WEBVTT - Get the Money and Run | The Hunter 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.080 Joe Loya has agreed to answer our questions, so please 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:09.080 send yours to info at Orbitmedia dot FM or leave 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.760 them in the comments on Spotify or Apple. Thank you, 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.480 Hi there, It's Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. This is 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.160 Get the Money and Run. In this episode, episode three, 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.960 we ask what happens when Joe is pushed to the 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:32.840 brink and beyond. Joe's answer changes everything. And by the way, 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:36.760 this episode took my breath away. Remember to binge all 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.800 seven episodes ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.760 Apple Podcasts. All right over to Ben. 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.640 You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:58.440 Money and Run. I'm Benedeir and this is episode three 0:00:59.160 --> 0:00:59.640 The Hunter. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:16.640 I never remember what motivated me to go to Valencia, 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:22.360 California and north of LA And normally my thing was 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:24.600 to just stay as close to the freeway as possible. 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.360 And as I kept driving from long light to long light, 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.080 thing I should turn around here, I'm like, oh, let 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:34.760 me just see a little further. It's gotta be one here. 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.360 But I get to this bank, I'm like, I'm a 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.520 mile a half in the freeway, but there's a bank 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.440 there and this is the perfect kind of bank to rub. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.040 The thing that makes it perfect is it's right there 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.400 on the street. There's this giant parking lot all around it, 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.280 and then behind the parking lot there is the Ralphs 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.480 and a bunch of stores and probably twenty shops in 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.200 there easily and says, let me fucking do this thing. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.880 So I park back there, walk through the parking lot. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:04.520 It's a long parking lot. Yeah, it's a good, little, 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.920 good little walk. I walk inside the bank and I 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.400 do my spiel. It's a simple spiel. They have a 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:16.160 bomb or whatever. I pull the bank robbery. I walk out. 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:21.120 And this is one of those fascinating like epiphany days. 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.560 I walk out of the bank and I start walking 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:26.960 through the parking lot. 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:28.240 Are you walking or running? 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:28.640 Now? 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.720 I'm walking, you're walking. I'm just another person walking between 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.240 cars right in the parking lot. I'm trying to blend in. 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.400 But I do turn around, and I notice towlers run 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:40.280 out of the bank. And as soon as they run 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:41.760 out of the bank and they get to the curb, 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.160 they don't look up and see me. What they do 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.480 is they immediately come out and they start turning ahead 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.000 left to right, and they start looking in the cars 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.200 that are driving by, because they assumed, like on TV, 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.440 that I there was a getaway driver and I'm in 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.640 one of those cars, because they're buying into the hype, 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.320 into the old story. They're buying into some false sense 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.200 of what happens when I'm the reality of what happens. 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:11.880 Like that was something I was invisible. I was looking 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.440 right at them, and I might as well have been 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:15.840 a fucking ghost because they could not see me. They 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.359 never looked up, they didn't and I just walked away. Casually. 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.040 Later on, I would continue to do that, and I 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:26.880 would always look around and I was marvel at that. 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.480 But I remember that was the first time where I 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:32.320 was like, whoa, I'm right here here. What the fuck? 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.640 How come you can't see me? You know, it was 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.000 really strange. It was an interesting thing on human psychology, 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:39.800 you know, to understand that that's what was going on. 0:03:43.160 --> 0:04:01.560 And I got away. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.960 So at the end of the last episode, you just 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.120 told your dad's new girlfriend all about the abuse and 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.800 the trauma that you and your brother Paul are suffering, 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.800 and then you picked up a knife. You're right, sizzlerry. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:17.200 He picked up a steak knife, and you said the 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.440 next time your dad hits you, you're gonna stab. 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.920 Him in the neck. Yeah, I mean, how. 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:24.599 Did she respond to that? How did she respond to 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.440 you and your brother telling her all this stuff? 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.760 Yeah, she was really shocked. And when I handled the 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:33.240 knife for the first thing was like, no, put it down. 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.360 Violence doesn't solve anything, which is very sweet. But then 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.080 I realized, you can't tell my dad what happened. You 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.120 can't confront him. You're not you know, in my head, 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.720 she's not strong enough. So she tells us she's gonna 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.200 figure it out, she's the adult, but she won't tell him. 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.880 But she's such a sweetheart. She has no idea who 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.080 she's working with. She's not an actress. She's not a 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.880 good liar. In fact, that's the thing that's beautiful about her. 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:04.400 She's an honest, transparent woman. And what we the information 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.440 we had just given her devastated her, Like it's just 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.880 what how do I process? Good people like that don't 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.919 know how to hide those feelings. But she believed you. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:14.240 She thought you were telling the truth. 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.520 Yeah, she knew where the truth. And even if she didn't, 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:19.320 she still had to process the fact that these boys 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.480 are telling her some really terrible things about the guy 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.800 had to give her pause, and that's all my dad needed. 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:29.760 He could feel the molecules between them shift. Man, there's 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.719 a thing. And especially if you're an insecure man who's 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.160 trying to control situations, you pick up you're always picking 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:47.640 up the vide Where am I losing hold? We goes by. 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:50.720 We would always go to the laundromat. We would wash 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:55.320 clothes and he it was a disco era, like polyester 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.559 pants were lure her clothes and it was this weird, weird, 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.080 weird fashioned time. And you know, he used to go 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:02.760 to disco and he used to love to dance. My 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.800 dad was a cool little dancer dude. Man, but we 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.280 were poor. You know, he had gone bankrupt. We were struggling. 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:10.719 Ye had he lost his job? 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.400 Like since yeah, yeah, he'd lost his job. 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:14.360 Oh wow, okay, Uh. 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:20.080 We go to the laundromat. It's a Sunday and I 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.159 fuck up and I dry his clothes clothing the dryer 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:25.080 and they're not supposed to be in the driver. They're 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:26.960 not supposed to be at their temperature or right. Somehow 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.960 I ruin the big chunk of his wardrobe and you know, accidentally, 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.000 but he was he was very angry. Obviously he was angry. 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.600 You know, it was frustrated. I'd be frustrated too. You 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:39.880 ruin half my shitty wardrobe. I'm gonna be pissed, well, 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:44.640 especially your nice disco clothes and my disco costume. So 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.359 we come home and he's mad, you know, you know 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:49.719 it gives me the slap in the face. Go to 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.279 the room. We could feel he's angry, and he starts 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:56.279 washing dishes, and then he calls me to the kitchen, 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.320 very strange, all the tension, and he says, he, by 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.159 the way, I talked to Susie and she told me 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.960 what you said. An instantly I'm like, fuck, she couldn't 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.800 keep her mouth shut. We are in trouble. And then 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.040 he does this thing where he's like, but it's fine, 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.960 I get it, you needed to do it. He just 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:23.080 goes total Joe magnanimous on us, right, And there's a 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.000 thing when you're a kid, you want your parents to 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.600 be righteous. Man. So he says that he's fine with it, 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.320 and all he needs is for me to be honest 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.240 and admit that I talked to her about what happened. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.240 I confessed to him like yeah, yeah, yeah, I did 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.840 and it's the first and last time I ever confessed 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:46.800 no crime. And the reason is because he immediately gets 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:52.040 mad and he was fishing. He didn't know shit. He 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:58.320 was playing me, so he got what he wanted. And 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.680 then he grabs a teapot and I, oh shit, I 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.600 got a run. He throws the tea pot of me, 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.000 hits me, bangs up against my arm or something. I 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.040 would go running in the bedroom and then it's on 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:09.960 like Donkey car mat. He starts beating the shit out 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.120 of me, and he beats me with everything. I mean, 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:16.440 it's like teapot was in there and a hamper. You know, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.800 later on the police reports would say, you know, fracture 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:28.040 bones and concussion Jesus, yeah, rib and elbow, so yeah. 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:29.640 And I mean, I'm getting a good beating. I'm a 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:34.880 vicious beating man, one of the worst. And then he 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.600 leaves the house and goes to break up with Susie 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.800 by phone. And when he goes to break with Susie 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:43.960 by phone, he has to go to a seventy eleven 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.560 because we don't have a phone. We're poor, And so 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.200 he leaves and I tell Paul very quickly get in 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.160 the bathroom because it clicks in my head. This is 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.280 the time I need to stab them. I said I 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.560 would and now gonna do it. 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.680 So you were thinking back to like did you actually 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:05.920 think about like, yeah, your time in the restaurant, Like 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:06.960 I said, I was gonna do it. 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:11.520 Absolutely absolutely. I'm now feeling like I'm swimming in morbidity. Man. 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.240 I fucking got fear, I got confusion, I got a concussion, 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.000 I'm getting beat. It's like a fucking fugue state. It's 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:18.880 on here. Oh you did do a knife thing. Oh 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.480 he humiliated you. Oh you don't like feeling that now's 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.560 the time to do it. Okay, what where's the knives? 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.640 I don't know, Paul, he's in the bathroom, like protecting it. 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.320 Bro Like it's just all fucking swimming in that shit, 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:33.400 right And I had already declared it. So there I 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.080 have something I can even though it feels like it's 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.280 a miasma, there is something I declared and I put 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.560 down in the ground. I can grab for and say 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.400 I said I would stab him next time, and that's 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.680 what I latch hunt in all of that shit. It's like, Okay, 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.640 that's the thing will get me out of this moment, 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.079 This is what you do. You declared it. Let's rock it. 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.720 And so I go get the knife and put it 0:09:55.760 --> 0:10:00.440 under the pillow. He comes back and he's stands in 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.640 the door. He's looking at me, and he's ready for 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.760 around two. And ready for around two means I could 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.400 see ze on the balls of his feet. His neck 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.560 is loose, he's awe, he's just fucking body's electric, you know. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.880 His shoulders are loose. He's he's ready to put in work. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:20.480 He looks at me, and then he looks over in 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.960 the corner and he sees a weight set, old shitty 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.200 weight set. He was the kind that had The weights 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:30.360 were were cement but wrapped in plastic, and there's this 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.400 long bar and he starts. He walks over there, locked 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.520 eyes on me, menacing me like aha, I got something 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:38.240 for your ass. And he goes over there he starts 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.400 to disassemble the weight. Now that the thing, the assembly 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:43.640 that locks it in. It's a big piece of metal. 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.520 It looks like a big piece of steel, and then 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.679 there's the bar, and then there's the weights. If he 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:51.520 hits me with any of that ship I'm fucking through 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.280 money that that I'm gonna be injured. No matter what I. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.280 Mean, hitting you with any of those things could kill you. 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:03.400 Yeah. So yeah, So I'm like, what the fuck? This 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:07.000 is a whole new level of improvised savagery for this dude. 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:17.120 He's mad. So this is what I hate about telling 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.400 this fucking story. You see. I know this because this 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:21.640 is what I do when I go in the bank. 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.600 Same fucking thing. He's menacing me. He wants a fucking 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:29.720 he's he's lapping up my fear and it's just empowering 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:34.640 him to do some crazy shit. Right. So, I'm sitting 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.400 in the bed and then I reach underneath my pillow 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.959 pull out the knife. I stand up and I look 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.400 at him, and he's like, oh shit. And then he 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.480 like puts the weight down, and you know, I'm holding 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.360 the steak knife, but I'm only holding it. And then 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.600 he like starts walking to me slowly, so he put 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:52.920 it down, put it down, or give me the knife, 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.360 give me the knife. I'm like, fuck that, I'm not 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.640 giving this due the knife, I know I have only 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:01.600 this move right here. I run him, charging him and 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.440 put the arm up, go to attack him. I come 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.000 up and come down and he puts his arm up 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.640 and he blocks me. I'm like, oh shit. He doesn't 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.920 block me by grabbing my arm. He just blocks me 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:15.680 with his arms to my arm could kind of slide 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.880 up and over and he's like, oh shit. And I 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.200 get it over and he turns his head and I 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.800 stab him in the back and he goes into his 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.920 muscle right next to his spinal cord in his neck, 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.720 and I stab it in and I'm in there and 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:36.640 then I start twisting to try and break it off, 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.880 and he's like, ah, you killed me, you killed me. 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.199 I mean, I'm putting in work and he knows I'm 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.800 putting in work, and I believe I'm trying to kill him, 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:51.719 and he's gonna die, and I'm fucking a beast. In 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:59.120 this moment he falls, I stand over him and I 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.640 say something like fucking dramatic. I don't say this is 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.600 what your evil hath wrought kind of shit, but I said, like, 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:08.120 you get that's what you got coming, or you did 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.319 this to yourself, or you killed yourself something like that. 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.200 I'm out and I go to the bathroom. Propose already 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.360 out of the front door, said Joey, would you do 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:23.080 just let's go run and he runs out without me, 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.040 ahead of me, and I'm running down the middle of 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.040 the road and I'm Freemont and then I'm like, okay, 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.440 he's gonna pull that dude the monster too. And I 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.200 start worrying, like, oh shit, he wasn't dead when I left, 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.160 so maybe he pulled it out. Oh what if he's 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.439 coming with that night ow shit. I kind of started 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.760 feeling that, like, what if he lives and pulls it out, 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.720 We're dead if I I didn't actually make sure he 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:51.200 was dead. So n I said, let's go this street. 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.240 And so we're still going to turn my aunt Glorious on, 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:55.400 but we're going up another road and we take the 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.559 long way instead of the straight Fremont to her house 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.040 because I didn't want to get in the car and 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.439 coming and get it it. We finally make it, sneak 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.920 across the highway and get over there my Glorias, and 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.679 I'm like, my dad, I kill my dad. I kill 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:11.120 my dad. She calls the cops. She was my dad's 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.040 closest sister. But she calls the cops. 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:44.560 We'll be right back, So Joe, what happened next? 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:52.440 When cops come and they take us, and I'm calm 0:14:52.480 --> 0:15:00.480 at the police station, I'm sitting there, like, you know, 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:07.760 there's a movie where Kevin Spacey is Kaiser usual suspects, 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:12.160 Usual suspects. I'm like one of those cool assute usual suspects. 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.320 When I'm just sitting there, I got almost picture of 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.240 my knees, my legs crossed, and I'm sitting there smoking 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.000 a cigarette, all casual and cool because I'm not smoking 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.280 a cigarette any laser and cross But I am so 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.720 pumped from what happened and feeling the power of that 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.240 when you kill somebody, and for a moment I thought 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:37.640 my dad was dead. I killed him. That was a 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.200 different power when you do that and you talk to 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.120 people who kill people, and I had friends whould say, 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.040 you know, the you know, the only thing stopping that 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.040 man from being dead right now, and I say no one, 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.480 They would say, my decision. And to be a man 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.840 who that's true to, like, you know the only thing 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.400 that I'm like sitting here looking here and saying, you 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.480 have no clue, but the reason your life is because 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.120 right now I choose to not kill you. That's a 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:11.880 powerful way to move in the world. For a moment, 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.040 I could feel that, Oh man, I'm the kind of 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.360 guy who now can just say you you're done. You 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:19.880 I let you live longer you you're done. You know 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:29.920 that kind of thing, And then they take me to 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:35.160 interrogate me. The police officer wants hearing my story, and 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.680 as I start telling him my story, thinking that I'm 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.520 telling him how I was abused and he tried to 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.480 hurt us and I did it on self defense, and 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.040 then he starts asking me questions. Very quickly, I start 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.000 realizing for the kinds of questions he's asking me, like 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.480 why didn't you run away? Why didn't you call anyone? 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:57.840 So you got the knife and you waited in bed? 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.160 You have waited on your bed with it under the pillow, hiding, 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.720 And I realized he's painting a picture of me, of 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.679 laying and wait because the portrait he's paying in his 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:08.800 head and he's like, you didn't have to stab him, 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:10.879 You could have called us, And he's painted this as 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.520 an attempted murder. And I realized, sitting there, I'm smart enough 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.840 to kind of get the impression that you probably beat 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.440 the fuck out of your kid, and you don't want 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:21.720 you don't like me, you don't like what I represent 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:24.600 because we ain't taking shit from people like you, and 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.840 you're backing my dad's play. I just told you what 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.880 he did, and he's not looking at me like I'm 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.520 an abuse kid who tried to defend himself from his 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.280 father who came back from round two. But for one, 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:38.800 when I'm sitting here telling the story about how I 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.720 killed my dad, I felt like fucking King Kong. I 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:46.160 was like, or maybe David's the better analogy. I fucking 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.080 took out Goliath right like I I'm a badass, Like 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:51.879 I can start looking at this cop like you're a 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.600 fucking piece of shit for backing my dad's play. I'm 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:58.919 starting to like recognize this. He maybe even starting this 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.600 in the beginning of like, oh, your authority figure, fuck you. 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.240 Oh your authority figure could give each other cover to 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.280 do shit like this to us. Fuck you. I do 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.280 remember resenting the fuck out of that guy very fast. 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.720 So you're sitting in the police station and you thought 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.760 that you killed your dad, Yeah, what are you feeling 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:19.879 towards him in this moment? 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.960 Some point in that in the precinct, I learned that 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.800 he was alive because when they went there, he wasn't there. 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:29.959 He's not dead on the floor in there. So we 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:34.359 do learn that I do learn that eventually, and the 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.119 adrenaline all goes away, and all of a sudden, my 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.760 fucking arms and ribbed. It hurts to breathe because if 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.080 you've ever had fractured ribs, you know, the tissue around 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.320 it gets swollen and then your lungs are pushing up again, 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.040 so it's hard to breathe. I start having problems, and 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.439 I explained that I'm having problems, so they take them 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.520 to the doctor in the hospital. When they get to 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:56.399 the hospital, until they find out all the things about me, 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.760 major concussions and fractions and bruises and all like I'm 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.399 a I've been abused, and it's no longer attempt to 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:04.720 murder clearly at self defense. 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:26.240 The change was big and immediate for Joe and his dad, 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:32.800 Joe SR. Let's hear from just senior. Now do you 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:34.399 have you know? I wanted to ask, do you have 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:34.840 a scar? 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:36.560 Yes? 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:45.800 Can I see it? Yeah? I can see that your hair, 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:47.760 your sort of your hair doesn't grow back where it is. 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.760 Yeah. My barber. 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.000 For years that would ask me, where'd you get that? 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:01.280 I said, I was jumped by fifty kung fu guys 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.760 and I came out of fight with only this, but 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.600 you should see them. I wasn't in the mood to 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.760 discuss it. Let me back up to give you the 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:17.359 background a little bit. Okay, Okay, So I'm going out 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:24.119 with this girl at the time, and I really treated 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:29.480 that relationship totally different. And Joe had at that time 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:35.159 the habit of anywhere and everywhere he went, he told him. 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:36.600 How badly he was being mistreated. 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.240 He told it the people at church, he told it 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.600 to friends, he told it the family, you know. And 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.240 this particular time, she wanted to spend some time with 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.760 the boys. She liked them a lot, and they liked her. 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.439 So they went out together and spent the day together. 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:55.840 I think she took him out to eat in a 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.280 movie or stuff, and they spent time and they and 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.720 of course it was time for Joe to get to 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.879 say something about me, and I had this great reputation 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.240 with her, right and what happens. He goes and tells him, oh, 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:10.480 my dad has been a brutal man, and blah blah, 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.640 blah blah blah, just like sticking out to your relationship. 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.800 And the night she dropped him off, and the next 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.040 day she came over and she was really told her 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:24.439 I never seen him like this, totally different person, very 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:31.320 very very standoffish, a very matter of fact. She wasn't 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.639 there's no affection whatsoever. And these were all things that 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:39.560 she did. And I started putting the pieces together. So 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.399 what happened is that I told him, I know you 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:47.480 talk to so and so. She's like stunned, right, And 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:52.639 that set me off and I did hit him again 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.760 in the Emperor Torso, and I. 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:57.840 Says, just get out of here, get out of here. 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.000 So I made myself go for a long I took 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.960 about a mile walk. When I came back, there's Joe. 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:05.399 With a knife. 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:11.680 And I made the worst mistake possible. I told him, Joe, 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:15.879 it's all right, don't use that knife. Please give it 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:17.520 to me. Give it to me. 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.359 I'm not angry anymore. Give it to me. 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:26.600 And I kept walking, you know, forward, my fault. And 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.040 I kept walking forward, and I said, I'm not going 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:31.080 to hurt you. This is it, this is the end 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:32.639 of it. I'm not going to hurt you. I'm not 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:36.840 angry anymore. I had an hour to walk and think 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:42.320 about things, and after it, I went towards the bed 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.439 and he was walking backwards and I was walking forward 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:48.560 and he fell back on the bed and I jumped 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:50.000 on him and said, give me the knife. 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.240 It's all right, it's all right. 0:22:53.400 --> 0:23:00.480 And he moved up. He moved his body and close 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:03.480 to the edge of the bed, and I rolled over 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:09.240 and then I felt something warm in my neck. I 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:15.119 found something warm in my neck, and then I felt 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.080 I knew he stabbed me. And then the next thing 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.960 he does is he turns the knife. I was shocked, 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:26.359 and I said, that asshole, you know, I said to 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:29.080 my to myself, what an asshole? 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.200 He turned the knife. 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:35.040 And then it hit me, and then it hit me. 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:41.640 He didn't stab you. You made him stab you. Think 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:45.520 of all that, I went my memory went right back 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:49.280 when he was a little baby on that high chair, 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:54.560 just loving to see his daddy, the one that told 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:55.560