1 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Show you and where we're gonna have a baby together. 2 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: What the hell are you talking about? 3 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I introduced her to the sperm bank or use 4 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 2: Frozer's sperm, and told them to use your sample. 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 3: The procedure has already done and she is gonna be 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 3: prevaty shooting what. 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: I swear to God, if you want my best friend, 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: I would fire you right now. 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 4: I know what you're thinking. What am I listening to? 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 4: So that's a scene from My Boss is My Secret 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 4: Sperm Donor. This is a series with over thirty million 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 4: views online. Welcome to the world of vertical dramas. It's 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 4: basically like a full movie or a TV show, just 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 4: cut up into a bunch of sixty to ninety second 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 4: episodes meant to be watched on your phone. 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: That needs to be a crescendo. Basically, every like forty 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: five second, you have to start a crescendo. 18 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 4: Tig Suddener is a New York based actor who played 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 4: the main character in My Boss Is My Secret Sperm Donor. 20 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 4: He's the guy just now who was threatening to fire someone. 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: Sometimes it is more tactful, and your crescendo might be 22 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: sort of stretched out over maybe two episodes, but in general, 23 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: the format requires you to have a cliffhanger every minute. 24 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 4: A cliffhanger every minute. How do you even do that? 25 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: Honestly, dude, it can be like a crazy look. It 26 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: can be like someone enters a room and the camera 27 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: is like like eight K camera in my face and 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: I'm like what, Like it'll be like dramatic turns in 29 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: the scene. 30 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 4: Tigue is a classically trained actor, but he's recently found 31 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 4: his niche as a main man in the vertical drama space. 32 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 5: You finally welcome La Pila. 33 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: The doctors told me how you've stayed here by my 34 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: side all this time? 35 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 6: I know? 36 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 4: Hard you back Toork. 37 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 6: Thank you. 38 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 4: That was Tigue again playing the role of Elliott in 39 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 4: After Awakening Siblings Strike Back. This is a series with 40 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 4: over a million views. Some of the other shows you 41 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 4: start and have titles like Taming My Billionaire's Ruthless Desire. 42 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 4: There's also My Sister is Not someone to mess with 43 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 4: and the classic after Divorce. I enter my cougar era. 44 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 4: I see a lot of slaps. Also, Yeah, that's definitely one. 45 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 5: Because you're desperate. 46 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 6: Shut up. 47 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 3: I hope you'll give us your blessing. 48 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: I've had rumors and things about how many slaps need 49 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: to be written into scripts and things like that. 50 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 4: Wait, how many slaps need to be written into a script? 51 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 6: Yeah? 52 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, it's one of the numerical metrics that 53 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: they can use in their market sort of analysis. I 54 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: think there's something about when someone sees a slap on 55 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: screen that creates an engagement spike or something. 56 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 4: Maybe this is the first time you're hearing of vertical dramas, 57 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 4: or maybe you've seen an ad for them on TikTok, 58 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 4: but you just never watched a full thing. But some 59 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 4: of these things are getting tens of millions of views. 60 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 4: The industry is worth billions of dollars. So who's making 61 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 4: this stuff and who are those millions of people who 62 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 4: are watching them? And isn't just a matter of time 63 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 4: before we're all watching I'm Afraid Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. 64 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 6: This is. 65 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 4: This is kill switch. I'm DEXORH Thomas. 66 00:03:30,240 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I would by. 67 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 4: So how would you describe vertical dramas to somebody? 68 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: A vertical drama in its current state is a film 69 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: Taylor produced for a vertical screen. It is for prominently phones, 70 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: but it is a film told in one minute to 71 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: two minute episodes across maybe sixty to one hundred episodes. 72 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 4: Vertical dramas first started getting popular in China back in 73 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 4: the early twenty tens. They're now produced in over a 74 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 4: dozen languages, and if anything, the stuff made in English 75 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 4: is kind of late to the party, but the format 76 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 4: has mostly stayed the same as the stuff that was 77 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 4: big in China. 78 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: It's based a lot on Chinese narrative storytelling, and so 79 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the sort of archetypal narrative tropes that 80 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: they use in storytelling in China are how we structure 81 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: the vertical here at the moment, And there's a lot 82 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: of times where the script is a carbon copy of 83 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: a successful vertical that did well in China, and they'll 84 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: just take that and they'll translate everything to English and 85 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: hopefully making sure that it fits. 86 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 4: This is pretty similar to the soap operas or telling 87 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 4: no villas that you'd see in English or Spanish speaking countries. 88 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 4: But if you're familiar with Korean dramas, which were also 89 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 4: popular in China way before they got big in the States, 90 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 4: you're starting to get closer to the cultural vibe here. 91 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 4: So imagine a really emotional, over the top dramatic show, 92 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 4: but strip out most of the slow parts, punch up 93 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 4: the drama, and chop it down so it'll fit on TikTok. 94 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: So things like enemies to lovers, archetypes, so you know, 95 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: two people who hate each other at the start of 96 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: the movie and then slowly fall in love, or an 97 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: archetype where I think I said the lead male is 98 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: constantly coming to heads with the lead female's mother, so 99 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: it's a mother in law trope. There's a lot of 100 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: these sort of tropes. Angry husband who hates his wife 101 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: then realizes he actually needed her more than he thought, 102 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: and he's been a jerk the whole time. So it's 103 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: like these like sweeping archetypes that have been around for 104 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: thousands of years in China and are like very well 105 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: proven in Chinese culture to carry narrative well. And it's 106 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: a process now of seeing how well they do and 107 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: how to tailor those narratives or alter things a little 108 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: here in the West to keep it as strong here 109 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: as it is in China. 110 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 4: What was your reaction when you first got your first gig? 111 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 4: Did you know that these things existed? 112 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 6: No? 113 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: No, I needed my rampaid. 114 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 115 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: I came over in twenty eighteen to study theater and 116 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: graduated in May twenty twenty four, and then was like 117 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: spamming out applications and submissions on all the different actors' 118 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: sites that they sort of half teach you how to 119 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: use at acting school. And one guy got back to 120 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: me because someone on his project had pulled out. It 121 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: was a project called Glory of Revenge, which is as 122 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: of yet unreleased. I had a quick phone call with 123 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: him a couple days later. I was out in Burninghand, Pennsylvania, 124 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: which is like deep Amish country and we're like in 125 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. I remember calling my mom and 126 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: having to like convince her that it wasn't pornography. I 127 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: think she was quite concerned about what these were. But 128 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: that was kind of my introduction to verticals. 129 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 6: Wow. 130 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 4: Wow, So, I mean you get on set, your train 131 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,559 Speaker 4: in theater, you get handed this script. 132 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: I mean, what is this like a bit overwhelming to 133 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: be honest, because we've got seven days. So, like, the 134 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: way that they filmed them is they hired two AIRBMB 135 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: mansions out in Pennsylvania. They took a crew of maybe 136 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: ten of us. That's crew and cast. We all stayed 137 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: in the mansion as well because it was an Airbnb 138 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: and it saves on accommodation and stuff. So we're sleeping 139 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: on the set. We're living and breathing in the set 140 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: all week. It was I think a seven day shoot 141 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: and it's twelve hour days, so. 142 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 4: It was a lot. It was a lot. How many 143 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 4: of these vertical dramas have you've done so far? 144 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 6: Eleven? 145 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 4: Eleven? Wow? 146 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a draw full of crazy scripts. Man, 147 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: they're so good for Christmas gifts to give them the 148 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: people you drink you read the lines. 149 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 4: That's so good. 150 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 6: She's bleeding out. 151 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 3: Someone needs to decide now. 152 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: She won't make it without a transfusion. Her sister is 153 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: the only match. She's given blood for you dozens of times. 154 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: Why can't you save her this once? 155 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 4: Shut up? 156 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 5: Pross too fragile to donate. 157 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, what if something happens to you, you idiot. We're 158 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 4: not risking that. 159 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:20,559 Speaker 5: But what about Bella? 160 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 6: She's your daughter too. 161 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: If she dies, she dies. 162 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 4: This is probably where I should admit that this stuff 163 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 4: is not for me. But it does make me wonder 164 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 4: why these over the top romance soap operas are the 165 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 4: thing that everyone is making. Tigu's got a theory about this. 166 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: I think they're a brilliant medium to gain large numbers 167 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: of viewers fast, and the viewers are invested, they care. 168 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: The viewers are emotionally invested and engaged in new content, 169 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,599 Speaker 1: engaged in storylines. They're fully locked into this now in 170 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: a way that maybe other genres don't have that same pull. 171 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: And then I think that's been the genius way to 172 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: sort of build the structure and the scaffolding of the 173 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: business model. And now I think the last evaluation of 174 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: the space, based on still just this first phase of 175 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: verticals here in the West is about five point five 176 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: billion dollars I think, wow, which is an insane amount 177 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: of money. 178 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, but who's making that money. Well, it's a 179 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 4: bunch of different companies. Each company has an app where 180 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 4: you can watch their specific shows. So if you want 181 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 4: to watch a particular show, say one made by one 182 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 4: of the big companies called Real Short, you have to 183 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 4: download the Real Short app. But another show might be 184 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 4: made by another company, say Drama Box, and if you 185 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 4: want to watch that, you have to download the drama 186 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 4: Box app, and so on. 187 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 5: So most of the original apps that have come over 188 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 5: a Chinese owned apps, and they're coming from tech companies, 189 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 5: so they're not coming from traditional TV and media. They're 190 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 5: coming from a tech company that's set up an app 191 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 5: that is then making these looking at all the data. 192 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 5: So everything is about data analytics and it's like this works, 193 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 5: We'll do. 194 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: More of this. 195 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 4: If you get really into vertical dramas, then at some 196 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 4: point you're going to run into Jen Cooper. She's got 197 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 4: to be one of the most well known English language 198 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 4: vertical drama fans. She's got a website where she writes 199 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 4: reviews of new verticals that have come out, She gives recommendations, 200 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 4: and she does some other stuff too, which we'll get 201 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 4: to later. She only discovered verticals last year, which in 202 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 4: this space still means she's a veteran and she's seen 203 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 4: things change a lot. 204 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 5: Everyone suddenly realized these things are making so much money, 205 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 5: and obviously the money is all going back to the 206 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 5: tech companies in China, so everyone's like, well, we need 207 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 5: a piece of this. So we've gone from the beginning 208 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 5: of the year of being one of two other apps 209 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 5: to now it's exploding everywhere. 210 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: You know. 211 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 5: There's Turkish apps as career apps. The UK is putting 212 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 5: together apps that will be out to their apps that 213 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 5: are going to be available in America. 214 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 4: One of the first apps to try to bring vertical 215 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 4: dramas to an audience in the US was real Short. 216 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 4: Real Short was launched in twenty twenty two, and it's 217 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 4: kind of like TikTok in that it's an America based company, 218 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 4: but it's created and backed by a Chinese company. In 219 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, their app actually overtook TikTok for the 220 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 4: number one spot in the entertainment section of Apple's App 221 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 4: Store in the US. Two years from launch to number 222 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 4: one is really fast, and so of course, since then 223 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 4: dozens of apps like real Short have also popped up 224 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 4: in the app stores. 225 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 5: So I have about forty on my phone. 226 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, four zero, Yes, okay, I didn't know there 227 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 4: were that many. 228 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 5: Forty forty is nothing. They are well over one hundred, 229 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 5: and there are new ones setting up every day. 230 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 4: So if you were annoyed at having to pay for 231 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 4: Paramount Plus and Netflix and Hulu and having a switch 232 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 4: between all those, imagine that just times ten. But how 233 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 4: do you get this into vertical dramas well? Jen is 234 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 4: really into rom coms, or she was, but she says 235 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 4: she kind of found herself watching the same old stuff 236 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 4: because Hollywood wasn't making anything new that she was interested in. 237 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 4: And she's probably precisely who vertical drama apps were looking for. 238 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 5: So I came to them the same way most people do, 239 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 5: which is via either TikTok, Instagram or Facebook ad. So 240 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,599 Speaker 5: when I was scrolling through TikTok, ad popped up, I 241 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 5: was like, what's this And I kind of recognized it 242 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 5: because I had watched some Chinese and Korean dramas and 243 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 5: I kind of know that storyline. But that's interesting that 244 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 5: they're doing it with a Western cast clearly based in 245 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 5: the West. Started watching, and then I haven't really gone 246 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 5: back since. 247 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 4: Jen got hooked in a way that doesn't really happen 248 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 4: for her with say a Netflix show. This is a 249 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 4: fundamentally different kind of entertainment. 250 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 5: It's massively a dopamine hit, so it is engineered to 251 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 5: deliver that even just the way that the episode's structured 252 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 5: of it's like adrenaline. So it's very very fast paced. 253 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 5: It's kind of high states high drama. This outrageous, this happens, 254 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 5: This happens, and so because it moves very fast and 255 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 5: you kind of know pretty much most of them, they'll 256 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 5: be a happy ending. It's giving you that kind of 257 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 5: hit of feel good. This is delivered, but then it's 258 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 5: also complete and I move on with my life. That 259 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 5: is I think the crux of why it is so popular. 260 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 4: Let's talk about this dopamine thing real quick. So TikTok 261 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 4: videos thrive on this. You watch a funny one minute 262 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 4: clip and that makes you feel good, so you swipe 263 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 4: to the next one looking for more. Now that clip 264 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 4: might make you feel sad or even angry, but for 265 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 4: a minute, you feel something, swipe to the next one. 266 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 4: It's a constant stream of content that prings that part 267 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 4: of your brain that craves an immediate reward but also 268 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 4: craves novelty. But novelty is kind of a risky way 269 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 4: to run an app, see with TikTok. With Instagram. As 270 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 4: good as those algorithms are, it'll occasionally show you something 271 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 4: that you personally find boring enough to snap out of 272 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 4: it and put your phone down. Good for you, not 273 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 4: good for the app. This is a market problem that 274 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 4: vertical dramas theoretically can fix. TikTok has kind of sporadic novelty. 275 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 4: Vertical dramas have controlled novelty. Once you're locked in, every 276 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 4: cliffhanger leads to the next cliff. Nothing's left to chance. 277 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 4: It's a slick, curated format and there are a bunch 278 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 4: of subgenres to get you locked in. 279 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 5: There's definitely a massive subgenre of werewolf romances, and it 280 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 5: is werewolf's done in a very specific way, and not 281 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 5: like you know, American werewolf in londonal Tea Wolf. It's 282 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 5: much more coming from romance novels. 283 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: You took something that didn't belong to you, and now 284 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 2: who you're gonna pay. It's just so unfortunate we have 285 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: to ruin that pretty base of yours. 286 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 3: So hold on, hold on, Sorry, your brain's gonna explode that. 287 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 3: I can see this now that you're mentioning it. I've 288 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: noticed this. The billionaire stuff cool, the cheating spouse, got 289 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 3: it understood. I'm not sure I can come up with 290 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 3: an internal explanation for why werewolf, But now that you've 291 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 3: brought it up, why were wolves? 292 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 5: Because the law that they follow is that you have 293 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 5: a fated mate, so you have someone you are meant for. 294 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 5: I think that's the appeal in that it's someone out 295 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 5: there basically going you two are meant to be together, 296 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 5: and that's just fate. Also, just some actors are great 297 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 5: at it and are quite willing to basically growl a 298 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 5: bit and be very entertain on screen. I'm not a 299 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 5: massive fan myself, but yeah, they're very, very popular. 300 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 4: Okay, so now you know why there's so many werewolf stories. 301 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 4: But who's watching this stuff? And how is it making 302 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 4: enough money to be a billion dollar industry? That's after 303 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 4: the break. Maybe the billion dollar industry part tipped you off. 304 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 4: But vertical dramas aren't free, at least none. If you 305 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 4: want to watch a full series, the app. 306 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 5: Will probably give you about the first ten episodes for free. 307 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 5: With the idea, you immediately get sucked into the story. 308 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 5: You get hooked. You want to know what happens next. 309 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 5: Then you come up against the paywall, and then that's 310 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 5: the key. Are you hooked enough that you want to 311 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 5: know what happens that you give the money to get 312 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 5: past the payball. They do a very good job because 313 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 5: a lot of us do that. 314 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 4: And once you're willing to put down some money to 315 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 4: get past the paywall, you have two options. Pay per 316 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 4: episode or pay for a subscription. 317 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 5: The new person, the naive person, will then buy coins. 318 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 5: So it works quite like if you think about a 319 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 5: gaming app, so you buy a bundle of coins to 320 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 5: unlock a certain amount of episodes. That is an incredibly 321 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 5: expensive way of doing it. So if you do that, 322 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 5: you stare bankruptcy in the face and kind of buyer's reborse. 323 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: But if you get. 324 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 5: Savvy, what you do it's like you look for a 325 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 5: weekly subscription, monthly subscription, and what that does is that 326 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 5: unlocks every show on that app platform that you can 327 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 5: then watch. It's still a more expensive way to consume 328 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 5: the media, but it's much more cost effective. 329 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 4: But even still, a subscription can cost up to twenty 330 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 4: dollars a week. That's for one app, and remember there 331 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 4: are a lot of these apps. 332 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 5: I think people are easily spending two hundred dollars plus 333 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 5: a month of this, and it's probably quite a lot 334 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 5: more because I think everyone rounds down because they don't 335 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 5: want admit what they're spending. 336 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 4: How much money when you spend it when you were 337 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 4: first watching these things? 338 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 5: Can I decline decline the question because my husband might 339 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 5: listen to this that bad really yeah, it was a bit, 340 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 5: But I think what happens is in the middle of 341 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 5: the night, if you're having a pretty rough life and 342 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 5: there's something that you think will deliver a dopamine here 343 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 5: and give you escapees of people pay for it. 344 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 4: People will pay for it, and the numbers are pretty good. 345 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 4: So let's talk about costs. The Washington Post reported that 346 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 4: an entire vertical series usually costs under two hundred and 347 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 4: fifty thousand dollars to make. Compare that to TV, which 348 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 4: can cost millions of dollars per episode. And if you 349 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 4: want to talk about revenue, this year, films are averaging 350 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 4: about thirteen million dollars a box for sales. One vertical 351 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 4: app is saying that they have shows which again are 352 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 4: way cheaper to make than TV shows or movies that 353 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 4: do those numbers. And more so, the math is pretty good, 354 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 4: but who's paying. One of the really interesting things for 355 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 4: this is that clearly this is a new developing wave 356 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 4: of using technology, shall we say, usually the people who 357 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 4: are on the front end of that are kids, video 358 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 4: games and even online games. Right it was kids. This 359 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 4: is not kids who are at the forefront of this. 360 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 4: Why do you think that is? 361 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 5: I think this is the thing that's fascinating. So I 362 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 5: know that when they started making these vertical dramas, they 363 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 5: were targeting the YA audience, so they thought it would 364 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 5: be that kind of teen early twenties. But actually, at 365 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 5: the moment, the main consumer of them are probably people 366 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 5: who I'm exactly like, women in their thirties to sixties seventies. 367 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 5: There's actually slightly older women, people who would be real romances. 368 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 5: That is who's mainly watching them. The content at the 369 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 5: moment is pretty much romance. 370 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 4: And whatever they've stumbled upon is working. Jen says that 371 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 4: for a lot of fans, verticals is their new main 372 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 4: media diet. It's completely replaced Netflix, Hulu and everything else 373 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 4: for them. 374 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 5: I don't watch much mainstream media now, which I think 375 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 5: is the thing that people find surprising because they think 376 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 5: it sits alongside are the consumption, and I really don't 377 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 5: watch much. The only reason we still have Netflix is 378 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 5: because my teen's revolted. I would have got rid of it. 379 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 5: We must have access to this and this. It's like, okay, fine, 380 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 5: you need to watch Wednesday. We'll have Netflix. 381 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 4: After getting really hooked on vertical dramas, Jen tried looking 382 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 4: up more about them online, only to find that there 383 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 4: wasn't a whole lot of information available about this stuff 384 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 4: in English. So she decided to do something about it. Now, 385 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 4: when I say that Jen is very well known in 386 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 4: the vertical drama space, I meant it. Not only does 387 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 4: she have a website called Vertical Drama Love, which has reviews, 388 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 4: interviews with actors, and just all sorts of other information. 389 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 4: She decided to put together an entire online festival called Vertfest. 390 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 5: We did a two day festival of vertical dramas and 391 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 5: I really wanted to make it global. So the idea 392 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 5: was because it was online, no one needed to pay travel. 393 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 5: You know, you could attend for whether you are in 394 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 5: the world, and also try and represent the world. So 395 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 5: we had a mix of panels, virtual drama stars, and 396 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 5: we tried to make it clicb thats we have people 397 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 5: from the UK Vertical drama is huge in the Ukraine, 398 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 5: so we have people from the Ukrainian industry. We had 399 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 5: people from Australia, we had Canada, and we had lots 400 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 5: of American ones because the Americans tend to just they 401 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 5: do make the most. So we were able to do 402 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,959 Speaker 5: online meet greets where you as a fan could then 403 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 5: pay extra to have a conversation with your favorite start 404 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 5: and that was really popped on both sides, One for 405 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 5: a fan to be able to talk to the star, 406 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 5: two for the star because they're like, they're really aware 407 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 5: that we all as fans pay a lot and basically 408 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 5: bankroll their jobs. They know that the money is coming 409 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 5: from us, and so I think that's partly why they're 410 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 5: quite so happy to engage. 411 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 4: Jen not On. They made a source of information about 412 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 4: vertical dramas, but Vertfest helped make a community for fans 413 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 4: that didn't really have anyone else to talk to about 414 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 4: their favorite shows. 415 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 5: The initial thing that brings them in is they don't 416 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 5: have anyone else in their day to day life to 417 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 5: talk to you about these things. I would say a 418 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 5: lot of the viewers are often dealing with really hard 419 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 5: stuff in their life. You've got people with serious illnesses, 420 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 5: who are caring for relatives, gone through big traumas and griefs. 421 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 5: There's quite a lot of people who like, this is 422 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 5: the first time I smiled since my child died or 423 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 5: something like that watching vertical drama. So people have gone 424 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 5: through truly awful things, and I think they come to 425 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 5: talk to initially about the vertical dramas, but then we'll 426 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 5: stay because there's just friendships. And it's the thing for 427 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 5: me is it's made the world feel a lot more 428 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 5: close together because it's felt so divided. But with this, 429 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 5: it's like I have good friends in Brazil and in 430 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 5: Germany and Australia and New York and Canada, and you 431 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 5: realize the commonality of your experience. You know, it turns 432 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 5: out whether you've got a teenager in the UK or 433 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 5: teenager in Brazil, they. 434 00:21:58,560 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 4: Hog the bathroom. 435 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 5: You know, that's just what happens. So I think that's 436 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 5: why a lot of people have stayed. 437 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 4: Jen also launched the first awards program for the genre, 438 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 4: which she called the Vertical Drama Love Fan Awards. She 439 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 4: didn't really know what to expect when she announced it, 440 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 4: but a lot of people participated. Sixteen thousand votes came 441 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 4: in from around the world. 442 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 5: It was just crazy. It's like, it's just be it 443 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 5: my kitchen table. But why not. I'm going to do 444 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 5: the awards again next year. I need to slightly elevate 445 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 5: it for the kitchen table, so working on that club. 446 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 5: But yeah, I was just like, well why not? And 447 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 5: then people voted, and I think it was that thing 448 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 5: of someone taking what people were doing seriously. 449 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 4: And one of the winners of the awards Tigue Sadner. 450 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: So I was lucky enough to win the Rising Star 451 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: Award in that which was one of the two major 452 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: awards in the whole festival, which was great. I got 453 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: thousands of votes internationally and what we saw from that 454 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: was a huge swing from Kazakhstan of all places, and 455 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: the Philippines and India. 456 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 4: This growing international community. It feels like they're connected to 457 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,959 Speaker 4: actors in a different way from traditional movie or TV stars. 458 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 4: There's something about the medium that feels that they can 459 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 4: have a more intimate and more parasocial connection. 460 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: There's something very cool about its sort of cultural alignment 461 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: with social media. And then it does feel like a 462 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: very personal thing that's driven so much fan support and 463 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: sort of furvor in the fan space because how connected 464 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: people feel to it. Hollywood feels quite big, alien, mechanical, 465 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: and that's somewhat what people admire is it's this machine, 466 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: this is different. 467 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 4: After only a few years, vertical dramas have started to 468 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 4: eat into viewership of TV and movies. So what could 469 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 4: that mean for Hollywood and could we start to consider 470 00:23:52,119 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 4: this stuff art. That's after the break. You might remember 471 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 4: years ago when people who were complaining about how expensive 472 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 4: TV was finally had a different option. The people who 473 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 4: stopped watching TV and went over to Netflix or Hulu, 474 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 4: they called us cord cutters, and it felt like TV 475 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 4: was dying and there was something new coming out. And 476 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 4: now the streamers seem to be stagnating like everything else 477 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 4: in traditional media, and verticals are only getting bigger, so 478 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 4: naturally those legacy film and TV companies are trying to 479 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 4: get in on the action. 480 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 5: It is really exciting that basically pretty much every big 481 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 5: name in studio you can think of is looking but 482 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 5: virtual goal dramas. They might not say it publicly, they 483 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 5: are all looking. There's a lot of big names. We 484 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 5: went from last year there was one Rolling Stone article 485 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 5: and that was it, and now there's been a snowball 486 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 5: oppressed since that first article that I've got. So it 487 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 5: went from that in the UK to be you know, 488 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 5: there's been a bit of a segment on the news 489 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 5: here now on the TV news, and it's happened to 490 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 5: What's America And it's. 491 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 7: Slimmed down well for the TikTok generation. It's one of 492 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 7: thousands of so called vertical dramas made for viewing on phones, 493 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 7: a format exploding in popularity across East Asia and in 494 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 7: the US. 495 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 5: So it's beginning to reach a little bit more of 496 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 5: a tipping point that people are becoming aware of these things. 497 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 4: Jen would know about this. She's gone from superfan to 498 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 4: online festival organizer to being a consultant in this industry 499 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 4: that again is only a few years old, and not 500 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 4: all media companies are talking publicly about their interest in verticals, 501 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 4: but they're starting to back in August, Disney announced the 502 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 4: newest additions to the Disney Accelerator, basically this program where 503 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 4: they invest in something they think is promising and could 504 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 4: make money. Out of thousands of applicants, they picked four companies. 505 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 4: First up is some AI animation software, and then there's 506 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 4: an AI three D printing manufacturer. There's some holographic display 507 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 4: tech startup, and also Drama Box, a vertical drama app 508 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 4: whose homepage, as I'm recording this shows titles like fake Dating, 509 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 4: My Rich Nemesis, and Mate It with My Fiance's Alpha Daddy. 510 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 5: So they're now partnered with Disney, which is really exciting 511 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 5: because it means they get access toward Disney's resources and 512 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 5: mentorship and the kudoss Disney gets to safely look at 513 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 5: vertical dramas without actually really investing anything. But Drama Box 514 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 5: went on a big recruitment drive earlier this year, hired 515 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 5: a lot of American writers, and that content is now 516 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 5: coming through, and that content is very, very good. 517 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 4: The turnaround time to make these dramas also makes them 518 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 4: easier and cheaper to just keep cranking out. They have 519 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 4: timelines that would be absolutely impossible for a traditional studio. 520 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,719 Speaker 1: I had a really cool conversation actually with an investment 521 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: team based out of the UK who put a lot 522 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: of money into West End and Broadway shows, and he 523 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: said the most attractive thing from him as an investor 524 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: is the turnaround. Financially, you can read coep your money 525 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: within a couple months. Even in major theater it might 526 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: take you week thirty six and a huge amount of 527 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: risk before you can get your money back, whereas this 528 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: it's two months if you play it right. 529 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 4: But if verticals are really going to go mainstream, some 530 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 4: things that work right now might have to change. 531 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 5: The titles are horrific. Okay, there is no other word 532 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 5: for it. So the problem you have is that, again 533 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 5: a lot of the apps you are not coming from 534 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 5: an interest in the quality of filmmaking. This is the apps, 535 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 5: not anyone involved in making it, but the apps. In morality, 536 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 5: it is basically about what will make us the most money. 537 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 5: So therefore the titles are getting more and more apporting, 538 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 5: and it is clickbait. There is no consideration that as 539 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 5: an actor you might not want certain of these titles 540 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 5: on your IMDb because people will look at them and 541 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 5: think you're doing soft pat It's. 542 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 4: Not just the titles. The content is probably a bigger 543 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 4: factor here. Tigue's breakout role was in a series called 544 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 4: Hurt Me, Love Me. This is a vertical that was 545 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 4: released in twenty twenty four on Drama Box that app 546 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 4: I just mentioned earlier. In that series, Tigue plays a 547 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 4: bad husband who eventually realizes the error of his ways 548 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 4: and sees the light and becomes a better husband. Okay, 549 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 4: bad husband is kind of under selling it. He was 550 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 4: physically violent toward his wife. 551 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 6: Who the hell are you so on? 552 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: You text me to come back for one to parade 553 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: another man a stranger in front of me in my 554 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: own house? 555 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 6: Is that right? How long have you tuben together, I 556 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 6: would not get that hell out of my house. 557 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: No, it was really hard, man. That was like my 558 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: second I think, And it was hard because the narrative 559 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: was so difficult to deal with. The basic idea is 560 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: like my wife and the piece is mute from like 561 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: an emotional damage injury and my character. Where I got 562 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: to eventually was that my character feels cornered and manipulated 563 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: by everyone in his life, and it makes him a 564 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: kind of horrible character to be perfectly honest. And I 565 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: really hit my head against that for a long time. 566 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: And also we got a lot of responses with people 567 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: who are uncomfortable about it. We got a lot of 568 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: sponsors also from people who loved it. I still to 569 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: this day get a lot of messages from India and 570 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: the Philippines about that character specifically. There's something resonated in that. 571 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 4: What do people say just that they loved it? 572 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: I think like a lot of people feel like they 573 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: really got I guess his sense of being cornered. It's 574 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: that cornered animal thing, which I don't necessarily personally, like 575 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: philosophically think that that excuses someone's actions, but it did. 576 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: I guess to these guys attract them to the character. 577 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 4: What was the process going from a stage play, you know, 578 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 4: sort of the easily understandable path for a theater student 579 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,239 Speaker 4: to be doing what you're doing now. 580 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: Honestly, awesome question, because it's a big difference. My first 581 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: script on my first vertical set, like was color coded, 582 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: all labeled, like. I did the whole drama school nerd thing, 583 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,239 Speaker 1: which you need to do when you're operating with high art, 584 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: because I think it does help you sort of get 585 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: a grip of what this person's piece of work is 586 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: that you're contributing to by playing one of their characters. 587 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: If you kind of understand the piece and pull it apart, 588 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: that level of detail isn't needed at all on verticals. 589 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: It can be, and it hopefully will be as we 590 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: sophisticate the space and the products, but for the most part, 591 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: that's something quite specific to the depth of theater or 592 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: major feature films that are meticulously written and produced for 593 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:33,479 Speaker 1: a high art approach. 594 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 4: So I mentioned to a few friends who work in 595 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 4: Hollywood work in the TV industry that I was working 596 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 4: on this episode about vertical dramas, and the response was 597 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 4: not very good. Overall, what people were telling me was 598 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 4: they really don't want to touch this stuff. That to them, 599 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 4: the stories are over sexualized, they're cheesy. And more than 600 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,239 Speaker 4: one person told me that the scripts that they've been 601 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 4: handed looked like AI. Not that they were AI translated 602 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 4: from some other language, but just straight up to them, 603 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 4: it looked like chat GPT. To some people, even being 604 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 4: associated with vertical dramas feels risky for their career. 605 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 6: How dare you. 606 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 4: Make a scene, especially in front of the Kaplan heiress. 607 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 4: Her family donated millions to the school, and I will 608 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 4: not have you jeopardize that or bully her. 609 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,479 Speaker 6: I was not bullying her. 610 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: I was asking questions. 611 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 4: Act up again, and I will make sure you get expelled. 612 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: But sir, she is not Miss Kaplan because I am 613 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: Haley Kaplan. 614 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 4: I mean, it's like everything is there, the money, the accessibility, 615 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 4: the audience, everything. But I would argue, at this stage, 616 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 4: the prestige is there. 617 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say that's mistake. Yeah, definitely, the prestige. 618 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 5: I think that will come as the quality improves, maybe 619 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 5: another year. So in my head where I think it 620 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 5: will go and it will sit is it will be 621 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 5: another form of media that people consume, So it will 622 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 5: sit alongside cinemona, it will sit alongside TV, and they'll 623 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 5: have verticals. So in the way that Meryl Street now 624 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 5: would do TV as well as cinema, I think you 625 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 5: will potentially see people move through. So a few of 626 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 5: the actors who've made their name in the space have 627 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 5: now been cast in TV and cinema stuff. I know 628 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 5: of people in those spaces who are looking at vertical dramas. 629 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 5: So it's kind of that like splintering. I think of 630 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 5: how people can see more media. You know, some people 631 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 5: are mainly on Twitch with gaming, some people are more 632 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 5: on YouTube, but it's just adding another avenue to that. 633 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 4: And this is the other side of it. If you're 634 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 4: thinking from an up and coming actors perspective, if you're 635 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 4: looking for a role on a casting website, ads for 636 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 4: vertical dramas can make up half the listenings you're going 637 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 4: to see. Verticals are some of the only things hiring. 638 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 4: And look, if you need a gig, you need a gig. 639 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 4: But just throwing money at stuff isn't sustainable for any 640 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 4: art forum. So again, how do you attract talent into 641 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 4: a medium that a lot of people look down on. 642 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: I think what we're trying to figure out now is 643 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: what does prestige mean in this space? What is for instance, 644 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: a prem vertical and how can we supply premium verticals 645 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,239 Speaker 1: into the space, which I think is what we need 646 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: to do. So I did one four Real Shorts, big 647 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: company in the space that now sits at thirty point 648 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: five million views, that did really really well commercially, and 649 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: that also was like featured on I think The gut 650 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: Field Show on Fox and things like that, like it 651 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: ran up some breasts here and there, like again, he 652 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: was making fun of it because it's that's his mo 653 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: o heets have a plan for our short attention span. 654 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 8: Silicon Valley based Real Short is producing sexy, steamy episodes 655 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 8: of original content, think of old pornography, but without the 656 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 8: actual porn. Titles include Pregnant and Spoiled by the Billionaire 657 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 8: Dilfs and Joe You'll. 658 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 4: Like this one. My Boss is my secret sperm donor. 659 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: I played the boss, So I think that got a 660 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: lot of attention. 661 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, what does it feel like when you see people 662 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 4: making fun of your stuff? 663 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: It's really hot out here and I'm making a living 664 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: and building a foundation of a career that has space 665 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: for me to expand and grow and develop and bring 666 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: my people in with me. So like, I'm not too 667 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 1: bothered about it. Like I do see validity in people 668 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: being quite skeptical of these and quite skeptical of the 669 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: business model that creates these as well. 670 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 4: I get it. 671 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,760 Speaker 1: I definitely get it. Bro There's just so much potential. 672 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: I'm not too worried about it. Really. 673 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 4: That's what I so interesting about how you're approaching this, 674 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 4: man is because you're kind of out here. You're not 675 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 4: just acting in these things and then catching the check 676 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 4: and dipping. You're kind of evangelizing for a format. 677 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I wouldn't put it all on myself either. 678 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: So the fact the way that the fans have communicated 679 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: kind of from the outset has been feedback, has been commentary, 680 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: which I think is healthy. I think if we can 681 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: have good dialogue and discourse about what we're consuming, I 682 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: think we can then improve in upscale. 683 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 4: Something we always see from these newer formats is the 684 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 4: struggling with the question is this art are verticals there yet? 685 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 4: Our verticals are going to come up against that question 686 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 4: are they already there? 687 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 5: I think they are going to have that question. But 688 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 5: then there's also what is art, and it's kind of 689 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 5: art reflects what people need during the times that they 690 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 5: live in, and the times that we live in now 691 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 5: are pretty grim. Everyone agrees it feels worse. People want escapism, 692 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 5: and that's what verticals de liver. So, yes, it probably 693 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 5: is art for the masses rather than art for the hierarchy. 694 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 5: It's dopa mean for the masses. But that's what people 695 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 5: want and that's what people need. So the main thing 696 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 5: that people come to vertical dramas is I need something 697 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 5: that instantly transports me out of my life and means 698 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 5: i can switch off for an hour and a half 699 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 5: and I'm not thinking about my day to day challenges. 700 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 5: I've got that, I've got a dopamine hit, I move 701 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 5: on bonuses that I'm now part of a nice community 702 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 5: and I've made friends around the world. But that is 703 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 5: why people are there. But my understanding is things like 704 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 5: often that classic good over evil story comes up as 705 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 5: something people would see in art when life is hard, 706 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 5: so like during World War Two. That's when like Captain 707 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 5: America right, And again a lot of the verticals, particularly 708 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 5: the more traditional ones, is good people overcoming the terrible relatives, 709 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 5: terrible whoever they get their comeupance, they get the happier 710 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 5: for after verticals, there are proper bad guys who'd get defeated, 711 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 5: and people. 712 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 4: Need to see that real life's not always as simple, 713 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 4: but the verticals can be exactly. 714 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 5: One hundred percent. They make this wonderful simplicity that we 715 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 5: will wish we could live in day to day. 716 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 4: You know, I'm kind of noticing a theme recently, so 717 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 4: the VTubers episode, which again is a bunch of people 718 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 4: who go to these massive concerts to watch a pretend 719 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 4: anime girl on stage, or the Low Fi episode where 720 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 4: we talked about how much a genre means to people 721 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 4: even if a lot of the listeners just have it 722 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 4: on in the background. And then there's this one, and 723 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 4: again I promise we didn't plan this ahead of time, 724 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 4: but I'm seeing this need that people have for something 725 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 4: that can bring together, even if or maybe especially if 726 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 4: other people don't understand it, because I think when you 727 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 4: find something like that that means that much to you, 728 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 4: of course you want it to get better. With Low five, 729 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 4: maybe it's a little late, but with verticals, the fans 730 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 4: saying what they want and what they don't want is 731 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 4: actually helping people like Tige have more clout to push 732 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 4: the industry in the direction that he wants to go 733 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 4: while it's still early enough to do that. Thank you 734 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 4: so much for listening to kill Switch. If you want 735 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 4: to hit us up, you can email us at kill 736 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 4: Switch at Kaleidoscope dot NYC, or on Instagram at kill 737 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 4: switch pod. And hopefully if you made it this far 738 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 4: you like the show, and if so, you know, maybe 739 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 4: think about leaving a review. It helps other people find 740 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 4: the show, which helps us keep doing our thing. And 741 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 4: once you've done that, did you know that Killswitch is 742 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 4: on YouTube? So if you've been wondering what the Fisker 743 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 4: cars or the anime YouTuber avatars look like, you can 744 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 4: see it all there. The link for that and for 745 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 4: everything else is in the show notes. Kill Switch is 746 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,240 Speaker 4: hosted by Me Dexter Thomas. It's produced by Shena Ozaki, 747 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 4: Darluck Potts, and Julian Nutter. Alexandervild helped produce today's episode. 748 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 4: A theme song is by me and Kyle Murdoch, and 749 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 4: Kyle also makes this show in Kaleidoscope. Our executive producers 750 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 4: are Ozwa Lashin, mngesh Had Tokadur, and Kate Osbourne from 751 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 4: iHeart are executive producers are Katrina Norville and Nikki E. 752 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 4: Tor Oh and one other thing. Teague and I spent 753 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 4: a bunch of time just nerding out over cameras, which 754 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 4: I will spare you having to listen to. But there 755 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 4: was something I found really interesting, and it was how 756 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 4: even the film crews are still figuring this stuff out. 757 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 4: They're shooting this stuff on regular Hollywood level equipment though, right. 758 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've worked with like massive major cameras and like 759 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: different approaches. This is also an interesting tech point. I've 760 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: shot these sometimes where they'll use three or four cameras 761 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,399 Speaker 1: at once. I've also seen cameras physically turned on their side, 762 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: so you're literally shooting out of like a red film camera, 763 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: but it's turned on its side, which is just kind 764 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 1: of quirky to see because it's gonna be vertical, so 765 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: they literally just turned the camera. 766 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 4: I've seen that. I've seen you posted some of the 767 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 4: behind the scene photos on your Instagram, and there's one 768 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 4: where they're using a regular Hollywood style camera. I mean, 769 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,879 Speaker 4: these things cameras cost about as much as a car, 770 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 4: and they've got the little monitor on there and then 771 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 4: they just put black tape down the middle so they 772 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 4: can see, Okay, we're not using the rest of this, 773 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 4: it's only the stuff in the middle. And they just 774 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,439 Speaker 4: put tape on the monitor. 775 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: So I don't know how they measure to make sure 776 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: that that's right either, so that their frames right. So 777 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: that seems crucial to me. 778 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 4: You don't want to. 779 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: Mess that one up. 780 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 4: Any filmmakers out there are probably cringing right now, but hey, 781 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 4: look it's a brand new industry. Anyway, catch on the 782 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:32,359 Speaker 4: next one.