1
00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:09,719
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I am a single parent.

2
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:10,840
Speaker 1: I'm a widow.

3
00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,200
Speaker 2: My husband was in the military and he died in

4
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,160
Speaker 2: the line of duty years.

5
00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:18,959
Speaker 1: Ago, so it's just me.

6
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,400
Speaker 2: So if something happens to me, you know, I think

7
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:24,160
Speaker 2: about my kids.

8
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,560
Speaker 3: Lindsey Posey is a thirty eight year old living in Spartanburg,

9
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,480
Speaker 3: South Carolina with her two teenage kids. About a year ago,

10
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,559
Speaker 3: after a series of health scares, a doctor told her

11
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,120
Speaker 3: she needed to lose weight and offered to write her

12
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,559
Speaker 3: a prescription for ozembic or munjaro.

13
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,919
Speaker 2: I told him that I'm like, yeah, I would love to,

14
00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,000
Speaker 2: but my insurance isn't going to cover it.

15
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 3: But then she thought about her kids and started looking

16
00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,560
Speaker 3: into ways to pay for the weight loss drugs, which

17
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 3: can cost hundreds of dollars a month without insurance.

18
00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 2: So I, you know, started going on Reddit, researching different places, googling,

19
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 2: and I came across telehealth companies.

20
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,160
Speaker 3: The telehealth company Lindsay found wrote her a prescription for

21
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,520
Speaker 3: a weight loss drug and then hooked her up with

22
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,520
Speaker 3: a compounding pharmacy. Compounders make copycats of drugs, often at

23
00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,679
Speaker 3: cheaper prices, but the compounded versions aren't approved by the FDA.

24
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,199
Speaker 3: Lindsay says the first vile she received seemed to work,

25
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,760
Speaker 3: lowering her desire for food, but then the second vial

26
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,520
Speaker 3: seemed to have no effect.

27
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 2: So, you know, me, not really knowing what I'm doing,

28
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,959
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, well maybe that means I need to

29
00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 2: move up in dose. So I increased my dose and

30
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 2: nothing happened.

31
00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,240
Speaker 3: Then Lindsay opened her third fial of medicine.

32
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,640
Speaker 2: And you know, within a week of starting it, my

33
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 2: face just kind of started to break out.

34
00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 1: Within two weeks, it was getting really bad. I think

35
00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:57,480
Speaker 1: I did.

36
00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 2: Three weeks of that vial before I had gone through

37
00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 2: every avenue and process of elimination.

38
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,640
Speaker 1: Trying to figure out what is causing this.

39
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 3: Lindsay stopped applying a new moisturizer she'd been using, she

40
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 3: modified her diet.

41
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,760
Speaker 2: You know, I really I couldn't find an answer, so

42
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,680
Speaker 2: I thought it has to be this.

43
00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,440
Speaker 1: So I ended up throwing the rest of that vial away.

44
00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,720
Speaker 3: Lindsay eventually got a replacement vial from the compounding pharmacy.

45
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,720
Speaker 2: I started using that one and it was very strong,

46
00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,520
Speaker 2: like I had side effects after the first shot, and

47
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, what in the world is going on? Why

48
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,880
Speaker 2: is every vial that I get so inconsistent?

49
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,720
Speaker 3: Lindsay says the experience made her wonder just where these

50
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:43,920
Speaker 3: vials were coming from.

51
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 1: It's kind of scary. You know.

52
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,440
Speaker 2: They comfort you, They you know, say all of these things. Oh,

53
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,560
Speaker 2: you've got nothing to worry about. Everything's you know, tested

54
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 2: and up to standards, and then you start kind of.

55
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,320
Speaker 1: Digging and you're like, okay, well is that the truth?

56
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 3: Today on the show, how the skyrocketing demand for weight

57
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 3: loss drugs like zetbound, ozempic and wgov is sending Americans

58
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 3: into a one billion dollar shadow industry that could be

59
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 3: putting their health in danger. I'm Sarah Holder, and this

60
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,840
Speaker 3: is the big take from Bloomberg News.

61
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,639
Speaker 4: Last year, when you would google ozembic or wagov, most

62
00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 4: of the things that would come up online were news

63
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,720
Speaker 4: articles or you know so and so celebrities taking ozembic.

64
00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 3: Madison Muller is a health reporter at Bloomberg. She mostly

65
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 3: covers ozempic, wagovi and other weight loss drugs, and she

66
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,120
Speaker 3: says over the past year she's noticed different results starting

67
00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:45,160
Speaker 3: to show up on Google.

68
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,320
Speaker 4: It's crazy. I mean, if you type ozembic, into Google Search,

69
00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 4: like all of the advertisements are for telehealth companies that

70
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 4: are selling compounded drugs.

71
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 3: You might have seen these results too for telehealth companies

72
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,080
Speaker 3: like Hymns and Hers or Row that sometimes advertised cheaper

73
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 3: copycat mets. Madison got to work compiling all of the

74
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,040
Speaker 3: results she found for companies that said they sold these

75
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:10,760
Speaker 3: sought after weight loss drugs.

76
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,360
Speaker 4: I mean, I think there were like sixty companies or

77
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,680
Speaker 4: something at the time, and I was like, there's something

78
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 4: going on here, and so Ike and I started looking

79
00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:18,560
Speaker 4: into this.

80
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 3: Ike Sweatltz is also a reporter at Bloomberg who focuses

81
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,920
Speaker 3: on the business of health and medicine. He was intrigued

82
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,920
Speaker 3: by what Madison found out, and he started looking into

83
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 3: these compounding pharmacies that many telehealth companies partner with to

84
00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,320
Speaker 3: procure weight loss drugs for their patients. To be clear,

85
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,359
Speaker 3: compounded drugs aren't just generic versions of brand name products.

86
00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,600
Speaker 3: There's something else entirely.

87
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 5: So compounding is how drugs have been made really since

88
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,599
Speaker 5: the beginning, you know, prior to modern manufacturing, prior to

89
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,800
Speaker 5: the FDA, if you needed a medicine, you went into

90
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,840
Speaker 5: the pharmacy and they mixed together some chemicals and you know,

91
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:00,839
Speaker 5: gave it to you and whatever sort of format you

92
00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,520
Speaker 5: needed it. So that was that was how you got medicines.

93
00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:09,080
Speaker 3: But that changed as drug making became more mechanized and automated. Eventually,

94
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 3: the Food and Drug Administration was established and with it

95
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,440
Speaker 3: the regulations that required drug makers to submit medicines for

96
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,480
Speaker 3: approval before they could be sold.

97
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,280
Speaker 5: But compounders still had a role making some medicines, mostly

98
00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,880
Speaker 5: medicines for people who might have might be allergic to

99
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,679
Speaker 5: one of the ingredients that's in the FDA approved version,

100
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,720
Speaker 5: or patients who like physically could not take the FDA

101
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:33,400
Speaker 5: approved drug.

102
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 3: Essentially, the FDA left a loophole open for these compounders

103
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,040
Speaker 3: to continue making small batches of drugs if a patient

104
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,839
Speaker 3: needed a medicine to be slightly tweaked for some reason.

105
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,840
Speaker 5: The FDA you know, sort of knew that, you know, technically,

106
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,560
Speaker 5: on paper, this was like a violation of the federal

107
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 5: law because the drugs had not gone through the FDA

108
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,599
Speaker 5: approval process. They were just choosing to, you know, exercise

109
00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,680
Speaker 5: enforcement discretion and not enforce those laws and allow compounding

110
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 5: to continue as long as it was regulated by the states.

111
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,719
Speaker 3: Ike says this worked for a while until twenty twelve,

112
00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 3: when dozens of people died from contaminated drugs made at

113
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,279
Speaker 3: a compounding center in Massachusetts.

114
00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 6: State officials here in Massachusetts say they found a leaking boiler,

115
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 6: dirty floor mats, even black specs of fungus visible to

116
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,040
Speaker 6: the naked eye in sealed vials at the New England

117
00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:25,920
Speaker 6: compounding center.

118
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,080
Speaker 3: That led to a national meningitis outbreak, and in twenty

119
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,039
Speaker 3: thirteen to the passage of a new law which laid

120
00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,839
Speaker 3: out more clearly how compounders could operate. But even with

121
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,000
Speaker 3: those new rules, there was still a loophole for compounders

122
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 3: who are making drugs that are in short supply, says Madison.

123
00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,640
Speaker 4: So compounders got into the weight loss drug industry most

124
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,719
Speaker 4: likely around two ish years ago when these drugs were

125
00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 4: first falling into shortage, So hozempic would go via manjarros

126
00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,559
Speaker 4: that bound to have gone in and out of short

127
00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,039
Speaker 4: supply with the US Food and Drug Administration, and that

128
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 4: sort of loophole allowed them to capitalize on this opportunity

129
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 4: and allowed this market to really proliferate because they were

130
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,520
Speaker 4: allowed to do this and they were filling a need

131
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 4: and continue to do so, because these drugs are still

132
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 4: in shortage.

133
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 3: Even if you've been prescribed ozepic or another some maaglutide drug,

134
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,640
Speaker 3: it can often be very difficult to find a pharmacy

135
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:21,920
Speaker 3: with the medicine in stock.

136
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,440
Speaker 4: We've seen a lot of issues between the supply shortages, affordability,

137
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 4: insurance companies not covering weight loss drugs. That's made it

138
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,320
Speaker 4: really really difficult for patients who need these drugs to

139
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,920
Speaker 4: get them. And so what these compounding pharmacies have done is,

140
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 4: I mean their drugs are not in shortage, and so

141
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,240
Speaker 4: they've made the drugs a lot more readily available. And

142
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 4: that also helps telehealth companies and other businesses that have

143
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 4: sort of built up a business around prescribing these drugs

144
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 4: to patients.

145
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,400
Speaker 3: Are they using the same active ingredients as ozepic and

146
00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 3: we go V and manduro.

147
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 5: So if if the compounders are doing what they're supposed

148
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 5: to do and following the rules, then yes, they should

149
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 5: be using the same active ingredients.

150
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,040
Speaker 3: But sometimes patients might be confused about exactly what drug

151
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 3: they're getting.

152
00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,600
Speaker 4: You know, when you're a patient and you're trying to

153
00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 4: sort through all of the medical information online and you're

154
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,119
Speaker 4: inundated with a bunch of ads and you just click

155
00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,160
Speaker 4: on one that's like, oh, this is cheaper, I might

156
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 4: as well. This looks legitimate. It has a nice glossy

157
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,920
Speaker 4: website and you know, smiling patients on it and says

158
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,400
Speaker 4: that it's selling ozembic, Like, oh, it probably is. So

159
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,960
Speaker 4: I think that that's sort of the challenge is in

160
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,600
Speaker 4: this you know world of misinformation and online information that

161
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 4: we're like inundated with just so much of it, and

162
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,440
Speaker 4: it's hard to sift through it and really determine what

163
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 4: is genuine and what's not.

164
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,200
Speaker 3: Other times, Madison says patients are in fact seeking out

165
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,600
Speaker 3: the cheaper, compounded version of the drug.

166
00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 4: And that's one of the things I mean, especially like

167
00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,800
Speaker 4: the on social media, the compounded drugs have really taken

168
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,520
Speaker 4: off off, especially on TikTok.

169
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 7: Right, So in this bag, I have alcohol slows to

170
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,600
Speaker 7: prep your skin. I also have the needles that you

171
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,520
Speaker 7: use for injection, and then in this little vial right here, it's.

172
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:14,880
Speaker 1: Actually the compounded medication.

173
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:15,719
Speaker 7: You can see it.

174
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,800
Speaker 4: A lot of TikTok influencers and people who have large

175
00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,080
Speaker 4: followings on Instagram and TikTok are talking about these drugs

176
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,079
Speaker 4: and you know, serving as influencers for the telehealth companies

177
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,360
Speaker 4: and helping to market these weight loss drugs.

178
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,959
Speaker 2: And with the compounded version, as long as there's a shortage,

179
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to get my medication.

180
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,120
Speaker 3: Ike says, these compounding pharmacies are growing rapidly, partially to

181
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,440
Speaker 3: meet demand and partially because there's a lot of money

182
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 3: to be made.

183
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,240
Speaker 5: One of the bankers who I talked to, you know,

184
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,360
Speaker 5: told me that these compounding pharmacy owners are going to

185
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,080
Speaker 5: be living like Versace and cruising around and gold plated

186
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,679
Speaker 5: bent leaves because of the profits from some of these

187
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 5: compounded medicines.

188
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,680
Speaker 3: Bankers told Ike that annual sales of compounded weight loss

189
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 3: drugs could ultimately be as high as one billion dollars.

190
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,800
Speaker 3: So there's demand and there's potentially billions of dollars in revenue,

191
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,840
Speaker 3: but there's also one big asterisk. So Madison, now for

192
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,880
Speaker 3: the million dollar question, are compounded weight loss drugs safe

193
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:19,400
Speaker 3: to use?

194
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:20,760
Speaker 6: Yeah?

195
00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,679
Speaker 4: I mean that's our million dollar question too, is are

196
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 4: these drugs safe to use? And in the course of

197
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 4: our reporting, that's something that has been very difficult to determine.

198
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,760
Speaker 3: The safety of knockoff of Zepic that's coming up after

199
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 3: the break. Drug safety isn't supposed to be a guessing game.

200
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,160
Speaker 3: Regulators have standards that are meant to protect consumers, but

201
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,240
Speaker 3: compounded drugs aren't governed by those same rules. Bloomberg Health

202
00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,839
Speaker 3: reporter Ike Sweatltz told me.

203
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,200
Speaker 5: So, I think that the big difference between the compounded

204
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,880
Speaker 5: medicines and FDA approved drugs in terms of regulation is

205
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,280
Speaker 5: that FDA approved drugs, both the brands and generics, have

206
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,760
Speaker 5: to be approved by the FDA before they can be sold.

207
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 5: So you have to go to the FDA and say,

208
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,880
Speaker 5: here's what I'm planning to sell. Here's how I'm going

209
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 5: to make it, here is here is how it is

210
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 5: equivalent to the brand name if it's generic, or you know,

211
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,360
Speaker 5: here's how it works if it's a brand name drug.

212
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,240
Speaker 5: And the FDA reviews all of that and they say, okay,

213
00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,719
Speaker 5: we approve your manufacturing process. You know, it looks like

214
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 5: your drug is working or it looks like it's equivalent,

215
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,480
Speaker 5: you can sell it. That process does not happen for

216
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:40,319
Speaker 5: the compounders.

217
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,640
Speaker 3: Compounders, I says, are mostly governed by state regulations.

218
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,199
Speaker 5: The states are checking to see if they're following protocols, right,

219
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,840
Speaker 5: you know, if their protocols around cleanliness, protocols, around what

220
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,600
Speaker 5: sort of testing they're supposed to be doing, what sort

221
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,800
Speaker 5: of records they're supposed to be keeping. But the states

222
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:57,800
Speaker 5: are not going and you know, checking to make sure

223
00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 5: that the drugs work.

224
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,160
Speaker 3: Even still, some state investigators have found some pretty worrying things,

225
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,360
Speaker 3: like unsterile conditions at a compounder pharmacy in Arizona and

226
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,520
Speaker 3: insufficient testing at one in Louisiana. But Bloomberg Health reporter

227
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,720
Speaker 3: Madison Muller says that tracing any ill effects back to

228
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,920
Speaker 3: compounders can be really difficult.

229
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 4: Even when a patient says I got so and so reaction,

230
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,920
Speaker 4: you know, I had stomach issues or my skin broke

231
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,280
Speaker 4: out in hives or whatever from a compounded drug, it's

232
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,480
Speaker 4: extremely difficult to actually prove that it was from the

233
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,240
Speaker 4: compounded medication and that there was an issue with the

234
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:40,840
Speaker 4: compounded medication versus any other drug. There isn't really the

235
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:46,440
Speaker 4: same level of adverse event tracking that happens with branded medications.

236
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,600
Speaker 3: And Ike says that the worrying thing for doctors wasn't

237
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 3: necessarily wrongdoing at these compounders.

238
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,679
Speaker 5: I spoke with several doctors, and I think they were

239
00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 5: in general more concerned with the lack of evidence than

240
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,319
Speaker 5: evidence of wrongdoing or widespread bad quality or something like that.

241
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,440
Speaker 5: You know, they were talking about the lack of clinical trials.

242
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 5: They were talking about the lack of peer reviewed studies.

243
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 5: There are a lot of questions that they have that

244
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,719
Speaker 5: they're looking for answers for about the effectiveness of these

245
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:16,920
Speaker 5: compounded medicines.

246
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,079
Speaker 3: And it's not just doctors who are worried about compounders.

247
00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,200
Speaker 3: The big pharmaceutical companies behind these drugs are also concerned,

248
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,319
Speaker 3: like Novo Nordisk, which makes ozepic and we goo v

249
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,080
Speaker 3: and Eli Lilly which makes zep bound.

250
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly are both very

251
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,920
Speaker 4: worried about the compounding that's going on. They say that

252
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:42,199
Speaker 4: it's not necessarily from a competitive perspective. They are making

253
00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,600
Speaker 4: as much of these drugs as they can, and you know,

254
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,959
Speaker 4: as we've seen, they're making a lot of money off

255
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,000
Speaker 4: of these drugs as well, So they say that it's

256
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,040
Speaker 4: not necessarily a competitive risk, but they are worried about

257
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 4: reputational issues. Both drug makers say that they've tested the

258
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,559
Speaker 4: drugs and you know, we haven't seen the results of

259
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,679
Speaker 4: those tests, but they say that there are you know,

260
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,400
Speaker 4: impurity issues. In some cases, the drugs are no more

261
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,680
Speaker 4: than like sugar water basically, and so they're filing a

262
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 4: lot of lawsuits, dozens of lawsuits against some of these

263
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 4: medical spas compounding pharmacies to try to limit and crack

264
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 4: down on some of this.

265
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,880
Speaker 3: But Ike says, many of these pharma company lawsuits aren't

266
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,680
Speaker 3: focused on the safety of the compounders, but on the

267
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 3: way they're marketing their products.

268
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,240
Speaker 5: So there's a lot of issues that these companies are

269
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,560
Speaker 5: taking with how you know, a website might describe the

270
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:38,240
Speaker 5: drug as as opposed to concerns about whether the drug

271
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 5: is harmful to patients or not.

272
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 3: Even with the lawsuits and the issues reported by patients

273
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 3: like Lindsay Posey, Ike says, it's important to remember that

274
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,320
Speaker 3: compounders can serve an important role in the market, particularly

275
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,720
Speaker 3: when there are drug shortages.

276
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 5: These drugs can be safe and you know, can be

277
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,160
Speaker 5: made properly as long as they're made you know, at

278
00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 5: high quality pharmacies.

279
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,800
Speaker 3: But the problem is it's very hard for a regular

280
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,360
Speaker 3: consumer to know just which pharmacies are high quality and

281
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,280
Speaker 3: which ones might have issues, and that's left people like

282
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 3: Lindsay struggling to get answers on just what it is

283
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 3: they're taking and how to stay safe.

284
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 1: It just kind of seems like.

285
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 2: No matter which avenue you talk to, it's always someone else.

286
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,800
Speaker 2: It could be a bad batch, you know, or it

287
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 2: could be time temperature abused or got overheated and shipping,

288
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,400
Speaker 2: you know. It could be a lot of things, and

289
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:38,960
Speaker 2: it's not very comforting.

290
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,320
Speaker 3: Which is why she says that if companies like Novo

291
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 3: Nordisk and Eli Lilly can eventually manufacture enough drugs to

292
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,000
Speaker 3: meet the demand, there's still this issue of insurance and cost.

293
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,320
Speaker 3: As long as the price of these drugs remain high,

294
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 3: people are going to look for cheaper, potentially less safe options.

295
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 8: I feel as though, you know, we wouldn't have to

296
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,640
Speaker 8: go down this route that you could potentially be unsafe

297
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 8: if these insurance companies started caring it for people like me.

298
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 3: That's it for this episode of The Big Take from

299
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 3: Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. This episode was produced by

300
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 3: Adrianna Tapia and Jessica Beck. It was edited by Aaron

301
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,680
Speaker 3: Edwards and Cynthia Koons. It was fact checked by Thomas

302
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,960
Speaker 3: lu It was mixed by Robert Williams. Our senior producers

303
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 3: are Naomi Shaven and Kim Gettelson. Our senior editor is

304
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:40,000
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Ponso. Nicole beamsterbor is our executive producer. Say Bowman

305
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 3: is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If you liked this episode,

306
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 3: make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take wherever

307
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,680
Speaker 3: you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show.

308
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back tomorrow