Speaker 1: Joe Loya has agreed to answer our questions, so please
Speaker 1: send yours to info at Orbitmedia dot FM or leave
Speaker 1: them in the comments on Spotify or Apple. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Hi there, It's Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. This is
Speaker 1: Get the Money and Run. In this episode, episode three,
Speaker 1: we ask what happens when Joe is pushed to the
Speaker 1: brink and beyond. Joe's answer changes everything. And by the way,
Speaker 1: this episode took my breath away. Remember to binge all
Speaker 1: seven episodes ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. All right over to Ben.
Speaker 2: You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the
Speaker 2: Money and Run. I'm Benedeir and this is episode three
Speaker 2: The Hunter.
Speaker 3: I never remember what motivated me to go to Valencia,
Speaker 3: California and north of LA And normally my thing was
Speaker 3: to just stay as close to the freeway as possible.
Speaker 3: And as I kept driving from long light to long light,
Speaker 3: thing I should turn around here, I'm like, oh, let
Speaker 3: me just see a little further. It's gotta be one here.
Speaker 3: But I get to this bank, I'm like, I'm a
Speaker 3: mile a half in the freeway, but there's a bank
Speaker 3: there and this is the perfect kind of bank to rub.
Speaker 3: The thing that makes it perfect is it's right there
Speaker 3: on the street. There's this giant parking lot all around it,
Speaker 3: and then behind the parking lot there is the Ralphs
Speaker 3: and a bunch of stores and probably twenty shops in
Speaker 3: there easily and says, let me fucking do this thing.
Speaker 3: So I park back there, walk through the parking lot.
Speaker 3: It's a long parking lot. Yeah, it's a good, little,
Speaker 3: good little walk. I walk inside the bank and I
Speaker 3: do my spiel. It's a simple spiel. They have a
Speaker 3: bomb or whatever. I pull the bank robbery. I walk out.
Speaker 3: And this is one of those fascinating like epiphany days.
Speaker 3: I walk out of the bank and I start walking
Speaker 3: through the parking lot.
Speaker 4: Are you walking or running?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 3: I'm walking, you're walking. I'm just another person walking between
Speaker 3: cars right in the parking lot. I'm trying to blend in.
Speaker 3: But I do turn around, and I notice towlers run
Speaker 3: out of the bank. And as soon as they run
Speaker 3: out of the bank and they get to the curb,
Speaker 3: they don't look up and see me. What they do
Speaker 3: is they immediately come out and they start turning ahead
Speaker 3: left to right, and they start looking in the cars
Speaker 3: that are driving by, because they assumed, like on TV,
Speaker 3: that I there was a getaway driver and I'm in
Speaker 3: one of those cars, because they're buying into the hype,
Speaker 3: into the old story. They're buying into some false sense
Speaker 3: of what happens when I'm the reality of what happens.
Speaker 3: Like that was something I was invisible. I was looking
Speaker 3: right at them, and I might as well have been
Speaker 3: a fucking ghost because they could not see me. They
Speaker 3: never looked up, they didn't and I just walked away. Casually.
Speaker 3: Later on, I would continue to do that, and I
Speaker 3: would always look around and I was marvel at that.
Speaker 3: But I remember that was the first time where I
Speaker 3: was like, whoa, I'm right here here. What the fuck?
Speaker 3: How come you can't see me? You know, it was
Speaker 3: really strange. It was an interesting thing on human psychology,
Speaker 3: you know, to understand that that's what was going on.
Speaker 3: And I got away.
Speaker 4: So at the end of the last episode, you just
Speaker 4: told your dad's new girlfriend all about the abuse and
Speaker 4: the trauma that you and your brother Paul are suffering,
Speaker 4: and then you picked up a knife. You're right, sizzlerry.
Speaker 4: He picked up a steak knife, and you said the
Speaker 4: next time your dad hits you, you're gonna stab.
Speaker 3: Him in the neck. Yeah, I mean, how.
Speaker 4: Did she respond to that? How did she respond to
Speaker 4: you and your brother telling her all this stuff?
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was really shocked. And when I handled the
Speaker 3: knife for the first thing was like, no, put it down.
Speaker 3: Violence doesn't solve anything, which is very sweet. But then
Speaker 3: I realized, you can't tell my dad what happened. You
Speaker 3: can't confront him. You're not you know, in my head,
Speaker 3: she's not strong enough. So she tells us she's gonna
Speaker 3: figure it out, she's the adult, but she won't tell him.
Speaker 3: But she's such a sweetheart. She has no idea who
Speaker 3: she's working with. She's not an actress. She's not a
Speaker 3: good liar. In fact, that's the thing that's beautiful about her.
Speaker 3: She's an honest, transparent woman. And what we the information
Speaker 3: we had just given her devastated her, Like it's just
Speaker 3: what how do I process? Good people like that don't
Speaker 3: know how to hide those feelings. But she believed you.
Speaker 4: She thought you were telling the truth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she knew where the truth. And even if she didn't,
Speaker 3: she still had to process the fact that these boys
Speaker 3: are telling her some really terrible things about the guy
Speaker 3: had to give her pause, and that's all my dad needed.
Speaker 3: He could feel the molecules between them shift. Man, there's
Speaker 3: a thing. And especially if you're an insecure man who's
Speaker 3: trying to control situations, you pick up you're always picking
Speaker 3: up the vide Where am I losing hold? We goes by.
Speaker 3: We would always go to the laundromat. We would wash
Speaker 3: clothes and he it was a disco era, like polyester
Speaker 3: pants were lure her clothes and it was this weird, weird,
Speaker 3: weird fashioned time. And you know, he used to go
Speaker 3: to disco and he used to love to dance. My
Speaker 3: dad was a cool little dancer dude. Man, but we
Speaker 3: were poor. You know, he had gone bankrupt. We were struggling.
Speaker 4: Ye had he lost his job?
Speaker 3: Like since yeah, yeah, he'd lost his job.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, okay, Uh.
Speaker 3: We go to the laundromat. It's a Sunday and I
Speaker 3: fuck up and I dry his clothes clothing the dryer
Speaker 3: and they're not supposed to be in the driver. They're
Speaker 3: not supposed to be at their temperature or right. Somehow
Speaker 3: I ruin the big chunk of his wardrobe and you know, accidentally,
Speaker 3: but he was he was very angry. Obviously he was angry.
Speaker 3: You know, it was frustrated. I'd be frustrated too. You
Speaker 3: ruin half my shitty wardrobe. I'm gonna be pissed, well,
Speaker 3: especially your nice disco clothes and my disco costume. So
Speaker 3: we come home and he's mad, you know, you know
Speaker 3: it gives me the slap in the face. Go to
Speaker 3: the room. We could feel he's angry, and he starts
Speaker 3: washing dishes, and then he calls me to the kitchen,
Speaker 3: very strange, all the tension, and he says, he, by
Speaker 3: the way, I talked to Susie and she told me
Speaker 3: what you said. An instantly I'm like, fuck, she couldn't
Speaker 3: keep her mouth shut. We are in trouble. And then
Speaker 3: he does this thing where he's like, but it's fine,
Speaker 3: I get it, you needed to do it. He just
Speaker 3: goes total Joe magnanimous on us, right, And there's a
Speaker 3: thing when you're a kid, you want your parents to
Speaker 3: be righteous. Man. So he says that he's fine with it,
Speaker 3: and all he needs is for me to be honest
Speaker 3: and admit that I talked to her about what happened.
Speaker 3: I confessed to him like yeah, yeah, yeah, I did
Speaker 3: and it's the first and last time I ever confessed
Speaker 3: no crime. And the reason is because he immediately gets
Speaker 3: mad and he was fishing. He didn't know shit. He
Speaker 3: was playing me, so he got what he wanted. And
Speaker 3: then he grabs a teapot and I, oh shit, I
Speaker 3: got a run. He throws the tea pot of me,
Speaker 3: hits me, bangs up against my arm or something. I
Speaker 3: would go running in the bedroom and then it's on
Speaker 3: like Donkey car mat. He starts beating the shit out
Speaker 3: of me, and he beats me with everything. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's like teapot was in there and a hamper. You know,
Speaker 3: later on the police reports would say, you know, fracture
Speaker 3: bones and concussion Jesus, yeah, rib and elbow, so yeah.
Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm getting a good beating. I'm a
Speaker 3: vicious beating man, one of the worst. And then he
Speaker 3: leaves the house and goes to break up with Susie
Speaker 3: by phone. And when he goes to break with Susie
Speaker 3: by phone, he has to go to a seventy eleven
Speaker 3: because we don't have a phone. We're poor, And so
Speaker 3: he leaves and I tell Paul very quickly get in
Speaker 3: the bathroom because it clicks in my head. This is
Speaker 3: the time I need to stab them. I said I
Speaker 3: would and now gonna do it.
Speaker 4: So you were thinking back to like did you actually
Speaker 4: think about like, yeah, your time in the restaurant, Like
Speaker 4: I said, I was gonna do it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely. I'm now feeling like I'm swimming in morbidity. Man.
Speaker 3: I fucking got fear, I got confusion, I got a concussion,
Speaker 3: I'm getting beat. It's like a fucking fugue state. It's
Speaker 3: on here. Oh you did do a knife thing. Oh
Speaker 3: he humiliated you. Oh you don't like feeling that now's
Speaker 3: the time to do it. Okay, what where's the knives?
Speaker 3: I don't know, Paul, he's in the bathroom, like protecting it.
Speaker 3: Bro Like it's just all fucking swimming in that shit,
Speaker 3: right And I had already declared it. So there I
Speaker 3: have something I can even though it feels like it's
Speaker 3: a miasma, there is something I declared and I put
Speaker 3: down in the ground. I can grab for and say
Speaker 3: I said I would stab him next time, and that's
Speaker 3: what I latch hunt in all of that shit. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: that's the thing will get me out of this moment,
Speaker 3: This is what you do. You declared it. Let's rock it.
Speaker 3: And so I go get the knife and put it
Speaker 3: under the pillow. He comes back and he's stands in
Speaker 3: the door. He's looking at me, and he's ready for
Speaker 3: around two. And ready for around two means I could
Speaker 3: see ze on the balls of his feet. His neck
Speaker 3: is loose, he's awe, he's just fucking body's electric, you know.
Speaker 3: His shoulders are loose. He's he's ready to put in work.
Speaker 3: He looks at me, and then he looks over in
Speaker 3: the corner and he sees a weight set, old shitty
Speaker 3: weight set. He was the kind that had The weights
Speaker 3: were were cement but wrapped in plastic, and there's this
Speaker 3: long bar and he starts. He walks over there, locked
Speaker 3: eyes on me, menacing me like aha, I got something
Speaker 3: for your ass. And he goes over there he starts
Speaker 3: to disassemble the weight. Now that the thing, the assembly
Speaker 3: that locks it in. It's a big piece of metal.
Speaker 3: It looks like a big piece of steel, and then
Speaker 3: there's the bar, and then there's the weights. If he
Speaker 3: hits me with any of that ship I'm fucking through
Speaker 3: money that that I'm gonna be injured. No matter what I.
Speaker 4: Mean, hitting you with any of those things could kill you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So yeah, So I'm like, what the fuck? This
Speaker 3: is a whole new level of improvised savagery for this dude.
Speaker 3: He's mad. So this is what I hate about telling
Speaker 3: this fucking story. You see. I know this because this
Speaker 3: is what I do when I go in the bank.
Speaker 3: Same fucking thing. He's menacing me. He wants a fucking
Speaker 3: he's he's lapping up my fear and it's just empowering
Speaker 3: him to do some crazy shit. Right. So, I'm sitting
Speaker 3: in the bed and then I reach underneath my pillow
Speaker 3: pull out the knife. I stand up and I look
Speaker 3: at him, and he's like, oh shit. And then he
Speaker 3: like puts the weight down, and you know, I'm holding
Speaker 3: the steak knife, but I'm only holding it. And then
Speaker 3: he like starts walking to me slowly, so he put
Speaker 3: it down, put it down, or give me the knife,
Speaker 3: give me the knife. I'm like, fuck that, I'm not
Speaker 3: giving this due the knife, I know I have only
Speaker 3: this move right here. I run him, charging him and
Speaker 3: put the arm up, go to attack him. I come
Speaker 3: up and come down and he puts his arm up
Speaker 3: and he blocks me. I'm like, oh shit. He doesn't
Speaker 3: block me by grabbing my arm. He just blocks me
Speaker 3: with his arms to my arm could kind of slide
Speaker 3: up and over and he's like, oh shit. And I
Speaker 3: get it over and he turns his head and I
Speaker 3: stab him in the back and he goes into his
Speaker 3: muscle right next to his spinal cord in his neck,
Speaker 3: and I stab it in and I'm in there and
Speaker 3: then I start twisting to try and break it off,
Speaker 3: and he's like, ah, you killed me, you killed me.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm putting in work and he knows I'm
Speaker 3: putting in work, and I believe I'm trying to kill him,
Speaker 3: and he's gonna die, and I'm fucking a beast. In
Speaker 3: this moment he falls, I stand over him and I
Speaker 3: say something like fucking dramatic. I don't say this is
Speaker 3: what your evil hath wrought kind of shit, but I said, like,
Speaker 3: you get that's what you got coming, or you did
Speaker 3: this to yourself, or you killed yourself something like that.
Speaker 3: I'm out and I go to the bathroom. Propose already
Speaker 3: out of the front door, said Joey, would you do
Speaker 3: just let's go run and he runs out without me,
Speaker 3: ahead of me, and I'm running down the middle of
Speaker 3: the road and I'm Freemont and then I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3: he's gonna pull that dude the monster too. And I
Speaker 3: start worrying, like, oh shit, he wasn't dead when I left,
Speaker 3: so maybe he pulled it out. Oh what if he's
Speaker 3: coming with that night ow shit. I kind of started
Speaker 3: feeling that, like, what if he lives and pulls it out,
Speaker 3: We're dead if I I didn't actually make sure he
Speaker 3: was dead. So n I said, let's go this street.
Speaker 3: And so we're still going to turn my aunt Glorious on,
Speaker 3: but we're going up another road and we take the
Speaker 3: long way instead of the straight Fremont to her house
Speaker 3: because I didn't want to get in the car and
Speaker 3: coming and get it it. We finally make it, sneak
Speaker 3: across the highway and get over there my Glorias, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, my dad, I kill my dad. I kill
Speaker 3: my dad. She calls the cops. She was my dad's
Speaker 3: closest sister. But she calls the cops.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back, So Joe, what happened next?
Speaker 3: When cops come and they take us, and I'm calm
Speaker 3: at the police station, I'm sitting there, like, you know,
Speaker 3: there's a movie where Kevin Spacey is Kaiser usual suspects,
Speaker 3: Usual suspects. I'm like one of those cool assute usual suspects.
Speaker 3: When I'm just sitting there, I got almost picture of
Speaker 3: my knees, my legs crossed, and I'm sitting there smoking
Speaker 3: a cigarette, all casual and cool because I'm not smoking
Speaker 3: a cigarette any laser and cross But I am so
Speaker 3: pumped from what happened and feeling the power of that
Speaker 3: when you kill somebody, and for a moment I thought
Speaker 3: my dad was dead. I killed him. That was a
Speaker 3: different power when you do that and you talk to
Speaker 3: people who kill people, and I had friends whould say,
Speaker 3: you know, the you know, the only thing stopping that
Speaker 3: man from being dead right now, and I say no one,
Speaker 3: They would say, my decision. And to be a man
Speaker 3: who that's true to, like, you know the only thing
Speaker 3: that I'm like sitting here looking here and saying, you
Speaker 3: have no clue, but the reason your life is because
Speaker 3: right now I choose to not kill you. That's a
Speaker 3: powerful way to move in the world. For a moment,
Speaker 3: I could feel that, Oh man, I'm the kind of
Speaker 3: guy who now can just say you you're done. You
Speaker 3: I let you live longer you you're done. You know
Speaker 3: that kind of thing, And then they take me to
Speaker 3: interrogate me. The police officer wants hearing my story, and
Speaker 3: as I start telling him my story, thinking that I'm
Speaker 3: telling him how I was abused and he tried to
Speaker 3: hurt us and I did it on self defense, and
Speaker 3: then he starts asking me questions. Very quickly, I start
Speaker 3: realizing for the kinds of questions he's asking me, like
Speaker 3: why didn't you run away? Why didn't you call anyone?
Speaker 3: So you got the knife and you waited in bed?
Speaker 3: You have waited on your bed with it under the pillow, hiding,
Speaker 3: And I realized he's painting a picture of me, of
Speaker 3: laying and wait because the portrait he's paying in his
Speaker 3: head and he's like, you didn't have to stab him,
Speaker 3: You could have called us, And he's painted this as
Speaker 3: an attempted murder. And I realized, sitting there, I'm smart enough
Speaker 3: to kind of get the impression that you probably beat
Speaker 3: the fuck out of your kid, and you don't want
Speaker 3: you don't like me, you don't like what I represent
Speaker 3: because we ain't taking shit from people like you, and
Speaker 3: you're backing my dad's play. I just told you what
Speaker 3: he did, and he's not looking at me like I'm
Speaker 3: an abuse kid who tried to defend himself from his
Speaker 3: father who came back from round two. But for one,
Speaker 3: when I'm sitting here telling the story about how I
Speaker 3: killed my dad, I felt like fucking King Kong. I
Speaker 3: was like, or maybe David's the better analogy. I fucking
Speaker 3: took out Goliath right like I I'm a badass, Like
Speaker 3: I can start looking at this cop like you're a
Speaker 3: fucking piece of shit for backing my dad's play. I'm
Speaker 3: starting to like recognize this. He maybe even starting this
Speaker 3: in the beginning of like, oh, your authority figure, fuck you.
Speaker 3: Oh your authority figure could give each other cover to
Speaker 3: do shit like this to us. Fuck you. I do
Speaker 3: remember resenting the fuck out of that guy very fast.
Speaker 4: So you're sitting in the police station and you thought
Speaker 4: that you killed your dad, Yeah, what are you feeling
Speaker 4: towards him in this moment?
Speaker 3: Some point in that in the precinct, I learned that
Speaker 3: he was alive because when they went there, he wasn't there.
Speaker 3: He's not dead on the floor in there. So we
Speaker 3: do learn that I do learn that eventually, and the
Speaker 3: adrenaline all goes away, and all of a sudden, my
Speaker 3: fucking arms and ribbed. It hurts to breathe because if
Speaker 3: you've ever had fractured ribs, you know, the tissue around
Speaker 3: it gets swollen and then your lungs are pushing up again,
Speaker 3: so it's hard to breathe. I start having problems, and
Speaker 3: I explained that I'm having problems, so they take them
Speaker 3: to the doctor in the hospital. When they get to
Speaker 3: the hospital, until they find out all the things about me,
Speaker 3: major concussions and fractions and bruises and all like I'm
Speaker 3: a I've been abused, and it's no longer attempt to
Speaker 3: murder clearly at self defense.
Speaker 4: The change was big and immediate for Joe and his dad,
Speaker 4: Joe SR. Let's hear from just senior. Now do you
Speaker 4: have you know? I wanted to ask, do you have
Speaker 4: a scar?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 4: Can I see it? Yeah? I can see that your hair,
Speaker 4: your sort of your hair doesn't grow back where it is.
Speaker 6: Yeah. My barber.
Speaker 5: For years that would ask me, where'd you get that?
Speaker 5: I said, I was jumped by fifty kung fu guys
Speaker 5: and I came out of fight with only this, but
Speaker 5: you should see them. I wasn't in the mood to
Speaker 5: discuss it. Let me back up to give you the
Speaker 5: background a little bit. Okay, Okay, So I'm going out
Speaker 5: with this girl at the time, and I really treated
Speaker 5: that relationship totally different. And Joe had at that time
Speaker 5: the habit of anywhere and everywhere he went, he told him.
Speaker 6: How badly he was being mistreated.
Speaker 5: He told it the people at church, he told it
Speaker 5: to friends, he told it the family, you know. And
Speaker 5: this particular time, she wanted to spend some time with
Speaker 5: the boys. She liked them a lot, and they liked her.
Speaker 5: So they went out together and spent the day together.
Speaker 5: I think she took him out to eat in a
Speaker 5: movie or stuff, and they spent time and they and
Speaker 5: of course it was time for Joe to get to
Speaker 5: say something about me, and I had this great reputation
Speaker 5: with her, right and what happens. He goes and tells him, oh,
Speaker 5: my dad has been a brutal man, and blah blah,
Speaker 5: blah blah blah, just like sticking out to your relationship.
Speaker 5: And the night she dropped him off, and the next
Speaker 5: day she came over and she was really told her
Speaker 5: I never seen him like this, totally different person, very
Speaker 5: very very standoffish, a very matter of fact. She wasn't
Speaker 5: there's no affection whatsoever. And these were all things that
Speaker 5: she did. And I started putting the pieces together. So
Speaker 5: what happened is that I told him, I know you
Speaker 5: talk to so and so. She's like stunned, right, And
Speaker 5: that set me off and I did hit him again
Speaker 5: in the Emperor Torso, and I.
Speaker 6: Says, just get out of here, get out of here.
Speaker 5: So I made myself go for a long I took
Speaker 5: about a mile walk. When I came back, there's Joe.
Speaker 3: With a knife.
Speaker 5: And I made the worst mistake possible. I told him, Joe,
Speaker 5: it's all right, don't use that knife. Please give it
Speaker 5: to me. Give it to me.
Speaker 6: I'm not angry anymore. Give it to me.
Speaker 5: And I kept walking, you know, forward, my fault. And
Speaker 5: I kept walking forward, and I said, I'm not going
Speaker 5: to hurt you. This is it, this is the end
Speaker 5: of it. I'm not going to hurt you. I'm not
Speaker 5: angry anymore. I had an hour to walk and think
Speaker 5: about things, and after it, I went towards the bed
Speaker 5: and he was walking backwards and I was walking forward
Speaker 5: and he fell back on the bed and I jumped
Speaker 5: on him and said, give me the knife.
Speaker 6: It's all right, it's all right.
Speaker 5: And he moved up. He moved his body and close
Speaker 5: to the edge of the bed, and I rolled over
Speaker 5: and then I felt something warm in my neck. I
Speaker 5: found something warm in my neck, and then I felt
Speaker 5: I knew he stabbed me. And then the next thing
Speaker 5: he does is he turns the knife. I was shocked,
Speaker 5: and I said, that asshole, you know, I said to
Speaker 5: my to myself, what an asshole?
Speaker 6: He turned the knife.
Speaker 5: And then it hit me, and then it hit me.
Speaker 5: He didn't stab you. You made him stab you. Think
Speaker 5: of all that, I went my memory went right back
Speaker 5: when he was a little baby on that high chair,
Speaker 5: just loving to see his daddy, the one that told
Speaker 5: me that he loved me.
Speaker 6: As long as counting goes.
Speaker 5: He was a little child. I was so proud of
Speaker 5: what happened. You treated him that way. We're here because
Speaker 5: of you, Joe. It was my moment of clarity. So
Speaker 5: what if they didn't obey you always? So what if
Speaker 5: they were the kids they were? They were still loving kids.
Speaker 5: So what about all this crap that you made important
Speaker 5: that wasn't that important? They were important. I thought of
Speaker 5: his mother, how I let her down, and I saw
Speaker 5: them I will change. It's a long been a long journey.
Speaker 5: You can't go through all of that stuff. I don't
Speaker 5: consider that Joe stabbed me. I consider that I put
Speaker 5: that knife in his hand and told him to do it.
Speaker 5: How could he trust me? How could he believe I'm
Speaker 5: not I didn't attempt to do anything but just take
Speaker 5: the knife and put it down and talk with him
Speaker 5: and let him know it will never happen again. No,
Speaker 5: I'm the culprit here, not him, and I take full
Speaker 5: responsibility for that. Things changed after that. Joe became more difficult,
Speaker 5: and I knew that. I could see his attitude. He
Speaker 5: was empowered. But you know what, he had every right
Speaker 5: to go through that again. Had I treated him differently,
Speaker 5: we wouldn't be here and be experiencing what he had
Speaker 5: to experience. See, they have a saying payback is you
Speaker 5: know what? And I was getting mine and I had
Speaker 5: to shut up and take it because I created this.
Speaker 5: I had to reach out and I had to be
Speaker 5: the one they let him know that I loved him
Speaker 5: and show it, not just say it. Let them know, yeah,
Speaker 5: I would. I would make further mistakes, but none of
Speaker 5: them would include what had happened that day or days
Speaker 5: before that. That chapter, so to speak, ended then and
Speaker 5: there was the horrible five six years.
Speaker 4: After just tabbing, the boys stayed away from their dad,
Speaker 4: abused like that, casts a law and dark shadow.
Speaker 5: Paul spent time over there with my sister a lot.
Speaker 5: He'd stay for nights in her garage because he had
Speaker 5: two jobs, and he'd come home late. And he was
Speaker 5: he had two jobs and he was in school in
Speaker 5: high school. Uh, that's been That's Paul all the way,
Speaker 5: hard worker. Joe, on the other hand, went to live
Speaker 5: with friends with friends, he went with another family, Okay,
Speaker 5: and it was it was a time when I missed them.
Speaker 5: I knew I had to go through this. I had
Speaker 5: to prove to them that I cared for them, I
Speaker 5: loved them, that I knew that I had done a
Speaker 5: lot of wrong.
Speaker 4: But believe it or not, neither Joe nor Paul cut
Speaker 4: off ties with Joe.
Speaker 5: Joe came out to visit me a couple of times.
Speaker 5: Paul was the first one to come home, but then
Speaker 5: Joe decided he was going to come home as well.
Speaker 5: And I was happy to have them both and it
Speaker 5: was a different dynamic in the house altogether. I had
Speaker 5: basically learned to just take a hands off approach. Let
Speaker 5: them experience whatever it's supposed they're supposed to experience, don't
Speaker 5: get on their cases about things have more levity in
Speaker 5: the house, don't be threatening in any way, form or shape.
Speaker 5: It was an interesting time. Joe tells me that he
Speaker 5: was cocky and he could sense that I had changed,
Speaker 5: and I was really trying, but he was going to
Speaker 5: punish me. He wasn't going to, you know, put some
Speaker 5: mental pain on me, and which he did, but again
Speaker 5: I deserved it.
Speaker 6: That was my That's what I had to go through.
Speaker 4: As soon as he can. Paul joins the military just
Speaker 4: to get out of there. Joe sticks around you, Stella
Speaker 4: and starts falling into.
Speaker 3: I never blamed my dad for what I did at all,
Speaker 3: none of my crimes. I say, Dad, when you punch
Speaker 3: me in the mouth, you did alter my imagination about
Speaker 3: how effective violence could be. You did do that. But
Speaker 3: I don't blame him for whatever I did. I just
Speaker 3: never do feels weak. And something happened that day. I
Speaker 3: started becoming terrible. This thing that was awakened in me.
Speaker 3: It was brilliant in a way in that I changed
Speaker 3: my story so dramatically. The arc of my story changed,
Speaker 3: the propulsion of my story changed, and the direction changed
Speaker 3: from this point of brokenness and pain and even fuzziness
Speaker 3: because of the concussion what I was able to draw
Speaker 3: up to make happen. And I tried to kill that
Speaker 3: man that day. I failed, thank God, But that's what
Speaker 3: I was trying. I was trying to turn myself in
Speaker 3: a murderer that day. This was the thing that put
Speaker 3: me on the path trying to murder my father and father.
Speaker 2: You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the
Speaker 2: Money and Run. The Burden is produced by Orbit Media.
Speaker 2: Get the Money and Run is produced by Western Sound
Speaker 2: and a Cast Studios. Next Day tuned for episode four,
Speaker 2: Life and Crimes.
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