1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Joe Loya has agreed to answer our questions, so please 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: send yours to info at Orbitmedia dot FM or leave 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: them in the comments on Spotify or Apple. Thank you, 4 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: Hi there, It's Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. This is 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: Get the Money and Run. In this episode, episode three, 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: we ask what happens when Joe is pushed to the 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: brink and beyond. Joe's answer changes everything. And by the way, 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: this episode took my breath away. Remember to binge all 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: seven episodes ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. All right over to Ben. 11 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the 12 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 2: Money and Run. I'm Benedeir and this is episode three 13 00:00:59,160 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 2: The Hunter. 14 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: I never remember what motivated me to go to Valencia, 15 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 3: California and north of LA And normally my thing was 16 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 3: to just stay as close to the freeway as possible. 17 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 3: And as I kept driving from long light to long light, 18 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 3: thing I should turn around here, I'm like, oh, let 19 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 3: me just see a little further. It's gotta be one here. 20 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 3: But I get to this bank, I'm like, I'm a 21 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 3: mile a half in the freeway, but there's a bank 22 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 3: there and this is the perfect kind of bank to rub. 23 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 3: The thing that makes it perfect is it's right there 24 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: on the street. There's this giant parking lot all around it, 25 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 3: and then behind the parking lot there is the Ralphs 26 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: and a bunch of stores and probably twenty shops in 27 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 3: there easily and says, let me fucking do this thing. 28 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 3: So I park back there, walk through the parking lot. 29 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 3: It's a long parking lot. Yeah, it's a good, little, 30 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 3: good little walk. I walk inside the bank and I 31 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 3: do my spiel. It's a simple spiel. They have a 32 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 3: bomb or whatever. I pull the bank robbery. I walk out. 33 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: And this is one of those fascinating like epiphany days. 34 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 3: I walk out of the bank and I start walking 35 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 3: through the parking lot. 36 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 4: Are you walking or running? 37 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 5: Now? 38 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: I'm walking, you're walking. I'm just another person walking between 39 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 3: cars right in the parking lot. I'm trying to blend in. 40 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 3: But I do turn around, and I notice towlers run 41 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 3: out of the bank. And as soon as they run 42 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 3: out of the bank and they get to the curb, 43 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 3: they don't look up and see me. What they do 44 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 3: is they immediately come out and they start turning ahead 45 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: left to right, and they start looking in the cars 46 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 3: that are driving by, because they assumed, like on TV, 47 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 3: that I there was a getaway driver and I'm in 48 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 3: one of those cars, because they're buying into the hype, 49 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 3: into the old story. They're buying into some false sense 50 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: of what happens when I'm the reality of what happens. 51 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: Like that was something I was invisible. I was looking 52 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 3: right at them, and I might as well have been 53 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: a fucking ghost because they could not see me. They 54 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 3: never looked up, they didn't and I just walked away. Casually. 55 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 3: Later on, I would continue to do that, and I 56 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: would always look around and I was marvel at that. 57 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 3: But I remember that was the first time where I 58 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 3: was like, whoa, I'm right here here. What the fuck? 59 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 3: How come you can't see me? You know, it was 60 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 3: really strange. It was an interesting thing on human psychology, 61 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: you know, to understand that that's what was going on. 62 00:03:43,160 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 3: And I got away. 63 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 4: So at the end of the last episode, you just 64 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 4: told your dad's new girlfriend all about the abuse and 65 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 4: the trauma that you and your brother Paul are suffering, 66 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 4: and then you picked up a knife. You're right, sizzlerry. 67 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 4: He picked up a steak knife, and you said the 68 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 4: next time your dad hits you, you're gonna stab. 69 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 3: Him in the neck. Yeah, I mean, how. 70 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 4: Did she respond to that? How did she respond to 71 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 4: you and your brother telling her all this stuff? 72 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, she was really shocked. And when I handled the 73 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 3: knife for the first thing was like, no, put it down. 74 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 3: Violence doesn't solve anything, which is very sweet. But then 75 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: I realized, you can't tell my dad what happened. You 76 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: can't confront him. You're not you know, in my head, 77 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 3: she's not strong enough. So she tells us she's gonna 78 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: figure it out, she's the adult, but she won't tell him. 79 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: But she's such a sweetheart. She has no idea who 80 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: she's working with. She's not an actress. She's not a 81 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: good liar. In fact, that's the thing that's beautiful about her. 82 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 3: She's an honest, transparent woman. And what we the information 83 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: we had just given her devastated her, Like it's just 84 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 3: what how do I process? Good people like that don't 85 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 3: know how to hide those feelings. But she believed you. 86 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 4: She thought you were telling the truth. 87 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, she knew where the truth. And even if she didn't, 88 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: she still had to process the fact that these boys 89 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 3: are telling her some really terrible things about the guy 90 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 3: had to give her pause, and that's all my dad needed. 91 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 3: He could feel the molecules between them shift. Man, there's 92 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 3: a thing. And especially if you're an insecure man who's 93 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 3: trying to control situations, you pick up you're always picking 94 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: up the vide Where am I losing hold? We goes by. 95 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 3: We would always go to the laundromat. We would wash 96 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 3: clothes and he it was a disco era, like polyester 97 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,559 Speaker 3: pants were lure her clothes and it was this weird, weird, 98 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 3: weird fashioned time. And you know, he used to go 99 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 3: to disco and he used to love to dance. My 100 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 3: dad was a cool little dancer dude. Man, but we 101 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 3: were poor. You know, he had gone bankrupt. We were struggling. 102 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 4: Ye had he lost his job? 103 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: Like since yeah, yeah, he'd lost his job. 104 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 4: Oh wow, okay, Uh. 105 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 3: We go to the laundromat. It's a Sunday and I 106 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 3: fuck up and I dry his clothes clothing the dryer 107 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: and they're not supposed to be in the driver. They're 108 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 3: not supposed to be at their temperature or right. Somehow 109 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: I ruin the big chunk of his wardrobe and you know, accidentally, 110 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 3: but he was he was very angry. Obviously he was angry. 111 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 3: You know, it was frustrated. I'd be frustrated too. You 112 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 3: ruin half my shitty wardrobe. I'm gonna be pissed, well, 113 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: especially your nice disco clothes and my disco costume. So 114 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 3: we come home and he's mad, you know, you know 115 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 3: it gives me the slap in the face. Go to 116 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 3: the room. We could feel he's angry, and he starts 117 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 3: washing dishes, and then he calls me to the kitchen, 118 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 3: very strange, all the tension, and he says, he, by 119 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 3: the way, I talked to Susie and she told me 120 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 3: what you said. An instantly I'm like, fuck, she couldn't 121 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 3: keep her mouth shut. We are in trouble. And then 122 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: he does this thing where he's like, but it's fine, 123 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: I get it, you needed to do it. He just 124 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 3: goes total Joe magnanimous on us, right, And there's a 125 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 3: thing when you're a kid, you want your parents to 126 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 3: be righteous. Man. So he says that he's fine with it, 127 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 3: and all he needs is for me to be honest 128 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: and admit that I talked to her about what happened. 129 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 3: I confessed to him like yeah, yeah, yeah, I did 130 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 3: and it's the first and last time I ever confessed 131 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 3: no crime. And the reason is because he immediately gets 132 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 3: mad and he was fishing. He didn't know shit. He 133 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 3: was playing me, so he got what he wanted. And 134 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 3: then he grabs a teapot and I, oh shit, I 135 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: got a run. He throws the tea pot of me, 136 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 3: hits me, bangs up against my arm or something. I 137 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 3: would go running in the bedroom and then it's on 138 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 3: like Donkey car mat. He starts beating the shit out 139 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: of me, and he beats me with everything. I mean, 140 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: it's like teapot was in there and a hamper. You know, 141 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 3: later on the police reports would say, you know, fracture 142 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: bones and concussion Jesus, yeah, rib and elbow, so yeah. 143 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm getting a good beating. I'm a 144 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 3: vicious beating man, one of the worst. And then he 145 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 3: leaves the house and goes to break up with Susie 146 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 3: by phone. And when he goes to break with Susie 147 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 3: by phone, he has to go to a seventy eleven 148 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 3: because we don't have a phone. We're poor, And so 149 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 3: he leaves and I tell Paul very quickly get in 150 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 3: the bathroom because it clicks in my head. This is 151 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: the time I need to stab them. I said I 152 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 3: would and now gonna do it. 153 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 4: So you were thinking back to like did you actually 154 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 4: think about like, yeah, your time in the restaurant, Like 155 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 4: I said, I was gonna do it. 156 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely. I'm now feeling like I'm swimming in morbidity. Man. 157 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 3: I fucking got fear, I got confusion, I got a concussion, 158 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 3: I'm getting beat. It's like a fucking fugue state. It's 159 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 3: on here. Oh you did do a knife thing. Oh 160 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 3: he humiliated you. Oh you don't like feeling that now's 161 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: the time to do it. Okay, what where's the knives? 162 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 3: I don't know, Paul, he's in the bathroom, like protecting it. 163 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 3: Bro Like it's just all fucking swimming in that shit, 164 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 3: right And I had already declared it. So there I 165 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: have something I can even though it feels like it's 166 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 3: a miasma, there is something I declared and I put 167 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 3: down in the ground. I can grab for and say 168 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 3: I said I would stab him next time, and that's 169 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 3: what I latch hunt in all of that shit. It's like, Okay, 170 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 3: that's the thing will get me out of this moment, 171 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 3: This is what you do. You declared it. Let's rock it. 172 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 3: And so I go get the knife and put it 173 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 3: under the pillow. He comes back and he's stands in 174 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 3: the door. He's looking at me, and he's ready for 175 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: around two. And ready for around two means I could 176 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 3: see ze on the balls of his feet. His neck 177 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 3: is loose, he's awe, he's just fucking body's electric, you know. 178 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: His shoulders are loose. He's he's ready to put in work. 179 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 3: He looks at me, and then he looks over in 180 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 3: the corner and he sees a weight set, old shitty 181 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 3: weight set. He was the kind that had The weights 182 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: were were cement but wrapped in plastic, and there's this 183 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: long bar and he starts. He walks over there, locked 184 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 3: eyes on me, menacing me like aha, I got something 185 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 3: for your ass. And he goes over there he starts 186 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: to disassemble the weight. Now that the thing, the assembly 187 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 3: that locks it in. It's a big piece of metal. 188 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: It looks like a big piece of steel, and then 189 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 3: there's the bar, and then there's the weights. If he 190 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 3: hits me with any of that ship I'm fucking through 191 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 3: money that that I'm gonna be injured. No matter what I. 192 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 4: Mean, hitting you with any of those things could kill you. 193 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. So yeah, So I'm like, what the fuck? This 194 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 3: is a whole new level of improvised savagery for this dude. 195 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 3: He's mad. So this is what I hate about telling 196 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 3: this fucking story. You see. I know this because this 197 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 3: is what I do when I go in the bank. 198 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: Same fucking thing. He's menacing me. He wants a fucking 199 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: he's he's lapping up my fear and it's just empowering 200 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 3: him to do some crazy shit. Right. So, I'm sitting 201 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 3: in the bed and then I reach underneath my pillow 202 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 3: pull out the knife. I stand up and I look 203 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 3: at him, and he's like, oh shit. And then he 204 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: like puts the weight down, and you know, I'm holding 205 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: the steak knife, but I'm only holding it. And then 206 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 3: he like starts walking to me slowly, so he put 207 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 3: it down, put it down, or give me the knife, 208 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: give me the knife. I'm like, fuck that, I'm not 209 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 3: giving this due the knife, I know I have only 210 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: this move right here. I run him, charging him and 211 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 3: put the arm up, go to attack him. I come 212 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 3: up and come down and he puts his arm up 213 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 3: and he blocks me. I'm like, oh shit. He doesn't 214 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: block me by grabbing my arm. He just blocks me 215 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 3: with his arms to my arm could kind of slide 216 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 3: up and over and he's like, oh shit. And I 217 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 3: get it over and he turns his head and I 218 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 3: stab him in the back and he goes into his 219 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 3: muscle right next to his spinal cord in his neck, 220 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 3: and I stab it in and I'm in there and 221 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 3: then I start twisting to try and break it off, 222 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 3: and he's like, ah, you killed me, you killed me. 223 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm putting in work and he knows I'm 224 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 3: putting in work, and I believe I'm trying to kill him, 225 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 3: and he's gonna die, and I'm fucking a beast. In 226 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 3: this moment he falls, I stand over him and I 227 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 3: say something like fucking dramatic. I don't say this is 228 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 3: what your evil hath wrought kind of shit, but I said, like, 229 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: you get that's what you got coming, or you did 230 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 3: this to yourself, or you killed yourself something like that. 231 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 3: I'm out and I go to the bathroom. Propose already 232 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 3: out of the front door, said Joey, would you do 233 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 3: just let's go run and he runs out without me, 234 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 3: ahead of me, and I'm running down the middle of 235 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 3: the road and I'm Freemont and then I'm like, okay, 236 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 3: he's gonna pull that dude the monster too. And I 237 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 3: start worrying, like, oh shit, he wasn't dead when I left, 238 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 3: so maybe he pulled it out. Oh what if he's 239 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 3: coming with that night ow shit. I kind of started 240 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 3: feeling that, like, what if he lives and pulls it out, 241 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 3: We're dead if I I didn't actually make sure he 242 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 3: was dead. So n I said, let's go this street. 243 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 3: And so we're still going to turn my aunt Glorious on, 244 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 3: but we're going up another road and we take the 245 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 3: long way instead of the straight Fremont to her house 246 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 3: because I didn't want to get in the car and 247 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 3: coming and get it it. We finally make it, sneak 248 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 3: across the highway and get over there my Glorias, and 249 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 3: I'm like, my dad, I kill my dad. I kill 250 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: my dad. She calls the cops. She was my dad's 251 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 3: closest sister. But she calls the cops. 252 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 4: We'll be right back, So Joe, what happened next? 253 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 3: When cops come and they take us, and I'm calm 254 00:14:52,480 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 3: at the police station, I'm sitting there, like, you know, 255 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 3: there's a movie where Kevin Spacey is Kaiser usual suspects, 256 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 3: Usual suspects. I'm like one of those cool assute usual suspects. 257 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 3: When I'm just sitting there, I got almost picture of 258 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 3: my knees, my legs crossed, and I'm sitting there smoking 259 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 3: a cigarette, all casual and cool because I'm not smoking 260 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 3: a cigarette any laser and cross But I am so 261 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 3: pumped from what happened and feeling the power of that 262 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 3: when you kill somebody, and for a moment I thought 263 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 3: my dad was dead. I killed him. That was a 264 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: different power when you do that and you talk to 265 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 3: people who kill people, and I had friends whould say, 266 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 3: you know, the you know, the only thing stopping that 267 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 3: man from being dead right now, and I say no one, 268 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 3: They would say, my decision. And to be a man 269 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 3: who that's true to, like, you know the only thing 270 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 3: that I'm like sitting here looking here and saying, you 271 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: have no clue, but the reason your life is because 272 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 3: right now I choose to not kill you. That's a 273 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 3: powerful way to move in the world. For a moment, 274 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 3: I could feel that, Oh man, I'm the kind of 275 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: guy who now can just say you you're done. You 276 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 3: I let you live longer you you're done. You know 277 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 3: that kind of thing, And then they take me to 278 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 3: interrogate me. The police officer wants hearing my story, and 279 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 3: as I start telling him my story, thinking that I'm 280 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 3: telling him how I was abused and he tried to 281 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 3: hurt us and I did it on self defense, and 282 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 3: then he starts asking me questions. Very quickly, I start 283 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 3: realizing for the kinds of questions he's asking me, like 284 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 3: why didn't you run away? Why didn't you call anyone? 285 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 3: So you got the knife and you waited in bed? 286 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: You have waited on your bed with it under the pillow, hiding, 287 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 3: And I realized he's painting a picture of me, of 288 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 3: laying and wait because the portrait he's paying in his 289 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 3: head and he's like, you didn't have to stab him, 290 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 3: You could have called us, And he's painted this as 291 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 3: an attempted murder. And I realized, sitting there, I'm smart enough 292 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 3: to kind of get the impression that you probably beat 293 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 3: the fuck out of your kid, and you don't want 294 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 3: you don't like me, you don't like what I represent 295 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 3: because we ain't taking shit from people like you, and 296 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 3: you're backing my dad's play. I just told you what 297 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 3: he did, and he's not looking at me like I'm 298 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 3: an abuse kid who tried to defend himself from his 299 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 3: father who came back from round two. But for one, 300 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 3: when I'm sitting here telling the story about how I 301 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 3: killed my dad, I felt like fucking King Kong. I 302 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 3: was like, or maybe David's the better analogy. I fucking 303 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 3: took out Goliath right like I I'm a badass, Like 304 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: I can start looking at this cop like you're a 305 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 3: fucking piece of shit for backing my dad's play. I'm 306 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 3: starting to like recognize this. He maybe even starting this 307 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 3: in the beginning of like, oh, your authority figure, fuck you. 308 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 3: Oh your authority figure could give each other cover to 309 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: do shit like this to us. Fuck you. I do 310 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 3: remember resenting the fuck out of that guy very fast. 311 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 4: So you're sitting in the police station and you thought 312 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 4: that you killed your dad, Yeah, what are you feeling 313 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 4: towards him in this moment? 314 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 3: Some point in that in the precinct, I learned that 315 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 3: he was alive because when they went there, he wasn't there. 316 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 3: He's not dead on the floor in there. So we 317 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 3: do learn that I do learn that eventually, and the 318 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 3: adrenaline all goes away, and all of a sudden, my 319 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 3: fucking arms and ribbed. It hurts to breathe because if 320 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 3: you've ever had fractured ribs, you know, the tissue around 321 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 3: it gets swollen and then your lungs are pushing up again, 322 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 3: so it's hard to breathe. I start having problems, and 323 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 3: I explained that I'm having problems, so they take them 324 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 3: to the doctor in the hospital. When they get to 325 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 3: the hospital, until they find out all the things about me, 326 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 3: major concussions and fractions and bruises and all like I'm 327 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 3: a I've been abused, and it's no longer attempt to 328 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 3: murder clearly at self defense. 329 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 4: The change was big and immediate for Joe and his dad, 330 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 4: Joe SR. Let's hear from just senior. Now do you 331 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 4: have you know? I wanted to ask, do you have 332 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 4: a scar? 333 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 6: Yes? 334 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 4: Can I see it? Yeah? I can see that your hair, 335 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 4: your sort of your hair doesn't grow back where it is. 336 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 6: Yeah. My barber. 337 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 5: For years that would ask me, where'd you get that? 338 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 5: I said, I was jumped by fifty kung fu guys 339 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 5: and I came out of fight with only this, but 340 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 5: you should see them. I wasn't in the mood to 341 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 5: discuss it. Let me back up to give you the 342 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 5: background a little bit. Okay, Okay, So I'm going out 343 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 5: with this girl at the time, and I really treated 344 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 5: that relationship totally different. And Joe had at that time 345 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 5: the habit of anywhere and everywhere he went, he told him. 346 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 6: How badly he was being mistreated. 347 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 5: He told it the people at church, he told it 348 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 5: to friends, he told it the family, you know. And 349 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 5: this particular time, she wanted to spend some time with 350 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 5: the boys. She liked them a lot, and they liked her. 351 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 5: So they went out together and spent the day together. 352 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 5: I think she took him out to eat in a 353 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 5: movie or stuff, and they spent time and they and 354 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 5: of course it was time for Joe to get to 355 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 5: say something about me, and I had this great reputation 356 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 5: with her, right and what happens. He goes and tells him, oh, 357 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 5: my dad has been a brutal man, and blah blah, 358 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 5: blah blah blah, just like sticking out to your relationship. 359 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 5: And the night she dropped him off, and the next 360 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 5: day she came over and she was really told her 361 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 5: I never seen him like this, totally different person, very 362 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 5: very very standoffish, a very matter of fact. She wasn't 363 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 5: there's no affection whatsoever. And these were all things that 364 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 5: she did. And I started putting the pieces together. So 365 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 5: what happened is that I told him, I know you 366 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 5: talk to so and so. She's like stunned, right, And 367 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 5: that set me off and I did hit him again 368 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 5: in the Emperor Torso, and I. 369 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 6: Says, just get out of here, get out of here. 370 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 5: So I made myself go for a long I took 371 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 5: about a mile walk. When I came back, there's Joe. 372 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 3: With a knife. 373 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 5: And I made the worst mistake possible. I told him, Joe, 374 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 5: it's all right, don't use that knife. Please give it 375 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 5: to me. Give it to me. 376 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 6: I'm not angry anymore. Give it to me. 377 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 5: And I kept walking, you know, forward, my fault. And 378 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 5: I kept walking forward, and I said, I'm not going 379 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 5: to hurt you. This is it, this is the end 380 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 5: of it. I'm not going to hurt you. I'm not 381 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 5: angry anymore. I had an hour to walk and think 382 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 5: about things, and after it, I went towards the bed 383 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 5: and he was walking backwards and I was walking forward 384 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 5: and he fell back on the bed and I jumped 385 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 5: on him and said, give me the knife. 386 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 6: It's all right, it's all right. 387 00:22:53,400 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 5: And he moved up. He moved his body and close 388 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 5: to the edge of the bed, and I rolled over 389 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 5: and then I felt something warm in my neck. I 390 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 5: found something warm in my neck, and then I felt 391 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 5: I knew he stabbed me. And then the next thing 392 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 5: he does is he turns the knife. I was shocked, 393 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 5: and I said, that asshole, you know, I said to 394 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 5: my to myself, what an asshole? 395 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 6: He turned the knife. 396 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 5: And then it hit me, and then it hit me. 397 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 5: He didn't stab you. You made him stab you. Think 398 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 5: of all that, I went my memory went right back 399 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 5: when he was a little baby on that high chair, 400 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 5: just loving to see his daddy, the one that told 401 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 5: me that he loved me. 402 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 6: As long as counting goes. 403 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 5: He was a little child. I was so proud of 404 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 5: what happened. You treated him that way. We're here because 405 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 5: of you, Joe. It was my moment of clarity. So 406 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 5: what if they didn't obey you always? So what if 407 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 5: they were the kids they were? They were still loving kids. 408 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 5: So what about all this crap that you made important 409 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 5: that wasn't that important? They were important. I thought of 410 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 5: his mother, how I let her down, and I saw 411 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 5: them I will change. It's a long been a long journey. 412 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 5: You can't go through all of that stuff. I don't 413 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 5: consider that Joe stabbed me. I consider that I put 414 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 5: that knife in his hand and told him to do it. 415 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 5: How could he trust me? How could he believe I'm 416 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 5: not I didn't attempt to do anything but just take 417 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 5: the knife and put it down and talk with him 418 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 5: and let him know it will never happen again. No, 419 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 5: I'm the culprit here, not him, and I take full 420 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 5: responsibility for that. Things changed after that. Joe became more difficult, 421 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 5: and I knew that. I could see his attitude. He 422 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 5: was empowered. But you know what, he had every right 423 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 5: to go through that again. Had I treated him differently, 424 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 5: we wouldn't be here and be experiencing what he had 425 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 5: to experience. See, they have a saying payback is you 426 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 5: know what? And I was getting mine and I had 427 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 5: to shut up and take it because I created this. 428 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 5: I had to reach out and I had to be 429 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 5: the one they let him know that I loved him 430 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 5: and show it, not just say it. Let them know, yeah, 431 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 5: I would. I would make further mistakes, but none of 432 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 5: them would include what had happened that day or days 433 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,959 Speaker 5: before that. That chapter, so to speak, ended then and 434 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 5: there was the horrible five six years. 435 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 4: After just tabbing, the boys stayed away from their dad, 436 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 4: abused like that, casts a law and dark shadow. 437 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 5: Paul spent time over there with my sister a lot. 438 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 5: He'd stay for nights in her garage because he had 439 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 5: two jobs, and he'd come home late. And he was 440 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 5: he had two jobs and he was in school in 441 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 5: high school. Uh, that's been That's Paul all the way, 442 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 5: hard worker. Joe, on the other hand, went to live 443 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 5: with friends with friends, he went with another family, Okay, 444 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 5: and it was it was a time when I missed them. 445 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 5: I knew I had to go through this. I had 446 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 5: to prove to them that I cared for them, I 447 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 5: loved them, that I knew that I had done a 448 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 5: lot of wrong. 449 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 4: But believe it or not, neither Joe nor Paul cut 450 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 4: off ties with Joe. 451 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 5: Joe came out to visit me a couple of times. 452 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 5: Paul was the first one to come home, but then 453 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 5: Joe decided he was going to come home as well. 454 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 5: And I was happy to have them both and it 455 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 5: was a different dynamic in the house altogether. I had 456 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 5: basically learned to just take a hands off approach. Let 457 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 5: them experience whatever it's supposed they're supposed to experience, don't 458 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 5: get on their cases about things have more levity in 459 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 5: the house, don't be threatening in any way, form or shape. 460 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 5: It was an interesting time. Joe tells me that he 461 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 5: was cocky and he could sense that I had changed, 462 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 5: and I was really trying, but he was going to 463 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 5: punish me. He wasn't going to, you know, put some 464 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 5: mental pain on me, and which he did, but again 465 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 5: I deserved it. 466 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 6: That was my That's what I had to go through. 467 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 4: As soon as he can. Paul joins the military just 468 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 4: to get out of there. Joe sticks around you, Stella 469 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 4: and starts falling into. 470 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 3: I never blamed my dad for what I did at all, 471 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 3: none of my crimes. I say, Dad, when you punch 472 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 3: me in the mouth, you did alter my imagination about 473 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 3: how effective violence could be. You did do that. But 474 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 3: I don't blame him for whatever I did. I just 475 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 3: never do feels weak. And something happened that day. I 476 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 3: started becoming terrible. This thing that was awakened in me. 477 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 3: It was brilliant in a way in that I changed 478 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 3: my story so dramatically. The arc of my story changed, 479 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 3: the propulsion of my story changed, and the direction changed 480 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 3: from this point of brokenness and pain and even fuzziness 481 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 3: because of the concussion what I was able to draw 482 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 3: up to make happen. And I tried to kill that 483 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 3: man that day. I failed, thank God, But that's what 484 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 3: I was trying. I was trying to turn myself in 485 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 3: a murderer that day. This was the thing that put 486 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 3: me on the path trying to murder my father and father. 487 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 2: You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the 488 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 2: Money and Run. The Burden is produced by Orbit Media. 489 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 2: Get the Money and Run is produced by Western Sound 490 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 2: and a Cast Studios. Next Day tuned for episode four, 491 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 2: Life and Crimes. 492 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Remember to hear all episodes all at 493 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: once and ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on 494 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. It's worth it. You'll find other gripping true 495 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: crime series there also ad free. If you want to 496 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: hear Ben talk about this episode, check out the teaser 497 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: it's in The Burden Feed