1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: I've never told your protection of I her radio. So 3 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: today is a Friday, January. Uh, as we record this, 4 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: the inauguration is coming. And I know we've asked you 5 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: before about power suits, but do you have like a 6 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: favorite pants suit. It doesn't necessarily have to be yours. 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: It could be like a pant suit of history, you 8 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: know what I do actually have a story. So in 9 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: high school, I was in drama and one of the 10 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: roles I got was from Noises Off, which is what 11 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: a great little play um, And we had to choose 12 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: our own wardrobe. And one of the things one of 13 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: the characters that I played, which was a character within 14 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: the character, because Noise's office about a stage in a 15 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: play is uh, she wore wore a power suit or 16 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: she wears a suit. And I was instructed by my 17 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: drama teacher, go get you a skirt and suit. And 18 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: I went through and looked through the magazines and it 19 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: was at that point that the power suit, the pants 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: suit was a pretty big deal and people were wearing it. 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: It was during the era of Bill Clinton and Hillary 22 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,639 Speaker 1: was in office as the first Lady and she dawned 23 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: on those pants suits, so I guess it became a 24 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: fashion thing. So it was around that time when we 25 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: were trying to find outfits and that was on all 26 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: of the magazines, and because I am very self conscious 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: in my legs, I was like, yes, I want a 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: pant suit. And I had actual argument with my drama 29 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: teacher because she did not feel like it was gonna 30 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: be feminine enough. I didn't think it was gonna work, 31 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: and she kept saying no, no, no, and I went 32 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: ahead and bought both the skirt and the pants, and 33 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: I won because when I put it on, I looked 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: good in my little pants suit for the whole night, 35 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: and she was like, you're right, You're right. She even 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: brought me a candy bar because she lost that argument essentially. 37 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, so I fought to put in a pant 38 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: suit for a feminine role because that she thought it 39 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: wasn't going to be feminine enough, which is always an argument, right, 40 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, so I fought for that because I thought 41 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: it made me look better. I guess I was more, 42 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: I was less tough, conscious, and even more comfortable. Was black, 43 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: of course, yeah, I wait for the straight black with 44 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: I think I had a white shirt, pearls, all of that. 45 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: I went all in for it. Yeah, I feel like 46 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: that was one of my triumphs with a pants suit. 47 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: That is a triumph pants suit. I'm very happy to 48 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: hear this. And yeah, that's interesting because I remember, Um, 49 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: I had to buy My mom was so into when 50 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: I was gonna go intern with the European Union. She 51 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: was like, We've got to get you some professional outfits 52 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: and she was like taking me all these places and 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: at the I'm I did because I was in I 54 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: was young college at the time, and I did. I 55 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: was sort of grappling with my ideas of feminism and 56 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: what it what I thought it meant for me to 57 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: be a woman, and I did have those hang ups 58 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: about pant suits. I was like, I like them, but 59 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: what messages it sting? Is it sending that I'm like 60 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: a man hating feminist And I'm like in this vein 61 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: of Hillary Clinton, who I really had no no hatred 62 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: for the time, but I knew people did and people 63 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: associated it with her and um, but I was also 64 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: with you where I was like, but I could sit 65 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: so much. I remember thinking that, like, I can sit 66 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: and I want to worry about flashsics. Someone actually like, 67 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: do you have to mutch more mobility? Yeah? I think 68 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: for me it was kind of that I was a 69 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: self self conscious be more comfortable because I could just 70 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: walk and do what I needed to in it. And plus, yeah, 71 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: it was comfortable because I feel like sometimes with the skirts, 72 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: especially like pencil skirts, you have tottle movement. Yes, yes, 73 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: And I bought some pencil skirts for that whole thing, 74 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: and I like them and they're compute on me, but 75 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: they're definitely like a I'd rather be wearing the pants suit. 76 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: The pencil skirt is a rarer occasion. So yeah, given 77 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: that we have Kamala Harris, first woman vice President, being 78 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: inaugurated and all this discussion about pant suits and power dressing, 79 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: which I do still find a little silly. All right, 80 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: I checked it, yes, and checked it, which I love that. 81 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the way that is this thing that I 82 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: personally dove. Um, But we wanted to bring back this 83 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: classic episode for you on pant suit power dressing, so 84 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: please enjoy. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you from 85 00:04:52,520 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 86 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline and earlier this week, or 87 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: if you're listening to this podcast months or years after 88 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: it came out. The episode right before this one is 89 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: an interview with Jessica Bennett, who wrote the book Feminist 90 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: Fight Club, which is a guide to a sexist workplace, 91 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: and of course it addresses office attire because there are 92 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: so many gender politics wrapped up with our workplace dress codes. Um, 93 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: there's actually another episode that we recorded quite some time 94 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: ago now about uh female lawyers dress codes in particular. 95 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: This can be a challenging line for a lot of women, 96 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: especially if you have a body shape that accentuates your 97 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: breasts in your butt that it can be challenging to 98 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: dress quote unquote appropriately for the workplace and get taken seriously. 99 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: And way back in the day when women were first 100 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: trying to make it to a cubicle, already, pants suit 101 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: seemed like one of the only ways to do that. Yeah, 102 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: it was a way to sort of as inconspicuously as 103 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: possible enter the boys club that was the American office 104 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: or really in the office. And it seems like this 105 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: presidential election in is really a pant suit heavy election 106 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: because you got Hillary Clinton running and Hillary is famous 107 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: for now and totally embraces the pants suit. Oh yeah, 108 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: it's part of her brand if you go on her 109 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: uh store on her website. She even has a pant 110 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: suit T shirt. The pants sold separately, but it's just 111 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: like a T shirt that looks like one of her blazers. 112 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: It's even got a little Hillary brooch on it. When 113 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: she first got on Twitter years ago, her bio included 114 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: pant suit aficionado. Yeah. Her first Instagram photo was from 115 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: July four and it was her trying to pick between 116 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: a red, white or blue pant suit. And Megan Garber 117 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: wrote about this over at the Atlantic, because of course 118 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: that there's going to be a pant suit think piece. 119 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: It's at the Atlantic. Um. But Hillary Clinton has received, 120 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: as you well know if you've listened to our episode 121 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: about her, has received so much scrutiny over her wardrobe 122 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: ever since she first came into the public eye and Arkansas, 123 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: and essentially what the American public has told Hillary Clinton 124 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: for decades now is that we don't like anything she wears. 125 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: You know, it's either trying too hard or it's too frumpy, 126 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: it's too masculine, and it's too head bandy. I really 127 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: don't understand all of the panned to scrunchy to scrunchy 128 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: scrunchy Gate, although ps I did spot some scrunches on 129 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: the subway last week in New York. Dude, everything comes 130 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: back in fashion, but yeah. Garba writes about how Hillary's 131 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: pants suit is basically an effort to be both defiant, 132 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: she says, and conciliatory. So I'm defiant and then I 133 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: am a woman wearing pants a pant suit. I'm power dressing. 134 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: But it's also a way of saying, hey, we don't 135 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: have to talk about my clothes every single time, because 136 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: if I literally wear a pant suit every time I 137 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: come out, eventually that headline is going to get a 138 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: real tired. Right. It's like someone thinking they're fresh by 139 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: writing something about Donald Trump's hair, Right, I can't. It's 140 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: it's just the same to pay we know. So it's 141 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: not only though the pant and the blazer. Yes I 142 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: did do the Stacy London singular pant right there. But 143 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: also Megan Garber notes how the neckline of her blouses 144 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: have also risen, particularly since two thousand seven, when somehow 145 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: it became headline news even talked about on Meet the 146 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: Press that week. That then Senator Hillary Clinton, or something 147 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: that showed hint of cleavage. Oh my god, a woman 148 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: with breasts. It's like the time Condoleeza Rice wore those 149 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: knee boots. Oh god, I still love this knee boobulous outfit. Yeah, 150 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean, come on, it's like it's like 151 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: people will talk about anything other than policy. I mean, 152 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: we've all seen the graphic that is the rainbow of 153 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton in all of her different pants suits, and 154 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: I love it. And it's actually the cover image on 155 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: a friend's Pride Week Facebook invitation. Love it. But Angela 156 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: Merkel also has her own similar graphic I've seen, like, 157 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: ranging from the whitest white to the blackest black, in 158 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: every shade of crimson or plum in between. Well, and 159 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: speaking of the colors, you had to love the symbolism too. 160 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: At the Democratic National Convention when Hillary comes out for 161 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: her acceptance speech wearing a white pants suit New Beginnings 162 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: and also white was the color that Suffrages swore. Oh yeah, 163 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: it gives me chills just talking about it now. I know. Well, 164 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: because the suffragists colors were green, white, and violet because 165 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: g stood forgive, dew stood for women, and violet stood 166 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: for vote. Oh my gosh, I love that so much. 167 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: Like progressive women using acronyms like come on and colors 168 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 1: and colors and both the gendered and sta this symbols 169 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: wrapped up in pants suits, of course, translates off of 170 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: the political trail as well. This is something that Samantha 171 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: Sultzer devoted her entire thesis to. In Yes As Sultzer 172 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: showed a whole bunch of business people UM pictures of 173 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: women in eight outfits ranging from the business suit, the 174 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: power pants suit all the way to um like a 175 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: knee skirt with a cow necked blouse, and far and 176 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: away the fitted pants suit with blazer was viewed as 177 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: the most powerful, confident, modern, respected outfit of all UM. 178 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: The second was like pants in a in a in 179 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: a top, or pants and a button up blouse. It 180 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, yeah, she's professional or whatever. UM Versus 181 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: the fitted above the knee skirt with a sleeved caw 182 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: nick sut, which was perceived as the least respect did, 183 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: least conservative, least appropriate, and least professional, which I think 184 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: is so interesting because part of this whole discussion is 185 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: like are you too masculine? Are you too feminine. And 186 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: all this tells me is that like there's no winning 187 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: because yeah, you know, you wear a pant suit to 188 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: a job interview or if you're the boss or whatever. 189 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: But we have this whole history of whoever it is, 190 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: a boss or a fashion magazine telling us that something 191 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: is over, that it's unacceptable, or it's it's the lay 192 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: of the land. At the law of the land, you've 193 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: got to look like this this one way or another. 194 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: And so I just think it's funny that this study 195 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: is like pantsuit with the blazers the only way to 196 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: go when you've had women like Hillary Clinton being slammed 197 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: for pants suits forever and that Caroline is why I 198 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: prefer the office overall, because it just confuses people. What 199 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: would Grace Jones say? Oh my god. So yeah, when 200 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: looking for power suits, you know, first of all, you 201 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: say pants suit, I immediately think Hillary Clinton. I can't 202 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: think of anybody else when I hear power suit. I 203 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: think the women of the movie Working Girl. But then 204 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: I think of Grace Jones, eighties phenom who just recently 205 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: resurfaced in pop culture because she released a memoir um 206 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: but look for her cover of her album Nightclubbing from 207 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: the eighties, like she's a bad ass and that is 208 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 1: a power suit if I've ever seen one. No one 209 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: slays ablaze quite like Grace Jones. That's a good way 210 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: to put it. But okay, so do we even have time? 211 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, we talked about the eighties 212 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: working girl Grace Jones. Do you even have time to 213 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: go back and cover all the fashion history to talk 214 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: about the origin of suits. We better make the time. 215 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: We will make the time, because that's what this whole 216 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: episode is dedicated to. Basically, So where did suits even 217 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: come from? Though? Well from sumptuary laws kind of. So 218 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: in six sixties, six old King Charles the Second in 219 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: England passes these sumptuary laws, which are essentially regulating the 220 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: types of food and clothing, even furniture the people of 221 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: various classes are allowed or required to wear or consume. 222 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: So Charles Old Old Chuck the Second demands that dudes 223 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: wear waistcoats, trousers and ties like the French, because I 224 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: guess what, at the time, like everyone's like, oh, well, 225 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, do as the French do this? They seem cool. 226 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: It's like dressing, you know, in high school, like the 227 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: popular kids. Something you can try to. You just, yeah, 228 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: you just summed up centuries of European history. I think 229 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: I can hear the letters coming in, but yeah, um, 230 00:14:54,560 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: King Charles is fashion outlook basically evolved into men's modern suits, 231 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: which of course then evolved into women's suits eventually. And 232 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: art historian and Hollander, who wrote the book Sex in Suits, 233 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: talks a lot about how women's fashion has followed men's 234 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: from the big the fru through all the makeup and 235 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: curlers and heels and the visible effort to look made 236 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: up to the modern, streamlined suited appearance. And I've I've 237 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: got to say, like, I don't know how much of 238 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: the Sex and Suits book you went through. Kristen. I 239 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: had to stop because it is written and I really 240 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: don't mean this to be insulting. And Hollander, if you're listening, 241 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: I have so much appreciation for your contribution to art 242 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: history and fashion history. But this book is the text 243 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: equivalent of someone sitting in an armchair with a brandy 244 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: in one hand and a cigarette dangling out of a 245 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: long cigarette holder and the other it's very like then, 246 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: It's so so A book that might make for a 247 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: better podcast sounds like maybe just its tone and its 248 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: writing style is very very interesting. Um but yeah. She 249 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: She talks in her book about how male dress, in 250 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: her opinion, has always been essentially more advanced than female 251 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: dressed throughout fashion history, intended to lead the way and 252 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: set the standard to make the aesthetic propositions to which 253 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: female fashion responded. Uh. She says that men's close since 254 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: the Middle Ages have been more formally interesting, though less innovated, 255 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: and less conservative than women's and she says that the 256 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: invention of modern suits is a good example of this 257 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: trend well, and another trend along with that that I 258 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: think explains why guys have been the fashion trend setters 259 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Men were wearing hair bows 260 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: and carrying handbags and wearing high heels before women were. 261 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: Is because you see women's fashion evolve and skirts start 262 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: to give way to more fitted clothing and bifurcated garments 263 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: that would eventually give way to pants. Um as we 264 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: are able to enjoy more mobility, right, exactly, so in 265 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century we start to move around a little bit. 266 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: Finally we finally stand up from our fainting couch. Um. 267 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: And the evolution, though doesn't start from the bottom like drake, 268 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: but it starts at the top. So European women started 269 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: wearing tailored jackets with long skirts for outdoor activities like riding, archery, 270 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: and walking. And of course I'm sure that writing was 271 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: side saddle because a stride, no you're do you belong 272 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: on the stage, just a common woman riding a ride. 273 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: But but I mean this is kind of the first 274 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: AaTh leisure, right, because women were like they had to 275 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: wear more fitted, you know things. The blazer originated as sportswear, 276 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: especially for women, but you've got trend setters adopting these 277 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: outfits for everyday wear. So taking those bifurcated garments, taking 278 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: those more fitted blazers and tops with their button up 279 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: blouses and their little lady ties, and by nineteen o 280 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: five this was the common outfit for women. And one 281 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 1: person who embodies this whole aesthetic is a mid century 282 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: French novelist named George Sand who was born I'm on 283 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: Tine Lucille Aurora Dupine. Yeah, and and George Sand. You know, 284 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: she not only smoked in public and renamed herself George 285 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: well yeah, um, but she left her husband. She took 286 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: many a lover. But all this was fine, but she 287 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: wore pants that was part of her whole persona. It's 288 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: like that was almost too much for people. The lovers. Well, 289 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: all right, she's French pants come off anyway, but you 290 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: put a suit on there, and that's just that's crazy talk. Well, 291 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: women risked getting arrested if they wore pants in public 292 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: up until World War Two. Well, they risked offending people, 293 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: that's for sure. And this is another thing that Hollander 294 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: writes about. She says that this was a time, keep 295 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: in mind when sexual separateness was very intense, and by 296 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: virtue of the fact that stand wore these suits, she 297 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: became an erotic icon, not just because she put on 298 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: some pants and a blazer, but because wearing these fitted, 299 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: tailored clothes, it wasn't covering up her curves, it wasn't 300 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: disguising her in some baggy suit. Hollander writes that she 301 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: looked even more feminine in her tailored jacket and trousers. 302 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: She looked more sexy. Notably, Hollander rights she did not 303 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: cut her hair or disguise her full figure. It was 304 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: not drag with the aim of illusion. She showed herself 305 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: to be interested in a female erotic life. She was 306 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: a woman about town, someone who wanted to get up 307 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: and move and leave the house and take lovers and 308 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: smoke cigarettes. Um. And here she was embracing this modern 309 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: sexuality that was normally reserved for men. Well. And the 310 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: smoking cigarettes is definitely part of that too, because um, 311 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: that was something that was very deviant for women to do. Um. 312 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: And that's why you know, flappers and the new woman 313 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: of the nineteen twenties and thirties was somewhat liberated by smoking, 314 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: and especially smoking in public. We even talked about how 315 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: much is a freedom Georges of freedom, And we've also 316 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: talked about how there were classes you could take, like 317 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: if today imagine if you could take a webinar to 318 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: show you how to smoke a cigarette correctly in public. 319 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: There were classes women would take for that. I mean, 320 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: whatever gets people to spend more money. But you know, 321 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: we talk about sexual fluidity today, we talk about gender 322 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: norms and dynamics today, but this was a thing in 323 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: the back of people's minds in the nineteenth century, even 324 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: if they didn't have the language for it. Hollander writes 325 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: that quote sartorial borrowings from the other sex displayed an 326 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: awareness that sexuality is fluid, unaccountable, and even uncomfortable, not fixed, 327 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: simple and easy. And that's a dangerous concept in a 328 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: time when you've totally had separate spheres that men and 329 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: women were expected to adhere to. And it's still dangerous 330 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: in many places still today. Now, of course, this kind 331 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: of cross dressing was common on stage age for I mean, 332 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: since Shakespearean times. Um. But if we look at the 333 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: eighteen seventies, also in Paris, you have actress Sarah Bernhardt 334 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: who would gender bend on stage as Hamlet. In eighteen 335 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: ninety nine, she wore a custom made trouser suit that 336 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: she called her boy's clothes just so cute. That does 337 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: sound really cute and adorable. Um. And you know we 338 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: mentioned how that early athleisure became the trend of the 339 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: day by nineteen o five. Well, so let's look at 340 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: this whole suit explosion of the twentieth century. Uh. In 341 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: nineteen ten, the American Ladies Tailor's Association created what is 342 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: known as the Suffragettes suit. Did it look like Hillary 343 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: Clinton's white pant suit of the d N c um 344 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: and along with a blouse and jacket, it had an 345 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: ankle length, divided skirt bifurcated garment that allowed the wear 346 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: to take long feminist strides. Yes, you take up that 347 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: space on the sidewalk. A few years later, we have 348 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: Coco Chanel, of course, designing her first suit. But it's 349 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: not a pants suit. It's a fur trimmed jacket with 350 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: a matching long skirt. She wouldn't introduce her signature suit, 351 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: which is the knee link skirt and mole jacket, until 352 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: the early nineteen twenties. Yeah, what's funny about Chanel? So 353 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: we talked about her a lot in our color as 354 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: an episode and our Tanning episode. Um, because she accidentally 355 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: made tanning popular or helped popularize it. She also accidentally 356 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: made pants in general fashionable, even though she's making skirt suits. Um. 357 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: She was at the beach and for modesty's sake, rather 358 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 1: than changing into a bathing costume, she done some pants. Uh, 359 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: And everybody was like, that's great, I love it. I 360 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: love what you're doing. Baby, I want to do it too. 361 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: But later she was quoted as saying she was actually 362 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: sad to see so many women at dinners wearing pants. Oh, 363 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: come on, Cocoa, I know she's not. She's not quite 364 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: as progressive as we all would like to imagine. Not 365 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: buy any stretch. But then in N one you have 366 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: designer Marcel Rochas introducing the first wide shouldered suits with pants. 367 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: These were gray wool trousers for women. Um, and he 368 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: said that his inspiration was Balinese dancers costumes. So do 369 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: we have a little cultural appropriation happening? I think we do, 370 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: and I mean that echoes Paul French designer Paul Poiret, 371 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: who's sort of credited with freeing women from their corsets 372 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: with his tunic style outfits over Harem pants. So you've 373 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: got a lot of well in this case, I guess 374 00:24:55,119 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: to male French designers appropriating silhouette and designs from the East. Well, 375 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: and art historians can let us know whether this um 376 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: is probably a product of orientalism happening at the time, 377 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: an exoticism that you see in art and interior design 378 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: and also in things apparently like old school power suits. 379 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: I know, I know, and so following the trend. In 380 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, Italian designer Elsa Scaparelli designs a wool 381 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: pant suit with a brown woolf jacket that had four 382 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: large buttons down the front and a pair of single 383 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: plate cuffed slacks. Sounds very basic, but this stuff was 384 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: pretty cutting edge, pretty dangerous, and as you can imagine, 385 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: not everyone was very excited. Uh. That same year, in 386 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, the Vogue fashion editor Elizabeth Penrose spoke 387 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: out against women who would wear pants outside the workplace, 388 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: whether it was to your restaurant or even at home. 389 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: God forbids you wear comfortable pants at home, saying that 390 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: those women who quote pad around in hairy sweaters and 391 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 1: flannel bags on duty and off are letting themselves go 392 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: and other people down slackers in slacks. Damn Vogue Liz, 393 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: So judging what is Liz relax in? You know, just 394 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: just imagine her alone in her house, like looking around 395 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: to see if everyone's gone. No one can see her, 396 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: and she picks up a pair of stretchy pants, puts 397 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: them on the delight that would wash over her. She 398 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: just has a bundling sack that she puts on. So, 399 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: of course we have to talk about the silver screen 400 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: and Marlena Dietrich because she really helped popularize suits for 401 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: everyday women. Because this is when we start to see 402 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: the rise of celebrity and tabloid culture and the very 403 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: real relationship today between celebrity fashions and what regular James 404 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: are wearing. So in the nineteen thirties, old Marlena Who. 405 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: By the way, if you listen to our episode on 406 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: the fetishizing of East Asian women, Marlene Dietrich was buds 407 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: with the super cool anime Wong, google her if you're 408 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: not familiar with who she is. So Dietrich who was 409 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: just a progressive gall in general. She sports the tucks 410 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: and a top hat, looks lawless in it in both 411 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: the Film's Morocco and Blonde Venus. And she was also 412 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: a pioneer of pants suits as streetwear, because why not, 413 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: You're already a badass trailblazer, I mean, and hello, Katherine Hepburn, 414 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: I mean. On screen and off, she was all about 415 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: the pants. Uh. In nineteen forty two the film Woman 416 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: of the Year, she donned a fabulous pants suit to 417 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: play a powerful, UH and kind of single minded lady journalist. 418 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: And in nineteen forty nine It's Funny Picture Goer magazine 419 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: UH called her style kind of a smooth publicity move. 420 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: They said that that slack suit. People weren't calling them 421 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: pants suits yet because I think pants still refer to underwear. Um. 422 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: The slack suit paid for itself several times over. For 423 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: Katherine Hepburn got special mentioned in hundreds of different publications. 424 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: If she'd want to dress, her name would merely have 425 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: been listed among the fifty five other top stars, so like, yeah, 426 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: she's great, she's talented. She would have been talked about 427 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: no matter what. But those pants. So that was the 428 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine equivalent of Lady Gaga's meat dress, Like 429 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: she might have well just been wearing meat. Um. But 430 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: speaking of Katherine Hepburn's love of pants and how central 431 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: they really were to her life, they were not a 432 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: publicity stunt. Um. There is a great line in her 433 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: autobiography where she's talking about working with Dorothy Arsner, who 434 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: was the only female director in Hollywood for pretty much 435 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: all of the nineteen thirties, and she was a total 436 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: boss babe of pants and also just a total boss 437 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: babe in general. And really the only mentioned Hepburn makes 438 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: of her uh is that she met Arsner, who of 439 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: course was wearing pants, and she was like, yeah, she 440 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: wore pants. We got along well, and then that kind 441 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: of just summed it up, you know, Yeah, because pants 442 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: meant something different back then. They signified that, hey, you 443 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: and I are both going against the mainstream. It's like 444 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: spotting another lady on a crowded subway wearing a futurest 445 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: female sweatshirt. I was just going to you, that's exactly 446 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: what it's like. Yeah, And and you know, if we're 447 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: still talking about cinema um in the late fifties and 448 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: early sixties, you don't necessarily see as many pants suits 449 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: making waves, but you do see plenty of women in 450 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: power suits on screen, although they were definitely more skirt suits. 451 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 1: Costume designer Edith Head, who's massively famous and fashion history, 452 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: created a whole slew of sophisticated suits for Kim Novak 453 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: in Vertigo and Tippy Hedron and Birds. Um the suits 454 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: she created for Tippy Hedrin and Birds, it was the 455 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: same suit, but like six different versions, and each version 456 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: had more damage from the birds over the course of 457 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: the movie. Well, in that scene of watching her in 458 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: that form fitting like pencil skirt suit having to run 459 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: from the birds spoiler alert, Um, I mean it heightens 460 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: attention so much because you know her mobility is limited. Yeah, 461 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: she could have used to buy for kated garment. She 462 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: really could have. Yeah, I mean that was a power suit, 463 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: but it needed to be a little more powerful exact 464 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: to allow her to run. Um. And we're going to 465 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: get into the swinging sixties and power suits of second 466 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: wave feminism when we come right back from a quick break. So, 467 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: as we talk about in detail in our podcast all 468 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: about the long March toward women wearing pants, world War 469 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: One and two were really the tipping points. World War 470 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: One initially got us wearing pants, when like has happened 471 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: later on with World War Two, women stepped into filling 472 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: when the guys went off to war. But of course 473 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: once it ended, you take the pants off and put 474 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: the skirt back on. But then once this happens all 475 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: over again in World War Two, it really starts to stick, 476 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: probably thanks to celebral molls like Katherine Hepburn. Yeah, it's 477 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: kind of a perfect storm of pop culture and just 478 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: real life. Um. So, in the nineteen forties around World 479 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: War Two, you've got thirty seven percent of American women 480 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: now in the workforce, many many of those women filling 481 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: those masculine industrial roles, so they had to wear pants, 482 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: I mean for safety and efficiency, and those pants often 483 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: belong to their husbands who had gone off to wars. 484 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: They would you know, nip and tuck the pants at 485 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: the waist or whatever. Um. But at the same time, 486 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: separate from this industrial take on fashion and having to 487 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: go into the workplace in wear pants for safety, you 488 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: also have a whole other group of women who are 489 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: power dressing at the same time, and these are the Pachucas. 490 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: So in the nineteen thirties and forties um as many 491 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: people might not be aware of, there were anywhere from 492 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: half a million to two million people of Mexican descent 493 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: who were forcibly deported from the US. So anti Chicano, 494 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: anti Mexican sentiment is raging at the time, and you're 495 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of violence directed toward them, particularly in 496 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: California where you have higher populations they are. So within 497 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: this this leads to what are called the zoot suit 498 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: riots um because zoot suits, those big, kind of exaggerated 499 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: suits were worn by a lot of the guys in 500 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: these communities, a lot of Chicano guys, a lot of 501 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: Mexican dudes, and the zoot suits started to symbolize like 502 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: they're deviants. These they're just like troublemakers. We don't want 503 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: them around. And the Pachucas were the women that we 504 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: never hear about. There were the women who hung out 505 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: with their zoot suit guy friends, also wearing transgressive clothes, 506 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: particularly pants. Yeah. So I love this element of Chicana 507 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: history that I had not been aware of before. Um. 508 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: But these women, they would frequently be wearing those like superstructured, 509 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: big shouldered jackets as well that buttoned. Um. Sometimes they 510 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: would wear them over huge flowing pants. Sometimes they'd wear 511 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: them over skirts. But they totally freaked people out just 512 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: as much because they were defying gender roles and American 513 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: patriotic conformity around World War two. Um. And so white 514 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: Americans just like didn't know. I didn't note to think 515 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: about this group of people. Oh, but they slut shamed them. 516 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, they slut shamed them. Um. And there 517 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: was also a piece recently over at Broadly linking uh 518 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,439 Speaker 1: modern day the modern day Chola subculture to the Pachucas. 519 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: Um because the Pachucas also had sort of a rockabilly look. Yeah. Well, 520 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: I mean if you google, like literally, when you Google 521 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: Pachuca is the first thing that comes up. Is not 522 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 1: some fascinating history of this subculture. It's like Pachuca wear 523 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: dot com. You know, like you can buy the same 524 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: thing with like you know, modcloth has a lot of 525 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: those like forties and fifties style dresses. It's the same 526 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: kind of thing that that it fits in with the 527 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: rockabilly culture that's still alive and well very easily. Yeah. 528 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: So I mean, and this is one way in which 529 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: like fashion is really important. It does matter because especially 530 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: for women and for you know, gender nonconforming people, clothing 531 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: and in this case pants are a form of protest 532 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: and immediately move into not protest at all, going to 533 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:52,439 Speaker 1: formal dinners unless you enjoy class privileges. Yeah, very good point. Um. Yeah, 534 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: because if you're if you're wearing a certain outfit that 535 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: someone deems inappropriate, and you're a person of color or 536 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: someone of a lower class, you make it thrown out out. 537 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: But if you're a white lady, I mean we see 538 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: this with corn rows, afros, braids, hair color, piercings, tattoos, 539 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: the whole thing. Like, if you are a white lady, 540 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: you tend to be called like edgy cool at the 541 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: forefront of fashion. But if you're a person of color, 542 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: you're somehow trashy and inappropriate. And especially at this point 543 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 1: to getting into the nineteen sixties, when pants were still 544 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: kind of daring for the everyday woman to wear, even 545 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: if you were white, you still needed to be rich 546 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: in order to really pull it off. Yeah. So in 547 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,720 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, here comes another French designer, Andre Kurage, 548 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: introducing slim, minimalist pants suits for women for both day 549 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: and evening, where until then women had basically worn pants 550 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: for just informal things unless you're running a d trick 551 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: and you're wearing a tuxs and a top hat you Now, 552 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: isn't it interesting how we have up until this point really, 553 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: aside from Coco Chanel, mostly men as both the gate 554 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: keepers of our fashion but also to the sluedt shamers 555 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: of our fashion. That's how that works, Yeah, that's how 556 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: that works. We we want to see you looking a 557 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: certain way because that's how you're most attractive. But when 558 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: you look a certain way and you're attractive, then you're 559 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: going to be sledge shamed. Yeah, I know, it's a 560 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: it's a catch. Twenty two Snake eating itself type of situation. UM. 561 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: Two years later, in nineteen sixties six, Eve say Laun 562 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 1: debuted his infamous smoking suit, which is considered the first 563 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: texedo specifically made for women, and it consisted of, you know, 564 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: tax parts, a dinner jacket, trousers with a satin striped 565 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: down the side, a white shirt, black bet tie, and 566 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: a commer bun. Because you've got to you've got to 567 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: complete that look. And Marjorie Joual, who is a women's 568 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: study professor at Roosevelt University, told Vice that this was 569 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:10,280 Speaker 1: quote just top to bottom six. Yeah. And so therefore, 570 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 1: in nineteen six nine, you have New York City socialite 571 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: Nan Kimpner getting turned away from this fancy restaurant because 572 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: she was wearing smooking uh. And this is a killer move. 573 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: This is also coming from that Vice article. Um. They 574 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: write that after being denied service, Kimpner, rather than putting 575 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: up with being turned away because nobody turns away Nan Kimptner, 576 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: she just took her pants off, walked back in the 577 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: restaurant wearing her jacket as a mini dress. And she 578 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: was let in. Because that's for a white, rich socialite 579 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: New York City that is deemed Okay, that's deemed appropriate, 580 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: and the manager responded to this whole hubbub by saying 581 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: pants do not belong in a restaurant any more than 582 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: women suits. We will continue our policy, boss, move nan. 583 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if someone kicked you out 584 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: of a restaurant for wearing pants, my first thought was 585 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: not to be to take them off. I mean, I 586 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: would think it's spitefully. I'd be like, you know what, 587 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go home one of my stretchy pants 588 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 1: called uber It's it's been a day. That's been a day. 589 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,959 Speaker 1: But we also have to shout out. In nineteen sixty nine, 590 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: conservative Illinois Representative Charlotte t Reid who became the first 591 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: woman to wear pants on the floor of the U. 592 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: S House of Representatives, and boy did she get a 593 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,919 Speaker 1: lot of attention, specifically from the boys. The Washington Post 594 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: reported on this, of course, um and noted how male 595 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: members of Congress flocked to catch a glimpse of these 596 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: revolutionary pants, which are really more kind of like bill bottoms. 597 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: And thankfully, though uh, none of the politicians that the 598 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: Post interview it seemed too scandalized by this. But Representative 599 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: Read really played off the whole thing. She I don't think. 600 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: I think she's kind of flustered that it became news 601 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: because the only reason she wore them was since it 602 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: was the final day of the congressional session before Christmas break, 603 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: so kind of like how at least at my high 604 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: school everyone would wear pajamas on the last day of 605 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 1: the finals. So she was like, this is no big deal. 606 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: I'm really not trying to make waves here. And of 607 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: course you never wore this pants suit again, because, speaking 608 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 1: to the Washington Post, read said, I am really quite 609 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: serious about my service in Congress, and I wouldn't want 610 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: to do anything that seemed facetious I were following you, 611 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: but then neither would I want to do anything to 612 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: take away from the femininity of the women in the house, 613 00:40:52,680 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: even though I think pants are feminine looking. Come on, Charlotte. Uh. 614 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,879 Speaker 1: It was like it's funny. It's like the accidental trailblazer 615 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: being like whoa, no, no, no, no, I was just 616 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 1: I was just dressed down. I'm still I'm still a woman. 617 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: Every yeah, everybody was confused, like, oh god, where did 618 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,280 Speaker 1: your gender go? Well? And also, I mean, she's wearing 619 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: not even a blazer over this. It's like a double 620 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: breasted jacket that comes down mid thigh, so it's very conservative. Yeah. Um. 621 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: And again, I mean it's not like people were scandalized 622 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: that she was showing too much of her figure. Um, 623 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: but it was more of a gender norm violation. How 624 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 1: dare she indeed? Well, I mean, but you've also got 625 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,399 Speaker 1: to keep in mind the context of the times, right. 626 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: I mean, people who might not have otherwise thought it 627 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: was scandalous or gender bendy um, might have been observing 628 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: pop culture and social context and what's going on at 629 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,879 Speaker 1: the time, which is, hello, second wave feminism, and more 630 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: and more women are sport and pants because hello, they're 631 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: more comfortable. They let me ride a bicycle away from you, 632 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: and things like Title nine, passed in nineteen seventy two, 633 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: gives you more more. If say, your school does not 634 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: allow you to wear pants, you can be like no, no, no, no, no, 635 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 1: you gotta let me wear some pants. Yeah, Title nine. 636 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: Who do It's about more than sports, It's about pants. 637 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: It's about pants. Um. And you start in the seventies 638 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: seeing the office pants suit as we think of it now, 639 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: worn by these professional women who were entering these male 640 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 1: dominated spaces for example, a twenties six year old woman 641 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 1: by the name of Hillary Rodham who was photographed at 642 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: Nixon's nineteen seventy four impeachment hearing wearing a smart pants 643 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: suit and looking very capable. If I do say something myself, 644 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 1: and it's notable that you said that look capable in 645 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,240 Speaker 1: that pant suit, Caroline, because that's something that Sara toront 646 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: who's a professor and author of the book Fashion Talks 647 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: Undressing The Power of Style, echoed to Vice, basically saying 648 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 1: that like, at that time, if you wanted to be 649 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: taken seriously as a businesswoman or say as an up 650 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: and coming lawyer like Hillary Rodham, then you were expected 651 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: to wear a pant suit, but you were going to 652 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 1: be criticized for trying to emulate men because it was 653 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: so derivative of men's wear. So, I mean, this is 654 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: when we get into the whole issue that we still 655 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: have today in terms of how masculine is the professional normative. Yeah, 656 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's we're trending away from that, but 657 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: I mean they were the first ones in there, so 658 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 1: they've set how the professional language sounds, what professional looks like. 659 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,279 Speaker 1: But this makes me want to tear my hair out. 660 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: Her quote sums up so much that we're trying to 661 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: get out this episode, which is like, Yeah, you've got 662 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: to wear it to to look professional and like you belong, 663 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: but don't wear it because you look too much like 664 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,320 Speaker 1: a man and you're transgressing gender norms. They might respect 665 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: you as a business person, but not trust you as 666 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 1: a woman. Yeah, I don't know, but jumping onto this 667 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: criticism train. In nine seven, you've got John T. Malloy 668 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,280 Speaker 1: who writes in his book The Woman's Dress for Success 669 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,839 Speaker 1: Book that in most offices, the pants suit is a 670 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,280 Speaker 1: failure outfit. If you have to deal with men, even 671 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: as subordinates, you are putting on trouble. If you want 672 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: to be a liberated woman, burn your polyester pants suit, 673 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: not your bra. The polyester pants suit, he says, we'll 674 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: keep you in corporate surfdom. Well, your brock can help 675 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: you up as well as hold you up. What in 676 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,319 Speaker 1: the world, Oh yeah, oh yeah, I have seen this book. Um, 677 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: I actually have a copy of The Men's Dress for 678 00:44:55,239 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: Success Book on a coffee table at home. It is 679 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,879 Speaker 1: less sexist than the Woman's Dress for a Success book. 680 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: And really, all I have to say to John T. 681 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 1: Molloy is terrible advice to burn a polyosterrough suit because 682 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: those flames I gonna just get out of control, out 683 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: of control. Yeah. So his advice for women, um, if 684 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: you want to be taken seriously, Yeah, emulate men with 685 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 1: a tailored blue or gray wolf suit, but make sure 686 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: it's with a skirt that covers the knee. Do not 687 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: wear pants, you slutty slut bags. So maybe uh, taking 688 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:37,800 Speaker 1: a cue from John T. Molloy and realizing this catch 689 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: twenty two pants suit situation that women were facing trailblazing 690 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: into the workplace, particularly in the nineteen eighties, you see 691 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: the rise of kind of the working girl uniform of 692 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: still the skirt suit, but you're gonna have real broad 693 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:02,800 Speaker 1: the shoulder pads to uh, to symbolize and power. Yeah, 694 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,319 Speaker 1: one can be a bookshell funnel ones I keep your 695 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: snacks on the other. You got like power on top, 696 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: feminine on the bottom. That's right, kind of like a 697 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,320 Speaker 1: clothing mullet or something. Yeah, don't don't worry, my ankles 698 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,319 Speaker 1: are still here invisible, which would have gotten you slut 699 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 1: shamed in the Victorian era. Come on, for sure, there's 700 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: no winning. Um, so between nineteen eighty and nine seven, 701 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: driven by in particular, power suit purchases, because keep in mind, 702 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: shoulder pads had started to come into vogue back in 703 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: the late seventies, back when malloy was telling us to 704 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: create a freaking forest fire with our business suits. Sales 705 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,359 Speaker 1: of women's suits rose by nearly six million units, which 706 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,840 Speaker 1: equated to about a six hundred million dollar game for 707 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,320 Speaker 1: the fashion industry. So suddenly the fashion industry is like, 708 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: oh wait, we can we can convince women to wear 709 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: suits and make money because of it, because it's an 710 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: untapped resource. Marketing, get marketing on the phone, and I mean, 711 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 1: you've got more women going into the office. This, this 712 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 1: power seat trend just follows the women to the office 713 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,640 Speaker 1: because from nineteen eighty five, the share of women in 714 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: the workforce screw to nearly have and their share of 715 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:23,399 Speaker 1: management roles rose from twenty to thirty six. So you've 716 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,320 Speaker 1: got more women in the workplace, more women in charge. 717 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: It's a masculine dominated environment. You've got to look like 718 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,279 Speaker 1: men to succeed, apparently, which means a power suit and 719 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 1: a pussy bow blouse and just the right amount of 720 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,479 Speaker 1: teasing of the hair. Honestly, and maybe a kitten heel, 721 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 1: a tasteful kitten heel. And you also have fashion designers 722 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:50,520 Speaker 1: like our Money that are promoting this particular silhouette. So 723 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: you've got the broad shoulder pads, those oversized lapels, um, 724 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: which I would just fill up with flair, you know, 725 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:03,320 Speaker 1: all my feminist flare, uh, and women would wear sometimes 726 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,440 Speaker 1: yes Tho's pussy bow blouses with the you know, the 727 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: floppy bow on them, but also just lady ties um. 728 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:17,319 Speaker 1: And all of this creates this sharper silhouette that is 729 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: very masculine, sort of disguising the hour glass figure in 730 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 1: order to I mean, I mean it's really it's literal 731 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 1: power dressing. You're really trying to put on the authority 732 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,839 Speaker 1: that you want to project and really camouflaging any femininity 733 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 1: that could potentially sap your power, shaking our heads um. 734 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: And then in nineteen eight one, and that's when we 735 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:45,480 Speaker 1: get Grace Jones is nightclubbing that features her on the 736 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,799 Speaker 1: cover in this freaking suit cut down to hear, shoulders 737 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,520 Speaker 1: out to their and a cigarette hanging out of her mouth, 738 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 1: and again like such power dressing. And it's just in 739 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: the water because from eighty nine you've got the TV 740 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,080 Speaker 1: showed Dynasty, which features a lot of rich white women 741 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,239 Speaker 1: in a lot of big, old power suits, and they 742 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 1: even launched a suit line based on this show, and 743 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:15,160 Speaker 1: costumer Nolan Miller said that the style demonstrated the imposing 744 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: strength of an American woman. Quote when she walks down 745 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,400 Speaker 1: the hall, you may not know who she is, but 746 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 1: you know she's rich, and you know you better get 747 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: out of the way. What a different tune than the pachucas, right, yeah, 748 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:34,200 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, but these are white rich women we're 749 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: talking about. Um. But the Dynasty reference also reminded me 750 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: of designing women, where I mean, a all the women 751 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,120 Speaker 1: were typically in well there were a lot of pussy 752 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 1: bow blouses, um, a lot of big lapels and Julia 753 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 1: sugar Baker Yeah, I mean she was always wearing some 754 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 1: kind of suit, a lot of times with a skirt. 755 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:59,360 Speaker 1: But nonetheless it was that wide silhouette that yes, with 756 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,600 Speaker 1: the buttons. Let you know, Juliam in business, Yeah oh 757 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,840 Speaker 1: she did. Ah. There's nothing I love more than a 758 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,960 Speaker 1: Julius sugar Baker monologue. Um. But yeah, so this this 759 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 1: leads us up to the nineties. You've got you know, 760 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 1: in the wake of Grace Jones being such a trendsetter. 761 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:21,319 Speaker 1: You have Madonna sporting a huge shouldered pinstripe suit over 762 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,879 Speaker 1: lingerie for her Blonde Ambition tour. But then you've got 763 00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 1: Vogue again coming into the picture telling us that power 764 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:34,960 Speaker 1: dressing is over women. It's the nineties. You've been in 765 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,960 Speaker 1: the workplace for a minute now, so we've got casual 766 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:44,720 Speaker 1: fridays you can relax, and Niven Marcus stop selling suits 767 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:50,839 Speaker 1: and Donna Karen starts making softer corporate lady options. That still, 768 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,120 Speaker 1: regardless of the fact that it is no longer a 769 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:58,200 Speaker 1: broad shouldered suit, manages to telegraph money, money, money, money, 770 00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,440 Speaker 1: because you might be wearing pants, or you might be 771 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 1: wearing a pencil skirt, but your sweater or your top 772 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,799 Speaker 1: might be cashmere, the skirt might be leather or swede, 773 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,319 Speaker 1: you might be wearing reptile skin shoes. So even if 774 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:15,279 Speaker 1: you're not looking like Grace Jones, you're still like, look 775 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,480 Speaker 1: at how much money I have in my power dressing. 776 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:23,200 Speaker 1: So what's happening though, In the cultural background to all 777 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,239 Speaker 1: of this is also the conservative backlash to second wave 778 00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:32,000 Speaker 1: feminism and the rise of the moral majority. So I 779 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:36,759 Speaker 1: would imagine that part of that softening is an extension 780 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 1: of that oh yeah, because yeah, the political and the 781 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 1: personal constantly intertwined and reflecting each other. You know, Philish 782 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:48,360 Speaker 1: Laughley didn't want women wearing power suits. God no. So 783 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:55,360 Speaker 1: someone who is white cooler than Philish Laughley was is 784 00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 1: Barbara mcculski. First of all, she knew she was a novelty. 785 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,719 Speaker 1: Mccolesey was the first Democratic woman elected to Senate in 786 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,160 Speaker 1: her own right, meaning that she wasn't taking over a 787 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,560 Speaker 1: husband's seat if he passed away. And she also recognized 788 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,880 Speaker 1: that what women wore was a big deal. I mean, 789 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:20,560 Speaker 1: how could she not as a politician. But in ninety three, 790 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,920 Speaker 1: she's in d C. It is cold, a winter storm 791 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,440 Speaker 1: is on its way, and she doesn't want to be 792 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,240 Speaker 1: freezing and uncomfortable in a meeting she has to attend. 793 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:37,560 Speaker 1: But women aren't allowed to wear pants in Congress. Yeah, 794 00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:42,000 Speaker 1: so she helps develop this amazing plan, this pant plot, 795 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,200 Speaker 1: uh to, along with a fellow senator and female staffers. 796 00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 1: She gets them all together and she's like, ladies were 797 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,279 Speaker 1: wearing pants, And it's kind of the same mentality of 798 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,600 Speaker 1: like the day before Christmas thing, because it's like it's 799 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,000 Speaker 1: a storm. It's towards the end of the session. But 800 00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,080 Speaker 1: she's like, we can't. How can you expect us to 801 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,719 Speaker 1: wear skirts and heels out in this mess? And so 802 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 1: she develops this plot, but she has to alert hyper 803 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 1: traditional Senator Robert Bird to her plan. The Senate Parliamentarian 804 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,840 Speaker 1: has to check the rules to make sure it's okay, 805 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,960 Speaker 1: and Bird, once he's alerted to the fact that these 806 00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,400 Speaker 1: women folk are gonna trapes in wearing pants, he doesn't 807 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,560 Speaker 1: even dignify their plan with like a oh gosh. He 808 00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,600 Speaker 1: just nods that, like, all right, let the women in. 809 00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:38,440 Speaker 1: And so mcculsky said, the day I walked on the 810 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,239 Speaker 1: Senate floor in slacks, I became the first woman ever 811 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,520 Speaker 1: to do so. You would have thought that I was 812 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,879 Speaker 1: walking on the moon. Well, in what a different tone 813 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:54,279 Speaker 1: she has than representative read exactly sixty nine. Yeah, she 814 00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,719 Speaker 1: plans to do this. She knew what she was doing. 815 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,040 Speaker 1: She was like, this is ridiculous, this winter store and 816 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,440 Speaker 1: seems like it was the last, you know, straw that 817 00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,080 Speaker 1: broke the camel's back of Like, guys, this is insane. 818 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,200 Speaker 1: We should be able to wear pants. Why does it 819 00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: take things like natural disasters for for women to just 820 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,920 Speaker 1: be allowed to wear pants. Well, maybe she was inspired 821 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:22,000 Speaker 1: by Dana Scully. Oh do tell that's my favorite transition 822 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:26,040 Speaker 1: of this podcast ever. Well and ne the X Files 823 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:31,919 Speaker 1: debuts and nerd girls everywhere back then right now, I'm 824 00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:37,680 Speaker 1: gritting because I agree worshiped at the altar of Dana Scully. 825 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,080 Speaker 1: And of course that's not to ignore obvious other business 826 00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,160 Speaker 1: fashion pioneers like Murphy Brown, Ali mcbel and Samantha Jones. 827 00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,640 Speaker 1: But come on, Scully, like, it's amazing to go back 828 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,280 Speaker 1: and watch this fashion time capsule. Scully at the beginning 829 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:57,640 Speaker 1: of the show is wearing these crazy, these crazy suits, 830 00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:02,640 Speaker 1: these huge like talking heads blazers, but they're like plaid 831 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,680 Speaker 1: and they're all different colors. She's got like a double 832 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,719 Speaker 1: breasted giant lapelle powder blue one that she wears at 833 00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,040 Speaker 1: one point, and over the course of the show it 834 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,640 Speaker 1: evolves into the slimmer cut, more traditional like you clearly 835 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,880 Speaker 1: went to j CRWE or Banana Republic or something and 836 00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: bought a trim suit. Um, and that's where it basically stayed. 837 00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:28,560 Speaker 1: Dana Scully wearing the you know, the FBI issue black 838 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:32,400 Speaker 1: suit with a white button up shirt and the whole 839 00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,399 Speaker 1: John T. Malloy of the women Dress for Success book, 840 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,759 Speaker 1: was none to please about all of these women on 841 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:45,480 Speaker 1: on the television wearing their suits and having babies out 842 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:52,759 Speaker 1: of wedlock. So he releases a new version of his book, uh, 843 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,960 Speaker 1: really dragging women's pants suits. He said, we're pants only 844 00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:58,719 Speaker 1: if you need them to look like a member of 845 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,800 Speaker 1: the team or to perform warm tasks that require them. 846 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,759 Speaker 1: But he did admit that the suit quote made a 847 00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:10,080 Speaker 1: resurgence when Hillary Clinton became quote the first professional career 848 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:15,000 Speaker 1: woman to become the first lady, which I'm confused by 849 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,640 Speaker 1: because it seems like the only fashion press Hillary received 850 00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,799 Speaker 1: was more in the vein of what not to wear, right, Yeah, 851 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,600 Speaker 1: That's why I was really surprised that he was like, yeah, well, okay. 852 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,400 Speaker 1: Maybe he just was looking at that as justification of 853 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,840 Speaker 1: why more women we're donning's suits. I'm not sure. And 854 00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,880 Speaker 1: maybe again he doesn't know what he's talking about because 855 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,120 Speaker 1: he's trying to step polyester suit fires all over the place. 856 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:43,160 Speaker 1: He doesn't understand science, he really doesn't. But he does name, 857 00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:48,520 Speaker 1: supposedly what the five suitable suits for women are, which 858 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,480 Speaker 1: I just have a lot of fun because he calls 859 00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:54,640 Speaker 1: them everything from the traditional skirted which imitates you know, 860 00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,640 Speaker 1: men's colors and styles, but you know that jacket it 861 00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,480 Speaker 1: might not have lapel's if you get crazy. The aggressive 862 00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,400 Speaker 1: feminine suit. These are not my words, these are his words. 863 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:08,000 Speaker 1: The aggressive feminine suit, which comes in strong colors like red, 864 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,600 Speaker 1: or bold patterns like I don't know, maybe a hound's 865 00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:15,360 Speaker 1: tooth um. The stylish professional, so your jacket is designed 866 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,880 Speaker 1: to be worn without a blouse, so like it's one 867 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,680 Speaker 1: big button up fancy jacket instead of a blouse. The 868 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,400 Speaker 1: soft feminine suit, which is a pastel, maybe it has 869 00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:30,760 Speaker 1: some lacy details. And there's the conservative feminine, which has 870 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,840 Speaker 1: a more conservative cut and color up. But that being said, 871 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,240 Speaker 1: the color is still one that would only be found 872 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,760 Speaker 1: on a woman suit, perhaps a dark plum or some 873 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,360 Speaker 1: type of mahogany, and it just telegraphs that message of 874 00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:48,160 Speaker 1: I am both powerful and feminine in my plum. I'm 875 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:52,919 Speaker 1: trying to categorize from this the first suit I ever 876 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:58,960 Speaker 1: bought myself, which did come from the reputable clothier target, 877 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,160 Speaker 1: and it was a skirt suit. I'm going to say 878 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:09,120 Speaker 1: it was more of a traditional skirted suit. It wasn't 879 00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,480 Speaker 1: stylish professional, because certainly the jacket was not designed to 880 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:17,760 Speaker 1: be warm without a blouse. Um, but it was dark 881 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:23,160 Speaker 1: gray with subtle pin stripes and a pencil skirt and 882 00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:27,320 Speaker 1: I bought it for interviewing for internships and things like that, 883 00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,880 Speaker 1: and I loved wearing it. I mean, you know, target 884 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 1: darking against all like some good clothes, and especially at 885 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:35,720 Speaker 1: the time in college, I was like this, this is 886 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,040 Speaker 1: quite a splurge and um, and I liked it, but 887 00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:45,200 Speaker 1: certainly never thought about all of this, all of the 888 00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,000 Speaker 1: politics that were in my in my very cheap suit. 889 00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:50,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, I Um. When I graduated college, my 890 00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,480 Speaker 1: mother took me to J Crew and bought me two suits, 891 00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:57,520 Speaker 1: which was not cheap. One was solid black, but the 892 00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,720 Speaker 1: pants and the skirt one was like it had that 893 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:05,600 Speaker 1: tone on town black pin stripe pants and skirt. And 894 00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:10,080 Speaker 1: I just remember like evolving past the need to wear 895 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,160 Speaker 1: them and was so grateful because like, yeah, I mean 896 00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,280 Speaker 1: you can feel powerful in a power suit, for sure, 897 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,080 Speaker 1: but that not a my style. Yeah, I'm more of 898 00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,080 Speaker 1: like if I've got a dress for work, I'm much 899 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,560 Speaker 1: more of just like the slacks and whatever top typically 900 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,280 Speaker 1: a card again, but I'm even past that, and I 901 00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,360 Speaker 1: basically wear a T shirt and jeans every day. Now 902 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,720 Speaker 1: Caroline just comes in in a sports bra and literally 903 00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:39,560 Speaker 1: nothing else. Now, I do enjoy a good blazer. If 904 00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:41,800 Speaker 1: I've got something where I need to step it up 905 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,840 Speaker 1: a little bit, you know what makes me feel like 906 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 1: it makes me feel a little more put together. It 907 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:51,640 Speaker 1: does tie the outfit together. But apparently I'm kind of 908 00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,360 Speaker 1: behind the times, or maybe we've circled back around to it, 909 00:59:54,440 --> 01:00:00,680 Speaker 1: because in the Wall Street Journal declared the power suit dead. Yeah, 910 01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,920 Speaker 1: I mean again, I just and they're like, oh again, 911 01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,680 Speaker 1: you don't have to wear the power suit. Um, you 912 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,000 Speaker 1: can embrace your feminine elements of of you know whatever. 913 01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,640 Speaker 1: We don't have to be militant in our office apparel anymore. 914 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:19,400 Speaker 1: Are feminine. It's feminine elements euphemism for vagina. Quitch showing 915 01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:25,600 Speaker 1: your vagina around the office. Everyone can see your feminine elements. Um. 916 01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,920 Speaker 1: But then, you know, just to show you how ridiculous 917 01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:31,880 Speaker 1: A lot of this conversation is around like fashion magazines 918 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,680 Speaker 1: and what's in and what's out. Just three years later, 919 01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:39,400 Speaker 1: in Vogue checks out the suit that Rihanna word of 920 01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,520 Speaker 1: the Grammys, and it's like, oh my god, the power 921 01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,400 Speaker 1: pants suit is back. Y'all, and it's like, guys, can 922 01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,080 Speaker 1: we just accept that people are going to wear whatever 923 01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:50,720 Speaker 1: they want to wear and it doesn't have to be 924 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,880 Speaker 1: in or out. But then I guess there wouldn't be 925 01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,200 Speaker 1: a fashion industry to make money off of well, and 926 01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:59,240 Speaker 1: I got to say, I am looking at Rihanna's Grammy 927 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,400 Speaker 1: suit right now, and of course she looks flawless, because 928 01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:10,760 Speaker 1: she always does, but it's not necessarily groundbreaking. It's a 929 01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:15,320 Speaker 1: double breasted suit with what looks like a satin sheen lapel. 930 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:20,000 Speaker 1: It's not terribly well fitting, and it's just a solid, 931 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:25,280 Speaker 1: like really dark blue black. But one of the writers 932 01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,160 Speaker 1: that we were reading talking about this Rhianna suit that 933 01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:31,120 Speaker 1: brought power dressing back. I guess I have no idea 934 01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:37,600 Speaker 1: what she wrote harkens back to Ann Hollander's piece about 935 01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:43,800 Speaker 1: the suit is sex. You know, the suit is gender swapping. 936 01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,800 Speaker 1: Sex swapping. It's borrowing something. Maybe you picked it up 937 01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,320 Speaker 1: off your lover's floor and threw it on to go 938 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:54,280 Speaker 1: to the Grammys. It's just suggestive of, um, you know, 939 01:01:54,480 --> 01:02:00,240 Speaker 1: I'm transgressing something well, and this is the first time 940 01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: we're seeing a woman of color bringing the suit potentially 941 01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,720 Speaker 1: into vote yeah, and I mean and and exactly, speaking 942 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,280 Speaker 1: of women of color, it's it's incredible to watch the 943 01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:18,880 Speaker 1: fashion conversation evolve alongside more inclusive conversations, you know, talking 944 01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,640 Speaker 1: about queer women and particularly queer one women of color. 945 01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,320 Speaker 1: There was a great interview in The New York Times 946 01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:28,320 Speaker 1: with fashion bloggers Daniel Cooper and Sarah Geffrard of She's 947 01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:32,560 Speaker 1: a Gent and a Dapper Chick, who both appreciate a masculine, 948 01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,280 Speaker 1: well tailored women's wear suit. They were like, we're here, 949 01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,120 Speaker 1: we're queer, we love suits. We don't need to be men. 950 01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,680 Speaker 1: We just want to wear what fits and feels good 951 01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:45,600 Speaker 1: to us. And I mean, that's what so much of 952 01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,960 Speaker 1: this fashion conversation has been. Yeah, it's about transgressing norms 953 01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:52,720 Speaker 1: and boundaries and being a trailblazer. But for a lot 954 01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:56,240 Speaker 1: of women, it's like, this is what I feel like 955 01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:00,640 Speaker 1: myself in and uh, Cooper and Geffrard both talked about 956 01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:04,200 Speaker 1: how wearing a well fitting suit, especially as a queer 957 01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,840 Speaker 1: woman of color, can be empowering, um honestly, regardless of 958 01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,720 Speaker 1: your sexual orientation. Geffer had said that when I wear 959 01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:12,920 Speaker 1: a suit, I feel like I can do things I 960 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,680 Speaker 1: would not otherwise do. I'm a very shy person, but 961 01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,000 Speaker 1: if I'm in a suit, I feel very confident. I 962 01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,680 Speaker 1: feel like I can talk to whoever. Otherwise I would 963 01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:24,960 Speaker 1: walk in and feel sort of small. And she pointed 964 01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:31,000 Speaker 1: out that switching from bagyar clothes to a well fitting 965 01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,400 Speaker 1: suit ended up freeing her from a lot of racist 966 01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,600 Speaker 1: stereotyping that she experienced when she'd walk into a store. 967 01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,680 Speaker 1: She said, I used to wear more of that urban streetwear, 968 01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,680 Speaker 1: and I would get certain looks that I didn't really like. 969 01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,080 Speaker 1: I would go into a store and someone would follow me. 970 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,680 Speaker 1: When I started dressing the way I do. Now, I 971 01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:50,960 Speaker 1: don't get that anymore. So there's still a lot of 972 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:56,120 Speaker 1: class happening in our suits, understandably because suits are expensive. 973 01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:01,120 Speaker 1: Um Cooper from She's a Gent says, we're in an 974 01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:04,240 Speaker 1: era when men and women were everything. It doesn't really 975 01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:06,080 Speaker 1: matter if you're gear straight, and for us, it's really 976 01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,440 Speaker 1: about showing young women that they can wear whatever they want. 977 01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,720 Speaker 1: And this reminds me that in the past couple of years, 978 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:20,120 Speaker 1: I've seen so many startups focusing on bespoke suits for women. 979 01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:24,120 Speaker 1: Whether we're talking about more of just a standard woman 980 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,840 Speaker 1: going to the workplace who wants a decent suit and 981 01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,480 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily want to buy something from J Crew all 982 01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:35,120 Speaker 1: the way to a lot of gender queer people, who 983 01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:40,440 Speaker 1: are you know, really making a space in this side 984 01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:44,440 Speaker 1: of the fashion industry. Yeah, so, I mean, who knew 985 01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:49,400 Speaker 1: the politics all of this stuff wrapped up in a suit? Answer? 986 01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:57,400 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton? Yeah, bringing up full circle. For sure knows 987 01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,240 Speaker 1: she's got to know. I mean, every time she puts 988 01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:04,320 Speaker 1: on an outfit that she's she's telegraphing some message to someone. 989 01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:08,440 Speaker 1: People are gonna, you know, say anything that they can 990 01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,320 Speaker 1: about the color, the cut, whatever it is about her clothes. 991 01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:17,400 Speaker 1: Oh and at the one of the Democratic debates when 992 01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:24,040 Speaker 1: she wore that golden Mandarin Collard love top. You loved it, 993 01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:26,440 Speaker 1: but god, people wouldn't stop talking about it. Well, people 994 01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,440 Speaker 1: are ridiculous. People are ridiculous. But then again, I was 995 01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:34,200 Speaker 1: live tweeting about Michelle Obama's fabulous tangerine dress at the 996 01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,960 Speaker 1: State of the Union address, So perhaps I'm part of 997 01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:43,480 Speaker 1: the problem. Well, but there's a difference between I appreciate 998 01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:47,040 Speaker 1: what someone's wearing and I'm not going to listen to 999 01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,120 Speaker 1: what this person is saying because I can't stand but 1000 01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:54,080 Speaker 1: she's wearing exactly. Yeah. So now we want to stop 1001 01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,920 Speaker 1: talking and listen to you, dear listeners. What do you 1002 01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:01,320 Speaker 1: think about the politics of the pants sue? Let us 1003 01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,040 Speaker 1: know your thoughts mom Stuff at how stuff works dot 1004 01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:08,959 Speaker 1: com and for fellows listening, do you ever feel sort 1005 01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:13,200 Speaker 1: of um chained to the pants suit where you would 1006 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:17,800 Speaker 1: appreciate being able to wear um softer styles, but you 1007 01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:19,680 Speaker 1: feel like it's more of a requirement that you have 1008 01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:24,080 Speaker 1: to put on this standard uniform of sorts. We want 1009 01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,400 Speaker 1: to know what all we all think. Mom Stuff at 1010 01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,720 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot Com. Again is our email address. 1011 01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,840 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or 1012 01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,840 Speaker 1: messages on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages 1013 01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:43,840 Speaker 1: to share with you right now. All right. I have 1014 01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,120 Speaker 1: a letter here from Aldo in response to our janitors episode, 1015 01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,280 Speaker 1: and Aldo says, thank you for covering the topic about janitors. 1016 01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:53,760 Speaker 1: My mother and I are both janitors in the Los 1017 01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,800 Speaker 1: Angeles area. She cleans the offices while I clean the 1018 01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,960 Speaker 1: bathrooms in another building. As a child, I would attend 1019 01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:03,240 Speaker 1: union meetings and protest with my mother. Now, as an 1020 01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:05,640 Speaker 1: adult working as a part time janitor, I'm able to 1021 01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:08,360 Speaker 1: experience the hard work my mother encounters for the past 1022 01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:12,280 Speaker 1: twenties something years. I appreciate the hard work she's done 1023 01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:15,040 Speaker 1: for my family. I'd like to break the stereotype of 1024 01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:19,360 Speaker 1: the uneducated janitor. I and many janitors I know, attend 1025 01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:21,760 Speaker 1: school in the morning and work at night. I received 1026 01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,760 Speaker 1: my Associates of Arts degree in sociology, and I'm currently 1027 01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,120 Speaker 1: a junior at a four year university working on my 1028 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,960 Speaker 1: b a in Child and adolescent development. I also intern 1029 01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:35,160 Speaker 1: for a nonprofit organization educating children in low income neighborhoods 1030 01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,280 Speaker 1: and how to be better readers. Thank you for shedding 1031 01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,080 Speaker 1: light on our jobs. Now excuse me, I need to 1032 01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:46,720 Speaker 1: go back and sparkle up them floors. Although I love 1033 01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:48,640 Speaker 1: the letter, thank you so much, and I love that 1034 01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,080 Speaker 1: you and your mom share this life experience and that 1035 01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:54,080 Speaker 1: she brought you to union meeting. So thanks for writing 1036 01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,720 Speaker 1: in Brad Mom Alert. So I have a letter here 1037 01:07:56,840 --> 01:08:00,960 Speaker 1: from Alex, also prompted by our Justice for jannah nevarious episode, 1038 01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:05,640 Speaker 1: and Alex writes in summer, my office team went on 1039 01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,960 Speaker 1: a summer outing that included a picnic. My supervisor, who 1040 01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:11,280 Speaker 1: brought her cooler and some supplies, asked me to help 1041 01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,600 Speaker 1: her bring them up to her apartment when we got back, 1042 01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,360 Speaker 1: because she lived on a narrow street in Greenwich Village 1043 01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:18,320 Speaker 1: where the car wouldn't really stop and we had to 1044 01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,720 Speaker 1: get everything up in one trip. When we got to 1045 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,280 Speaker 1: her apartment, she let me in and said that I 1046 01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:27,080 Speaker 1: could put the stuff down anywhere. There were two Latina 1047 01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,000 Speaker 1: women in there, both in their fifties. One was cleaning 1048 01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:31,760 Speaker 1: the kitchen and the other was sitting in the living 1049 01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:35,080 Speaker 1: room going through a large stack of papers. Both were 1050 01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,519 Speaker 1: wearing total scrub out clothes tank tops, old T shirts, shorts, 1051 01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,800 Speaker 1: et cetera. I put the containers down and the woman 1052 01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,920 Speaker 1: in the chair said, you must be Alex. I've heard 1053 01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,439 Speaker 1: such nice things about you. I was confused because I 1054 01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:52,120 Speaker 1: had no idea who this woman was. I assumed she 1055 01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,960 Speaker 1: was a cleaning lady, presumably because someone else was also 1056 01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,360 Speaker 1: their cleaning, and because she was dressed like I am 1057 01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,400 Speaker 1: when I in my apartment. The fact that she was 1058 01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:06,960 Speaker 1: older and Latina also didn't help uncloud my unconscious bias either. 1059 01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,240 Speaker 1: As I was reaching out to shake her hand, it 1060 01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:14,680 Speaker 1: hit me why my boss is cleaning lady had privileged 1061 01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:18,080 Speaker 1: knowledge about how great I am. She was in fact 1062 01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:23,679 Speaker 1: not a maid but Supreme Court Justice Sonia Soto Mayor 1063 01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:31,040 Speaker 1: Caroline is cringing. I know this, like letters, just stunning. 1064 01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:36,280 Speaker 1: Sonya Soto Mayor, who owned the apartment. She and my 1065 01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,679 Speaker 1: boss have been friends for decades, and my boss decided 1066 01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:40,880 Speaker 1: as she wanted to relocate from l A to New York, 1067 01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,320 Speaker 1: Sonia graciously let her move in with her because she'd 1068 01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:46,559 Speaker 1: been in d C most of the time. Anyway, I 1069 01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,400 Speaker 1: knew all of this already, but just didn't put five 1070 01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:53,719 Speaker 1: and four together quickly enough. Maybe I assumed she wore 1071 01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,599 Speaker 1: the black robe seven. Who knows. I still feel bad 1072 01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,960 Speaker 1: for automatically thinking that an older Puerto Rican woman must 1073 01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,640 Speaker 1: have been quote unquote the help. But I'm happy I 1074 01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:06,240 Speaker 1: was able to catch myself of for saying something stupid 1075 01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,599 Speaker 1: in front of one of the people who would later 1076 01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:12,560 Speaker 1: go on to vote for my equal right to marriage. Anyway, 1077 01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:14,839 Speaker 1: that's my story about how I almost made a horrible 1078 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:16,760 Speaker 1: gaff in front of one of the most powerful women 1079 01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,760 Speaker 1: in the country. I've been listening to Smendi since maybe 1080 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:21,920 Speaker 1: two thousand nine and ten, and I still love it. 1081 01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:24,479 Speaker 1: I like to save a few episodes and then take 1082 01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:26,280 Speaker 1: a long walk and listen to them and it's like 1083 01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm just hanging out with my pals, and Alex says, ps. 1084 01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,280 Speaker 1: The other woman there was also not a maid, but 1085 01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,360 Speaker 1: another one of their friends who was just hanging out. 1086 01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:36,720 Speaker 1: I'd love to have any of my friends hang out 1087 01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,479 Speaker 1: and clean my kitchen, but that's neither here nor there. 1088 01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:46,280 Speaker 1: WHOA right? Yeah, oh wow? What an amazing way to 1089 01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:50,879 Speaker 1: outroot your inherent biases? Right have it be? It's supreme 1090 01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:55,719 Speaker 1: queer justice. Oh my god. Also, there is a terrific 1091 01:10:55,760 --> 01:11:01,160 Speaker 1: conversation with Justice Soto Mayor on Athex and Money that 1092 01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,680 Speaker 1: you should listen to if you haven't. Also, that's just 1093 01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,840 Speaker 1: a fabulous podcast, so tune in. And also, folks, if 1094 01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,280 Speaker 1: you have letters to send our way mom, stuff at 1095 01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,400 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com is where you can send 1096 01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:15,439 Speaker 1: them and thrill links to all of our social media 1097 01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:17,800 Speaker 1: as well as all of our blogs, videos and podcasts 1098 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:21,960 Speaker 1: with our sources so you can learn even more about 1099 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,280 Speaker 1: power suits. Head over to stuff Mom Never Told You 1100 01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:32,120 Speaker 1: dot com or more on this and thousands of other topics. 1101 01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:41,439 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works dot com