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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods presented by first Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First

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Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by my good buddies Dan Johnson

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Speaker 2: and Tony Peterson to discuss the current and future status

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Speaker 2: of our hunting culture. All right, welcome back to the

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Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light

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Speaker 2: and their Camo for Conservation Initiative. And today we're kicking

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Speaker 2: off a new series this month of March. We're going

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Speaker 2: to be exploring the culture of hunting, and by that

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Speaker 2: I mean all of the brought and murky issues related

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Speaker 2: to who we are, how we do what we do,

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Speaker 2: why we do what we do, and all of those

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Speaker 2: things related to hunting here in America. How we represent ourselves,

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Speaker 2: how we conduct ourselves, the things we do, the way

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Speaker 2: we talk about what we're doing, all of that. It's

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Speaker 2: one of those topics that is tough to talk about, honestly,

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Speaker 2: and that's why I thought we should have a whole

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Speaker 2: month dedicated to it. Speaking with different people with different

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Speaker 2: perspectives about where we are today as a hunting community

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Speaker 2: and where we're headed in the future. Is that a

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Speaker 2: good place, is that a concerning place? And what kind

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Speaker 2: of influence can we as individuals have on what that

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Speaker 2: future looks like. That's the game plan, That's the discussion

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Speaker 2: we are going to be having. We're going to be

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Speaker 2: talking about everything from fairchase ethics, to technology, to access

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Speaker 2: and hunter numbers and media, social media, you name it.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get into it. We're going to press

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Speaker 2: all of the controversial buttons and hopefully come out of

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Speaker 2: this thing with a few new ideas, maybe a couple

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Speaker 2: different ways of looking at things, and my greatest hope

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Speaker 2: is it will help us as a community, point us

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Speaker 2: towards a better future for this thing that we love

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Speaker 2: so much. So, without all said, with that kind of

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Speaker 2: runway ahead of us, today's episode is going to start light.

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Speaker 2: We are going to dive into this topic with my

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Speaker 2: two buddies, Dan Johnson and Tony Peterson. You know him well,

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Speaker 2: you've heard them on the podcast many times in the past,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, man, these are the guys that I

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Speaker 2: have kind of rambled about these topics the most with

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Speaker 2: in the past over the last ten to fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: So why don't we have a regroup, Why don't we

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Speaker 2: get this threesome back together and kind of check back in?

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Speaker 2: You know, are the same ways that Dan and I

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Speaker 2: felt ten years ago? You know? Do we still feel

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Speaker 2: that way today? Do Tony and I feel the same

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Speaker 2: now as we did five years ago when we first

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Speaker 2: started touching on some of these things? What do we

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Speaker 2: think about the future? Each one of us has a

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Speaker 2: different perspective, We come from a different background, We hunt

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Speaker 2: within a different context of situations and locations, different sets

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Speaker 2: of values maybe in some cases, So the three of

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Speaker 2: us wanted to come together and just kind of lay

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Speaker 2: a groundwork for what we think about some of these topics,

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Speaker 2: some of the challenges that we have with them, some

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Speaker 2: of the ways that we're trying to wrestle with them,

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Speaker 2: and use this as kind of a launching off point

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Speaker 2: for the rest of the month. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: what we achieved. It's a fun one. There's definitely some

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Speaker 2: classic everything. I guess if you follow the podcast in

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Speaker 2: the past, you probably know what to expect. If not,

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Speaker 2: you are in for hopefully in engaging conversation on these

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Speaker 2: topics with a little bit of weirdness thrown into so

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Speaker 2: you warn and ready for that as well. So without

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Speaker 2: all said, I think we should get onto the conversation

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Speaker 2: with Tony, Dan and I and this kicking off point,

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Speaker 2: this starting point for our discussion around the culture of hunting.

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Speaker 2: All right with me here for another episode of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: I've got my two right hand mans, Dan Johnson and

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Speaker 2: Tony Peterson. Thank you guys for joining me for this one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, buddy, appreciate it. Mark.

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Speaker 2: Last time the three of us were together was the

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Speaker 2: Roast of Mark Kenyon and I was at the Vortex

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Speaker 2: HQ back in last September and just talking to the

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Speaker 2: guys there, and several of them brought up the fact

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Speaker 2: that that was one of the funniest episodes I've ever

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Speaker 2: listened to, that they enjoyed it so much. They actually

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Speaker 2: listened to certain bits where you guys were giving me

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Speaker 2: hell multiple times. So I'm gonna try to keep us

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Speaker 2: from having around two of that.

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Speaker 3: But uh, I don't even remember that episode.

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Speaker 2: You might have been black.

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Speaker 3: What's in that coffee, Tony? Yes, seriously in my frozen

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Speaker 3: coffee mug? Yep, Well, Mark I'll tell you what. First off,

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Speaker 3: I really appreciate this, and I will try real hard

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Speaker 3: on my end not to derail this one like we

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Speaker 3: did last time. I'll take this one just to hear

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Speaker 3: more serious, just for you, Bud.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Mark, Mark, do you get the impression the way

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Speaker 3: Dan's talking and presenting himself right now that he got

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Speaker 3: into some anabolic steroids this weekend.

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Speaker 2: He's coming off a big weekend. Yeah, I could see that.

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Speaker 3: Did you have a cage fight this weekend?

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Speaker 4: Or what?

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Speaker 3: Buddy? What am I? Am? I being aggressive right now?

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Speaker 3: It just feels like you're yelling at us. Maybe I'm

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Speaker 3: sensitive because I live with multiple women, but fel that's right.

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Speaker 3: It feels like you're coming in hot buddy.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I didn't mean it. I mean I have

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Speaker 4: two of my best friends right here. Why would I

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Speaker 4: want to do anything to hurt number one their feelings

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Speaker 4: or physical harm. Hey, I'll take a step back if

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Speaker 4: you think so.

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Speaker 2: I did see I did see on social Uh, Dan,

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Speaker 2: your daughter is whooping on some other girls in wrestling.

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Speaker 5: It seems like, huh, yeah, she's uh, she's kind of

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Speaker 5: turned into a savage this uh, this year, and it

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Speaker 5: makes me very happy, especially when she starts to get

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Speaker 5: to the age where she can start dating and I

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Speaker 5: know that she can defend herself against you know, maybe

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Speaker 5: some boys with some you know, feely fingers, if that

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Speaker 5: makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we get what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: You didn't have to go in to detail, but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I feel like you might be

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Speaker 2: living vicariously through her now, like you're watching her wrestle

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Speaker 2: and then you got a royd like in the bathroom

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Speaker 2: behind just to get ready for it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm ripping sinks out of the wall and stuff

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Speaker 4: like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, Dan, that's a good lead into our conversation.

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Speaker 3: Dan, I have a question for you, because Mark, you're

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Speaker 3: not at this stage yet. When she competes, or your

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Speaker 3: kids compete and they don't do very well or they

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Speaker 3: have a bad day, does it like ruin your day?

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Speaker 4: Truthfully, it only ruins my day because their day is ruined. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and so my daughter, I'll just use it because it's

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Speaker 4: fresh from this weekend. She wanted to place. There was

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Speaker 4: seventeen girls in her bracket she wanted to place this year.

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Speaker 4: That means eighth or higher, and three of the four

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Speaker 4: girls that placed she didn't place. She won her first match,

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Speaker 4: lost her next. Two of the girls that placed eighth

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Speaker 4: or higher this year, this year, she's already beat four

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Speaker 4: of them, and so she didn't place. She was devastated,

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Speaker 4: And I was devastated, not at her performance, but because

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Speaker 4: she was devastating.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: Same with my boys, when you know, they strike out,

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Speaker 4: or they have a bad game where they drop a

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Speaker 4: pop fly or something like that, or my oldest boy

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Speaker 4: wrestles too, when they have a bad day, I have

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Speaker 4: a bad day, not because of the expectations, but because

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Speaker 4: just how they feel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how about if they do something really embarrassing, like

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Speaker 3: a big mistake.

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Speaker 4: Like when you mean a big mistake, you mean like

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Speaker 4: a big mistake during yes sporting event.

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Speaker 3: So or like, let me just frame this up. This

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Speaker 3: It didn't happen this year, which was wonderful, but the

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Speaker 3: last two years, my one, my lunatic daughter has made

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Speaker 3: a basket in the wrong basket two years in a row.

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Speaker 3: And she actually shakes it off, but I mean it's

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Speaker 3: so freaking embarrassing and you're like and you can see

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Speaker 3: it coming, you know, like just like, oh, my God,

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to get the ball right here, and

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Speaker 3: I have no defenders around me because everybody else is

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Speaker 3: on the other end of the court. You're like, don't shoot,

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Speaker 3: and of course, you know, they make like one out

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Speaker 3: of every twenty five shots they take, and of course

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Speaker 3: they always make that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, especially embarrassing now the girls are sixteen. You think

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Speaker 2: that by now they've got to figure it out.

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Speaker 6: Now that they're driving themselves to the court. Hey, okay, Mark,

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Speaker 6: you got two boys.

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Speaker 4: Okay, And so you know, Tony, you whether you know

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Speaker 4: or you don't know, boys are way different than girls.

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Speaker 4: Like it's emotional, right, But you were talking about, you know,

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Speaker 4: do you ever get embarrassed about your children? And my

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Speaker 4: youngest boy's watching Paul Patrol the other day and he's laughing.

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Speaker 4: He's laughing, he's laughing. I hear him cough real loud,

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Speaker 4: and then I hear him say, oh boy.

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Speaker 6: Then there's silence, and he walks up to me and goes, dad,

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Speaker 6: I pooped my pants.

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Speaker 2: It was a really good episode.

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Speaker 4: And I'm just like, what, buddy, Yeah, dad, uh, I

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Speaker 4: pooped my pants. I'm like just a little bit. He goes, no,

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Speaker 4: it's all in there. That's when I get embarrassed. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: even though there's no one to see it. I'm just like, oh, dude,

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Speaker 4: you know you're old enough where you know you shouldn't

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Speaker 4: poop yourself.

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Speaker 3: But imagine how he's going to feel when he finds

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Speaker 3: out that you talked about that on a podcast thousands

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Speaker 3: of people and he's just this poor little guy who

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Speaker 3: got too into his cartoon.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, dude, dude, he loves the Paul Patrol.

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Speaker 3: When my daughters were like five, the flu was just

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Speaker 3: raging through our house and I remember just walking down

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Speaker 3: my hallway and one of my daughters was coming the

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Speaker 3: other way down the hallway, and she just stopped and

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Speaker 3: she just looked at me, and I could just see

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Speaker 3: it on her face. I was like, you just shut

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Speaker 3: your pants in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: She's like, yep, you just watch it.

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Speaker 2: So then do you do? You have to do that

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Speaker 2: thing though, Like we're lots of times a kid does

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Speaker 2: something dumb or makes a mistake or whatever, and then

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Speaker 2: you always try to step in with the parental example like, oh,

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Speaker 2: don't worry, buddy, I've done that too. You have plenty

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Speaker 2: of those kinds of stories for your daughter, Tony.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, once every ten years. I'm that's one of

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Speaker 3: my cadence.

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Speaker 2: I think you're I think you're covering some things up

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Speaker 2: Tony once every ten years.

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Speaker 4: Come on, No, I mean like a good one, like

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Speaker 4: in public or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so I'm not just.

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Speaker 4: Talking about those when you're working.

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Speaker 6: From home and you're like, oh no, hey, Mark, you

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Speaker 6: better course correct.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going the wrong way.

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Speaker 2: Before we go any further down this path, the reason

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Speaker 2: I had you on here was not to talk about

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Speaker 2: digestive issues, but to talk about culture and uh yeah,

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Speaker 2: culture and community. You know over well, we've done this

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Speaker 2: podcast for more than ten years now, and both of

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Speaker 2: you have been on a whole lot of these shows

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Speaker 2: with me. We've talked, sometimes like on purpose, about the

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Speaker 2: culture within our hunting community, and sometimes it just happens

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Speaker 2: out of nowhere. But over the years, we've talked a

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Speaker 2: lot about what's going on within this world of people

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Speaker 2: that we, you know, share the woods and waters with.

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Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about things related to politics that

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Speaker 2: are impacting hunting. We've talked about things related to media.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about things related to technology. We've talked there's

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Speaker 2: all these different topics that kind of swirl around the

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Speaker 2: culture of this thing we do and love, and so

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Speaker 2: this month my thought was to talk to a handful

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Speaker 2: of different people about where we stand now. You know,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four seems like there's a lot of stuff

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Speaker 2: in the water. There's a lot of I don't want

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Speaker 2: to say drama, but there's a lot of things going

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Speaker 2: on these days that I think are influencing and will

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Speaker 2: continue to influence what the future of hunting looks like.

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Speaker 2: So I thought, before we dig into this deep, we

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Speaker 2: should kind of set the stage with the three of

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Speaker 2: us and kind of see where our heads are at,

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Speaker 2: kind of circle back on some things that we've talked

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Speaker 2: about in the past, you know. You know, Gosh, I

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Speaker 2: remember early days of the podcast Dan having these conversations

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Speaker 2: with you, raging against hunting media in different things like that.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, where do we Let's talk about some

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Speaker 2: of these things and how our perspective has made be

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Speaker 2: changed in the years, or maybe how it's hardened and

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Speaker 2: stayed the same, how things maybe look different to us

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Speaker 2: now that we're more on the inside at this in

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Speaker 2: the media side of things. I mean, we've been in

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Speaker 2: the hunting media side now fifteen to twenty five years

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Speaker 2: or so between the three of us, we've all been

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Speaker 2: hunting most of our lives. So for me that's been

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Speaker 2: like thirty six years, for Tony sixty some, and we've

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Speaker 2: all kind of had these these wide ranging experiences. So

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Speaker 2: that's that's where my head's at. That's what I want

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Speaker 2: to get at here.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm only seven years older than you, Right.

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Speaker 2: It feels like an eternity. Man, it feels like.

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Speaker 3: I'm a lot more mature and wise. Right.

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Speaker 2: That's not necessarily where I was thinking, but hey, this

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Speaker 2: is where I want to This is where I want

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Speaker 2: to start. I kind of want to think about this

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Speaker 2: like a like a health check, annual physical on the

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Speaker 2: hunting community, like just checking the vital signs, checking the status,

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Speaker 2: checking where things stand now. So if you were to

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Speaker 2: step back and look at the culture of our hunting

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Speaker 2: community as a whole, and you had to rate the

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Speaker 2: health like if you were a doctor or some kind

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Speaker 2: of you're gonna say, man on a a mixing metaphors here,

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Speaker 2: because I'm going to say like an F to a scale.

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Speaker 2: So maybe this should be more of like a teacher analogy.

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Speaker 2: But whatever, what I'm trying to get at here is

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Speaker 2: if Tony, you were gonna look at the state of

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Speaker 2: the culture of hunting right now and give a grade

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Speaker 2: level A down to F, what would you write where

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Speaker 2: we are right now and give me like a quick,

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Speaker 2: like quick explanation of where your head's at when you

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Speaker 2: come up with that grade.

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Speaker 3: I would probably go C minus or D plus right now.

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Speaker 3: And the reason I would say that is because, and

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Speaker 3: we can talk about this later, but if you if

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Speaker 3: you look at what's happening out there as far as

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Speaker 3: the hunting population, we're complaining like crazy right now about

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Speaker 3: each other, you know, non residents coming in, residents leasing up, whatever,

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Speaker 3: and we are we are actually taking away real opportunities

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Speaker 3: from our fellow hunters right now. So we have this

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Speaker 3: boogeyman going on that we've always had of the anti hunter,

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Speaker 3: you know, and they're going to take away your lyon

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Speaker 3: hunting or your bear hunting or whatever. You know. We

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Speaker 3: kind of know the targets thereafter. But if you look

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Speaker 3: at what's happening in Colorado right now and going to

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Speaker 3: be happening next year, and there's a bill that just

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Speaker 3: came up in Oklahoma, I don't know if it'll pass

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Speaker 3: or not. But we're sitting here bitching and bitch and

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Speaker 3: bitch about our hunting and our solution is to take

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Speaker 3: something away from somebody. And we are like, we have

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Speaker 3: this weird little kind of cancel culture thing going on

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Speaker 3: in our ranks where we don't we're never going to

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Speaker 3: talk about the hunters taking away our hunting rights, even

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Speaker 3: though that's exactly what we're doing to each other. And

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Speaker 3: we're really caught up in that right now, and that

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Speaker 3: worries me a lot.

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Speaker 2: All right, I want to dive into more of that,

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Speaker 2: but let's get to you, Dan. What's your answer? What's

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Speaker 2: your take?

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Speaker 4: So I read that email, and I think the reason

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Speaker 4: that there's so much I don't necessarily I'm going to

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Speaker 4: use the word division, but I don't know if that's

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Speaker 4: the right word, because I feel like there is no

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Speaker 4: hunting one hunting culture. I think there's multiple hunting cultures.

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Speaker 4: I think that I think that if you're a landowner,

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Speaker 4: or you are a or you have money, your grade

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Speaker 4: is going to be much higher than someone who is

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Speaker 4: a public land hunter, who's blue collar and doesn't have

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Speaker 4: the the budget for hunting like others do, and then

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Speaker 4: that that is much lower right, and so I can

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Speaker 4: talk on what I know. You know, if you have

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Speaker 4: a ton of money, if you own ground to where

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Speaker 4: you're able to manage high quality you know, deer and

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Speaker 4: put money into it, there's no reason for you to

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Speaker 4: be upset at things. But if you're struggling to find access,

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Speaker 4: if you're struggling to find one or two acres in

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Speaker 4: public that you know other guys are are coming in

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Speaker 4: on all the time, that's just the reality of public

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Speaker 4: land hunting. But I think there's two there's two different

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Speaker 4: cultures that are fighting against each other, and nobody's right

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Speaker 4: and nobody's really wrong because both are hurting and both

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Speaker 4: are helping the you know, in a way, there's positives

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Speaker 4: and negatives on both both cultures.

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Speaker 2: So you didn't give me a grade, though, I mean.

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Speaker 4: It's hard, Like I can't say if I'm going to

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Speaker 4: average them out, I'll say it's it's a it's like

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Speaker 4: a sea or something like that, right, because things that

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Speaker 4: I worry about, like I am honestly worried that unless

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Speaker 4: I don't buy land, my kids are not going to

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Speaker 4: have a place to hunt in Iowa unless it's on public,

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Speaker 4: which I beat this horse to death several states in

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Speaker 4: the on the east right, not every state, but Iowa Kansas,

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Speaker 4: that's two of them that are that are way like

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Speaker 4: they have hardly any public land. And as there's this

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Speaker 4: displacement from private to public, public becomes overrun, people have

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Speaker 4: to change their scale of what kind of deer they're

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Speaker 4: going to shoot. Thus, you know, like I mean, it's

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Speaker 4: just this snowball effect. So I would say that it's

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Speaker 4: a sea. But then there's also in that in that grade,

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Speaker 4: it's like an average, right, the people who can have

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Speaker 4: the land, have the access, have the money, they're they

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Speaker 4: don't care because they're they're they're happy, you know, they

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Speaker 4: have an A. But then the other people d minus

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Speaker 4: you know, like then it averages out. So that's really

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Speaker 4: all I'm trying to get at.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I follow you. I was gonna give us

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Speaker 2: a C as well, and I was kind of looking

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Speaker 2: at it a little bit differently differently than you, Dan,

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Speaker 2: But but I gave us a C because I see

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Speaker 2: some things that are really encouraging and I see some

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Speaker 2: things that are really discouraging. So I see like some

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Speaker 2: A level stuff that I'm happy about the direction we're going,

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Speaker 2: and I'm seeing some like f level stuff that I'm

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Speaker 2: like concerned about the direction we're going, and so that

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Speaker 2: kind of puts me in the middle and that I

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Speaker 2: feel like we are approaching these like in this inflection

365
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Speaker 2: point a little bit for hunting where we've heard about

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Speaker 2: it for years and years, but we're just approaching this

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Speaker 2: point where we've got the demographic shift happening that has

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Speaker 2: been forewarned about for years. Right, We're approaching that window

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Speaker 2: of time when the baby boomers are gonna leave the

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Speaker 2: hunting population, and so we're going to have that decline,

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Speaker 2: dramatic decline that everyone's talked about coming, that's gonna happen,

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Speaker 2: and so we're going to have fewer hunters than ever before,

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Speaker 2: at the same time that we have the risk of

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Speaker 2: these anti hunting things that you talked about, Tony that

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Speaker 2: are continuing to pick up steam. So we have fewer

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Speaker 2: people representing us while there are more threats from the outside,

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Speaker 2: while at the same time, any negative, bad apple kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff that we have within the community can more

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Speaker 2: easily get out there into the world than ever before.

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Speaker 2: As we talked about this before, right, the social media risk,

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Speaker 2: which then could inflame the non hunting anti hunting risk.

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Speaker 2: So those things worry me, while at the same time,

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Speaker 2: like I see things that I'm excited about when you

384
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Speaker 2: see like the rise in you know, people, new folks

385
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Speaker 2: coming into the hunting world from the outside, Folks realizing that, like, man,

386
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Speaker 2: this hunting things pretty darn't cool. There's this great way

387
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Speaker 2: to get food, there's this great way to connect with

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Speaker 2: the natural world. You're seeing, you know, folks like Rogan,

389
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Speaker 2: folks like that who are connecting and bringing in new people.

390
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Speaker 2: So we're getting these new niche sub communities within the

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Speaker 2: hunting world that I think are good and exciting to see.

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Speaker 2: I you know, selfishly feel like they're not selfishly. But

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Speaker 2: I think like over the last ten years, there's been

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Speaker 2: a growing wave of hunting being presented in different ways

395
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Speaker 2: beyond just like shoot a big giant deer. We're having

396
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Speaker 2: more people talk about these like deeper ways of looking

397
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Speaker 2: hunting that I think appeal also to these new people,

398
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Speaker 2: and that's a good thing. I think. The access thing, though,

399
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Speaker 2: is a worry, Like you said, Dan, on the flip side, though,

400
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Speaker 2: like there has been some wins on the public land side,

401
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Speaker 2: like people are realizing how valuable public lands are and

402
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Speaker 2: so I think that's something where maybe twenty years ago

403
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Speaker 2: a lot of folks took it for granted. I don't

404
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 2: think people take it for granted now. I think there's

405
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Speaker 2: more of like a there's an army of public land

406
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Speaker 2: defenders now that will help us keep the opportunities we

407
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 2: have at least, so that's encouraging. So yeah, I'm kind

408
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Speaker 2: of right in the middle, and it just feels like, man,

409
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Speaker 2: it's like it's like you're walking a really thin ridge line.

410
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Speaker 2: Is how I feel about where we are in the

411
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Speaker 2: hunting world.

412
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Speaker 3: Right now.

413
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Speaker 2: We're on a thin ridge and if we take a

414
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Speaker 2: misstep off to the left or right, we could be

415
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Speaker 2: in a world of hurt. But right now, when we're

416
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Speaker 2: on that ridge line, it's not too bad. Like we're

417
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 2: in a beautiful place. But man, there's risks on either side,

418
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Speaker 2: which I guess is why I thought these kinds of

419
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 2: conversations are worth having, because I've always thought, man, just

420
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: just keeping this kind of top of mind and looking

421
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 2: at our culture not as something that somebody else is

422
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Speaker 2: doing that we can point a finger at and say

423
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Speaker 2: all these guys suck. It's more so like we own

424
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: the culture like we are, we should take ownership in it. Right,

425
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Speaker 2: So if there's something we're concerned about, we should What

426
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Speaker 2: can we do right? What can I as an individual do?

427
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: What can me and my hunting buddies do as a group,

428
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Speaker 2: you know, how can we point in a direction that

429
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: we think is more positive? So that I think is

430
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Speaker 2: is why. That's the why for all of this. I

431
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: want to dive into a couple of things you guys

432
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Speaker 2: brought up. One of the big ones Dan you talked

433
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Speaker 2: about is access and like the implications of access on

434
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 2: the future of hunting and who can hunt, who can't hunt,

435
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 2: the everything that goes in this. That's the divisions. Tony,

436
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 2: you talked about divisions. Well, here's one of those big divisions,

437
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,719
Speaker 2: which is like the private land crowd versus a public

438
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 2: land crowd. There's a lot I don't know. If I

439
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 2: don't know, there might be a lot of animosity. Maybe

440
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of animosity, but it just gets

441
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: amplified by social media or whatever. But there's some level

442
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: of animosity between the landholders who control land and can,

443
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: like you said, Dan, have got it made. And then

444
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: there's everybody else who feels like we're getting priced out

445
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: of the game. Can't get access to it, decent stuff anymore,

446
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 2: et cetera. So with that you have a flip side,

447
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: which is on the public land side, you've got a

448
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 2: limited amount of land. But we're also trying to recruit

449
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 2: new hunters, and so there's complaints about too many hunters

450
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: now in public land. So that's like a whole lot

451
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 2: of different things all roiled up into one general topic

452
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: of issues. Tony, what do you make of this? You

453
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time writing about it, talking about

454
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 2: it public versus private landowners versus di wires. How do

455
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: you think we can move forward? Word or how should

456
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: we best move forward when it comes to like bridging

457
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: that divide in some kind of way, not necessarily on

458
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: like the hunting success side, but on the like the

459
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: culture these groups of people and trying to somehow work

460
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: collectively to keep hunting in a positive place.

461
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 3: I think I think the biggest mistake that we keep

462
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 3: making is we cannot help ourselves but slide into like

463
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 3: this trophy hunting mentality all the time. And so when

464
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 3: you look at the messaging and it comes from us,

465
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 3: it comes from everybody in the industry, just about it

466
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: looks like like how Dan said, if you're a private

467
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: land owner and you've got those resources guarded, everything's rosy

468
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: for you, right well, like on paper maybe, but that

469
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 3: guy still gets pissed at the neighbors, shoot the little

470
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 3: bucks or whatever, like there's you know, there's still reasons

471
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 3: to be mad. And then you have this other side

472
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 3: where people are on public or I would argue you

473
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 3: could lump in, you know, permission based hunting too now,

474
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 3: just because generally if you're getting if somebody's letting you

475
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 3: on a property, you're probably not in there alone. So

476
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 3: it's sort of more of a pressured versus controlled division really.

477
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: But what we just can't help but do is focus

478
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 3: so much on the big buck thing that we make

479
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 3: it look like that's it. Like from the outside looking in,

480
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 3: it's like that's the goal. And if the reason that

481
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 3: people have such a bad attitude about public land isn't

482
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 3: because they've been out there working their asses off and

483
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 3: finding deer, it's because they look at it and go,

484
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,719
Speaker 3: I'm never going to kill a big one. You're never

485
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 3: going to kill that one fifty there, right, So it's

486
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: like why go? And so I think I think our

487
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 3: messaging has been wrong, Like I think we got to

488
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: look at this and go, we're pretty damn lucky to

489
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 3: get to hunt anything, and we're pretty lucky to have

490
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 3: places to go do that. So yeah, like Dan mentioned,

491
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 3: you know, you might have to adjust your standards, right,

492
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 3: and people go, I don't want to go do that,

493
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 3: And I'm like, well, if you go scout and work

494
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: this out on public land and shoot a little one

495
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 3: or shoot a dough or something like, if you've never

496
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: done that, probably give it a shot first before you're

497
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 3: like it's not worth it, because when you go through

498
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: like I've gone through the big buck phase, chase one bucks,

499
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: all that stuff, and you kind of get to a

500
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 3: point where you realize, like, it's cool, but it's not

501
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 3: as important as we presented a lot of times and

502
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 3: every one of us. If suddenly, you know, I would

503
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 3: pass the law in Michigan passed a law and they

504
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 3: said you can't shoot anything over one hundred and twenty inches,

505
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 3: we'd be hunting one hundred and seventeen inch bucks, you

506
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Or if they were like there's

507
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: a month where you can't hunt bucks, we'd go hunt doughs.

508
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 3: Like you'd still go for the experience of being out

509
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 3: there it would change a lot of how you approach it.

510
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 3: But I think I think we've made a big mistake

511
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 3: and we fell into this in like two thousand and eight,

512
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, when the when the Power Couple

513
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 3: Sportsman channel thing was really on the rise and then

514
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: it broke and all of a sudden, Steve Varnella and

515
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: Randy come in. We do this to ourselves, but I

516
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 3: think we have to be aware of it and just

517
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 3: go like, hey, the mature buck thing's awesome, it's fun.

518
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: It's cool to see them coming through the woods and

519
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 3: focus on them. But it's not like that's not the

520
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 3: sole reason for anyone to do this, And we have

521
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 3: to be careful about our messaging.

522
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: So what does that come down to though? Is that

523
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 2: is that on the media or is that on individual hunters? Like, like,

524
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: who has the who has the power to change this?

525
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 2: If we think it's a thing that needs to be changed,

526
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: where where does that change come from?

527
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: We do? I mean, I think this stuff filters down.

528
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 3: I mean before, you know, just think about it this way,

529
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 3: before the Druries and the Lakaskis and the Kisskis and

530
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 3: these people figured out how to essentially grow giant deer

531
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 3: and keep them around. How many people did you hear

532
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: about just randomly in your life that we're doing that,

533
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like it right? And so

534
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, there are probably people who had

535
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: that kind of figured out in the sanctuary thing forever,

536
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 3: but it wasn't like a wide scale Like you're not

537
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 3: surprised if you if you do immediate or a live

538
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: event or go to a deer classic, you're not surprised

539
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 3: when people talk like that and present that style of hunting. Well,

540
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 3: that didn't come from the you know, like that didn't

541
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: come from the general population. That came from people who

542
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: had to kill big ones on TV and figure out

543
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 3: a way to do it. So I think it comes

544
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 3: from us.

545
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 4: I'm going to disagree because not wholly, but just on

546
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 4: some parts of that. And I think it's it's situational

547
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 4: based off of where you live and where you hunt

548
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 4: because back in the day, and I didn't even when

549
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 4: I first started hunting when I was twelve or thirteen

550
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 4: years old, in Iowa, as far back as I can remember,

551
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 4: it's always been big Bucks. It's always been that, hey, dude,

552
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 4: Like even before the Lakoski's moved to Iowa, and I

553
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 4: had permission on any place that I knocked on doors, right,

554
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 4: farmers were telling me don't shoot the small bucks, like,

555
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 4: don't shoot, you know, like I would. I can remember

556
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 4: the first time ever got a trail camera picture. I

557
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 4: went and I got it developed. I showed the farmer.

558
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 4: I go check this buck out. At the time, it

559
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 4: was a big buck.

560
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: For me.

561
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 4: It was like a one hundred and twenty five inch

562
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 4: eight pointer, and I was like, oh my god, I'm

563
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 4: gonna try to shoot this buck. He hops out of

564
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 4: his combine. He looks at it, then he goes, don't

565
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 4: shoot that buck. Don't shoot that buck. Shoot, you know,

566
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 4: put a little bit more time in. There's much bigger

567
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 4: deer around here for you to shoot. And so the

568
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 4: culture here is different than the culture in Michigan. The

569
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 4: culture here is different than the culture in Texas.

570
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 3: And so.

571
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: It's it's always like the way I grew up, it's

572
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 4: always been about antler size. What's changed, in my opinion,

573
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 4: is the age. They brought the age class into it

574
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 4: to almost justify the sole purpose of shooting big antlers.

575
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 4: Of course, there's people there, yeah, you know what I mean. Well,

576
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 4: and so it's like Oh, dude, I only shoot big deer,

577
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 4: well you shoot or I only shoot old deer. Well

578
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 4: you're the only reason you're shooting old deer is because

579
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 4: they grow the biggest antlers, right, And so I don't

580
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 4: I don't know whether that was really a disagreement. Well,

581
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 4: it's really how I how I was raised in it.

582
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 3: I know there's been pockets like that for a long time.

583
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: What I mean is like the guys in Pennsylvania when

584
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: you were twelve years old, they didn't know about Iowa,

585
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like you might have heard

586
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: or whatever, but it wasn't you know, some dude down

587
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 3: in Louisiana wasn't like I'm gonna I'm going up to

588
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 3: hunt Iowa for big bucks like that, you know. I mean,

589
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: that's different. But you're right on the you know, we

590
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 3: we do this weasel word stuff all the time. Where

591
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,239
Speaker 3: we figured out trophy hunting is negative, like you know,

592
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: from Africa to the US wherever. If it's pure trophy hunting,

593
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: it is not very palatable to the to the general

594
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 3: hunters and to the general population. So we went, well,

595
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 3: mature box, they're responsible, Like that's a responsible way to hunt.

596
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: But you're right, we just kind of we just kind

597
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 3: of switched the definition and we're like, they just happen

598
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: to have the biggest antlers, you know, and I we

599
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: don't wait for them to get eight and a half

600
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 3: nine and a half years old on the downswing, you know,

601
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 3: we're like, okay, fill them in the prime.

602
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: But let's uh, let's what's the what's the alternative? You know,

603
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: because if you're saying trophy hunting or being all geeked

604
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: out about antlers, big antlers is has been a negative

605
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: thing in your view, Tony, And from like the anti

606
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 2: hunt to what you're saying, the fact that this idea

607
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: of trophy hunting has been proven and many many surveys

608
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: like trophy hunting is very unpopular with the general public.

609
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: So if the idea of trophy hunting is going to

610
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: hurt us in the eyes of the non hunting public

611
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: who have the majority and the opportunity to strip us

612
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: of our privilege, So if that's a bad thing about it,

613
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: If people are getting bummed out about hunting because they

614
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 2: can't meet the expectations they have based on the trophy

615
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: as they see on TV. If you're saying Dan that

616
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: you know, we're losing access to quality places where people

617
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 2: can kill big deer is the alternative. Just I guess

618
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: I don't know where do we go from here? Because

619
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: all that's true in a way, But at the same time,

620
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 2: we all still like to shoot big deer. We all

621
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: still get geeked out by big deer, and whether we

622
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: want to admit it or not, big deer are also

623
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: the thing that everybody clicks on, that everybody taps on Instagram,

624
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 2: that everybody watches on YouTube, that everybody wants to think about,

625
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 2: wants to see, wants to watch on YouTube. It's the

626
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: deer I want to see when I'm drifting around the

627
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: roads in August and I'm hoping to come around a

628
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: corner and see a big, giant buck in the back

629
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: of the beanfield. So how do we we? I just

630
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: these are things I thought about a lot, We've talked

631
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: about a lot. I just don't know where we go

632
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 2: from here when we all agree like we like this thing,

633
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: but we also know it can be toxic, I.

634
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 6: Think, Sorry, Dan, Oh, go ahead, Tony Well, I was

635
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 6: just gonna say, I don't know what the answer is, Mark,

636
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 6: but I would I would argue I would die on

637
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 6: this hill that our focus on big deer has been

638
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 6: a negative to hunting because if you just from the

639
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 6: purely perspective of access, we know the one way to

640
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 6: keep people around and keep them happy is have an

641
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 6: access to more ground, right.

642
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 3: Like, that's just like a that's such a wind for

643
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 3: hunting in general. But if you look at in the

644
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 3: white tail space specifically the resource guarding, where leasing land

645
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 3: or buying land or you know, somebody's you know who,

646
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: maybe grandma owns the dairy farm and they used to

647
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 3: let a bunch of people in, but one of the

648
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 3: grandsons loves big Bucks and he's going to be like Graham,

649
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: I don't want anybody else in there. If you're talking about,

650
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 3: you know, people getting pushed on to public and smaller

651
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 3: properties and losing places. Most of that, not all of it,

652
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 3: because there's urban development. There's a lot of stuff that happens.

653
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 3: But it has been an undeniable facet of hunting that

654
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 3: the idea that you can control a place and kill

655
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 3: big Bucks has has kept a lot of people from

656
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 3: access to ground. I don't know what you do about it,

657
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 3: because I don't I don't want to stop people from

658
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 3: being able to buy land and lease land and do

659
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: their thing. So you look at that and go, what's

660
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 3: the hedge against it? Maybe opening up more public maybe

661
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 3: more walk in access programs. I don't. I don't know,

662
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 3: but I think I think we need to acknowledge. It's

663
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 3: the same thing with a non resident resident fight. We

664
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 3: have to acknowledge that we are really selfish in some ways,

665
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 3: like we want it for ourselves, we want it easier,

666
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 3: and we will we will do things to get that.

667
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 3: And so that's I mean, it's okay, like we're all

668
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 3: like that. We all, like you said, we all want

669
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 3: the big bucks, we want a fun hunt, but that

670
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 3: comes at a price, and we have to be aware

671
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 3: of that. So if if we're gonna just inherently naturally

672
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: be that way, we should acknowledge it and work on

673
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 3: the other end and work for that access or or

674
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 3: something that kind of can help level that out.

675
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I one hundred percent agree with you. And

676
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 2: then would also tag on the fact that while it's

677
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: true that we all do enjoy seeing the big deer

678
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 2: and all that comes with that, it's not to say

679
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 2: that the rest of hunting is not incredible too. So

680
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: it's just as important too, Like we can't help but

681
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: celebrate big deer because they're just impressive. But at the

682
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: same time, we probably can make a greater effort to

683
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: make sure we are celebrating and talking about shooting the spike,

684
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: shooting the dose, having the encounter, or hunting in a

685
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: place where we don't see a lot of deer. But man,

686
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 2: it was a hell of an experience. It was a

687
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: great adventure. We only saw two little yearlings, but man,

688
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: that was a great challenger. You know, Dan's first out

689
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: of state kill a few years ago. That wasn't the

690
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: biggest year in the world, but I think you were

691
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: about as happy as anything. So I think those stories

692
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: deserve just as much airtime and as much celebration from

693
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: each of us, either as the media or just hunting

694
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: individuals too. That makes a lot of sense to me.

695
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 2: But what do you thinking, Dan, I've seen your wheels turning,

696
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: so there.

697
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 4: Was I don't know, Like, I'm sure I didn't make

698
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 4: it up. Like there's a statistic that I think about

699
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 4: a lot, and that is the amount of acres per hunter.

700
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 4: And so what I'm what I'm seeing is a giant

701
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 4: split in what I'm assuming, Like I don't have any

702
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 4: hard facts for this, but this is an assumption and

703
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 4: this is what kind of you know, while one group

704
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 4: of hunters it's taking up more land per acre to

705
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 4: do their thing on, there is another group of people

706
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 4: who that acre per hunter is shrinking, and so their

707
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 4: experience is going down because obviously wild deer or wild

708
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,479
Speaker 4: game in general is not going to want to hang

709
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 4: out in an environment where there is more predators than

710
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 4: there is, you know, just a higher ratio of predators

711
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 4: as you get to the other side. And so what

712
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 4: we have here, and Tony mentioned it, is we have

713
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 4: certain groups of people who are gatekeepers for the natural resource.

714
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 4: And they are I'm trying to think of a positive

715
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 4: word here, they are in charge of the natural resource. Right,

716
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 4: they're doing everything. They're not doing anything wrong. They just

717
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,479
Speaker 4: are doing their thing on their land or their least

718
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 4: land or whatever, and it grows. So I think, going

719
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 4: back to your original question, the word that I want

720
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 4: to throw out there, and at any time you want

721
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 4: to change culture or change a person's thoughts or beliefs,

722
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 4: somebody has to sacrifice something. And whether that is a

723
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 4: guy who is notoriously a large private land landowner, his

724
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 4: sacrifice may be let a guy who lost a property

725
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 4: hunt his own farm, maybe set some expectations for them,

726
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 4: give him, give him access to the kingdom in some way,

727
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 4: shape or form. The other one on the far the

728
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 4: far end would be if you're a public land owner,

729
00:39:54,880 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 4: you may have to sacrifice time to take somebody else hunting,

730
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 4: or to help a fellow hunter find a good place

731
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 4: to hunt, or talk to the person that you have

732
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 4: permission on and just be like, hey, listen, I got

733
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 4: a buddy. He does he doesn't hunt very much or

734
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 4: whatever his story is, you mind if he hops on

735
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 4: with me and I can kind of take him under

736
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 4: my wing. Those types of things, And there's so many

737
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 4: different examples of that moving forward. But you can change

738
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 4: an individual can change, I'm assuming rather easily, but an

739
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 4: entire culture, an entire group of people. You ask people to, Hey,

740
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 4: do me a favor. And in Tony's example, it's trophy

741
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 4: hunting or big antlers. Hey, I need you to stop

742
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 4: caring about big antlers.

743
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 3: Uh what what.

744
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 4: You want me to stop caring about? Big bucks? Big

745
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 4: bucks are or what I think about every day?

746
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: Right?

747
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, I need you to stop thinking about that for

748
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 4: you know, the rest of your life. And so in

749
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 4: order to change the culture, and that is a a tsunami.

750
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 4: Trying to stop a tsunami, it's the way I think

751
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 4: it would be damn near impossible.

752
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why I don't think you can stop that.

753
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 2: I think you you more so just have to create

754
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: a tsunami in the other way too, so you have

755
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 2: growing energy for the other parts of hunting as well.

756
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: Back to like the access thing and the challenge here,

757
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 2: I think something worth noting is like, you're right there.

758
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: There's if we recognize that this this access thing and

759
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: this kind of distribution of resources not being fair, right,

760
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: it's also just the reality of the world. It is

761
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 2: what it is. Like, we we have a very in

762
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 2: demand resource, which is white tailed deer or land access,

763
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,919
Speaker 2: and we either accept the fact that that's how things

764
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: go in a capitalist society or we try to become

765
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: you know, redistribution of income commies or whatever. So we're

766
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: not going to go that route. So the fact is like,

767
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: this is this is what it is. And people with

768
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: their hard earned money bought their properties, did their thing,

769
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: and God bless them. But I think you bring up

770
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 2: some good points, Dan, which is like on the for

771
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 2: those that have you know, there's the old saying. I

772
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: don't know where it came from, but like with those

773
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: with great power, comes great responsibility, right, I think it's

774
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: worth reminding all of us, For those of us that

775
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: do have access, for all of us that do own

776
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 2: land or have a lease or have great spots like,

777
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 2: remember there's other people out there who don't have that,

778
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 2: and and maybe we can all do a little bit

779
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 2: more to share our access in one way or another.

780
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 2: That's one way we can help on this issue. On

781
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 2: the flip side, Tony, you brought this up, and I

782
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 2: think it's a really good thing too. We still need

783
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 2: to continue working to add new access. So let's make

784
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: sure that if we're gonna bitch and moan about not

785
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: having enough public land, then we should each and all

786
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: of us individually be working to increase access opportunities by

787
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: supporting any legislation that comes down the pipeline that might

788
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: lead to new access. By you know, learning about the

789
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: Farm Bill, which is the bill every hand four or

790
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: five years that funds many of these walk in habitat programs,

791
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: that gets you the access in Kansas, that gets you

792
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: the access in Michigan, that gets you a lot of

793
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 2: these private land properties that are opened up to public

794
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: land hunting. That's all funded through the Farm Bill, and

795
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 2: so learn about that, learn about how to talk to

796
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: your senators and representatives about supporting that when it comes

797
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 2: up for reauthorization this coming year. That's something we can do.

798
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 2: And then of course fight like hell to make sure

799
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 2: we don't lose public lands. I think those two things.

800
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 2: If you have access, share it, If you care about

801
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: public access, fight for it. I do think that's one

802
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 2: thing that all of us could partake into to some degree.

803
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: Maybe it's if you own land, invite a bunch of people,

804
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 2: if you just have permission, see if you can have

805
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: permission to have a buddy join you a couple of times,

806
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: take a new hunter, whatever it is. I think those

807
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 2: are a few, like tangible things we can do that

808
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: chip away at this a little. But if we're all

809
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: not trying to do our own part in this, that

810
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: the avalanche is going to keep on going down the mountain.

811
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 2: It's just it's only going to get worse. And I

812
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 2: think that's so many things within this larger conversation of

813
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: like where things stand in our culture. There's all these

814
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: micro issues, and all of them are going to continue

815
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 2: sliding down the slope. Whatever the easy thing is. That's

816
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 2: where things are going to go unless we, as a

817
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 2: collective within this community all decide, okay, you know what,

818
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 2: this is the thing that matters. I'm going to do

819
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 2: my little part. We can all do our own little part,

820
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: and that all adds up. Like you said, Dan, you can't.

821
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: You can. You can change an individual relatively easy, it's

822
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: really hard to make a whole community change their mind.

823
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: But we don't need to do that. All we need

824
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 2: to do is own ourselves and that does add up

825
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 2: to something.

826
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: But Mark on that point though, Mark, I think there's

827
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: like a I think when we talk about this, if

828
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, we need to change wholesale change the

829
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: hunting culture, what we like one of the big things

830
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 3: we really need to do is the perception. So when

831
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 3: you when you mentioned earlier about the haves and the

832
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 3: have nots, it's like, that's that's how it's going to

833
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 3: break down. Some people are going to have a lot

834
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 3: of resources, some people aren't going to have very many.

835
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 3: That's how nature works, right. But in our very specific

836
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 3: instance here, I feel like we would benefit so much

837
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 3: from all being more honest about you know, the easy

838
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 3: hunts we have and the hard hunts we have, because

839
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,760
Speaker 3: it's so easy to try to default and paint yourself

840
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 3: as like such a badass and like this was so

841
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 3: hard and I worked so hard for it when we know.

842
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 2: This for fifteen years.

843
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 3: Dude, some hunts are hard and some are not. And

844
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 3: you know, the messaging from the top down has been

845
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 3: that no matter what, this is a real struggle and

846
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 3: we're lucky to kill our you know, second hundred and

847
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 3: eighty incher this week and you just happened to come

848
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 3: in and you know, never mind that we've been watching

849
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 3: him for seven years and we have you know, you

850
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like if we were more honest

851
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,479
Speaker 3: about just what's really going on, Like how much time

852
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: do you have?

853
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 2: You know?

854
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 3: Like I always think about this with the hunting public guys,

855
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 3: is you know, they're super good hunters. They're good dudes,

856
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 3: but they you need to acknowledge the advantages. Right if

857
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 3: you're if you're in a western river bottom hunt and

858
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 3: you have four or five six people glassing different spots,

859
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 3: good hunters scouting huge advantage And I'm not taking anything

860
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 3: away from them, but the more you're like, listen, if

861
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 3: you think you're going to come out here by yourself

862
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 3: and have the same results. Maybe not, you know, like

863
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 3: it just it's just not going to probably work that way.

864
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 3: And I think, I think we need to change the

865
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 3: perception of what we do because killing big deer is

866
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 3: really easy on good like really good properties, Like that's

867
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 3: a special scenario and so you look at that and go, well,

868
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 3: that one sixty that is not the same kind of

869
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 3: deer that a lot of people are hunting. And I

870
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: think we all inherently know that, but just just to

871
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 3: change like how we look at it and go, yeah,

872
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 3: some people have that and that's great, but that's not

873
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 3: the reality that a lot of people are walking into.

874
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,439
Speaker 3: Like you got to you got to adjust what your

875
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 3: expectations are for your time in the field like that

876
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: that has no bearing on what you're going to experience.

877
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I feel like in my view,

878
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 2: it's always been not silly, like for for folks who

879
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: have or who are killing these big giant deer, I

880
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 2: don't you do your thing? I think everyone, I think

881
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 2: the person in that world Tony probably doesn't feel like

882
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: it's easy. They still feel like they're putting in a

883
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: ton of work. Probably right. I mean, it's a different

884
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 2: kind of work. But I'm telling you, if you talk

885
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: to someone who owns a thousand acres of land, they're

886
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: going to tell you what I've I've spent so many

887
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 2: days on the tractor, I've spent so many days scouting

888
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 2: and stuff. I've spent so many days doing that, and

889
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: they're going to say it's just as valuable as what

890
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: you're doing. So so I get what you're saying, and

891
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: I'm I guess what I'm adding on is that I

892
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 2: like or the argument you're making that resonates the most

893
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 2: is not so much tell that guide to a minute,

894
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 2: it's easy, but rather everybody else, remember to set your

895
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 2: own expectations based on where you're at, what your situation is,

896
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 2: what your goals are, and don't get too wrapped up

897
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 2: in what anybody else is doing. Right, We've all had

898
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: this conversation with the past, like hunt your own hunt

899
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: and try to put on blinders to what everybody else

900
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 2: is doing, because it doesn't matter what Dan's doing or

901
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: what I'm doing. Just focus on you, right, and don't

902
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: get worked up about what's on YouTube or what's on

903
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: the outdoor channel, because that's where these mismatched expectations and

904
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 2: disappointment and frustration comes in, right.

905
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I think and I agree with you, the

906
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 3: pre hunt work part is big, right. If you're a

907
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 3: white to hunter, what you do before the hunt is

908
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 3: the most important stuff, whether you're scouting public land or

909
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 3: you're planting one hundred acres of food plots. But I

910
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 3: think I think the people who do that know that

911
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 3: they're doing that to make the hunting easy. So that

912
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 3: work is not easy. Running a business is not easy,

913
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 3: you know, farm in the land is not easy. I

914
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 3: get that. But the whole reason that that's happening is

915
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 3: so the hunting will be easy, you know what I mean.

916
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 2: And so I think it's they would say that that's

917
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 2: part of the hunting, but I get what you're saying.

918
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, it's just different and it you know,

919
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, again, I'm not they donuts for donuts. People

920
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 3: want to do that and enjoy it great. I'm just saying, like,

921
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 3: let's just I think we have an obligation on our

922
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 3: side of things to just be honest about this stuff.

923
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I want to shift a little bit of

924
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 2: our direction. It's it's going to all kind of tie in.

925
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 2: But there's another whole side of like where our culture

926
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 2: is going. So we've talked kind of about access. We've

927
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: talked about, you know, what we value, whether it be

928
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 2: antlers or the experience or or whatever. We've talked about

929
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 2: that a little bit. I think another big thing that

930
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 2: goes to this idea of like making it easy. Tony

931
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 2: written about this quite a bit over Mediator in the

932
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: last year or two is all these different things we're

933
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 2: doing to make it easier. I think technology is a

934
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 2: big part of that now. So you've got things like,

935
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: you know, cell cameras more and more popular and prevalent,

936
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 2: more technology there, you know, instant photos, live streaming video. Now,

937
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 2: you've got more and more people using thermal scopes going

938
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 2: out there and yeah, well yeah, crossbows are a thing.

939
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 2: Thermal scopes where you've got these no scopes that you

940
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 2: can put on your crossbow or something and basically shoot

941
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 2: after dark if you were so inclined. People are using

942
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: thermal scopes for recovering deer now or just like driving

943
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 2: around and thermal scoping everything to see if there's deer

944
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: in a thicket. You've got a lot of drone use now,

945
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: people using drones to scout properties to do, you know,

946
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 2: see where the deer are at certain times of year. Then,

947
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: of course is the question of using drones to recover deer.

948
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: You've got rifle scope technology now where you can just

949
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 2: zap it at auto range, finds the animal and then

950
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 2: sets your radical to aim exactly where you need to

951
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 2: aim with this wind direction, at this thousand yard distance

952
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: or whatever. There's a whole lot of different specifics, and

953
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: I don't even I don't know what to make of

954
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 2: where all this is going, except for the fact that

955
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 2: it's not going to stop. This is going to continue,

956
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 2: and so do we fight it, do we not fight?

957
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 3: It?

958
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 2: Doesn't matter? Does it not matter? Somebody twenty years ago

959
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: probably would have looked at where we are today and said,

960
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, if that stuff happens, it's going to

961
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 2: ruin hunting. But here we are sitting here today and

962
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 2: we're still hunting, and a lot of people are happy,

963
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: and many people say it's the golden days of whitetail hunting.

964
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 2: So high level, when I bring up all of that stuff, Dan,

965
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 2: what makes your skin tingle, what makes your chest tighten,

966
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 2: what makes you either excited or worried? Where's your head

967
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 2: out when it comes to these things.

968
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 4: I look at it like I'm kind of a purist

969
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,919
Speaker 4: because I grew up hunting in what I would say

970
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 4: is some of the and it's because I was green.

971
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 4: I didn't know, so I made it hard for myself. Well,

972
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 4: it was hard because I didn't understand dear and how dear.

973
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 4: I didn't understand people and how obsessed they got. So

974
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 4: I grew up in a time and that was that

975
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 4: was early on. And then my whole story is that

976
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 4: I hunted for a little bit, became a degenerate, and

977
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 4: then I found hunting again right when I was about

978
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 4: twenty six, and that's when I dove into it.

979
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 3: And that's when I said, I love this. And so.

980
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 4: I feel like, I don't know, I just feel like

981
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 4: as I feel like hunting saved me. Hunting, hunting kind

982
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 4: of course correct in my life and kept me in

983
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 4: the woods and kept me out of bars and then

984
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 4: hanging out with the wrong people. And so I have

985
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 4: a connection to hunting that goes deeper than just antlers.

986
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 4: It's it's something that is like in me, it's like

987
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 4: a part of it's my it's my it's in my heart,

988
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 4: you know. And so when I look at someone and

989
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 4: I and I'm it's this is me judging them. I'm

990
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 4: judging them, and I'm saying, man, you're taking advantage of

991
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 4: this natural resource. You're you're not showcasing the beautiful sunsets,

992
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 4: the fresh air.

993
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 3: You're not like.

994
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 4: There's there's some there's something pure and beautiful about this

995
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 4: hunting and the outdoors. And then when I see companies

996
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 4: taking advantage of that and using that to make dollars,

997
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 4: it becomes muddy for me, and I just I don't

998
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 4: like it.

999
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 3: And so.

1000
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 4: I like hunting because it is a challenge, because it

1001
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 4: is difficult because big bucks just don't walk underneath your stand.

1002
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 4: They don't do that. They don't where I hunt big

1003
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,959
Speaker 4: big deer or any deer. They don't just come into

1004
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 4: a food plot or wherever the food sources. They don't

1005
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 4: just come out and stand in front of you for

1006
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 4: twenty minutes then you shoot them. Right, That just doesn't happen.

1007
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 4: And so when I see someone wanting to make something easier,

1008
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 4: I just kind of laugh at it. And because all

1009
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,879
Speaker 4: they're doing is hurting themselves, right, They're trying to say,

1010
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 4: oh God, I need a weapon that has a longer range,

1011
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 4: so I don't need to get as close, thus risking

1012
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 4: getting blown out. Oh well, I don't want to scout

1013
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 4: because it sucks in August when it's ninety percent humidity.

1014
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 4: I think I'm just going to use this cell camera

1015
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 4: to tell me everything I need to know. Right, But

1016
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 4: all you're doing is missing something. You're missing this whole

1017
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 4: education by time and the stand by time in the woods,

1018
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 4: and and so I'm only comparing all of that to

1019
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 4: me and what my personal likes and dislikes are.

1020
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 2: And that's the trick though, is like, and the where

1021
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 2: I struggle with all this on is we can only

1022
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 2: we're always judging based on where we put ourselves. Like,

1023
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 2: so we've got our thing, which is where I draw

1024
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,280
Speaker 2: my line. So this is what I think is okay.

1025
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 2: But there's always going to be someone who's a little

1026
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: bit more comfortable, and there's always probably gonna be someone

1027
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: who's a little bit less comfortable. Right, There's we can

1028
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 2: sit here on our high horse and say, oh, you

1029
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: shouldn't use that super long range rifle, or you shouldn't

1030
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 2: use that such and such livestream trail camera. But then

1031
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 2: at the same time, there's gonna be somebody else who's

1032
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 2: gonna look at me and say, well, you shouldn't use

1033
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: a cell camera at all, or you shouldn't use a

1034
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 2: compoumbou I only use a tread bill, or you shouldn't

1035
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 2: hunt private access at all, because I only hunt public

1036
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 2: land and that's harder than your permission. So what I

1037
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,919
Speaker 2: don't know, and what I am constantly trying to figure out,

1038
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 2: is how do we as a community wrestle with what

1039
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 2: is appropriate versus not because in the end, we the hunters,

1040
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 2: the community, should be just making those decisions and not

1041
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: the companies. Right oftentimes we'll just go along with the company.

1042
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 2: If the technology is there, we just use it. That's

1043
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: the easy thing to do. But I would say that

1044
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 2: we should rather in some kind of way try to

1045
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: self enforce or try to be the ones who are

1046
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 2: helping direct this stuff versus just what's the next money

1047
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: making thing? Right? But how do we do that in

1048
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 2: a way that isn't just me saying my view on

1049
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 2: this is better than your view, where where I'm AT's

1050
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: better than where you're at. I don't know practically how

1051
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 2: we tackle this as a community because of the fact

1052
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 2: that is inherently such an individual choice that.

1053
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 3: That's where you go with it, though, I think so,

1054
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 3: I think I think you present this message of take

1055
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 3: you know, if you want to use every every advantage

1056
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 3: you can, you know, one hundred yard crossbow, bait, pile,

1057
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 3: cell cameras, whatever. I think we have to just present

1058
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 3: this image of like are you happy because you hear

1059
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 3: a lot of people bitching about their hunting, and so

1060
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 3: is this you know, are is having twelve cell cameras

1061
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 3: out there making you happy because you're not going into

1062
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 3: the woods as much for sure, right Like, you're not scouting,

1063
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 3: you're not putting it in. It's like, you know, there's

1064
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 3: a reason you're going to go run eighteen miles in

1065
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 3: the mountains when you could just buy a metal from Amazon. Sure,

1066
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 3: you know, would cut out the whole training process and

1067
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 3: the race and have the trophy. But it's not the

1068
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 3: same thing, right Like, there's a reason that you're challenging

1069
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 3: yourself that way. So I think I think for some

1070
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 3: people they're out there and they're like, I have, you know,

1071
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 3: five days to see in to hunt because I have

1072
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 3: six kids at home and a demanding job and whatever,

1073
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 3: I want every advantage I can I can get and

1074
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 3: I think there are some people who are looking at

1075
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 3: it going I feel like I should be using a

1076
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 3: lot of this stuff because it promises me an easier

1077
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 3: filled tag, but it's not making me feel better. I'm

1078
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 3: not enjoying it as much. So I think you have

1079
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 3: to look at that. I'm seeing this with some of

1080
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 3: my buddies because they're at the age where they're buying

1081
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 3: properties and they're building them up and the food plots

1082
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 3: and the box lines and all this stuff, and it's

1083
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 3: to the point where they don't really have to scout anymore.

1084
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 3: And that's a big like they're missing this big part

1085
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 3: of whitetail hunting. And it seemed like on paper, you'd

1086
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 3: be like, that's the dream. You've got it made. You know,

1087
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 3: you can go in here and sit on Halloween and

1088
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 3: you're gonna have a great hunt and see a lot

1089
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 3: of deer and maybe kill a big one. But there's

1090
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 3: something missing for some people who need that. So I

1091
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 3: think on an individual level, just like with the hunting media,

1092
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 3: like I think on an individual level, you have to

1093
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 3: go am I happy, like do I enjoy this? And

1094
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 3: kind of have to you have to work with that, and.

1095
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 2: You know, maybe maybe one of the solutions here is

1096
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: leaning into it's it's it's maybe the same solution to

1097
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 2: the whole trophy hunting whatever that I think we've all

1098
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 2: recognized has gone too far in some ways. Rather than

1099
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: bemoaning it or pointing a finger like, oh, you got

1100
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 2: to change, you're the problem, the solution might almost always

1101
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 2: be celebrating the other alternative side, which is like celebrating

1102
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 2: the fact that, man, this other stuff's pretty darn cool too,

1103
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 2: celebrating the fact that the hard work around the scouting

1104
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 2: or the hard work behind the whatever, or the doing

1105
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 2: this without cameras or the doing this with the harder tool,

1106
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 2: celebrating the joy in that, and the fact that doing

1107
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: these things in these different ways without the extra technology

1108
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 2: is worthwhile as well. So it's it's not necessarily bringing

1109
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 2: down someone else, because everyone's gonna do what they're gonna do,

1110
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 2: and we're all gonna draw our own lines in the sand.

1111
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 2: But maybe it's shining a positive light on the value

1112
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: of this alternative way, which is becoming more and more alternative.

1113
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 2: I keep going back to and I don't know if

1114
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 2: you ever can do this, but is there any way

1115
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 2: that we can self enforce or self police or that's

1116
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 2: not the right word. But I think to some degree

1117
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 2: this happened like when drones first showed up on the

1118
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 2: map and it became pretty obvious to everyone, like, man,

1119
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 2: they shouldn't be used to hunt, you shouldn't be allowed

1120
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 2: to use them in real time during the season, And

1121
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:47,919
Speaker 2: a bunch of states put rules in place because there's

1122
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 2: public support for it, very quickly, and we said, man,

1123
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 2: that's that's too far. You know, is there a way

1124
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 2: to do that in today's world. I don't know around

1125
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 2: some of these technologies, but I but I wish there were.

1126
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 2: But again it comes down to my line. The signds different.

1127
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 2: But I mean, you don't know.

1128
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 3: To do it, you'd have to you'd have to link

1129
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 3: some technology to an impact on the resource. You know

1130
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 3: what it is?

1131
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 2: Oh, go ahead, sorry, Tony. I think So here's a

1132
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: specific example that I thought of that I thought would

1133
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 2: be really cool, and I hope some company will do this,

1134
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 2: and this might be a model that we can vote

1135
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 2: with our dollars, right, we can vote with our dollars

1136
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: and our choices. I personally, my line the sand when

1137
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 2: it comes to sell cameras is that I think live

1138
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 2: streaming video, Like seeing what a deer is doing right

1139
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 2: now and acting on that is inappropriate in my view.

1140
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 2: I personally also think that getting a picture right now

1141
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 2: and being able to go do something right now is

1142
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: inappropriate for me. Like that feels icky for me. If

1143
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 2: I were sitting in the tree stand and I got

1144
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 2: a ding on my phone and I looked at it

1145
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: and it said the buck you're after is one hundred

1146
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 2: and fifty yards away there, And if I could slip

1147
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 2: down out of my tree with my rifle and sneak

1148
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 2: over there and shoot him because I know he's right there,

1149
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 2: that feels inappropriate to me personally. So if I were

1150
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 2: in charge of the world, I would say that cell

1151
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 2: cameras should not be able to live stream and they

1152
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 2: should have some level of delay. Personally, for me, I

1153
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 2: would put a twenty four hour delay on pictures. What

1154
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 2: if we could make a fair Chase branded cell camera

1155
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 2: or a certification and so you could say, man, I

1156
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 2: only use fair Chase certified cell cameras, which means there's

1157
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,919
Speaker 2: a twelve hour mandatory delay on everything, So you can't

1158
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 2: see live video, you can't see live photos. Whatever it is. Now,

1159
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,439
Speaker 2: I recognize this is my own personal line in the sand.

1160
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 2: But for me, if you stamped down a trail camera

1161
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 2: and said, man, this is a fair Chase certified camera,

1162
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 2: That'd be the only camera I'd use and I'd be

1163
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 2: pretty stoked about it, and I bet a lot of

1164
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 2: other people would be two. And that'd be like a

1165
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: badge of honor for that product. To use it. It

1166
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 2: could be a marketing plus for that kind of company.

1167
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 2: So rather than a company thinking they need to make

1168
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 2: it easier for hunters to sell more products, instead, we

1169
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 2: would buy products because it makes us a little harder

1170
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 2: for hunters, and we would prefer that product because it

1171
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 2: is a badge of honor. It shows that we are

1172
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 2: willing to limit ourselves in some kind of ways. What

1173
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 2: if you could do that with other technology too, That's

1174
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 2: an idea. Does that resonate with either one of you

1175
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 2: or does that sound stupid?

1176
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 4: I like it right, That's a great example, But my

1177
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 4: gut tells me nobody is on board with that. Like,

1178
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 4: look at this world we live in today where everybody

1179
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 4: gets their satisfaction from a phone. There's no more human interaction.

1180
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 3: This all day.

1181
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 4: People do this all day. My daughter, when I give

1182
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,959
Speaker 4: her one hour a day, on her cell phone. She's

1183
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 4: like this for one hour on it. Okay, it's crack cocaine, right.

1184
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 4: And so you tell someone, hey, here's a cell cam.

1185
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 4: Oh no, no, no, no, no. It does not send

1186
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 4: you pictures. It only sends you pictures at midnight when

1187
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 4: you're sleeping, you kidd meet people do not like general humans.

1188
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:21,439
Speaker 4: They're not going that direction. But when I say that,

1189
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 4: when I say that, I'm saying democracy, that we live

1190
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 4: in a democracy. And if people hate cell cameras, Mark,

1191
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 4: or you want this fair chase cell camera, Mark, you

1192
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 4: know what you get when you live in a democracy.

1193
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 4: You get the opportunity to rally like minded people and

1194
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 4: express that opinion to the Department of Natural Resources. And

1195
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 4: you say, listen me and this one thousand people, we

1196
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 4: don't like that a cell camera sends you something immediately.

1197
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 4: We want restrictions on cell cameras. And here's a thousand

1198
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 4: people the opposite side. They better rally, they better get

1199
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 4: a group of people, like minded individuals to say, well,

1200
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 4: hold on a second. I got one thousand and one

1201
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,439
Speaker 4: people right here, and we are in support of live

1202
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 4: streaming and all of that stuff. And I think a

1203
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 4: lot of it has to do with getting people excited

1204
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 4: about a topic, whether they like it or dislike it,

1205
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 4: getting the information and then that's that's happening right now

1206
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 4: in Iowa, Okay, the Iowa bow Hunters Association, the Iowa

1207
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 4: Sportsman's Club, right, we are we are taking strides because

1208
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 4: we have a community of like minded individuals and this

1209
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 4: is specifically about crossbows.

1210
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 3: Right.

1211
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 4: There's a company out there, and I've said this, I've

1212
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 4: said this before. There's companies out there that are sending

1213
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 4: lobbyists to Iowa in order to get crossbows legalized. During

1214
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 4: the hunting season. They are doing that, or during the

1215
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 4: archery season. Archery season. Now, mind you, Iowa already has

1216
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 4: crossbows across bow season. It's during the late season, muzzleloader season.

1217
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 4: But that's not enough, right, So these companies send lobbyists

1218
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 4: and it is all it is is it's a cost analysis.

1219
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 4: If this law passes in this state, we will make

1220
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 4: X number of dollars. That's what it is, okay. And

1221
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 4: so usually in the past, all of those laws get

1222
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:44,439
Speaker 4: passed without the Department of Natural Resources taken any into

1223
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 4: any data that they have. It's a it's never like hey, guys,

1224
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 4: do you want this or not. And so what's happened

1225
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 4: is the Iowa Bow Hunters Association and some other organizations

1226
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 4: have stepped up and they've said, we don't work not

1227
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 4: the ones calling for this, We don't want this rule

1228
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 4: to happen or these said rules. And so what we've

1229
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 4: done is we've rallied a bunch of people and we've

1230
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 4: gone to our like you said, we've gone to our representatives,

1231
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 4: and we've said this is bullshit, we don't want it.

1232
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 4: And and so far I believe we were on an

1233
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 4: undefeated streak of eleven and zero for bills that this

1234
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:34,920
Speaker 4: group of people disagree with.

1235
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 6: So I ran there, did I answer your question?

1236
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 3: I was going to say something here, Hey, Mark, do

1237
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 3: you think this morning Dan was supposed to take a

1238
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 3: riddle in and he took PCP instead.

1239
01:07:54,680 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 4: I'm telling you this in all serious near. This is

1240
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 4: what I think about, right. I don't have any other

1241
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 4: passions in life my children, and hunting is what I do.

1242
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 4: And so I know you're joking, but I am on

1243
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 4: PCP all the time for natural resources.

1244
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 3: I'm serious, man, No, I love it. So I want

1245
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 3: to just touch on that a little bit. So Mark,

1246
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 3: when you said, when you bring up this idea of

1247
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 3: a of a twenty four hour delay on a cell

1248
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 3: camera fairchase camera. I think the reason that that makes

1249
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 3: the most sense, and some of the stuff Dan's talking

1250
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 3: about makes sense is because what we're gonna do is

1251
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,720
Speaker 3: we're gonna have this technology that we already have, it's

1252
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 3: going to get better and eventually it's going to have

1253
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 3: an impact on the resource or the experience. So they're

1254
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 3: going to retroact, and by that I mean the DNR,

1255
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,680
Speaker 3: you know, State Game Agency is going to retroactively go

1256
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 3: no cell cameras or no you know, because that's the

1257
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 3: only option they have, right blanket ban. And so some

1258
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 3: of this stuff, if you just look in the future,

1259
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 3: it's the same thing with the forward facing sonar and

1260
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 3: fishing right now. If you look into the future, there's

1261
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 3: going to be an impact on the resource eventually because

1262
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 3: it's going to get cheaper, it's going to be more

1263
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 3: ubiquitous across everybody out there, and we're going to have

1264
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 3: to do something. And if they only have one option,

1265
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 3: which is not at all or wholesale, then they're gonna

1266
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 3: ban it. And so I think some of this stuff

1267
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 3: is great, Like I like the idea of bringing a

1268
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 3: logical fight to them and going, we are worried about

1269
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 3: crossbows in Iowa. Here's why we are a representative group

1270
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 3: of bowhunters, and this is what scares us about it.

1271
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 3: Same thing if you're sitting there and go, I don't

1272
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,839
Speaker 3: feel great about livestream cameras. I don't feel great about

1273
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,639
Speaker 3: anybody having, you know, spending one hundred and twenty bucks

1274
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 3: and getting a cell camera that could send pictures to

1275
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 3: their phone instantly. So maybe this is where it starts, like,

1276
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 3: maybe that is what you need to do, is already

1277
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 3: be talking about these options because they're going to come

1278
01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 3: into play at some point. Probably.

1279
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:01,639
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, though, let.

1280
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 3: Me let me, hey, Mark, let me finish a real

1281
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 3: quick thought. There's Tony shut old angel dust here, go ahead, buddy, I.

1282
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 4: Haven't had that. I haven't heard that term since high school.

1283
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 3: Hey, you can't fly man, stay away from the edges

1284
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 3: of the tall buildings, buddy, exactly, exactly. Okay, you know

1285
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 3: I haven't done that. Maybe DARE Drug Abuse Resistance Education

1286
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 3: can sponsor wire to hunt.

1287
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 2: Just say no, Dan, just say no.

1288
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 3: Anyway.

1289
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 4: Anyway, so you were talking about the buzzword. Here is

1290
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 4: fair chase. Okay, there's no definition of fair chase. Because

1291
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 4: in Ohio you can use crossbows and it's legal to

1292
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 4: use bait. In Texas, who knows what the definition of

1293
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:59,600
Speaker 4: fair chase is down there, right, And so every community,

1294
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 4: every state has a different definition of fair chase, yep.

1295
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 4: And and so how are we supposed, I mean, unless

1296
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 4: you have like a flat wall across the entire land,

1297
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 4: no baiting, no crossbows, it is not fair chase to

1298
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 4: use those things or sell cams or whatever the case

1299
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 4: may be. There's no definition. So how are we supposed

1300
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 4: to support or be against something that does not have

1301
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:26,959
Speaker 4: a clear definition.

1302
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. And in it also because these things

1303
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 2: are defined by the individual, it then becomes like this

1304
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 2: whole issue of personal judgment calls. And then it comes

1305
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 2: back to what Tony mentioned at the very top, which

1306
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 2: is all of these internal divisions, right, everything we're talking about,

1307
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 2: many of the things we're talking about here, at least

1308
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 2: crossbows versus non crossbows, or cell cameras versus non cell cameras,

1309
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 2: or private land versus public land. There's a lot of

1310
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 2: us versus I'm saying, right, we've got all these internal conflicts,

1311
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 2: We've got all these internal divisions, which some people would say, Hey,

1312
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 2: we got to quit all the internal squabbling because we've

1313
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 2: got external factors that are also at play that are

1314
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 2: a bigger risk. And if we're tearing ourselves apart, we're

1315
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 2: making ourselves vulnerable to these other things. And there's truth

1316
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 2: in that too, I think, to a degree. So I

1317
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 2: don't know how how we've had this same conversation for years, guys.

1318
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 2: I can remember Dan, you and me talking about this

1319
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 2: a decade ago. We were slightly we were probably slightly

1320
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 2: chubbier and slightly dumber, but basically dumber, basically the same thing.

1321
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 2: And I don't know how you tackle it and change

1322
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 2: it without there being these internal divisions. And maybe that's necessary.

1323
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 2: Maybe it is, okay, I would say it is. You

1324
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 2: have to have some internal squabbling. A family does not

1325
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 2: solve their issues by sitting at the dinner table and

1326
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 2: pushing everything underneath the rug and never bringing up the

1327
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 2: hard topics, right. That just leads to more animosity bubbling

1328
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 2: underneath the surface. That leads to you hard feelings that

1329
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,000
Speaker 2: stay hidden away, and then all of a sudden explode

1330
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 2: that leads to negativity growing and growing and growing. So

1331
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 2: I think Number one a healthy family addresses their differences

1332
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 2: and concerns upfront, and so I personally would say, it

1333
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 2: is okay to have these conversations, and we should have

1334
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 2: these conversations, but they should be handled like a healthy family,

1335
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 2: not the crazy psychotic family dinner at Thanksgiving where people

1336
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 2: are yelling and screaming each other and calling each other names,

1337
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 2: but instead with respect and interest. In the other point

1338
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 2: of view, I think if we can do that, that

1339
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 2: maybe leads to the family or the community moving in

1340
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 2: a better direction, or at least understanding each other better.

1341
01:13:57,800 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 2: But then I go back to this, I think a

1342
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,680
Speaker 2: solution to many of these things that does work that

1343
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 2: is not necessarily like creating unnecessary divides and having me

1344
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 2: be like I'm better than you, you should do it

1345
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 2: my way. I think a lot of this goes back

1346
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 2: to rather than telling people what they shouldn't do or

1347
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 2: what they're doing wrong, or why they're luckier than I am,

1348
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 2: or why it's not fair that you have this and

1349
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 2: I have this, or that you use this technology and

1350
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 2: I can't use the technology. I think in many ways

1351
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 2: the better solution is just leading by positive example in

1352
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 2: the way you think is more positive. So doing the thing,

1353
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 2: celebrating the thing, telling the stories about the thing, sharing

1354
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 2: with your friends and family about the thing that you

1355
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,760
Speaker 2: find valuing in a positive way. So if you think

1356
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 2: that we need to have more access, well then show

1357
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 2: through your example how you can create that and how

1358
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 2: we value that. If you think that it is better

1359
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 2: to have a more restricted weapon when you hunt, that

1360
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:58,559
Speaker 2: you shouldn't use crossbows, or you shouldn't use high power

1361
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 2: rifles or whatever it is, then showcase what you're doing

1362
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,480
Speaker 2: and the value that has and lead through that example

1363
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 2: and make it cool, make it appealing, make it possible

1364
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:10,599
Speaker 2: for others to do it in that kind of way.

1365
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 2: If you want to have a fair chase cell camera,

1366
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 2: well then you know, live by that and make it

1367
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 2: so that your buddies want to do that same thing,

1368
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 2: so that if I could influence my best hunting buddies

1369
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 2: and me, you know, this is the way I've been

1370
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 2: doing things, and actually I enjoy hunting more. I don't

1371
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 2: feel like I'm getting left in the dust because I

1372
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 2: still have a challenge. I still have this, this and this,

1373
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:35,640
Speaker 2: and I think that can lead to positive change in

1374
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 2: a way that's not this like dictatorial finger pointing. Hey,

1375
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,639
Speaker 2: you're taking away my rights. Hey, you're forcing your beliefs

1376
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 2: on me, negative tearing apart kind of thing. Does any

1377
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:49,719
Speaker 2: of that make sense?

1378
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 3: Well, because that's what's coming if we if we don't,

1379
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 3: if you don't get ahead of it, that's what's going

1380
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,799
Speaker 3: to hit you eventually, right, Ye, you know, yeah.

1381
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 4: I think a lot of it. A word that just

1382
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:05,760
Speaker 4: keeps coming to mind as empathy. And I'll give you

1383
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:10,639
Speaker 4: a little bit of an example. I used to have

1384
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 4: different thoughts back in the day about using dogs to hunt,

1385
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 4: all right, and I thought, for some reason, I thought, hey, dude,

1386
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:23,800
Speaker 4: that that wasn't sportsman. That's not sportsmen. Right, you're using

1387
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:25,759
Speaker 4: a dog to track, you know, obviously you're.

1388
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:26,799
Speaker 3: Gonna get it or whatever. Whatever.

1389
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 4: My dumb ass thoughts were back then, and it was

1390
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:32,640
Speaker 4: because I was uneducated about the topic. And then I

1391
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:35,639
Speaker 4: met a you know, then you meet guys like Clay Nucombe,

1392
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:40,479
Speaker 4: who is probably one of the nicest people that I've

1393
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:44,880
Speaker 4: ever met in my entire life. And then I imagine

1394
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 4: a law being passed where Clay Nukeomb cannot use dogs

1395
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 4: to hunt. You know how bum that dude would be

1396
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 4: if if you took that and so took that from

1397
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 4: him along with some of the other people in the

1398
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 4: hound hunting community that I've met throughout the years, and

1399
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 4: they these are nice people. And I'm sure there's someone

1400
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 4: out there who shoots a crossbow that is extremely nice

1401
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 4: and pleasant to be around, same with you know, sell

1402
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,120
Speaker 4: cameras or you know, you know things like that.

1403
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 3: And and you just you just.

1404
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 4: Got to go meet the people, right have a have

1405
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,800
Speaker 4: a discussion. We just live in a world right now

1406
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 4: where it's like I am Republican, you are Democrat, I

1407
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 4: hate you, or vice versa or whatever your whatever your

1408
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 4: belief is. People just die on the sword all the time.

1409
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 4: They don't ever want to have a conversation with their

1410
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 4: friend or dude, you know what me.

1411
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 3: You get it right now, you get it, you know

1412
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 3: what I mean?

1413
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 2: And so.

1414
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 3: Can I comment on that?

1415
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 2: Yes? Please?

1416
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's amazing because I always think Clay is

1417
01:17:58,520 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 3: such an.

1418
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:05,559
Speaker 6: Assholes he's two side. Probably No, Clay's a wonderful, wonderful person.

1419
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 3: But what you say there, Dan is way more important

1420
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 3: than it may be being presented, at least in my eyes.

1421
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:16,679
Speaker 3: Like just think about your hunting when you started going

1422
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:21,160
Speaker 3: to South Dakota and experiencing an environment that is not Iowa,

1423
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 3: and you're like, I want to be here, I want

1424
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 3: to hunt. And then you think, okay, I am against

1425
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 3: hound hunting for deer or hound hunting for bears or whatever.

1426
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 3: And then you start to meet hound hunters and see

1427
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 3: how passionate they are and you go, Okay. Exposure to

1428
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 3: all this stuff opens your mind a lot. And so

1429
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 3: one of the things we do is hunters, which is

1430
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:45,640
Speaker 3: really bad for us. This hit home for me. I

1431
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 3: was at a I was at a meeting here in Minnesota.

1432
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:50,240
Speaker 3: This the Minnesota d and R was doing a little

1433
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 3: tour and they were going to do some changes to

1434
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 3: the deer season and there's some proposals out there, and

1435
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 3: so I went to one of these up here in

1436
01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 3: the cities and I don't remember, you know, fifty sixty

1437
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 3: people in this room. DNR makes their presentation, everybody has

1438
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 3: a chance to talk, and what blew my mind was

1439
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:11,839
Speaker 3: almost to a person in that audience, their only concern

1440
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:15,560
Speaker 3: when they asked a question was on my forty acres.

1441
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 3: I don't see very many of this, or on the

1442
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:20,680
Speaker 3: at where our cabin is.

1443
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:24,599
Speaker 6: We don't see this, or we've always had this. It

1444
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 6: was a very it's very easy to just.

1445
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:31,719
Speaker 3: Look at hunting through the lens of this little world

1446
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 3: that you live in. That's your hunting spot, that's all

1447
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:37,799
Speaker 3: you do. And as soon as you expand your horizons

1448
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 3: a little bit and do some other stuff, you realize, like,

1449
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:43,839
Speaker 3: there's a pretty big world out there beyond the borders

1450
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 3: of the property you're used to hunting. And I kind

1451
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 3: of think that's an anecdote for a lot of this

1452
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:51,479
Speaker 3: stuff of being like I would vote away you know,

1453
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 3: your ability or your opportunity to use this kind of

1454
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:56,759
Speaker 3: technology or to use this kind of thing or hunt

1455
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 3: this kind of way, because I don't do it. But

1456
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:01,960
Speaker 3: as soon as you star are traveling and getting even

1457
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 3: in your own county, like going from your private place

1458
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 3: to a public land spot to hunt rabbits or something like,

1459
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:10,800
Speaker 3: anything you do that opens you up to these other

1460
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:13,800
Speaker 3: experiences changes how you view this stuff. And I think

1461
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,080
Speaker 3: that I think in hunting it's so easy to just

1462
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 3: get sort of like tunnel vision on our are what

1463
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 3: we want and where we hunt.

1464
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that for sure. So if if

1465
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:32,519
Speaker 2: I were to distill everything we've talked about, three things

1466
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 2: bubble to the surface. For me, like three takeaways. And

1467
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:37,640
Speaker 2: I'm curious if these are like the three truths that

1468
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 2: you guys called out from here. But I think number

1469
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,680
Speaker 2: one and I guess what I'm trying to do here

1470
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 2: is set a stage for where this conversation continues to

1471
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 2: go for because I think that's the thing with any

1472
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:54,599
Speaker 2: conversation around culture, ethics, our community, fair chase, all these

1473
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 2: things related to the culture of hunting. There's no end all,

1474
01:20:58,160 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 2: be all right, We're not going to solve all the

1475
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:02,639
Speaker 2: problems today. Nobody can solve all the problems or figure

1476
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 2: things out today or this year. It's an ongoing conversation,

1477
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:10,240
Speaker 2: it's an ongoing process. It's a fluid thing, right, And

1478
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 2: so I think number one is the fact that we

1479
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 2: all have to be engaged in that fluid thing. We

1480
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:17,920
Speaker 2: need to be aware of the fact that there is

1481
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:21,640
Speaker 2: this culture that we are a part of, and it

1482
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,680
Speaker 2: is going somewhere, and we can either bury our head

1483
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 2: in the sand and just go along with the float,

1484
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 2: or we can choose to engage in it and be

1485
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:32,240
Speaker 2: a part of that direction. Right, I would rather be

1486
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:36,679
Speaker 2: on the boat paddling versus floating with my head down.

1487
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 2: So I would say number one takeaway from This for

1488
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 2: me is like, there is a thing going the culture

1489
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:44,559
Speaker 2: of hunting that will impact the future of this activity

1490
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 2: in this lifestyle, and whether it's around in the future,

1491
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 2: whether it's something we want our kids to be involved

1492
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:53,679
Speaker 2: in the future, et cetera. So be a part of it,

1493
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 2: don't just let it go flowing past you. That's number

1494
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:00,799
Speaker 2: one to me. Number two, I think is this idea

1495
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:06,439
Speaker 2: of remembering, as you said, Dante, to have empathy with others,

1496
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 2: which is the idea of empathy is just looking at

1497
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 2: things from other people's perspective and remembering that everything doesn't

1498
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 2: revolve around just you. And like you said, Tony, it's

1499
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 2: not just what's happening on your property, not just what

1500
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 2: you think about things. But there are these different ways

1501
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 2: of looking at the world. There are these different places

1502
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 2: we come to the world from. There are these different

1503
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:29,240
Speaker 2: backgrounds and context. So when we talk about our culture,

1504
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 2: when we talk about fair chase or hunting decisions or

1505
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:36,600
Speaker 2: access or anything, have empathy with others and let that

1506
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:39,680
Speaker 2: be a way that guides this engagement that you have.

1507
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 2: And then finally, I think that in a lot of ways,

1508
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 2: if you see a change that you think needs to happen,

1509
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 2: in the culture in where hunting is going. I think

1510
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:51,200
Speaker 2: in many ways we are going to do better if

1511
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:54,719
Speaker 2: we try to influence with the carrot and not the stick.

1512
01:22:55,800 --> 01:23:00,600
Speaker 2: So rather than you're wrong, screw you, you can't have

1513
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 2: this thing, maybe we can lead with the lead by example,

1514
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 2: show the positives of this alternative way. I think at

1515
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 2: least that's one of the things I'm coming away from

1516
01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 2: this with is that that has a possible that that

1517
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 2: can help us avoid these internal divisions and more so

1518
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 2: lead our community in a way in a positive fashion

1519
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:22,800
Speaker 2: by making it the cool thing, or the desirable thing,

1520
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:23,960
Speaker 2: or the valuable thing.

1521
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 3: You know.

1522
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 2: This is this is where we started the trophy hunting thing.

1523
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 2: Twenty years ago, there were probably some people who wanted

1524
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 2: there to be more big deer on the landscape. Right

1525
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 2: thirty years ago, there were folks that that, I want

1526
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:41,519
Speaker 2: to kill more big deer. I want to see boon

1527
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 2: and krack of bucks. I want to have five and

1528
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 2: a half year old deer whatever, right, And there's different

1529
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:50,479
Speaker 2: ways to do that. You could enforce regulations to make

1530
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:54,680
Speaker 2: you have to pass on, you know, small deer or

1531
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:58,679
Speaker 2: certain antler point restrictions. There's ways to you know, enforce

1532
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 2: different rules on a hunting. There's all those kinds of rules,

1533
01:24:01,439 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 2: and maybe that helps to some degree, But the biggest

1534
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:07,160
Speaker 2: thing that I think led to their being more older

1535
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:10,200
Speaker 2: deer around now today, larger deer. All that stuff is

1536
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:13,479
Speaker 2: quantifiably true. You know what changed over the last twenty

1537
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:15,040
Speaker 2: five years. It wasn't that there was a bunch of

1538
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 2: regulations put in place across the country that really changed

1539
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:20,160
Speaker 2: the game. It was that the culture change. It was

1540
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 2: that media and people made it cool and desirable and

1541
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 2: aspirational to see bigger deer, to hunt bigger deer. You

1542
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 2: saw as possible, You saw the people were having fun

1543
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:31,720
Speaker 2: with it, and everybody wanted to be a part of it.

1544
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:34,879
Speaker 2: What if we could make the same kind of cultural

1545
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:37,559
Speaker 2: change around these other things that we think matter by

1546
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:42,200
Speaker 2: way of making it aspirational, cool, exciting, valuable, not by

1547
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:44,840
Speaker 2: putting some regulation or restriction or saying you can't do

1548
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 2: this thing. I'm not saying we shouldn't have regulations and

1549
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 2: all that we should, but maybe we can make the

1550
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 2: same kind of positive difference by changing the culture through

1551
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,040
Speaker 2: our own example. And that doesn't apply just to the

1552
01:24:58,040 --> 01:24:59,600
Speaker 2: three of us because we're in media. I think the

1553
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 2: same can be applied to my buddy who lives in

1554
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:04,320
Speaker 2: southern Michigan, who has a whole bunch of other buddies,

1555
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:06,840
Speaker 2: and who goes to the wild Game banquet and who

1556
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 2: shares his pictures on social media. That person has a

1557
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:13,639
Speaker 2: level of influence too. And maybe that's a third thing

1558
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,400
Speaker 2: that I'm taking away from this conversation and wanting to

1559
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 2: carry on as this this month goes forward. Those are

1560
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:22,679
Speaker 2: the three things to me. Do you guys have anything

1561
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:26,879
Speaker 2: else you would add to that kind of the takeaways

1562
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:28,519
Speaker 2: for folks to kind of be thinking about, or is

1563
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:30,800
Speaker 2: there anything I said that you guys think is off

1564
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 2: the rails.

1565
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 4: I think hunters have to have start to have internal

1566
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 4: conversations with themselves. I have it all the time, right.

1567
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:44,720
Speaker 4: You know, most people who listen to my podcast know

1568
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 4: my stance on crossbows. But I do have a heart,

1569
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:52,839
Speaker 4: believe it or not, and I do think of people

1570
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 4: and it would be like would.

1571
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 3: This benefit them?

1572
01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 4: Would would it get them out in the woods more?

1573
01:25:58,160 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 3: You know?

1574
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 4: Am I being self on some of these things? And

1575
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:08,560
Speaker 4: I think it all it all really starts with ourselves

1576
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 4: and our thoughts and views on certain things. And then

1577
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 4: you can say to yourself, how much is this, how

1578
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 4: much do is this important to me? How much do

1579
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:23,360
Speaker 4: I wait this my ideology towards it, towards these things,

1580
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 4: And then you can say to yourself, you know what,

1581
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 4: I kind of have a problem with sell cams or

1582
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:33,440
Speaker 4: I kind of have a problem with this rule or regulation,

1583
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:36,839
Speaker 4: and then you can then you can say, man, I'm

1584
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:39,960
Speaker 4: just not a fan of it. Here's why I'm not

1585
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:43,320
Speaker 4: a fan of it, because you like I hate to

1586
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:45,800
Speaker 4: say it, but there's times where back in the day,

1587
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 4: I used to just have a blind opinion with no

1588
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:51,479
Speaker 4: information to back it up. And ultimately what I did

1589
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 4: is I made myself look really stupid. And I mean

1590
01:26:57,280 --> 01:27:02,560
Speaker 4: well thought out, well thought out idea and thoughts on

1591
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 4: how you make your decisions and then how you express

1592
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:10,240
Speaker 4: those decisions to another group of people I think are

1593
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:10,959
Speaker 4: really important.

1594
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think, Tony? Any final thoughts?

1595
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 3: I think we should have had Steve Ranella on this podcast.

1596
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:24,280
Speaker 2: So we Steve. Steve would have put it much more

1597
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,160
Speaker 2: articulately and be way less fun though than we had.

1598
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:30,800
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, he's so boring. But what I'm saying is

1599
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 6: just just big words. Like he just used big words, right,

1600
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:34,679
Speaker 6: but if.

1601
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:38,640
Speaker 3: You're talking about changing the hunting culture, you know, I

1602
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,280
Speaker 3: mean it's undeniable that a guy like that has such sway,

1603
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 3: you know, And so I mean it's kind of a joke,

1604
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:45,960
Speaker 3: but really I do agree with you, like I do

1605
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 3: think we have a chance, Like I think we have

1606
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:51,600
Speaker 3: a chance to change how people view this first without

1607
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:55,160
Speaker 3: going to extremes of banning this or that, or you know,

1608
01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:59,519
Speaker 3: advocating for something to be taken away, because that's this

1609
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:01,600
Speaker 3: is the thing that's biting us in the ass. And

1610
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:03,880
Speaker 3: you're going to see this in Colorado next year, and

1611
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 3: you know, we we want something. So we're like, we

1612
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:11,120
Speaker 3: want fewer people out there because I want a better

1613
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:15,599
Speaker 3: experience that comes with consequences. Like that's not a free

1614
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 3: play for everyone. And you know, you saw that in Kansas.

1615
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:20,920
Speaker 3: I think it was last year, two years ago, when

1616
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:24,320
Speaker 3: they banned trail cameras on public land. It's like the

1617
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 3: private land hunters are great, screw them whatever. But when

1618
01:28:27,479 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 3: you when you advocate for something going away, it's going

1619
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 3: away for good typically, So that's not something to take

1620
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 3: lightly like it's just just because it doesn't affect you.

1621
01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 3: Kind of like what we talked about earlier. So I think,

1622
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:43,760
Speaker 3: like to Dan's point too, we should be careful with

1623
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 3: this stuff. Like if you're sitting there and you're like

1624
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 3: I hate this or I love this, like you know,

1625
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:52,360
Speaker 3: put yourself in somebody else's shoes. Like there's a lot

1626
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:55,040
Speaker 3: of different individual experiences happen out there. So I think

1627
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 3: that the most dangerous thing we do is quickly decide

1628
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:02,360
Speaker 3: to cancel something or quickly decide to take something away

1629
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:05,080
Speaker 3: because it feels like it will benefit us in the

1630
01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 3: short term, because you're you're taking that away from somebody,

1631
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:11,080
Speaker 3: and that's gonna affect somebody in a negative way. So

1632
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:13,200
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, you're like, oh, you have the power

1633
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 3: now because you're on private land in Kansas and it

1634
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:18,160
Speaker 3: doesn't affect you. Well, guess what what if those public

1635
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 3: land hunters are those people just they mount an offensive

1636
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 3: against baiting, and you're like, oh, well, now this is

1637
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:26,479
Speaker 3: an issue that affects me. And so I think we

1638
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 3: just have to be very aware of that stuff, like

1639
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:31,280
Speaker 3: when something goes away, when the government's like no, no,

1640
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 3: you don't have this anymore. It's freaking gone, and we

1641
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:35,400
Speaker 3: got to be careful about that.

1642
01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:40,679
Speaker 4: I also, I think there's two sides of every story too, right,

1643
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:43,800
Speaker 4: And I mean for every and take this how you

1644
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:47,479
Speaker 4: want to take it, But for every Steve Ranella, there's

1645
01:29:47,479 --> 01:29:54,480
Speaker 4: a Matt Renella, you know what I mean. And so somehow, somehow,

1646
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,760
Speaker 4: those those people have to come together and have a

1647
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:03,599
Speaker 4: conversation in community, kate with each other. There's there's the public,

1648
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:07,960
Speaker 4: the private, there's you know, you you pick the outliers

1649
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:12,320
Speaker 4: in each thing, you know, in each category, those people

1650
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 4: need to have a conversation with each other.

1651
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:18,920
Speaker 2: I think that's that's a good place to leave it

1652
01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 2: in that we have to engage on these things, like

1653
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:26,519
Speaker 2: we have to have these conversations, and it's there's a

1654
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:29,760
Speaker 2: big difference between having a conversation versus yelling at each

1655
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:34,080
Speaker 2: other across social media, right, And so I think I

1656
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 2: think that is a really powerful thing that we can

1657
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:38,800
Speaker 2: all try to do a little bit more, is like

1658
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 2: engage in real, open conversations with people about these things

1659
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:47,200
Speaker 2: and recognize that screaming at people, name calling, that doesn't

1660
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:51,000
Speaker 2: get us anywhere. But having a little bit of empathy,

1661
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:55,160
Speaker 2: trying to understand other people talking about these things, trying

1662
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 2: to be a part of the solution, lead by example,

1663
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:03,680
Speaker 2: engage that's going to take us into a direction where

1664
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:07,120
Speaker 2: I think we will have a more long term future

1665
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:11,120
Speaker 2: for this lifestyle, hopefully healthy resources that we can enjoy,

1666
01:31:11,880 --> 01:31:14,839
Speaker 2: and you know, all the other good stuff that we value.

1667
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:19,439
Speaker 2: So this is a starting point. This is a beginning

1668
01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:21,720
Speaker 2: to a several week conversation with some other folks that

1669
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:24,639
Speaker 2: will hopefully be much smarter than the three of us.

1670
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:27,519
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't know if we brought any

1671
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:30,080
Speaker 2: answers to the table. We asked some questions. I don't

1672
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 2: know if we have answers, but maybe these other people will.

1673
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 2: So I appreciate you too helping me get some thoughts

1674
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:40,040
Speaker 2: and some questions bubbling up and boiling around in the

1675
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:43,200
Speaker 2: heads that our listeners will hopefully be engaged in themselves

1676
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:47,719
Speaker 2: in these coming days and weeks. Thank you, gentlemen.

1677
01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 3: Thank you Mark.

1678
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:53,280
Speaker 2: I love you, Love me too, buddy.

1679
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:54,800
Speaker 3: Hey Mark, quick here, do you think the next time

1680
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:57,280
Speaker 3: we get together like this it'll be an intervention for Dan.

1681
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:01,800
Speaker 2: Usually to talk about that stuff off air?

1682
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:06,160
Speaker 3: Total, I'm just gonna email you some links to some

1683
01:32:06,280 --> 01:32:10,880
Speaker 3: rehab facilities the next time I log on, and there's

1684
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 3: like a therapist with you two. And you guys have

1685
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:14,600
Speaker 3: to read a note to me.

1686
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:18,200
Speaker 4: It's like, dear Dan, you're so bright, but sometimes the

1687
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 4: darkness creeps in and you're violent.

1688
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:23,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, so make sure you guys tune in next time.

1689
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,800
Speaker 2: All right, And that's a wrap. Thanks for being here.

1690
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 2: I hope we gave you a few things to think

1691
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:36,240
Speaker 2: about as we move forward and until next week, thank

1692
01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 2: you for being here and stay wired. Don