Speaker 1: Also media, someone through a portal to the podcast to
Speaker 1: mention I am ed Zitron and this is better Offlines
Speaker 1: coverage of the Consumer Electronic Show. It's goddamn Wednesday, and
Speaker 1: we're here at the goddamn Palazzo Hotel and beautiful Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: Nevada all week with an open bar, tacos and the
Speaker 1: comfy place to relax. Reporters covering the largest and I
Speaker 1: don't know, most offensive technology show in the world, i'd say,
Speaker 1: And we're here all week with two episodes today and
Speaker 1: we've got an all star cast bring you the best
Speaker 1: and well mostly the worst from the show floors at
Speaker 1: the Las Vegas Convention and Venetian Expost centers. And my
Speaker 1: first contestants are joining me on nice and damp from
Speaker 1: the show floor. That was actually in the notes before that. Chloe,
Speaker 1: I apologize. I've got just.
Speaker 2: Filled half a can of liquid death all over myself.
Speaker 1: In this I bought an entire can over this tape yesterday.
Speaker 3: It like exploded because it froze.
Speaker 1: Anyway, mister Longuso Junior and Junior Jesus Christ, I'm keeping going.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me. Take Bubble newsletter of course.
Speaker 1: Thank you thank you, happy to be here, and you've
Speaker 1: got a star of Is this thing on Chloe Radcliffe? Yes,
Speaker 1: comedian as well, that's right all this intro and Cole
Speaker 1: stand up comedian host of the Factually podcast Adam.
Speaker 4: Connove, Hello, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like you've all been on the convention
Speaker 1: flaws and based on the little I've heard, real bang
Speaker 1: of day, Chloe, you got some free stuff.
Speaker 2: The very first booth that I walked into was a
Speaker 2: dongle that basically makes you be able to air drop
Speaker 2: between Mac and PC things.
Speaker 5: Huh and I do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, super useful and it's like adorable. I truly was
Speaker 2: magneted over because I was like, the word dongle is
Speaker 2: really funny and I wonder if I can make some
Speaker 2: jokes out of that. And then I saw it and
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this actually kind of rocks, and uh,
Speaker 2: I have I feel like an asshole saying I have
Speaker 2: an assistant, but I have an assistant and she uses
Speaker 2: a PC laptop but a MAC phone, And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I think I would like to buy this for her
Speaker 2: as a gift. Yeah, And so I was asking about
Speaker 2: the price and they said they were like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: we'd love to send you some free product.
Speaker 1: Let me send them, let me take a photo of
Speaker 1: your badge whatever.
Speaker 2: And truly my eyes like popped out of my skull,
Speaker 2: went cash dollars rolling through my eyes, and I was like.
Speaker 1: I can get free things.
Speaker 3: The corner is on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so then I started trying to go over
Speaker 2: and like like show interest in things that I might want,
Speaker 2: and most of them did not involve for it.
Speaker 3: Just walking up to the eighty seven inch TV you want?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wow, that's so nice.
Speaker 3: I love that, just kicking, just looking eyes with them.
Speaker 1: I love this.
Speaker 2: Give it to me, my my badge, says digital content creator.
Speaker 2: That's what you want, right, you want me to create
Speaker 2: digital content about your four thousand dollars TV.
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: You like this? You pick?
Speaker 5: Give it to me.
Speaker 1: So aside people not giving you stuff for free, anything interesting.
Speaker 5: Uh, there was.
Speaker 2: Well, so I really got gummed down. I spent too
Speaker 2: much time on the accessories.
Speaker 1: They were great.
Speaker 2: There was one actually a booth that was had a
Speaker 2: super useful like travel uh a wireless charger that like
Speaker 2: flips out. It looks like a like a makeup compact actually,
Speaker 2: and there's a wireless charger for your phone, and a
Speaker 2: wireless charger for your AirPods and a little baby one
Speaker 2: for your Apple Watch.
Speaker 5: Right, And I.
Speaker 2: Don't use those three things, but my boyfriend does. And
Speaker 2: so I was, oh, fuck Christmas presents.
Speaker 3: This is awesome.
Speaker 2: Great, I'm just starting to make Christmas presents list on
Speaker 2: the CEES floor, which actually seems like the best possible.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that that is what it should be.
Speaker 4: You should walk around and go, oh, stocking stuffers, little
Speaker 4: googaws that will make Grammy happy. Yeah, like consumer Electronics expo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is for it is at a retail
Speaker 2: level for the consumers, me and my family. And but
Speaker 2: then at that same booth where I was, so I
Speaker 2: was like really owed by this, the little flip open
Speaker 2: k Wiler sharger.
Speaker 5: And then a guy.
Speaker 2: The guy was walking me around and he was showing
Speaker 2: me the other things that they have whatever whatever, other
Speaker 2: char power blocks and charging. And then another guy at
Speaker 2: that same booth came up and there's I have a
Speaker 2: photo of it, but it's probably not worth showing. They
Speaker 2: have a little set of power banks in the back
Speaker 2: that's like pastel colors. And I didn't look at that
Speaker 2: and go, oh power banks for girls. I didn't gotta
Speaker 2: say that thought never crossed my mind. I just thought,
Speaker 2: a power bank that's pink as I do, and light
Speaker 2: green whatever, very progressive, and it looks kind of like
Speaker 2: a makeup bottle, like it's like one color on like
Speaker 2: for two thirds of it, and then it kind of
Speaker 2: looks like it might have a clear glass top.
Speaker 3: It's not.
Speaker 2: It's just a power bank. But I again, this is
Speaker 2: not a thought that I had. But the second guy
Speaker 2: walks up and he goes, it looks like a foundation,
Speaker 2: clearly with the tone of like, you're a lady, you
Speaker 2: will like that.
Speaker 1: Now there's a guy who knows makeup. Yes, it looks
Speaker 1: like conquila.
Speaker 4: He worked for the product.
Speaker 1: He worked for the company.
Speaker 2: For the company, yeah, I And I went, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: it looks like a foundation, and he like doubled down
Speaker 2: on it and he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, so
Speaker 2: I think you'd like it.
Speaker 5: It looks like a foundation.
Speaker 2: And I went, oh, so these are for these are
Speaker 2: the power banks for girls, and he went yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're for girls.
Speaker 5: And I think the first guy.
Speaker 2: Who I was talking to you understood that I hated
Speaker 2: what was going on, like that I was having fun
Speaker 2: and sort of mocking the whole thing, but he couldn't
Speaker 2: step in and stop it, and the guy who I
Speaker 2: was mocking fully did not track what was going on.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that there's still like it's like nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: five and like, what if computer for woman? Yes, woman,
Speaker 1: they're using this thing now, the birds truly.
Speaker 2: I he kept doubling down and tripling down so hard
Speaker 2: on it that I eventually pointed, we're still standing in
Speaker 2: front of power banks for girls, and I pointed to
Speaker 2: one on the end that it was black, and I went,
Speaker 2: see this one, I go, what is that?
Speaker 4: No dog?
Speaker 5: I literally hit my forehead with them.
Speaker 2: But this one, I go, that makes me happy.
Speaker 5: The first guys like humiliated.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm sorry, but your coworker is really
Speaker 2: fucking annoying.
Speaker 4: That's so good.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: I love that they're still doing shit like that.
Speaker 5: It was crazy.
Speaker 4: I mean, it reminds me of when I purchased in
Speaker 4: twenty thirteen a twenty ten used Prius Prius the Prius
Speaker 4: dealership and the guy is driving around me and my
Speaker 4: girlfriend at the time, and she's in the back. I'm
Speaker 4: the one purchasing the car. But he turns to her
Speaker 4: and he goes. So Toyota actually pulled a thousand women
Speaker 4: on what they would like in the car and so
Speaker 4: there's a place to put your purse right here, like
Speaker 4: under the console. And she hated that so much she
Speaker 4: talked about that for ten years.
Speaker 6: Don't look at her and say.
Speaker 4: We've we asked your kind.
Speaker 1: We lost one thousand woman and that is it. We
Speaker 1: no more, no need to do. It's just I don't know,
Speaker 1: without without being too preach about It's like it's twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five at this point.
Speaker 3: It's like pink is for girls, blackest for boys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this will fit in your handbag, which you don't
Speaker 1: appear to have.
Speaker 5: All of this shit fits in my head. It's all
Speaker 5: very small.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like like were the go Ones smaller and
Speaker 1: thinner or they just colors they were it was just
Speaker 1: pink and purple.
Speaker 4: And see they gotta go. They gotta go further than
Speaker 4: that when they make it like super girly. Like I
Speaker 4: went to the Razor booth and they had this is
Speaker 4: an old product, but they had the headphones with the caddiers.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's I feel like that's not so bad because
Speaker 4: that's like, you know, if you're super if you're like
Speaker 4: a fucking egirl twitch streamer and you like you your
Speaker 4: whole you know, streamer room is hello, kitty shit right.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like I would say, I would say that headphones
Speaker 2: with caddiers is the third gender.
Speaker 4: Artistic.
Speaker 1: I would love these guys could be like.
Speaker 5: Hey, it's like my.
Speaker 3: Headphones are the exact ones.
Speaker 1: I looked, and I looked for hours and hours and hours,
Speaker 1: and I tried several of them, and I talked to
Speaker 1: multiple friends and then I found the perfect one and
Speaker 1: they weren't perfect, so I returned them and tried another
Speaker 1: one and then they were perfect.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the fourth gender.
Speaker 5: Just diagnosed.
Speaker 1: I'm fresh. I'm fresh to listeners, the listeners who have
Speaker 1: been trying to diagnose me for two years, Like finally,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm finally edified.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh god, So okay.
Speaker 7: I just want a vendor to look at me and
Speaker 7: be like, you know, plays a little wrap.
Speaker 1: You know, this goes in your sneakers, sneakers you into
Speaker 1: those oh god.
Speaker 7: Instead, when I roll up, they look me up and down,
Speaker 7: they see the press card, and then they immediately direct
Speaker 7: their press person over like uh, they're a bodyguard.
Speaker 1: And forced. Well if I asked, like two questions, but
Speaker 1: how does this work, They're like.
Speaker 7: Oh, yeah, he'll tell you, He'll tell you money.
Speaker 5: Here they did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so set again, it's twenty twenty five in
Speaker 1: this to like, whoa okay, one of you guys.
Speaker 7: My goal has basketball, Yeah, that I gotta find. I'm
Speaker 7: gonna find someone to riff with. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 7: my goal in this this convention. Not to find a
Speaker 7: product I like, but someone who someone who won't be
Speaker 7: a little scared.
Speaker 3: Yeah, will be too scared.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, actually will get nervous. Someone's just like I
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I've never I've meant
Speaker 1: tons of people like you. Yeah, but wait, what did
Speaker 1: you see today?
Speaker 3: What anything funny?
Speaker 4: I mean, it was nothing interesting. I circled back.
Speaker 5: To nothing, a really funny review.
Speaker 1: Of another good tech line for the show.
Speaker 5: Nothing that's really interesting.
Speaker 7: I circled back to a lot of the age tech
Speaker 7: and kind of AI health companion stuff because I was
Speaker 7: interested in seeing, Okay, maybe if I have a little
Speaker 7: bit more of a conversation with them and then get
Speaker 7: them to explain what the agent part means, or to
Speaker 7: explain that use cases I may find something interesting, but
Speaker 7: it was just more of the same.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 7: You know, there's one firm I circled back to, like
Speaker 7: I think their name is ali Q that is really
Speaker 7: really big on elderly companions, right, and trying to have
Speaker 7: something that your grandparents can talk to that may or
Speaker 7: may not cause like chatbot psychosis if they spend a
Speaker 7: lot of time talking.
Speaker 3: To be is it like a thing on the computer.
Speaker 7: It is just like a big old kind of looking
Speaker 7: like an ORB, like a big old like a big ORB,
Speaker 7: and some sensors around it and the pad that you
Speaker 7: get to talk to and type in.
Speaker 4: Grandma loves to commune with the or.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, like your old granny told me, was
Speaker 1: God your friends.
Speaker 4: In the computer?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm never alone now that I have my
Speaker 1: So you have to log in.
Speaker 6: To talk to someone.
Speaker 4: Essentially you're going to work.
Speaker 1: You got to sit at your desk and be like, hello,
Speaker 1: are you doing all? There's a person at the end
Speaker 1: of a chat. But it's a chatbot. That's so sad.
Speaker 1: And this chatbot is supposed to interface to the outer world,
Speaker 1: trained on old people speak like what.
Speaker 2: It says the YouTube the TV TV volume max.
Speaker 1: It has the same conversation.
Speaker 5: It is too cold in here.
Speaker 3: It's also I do.
Speaker 1: Agree that young people don't work enough.
Speaker 7: So instead of push notifications or you know, it basically
Speaker 7: has push and notifications that are like, let's start a conversation.
Speaker 7: So you'll be doing your thing and be like, hey,
Speaker 7: I want to talk to you. Technology to harass your bread.
Speaker 2: No literally, I know so many grandparents who would take
Speaker 2: that out back and.
Speaker 1: Hit it with us.
Speaker 4: Can you imagine all they want is not to be bothered.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just imagining.
Speaker 1: My My grandfather passed like twenty years ago, even like
Speaker 1: way before URMs, just imagining Ken. He was a sign
Speaker 1: pat in Dorset and born and trit catch Bob made England,
Speaker 1: and he would have just he would have beat the
Speaker 1: funk out of.
Speaker 3: This one minute.
Speaker 1: He would be like touching that, I'm not touching and
Speaker 1: beat it with a stick.
Speaker 3: He would have loved that.
Speaker 1: Actually they sent the machines to watch us. Oh, I
Speaker 1: don't even say. He'd just be like offended by an
Speaker 1: orb he has to talk to.
Speaker 3: So if we wanted to go down the pub.
Speaker 4: Did you guys see the booth for for tom Bought Incorporated.
Speaker 2: I saw it from afar and it looked so terrifying
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 4: Didn't like a little dog puppet and it's booth is
Speaker 4: like a living room and it's got framed photos of
Speaker 4: the dog puppet and a and like a what is
Speaker 4: a sampler sort of cross stitch thing that says a
Speaker 4: pet for people who can't have pets, okay, And then
Speaker 4: there's like a lady dressed up like a granny and
Speaker 4: she's holding the puppet. I didn't really see what it does.
Speaker 4: Presumably it's just like an AI dog. It's just it's
Speaker 4: just a sad guy just sort of.
Speaker 1: Sitting there was a natural fellow.
Speaker 4: There's like a fella sitting in there. He's like, a yeah,
Speaker 4: he looks like he's bummed out. He's just sort of
Speaker 4: sitting there like zone. It like dissociating, petting the dog
Speaker 4: and settied up and like it could be it could
Speaker 4: be useful, but it's also like it's such a bummer
Speaker 4: just to be like this is for it's very elderly
Speaker 4: people who've lost their ability.
Speaker 1: And I'm like fifty to fifty on those because I
Speaker 1: can kind of see like there's it's been proven that's helpful.
Speaker 1: I've heard good things but the time just like you're
Speaker 1: too you're too old or sick to take care of
Speaker 1: an animal.
Speaker 3: It's great, like seeing a whole booth of that. And
Speaker 3: then the guy they paid to.
Speaker 4: Just sit their old day. Yeah bad, Yeah, you look depressed.
Speaker 4: You feel bad for the demo. You're watching the demo
Speaker 4: and you're like, oh, it's too bad that this guy
Speaker 4: has to sit there and put that fake dog. He
Speaker 4: doesn't look happy about it, whereas when people are with
Speaker 4: a real dog they're so happy.
Speaker 1: That's such a good point. Surely he would want to
Speaker 1: be like, hell, yeah I have Oh I love my dad.
Speaker 3: This dog is okay.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, just to wait waiting here until the
Speaker 1: sun holds me in a week.
Speaker 4: I've seen the studies that you're talking about. They're also
Speaker 4: true of plants. Like when you give plants in like
Speaker 4: the nursing home, they give them plan they bring like
Speaker 4: kiddies in. Like it's not it's not a particularly unsolved problem. Look,
Speaker 4: we do need more technology for old people. I've always
Speaker 4: thought like the Wii was such a hit for old people,
Speaker 4: and then there's been no Wi since. I think that's
Speaker 4: a tragedy of technology that like there's countless senior homes
Speaker 4: that are still using their Wi from like two thousand
Speaker 4: and seven to play we golf, because there's never been
Speaker 4: anything like that.
Speaker 1: Is quite did we go out of business?
Speaker 3: Nintendo is still in business.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're still made up. They occasionally make a game
Speaker 4: like that. But though WI was like this moment where
Speaker 4: they developed a new way to control a video game
Speaker 4: and a game that was very simple and resembled games
Speaker 4: people already knew, and it was like this perfect thing
Speaker 4: that people had never played a video game, especially elderly
Speaker 4: people to like figure it out. And then it just
Speaker 4: sort of wasn't popular enough among the core gaming audience
Speaker 4: and they stopped making that type of game.
Speaker 1: It was also tough to develop for as well, and
Speaker 1: it was really expensive. The controllers were weird. You have
Speaker 1: to have like a weird bower above. You think it
Speaker 1: was just like a lovely idea that just would not scale.
Speaker 4: Ever, you think you think not. I think maybe it
Speaker 4: needed a different company to make. I think about this
Speaker 4: a lot.
Speaker 1: Kind of done it with the switch, with the control,
Speaker 1: with the controls, it's not the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're saying a company that's not motivated by
Speaker 2: the youth gaming sector. Yeah, company that like doesn't doesn't
Speaker 2: need to win the most billions of dollars, that like
Speaker 2: could operate at.
Speaker 4: A sea I guess literally a company that's like trying
Speaker 4: to get contracts with with senior homes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my favor.
Speaker 5: Schools.
Speaker 2: I feel like at this point kids want things that
Speaker 2: feel digital but don't absolutely melt their brain.
Speaker 1: The thing is, though, like the I think we're describing
Speaker 1: the problem of the modern state of capitalism where it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: a company doesn't need to grow forever. I'm never gonna
Speaker 1: fund that bullshit. Are you're gonna make consistent money?
Speaker 3: Fuck you?
Speaker 1: I will say I did find a weird one where
Speaker 1: it was just one of these one of nine hundred
Speaker 1: different companions. It was just these horrible little things wheeling around.
Speaker 3: Like Teddy Tubby's. But what was interesting was someone.
Speaker 1: Had a dog, like a leaving dog, and he was
Speaker 1: just going fucking batshit and I was like, this fucking rocks.
Speaker 1: And then someone went and picked up the dog. If
Speaker 1: they just had a booth, when I had a dog
Speaker 1: going nuts on these things booth where a dog gets
Speaker 1: to destroy a row, I would pay. I would pay
Speaker 1: to watch like a large like even like a small
Speaker 1: dog would be funny, but like a the one that
Speaker 1: can climb walls, like a giant dog just ripping up
Speaker 1: home how much would you Yeah, like a malamute just
Speaker 1: fucking up like any of these robots would be sick.
Speaker 2: I feel like we need So there's the Edinburgh Festival,
Speaker 2: which is in Edinburgh, Scotland, and it's a big performing
Speaker 2: arts festival. And then there is the Edinburgh Fringe Festival,
Speaker 2: which grew up as a like people who were rejected
Speaker 2: from the core Edinburgh Festival and now the Fringe has
Speaker 2: become bigger and it's it's the biggest performing arts festival
Speaker 2: in the world and it's the third biggest ticketed event
Speaker 2: after the Olympics and the World Cup, and it's crazy whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I feel like we need a CEES fringe that can
Speaker 2: grow where we can have booths like a dog attacks
Speaker 2: a robot.
Speaker 4: That's actually a really good idea. Is there like a
Speaker 4: counter programming like punk art festival that happens at the
Speaker 4: same time as CEES that's.
Speaker 1: Like freaks, you know, that's what we're doing. We're going
Speaker 1: to stop better offline fester. It's like bring your ship
Speaker 1: for the dogs. We've hired to destroy and we will
Speaker 1: look but we want we're pro lab, so we will
Speaker 1: pay guys to sit around looking depressed on everything.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: A guy staring at into the distance with gimme shelter playing.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a guy who works for one of
Speaker 2: the companies that have a booth at the real sea, Yes,
Speaker 2: who then sits and looks sad as we watch as
Speaker 2: he watches his stuff get destroyed.
Speaker 1: I saw another robot that was just this. It was
Speaker 1: on the conveyor belts and it had big arms and
Speaker 1: it was like home. It was like home patrol, elderly care,
Speaker 1: laundry folding. And I just walked up like can I
Speaker 1: see any of this? And they went no.
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, but does it do it? It will?
Speaker 3: I just stared right, but what does it do?
Speaker 1: Now? Well it's there. I'm like, yeah, I got that part.
Speaker 1: And just it has happened a lot. I mean, you
Speaker 1: were talking about brisket, this fucking AI agent cooking thing, yes,
Speaker 1: and it's just like you look at it and you're like,
Speaker 1: AI Agent, Oh it can order food. Well, doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like it can. No, they haven't figured that part out yet,
Speaker 1: and what is the AI agent part.
Speaker 7: Well, that wasn't clear either because it wasn't working. Oh okay,
Speaker 7: it it seems like there's just a chat bot that
Speaker 7: has a there's a camera inside so it can like
Speaker 7: take pictures of.
Speaker 1: Your food and be like, oh, you like to eat this,
Speaker 1: I've seen that. Yeah, no, there are so many one
Speaker 1: of them food.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, you know you into this, yeah, you like.
Speaker 7: And it was fun because at first it was pitched
Speaker 7: just like, oh, this will like prepare the food and
Speaker 7: cook it for you, and then as you ask questions,
Speaker 7: it's like, oh no, it's like you have to you
Speaker 7: still you do everything? You still doing nothing. It was
Speaker 7: just it was a pellet smoke.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's pretty much it, you know. But they're spinning
Speaker 7: it as because they have other products, and that's when
Speaker 7: they're like, oh, we have a grill that's also an
Speaker 7: AI yeah, yeah agent grill, and we have you know,
Speaker 7: any sort. We have a microwave that we're worked on.
Speaker 7: So all of it is basically like we just have
Speaker 7: a sensor inside that gets dated on what you like
Speaker 7: to eat, and then we'll order some of the components
Speaker 7: and then we will figure out a way to charge
Speaker 7: you extra for that delivery Sertax and it's just a
Speaker 7: chat GPT wrapper yes, yeah.
Speaker 4: Blue Apron plus an AI, which which we kind of
Speaker 4: already have.
Speaker 3: We have Tavala.
Speaker 1: We have like nineteen different Instagram services that the Instagram
Speaker 1: ats that talk at me a week and probably five
Speaker 1: times more.
Speaker 7: Yeah, because it also has a giant fucking screen on it.
Speaker 1: Grilling is like you can just go and buy a
Speaker 1: ship toss like what like a poke shoulder and just
Speaker 1: throw it in with some seasoning.
Speaker 3: And it's like, you don't need the computer to tell you.
Speaker 1: I don't need the computer.
Speaker 3: I don't Who are these.
Speaker 1: People who are like every day is just confusing to them?
Speaker 1: I'm just fucking what do I eat? What do I do?
Speaker 1: Throw the food in there? Oh god, I don't remember
Speaker 1: the things I like to eat. I don't have tastes.
Speaker 4: These companies have not thought about, like even before, they're
Speaker 4: all trying to solve the food problem, like the meal
Speaker 4: delivery kit companies, and none of it sticks. People do
Speaker 4: meal delivery kits for like a couple of months and
Speaker 4: they stop. Is because eating is a solved problem. There's
Speaker 4: like there's three kinds of people there's people who buy
Speaker 4: frozen shit and heat it up or they boil hot dogs.
Speaker 4: There's people who only eat takeout, and there's people who
Speaker 4: enjoy cooking. Those are the and all of them already
Speaker 4: have something. So people who hate cooking aren't gonna like
Speaker 4: cooking because of the expensive shit that you sold them
Speaker 4: to try to trick them into what cook for them,
Speaker 4: sort of cooks for them or does it badly, or
Speaker 4: send them shit in the mail. They don't fucking want
Speaker 4: to cook at all, and they want to eat McDonald's
Speaker 4: or they want to heat up a factor meal in
Speaker 4: the microwave.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the thing is, I don't judge anyone who does
Speaker 1: the meal kit stuff. I did it fine, especially when
Speaker 1: you're trying to lose ways, it's fine, but it's also
Speaker 1: like like it's steal a lot, like a decent amount
Speaker 1: of efforts you have to select and it's like you
Speaker 1: kind of like you heat them.
Speaker 3: I did it for a while.
Speaker 4: Did you enjoy throwing out five hundred small plastic bags?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And also like if you fall behind on them
Speaker 1: or travel or just have a stack of the fuckers,
Speaker 1: and that's when you cancel the moment you have a
Speaker 1: stack and I've still got some of them somehow. And
Speaker 1: it's just I read the documentation for the Briskit that
Speaker 1: I don't fucking care the brisk it, the brisk kit.
Speaker 1: If it's called like the brisk It, I'd kind of laugh,
Speaker 1: but like it's just like but I read it, and
Speaker 1: it was like the little fake demo they had on
Speaker 1: the leaflet that was like, what I want to eat this.
Speaker 1: I want to limit myself to eighteen hundred calories and
Speaker 1: I want to leave these foods out. It's just like,
Speaker 1: all right, no one exists in this manner. Yeah, no
Speaker 1: one is doing this, No one's going to use it
Speaker 1: in this way. No one who is buying a I
Speaker 1: assume thousand plus dollar grill is going to be like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: a chatbot to finally tell me, if you're discerning enough
Speaker 1: to like pick a grill that costs that much money,
Speaker 1: you probably put more thought into cooking than just I
Speaker 1: want to spend a thousand dollars for a cooker. That
Speaker 1: would just too much to do. When you ask them
Speaker 1: where the labor saving thing is, because they insist this
Speaker 1: will save you time inconvenience, They describe a process that
Speaker 1: is like longer than getting the food itself to end
Speaker 1: cooking or meal planning your on your own. You know.
Speaker 7: It's like you, I'm spending what half an hour you know,
Speaker 7: getting this thing ready as through.
Speaker 1: It, training it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and then it'll it'll kind of recommend things for
Speaker 7: me that I still got to.
Speaker 1: Go out by design andre you know.
Speaker 7: So it's like what's actual, what's actually which seems to
Speaker 7: be a trend's actual point?
Speaker 2: Like an in an earlier block we were talking or
Speaker 2: an earlier episode, we were talking about, uh, the chatbot
Speaker 2: that manages I think you were talking about this, the
Speaker 2: chatbot that manages.
Speaker 1: Your home.
Speaker 2: The chatbot that's like you don't want to pick up
Speaker 2: your kids from groceries or from daycare whatever. But it's
Speaker 2: like you still yeah, yeah, yeah, and it like looks
Speaker 2: at your Google calendar for you and whatever, except you
Speaker 2: still have to look at your screen to read what
Speaker 2: the chatbot is telling you. So you could also just
Speaker 2: look at your screen to look at your Google calendar. Ye,
Speaker 2: Like it's not fundamentally and and look, maybe the designers
Speaker 2: of that chat agent would be like, no, no, this
Speaker 2: combines the six apps that you have to have open.
Speaker 2: Except the reason that six apps are open is because
Speaker 2: I have to make a decision about concretely what happens
Speaker 2: in my life do I go to this place or
Speaker 2: this place first? And the chat pot can't fundamentally can't
Speaker 2: make that decision for me. It doesn't have enough information.
Speaker 2: It can't. All of the information is in my brain.
Speaker 7: That's why you have to offload it into those Yeah,
Speaker 7: and then then it can hallucinate.
Speaker 4: Yes, I've been trying to write jokes about AI for
Speaker 4: a while, but you know, Chloe has a comic when
Speaker 4: someone has written a joke that's so good that you
Speaker 4: can't write anything better, and it's like taking over your brain.
Speaker 4: Very funny comic named Hayden Johnson who wrote a tweet
Speaker 4: that was like, uh, every every AI ad is a
Speaker 4: guy saying what should I eat? And the AI says sandwich?
Speaker 1: And the guy is like, wow, it really is a sandwich.
Speaker 6: I never thought whoa?
Speaker 1: And that's actually I think genuinely a Gemini ad. It's like,
Speaker 1: what am I going to eat? It's like if you
Speaker 1: tried this ham Sam, It's like, if you act like that,
Speaker 1: go to a doctor.
Speaker 7: Yeah, because Gemini adds where it's like, hey, you know
Speaker 7: you're in this book club you signed up for some
Speaker 7: reason and you didn't do the reading. What if you
Speaker 7: faked it and told all your friends that you did
Speaker 7: use us? But if you joined a book club where
Speaker 7: you didn't read, Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's just like you know, or like what if you
Speaker 1: lie to your friends?
Speaker 7: So yeah, yeah, right, we can help with that.
Speaker 1: It's very it's peculiar as well, because again, grilling, the
Speaker 1: whole thing is just throw some burgers on there and
Speaker 1: you there, we are assumed with friends or like you're
Speaker 1: throwing a big brisket and it takes eighteen hours and
Speaker 1: you kind of look at it. It's very analog. Like
Speaker 1: I have two giant smokers and they are mostly like
Speaker 1: the best one I have is a big stainless steel
Speaker 1: beast that's basically a temperature measurer, a hopper for pellets
Speaker 1: and then an auger to send him and sent them
Speaker 1: on fire. It's not a computer. Adding computer to that
Speaker 1: really wouldn't change much like I.
Speaker 5: Wouldn't Jane Roger.
Speaker 2: But I think the confusing thing to me, I want
Speaker 2: masculinity to be tied to analog. Miss again, right and
Speaker 2: right now, I think masculinity is tied to computer and
Speaker 2: so it is interesting. I think in a lot. I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of like, Dad, you like this
Speaker 2: grill because it has a computer in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like no, no, no, no, no, no no, Dad,
Speaker 2: like plain grill.
Speaker 5: Dad, Like this may.
Speaker 4: Changing because that's that's Dad. But you know, there's like
Speaker 4: the performative male archetype like TikTok thing, and that's all
Speaker 4: wired headphones, reading, reading, belle hooks and paper form totally.
Speaker 5: But I don't think I think that.
Speaker 4: That is that's complicated because it's a stereotype created by
Speaker 4: women about men. I was also gonna say not masculine.
Speaker 2: So it's never mind, Adam, with greatest respect, I think
Speaker 2: that your feed over represents how many performative men are
Speaker 2: in the world.
Speaker 4: So I think the whole performative male thing is is
Speaker 4: nonsense bullshit as a meme.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 4: I think it's really destructive and doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think masculine you should be tired to personal
Speaker 1: responsibility and love for your friends and loved ones. Blest
Speaker 1: person that is not computer, No, and it's not the
Speaker 1: computer is no. I think the computer is innocent. The
Speaker 1: people who the computer must be stopped. And this show
Speaker 1: really is like I think I saw no less than
Speaker 1: seventeen different companies that were like, yeah, we generate images,
Speaker 1: you're a rapper. You're a rapper for a chat GPT. Oh,
Speaker 1: we generate images and texts, so you use chat GPT
Speaker 1: or claude. Yeah, we connect to your disparate documents and
Speaker 1: we're allowed to summarize them. So chat GPT. And there
Speaker 1: were so many of them. There were Hallway. I went
Speaker 1: to Eureka Park because you can guess which is the
Speaker 1: very sad small box area, mostly looking for funny names.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie I it was mostly just looking
Speaker 1: for names that make me laugh. And it was just
Speaker 1: so bizarre because what happens when all of this starts
Speaker 1: getting more expensive, because it's all unprofitable, Just these companies
Speaker 1: evaporate overnight.
Speaker 3: And I will say, we're coming towards the end of
Speaker 3: this block.
Speaker 1: Whenevertheless, I will say Eureka Park felt and even the Expo,
Speaker 1: the Venetian one felt smaller to me like previous years.
Speaker 1: It felt a little more robust, and there was a
Speaker 1: lot more like they would the countries, like the careers
Speaker 1: like Le France and all that cut center. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the I've got center of it was never above ground.
Speaker 1: You put them in the in the basement where the
Speaker 1: other countries apparently belonged with like the Social Security Administration
Speaker 1: and the various scams. They were up top. They were
Speaker 1: tops out security as a scam. No no, no, But
Speaker 1: like I had a comma in that one. I promised,
Speaker 1: but it was just thank you, Chloe. But it feels
Speaker 1: like most of the show is just LM rappers now
Speaker 1: and like we can laugh at that and goddamn will
Speaker 1: We've got an hour and a half to cover. But
Speaker 1: it's very worrying because before it was like, oh, there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of Kickstarter shit, Indie Gogo shit. At least
Speaker 1: there was money involved in products. This is like predominantly
Speaker 1: companies that are using an API, and that's like, oh,
Speaker 1: first of all, no differentiation, easily cloned by open ai,
Speaker 1: but also just where's the fucking business, buddy, where is it?
Speaker 5: Where's the product?
Speaker 1: Oh that, don't worry it, There isn't one. It's just
Speaker 1: other than the ones which are like, yeah, we have
Speaker 1: a photonic sensor to put on the top of a
Speaker 1: specific device. I fucking like all of those the industrial
Speaker 1: ones where It's like, for a specific use case that
Speaker 1: they to meet one of eleven people and they meet
Speaker 1: all of them.
Speaker 3: Those are cool, the rest not so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the the what I wind up wondering
Speaker 2: as a pure lay person is is the fact. So sorry,
Speaker 2: let me let me sort of give you what I'm hearing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it sounds like, and I agree with this from my
Speaker 2: experience on the floor, it sounds like some very high
Speaker 2: preponderance of the offerings at CES this year are functionally
Speaker 2: wrappers around an already developed AI tool.
Speaker 1: Yes, right, there are some interface with chatchip. Right.
Speaker 2: Whether whatever that interface may be an orbit, a pillow,
Speaker 2: an app, or whatever it is, it is the technology
Speaker 2: at the core of it is something that somebody else
Speaker 2: has already made that we are all aware of.
Speaker 1: Yes, So in that.
Speaker 2: Case, if that preponderance is higher this year, is that
Speaker 2: because uh, there are like fewer problems to solve elsewhere,
Speaker 2: fewer like consumer problems to solve elsewhere that we've like
Speaker 2: actually advanced so far in technology that without without these
Speaker 2: rappers for these lms, they would be CS would be
Speaker 2: way smaller. Or is it that everybody has gotten so
Speaker 2: distracted by lms that everybody's gone, well, we can create
Speaker 2: a new interface for this, a new kind of rapper
Speaker 2: for it, and that they've actually like directed their creative
Speaker 2: energies away from solving a lot of other consumer.
Speaker 3: It's all of the above.
Speaker 1: It's andals are approaching the end of the half and hour,
Speaker 1: but I'll wrap this on this. What is is that
Speaker 1: It's that venture capital is pretty much only like fifty
Speaker 1: percent of venge capital went into AI this like last year.
Speaker 1: It's god, there's twenty twenty six now. It's also CS
Speaker 1: usually just is magnetized to whatever trend that was met
Speaker 1: with us. There's two years ago we had an AI
Speaker 1: semen thing, not on that this yeah, no, come, no coming.
Speaker 2: I've never met intelligent semen.
Speaker 3: Apparently there were a few years ago.
Speaker 5: Organically or artificially.
Speaker 2: Okay, men are back, kill all men, kill men, more
Speaker 2: woman on podcasts.
Speaker 3: Honestly, femail. This is gonna eat this up.
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna rotate. Though we're gonna rotate. Here
Speaker 1: comes an ad that specifically only for woman. It's pink,
Speaker 1: and we're back in the room. Now. We've of course
Speaker 1: got the wonderful Garrison Davis. If it could happen here, Hello,
Speaker 1: and we're back with Chloe Radcliffe, actress of course in
Speaker 1: the movie Is This Thing? On? Stand up comedian, comedian
Speaker 1: and host of the Factually podcast Adam Connover.
Speaker 3: Hello, and we were just talking about l M rappers
Speaker 3: and why.
Speaker 1: Everything is LLLLM this year and AI this year more
Speaker 1: so even than last year, and why there are so
Speaker 1: many things that are just effectively wrapping around the chat
Speaker 1: gpt API and what it is is, Yes, yes, magnetizes
Speaker 1: the trends like it's just it goes wherever the trends are.
Speaker 1: We've had a metaverse and VR and AR and ind
Speaker 1: like twenty fifteen is very indieg go heavy crowdfunding and such.
Speaker 1: But I think it's also the funding thing of where
Speaker 1: venture capital is going. But also it's just fucking easier
Speaker 1: to build a company on top of it. Now people
Speaker 1: will frame this as, oh, it's democratizing building companies. No,
Speaker 1: it's democratizing lazy, fucking assholes building nothing.
Speaker 5: And take that suckers.
Speaker 1: No, it really, it really is, though the sucker is
Speaker 1: being venture capitalists and customers as well, because it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I built a company. No you fucking didn't. You built
Speaker 1: something on top of someone else's company, and you're claiming
Speaker 1: it's yours. By the way those API rates are going
Speaker 1: the way, they're too cheap, they don't make sense. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of sad because usually you go to CS,
Speaker 1: i'd say forty percent of the stuff will be dead
Speaker 1: in a year. This one is like, if things go
Speaker 1: the way, I'm expecting all of it, like like maybe
Speaker 1: seventy five percent of it to be fair. But like
Speaker 1: every LLM powered thing you're saying about dog.
Speaker 3: Especially the robot dog, because that has.
Speaker 5: Oh, don't kill my robot dog.
Speaker 1: Not how many times we just talk about killing dogs
Speaker 1: on the show.
Speaker 4: Every time that Chloe's on, I actually multiple times I
Speaker 4: have a whole nother product I want to talk about.
Speaker 3: Oh, oh god it is.
Speaker 1: It is about Lane perfectly landed.
Speaker 4: So I wandered into a uh it was like a
Speaker 4: consortium of Internet of Things home products or whatever. And
Speaker 4: the guy recognizes me. He's like, oh, Adam, I like
Speaker 4: your show.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 4: I'm like, what do you got in here? He's like, oh,
Speaker 4: I represented all these different companies. He actually said one
Speaker 4: of the you know when someone like accidentally said something
Speaker 4: that sounds really useful here and he's like this thing
Speaker 4: over here, will detective you left your stove on and
Speaker 4: turn your stove off automatically. I was like, wow, that
Speaker 4: that's great. Who did Why didn't we emit that fifty
Speaker 4: years ago? That seems very obvious as a product. Then
Speaker 4: he's like, over here, we got the smart dog crate.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's like a big like okay, first of all,
Speaker 4: imagine if your dog crate was like a like a
Speaker 4: twitch streamers room.
Speaker 1: We talked about this briefly, but I don't want to know.
Speaker 5: I think this is a different smart dog.
Speaker 1: This doesn't measure the heights of your dog. Uh, that
Speaker 1: was the one, you know.
Speaker 5: I think it's different because the one that I was
Speaker 5: looking at.
Speaker 2: So so, just to catch you up the short this
Speaker 2: is one sentence overview. There's a little crate that measures
Speaker 2: your dog's breathing rate, your heart rate, and the height
Speaker 2: distance between the top of the crate and the top
Speaker 2: of the dog.
Speaker 5: And I said, why do we need that?
Speaker 2: And the guy said, because if it if the number
Speaker 2: doesn't change for a while, maybe the dog has died.
Speaker 5: And I said, but but wouldn't you.
Speaker 2: Know that from the other numbers by looking?
Speaker 4: Oh god, the idea of the distance from the ceiling
Speaker 4: to the dog has not changed in three days.
Speaker 1: Something is wrong, it's different.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I said.
Speaker 2: I told my my boyfriend Stewart last night about about
Speaker 2: the dog grate that I saw, and he was like, well,
Speaker 2: you want to avoid the terrifying case of your dog shrinking.
Speaker 5: Or worse, getting bigger.
Speaker 1: It's like, my dog is not in a perpetual state.
Speaker 1: It's like my dog varies sometimes. Yeah, so adam one
Speaker 1: a different one, tweet stream a different one.
Speaker 4: Yes. It had, among other things, had an iPad in
Speaker 4: the dog create so you could show your dog videos,
Speaker 4: video chat with your dog. It had like a privacy
Speaker 4: screen that would open and close, like glass that you
Speaker 4: could remotely open and close, and then.
Speaker 2: Your dog try on new outfits.
Speaker 3: Your dog wants to pretend it's in a limo.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, yep, or like if you were, you know,
Speaker 4: had your dog in some sort of like prison visitation situation.
Speaker 4: It was like, if you.
Speaker 1: Don't want strangers to see your dog's.
Speaker 4: Dick, this is the thing I vaguely knew already.
Speaker 3: Existed, but.
Speaker 5: I want my dog to be modest.
Speaker 4: They said, it was, you know, he was like some
Speaker 4: people put a blanket over the crate, but now you
Speaker 4: don't have to do that. And again it's one of
Speaker 4: those things where it's like, yeah, what was the problem
Speaker 4: with the blanket over the.
Speaker 2: Carry and also the blanket of the crate is to
Speaker 2: make the dog think, is to make the dog go
Speaker 2: to sleep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's to say it's nighttime now, not uh Yeah.
Speaker 4: They called it privacy screen, and it was cool, like
Speaker 4: I was aware this already existed, like a pane of
Speaker 4: glass that if you like run a current through it,
Speaker 4: it suddenly turns opaque or something. And that was cool
Speaker 4: to see go even though I knew it already existed.
Speaker 4: But then a big part of it was like, if
Speaker 4: you are at home and your smoke alarms go off
Speaker 4: and your house is on fire, you can open the
Speaker 4: door of the crate automatically so the dog can run
Speaker 4: away from the fire, or if you're on your way
Speaker 4: home when you want to let the dog out a
Speaker 4: little early. And the thing in my mind is, I'm like,
Speaker 4: who's who's crating their dog?
Speaker 8: This?
Speaker 4: Much like use when your dog's a puppy.
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, you're trading a dog to stain in the
Speaker 1: crate and be happy in it. And the whole point
Speaker 1: is that it can't leave, like you kind of like
Speaker 1: train it to like the crate, Like, why would you
Speaker 1: let it I guess if you let it out early out.
Speaker 2: The whole point of a dog is that it knows routine,
Speaker 2: as everybody knows the point of a dog, the.
Speaker 5: Points of a dog.
Speaker 2: The point of a dog is maximal efficiency is optimize
Speaker 2: your dog dog. But if you let the dog out,
Speaker 2: if you open the dog crate early, and the dog
Speaker 2: has no way of predicting when you're going to open the.
Speaker 1: Crate remotely and you will not there and you're not.
Speaker 2: There, Like I feel like if you have a dog
Speaker 2: created while you're gone, because I.
Speaker 1: Do know people who are, like, there are tons of
Speaker 1: people who do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and do you know it's whatever, whatever judgment decide
Speaker 2: about whether you should have your dog in the crate
Speaker 2: that much or not. Totally setting that aside, just dealing
Speaker 2: with the reality of there are people who do. If
Speaker 2: you drive home and the dog hears the garage door opening,
Speaker 2: or the dog here's the front door opening or whatever,
Speaker 2: then the dog gets to be excited because the crate
Speaker 2: is about to open. But if you're just randomly opening it,
Speaker 2: it's like, do you know those Do you know that
Speaker 2: experiment with rats where they like shocked them where they
Speaker 2: played they.
Speaker 1: Played that's azz that's was that the one where they
Speaker 1: shocked the dog.
Speaker 2: I think I know they had one with skins that
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of where it was where they like play
Speaker 2: a beep and then shock the rat. And those rats
Speaker 2: survived like two or three times longer than where they
Speaker 2: where they just randomly shocked without the beep, because the
Speaker 2: rats who didn't have the beep were so anxious the
Speaker 2: entire time, were so stressed because they didn't know when
Speaker 2: the shock was coming, Whereas when they knew it's it's
Speaker 2: right after the beep, they could prepare for it for
Speaker 2: the second between the beep and the shock. And I
Speaker 2: feel like that's what you're doing to your dog if
Speaker 2: the dog's just.
Speaker 1: Like this door could open at any moment. Could a
Speaker 1: person fit in this thing?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 1: Well no, we're talked about the things. You got an
Speaker 1: iPad on the it was like a weird streamer. I've
Speaker 1: got a few furry listens. Yeah, I definitely know. No,
Speaker 1: That's why I'm like the if the yiff maxes, yes,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be one person new emails saying they love that,
Speaker 1: and another that threatens to kill me.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be great.
Speaker 4: It was kind of charming, It wasn't that to your point,
Speaker 4: cluy I think if you were a dog and you're
Speaker 4: like in the crate all day and then suddenly the
Speaker 4: door just like silently swings open, yeah, I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 4: humanity is gone. They've died, and I've been released from
Speaker 4: my I'm in like a twenty eight days later situation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like it's the beginning of.
Speaker 5: The movie and have to eat my owner.
Speaker 3: You just come back with dog fucking kills.
Speaker 4: It's too ominous, all right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, what have you seen today?
Speaker 5: Today?
Speaker 8: I've been to once again, more Panels. I went home
Speaker 8: the Panasonic booth ones. Actually I would I would prefer
Speaker 8: to go over your favorite part of Cees what you mean,
Speaker 8: which is showstoppers.
Speaker 3: Yes, showstoppers who have made war with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I work at a PR firm, They've decided
Speaker 1: I cannot go very unfair, very nasty. So if you
Speaker 1: ever go to showstoppers, my my request is you eat
Speaker 1: a lot of horrible food. I want you to op
Speaker 1: a deck every toilet in that place, and we turn
Speaker 1: this into the most icly cantina.
Speaker 5: I got it.
Speaker 4: I like when that accident comes out, what is that
Speaker 4: specifically with the cos.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like it's west, it's West London. It's
Speaker 1: West West London. Yeah, it goes between my pulshvaxcent in
Speaker 1: the West London.
Speaker 4: And it's all in the consonants like they're tight.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's there. There's something wrong with me.
Speaker 1: Tell me about the about host Stoppers.
Speaker 8: It was the worst Showstoppers I've been to in a
Speaker 8: few years, which I'm honestly I'm saddened to say, Like
Speaker 8: I usually kind of look forward to Showstoppers.
Speaker 1: And could I request on one to two sentence overview of.
Speaker 3: What shost Stoppers is.
Speaker 8: Showstoppers is a media event for journalists where a bunch
Speaker 8: of products, usually from like Eureka Park, usually like the Ces,
Speaker 8: like innovation type products have boots in a ballroom in
Speaker 8: the Blagio and there's food and drinks and in journalist
Speaker 8: we'll walk through and you can talk to you know,
Speaker 8: people from these companies. It's it's it's like another condensed
Speaker 8: version of like the Show, all in like one room
Speaker 8: and it's like every Tuesday night and ces and is.
Speaker 2: There uh uh who gets to be there?
Speaker 1: Not that?
Speaker 5: No, no, no, not who gets to look.
Speaker 1: You have to pay?
Speaker 3: Who gets to show like exhibitors?
Speaker 1: Who gets to stop the show?
Speaker 2: But I guess what I'm saying is like, can you
Speaker 2: just pay enough and be one of those exhibitors? Like
Speaker 2: it just it's it's not like nobody's picked its, like
Speaker 2: we think these are actually the best.
Speaker 1: Degree of that, and that's something that's outright fraudulent. They
Speaker 1: would probably say no to, but probably not.
Speaker 8: Yeah, because there's there's not much space and so they
Speaker 8: kind of defer to to people who want like to
Speaker 8: see Yes, Innovation Awards every year.
Speaker 1: So you got there was like a few of those boots.
Speaker 1: But what was almost made about it? What was not?
Speaker 5: What it was?
Speaker 8: They changed venues, It was in a much smaller ballroom
Speaker 8: than the Terrible in the past few years. Yeah, and
Speaker 8: I would say about forty to percent of the show
Speaker 8: floor was once again your favorite product, smart glasses. So
Speaker 8: many smart glasses boots. Interesting, there was like three three
Speaker 8: like regular smart glasses, all all the back ended via
Speaker 8: lms like the auto translation glasses.
Speaker 3: I tried on.
Speaker 8: One was a sound translation where they like have speakers
Speaker 8: in the arm that they were running that translation through
Speaker 8: Microsoft's AI. They had another like a backup translation that
Speaker 8: you could run through chat GPT's I did a.
Speaker 1: That's funny because Microsoft is powered by GPT. This is
Speaker 1: I'm noting with the guys. I'm saying you're wrong. I'm
Speaker 1: just like, that's just like classic ces brain. It's just
Speaker 1: like what it runs through chat GPT or chat GPT
Speaker 1: with the.
Speaker 8: Other the other ones which were like the visual visual
Speaker 8: translations as well as like navigation, like they hook up
Speaker 8: to Google Maps so they can do do that sort
Speaker 8: of thing if you're like biking. But the big ones
Speaker 8: were the ro Kid glasses, the crowd funded AI smart glasses.
Speaker 8: They worked better than the sound ones. The sound only
Speaker 8: ones worked but with a pretty significant delay, so long
Speaker 8: a ten seconds jesus, so you can't have a conversation
Speaker 8: with them. They were prettier. They were they look like
Speaker 8: normal glasses. The wealthy glasses are a little bit more
Speaker 8: obvious that they're smart glasses. But the translations faster. It's
Speaker 8: obviously it's hard to have eye contact with someone in
Speaker 8: a conversation when you're text You have like the kind
Speaker 8: of like blurry like hologram text. But as long as
Speaker 8: you can focus your always multitask, it's like okay that
Speaker 8: that one runs through TRAT GPT. I there's a two
Speaker 8: different like in ear like earbuds which listen to and
Speaker 8: transcribe conversation also run through TRAT GPT. The worst part
Speaker 8: about those though that they were they worked really well
Speaker 8: and you could like whisper. Then that that was the
Speaker 8: main fixed that was that was the main feature. It
Speaker 8: was like auto auto dictation if you like whispers even
Speaker 8: like a loud showroom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's so.
Speaker 8: Even even in like a loud showroom, the person who
Speaker 8: had it on could like whisper something.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 8: I could not hear it standing like two feet away,
Speaker 8: but it was like it was perfectly transcribed and I
Speaker 8: could like actually like via like reading lips and it
Speaker 8: was good.
Speaker 2: But and is this sorry hold on, this is a
Speaker 2: translation through language and transcription.
Speaker 1: It does both and this is at.
Speaker 8: These were basically basically like like yeah, like like a
Speaker 8: AirPod style cool, But the dictation feature is a subscription model.
Speaker 1: You have debate to keep using it, and it's powered
Speaker 1: by GPT and all and.
Speaker 8: It's also powered by GPT, so there was a few
Speaker 8: things like that. Uh, there was smart like swim goggles.
Speaker 8: There was smart like ski goggles by goggles.
Speaker 3: Long questions just with the previous ones.
Speaker 1: Sorry, so you need a subscription, but do you need
Speaker 1: an internet connection as well? Oh I didn't ask that.
Speaker 1: That's because it must connect to your phone or something,
Speaker 1: which is just like because yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, because
Speaker 1: like ostensibly, if you're.
Speaker 8: The dictation needs the phone because you see the dictation
Speaker 8: like getting updated on your ves so bad, they're gonna
Speaker 8: it's it's gonna be sync to your mobile device, but.
Speaker 1: You'd want that anyway. That one's not so bad. But
Speaker 1: the translation ones, it's like, if you're in a foreign country,
Speaker 1: you can't necessarily.
Speaker 3: Rely like the situation.
Speaker 1: The situations you need translation will probably not be in
Speaker 1: a major metropolitan area because depending on the country, and
Speaker 1: if it's a country where is Maltinarian, it doesn't have
Speaker 1: this translation. The cell service might not be good, You're
Speaker 1: not might not.
Speaker 2: It's just also the idea of walking up to a
Speaker 2: person who doesn't speak English, who speaks like literally so
Speaker 2: much zero so zero of English that you can't yeah,
Speaker 2: you can't converse model through and being like hold on
Speaker 2: let me put in my thousand dollars machine into my head.
Speaker 1: That is going to make me be able to talk
Speaker 1: to I mean a lot of the glasses.
Speaker 8: At least it's for like putting on so you can
Speaker 8: hear people like around you, which isn't too bad. It's
Speaker 8: not necessarily even for conversation, but at least at least
Speaker 8: you can, like you can hear someone speaking.
Speaker 1: You catch the leaves drop so that these people who
Speaker 1: are specifically.
Speaker 2: Who have switched to a foreign language, specifically so that
Speaker 2: you won't understand what they're saying.
Speaker 1: This is what my did. No, it was really funny
Speaker 1: when I was a kid and my parents used to
Speaker 1: speak in French in front of my brother and I
Speaker 1: to try and avoid us hearing what we didn't tell
Speaker 1: them for fucking years.
Speaker 3: We could understand then, we could completely understand.
Speaker 5: What they're doing is teaching you frendship.
Speaker 3: No, I No.
Speaker 1: We were just listening to work out why that, Like
Speaker 1: we're like how long we were going to stay places,
Speaker 1: or if there was something we were going to do
Speaker 1: we didn't want to do. And then eventually I think
Speaker 1: one of us like laughed at something they said. It
Speaker 1: was like ship, God, damn it years of the scam.
Speaker 8: Okay, it's kind of useful if you are someone who
Speaker 8: only speaks English talking is talking to someone who's speaking
Speaker 8: another language but can like understand English but maybe maybe
Speaker 8: can't speak.
Speaker 1: It very right, I do.
Speaker 5: Actually that's a translation.
Speaker 1: That's like the main case.
Speaker 4: There's stuff like this has been normalized a little bit too,
Speaker 4: Like I've got to plenty of hotels where there's someone
Speaker 4: from mainland China trying to check into the hotel and
Speaker 4: they're using the translation thing. It's like and then they
Speaker 4: show the phone, yes, and like that'll get more refined,
Speaker 4: and I don't know, it seems to me like translation
Speaker 4: is one of the few things that like I was
Speaker 4: about to say, this really good for like it is
Speaker 4: an improvement.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, totally, and like it is. It is a
Speaker 2: positive use case. It is a like non harmful at
Speaker 2: least broadly non harmful use case. I've always imagining the
Speaker 2: setting though, like when you're in the you know, the
Speaker 2: rural Uzbek mountains and you're trying to communicate with it,
Speaker 2: Like I'm trying to watch the setting where you have
Speaker 2: no WiFi, but you're like trying to use these earbuds
Speaker 2: which just feels like a you know, a set piece
Speaker 2: in a movie.
Speaker 8: So like, although some of these things kind of like
Speaker 8: works to some degree, the audio one is a little
Speaker 8: bit slower. Like these are all stuff I've tried on
Speaker 8: at c yes before. Like I was gonna say, I
Speaker 8: feel like we had this conversation last year. We've had
Speaker 8: the exact exact conversation before. Like, these are not new
Speaker 8: and this was this was it like forty to fifty
Speaker 8: percent of the show floor at Showstoppers was just these
Speaker 8: was like this genre of product, right. The only new
Speaker 8: thing is that they put like these smart glasses technology
Speaker 8: and like ski goggles, like swim goggles, scuba goggles, so
Speaker 8: you can have like a you know, headsep view if
Speaker 8: you're wearing a scuba goggles.
Speaker 1: Like that's like a new ish. I guess I.
Speaker 5: Feel like, why do you want a headset view?
Speaker 8: You know, maybe maybe you need to play a app
Speaker 8: with gesture controls because.
Speaker 4: You saw the Terminator forty years ago and you're like,
Speaker 4: it would be cool to see text on my eyes.
Speaker 8: Look as pretty as it is to scuba dive. You
Speaker 8: could also be watching Instagram reels at the same time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like brain row as you're looking at beautiful tropical fish.
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: You're like, hey, do you like to swim laps because
Speaker 2: it's the one place that you cannot bring your phone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got the solution for you.
Speaker 4: The whole thing about the phone is that you can
Speaker 4: look away from it. Yeah. Like, to me, the main
Speaker 4: reason VR didn't catch up is because like when I
Speaker 4: would play a VR game, I would, you know, sometimes
Speaker 4: I would enjoy them, but after like twenty minutes, I'd
Speaker 4: be like, what if my house is on fire? What
Speaker 4: if somebody needs me? And then I take the thing off,
Speaker 4: and then it's such a big phase change you don't
Speaker 4: want to go back into it. And just the ability
Speaker 4: to glance away from stuff is so important, and I
Speaker 4: just feel like, I don't know, heads up display I
Speaker 4: don't want for that reason, and it fits the thing.
Speaker 4: I've really been struck by how many people I've been walking.
Speaker 4: If you look at the way people are using their
Speaker 4: phones at this thing, everybody is on their phones all
Speaker 4: the time. They're just they're in like hunched over phone position,
Speaker 4: you know, like like elbows on knees looking at the phone,
Speaker 4: And I'm like, I don't see any of these companies
Speaker 4: unseating Apple and Android, like it's we have the here,
Speaker 4: this is where the AI is happening.
Speaker 3: This is where all that you can leave.
Speaker 4: We've done it. I don't think even happening.
Speaker 8: Now you can do it, John, Like I was just
Speaker 8: in Japan and you can do translation on your phone.
Speaker 8: You can type, You could type the thing and you
Speaker 8: could show it to someone. They can type it back,
Speaker 8: and that's going to be faster and more efficient.
Speaker 1: I went to Japan in twenty seventeen and I literally
Speaker 1: just used Google Translate. Yeah, and I feel like it'd
Speaker 1: be way more offensive to this man who did not
Speaker 1: speak a lick of it. I went to rock and
Speaker 1: it was amazing and like it was way less offensive
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, I don't understand you. I'm going
Speaker 1: to use this and being very honest to be like
Speaker 1: one second beep beep, now speak.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1: You know inm Basil, who cannot converse with versus being
Speaker 1: like yeah, we're both from different countries, Like yeah, how magical. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there is a barrier, and technology has solved this barrier
Speaker 1: without removing the honesty of conversation versus I have paid
Speaker 1: someone five hundred dollars and twenty five bucks a month
Speaker 1: so that you and I can pretend we understand each
Speaker 1: other because we don't.
Speaker 2: And I do, I really do think that, like at
Speaker 2: the at the broadest levels, I do think that the
Speaker 2: translation use case makes them makes more sense than almost
Speaker 2: any other to me. And you know why it makes
Speaker 2: that sense because it's written in English. But Adam, what
Speaker 2: you were saying earlier, I couldn't miss it anyway. But
Speaker 2: the burden of being a comedian they have to take
Speaker 2: a little hanging free. But Adam, what you were saying
Speaker 2: earlier of just a second ago, about like we've already
Speaker 2: like the winners are here.
Speaker 5: The winners are the iPhone and android phones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of goes back to what I was asking
Speaker 2: in the earlier block about, which about why are the
Speaker 2: rappers so prevalent? And is it because ed I'm hearing
Speaker 2: you that that a huge part of it is that
Speaker 2: we're following the trend. But also like, is it that
Speaker 2: there is some degree of the biggest consumer tech gaps
Speaker 2: have been closed right now or like the biggest consumer
Speaker 2: gaps that we can imagine right now. I'm sure in
Speaker 2: ten years there will be they will be will be
Speaker 2: in a totally.
Speaker 4: I mean, the iPhone was like ninety percent of all
Speaker 4: technological advancement. That's yeah, that was possible when it was invented.
Speaker 1: That's what I mean.
Speaker 4: Like it sort of picked. It was all the low
Speaker 4: hanging fruit all at once. It's been refined over twenty years.
Speaker 1: And they planned for it. Like there was a famous
Speaker 1: Golmon Sachs analysts called Jim Cavelli who said, like the iPhone,
Speaker 1: they knew it was going to happen, like at decade beforehand.
Speaker 1: They just needed Bluetooth to be smaller, they needed GPS
Speaker 1: to be smaller on mode ends and such.
Speaker 4: And like Apple has made the same thing in a
Speaker 4: dozen other form factors and they're all less popular than
Speaker 4: the iPhone. They're just like less, the iPad less, the
Speaker 4: Apple Watch less. The iPhone is like the main thing.
Speaker 8: Well obviously the Vision Pro, which is the most successful
Speaker 8: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the popular product everyone loved. I think. I
Speaker 1: think there's another level of it as well, which is
Speaker 1: it's follow a culture, because it's when a big company goes,
Speaker 1: we're going to try this. And I think the meta
Speaker 1: glasses because a lot of credulous journalists when Wow, I
Speaker 1: could use this to video myself cooking. I could use
Speaker 1: this were walking around. I did a content video as
Speaker 1: a content creator. This is now a thing. And because
Speaker 1: that happened, everyone goes, oh, but those fucking dumb fuck
Speaker 1: vcs will buy anything.
Speaker 3: No one, they will, and I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but vcs will. But have we seen any proof
Speaker 1: that consumers? No, no, no, no, no, but yeah vs will. But
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, yeah, we can clone the very popular
Speaker 1: meta ray bands you mean the horrendously unpopular one sorry,
Speaker 1: the unprofitable but also not super profitable like metas.
Speaker 4: I've never seen them in the real world using them.
Speaker 8: I've literally seen one person using them. Yeah, Don Lemon,
Speaker 8: don Lemon.
Speaker 5: You could not have said a funny.
Speaker 4: That man was Don Lemon. You could tell me a
Speaker 4: story about anybody doing anything and that they say it
Speaker 4: was Don Lemon.
Speaker 3: That very that's very good.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 8: That he's shorter than what you would think. He's like
Speaker 8: maybe five seven of most.
Speaker 3: That's not good. Yeah, that's a shorter man than I expected,
Speaker 3: kind of.
Speaker 4: I went to the Razor Booth, which I know we
Speaker 4: talked about yesterday, but I did have a good time
Speaker 4: there and I actually kind of left going like they're
Speaker 4: doing it in an honest way because you know, I
Speaker 4: walk in and most of the stuff. Look, they're a
Speaker 4: second tier hardware company that makes accessories for gaming, right,
Speaker 4: and they make good ones. I had a Razor mouse.
Speaker 4: They had some keyboards. They went click click clicking. It
Speaker 4: was very nice. And then they had like a their
Speaker 4: their LLLM Rapper was a pair of gamer headphones with
Speaker 4: cameras and they're like, this is better than glasses because
Speaker 4: it's like a little bigger and no one can hear you.
Speaker 4: And then they did the same demo as where like
Speaker 4: literally they had a plastic cutting board full of plastic
Speaker 4: food and the girl goes, what can I make with this?
Speaker 4: And the LLM is like spaghetti and she's like wow, thanks,
Speaker 4: like it's literally spaghetti.
Speaker 3: And you see.
Speaker 1: The wife tube.
Speaker 4: I did. I did see the wife tube, but just
Speaker 4: to finish first. Then they're like, look, you can connect
Speaker 4: to Claude or Opus or any of them. And I'm like, okay, great,
Speaker 4: So Razor has gone. I know who gives a fun
Speaker 4: but Razor has gone. We're a hardware company. We make hardware.
Speaker 4: This is a thing that people are maybe using here's
Speaker 4: a hardware interface for it that's like pretty good, yes,
Speaker 4: and like fine, And they called it Project Makoto, which
Speaker 4: is a little bit over the top, but like it's
Speaker 4: functionally a gamer a gamer headset, right, it's not that bad.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: The little tube I thought was funny.
Speaker 3: And this is a holographic tube with the WIFU in it.
Speaker 4: It's a little holograph. Have you seen this clothes? You
Speaker 4: should probably go check the wife. You would enjoy it.
Speaker 4: I would like to see you interact with it. It's
Speaker 4: a little so like a little on your desk, a
Speaker 4: little tube and inside the tubes a little anime girl
Speaker 4: and you can talk to it and it's just like
Speaker 4: talking to Chad GPT. But you can say like hey, hey,
Speaker 4: get out my gun in Battlefield four and then she goes, okay,
Speaker 4: I added a scope to it, but.
Speaker 3: Did that work? This is what the wife tube looks like.
Speaker 4: By the way, Yeah, it's but it's a little avatar tube.
Speaker 4: It can see you. And the guy goes, hey, what
Speaker 4: do you think of Adam's outfit? Because, by the way,
Speaker 4: everybody in the Razor booth that was the most recognized.
Speaker 4: I was all weekend because they're all Internet nerds loaded,
Speaker 4: so you want you. They kept come going up and
Speaker 4: saying hi, Adam. I was like, are you fucking stop it?
Speaker 3: It pos ten seconds every time he some.
Speaker 4: But so the guy goes, he reveals that he knew
Speaker 4: who I was because he goes, what do you think
Speaker 4: of Adam's outfit? And it sort of goes like wow,
Speaker 4: cees badge on fleek looking super professional and like a boss,
Speaker 4: and Jesus Christ, you know, yep, I guess there's some
Speaker 4: gamers who might need compliments, like a little compliment tube,
Speaker 4: but it was dumb but also compliment a little toy.
Speaker 4: I felt like they weren't even taking it that they're
Speaker 4: kind of shrugging, going like, yeah, you know.
Speaker 5: This is the bullshit we gotta do this year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's were a razor. Hey you want a mouse
Speaker 4: or you want a little anime girl too? You want
Speaker 4: something you scholowed? You want whatever the fuck this pervirtue?
Speaker 4: Yeah at least yeah, but they make led fucking you
Speaker 4: know desktop towers.
Speaker 3: Nobody doesn't love it, love it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like I don't know, I just like, if
Speaker 1: you buy the wife You Tube, they should fucking put
Speaker 1: you on the list.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry if you're.
Speaker 1: Like I desire a tube or right where to quote
Speaker 1: Robert from Yesterday, where like Krieger's Hentai wife from Archer resides,
Speaker 1: you should you should not be allowed to like you
Speaker 1: should have to introduce yourself to your neighbors. Like it's
Speaker 1: just it's just a very worrying product. And also who
Speaker 1: the fuck for?
Speaker 3: Like who is because.
Speaker 1: It's not good enough to give you actual if I
Speaker 1: like ces batge on fleek, wow, fuck off.
Speaker 2: Just well, that's the thing is that, Like that's one
Speaker 2: of the things is sure, are there a lot of
Speaker 2: gamers who could use some compliments without a doubt, absolutely,
Speaker 2: but like it sort of feels insulting to their intelligence.
Speaker 5: It feels insulting.
Speaker 2: I think the way AI talks, the kind of sycophantic chat,
Speaker 2: all this, yeah, feels feels like insulting to anybody's intelligence.
Speaker 2: And it's it's sort of shocking to me that we
Speaker 2: just go, yeah, that's how it should talk and that's
Speaker 2: fine and we accept that and aren't like that's humiliating
Speaker 2: and stupid.
Speaker 4: But if fits into me in the gamer context actually,
Speaker 4: because something that so many games do that I find annoying,
Speaker 4: But clearly people must like is like, thank you so much.
Speaker 4: You saved the whole village. You're the strongest hero we've
Speaker 4: ever met. Like games, you will compliment you for doing
Speaker 4: basic things. I don't even think games do that.
Speaker 5: I mean, you saved the whole village.
Speaker 1: At them, that's more than you see that in like
Speaker 1: a textbox and it goes away and you've forgotten to happen,
Speaker 1: and I'm hammering X. I'm like, I'm just like full autists,
Speaker 1: like I need to get in this fucking bit.
Speaker 3: Fuck you did. I don't care about the story.
Speaker 1: And it's just most gamers I talk to would be
Speaker 1: very annoyed to have any interruption and just having this
Speaker 1: demented Hentai thing in the corner.
Speaker 5: Flake and not to need to wash.
Speaker 1: Do you say you need to watch utility it's a
Speaker 1: wash tube then just reminds gamers to shower. Actually, this
Speaker 1: is a use case for AI. Then I can get
Speaker 1: Oh no, we're gonna get some memos saying I'm a
Speaker 1: gamer and eye wash. But by the way, if you
Speaker 1: email me that, I'm asking how often.
Speaker 4: It is funny that, like you know, maybe it's the
Speaker 4: computer from Star Trek, right, whether you go computer do
Speaker 4: this or that? And it would answer. The computer didn't go,
Speaker 4: what a great idea, Captain. That's sure decisive and a
Speaker 4: great shows leadership on your part.
Speaker 1: I think that actually is it though it's trying.
Speaker 2: To think of how much better Captain would have felt
Speaker 2: about himself if the computer had said that.
Speaker 4: Oh, Captain Percartt had self respect.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing they're doing. They're doing that because
Speaker 1: you can't just be like, do something. You can't be like,
Speaker 1: do this because it can't do anything true. It's like
Speaker 1: you can't be like, oh you the battlefield example, It
Speaker 1: actually can't do that because it would require it to
Speaker 1: interact with the game, which it definitely can't do. So
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, they add all the sycophancy because you
Speaker 1: can't actually be like, can you do this for me?
Speaker 1: Can you find this? Because there'll be a five to
Speaker 1: ten second posset and they'll go Olympia is the capital
Speaker 1: of Washington's like I needed the fucking time, man.
Speaker 4: It said that it did it. The guy said, kid
Speaker 4: out my gun, and it said a bunch of stuff
Speaker 4: about the gun. I didn't know the game enough well
Speaker 4: enough to tell if it did, but I asked the
Speaker 4: dude I was like, do you think that gamers want
Speaker 4: this like a game assistant, because to me, a video
Speaker 4: game is like the paragon thing that you would want
Speaker 4: to do yourself. Yes, and I in this he was like, well, yes,
Speaker 4: but sometimes people people want to get better at a
Speaker 4: game like League of Legends or a game like that
Speaker 4: has a high skill ceiling, and so maybe it can
Speaker 4: give you tips. And I was like, okay, like a coach.
Speaker 4: And he's like yeah. And I was like, all right,
Speaker 4: maybe that's a use case and training a training AI
Speaker 4: that's gonna give you because people do higher like like
Speaker 4: video game like coaches.
Speaker 3: That is a market just good at a game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not like a regurgitation of how money game FAQ pages.
Speaker 1: I'm not even I'm not even being selcastic like people.
Speaker 1: I've had many people helped me with games, but people,
Speaker 1: and the whole point is they watch you and go
Speaker 1: that was wrong, that was wrong. No, do this like
Speaker 1: you're doing this. I see you regularly making this action.
Speaker 1: I don't think you could recognize that through a camera.
Speaker 8: I guess it could maybe used for like for like
Speaker 8: walk through guides. If you're like stuck at a part
Speaker 8: you don't know how to, you can ask and it'll
Speaker 8: like regurgitate some ign article about how to get past
Speaker 8: the fourth dungeon.
Speaker 4: Already has that built in?
Speaker 3: Yeah really yeah they really brought it in as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah they have a future. The developers have to like
Speaker 4: build it in. But like Astrobot has this all done,
Speaker 4: because that's like a super fish party game. It like
Speaker 4: you hit the PlayStation button and it has like game hints.
Speaker 4: So literally, you know, if you're on a level and
Speaker 4: you're like, where's the fucking third puzzle piece, and it'll
Speaker 4: like show you a little video or give you a hint.
Speaker 4: But that's like basically they just put the game fact
Speaker 4: in the game.
Speaker 1: The game.
Speaker 4: It's I used to.
Speaker 3: Write video game guides.
Speaker 1: And the problem is is the the things that people
Speaker 1: get stuck on can be so dip because it's why
Speaker 1: they have like yellow things on ladders that you have
Speaker 1: to climb now, because something that seems really obvious to
Speaker 1: one million out of one sorry, one point nine million
Speaker 1: out of two million people is really just not obvious
Speaker 1: like a thousand people, and all of those people post
Speaker 1: online and they are just like what the fuck do
Speaker 1: I do here? And then you get the people who
Speaker 1: are mad that it's too obvious.
Speaker 3: But it's like.
Speaker 1: It's yet another thing where it's like a solution in
Speaker 1: search of a problem, and it's just kind of sad
Speaker 1: and I hate to do this really abrupt thing, but
Speaker 1: we're at thirty minutes and the next thing will solve
Speaker 1: either all of your problems will cause you more your choice,
Speaker 1: but you really have to give them your money whatever
Speaker 1: it is, and if it's a podcast, you have to
Speaker 1: listen and trust them wholeheartedly. We return to our scene.
Speaker 1: We've rotated once more, bringing back Matt Binder of Mashable.
Speaker 5: Hey, nice to be here again.
Speaker 1: And of course stand up comedian and star of Is
Speaker 1: This Thing On? Chloe Ratcline.
Speaker 6: Who you have her?
Speaker 1: Where is she? Bring her out there? She is? I
Speaker 1: must see her.
Speaker 4: Someone's gonna someone who's gonna see Is This Thing On?
Speaker 4: As result, they've heard the name so many.
Speaker 5: Don't you know? What I want people to do?
Speaker 1: Who cares about it?
Speaker 2: And it's not No. The movie's amazing and I'm very
Speaker 2: happy to be in it. What I want you to do?
Speaker 2: Can I do a little plug?
Speaker 3: Please? Please?
Speaker 2: I want you to come to my stand up shows
Speaker 2: in either Cincinnati this weekend January tenth and eleventh or
Speaker 2: DC next week in January seventeen, the eighteenth, or my
Speaker 2: solo show called Cheat in Philadelphia January twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: First and I saw Cheat, want I saw cheese fucking brilliant.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 4: I mean to do that too, Pula, she plugged. I
Speaker 4: gotta plug.
Speaker 5: Uh. Now we know it's only my turn.
Speaker 4: This weekend, I'm gonna be a comedy on State in Madison, Wisconsin,
Speaker 4: one of the best clubs in the country. And then
Speaker 4: I'm going to be next weekend in Fort Wayne, Indiana,
Speaker 4: which I will not say, at the Summit Comedy Club
Speaker 4: in Fort Wayne, Indiana, which I will not say, is
Speaker 4: one of the best clubs in the country. But if
Speaker 4: you live at Fort Wayne, Indiana, it's probably the only
Speaker 4: club you have access to. And I will be there,
Speaker 4: So go see me there and then and then Houston
Speaker 4: later and I will.
Speaker 1: Be at the Chuckle Hunt Las Vegas doing my doing
Speaker 1: my new set bom actually stolen Valor and it's me
Speaker 1: doing the DreamWorks eyebrow for fifteen minutes. Anyway, we're back
Speaker 1: talking about CS Matt Benderer's return. What have you seen recently?
Speaker 5: I I don't even know anymore. Yeah, it's just just
Speaker 5: everything all at once, multiple places. I will say that
Speaker 5: this is very insaary in terms of being here, but
Speaker 5: it's fine. They they Vegas has very specific Uber pickup points. Yes,
Speaker 5: and it seems like when CS comes to town they
Speaker 5: just decide to fuck with everyone and move them place. Yes,
Speaker 5: they get telling the uber drivers yep. So you know,
Speaker 5: you try to get somewhere and you just can't because
Speaker 5: the Uber driver can't fucking get to you.
Speaker 1: West you have to go to the West Hall and
Speaker 1: go to the Diamond Lot, or you have to go
Speaker 1: to the Renaissance Hotel. That's the only way to get
Speaker 1: out of the LVCC. You can also take the tram
Speaker 1: if you want to be shoulder to shoulder with people
Speaker 1: who will want to die. Today, I walked from the LVCC.
Speaker 3: Great, how long did it take.
Speaker 5: You, uh LVCC to hear?
Speaker 1: It took me half an hour maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: less Samu powerwalk. Yeah, my priority is speed. What that's
Speaker 1: like an English thing that I'd see in Eureka Bark
Speaker 1: when your priority is speed and it's just a SaaS product. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but Matt, have you not seen the game? No? No?
Speaker 3: Have you beheld?
Speaker 5: All right? So I did. I don't even remember the
Speaker 5: name of it, but I did. I remember the last
Speaker 5: time I was on this show, I was larding the
Speaker 5: fact that crypto and blockchain is dead at cees.
Speaker 3: Oh, do you find something?
Speaker 5: I unfortunately found something. I don't remember what it did.
Speaker 5: It was a mining company. I don't know what their product.
Speaker 1: Did.
Speaker 5: I mean, but one thing I saw one thing, so's
Speaker 5: we don't got to shut out here. It's es when
Speaker 5: it comes to crypto, but it seems like it is
Speaker 5: still dead other than that one thing.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's the way. I will also say when
Speaker 1: Crypto was here, and I do remember it, it was
Speaker 1: so half hearted because first of all, it's the problem
Speaker 1: all the AI shit runs into, which is it's Internet connected.
Speaker 1: But it's also where AI really doesn't work. Crypto really
Speaker 1: really doesn't work. It's right, Yeah, it's a blockchain game. Great,
Speaker 1: So what you do is you get the thing. It
Speaker 1: takes ten to fifteen minutes based on the ethereum blockchain.
Speaker 1: And now one thing has happened, Now you'll do another thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're going to need more ethereum because every single time
Speaker 1: you touched this. I I've definitely walked around a few
Speaker 1: of those. I'm like, yeah, so does this work? What's
Speaker 1: proof of concept? We've got a white paper. I'm like,
Speaker 1: fucking just everything.
Speaker 5: That's not good, that's not good showcase material for a count.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: And last year I did see a panel that was
Speaker 1: a guy talking about quantum web three and I thought
Speaker 1: it would be funny. No, it was just a guy.
Speaker 1: It sounded like someone with a concussion, like web three,
Speaker 1: web three, web three, quantum quantum fast but quantumle break blockchain,
Speaker 1: and everyone going, hm.
Speaker 5: You you bringing up web three. It did make me
Speaker 5: remember that I did. I didn't go into it, but
Speaker 5: I did pass by. Apparently Jason Calacananas whatever his name is,
Speaker 5: from all In they were doing a live just him,
Speaker 5: were doing a live all In podcast at no interesting
Speaker 5: going in, but I mean they sent they sent like
Speaker 5: the the what the least successful.
Speaker 1: We've sent our clammiest man, our dampest man is here
Speaker 1: to bring you the dampest coverage of the ces.
Speaker 5: Because the other guy, Chopped whatever Chop whatever his name is,
Speaker 5: he's he's the most wealthy one, I think, right, and
Speaker 5: then and there's just David said and David Sackson too busy,
Speaker 5: too busy with his insidery trading stuff with the Trump administration. Yeah, so,
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess Jason kalakan Asen whenever how you
Speaker 5: ever said his last name? Yeah, I mean where was
Speaker 5: his claim to fame again?
Speaker 1: He sold Mahalow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the SEO Yeah, the SEO Show, and then weblows engineer,
Speaker 5: but weblogs which created and gadget.
Speaker 1: It's like a weird thing where like he had a
Speaker 1: hand and he was also right right right right basically,
Speaker 1: what the fuck is he doing here?
Speaker 5: He's on the All In podcast. He's one of the
Speaker 5: four hosts, right, I mean.
Speaker 1: What Yeah, But I mean, I guess I can't really
Speaker 1: judge someone of being like I'm going to do a
Speaker 1: random podcast at CES.
Speaker 3: It's not random. I planned it all right, right no, but.
Speaker 5: I mean it wasn't though, Like this is ed Zitron show,
Speaker 5: and ed Zitron is here. Yes, they all In is
Speaker 5: four guys, and they sent just the one guy. They
Speaker 5: don't really even like that is really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did a regular episode doing one right now,
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, Jason and each to cover Cees. Fine
Speaker 1: fucking Christ, Okay, let's do the Let's do the show.
Speaker 1: Jason's gone, God, that would be really I think is
Speaker 1: there four of them?
Speaker 5: There's four of them. I never remember the fourth one.
Speaker 5: But because he stays out of the political world, I
Speaker 5: think for the most part.
Speaker 1: They had Trump on and he was just like, we're
Speaker 1: gonna be the biggest immigrants. Are gonna have the biggest
Speaker 1: immogrants in the world. They're gonna be the largest, and
Speaker 1: the like, that's so great. You should do one h
Speaker 1: one bees. I don't like Barners, Like, yeah, we don't
Speaker 1: like them either, we need h one bees. Well you
Speaker 1: don't like them, but they were the biggest.
Speaker 5: He was looking at Chamith. I'm sure when he said
Speaker 5: I don't like Varners. I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure sure that that was fine. Oh God,
Speaker 1: I can't believe, Like this is stay at this is
Speaker 1: meant to be Actually, this is a good segue. This
Speaker 1: is meant to be the consumer electronics show. But I
Speaker 1: keep running into non consumer like, oh, Eureka Park is
Speaker 1: like full of just meaningful enterprise stuff like sensors and
Speaker 1: like a solar things and like things that when you
Speaker 1: look at you want to make a joke at it
Speaker 1: be like, okay, this is a specific center for like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's of wetness sin so for a specific like cleaner
Speaker 1: of something.
Speaker 3: It's like a very specific thing.
Speaker 1: And then just like a count litter, like a robotic
Speaker 1: catlt thing that was not available.
Speaker 4: Right, I mean, yeah, I was taking a video of
Speaker 4: just like I was at I was in something that
Speaker 4: had like a whole lot of signs up like it
Speaker 4: was a science fair, and and I was I videoed
Speaker 4: just like the titles because they were baffling to me.
Speaker 4: Fleet management with vision AI nice EDGI meets human touch
Speaker 4: what and then AI Native compute for the IoT.
Speaker 1: These are not consumer products, these are money lending operations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just connecting.
Speaker 1: That's just connecting various phrases together to see how many
Speaker 1: venture capitalists actually read the things they invest in.
Speaker 5: That's classic CES. Though a few years ago it was
Speaker 5: every company was a web three metaverse interactive artificial intelligence
Speaker 5: blocked on the blockchain.
Speaker 1: My favorite one was one that was just want to
Speaker 1: buy that? Yeah, No, My favorite one was one that
Speaker 1: just said, let's say it was called sorb and it
Speaker 1: solve via sorb. Let's just bring this up. Yeah. I saw,
Speaker 1: for a second, I thought he's sorb sort solve via
Speaker 1: sorb solve your accent is making this specific and this
Speaker 1: is really difficult. I just read s sor V solved
Speaker 1: via sorb and I will admit I didn't want to
Speaker 1: know anything more because mostly to handle it like I
Speaker 1: got I got it.
Speaker 3: My I'm constantly like what do I do? And I
Speaker 3: sor right, that's I'm sorbin.
Speaker 2: A side note on the accent, this is a completely
Speaker 2: unrelated I'm also dating a British man and I'm dating
Speaker 2: a man who is also British, and uh, he tried
Speaker 2: to make a joke of what's your source on that?
Speaker 2: But he pronounced it, but he was The joke was
Speaker 2: what's your sauce on that? But in a British accent,
Speaker 2: source and sauce are exactly the same word, like there
Speaker 2: is no distinguishing. And I made him say what's your
Speaker 2: sauce on that? Probably fifteen times in a rope because
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't understand what the joke is.
Speaker 2: I know you are making a joke.
Speaker 1: This is like there's the show called p a w
Speaker 1: N Stars. Now here's my problem. If I started saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was watching porn stars.
Speaker 2: This this, this leads to more questions than answer for
Speaker 2: all that the Brits are are king of wordplay in America.
Speaker 2: We've come up with a lot of wordplay that absolutely
Speaker 2: paralyzes you.
Speaker 1: Kind and I'm like, yeah, I'm watching porn Stars. There's
Speaker 1: this big guy called Chumley and then there's Rick and
Speaker 1: they're like all right, it's like yeah, one, he's constantly
Speaker 1: conning people, and like, whoa, this is some weird porno.
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, no is.
Speaker 4: I literally was thinking of pwn Stars like one hundred
Speaker 4: and twenty seconds ago, because when you were talking about
Speaker 4: them sending the one guy from all in, I was like,
Speaker 4: that's like if it was the cast of pawn Stars
Speaker 4: and they only said Chumley. I was like, maybe that's
Speaker 4: a joke I should say, And then I let it
Speaker 4: pass because I'm like, yeah, ponn Stars kind of an
Speaker 4: old reference.
Speaker 3: And then here you are, yeah right two minutes later.
Speaker 5: Have you ever told anyone added who your favorite character is?
Speaker 5: And then you have to let them know it's the
Speaker 5: old Man? Yes, yeah, my brain, it's my favorite porn star.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the old man that ows like this
Speaker 1: in my porn start. Yeah, it's but every episode of
Speaker 1: that show is great because it's just Charlmley being like, yo,
Speaker 1: I bought a Corra, a Toyota Corolla for fifteen thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: and then Rick's like, ah, that's terrible, but I scammed
Speaker 1: an old lady out of a fifty million dollar coin
Speaker 1: by giving her three hundred bucks. It's just an evil
Speaker 1: show and I love it. Yeah, but they charge you
Speaker 1: to go in there. Now, they should be on the
Speaker 1: show for why don't Cholmley should just kind of like
Speaker 1: amble through the RecA they charge you to go into
Speaker 1: the actual physical Yeah I've not I've not actually been
Speaker 1: because I think every Vegas resident just stays out of
Speaker 1: the tourist areas.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's I would love them to come on
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 2: This is this is back to my pitch about a
Speaker 2: CEES fringe festival.
Speaker 1: Yes, we could have ship like yeah, the.
Speaker 2: Pond stars guys have have a booth.
Speaker 3: Some trying to buy his thoughts up?
Speaker 8: Is it?
Speaker 4: Genuinely? I mean a CS fringe festivaloud be kind of
Speaker 4: like like XO XO or another like creative tech festival.
Speaker 4: You could do something like that nearby and have like
Speaker 4: cool people with like their itch dot io projects. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: like they're weird, hacky things, you know that would be fun.
Speaker 1: And just like you get the Grandma orb and you
Speaker 1: just fucking blitter ate. You just have a fifty cow
Speaker 1: rifle that you unload into a computer.
Speaker 3: Okay, this is actually.
Speaker 2: Like a rage room for you can go to CES
Speaker 2: and then there's a rage room with all of the
Speaker 2: products at CES.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You then get to.
Speaker 3: Walking around the shopping like, do you mind if I
Speaker 3: shoot this?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: What what?
Speaker 2: I just want to I want to state for the record,
Speaker 2: if any listener decides to start a CEES fringe, you
Speaker 2: have to you have to credit me as a co creator.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, okay, but they don't have to pay you.
Speaker 1: I would maybe, Okay, that would get too expensive.
Speaker 5: It's your ip.
Speaker 2: It's developed here on the show.
Speaker 1: Developed on bet rough Line and thus owned by iHeart
Speaker 1: Radio this fun. Yes, No, the ideas on the show
Speaker 1: are owned by I think me. I haven't really checked anyway. No,
Speaker 1: it's it's such a peculiar show and I don't want
Speaker 1: to repeat myself and just it's useless, but it is.
Speaker 1: There are less cameras, dildos and batteries companies, which is disappointing,
Speaker 1: And there are less practical, like I've been looking for
Speaker 1: anchor a n K E R. Right, they're like my favorite,
Speaker 1: Like I got big fucking ankor battery.
Speaker 5: Make a lot of mobile chargers and stuff.
Speaker 1: Mobile chargers and stuff like I like them. Can't find
Speaker 1: no like. And it's funny the description of the useful
Speaker 1: products so far stuff that exists still like a battery
Speaker 1: for girls, like.
Speaker 5: That's that's new that doesn't exist?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because a woman, if you try and
Speaker 1: picked up this battery.
Speaker 5: It's too heavy, you'd be like, whoa.
Speaker 1: I go, arms, mister, can you live this really? Thank you?
Speaker 1: I don't like this one because it's black, but if
Speaker 1: it had flowers on it, then I'd love it. Then
Speaker 1: I go, that's for me.
Speaker 4: The little mirror on it you can check your makeup
Speaker 4: so you could look at.
Speaker 3: Yourself, because women do that.
Speaker 5: I love mirror.
Speaker 3: You could get so far at this show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but as a man, I prefer to have a hologram.
Speaker 2: Wife who I will say, okay, not to be all
Speaker 2: a woman about it. The wife tube, I was you
Speaker 2: gonna have?
Speaker 4: You could put a man in the tube.
Speaker 1: And does anyone which one?
Speaker 4: The razor one?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Volksori was saying there's a man with tattoos you can.
Speaker 1: Put an Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I don't remember if we even talked about this
Speaker 5: when I was on last time.
Speaker 3: We should keep talking.
Speaker 5: About the Okay, so the Razor one is the Project
Speaker 5: Koto or something like that.
Speaker 4: No, that's the headphones, Project Ava is the is the
Speaker 4: wife in the tube?
Speaker 9: Oh?
Speaker 5: No, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2: I was just really project You are correct.
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm glad you're on this, thank you, because I'm not.
Speaker 5: But there are weirder ones because because the the Razor one,
Speaker 5: actually do they showed it to you, right, so they
Speaker 5: were like actual I wouldn't use it, but they were
Speaker 5: there were actual use case applications like and you can
Speaker 5: put a.
Speaker 1: Guy in a yeah, and like you're.
Speaker 5: Playing you're playing a video game and you're like, oh,
Speaker 5: is this the best uh you know configuration for my character?
Speaker 5: And no one does. But that at least is like
Speaker 5: an idea they got.
Speaker 8: There.
Speaker 5: There's one that I saw from a company called They've
Speaker 5: Got an Idea. I mean that's that's yes, they got
Speaker 5: an idea. They got an idea.
Speaker 1: I guess alternative tubes.
Speaker 5: Yes, So so this company Lempro has this is this
Speaker 5: tube called amy, and it's not as good as a hologram,
Speaker 5: but it's still You put a woman in a box,
Speaker 5: which is weird. A tiny woman in a box is
Speaker 5: a big thing now, apparently because a lot of companies
Speaker 5: want to do this.
Speaker 3: It's very weird video. But the whole, the whole.
Speaker 5: Purpose of the a me from lempro seems to be
Speaker 5: not AI assistant or any ideas like that. It's simply
Speaker 5: you're a lonely guy and you want to talk to
Speaker 5: this woman, and you.
Speaker 1: Don't have a woman trapping a woman.
Speaker 2: You don't want her to be full sized, right, and
Speaker 2: you don't want her to be able to go anywhere.
Speaker 5: Because they were they were they were talking about it
Speaker 5: as an AI companion, and my colleague at Mashable was
Speaker 5: doing a video on it, holding the device talking about it,
Speaker 5: said you know, if you need a friend, I guess,
Speaker 5: And while he's saying friend, the little woman in the
Speaker 5: box starts literally like gyrating her body as if she's
Speaker 5: like doing a strip tease. And I had to be like, buddy,
Speaker 5: I don't think she's meant to be your friend.
Speaker 1: I mean, have you ever wanted the experience of thinking
Speaker 1: a strip a fell in love? With you every day, right, And.
Speaker 5: It's it's because listen, I I don't want to put
Speaker 5: a stigma on sex text. Yes they did that years ago.
Speaker 3: We already talked about jack and right.
Speaker 5: But but like, this doesn't feel like sex tech. This
Speaker 5: feels like gooner. I don't know, it doesn't feel like
Speaker 5: something that like is normal even for like what people
Speaker 5: should be experiencing sexual.
Speaker 4: In order to wanna have it socially, you need to
Speaker 4: be socially stunted in a way that other people perceive
Speaker 4: as on you. Like I remember what I was a
Speaker 4: nerd and I grew up around other nerds and then
Speaker 4: occasionally I remember, now he's.
Speaker 3: A cool, Yeah, now he's cool.
Speaker 4: I remember me like sixteen, and one of my friends
Speaker 4: would say something about about women where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 4: you really don't see them as people and not in
Speaker 4: like even a You feel so pathetic internally, you have
Speaker 4: so little ability to communicate that you sort of see
Speaker 4: it as you see another person as as being a
Speaker 4: stimulus producing machine for your purpose. And there are people
Speaker 4: like that, and you you to buy one of these products.
Speaker 4: You have to. That's how you have to see other people.
Speaker 4: You have You have to be like really mentally socially,
Speaker 4: emotionally like disabled in a way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just want to I want to sort
Speaker 2: of plant a flag very firmly. And we don't even
Speaker 2: have to analyze this, but just sort of like for
Speaker 2: posterity's sake, the sort of the broadest and most most
Speaker 2: foundational symbology of a technology where it says, here's a
Speaker 2: little woman that lives in a box on your desk
Speaker 2: is just sort of every sentence, every word in that
Speaker 2: scene explaining worse and worse and worse for gender dynamics.
Speaker 2: It really does symbolize somebody who doesn't see women as.
Speaker 3: Equals, right.
Speaker 5: I mean one of the one of the recommended demo
Speaker 5: like uh commands you were they they told you to try,
Speaker 5: was to go up to the box and say dance
Speaker 5: for me. I mean that that alone is very weird,
Speaker 5: like pretty damning. And for people who use this tea
Speaker 5: of the Hut?
Speaker 3: Do you want do you want to be like jab
Speaker 3: of the Hut?
Speaker 4: I had a long dude, show me, Oh that's good.
Speaker 5: No, do like I like it?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? But also I hate to ask, but
Speaker 1: how what was the woman white and thin?
Speaker 4: By any chance?
Speaker 5: There were there were a few women.
Speaker 1: Many women to trap, but you could you could pretty
Speaker 1: much guess.
Speaker 5: Yes, there was like a white like a blonde white
Speaker 5: school girl, and then a a like, uh, like a
Speaker 5: Japanese woman dressed in like traditional Japanese garb. But you
Speaker 5: know the type of it's really bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really really.
Speaker 4: Making it for me. Actually making it anime makes it
Speaker 4: slightly more palable because.
Speaker 1: There but it's not anime.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's not anime.
Speaker 1: It's it's just a white school girl.
Speaker 3: It's just people.
Speaker 5: They're not real, they're not like human models. They are
Speaker 5: sort of like cartoony, but it is like anime style.
Speaker 4: But I was gonna say there' stuff like gen Should
Speaker 4: Impact where people like collect their favorite characters they find
Speaker 4: them sexy. Both women and men do this, and it's
Speaker 4: like it's a little it's sort of like fun fantasy land.
Speaker 4: And I can see a version of this product that
Speaker 4: like appeals to the Genchin Impact player were like the
Speaker 4: average person might be like, that's kind of weird, but
Speaker 4: I don't enough people who do it where I'm like,
Speaker 4: you can do it in a fun way, but like
Speaker 4: in general, as ghost is a companion, which is bad.
Speaker 5: Right, Like the Raison one. You said, like the model
Speaker 5: of the woman in there was like an anime character.
Speaker 5: It was like a known I don't know who she was,
Speaker 5: but it was a known person. And while she might
Speaker 5: have been dressed like provocatively, it was the character. But
Speaker 5: also there's no actions that add to that that that
Speaker 5: that that at all her characters. I agree, but I'm
Speaker 5: just trying to differentiate the two products. This one, this
Speaker 5: one is great. They were they were they were stressed
Speaker 5: that way and then acting out ways you would fantasize someone.
Speaker 2: And not wait, are you saying the Razor one is
Speaker 2: a real character?
Speaker 1: Is a character that in the worst Yeah? And then
Speaker 1: these are not.
Speaker 5: These are just the AI companion creations.
Speaker 2: And you think about it and you're like, you know,
Speaker 2: these people you have when you're designing a companion, you
Speaker 2: have a literal infinite number of human characters who you
Speaker 2: could you know, like, why not pick a sixty five
Speaker 2: year old lady bus driver in the Bronx?
Speaker 1: Why not?
Speaker 3: Honestly, why not?
Speaker 5: But this is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: But the reason that you are laughing at this, and look,
Speaker 2: I'm saying that it's not sexual, But.
Speaker 5: The reason that I'm laughing want me Streep in a box.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest.
Speaker 5: I want to fuck Meryl Streep. No, okay, what if
Speaker 5: I just want to talk shop with Meryl Streep about
Speaker 5: her film career and a little box.
Speaker 3: But I'm going to be honest.
Speaker 1: Some of the best conversations I've ever had have been
Speaker 1: with like random old people at airports, Like a few
Speaker 1: years ago, I was out of random. I forget where.
Speaker 1: I was like maybe sort Lake City or regardless. I
Speaker 1: just talked to this guy next to me and he
Speaker 1: was a former NFL player from like the sixties or
Speaker 1: set like it was before.
Speaker 3: It was like a high paying job just.
Speaker 1: Chat ship for half an hour. Have we kind of
Speaker 1: talked about this and I was like, yeah, I'm going
Speaker 1: through some shit right now. I'm like, we had an
Speaker 1: honest conversation that was probably like icon imagine that.
Speaker 5: Was more socially hewing and.
Speaker 1: As far as like, yeah, to your point, executly sorry,
Speaker 1: it means tokoby, and it's like the actual woman, No,
Speaker 1: they're going to get me for this. But the loneliness thing,
Speaker 1: the isolation isn't solved by sex, and like immediately placing
Speaker 1: women in this situation where they are the solution to
Speaker 1: men's problems is put to its male loneliness. Bullshit. It's
Speaker 1: claiming that women are somehow the solution to men not
Speaker 1: seeking introspection and companionship.
Speaker 2: And what's funny is that it's not even woman is
Speaker 2: the solution, because there's a there's a sixty five year
Speaker 2: old bronx bus who would not count as the solution.
Speaker 2: What it is is there is a there is a
Speaker 2: specific checklist of a woman's weight, facial beauty, and social
Speaker 2: subservience that are supposed to that are supposed to fit
Speaker 2: into into this very narrow range of measurements, and that
Speaker 2: woman then owes service to man who is lonely. Yep,
Speaker 2: and I want to be I want to be like
Speaker 2: as fair as possible. So say a man is very
Speaker 2: lonely a man, a man lives a very isolated life
Speaker 2: and goes I can see a use for an AI
Speaker 2: companion as a like a social like fill the hole
Speaker 2: that is in my life that I can't figure out
Speaker 2: another way to fill that. Maybe we would say, hey,
Speaker 2: what do you like? Do you like chess? Go find
Speaker 2: a once a week chess or once a month chest night.
Speaker 2: Hey do you like I don't know whatever.
Speaker 5: There's chess playing robots that will solve that problem.
Speaker 2: You don't know what to talk to me about, right that, Like,
Speaker 2: I understand that there are people who live an incredibly
Speaker 2: isolated life that I would maybe look at it and go,
Speaker 2: there are ways to solve this. There are analogue, human
Speaker 2: to human ways to solve this and to take baby
Speaker 2: steps forward.
Speaker 5: Sure, of course, I mean I think that that's the solution, and.
Speaker 2: I'll be all but like I can imagine somebody who
Speaker 2: goes that kind of human facing solution is impossible for me.
Speaker 2: I cannot imagine leaving my apartment. I cannot imagine going
Speaker 2: to a chestnight, I cannot imagine whatever insert Sure, fine, okay,
Speaker 2: So I'm trying to like be as fair as possible.
Speaker 1: Have as much as much empathy as possible.
Speaker 2: And and this person, first of all, the idea that
Speaker 2: this person doesn't have inherent Sorry I'm really on my
Speaker 2: soop box now, this is but the idea that that
Speaker 2: person doesn't already it like, hasn't already been inherently soaked
Speaker 2: in sexist assumptions and standards and and a view inherently
Speaker 2: of women as unequal, because that is we all I
Speaker 2: view women as an unequal because that is the water
Speaker 2: that we swim in, that is how we live, that
Speaker 2: is how that is how we are socialized. So like,
Speaker 2: those assumptions already exist in all of us, and particularly
Speaker 2: in this isolated person.
Speaker 5: But again I'm.
Speaker 2: Being as fair as possible say that those assumptions are
Speaker 2: not actually surface level, they're inherent. They they operate in
Speaker 2: how we make subconscious judgments. But this person is not,
Speaker 2: you know, sort of like outright a sexist. They buy
Speaker 2: wife in a tube and suddenly there, if we're assuming
Speaker 2: that they're pretty isolated, suddenly they're a huge bulk of
Speaker 2: their interaction with what feels like a human is Japanese
Speaker 2: lady in a kimono, well, who probably has big hits
Speaker 2: under that kimono.
Speaker 5: Good for you know, like a good.
Speaker 2: Is that it's like that Suddenly it becomes your only
Speaker 2: interaction with with the concept of a woman, or or
Speaker 2: the vast majority of your interaction with the concept of
Speaker 2: a woman like that inherently is going to poison how
Speaker 2: you interact with your interactions with gender.
Speaker 5: And I just like that.
Speaker 2: That to me, that is my fairest take where where
Speaker 2: where I'm not saying it's evil at the top. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: it's like evil at the out from the outset. I
Speaker 2: think the product is evil from the outset, but the
Speaker 2: person doesn't necessarily have to be like fucked up from
Speaker 2: the outset.
Speaker 1: But I just think this product is going to heat
Speaker 1: to I want to write, I want to add one
Speaker 1: thing to that, which is it also inherently connects loneliness
Speaker 1: with sex and physical validation, because it's like, why isn't
Speaker 1: a guy like why do you have to have a
Speaker 1: woman you are attracted to to solve your loneliness? Why
Speaker 1: is your companion by default the opposite sex and I
Speaker 1: assume validating how you look and telling you you're a
Speaker 1: Why is that? Because that is not because that's where
Speaker 1: it gets into the like woman subservience thing for me.
Speaker 3: As well, because it's service.
Speaker 5: That's that's because all these all these all these products
Speaker 5: aren't solved if your issue is solving your your social problem,
Speaker 5: none of these no tech product is going to Yes,
Speaker 5: but the whole point we're or like exposing like exposure
Speaker 5: to the outside world, right, Like you, if you have
Speaker 5: a problem socializing with people, then the way you fix
Speaker 5: that is by forcing yourself to socialize with people like
Speaker 5: Tech can't by definition fixed that because Tech is not
Speaker 5: a person.
Speaker 1: And I mean I used to be a very awkward
Speaker 1: but like even like you're not chloyed, but he's cool now,
Speaker 1: but I'm cool and no I am not. But it's like,
Speaker 1: and it took having to have some very harsh conversations
Speaker 1: with myself and my therapist and just accepting that, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was awkward, I was not thoughtful about my conversation style,
Speaker 1: and I was just hated myself and didn't think I
Speaker 1: was human. Yeah, I'm being to fucking therapy now. It's great,
Speaker 1: but it's solving that would not be someone validating my
Speaker 1: every whim. You kind of need to hurt a little
Speaker 1: bit because no one's perfect. But it's like saying, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: a sexy wifu in a tube is your prisoner now,
Speaker 1: and now you won't be lonely because the prison wife
Speaker 1: is yours and.
Speaker 2: I can and again like being as fair as possible,
Speaker 2: giving giving as much credit to the other perspectives as possible.
Speaker 2: I can imagine somebody saying when you're saying, like, I
Speaker 2: don't want the solution to be loneliness, to be inherently
Speaker 2: tied to romance. I agree at a philosophical level, but
Speaker 2: I can imagine that from a pragmatic view, a huge
Speaker 2: amount of very lonely people are like, yeah, I would
Speaker 2: love to be in love.
Speaker 5: There's a lot.
Speaker 1: Isn't solve it. It doesn't solve If you hate yourself
Speaker 1: and you meet someone and you have sex with them,
Speaker 1: and you're with them and you still fucking hate yourself,
Speaker 1: you are going to become dependent on that one and
Speaker 1: you are going to be a fucking You're going to
Speaker 1: be a tumor on them.
Speaker 3: It's just I hate It's that sucks, Chloe.
Speaker 1: My autism is such I genuinely don't think about your
Speaker 1: both ever. And you know, I'm like the one person
Speaker 1: Wait my favorite Oh no, it's sucking rocks.
Speaker 3: It's the store anyway.
Speaker 4: No, no, Claire, Chloe. She's got a big birthmark for
Speaker 4: those who are just hearing her via audio. Look, it is,
Speaker 4: first of all, the loneliness. The loneliness epidemic is real.
Speaker 4: It does kill people. It's like the discourse about it whatever,
Speaker 4: but like it is a real problem. It's also like
Speaker 4: evidence of such a deep distortion in our society that
Speaker 4: we have it because the thing that we have the
Speaker 4: most of in the world is other people.
Speaker 1: Yes, we go too many.
Speaker 2: We are literally the most second only to other chickens.
Speaker 4: And the whole idea of replacing people with technology at
Speaker 4: all is insane because we've got eight billion of us
Speaker 4: up from six billion when I was in like high school.
Speaker 4: And guess what, they're cheap, Like you want one in America,
Speaker 4: you can get one for seven bucks an hour and
Speaker 4: they'll do whatever the fuck you want, you know, Like
Speaker 4: that's and by the way, even when it comes to
Speaker 4: like companionship, right, there's a role for people to do
Speaker 4: that commercially. I'm friends with women who are sex workers,
Speaker 4: and they see at least a couple of them as like, look,
Speaker 4: there's guys who like they need love and sex. It's
Speaker 4: a human need. They like have their neurodivergent or have
Speaker 4: some other issue in such a way, and I can
Speaker 4: provide a service and they get something out of it.
Speaker 4: It's reciprocry. That's the best version of it, right, et cetera.
Speaker 4: I could go into but like that's a real that's
Speaker 4: a real that's a uh, that's like an occupation that
Speaker 4: stigmatized in our society. Yeah, but like it's a real
Speaker 4: thing that a human could do better. Un Yeah, the
Speaker 4: idea that we're replacing people as insane.
Speaker 5: Yeah. There is a difference, though, I think between like
Speaker 5: the the loneliness epidemic and like the socialization problem. Like
Speaker 5: there were guys who have plenty of friends just have
Speaker 5: trouble with women, so they go to sex workers, and
Speaker 5: that's that's fine, and hopefully they don't you know, they
Speaker 5: are normal people other than that. But you know, but
Speaker 5: the socialization thing, these people who aren't even thinking about,
Speaker 5: you know, interacting with another woman even for pay like this.
Speaker 5: These are people who who just want to control something
Speaker 5: because they don't even want to. I don't think they
Speaker 5: want to fix the socialization problem, because why would you
Speaker 5: buy a woman in a box? If you're like, I'm
Speaker 5: socially awkward, I need to talk to someone. That doesn't
Speaker 5: solve your issue. That's not even something that gets you
Speaker 5: in that direction in my.
Speaker 1: Opinion, I just I don't think it doesn't involve any introspection, right,
Speaker 1: it's just about I got a thing that kind of
Speaker 1: solves the problem so that I don't have to think
Speaker 1: about solving the problem.
Speaker 5: Right, Like many people online like that's a fairly new thing.
Speaker 5: And you know what, it solved a lot you Actually
Speaker 5: it's technology. You use technology to actually enhance your real life,
Speaker 5: your your real work.
Speaker 1: Every single person in this room who has been on
Speaker 1: this show, including Phil, who I've known for fourteen years,
Speaker 1: I know through the Internet, right, every single fucking one.
Speaker 1: I'm like the drill crying tweet. It's like my beautiful
Speaker 1: wife crying, my job, crying, my watch, crying. Now get
Speaker 1: the fuck out of my office. But that with the Internet,
Speaker 1: and it's like, it is difficult. I'm not pretending like
Speaker 1: loneliness isn't like a thing, but I fuck it. I
Speaker 1: resent the male loneliness thing because women get lonely too,
Speaker 1: and they solve it in a vastly different way. And
Speaker 1: there's not just a series of different cons set up
Speaker 1: to corn a woman.
Speaker 3: It's being like you want.
Speaker 1: A husband tube, right, you want that? Do you want
Speaker 1: the man tube?
Speaker 5: There is none, right, there's nothing that no one putting
Speaker 5: in a guy in a box.
Speaker 1: That's no one saying that because women have put in
Speaker 1: a position where them it's work them meant to fucking
Speaker 1: work out. Women have to fucking work out women And
Speaker 1: tell it's your fucking fool lonely? Why are you?
Speaker 3: Why are you too emotional?
Speaker 1: Why this?
Speaker 3: Why are you that?
Speaker 1: Fucking just it pisses me off because it's like these
Speaker 1: whindy fucking men who are like, oh, yeah, I'm fucking
Speaker 1: loneli and also I'm gonna become racist and it's just
Speaker 1: fuck hot. I'm sorry. I have some very spicy feelings
Speaker 1: about this because I went through the actual work and
Speaker 1: it was very difficult and annoying.
Speaker 5: I agree. I fully agree with you. I think, you know,
Speaker 5: I don't think they consider the fact that women are
Speaker 5: are can be lonely, like it's not because in a
Speaker 5: lonely guy's world they think, and you see this online
Speaker 5: all the time because you could see how angry they
Speaker 5: get when oh, a woman decides to like start an
Speaker 5: only fans and they are successful and they make money
Speaker 5: doing that. They're like, oh, it's so easy for women.
Speaker 5: They just go out there and they could talk to anybody,
Speaker 5: and every guy will want to talk with them. And
Speaker 5: it's like, you know, but you could just go out
Speaker 5: there and talk to what's nothing.
Speaker 3: Stopping Oh I'm going to say something really out there.
Speaker 1: Every guy who says that get on only fans start
Speaker 1: selling pictures of your car. I'm serious, I'm actually fucking serious.
Speaker 2: Who they would never there because gay is bad? Because
Speaker 2: why is gay bad? Because it is close to women.
Speaker 1: It's feminine. You can possibly look at a man's penis
Speaker 1: might turn gay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's just comes down to the
Speaker 2: like such foundational views. It's the it's the it's the
Speaker 2: most foundational framing of women in society, which is women
Speaker 2: are uh there to be consumed and men are there
Speaker 2: to consume. Yeah, And it's so deeply fucked up, and
Speaker 2: it holds, it kills, It kills women and arguably it
Speaker 2: kills men.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you Adam for staking the men.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I think that the point you make
Speaker 4: is you guys can you can go and talk to
Speaker 4: anybody and the time is true to me, It's it's
Speaker 4: similar to a lot of other social problems like you know,
Speaker 4: poor nutrition, people being in poor shape, not exercising right. Yes,
Speaker 4: anyone can eat better and jog or whatever. And also
Speaker 4: some people grow up in an environment where everything that
Speaker 4: they're ever told, every product they ever purchased, their entire
Speaker 4: environment is pushing them away from doing that thing, and
Speaker 4: they just never get around to it. So like my
Speaker 4: dad has no friends, my mom has twenty friends, not
Speaker 4: because my dad's a piece of shit, just that's the
Speaker 4: way American society is structured. And so yes, my dad
Speaker 4: has a responsibility. And also society can look at this
Speaker 4: overall problem. But what the fuck are we doing wrong
Speaker 4: here that's causing this like demographic problem. And the answer
Speaker 4: is not wife who's in tubes? The answer is like
Speaker 4: connecting people with other people vices?
Speaker 5: But also is is your dad lonely? Like there's some
Speaker 5: people who's.
Speaker 1: Prefer actually just my father, my family.
Speaker 5: Like for it to be a socialization problem, you have
Speaker 5: to be a lonely guy who's upset you're alone, you feeling.
Speaker 1: Like you're alone and not trying to change that, right.
Speaker 5: Right, right, because because if there are people who are
Speaker 5: completely content being isolated, and they don't view themselves as that,
Speaker 5: but like you know, they prefer to stay in then
Speaker 5: go out and hang out or party like they like
Speaker 5: their time to themselves, and that's completely fine. But there's
Speaker 5: people who are inside and are angry they're inside and alone,
Speaker 5: and that's the difference.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so I hate to do this.
Speaker 1: We're going to rotate again coming up and ad for
Speaker 1: men and women.
Speaker 4: Whoa like.
Speaker 3: They got them for both birds and the fellers.
Speaker 1: Now, wow, we're in the fourth quarter and I haven't
Speaker 1: had any war. That's actually true. I have not drunk
Speaker 1: a drop of war. I think I've had eleven diet code.
Speaker 1: Do you have a bottle of water?
Speaker 5: Next?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's mostly I just like to sit with it. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're back's better offline and we'd talk about my lonely
Speaker 1: this epidemic.
Speaker 3: I guess we're back. And of course with a meeting
Speaker 3: an actress Chloe Radcliffe.
Speaker 1: We will let you do your plagues plags. Do your plags. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you plagues plagues at the end, and you, of course
Speaker 1: Adam Connor a stand up comedian, Hello, and of course
Speaker 1: the host of the Factory broadcast. And we're actually joined
Speaker 1: by Ben, my good mate Ben Rudolph is there, CEO
Speaker 1: of Cartographic.
Speaker 3: And you did fifteen years at Microsoft.
Speaker 6: I sure did.
Speaker 3: You did the poff of Windows Vista.
Speaker 6: You were saying, enterprise pr for Windows Vista the worst
Speaker 6: job in the company.
Speaker 3: But it's honestly though, that's the most poff thing.
Speaker 2: You like.
Speaker 1: You all always have one. Yeah, you have one thing.
Speaker 1: I made it though you made it and you're still smiling.
Speaker 1: I'm here, but that's like, it's Jermaine's what we're talking about,
Speaker 1: like positive male role models, positive male discussions. Because I
Speaker 1: brought you, because you're a good mate and we've done
Speaker 1: a lot, like we're friends online and you've talked to
Speaker 1: me about fitness and being like you've genuinely changed my life,
Speaker 1: like helping me build a workout routine.
Speaker 3: This so like you. My relationship with you.
Speaker 1: Solved more male loneliness than any like romantic relationship have ever.
Speaker 2: Are you Are you a fitness coach?
Speaker 4: Are you just for no?
Speaker 6: Not really no at all.
Speaker 1: He's just and just to give you a Nightea. Ben
Speaker 1: is fucking like jacked. It's awesome.
Speaker 6: I'm trying every day and to get a little bit more,
Speaker 6: a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Yea, yeah, no I'm not.
Speaker 6: I'm not a fitness coach at all. I uh, I
Speaker 6: love lifting weights. I try and keep myself in shape.
Speaker 6: I've got nine kids, so yeah, so I had a
Speaker 6: lot of people who are dependent on me lift up.
Speaker 6: It's a lot of exactly and not a functional fitness
Speaker 6: Oh but seriously, like it's great for my health. It's
Speaker 6: great for my mental health.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great for my.
Speaker 6: Family, you know, and like you d like, it solves
Speaker 6: as many mental challenges for me as it does physical challenges,
Speaker 6: So like it's not a career for me. It's just
Speaker 6: something I really enjoy doing. And it's so deeply ingrained
Speaker 6: into my day to day routine that I really can't
Speaker 6: imagine living without it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we met over X the Everything app and
Speaker 1: The Ultimate Post the Championship with the You Me Caleb
Speaker 1: and Tachiana, and we just talked fitness and like, ick
Speaker 1: up my body real bad doing connected fitness stuff. Actually,
Speaker 1: who was like fight Camp and Tonal and I was
Speaker 1: lifting real hard. I was not in a good place
Speaker 1: and I kind of went to bed. I'm like this
Speaker 1: keeps happening and I keep getting this pain. And Ben
Speaker 1: just sends me a video of him and his son.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm gonna show you how to throw a punch,
Speaker 1: and it was lovely, like someone's like you ready, and
Speaker 1: he just threw this perfect like spiral punch and went, wow,
Speaker 1: I've been punching wrong for several months because you need
Speaker 1: to like rotate your hips and such. And it's just
Speaker 1: like It's one of the things I cherish because it's
Speaker 1: like a wonderful relationship over the internet, for sure, a
Speaker 1: wonderful positive thing based with talking to another bloke about
Speaker 1: something positive. And I think it's really easy to dilute
Speaker 1: a lot of loneliness to well, I need a female
Speaker 1: or a romantic companion. I need someone to make me
Speaker 1: feel better about myself versus helping me along a journey
Speaker 1: where I do that work while someone inspires me. Because
Speaker 1: you're cute and you've done you always post the ones
Speaker 1: where've got like eighty nine inch by SEPs Us whatever,
Speaker 1: I think it's lovely. And also I'm saying, if you're
Speaker 1: listening to this as a man and you're saying, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm lonely, as go and talk to another fella, ask
Speaker 1: him how he's feeling, talk to him about how you feel,
Speaker 1: don't fucking say I need the wife tube.
Speaker 2: And now I do think, Okay, so again I'm trying.
Speaker 2: I'm I really am keeping central in my vision, thinking
Speaker 2: about the other perspective and being as fair as possible.
Speaker 2: So if I'm a man listening to this podcast and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm lonely, and Ed's advice is go tell
Speaker 2: another man how you're feeling.
Speaker 5: I think that the gap.
Speaker 2: Between where a lot of men exist and being able
Speaker 2: to tell another man how you're feeling is pretty deep.
Speaker 3: I'm going to say something simple.
Speaker 4: It's hard to do.
Speaker 1: If you really can't, email me easy at better offline
Speaker 1: dot com. I'm not fucking kidding. Signal me easier on
Speaker 1: seventy six. If you really want to talk about your
Speaker 1: emotions and you're too scared because your cowardly male friends
Speaker 1: are not in touch with their things, do it. I
Speaker 1: don't care you cry. I cry when I fucking need to.
Speaker 1: I'm fucking you. Solve this by facing the problem by
Speaker 1: doing stuff well.
Speaker 5: We solve this way.
Speaker 1: I have that weight issues, and honestly, you help me.
Speaker 1: Ben turn weightlifting into I lift light now, i'd lift volume.
Speaker 1: It's about completing things, it's about building something rather than
Speaker 1: thrashing my fucking body.
Speaker 4: But I think we need to I think we have
Speaker 4: to start by recognizing that it is difficult for men
Speaker 4: for some reason, that we could get into Me and
Speaker 4: one of my best friends, I've known him for twenty years.
Speaker 4: I see him twice a week at minimum. We're both
Speaker 4: in therapy. We're progressive guys. We care about our emotions.
Speaker 4: He number of years ago, seven years or so, got divorced,
Speaker 4: didn't tell me for a year, you know, christ Like
Speaker 4: we were on a hike and he was finally like,
Speaker 4: I want to let you know, like me and her
Speaker 4: are separated, and I was like, yeah, man, I haven't
Speaker 4: seen her around. I know, but we didn't talk about it.
Speaker 4: Then I went through a big breakup, like a year
Speaker 4: and a half ago, and he's had to come to
Speaker 4: me and occasionally go like, hey, man, how are you doing?
Speaker 4: You know, like we haven't talked lately, and we everything.
Speaker 4: For some reason, we have to remind each other and
Speaker 4: we do it less than we But actually, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4: I think I get that you need to remind.
Speaker 2: The solution there might be ask your friend a question
Speaker 2: that sounds simple. Yeah, that and this is not necessarily
Speaker 2: like how do you tell your friends how you're feeling?
Speaker 2: This likely will open up a conversation. But like your
Speaker 2: friend saying, hey, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: Post breakup?
Speaker 2: Arguably you it's it sounds like you had noticed that
Speaker 2: something had gone weird in his marriage. You hadn't seen
Speaker 2: his wife around for a long time, but it sounds
Speaker 2: like you didn't say, like, how are things with you
Speaker 2: and my wife?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't say anything to him either, and.
Speaker 2: So to me, it's like asking that question, even if
Speaker 2: that feels so like such a steep hill to climb,
Speaker 2: Like I've I've been as a as a woman with feelings.
Speaker 2: I've been in conversations with my girlfriends who I'm super
Speaker 2: super close with where I'm like, god, it is really
Speaker 2: fucking hard to be like anyways, so how is your
Speaker 2: marriage doing?
Speaker 5: Like that?
Speaker 1: That seems like.
Speaker 2: It seems like if the answer is good, then I'm
Speaker 2: like opening suspicion into an area that I don't need
Speaker 2: to be opening suspicion into. If the marriage is bad,
Speaker 2: if she's not telling me, there must be a reason
Speaker 2: she's not telling me. But the answer is actually just
Speaker 2: we are sort of all socialized to not reveal a
Speaker 2: lot of that information. And then women have been permitted
Speaker 2: to be like we have been sort of saddled with
Speaker 2: the their emotional and their dramatic But what that the
Speaker 2: light side of that is that we are permitted to
Speaker 2: express difficult things a little bit more easily.
Speaker 1: And a little bit more Sorry, but we've just stropped
Speaker 1: you in the middle of Now, this is great, but
Speaker 1: it's it's like you, you and I.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think men and Jack are you know,
Speaker 6: we're supposed to be strong, physically strong, mentally strong, spiritually strong,
Speaker 6: all those things. You and I started talking not just
Speaker 6: about fitness, but when you were like, hey, I struggled
Speaker 6: with my weight. Yeah, like I was able to say, like,
Speaker 6: I struggled with my weight too, like, yeah, it's been
Speaker 6: two thousand and nine or so, I lost about seventy pounds.
Speaker 4: I was big.
Speaker 1: So I gave us, which for you is like one
Speaker 1: percent of your body mass, yeah, wund Yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: all muscle.
Speaker 6: Yeah, more more now than he's used to. But that
Speaker 6: gave us an opportunity to like to talk over that,
Speaker 6: and that was like something that we could bond over
Speaker 6: and something we could you know, you're not the only
Speaker 6: person and that we can do. And like, I still
Speaker 6: always feel like the fat kids.
Speaker 3: I was saying, Oh, absolutely feel fat all the time.
Speaker 1: I feel fat right now and it's weird, right, and
Speaker 1: I always do.
Speaker 6: And it's always like ways on me because I was
Speaker 6: a heavy kid and you're my twenties and I didn't
Speaker 6: really turn it around till it's about thirty years old.
Speaker 6: And once you figure that out and you find out
Speaker 6: that other people have gone through the same thing, then
Speaker 6: all of a sudden you can have a very different
Speaker 6: conversation about it. And it's not about lifting to go
Speaker 6: in the mister Olympia, and it's not about trying to
Speaker 6: as set a bench press record. It's really it's about,
Speaker 6: like you know, trying to build yourself up as much
Speaker 6: physically as it is mentally, and other people are trying
Speaker 6: to You're just trying to get through the day. And
Speaker 6: also it's okay.
Speaker 1: I will say in my experience pushing a little further
Speaker 1: on guys being like are you really okay? So a
Speaker 1: lot of guys will open up and be like, I'm not,
Speaker 1: and you have a nice conversation and you'll work. I'm
Speaker 1: The feminization of emotion is disgusting because it's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, the amount of times artcrime and my my
Speaker 1: ole friends and vice versa, and it's felt so much
Speaker 1: fucking better.
Speaker 3: Well, when I've cried in front.
Speaker 1: Of you, client, I've cried close to how we met.
Speaker 3: It is like two days later.
Speaker 1: But it's great and it's good, and it's just it's
Speaker 1: really easy to find other stop gaps, and I want
Speaker 1: to be clear, like these companies are taking advantage of that.
Speaker 1: They're not, because I wanted to say this last episode
Speaker 1: is well, it's like the reason that there is a
Speaker 1: lonely in this epidemic is there are no third spaces,
Speaker 1: there are fewer walkable cities, and these social networking tools
Speaker 1: no longer. It is such a fucking like Dennis Leary's
Speaker 1: doll and a social networking tool don't let you socialize.
Speaker 1: But really though, you don't have a chronological feed of
Speaker 1: the people you want to fucking follow on most platforms,
Speaker 1: there's obstructions between it. There's like random platforms just become racist.
Speaker 4: They're not designed to get people into physical space, with
Speaker 4: the exception of dating apps, which are. But even then,
Speaker 4: like yeah, true, and those are all fucked up and gamified.
Speaker 4: But like you know, what was the name of the
Speaker 4: site from like the late nineties or like meetup, dot
Speaker 4: com or dot org.
Speaker 1: Do you yeah, me, I think they're still around.
Speaker 4: Maybe it was literally designed to it was like sort
Speaker 4: of pre Facebook, designed to be fine stuff to do.
Speaker 3: Meetups.
Speaker 1: Yeah, meetups are so like that as a branded name.
Speaker 4: Okay, well that is the focus of most social networking
Speaker 4: tools in the early days. Totally, there were a lot
Speaker 4: that were like, hey, let's get people to meet up
Speaker 4: in the real world, and now that's the last thing
Speaker 4: Facebook wants you to do.
Speaker 3: Yes, And it's just.
Speaker 1: There are ways that this could be fixed. I don't
Speaker 1: I'm not an inventor, but I don't know the problem
Speaker 1: being that men don't want to talk. That's not something
Speaker 1: that's an analog problem.
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm just saying, like the prescription.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm agreeing.
Speaker 2: I'm agreeing, tangible subscription can be ask your male friend
Speaker 2: a question, any question.
Speaker 1: A question, Yeah, and also ask ask your girlfriend as
Speaker 1: well if you have one questions.
Speaker 2: Asking anyone in your life a questions and actually they
Speaker 2: will love well.
Speaker 4: Really, all I want to add to this is I
Speaker 4: think it needs to start with a recognition that, like,
Speaker 4: in the same way that when I started working out,
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, yeah, everything in my life has
Speaker 4: been telling me to sit on my ass and I
Speaker 4: have to like make an effort to.
Speaker 3: Do it right.
Speaker 4: Well, that's even, but it was a little bit easier
Speaker 4: because yes, men are supposed to be strong, right, Everything
Speaker 4: in men's lives are sort of telling them not to
Speaker 4: open up. It is like a barrier, defensive almost, and
Speaker 4: like you have to like treat it as like this
Speaker 4: is not going to be super easy, Like I have
Speaker 4: to you know, I have to like pry it out
Speaker 4: of myself and out of my mail, which is why, like,
Speaker 4: you know, again, my friend to me was like, we
Speaker 4: need to talk.
Speaker 2: It's been a while, which is exactly why why I'm saying,
Speaker 2: and I'm glad they did, And that's exactly why I'm
Speaker 2: trying to point out the gulf between somebody listening to
Speaker 2: this and going I feel isolated and the the other
Speaker 2: side of that crevasse of like just talk about your
Speaker 2: feelings and that I do think that there's like an
Speaker 2: easy concrete.
Speaker 6: You're intentionally opting into something hard, yes, y right, Like
Speaker 6: that's I mean, and it's it's we are you know,
Speaker 6: to get too metaphysical, but like we're nothing if they
Speaker 6: are not challenges for us to yeah attack and doing.
Speaker 4: Hard things can be rewarded, exactly.
Speaker 6: Right, And like it is no harder to learn how
Speaker 6: to bench press than it is to talk about your feelings.
Speaker 1: These are both hard and with fas as well, I
Speaker 1: had to like push past the thing of like I
Speaker 1: have to be strong. It was this incredibly negative relationship
Speaker 1: I had with my body because I was a fat
Speaker 1: person that didn't f I was a fat, sedentary piece
Speaker 1: of shit. Until I got past that, I could not
Speaker 1: have a body I liked. Until it was about building
Speaker 1: something and recognizing weakness and the fragility of one's body,
Speaker 1: but also the fact that going about it and beating
Speaker 1: the shit out of yourself to become strong is unsustainable
Speaker 1: because it just means that every like a good thing,
Speaker 1: a powerful thing, progressive thing, is inherently progressive. You were
Speaker 1: just hurting yourself. And where is the end point of that?
Speaker 1: How are you gonna go? Oh, I've reached a good point.
Speaker 1: It's just you're a piece of shit if you fall
Speaker 1: below this level. And I fucking thought with that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And there's I mean, especially when it comes out
Speaker 6: like the body dysmorphius stuff and which never stops, right.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's like there's memes and jokes about it.
Speaker 6: Like I've been I've been bodybuilding for five years, Like
Speaker 6: when does the body dys morphia stop?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 6: Oh, well it does it?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 6: It's like you're just getting started, man, like you uh,
Speaker 6: you see the guys even not that I would ever
Speaker 6: advocate for this, but like the guys who are like
Speaker 6: the pro bodybuildings, the wind shows, and they'd be like,
Speaker 6: what are you doing him? He's very famous, like Jay
Speaker 6: Cutler who won Mister Olympia four times. They interviewed him
Speaker 6: after he won and he was They were like, what
Speaker 6: are you gonna do to celebrate? He's well, I gotta
Speaker 6: go to bed early because I got cardio in the morning.
Speaker 6: And it's like, you just won, like you know, the
Speaker 6: World Series of Bodybuilding and he's not taking a day
Speaker 6: off because he was so wrapped into it and so
Speaker 6: like deep into it that it was just like it's
Speaker 6: all he.
Speaker 2: Could think about and like you know, and and there's
Speaker 2: no finished not to be a woman.
Speaker 3: About this, please be at I.
Speaker 2: Just want to state for the record that I I
Speaker 2: love I am so glad that men are talking about
Speaker 2: body dysmorphia and the way that body dysmorphia shows up
Speaker 2: in women is so uh much more socially connected with
Speaker 2: our value like that like I do not I want
Speaker 2: to be like I totally get it. I do totally
Speaker 2: get it, and I get it. I think probably more
Speaker 2: than you might think I do and then just a
Speaker 2: quick shout out for the girls that like. Then it
Speaker 2: is connected to the women are there to be consumed,
Speaker 2: that like the extra layer of value when you feel
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Well, it gets back to the wife tube thing, which
Speaker 1: I'm liking saying that phrase. I guess where it's like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not a overweight woman, it's not a man. It's
Speaker 1: a sexualized presentation of the idealistic woman for the certain
Speaker 1: customer of this thing. Because I am not a woman.
Speaker 1: I experienced body dysmallphee every day, but I'm not like
Speaker 1: me being overweight is not the thing that precluded me
Speaker 1: from being happy. It was how I felt about myself
Speaker 1: to be cleared, like, I want to feel better about myself,
Speaker 1: but my value as a man is not directly affected
Speaker 1: in the exactly way exactly exactly, so when I wanted that,
Speaker 1: it was not keeping me from job opportunities exactly.
Speaker 5: That's what it is.
Speaker 2: It's that, like I think probably the emotional experience of
Speaker 2: body dysmorphia is very very similar in women and men,
Speaker 2: and and even the like men are supposed to be
Speaker 2: strong and so like there is a social value associated
Speaker 2: with that. But it is that when men fall outside
Speaker 2: of what we consider the classically attractive bounds, the way
Speaker 2: that their lives are negatively impacted tend to be much
Speaker 2: more minimal negative impacts than the way that women's lives
Speaker 2: are impacted when they fall.
Speaker 1: Outside of the bounds of class. I would say when
Speaker 1: I was very three hundred and fifty pounds, there was
Speaker 1: definitely a level of like respect I didn't get, but
Speaker 1: it was not like it wasn't to the level where
Speaker 1: women are just fucking completely excluded if they do not
Speaker 1: look like the heteronormative idea of what a woman should
Speaker 1: look like a certain level of thinness and attractiveness and
Speaker 1: make up.
Speaker 3: And all of these.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very it's very different. Yeah, or it's just
Speaker 1: like a whole nother fun Yeah, you get, you get
Speaker 1: like several more layers of.
Speaker 4: I mean, look at the look at the people at
Speaker 4: this conference, and look at the you know, there's people
Speaker 4: who are there's there's men walking around who are not
Speaker 4: fitting conventional, conventional notions of what an attractive man is
Speaker 4: and they're powerful, successful men at this conference, and I
Speaker 4: think you'd have a hard time finding women are in
Speaker 4: the same position. Right, Like we're talking about all the
Speaker 4: other dimensions of you know, uh, of the social value
Speaker 4: and status like so much more connected for women.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and everything goes with women as well as weight
Speaker 1: loss and thinness and certain presentations and minutes about a
Speaker 1: certain level of bigness and the metrics are even different.
Speaker 1: It's just it's I'm glad we're talking about this on
Speaker 1: the show because I know we probably have more men
Speaker 1: listening than we do women. I hope, like I would
Speaker 1: love that not to be the case, But it's about technology.
Speaker 1: What do you fucking think? And it's just like it
Speaker 1: sucks because yeah, there are lonely men, but it's like, yes, sadly,
Speaker 1: you bring this shit to a woman before you fixed it,
Speaker 1: you're now her problem she needs to keep and you're
Speaker 1: gonna have many of these things about your body that
Speaker 1: you transfer onto her. You judge her the same way
Speaker 1: you judge yourself until you can get past that. Even
Speaker 1: the internalized sexual sexism of like how a man and
Speaker 1: a woman are meant to feel. When I was when
Speaker 1: I was heavy, like I had to go through a
Speaker 1: lot of things of just like no one needs to
Speaker 1: look a certain fucking way at all, Like I might
Speaker 1: need to be thin for myself that might be what
Speaker 1: I need to aspire to, but that's no one else's
Speaker 1: fucking job. No one has to look a certain way
Speaker 1: for me or for them, only for themselves, and it
Speaker 1: it sucks. The more I think about these fucking wife tups,
Speaker 1: as funny as it's to say, the more like angry
Speaker 1: I get. Yeah, it's just like reinforcing gender stereotise, but
Speaker 1: also adding a new layer of like woman prison. I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's like it's it's fantasy subjecation.
Speaker 10: Yes, well, and it's it's a technological fake solution to
Speaker 10: a real social problem that is like preying on both
Speaker 10: the customers and the women who are quite represented.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this tube where you had like an anime
Speaker 1: wife you could talk to.
Speaker 3: I probably should have multiple products.
Speaker 6: I disculled it from the conversation. Yeah, yeah, that sounds
Speaker 6: like a terrible idea.
Speaker 1: It's it's a really good band aid on a multitude
Speaker 1: of problems, because I maintain you want to you want
Speaker 1: to actually genuinely go talk to a priest, like I
Speaker 1: don't mean it, even if you're not religious, you just
Speaker 1: fucking maybe you need some spirituality in your life. Maybe
Speaker 1: you need more than just how you look or how
Speaker 1: you feel and trapped in your own head. They'll talk
Speaker 1: to you for a priest will talk to your all
Speaker 1: fucking day. Don't need to be religious. I'm not even joking.
Speaker 1: Like the monk, the the Dominican monk, Fry Gabriel is
Speaker 1: sadly not here, Father Gabriel, pardon me. He talked to
Speaker 1: him for hours. I'm not religious at all. I'm like agnostic.
Speaker 1: Who fucking knows. But it's like the problem is if
Speaker 1: you talk about your problems, then you have to recognize
Speaker 1: your role in them and how they make you feel.
Speaker 1: And when you've never done that, this the sympathy I'll
Speaker 1: give it hurts.
Speaker 5: Well, there's when you've never done that.
Speaker 2: And also when the technology that is in our world
Speaker 2: is so is so effective at like pressing the immediate
Speaker 2: dopamine button, yeah, or right that, we are presented with
Speaker 2: a drug that is more instant and more powerful and
Speaker 2: more replicable than ever.
Speaker 1: In human history.
Speaker 2: And so why would you do something that feels bad
Speaker 2: when you can just do something that feels good right away,
Speaker 2: even if it feels bad on a long scale term
Speaker 2: and long term scale. And you sort of understand that
Speaker 2: inherently yeah, but you can still just do the drug again.
Speaker 5: You can just press the button again. You can just
Speaker 5: feel better again.
Speaker 1: And why wouldn't you? Of course Chinese peptides like it
Speaker 1: really does connect though. No, but we were talking about these
Speaker 1: Chinese peptids yesterday. It's like, yeah, a quick and easy solution.
Speaker 1: To be clear, you used GLP one from a doctor, brilliant. Well, however,
Speaker 1: your weight loss journey happens if that's what you need,
Speaker 1: brilliant Sadly and Ben and I can tell you can
Speaker 1: lose all the weight, be you still gonna feel bad
Speaker 1: about yourself until you solve that. Do you find a
Speaker 1: way to calm out your own self, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: You're gonna be in trouble. When I say this to
Speaker 1: someone who has been in trouble, who has taken years
Speaker 1: to build the internal and external me that I want it.
Speaker 1: And it's like all these fitness things they they don't
Speaker 1: even really try that as well. I think Victorislms make
Speaker 1: the point mobile times that these these numbers, the useless
Speaker 1: numbers who were talking about.
Speaker 2: I said that my theme for cees is numbers you
Speaker 2: don't need.
Speaker 6: It's just like there's no substitute for the work?
Speaker 1: No, right, I mean like that's it, there's no But
Speaker 1: everybody's like, but is this a substitute for the worst?
Speaker 5: Exactly?
Speaker 6: Like we've been trying this for free.
Speaker 5: Yes, twenty twenty six. But is this substitute for the great?
Speaker 6: It's a great uh. I think you and I have
Speaker 6: talked about it. For him, Rollins wrote a great article. Yeah,
Speaker 6: the iron, the iron so yes, amazing were talked about
Speaker 6: like the iron never lies right at the end of
Speaker 6: the day. I forget that. I'm gonna butcher the quote,
Speaker 6: but he wraps it up. I being like, you can
Speaker 6: be the biggest guy in the room and the smallest
Speaker 6: guy in the room. You can have the best body
Speaker 6: or the worst body. You could just gotten married or
Speaker 6: just gotten dumped. You know, you fired from your job,
Speaker 6: promoted at the end of the day, and that two
Speaker 6: hundred pounds is still two hundred pounds. Are either lifted
Speaker 6: or you don't like it. It's the work is there
Speaker 6: to be done. You change the same, like the process
Speaker 6: of lifting heavier or eating better or whatever is like
Speaker 6: the hard is what makes it good. It's not just
Speaker 6: about the aesthetics or about how much weight you can push.
Speaker 6: It's about the the process that you go through, you know,
Speaker 6: and those glp ones like and other peptides like they
Speaker 6: are miracle drugs. They are miracle drugs. And I know
Speaker 6: lots of people who have gone on them. And the
Speaker 6: people who are successful are the people who go on
Speaker 6: them and then also lift the weights and also do
Speaker 6: the cardio, yeah, but also eat better. The people who
Speaker 6: just take them and then kind of like deflate because
Speaker 6: they're not doing anything have horrible metabolic problems because they
Speaker 6: took the shortcut. And you get you get the results
Speaker 6: of the shortcut.
Speaker 1: And you feel still miserable about it. And I say
Speaker 1: this is I've lost. I was three hundred and fifty pounds.
Speaker 1: I dropped to one hundred and thirty pounds when I
Speaker 1: was nineteen, and then went back up to two hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty something by the end of my like the
Speaker 1: midpoint of my thirties, and maybe a buck sixty five.
Speaker 1: Now that last part was the first time it stayed
Speaker 1: like I've stayed consistently this way, not because I've stayed
Speaker 1: consistent with my fits. I've been off for the last
Speaker 1: few months, but because I've been more focused on what
Speaker 1: good feels like than I have on am I fucking
Speaker 1: push and bannishing beaten the fuck. I remember texting my
Speaker 1: friend Touchiana friend at the show, Touchiana, Yeah, my arms
Speaker 1: feel like they're full of broken glass and I was
Speaker 1: happy and she was like, I don't think that's what
Speaker 1: that's meant to feel like, and I was like, yes,
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 3: I'm good.
Speaker 1: She it wasn't a good as it's not long before
Speaker 1: I started talking to you, Ben, And I think it's
Speaker 1: just like, it's really easy to fucking hate yourself for
Speaker 1: bad reasons and then also not really be critical of
Speaker 1: yourself for the good ones, such as I'm fucking up
Speaker 1: my body repeatedly so that I can be sexy for
Speaker 1: a woman.
Speaker 2: And I want to add another a corollary to it's
Speaker 2: really easy to hate yourself. Yes, Also it is really
Speaker 2: easy to justify a fairly nihilist point of view. I
Speaker 2: think now more than ever, I think it's very easy
Speaker 2: to be like nothing matters and we're all gonna die,
Speaker 2: and so why am I?
Speaker 3: Why would I try?
Speaker 2: Or like the world is so fucked up and obviously
Speaker 2: there's no uh like to keep to rationalized to justify
Speaker 2: whatever your repeated choices are and I'm talking to myself
Speaker 2: more than.
Speaker 5: Anybody like I have.
Speaker 1: I have a million of these.
Speaker 2: Ruts and that I get myself into. And I think
Speaker 2: it's very, very easy to justify self destructive choices, particularly
Speaker 2: the mildly self destructive choices, the ones that aren't like
Speaker 2: driving causing you to drive your car into a tree.
Speaker 1: At the end of the night.
Speaker 3: You know, like what then oh, just like eat, like.
Speaker 2: Justifying promising yourself that you'll eat better and then not
Speaker 2: even if it's not to a crazy degree, but it's
Speaker 2: to a degree that keeps you unhealthy in a way,
Speaker 2: or like you know, it's like if you're not getting
Speaker 2: black out drunk every week, but you're like I when
Speaker 2: I drink, I wake up the next morning and I
Speaker 2: feel anxious in a way that cripples me for the
Speaker 2: whole next day. But I'm just gonna have another drink.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna have one more drink with my friends
Speaker 2: tomorrow night or whatever. And it's and again like this
Speaker 2: these are things that I do, These are this is
Speaker 2: my own life.
Speaker 1: This is nobody saw uh Adam just dropped the nihilism thing.
Speaker 6: I mean, like my favorite Jim T shirt that I
Speaker 6: lifted all the time is like the counterpoint to that,
Speaker 6: and it says like we're all gonna die, might as
Speaker 6: well get strong? Yeah, Like I think, is it Pascal's wager?
Speaker 6: Isn't it past right? It's like it's like that, but
Speaker 6: for life, choices exist, Like you might as well act
Speaker 6: as if God exists, because even if he does not exist,
Speaker 6: living in a moral way yourself, I totally agree.
Speaker 5: I'm just saying.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, like, I think a lot of people easily
Speaker 2: fall into a justification where it's not even that they like,
Speaker 2: I think that there's people listening to this who wouldn't
Speaker 2: say I hate myself, who would just say everything is.
Speaker 3: So bah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and the thing.
Speaker 2: Is or or my my jadedness is correct, not even
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter stuff where they're like it could matter,
Speaker 2: but like, look at I think people rationalize.
Speaker 1: I also think it's really easy for guys to in particular,
Speaker 1: and no, I take that back, It's not true. Women
Speaker 1: do this kind of self harm as well. And where
Speaker 1: it's like for the beauty standards of both women and men,
Speaker 1: where it's I need to hurt, the pain is necessary,
Speaker 1: no pain, no gain.
Speaker 3: Actually pain is not brilliant, and with woman it can
Speaker 3: often be.
Speaker 1: I mean, they do the same thing with fitness, but
Speaker 1: like dietary stuff, with a woman, it is much harsher.
Speaker 1: It's like the ways we punish ourselves and they usually fail.
Speaker 3: Like I am generally not.
Speaker 1: In pain when after I woke out, I feel worked,
Speaker 1: but I feel good, And it's like that's the thing
Speaker 1: to look for. But it's really easy because you got
Speaker 1: on Instagram, especially if you like start talking about fitness
Speaker 1: in the DM and Instagram's like, oh, we're not looking,
Speaker 1: but it looks like you need some peptoides. And you
Speaker 1: can get this fucking pressure of these guys who are
Speaker 1: just they're younger than you, stronger than you, they've gone
Speaker 1: through crazier journeys, they've lost more weight, they've done this.
Speaker 1: It's really easy for guys to pretend like this doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: You don't look at another guy's body and you feel inferior.
Speaker 1: It fucking happens, and you're like, if I look like
Speaker 1: that 'll feel better, you probably won't mate. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: women talk about this publicly all the time. Men don't
Speaker 1: want to because it's fucking's gay. Oh you're fucking good Lord,
Speaker 1: the worst thing that could happen to you is that
Speaker 1: you're gay. Jesus Christ. That sounds fun, like who gives
Speaker 1: a shit? You're in love with a man. It sounds nice.
Speaker 1: You're in love with a woman who gives a fuck.
Speaker 1: But it's like this feminization of anything, any kind of
Speaker 1: pain and emotion. Men are just fucking strong.
Speaker 3: Got a wife, you will talk to me out lift
Speaker 3: from all.
Speaker 1: Oh, No, it's nice to have a conversation like this
Speaker 1: in this scenario like this is well a very male
Speaker 1: dominated space and more dominated industry. And it's also scary
Speaker 1: for men to think about this stuff. And it's much
Speaker 1: easier to blame everyone else. Yeah, other men too.
Speaker 6: That being said, I'm gonna try and lift a million
Speaker 6: pounds this year. No, but you do it because it's
Speaker 6: a million pounds of volume, that's the goal.
Speaker 1: No, but that's fucking you're doing that.
Speaker 6: Because I'll get there.
Speaker 3: But you're doing it for fun.
Speaker 6: I'm doing it for fun and because like it is,
Speaker 6: it is a it is a therapeutic thing for me.
Speaker 6: Like the joke of you know, lift heavy rock said, yeah, right,
Speaker 6: but it's like it's it's true, it is a it
Speaker 6: is a great physical thing, it's a great mental thing.
Speaker 6: It's good for my marriage, right, Like I'm a better husband,
Speaker 6: I'm a better father, I'm better professionally because I'm able
Speaker 6: to focus.
Speaker 1: And energetic and you've energetic. Yeah, exactly, and you build something,
Speaker 1: you see the results patching over something exactly right.
Speaker 6: I'm so glad we're talking foundational Adam.
Speaker 1: What do you think about all that? Yeah, sorry, you've
Speaker 1: been quiet this whole time.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we've been podcasting for two hours. I'm I'm
Speaker 4: a little tired. Uh yeah, No, I mean I think that, Uh,
Speaker 4: it's just the trip that I'm on is like, I
Speaker 4: do think that we underrate how much society, like all
Speaker 4: of us together as a society, push men down the
Speaker 4: wrong path on this stuff. And I think at the
Speaker 4: same time as we are saying like, you know, men
Speaker 4: need to step up and like change their attitudes, I
Speaker 4: also think we need to like create space for other men, yes,
Speaker 4: to do these things. That's men and women need to
Speaker 4: do this. Men need to do it, I think with
Speaker 4: each other each other. But it is like, you know,
Speaker 4: a and I think the thing that because there's so
Speaker 4: many elements of this you can talk about sexism and
Speaker 4: patriarchy and stuff affects men and women, and you can
Speaker 4: almost always go it affects women worse. It's true, right, yeah,
Speaker 4: but a deficiency that I think that the reason I'm
Speaker 4: glad we're having this conversation is I think a division
Speaker 4: difficiency at least I think that's unequivocally true, is that
Speaker 4: men talk about it less. I grew up watching just there,
Speaker 4: just the evolving conversation about sexist directed towards women for
Speaker 4: my entire life and like processing it. Oh, we're developing,
Speaker 4: how we're thinking about this, We're trying to address this
Speaker 4: product all still exists, but we're and like we just
Speaker 4: we have never had it for men on a cultural level,
Speaker 4: and when we try a lot of times people go,
Speaker 4: you know, like why you know I talk about this
Speaker 4: on stage sometimes and you know, people come up to
Speaker 4: A woman came up to me and says like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's kind of it's kind of like I want somebody
Speaker 4: think of the men. And I'm like, yeah, kind of,
Speaker 4: it is kind of what somebody think of But the
Speaker 4: thing is I get what she is saying.
Speaker 1: In the it's very very is to full into the
Speaker 1: trope like, oh, poor men, but it's like the actual
Speaker 1: solution is you can say that, but only if the
Speaker 1: answer is talking to other guys, not like and that's
Speaker 1: where women come in and that's how having sex. And
Speaker 1: by the way, I would just say that will not
Speaker 1: solve your image issues. That will not do it. It's
Speaker 1: a fucking band aid too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, adam t to your what you were
Speaker 2: just saying, I think that the solution to uh, there's
Speaker 2: I don't know that there's like a way to really
Speaker 2: solve gender dynamics, you know, fingers, but.
Speaker 1: Like fifteen minutes, we've actually only got five.
Speaker 2: But you know, if I were there listening to the
Speaker 2: woman say, that's kind of a think of the men,
Speaker 2: and your answer is yet it is think of the men.
Speaker 2: That's because the only way that we make any progress
Speaker 2: is with empathy and kindness, yes to the people, to
Speaker 2: every player involved in this in the scenario.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And it's but empathy means empathy requires in respection.
Speaker 3: Sorry I didn't mean still.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, totally. And on that point,
Speaker 1: I'm going to end this two hour long episode. Ben Rudolph,
Speaker 1: where can we find you?
Speaker 6: I'm on X The everything appen well, it's been the
Speaker 6: PC guy.
Speaker 1: It's my wonderful friend Mandall.
Speaker 6: Or you can go to cartographic dot com at c
Speaker 6: A R t O g r A f i q
Speaker 6: dot com because we wanted to make it super hard
Speaker 6: to spell.
Speaker 4: Nice, I can I just ask that a question? Did
Speaker 4: you see one cool thing?
Speaker 3: At the ES?
Speaker 4: We've been talking shit on tech products and men generally.
Speaker 4: Is there anything that you were excited about?
Speaker 6: So I haven't spent that much time around the floor.
Speaker 6: I've been working with my clients. I think there's finally
Speaker 6: some we could do another two hours away. Should we
Speaker 6: get in should we get into like the transition from
Speaker 6: AI hype to like what you can actually do with
Speaker 6: it that actually matters. I have seen some stuff that
Speaker 6: I think it's interesting and fun. I haven't seen anything
Speaker 6: that I'm like, wow, that's going to change my life.
Speaker 6: Like there's a lot of like autonomous like scooters and
Speaker 6: yeah and stuff like that that seem interesting, but I
Speaker 6: don't know if.
Speaker 4: Well that's all I want to know.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Adam. Why don't you do your cool outs
Speaker 1: where you're going to be doing stand up?
Speaker 4: Okay this weekend, h I'm going to be a Madison,
Speaker 4: Wisconsin Next weekend I'll be on Fort Wayne, Indiana. Then
Speaker 4: I'm going to Louisville, Kentucky at the end of January.
Speaker 4: That in early February, will be in Houston, Texas. And
Speaker 4: then I'm taping my new special at the Punchline in
Speaker 4: San Francisco February nineteen through twenty first. Adam conover dot
Speaker 4: net for tickets.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, Chloe, Hi.
Speaker 2: This weekend I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio. Next weekend i am
Speaker 2: in Washington, d C. The week after that, not the
Speaker 2: weekend January twentieth, twenty first, and twenty second, I'm doing
Speaker 2: my solo show called Cheat, which is a completely separate hour.
Speaker 2: It is not the hour of stand up that I
Speaker 2: do on the road. Ed has seen it and loved it.
Speaker 2: In Philadelphia. Cheat in Philadelphia January twenty twenty one, twenty two,
Speaker 2: and then the weekend after that or oh then two
Speaker 2: weekends after that, I'll be in from months at the
Speaker 2: end of it.
Speaker 1: And as we end this show, big shout out to
Speaker 1: the departed a past last year Shan Paul Adams, friend
Speaker 1: of the show, friend of the Suite, Please donate to
Speaker 1: the Pediatric EPILEEPSI Research Consultium in honor of his son,
Speaker 1: who is epileptic. His family would deeply appreciate it. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening. We've gotten other two hours
Speaker 1: for you coming soon. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.
Speaker 11: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song
Speaker 11: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music
Speaker 11: and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T
Speaker 11: T O S O W s ki dot com. You
Speaker 11: can email me at easy at Better offline dot com
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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 9: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For
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Speaker 4: In the home, schools, school