and then multiply it by over three million 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.320 for the entire US population and it's just an incredible 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.720 mountain of work. So all of us, we train all 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:58.600 of to go in and do that administrative work, to 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.400 fill out those registration for ORMs, to check all the 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.040 boxes necessary to submit all the applications so that it 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.640 can happen more quickly. So give me an example if 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.200 I'm a patient, so what's the experience that I that 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.519 I'll go through. So normally you would have to fill 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.239 out a lot of forms, you'd have to um take 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.720 on a lot of manual processes, and then somebody who 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.440 works at the health system would have to transpose all 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.639 that into their system of record, you know, maybe it's 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.200 an E m R or a registration system. In the 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.839 case with all of you don't have to fill out 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.680 all those forms. That registration happens automatically. All of is 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.240 going to take on the task affilion out the forms 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.120 and transposing it into the system of record, so saving 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.000 not only patient time, but also saving the hospital workers 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:45.760 an immense amount of time. Hey, Sean, how do you 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.720 get hospitals on board with this, especially during a time 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.440 when you know they are focused with their resources on 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:55.240 getting people vaccinated and in some in some cases, Sean, look, 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.400 they're they're worried about paying the bills because they've had 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.840 to give up elective surgeries and the like. Yeah, that's 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.280 absolutely right. So we you know, all of it is 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.760 considered a critical infrastructure resource, so all of it is 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:09.480 there to keep the lights on to make sure the 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.560 bill still get paid. To make sure the claim still 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.320 gets submitted so that the hospitals are getting paid from 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:18.040 the insurance companies. And since we're there, you know, working 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.919 side by side the human workers anyway. Um during the pandemic, 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.080 anytime there was a huge administrative burden, they would turn 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:26.800 to all of and ask if we could do anything 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.080 to help. So it was really we were just you know, 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.560 in the right place, working side by side them anyway. 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:34.680 So when these opportunities came up to help them with 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:39.040 things like vaccinations, we were there to move quickly. So, man, 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:40.920 we would all love it to move more quickly when 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.240 it comes to vaccines getting out there now, minds you. 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.280 In some cases it's a supply issue at this point, 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.520 but in other places it seems like there are vaccines, 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.919 but it's just not getting out to people. How have 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.280 you been able to maybe step in and help or 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.800 are you having any conversations on a federal level to 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:00.719 maybe help within this process. So we haven't we haven't 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.080 been asked to do this, you know, across the board 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:07.000 from a federal perspective. But you know, initially we started 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:11.000 by just really helping the front line workers take on 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:15.039 these administrative burdens, and then slowly we were we've moved 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.279 into more of the supply chain problem. And supply chain 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:24.560 is a complex logistics challenge and oftentimes more advanced machine 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.680 learning can help with that right to determine where the 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:30.800 where the supply should be, where can you store it, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.559 how to make sure you're meeting demand. So we're moving 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.520 into the more sophisticated help to get the get the 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.080 vaccinations out to who needs it. But ultimately, you know, 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.240 the health systems get the right to choose who's helping 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.680 them do that. There's not a federal mandate right now. Hey, 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:47.760 one thing that's interesting about what you guys have done 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:49.880 at all of is is early on in the pandemic 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.000 you said you were going to allow workers to remain 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.800 remote on a on a permanent basis um. What was 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.600 the decision there and and how are you thinking about 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.640 that post pandemic. So, you know, as this started to 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.880 unfold and we moved to this remote as we call 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.560 it a distributed work model, really we just our leadership 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.240 had the foresight to say, we don't think this is 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.000 going to be something that happens temporarily. We think work 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.840 is changing. We think the nature of work is going 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.039 to be changed forever, so we wanted to get ahead 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.520 of it. We didn't want to be reactionary. Instead, we 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.640 wanted to kind of determine and dictate the terms of 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:29.839 how we would work. So we came up with a 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.240 model called the Grid basically said from this point forward, 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:35.760 you know, we're gonna have a distributed and flexible system, 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.440 and we're gonna let people choose where they work and 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.200 across the country. And as the company, we grew from 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.960 employees to have about five employees in January last year's 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.680 we're about five sixty today. And we wouldn't be able 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:50.880 to do that incredible growth if it wasn't for the 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.719 Grid model. All Right, we're gonna leave it on that note. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.200 He listened. Um, Sean, thank you so much and look 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.120 forward to hearing more down the road. Seawan Laney's CEO 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.320 of It All of phone from Columbus, Ohio. This as 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.479 New York new virus cases fall below ten thousand for 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.119 the first time since December. So a little bit about 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.480 beating news. Tim, Yeah, nice to end on a little 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.680 bit of good news. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:18.920 Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Look, 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:20.680 Carrol I said it a few minutes ago. If you're 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.520 a business journalist, the game stops story is one that 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.360 keeps on giving. And I gotta tell you, I'm grateful 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.760 to have colleagues like Annie Massa and Mr Laney Gafa 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.520 Pulu who are doing a ton of the legwork on 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.600 reporting out this story. Any Massa's investing reporter for Bloomberg News, 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.840 and she joins us now on the phone from New 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.720 York City. Hey, Annie, Um, your latest story asked the 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:45.400 question about Robin Hood's business. This is a company that 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.120 has absolutely been the darling over the last year and 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.680 even longer of many venture capitalists. But take us into 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.640 the issues that it's had to struggle with this week 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.440 as we've seen this unprecedented story play out on Wall Street. 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.800 Absolutely it has been a real world and her Robin Hood. 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.000 In the past few days, we just saw the company 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.560 announced that it's raised another two point four billion dollars 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:10.560 on top of a billion dollars last week, which it 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:14.560 will use We're reporting to post collateral at the central 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.240 clearinghouse UM for the industry. Now, just stepping back for 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.720 a minute, what's been going on is robin Hood was 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.000 a key platform for users to purchase some of these 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.600 mean stocks like game Stop and a MC in the 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.600 past several kind of chaotic trading days, and all of 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.920 that volume has put immense pressure on robin Hood to 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.720 come up with additional cash at the central body that 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.200 clears trades in the industry. So that's all led to 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.360 this kind of wild environment that we've been um seeing 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.800 and tracking in the past couple of days. I also 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:49.439 think it's interesting and we're going to talk a bit 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.520 more about this later on about the role of Citadel. 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.840 It's feels like, you know, it's the Kevin Bacon of 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.000 the game Stop, you know, for francy trading anything. Everything 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.199 kind of seems to lead act to citadel Um. Citadel, 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.000 as you note in your story, is a crucial piece 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.640 of robin Hood's revenue. And it's kind of interesting that 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.360 we're learning about kind of first of all, how you 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.360 clear trades and how it all works on Wall Street, 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.240 but also these kind of interesting relationships I feel like 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:21.160 between kind of smaller investor investing platforms and larger investing platforms. Yeah, 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.520 it's really interesting to watch in real time because you 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.800 take something simple, like the fact that robin Hood put 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.040 the brakes on trading for certain securities last week and 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.520 has been slowly coming back from some of the trade 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.040 caps that they put in place. You know, that moment 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.480 really sparked anger among some of its users, and they've 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.960 been venting their frustration online about all of this. But 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.600 you take something that simple, and then robin Hood has 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.800 been kind of rushing to explain like these kind of 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.560 arcane market structure issues. Now, like, here's the reason we 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.680 did it. It doesn't It didn't come up the behest 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.200 of Citadel, it didn't come up the behest of any 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.920 other Wall Street intermediary to to the risk management issue. 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.000 But I mean, that's a very hard thing to explain 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.160 very rapidly to millions of users. The Citadel link is 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.319 that Citadel Securities, which is the market making arm um 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.520 of or the market maker uh that's owned by Ken Griffin, 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:23.400 is connected very tightly to robin Hood. And the connection 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.120 is that robin Hood sends its orders to be filled 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.720 its customer orders to be filled by Citadel Securities, and 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:35.320 Citadel Securities pays robin Hood to send those orders its way. 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.599 And though although robin Hood, you know, does, has a 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.800 lot of these different relationships with different market makers. Citadel 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.000 Securities is the biggest one. And this is so called 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.800 payment for order flow, right, yes, so this is again 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:52.559 like getting into these complicated kind of guts of wall streets. 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.640 But um, that is that's the payment for order flow systems. 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.360 And well, it's gonna say any because we only have 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.600 a little time left. Um, is there any concern that 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.600 robin Hood's customers are going to start rejecting the robin 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.640 Hood app after what happens last week? Because if you know, 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.120 I gotta tell you, seeing three point four billion dollars 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.680 pour into the company in a matter of days tells 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:16.360 me that investors are certainly believing in it. And we 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:20.120 only have about thirty seconds. Absolutely, so it's vc investors 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.320 are still standing by it. To see three point four 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.559 billion dollars pour in and just a couple of days 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.240 is truly staggering. And you know, it will have to 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.160 keep its customers happy as well. Um, and I'm sure 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.760 that they still believe in the company after after these 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.280 kind of wild days we've just seen, hey, just really 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.120 quickly ten seconds as robin Hood lost to any customers 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:42.400 that we know of the retail investors. Some have defected, 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.160 although there was one report today that said on Friday, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.680 right in the middle of all this mayhem, um, the 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.600 company actually managed to attract six hundred thousand new app downloads, 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:56.680 which is wild. Oh yeah, yeah um. As to mention, 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:58.280 this is the story that's going to keep on giving 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.200 for some time. Any greatf you have just been spot 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.760 on with the rest of our team, Bloomberg News investing 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.120 reporter Annie Massa on the phone in New York City. No, 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:07.920 it's kind of interesting, right, you know, they're trying to 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:12.880 stay true to their initial clients who gave them the momentum. Tim, 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.559 but you do wonder about kind of these tricky relationships 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.320 between you know, Citadel and some others, and very briefly, 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.240 care I gotta tell you other competitors to robin Hood 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.840 are now saying, hey, we're no longer doing payment for 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:26.280 it to flow. We're going to try something else out. 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.000 So they're trying to seize the moment. This is Bloomberg 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.760 Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.120 Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Tim, I feel like we've talked 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.280 about things over the last week. We've talked about market collusion, 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:43.160 market manipulation, you know, and kind of what it what 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.800 it all means is we've seen basically hedge funds pitted 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.320 against retail investors. So I guess, you know, we need 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.559 to find out do people think that the market was 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.120 being manipulated? And someone who writes about it for Bloomberg 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.880 business Week is economics editor Peter Cole. He joins us 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.600 right now on the phone in New Jersey, along with 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.640 Business Week editor Joe Webber on the access line in Brooklyn. 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.080 This has been, you know, Joel, a big part of 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.760 the conversations we've been having, like did the traders, the 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.520 retail investors do something wrong? Was the market manipulated? Yeah? 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.199 And that was why, um we asked Peter just to 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.680 kind of dig into it and see what he could find. 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.559 And it turns out to actually be a really difficult 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:29.120 conversation and not one that that I think the you know, 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.600 the legal side of this, there's a lot of interest 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.760 in but it remains rather mysterious still. So so Peter, 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.440 as you as you dug into your reporting, what what 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:42.079 did you learn? Well, see, it's not just a problem 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.080 of the fact the facts are in dispute, But it's 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.480 even the theory that's in dispute. So I dig up 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.400 a article that came out in the Yale Journal on 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:56.400 Regulation where the authors said that more than eighty years 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.920 after federal law first addressed stock market manipulation, federal coal 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:04.280 remains fractured by disagreement and confusion about the most foundational 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.839 questions about what manipulation even is. They say may be 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:12.000 most controversial concept and securities laws. So even if people 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.680 could agree on exactly what happened TikTok from the beginning 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.319 of the game stop and other stocks up to the president, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.880 they might still disagree on whether it was illegal or 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.360 not right exactly, So, well, what did you find out? 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:28.360 And having conversations because it's obviously not black and white here, Peter, Right, 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:33.720 So there are things that are pretty clearly over the bounds, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.280 Like if you claim to be a buyer of shares 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.440 when you're really secretly selling and you're just trying to 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:47.440 take advantage of others, that that constitute fraud. That's market manipulation. Now, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.680 if you buy and you start saying good things about 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.920 the shares as you buy, a lot of people do that, right, 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.040 that's kind of ordinary, like I'm really hyped up on 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.880 the stock I'm buying. I I think it's good. That's 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.880 that can be either illegal or illegal. If you're doing 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.360 a specifically with the goal of pushing up the price, 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.920 that could be market manipulation. And but that's only going 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.240 to be possible if if your voice is powerful enough 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.080 to make a move. If if I just said I'm 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.440 going to buy a share of something, nobody would care 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.840 because I don't have any influence. But and then then 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.120 you get into the question of Okay, something is new here. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:30.400 Robin Hood changed everything. And what what it changed was 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.120 it created a forum for in which people who are 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:40.800 singlely individually powerless are collectively powerful. So if they agree 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.800 among themselves to do something, then what might have been 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.360 innocent enough on an individual level could become perceived as 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:49.800 a market manipulation. Okay, so what happens then, I mean, 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.160 what could what could regulators actually do considering this is 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.280 happening in Reddit forums and on the robin Hood app. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.560 They can, They can and will not only study detail 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:04.400 what's being said, but what the players who are saying 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:08.000 those things are doing behind the scenes. Um they the 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.960 SEC has the power to de anonymize the market data 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.640 and target individual people to see what what's happening. And 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.600 there could be some big, shadowy players here that we 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.920 don't know about, you know, hedge funds even that are 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.080 behind this action. And that's that's the kind of thing 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.280 that'll be looking at. But even if it's not, there 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:33.000 could be smaller players who could be eventually prosecuted for 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:37.120 market manipulation. Not saying it will happen, but it could happen. Peter, 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.360 there's a term that I had never heard before that 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.920 you include, which is momentum ignition. Uh, can you explain 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.240 that term of art another name for a great garage band. 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.320 I'm just going to put it out there. That's a 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:53.480 good one. I liken it to standing at the top 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.200 of a mountain, and this is a good metaphor for 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.720 today with all the snow we're having and yelling boom 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.880 and suddenly an avalanche starts. All you did was yell boo. 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:09.800 That's not illegal, but you kind of recognizant of the 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.320 conditions of the snow and you you should should have 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:17.080 known or did know, that this would trigger an avalanche. 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.520 So if the ski shell at the bottom of the the 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:25.119 slope gets crushed under an avalanche. Maybe you're responsible for 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:30.479 maybe you ignited that momentum. So, Peter, when we when 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:34.000 you think about where the legal side of the whole 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:38.840 game stop conversation could go, Like, you know, right now 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.199 it's really nowhere. But but how realistic is it that 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:47.399 this conversation could continue to fester. I think the SEC 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.520 as we know, is looking at these cases now, so 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.920 it could be not that long before. Well it could. 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:57.720 I don't know how it's going to take them. They're 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.320 gonna be careful about it, but I can edge and 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:04.639 prosecutions arising out of this. Not to say everybody who's 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.640 involved in this as culpable, no, no, but but there 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:09.320 could be some people who are and that's what they 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:11.239 could be looking at very close. Well, And I'd love 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.320 how you likened it to what happened to the storming 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.199 of the capital, Like we have never been environment between 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.800 social media where so much is documented and people you know, 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.000 gladly would put stuff out there of what they were saying, 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.359 what they were doing, what they were thinking. Yeah, I know, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.159 I want to be careful of that because I'm not 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:30.359 likening the people who were speculating in game stock or 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.639 a mc or else to the people who invaded the capital. 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.160 I mean, one case was a violent insurrection and one 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:42.000 playing with stock market. But there you can find some parallels, 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:45.760 and one of them is this question of who started 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.760 it and who amplified it. So like, did Donald Trump 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.320 incite people to invade the capital. He didn't tell them 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:57.639 to invade the capital, but were his words um enough 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.960 to trigger it? And should he have known, given the 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:04.160 volatile situation right that this would be the result. That's 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.960 a similar game stuff. Well, it's a really smart read 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:08.760 and I recommend it for everyone to help kind of 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.000 understand this situation. Peter Coy, thank you so much, and 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.040 of course our thanks to Joe Weber. You're listening to 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:19.119 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.040 Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. All right, you are listening 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:24.760 to Bloomberg Business Week. First of all, I just playing 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:26.560 off of what we hear from Charlie. Um. I was 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.800 looking at those jet blue mini sweets two people. Yeah, 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.600 I'm all in. Yeah, I mean when you get your vaccine, right, yes, 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:35.399 when I get my vaccine. But you kind of kind 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.000 of love those little cubicles. Where you're kind of closed 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.320 in it, like kind of like a mini New York apartment. 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.880 That's feels that way. But you're right. When we get 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.840 that vaccine headline, we just want to make sure everybody 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.879 saw robin Hood in talks with banks and raising a 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.320 billion dollars in debt. This is coming from routers. I mean, 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.679 they've already been getting a fair amount of cash infusions here, right. 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.800 It is remarkable, Carol. The company has raised an additional 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:05.320 two point for billion dollars from investors. That comes after 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.720 it raised even more money last week, so three point 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.280 four billion dollars in addition to what Reuters is reporting, 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:14.680 this billion dollars in debt. Well, and listen, it spoke 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.440 to what you said earlier, you know, for what we're 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.080 worried about, you know, people saying no thanks, I'm not 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.119 interested in using robin Hood anymore. Investors are interested in 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:25.119 still pumping money into it. And we did hear that 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.600 robin Hood from Animasa saying that they was at like 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.399 six hundred thousand new downloads of the platform. Yeah, it 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.320 was at the top of the charts last week in 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:38.280 Apple's App store. And look, I think from the marketing perspective. 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:40.359 It's has to do a lot of work to do 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.520 from reputational perspective after what happened last week. But look 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:45.600 at the way that investors are being bullish on it. 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.080 Those metro capitalists are right, they want a piece of it, 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.280 voting with their money, certainly sharing their opinion. So, okay, 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.040 we have been obsessed with game stop we were last week? Uh, 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.080 and I do remember we had guests reminding us that 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.120 there were some really other important things that were going 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:03.439 on in the world, include the pandemic, earnings, a massive 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.800 COVID relief plan, and as Bloomberg New Economy editorial director 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.200 Andy Brown writes about in his weekly column, we saw 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.640 both Wall Street and Washington take some big steps ongoing 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:14.760 green and he joins us with more on the phone 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.800 in New York. Andy, Um, good to have you here. 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:19.680 Tell us a little bit about You're right, there were 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.280 so many things that were so important last week that 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.760